Are You A Charlotte? - What Does One Wear to a Funeral?? (More with Allen Coulter)... (S2 E4 "Four Women and a Funeral")

Episode Date: July 17, 2025

Kristin continues her conversation with the director of this episode, Allen Coulter.  The man behind the Sex and the City “walk and talks” shares how he sees the friendship between Charlotte, Samantha, Miranda and Carrie.  And, did his Sopranos background influence how he shot and lit the memorable “celebrity cameo”?Plus, Kristin relates all too well to Miranda’s conundrum at the bank.  And, was it appropriate for Charlotte to sleep with the widower?See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. The Girlfriends is back with a new season, and this time I'm telling you the story of Kelly Harnett. Kelly spent over a decade in prison for a murder she says she didn't commit. As she fought for her freedom, she taught herself the law. He goes, oh God, Harnett, jailhouse lawyer. And became a beacon of hope for the women locked up alongside her. You're supposed to have faith in God, but I had nothing but faith in her. I think I was put here to save souls by getting people out of prison.

The Girlfriends, Jailhouse Lawyer. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Just like great shoes, great books take you places. Through unforgettable love stories and into conversations with characters you'll never forget. I think any good romance, it gives me this feeling of like butterflies. I'm Danielle Robay and this is Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club, the new podcast from Hello Sunshine and iHeart Podcasts where we dive into the stories that shape us on the page and off. Each week, I'm joined by authors, celebs, book talk stars and more for conversations that

will make you laugh, cry and add way too many books to your TBR pile. Listen to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Join iHeartRadio and Sarah Spain in celebrating the one year anniversary of iHeart Women's Sports. With powerful interviews and insider analysis, our shows have connected fans

with the heart of women's sports. In just one year, the network has launched 15 shows and built a community united by passion. Podcasts that amplify the voices of women in sports. Thank you for supporting I Heart Women's Sports and our founding sponsors, Elf Beauty, Capital One, and Novartis. Just open the free I Heart app

and search I Heart Women's Sports to listen now. I knew I wanted to obey and submit, but I didn't fully grasp for the rest of my life what that meant. For My Heart podcasts and Rococo Punch, this is the turning, River Road. In the woods of my life what that meant. For My Heart podcasts and Rococo Punch, this is The Turning, River Road. In the woods of Minnesota, a cult leader married himself to 10 girls

and forced them into a secret life of abuse. But in 2014, the youngest escaped. Listen to The Turning, River Road on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So what happened at Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you talk to. There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond. And left a woman behind to drown. Chappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control. Every week we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family.

Listen to United States of Kennedy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? So we're back to the beginning of the show. We're on for Women and a Funeral, which is wonderful. And we go to the funeral. There's so many funny jokes. I mean, I'd forgotten that this guy, Javier, died of a heroin overdose,

but Carrie knew him when he was... What's the non Javier? Harry or whatever. It's all very funny and she were at the I had also totally forgotten about this entire Samantha storyline and I do not remember any other time where Samantha has women other women like wives of guys that she's messed around with giving her a hard time like this I hadn't remembered any of that and it was super fascinating.

Do you remember these women? Sort of, yeah. Like there's like society women she has to go see. Oh, that's right, oh, that's right. Like the grand dame to try to get her because she makes out with some dude in his office and his wife walks in. Well, she gets caught on the sofa with the guy and the wife walks in. Well, she gets caught on the sofa with the guy

and the wife walks in. So yeah, she has to go and get on her knees virtually and plead her case with this woman. Right, and it doesn't work. Doesn't work. And she shames her. And Samantha says, do you want me to say I'm a whore? I was like, what?

I don't remember this at all. And part of me, I do feel like some of this, and I need to ask Darren and Michael, I feel like some of this, we got so much mixed commentary after the first season of like, who are these women? No one wants to date these women, you know, from male critics, right?

And I feel like some of that was incorporated into storylines to say like, yeah, we know what you're all saying, you know, and by the way, we don't care. We're going to write it in. You know, and I felt like that was the scene. And it's interesting because she says, like, do you want me to say this? And the woman's just sitting there and then she says it and then it doesn't work. And then she's like, well, fine, you know.

And then she goes and has to do like manual labor at the building of this charity thing that she was trying to make. I don't remember any of it and it was so adorable. And she's wearing like regular clothes and she's dirty. But then it's Leonardo DiCaprio, who we filmed without showing because it's obviously not him.

Do you remember this? You light him from behind and he reaches down to her. It's so good. Yeah, that little kind of silly moment of kind of an homage to the Leonardo da Vinci, you know, the fingers. Yes, it was beautiful. It was so good. I didn't remember any of this. This is what I love so much about rewatching is like the details and the interesting things that there were so much of it. It was packed in to this, you know, 25 minutes, 22

minutes, and you look back and it's amazing. I know, it feels like an hour show, it really does. Right? Not because it's slow, but because so much happens. Yeah, so much happens, and every little thing is really interesting, especially when you're looking at it, and then you think like, I could watch it again.

Like now I understand when people come up and say, I've watched this show so many times, and it's always so flattering, and now I really get, like, you can see something different every time you look at it. Absolutely. It's amazing. It's amazing. Anyway, I diverted from the in order rewatching, but that Samantha storyline really caught me off guard. I didn't remember it at all.

And I think it's just so great and fascinating. So we're there. I also think it's really funny that Carrie and I rarely dress the same. We dress in the black dresses and we're like, you know, critical. I'm like, is that an inappropriate outfit? I say to Samantha and then we're the ones who are inappropriate because we didn't wear the designer Javier, which is all kind of funny. And then we get there.

