Are You A Charlotte? - Strike A Pose. Vogue.

Episode Date: July 24, 2025

Chloe Malle, Editor of Vogue.com, joins Kristin to analyze some of Charlotte and Carrie’s most iconic looks. (Chloe also happens to be Sex and the City guest star Candice Bergen’s daughter aka Vogue Editor Enid Frick)They reveal the secrets of the Vogue closet, $4.50 a word, and borrowing Fendi Baguette bags!Listen to The Run Through with Vogue Podcast.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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This is such a ridiculous story. You can listen to American History Hotline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Sam Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? Guess what? We have Chloe Maul. I am so excited because Chloe is connected to the show in so many different ways. It's true. You are basically a second generation member of the family.

It's true. I'm a SATC Neppo baby. You are! We've coined a phrase. I love it. We've coined a phrase. She's an SATC Neppo baby. I love it.

And secondarily to that, or in front of that, I guess, she is the editor of Vogue.com. We've coined a phrase. I love it. We've coined a phrase. She's an SATC Nebo baby. I love it. And secondarily to that, or in front of that, I guess, she is the editor of Vogue.com and she has an incredible podcast, The Run Through with Vogue. And I mean, it's just a joy in so many different ways. I literally have the longest list of questions for you. I'm so excited. It's very fun to be on the other side of the mic in this. Is it? Do people ask you to be on a lot of podcasts? No, I'm usually the one talking to other people. Got it. It's a joy. I have had such a, you know, I love doing my podcast because of course I love our show and it's been super fascinating. I love to have on our cast members and writers and everybody, but also other people like yourself. And it makes me understand being a guest so much better.

Yeah. Like really, I'm like light bulb moment, like, you know, let's have fun, basically. It's like in film school, at the first year of film school, they make students do every possible role on a film set so that you know what you're dealing with. It's exactly like that. Yes, yes, yes.

So today, I'm the grip. Tomorrow I'm the lighting. I love it. You're not the grip. Today, you are the actor, I would say. Sure. But you have a lot of technical expertise, so you're like a really well-trained actor, I think, maybe. There you go.

Okay. So Chloe is the child of Candice Bergen, a beloved actress and friend of the brand, as we say. And Candy is just such a joy in so many ways, as obviously you know, she is your mother, which is incredible to even think about. And your father is Louis Maul, who if you don't know, please look him up. He is a legendary film director of like foundational memories for all of us in my generation, at least, and hopefully everyone else is as well. So that's just brief summary. So I just want to go back for a second for anyone listening. Our showrunner Michael Patrick King has a very long history with your mom

which is how your mom came to play Enid, the editor of Vogue in The Sex and the City World. I think Michael Patrick King wrote on Murphy Brown. That's right. He won an Emmy for writing on Murphy Brown. His first, which is so amazing to think about. And from his description of it, your mom was really his champion. I think he came in just as one of many, many writers because in the heyday of sitcoms, which that was definitely in the heyday,

you might have 15 writers, something like this. And she really was like that guy, that young guy, that standup, him, you know? So he really rose within the ranks of Murphy Brown, which was a very incredible, much lauded, incredibly viewed sitcom of the 90s, I guess. 80s, 90s. Yeah.

Is that right? So then she comes, we start our show for the beginning, she didn't come on for a while. And then when she did come on, she came on to play Enid, the editor of Vogue. And she has now played Enid through the first series, the film, the first film for sure, I wanna say, and then she's also come on and just like that,

which is to us just incredible and a miracle. And then for myself, I was in a play on Broadway called The Best Man. Oh yes, of course. I mean, it was so incredible. That was an amazing cast. Right? James Earl Jones.

James Earl Jones, Angela Lansbury, John LaRocque Head. I mean, it was a real group. It was a joy in so many ways. And your mom was there. I was literally dying of nerves. I was like the second cast, right? So when we came, I mean, I was just like, could hardly function basically from nerves. And the fact that your mom was there really

helped me because she's such a warm, comforting presence. And she was like, warm, comforting presence. She was like, Kristin, I was like, ah, Candy, I'm so scared. So she was really, she was really a joy. And Angela also, she used to call me Starshine. So cute. I know she'd say, good morning Starshine. I'd be like, oh, I'm going to die of happiness. Yeah, it was incredible. And then your mom, your mom had finished with the run and we were like, please don't leave us. But it was a great, great thing.. And then your mom, your mom had finished with the run. We were like, please don't leave us.

But it was a great, great thing. So I love your mom in so many ways, so, so, so many ways. And I love that you have landed in this incredible fashion world and position. How did it happen? Oh, well, I mean, 100 percent, this is I mean, there were a couple of like little news bits when I got this most recent job and they were like, well, and remember, Candice Bergen played a Vogue editor. It's not by accident completely.

I mean I'm, 100% my connections to people in the publishing and media industry got me into the door, no question. And I think about that a lot when sort of friends, kids write to me. I also want to respond to random people from college who have just graduated from my college and want to write to me. I really want to reply to people who don't have a connection. Because for me it was absolutely because I had connections to Vogue that I got interviews here in the first place and that was 15 years ago. That was 2011. And

I was writing at the New York Observer and the Times at the Times. And I came into interview for an editor job at Vogue which which was at the time, editing the front of the magazine section called Flash, which was sort of the fluffy, exciting events, glittery part of the magazine. It was the weddings, it girls, parties, et cetera. And that was really fun and a great way to sharpen my teeth in magazine editing. After five years of doing that, I then went freelance for a while. And then about a year and a half ago, I came on to take this role as editor of the website because my podcast co-host, Choma Nadi, moved to London to become editor

of British Vogue and she had been editor of the podcast. So we did a little musical chairs. Amazing. And to me, as a lover of Vogue, I feel like the website, and I guess this is true for most magazines, you know, because publishing itself like paper, old-fashioned publishing is kind of having, you know, it struggles these days. But now I feel like the website is so vibrant,

like taking over in such a beautiful way. So congratulations. Well, that's nice to hear. Thank you. Yeah, I feel that. I really feel that. Like the once the kind of, you know, for me, I remember when Olivia Wilde did a cover, this was a few years back, and there was a beautiful video that went with it where you could really only put that on the website.

You know, it wasn't something that would have had a place to live in its entirety, and it was gorgeous. And it really brought it all to life in a way that, I mean, yes, a photo shoot is fascinating and looking at a page I love still, of course, because I am old, but I also love the moving image. So it's kind of the union of both. It's exciting to experiment with mixing different types of media that supplement the original print form rather than replace it. Yeah, absolutely.

It makes it part of a bigger, more holistic product. Absolutely. Absolutely. But what about your love of fashion? Because your mom was an incredible fashion icon. I mean, did you grow up surrounded by her closet and loving her fashion? Or did you not care?

Like, where were you? She is very dismissive of her love of fashion. Ooh. She does not want to be. She is very dismissive of her love of fashion. Ooh! She does not want to be... She's someone who cares about what she wears and likes clothes, but she doesn't... I don't think she would ever describe herself as a fashion person. But she was always on best dress lists, and I remember once I asked her if she was a hippie,

because we were talking about how she protested Vietnam, and she said, I was a well-dressed hippie. I love that so much. I love that so much. And that's absolutely true. I mean, you do get the sense that she was this just incredibly beautiful young woman who kind of just fell into kind of her early days modeling. It wasn't something that she wanted to do.

