Are You A Charlotte? - To Be Direct with Allen Coulter... (S2 E5 "Four Women and a Funeral")

Episode Date: July 14, 2025

Famed director Allen Coulter gives insight to what went on behind the camera.From shooting iconic fashion through a taxi cab window to complicated sex scenes, this is a fascinating look inside Sex and the City.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I know a lot of cops, they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. This is Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. Listen to Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? Hi, everybody. Thanks for tuning in this week. I'm very, very excited because this is our first director we're having on. It is Alan Coulter. He's an amazing director. He came on in the second season of Sex and the City

and he directed, I believe, eight episodes. He had, to me, an incredible effect on our overall show. He changed the visuals, he changed the way that we kind of interacted within a scene and a group scene. For me as an actor, he really just gave me so much confidence and I was so much more at ease when he was directing. I learned so much from him.

And he also, the way that we got him is that he was already directing The Sopranos. He was on their first season and then he continued on with them. So he was really just like one of HBO's key directors. And we were incredibly lucky to get him and we're incredibly lucky to talk to him today. He's gonna share with us so many just incredible tidbits

of details and how he created scenes, and it's a joy. So today, technically, we are rewatching Four Women and a Funeral, but he also directed Take Me Out to the Ball Game, The Awful Truth, The Freak Show for Weddings and a Funeral, What Comes Around Goes Around, one of my all-time favorite episodes. Cock-a-doodle-doo.

Defining Moment. What Sex Got to Do With It. I mean, wow. Wow. Love Alan Coulter so much. Enjoy, you guys. Alan! Hi!

Hi. How are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. Thank you so much for coming on. I have wanted you to come on for many reasons.

Number one, I enjoy you so much as you know. Number two, when I have been rewatching, because I never, I watched like when the initial show would get delivered to us on the VHS, but I've never rewatched. So in rewatching, I have even more and deeper appreciation for your contribution as a director. Oh, well, thank you. That's so nice of you to say. It's true. It's true. I can tell an owl in culture. I mean, for me personally, as an actor,

I learned so much from you, which I think you were aware of. Like you had a big impact on me. I didn't, but I'm glad to hear it. Oh, you didn't know that? Oh my God. Oh my God. I mean, I think for a couple of reasons. I think number one, something about your Southern-ness makes me feel at home. So there's that.

And then you had such, like when I watch an episode, that's one of your episodes, I can tell immediately because of the way the camera moves, because of certain elements of the visuals. And I think, I feel like I can say this, I don't know if I'm speaking out of turn, but I think all of our work is more relaxed. There's a relaxation.

Great, that's really lovely to hear. That's what I hope, you know. It's true. You made us feel comfortable and I feel like we're less kind of performative. I mean, I know it's a comedy and sometimes you need an element of performative, but it's less.

And especially for myself, which I'm my own worst critic. And then one of the best things that you ever taught me, and I think the rest of us as well, was to talk fast and walk slow. Okay. That was a big lesson in a show where you walk and talk. Yeah, that's right. I bring it up now on the new show with our new cast members.

We quote you. And you know the other thing that we quote, sometimes if we're working really late, which is not as much as in the olden days, we say, Cock-a-doodle-doo! Do you remember? Yeah. So you're still with us, Alan, you're still with us in so many ways. That's so great. Well, I actually went back and because of this I went back, I had not seen the show probably since it was released, and went back and watched it and I was really pleased,

first of all, just how well the show plays still. Of course, it's getting like the Sopranos, it's getting another life, you know, different ages. And my wife was watching, Kim was watching it and she was saying, it's great. I mean, it still plays. So that's really a high compliment to all the involved, all of you and Michael Patrick and Darren and so on.

But it really does. And I, you know, I'm, you're talking about your own worst critic. I'm looking at you like, really you couldn't do better than that? But I, but there were a few things I really liked. I will say that there were some moments that I thought, and there's one with you and Kyle just sort of sitting,

I think it's when you've kind of finally gotten together and had sex with her. And I just remember you're sort of sitting against a wall. Yeah, that's good. It's a nice scene. Just two people just talking. And there's one with Sarah Jessica and Chris when they're sitting on the bed.