I borrow Samantha's hat because I feel like I'm boringly dressed and then it blows off, which I vaguely remember. Oh my God, and there's another thing coming, but I'm gonna try to be in order. I mean, and then we talk about this woman getting the sister of the designer getting all the plastic surgery done, which I mean, and then we make a Donatella Versace joke.

I mean, we're very like kind of ahead of our time, I think in some ways. Work, we work. Right, it's crazy. And then Samantha decides to help them so that she can get their mailing list, which is interesting. This is when she's in publicist mode.

And then we're gonna get, oh my God, I don't even wanna tell my story yet, because Miranda's story of buying the apartment is so fantastic and literally hasn't changed. Like when you go as myself, I have bought a house by myself. Thank God I have the money. They literally are like, and where's the money coming from? And like when workmen come over, they're like,

and who should I talk to about the billing? I'm like, me, like it is so insane. The sexist element. Well, that's right. I mean, in fact, I know that I really know the guy that plays making her fill out the form. So that's, you know, he keeps saying and that's, and finally he's just, or it says, and that's you,

or something like that. Right, he's like, he's like, and, oh, he literally says, is your father paying the down payment? Right, right. That's Seth Barish is actually a friend of mine. And he's just wonderful in that. He's kind of very, he just, he doesn't even see her. He's just like any guy like lawyer like that,

who's just, you know, this is just a object across the table from him. And he's dehumanized her completely the way he treats her. Right, and I mean, I think we've all had those moments when you're dealing with money and stuff where people, you're not a person. But I loved how you shot that too

because you don't do coverage. You just did the angle of them at the table looking at each other and the profile. It's so powerful. And she is just sitting there going like, yes, it's just me. Yes, it's just me. Yes, it's just me. I don't remember if I did closeups,

but if I did, I did them in profile. Got it. I mean, yeah, they are closeups. What I mean is you didn't come around. Yeah, they are. You're right. I didn't want to connect them. I wanted to say there is no connection here.

Wow. I didn't put the camera over them and connect them. I always kept them in separate scenes. Love it. So that you're saying there is no connection here. It's just too... Right. And also it's just such a powerful shot because there's a bit of backlighting. There might be another window there. And it's just very strong silhouette. Yet you totally

understand what's happening in the scene. It works. It works so beautifully. And I just love her entire story line because poor Miranda, oh my God, she goes through it. She buys herself this apartment, which really should be just purely a celebration of your success in life. Yet she is made to feel bad by her neighbor who tells her that the woman before her died in the apartment and no one found her

and her cat ate her face, which, you know, hopefully is not true, right? But her neighbor tells her this and Miranda then has a panic attack in her apartment and almost chokes and has to call Carrie and I only vaguely remembered all this but it's like so powerful and good and amazing to think about how in many ways it's still so true for single women. Oh yeah, no it's yeah I know it's very and I actually just to put note have nothing to do with anything except that I Barbara I so true for single women. Oh yeah, no, it's very, and I actually, just a footnote, have nothing to do with anything except that I,

Barbara, I think Barbara Spiegel, or Barbara Siegel, I believe, played the real estate agent who brings her in. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I knew her because I had directed her in an off-off Broadway play before I was even making a living as a director, I remember that.

That's amazing. Yeah, it was just a funny small world, you know. It's fun too. I mean, we have the most amazing actors in literally every part in our show. Oh yeah, oh yeah. I was just thinking, I just had to get her name because I couldn't remember, Molly Price.

Yes, I had her on last week. She has a moment with you in another episode when the dog, your dog barks. Yep. That only a dog will be, and you're on the bed, you remember this? Yes, it dog barks. Yep. That only a dog will be and you're on the bed. You remember this? Yes, it's so good. That moment, her reaction to that is,

I had to watch it like three times. It's so good. And I had her on the podcast. She also came into the first episode of and Just Like That as Susan Sharon. And I went to college with Molly. Like talk about multiple connections. Yes we went to Rutgers with Bill Esper at the you know the conservatory within Rutgers. Well it's funny I know Bill

Esper not I know he is because I had a girlfriend at that time who had studied with him and her good friend was Esper's assistant. Wow. But it's funny but I had all these, you know, interconnect, these other kind of connections to Esper so I'm very aware of him and yeah. Yes and also weirdly at Rutgers in New Brunswick, Gandolfini was a bartender at this restaurant, the Frog and the Toad, I believe it was called, something like that, that I used to go to before I quit drinking, which now I have quit drinking. And I think he was a BA student. We were in the BFA program, but he was there in a way, not in a way where

I saw him perform, but when I remembered that he had been the bartender because he was really interesting, obviously. But I mean, insane connections, right? Insane connections. And just a little side note, because you're sopranos and us, and you're the first person that I've talked to who has been both,

but we obviously had just so many memories, and so many, like to come up together was incredible. Obviously we could never have even understood how incredible, right? But do you remember at Silver Cup when we would both be there and they would have they were on stage X, which we went back and shot not the this past season of and just like that, the one before we were back on to Silver Cup, which is literally like falling down around us. But we were there and we my set got to be on stage X, which had been like falling down around us. But we were there. And we, my set got to be on

stage X, which had been the Sopranos. You had to go outside to get into it. Yeah, I got to be there. I got to be there. I felt very, I felt very privileged. But back in the day, remember there's like that middle area of Silver Cup, because it had been the bread factory. So it wasn't really like a proper studio. And the different stages would kind of have like a common area of hallways. And the Sopranos would have their craft services, which was like going to the best Italian restaurant that you could possibly imagine.

And our craft services was really, really not that, no offense to anyone who made it, but we would just be like, how can we get over there and get there? And they would guard that food, do you know what I mean? Like they'd be like, no, you can't come over here. And we'd be like, please, could we have some meatballs? On like hour 15, right?

