Are You A Charlotte? - Sex Therapist Dr. Viviana Coles explains if Carrie really can have sex like a man and what women actually need to learn from men about sex... (S4 E4 "What's Sex Got to Do With It?")

Episode Date: April 6, 2026

Who better than to really deep dive and analyze “What’s Sex Got to Do With It” then Sex Therapist Dr. Viviana Coles? From Charlotte and Trey’s frustrating silence around intimacy to the bold claim that maybe she shouldn’t go back at all, the conversation digs into what really happens when sex becomes the unspoken problem in a relationship.Plus, Carrie and Ray’s no-strings chemistry sparks a bigger debate: are women overcomplicating desire while men simply lean into it? See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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the recent uptick in F1 romance novels, and plenty of mishap scandals and sagas that have made Formula One a delightful, decadent dumpster fire for more than 75 years. Listen to No Grip on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, and I want to know, Are You a Charlotte? Hi, everyone. Welcome to Are You a Charlotte. Today we have a super fun and interesting guest. Her name is Dr. Viviana Coles. She is a licensed marriage and family therapist and a certified sex therapist. With 20 years of experience, she is lovely and super smart. The main reason that I wanted her on was to talk about the whole Trey and Charlotte storyline. And she has a lot of interesting things to say about it. And then

also we're going to talk about episode 404, what sex got to do with it, which is directed by the wonderful Ellen Coulter and written by Nicole Averill. So please join us for both episodes this week. It's really interesting. Okay. Hi, Kristen. Nice to meet you. Hi.

Thank you for joining us. Can I call you Dr. Viviana? Of course. That would be great. Thank you. You gave me the best reason to run it back with the seasons and they're so good. I was just finishing up another episode. I just, it's so fun.

Thank you. Thanks for having me. It's my pleasure. I mean, it's funny because, you know, obviously this was a long time ago that we filmed this, but the episodes really hold up. So it's very interesting for me to be rewatching them myself. And a lot of the times we'll just say here to ourselves when we're watching, especially this whole Trey Charlotte storyline, like, I'm trying to think to myself, like, did we talk to sex therapists at the time? Like, what, how, what were we thinking? But also, we were in the middle of, filming, right? And we were just kind of going with the scripts as they were given to us, right? But it does really make me think of so many, so many questions I have, you know, for a sex therapist about how to handle the things that we go through in the show. And so I'm so happy for you to be here. I'm really happy to be here. And the other thing that I noticed is that I'm like, oh my gosh, I was not a sex therapist

at the time that these came out. So looking back and like being a couple therapist and a sex therapist, I'm like just, it's a new light. So thanks for, thanks for doing this podcast because a lot of us are probably rewatching and thinking, oh, the gems and the one-liners. Thank you. Thank you. It's too late for a hanky. I know, I know.

It's true. Our writers are just so good. And they really, like, there were so many things. And I need to ask them again about, because for me, the whole tray storyline, I knew what Charlotte wanted. I knew how much she, you know, loved Trey. I had forgotten about the different elements of the difficulty. I remember the big difficulty, but I didn't remember like the kind of issues and how, you know, she tried this way with the drugs magazine. She tried to get him into therapy. It didn't work. You know, but also I also feel and I'm wondering how you feel.

I mean, I've never personally been in this situation, but I can only imagine how hard. it would be to try to get a man to talk about it. It just seems like Trey is not that open, which is Trey is absolutely not that open. And I actually, my heart broke this, you know, this like second, third time of watching these around. It felt like she was alone. She was alone in dealing with it, in talking about it and thinking about it. And at first, when she had only told Carrie, she was really alone because she was so ashamed. But everything that she tried, everything that they tried, I felt like is very relevant. And people still do that. And even some aspects of what their therapist brought up, I think are still very useful in our field.

So yeah, I'm excited to dive in and ready to go. Okay, okay. So let's just go for a second backwards in time to win, as you brought up, that she just tells Carrie in the beginning. So Charlotte has her, you know, extremely romanticized ideals of what she would like, right? And we know because she tells the girls, you know, I decided to wait and not have sex with him because I thought this was a different way to go. Right, right. which, I mean, first of all, what do you make of that? Okay.

I would not recommend doing that. I think for so many people, if they're putting it, if they're, first of all, if they're putting sex on a pedestal, that in and of itself creates a dynamic that can cause a lot of pressure and anxiety and just mystery, but not the good kind with sex. And so when she said that, and this is, you know, the day before she gets married, they're just appalled. I was appalled to because intimacy, both physical and emotional, that's the whole reason that you fall in love with someone to begin with is to have those things in very full parts. And for a whole half of that to be missing, yes, she said he's a great kisser.

Yeah, and making out is awesome. And I love that. But it doesn't, I mean, your whole body being into the physical act and the physical intimacy and how it responds, that mind-body connection is not something that I think anybody should have a big question mark when it comes to their partnership. And then when she shares right before she's walking down the aisle that it didn't work and he wasn't able to keep his erection, I felt so bad because the stakes are so high and Carrie's just like, oh my gosh, what are you doing to me? No, I also feel, I mean, when I think back on it, like, and of course, you know, you're in it, you're reading the script.

