Are You A Charlotte? - The Write Stuff with Jenny Bicks... (S1 E8 "Three's A Crowd")

Episode Date: March 31, 2025

It's a tale as old as time, is it three's company or three's a crowd? The incredibly talented, Emmy-winning writer Jenny Bicks joins Kristin to talk in detail about her first episode of Sex and the City. Is it edgy, is it funny, is it sexy…Or is it just so awkward? Kristin opens up to Jenny and describes the ups and down and emotional roller coaster in regards to this episode.  Do good things come in threes?                                                           Plus, Jenny Bicks reveals that she is a big BIG supporter as we discover that Mr. Big was previously married?  Does Carrie go too far in tracking down the ex Mrs. Big?Note: Spoiler Alert about Big in this episode. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey all you women's hoops fans, and folks who just don't know yet that they're women's hoops fans. We've got a big week over at Good Game with Sarah Spayne as we near the end of one of the most exciting women's college basketball seasons ever. The most parody we've seen in years, with games coming down to the wire and everyone wondering which team will be crowned national champions this weekend in Tampa. Listen to Good Game with Sarah Spayne on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

My husband cheated on me with two women. He wants to stay together because he has cancer. Should I stay? Okay Sam, that has to be the craziest story in OK Storytime podcast history. Well John, that's because it's dump of week and this user writes, last week we had an attempted break-in.

I asked my husband who was supposed to be at his mom's to come over and change the locks, but his mom told me he wasn't with her. And it took me less than an hour to find the first two women he was cheating on me with. Did you leave him? Well, to find out how this story ends, follow the OK Storytime podcast on the iHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2020, a group of young women found themselves in an AI-fuelled nightmare. Someone was posting photos. It was just me naked. Well, not me, but me with someone else's body parts. This is Levertown, a new podcast from iHeart Podcasts, Bloomberg and Kaleidoscope, about the rise of deepfake pornography and the battle to stop it.

Listen to Levertown on Bloomberg's Big Take podcast. Find it on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, I'm Laura, host of the podcast, Courtside with Laura Corenti, a masterclass case study of the business of women's sports. I'll be chatting with leaders like tennis icon, Alana Kloss.

I don't do what I do only for women. I do it for everyone. And I want the whole market. And innovators like Jenny Nguyen. I would say 50% of the people that come visit the Sports Bra aren't sports fans. They come to be in community. They come to be part of this culture. Courtside with Laura Karenty

is an iHeart Women's Sports Production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. Listen to Courtside with Laura Karenty on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Have you ever wondered if your pet is lying to you?

Why is my cat not here? Am I going and she's eating my lunch? Or if hypnotism is real, you will use a suggestion in order to enhance your cognitive controls. But what's inside a black hole? Black holes could be a consequence of the way that we understand the universe. Well, we have answers for you in the new iHeart original podcast, Sighing Stuff.

Join me, or Hitcham, as we answer questions about animals, space, our brains, and our bodies. So give yourself permission to be a science geek and listen to Sighing Stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? We are back to Are You a Charlotte? with an incredible guest, the one and only Jenny Baxey! Thank you for having me! It's my pleasure. We're going to re-watch your very first episode that you wrote, For Sex and the City.

It is episode 108, Three's a Crowd, an incredible episode written by you, directed by the also incredible Nicole Hollifcener. So I love this episode. I really didn't have a lot of memories of this episode. I was like, what on earth is happening? It's a bold first episode, Jenny. It's bold.

It is. It was bold, and yet it was, you know, it was of the time. Oh my God, so of the time. And I mean, we did touch on this briefly amongst ourselves, but to me, it's the first time that the theme is really run through all the characters in such a great, great way. Yeah, it's such a magical thing when you find

kind of a sexual thing that also ties into exactly what your characters might be going through at the moment. And we had, you know, Carrie and Big were at this point in their relationship where they were getting more serious and suddenly she learns about the ex-wife, the other third person. Right. And so we're dealing with that at the same time

that Charlotte is dealing with the fact that the man that she's bedding, or he's bedding her, we would never have used words like that, by the way, bedding, wants to have a threesome. That's his fantasy. Right. And she's thinking about it. I know it, that crazy Charlotte, oh my god.

And also just side note, we have Lisa Emory. Right. Incredible. Incredible. Who you all might know from Ozark, where she played a very terrifying character. Yes. And in our episode here, she's a sweet wife who gets cheated on.

I know, she gets cuckolded. And you feel so bad for her, but then she's very open and she's like, maybe if this would keep my husband happy, we can have a threesome. And Samantha is not having it. She's not having it. No.

She's the guest star. She's the guest star. So that, this is a big part of the theme that I want to talk about. We can go scene by scene, but also just thematically, when I was watching it, because I didn't remember a lot of it, right? Like I told you already,

but when Charlotte does seem like she might be going to have a threesome with these people in a very romantic and beautifully lit scene, I had a panic when I was watching this in my bed last night thinking, why don't I remember kissing these two people at the same time? Oh my God. What am I about to see? What are you going to do? And it was in fact a dream.

It was. It was a dream. It was like, how could I have blocked that out or whatever? Because I've in fact a dream. It was. It was a dream. I was like, how could I have blocked that out or whatever? Cause I've never had a threesome in my life. And also you had your top off. I did! How about that?

And I can 100% tell that I'm in a panic because I step very gingerly forward. Oh! Which I know I'm just trying to be right on my mark so that no body parts are showing. And then I very gingerly reach my hands out like in a really odd way and they take my hand. I can so feel the nerves radiating from me.

That takes such guts. Well, I think too, and I'm curious if you, what your thoughts are. What I remember, especially from the very beginning was that we all as a group, and I can't speak for everyone, but we didn't know what was right or wrong for us to show. Because we didn't really know what show we were on, right? And do you remember that show Dream On that was on HBO?

Where literally every episode, some random woman just shows her breasts. We didn't want to be that. We wanted to be like for women, like for women to watch from the female gaze, not like titillating, but also we are talking about sex and we didn't want to be fake. I mean, it was very awkward. It was a fine line.

Yeah. And I think what's great is because we didn't show a ton of nudity, honestly, it was true to what the show was, right? Which was, we're not real sex on HBO. We're a show that where we're talking about it, but showing a boob just for fun is not the reason people, people aren't watching it to hope to catch a sight of,

you know, full frontal nudity. Right, right, right, right. Or if they were, they were disappointed. Exactly, and so if it was appropriate for the scene, you know, then a little bit, like there was a scene in the last one I wanna say, where you see a little bit of my side movement, I'm like, oh my God, I didn't even remember this.

Oh my God, I mean, of course now you're like, it's like nothing, people show up. But the Mi'kva, which was an episode I wrote, you did it. I know. You owned it. Thank you, It was challenging, but I'll tell you what I liked about that.

And I also have, I mean, there are some times, and I said something earlier, and one of the clickbaity situation with the press these days is so stressful because you say things here, because it's so intimate, right? Like, it's just me and Jenny talking. Why would they take it out of context?

I did say something, because there were some awkward times early on, with directors, not with you guys, but sometimes in the middle of the night when everyone would have gone home who wasn't in the scene, some director would want you to do something, and even the other actresses weren't there. You could even go to them and be like, help me.

And I would go lock myself in my dressing room and call my manager back in LA and be like, help me, what do I do? The mickle, I remember remember because we had talked about it, you know, for some time and it was obviously a very, very integral part of the storyline that was a very big important storyline and because it wasn't sexual, it's much easier to have some nudity in a non-sexual way than to, and it like a spiritual way.

But the thing that I remember about that is that the director and the DP and Video Village had been set up, because the AD let it happen, I'm not gonna name right now, where I had to walk and they were smoking cigars. What? Mm-hmm. This I don't remember.

And it was the wee hours, because it was the wee wee hours, because it took forever to go down to that tile set that we'd built, right? And I went to this AD and I was like, uh, I'm trying to do something here, like without feeling self-conscious, could you possibly move all those guys? Oh my god, I'm so sorry. I know, it's crazy back then what went on, right? And this is a show where we had so much power. But we didn't have, there were no intimacy coordinators.