It's after they kind of get, you think they're gonna get back together, he's got the red wall. Right. And then she just says, they kind of look at each other and just says you know he says I like living alone and she's like and she said that doesn't surprise me or something but there's just a quality that I was real pleased with I just thought absolutely yeah sitting just sitting quietly talking so I think those things are amazing. And I also feel like one of the first episodes that you directed, there's a scene with Kim,

with Samantha, where she is with a man who's younger and he's telling her like, you know, what, you must be 40. And she goes in the bathroom and she looks at herself and then she comes back up and he's all chained up in the closet, which is of course a shock. But you do this cool thing with the camera, it's not a very big bedroom, but she walks out and she doesn't know where he is,

and she's looking around and the camera moves around her, just in perfect harmony with her look, you know? Which as an actor is not that easy to do, right? And it's seamless. And then you both land on the door at the same time, the camera and her face, like you're behind her. It's very cool. And that's the kind of thing we did more often later,

but I think that's cause you brought it. You know, you introduced that to us. Well, you know, that's funny. I'm glad you're saying that because, you know, I was thinking, you know, what happened for you guys, probably, I don't know how much y'all knew what was going on, but I was doing the Sopranos and I was finishing up whatever the season was, probably the first season maybe. And Michael Hill came to me and he said, we're going to start season two

of Sex and the City and I'd like for you to come and try to bring some style to it. Because I had noticed you looked like a sitcom. So true. And so I said, sure, I'd love to. And I remember this is my memory of it. You guys made it up. Oh, I want your memories. Yes.

But so when I showed up and everybody was just like a sponge. Everybody was just like, what do you want? You know, my reaction was, everybody, all of you four knew that things were not working the way they could. And so consequently, here comes a new guy in the door and everybody was so like eager. And I did something, I just wanted to kind of, and as I, the more I directed the video,

the more I loosened up too and did more, but I remember, you know, doing things like, and I'm just thinking about this, there's a scene where I just said, you know, I'm not gonna try to stage this because it was too complicated. So what I told each of you was, just get to that person for their line.

I don't care where you go, and I'll go with you. And that's, so I just turned you where you go and I'll go with you. And that's so I just turned you guys loose. And I think everybody just sparked it because it was kind of like theater, you know. Definitely. And then, you know, somebody would carry the camera over and just just in time to land on the other person who picked up the, you know, and then took it back. But it was very had a great quality of just random people talking and you each found something, some reason to I said, find a reason to go over

to that person at that point. Yeah, that was hard. I mean, I think we really love to be challenged. Yeah, it was fun and exciting and we got the shots a lot quicker than if we'd had to set up on each one of those moments. Oh my God, yes. And so that was fun for me was just to say,

how can I help break this out of what it was? And, and, and I was left alone, which is another great thing. I mean, I just was like, I don't think there was anybody on the set. I mean, the writers might have been, but they didn't say the word. They were often upstairs early on, you know, like Darren would be upstairs and Michael would be upstairs.

And if you needed them, they might come down. Whereas later on they would be there. Like if it was their script, they would be sitting there, would be upstairs and if you needed them they might come down whereas later on they would be there like if it was their script they would be sitting there which they are still now and now you know they're like part you know they're very much present but yeah I do remember that I mean I also I remember so many things but I remember of course we worked all night you know very frequently it was a challenge but we were younger. I was used to that from the Sopranos. Got it.

We were in like eight hours, you know. Right, right, right. So when you went to the Sopranos, just to refresh my memory too, because I don't know, I knew for sure that there was a group of directors from the Sopranos that HBO really loved that they wanted to come to us. And of course we were thrilled, right? We were like, yes, yes, yes. So you had been over there on the first season

with Sopranos, then you came to us second. That's right. I started with the college episode when he picked the boat at college. Oh, like the best episode ever. Oh my God. Yeah, that was, and so, and then I did, David at that point, I still remember when it happened

because it was such a life altering moment. He came on the, we were shooting on location And then I did David at that point, when he I still remember when it happened because it was such a life altering moment. He came on the we were shooting on location and he came on the location and walked up to me like 10 in the morning. He said, I just seen the dailies. I want you to stay on. I've got one other episode free and I want you to be the producing director and oversee the other directors.

