Are You A Charlotte? - The writing is on the wall with Julie Rottenberg and Elisa Zuritsky... (S4 E15 "Change Of A Dress" )

Episode Date: June 29, 2026

“If you don’t want to marry me right now, you’ll never want to marry me…”Ouch…..Carrie and Aidan breakup …again.Writers Julie Rottenberg and Elisa Zuritsky join Kristin, to share everything about the heartbreaker they wrote.The necklace ring, the tap dancing, staying up all night to rewrite a certain scene…The breakup was originally supposed to take place somewhere else, the crazy things they made Kristin do, and the costume she still has.The writers tell all.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Say again how incredibly lucky we were that we got those scripts. I mean, beyond. Beyond, but that's because you were amazing. Okay. And this episode directed by The Incredible Alan Taylor. So good. So good. Okay.

So upsetting, like watching it again. Was it? Well, you have to remember. Like, Sarah Jessica and John Corbett really loved working together. And they were so good. So the fact that this was the end of them, or so we thought. Right. But can I also say, do you remember also when he left us when he?

In season three? No, because we weren't there. We joined season four. Do you not remember him crying at the read-through? Oh. Well, wait, season three? Sorry. Just like that.

Oh, that we were there for that. I left all the way to the closer present. I know. He left so many times. I know he left so many. And they were all very upsetting. I know, right? But I just love that he has that depth of feeling.

And he, I cannot yet talk him into being on the podcast. So I'm just going to. Yes. That's crazy. If you run into, please put in a word. Okay. I know. John, you would have the best one.

We need him. He just wants to be asked again and again. No, no, no. He's been begged for literally hours, okay? Literally hours. But what I want to say, what I want to represent here, because I feel like it's important since we don't have his own voice, is the depth of feeling that he brings to everything that he does.

And how much we love him and how much he loves us back. And how every time that we've written him out, he cries is like this sweet. So he brings such authenticity to it. I mean, he really. Yeah. And that scene will rip your heart out. By the way, that scene. Okay, so the episode, this is where Carrie and Aden, they're engaged, but she's wearing the ring around her neck.

Wait, how did that happen? I need to know. Golly, gee. Well, just to recap in case it's not on the 408 podcast, we were using this part of my life that was hard, which was that I was with someone I really loved, and I thought. I thought I wanted to be with forever, but I did not want to get married. He did want to get married. It was very upsetting and hard and something I was wrestling with for many years, as Elisa knows. I should mention he is now my husband. So it all worked out, everyone. It ends fine. But that was a moment in time when I felt very alone in feeling that way as a woman, especially, and seeing lots of pictures on TV and in the movies of women desperate to get married and the man proposing and the woman saying yes. So we decided to put all of that, I should say Michael Patrick King decided to put all of that into this relationship for Carrie. And the ring around her neck, do you remember who that was? I wish I could remember that idea. I feel like it

might have been a Michael inspiration. It was like a way of her not doing her own thing. I love Susan Sharon shows up and it's like, is that what the kids are doing? Right. Which is so funny. a fun use of her. I know. She's so good. Molly Price. Yeah, that, I have to say, Alan Taylor, oh my God, chef's kiss.

Like that whole, that whole seeing, Lisa and I were just talking about seeing Miranda and Carrie that walk and talk down the street on Broadway. And Miranda faking a sonogram because everyone's so excited. I think that was another

thing and the irony is we didn't have kids at the time. But this idea of what you're supposed to feel, like as a woman, as an expectant mother, and not feeling that. And how do you bridge the divide? Is it me? Is it society? But that walk and talk of them and then going into the wedding shop was really... Oh, that's so... I know. I was saying I I haven't watched that episode in so many years. I haven't watched the series of, in a long time. So going back and watching it, I didn't even remember. All I remembered was Carrie had an anxiety attack wearing a wedding gown. Right. Right, right, right. But I did not,

for some reason, remember that the whole thing was a joke and that Miranda was going to also try on, like, that she was going to also try on a wedding dress. Like, I completely blocked that out. I have in my mind the visual image of them both there in the wedding. Like, it was so creative. And it was. By the way, the sun was going down. We're about to lose the light. Oh, Lord.

The stress. They come into the bridal place on the Upper West Side. And how great is that? I wish I knew her name. That actress, who is the bridal shop, you know, owner. But it was getting really late and we were about to lose the light. And we had to shoot that scene. We were like, we need that scene.

It was like, could we cut the scene? could we cut to them and then they know anything. So watching it again now, it just has this great, but great energy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We got to get this scene in. Well, sometimes that helps when we got to get the scene. Totally. Yeah, it's interesting.