You're like really wanting the Sopranos meatballs, but you can't have them. Do you remember all this? Like, it's such a crazy time. I didn't realize that the mob was keeping you away from our food. They were. They were prizing that food, because it was good. It was really good. ["The Daily Show"]

Kelly Harnett spent over a decade in prison for a murder she says she didn't commit. I'm 100% innocent. While behind bars, she learned the law from scratch. Because goes, oh God, her and that jailhouse lawyer. And as she fought for herself, she also became a lifeline for the women locked up alongside her. You're supposed to have faith in God, but I had nothing but faith in her. So many of these women had lived the same stories. I said, were you a victim of domestic violence? And she was like, yeah.

But maybe Kelly could change the ending. I said, how many people have gotten other incarcerated individuals out of here? I'm going to be the first one to do that. This is the story of Kelly Harnett, a woman who spent 12 years fighting not just for her own freedom, but her girlfriends too. I think I have a mission from God to save souls by getting people out of prison.

The Girlfriends, Jailhouse Lawyer. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So what happened at Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you talk to. There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond. And left a woman behind to drown. There's a famous headline, I think in the New York Daily News, it's, Teddy escapes, blonde drowns.

And in a strange way, right, that sort of tells you the story really became about Ted's political future, Ted's political hopes. Will Ted become president? Chappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control. And he's not the only Kennedy to survive a scandal. The Kennedys have lived through disgrace, affairs, violence, you name it. So is there a curse? Every week we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family. Listen to United States of Kennedy

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Just like great shoes, great books take you places. Through unforgettable love stories and into conversations with characters you'll never forget. I think any good romance, it gives me this feeling of like butterflies. I'm Danielle Robay, and this is Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club, the new podcast from

Hello Sunshine and iHeart Podcasts. Every week I sit down with your favorite book lovers, authors, celebrities, book talkers, and more to explore the stories that shape us on the page and off. I've been reading every Reese's Book Club pick, deep diving book talk theories, and obsessing over book to screen casts for years. And now I get to talk to the people making the magic.

So if you've ever fallen in love with a fictional character or cried at the last chapter or passed a book to a friend saying you have to read this. This podcast is for you. Listen to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. American history is full of wise people. Well women said something like, you know, 99.99% of war is diarrhea

and 1% is glory. Those founding fathers were gossipy AF and they loved to cut each other down. I'm Bob Crawford, host of American History Hotline, the show where you send us your questions about American history and I find the answers, including the nuggets of wisdom our history has to offer. You send us your questions about American history and I find the answers, including the nuggets of wisdom our history has to offer.

Hamilton pauses and then he says, the greatest man that ever lived was Julius Caesar. And Jefferson writes in his diary, this proves that Hamilton is for a dictator based on corruption. My favorite line was what Neil Armstrong said, it would have been harder to fake it than to do it. Listen to American History Hotline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Dr. Joy Harden-Bradford, and in Session 421 of Therapy for Black Girls, I sit down with Dr. Afiya and Billy Shaka to explore how our hair connects to our identity,

mental health, and the ways we heal. Because I think hair is a complex language system, right? In terms of it can tell how old you are, your marital status, where you're from, your spiritual belief. But I think with social media, there's like a hyper fixation and observation of our hair, right?

That this is sometimes the first thing someone sees when we make a post or a reel is how our hair is styled. We talk about the important role hairstylists play in our communities, the pressure to always look put together, and how breaking up with perfection can actually free us. Plus, if you're someone who gets anxious about flying, don't miss session 418 with Dr. Angela Neal-Barnett, where we dive into managing flight anxiety. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. ["Principle of the Heart"] It's just crazy to think about, I mean, there's something so adorably kind of humble and New York-ish about the fact that we filmed those two shows. We started in 97 or whatever year, I think that was the year of our pilots. We filmed in an old bread factory that was not supposed to be a studio by HBO, who was not supposed to be a player. You know what I mean? Obviously turned into one,

thank God. But just the humbleness of it all in the beginning. Well I have really, I mean I agree with you, that was really, I mean that's well put. There was something about that, particularly my first season before The Sopranos was hit and Sex and the City, which was, I guess it was the second season. There was something about that that I sometimes refer to as the best summer job I ever had. What I did last summer, I went to write those little things when you were a kid. It was really like, I remember walking out and the teamsters would be kind of leaning back in their folding chairs with a TV

they'd set up because there was a Yankees were on, were playing and it was just like, this is, I remember thinking this is the best job you could have, you know, or you're doing the sopranos and then you're doing Sex and the City. I just felt so privileged to be, you know, basically shuttling between those two shows. Yeah. Yeah, the World Cup, you know, with the greatest view of the City, I just felt so privileged to be, you know, basically shuttling between those two shows.

Yeah. Yeah. The World Cup, you know, with the greatest view of the city you could have possibly imagined. Yes. Looked like a backdrop for a play about New York, you know, except for the Greek. And I just, and so I agree with you. There was something about that, aside from the fact that you got blocked from partaking of the food. It's okay.

You know what? Everybody on the Sopranos after the first season gained weight. If you look at the second season. How could you not? It was incredible. It was incredible. Yeah, I mean, it was just, you know, and then I still remember, not to talk about the Sopranos, but I do remember.

It's fun. I mean, it's the cousin of your show. Yeah. It's that I remember we were shooting a scene at the Badabing, the so-called back room of the Badabing where they're all having lunch and pasta and stuff. And so when you do shoot an eating scene, and this would be true of Sex and the City,

you always have a spit bucket so that people don't have to eat all this food and they just pretend to eat and then they just spit it out at the end of the take. So we're shooting that and I go over and I was looking at the guys and the guys had the spit bucket up on the table there, but it's completely clean. I said, what's the deal there? He said, they just eat everything. He said, they don't spit anything.