And so it was like, okay. And that and so I came out of that season having done a couple of episodes, and I think it was right after that, rather than the second season, I'm pretty sure it was right then, that then, I just don't remember how we segued, but I remember I was done,

and then I just kind of almost literally the next day. Oh wow. Felt like it anyway, I don't know what it really was. I mean. And then I came in and the timing was such that I could come in and work with the four of you. And I have to say the mood was great. I mean, everybody was in great spirits and excited.

And I think it was fresh, as far as the writers, it was sort of a fresh approach with Jenny and Michael. And I guess it was, trying to remember the other writer, I think maybe Amy. Was Amy, yeah, Amy would have been there by that point. And I think soon Cindy comes, Cindy Schupack. Yeah, that's right. It's like one, we added a woman,

like every couple of months we got a new woman and then they were part of the fault. I remember that. My closest relationship was with Jenny just by serendipity. And she is pretty hilarious. I love Jenny. Did you go back and forth between us and the Sopranos? I did for a few seasons, yes. Wow.

So I did, I think I did four episodes at first, because I actually directed the first four episodes. What happened was I was hired to do the first two episodes to try to set the tone. But very quickly they said, why don't you stay and do the first four, which I did. But the fourth episode, which was four women at a funeral, they pushed to air as the fifth episode. It wasn't the fourth. Right. But I directed the first four and then, and I think very nicely other directors came in and went, oh, we can do this. And so I remember running into John Coles and he said you know saying oh so we're cutting loose a little bit I said yeah you know and and so then I went

back to Sopranos and then I somewhere along the line I got free and I came back for season three right and where I did like the freak show which I really like yeah the freak show we've already seen it, season two. Yeah, it's really good. It's so great. Yeah. That's right, season two. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I think you were around season three too. I was, I was on three. I did, I think, Cockadoodle, what goes around comes around. Oh, a great episode. Oh my God, one of my all time favorites. I like that one. I just watched that.

That was one I felt like, it has also one of my favorite shots, which was, I mean, not to... No, tell us. Phrases on myself, but I just happened to like it. Well, first of all, I really love the scene between Sarah Jessica and Bridget Moynihan. Yeah. And Bridget, when Sarah Jessica apologizes, and then Bridget very quietly says, okay, are you through?

And then she proceeds and really lacerates, you know, Carrie, just quietly. And I remember talking to Bridget because I got a very nice note from either Bridget or her manager after that, because I think she had a different, you know, she was going to be really angry and stuff. And I just said, no, you know what? Don't do that. Right. My favorite direction, don't do that.

And. And got her to really just quietly deliver that really devastating speech. And she's really, and I got a very nice note from either, as I say, either Bridget or former manager, and it was, you know, made me realize it really worked for her. But the other thing is, right after that,

there's a shot of Sarah Jessica that I really like, and it's the very last shot of the thing. And God bless John Melfi. I had been playing a piece of music when I shot it, because I had this feeling about it. And he went out and got the music, and it cost him a fortune it's she just walks toward the camera she's wearing this New York Times dress you know it's at the oh yes

the Dior yeah and she's walking toward the camera and I found a position on Park Avenue so that I could look through the car windows to see her. Yeah. To get a little moment where the cars are seen through these cars. And it's kind of dreamy and sort of poignant in a weird way. Yeah. And it's so much about New York, both because of Sarah Jessica and her character Carrie, but also because the dress says the times, and you've got the taxis going through,

and the traffic and it's just everything about it. I thought it did what I'd hoped one of the things I'd hoped to do and this is the cliche of all time but when I came up to the show I just felt like New York was kind of missing and I thought I thought it should really be five characters you know in the city. Yeah so I was looking for ways to show that like on cockadoodledo. This is a, one of those things that only I know right now you and, and I presume nobody's listening to this. No, it's just us.

Just us. But I start that episode with a miniature version of the largest woman in New York, and I ended with the largest man because it starts with a Statue of Liberty, a statue about this big and through the show you come back to it and at the end it's the Empire State Building. Oh my god! Amazing! I never realized that! Well, it's one of those things that I think directors do that just for their own amusement. But I kind of liked the idea. So- Yeah, I mean, this is the thing. I think you're doing it for your own amusement, but it's adding layer upon layer upon layer

because you're putting so much thought into the shots and how the shots are moving and the characters and like shooting through the windows. That was so powerful. But people don't always necessarily think about it, but that's the joy of directing, is that you're influencing the whole storytelling. Well, I think you hope that they feel it.