Exactly. Those did not exist in our business. No, no, and even in a situation where you theoretically did have so much power, that all that stuff was still able to happen, and then you had to be the bad guy and go and say like, they can't smoke their cigars literally in my eyeline. So the idea that anyone's smoking a cigar I'm pretty sure that's illegal.

Exactly, no back in the day they used to remember on the Silver Cup soundstage we'd be there all night Friday night and like it would just be like a cloud of smoke. You know Sarah was smoking because Kerry was supposed to smoke, McGann was smoking, you remember Mark McGann was smoking. I mean so many people right and? Just Smicky Smokin'. And you were just like, oh, I'm trying to see. I can't see my mark. You know what I mean? I know, the olden days, the olden days. Anyway, back to our episode. But yeah, a lot of crazy stuff went on.

Well yeah, but also I will say it was a beautifully shot. That moment was beautifully shot. Because it's in Charlotte's mind. Right. So it's perfection. It's romantic perfection. You looked beautiful in that. Thank you so much. No, I'm so happy that I did it.

Because of course at the time, you're like so stressed and stressed and stressed. Now you're like, oh my God, I should have just been running through the town with my shirt on. No. And that's what we call clickbait. I know. Ladies and gentlemen. I do sometimes think that. I do sometimes think that. I do sometimes think that.

But I remember having a lot of stress about it. No, but I do think the other thing, and Michael talks about this a lot too, is that we always wanted the sex to be almost, like we never wanted to be like, like, ooh, we're shooting a, like a soft porn, like red shoe diary kind of situation. Like this was important, the tone was important.

Right, but I will say the music choices in my episode, there was like this jazzy kind of sexy music when you're in bed with your boyfriend. I'm like, we would never have done that after season one. For sure. We would not, we would have counter pointed it more. I think that's what was confusing about being an actress in season one too,

was because we didn't really know, right? We weren't really sure what the tone was. And so we weren't really sure in the acting of it also. And then sometimes we weren't around when the others were doing their sex scenes, right? Or their romantic scenes or whatever it was. So we didn't know what they were doing. Do you know what I'm saying?

So there was like this kind of like checking in. Like, what are you guys, what do you think? What are you doing? Because like Cynthia, you know, her, she's like, I don't care, you know? But she still hasn't, she hasn't shown much or whatever. And then Kim, I think at one point already has, but it was like a kind of a funny,

she like had a, there's a humor kind of about it. I think as long as there's either like the mikveh where you're in a situation that's non-sexual, or if it's happening, it's for really good reason and you're counterpointing it with something so that it doesn't feel purient. Exactly, but that was the whole key to it and we hadn't really fully gelled on that yet.

I don't think we knew. Yeah, because also not everyone was around all the time to discuss it kind of in a thorough way. You know what I mean? You were just like, what did that one do? What happened in that scene? No one really knew, right? But when I did watch the threesome that I thought? You were just like, what did that one do? What happened to Nancy? You know, no one really knew, right? But I, when I did watch the threesome

that I thought I was gonna about to have, didn't remember. And then I was like, oh, thank God it was just a dream. But I could literally tell that I'm just like, like frozen as an actress. Like I'm just gonna take this tiny step and then nothing will show. You know what I mean? Like there won't be too much rear end

and there won't be side boob and there won't be, you know. I'm just like, ginger like... Just enough stepping in. Yes, exactly. But anyway, we digress. But I mean, there's the fun things to think about because I think that the way that it developed and the fact that all of us were there and had the same goal is why it worked out and why we felt safe eventually. Like it took a little... It's not that we felt unsafe in the beginning, we just weren't sure, right? Like we were checking in.

And we just didn't know where the lines were. Exactly. And it depended on the director what they wanted to do. You know, and sometimes that wasn't necessarily in line with what Darren and Michael wanted, you know? And then you had to call people. Yeah, like, help. Calls had to be made.

Help, help, help. Yes, okay, so I'm basically, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm meeting the guy at the benefits, all the benefits for the diseases, his name is Jack. You know, he's one of many guys in the beginning. And Charlotte's just trying to figure out if she can go with what he wants. And pretty quick, he seems like he brings up this threesome.

I mean, I guess we have the montage, so it's like, there's time has passed. And I like, this is the first time when I'm watching that I feel like Charlotte's storyline makes sense. Oh, really? Yeah. Like before there's the artist who paints her, which everyone's like, uh, she agreed to this. And for me, I mean, I could only assume, I think at the time I just really wanted someone to write a storyline for me. I mean, I could only assume, I think at the time, I just really wanted someone to write a storyline for me, right? And I was like, I'm gonna have to roll with this.

And then I also think because it's about her gallery, it's about art. So she's like, I'm gonna do what I have to do, because she thinks she's landed him as a client, he's a big deal, right? And it's safe up in the woods and his wife was there, you know what I'm saying? Right, and she likes art.

She loves art, because like when he asks her, what are your fantasies? I laughed at myself so hard. I just 100% authentically, well, I'd like to own my gallery one day. It's like I didn't mean that. I know, it's so cute. But then I also said that I want a house in Maine,

which you do have. I do have. Which I love that so much. So there you go. I love it. Did you want that at the time and not have it? You know, I did. You know, it's interesting.

So I had spent my summers growing up there. So my family had a house there, but I think I always imagined I would have my own house. Amazing. I didn't then, but now I do. Amazing. So there you go. You made it happen. Just like Charlotte, I got certain things.

I love it. I love it. Charlotte, let that dream go somewhere. Maybe Harry didn't share that dream. We there you go. Amazing, I didn't know it happened. Just like Charlotte, I got certain things. I love it. Charlotte let that dream go somewhere. Maybe Harry didn't share that dream. We don't know. Well, I guess we do know that. I think we would know if she did. I think it would come up. She found other dreams.

I'm gonna guess that Harry didn't. He probably didn't want to be in Maine. There's a lot of ticks. You know, he's got. He's not like the bugs. He doesn't like the bugs. He really, really doesn't. It's still going on.

Yeah. Okay, back to the show. He really really doesn't. It's still going on. Okay back to the show, way back. Okay so I have, I get to have the thematic storyline which is fun and and I like that there's like a beginning middle and an end and then also that there's such a great discussion. Yes I love that discussion. And I, so I need some clarity though because sometimes people say things that I'm not quite sure if I'm hearing correctly. Like basically Sam is saying, Samantha's saying,

that you don't want to be the guest star in the threesome. No, you do want to be the guest star. You do want to be the guest star, because you don't want connections. You don't want connections. You don't want to do it with like a good friend. You want to be like, you want to come in and out, enjoy it and get the hell out of it.

Right, it's so crazy that Charlotte's like, no, maybe I would want one of my friends. Right, exactly. Oh my God. But that's so Charlotte. She's like, she would feel safe that way. I know, but it's like a, it's a terrible idea. It was really so horrifying for me to think about like, what if she tried to convince me to be with a person

but this would be terrible, okay? Just terrible in so many ways. Like, oh my God. Anyway, I had a moment of fear then too, because I was like, I don't remember any of this. She's like, wait, oh, did I have a threesome with Carrie? I tried to talk her into it. Oh my God, I was mortified.

Thank God I do not. But then poor Miranda. I know. Poor Miranda, no one chooses her. I know. It's so adorable. I don't remember this at all. I know.

And I love how Cynthia played it through the episode. So brilliant. I'm going to get to the bottom of this, and I'm upset, and I'm sorry. I wasn't chosen. I know. And that's upsetting. I know.

And she's got this therapist, which, like, do we ever see this person again? I don't think we do. Oh my god. He's an older man, and he basically is like, are you asking to have person again? I don't think we do. Oh my God, he's an older man. And he basically is like, are you asking to have a threesome with me? It's so weird and funny.

And it's such a traditional looking therapy office where I'm just like, is this what a therapy office would look like in 1998 in Manhattan? Who knows? It was probably whatever set we had that we could put up two flats and some books. Totally, totally, totally. But what's inside a black hole? Black holes could be a consequence of the way that we understand the universe. Well, we have answers for you in the new iHeart Original Podcast, Science Stuff. Join me, Jorge Cham, as we tackle questions you've always wanted to know the answer to

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Hi, I'm Tia Serkar. I'm Taylor Gray. And I'm John Lee Brody. But you may also know us as Harrison Dula, Spectre 2. Tabin Renz, Spectre 5. And Ezra Bridger, Spectre 6 from Star Wars Rebels. Wait, I wasn't on Star Wars Rebels. Am I in the right place?