So we did like four takes and they would eat four meals. Wow, wow. You know what? I think that's a theme because people have asked me about the spit bucket thing. We never ever used a spit bucket. But I think it was because Michael and I feel like also Darren really wanted us to eat and keep talking, right?

So like we didn't really have the opportunity to be like, okay, spit, you know, and we would order something that wasn't going to be insane, right? For eight million hundred takes or whatever. But like you remember how they love to have Cynthia with her mouth open, like literally like, you know, which she was game to do. Yeah. You guys did that very well because it is hard for actors to eat and talk. And it's always a challenge. And you guys, all four of you really make you never question it.

It just it's just these women are just eating and talking and you never think about it. And somebody wisely decided not to serve Bobby like spinach or something. So you didn't get a green. But I mean, one time they have that storyline for Cynthia. Like, they were just like, listen, let Cynthia do all that stuff. And she does, she does. She has no like self-consciousness about these things.

God bless her. All right, back to the show, cause that was really fun. Okay, so we're, oh wait. See, one of the things I love about your episodes is that when I'm watching my own development as Charlotte and kind of easing into like my body, like being really present and letting go of some of the anxiety that I have in the first season, we're in the car after the funeral.

It's Sarah, Jessica, Kim and I, and we're just chatting. We all fit in the back seat. We must've been in some big old car and you somehow lit us beautifully in the back of this car. I don't know how. I don't really remember filming this, which sometimes I do remember like in the older cars, you could get in the front seat with the camera.

And is that what you did? Do you remember? Yeah. I don't remember. I mean, I think Michael Spiller, I'm sure. We should ask Michael Spiller. Yes. He gets credit for the lighting.

I mean, yeah. And yeah, we probably are in the front of a, I can't remember if it's the limo in which case. I think it is. I think it is. I think, but again, you would have had to make sure that it was not a partition so you could get the camera there. Right, right.

And I think at that point we were not allowed to shoot kind of the wider format that we eventually did on the Combos, 178 or whatever it was. Right, right. But originally it was a narrower format, so it was always hard to get three people. Really hard, I know, that's what I was saying. I was like, I can't believe we're all here

and we all look great, that's amazing. And it's very, it's like the beginning of Charlotte, like also at the dinner scene when I, they talk about Miranda saying, you know, that she's buying her apartment. And I say, oh no, you know, it messes up the power structure between men and women. You have to rent.

That's why I rent. Like it's a crazy, crazy conversation. But the good news is they just giggle at me so lovingly. They don't roll their eyes. You know what I mean? They're just, oh, that's Charlotte, you know? But it's interesting because as much as I don't agree with my own character's point of view at those moments,

it is actually kind of makes some sense, you know, from that perspective, right? Because like here Miranda is thinking like, I'm buying apartments, it's amazing. Yet everyone's just doubting her and doubting her and doubting her and sent her down a road of like, self doubt where she has panic attacks and she's going to die alone, you know, which is what society will do to you. You know what I mean? Yeah, so show this kind of the voice of that

in in in some ways, which is not not unimportant, you know, but at the time, I remember being like, oh no, I don't want to say this, you know? Because I'm not really like that, right? But it's important, I think, to have the different point of views. And I think that's part of what was great about the show. Well, I think, I mean, your character, I mean, really,

she, Charlotte, she really stands apart from the other three because they tend to be all pretty much in agreement. I mean if they disagree of course but but she really is always just tagging along I mean just you know they're either they're somehow either correcting you or sort of gently teasing you or can't believe that you know I mean even when you decide you've had it with men and you're just gonna get a dog, they're pretty gentle about all those things. I think that, now I love the way it's handled

because Charlotte is never treated poorly by any of the women this time. No. Remember, just, but she is clearly following her own drummer. I mean, that's for sure. Right, which is actually really strong in so many ways, you know, when I look back on it. I mean, I did know, like, I don't think you had to direct any of the ones where I really

give like a long, long speech, like a didactic, like I have one where I have the book, I haven't gotten into it yet in the rewatch, but I have a book about how to get a husband or something kind of like horrific. And I'm like, for like wah, wah, wah, wah, for like a page and a half, you know, and they have to just sit there and you know that they don't agree with it, right? But I just keep going

because that's how Charlotte believes, you know, like she believes 100%. Which I love that, but it's also hard. Yeah, but it's a good quality, I never thought of that. It's a nice quality about her is that she's very committed to whatever her latest thing is, whether it's a dog or you know she just she just goes full ahead. Definitely, most definitely. And like with that that's what I also like about the Widow storyline in this episode, it makes such

good emotional sense that this is interesting to her. Like when we're walking down the street, which I do remember shooting with Kurt Deutsch plays the guy and I remember him struggling a little bit. I hope this is okay that I'm saying this with the, he's supposed to be crying and this turned Charlotte on. And I remember, I feel like you guys had a conversation about the fact that he might be putting it on. Yeah, I wondered about that when I was watching it

and I thought, I'm not sure. I don't remember what I had said to him, but I had the feeling when I was watching it, it's like, yeah, I'm not convinced that this guy is really feeling this, you know? And he's a good factor that if he needed to, he could, but. Right. It may be one of those things, again, I just don't remember quite what the he could, but it may be one of those things,

again, I just don't remember quite what the conversation was, but it could be one of those things where it's like there's some reality to it, but he just milks it. Right. Well, because in the end, when all the other women get out of the car to come to this ceremony at the wife's grave and they all have the lilies, and that's when I beat them with the lilies and sorry, I gave you a terrible allergy but that's it was perfect I'm glad I'm glad but that's that's it all makes sense when you when you think it through right because he very well was milking it but I do remember I remember him