You're trying to do your best you can do with the script. But it's so interesting to think through what that would actually be like. I'm so different from Charlotte in this fundamental way, where I cannot ever imagine doing this in any way, shape, or form, right? And I'm, I'm, it, it seems insane to me. You mean, you mean, not waiting, all of it. I thought you meant going through with the marriage. No, no, no. Like faking head or...

I'm not very much focused on marriage, but, but I mean, I do think that once Charlotte wants something, she's really going to pursue it. Yeah. And I think it's also so interesting what... Because it's also, she's not incredibly mature herself

about talking about feelings and things, right? Like, she's, she has a lot of feelings and I feel like she can emotionally express herself. But there's like a lens. There's this lens and this filings. that is very hopeless romantic and is fairy taleish, you know. And I think waiting until marriage, whether it's a religious thing or not, is a bit of like, let's kick the can down the road.

We'll deal with that later. And a lot of women and men think, well, everything will work out when your chemistry is there or when the respect is there and the love is there, the consent is there. Everything's going to work out perfectly. and I have a practice that is predominantly full with people who have all of the best intentions who can really emotionally connect and physically things are not going well for them. Awful. Oh my gosh. So let's just, I'm just so curious now. Okay. So what if you had a couple? Obviously, we're not going to talk about any of your actual patients, obviously, because you are a professional.

So let's say you had a couple like Charlotte and Trey where there are all of these other wonderful qualities. right? And they do seem to really fit together and they do want the same things. And they're kind of aligned in terms of their families, you know, in some ways and whatnot and whatnot. It's hard to go too deep because in some ways they're not aligned. But let's pretend at the beginning that they think they are. Right. And then there is some kind of a miss miss in terms of the physical life. There's a snag. Yeah. What would you recommend? Like what would you have that couple do? Well, so for a lot of the couples that I do work with, one of the main things that we figure out is, is this a relational issue? Or is this something that is going on with the individual partners relationship with sex? For instance, I actually don't think that Charlotte was doing anything. I don't think she really did anything wrong. I mean, she did show her disappointment, but that was mainly because he wouldn't even talk about it.

Right. So I do assess them for that. Now, with Trey, it could have been so many different things. It could have been his upbringing. It could have been that having Bunny as his mother who, I don't know, although she did seem to have a little freaky side because she was like after Charlotte kissed the gardener. Oh, my gosh. He was like, oh, you're a McDougal now. It was like, oh, okay.

I know. I took that to mean, like, troubled. Well, like, everybody's done that. I thought. Yeah, everyone's cheating. Oh, everybody's cheated on their. partner kind of thing. And so I think then I would basically go into for a lot of men who are experiencing erectile difficulties, whether it's getting an erection, maintaining an erection,

delayed ejaculation, early ejaculation, a lot of that has to do with stress. Usually there is a lot of stress involved. And yes, that could be impacting the relationship. It could be solely having to do with their professional and providership roles, all of that. For a lot of men, though, once it happens once, the performance anxiety takes over. So then it's almost like it's just an out of control train, right, without the brakes. And we see that where he's willing to try, but it's almost like the minute that things aren't going well, the minute he gets into his head and that performance anxiety takes over, he's done. and scoot.

This, what, the schooner doesn't work anymore. The sales. Yeah, I know. The sales. The wind is out of the sales. Yeah. All the little things that, like that's the other thing that I think is interesting.

The way that he kind of, there's like infantilization, which makes you wonder about, you know, the mother relationship. But also my question that I have in terms of Charlotte, because I remember when she's talking to Samantha. and Samantha says, oh, he's thinking of.

you like his virginal wife. And he needs to see you as a sexual person. That's when we do that scene where I come and I say, I'm, I'm your wife and I love you and I'm sexual, which I thought was so, so beautifully written. So powerful. And hard to do, you know, hard to do,

hard to act, but also I can't even imagine in real life. So vulnerable. Yeah. And I mean, as a therapist who's, who's helping couples with these really delicate things, you know,

how do you gauge, Like when I watch it back, I think like Trace, he means well, but he's just not really willing to delve into it at all. That's what it seems like to me. Do you feel that way when you watch it? So that's the biggest red flag to me. It's not that he's experiencing the issue. It's how he's handling it and how he's making the fact that he's not handling it and how he's treating her attempts to try to help. That is not partnership.

Right. You know, she's over here doing the reading about it. She's bringing it up. She's being sweet and soft. I can imagine I've had clients who they are going to be much more direct and, you know, maybe a little brash and even mean, right, at times, sometimes even abusive in the way that they'll talk to their partners about this. She was tiptoeing as quietly as she possibly could.

And so when she came in and she had those heels. on and she's got this lingerie and and she's saying like no I am a sexual being this isn't even just about you this is about me and what you're doing to me and what you're taking away from me and my vision of what a healthy partnership looks like if maybe I think she was hoping like if you can just get out of the idea that this is about you and your erection but this is more about us and our connection and I think it was very powerful and Now, I have to say that they didn't do much talking about the fact that he was seemingly so into like really large breasts. Yes.