It just seemed like people saw her and just wanted to photograph her. Yes, I think that, and she's written about this too, but I think that part came very easily. And what was more difficult was getting people to take her seriously for other pursuits, like photography or writing. And I was thinking about that

because I just watched Mariska Hargitay's documentary about her mother, My Mom Jane, and Jane Mansfield had a similar... I think that happened and still happens to a lot of women who are very beautiful, where it is hard for them to be taken seriously for anything beyond superficial attributes. So that definitely... I think that's probably part of why she never leaned into loving fashion as much as, I don't know that she loves fashion, but she loves her own style. And I think she loves wearing things that make her happy and bring her joy. And she's not a vain person at all.

And so she is very interested in joyful sort of goofy things and it doesn't have to be something that's necessarily the most flattering or the chicest. It's more about dressing for herself, which I respect. I respect that so much and Sarah Jessica is like this as well. You know, people think that she is gonna have this incredible closet at her house. She does not. Everything's in storage cataloged, which is incredible, of course. But she has like three things that she wears on repeat,

and they're quirky, because she's trying to create an expression of herself. She's interested in that more so than the trends, or fitting in, or having the newest thing, or whatever it is. And that, I think, is so strange for people, obviously, who've grown up watching her as Carrie, because they think she is going to be Carrie and she's not. But I also think it's true for anyone who achieves that status of being an It Girl or, you know, in whatever era, you're kind of pigeonholed in that kind of moment of time

in a weird, weird way. But I'm still interested in you, Chloe. So I know your mom. So no matter whether she wants to say that she's into fashion or not, I know she has incredible things. So I just wanna know when you were growing up, because I have a child, right?

I have two children, a boy and a girl. And I'm always curious, seven and 13. I'm always curious. My daughter, 13 year olds at this time, it is fascinating, right? I mean, so fascinating. And she really doesn't like most of my stuff, but every once in a while she'll go like,

oh, you know, like bulb goes off on her. Oh, I might want that. And I'm always like really flattered because they're very picky, very, very picky, very, very picky tweens, right? Tweens, teens. But like, you picky tweens, right? tweens teens. But like what, you know, you were surrounded by these beautiful things.

Did you think, oh gosh, I love these beautiful things. I understand them. I wanna understand them. I wanna wear them. How, what was your relationship? Thinking back now, I mean, I have a three-year-old daughter who every time she gets dressed or undressed, it's like an operatic complete tantrum.

And it's completely exhausting. But I do think about how much I respect how my mom let me wear whatever I wanted as a teenager. And I wore some deranged outfits. I mean. Wait, what year was this? What year was this? This was, I would say when I mean... Wait, what year was this? What year was this? This was, I would say when I was like 14, 15, so 99, 2000.

I was still living in LA. I used to go, there was a great vintage store on Ventura called Iguana Vintage. I would go there and get like orange suede cowboy boots. There was like a belt that had a huge clock face on it. I mean, it really truly hideous things. I love it. And she was just always just was like, okay, whatever. I also like to make a lot of like sort of craft a lot of my things.

I would paint on my corduroys. I would, you know, cut up a David Bowie t-shirt and make it into a tube top, which I wore on New York City. Oh my gosh! Well, that's very, come on, that's very in. My daughter would be way into that if I were to allow her to wear such a thing. And she, I mean, she really let me live that truth for myself. Wow, wow, wow.

When you look at fashion now, because now these things are coming back in weird ways, like some of them are coming back and some of them aren't coming back. I'm very confused personally, because I already lived it, right? As an adult, like there are pictures of us in these things. And so now I'm confused about what I can wear or should wear. You know what I'm saying? How do you look at the kind of comeback of the 90s vibe? I never had a sort of either a like an indie sleaze or a grunge or a minimalist period, I was always very, wore a lot of colorful vintage things. So those moments that are coming back into cultural parlance today are not as triggering

for me. I will say that there was a moment, I think I was 16 or 17, my mom and I were going to Barney's New York together. I miss it so much. I know, I miss it so much. There was a paparazzi photo taken of the two of us. My mom looked great, she was in her uniform of like slacks and a button down and some

turquoise earrings. I was wearing like sort of vomit colored corduroys and welly boots that were frogs. Wow. Because I had those as a kid and then I got them again as a grown up and now J.W. Anderson makes the frog wellies for grownups that are like $700. I'm like, you know what? Maybe that outfit wasn't as bad as I thought it was. See? It does all come back around. It does. Because seeing that photo, I was like, oh, maybe I don't look as cool as I think I look.

I mean, I feel that way anytime I see a paparazzi picture. You know what I'm saying? Like, you never feel happy, I don't think. I mean, I don't know who does. But I also think that, I mean, I know at the time, I remember just desperately trying to wear these things because I felt like I should. And if I went on a photo shoot, all they would have would be low slung jeans where you weren't really supposed to have hips or a rear end or anything like that. And I would just be sweating bullets,

trying to fit myself in there. And I have, there's some pictures of me existing out there where I'm just like, oh my God, I can't believe I'm wearing that out in the world. Like, my abdomen is showing and stuff. I mean, oh my Lord. But you know, that's what we did. I don't know, we were young, we didn't think that hard about it. And you kind of felt like it was just gonna go away. But it doesn't. It's back already. Like, why is it so short now?

Low genes don't need to come back for me, but I respect those who are passionate about them. Really, really? I mean, my feeling is just no. Like I do not want my daughter wearing those. I'm just like, mm-mm. I have to draw the line, because I can't get her out of the crop, right?

And she's very tall. So if we've got the crop and then we've got the lot, it's a lot. It's too much. Right? Okay, thank you. I feel better now. I feel better. Because I do struggle.

Am I being too controlling? I'm not sure. I also think, though, that sometimes kids don't realize the suggestions of things they wear. I have such a specific memory of there was a brand of t-shirts that they sold at Fred Segal, Jet, John Ashiah, Tees that were everywhere when I was like 13 and it was the cool thing to get and to wear and they had sort of cheeky things written on them and everyone wanted to get one that said open 24 hours. And we didn't get it. We were just like, this is funny. It's like a diner. And

the moms lost their minds. And it was, it sort of needed that maternal gut check to be like, no, no, ladies, this is not a coffee shop. Right. This is your vagina. Right. It's a very stressful thing as a mom because, like, I've had some conversations with my daughter about this. Not, not, she doesn't wear anything like that so far, thank goodness. But, you know, just like a general conversation, like I went to the Paris, you know, not, what's it called? Roland Garros, you know, the Paris Open. What's it, it has a name.

The French Open. Thank you so much. The French Open. I went there, I've been before, and they have this very elaborate, like, collab store where it's, you know, Lacoste who sponsors it, and then also Wilson, and my youngest, my son is named Wilson.