being stressed and somehow you saying something to him that freed him to do the scene you know like there are layers, you know, like there's different ways to come at it. Yeah, I think that, but he, yeah, no, but it's a sweet scene in a way, you know, I mean, Charlotte is so taken with his, you know, vulnerability. Right, which makes perfect sense for her. Like, it's good. I liked it. I hadn't remembered this as one of my, the main thing I remembered about this episode was the rain and the hill and running my shoes and being

cold. And then when I look back on it, I'm like, no, no, this is like real, it's a big step forward in characters, Charlotte's character development, because every element of that makes sense, right? She goes to the girls. First of all, she says, you know, you've got to rent because the power dynamic. Then she says, no, no, he's full of feeling. You know, he's been through this thing. It shows he can commit, but yet he's vulnerable. And then, you know, he cries on the street and she's like, oh, you know, she wants to mother so badly, you know, which I don't think she realizes in an intellectual way, but you see it. Like it's a great episode for her and I'm so happy that you were there so that it

could be good. Well, I will say that what you just made me think is that Charlotte really is an interesting character and that she's always, she's willing for a person who's essentially cautious and conservative, she's always trying new things. She's willing to try something. She's very game about the next thing that she's gonna do. So true. And then fully commits to that new adventure in the search for Charlotte.

It's so true. It's so true, especially in the early days, you know, and it's interesting as she's developed and as we go and obviously many, many things happen and I'm still playing her. And sometimes when I look back, I'm like, I need to remember this stuff, like, you know, cause I'm still playing her, right?

I mean, it's in me, but like sometimes there's little details that I forget and it's super fascinating. Oh my God, there's another time when Miranda thinks she's going to die by herself. And she talks to, she calls Carrie and Carrie is screening her calls because Big has been calling her after she called Big.

I'm out of order now, but this is how I roll. And Carrie, sorry, sorry. Miranda says to Carrie, it's such a very rare moment. She says, you know, on my emergency list, I have my parents, but I don't even like them, and they live in Pennsylvania. And Carrie says, why don't you have me? And Miranda says, I can't put you

because you screen your calls. This is when she's had to go to the hospital with a panic attack. It's such a great scene and it's so powerful. And I don't remember her ever previously saying, my parents are in Pennsylvania and I don't like them. Like, it's so fascinating. Well, that's funny, but I had forgotten that.

And now that you're saying it, I'd forgotten that. But also too, technologically, it must be interesting for people to watch it now. Because there's scenes in payphone booths. I mean, there's one scene in fact where Carrie calls from a phone booth and I had decided to have it raining. Yes.

Uh, because I wanted to, again, this is a, you know, inside of baseball here, but I like the suggestion of tears on the, on the, and I think she's pretty emotional in that it's when she, we think she's calling big, she runs off from maybe Bradley Cooper, she runs off from, maybe Bradley Cooper. She runs off from somebody and she runs to the phone booth and you think she's, she's like, I had to call and you think she's calling big, but she's calling Miranda.

It's so good. I know it's great. And then it's raining there too. You know, it's on the windows and it just, I always liked to include and I did it a good deal or like whenever I could on Sex and the City of including weather because it's it's it's got a sensual quality and when you watch movies when there's rain or there's you know it really you feel it and it makes the and it makes the events feel more relatable.

Because you know, and it's visually really interesting too. And it was just better to see her through the refracted light of the raindrops on the glass and you know, and so on. Definitely, but see, you just gave yourself away because you said we had to give credit to Spiller for the lighting. No, you are the mastermind. I knew it. I knew it. Because there's such a difference. Like, because obviously everyone's working together. It's a true

collaboration, right? But you up everybody's game when you have a vision. Well, that's, I'd like to think that. I, I, I did a, when I was just getting started, I did this show called New York Undercover. Oh yeah. And there was a DP on that. And he later became an executive producer on Criminal Minds, I think. And I went by for another reason, that I was trying to help a woman who I was trying to sort of help her get started as a director. And so I went over there to say, you should have this person's shadow or whatever.

And we ended up in a conversation and he said something to me that at the time I wasn't sure how to take it, but I think it was a good thing. He meant it well. And that was he said, every time you would come to do an episode, I would get nervous. Because I was never sure I could do what you wanted. Oh, that's sweet though. It was, in retrospect it was like, oh, okay, good. So I was challenging him and under limited circumstances

and that's not a show that was noted for its look. But anyway, he said that and I thought, well, good. It's a great thing, it's a great thing. I think with actors, I've known different actors, some of whom want to feel that way from a director and some of whom, it might make us shut down. I feel like with you, the thing that you did that I loved,

especially at the timing that you came, when we were like with you, the thing that you did that I loved, especially at the timing that you came, right? When we were like all possibility, you know what I mean? I felt like we were excited and ready to play and ready to do all this stuff, but we needed guidance. We needed to get like coalesced into what we became. And you were a big part of that. And for me, I felt like technically, like that scene you said where we had to find the lens and kind of find the reason that we would walk to that person.

Like stuff like that is really like, ooh, oh, we get to, we have to think and we have to do this and we have to remember. And, you know, there's like an extra added technical challenge, which is really fun. But then from an emotional standpoint, you're very safe feeling. Like, like we can ask you anything, we can talk to you, we can, we don't have to

feel like, oh we've got to keep our personal stuff in check and just perform, which you do feel with some directors, you know, which I don't, I don't love that feeling. I'm glad that that comes across. I really do truly with almost no exceptions. I can think of two, but other than that, of all the things I've done, I just love working with actors. I really like to be around actors. I like to feel that it's fun and that it's game.