Yeah. Rarely recognize it. That's for women in a funeral, one of the things that I did, again, very subtle, but I put it in there whenever I could, was I'd like the idea of kind of slightly diaphanous curtains blowing. There's something about that that sort of-

I noticed that, yes. It was beautiful. There's a shot of Sarah at the window, and for whatever reason, I don't know if it was how you had our guys light her, but her skin is just so beautiful, and she's looking at the window, smoking, I believe, and the curtains are blowing in her face, And that was something we just hadn't had that layer of

kind of emotion in the shots previously. Well, that's great. That's great. Yeah, because I, yeah, and also because it's the atmosphere of the city. And I think I ended on curtains. I think the last image is she's in bed with Big. Yes. And the curtain goes past them and goes toward the window and you see the curtains moving. Yes, it's so fantastic. And this is the funny thing to me too, is that people think, or people in our business, I guess, or I don't know, sometimes even on the podcast,

I think people have said that television isn't so much the director's medium. People think of it as being the writer's medium, right? More so. But if you really think about our show, where I feel like obviously the writers have a huge, huge, huge impact and are very present, but the directors, those of you who came with a vision

and like for whatever reason felt the support to do what you wanted, which thank God, right? HBO was great at that. You know, you really made a change that lasted, whether you were directing or not, you changed the way that we perceived that we could be. Well, that's great. That, in fact, I just saw a little piece of,

like, just when I was looking at these, and it was like the opening of a season four or five, and Michael Patrick directed, but I didn't know who directed it and I thought wow that's got great energy just the way he does the shots it's this rapid little series of shots that carries you into the scene and I thought well good because that's what I would have I would not have done that right I've known what I would have done right but that's actually the show I was trying to say, to plant a flag in that show and say, this is where it can go.

And I just thought that he did a really masterful job of saying, okay, we have this freedom and this kind of language, I think, that has been established. And of course my dear friend, Timmy Van Potten. Oh, Timmy. And so he, you know, he did the same thing. I said that those directors that have some vision,

Yeah. I feel like we're given this opportunity. Absolutely, absolutely. And for us, I mean, that's why it's so great to talk to you, too, is that, you know, I'm so curious about what you guys remember, but also, you know, to look back and really think about, oh, here's where the show kind of jumped up a level. You know, like, we were there and we were eager, as you say,

you know, and we were just so excited that it got picked back up. You know, we were obviously had some sense that it was unusual. We never would have dreamt that it, you know, lived the life that it got picked back up. You know, we were obviously had some sense that it was unusual. We never would have dreamt that it, you know, lived the life that it has lived, obviously. But we were super excited, as you know. But you need a vision and a leader and different perspectives to come in to bring life to it.

That's right, that's right. And yeah, it's right. And I think that, you know, I was, I have to say those first few seasons were really fun because there was a spirit to the show. I mean, I just, I think at a certain point as with the Sopranos, I just ceased to be able to, I just didn't have the room on the schedule because then I started doing other things. And, and, you know, after you've done, in my case, four seasons and a little bit of the fifth season on Sopranos.

And I think I shot something in season four, I'm fair and sure I did on Sex and the City and then I just didn't have the bandwidth. Of course. Started doing pilots and stuff. Right, but we want that. We want you guys to succeed and do bigger and better and get paid more and whatnot.

Unfortunately, that happened. Yeah. But yeah, it was, and I was just thinking about, I will tell you this though. Actually, this is perfect because you have a part in, you have a definite part in an allergy that I have and it started on four women in funeral. And what it was was, because I didn't have this before. And then if you remember the scene where you show up with the lilies and you beat the, with the lilies.

And we did a bunch of takes of that. I do remember. That instant I became wildly allergic to lilies. And I can't be. I'm so sorry. No. Oh my God. I never thought I can't be- I'm so sorry. No. Oh my God. I never thought I'd have an opportunity to say, hey. But.

I remember that day so well. Like, you know, obviously we spent many a day on the set, right? And sometimes I don't remember anything. Like I'll be rewatching and I'll think like, I have no idea what I'm about to do because I don't remember this. But then some days I remember everything.

And I remember that day really well because I think we were in Harlem at a graveyard and it was raining and raining and raining and it was cold. And I was not supposed to wear a coat. And I was like, I'm a Southern girl and I like the heat. And I was begging Pat for a coat, but Pat didn't want to put a coat on me

because she liked the dress. And it was, you know, she has her vision. I get it, but I was just like shivering, you know? And my feet were soaked. I ruined my Manolos. And those were the first pair of high shoes that she had got me in. They had to go to the cobbler and get like totally redone

because I had to climb up a hill. Like I think, yeah, to hit it maybe or after. You had to kind of charge up this unclimb to. Yeah, it was muddy, it was ick. When you watch it, you can't really tell. I mean, you can tell that it had rained, you know, in the magic of cinema, right? But you can't tell that it literally,

we're sitting there waiting for it to stop raining. And I remember the girls came after that to do the actual funeral where the hat blows off, which is so fun and I hadn't really remembered all that. And I remember I turned to Sarah Jessica and I was like, I'm freezing and I've ruined my shoes and I just blah, blah, blah vented. But I just felt that was one of those times

where I was like, man, it's a challenging job. Well, it was that day, that's for sure. It was, it was, it really was. But, you know, I look at it and I love it. You know what I mean? I think one of the things as an actor you feel when it is like a physical challenge in the environment is that you're somehow not gonna be good.

That it's taking attention away from the actual work or whatever, but it's fine. It's good. It's great. Yeah, no, it's great. Well, you know, I was watching Cockle Doodle Doo last night and and I was watching and I watched as you get to the end of that. And there's the roof party and which was really it's very sweet scene you know it's kind of all is forgiven by the as they were referred to in the show the trannies and it may not be appropriate nowadays but

right no it's definitely not yeah yeah but you know that's what the characters name exactly right that's like the group is referred that way. Right. But what's nice is it is a very, it's a very sweet scene. Yeah. Everybody seems to be having fun and, you know, Sarah Jessica gets up and does a little thing

when I- I remember. Requested, you know, and then the camera leaves them and goes back up to the Empire Sable and the Hinch. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The moment. But when I was watching it, I found myself a little bit touched. And the reason was, I thought, well, the scene is sweet for sure. But it's also just because I remember that day and I thought, oh, that was,

you know, 20 plus years ago. Yeah. Life was different then. I was so different. That the world was different. And, and so it was, there was something about that. Just seeing that scene that entered into the personal where I was like, oh yeah, that was, you know. It's true.

And then you guys did, I don't know who did this. Somebody in the art department, but there's a scene where you guys go to, you're down in SoHo, and I think you're gonna go to a party, a fraternity party, I think. Maybe it's just Kim and, might've been just Sarah Jessica and Kim,

because it was where Kim's character gets, Samantha gets involved with a young college kid from Texas supposedly. But I noticed that the dormitory, I mean I didn't notice it until we were really shooting and then I look and see it's called Coulter Hall. It's like who did this? I love it. That's adorable.

We had some fun little inside jokes, didn't we? We did. It was a very sweet deal and being there, Silver Cup, and I mean, yeah, it was just, I mean, it was a great deal, you know, I mean, it really was. It was, I'm so happy that you were there. I mean, it's also, that's part of the reason I wanted to do the podcast.

There's a couple of reasons. One is it does hold up well, as you said at the beginning. And there's this whole new group of people who's watching it on Netflix. And it's so exciting. And obviously, they think some things are crazy, right? Because it is a different time. And then some things are a complete, you know, current conversation being had, you know, on social media or whatever.

And then also, I just love to get everyone together and hear everybody's memories. Because for me, it's incredible, our entire history. It's been so amazing. And back in the beginning, we didn't talk about things kind of, like I think we felt like when you would do press, it was more presentational. It wasn't necessarily, we wouldn't tell so many stories about behind the scenes.

I don't think people knew so much about production, really, in a way. And so it's a way to kind of get everybody's like personal memories and weave them together into a quilt of like, what was it like to actually create the show, you know, by all the different people? I mean, that's what I'd like to do at least.

That's my goal. That's a great goal. I really, I- Thank you. It's fun, isn't it? Yeah, it is. It's fun. I did what is it called?

The Sopranos podcast. Yeah. The Talking Sopranos with Michael Imperioli. Yeah, love it. And it was just the same thing. It was just a blast to kind of go back and the different kind of funny memories and stuff like that. Okay, so as I said, this is what you brought up also. It's so beautiful, Sarah, in the window.

And I think, you know, because we've had the voiceover, and then we used to have the talking to the camera, right? Which was like so awkward. And at this point, it's going. I don't know if it's totally gone. It shows up in weird moments, but it didn't show up in this one, thank God. Because as we know, Sarah Jessica did not really enjoy it.

She wants to stay in the scene, which totally makes sense. But when we began this show, and the curtains are blowing are blowing and she's smoking and you're hearing her interior thoughts about the funeral, like it has such a depth to it because I had not remembered this at all. I had not remembered that the funeral, I hadn't remembered the way that the funeral tied into her relationship with Big, that she literally thinks, am I really living life?

What am I doing? And that's why she calls him back, which is, I think, so relatable in so many ways. Life is passing, people pass away, and you do think like, oh my God, am I actually living life? Like, it's a real valid question. And I had forgotten that I'd fallen in love

or whatever, lust, whatever, like with theoware, that all those things are tied together, which I think is also kind of one of the things that the show is starting to do successfully that it didn't really do first season. Yeah, I think that's, I mean, I watched very little the first season because honestly it was like, well, this is not that interesting to me because I had, really didn't have a look to it and it wasn't really as focused. I mean, it was finding itself well, this is not that interesting to me because it really didn't have a look to it. And it wasn't really as focused. I mean, it was finding itself in fairness. Definitely.

I mean, if you see the early Simpsons, you go, it looks nothing like the show now. Right. So in fairness, it takes a while to find a show. And definitely. And I would say that the main thing of how the first season looks is dark. You can't even see us.

You're like, where are they in the nighttime? It's so interesting. You know, you're just like, well, are they there on the street? I'm not sure. I mean, there's a quaint, like, kind of nostalgic, you know, quality to it because it's sometimes also we're in the village and it looks just nothing like the village looks now. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's empty. Yeah. It's fascinating, yeah. But that's one of the things that I noticed in your episode, in this particular episode,

and also Freak Show. Freak Show, Cynthia is lit so beautifully and you're so close on her face and all those scenes that she's doing about talking dirty. And it's just so, there's something so vulnerable and young about it, you know? I don't know how to put it, but it has a sweetness

at the same time that we're talking about these kind of risky sexual things and whatever, there's just like a vulnerability of being like inside these women's lives. I agree with you. In fact, Kristen, I was thinking that, I had this thought last night I thought you know what what's interesting about the show is it's extremely innocent

With all of this sexual, you know focus and some of it none of its graphic, but it's all pretty you can't miss What's going on? Yeah, it's oddly innocent. I think I think you're right There's something sort of sweet about it. It's not really mean spirited at all. No. And even when somebody is kind of a dupe, like freak show, those guys. Yeah, yeah. They're funny.

I mean, and you may remember that we lit them like, I mean, and Michael Patrick, I'm sure, must have done it. They bring in this kind of freak, this music that sounds like a carnival. Yeah. Do, do, do, do, do. And I have them light them, you know, so that each one of those is lit

to look like something in a carnival. And it's scary, yeah, but sweet scary. I think some of that, and this is what I love, and it's a little bit sometimes hard to talk about it, but I do remember in the first season, as actors, as actresses, we were unsure of the point of view of the show, right? So like we knew that we were these women and that we were going to talk about sexuality.

But when it came time to do a sex scene, you know, was it like from the male perspective? Was it supposed to be titillating or was it supposed to be realistic or like were we going to make our female viewers uncomfortable? There were questions that we had as actors because it was so different. You know, it wasn't, like in film, there was a lot of sexuality, but it was very much from the male gaze

in terms of titillation and not necessarily realistic and all of those things. And we were definitely changing that, but we didn't really know what we were doing in the beginning. And what I see now, by the time that you're really establishing your look, is that, and I think this is a powerful thing and it's kind of intangible, but the way that you film someone can be from a perspective of love, you know, of like interest, like curiosity,

which is how, especially the Cynthia in the freak show, you're so close to her, but she's so, she has no guard. You know, she's so brilliant, obviously, but she has no guard up, like her face is so open. But that's something that you can only create on a set with like a love and a trust. That the actor can feel that way and that we trust the camera crew