It's not fun to be. I'm too much of a warrior to freak me out. It's true. But something about the energy of that then enlivens the scene. Yeah. I can see that. Right. Yeah.

It's some energy. Right. But. Yeah. So that was one of these. scripts that was both, it felt very personal and painful. And another perfect example of a scene that we had set, we pictured that last fight that they have. They're in these gorgeous black and white dresses. We pictured that on a diving street down in like, so hard. Yeah, industrial. Like we just

wanted it to be. And the idea was they would look gorgeous in their fancy black and white formal wear, but they'd be on a gross street in New York just to show that dichotomy. And Alan Taylor, who directed the episode, fell in love with the fountain. Which is no longer there. It's no longer. Columbus Circle is there, but it's not a fountain anymore. Isn't that funny?

I hadn't thought about that. Is it since they built that building? It's just a monument. It's just not a fountain anymore. I think it's when they did the building, though. Maybe. to me because you know there used to not be that big yeah yeah yeah with the hotel example of where like that that was the idea it was in the script and we were like it's got to be on a

grungy street right right right he's like i want a beautiful allan was right and in the end and like kudos to michael he was like look he really wants he really wants this beautiful shot and of course now it's such an iconic right image and it's so cinematic it is so cinematic but beautiful as an actor I always think like, I can't believe they did this with the sound. Yes. Oh, yeah, that was hard. That was hard. By the way, we shot that scene the same day we did your tap dancing with Andre DeShields.

No way. We were, I remember. Oh, all I remember about that is stress man. I was very invested in the tap dancing. Yes, had you ever tap dancing before? No, no, as a child, I think I took tap dancing because my parents made me take all the things, right? But I hated it and I took it maybe just the shortest amount of period. of all the dance, right?

Because I love the others. I haven't took modern, bizarre. But then... I need to see that. There's no, there's no tape of it. Maybe a picture with a tutu or whatever. I don't know, a ballerina a lot or something. The things Kristen did for us, by the way.

Thank you. I do tap dance. I do tap dance. You what? That's how it... Okay, I just want to say so... Yes. Yes.

I love it. You've never seen Julie tap dance on set? No. That's what she does when she's like nervous and it. Yes, yes, yes. And you learned for us. Of course I did. We were so panicked whenever we saw anything that said dance.

Do you remember how we would call in the choreographers? Which is more stressful for you? Dance or Hebrew prayers? We did. Because we voiced it both of those on you. Thank God for you guys. Thank God for you guys. We don't convert Charlotte to Judaism.

They did. It was almost Kristen Davis. Yes. Oh my God. This close. You know more prayers just so you know than like many of my Jewish relatives. Oh, only in my deepest unconscious. Okay, because as soon as they're over, they just like evaporate or whatever.

Though if I hear someone else, I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, I know that one. You're like, oh, that's the candles. Yeah, I'm like, oh, yeah, I know that one. But the first time when I did it for Harry, which we haven't gotten to it, but everyone listening knows, when I first time when I had to do the whole dinner and then he's watching the game and I'm mad. Yes. That was really hard because I was mad. I remember.

Yes. I remember. And also I'd had multiple coaches then who had different opinions. We, we, we, a lot of Jews on set. We took care of that. We took care of that. Yes, because then you became my coach, thank God. Let's fire the Jew.

Yes, I remember that. And they were sure they were right. It was very stressful. I mean, I love that you had me doing that. But it was amazing. But here's amazing. I still have that outfit, though, in my closet. closet.

Oh, my God. You and the flowers. By the way, that was actually from, I had to take swimming at Columbia. I kid you not. Everyone had to take swimming. And I had, I was in flowers, a flowerers bathing suit. And I just remember the guy going, you and the flowers. I remember.

I had forgotten that until I watched this morning. And I was like, you and the flowers. You and the flowers. You're so cute. But I'll just say, like, I had, I knew that Charlotte was going to But I had forgotten the deeper story, which was that you didn't, that Charlotte didn't want to, she wanted to skip over the grief about the divorce. She was like, I just want to do, do, do, do it.

I'm just keeping myself busy and, right. I'm learning new things. Very Charlotte. Listen. And you're there for heart-wrenching knockouts. The world's biggest stage. And breathtaking triumph. What's the Davis!

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about this, but I wonder if you guys remember anything. So, you know how third season is when we get Kyle? And he was only supposed to be a short amount of time. And he was supposed to be the boring husband that no one wanted to talk to. But he was Kyle. Right. So obviously it wasn't that. Exactly.