And that Charlotte does not. No. And, you know, that is something that I think a lot of women really struggle with, especially with men who are watching a lot of pornography. Typically, the pornography that they're looking at and the videos that they go in watching versus what they end up ejaculating too much. might be very different, but there is typically a sense of it's different. It's different than what I have at home. And a lot of women cannot reconcile that. How can you be looking at big bottomed black women when I'm a small, petite Asian woman? You know, like, how can we do that? And that's something that I think does turn into a relational issue. So even if they're not maybe coming into the sessions with a relational

issue that they know of. We have to talk through these things and really kind of unpack the baggage. And I think that Charlotte was trying to do that. She's like, well, is it this? Well, is it that? And Carrie was so sweet to offer the idea of like, well, let's see if it's a physical versus emotional. That it is true. Sometimes it is physical and there's not much they can do. There are nowadays more invasive things. But, you know, if it's emotional, that's where they come in to see a certified sex therapist because we can really work with them to kind of peel the layers away. And there are always layers. And that's okay. And when people seek this help, they typically get the help that they need. Well, that's nice. That's good to know. It's hopeful. It is really hopeful.

Yeah. Okay. So both partners are willing and go in, which, you know, that's the question is, Trey actually really willing to look at what he needs to look at. Unclear, right? Seems a little unclear. Yeah. Yes. Well, he's rejected everything so far. And then all of a sudden he's like, I'll take us to counseling. Right. But then they start making out in cabs and he must have sex everywhere else.

Everywhere, but the way that she would like. And I think that's so interesting. And I mean, I've never been married and I haven't had these issues. But like I do feel like that's kind of an intimacy thing. That's like someone who's challenged by real intimacy, Trey. It is. it almost seems like he is only stimulated by something really big and flamboyant and grand. Like that's what gets the radar going and that's what causes his arousal to spike or even be present.

So being in a long-term relationship for someone like Trey is going to be challenging in the bedroom. And he has to be willing to say, you know what, my desire to be with this person and to build a life with her is so much stronger than this particular issue that we're dealing with. And he just was not having it. I'm Lori Siegel, and I'm mostly human. I go beyond the headlines with the people building our future. This week, an interview with one of the most influential figures in Silicon Valley, OpenAI CEO Sam Altman.

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of that responsibility? Find out I'm mostly human. My highest order bit is to not destroy the world with AI. Listen to mostly human on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. In 2023, former bachelor star Clayton Eckerd found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story. This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth. You doctored this particular test twice in so-ins, correct? I doctored the test once.

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Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you, the guy was a spy. Did you know Dahl got cozy with the Roosevelt's? Played poker with Harry Truman and had a long affair with a congresswoman. And then he took his talents to Hollywood, where he worked alongside Walt Disney and Alfred Hitchcock before writing a hit James Bond film. How did this secret agent wind up as the most successful children's author ever? And what darkness from his covert past seeped into the stories we read as kids.

The true story is stranger than anything he ever wrote. Listen to the secret world of Roll Dahl on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Why hasn't a woman formally participated in a Formula One race weekend in over a decade? Think about how many skills they have to develop at such a young age. What can we learn from all of the new F1 romance novels suddenly popping up every year? He still smelled of podium champagne and expensive friction. And how did a 2023 event called Wagageddon change the paddock forever? That day is just seared into my memory.

I'm culture writer and F1 expert Lily Herman, and these are just a few of the questions I'm tackling on no grip, a Formula One Culture podcast that dives into the under-explored pockets of the sport. In each episode, a different guests and I will go deeper into the wacky mishap, scandals and sagas, both on the track and far away from it, that have made F1 a delightful, decadent dumpster fire for more than 75 years. Listen to No Grip on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And then at the end of this particular episode that we're going to get to, because this is so fascinating. I love talking to you about this because this is the kind of thing that I wish I had had time and,

a way to get some more insight. But then also, I think that the end result was always going to be what it was going to be. Like, this was the plan. And then it was more about kind of flushing out how it went down over time. And we all fell in love with Kyle. And so he stayed longer than they had originally planned. And so we kind of stay in it and try different ways longer than they had originally thought we would. But I mean, it's so interesting to hear about because I think intimacy in general is really complex and interesting. And yes, our shows about it and about a lot of the stuff around it,

but sometimes we can't dig as deep as we might like because it's a comedy, right? So, like, I love hearing the inner, the inner things. And like, I have one more specific question for you, but I wanted to say the name of the title. It's called What Sex Got to Do With It, which is, of course, really funny

that we're just now getting to that title in our show in the fourth season, what sex got to do with it? And I think we would say pretty much everything. Pretty much everything. Well, here's the thing. When sex is going well in a relationship, it doesn't account for much. Most people don't even talk about it.

But when it's not going well is when most people are freaked out, scared, threatened, disappointed, the anger goes through the roof, this feeling of resentment and insecurity. So when it's bad, it's really bad. Yeah. Yeah. I feel so, so much empathy for couples going through things like this because it seems so, like if you've found someone that you want to commit to and that you want to build a life with and then there are these difficulties, it is just so vulnerable to have to look at it.