And I do think, maybe not quite consciously, I'm not going to let anything bad happen. Right. But we can feel that. That's great because I just want everybody to have fun and to feel relaxed. I'm sure there are directors who get great results by creating massive tension on the set, but I'm not one of them. I mean, I like- No, you're not, thank God. We didn't need that.

We didn't need that. We had to walk in those shoes. We had to do all kinds of craziness. We didn't need any extra added element from a director. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. ["The New York Times"] Kelly Harnett spent over a decade in prison for a murder she says she didn't commit.

I'm 100% innocent. While behind bars, she learned the law from scratch. Because oh God, Harnett, jailhouse lawyer. And as she fought for herself, she also became a lifeline for the women locked up alongside her. You're supposed to have faith in God, but I had nothing but faith in her. So many of these women had lived the same stories. I said, were you a victim of domestic violence?

And she was like, yeah. But maybe Kelly could change the ending. I said, how many people have gotten other incarcerated individuals out of here? I'm going to be the first one to do that. This is the story of Kelly Harnett, a woman who spent 12 years fighting not just for her own freedom, but her girlfriends too. I think I have a mission from God to save souls by getting people out of prison. The Girlfriends, Jailhouse Lawyer. people out of prison? The girlfriends, jailhouse lawyer. Listen on the iHeart radio app, Apple

podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. So what happened at Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you talk to. There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond. And left a woman behind to drown. There's a famous headline, I think, in the New York Daily News. It's, Teddy escapes, blonde drowns. And in a strange way, right, that sort of tells you.

The story really became about Ted's political future, Ted's political hopes. Will Ted become president? Chappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control. And he's not the only Kennedy to survive a scandal. The Kennedys have lived through disgrace, affairs, violence, you name it. So is there a curse? Every week we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family. Listen to United States of Kennedy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

you get your podcasts. Just like great shoes, great books take you places through unforgettable love stories and into conversations with characters you'll never forget. I think any good romance, it gives me this feeling of like butterflies. I'm Danielle Robay and this is Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club, the new podcast from Hello Sunshine and iHeart Podcasts. Every week I sit down with your favorite book lovers, authors, celebrities, book talkers, and more to explore the stories that shape us, on the page and off.

I've been reading every Reese's Book Club pick, deep diving book talk theories, and obsessing over book to screen casts for years. And now, I get to talk to the people making the magic. So if you've ever fallen in love with a fictional character, or cried at the last chapter, or passed a book to a friend saying, you have to read this, this podcast is for you. Listen to Book Marked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. American history is full of wise people. Well women said something like, you know, 99.99% of war is diarrhea and 1% is gory.

Those founding fathers were gossipy AF and they loved to cut each other down. I'm Bob Crawford, host of American History Hotline, the show where you send us your questions about American history and I find the answers, including the nuggets of wisdom our history has to offer. Hamilton pauses and then he says, the greatest man that ever lived was Julius Caesar and Jefferson writes in his diary This proves that Hamilton is for a dictator based on corruption My favorite line was what Neil Armstrong said it would have been harder to fake it than to do it Listen to American history hotline on the I heart radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts

radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Dr. Joy Harden-Bradford. And in session 421 of therapy for black girls, I sit down with Dr. Afiya and Billy Shaka to explore how our hair connects to our identity, mental health, and the ways we heal. Because I think hair is a complex language system, right? In terms of it can tell how old you are, your marital status, where you're from, your spiritual belief. But I think with social media, there's like a hyper fixation

and observation of our hair, right? That this is sometimes the first thing someone sees when we make a post or a reel is how our hair is styled. We talk about the important role hairylists play in our communities, the pressure to always look put together, and how breaking up with perfection can actually free us. Plus, if you're someone who gets anxious about flying, don't miss Session 418 with Dr. Angela Neal-Barnett,

where we dive into managing flight anxiety. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. ["Planet of the Apes"] Sometimes my guest is more interesting to me than my paper, and you are one of that times. So my listeners, please bear with me. I'm gonna try to hit the main parts.

I mean, I feel there's so many important things that happened in this episode, but I feel one of them is the Miranda, which we have kind of hit on, and I feel like it's so great because it really sets up so much of her future development, right? That she's afraid she's gonna die alone

and that her cat's gonna eat her face. It's like, so, ugh, ugh, but she's so good at it. And also funny at the same time, like when she's almost choking, she's really funny. She is. I mean, you, yeah, she does. She finds a way to do that. That's amusing and it's not alarming, but right.

Cause it could be very scary. Cause I knew what was coming. I remember I was like, oh my God, this one, she almost jokes, but she's really, really funny. And then the other thing that is so good. I mean, so many things are so good, but I love because I have previously been struggling with the big relationship in first season. And a lot of this has to do with the fact that, you know, we filmed the pilot 1997. And back then, you didn't really talk about withholding men so much. It was just like kind of how it was. You know what I'm saying? Like, we didn't have

the social media vocabulary of like, blah, blah blah blah, you're better than that girl, whatever. I don't know. You know what I'm saying? It's different times. And my own perspective is different being older, right? And back then I just, I think I also feel that, you know, Charlotte was very pro-big. And so I don't think that I questioned it because I play Charlotte, and I just was like, yes, of course I'm pro-big. Why wouldn't I be? You know what I'm saying? Like, you gotta play the character. You gotta commit. So I think I did, and now I'm looking back on it going like,

Carrie deserves better. That's how I felt the whole first season. But this episode, what I see when I look at them, and I think this is because of this this this vibe that you're able to create He is a completely different much more likable relatable charming

Character like when they go bowling it is like an epiphany Yeah, it is an incredible scene. I love that scene. I just watched it last night and I mean, they're both so cute. Oh my God. Which after she, I mean. It's real. It's real. You can tell that's Sarah Jessica. Oh yeah.