And we wanted to keep him. Remember in the third season, we're up in Connecticut. He's playing tennis without a shirt. And I'm like, I just think we should separate back in the city. But then I also don't feel the feelings. Do what I mean? I go back. I'm at the coffee shop.

I'm like, we're separated. And rewatching it, I was like, wow, I'm not feeling the feelings. But I don't know if I'm not feeling the feelings because it's not actually done. Or, you don't know, it's a very interesting. We weren't on season three. But when you started season four, what were you? I don't want to, I don't want to like out any, a writer who was in here. But there was a writer who I think was going through some.

was going through a breakup and did not want to feel the feelings. And she just wanted to keep going. Got it. And just get back out there and date and just be happy. And why do I have to be sad about it? Interesting. I mean, it is very Charlotte. It makes perfect sense.

Yeah. Right? And I also think Charlotte's whole thing is like, if I want something, I'm going to pursue it and I'm going to do it and I'm going to make it happen. Right. So like, I don't know when I was watching it back, I was like, I don't know where the moment is. that she actually gives up, right? Because obviously her and Tray get back together, do you know what I mean? And she tries because the sex starts happening.

Thank God. And it's confusing. But she's, and then she comes with her list. At one point, do you remember this? She's like, I'm trying with my list and you're distracting me by kissing me. You know, she does her best at where she is in life at that time. Right. Yeah.

But the chemistry's there and the picture perfectness is there. Right. And she's going to keep trying. Right. And then obviously in the end, it still doesn't. So it's interesting to look back on it. I also just don't know personally, right? Because you have to always think about, well, where was I personally?

I was nowhere near all this stuff. And I remember when we start with the fertility thing, I didn't even know people who were doing this yet. Please. We like our whole thing, having gone through all that fertility, how many years later, was like, I can't believe we were, we couldn't, like, we wish we could time travel. Right. Right. Right. Yeah.

But I do think. on fans talking to me that we did it justice because people so we did have a lot of people we didn't know enough people but yes but this episode back to the table we were talking about in the other episode yeah that episode had multiple scenes that took place in the apartment next door we had read you remember we had a whole scene where aden had built he was building her shelves and he said can you reach this we wanted to make sure like the character wanted to Make sure we had a whole scene in there. After the table read, we did another, like we went back to Michaels.

We had to do, like, major surgery, like a real rethink. You remember? It was all around their breakup and how we were going to build to that and getting to, Do You Hate Me? And how just was that passive aggressive? And after that long writer's meeting, after the table read at Michael's house, We went for dinner at pasties in the meatpacking district. We're having a dinner.

We're talking more about the episode and what it's going to need. And then I remember at the end of the dinner, Michael said to us, okay, so we have a production meeting tomorrow at 9 a.m. You'll need to have a draft by then. That's hard. And we stayed up all night. Oh, night. Oh, my God.

And I remember I went back. We both lived in Brooklyn. I went back to my house at like five in the morning and was doing like the final touches. and I remember Michael, Eric, Michael's assistant was like, you have to get that in now. And of course, I was doing like last minute things on it. And I was like, just send it. It's fine.

Send it. It's so stressful. And literally came in for a production meeting and like hen slept and we were like vibrating. Oh my gosh. And then you watch it and it's like, how could it have been any other way? It's so great. All those scenes, by the way. And poor Malfi, John Malfi, the amazing John Malfi had like built the most beautiful this, that apartment that we.

And then the other crazy thing that people might not know is the end of that episode when she says she crawls into bed on the other apartment. She says that was the only night we would ever sleep on the other side of the wall, which to us meant it's over. People who saw it at HBO in Post were like, that's unclear. It sounds like they made up that that was the only night we would. That we're not in, we're not going to break the wall, but we're just going to. And now we're going to be together. So we had to add. And it was that season we broke up right after 9-11.

And they dropped those last few, those last six, I think. And we had to add a voiceover saying the next day Aiden moved out. Oh. And that was like a big debate. Were we going to add that voiceover or weren't we? And I remember like being very, like literally watching it on TV and being like, did they add that voiceover? Isn't that crazy? That is crazy.

So I'm going to take a little leap here just because we have not yet discussed Richard and Samantha at all. We literally haven't said his name yet, I don't think. Yeah. Okay. Maybe we met him. We didn't meet him. We didn't meet him when she. Yeah, James Remar.

We met him when she goes to get the job and she doesn't get the job because she slept with his architect. Right. And he's like, yeah, that's not going to work for me. And we talked about how that would never happen now, hopefully, hopefully, not in such an unapologetic way, right? Right. But so, can we talk about Samantha getting into a relationship? Like, was there stress about that? I mean, we all felt like she was ready.