And then to get professional help is like so brave, you know, but also like then you actually have to peel back the issues and the things and, you know, do some homework. like one of the things I wanted to ask you about, and I think I've seen this maybe in a movie or maybe, I don't know if it was satirized or whatever, but like the idea that a couple would go to a sex therapist such as yourself and then they might get exercises like to go home and to just touch and not have sex. Is that a real thing? So we call that Sensate Focus. It is a strategy that's been around for a long time and intervention. I actually created a program that is, much more tailored to what I see is really working in therapy. And I actually, it's called the Dr. Viviana method for intimate reconnection. And it's over the course of six weeks, you're building on physical and emotional intimacy exercises.

So it just keeps adding on and adding on and building on. But the way that's like pure sensate focuses, I don't think is ever really enough for couples now. I think we all expect a bit more. So the idea that you would just lay and maybe be naked next to your partner and just kind of slowly caress them for like an hour. I was like, you know, it's just not realistic. It's so sweet, though. It's so sweet. It is very sweet.

And I think for a lot of couples, I'm encouraging them to do that like when they cuddle at night before they go to bed. Yeah, that's nice. Or in the morning before they have to get up and do the day. Yeah. I'll say set a timer for five minutes and just allow each other to like touch and connect and like breathe again, you know, big spoon, little spoon. Maybe it's feet touching. I was just telling a couple.

I said, y'all just rub your feet together a little bit, you know, just kind of connect in that way. And that's a version of Sensate Focus. But yeah, the real like pure one is I just think for a lot of people. it's a little bit more frustrating and kind of cheesy and boring. But it comes from a good place. Of course. You just get to put your slant on it.

And I put my slant on it. That's really interesting. I like that so much. So in your program, you would start with something like that and then there would be steps that you would progress through. So actually, you go even further back, which for a lot of people, they don't really understand why if you're going to a sex therapist, you take sex off the table. But what I find is that a lot of couples are kissing or

holding hands or even having intercourse just out of habit. But they're not actually wanting it. They're not doing it because, oh my gosh, I just want to kiss you right now. And so they get into these habits and I say, no, no, no, we need to break off and almost like strip away all of the habits and routines so that the next time that this happens, it's very intentional and it means something and it carries more weight than just a peck on the lips. Right. So it actually starts with something like and embrace, which a lot of people are like, wait, so we're just going to embrace each other for a week in the morning and the evening while saying something really sweet. Yes, because a lot of people don't even hug their partners anymore. So the idea that you're holding them and you're wanting

to impart a sweet sentiment that is very, it's very sincere. And you've taken the time to stand up and hold each other while you're saying this little script, it's very short, it's just three or four lines, but it's very, very sincere. You should, I mean, people start crying. They start crying because they're like, oh, my gosh, even just while we're going through what they're going to say, they start welling up. And this is both partners or one partner and the other partners like, oh, my gosh, what's going on? It's like, I only hear this in a card once a year for our anniversary.

The fact that we're going to say this to each other, and it's, sincere and we mean it is just like it already starts the transformation. So I always tell people like, don't knock it. Like let's take it back. And then we can then you add on a kiss and then you add on more and more and more and more. And then by week six, there's a little bit, you know, there's penetration involved. Well, that's nice. But they worked up to it. Right. I like that. And it makes sense. I'm, you know, I'm a sex therapist. So I really do appreciate the value of sexuality within a relationship, but more importantly, I feel like there should be, sex should make sense. It's not just something that you do. It should make sense within your relationship. And if it's not

making sense for whatever reason, you got to handle that. I mean, that's so great. That's so great. And it seems so like, yeah, who wouldn't want that? You know, like, just just saying sweet things and hugging each other is like so good. But I also feel, and I mean, I've got friends who've been married like 30 years and whatnot. And I do think that there is a certain, like, risk involved when you do have a successful relationship, right? It's not that it's unsuccessful, but maybe there's different elements that have taken over. There's public image. Yeah.

There is money. There's history. their kids, there's businesses. I mean, there's just so much. So much. That for a lot of my clients in particular, they're trying to preserve not just their intimate connection, but their entire lives. And it does create pressure.

And that's why I'm a big fan of like, start with premarital counseling. I have had clients who I've had for their entire relationship. Wow. Who come in from premarital counseling. And now they're in maintenance and they come in once every three months. So this is something where you don't have to. to be in crisis. Yes, of course you can be. And I love a good crisis. Don't get me wrong. After having done this for over 22, 23 years, I'm like, give me the toughest situation.

Wow. I like those hard puzzles, right? Yeah. But do yourself a favor and go when things are okay so that you can learn to talk about things when you're not angry. That's so nice. That's so good. So people would actually come to you before they're actually getting married. Yes, before they're married. Even pre-engagement counseling is the thing. Now, people are like much more conscientious. They are like, I am investing in us because I don't want to waste time. I don't want to get a divorce, you know, after we have kids.

So there's pre-cohabitation is a big one. Wow. Some people will come in within the first three months of dating. What? Because they don't want to, they don't want to waste their time. They're like, let's figure. these things out. Red flag? Let's figure this out. And they don't know what they don't know. Well, that's true. But it's amazing that they realize that, you know, that they're willing.