Absolutely. Each week, we're going to re-watch and discuss an episode from the series. And share some fun behind the scenes stories. Sometimes we'll be visited by special guests like Steve Blum, voice of Zabarelio Spectre 4, or Dante Bosco, voice of Jaiquel, and many others. Sometimes we'll even have a live way debate.

And we'll have plenty of other fun surprises and trivia too. Oh uh and me? Well I'm the lucky ghost crew Stowaway who gets to help moderate and guide the discussion each week. Kind of like how Kanan guided Ezra in the ways of the Force. You see what I did there? Nicely done John. Thanks Tia. So hang on because it's gonna be a fun ride. Cue the music! Thanks, Tia. So hang on, because it's going to be a fun ride.

Cue the music. Listen to Potter Rebellion on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Bob Pitman, chairman and CEO of iHeart Media. I'm excited to introduce a brand new season of my podcast, Math and Magic, Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing. I'm having conversations with some interesting folks across a wide range of industries to hear how they reach the top of their fields and the lessons they learned along the way that everyone can use.

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brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council. ["The Ad Council Theme"] And then I really love that scene where she finds, we're out of order, but I don't care. That's where we're following her storyline. Exactly, we're following Miranda. So when she finds the couple and they're like, no one really answers our ad, who isn't?

And they don't want to say it. Those actors are so great. They are so great. They are so great. And they're so excited to have Miranda. They're so excited that it's Miranda. And Miranda looks just radiant in every way because she's been chosen.

And the way Cynthia walks off at the end with that kind of, she flaunts it with her shoulder. She's so powerful. I mean, she was powerful from the get-go, which I know is not how she felt. But like even when she's flummoxed, like her inner strength is so apparent. And I love it so much. I don't remember that. I always loved my apparent. Oh, yeah. And I love it so much.

Yeah. Well, I don't remember that. I always loved my Miranda. Oh, beyond. Which is why I was so upset when those quizzes would come out and everyone's like, I don't like Miranda. It's like, but that's me. I know.

I felt very connected. Well, it's not the same now. Well, no. Thank God. Thank God. Right. Thank God. But that was a very hard moment.

No, it's true. I mean, people also thought Charlotte was, they would say that I was boring and that I was a prude, which is hysterical when you watch it back. You're like, hello. Hello. You were not having half the sex that Charlotte was having. No, I was definitely not. No, I don't mean you. I mean one. Nobody, but including myself. We were working all the time.

We were big time working. And I never was that, you know, Charlotte was like out there. Yeah, she was doing it. Wow. Anyway, back to Miranda. Love that storyline. Really really love it. So fun. But now help me understand at the dinner where we discussed it when Charlotte's like this guy wants to have a threesome what should I do? And so Samantha's saying it's great but don't be involved. Be the guest star. Right. And then Carrie's saying don't do it if you don't want to Be the guest star. And then Carrie's saying, don't do it if you don't want to do it. Right. And then being supportive and saying it's a thing, but you don't feel compelled to do it. Got it. And

her storyline is more about the emotional baggage of Big being married before and her not knowing it. Now can we discuss Big a little bit? Let's, please let's. Cause I, you know, and some of these things made me laugh because, you know, Charlotte was always pro-Big, as we know. Yes. And I never questioned it. I feel that I also was pro-Big. I don't remember ever having a thought that wasn't pro-Big.

I look back at it now and I'm like, why were we pro big? He is a mess. Yes, but in this, I feel like I am the original big defender. Are you? I do, well, I'll tell you why. Because what we wanted to play was, and we've all had this person in our lives at some point,

this relationship where it's very, the chemistry is there, you're drawn to this person and they're just unknowable and ungettable enough to keep you going towards them. Well, listen, you guys wrote that perfectly. Yeah. And Big, I think, had, he wanted to get closer to her at certain times, and he did, right? And so I think what we did well was portray that kind of, where you've got this banter,

you've got this kind of chemical desire to be with each other. It's not necessarily the healthiest, but it wasn't as unhealthy as I think people, it was funny, I was talking to my niece who's 24 and she said, oh, big is just a toxic bachelor. And I was like, wow. I think that too when I look back. I guess maybe he was and maybe I have a soft spot for the toxic guy. I mean, certainly at the time I was dating that kind of guy. I think we all were. So I think we were all playing into. It was normal for us.

Yeah. And it was like dashing and ungettable. Like you could almost get them and then you couldn't. But it's funny when Julie and Alisa came on, they were like, we don't get big. We don't get it. We don't understand it. We like Aidan.

And I was like, this is great. This is why this works well. We can be in the writers room having that discussion the same way the audience will feel and Carrie will feel and you all feel. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's good. That's helpful.

That's helpful. So that was your goal and you guys really, really did it because the other thing that I love about it though is that, you know, it's very much from the female perspective, right? Like we are with Carrie, right? So, you know, when Carrie's spinning, you know, I'm also spinning, like, what is going on with him? And sometimes his actions don't match

his words and she tries to get him to talk and he doesn't talk. Why doesn't he talk? Do you know what I mean? You are such a good friend. Like Charlotte was a really good friend. She still is. Yeah. I mean, she's there for these women at times where other people might not be. I mean, I think that's true for all four, really, when you think about it. I mean, sometimes Miranda does actually say to Carrie, like, that dude is toxic, what are you doing? Why are you going back?

Or whatever, you know, she's very much- She's more blunt. She's like, I'm gonna tell her what no one else is gonna tell her. And then else is going to tell her. And then Samantha is so non-judgmental, do you know what I mean? In the best, most powerful way. Not like a lack of power, like accepting in power, like I'm not going to judge you for doing this.

Exactly. You do you, I'm going to do me, this is what I do. I'm going to do it, I'm not going to apologize, which is amazing. And then Charlotte, God love her, you know? Now that I'm looking back on it too, I don't know what I was thinking at the time other than that, I wanna make this work and I wanna fit in, right?

Which is also what I think Charlotte was thinking, but me as an actor, right? I'm like, I'm gonna try to pull this off because I didn't inside feel like I could pull off what they, the three of them, who seemed so powerful to me. You know, I didn't feel that powerful. And yet she was and is. Yeah.

Really? I do. I mean, later maybe, but not in that beginning. I think, like all of those characters, she went through an evolution. And I think she does find these moments later on where she stands up and says, this is wrong. No, you're right. You're right. You're right. For sure. For sure.

It takes a while though. It takes a while. But I love the searching. And I do think that that is really important. And there was a like later on when she gets so didactic, right? And like, trace it, you know, she can get lost in her fantasy, you know, which I think is obviously so relatable. But my question in terms of Carrie and Big, because we've got Carrie, she's obviously so brilliant, so amazing, got so much going on, right?

But then like, you know, even with Valley of the 20 something guys, you know, she's just like, I don't know, I need to be kissed, you know? She goes that weird hole in the wall bar, you're just like, where are we filming? What is this? It goes, that weird hole in the wall bar, you're just like, where are we filming? What is this? It was for sure a hole in the wall bar. I mean, it's insane.

Like, I don't even think those places exist anymore, right? And then she goes, I mean, who wouldn't want to kiss Timothy Olyphant? He's adorable, right? And then she goes and then she wakes up and there's no toilet paper and we know what happens. And then Big is still there. And the thing that I do see about Big,

and definitely like the Justin Theroux character, comes after that. And he's like kind of ick, but he's Justin Theroux, so he's kind of like it, but he's also kind of ick, right? But she's like, ah, he's got his arms around me, and you're very weird, and you went on a date with that woman. That's the episode before this. But then she ends up giving Big another chance every time, right?

She tries to get him to communicate. He doesn't really communicate, but he also tries. Like, he shows up to the park in the middle of the night in the last episode. And then, this time, he just very blithely says, you know, oh yeah, I was married before. And you can see her just like, huh? Like, to her, this kind of stuff is super important.