So I'm in there. I know, right? I'm like, this is so exciting. And we were there because HBO Max, whatever we're supposed to say these days, was airing the tennis. So we're there and I'm shopping for the kids. And there were these really cute kind of vintage shorts

that had a W on them, but they didn't really have his size. They had Gemma's size, my daughter. So I thought, oh, I'm going to get these because they have her brother's name on, but they didn't really have his size. They had Gemma's size, my daughter's, so I thought, oh, I'm gonna get these because they have her brother's name on them. I didn't really realize they were kind of short in a vintage kind of a way, right? She's all leg, you know?

And I mean, she looks incredible. Everyone compliments her. I'm just dying. People tell her, you should be a model. I'm just like, wanna fall through the planet Earth. You know what I'm saying? I'm just dying. So I get them for her, then I can't tell them that she can't wear them because I'm just like, want to fall through the planet Earth. You know what I'm saying? I'm just dying. So I get them for her, then I can't tell them

that she can't wear them because I'm like, oh my God, I bought them. But then, so then I was like, okay, so we can't wear a crop top with them. But then I feel like I'm like, so controlling. And then she says, well, why not? I want to feel free. I want to feel good.

And I want to say, yes, you can feel good and you can feel free just only in the house. Did I make that right? It's very tricky. It is, right? And I think it's much trickier now than it was 20 years ago, because we want to be much more, we want to endorse our children's confidence and positivity and make them feel good.

But it's hard to navigate that. It is, I find it really stressful. And I'm also so curious about people in fashion and how they look at it, you know, because I also know there's a huge variety of how people parent, you know what I'm saying. And, you know, sometimes, I mean, like, when we were gonna talk to you

and you sent your favorite outfits, which we will get to, from the show, you know, it made me start thinking about, like, when we were going to talk to you and you sent your favorite outfits, which we will get to, from the show, you know, it made me start thinking about, like, there were things in the show, because I grew up in the South, where, you know, there was a look, but it was, you know, like, I'm pretty sure I had some wide whale corduroys that had frogs embroidered on them. You know what I'm saying? Like, we were that level, you know? At one point, my parents, not so much, but I wanted to fit in at school and be like super preppy, which meant all kinds of relatively unflattering things.

You know what I'm saying? But they were in, so who cares when you're a teen, right? And I mean, then I went to college in New Jersey at Rutgers and they were just like, what are you wearing? Like, you know, girl, like come on. And then they took me to vintage stores, which was definitely an expansive, wonderful thing. And I wore oversized jackets because it was the time of Madonna with our, you know, tights, right? And I don't think I really

had pearls, but you know, we were like, you know, I've been through many phases, right? This is what it means to be alive this long. But our own view of fashion, you know, it changes so much. And I remember when we started doing the show, I just really wanted to look like I fit in, because I didn't have this fantastic New York background that Sir Jessica and Cynthia had. I had been an out of work actress in New York for a few years before I moved to LA,

but that's a very different existence than the characters we were playing, you know? And we didn't have hardly a budget at all. When I had Molly Price, our costume designer, on, she told me we had $10,000 for the entire first season. Oh, my god. Can you believe that? That is wild.

I know. And we hadn't been on the air yet, so no one was lending us stuff because they didn't know what we were doing, you know? Wasn't there some great story about the first baguette that, like, Patricia found it somewhere or something? Because the idea that what Texas City did for the baguette, I know.

Any brand should be so lucky. And the idea that that had to be bag-borrowed and stolen was fantastic. It's true. That was, so Sarah Jessica already had a lot of her relationships. Because she had been an it girl. She tells me that I'm wrong when I say this, but I'm like, no, no, I'm sorry.

I have to correct you. I am correct. You were an it girl. She already had a collection of Manolo's, like a couple hundred pairs or something. And I remember because I was like, oh, you know, like so impressed, right? And she tells a great story of being in LA working and Manolo himself was here at the only store which I believe was on the sunset strip at the time and she met him like on a rainy day. No one was there.

He was doing like a showroom type of a trunk show and she was there and he made shoes for her just because she was a customer, not because she was an actress, where she got to pick the fabric and pick the heel and all those things. Then she ends up shipping them back to New York in a FedEx and it gets lost. I know.

The pain, the pain. So that was years before we did the show, right? So she had already started cultivating these relationships because she has incredible taste just naturally, you know? And she appreciates well-made things and the kind of craftsmanship of all of it. So she already, when we did the show, there's in the first season she wears the naked dress, which was Donna Karan, I think. And that was her own dress that she had worn to an event. So she already, she just went to her closet and got it out because we didn't have money to get

amazing things and no designers knew about us yet, right? So only from her contacts did they know. So she could occasionally say, oh, I'll call and try to borrow something. And I remember as myself going like, wow, that is amazing. And it was very clear, she would always say like, we have to return it. If they send something to us,

we have to take such good care of it and we have to return it. And we'd to us we have to take such good care of it we have to return it and we'd all be like okay okay okay you know like like trying to be just the best the best girls you know what I'm saying and return everything pristine so that they would lend again because the show really needed it right which you know I think in some ways was great training because she already had been through it and could could be an example to us of how to make those relationships. Like in the olden days, we would go to Fashion Week, which it wasn't everyone and their brother like it is now, right?

It would just be us. And I remember spending a whole day just going from like this show to that show to this show to that show. And it was so exciting because it was, you know, back, back, you know, when it was at Bryant Park and it was amazing. And you were just trying to be there for the designers so that maybe when you called them and asked for something, they might send it, right?

Like trying to make a relationship. And did it work? Yeah, it worked great because the show was on at that point, right? So yes, it worked really well. But also like for me, it was finding people that fit Charlotte's style and that fit my body

because we were asking for sample sizes. Which of course created its own stress. Sure. Sample sizes are not easy. And in the 2000s back how I started a while ago, this is my problem on the podcast, I ramble. I would go to photo shoots and they would have literally just like white jeans, low slung white jeans.

And I would just be trying to get them on and I couldn't get them on. I just be like, you guys, could you possibly get an A-line skirt like anything? And I would feel so bad, you know? That's terrible. It was very stressful. It was very stressful, the 90s, the late 90s is when we started the show.

It was really hard because there was just like the look, you know, there wasn't a lot of variety. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, of course. And now I feel like it's much better. I there wasn't a lot of variety. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, of course. And now I feel like it's much better. I don't feel like it's over. I think there is still, you know, a lot of pressure to be thin in the modeling world for sure.

We talk about this a lot here and the rise of skinny talk, which I think is so toxic and terrible. And I mean, GLP ones have completely changed the conversation around body positivity. I think a lot of people in fashion are skinnier than they've ever been. I agree. And it's startling. And it means that it's self-perpetuating because then the samples are smaller, then the models stay small. And it's hard to overcome that.

It's so true and I think it's also, you know, what people, I think sometimes people don't realize how hard it is as an actress to get the designers to dress you because they want to send you the sample sizes because they can't make everything in your size, right? They just don't have the capacity to make like a one of a kind that they haven't made for the stores and obviously you're trying to wear it before it's in the stores. It's like a whole kind of like domino effect of, of the way the fashion world works that you don't really know about until you get into it. But like just to get to borrow the clothes,

you have to fit into them. Yeah. And it's not easy and depending on the clothes, you have to fit into them. Yeah. And it's not easy. And depending on the designer, that's why it's so important for me to find like the Oscar de la Renta samples fit me. Thank God. Thank God. And Ralph Lauren, thank God, because that was very Charlotte. So it worked out.

But you know, those were relationships where once I figured that out, I had to really cultivate those. And thank goodness, they were very kind to us. And they still are. But back to the baguette, because I haven't answered you yet. I asked Sarah Jessica, when did it begin that we could borrow the things from the people, the designer things, and the baguette was the first thing.

Oh, interesting. Yeah. So she, I believe, had a relationship, had bought one or maybe more. So she already loved it. You know, she was very... She would do her research, right? So like, she wouldn't just casually, necessarily wear something, right? Unless it was vintage, in which case she would casually wear it.

But in terms of the current fashion trends at the time, and now also, she would really study like, you know, do I love it? Do I carry it? Is it functional? All of her different things. And the baguette was already something that she loved. And so maybe she brought her own one time and then we started that relationship and they would send her possibly 30 at a time. Like I just remember being like, and they were so beautiful hand

beaded, like sequined beading, painting, velvet, everything you could imagine. And I also remember that we would have these coffee table scenes and or restaurant scenes before we had the coffee shop built. And it would always be a struggle like where are we going to put the bags because you couldn't always hang your bag and true New Yorkers don't really hang their bag on the back of the chair. This was much discussed amongst us because me being a Southerner, I hang my bag on the back of the chair. This was much discussed amongst us because me being a Southerner, I hang my bag on the back of the chair and they'd always be like, Kristin, no. And I'd be like, okay, okay.

So then you're like, where do I put it? Where do I put it? And for Sarah Jessica, she wanted people to see this beautiful, beautiful baguette because what if she wasn't also in a walk and talk? So we have done scenes where the baguette is where the plate should be. You know what I mean?

And she would just make it work. It's true, I do kind of sort of can visualize that. Right? But it works for Carrie. It totally works, and she would make it work. Miranda would never, but it works for Carrie. No, that's exactly right. That's exactly right.

And that was how that relationship began. And I feel like that was the beginning of people realizing that we could and wanted to, you know, have brands on and feature them and do justice to them and wear them, you know, beautifully, hopefully, and all of that. Which really changed the show, you know? Because we could never, never have afforded all that stuff.

Not even now, you know, on and just like that. I mean, we're still begging people regularly. Baguette beggars. Baguette beggars and or any, any, literally anything else. I always think of the scene when Carrie goes to LA and tries to buy a fake baguette and then the guy takes her in the back and opens up like his trunk

and it's just all these fake baguettes in plastic wrap and she just recoils in horror. And she's like, I can't see them like this. Oh yes. And sort of back tracks and is like, I can't do it. Oh my god. And how wonderful because that's still such an issue. Totally. And I also think of that scene whenever I walk by the vendors on Fifth, like selling

like 40 Goyard bags in like old plastic. It's like really ruins the magic. It really does. But I mean, yeah, it's an interesting thing. It's an interesting thing. Like, you know, it is obviously, I mean, we could go down a whole rabbit hole of, you know, child labor and whatnot. But I mean, it's a problem, but I also kind of understand because I feel like with social media, this whole kind of, you know, like feeling the need to have all the things like Hermes and you know, it's gotten so intense.

It's kind of scary. So I get that people would want to get one however way that they could. What's the thing that all the 13-year-olds want right now? Like, when I was 13 and going to Bob Mitzvah's, it was a Kate Spade purse. Like, what is the thing? That's adorable.

You know, my daughter, luckily, is not so much into that, which is probably why I was asking you. I mean, the look here in LA is largely, you know, really baggy pants, some of them a little lower than I would like, but still baggy, which is good. And like crop top and like jerseys, you know, like that are tied up.

And sometimes they do cut things still, which I did as a youth as well. I think that's like evergreen. And then I can't, I mean, they're, I think at 13, the big fascination is will your mom let you wear heels? Oh, interesting. That's so interesting you say that because a few weeks ago, I went to have dinner with my mom at the Sherry, Netherlands

and I walked in and there was like a line of 12 and 13 year olds waiting to go down to Doubles Club, which is like this subterranean, like very waspy club in the Sherry, Netherlands, but it is known for becoming the location for boys' schools and girls' schools have their dances there. And so these girls were all waiting to go in

and the look for all of them, it was a exact uniform was tube top or tank top, mini skirt this short, and like high Air Jordans. It was all sneakers. It was all sneakers and mini skirts. And so I was like, oh, I guess they don't want heels anymore. Cause that was when I was that age, it was very much the bar mitzvah circuit.

And it was like, how high a heel can you wear? Right, right. I think it's both. I mean, I wonder if that's a New York City thing because they had to maybe potentially walk somewhere. I don't know, maybe not. Yeah, good point. Yeah, because my daughter definitely

wears her high Air Jordans and or her high Converse with dresses, that's it. There's no debate, but she's very tall as I said. And I have absolutely said, I'm so sorry you cannot wear heels because my entire ankles are pretty much ruined. So I'm not wanting her at 13 to start down that road. She has a few years.

Yeah, give her a few years for sure. But there are some smaller girls who are her friends who do have, I think that Kate Spade is still very desired. Oh, that's nice to hear. Like a little Kate Spade heel. You know what I'm saying? Like kind of a cute Kate Spade heel. You know what I'm saying? Like kind of a cute Kate Spade heel. But yes, the mini skirt and the tube top and or tank, it's a situation.

You know, it's a situation. Yeah. It's a no at my house, right? At least not at the same time, right? So that's what I'm really trying to focus on. But okay, let's talk about, I can't even decide which thing to talk to you about, but I do wanna talk a little bit more about the show and fashion

and your relationship to the show and fashion. Like when did you start watching the show? Did you know your mom was on the show? When did you pay attention fashion wise? In what order did those things happen? Good question when I started watching the show. I don't remember, when did the show air? We started in 98. Okay, so I think I started watching the show. I don't remember, when did the show air? We started in 98.

Okay, so I think I started watching it a few years later in like 2000 when I would have been 15. Got it. And what did I respond to the most when I first started watching it fashion-wise? I think even at 15 and living in Los Angeles, I was captivated by the things Carrie wore, but absolutely found them to be ludicrous and not realistic.

I was like a very unfun, pragmatic 15-year-old, and I was like, this is ridiculous. She can't wear this. She can't wear this tiny, you know, whatever. But I loved it and I found it delightful. I do have a very specific memory of watching the finale of Sex and the City. I had some girlfriends over to my stepfather's apartment in New York and we were all watching it together. And my stepfather was sort of mystified and took our golden doodle Jerry for a walk

and walked up past the restaurant we used to go to every Sunday night, Vico. And he was like, oh, we couldn't come tonight because the girls are watching some show. And the owner of Vico is like, everybody inside watching this show, no one comes tonight. Like it was like the Super Bowl was the SATC finale. That's adorable. There really were, you know, I do miss those sort of cultural moments of that streaming has taken away a little bit.

You know, there are shows that have a weekly rollout like, and just like that, but I do miss that group anticipation around a viewing moment. And I do have a very specific memory of going to the shoot day that was at the Vogue offices at Four Times Square. How great! Which is very funny because then, ten, fifteen years later, I was working there, and I just remember the row of desks along the wall where the fashion department used to sit.

And I loved Carrie's outfit. I always loved Carrie's use of brooches. I thought Carrie did— Oh, they love the brooches. Great brooch work from Carrie. Totally. They're still up to that brooch work. And in the Vogue Idea episode, when she goes to meet with Enid, she is wearing this amazing,

I think it's a Vivian Westwood, pinstriped skirt suit with a cameo brooch. And she looks fantastic. And that is a real dream outfit for me. Yep, exactly. Download the BenMGM Ontario app today. Visit BenMGM.com for terms and conditions. 19 plus to wager Ontario only. Please gamble responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge.

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including Superman and Sinners. Rosie Sinners, what an incredible cinema experience. I went in and I was expecting Coogler, I was expecting horror. What I didn't expect, there was just this unbelievable sprawling cinematography. This is a movie that gets better the more you think about it. From Star Wars to Fantastic Four, we're covering all the biggest movies, shows and stories in fandom, including interviews with none other than Superman and Lois Lane themselves,

David Coren's sweat and Rachel Rosner-Ann. We haven't seen the film yet. We haven't seen it. We're waiting to see it at the premiere because we want that full experience with the crowd at the premiere in LA. Me and Nick and David are going to hold hands and squeeze each other's little fingers when exciting things happen on screen. Listen to X-Ray Vision on America's number one podcast network, iHeart.

Follow X-Ray Vision and start listening on the free iHeart radio app today. Kelly Harnett spent over a decade in prison for a murder she says she didn't commit. I'm 100% innocent. While behind bars, she learned the law from scratch. He goes, oh God, H her and that jailhouse lawyer. And as she fought for herself, she also became a lifeline for the women locked up alongside her. You're supposed to have faith in God,

but I had nothing but faith in her. So many of these women had lived the same stories. I said, were you a victim of domestic violence? And she was like, yeah. But maybe Kelly could change the ending. I said, how many people have gotten other incarcerated individuals out of here? I'm going to be the first one to do that.

This is the story of Kelly Harnett, a woman who spent 12 years fighting not just for her own freedom, but her girlfriends too. I think I have a mission from God to save souls by getting people out of prison. The girlfriends, jailhouse lawyer. Listen on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. From iHeart podcasts and Rococo Punch, this is The Turning, River Road. I knew I wanted to obey and submit, but I didn't fully grasp for the rest of my life

what that meant. In the woods of Minnesota, a cult leader married himself to 10 girls and forced them into a secret life of abuse. Why did I think that way? Why did I allow myself to get so sucked in by this man and thinking to the point that if I died for him, that would be the greatest honor? But in 2014, the youngest of the girls escaped and sparked an international manhunt. For all those years, you know, he was the predator and I was the prey.

And then he became the prey. Listen to The Turning River Road on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My Uncle Chris is definitely somebody worth talking about. He was the kind of guy that lived in a trailer with an ex-con and a retired stripper, left loaded machine guns laying around, drank a bottle of whiskey a night, claimed he could kill a man with his bare hands, drove a garbage truck for a living, spoke fluent Spanish with a thick southern accent, and is currently buried in a crypt alongside the founding families

of Panama. Listen to the Uncle Chris podcast to hear all about him and a whole lot more. Wild stories about adventure, romance, crime, history, and war intertwine as I share the tall tales and hard truths that have helped me understand Uncle Chris. This collection of stories will make you laugh, it'll make you cry, and if I do my job right,

they'll let you see the world and your place in it in a whole new way. I can't wait to tell you all about Uncle Chris. Listen now to Uncle Chris on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, whichever, got married to Trey, I was supposed to wear this brooch that Bunny gave me that we were supposed to think was hideous. And it turned into this whole drama because it was really beautiful. And Pat and Molly, Molly Rogers, who is Pat's assistant the whole time and who is now our costume designer on and just like that and

also currently doing the Devil Wears Prada because I texted her this morning and she was in fitting with Anne Hathaway so then I had to text Sarah Jessica but I have an answer to something that you are going to bring up. But they all love brooches, Molly Southern also. And Sarah Jessica, again, this is about the craftsmanship, I believe. To make a brooch the traditional way is an artistry and she has such appreciation of that. So I remember that this brooch that I wore, which I was supposed to complain about, that Bunny gave me and I felt this pressure to wear it, et cetera, et cetera.

It was gorgeous. And so we had to cut all those lines. Oh my gosh. You know? And I still have it at home cetera, et cetera. It was gorgeous. And so we had to cut all those lines. Oh my gosh. And I still have it at home, because it is gorgeous. And it is- Do you wear it? No, I don't, because when I'm getting dressed, I don't think about how creative can I be?

I think, how can I look nice and not call too much attention to myself? Those are my two considerations. Student saying, like how did you both? But I should get those things out more often, you know? I should, because I have them. I mean, maybe one day my daughter will like them. I don't know. Who knows? Who knows?

But, okay, so let's go back to you. So you remember when your mom was doing the show and you went to the set, and what were your thoughts? Were you like, wow, this is cool? Like, what'd you think? Yes, I thought it was interesting. I thought it was cool. I wanted to be a writer when I was very young,

so I was very interested in, I forget, I meant to re-watch the episode, but I forget how much Carrie has paid. I think it's $4 a word. Yeah, I have it written down here somewhere. Is it $4.50 a word? It's $4, then she gets it up to $4.50 a word, yes. What, did you think of that?

How realistic is it? Which I was like, oh, it's by word. Interesting, I'm learning things. Right, right, right. Also now laughable, $4 a word, but. What do you mean? It's just most people are making $2 or less a word, I would say, at this point. That's so sad.

That's for print. For web, it's much less than that. That's so sad. But this is what I don't understand. I knew that there was a per word, you know, traditionally, this is how writers were paid for magazines and whatnot. But are you... Is there also like a salary? No.

Yeah. But what about like benefits? Well, if you're a freelance writer, you're not getting benefits. But like, like in your previous incarnation, when you were doing the weddings and the Icaro and the whatnot. Oh, then I didn't then I did not get paid any per word. I was just had a salary. Okay, but did you get benefits?

Yes. Okay, okay. Yeah, no, if you're on staff, then there's no per word. Got it, got it, got it. Then you're just on staff and you're writing whatever you're told to. Got it. But if you're a freelancer and you're being paid per word, like Carrie was, I mean, people back in the day used to make a lot

Per word, you know Michael Lewis apparently would make $10 a word at Vanity Fair Plum Sykes used to make $6 a word at Vogue. Wow Plum Sykes was in our movie. Yes. I remember that I love that scene I have to say I rewatch that on a plane a year or two ago. And it was such a delight because it really was a very accurate representation of a Vogue shoot. No way! Yay! To have Patrick and Andre and Plum. Andre!

It really was very much what really goes on and you don't see that depicted that often. That's so true. I mean, we knew all of them separately, just from the world. And I was one time in Aspen. We used to do the Comedy Festival. The HBO Comedy Festival was in Aspen every year. And Andre was there for some reason, which was fantastic.

And we went on a horse-drawn sleigh ride together up the mountain in this crazy snowstorm. And of course, he had his fur hat on and his fur. And he was just so much fun. Dr. Zhivago. Such a delight. Exactly, Dr. Zhivago. Because Andre lived big, you know?

It was like he created his own atmosphere that he desired. He was such a joy and so kind, so kind. And that day that we filmed, because Willie and I, I believe are in that scene watching, right? And I remember that our wardrobes had to be approved by Ms. Ventour. Ah! Likes to get her hand up in the mix.

Exactly, we were like, anything she wants, anything she wants. She and Michael Patrick worked very closely together and that's probably why it is accurate. And then I remember when Plum got there, she walked over and she was like, oh yes, this is fine. And I was like, thank God. Thank God, you guys.

I'm okay. I'm okay. In my very tight bra to skirt. Another scene I remember loving, even as a teenager with Enid, was when Enid and Carrie run into each other and... At the restaurant? At the restaurant. I forget what happens, but she says something about having it all. And then she...

Oh no, she says, you can't have it all. So I have a boyfriend who, you know, I'm above 14th Street and he has a different girlfriend below 14th Street. Right. You can't have it all. And then she goes to Carrie's book party and runs into the boyfriend with his other girlfriend because they're in no man's land. And I thought that was a great, I remember thinking it's true, you can't really have

it all and you do sacrifice things and it'll be interesting to see what I choose to sacrifice. Oh, that's interesting. So like as a personal point of reference, you thought, oh, this will be interesting. I just, I think it's nice to be reminded, I think I grew up during a period, a sort of post-Gloria Steinem, you, everyone, women can have whatever they want moment. And so I was raised thinking that was the case. And it was helpful to be reminded that mathematically it just isn't possible. I think that's fantastic. Yeah.

I think that by the time we made that show, who knows where I was at with that personally. But I also, I grew up with Ms. Magazine on our coffee table. You know, it was very important. But I also was surrounded in the South by a very different reality than what was presented in Ms. Magazine, right? So I was already in this very, you know, strange, like, what is true? I don't know what is true.

I guess you find what you would like to be true and create it or move or whatever it is, which is what I did. But still, I do think there was definitely a pervasive message around, I feel like the 80s, the late 80s, early 90s of like, you can have it all, you know, you're going to be a boss baby and you're going to have your babies on your hip. Remember all those magazine shoots where the models would have their babies or a baby, a pretend baby, I don't know, on their hip? Like it was a lot. Someone else's baby. Do you remember that?

It was a lot. And then occasionally their own baby and you were just like, wow, that is so impressive. But I mean, not easy and very rare, you know? And I think by the point that we made that show, we all really knew that because we were doing the show and it was really all consuming in so many ways and everyone was, you know, trying to live their lives at the same time and it was not easy at all. So I think that's probably why that show got

written. I haven't gotten to that point in rewatching but I love that you remember it. I love that you remember it and I love that your mom has been in the role of Enid over the years. It's so great and so fascinating. And sometimes I feel, and I wonder how you feel being over there in the world of the real Vogue. Sometimes I feel like we almost have to sugar cut the harshness of that business.

Like sugar coat, I should have said, or undercut, whatever. Lessen what we're actually saying, which is, it's kind of brutal. Yeah. Do you feel that? Yeah, I mean, I feel like I work in the fashion business, but I also very much feel like I work in the news business.

And because I'm doing the website, and our news might be Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey went on a dinner date, but it's still news, and it's still timely, And those kind of urgent reactive moments are very, can be quite stressful and feel like you have to be constantly on and responding. So I do feel like it's not this sort of just the joy of the Vogue closet kind of thing,

which doesn't really exist. Let's discuss. Let's discuss the Vogue closet. Because thing, which doesn't really exist. Let's discuss. Let's discuss the Vogue closet. Because at one point, wasn't your podcast set in a Vogue closet? Which I was like, I don't think that that's the Vogue closet. Well, that actually is the Vogue closet. And they did design it to be a place

where we could film interviews, which I thought was a great idea, because you have the wall of shoes behind you. Yeah, it's beautiful. I say it doesn't really exist in the way that we see it depicted on screen, because there's not tons of clothes there that just live there.

Clothes are called in for shoots. They are kept under lock and key. The Minolos actually are kept behind locked doors. There are shoes that live there permanently because often for a shoot you'll call in clothes, but a stylist will say, oh, but I just need a classic Manolo BB pump to go with it. So they'll unlock the Manolo cabinet and take out the BB pump. But no, I mean, the closet is a very controlled space

that's really a way station between shoot and going back to wherever they were borrowed from. Got it. And someone's keeping track. Oh, yes. It's a whole team of women and gentlemen keeping track. Do you think, like if you think about the Devil Wears Prada and the pressure on all of those assistant girls to look a certain way and also to be beyond excellent at their jobs, how do you, I mean, I know it was a comedy, obviously,

I should say that, but how do you think about that in terms of your own experience? Well, I will say that I never had the privilege of being Anna's assistant, so I don't have a firsthand experience of that. But I do find, just judging from Anna's two assistants right now, Sammy and Iza, they both look great and have fun with that. You know, Iza today is wearing a bright red, you know, shirt dress and she looks fabulous

and she has fun with it. So I don't feel that the pressure and this stress of having to look a certain way is what's dictating that's how they're dressing. I also think that things are very different at Vogue now than they were 20 years ago. I do I mean I remember when I started 15 years ago everyone was in high heels all day and now you're hard-pressed to find someone wearing heels. It's just a different environment. Yeah, definitely Condon asked when we went. I was surprised. I think we saw maybe a few people, but definitely there was a sense of fun with fashion.

There was a whole variety of what people were wearing in the building. Discover the exciting action of BedMGM Casino. Check out a wide variety of table games with a live dealer or enjoy over 3,000 games to the The X-Ray Vision podcast is your home for reactions, recaps and roundtable debates on the biggest pop culture moments of the summer. We drop four episodes a week and every Friday we're popping out the popcorn and breaking down that weekend's big box office draws, including Superman and Sinners. Rosie Sinners, what an incredible cinema experience.

I went in and I was expecting Coogler, I was expecting horror. What I didn't expect, there was just this unbelievable sprawling cinematography. This is a movie that gets better the more you think about it. From Star Wars to Fantastic Four, we're covering all the biggest movies,

shows, and stories in fandom, including interviews with none other than Superman and Lois Lane themselves, David Coren's sweat, and Rachel Brosnahan. We haven't seen the film yet. We haven't seen it. We're waiting to see it at the premiere because we want that full experience with the crowd at the premiere in LA.

Me and Nick and David are going to hold hands and squeeze each other's little fingers when exciting things happen on screen. Listen to X-Ray Vision on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow X-Ray Vision and start listening on the free iHeart radio app today. Kelly Harnett spent over a decade in prison for a murder she says she didn't commit. I'm 100% innocent. While behind bars, she learned the law from scratch. Because oh God, Harnett, jailhouse lawyer. And as she fought for herself, she also became a lifeline for the women locked up alongside her.

It's supposed to have been faith in God, but I had nothing but faith in her. So many of these women had lived the same stories. I said, were you a victim of domestic violence? And she was like, yeah. But maybe Kelly could change the ending. I said, how many people have gotten other incarcerated individuals out of here? I'm going to be the first one to do that. This is the story of Kelly Harnett, a woman who spent 12 years fighting not just for her

own freedom, but her girlfriends too. I think I have a mission from God to save souls by getting people out of prison. The Girlfriends, Jailhouse Lawyer. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. From iHeart Podcasts and Rococo Punch, this is the turning, River Road. I knew I wanted to obey and submit, but I didn't fully grasp for the rest of my life

what that meant. In the woods of Minnesota, a cult leader married himself to ten girls and forced them into a secret life of abuse. Why did I think that way? Why did I allow myself to get so sucked in by this man and thinking to the point that if I died for him, that would be the greatest honor? But in 2014, the youngest of the girls escaped and sparked an international manhunt. For all those years, you know, he was the predator and I was the prey. And then he became the prey. Listen to The Turning River Road on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. My uncle Chris is definitely somebody worth talking about. He was the kind of guy that lived in a trailer with an ex-con and a retired stripper, left loaded machine guns laying around, drank a bottle of whiskey a night, claimed he could kill a man machine guns laying around, drank a bottle of whiskey a night, claimed he could kill a man with his bare hands, drove a garbage truck for a living, spoke fluent Spanish with a thick Southern accent,

and is currently buried in a crypt alongside the founding families of Panama. Listen to the Uncle Chris podcast to hear all about him and a whole lot more. Wild stories about adventure, romance, crime, history, and war intertwine as I share the tall tales and hard truths that have helped me understand Uncle Chris. This collection of stories will make you laugh,

it'll make you cry, and if I do my job right, they'll let you see the world and your place in it in a whole new way. I can't wait to tell you all about Uncle Chris. Listen now to Uncle Chris on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hi, I'm Nicole Phelps, global director of Vogue Runway and Vogue Business and host of the Run Through podcast.

Every Tuesday, join me for the latest fashion news like the shakeups of Balenciaga and Dior and what's trending in Paris and Milan. You'll also hear interviews with top designers from Marc Jacobs and Rick Owens to Daniel Roseberry, Sarah Burton, and many more. On Thursdays, Chloe Moll, editor of Vogue.com, and Choma Nadi, head of editorial content at British Vogue, take you behind the scenes at Vogue and share their thoughts on fashion through the lens of culture. You'll hear interviews with some of your favorite stars

like Julianne Moore, Pharrell Williams, and celebrity stylist, Law Roach. Join us to get your fashion and culture news twice a week. Listen to the run through with Vogue every Tuesday and Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts. ["Fashion and Culture News"] First of all, I just want to tell you what I was texting Molly Rogers, our costume designer, and Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts. ["Wintergatan"] First of all, I just want to tell you what I was texting Molly Rogers, our costume designer,

and Sarah Jessica about is the vintage Chanel top. Yes. Yes. It's a repeat, right? It's not. Oh. There's a lot of debate. I know that it looks like it is.

And there was a lot of confusion online about it. So she wore this pink version back in the first show. And then this version she wore in, and dressed like that, is purple. So it's not that Sarah Jessica went to her archives and got it out, because I think we were already in the midst of shooting it. She didn't have time.

I think that Chanel sent it, or Molly found it. That was the thing where Molly's fitting in Hathaway, and I couldn't bother her. She apologizes. Molly found it. That was the thing where Molly's fitting in Hathaway and I couldn't bother her. She apologizes. But you know, they, Molly and Danny, are costume designers. They work for six months before we get going and they go to vintage stores in, you know, England and France and Palm Beach and you know, wherever, right? And they find all kinds of random things. So I think Molly found it somewhere and remembered the other one because she remembers everything.

So she brought it and she asked Sarjessica, will you wear this as a callback? So it was more a callback than an actual rewear. Because then online everybody was like, because also I think it has a logo in a different place on the back. How funny. I know, but you know the-

Internet sleuths. Exactly, they're on it, okay, they're on it. So I had to check in with Sarjessica and she said, no, it was the closest we could find. Oh, that you know the internet sleuths. Exactly, they're on it, okay, they're on it. So I had to check in with Sarah Jessica and she said no, it was the closest we could find. Oh, that's so funny. Yes, but she didn't go and rummage into her archive. I think sometimes she goes and gets things from her archive in advance, like for instance,

the Vivian Westwood wedding dress to wear to the Met Ball, when we know that there's a big plot point where she has to get something. I think she got the... was it... I can't remember, the huge mill-full dress? Yes. Yes, she got that out in Paris.

Right. Like, if there's something like that, she will go and get it out. Yeah. But I don't think this Chanel was that. I think this Chanel was Molly up to her tricks. And Sarah Jessica going along with it. And it was a joy to see. I enjoyed it. My going out at night outfit was really fun to create.

Oh my God, made me laugh so much. Thank you! Because I loved you and Harry together, and it completely... I really feel for parents trying to go out. That this is my vibe right now. Oh yeah, and can you imagine like also the work pressure? You know, which you probably might feel. I don't know. I sometimes feel the work pressure, though not in the way of like,

you're actually selling art after hours. You know what I'm saying? Like that's a very specific thing. So this was really fun because we knew it was coming. We were working on it for a while. This was our costume department at its best where they're mixing and matching pieces. It looks like it's one outfit,

but it's totally, every single piece is a different designer. I've got my little tiny Chanel, very impractical, but adorable bag slung across me so that I don't have to put it down, right? I have the Galeano Margiela corset, which I have at my house. Oh my god, amazing.

Right? I've worn it many times. It is a dream. OK. A dream, right? And we were a little concerned about the cleavage. So at one point, Molly wanted to put some chiffon I've worn it many times. It is a dream. Okay. A dream. Fabulous. Right? And we were a little concerned about the cleavage. So at one point, Molly wanted to put some chiffon across the top.

And we played with that, but then it kind of messed with the silhouette. So we took it off and kept it pure. I've got an acris skirt on. I have, oh, do you know, Brioni jewelry? She sent me that beautiful, it's like her rosette necklace to die for. And then we needed a little short bolero. So Christian Siriano made me a little short bolero and Molly went and picked the fabric, which was...

Perfect. So sweet, yeah. And it was such a creation and I had to wear it through so many different scenes. And we would, you know, take the jacket off. Oh, do you know? And then I have to walk out in the morning and, you know, smear my eye makeup and everything. But it was a good time. And everything stayed intact.