I wish there were more. Of course. I wish that there were more. But there are people doing this. It seems really, really smart to be doing that. It seems like a really smart thing because you're getting someone's like kind of eye in terms of, you know, what might be underneath something or a red flag that you're not aware of or you're maybe like, oh, maybe. But sometimes you don't even know yourself. And that's, as we started talking about it with Charlotte, she really is alone in her own head, you know, like what is going on. But I think her eye is so much on the prize, which is that's kind of Charlotte's issue, right? But isn't that interesting? Because as I was rewatching this episode, she could have easily done what I'm sure you and I have seen before where it's like,

okay let me just sweep this under the rug. Yeah. And oh, okay, now everything's, you know, maybe there's some functioning going on and whatever. And she could have said, gosh, this is so good on paper. Or maybe I don't need this passion. Right. Maybe I, you know, and that is a real thing that people question when they're trying to figure out if they should stay with someone. And so it took a lot for her, I think.

Yeah. To kind of say, wait, no, but this is fake. Right. This isn't real enough. Right. No, no. And that's the saving grace of Charlotte, right? Is that like, like she does have the romantic vision and she is really focused on a goal in a way where, you know, it might be questionable.

But in the end, she wants to be authentic. I think she's looking for authenticity, like more and more authenticity. She's not willing to go backwards. And that's what I love about her. Exactly. Yeah. Thank goodness. I feel like we would have all been almost like, no, Charlotte, we would have been screaming

at the screen if she was like kind of caving. Right. But she didn't. And then another thing that I noticed and the reason that it stood out to me rewatching it is because in the very first chapter of my book, The Four Intimacy Styles, I talk about how for for me, yes, we all have heard, you know, sex, money and kids are the cause for most breakups or divorces. But for me, I think it's sex, but most people don't want to say it is. Wow. But the fact that she is like, you know, as publicly conscious of her reputation, but the fact that

she's able to say like, no, we have sexual issues. We have bedroom issues. I just thought, gosh, she was almost like ahead of her time because most people will not say that, even though it's 100% why they're divorcing. No, you're so right. You're so right. And that is one thing when I'm re-watching this show. And people had said this to me over the years, but I was always like, really? Are you sure that Charlotte kind of, she just says truths like out of the blue.

Do you know what I'm saying? And sometimes they're uncomfortable truths, you know? And I think that's also, she's kind of a massive contradictions in a lot of ways that I made her fun to play for 18 million hundred years. And that was one of them. Like she does have the facade.

Like I'm going to have the upper side good girl facade, but yet I'm actually going to say the hard things. It's interesting. It's interesting. I'm Lori Siegel, and I'm mostly human. I go beyond the headlines with the people building our future. This week, an interview with one of the most influential figures in Silicon Valley, OpenAI CEO Sam Allman. I think society is going to decide that creators of AI products bear a tremendous amount of responsibility to products we put out in the world.

From power to parenthood. Kids, teenagers, I think they won't need a lot of guardrails around AI. This is such a powerful and such a new thing. From addiction to acceleration. The world we live in, a competitive world. And I don't think that's going to stop, even if you did a lot of redistribution. You know, we have a deep desire to excel and be competitive and gain status and be useful to others. And it's a multiplayer game.

What does the man who has extraordinary influence over our lives have to say about the weight of that responsibility? Find out on Mostly Human. My highest order bit is to not destroy the world with AI. Listen to Mostly Human on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. In 2023, former bachelor star Clayton Eckerd found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story. This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth. You doctored this particular test twice in so much, correct?

I doctored the test ones. It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case. I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for. Some lights the greatest disinfected. They would uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg, a lesbian, Michael Marantini. My mind was blown.

I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trap. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at Americopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges.

This isn't over until justice is served in Arizona. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know Roll Doll, the writer who thought up Willie Wonka, Matilda, and the BFG. But did you know he was also a spy? Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been. Our new podcast series, The Secret World of Roll Doll, is a wild journey through the hidden chapters of his extraordinary, controversial life. His job was literally to seduce the wives of powerful Americans.

What? And he was really good at it. You probably won't believe it either. Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you, the guy was a spy. Did you know Dahl got cozy with the Roosevelt's? Played poker with Harry Truman and had a long affair with a congresswoman. And then he took his talents to Hollywood,

where he worked alongside Walt Disney and Alfred Hitchcock before writing a hit James Bond film. How did this secret agent wind up as the most successful children's author ever? And what darkness from his covert past seeped into the stories we read as kids. The true story is strange. than anything he ever wrote. Listen to the secret world of Roll Dahl

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Why hasn't a woman formally participated in a Formula One race weekend in over a decade? Think about how many skills they have to develop at such a young age. What can we learn from all of the new F1 romance novels suddenly popping up every year?

He still smelled of podium champagne and expensive friction. And how did a 2023 event called Wag Ageddon, Change the Paddock Forever. That day is just seared into my memory. I'm culture writer and F1 expert Lily Herman, and these are just a few of the questions I'm tackling on no grip, a Formula One culture podcast that dives into the under-explored pockets of the sport.

In each episode, a different guest and I will go deeper into the wacky mishaps, scandals, and sagas, both on the track and far away from it, that have made F1 a delightful, decadent dumpster fire for more than 75 years. Listen to No Grip on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay. Now, there's a lot going on in this particular episode with everyone else also. So let's talk about them for a second because there's some very, very interesting things. For Carrie, Carrie's going out with the jazz guy now, which is very interesting and different. And she tells the girls in this episode that she has the best orgasm of her life or one of the best orgasms of her life.

and that normally she has to be in love with someone for that to happen. And what does it all mean? And I think that's really, really interesting. What do you make of this? So it is interesting because what I'm noticing with Carrie and the jazz guy is that she's almost like, oh, I've never really been with someone who's kind of forced me to follow along with him. Like she's following him.

She is not in the lead really at all. And we kind of find out why later. But he is kind of like a, no, no, no, listen to me. No, I'm doing this. You want this? I'm going to give you this. And he even takes the lead in the bedroom. And she just kind of has to be a passenger, which is kind of sexy too, right?

Sometimes it's just nice to be a passenger. Yeah. A passenger princess. But I think what's great about the way that she handles it is that I love that she goes back to talk to the girls. Kind of like a, this is great and all, but there's something up. Because, I mean, for somebody who's enjoying the sex as much as she is, I'm surprised she would even, like, remotely put ink into the water, right?

Yeah. And she's just kind of waiting to hear like, what's going on with this? And they could have been like, they could have maybe burst her bubble. Yeah. They didn't. Well, the truth is, Carrie doesn't really let anyone burst your bubble, if you've noticed. Because all of us at one point are like, no more big. And yet she does what she does.

You know what I'm trying to say? But I mean, she talks to us about it, which is great. But I think it's interesting because, like, on the one hand, we've got the trace situation, which is all complicated now and they're trying and he's trying and, you know, whatnot. There's very clearly, like, he has kind of a, you know, difficulty being fully intimate with someone who he also wants to be with, I guess, right? Like he likes the drugs magazine, as we discussed. and he wants to have sex in the cab and whatnot.

And for her, it's kind of interesting also in that she's basically saying that it's a surprise to her that she doesn't know him that well. She's kind of trying to connect with him in other ways. It's not really working so well. But yet she has one of the best orgasms of her entire life, which is saying a lot. And also it does seem like it is related to the fact that she's not really trying to do anything or trying to get something from him in an interesting way. Right.

She's not performing at all. She's not trying to seduce him. I mean, she's trying to get him to focus. Right. Which is difficult. But other than that, it's almost like she's having to say, wait a minute, don't you want some sort of an emotional connection? Like, wait a minute.

Right. But it's kind of cool and interesting in a way. And it reminds me of one of our very first episode. which is, can you have sex like a man? Can women have sex like a man? Remember this? And it was all about like, can we not have attachments or can we just look at it as good sex

in the way that men are seemingly able? And I don't know if that's even true. Do you think that's true that men and women are different in the fundamental way that we look at sex? I don't know if it's a male-female thing, but I do think that societally and socially, we as women could learn something from men, about the way that they are able to let fantasies just swirl around them all the time and sexual

thoughts. I think for women, we have to compartmentalize. We tend to compartmentalize sex so much. And I think men are just so good about being like, ooh, there's a sexy, you know, stimuli. There's, you know, there's a really good looking butt. And they almost like let these thoughts in. They let them swirl around. Sometimes they masturbate. Most of the time they don't. they can talk about it and with women I feel like it's very much oh I should not be thinking about that right now or oh that's wrong to say that or why am I looking at that it's it's all just push push push we reject these thoughts away and I feel like that's the main difference that I see I just I wish I'm not saying that we need to be like men but I do think that women need to allow sexy thoughts to

come in a lot more often and prioritize them in order to have a healthier fantasy life and that mind-body connection so that when they are in the mood or they want to be in the mood, they can access that quicker. Oh, that's very interesting. That makes sense. Fantasy is really big. And I have something for that too, because I'm telling you, I've been doing this a long time. I'm like, look, you're not going to see me, but come to my website. My Vivid Fantasy. It is a way to create your own fantasy using almost like it's multiple choice and it spits out something that then you can read as often as you'd like to get you in the mood. And it came from an in-office activity that I used to do, especially with women who were like, I've never fantasized. I don't even know what's

sexy. And then I would ask them questions looking down at my notebook, not giving them, you know, but asking them, like, where would you want to be touched? And what would you be smelling? And what would the lighting be like? And by the end of it, they're like, oh, my gosh, first of all, I'm a little hot and bothered. Second of all, I didn't know that that was in here. And I'm like, yes, it is, but we just don't take the time to really fantasize. And now with audio erotica, it makes it so much easier with audio books and with, you know, we call it clitorotica and things like that. That's cute. I feel like we're much more into it, but it's so much better when you can access it in your own brain.

Of course. I mean, I think that really touches on so many things. And one, and this is also just a fundamental part of our show, is trying to peel back the layers of shame. put on to women by society for, you know, hundreds of years. And I feel like we want to and culturally, we're kind of moving towards it. But then sometimes I also feel, and I'm curious, your thoughts on this, when our show came out, you know, it was kind of a shocking thing, right? 1998. Very shocking. I remember, I don't even think I was allowed to watch, but I sure did. Yay. And now it's less shocking, right? But still, when you look at the episode, some of the things are

still like, oh, no, that's still happening. But I was talking to someone, we were talking about the naked dress in the first season. And we were just laughing about the way red carpets are now. Like basically people just don't even wear clothes. I mean, it's bizarre. Basically. Right? Like it's bizarre sometimes.