Information is very important. And the last episode, too, is when they go to that party and that girl kisses him and is like, you've got my passport! And then the other guy introduces Carrie Eve with my another name oh you must be Julia or whatever and she's like you know yeah we don't we big never says what he's actually doing I will say this though tell me it was the 90s it was a it was a longish time ago now. And I think a lot has happened with how men communicate now. You do?

I do. I think there's much more pressure. And I think men have risen, a lot of guys have risen to, younger guys, have risen to the occasion and know that they need to be communicative with women. But I would say back then, I didn't know that many men, certainly that I was dating or that I knew

who would want to have a real conversation about the relationship. Because that would have been like, what, why do you want to talk so, like it was still a time where men saying less was sexy and not withholding. Now we all learned that was withholding, but at the time men weren't,

you weren't having those kinds of conversations. I never had any of the thoughts that I'm having now then. And so that helps explain that. Yeah. Like I was just like, of course she would want to be with him because he has so much going on and he's intelligent and successful and she is intelligent and successful

and she could do the crossword puzzle that he's doing. You know what I'm saying? Like there were certain things that I could definitely understand, right? And obviously the chemistry, obviously. But I also feel like Sarah Jessica has chemistry with like every man that you guys put in front of her. But he made her feel something different.

For sure, it was different. She felt girly and she felt off kilter, which I think for some women like that. That's a good point. They like that because it makes them feel like, oh, this is different. I don't, I don't know. What is this? Right. I don't want to be in charge all the time. I want this guy to. That's so good. Now that's not necessarily healthy. Right, but that's a good point. But she did end up marrying him. So, you know. Much later, after many chapters. But yes. And they also, I feel too if I look at the whole thing

and I mean we'll see as we go, right? But as much, and this is what's so funny looking back at the first season, she tries so hard to get him to communicate. I mean so hard. And he doesn't not but he also doesn't fully communicate.

Like at the end of the episode before this, and she says, I just want to stand still with you. And he doesn't really answer her, but he puts his arm around her and stay, yes. And that's what I think you have to look at is, he's not a talker. He's a doer. And look, Aiden was there for her, talked to her, and it wasn't right.

Because he didn't really get her. Right. And I do think. You remember the engagement ring, right? Yeah, I mean that was such a great, that was a great episode. So great. And kind of a great thematically, like, oh my god you didn't get me. You've never gotten me. Right. And I do think in some ways Big Goddard, he just wasn't communicating. Right, he wasn't skilled in that way. But he was a doer. This is good, Jenny, this is helping me.

I'm not saying anyone should be with a Mr. Pick, I'm just telling you our thought process. And I mean, I do think it's important to think about the timing, and that's why it's interesting to do this rewatch now. Because so many things have changed and so many things haven't changed, right? So like even for myself, and obviously I was much, much younger then, right?

So I never had any of these thoughts then. I would read the script, I would be like, of course she wants big. Do you know what I mean? I never thought like he's withholding. Never entered my mind. You know what I mean? I don't even think we use that word in the writers, I I know, interesting. I think we just knew that he was currently a little at arm's length with her, but she liked it.

Yeah. And that's what we were playing. That's important. That's important context. Thank you, Jenny. You're so welcome. I love it. Okay, now here we go.

We've got montage of threesomes. Yes. We also stopped doing montages soon after that. I know. Yo, we've got montage of threesomes. Yes. We also stopped doing montages soon after that. I mean, it's so kind of funny how the different things that we did, you know, and I do remember that it like production wise, that was a challenge. Yeah. Because you had to get all these different people rounded up.

Yeah. You know what I mean? And especially as time went on with the show and the show became more popular, when the people who blessed them would come and do this, they were nervous. They were like, I'm on Sex and the City and I have one line and I have to get it right. Or I need to walk my dog from here to here.

And you feel for them. So, so funny. Okay, we have this very kind of funny storyline of Samantha sleeping with a married guy, which I also feel now would not really happen like this in a show. No. It would not really happen like this in a show. No. Because it would not really be like,

oh, ha ha, isn't that funny? Do you know what I mean? It would be like, that's gross. And he's just talking about his wife just all the time right off the bat. Yeah. Like, my wife won't do this. My, uh, uh, uh.

I mean, it's bizarre. But she doesn't care. No, she doesn't care at all. I mean, you know, it's all fair game. I know. It's super interesting. I mean, was there any pause in the writer's room about Samantha? In general about Samantha?

No, I mean, not in any big way. I mean, sometimes we would talk about storylines that weren't her, even if they were wild, she still had her morals and she still had her ego. But no, we knew she was the id, right? Like she was the one just going out there and doing it and owning it. Which was-

And you guys were just like, we're doing it and we don't care what anyone says. Yeah, I mean, there was definitely, there was pushback and blowback, not internally, but once the show started airing, and of course everyone said, well, that's not a woman, that's a gay man, right? Which is so rude.

Which is so rude, and so of the time as well, right? Like a woman who owns her sexuality doesn't exist. Therefore, this is a man and this is a gay man. Why is it a gay man? Why isn't it just a man by the way? Rude on a bunch of levels. But no, we knew she was the one we could rely on to go and enjoy life and make mistakes along the way

because of it, fall on her face because of it. But she wanted to enjoy everything that life had to offer. Which is amazing to think about. It's amazing that there just aren't, I mean, even still now, it's not a character that you see a lot of. Now I think that character would be judged more, like in a weird way.

Which is insane. Right, like it would be like, oh, what a slut, right? I don't know, I don't know. What would the young young people think they're not having as much sex as she did they're not they're this is what I hear I don't know I hear tell me to find out can you guys come on the Instagram and tell me? We will come on the Instagram We will come on the machine and put it in there Yes, because it is really interesting to think about like on the one hand I feel like it at a certain point was like, do what you're into,

feel free. But then I don't know if that really panned out. I'd like to think it made some changes. I think certainly women own their sexuality more now. Yeah, me too. But I'm not sure that people are literally having as much sex, male or female. I mean, what happened with the apps? Wasn't the app supposed to help you

if that's what you wanted? Yes, and I think they do. Okay. But I don't think people are as sexual. Feeling so free. Yeah. Feeling so free with their sexuality. Feeling so free or so, yeah.

But this is something that we should investigate. I think we should investigate. We should get a big magnifying glass and walk around like Hercule Perot. Yes, like how much sex are you having? We have a question on my sex gravity. We have questions. Right into Kristen Letternhoe.

No, should we ask Esther Perel? I love Esther Perel. I do. Let's ask her. Right. You should have her on the show. We should have her on the show. We should ask her.

Done. Oh my God, that would be amazing. Okay, cool. Let's keep going with our rewatch. Okay, the therapy, we already touched on this. That guy's adorable. Adorable. Also, it's just very funny to me that Miranda out of all of us is the one in therapy. Yeah, it's hysterical. She was, you know, trying to figure it out. I know we all were in our own way. We all were right and then carry through the column. And

ultimately you were each other's therapist for good or bad. Exactly. I exactly. I mean, in the beginning, Charlotte's maybe, she just asked questions like, should I do this, should I not do this? Carrie did go to therapy though, when she met Bon Jovi. What? You probably don't remember this episode I wrote, Games People Play. Games People Play.

She went, she met him in the waiting room of her therapist. Why did she go to therapy? She needed some therapy. She needed to talk some stuff through. Well, for sure. Yeah. I don't remember this.

Oh my God. This was season two. And John Bon Jovi comes in season two? Yes. We have some wild guest stars along the way. I remember John Bon Jovi, but I would have said season six. No, I know. What on earth?

Yeah. Oh my God. I can't wait till we get to Alanis Morissette. Oh my God. How bad Alanis Morissette. I know. I had so much fun working with, like, how lucky was I to work? I just remember coming to watch that day.

Yeah. Because Sarah was so nervous. Oh my God. And I was like, Alanis Morissette is here. But I don't think I talked to her. I was too scared. I was. I was too scared.

She was a very big deal for don't think I talked to her. I was too scared. I was, I was too scared. She was a very big deal for us. Big deal. I mean, huge deal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Have you ever wondered if your pet is lying to you?

