Are You A Charlotte? - “You look great? That was not one of the things I told you to say.” (S4 E8 "My Motherboard, My Self")

Episode Date: May 4, 2026

“ I think now we know what $500 worth of glitter looks like”“You don’t back up?”“There is the kind of support you ask for.  And, the kind of support you don’t ask for.  And then, there’s the kind that just shows up”“The best we can do is breathe and reboot.”The unforgettable lines were written by Julie Rottenberg and Elisa Zuritsky and they join Kristin to discuss one of the best episodes of  the entire series.Julie and Elisa share every detail about this brilliant episode that left us all in tears.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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It's such a big day. When I tell you that I have been waiting so long. this to happen. You and me both. I mean, right, you guys, who are listening today for the first time, we are welcoming Julie and Elisa, who are our favorite girl partnership writers that we love so much. That was a brilliant save you just did. I know.

So it's not to say we're your favorite writers, we're your favorite team. Right, because I don't want to get in trouble. But you guys have a very. There haven't been any other team writers on the show. Exactly. You have a very special place in the history of our show, but also to me personally. So I have been counting the days for so many reasons. And I mean, for one thing, I think I should just say right up front that Julie and Elisa were hugely integral to and just like that. And I feel very much like so close to them as a result because they are both mothers.

They live in Brooklyn. Charlotte got a lot of good mom. A lot of the trauma of our lives we were able to share with Chris. I wasn't going to use that word. But yes, you guys, you gave a lot. You became our spirit animal for motherhood, domestic, bliss and hell. Yes, and I love that so much. And it was such a, like, because when you came on to Sex and the City, it was this fourth season.

Yeah. Which, as I've told my listeners before, I have a bit of a blackout. Yes. I can't remember. That's so interesting. I was so, yeah. I just heard you talking about that. First of all, let's just say it.

That was, it wasn't just our first episode of sex in the city, which in and of itself would be huge. That was our first TV job ever. Which is insane. And wait, let's be the first thing I ever wrote for TV. The episode we are discussing is my motherboard myself. Yeah. Which is literally possibly our best episode ever written.

Like the fact that. That was your first TV job. It's insane. We acknowledge that. How did it happen? Oh, my God. The episode or, yeah. That you came to us.

Oh, gosh. There's, how much I did it. I mean, I don't even know. I don't know. The short answer is that we were, we happened to be in the very beginning of our careers, we were at the same agency as Darren. Uh-huh. And we were in L.A. We had this little development deal with Studios USA,

and we were pitching this little cute sitcom. Okay. We had come up with and we pitched it to all the networks. And then right before we were set to fly back to New York, our agent said, oh, Darren Starr wants to meet with you guys before you go back. Adorable. And Julie had the famous response.

I being an idiot, said, because he said he wants to meet with you guys a Thursday morning. And I was like, oh, too bad. We're flying back Wednesday night. I love you guys. And he literally said, change your flight. Sleep on my kids' floor if you have to. You are not missing that meeting. We had nothing in New York that was waiting for him.

We had no families, we had no kids, nothing. I give him a lot of credit. And that just shows how incredible. Matt Solo. Matt Solo. Thank you, Matt Solo. Good job. So we changed our flight.

We slept on another friend's floor, actually. And we literally, with our suitcases, arrived the next morning, and we met Michael, Darren, Jenny, and Cindy. And at that point, we were fans. We were just the biggest fans. I think they were writing season three. So they were in the writers room in L.A. Got it. And just to be in the same room with them was an honor.

And we were dying. We were like just like peeing ourselves with excitement. So that felt like the victory. Like we just got to meet them and tell them how much we loved the show. And then we went back to our lives. And of course that pilot didn't go. And we figured like we're done. That was it.

That was over. We took a shot. We'll go back to our day jobs. And lo and behold, like a year later, Michael actually hired us. And we were like, you mean to bring coffee to people? Like, really? It was like. Yeah.

I love you guys. So we're going to sweep, we're going to sweep the floor where they are. So then, so did you come to the writer's rooms? So yeah, and we had like five days. Like we heard on a Monday that he was going to hire us and that we had to like be in L.A. And like Thursday. Like, it was like being shot out of a canon. Yeah.

A very exciting canon that we still, we got there and we were like, is this a mistake? And like, we'll definitely get fired on the first day. And then we learned that Michael Patrick's favorite joke is, you're fired. Like with writers. He would say that does all the time. Happening all the time. He would like, poke his head into our office and be like, you're fired. Oh, my God.

Michael Patrick. But anyway, back to the writer's room. So this is season four. We're there for the first time at our very first, you know, TV job, just like pinching ourselves. And of course, we had gathered a whole bunch of our. our own stories and ideas and things that happened to us and what might work in the show. Did they ask you to do that? No.

Okay. You just didn't prepare. Julie has notes for this podcast. That's true. Okay, fair enough. I have notes for this podcast. And I say that? No, you're prepared.

You are a good student. It's fantastic. So we were all. And we were coming up with ideas and themes, too, because sex and city was so thematic. Right. So literally, I think maybe the first day, maybe the second day. We each shared. We had these separate stories around support.

My MacBook had crashed, and I went to TechServe with my very loving, wonderful boyfriend, who I was so irritated by, even though all he was doing was trying to help me. I told this story about TechServe of my Mac and support and tech support. Elisa. I had just been brushed. shopping for no for just no reason in Philadelphia at Saks Fifth Avenue and the bra salesperson was extremely handsy and you know did all the measurement and and I was like Miranda I was with my mom which was interesting now looking back but I remember being irritated by the woman because it was

more than I had asked for and she was telling me that I was shopping. that I was shopping for the wrong size and here's what, here's what you should do. And then I left and I felt like a new person. I was like, oh, I can see now. I can, you know, breathe underwater. And so we linked those two, those support, support and tech support. And Michael, because he knew, in his mind, he knew he wanted Miranda's mother to die at some point. I guess we should mention this is the episode where Miranda's mom dies. And he looked at the board and he looked at the board and He was like somewhere around there. And suddenly the idea of tech support, bra support, friendship support.

Yeah. How do we help each other in these different ways? And then it just like click together. Gives me chills. No, it was, it was to this day, like it was the luckiest. It was a very, very lucky. It was a gift because, I mean, and we didn't know, we didn't know anything, really. I mean, obviously we wrote and we knew how to do that,

but what Michael and Cindy and Jenny and everyone else there did, what we did in the room together was build, help to build out the episodes and the structure and the beats of the story. You know, what's Charlotte's story going to be? How does Samantha's bring into that? That was also something we were excited to do because, like Samantha, obviously, has a ton of sex, is having orgasms like a hundred

in an episode. And I remember, like, I really wanted to do an episode where it actually wasn't that easy for her to have an orgasm. And actually it was, like, felt impossible. And all the comedy around that. And watching it again, oh, my God. I mean, we should mention Michael Engler directed this episode, like, so tremendous job. Beautifully. And again, we were, we were so new. like we didn't even know how lucky we were, but of course, he did this incredible job. But even things like looking back, so every episode, obviously there's a question. But guess what's missing from this episode? Is there no question?

There's no question. The only one. I didn't realize. We killed ourselves writing that question. We wrote it forever on a day. And Michael kept rejecting it and kept rejecting it. I'll just say all I remember is there were Doc Martins that were mentioned. Oh, yeah.

Support. This rings a bell. It was shot because... We shot it with Sarah Jessica. Okay. Yes. But we had so much trouble circling this question around support. I should have pulled up the...

I don't know. But... And every time we thought we had cracked it, he was like, no, it's not that. And we'd go back in. So you mean that it was like Doug Martin's, like, shoe support, like foot support? I just remember there were... We should pull... Somebody's got the Daily's must exist.

She pulls... We had her looking. at her shoes talking about support, I guess. I'm so glad you remember the Doc Martins. I just remember. And then, of course, she tied it together. Yeah, it was neatly. It was, so finally we achieved it, and he signed off on it, right? We shot it, and we're in post, and the episode was running a little long, of course. Oh. And I remember. And you know what almost got cut, which is shocking to even say but I remember on the possible chopping block was the dressing room scene with Mary Pat Lisa that would have been horrible I remember that was there was a day

we were shooting a coffee shop scene for something else and it was like so maybe maybe that and you know I I felt too close to it to know but yeah and also like we were like new here so it was like whatever you think right right right of course course but but But I remember Michael sitting us down and saying, guys, the episode was exactly, you know, 48 seconds too long or whatever. That is exactly the length of that question. She doesn't have her laptop. Right. It's sort of perfect.

Well, because she's writing the question when it dies. Well, he comes to kiss her and then it dies. She's writing the column. Right. Yes. Right. theoretically. Yeah.

And also, I had forgotten that he leans over and he reads it out. Yes. I have forgotten that. And that was so, yeah, I was like a radical invasion of her space. And she's like, I didn't finish writing.

I know. It's almost like he broke it. I know. It feels that way. It totally feels that way. And then she's irritated with them even though he is trying to help, but you kind of understand. Yes.

And also the other thing that I really love, because this has happened in the, in this season, when she has to write her first email, right? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was laughing. I know, I want to see that again. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

What is the episode where she writes the email? We see her right her very first email. Oh. And she doesn't know if he's seen it. And then she's there and Willie's there. Stanford is there. And you remember how he used to AOL used to have like messenger instead messenger? And it says it would say if you were online.

And she ducked. She's like, can't see me? Oh my God. That is amazing. Right? It's a time capsule. I am insane. Yeah.

Yeah. It's really good. But like him reading, him like, invading her voiceover. Swoops in, that's a big old self and reads aloud. Did we have her writing it longhand? No, she's typing.

No, no. I'm thinking that scene that we cut. Oh. No, I think it was a just voiceover. Oh. I think it was just voiceover. I'm not sure. It could have been voiceover while she's reaching for it.

Yeah, yeah. Because I remember Doc Martin something. Yeah, there was a reference. Yeah, no, we wrote it. Wow. And I think then Michael said, like, what it should be the only episode where there isn't a question because their computers and tech serve.

Yes. So we're like, okay, I guess, I guess no. What do you remember of the filming of it? Like, what were you thinking? What were you feeling? Again, first time like on set. Yeah. I mean, that's, that season.

We have those cute pictures. You have those cute pictures. I can't wait to put them on the Instagram. Oh, my God. It's like little children, especially like practically. It was so cute. It wasn't bad. It was cute.

As anything. We were happy. Let's put it that way. I'll just say like we wrote, we were in L.A. writing the season or the big, you know, as much as we could before filming began. Right. And that in and of itself was an out-of-body experience for three months of just being in shock. And are we really, is this really the show? Like meeting the other writers, getting to know the whole process.

But then when we met you guys. Yeah, that was great. I think, like, I was starstruck probably for the entire sex in the city run. Like, I'm not kidding. Like, I really just felt so, it was very hard for me to be critical at table reads because I was just like, I'm watching my favorite show. Table reads are special. No, I, but like other people would have notes and I would just be like, I thought it was great. Like, I just.

Yeah, yeah. No, that's me at a table read as well. Cynthia's got the critical. I'm just like, it's fantastic. I love everyone. After that first table read, it must have been season four, one, two. Yeah, because we would read them together. And I remember I was so excited and there was like all that delicious food.

It's free. Like that was all still very exciting. And then I remember at the end of the table read and we got to meet everyone. We're saying, hi, I'm so excited. And then Mike was like, everybody. In my office. Oh, yeah. That was a disaster.

And I was like, wait, what? Like, I need to go to university of table read. I didn't understand what was so wrong. And it actually really helped me. It actually taught me what to listen for in a table read. And, like, why he felt it had gone so badly. Right. Because that's everything.

Like, now that I understand that, it's like learning to look at an x-ray. Right. And saying, like, did you notice everyone's sort of disengaged right around page 8? Or did you notice that actually felt too harsh for that character. And just what to listen for was so valuable. And now it's like the most important tool. I mean, there are so many. But I say if I have to pick one thing for a writer to think about is have a read,

even in your living room with your friends. But don't you find that almost no one knows this now? Yes. Like I think that Michael is this wonderful. Shows don't even do it. I know. It's weird. It's like to not hear from page one to the end.

You have to hear the rhythm of it. And the flow. I agree. I tried to explain to my young pretend children the importance of this as well. Because also as an actor, it's really, really important. You're right. You have to bring it. Your stuff can get cut.

Right. You can't just be sitting there with your head in the script whispering. That's true. That's true. It's not good. That's true. Although, Michael, I will say, every once in a while, if something was on the chopping block, someone in the writer's meeting might say, like,

well, I don't know if they really got that joke. And he would say, nope, it's never the actor's fault. Oh, that's so nice. Yeah. That's so nice. That's so nice. It's Harry Styles, live in London, England at Wembley Stadium. This is Harry Styles.

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Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. I do think also, and I mean, I think all of us have progressed. We've been together now forever and it's a blessing and a joy, as you all know I feel and I know you feel. And I think that in the beginning, and you guys didn't come in the beginning, beginning, right? Because the beginning was like this just exploration. Yeah. Then the pressure kind of like, you know, the success. Sure, sure.

Right. Came together. And then Michael Patrick has such a kind of exacting, you know, like the rhythm and the vision. and the vision of it all and everything's got to be firing together. And I think all of that came more so. And I remember for myself, because as an actor, you go. And I did learn, you know, I'd watch Cynthia and Sarah and, like, you know, they come from theater. And they were like, this is a creative, this is its own creative experience, the read-through, right?

I've also been to film rates that are not that way. Oh, interesting. Where it's more, I mean, I think the executives are listening to it, but maybe not all the actors are feeling like they need to bring it, as you said. Well, I think, I have to imagine you're an actor. I'm not. That you as an actor are, you're nervous for your piece of it, right? Sometimes.

Depends. Yeah. Because I realized, like, when you've written the episode, you are so nervous. I was like, God, shitting in my pants. Right, that's scary. Right. Right. And that's scary.

Right. Right. And then we're up all night. Rewatting. Rewriting, right. When we get to change of address, remind me, because that's a fascinating story. For me as an actor, I didn't really, I knew, obviously that there was a, B, C, D storyline, right? And you always knew when you got the scripts that you might be D storyline and that might get cut.

It was just part of it, right? That was what I signed on for. You know what I mean? I didn't really take it that personally. I mean, as you always all know, Charlotte started kind of as the D storyline, right? And then flowered and grew and evolved under your tutelage. Not an accident, by the way. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much. But, you know, it was a joy, right? So for me, it was all, I never was like, I sucked and therefore it got cut. You know what I mean? I never felt that. So I wasn't nervous. I think for me, too, I think the table read was so much fun. Yeah.

And there's so much energy. It's like a party. Yeah. We all get to be together, which isn't always true on this set. That's true. Right. And also to hear it because we. We shoot out of order.

I know you've talked about this, but that is often surprising to people. We shoot way out of order and we crossboard two episodes. And you're often not in a lot of scenes with a lot of people. Like you don't get to see the other romantic stuff. You get to see the girls at the coffee shop and all that. So then you get to hear everyone else's storyline. It's so much fun. I have a question for you.

Yeah. As an actor on the show back in the day, did you watch it every, like, would you turn it on every Sunday night and watch it? No. They would give us a VHS tape. Okay. Okay. And sometimes it wasn't 100%. Like there might be a card. Right, right, right.

There might be, you know. It's like temp music or something. It might be not complete. But I, and this was my experience, I don't know everyone. I think everyone had different experiences, right? For me, I was like, oh, it's here. Just like when we got the scripts, right? Like, oh, it's here.

You know, like, they handed it to us at work in the Manila envelope. Yeah, we would, I would run home and rip up. that baby up and put it in and I would watch it alone, you know, in my apartment. And I might really stress out that that would be when I would be critical of myself, right? But generally speaking, I think, yes, I would watch it from a critical standpoint of my own performance, but also just generally fanning about what we had created. Right. Yes.

And seeing it all come together. Yes, yes, yes. And obviously it kind of grew and changed and morphed and got deep. and all the things, and I just loved it. But then I didn't watch it again. Like, I wouldn't watch it on Sunday night. I would be trying to, in some way, though, I don't know if I would have expressed it this at the time, you know, you're trying to protect your creative process to some certain

extent. You don't want to get into bad habits or self-conscious. And think about the response and think about whatever people like or don't like or whatever. And you're just trusting and hoping. Right. Letting go. Right. Letting go.

Yes. So that's what I was doing a lot of the time. That's interesting. Until now, when I'm rewatching it, from a far distance. Right. Right. Which is so, yes, all this time later, having not watched it in so long, another little bit of trivia, trivia about shooting my mother word myself. That scene in tech serve, and for people who weren't around in the 90s, tech serve was the only place if you had a Mac that you could go to get your computer.

There was no genius bar. There was no appellers. We were like the weirdos with the Apple. Apple thing and only one place could fix it. Right. So anyway, and we love TechServe. RIP. Yeah, very sad.

It's not here anymore. But anyway, when we were shooting that, all that stuff with John Corbett and S.J. And Awesome. He's going to come to me. Oh, good. He's going to come. Oh, good. Yes, we saw him.

Anyway, that night, it turned out, we wound up shooting super duper late. And it was like. As was our way. Two, three in the morning. I don't know what it was. And I remember because Carrie has that call with Miranda in Philadelphia and Cynthia got dressed, came down, did her side. Right. Just to be on the phone.

I told someone we did this other day and they were shocked. I was like, you know, we needed it. Yeah. And that was really an amazing thing. And a testament to all of you for being so supportive even when you're not, it wasn't her side. She was not on film. It wasn't on film. Right, right.

So basically just to make sure everyone knows what we just said. So it was the middle of the night. Sarah is working with Corbett at the tech serve with Asif, assuming. And Cynthia got out of bed, got dressed, came down to be off camera for her phone call when she calls. Carrie, she tells Carrie that her mom had. She's in Philly. Yes. She had a heart attack.

Because she didn't pass away yet. Often, it's just a temp reader. It's just on the other side of the phone. John and just like that, which was wonderful. That became Elisa's. Yes, Elise is very good at it. She's very good at. But it would normally be a script supervisor who we also love.

Jen Gessinger, I think at this point would have been Jen Getsinger, right? Or Betty Ann did it a lot. We, guys, which would really change the whole scene. Yes. I'm having a thought of a scene that now maybe, was it cut? Because you reminded me, because I remember there was a scene where Miranda's looking for a black dress in Philly had to find a shi black dress, right? Shelly black bra.

I go with her shabby black dress, right. But because we were in the store that was letting us use their store, Jen Getsinger, our amazing script supervisor, who is now an amazing director, read the line, her pretty black bra. Had to find a pretty black dress. Well, that's, I'm pretty black dress. I am fairly certain that, no, no, well, just that that that line was actually, yes. That is true.

I mean, I think the store. We were just trying to not offend the owners of the store. We were so excited that we were shooting there. So to be suggesting that that is where one would find a shitty black bra. Oh my God, that's adorable. Okay, so that scene is in it. Yeah, that scene is there. It's very, it's very brief.

And it's kind of close on her, which now you are explaining why, because you can't really tell where she is when that happened. I also just want to go back to what you said about the D story. And just for your information, we on Sex and the Subu, we never, that isn't how we were, that how did you refer to it? It's actually not even how Michael talked about it or, yeah. How did you talk about it? We would say, like your story, which I just loved rewatching, the Martha Stewart of Death, was the runner. You're the runner. Oh, I'm the runner.

And that's just like running. And we needed comedy in that episode. The D story. Well, that's super interesting. Explain exactly what does that mean. It's like a comedy, it's a comedy story that's light. So it gets like sprinkled throughout. Instead of like a beginning.

Listen, almost all of Charlotte is staccato. I have tried to explain this to people, especially in the beginning. Because we're a band. Right. Or a jazz quartet, if you'd like. And I was supposed, I needed to be the, you know, throughout. For a long time. And then I got to.

And then sometimes you got a bigger. But then I might need to come back up. And that's true probably for all the characters. You don't know what I'm saying? You know what else I thought about watching it again all these years later is that really was a time. And this is like poignant because now we're older and we are sadly surrounded by a lot more death. But when you sort of didn't know what to do when someone died. Like the fact that it was like we're going to Philadelphia.

Right. And you knew what to do. Like Charlotte knew what to do. And you always want that person, even now, like, it feels, when you're panicked and there's been terrible news of, like, the person who's going to say, this is what we do. This is what we're going to do. This is what we're going to say. And this is what you do.

And I loved that role. I had the same feeling. And it really, for me watching it now, I realized, A, you reminded me, you really reminded me of my mother, who is no longer here. and who was definitely a Charlotte, like more than I realized. Like, just here, you can say this, you can say that, you can say that, you can say that. And you were like mothering Samantha in this really wonderful way. I'm just going to cry now. I know you're a crying.

Because when I watch it, I have a cryer, as you all know. But also, like, I hadn't rewatched this in a long time, right? So I think of it as top three, at least, of our whole show, you know. And I know what it's about, obviously, right? But the detail, you know, and the sweetness. And the fact that this was a time in her life, where we hadn't gone through all these things that we've gone through now. And the fact that Samantha can't feel the feelings.

And can't say it. She doesn't know. But also, like, the way that she goes to sex, you know, it's like such addict behavior where she's, you know, me talking. But it's so interesting, right? And it's funny, but it's also not. Like, it's interesting in so many levels. And then I had fully, fully forgotten.

I had remembered filming the funeral, and obviously we were so wanting it to have the weight that it needed to have and do all of our different parts within that weight. And I had forgotten that Stephen. Okay. I have to talk about that moment, first of all. And I will go on the record and there are witnesses. That was not originally, we had many drafts, obviously. But at some point when we were getting notes on the script, and Michael had the thought, like, let's just have a shot of those guys.

And I remember thinking, it's too treakly. It's too sentimental. And you have to understand, our fear in writing this as our very first, episode that was a very dark episode. We were like, are people going to think we ruined the show? Oh, no. Like, jumped the show. And brought death in. Oh, no. I don't know about that. But just that it was like a real departure from what we expected. Yeah. And I think I was so worried, like, is that overly sentimental? And of course, first of all, of course he was right. Of course, like, that gets me when I see that shot of them.

But also what I realized watching it now, it's one shot. Right. There's no close up. We're talking about the shot when Miranda's walking down the... Well, because it's been set up that it's embarrassing for her. To be single. She has been shamed. People are worried about her.

Yeah. At her mother's funeral at 35 and she has no one to walk down the aisle, which really killed. Yeah. And then, of course, Carrie goes to her. and it's with her. But you cut to Eden and Steve and they're standing there and it's so surprising

and they're just solemn in their suits and like the fact that they got themselves to Philadelphia. So good. But that's it. We never cut back to them.

There's no close up. But also we never even cut back to them. But we don't even need to. I know. Because that's how powerful it is. Yes. Now look, if you guys had done a close up

and had Carrie have a meaningful look, it could have been treakily. Right? So it was all in the execution as well. But also it's such a shock. And it's just like, there they are. Yeah. They're amazing guys. And then with that voiceover of, you know, just showing up, there's the line. It got me too. I have to say, the, you know, the chosen family part, you know. And I'll say one another thing about the chosen family part. I remember when we were assigned this episode and, you know, we had been talking in the room for weeks, if not months about what episode eight would be. And then at a certain point, it's like, okay, Julie and Elisa, you'll work on what you think the scene should be and then come back and we'll, on Monday, we'll hear what you kind of envision. And so we come back and we had done our little homework together and we came in and we were like, well, what if when we're with Miranda and we, her sister and her and her, the rest of her family, blah, blah, blah, like she's in Philadelphia and here are the things that could happen to her with her. And we, she's,

family. Right. And Michael was like, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. We are not, right. We are not playing Miranda's family. We're going to play them tiny. Well, it was just enough. Becky Ann Baker. She can do it in two seconds. I loved his reason for it. It was like, when your people are watching the show, they are putting their own family. Everybody has their own. own idea of what Miranda's family is. And he tells a great story that I don't, you've probably heard about like, I guess when they were doing season one, anytime they started talking about, I think it was Miranda's family. Jenny was inserting her family. Michael was inserting his family. And he realized like that's how it should be. And the more information you actually have,

it takes you out of your own. Yeah, that's true. So that's like Becky Ann Baker is just enough. Yeah, the big sister. But I did love seeing it today, the idea that Miranda, this like really strong person is like kind of afraid of her big sister. Definitely. It was so good. It was so good.

But what you said about Charlotte mothering. Yeah. Well, because then in the end when she cries on her shoulder, it's the cutest. And also just when she, when they see Miranda and like, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry. And Samantha says, you look great. And you, I totally. I forgot this, that you say that is not one of the things I told you. I know, I love it.

Right, but I just deliver it very lightly, which I was very pleased. Also, another little bit of trivia, to make those flowers look as tacky as possible was not easy because it wasn't reading on camera. The glitter. In life, they looked insane and tacky and glitter. Huge and weird. But then on screen you would look at the... And they were just like white flowers. Yes, right, right, right.

So we kept saying like more, more glitter. I mean, I didn't remember any of that. I remembered the outfit that I wore, but I would never have placed it in this outfit, in this episode, sorry, the outfit in the episode. And I remember it because there's a cute picture of me walking across the street with my flip bone and my little earpiece that, like, lives on, you know, on Instagram or whatever. I never knew it was this episode and that I was, you know, taking Martha Stewarting the funeral and the situation. but I love the entire every moment.

Yes, dear. What did the notes tell you? I love you. I love you so much. Did I mention I'm a nerd? The best possible kind. Well, I realized that Carrie's having this thing with Aiden, where he's trying to be helpful and she's so irritated. then she gets on the phone and is with Miranda and is like, what can I do?

Like, just wanting to support Miranda. And Miranda's like, I'm fine. Right. And then at that coffee shop scene, and I remember you said this because we were watching at the monitors, Carrie gets, you know, tears up when she says Miranda's mother dies. And you come around and you hand her a handkerchief and she doesn't take it. Like, I don't remember that part. It's very small.

Interesting. But I remember you saying she's not, she's not accepting that moment of support. It's like nobody wants to. How we all choose to be when we can really let ourselves be vulnerable or accept support. But like it was almost like a not a domino effect, but it was just sudden, I was seeing it in a different way that everyone. No one's comfortable with it. Yeah. Right.

Right. And that, you know, when. Carrie gets that call from Miranda and you see Aiden behind her in bed trying to support her and even just touch her. No, she has to go in the bathroom. And she goes to the bathroom. Right. But also he heard when the funeral was and he totally knows and then she says she doesn't know. That hurt me for Aiden. I'm totally sure that that's what he's playing. I don't know if that's what you guys intended, but I'm sure that's what he's playing. Which also is so meaningful that he gets there. Do you know what? It's so good. It's so good. Experience Harry Styles live in London, England at Wembley Stadium.

This is Harry Styles. IHart Radio wants to send you and a mate across the pond, with flights from Virgin Atlantic, hotel from TripCentral.ca, tickets, and $1,000 cash. Here we got to! Download the free IHart Radio app. Listen to IHart New Music for 10 minutes. Enter to win.

Every day is another chance to see Harry Styles. Very excited to see you with the show. Kiss all the time, disco occasionally. available now. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'll say it. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor

the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now, I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now, so... Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes, I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years. from black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing,

we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch life becomes about wins and losses Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely.

And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the hard way and listen now. Now let me ask you guys a general Aden question.

Because as I'm rewatching this, now also we have all of our future knowledge, right? But when I'm rewatching it, sometimes I forget because it's super, super interesting. And we've just, we're about to go to the country, right? Sex and the country is next. Is that right, Hannah? Nine. Yes. It's nine, which is crazy, right?

And Big shows up, which is a whole complex thing. Right. Which I don't know if you guys remember this. It's coo coo-crazy. It's super crazy. It's super crazy. It's really interesting. But one of the things that I'm thinking about when I'm watching, you know, the Aden of it all, they're so different. Yeah.

Right? But I love it that they're different and I love it that they're trying. But then also you're like, ooh, they're just so fundamentally different. Yeah. True. Like what at the time were you guys thinking, big is the end game? You know, like what was the writer's room thought? Not then.

No? No. Okay. No, I don't think so. I don't remember that. There was a time that I believe also that it wasn't always discussed. It might have always been in Sarah Jessica's heart and mind. But I don't feel like as a group that you guys were always like, how are we going to get to the end game of big?

I mean, we knew then, the beginning of the fourth season, we knew Aiden was not going to make it to the end of the season. We had that arc out on the whiteboard. Right. I'm just going to say, like, I don't think we knew it was always going to be big because then there were other boyfriends who we seriously. Now, I could say maybe in Michael Patrick's head, it was always going to be big. But I don't think that was openly discussed. When you say other boyfriends, do you mean burger? Yeah, I mean, I think there was a time.

Wow. There was a time when at least some of the writers were kind of like, she needs this kind of guy. Right. Oh, my God. Yeah. And that would be, not the actor. Right.

Right. Yeah, yeah. Well, no, we're going to get there. We haven't gotten there yet. Oh, sorry. No, no, no. Everyone knows. Everyone listening.

No, but I feel like it was a, it was an open question. And it was like, well, she needs, we've never seen her with that kind of guy. Maybe that's her guy. Right. Because a lot of us hadn't found our guys also. Right. And you were writing from your own lives. So there was like, who is it for her?

Right. And then who is it who haven't I met? Right. Yeah, of course. Maybe that's a good point. I have to just like insert something because I mentioned. in that first writing experience that obviously Cindy and Jenny, who had been there before and were very instrumental in all of it. But there was also Amy B. Harris.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And also Liz Tichillo came in later. But I just want to say those names. They haven't written their own scripts yet. That's true. Which is so hard for me because I also have them in my head because they were around, right? But their names have not appeared on a script and I'm trying to wait until those names appear to have everybody on. As far as the process goes.

I want to say those names because, and especially because Amy, was there the fourth season and she was so crucial and introchral. Absolutely. I've been there since the beginning. Right. And I also think that it's always great to remember that there was this really vibrant, interesting group of women who are writing our show because everyone thinks of Michael. The mythology.

Yeah. Right. Which it was only them for just a tiny amount of time without Jenny, Cindy. Right. You know, the development of the group. It grew. Lucky for us. Okay, another line that we worked so hard on, you'll remember in Philadelphia outside the funeral.

First of all, let it be said, Elisa and I are from Philadelphia. Just coincidentally, Miranda was, had it already been established. It had been established. I don't remember that. I don't remember that. There's a line in like season one or two where she says like, my mother's in Philadelphia and blah, blah, blah, blah. Got it. Like something, it's just a throwaway.

Okay. So we got very lucky. Maybe that's why we were hired. There's a line. Well, first of all, that first shot of, we're allegedly in Philadelphia. Right. Of course, we shot up in like the Bronx or something. But, and Samantha says, I'm not going to find my orgasm in this town.

So first of all, you can imagine how much we got from our Philly friends. Oh, no. Well, because. Did we get you in trouble? No, we had to cast two extra. Yeah. And I believe in the script we were so, I think we called them like gross guys. Like two gross guys.

And then we had to find out. What are I like a ponytail or something else? She was extras. It was like, oh my God. Oh, that's embarrassing. But anyway, they didn't know the voiceover. But let's just say. So you say to Samantha, that's not when she says,

look great to Miranda and you say that's not one of the things I told you to say there was a line Samantha said something back we gave her a joke back I don't and Michael was like uh-uh that's not good enough come up with something better and we were like okay back to the drawing word we came up with another line sent it in Julie I'm so glad you still have oh I totally remember and so we came up with like another line nope that's not it I think we must have gone like round five times. Do you remember even what one of them was? I'm going to go home and pull them up today. I don't remember any of them. God bless you. Here's what the last thing we submitted, our last

offering before we shot it, was, and it says in the action line that Samantha like shrugs, and he laughed so hard at that. He was like, that's it. So it wasn't even a line. So that, yeah, I was going to say there's no line. Right. She doesn't need to have a line. Is Charlotte saying that's But she, Kim, just like, Right. And that was us. Which is fantastic. Oh my God, I love it.

Like, we're just throwing your hands. But that's also the thing that I think is so interesting. Everyone loves it when the writers come on the podcast. Really? Yes. Yes. First of all, because you guys were there. And so you have all kinds of interesting memories and things that I don't have, right?

From your own perspective. Second of all, they don't necessarily realize that you guys were the, you know, inspiration, or origin. stories for all of our stories. So it's really interesting to hear, like Jenny's told us some amazing, Cindy, both. I mean, really fascinating. Yeah, I love those episodes, by the way. Of course. They're amazing. Yeah, I love hearing them. Yeah, they're all great. But it's fun for the audience to hear because especially also at the time, it wasn't like we had podcasts where we could have you guys talking about these things. No one came and interviewed you guys necessarily.

Right. They didn't. Well, the uncomfortable thing and now rewatching both the episodes we wrote in season four I'm realizing like there are a number of moments where people will say like that is so awful of her and it's like that was me well well like just like you mean like viewers will well like my computer crash and my incredible boyfriend was very helpful now your husband now my husband took me to tech serve right and like stayed there with me while I was like having I was impeding yeah I was sweating and panicking right everything was in that laptop. Right.

Well, because we didn't know to back up. Exactly. We still taught us. Yeah. But I was irritated by him, much the way Carrie is by Aiden. And when I hear people say, like, what is her, God, all he's doing is being a nice guy. Oh, I totally get it. Don't worry about them.

No. I'm a jerk. No, no, no. No. First of all, I think it's a lot of what you already said, which is that when she's writing, he swoops in and just reads aloud, okay? Like, Aiden has a certain, very different from Ben. Like golden retriever.

Yes, Golden Retriever. I mean, I'd say that he's Ben's honorable. But also John's bringing John to Aiden, you know, part of him. And she has issues. Well, and it's fair. I was going to say, I remember our thing when we joined, I remember you said it in one of our last, like, conversations with Michael before we got hired when we were talking about what we would want to do in season four is we were, we were. wanted to lean into their flaws. And I remember you said warts and all.

Yeah. When you say their flaws, you mean the four of us? Yeah. Yes. I mean, this is one of the things I was just talking to Evan earlier about it. You know, people are complaining now that there aren't, and I feel this way as well, as a viewer of, you know, television or whatever we want to call it now. There's not a lot of flawed women characters. And there certainly aren't four of them leading a show, so what I mean, except for I love L.A.

Oh, my God. Which is great. Oh, love that. Trippy, Trippy show. It is. Trippy show. Are there four of them? There's three of them, I think.

Are there three or four? Well, it depends if you want to count her boss. Layton, meester. If we count her, there's four. Right? There's three friends plus a guy, right? Yeah. But anyway, let's go back to the complicatedness, right?

And, you know, I do think it's interesting because at the time, and I don't know from a writing perspective, we're, because right, when we start the show, it's, you know, into a vacuum, right? Like, we've got the column, Darren's gotten, Candace's column. We're taking that as a jumping off point, as you know, the first season. You're talking about. Yeah, the beginning of the show.

That was wild. It's all over. It's all over. It's all over. But great, now that I've rewatched it, I understand. The, really just starting from scratch. Right. Right?

And how much you feel the city and the time and all of it, right? man on the street. Oh, Lordy. Yes. Oh, my goodness. Wild, right? Yeah. Right.

And now I do too. Now that I'm rewatching it from a distance. I also like all of it. I love all of it. But then as time went on and we got to deepen, like as writing and in the room, how much, like if you guys talk to Michael before you started and you said, you know, warts and all, right? Like it was discussed. Yeah.

How much of the, I mean, let's just talk about Carrie. because Carrie is obviously the central. We've got Aiden. She's always the A story, I will say. Right. But we never called her that. Right. But of course, as she should be.

This is what I believed we signed on for, which is why I did never worry about whatever. Like, whatever I got was, you know, icing or whatever. But I mean, how did you all look at her own, what you were writing Carrie's, you know, issues as? Or like, how aware of. of that were you? I feel like everyone of us unconsciously infused our own things into all of that.

So it wasn't really discussed, but it was in your writing. Oh, all of us. That makes sense. It was our personal. We really wrote from a place of personal experience. and what we were wrestling with or what we had to get off our chests. Right, because when we get to a change of a dress,

I mean, it's out there. Right. It's right, out there in a really great, great way. And I don't know, like, would you, when you were, let's say you got assigned, okay, so you're going to do this one, then you're going to do that one. Would you tell the stories of your own personal self in the room?

Yeah, I mean, we start, I feel like it kind of goes, There's an order, there's a disordered order to it. Like, you start. Especially that season four. Yes, but all the seasons, like we start out telling a lot of stories. Right. And just trying to entertain each other with the crazy things that have happened in our lives,

funny things we've heard, funny things we've experienced, embarrassing. Like we just kind of do a big, like a brainstorm. Yes. Everyone's sharing. Someone's running up and writing things on the board that we want to remember. that are really, that like get the biggest laughs, phrases, stories, anecdotes, friends stories, all kinds of things. Right.

And then as the conversation develops over time, Michael, I feel like one of his gifts is he'll hear a story. He'll hear an issue. Oh, it was so annoying that he was there. Julie's telling a story about tech support. And she doesn't know it's going to be a Carrie story necessarily. She's like, oh, and then Ben was there. was annoying me so much just by being so nice. And he's like, that's, Carrie would have that issue with him.

Right. You know, and so it's like you're telling the stories and then he's kind of marrying them to people. Oh, that's such a Miranda attitude. I, you know, hurt my neck in the writer's room. And we didn't know that was going to be a Miranda story. But he was like, that would happen with Miranda. So he's like the conductor. Yes.

And all of you guys are just. Giving ideas freely not even realizing where they might fit in or how important. And then as you get more experience, though, like, I feel like on and just like that not to jump ahead. Yeah. There were things that, ideas that I would have that I would be like, this is such a Charlotte story. You know, with experience. By then you really know us. And we still do.

Right. Like, also. No way. Every day. Oh, you've made me so happy. Literally. You've made me so happy. You've made me so happy.

Keep going. She's still with me. I mean, she's with me too, babe. You just reminded me that season four, and again, it was our first day being alive in this amazing industry. But after we wrote my mother's word myself, that itself felt like, oh, my God, that was like it was our dream come true. And then it was shot, la, la, la. And we were sort of exhaling right when, of course, we were in production. We were back in New York. Everything was now we're really up against it.

And we figured like we were lucky we got to rate one. Sure. Oh, you knew that wasn't in a guarantee. No. No. Michael poked his head into our office and he was like, how do you feel about writing 4 or 15 episode? Wow.

And we were like, ooh. It's Harry Styles live in London, England at Wembley Stadium. This is Harry Styles. IR Radio wants to send you an mate across the pond. with flights from Virgin Atlantic, hotel from TripCentral.ca, tickets, and $1,000 cash. Download the free Iheart radio app.

Listen to IHart new music for 10 minutes. Enter to win. Every day is another chance to see Harry Styles. Very excited to see you with the show. Kiss all the time, disco occasionally, available now. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep, that's me. Clipper Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement

to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with a little camp? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast.

I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we picket here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you're just so you're not.

But just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed, correct. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now.

Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host. and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month,

I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it

and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust.

I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keir Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Can you guys believe how many episodes we used to do? No. Just last night, my husband was like, you guys did 18 episodes. I was like.

I know. How did we live through it? And then in season six, we did 20. I know. Because you remember why. Well, it was broken in two. Yeah. No, it wasn't really broken into.

On the air, it was broken into. Not in life. It was because of the pregnancy season. That was season five. I know. That's why. Yeah. Because then when they got us back, they were like, well, we're not letting them go anywhere.

We're going to make them do as many as we possibly can. And then we're just going to do what we want with it later in post. But we've worked for a calendar year into the cold when it was five degrees. And we had to wear the little. We had a real blizzard. Yes, the real blizzard. Oh my God, the real blizzard. The being in New York, once we came back, like as Lisa was saying, like you generally,

you didn't know exactly what episode you were going to do. and I heard you talking to Jenny about this, and it's true. Like, if you had, you know, in her case she gave as a great example, a woman's right to shoes. Right. But if you had a story, you likened him to a conductor, I also feel like he's a chef opening a refrigerator and things that you would think, like, we should throw out this mandarin orange, nobody's going to eat this,

but he would find a way to, like, whip it into something. I'm mixing a lot of metaphors. Oh, I like it. Once we were back in New York, because we'd done all the writing and the, not all the writing, but the first, the first batch of scripts we wrote out there. But I remember we were here when we got notes. And then back in New York, of course, we're living our lives and having more experiences and things that we wanted to put into the season. So that felt like an infusion of we would have different kinds of writers' rooms. It wasn't ever like it was in L.A. when we were very methodically.

Right. It was always methodical. Right. Right. Right. Right. Because you were on the set. Because we were on set.

A lot of the time. Yes. Like more frantic pace. And we would be, we would have writers, writers meetings all over the city. Right. Like at restaurants. And sometimes at night, like I remember so vividly a night where we were, we had a late night, probably like at, you know, crew lunch. at, you know, nine o'clock.

Which at lunch could be at any time, you guys. It doesn't mean lunch. It would be dinner for everybody else, but we would be, like I remember, we were at Blue Ribbon Bakery having dinner, the writers, just the writers. And at the next table, there were people who were talking about sex in the city, this week's episode of Sex and City, and they were debating amongst themselves, and we were having a writer's meeting about future episodes. I love it.

So thrilling. Like that will never, so thrilling. You know, happen. Like, that doesn't. So let me ask you this. So you write my motherboard myself, which obviously was huge, and were you happy with it? Oh, my God.

Did you feel? Well, first of all, Wendy Stansler, our incredible editor, went on to become an incredible director. But she cut that episode. She was the editor of that episode. And I remember Michael invited us down. When you got invited to see a cut of an episode, like, it was very, very exciting. And I remember watching it and thinking, this is terrible. This is terrible.

Why did you think that? I could see every cut. It was like I was floating. I can't explain how I had zero perspective. All I could see were things I went into tweak. And I remember after that little break, you loved it. I loved it. Thank God. So this is why you guys are a great partnership. Yay. This is a great show. So I was like, I have some thoughts. And I remember Michael had to go back to set because, you know, and he was like, you sit down with Wendy, do whatever you want with her, but don't mess with that. And I remember Wendy was awesome. And I was like, just this moment, is there a take where she did this and a dot?

I was just, you know, I'm mean. Yes. Yeah, that is my, I had to get in there a little. but I couldn't see it. I couldn't see it in the way that now I can see it. I was too close to it. I understand. I definitely my first viewing.

I have it, but only about me, right? So, I mean, first of all, I loved every episode. I don't remember any, I don't remember at the time ever being like, yeah, that one was bad or whatever. It would never enter my mind, right? But I might think I was bad, you know, or I might think, like, I didn't do great in that scene or I didn't do what I wanted in that scene or something. like that. Would you ever think, like, oh, I thought I was doing a different thing? Like, would you ever be surprised like, oh, that's how it turned out?

Or that's how I turned out? Not fundamentally no. And I think that's because I really know Charlotte, right? Like, I really know Charlotte. Like, certain directors would try to tell me that I was wrong. And I was like, no, no, I'm really sorry. You're wrong. But I didn't have the wherewithal to say that to them.

So I'd have to go call Michael Patrick. And be like, Michael, I really need your help on her. get down here right now. I'm being told. Yeah, I'm being told something that is fundamentally not true about my girl and it's like, mess it with me. Sure. I need help. I need back up. Help me. Help me. I do feel like maybe now when I'm looking at it, I can see layers that were going on, like personally, I guess, meaning, you know, because as much as you're acting, you're also a human being in whatever situation you're in, right, that day or with that person or whatever, like I was watching an episode recently and I thought to myself, you know, why is my voice

so high? And I do think I was, Charlotte was nervous in what she was saying. It was, I don't want to say too much because I want to tell the whole story and if I say too much, you're going to know what I'm talking about. Okay. Then I realized it was a director who didn't really get me. Ah. And you were responding to that.

Yeah. Right. You didn't feel safe. Comfortable. Right. Well, it's also, I have to say the distance of time because, and it's true, I am very critical and things that bothered me at the time, like really, it was hard for me to let that go. Well, let me just say one thing, though.

You wrote it, so you had a very clear vision in your mind. I totally understand why no matter how great the episode is, if it doesn't match what's in your mind, right. Of course you're going to see that. I also think there's fear that you have when you're watching it. And as much as I'm a fan, like, I do relate, I do relate to, is this, is this good? Oh, yeah. You never know. It's a terrible. I think it's good. Well, of course. And now, I have to say now, all these years later, my kids are teenagers, they started watching the entire series from the beginning. Oh, my God. And I, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they. They. And I, they. They. They. of course, held this up to me. I said each time it was like, oh, that was really, that's better

than I remember. Like, I realize all my criticism, all my criticism that I had, yes, I think didn't allow me to just sit back and fully enjoy it. Oh, for sure. Only now I can do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that is the problem with being a perfectionist, yes, yeah. But I also want to say, just as a side note, you're a fantastic director. Oh, that's very. You really are. I called you told you this. I know. Now I'm going to cry. But I mean, I knew that you would be because you're so, you know, steeped in everything and your brain already is working like that. There's people whose brain works like that and there's people whose brain doesn't. My brain doesn't really work like a director. You know, they were always forever asking me, do you want a director? I was like, please, God, no.

Please, God, no. First of all, because I have the children and I can't be asked any more questions during the day. That's how I feel. Yeah. People always say, do you want to me? I'm like, I want to not direct. Exactly. I enjoy Julie directing. Exactly. She's very natural. It does because that's how your brain is already functioning.

So I could see why if you're just writing and kind of giving over that goal, that there's a process. You're right. Yeah. I realize because it took me until and just like that to actually direct. Right. But you're right. I think I was like a frustrated director. But I didn't realize that.

I was just being picky. And a lot of actors are frustrated directors too. and sometimes you can tell because they're trying to say something about what the other actors doing. And I'm almost like, that's not your claim. Back up, back up. But I'm not that way. I would love to produce. I want to put the people together to make the project, right?

Let's do it. That's fun. Let's do it. Let's do it, you guys. Because you guys are such incredible team players. That's the other thing that I want to say. Well, the thing I haven't said enough on this podcast is looking back. we can talk all night long about the writing or the directing.

It's you guys. Like you, every, anything I laugh at, I realized, it's not the writing. I mean, okay,

it's the writing. It is. It's your, you guys. Delivering. I mean, we have incredible chemistry. It's true.

We have incredible chemistry. And sometimes I'm also, I mean, I mean, no, you can't. You can't. I agree. But you can also have

incredible chemistry. And if you don't have the foundation of the writing, it's just frothy. Do you know what I'm? I'm saying, it'll just like evaporate into nothing. It won't land without the foundation of the writing. And I feel like what's so great about the writing, and this is true, we want to talk about a change of a dress as well.

I was trying to put my makeup on stupidly while I was watching my motherboard myself. It really didn't go well. Not anticipating the tears. No. And of course, I've cried it all off anyway now, so it's fine and who really cares. But like, I was so stupid. Do you mean? But like also it's one of those things and people say this to me all the time like, oh, you know, the first time I watched the show, I thought I was a carrier or whatever.

And now with life experience, I think I'm at this, I'm at that or whatever, like to watch my motherboard myself from this perspective. It's just so good. Painful. You know, it's painful because we were so innocent. You know, we were so innocent, don't you feel? Yeah. But that's also like you guys wrote it so beautifully that you can have these different reactions over the years. as you're seeing it. It's amazing.

Thank you. Such a, yeah, it's a really blessing to have been part of it. We should also mention a big inspiration for that was there was a lot of loss behind the scenes. Melfi had just lost his mother. Yeah. And Grace not. Grace not. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so we felt like we were doing this to honor all of them. And you did a beautiful job. You did a beautiful job. also, Jenny going through the cancer twice. I mean, at this point in time, I can't remember. And Michael had lost his father. Right. Like there was all that.

It was starting. It was starting. And obviously we're at many, many years later and many losses later. But also I feel like the idea that you even tried, you know, that even everyone was like, hey, we've got this comedy that's, you know, like getting. Thank God. Michael had the courage to do. to do that. It was, he came in on day one and knew that that was going to happen at some point.

And there were other, there were other things. I remember that was the most clear season that he, yeah, he was like, this is happening and that's happening and that's happening. I realize when you're saying this, I'll try not to cry, that watching it again this morning, what got me choked up was that last line she's at her. laptop and she says something about accepting support and then she says so can a boyfriend if you can learn to let him and I realize like and that's so big easiest transition to 415 because that was like me pushing this great guy away you were pushing Ben away I mean I can get into it and

change of address but like I did not want to get married for many many years and he tried That is adorable. I don't think I knew this. It's only adorable because it ended well. Right. So he wasn't like Aiden. We would not be talking about it right now. So like when she says, when your boyfriend gets down in the street and propose to you, you just say yes because that's what you do.

Not that I wanted it. She's basically saying, I don't want this. Yeah. That's where you were at. Wow. And also I felt like I'd never seen on TV. I'd only seen a proposal scene where the woman says yes. So true.

And ultimatums. You know, I want to get married. Right. Right. Right. Right. And I felt very alone. I felt very alone in not wanting to get married.

Oh, you should have come and talk to me. Oh, wow. Yeah. Let's take a trip back. But, yeah, I felt really like a freak. And it was in, I was relieved that Michael wanted to put that on the air and give that to carry. Yeah. Because Michael knows that.

that this is a cultural situation. This is a cultural situation where women are pushed to be feeling. You should want to get married. You should want to have kids. You should be impatient about it even. Right. And thank God this is changing. Thank God. I didn't have that. It's a good thing. It's a good thing. But it is taking so long. Good God. You know what I mean? Yeah. I know. Although I was happy to hear on your other podcast that women are now, was it Jenny? Jenny told us. The highest house owner. are single women. Because we were talking about when Miranda, remember when Miranda has to keep, like, saying that she's single when she's buying the house.

I've been through this personally. That still happens. I was going to say, sadly, I'm not cut up. No, I'm sure. I mean, maybe not quite as much as it was, but it's up there where they're just like, wait, where they're, like even with my kids, right, at school, the fact that there's only one signature on all of the permissions and the contracts, you know, for like. Sure, they always. Yes. You must have the other.

Yes. other parent who's out there is not an agreement or, you know what I'm saying? Yes, yes, yes. You have like legal worries. You have to jump through some hoops, man, to be like, no, I am the only one. I am the only one. Please get on board. Right.

Right? Let me sign the form. You guys, this is so much fun that we are going to have to have a part two. So join us later in the week on RU.S. Charlotte. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target.

He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen. the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled with conversations with athletes, creators, and voices

that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. On the Look Back at a podcast. That was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam Jay.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

My mother-in-law spent years sabotaging our relationship. until karma made her pay for it. All right, Sophia, tell me about how we started this story. She moved in for two weeks, lasted five days, left a mess, and then pressed her ear against their bedroom door and burst in screaming. When kicked out to a hotel, she called her son-in-law's workplace, pretending his partner had been rushed to the hospital by ambulance. She faked a medical emergency.

And spoiler, that was just the beginning. To find out how it ends, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.