And hopefully we've gone, we've gone all the way we can go in that area. And now we might be coming back. But I sometimes wonder about like the realness is almost like a performative freedom, you know, for women in a way. Like, I don't know. I don't feel like, like for instance, what you're talking about almost just giving yourself permission to fantasize and think the sexual thoughts that one might have during the day just as a normal human being, right?

That men allow themselves to do, but women still have to kind of teach themselves to allow, like let those things happen. Let your mind go. And that it doesn't have to be in public. It doesn't have to be performative. You don't have to let the whole table know. You can, right? Y'all, Sex in the City taught us that you absolutely can, and you might get looks from the other table most of the time you won't, but that it doesn't have to be something that you're doing for someone else's benefit, especially if you're thinking about it from the male gaze,

G-A-Z-E, I don't encourage women to do that for the sake of their partner. It's for you. Your brain is your largest sexual organ. If you're using it, awesome. If you're not, you're missing out on some stuff. So it's not for only to be in a partnered relationship. It's not only to satisfy your partner's needs, but really to tap into something that is already in you, within you, and is a part of you, just like every other part of your body. Really interesting. Yeah, really, really interesting. And I do feel like this work kind of just continues culturally, right? Like we're just kind of just trying to deepen it out and you're seeing it in like people's specific lives. how it's playing out, which is so interesting.

Yeah, and then to see it on screen in so many different ways, it's like they're all case studies. Every single one-night stand, every single relationship, every single friendship, all of that, it's to me now looking back and re-watching these episodes, they're all case studies, and I love it. Because a lot of them, I'm like, these writers, who were they talking, who are they consulting with? Well, sex therapists, right?

The writers were putting their own stories in there or stories of her friend. So it could be once removed, right? But they had to have some personal knowledge of something that was happening. Now, sometimes, like in the instance of the trade situation, no one ever confessed to me whose story that was. And I don't know if it was particularly anyone's, because most of our writers at this point in time, we had Jenny Bakes, one of our writers on the other day.

And she was saying, like, all of them, I can't remember what she said exactly. were like criminally single or whatever, like they could not. Because we were just working so much, you know. So the writers, because the writers were. Very difficult. Right. And they were with us all the time on the set.

You know, it wasn't like they would write and turn it in and not come. They were like with us, which was wonderful. But they weren't able. They weren't really to the point in their lives where they had successful relationships. It was more them trying to date and try to figure things out. And then later on they did and wrote some of those things in. But like the trade thing, I think we. We're creating the Tray storyline as time went on because we kept Kyle longer than the original idea.

So they're just trying to kind of figure out, well, what would the problems be? And, you know, being, I think, super creative about it, you know, in terms of, you know, people might have these problems, but then also might not know how to handle them. And we're so hampered. Both characters, Charlotte and Trey, are hampered by kind of their ideal. and what they're trying to kind of hold up. Well, and they're pride, right? There's pride involved. There's ego.

Yeah. You know, he starts kind of, it's like, I don't even know how to describe the talk that he's giving his Johnson when it's like when he's trying to give himself a pep talk. And he's like, yeah, look, I'm like, and he's so into the fact that he's got this erection finally that is maintaining. and she's at this point like, oh my gosh, this is not even going to be about us. Right. That's sad. It makes me sad. It's sad.

Yeah. But that happens too. You get someone who has this reawakening sexually or for the first time ever within a relationship. And their partners can sometimes feel insecure about that. And it can sometimes feel like, well, wait, it seems like I'm now your toy. Right. And now your tool, you know. And I think for her, it was almost like a, wait, am I even here?

Like, it doesn't matter that it's, you know. Right. Right. No, I think that's very, very true. And I think, I mean, in this particular episode is when she's like, you know, when she leaves because he wants her to measure his penis or whatever. And she's like, I hope you and your penis have a wonderful night. Like, it's just like.

Oh my gosh. Exactly. Yeah. It's all about that now. It's all about that now. And she's like, oh, my gosh, this isn't going to be our sex life. This is now going to be you being performative for yourself because you've missed out on so many years. Well, that's not my, that's not my issue.

That's not my thing now. Right. Because she wants connection. She's trying to connect to him deeply. She wants to make love. She wants to have passion. And that's kind of been something that is just, it's like just out of reach for Trey and Sharry. So pain.

Just out of reach. It is. And you're like, is this, are they ever going to get it together? And then it's very clear in this episode. Like, no. Well, but then at the end, he asked her to move back in. What did you think when that happened? Were you like, no, Charlotte, no.

I'm like, no, Charlotte. Because you know, you know the reality of this. The reality is that she's now signing up for probably, a lot of doubt, right? There's going to be, he's going to feel like, well, what if it happens again? And then she's going to wonder how, you know, oh, no, we're starting all over again. And that can happen with lots of different dynamics and relationships where you're like, I'm seeing the same. I'm seeing these signs again. Yeah, yeah. And I think, I think the way that he, and more importantly, the way that he handled the entire sexual issue for the duration of their marriage, however short-lived

was that was such a red flag. Right. The handling of it, not the actual issue. The handling of it. Yes. I mean, even if he had said, I know that this is a big deal, I just don't know how to deal with it, or I'm so embarrassed or how, why would you want to be with somebody who's dealing with this? I'm like, anything that points back to I care. Right.