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brought to you by AARP and the Ad Council. by AARP and the Ad Council. Okay, let's talk about Big and the wife, ex-wife. Yeah. Let's talk about this, because it's super interesting to me and I did not really remember this so much. And it's something we, you know, we introduce it and then we never bring her up again.

I know. Which is kind of fascinating. It's kind of nuts. And that also rewatching, I remember that not only did he not say he had an ex-wife, but the ex-wife doesn't tell Carrie that she knows that Carrie's dating Big. There's a lot of secrecy.

Which was really interesting because she seems so kind of open and- But she says to her at the lunch that they have after Carrie's pitched her book that she doesn't actually have. She says, are at the lunch that they have after Keri's pitched her book that she doesn't actually have. Right. She says, are you seeing anyone?

And I did think that that actress, Noelle, I believe is her name, played it so well because I thought, does she know? Right. Does she know? And she did. But she played it off. Yep. Now, what do you think in terms of my producers were like, why is Big still friends with his ex-wife?

And I was like, why wouldn't they be, right? They could be friends. Right. Also because he cheated on her, but he kind of is who he is in that way that we were talking about, right? Like, I mean, it doesn't shock me, especially because they say it was a long time ago. So that means like in his 20s or something, right?

And then she's so beautiful and accomplished. I mean, it makes so much sense in so many ways, especially because we know who he's also gonna marry. And the plaque she hasn't hung yet, just special Olympics, like what can't she do? And we know he's gonna marry another very beautiful brunette. You know what I mean? So it tracks.

Right, it tracks. But I loved the interplay between Carrie and the ex-wife in terms of they love each other. They have, they hit it off. Yeah. You know, and I love Carrie. I mean, she does kind of have like a, how to put it, it's like kind of manipulative. I don't know how to put it, but like it reminded me also in, and just like that after Big has died.

Sorry if I'm giving anything away to any listeners right now. You just did it. I'm pretty sure you know, but in case you don't, later on, Big dies. But... Oh, spoiler alert. It's terrible, I'm really sorry. I'm really sorry. We'll have to put like a spoiler alert,

but do you remember when Carrie wants to go find Natasha, Big's other ex-wife, and secretly goes down there, we're all with her to support her. It reminded me so much of that. It's so fascinating how specific the characters are. I don't know if Michael Patrick was thinking back or not thinking back. Like are they, is it conscious decisions? Like it's like when I sleep with that Hasidic Jewish artist. Yes. What a, what a precursor. It was a total precursor. Right? But did we know that? I don't think we thought of that as a precursor.

Like, I'd love to say we were that smart that we were like, Hey, let's bring it back around. I just think the DNA of the characters were like specific and alive. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? And still are in a really odd way. It's fascinating to me. Anyway, I loved this ex-wife

because I love the dynamic between the two women, Carrie and the ex-wife. And then I love that when Carrie goes back to him and she doesn't really tell him and he's like, what's wrong? Which is actually pretty insightful of him, right? And then she says, you know, and then he didn't, no, she doesn't even say, he goes,

I didn't say about my ex-wife because it was a long time ago. And then she tries, you know, and then he didn't, no, she doesn't even say, he goes, I didn't say about my ex-wife because it was a long time ago. And then she tries to get more info when he's like kind of halfway giving it as he does. And then they get in bed and the ex-wife is there and Carrie says her voiceover about, you know. You're never alone in the bed because there's always someone that's been there before you. Exactly.

Which is true. Good writing, Jenny. Oh my God, isn't that brilliant writing? Yes, it really is. No, you know what? It was a theme that worked really well because it really was about how when you're in your 30s, it's not your first relationship. It's not your first time at the rodeo.

They're gonna be, people are coming with their baggage and some of that baggage can be an ex-wife or God knows what else. And you have to, there's always gonna be someone there before you. You're not the first in. No. And I mean, thank God really.

Thank God. You don't wanna be the first. You don't. It's a lot of work. It's a lot of work. But then there's a lot of work to D, take all the bullshit out. I mean, especially if they're not working on it.

I think that's the thing. But she doesn't really say that. Cause I mean, she's obviously, Carrie's also not that worked out herself. That's what I was gonna say. I would argue too, maybe this is incendiary to say, I think Carrie is a little withholding herself. Like I think with Big, like I don't think she wants to show

how much she's falling for him. I don't think she wants, I think she's trying to be, I'm cool, I'm hip, I'm writing this column. That's what I see her do in the first couple, right? Like she, like, especially with the Justin Theroux character, you know, she doesn't, she sees him on this date, which I think totally doesn't make sense. I'm with Carrie on that, like, right?

They've had this like incredible eight days together. She hasn't even talked to us, her friends. And then she goes out with us on the first night, she doesn't have him and there he is with a woman. I would be way mad and very confused. And confused. But then he does his big thing, and she's like, oh, I'm going to a party.

You know what I'm saying? And then she calls him from the party on the landline, which is also hysterical. And Justin throws. She's like, he's wrapping his arms around me. I mean, she definitely plays the game. Yeah, she had some learning to do as well. Of course, which I get.

I mean, I get it in terms of she's doing the best that she can do, you know, and she's obviously drawn to him and doesn't really know what else to do. She does try, you know, she'll try and he'll like evade. So then she does that. I get it. I get it. You know, what are you going to do? You know, you'll try and he'll like evade. So then she does that. I get it, I get it. You know, what are you gonna do? You know? You try your best. Yeah.

And they are kind of well matched in that way. In that way, I think they are. I get what you're saying. And they grew together. I get, well, that's for sure. Speaking of landlines, how about the flip phone that Ken, the married guy has in that scene on the street? Oh, it's beyond, it's beyond.

I mean, that was a big deal to have a flip phone. Oh my God. I think I had a flip phone then. I had 100% had a flip phone. And we were so proud of that. Oh, look at these big, they were the size of bricks. They were massive. But it was cool.

But we had flip phones. It was cool to own them. But yeah, no, Big has the, the, the, the, the corny phone. The car phone. It's a joy every time he takes that thing out. Oh my God. I can't believe it was so long ago. We never thought the show would be watched now.

If we did, a lot of things might be different, but. But I mean, how could we have done it differently? We couldn't have known. We didn't have a time machine. No, we didn't know. That's the joy. That's the great thing about film. And also just, it gives a record of like,

this is what we were living with you guys back then. There was no texting. There was no sexting. There was guys back then. There was no texting, there was no sexting, there was no, no, there were no apps. You had to go find a landline at the club. That's why people could miss Carrie's birthday altogether. That's true, that's so true, oh my God, yes. Okay, back to this thing.

What am I supposed to talk about that I haven't talked about? We didn't talk about the incredible Lisa Emory. Lisa Emory, unbelievable. Oh my God. She is such an amazing actress. Such an amazing actress. But what she did with that, I mean, and by the way, that's a very short, like she has very little to get across who she is and what she wants. And it's all there.

She does it so brilliantly. I know. She's not, she's going to fight for her husband. It's so true. She's going to have a threesome with Samantha if that's what she has to do. If it has to be. I remember a few years later, we were still doing the show and we ran into her,

Syn and I ran into her downtown and she talked to us, but she had her regular blonde hair. And I was like, who was that person? And she was like, she was on the show, you don't remember? And I'm like, no, I don't remember. She had the red hair. She was so red hair, so Miranda red, by the way.

So Miranda red, interesting. And. So Miranda red. Yeah. Interesting. And then when Ozark came out, of course, I had just such a joy watching her and getting her to really have just such an amazing and terrifying role. A terrifying role. Terrifying role.

And by the way, kind of a terrifying as the wife. She was a little terrifying, but also sad. Sad. She's so good. And I think she'd done a play with Sin by that time in between there. Anyway, she's been in our lives in a lovely way. One of those people where they're just such a great actor that you're glad that they get a part that they can actually like do other stuff. Yeah, totally. But it's so funny to see her back in the day with us in a red wig and the ore hair color. I know, but she really, she makes that whole thing live. But that husband, I'm just like, oh my God. He was the least interesting of any of them.

They all should have just said, forget you, let's go have coffee. 100%. Like you're like, why does anyone want to fight with this dude? So sorry if I'm offending anybody right now. Okay, then we get to the crazy masquerade ball. What on earth? Wow.

I mean. So much to unpack there. I don't even know where to start. Also, I like it's a masquerade ball. What on earth? Wow. I mean. So much to unpack there. I don't even know where to start. Also, I like it's a masquerade ball, but like really they're just little masks that you pick up and put on your face. This was our budget. And we're just really on a staircase.

And you're just on a staircase. Yeah, there's a staircase and then like a weird coat room. That's very strange. And again, then suddenly there's a little janky bedroom upstairs. I know it. Like that's an awful, awful. No, it's sad, but I'm gonna apparently

have a threesome in that room. You are gonna have a threesome and then you don't. And you do rewatching it. What you did in that moment is, I would like to say one of the first moments where I knew you could really do comedy was the moment where you sit down between them and they shove you slowly off the bed,

not only do you land on the floor, you make a decision to grab your mask and walk out. It's not just, it's like, I have some dignity and I am taking my mask and leaving. I'm glad that that's how you perceive that. I am so confused when I was rewatching that because A, don't remember it, right? B, what is actually happening?

Like, I don't understand exactly, like, is it the idea that people say they want threesomes, but they really just want to have sex with someone else? Well, that's what we were playing in that scene. Okay, okay, okay. That is not, I'm not, no judgment on those who have threesomes, I don't know what they're thinking but in that case it was This gal comes up and then is kind of like I want to get screwed by this guy

Got it or and I don't even know if it's that much as much as she leans and start kissing him It gets more it gets stronger right and then includes me and then suddenly you are in this case Miranda you are, in this case, Miranda. You are shoved to the floor. Which is just so charlotte-y relatable. So funny, the way you, the choices you made to make it, it was... I'm like, are my shoes still on my feet? That's what I'm thinking when I'm watching this.

Those are my shoes, so I can't miss them. And they actually were, because I was like, how am I going to get up? I'm thinking just as an actress, because also I think I was worried about my skirt pulling up. Right, right. Turned me, like, I was like, there's a lot going on. Weird thoughts when I rewatch myself, right? Like, is my skirt going to pull up?

Are you going to see my Spanx? Like, what's happening? Were Spanx invented yet? I'm not sure. Spanx. I know, I don't even know. But I have pantyhose on. We, Pat had not eradicated the pantyhose yet. You had pantyhose.

Which is very funny. Yes. Because that's coming. Like, there's certain things that I think about. But it's the 90s. It's the 90s, but like, Pat, you know, I pantyhose yet, which is very funny, because that's coming. Like there's certain things that I think about. It's the 90s, but like Pat, you know, I remember when Pat was like, no one will wear hose. And we were like, what? It's a very Pat impression. I know, thank you, it was close.

It wasn't fully, but it was close. But I remember there was like strange elements, and this is probably something I shouldn't say, there were strange cult type elements about being in that cast, right? Where like, there were some rules. No scrunchies, no banana clips. I'll never forget.

I still can't, when people wear banana clips, I- I have one at home in my bathroom and every time I reach for it- Do you feel ashamed every time you reach for it even though you're alone? And I put it up to wash my hands, and I'm like, no banana clips, no one's gonna see me. And in my bathroom.

But also like, the little things, and they come slowly, they weren't all in the beginning, right? But like, no scrunchies, no banana clips, no hose, unless they were fishnets. We went through a whole fishnet phase, and if you could find double fishnets, that was great. And if you could find nude double fishnets, even better. Even better.

Right? And then there was a heel height situation which it definitely takes me a while to get on board with all the way to the widower episode when she got me my first pair of like 105 millimeter Manolos. But it took that long for me to be able to like functionally walk in the things. And guess what? I can't walk in now. All of those Manolos, all of them.

Listen. I mean, bless all of us. We're still trying. We're doing it, but it is not easy now. No, it's true. But then they escalated after that to the So Cates. I just did a whole episode, Jenny, and the So Kate's, oh my God, why? Like why? I'm barely able to walk.

But they, you know, they're sexy shoes. They are, but just not to walk. No. Much less to try to act it. Not at our advanced age. Right, no, but also I'm trying to do this crazy stunt, you'll see it, and just like that. Well, I'm looking forward to it.

I got a stunt, what, what, what am I thinking? Well, part of the problem is you can blame your co-star, Miss Sarah Jessica Barker, I know it. Because she could run in those things. She still can. I know, she made it look so easy. Right, I know.

So that was the thing, you were trying to live up to Sarah Jessica. So the other rules were that you always had to return borrowed clothes, because we were so worried once we did finally get anyone to lend us clothes for personal PR or for the show, if you didn't return, no one was gonna lend them again. And we really relied on that once we got it going.

So like, I know other actors who are like, what do you mean? You know, just keep it. I'm like, no, you don't do that. You don't. I mean, there's other rules I can't think of right now, but like slowly the rules and the, oh, you only wore Cosa Bella G strings, right?

Like so manystrings, right? Like so many rules, right? Don't we make a joke in one of these episodes about Miranda doesn't even want to wear a thong or something? I was like, oh my God, the Cosa Bellas had not taken over yet. In the coffee shop scene, she said, you can't be in a threesome, you won't even wear a thong. And you know what's funny is hearing that again, I thought, were we even wearing thongs back? I guess we were.

Like it was the beginning of it. It was the beginning. Darren gave us all thongs. This is gonna come out wrong again. Oh boy. I can't wait. Do it, do it, do it. Darren's star gave you all thongs.

Not Michael, he did not give Michael thongs. But all the ladies, which were actually would have only been at that time. Because I don't think it was this, it was season two. Cindy and I were gifted, yeah, Cose Bella Thongs. That was the thing, man. You had to. You know, they were expensive. They were, I remember. They might have been La Perla.

La Perla is very expensive. Very expensive. Very expensive. Very nice. Very nice. That's what we would wear if we had like a fancy laundry. We'd try to get a La Perla bra. I mean, we could go down the list of like the approved brands and the not approved and you know what I mean?

Like it was a lot. It was a lot, man. You couldn't wear, you know, you couldn't, didn't matter how cold you were, there's not gonna be a functional coat. It was eternal spring. It was eternal spring. No matter what.

And you gals went through it. I mean, that, it was, there were nights. There's a couple scenes I've seen so far where we're like, you know. And you could see your, you could see your breath. Exactly, but you had to somehow make it work. It's before we could afford to take it out with CGI. You know, you're seeing people's breath

and you're standing there in a cute sundress. I know, so crazy, so crazy. Come on. Have you ever wondered if your pet is lying to you? Why is my cat not here? And I go in and she's eating my lunch. Or if hypnotism is real? You will use this suggestion in order to enhance your cognitive control.

What's inside a black hole? Black holes could be a consequence of the way that we understand the universe. Well, we have answers for you in the new iHeart original podcast, Science Stuff. Join me, Jorge Cham, as we tackle questions you've always wanted to know the answer to about animals, space, our brains, and our bodies. Questions like, can you survive being cryogenically frozen? This is experimental. This means never work for you. What's a quantum computer?

It's not just a faster computer. It performs in a fundamentally different way. Do you really have to wait 30 minutes after eating before you can go swimming? It's not really a safety issue. It's more of a comfort issue. We'll talk to experts, break it down, and give you easy to understand explanations to fascinating scientific questions. So give yourself permission to be a science geek and listen to science stuff on the iHeart Video app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Pod of Rebellion, our new Star Wars Rebels Rewatch podcast. I'm Vanessa Marshall. Hi, I'm Tia Sircar. I'm Taylor Gray. And I'm John Lee Brody.

But you may also know us as Harrison Dula, Spectre Two. Tabin Wren, Spectre Five. And Ezra Bridger, Spectre Six from Star Wars Rebels. Wait, I wasn't on Star Wars Rebels. Am I in the right place? Absolutely. Each week we're going to rewatch and discuss an episode from the series. And share some fun behind the scenes stories.

Sometimes we'll be visited by special guests like Steve Blum, voices Zabarelio, Spectre Four, or Dante Bosco, voice of Jai Kell, and many others. Sometimes we'll even have by special guests like Steve Blum, voice of Zabarelio Spectre 4, or Dante Bosco, voice of Jaiquel, and many others. Sometimes we'll even have a lively debate. And we'll have plenty of other fun surprises and trivia too. Oh, and me? Well, I'm the lucky ghost crew Stowaway who gets to help moderate and guide the discussion each week.

Kind of like how Kanan guided Ezra in the ways of the Force. You see what I did there? Nicely done, John. Thanks, Tia. So, hang on, because it's gonna be a fun ride. C of the force. You see what I did there? Nicely done, John. Thanks, Tia. So hang on, because it's going to be a fun ride. Cue the music!

Listen to Potter Rebellion on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Bob Pipman, Chairman and CEO of iHeart Media. I'm excited to introduce a brand new season of my podcast, Math and Magic, Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing. I'm having conversations with some interesting folks across a wide range of industries to hear how they reach the top of their fields and the lessons they learned along the way that everyone can use. I'll be joined by innovative leaders like chairman and CEO of Elf Beauty, Thereng Amin.

The way I approach risk is constantly try things and actually make it okay to fail. I'm sitting down with legendary singer-songwriter and philanthropist, Jewel. I wanted a way to do something that I loved for the rest of my life. We're also hearing how leaders brought their businesses out of unprecedented times, like Stephane Boncelle, CEO of Moderna. He becomes a human decision to decide to throw by the window your business strategy and to do what you think is the right thing for the world. Join me as we uncover innovations in data and analytics, the math, and the ever important creative spark, the magic.

Listen to Math and Magic, stories from the frontiers of marketing on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. September, 1979. Virginia's top prison band, Edge of Daybreak, is about to record their debut album, Behind Bars, in just five hours. Okay, we're rolling. One, two, three, four.

["Beyond the Bands"] I'm Jamie Petrus, music and culture writer. For the past five years, I've been talking to the band's three surviving members. They're out of prison now and in their 70s. Their past behind them. But they also have some unfinished business. The end of their break, eyes of love, was supposed to have been followed up by another album. It's a story about the liberating power of music, the American justice system, and ultimately,

second chances. Listen to Soul Incarcerated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I always had to be so good no one could ignore me. Carve my path with data and drive. But some people only see who I am on paper. The paper ceiling. The limitations from degree screens to stereotypes that are holding back over 70 million stars. Workers skilled through alternative routes

rather than a bachelor's degree. It's time for skills to speak for themselves. Find resources for breaking through barriers at tearthepapersceiling.org, brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council. ["The Weird Things About Acting"] The weird things about acting, you know, I mean, it's the most incredible job in so many ways and it's just weird technical practical things.

Sure. Like you're up all night and you're having to somehow talk really fast and be funny. Yes, and you're on camera. Yeah. This is not off camera. You are on camera. And you're walking five blocks down the village streets trying to walk and talk while people are shouting at you from cars.

Right. Well, Radioman is over here. Oh my God. Steve the paparazzi guy. Oh my God. Is that his name, Steve? Yes. Don't say his last name.

We still deal with him, Jenny. God. We just put Radioman in the show. I saw. I love Radioman. And no one told me, can I just tell you that no one told me that they had hired Radioman to act in our show? I just tell you that no one told me that they had hired Radio Man

to act in our show? They should tell you that so you're not surprised. I know. So I come out, I'm acting in the scene and I'm like, Radio Man's in the shot. I stopped acting. I'm like, wait, Radio Man's standing right here. Can't you guys see him? The camera's across the street and they were like, he's supposed to.

Do you want to explain who Radio Man is real quick? Oh yes, of course. Thank you, Jenny. You're welcome. The voice of the viewer. Radio Man is a very sweet man who originally, back in the day, rode his bike all over Manhattan into the different boroughs and looked at all of the production notices.

In New York, when you get a permit to shoot any kind of film or television show, they have to put up a production notice so people don't park on the street because we have to bring all of our equipment and trailers and whatnot, and theoretically even film on that street, right? So there would be like our show cars, they call them.

We bring in cars to put there so that we don't bump into someone's car or whatever. So Radio Man would go all over town on his bike. I do not believe that he had a home and he would make it his personal business to know where all the productions were going to be the next morning. And then he would come by and say hello.

And when he came by to say hello, he would also tell you all the other productions filming that day and where they were. And why did we call him Radio Man? Because he also had a massive radio thing. Yes. He had like a boom box, we would call it, that traveled with him on the bike.

And still does. And that he wore on a string around his neck. Oh my God, he had on a string around, yes! I don't think he does that anymore. Well, he's older. He's a little bit older, it's true, it's true. But the radio is in the shot of, and just like that. But he has a grocery cart.

We gave him a grocery cart, because the bike, I don't think, I think. No, I think he's- I don't see him on his bike anymore. I think he's aged that way. Yeah, but we do still see him. I think possibly maybe he is in a better living situation now. He's not all the time there, which is actually good because he's a little older.

And he's a fixture. He's a New York City fixture. And that's where you have to love New York, that some things don't change. So much changes. That's right. It sounds like the beginning of a voiceover. Oh, it does. I wonder, which things changed?

Everything in New York changes, but some things always stay the same. So true. There we were in the meatpacking district, where it used to smell like meat. I mean, how about the opening of that episode, where when the meatpacking district changed, and it really did.

Oh, it's nuts now. Every time I go I'm just like what? Brooklyn. I mean now everyone lives in Brooklyn. No one lives in Brooklyn. No one believes me. That's one of those the people are like why did you have a storyline about how no one visit Miranda in Brooklyn? Because no one lived in Brooklyn. Can I tell you something funny? Second season of Injust Like That we were all in Airbnb. Well I'm in Airbnbs now right? And not all of of us just me and I rented one in Dumbo and I was picturing Dumbo when we film there right and I was like what is it it's Disneyland there's lights yeah that's a Dumbo yeah I was like I'm still in

shock you know I did not know I I was like, why did no one tell me? Where are the warehouses? What happened? They're back on our show. Yes, they are. You can watch our show and remember and see these things. Right, okay, wait. The end scene of Carrie and Big.

Oh, and the wife is in the background. And the wife is in the background. I love that scene so much. The specter of the wife. I love that scene too. That scene's beautiful. And you know what I really love about that scene? It. The specter of the wife. I love that scene too. That scene's beautiful. Really pretty. And you know what I really love about that scene?

It's on a village street. Yes. But we haven't seen her stoop yet. No we have not. No, which is super interesting. It was very confusing where you all lived. Right? I know we've, you know, we always talk about this, but this is one of those, talk about

lack of continuity, but yeah, we're on the village street and it's the village the way I remember, like the way the village was. And that street is still that way. I mean, it still looks that way. Except for a lot of people. And they all have cupcakes. Right. And buses. Exactly. And things like that. But that scene for me, I loved, I loved how in some ways open Big was. That's true. Right? He's the one who says, we just went through this dinner and we talked like strangers, what's going on, right?

Good point. He calls her on it. You're so right. She would have just said, well, good night and been annoyed, but he says what's going on. And then she comes clean very quickly. And he comes clean pretty quickly. And makes a joke, which an offhand joke about,

being friends with all his ex-wives. But I do think, and then they come back together, which I know might be infuriating to people now. I didn't feel that way. No, no, I didn't feel that way. I felt more like that's like saying, you know, these are my faults. Yeah.

Which everyone's gonna have, right? But I like you now, you're the one. Exactly, he was more, I felt like he was more present and the veil was dropped a little bit. I don't know if that's the right phrase to use for such a dude. But, you know, like the wall was down a bit and he seemed kind of more like making an effort and a little bit more vulnerable.

And I love the ex-wife being behind him and then disappearing. And again, what a beautiful shot. Like on network TV, you never could have done that moment where Nicole starts to walk away and you, and then, you know, we come up on it and she keeps walking. It's like we're on it for a couple seconds longer than we need to be and we just get to do that. Yeah, it's really pretty.

We got to have that moment. Yeah, it was so pretty. And not cut because you have a commercial. Right, right, right, right. Yeah, I never think that's so true. I mean, it's funny because now, obviously with streaming, the structure of television has gone our way, but it's hard even for myself to remember

what the structure of TV proper was before us and before HBO. It was not that, it was not being able to spend that time. And then we had like free, just freedom. Yeah, and to get like specific shots. Like go tight on her tree torrents in this moment. And you know, we got to do it. Yeah, and it's beautiful.

That's a beautiful, well, Nicole, she did a great job directing that episode. She really did a beautiful job. But she always did a beautiful job. But she all did a great job too. Thank you. It was a good episode. It really was lovely. What a great, great did a great job too. Everyone was... Thank you. It was a good episode. It really was lovely.

What a great, great episode for your first episode. I was so lucky. I was so lucky to be able to do it. So lucky. Yeah. I know all of us were so lucky. And it's so beautiful to look back on. And for me, obviously, like I said, I mean, I really just remember feeling like the first season

was like a mess. Because I think I felt a mess, you know? And just like trying so hard. Like I was trying so hard to fit in, I was trying so hard to pull off these things and trying to figure out how Pat wanted to dress me and could I do it? You know what I'm saying? Like so many actor anxieties, right?

And like, how is the sex being presented and what were we doing? But also it was fun and it was fun because we were together and the relationship with all of us off camera was also growing because we were together going through this thing. And we knew that it was special. We didn't know what it would be. We didn't know what it was.

But it was just a special, special experience. And you say all these things, and what's amazing about you as a performer is it didn't come through that way. Really? You might've been feeling that way, but what it became for Charlotte was just this desire to figure things out.

That's true, that's true. And I mean, some of it too, I think, you know, like, you can't always really even separate yourself from the character you're playing, you know? And the experience that you have on a set, because as much as you are, of course, a separate individual, you're working so hard to figure that character out. And because Charlotte was really very minimal in the beginning of the show, right?

And we had to find her all together. And Michael Patrick was like, I didn't know how I was going to write for that character. I was like, oh, no, how am I going to write for that character? And obviously, he's done a bang-up job for 28 years. Yeah, I was going to say, like, it turns out. It worked out really great.

It really did. But, you know, he, on the face of it, he didn't know. Absolutely, because I actually think, and that's where I think I helped a little bit, was that was my world, that Upper East, I'd grown up on the face of it, he didn't know. Absolutely, because I actually think, and that's where I think I helped a little bit, was that was my world, that I'd grown up on the Upper East Side. I knew Charlotte. I wasn't necessarily exactly like that.

I saved the day, is really what I'm trying to say. I absolutely did not. In my mind, not knowing this part, not putting those pieces together, that's the first time that her storyline makes sense to me. Oh, well, maybe that was also just a bit of luck of the draw. But I do think I was able to shine a light on that world a little bit so that it didn't just feel like a satire.

Exactly. Because it could be. And we do satirize it in that episode to some extent. But she's not there to be satirized. She's living, breathing with a set of rules that she thought would work for her that ultimately didn't. For all the best reasons. Right, and also her rules were not that... They weren't crazy. No, they were like she's so open in a way that I didn't even remember. Like I'm like, what am I gonna do? Oh my god. Oh my god. You know, it's

entertaining. It's entertaining and interesting to watch. But I do think you're right in that all the characters were much more formed than I even realized. You know what I'm saying? Like you look back and you're like, oh yeah, we are all there. We are. But none of us knew in some ways. Like they were there and sitting there at that coffee shop,

you can see it. They're all doing exactly they. You as these characters were all living those characters, animatedly living those characters, we wouldn't know for a little bit, until we look back and go, there they were. Right, it hadn't like gelled hard, where we were like, yes, this is what we're doing,

and this is how we're doing it. But it was coming, it's coming. Super interesting, thank you for joining us, Jenny Ficks. I had so much fun. You're a joy. I could talk forever about that magic time. I'm glad we're going to have you back. You've got so many episodes coming.

Oh my God, how are we going to choose? Which ones to have you for? I don't know. What a joy though. Because you have, I mean, of course, incredible insights into what it was like to create the show. It was such a... I hope everyone gets the chance in their lives to be part of something from the beginning, to see something grow.

I know, but it's so hard. It's so hard. It's so hard. It's so rare. But so worth it. It is so worth it, but I mean, sometimes, you know, you might, and I'm sure you might've had this experience, you know, you try stuff out in our business, right?

Cause of course we're just so lucky to be able to work in our business, obviously it's a hard business. And people can seem awesome and have great ideas, and you're like, this to be able to work in our business. Obviously it's a hard business and people can seem awesome and have great ideas and you're like, this could be good. And then no, it just doesn't work. Not so much. You don't know why. You know, I've had that since then.

Never anything that I felt the way that I felt about us. You know what I'm saying? And it's hard. You also feel really bad. Like, you know that nothing's really gonna live up to it. I'm sorry for everybody I'm involved with, or have ever been involved with professionally, but you're hoping, you don't know,

it could be fun in a different way or whatever. It will always be, it'll be different, but it will never live up to what that was. And I think we all in retrospect really know that now. I mean, I think living it, we even knew it. I think we might have. We did, but now you really know it. Now we really, even knew it. I think we might've. You know that, we did. But now you really know it.

Now we really, really know it. And how lucky were we? So lucky and still so lucky. I was gonna say, you get to still, no. Charlotte is in you. I know, I know. She's still kicking around there. It's awesome.

Having threesomes. Only in her mind at this point. But that would be fun. I don't know. You never know what Michael's gonna come up with. You do not know. So get ready. I think the kids are more likely to be having a threesome though. I think so.

I think you're right. And they don't have to deal with that. But that's okay. I mean, yeah, it is a dream. It's a dream in so many ways. And it's a dream to get to talk to our fans. Yeah. On the podcast.

What a joy to get to hear from people and know that the show still lives on. I know, right? So thank you all for still watching. Yeah, thank you guys. Watching again and watching for the first time. Yes, absolutely. We love all of you guys.

And we're sorry about the flip phones. But it's funny. It's funny to look at. And even I think in the pilot, there's an even bigger one. Like it's hysterical. They start really big. There's going to be an evolution of phones. That could be like a subplot of the whole series, the evolution of the phones.

Yeah. All right. Thank you, Jenny. Hey all you women's Hoops fans, and folks who just don't know yet that they're women's Hoops fans. We've got a big week over at Good Game with Sarah Spain as we near the end of one of the most exciting women's college basketball seasons ever. The most parody we've seen in years, with games coming down to the wire and everyone wondering which team will be crowned national champions this weekend in Tampa. Listen to Good Game with Sarah Spayne on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

My husband cheated on me with two women. He wants to stay together because he has cancer. Should I stay? Okay Sam, that has to be the craziest story in OK Storytime podcast history. Well John, that's because it's dump of week and this user writes, last week we had an attempted break-in.

I asked my husband, who was supposed to be at his mom's, to come over and change the locks, but his mom told me he wasn't with her. And it took me less than an hour to find the first two women he was cheating on me with. Did you leave him? Well, to find out how this story ends, follow the OK Storytime podcast on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. In 2020, a group of young women found themselves in an AI-fueled nightmare. Someone was posting photos. It was just me naked. Well, not me, but me with someone else's body parts. This is Levertown, a new podcast from iHeart Podcasts, Bloomberg and Kaleidoscope, about the rise of deepfake pornography and the battle to stop it.

Listen to Levertown on Bloomberg's Big Take podcast. Find it on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up? I'm Laura, host of the podcast Courtside with Laura Corenti, a masterclass case study of the business of women's sports. I'll be chatting with leaders like tennis icon Alana Kloss. I don't do what I do only for women. I do it for everyone. And I want the whole market. And innovators like Jenny Nguyen.

I would say 50% of the people that come visit the Sports Bra aren't sports fans. They come to be in community. They come to be part of this culture. Quartzside with Laura Karenty is an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. Listen to Quartzside with Laura Karenty on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Have you ever wondered if your pet is lying to you? Why is my cat not here?

And I go in and she's eating my lunch. Or if hypnotism is real, you will use this suggestion in order to enhance your cognitive control. But what's inside a black hole? Black holes could be a consequence of the way that we understand the universe. Well, we have answers for you in the new iHeart original podcast, Sighin' Stuff.

Join me, or Hitcham, as we answer questions about animals, space, our brains, and our bodies. So give yourself permission to be a science geek and listen to Sighin' Stuff on the iHeart video app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.