I was slightly worried that something was going to happen to that very expensive necklace and that dance sequence. But it did not. We made it through with maybe a few drinks spilled on the outfit, but nothing we couldn't fix, right? OK, so then this is the most interesting thing. You sent your favorite outfits from the first show

and no one in my life has ever sent me so many of Charlotte's lingerie looks. I love Charlotte's 90s. I have such specific memories of being like, oh, I guess you can wear pretty things to bed. Oh, that's nice. Because I like button down, I like what I love Lucy, what Lucy and Desi would wear to bed. Oh, that's nice. I like button down, like, I like what I love Lucy, what Lucy and Desi would wear to bed.

Me too! Yes, me too! I would never wear what Charlotte wears. Yeah, totally, totally. I mean, this thing, oh my God. I mean, I don't know who made it. I think it was like, not a great designer. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings,

but it was something like, you know when Charlotte, when we go to Atlantic City and I get that tacky dress in the store, in the casino, it was like that. Like when Charlotte is trying to be sexy or what she thinks of as sexy and it's way outside her normal purview, that's what this see-through thing is. And I remember being scared out of my wits

to film that scene and to walk out in this outfit and very stressed about what underwear to wear underneath it. Well, of course. Because it is so see-through. I was like calling my manager like what should I do? You can kind of see my breasts. Like, oh, I was scared out of my mind. So I mean I look at it now and I'm like that's not really so much of a thing. But at the time, it seemed like it. Yeah. No, Charlotte's 90s, and I have to give credit here.

When our producer emailed me and said, you need to choose your top 10 favorite Carrie and Charlotte looks, I immediately took out the bat phone to two of my best friends who are encyclopedic academics of the SATC canon. And immediately, my friend Perrin sent me like Charlotte's 90s, like 14 images. And we, yeah. So that was something I did love,

but I'm not sure I would have thought of that without that. Tell her thank you. Tell her thank you. I appreciate it. There's this one from first season, which I think is just like a department store. Possibly, possibly like, not La Perla because we couldn't afford it, but maybe like Notori.

We did wear a fair amount of Notori. And then we get into the vintage look, which at a certain point in the Trey relationship, I do actually have vintage, because I was trying to pretend that I was Elizabeth Taylor and Cat on a Hot Tin Roof. Right. Which works for so many different ways.

And then is a foreshadowing of the King Charles Spaniel. 100%. 100% all connected, yes. And then we did discuss the beautiful Westwood. Sarah has such a great history of wearing Westwood and I think wears it so, so beautifully. I always love it so, so beautifully. I always love it, any Westwood time, oh my God, then we have this look. Now this would be one of the times

where I would have been like, oh, you know, like I have a very Charlotte type reaction, but this woman can pull it off. These hot pants with this newsboy cap and the baguette, it's just one of those ur-cary looks where you're like, this is ridiculous and just exactly what we want. 100 percent. 100 percent.

And also, I don't think you have it in here, but do you remember the tiny green skirt with the little fluff frill on the back? Yes. It had a little tail, like a little feather. I was really concerned. I was like, oh God, she's going to be on the streets in that? She gonna be okay? No wait, I have a really good memory of this Miranda look. This Miranda look is, you know,

a one of the Halloween costumes that people sometimes wear, which I love. And this is when I think we're in Bryant Park, the actual park, and she's wearing this and Sarah Jessica is wearing basically a Heidi outfit. Oh yes, it's true. Do you remember? Yes.

And she has like pink cheeks, and she might have pretend freckles even. Oh my God. Like she's so ahead of her time, and I'm wearing like a bucket hat, which is not my favorite, but Pat was really into hats. Like Pat would have a theme and like a vision, and then we would all be part of it,

and you just had to kind of like live through it. And I remember having one of the, like a little Charlotte type speech, like where I go on some kind of a rant, and I had Cynthia in this one outfit on one side, and Sarah in the Heidi on the other side, and I remember just breaking into giggles. Like I just couldn't focus, I just was like,

I don't know where to look, I'm just gonna look at Kim, because I don't know where to look, it makes me laugh. But you know, this is what the show is great at, is just being creative and thinking outside the box. And I give so much credit to Pat and to our directors and executive producers for allowing us to do so. Truly.

Right, because I mean, it all worked in the end and it was part of the fun, right? Completely. Yeah. Okay, here we have Sarah in the Dior by Galeano. Everyone talks about this dress, but I do feel like it's taken on a new life of its own with Jenna Ortega wore it.

And I just have to say, you know, as someone who works in print media, print is not dead. It's on that dress. Thank God, right? Thank God. And I remember this at the time, this was a special dress for a special scene where they really planned ahead.

And there's so much thought that Sarah, Jessica, Pat and Molly would put into kind of those special moments. And this dress might've come in early and then they save it. They kind of try to hide it, but they always need things for shoots. So then they have to let it go. And then they're like, oh, I hope they send the DR dress back.

Oh, I hope they send the DR dress back. And let us keep it long enough. And then when Jenna Ortega wore it, it was incredible. And we discussed this to somebody on our recent press tour. And Sarah Jessica was very much a fan, which was so nice. We have all the important things except for the hat. Do you want to talk about the hat really briefly?

Sure. Ha ha ha ha. I love this hat because I'm very into sun protection. And I respect that Carrie leaned into Gingham for this. Good call. I feel the same way and it goes so perfectly with the Ozzy Clark. I think that people are so strange that they want to criticize this. Yes.

I find that wacky. Like, why not? No, it's so joyful. Let the woman wear what she wants, right? Yes. It's fun. I agree. I agree. I'm happy that you like it. You have been such a joy, Chloe.

Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Kristen. This was such a treat. Okay, bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Join iHeartRadio and Sarah Spain in celebrating the one year anniversary of iHeart Women's Sports. With powerful interviews and insider analysis, our shows have connected fans with the heart of women's sports.

In just one year, the network has launched 15 shows and built a community united by passion. Podcasts that amplify the voices of women in sports. Thank you for supporting iHeart Women's Sports and our founding sponsors, Elf Beauty, Capital One, and Novartis. Just open the free iHeart app and search iHeart Women's Sports to listen now. This summer on the X-Ray Vision podcast, we're diving deep into the summer's biggest movies from Jurassic World Rebirth to Fantastic Four.

Plus, we'll talk to the stars of Superman. Is there a part of the Lois Lane costume that helped you feel like you were really stepping into her? It was the necklace for me. Nobody's really asked that before, so thank you. Listen to X-Ray Vision on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart radio app, search X-Ray Vision, and listen now. So what happened at Chappaquiddick?

Well, it really depends on who you talk to. There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond. And left a woman behind to drown. Chappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control. Every week we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family.

Listen to United States of Kennedy's on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Bob Crawford, host of American History Hotline, a different type of podcast. You, the listener, ask the questions. Did George Washington really cut down a cherry tree? Were JFK and Marilyn Monroe having an affair? And I find the this time I'm telling you the story of

Kelly Harnett. Kelly spent over a decade in prison for a murder she says she didn't commit. As she fought for her freedom, she taught herself the law. He goes, oh God, Harnett, jailhouse lawyer. And became a beacon of hope for the women locked up alongside her. You're supposed to have faith in God, but I had nothing but faith in her. I think I was put here to save souls by getting people out of prison. The Girlfriends, Jailhouse Lawyer.

Listen on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.