That would have made such a big difference. Right, right. And he doesn't really say things like that, does he? No, he doesn't. Oh, my gosh. I know. I mean, it's so hard for me to watch it because I want Charlotte to get what Charlotte wants, right? Because I did live that storyline. And so when he comes to the door with her engagement ring again and kind of proposes, because remember she proposed in the beginning. Yeah. Which I also do think, like, there is a way that you can look at their whole relationship as being somewhat her doing because she was so focused on that goal of marriage.

I mean, again, having had the opportunity to go through and see very now much more focused on just their storyline, she's not a victim. No, no, no. It's not a victim. No, no. But I think she had good intention. Most definitely. She thought, she thought he just needs a little prompting. There was some manipulation there, you know, with the touching and the, and she, you know, learning it from Bunny, who does it best.

It was just very interesting that she's getting what she wants, but it's not the exact way that she envisioned it. That's her shame. Right. And I think, I mean, I think it's so great, like, just for who she is as a character is so perfectly crafted that, you know, she's poetic. Yeah. It's very poetic. And also just so also painful that it plays out how it does over time. and yet he gives her just enough that she stays in.

Like every time she tries to, you know, get out, she comes at one point with a list. This is a couple episodes back or maybe the end of Thursdays. And she's like, I have a list and we've got to talk about these things. And he's like, no, no, let's make out. And she's like, but no, I'm trying to talk about these things. It's like I've really been there. It's the push pool.

Yeah. It's the push pool. And that exists in so many relationships. And sex is often the catalyst to feeling. like, wait, what are we building off of? You know, every time I go to talk to you about something important, you kind of blind me with your sexual prowess or, you know, you make me feel so good that it's like, oh, all is forgiven.

Right. But that said, he's not the villain either. No. I mean, he is just immature. And I think he's so kind of. ambivalent about things and I think that's just his upbringing and probably you know being a doctor a medical doctor that he's playing a medical doctor I feel like there is this sense of black and white there is this sense of or he may have known this is a much bigger issue and he just didn't want to

face it right like when you say the word ambivalence I mean that's the perfect word because it like in the scenes where Charlotte's just trying so hard and he's just got to that wall up, you know, oh, it was so painful. And I've just been there in so many different ways, not around this particular thing, but I mean, I'm sure all the women listening and men too, right? Like, you know, when you're just trying so hard to not be mean, to not, you know, shame in any way, to not, to not let those walls go up. Right. You're like, let me, you know, let me just be a little tiptoe and let me just be sweet and open. And she does that. And I, I mean, I know that they were able to share her frustration and they were able to show that she's like, she really cares and she's really frustrated.

To not get any of that from his side, there's such a stark contrast. I know. She cares. He doesn't. She wants to do something about it. He's shutting it down. He's obviously knows that something's going on, but he's not addressing it. And you're like, okay, well, maybe all of that will come together. and he'll when he thinks he's going to lose her right that's when most people are going to try when he thinks he's

going to lose her maybe right but no not really i know it's so hard and so relatable it just in terms of those those relationships that you want to make work but yet there is just a lack of some commitment on both sides equal follow through yeah yeah it's the follow through and i'm glad that at some point she realized like I can't do this all alone. I know. She's strong. She's strong. Like I mean, she already tried to leave it once. Like when they're when they're out at, you know, when she makes out with the gardener and she's like, yeah, we should separate. I was like, wow, Charlotte, brave, but obviously it doesn't last. But I totally get it because who wouldn't want to try? I mean, I get it. You guys, this is so much fun that we are going to have to have a part two. So join us later in the week on R.U.S. Charlotte.

I'm Lori Siegel. And on my new podcast, mostly human, I'll take you to some wild corners. of the tech world. I'm about to go on a date with an AI companion at a real world cafe right here in New York City. There's no playbook for what to do when an AI model hallucinates a story about you. Mostly Human is your playbook for how tech can work for you. Anyone can now be an entrepreneur. Anyone can build an app. And it's very empowering.

Listen to Mostly Human on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. In 2023, Bachelor Star, Bachelor, Star, Clayton Eckerd was accused of fathering twins. But the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax. You doctored this particular test twice, Ms. Owens, correct? I doctored the test once. It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg, a lesbian. Michael Mancini. My mind was blown.

I'm Stephanie Young. This is love trapped. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know Roll Doll. He thought up Willie Wonka and the BFG. But did you know he was a spy? In the new podcast, The Secret World of Roll Doll, I'll tell you that story, and much, much more.

What? You probably won't believe it either. Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been. Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you. I was a spy. Listen to the secret world of Roll Dahl

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Ready for a different take on Formula One? Look no further than No Grip, a new podcast tackling the culture of motor racing's most coveted series. Join me, Lily Herman, as we dive into the under-explored pockets of F-1, including the story of the woman who last participated in a Formula One race weekend, the recent uptick in F-1 romance novels,

and plenty of mishap scandals and sagas that have made Formula One a delightful, decadent dumpster fire for more than 75 years. Listen to No Grip on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.