and that the director, you in this case, is someone where we know that we're taken care of. Well, that's, yeah, that's good. It's interesting, because I do try to, I mean, I've never worked with a, what do they call it a with a sex the person they now have a z coordinator but I never worked with one and I hope I never have to you don't need to Alan is other people who

need that okay yeah because I mean I've shot more sex scenes than probably any of those people will in their lifetime. Yes. And, you know, it was always about finding exactly, you know, just making sure that the actors are, you know, having, I would always talk to actors before that. I don't remember sex scene, but I'm sure it was no different. And, you know, just to say,

look, this is what we're gonna do. I wouldn't chase them away and just have a quiet conversation right make sure no awkwardness or anybody was uncomfortable and but I will tell you what it's the line that I've said many a time because I think it's really right the there's someone once said I don't know who said it, everything is about sex but sex. And so I kind of follow that guideline. In other words, when I shoot a sex scene, I'm always,

and that was true for Sex and the City for sure, which is what is this scene really about and how can I show that? So in that case, it was about Cynthia's innocence and her delight, almost like a child, discovering something that she could do that she didn't never occur to her, that she could do that.

And actually embrace it, so to speak. But it was about that. Not about the dirtiness of what she's saying or whatever, however one perceives that. Right. And you made me think about, and you know, there's comical sex scenes. I mean the one with when Samantha has sex with this college kid and you know sort of treated like a rodeo, you know, like he, you know, he

kind of does some of these things that the guy would ride a, ride in a bucket Bronco, you know, what they would do. And so, you know, that was meant to be comical. A lot of them are comical. Right. But one of the ones that I'm thinking of, the point I want to make is that when there's not a lot of serious sex scenes in that show, generally. True. Yeah. But one of them, and when they are, I'm not interested in the sex.

I'm interested in suggesting what the feeling is of that moment. And at the end of, I guess, I'm trying to remember, oh yeah, four women at a funeral, it ends with Cary in bed with Big. Camera really just brushes across them. It doesn't really linger on that at all. Just, it has a very sensual look. You can see it.

Oh, it's beautiful. Yeah, but there's nothing, it's just, you know what's happening, but what the scene is about is this is a quiet intimate moment, really intimate between the two of them, in which the camera is just simply going on its sort of sensual path past them to kind of, and the movement of the camera is meant to kind of emphasize or underscore maybe the sensuality of the moment as opposed to the sexuality that there is that they're it's skin on skin in a very intimate and meaningful way but it glides past them and toward the window where once again you see the curtains blowing right and it's also kind of going out and it's

heading toward the New York night where others are making love. Right. Yes, beautiful. And it's so, you know, Sarah Jessica is obviously, rightly so, very always concerned with any kind of sexual scene or nudity question or anything. And she's not easy to trust. And I think that's wonderful, especially because she's playing Carrie. And that is one of the few scenes where you really, she's very at ease and you get to see skin. It's not salacious in any way. It's sensual, as you say. And that's because she trusted you, which is, you know, incredible because it adds so much when she does choose to show something. You know what I'm saying? It has more impact.

That's great, that's great. I loved her, I just was thinking, one of the things that I really enjoyed on Freak Show was the thing when she becomes the freak. Yes! And I intentionally had her have the cigarette in her mouth the whole time. Yes, it's so good.

It's so funny. It's so funny because now no one smokes right? Like you're literally like a serial killer if you smoke now. Amber takes it out of her mouth and she ends up and I have to I said get up on the bed. Standing on the bed so she's really not doing anything right at that moment. She's standing on this guy's bed, break into his private collection of boys' Boy scout badges, right? The badges, right? And with his cigarette, so she looks kind of like a, I don't know, like a, I don't even know how to say it.

Like she's just some tough broad from- Totally, yes she does. She doesn't look like herself at all, it's true. And that makes it all the better when he comes back in. Yeah, exactly. So, Alan, obviously we have so much to talk about. We are going to come back, you guys. Hang in there with us.

We're going to talk about four women and a funeral. So what happened at Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you talk to. There are many versions of what happened at Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you talk to. There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond. And left a woman behind to drown. Chappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control. Every week we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family.

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