Got it. Because we had the Sonia thing, which is bizarre. It just frankly, wasn't for her. No, well, it's so obviously not for her because she doesn't want to talk or anything, right? I mean, much in the way that you're saying we hopefully deepen these characters in this season, we all felt like Samantha is ready for something more. And let's see if we can do it. And first we have to find an actor who could match her.

And he was incredible James Reamer. And then we had to decide like, okay, are we doing this? Let's see what would Samantha be like in a relationship? Got it. sort of toggling between being, not wanting to be vulnerable and feeling insecure and reading this stuff about, you know, all the page six stuff. How much was that, was that, like, in my mind, when I think back to this time in our lives, right, this is when I felt at least that you literally could not be in a restaurant and have a conversation

because whatever you said would end up in the papers. Yeah. Oh, that's funny. I mean, yeah. So I almost said like, I don't know if you guys felt that way, but you probably didn't. But, you know, we had code names. Do you mean? Like, if you were just trying to talk about your day, I'm okay.

We still do. Of course we have code names. Everyone should have code names, people. I love it so much. We can't say what they are because then they're ruined. You know, it was stress. It was stress. Like, because we were such a part of New York, right?

And that was a great thing, of course. But it was so much pressure. Like, you couldn't even just say, like, we spent so many hours at work because then it would be like Kristen Davis, bitching about work. Right. Right. Do you think that went into these types of, like, sometimes I feel like it's informed by. Like the public. Yeah.

Well, I also, an early job for me was I did work at the New York Post in the mid-90s. I'm learning so much about it. Our old life. Before teaming up with Julie. Wow. And I used to, where I sat, I was on the features desk, which is mostly entertainment, but we were 10 feet away from page six reporters. So it was like a front row seat to the most incredible show.

Because back then, that was the gossip source. I mean, that was one of like three or four gossip sources, unlike today. Oh, yeah. So, yeah, so that was a fun thing for me to sort of, J.J was a composite of the reporters who worked at page six and who were just colorful and hilarious and, you know, extroverted. Got it, got it, got it, got it, got it. Pride is like love. You feel it in your heart. IR. Radio, Canada's number one streaming app for radio and podcasts, including IHARP,

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Okay, if you know me, you know this. I'm always searching for inspiration, for support, and useful tools to help maximize joy. So this podcast lets us uncover all of that together. We're going to have these meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people. Like when actress Olivia Munn shared how she overcame fierce health challenges that she never saw coming. I've gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer. And that was more difficult. There's a lot of people who understand postpartner retire.

I was not prepared for postpartum anxiety. Olympic champ Sean Johnson revealed why she had no choice but to be a gymnast. There was something about gymnastics that was intoxicating to me. It's given me a belief that we all have one of those treasures inside of us. We just have to find it. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My first guest is Paris Houghton, Shakita, Luke and Yerrin, Samira and Gracie!

I'm so excited on the bouncy bed. You have surprises? Many surprises. Welcome to Sweet 305 where the group chat comes to life. What up! It's like a way to say like, Oh la, my God, hello, my friend, oh, my brother. What a...

Look, I never have ever been to have to be nobody. Except with my kids. My kids, if you know. I'm my amante. Uff. Uf. That incredible, yeah, the telenovel.

You. You're the only person I know that loves a yellow starburst. It's lemonade. And no, there's someone that you'd like to collaborate with this person. This is Sweet 305. Listen to Sweet 305 with Lele Pons as part of my Cultura podcast network on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Everyone is a ton of excitement because their new star is Javier Cittorino Hernandez

is from next to say he's going to be Everyone sees me as a football player But before anything else, I'm human Every single day I'm still learning how to live with problems mistakes, relationships, emotions ever since I was born And I still have so many questions Where do we come from? What happens after death?

How do you deal with cancellation? Cristiano or Messi? Do aliens exist? What is love? Real Madrid or Barza From everyday and ordinary To the deep and extraordinary This isn't a normal podcast Everything here is spontaneous

Real and genuine This podcast is like a deep talk With your closest friends Where vulnerability comes out Conspiracy theories End up on the table And goals and lessons are shared All in this life

has an order Perfecto and all is just Wait-in me, I'm going to I'm going to be over We are here to connect The Chicharito And together with IHA Radio We're going to make the ordinary

Extraordinary. Stay close. It is a carac. Listen to learning to be human on I have radio, Apple Podcasts, or whatever you get your podcast. Can I tell you guys the sad, sad news? Is that we have to end, which is really horrible. Well, we had the best time.

Because you're too much fun. It's so much fun. So wait, while you're here, because we're going to have to have you back, because now your names are on the script. I can have you whenever I want you. Which is all the time. Okay, all the time. But I have pressing questions. Sure. Okay.

Julie. Are you a Charlotte? Oh, I should have seen that coming. Well, the truth is, on Sex and the City, when we were writing that series, I would never have said I was a Charlotte. I would have said I was a Miranda, basically a Miranda, obviously with some Carrie, but basically a Miranda. But all these years later, and just like that, I realized I really am now a Charlotte. Because I am a mom and I have this marriage and these kids and so many of my current issues and adventures fit more for Charlotte. So I feel like either I've evolved or devolved or changed in all the ways.

Love it. Well, so Charlotte has changed. Yeah. Yes. Hopefully we all do. Yes. And Elisa, I kind of know, but tell me. Well, let's see. my husband is also bald I thought it was also a Charlotte no I'm very much a short

I mean I think I definitely had back in sex in the city days I might have had a little Charlotte shame like oh I don't want to be like oh I'm not so traditional I'm not so I was never like a rules girl like there are things that I want you know not every part of Charlotte of course but in a word yes I love it. I love it so much. And now that you put it that way, I realized, like, thank you notes, like, I was raised to, like, you write a thank you note that under penalty of death. And that is such a Charlotte thing.

Definitely. So you always had that. I had that. And also, you're very perfectionistic. Yes. Very Charlotte. I mean, but, but Miranda's also very overachieving, right? So that kind of connect. They bleed into each. Yes. 100% they do. And I also think that, you know, because of the trajectory. that we've had together, you know, for all of these many years, time on, time off doesn't really matter, right? The fact that we've gotten to continue together and that you guys were such a huge, huge part of it and just like that. I'm so grateful to you and the way that you allowed Charlotte to evolve and deepen and shift. And someone said to me the other day, like, Charlotte, you're so strong in it just like that. And I was like, oh, wow. They said, did they say that to you?

And I was like, no, no one never said that to me. I mean, Michael said to me, You can't change too much because I need all the change to be around you and I need you to like hold the center. You are like the found. Thank you, babe. What's the word? Like the hub of, yeah, you have to be strong like when people are falling apart around you. Thank you. And that was always true when you look back.

But the interesting thing too is that like when we started and I don't know if this was me or her or both so much insecurities, right? Like I had so many insecurities personally, but also Charlotte, because the rest are cool. And she's not cool. Like, that's kind of a fundamental thing about her. She's earnest and she's full of feeling and she has these goals. And they're not the cool goals. Yes. Do you mean?

You don't have as much armor as other people. No armor, basically. You know what I'm saying? And that's true for me as well, right? So that's where we bleed. But also, like, the first Emmys, which was such a wonderful, you know, surprise, wonderful, incredible thing. And I had no stylist, and I just went around town and doing fittings by myself. And I had a stack of Polaroids.

And I would take them to different people in my lives, like my publicist, my publicist boss, my manager, my manager's boss at the time, my agents. Everyone had different opinions. And one of the things that all the men in the group would say is you have to wear something very sexy because you are completely unsexy on that show. You are the unsexy one. First of all, wrong. Can you believe that? That is so wrong. But I really forgot.

that until I was thinking about this other day, but because we were a show called Sex and the City, but we had Samantha, who's the, you know, no fear, no rules, powerful, right? And then we had Charlotte who was in some ways presented as the prudish one in the beginning, but not actually, right? And then time goes on. But you forget about those beginnings, you know? Like they wanted me to wear this crazy dress that Mariah Carey ended up wearing, which is why I didn't wear it. That was like a cutout Michael Coors where like your breasts are barely in. I have a polaroid of it. I'm going to put it on the air.

As I need your pictures. I need your pictures of the baby us. Okay, Julie. I'll be fine. You do yours. Because they're so cute. But anyway, just the, it's so funny to think of the ideas that we had at the beginning and how things were allowed to evolve. Evolve.

Yeah. And thank God you guys were there. There's so much fun. Thank you for having us. Yeah. It was amazing. Yes. Thank you.

I love to do you. And to work with. To podcast. Yeah. I mean, all of it is a dream. It's just a dream to know you guys. I love you so much. Joy is essential and it's also elusive.

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I appreciate that. I'd be seeing it, but I'm like, man, I still got, like so much more to do. Like Prince, he dropped like 30 albums. We dropped like five right now. That's the rate we got to be going. Yep, that's a good attitude. No matter the era, Drink Chams brings you the biggest names, and the most unfiltered conversations.

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