That's, I mean, and she's just adorable. I mean, she really is. She really is. And it's like, I've forgotten how adorable she is. Right. On and off screen, of course. Yes! My relationship with her primarily was on screen.

And just watching that is like, she's so cute and so friggin' funny. And then, and so is Chris. I mean, he's, you go, oh, that's why she likes him. Yes, exactly. That's why she likes him. Yes, exactly. That's why she likes him. Yes, thank God. He's funny, he's sexy, he's good looking. I mean he's all those things and she is too and so I mean and the chemistry between the two of them is so palpable you know and of course there's the scene

it's not that episode but where they fall in the lake, you know, and it's a very 1930s movie moment. It's so great. It's like something Catherine Hepburn would do. And they're charming in that. I mean, they're just, these two human beings adore each other and have fun. And that's why I like that scene I mentioned on the bed,

when they just talk. You just think, you know, they can't, as she says, it's like that red wall. It's a good idea, but it just doesn't work. And that's the nature of that relationship. But you're right. I mean, I think that scene, that bowling scene is really charming.

I mean, it's incredible. And it's the first time that I finally felt like, because also it's so hard to really separate the people from the characters, right? Because obviously we were all together, and I know them and whatnot. But when I'm watching it, because there's been kind of this fan upset about Carrie and Carrie Big

together, whatever. And I've always been like, what are they talking about? But when I watch it back, I can kind of see from the lens of 2025, why they're like, why is she with him or why does she want him or why does she put up with that? But then by the time we get to this bowling scene, because of the ease, there's like an ease that I don't think,

I mean, I think the chemistry was there since the pilot, obviously, right? And she's her incredibly sparkly charming self when you're on her. And he's his incredibly charismatic, slightly covered self when you're on him. And you can feel that there's something between them. But in this scene, the bowling scene,

and the sequence leading up to the bowling scene, like they have dinner and it's super sexy and all that, but the bowling scene, if you just take that out and look at it, it's like gangbusters. I mean, I could put it against any film scene of anyone in a romantic comedy or not. It's amazing. Yeah, that's nice.

Yeah, I adored the scene when I saw it last night. And I sort of was looking at it like I had nothing to do with it. You know, it's like objectively, they're charming and they're swell together. And, you know, and there is some moments I understand. I mean, we live in a different world now and the world in which it's very easy to judge the past from the superior position of the present, something I find frankly annoying at the time. I get it.

No, just because it's like, you know, people feel like they know so much more than the ignoramuses who lived 20 years ago, who lived through it 20, 30 years ago. No, but you're a part, we're all a part of the period we live in. I mean, people will look back at those people who were standing in judgment earlier generations

and go, what's wrong with them? You know, I mean, every generation looks back on the previous generations and judges them. Unfortunately, I think that judgment is, I'm not gonna hold on to pontificate here, but. Go for it. Well, it's just people tend to judge it doesn't matter I mean everybody's a critic everybody's a judge everybody's got knows more everybody's smarter everybody's you know would never make those mistakes which is just absurd. I

mean you live in the time you live in and just like we're living in one now. Right. And those who stand in judgment in the past will look as absurd, frankly, in the future as to another generation as they find that people like the character of Big looks to them. You know, it seems a different. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I mean, that's another reason I wanted to do the podcast is because I think it's super interesting, you know, to look at what's different, what's the same, but I don't want to judge. And someone went on my podcast Instagram and said, you know, what's your problem with Big and Carrie? You keep talking about it. No, no, no. I'm just trying to understand it. I don't, I'm not, I don't, I mean, we made the show we made. I love the show we made.

Like, obviously I would never do a podcast about it if I didn't love it. I'm still doing the show. You know what I'm saying? Like, I love it, obviously. But this person said, you're being disrespectful. I'm like, no, I don't actually think I'm being disrespectful. I'm just trying to look at it, right?

And I see positives and negatives. Like there, it's a complex picture, you know what I mean? Yeah, there are things that you would do different. I mean look, you know, everybody in our game would do something different, would not be satisfied with their own work, would do something different. But we don't, you know, in hindsight, but you're not allowed to shoot something and see it from the perspective of someone 20 years later and judge it. You just have to do it and do the best you can. Right. And the thing is, it's amazing. Like, that's what I love. Like, you know, thank God, right? Since I hadn't really seen it since way back. I'm like, well, thank God. Even the first

season that I in my mind had thought was like a hot mess, right? I look back and there's so much good in it. And yes, we're not, it hasn't gelled, I would say, but the pieces are there, right? And you're looking at it and you're like, where are they? Where's the light? But there's something so charming about that. And charming about the fact that we were allowed to find ourselves. We were allowed to develop and keep going. And everyone involved wanted to be better, right? So we're all in it together and then we're adding elements like

you like thank God for Michael Hill going, yeah, let's get Alan Coulter over here, you know? Well, thank God. Yeah, and thank God I had a great relationship with Michael too. I mean, Yeah, because he held the purse strings. He did. But he was great. I mean, yeah, because he held the purse strings. He did. But he was great. I mean, he was really, and, and, uh, and the other Michael, Michael Patrick, you know, with him was great. And so I felt, you know, free to be free to be me. I mean, free to do that. And you made us feel free.

And that's really like such a powerful, powerful thing as an actor in any circumstance, but especially in the circumstance where we were really at that point building something. We were in like a growth phase, like a building phase, where I think we knew it on some level that we had so much great stuff available to us, but it hadn't really found like, like gelled in like a hundred percent, but we're right on the edge of it. And then you come and I see it hadn't really, you know, found like, you know, like gelled in like 100%,

but we're right on the edge of it. And then you come in, I see it all bump up like so much, you know, visually, emotionally, like our bodies are more calm, you know, just because of what you've created on the set, which is the power of a director, you know, you can create tension, you can create fear, you know, some people do that, that's their way. This is what I love so much about you, so many things, but number one, your vision was, you know, so elevated for us. Like you took our show to the next level visually. Right. And in terms of the storytelling and the way that you included these elements, and just talking to you,

you're telling me so many other details that I hadn't even realized that now I have to go back and look again, which is that's what you want, right? But then also just what for an as an actor, I can say you created a confidence in me, like a trust that I could do it, you know, so like I was challenged, but at the same time I felt like, oh, yes, I can, I can do this. I can play Charlotte. And when I look at myself on screen, like my shoulders are down, like my voice is calmer.

I mean, I'm still her, right? But there's a level of ease that I didn't have till you came. So thank you. I'm thrilled to hear that really. It was really, it was such a pleasure to work with you and the other women. I mean, it was just, I was so happy to be there

and it was just a pleasure. I mean, I was coming from a very dark world, next door, literally next door, where the food was protected and the cold was, and it was a dark vision and it was like a big, I mean, I loved everybody. Of course. It was a big dysfunctional Italian family.

And with all the things that came with that. And then I would come over to Sex and the City and it was like, oh, this is such a relief. And it's. That's so nice to hear. That's so nice to hear. I just remember also just like the funny like, cock-a-doodle-doo, like you brought so much charm

just in your person. Do you know what I mean? Ooh, it was good, it was good. And I remember, I mean, I just forgot, and then I just saw it in one of the early, maybe the first episode I directed, I can't remember. There was something, I was trying to get the background to guide to do something, and I couldn't get him to do it, I just explained it to him a bunch of times,

and I was just kind of losing my patience, and Sarah Jessica said,'t get him to do it. I just explained it to him a bunch of times and I was just kind of losing my patience and Sarah Jessica said, well you just do it. So there is a moment. Yes, you're standing on the street and she bumps into you. Yeah, yeah. Yes, it was so good. I remember that too and I remember thinking how did that happen because I don't think of you as being a director who's like trying to be in the show. You know what I'm saying? Not at all. believe me. I would say. Right. But it's so good. It's so perfect. And there's one time too,

and I don't think this was one you directed, but Spiller one time is a guy on the street talking to the camera. Like it's so funny. And then one time, Camille, who was in casting is one of the people, there's so many people that I think back then we were just like rolling as quick as we could, right?

So if like something happened with an actor, we were like, just get in there. It is really fun. Alan, you're a joy. I'm not even going to try to rewatch anymore because we covered our bases. We covered all the important things. That's great. I'm so glad. Thank you. I'm very honored that you asked me to do this. Thank you. You're my first director. That's not Michael Patrick King, who's been on. So thank you very much. I'm honored. I'm honored and I'm

flattered that you asked me and it was fun to do and you look fantastic by the way. I don't know. Whatever you're doing, keep doing it. I have some big lights on me as you can see in my glasses when I move around. But thank you so much. I also would like to live in your house. It's very beautiful and you look great. And I'm so happy that you're living up there and I hope you're happy. I am, thank you so much, Kristin. Good, well, just know that we love you

and we think about you. And sometimes we quote you on the set of and just like that. I'm so happy to hear that. And please give my love to the whole gang. I will, I will. You should come back and be with us. I adore them all. I'm so glad. I'm so glad. We adore you back.

Okay. Nice to see you. Thank you for coming. Okay. See you. Bye. Okay. Bye. The Girlfriends is back with a new season and this time I'm telling you the story of Kelly Harnett. Kelly spent over a decade in prison for a murder she says she didn't commit. As she fought for her freedom, she taught herself the law.

He goes, oh God, Harnett, jailhouse lawyer. And became a beacon of hope for the women locked up alongside her. You're supposed to have faith in God, but I had nothing but faith in her. I think I was put here to save souls by getting people out of prison. The Girlfriends, Jailhouse Lawyer. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Just like great shoes, great books take you places. Through unforgettable love stories and into conversations with characters you'll never forget.

I think any good romance, it gives me this feeling of like butterflies. I'm Danielle Robay, and this is Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club, the new podcast from Hello Sunshine and iHeart Podcasts, where we dive into the stories that shape us, on the page and off. Each week, I'm joined by authors, celebs, book talk stars, and more for conversations that will make you laugh, cry, and add way too many books to your TBR pile. Listen to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Join iHeartRadio and Sarah Spayne in celebrating the one-year anniversary of iHeart Women's Sports. With powerful interviews and insider analysis, our shows have connected fans with the heart of women's sports. In just one year, the network has launched 15 shows

and built a community united by passion. Podcasts that amplify the voices of women in sports. Thank you for supporting iHeart Women's Sports and our founding sponsors, Elf Beauty, Capital One, and Novartis. Just open the free iHeart app and search iHeart Women's Sports to listen now. I knew I wanted to obey and submit, but I didn't fully grasp for the rest of my life what that meant. For My Heart Podcasts and Rococo Punch, this is the turning, River Road.

In the woods of Minnesota, a cult leader married himself to 10 girls and forced them into a secret life of abuse. But in 2014, the youngest escaped. Listen to The Turning, River Road on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So what happened at Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you talk to.

There are many versions of what happened at Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you talk to. There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond. And left a woman behind to drown. Chappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control. Every week, we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family. Listen to United States of Kennedy

on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast.