Are You A Charlotte? - You, Your Ex, and His Wife with Karamo Brown... (S3 E3 "Attack of the Five‑Foot‑Ten Woman")

Episode Date: November 3, 2025

Is there anything worse than being at brunch with your besties and discovering your ex is married and oh, you're still in love with him. Queer Eye For Straight Guy and television personality Karamo Brown has a hot take on all of it. And Kristin reveals another way she and Charlotte are one in the same. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Johnny Knoxville here. Check out Crimeless, Hillbilly Heist, my new true crime podcast from Smartless Media, campside media, and big money players. It's the true story of the almost perfect crime and the Nimrods who almost pulled it off. It was kind of like the perfect storm in a sewer.

That was dumb. Do not follow my example. Listen to Crimless, Hillbilly Heist, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I live below a cult leader, and I fear I've angered her. Wait a minute, Sophia. How do you know she's a cult leader? Well, Dakota, luckily it's I'm not afraid of a scary story week on the OK Storytime podcast.

So we'll find out soon. This person writes, My neighbor has been blasting music every day and doing dirt rituals. And now my ceiling is collapsing. I try to report them, but things keep getting weirder. I think they might be part of okay. Hold up. A real life cult? And what is a dirt ritual? No clue, Dakota. To find out how it ends. Listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Chicago. A white woman's murder. A black man behind bars. For a crime he didn't commit. 90 years of killing somebody I have never seen. The Crying Wolf podcast is the story of a corrupt detective, two men bound by injustice, and the quest for redemption. no matter the price. Listen to the Crying Wolf Podcasts on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Cal Penn, and on my new podcast, here we go again. We'll take today's trends and headlines and ask, why does history keep repeating itself? Each week, I'm calling up my friends like Bill Nye, Lily Singh, and Pete Buttigieg, to talk about everything from the space race to movie remakes,

to psychedelics. Put another way, are you high? Look, the world can seem pretty scary right now. But my goal here is for you to listen and feel a little better about the future. Listen and subscribe to here we go again with Cal Penn on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The Big Take podcast from Bloomberg News keeps you on top of the biggest stories of the day. My fellow Americans, this is Liberation Day. Stories that move markets. Chair Powell open. the door to this first interest rate cut. Impact politics, change businesses. This is a really stunning development for the AI world

and how you think about your bottom line. Listen to the big take from Bloomberg News every weekday afternoon on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? Hi, everybody. Welcome back to Are You a Charlotte. We are here today with Karamo Brown. It's so exciting.

You might know him from Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, but also he has his own talk show now. Let's hear all about it. Well, I've always wanted to talk to us since I was like nine years old. This is like my childhood dream. Yeah, my mother found my middle school yearbook the other day, and I should bring it in. And I wrote in there, hopefully you'll be a guest on my stage one day.

No. And so I've been manifesting this forever. And it's only because I'm nosy as hell. I am so nosy. I want to know everyone's business. Perfect. Like, if you have any gossip, Kristen, please call my phone. I am the one to tell.

Okay. Because also I can keep a secret. I can keep a secret. Okay. Okay. That's good. That's good. I'm a vault. Okay, good.

And so I just wanted a day time talk. show where I could also be noticed, but also help people because as a little kid, you know, I felt super alone. I felt super like no one understood me. I felt like I didn't understand where to get help from. Like, you know, nowadays people have Instagram. They can just swipe their stories that people get a million people getting advice. But, you know, I'm in my 40s, late 40s. And there was nobody giving me advice on Instagram or somewhere. You didn't know where to go. Definitely. And so my goal is just to do that and to have it now a show where

it's fun, it's entertaining, we're a little messy but also people get real advice on how to be better. It makes you feel good. And we're in season four. In a time we're like, we're a time where shows get canceled quickly to go to season four. No joke. Wow. That's so nice. And so nice

because sometimes as great as Instagram is in terms of being able to connect people at the same time, I feel like it's a little bit dangerous in terms of advice because you don't necessarily know where that advice is coming from or you know what I'm saying like it worries me a little my kids are not on social media so far and I'm glad about that but I do feel like you can kind of find your people that way in some ways right but at the same time

sometimes the advice I'm like I don't know if we should listen to that advice no of course well one of the big things for me is like on my talk sure even like when I'm giving advice on social media. I don't give generic advice. If I'm going to give you advice, I'm going to give you a step that needs to come with it. I think that's always a thing that misses. Like, here's actual stuff. Like, I hate what people say, get better self-esteem. Like, girl, if I could do that, I already had it. It's like, I already had it. I would have already had it. I would have already had it. If you're like, get out that relationship that's bad. If I could have, I would already been out of it. Like, it's clearly, you know, it's, I love the push, but the push has to come

with clear instructions. And so that's one thing that about Instagram for me, like instruct people if you want to do this, but also like tell them what you've been through and where you're at. Definitely. I think that's part of what I love about you. You're very transparent, if I can be honest. Oh, thank you.

You do share. You do share and you give. Thank you. And that's something you're welcome. And I do it as well and I appreciate that. You know what I mean? Yeah, you do. Like no one's asking you to give you a full life.

But like we know people in this business stage sometimes don't just, you have to give peace of yourself. and it's when people connect. And that's why we connect with you. That's true. Thank you. I mean, it's been a journey. It's been a journey.

Like we, Adam and I were talking earlier about like, you know, because I've been doing this for a long time, right? And the industry has changed obviously so much and is in the, you know, turmoil currently, right? Changing again. And when we first started, you know, wanting to act and acting, we didn't know that we were going to need to share so much of ourselves. Do you know what I'm saying? Like we were afraid of it in a lot of ways, you know, like we were in protection.

Well, yeah, back then the industry was your condition that you have to be this and you don't share your personal life unless you want to be in the tabloids. If you want to be in tabloids, be scandalous. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. But now, I think it's nice in some ways that the walls have come down.

But I also feel like then, like for my kids, I'm always a little worried about protecting them because they didn't choose. my job, you know, before they were born, obviously. So I don't necessarily want them to, you know, be subjected to all the stuff. You know what I'm saying? Like, how do you deal with that with your kids? You know, it's the thoughtfulness. And I think that's the key thing for parents. I think the more thoughtful you can be in putting your yourself in kids' shoes is the greatest gift that you can ever give. And anytime I make a decision, I always put myself in their shoes. And sometimes as parents, we think we know best. And we forget, like, it's hard when you're younger and people have an opinion of you,

but also when they have opinion of your family. And, you know, and this is not just because we're in the industry. This goes for anybody. Like, when you find out someone's, your neighbor's dad has done this, as much as you think it's just the adults, the kids come around and they pick on them. And I think that thoughtfulness is something that I wish more parents, you know, had. because especially on my daytime talk show, you wouldn't believe how many parents I come across that very, still to the say,

that old school feeling of like, I'm the parent, what I say go, what I say do, does. Wow. You know, whatever I believe is what you believe. You know what I mean? If you don't like it, get out of my house. If you don't want it.

And these are things that we hear. You know, like we've heard this. I'm sure you've heard one of your friends say one of those things or a variation of those things. Like, good job. Thank God for your. Yeah. No, my friends, we're all in the other group of like, we're trying to do it differently and then maybe we might err too far on the other side.

Do you what I mean? I got it. Got it. Yes, yes, yes. Were you given too much freedom or something? Yes. Well, listen, I still believe, I still believe that the first step is not forgetting that these kids are still little humans that have to live in this world, that have their own thought, free will. and I think respecting that is something that is lost.

And so I applaud you for doing that. If you're going on the other end, we can talk about that. I don't want to talk too much about that because then we'll be on a whole other side. But you know what I want to ask you about? And then because I saw when on the bio about your show like and because of your own life and your own kind of really interesting way that your life unfolded in terms of your children and your own sexuality and your career, right? It's all very interesting and unusual.

You know, when you look at Sex and the City, because when I saw the actual episode that we have you breaking down, which is Attack of the Five Foot 10 Woman, I was like, oh, I don't know if this is the right episode to have Caramo, but here you are and we're happy to have you. But like, it's a kind of very gender normative type of an episode for us. You know what I'm saying? Like, what do you think about, like, what's your perspective on sex and the the city and your own, like, feelings on gender roles?

Yeah. Well, sex in the city for me, because I'm a gay man, obviously, it's my bread and butter. Like, you know what I was looking at. And so gender roles for me when I was a kid made me feel and safe because being a gay man and knowing at a very young age, this is who I am. This is who I hope to love one day. I knew that I had feminine ways and when people would see me in the kitchen

wanting to like bake or do something that I thought was so fun and just was me being creative all of a sudden it was like also a way for people to pinpoint that I was different and that I was you know this and it was hard because it was like why can I enjoy these things

and why can I do these things without being pinpointed at something else and as I become an adult you know I'm free of that and I, you know, I don't subscribe to gender roles, you know, in that way anymore. And actually, you know, when I talk to men, if I can be very real with you, I think most straight men, being a straight man is a prison. And I think most straight men are in prison. And it's the truth.

I look at my straight buddies and the way that they have to control their thoughts, their movements, their actions because they're afraid that if one person catches one thing, there's going to be a joke or there's going to be a landslide. of something that they feel they can't control or they can't handle. And it is so, it's heartbreaking sometimes. Yeah. Because I get my straight male friends and sorry to go down this path, but I get my straight male friends who come over my house and they will, they'll, after like a couple times, their guard will get let down. Yeah.

And you see the little boy in them that wasn't stifled by the world and this gender role. You see them, see something that's exciting and they get excited in there. fluffing around and then they'll stop for a moment because they're like, hold on, I wasn't supposed to be doing that. And then they realize like, oh, no, I'm in a safe space that I can flop around and be excited because I'm a human being. And emotions, whether they're happy, sad, excited, not come. And I just feel so sad for so many men that take these gender roles and have put

themselves in a prison of who they think they have to be instead of just being their holistic self and knowing that the women in their lives will love them and appreciate it more will appreciate them more, the more they can be authentic and share. And being yourself doesn't mean that it takes away from you being able to provide security. Does it mean it takes away from you being able to be a protector, whatever things you think that you need to be. But it also allows you to say like when you were five years old and you were running around and dancing in the dirt or dancing and having fun, you still get to be that. you still get to dance.

Sure. But what we do know is that many straight guys feel like they can't. They get in public and they're like... I know. I feel really bad for the straight men right now. I think they're confused. They are in a prison and a confusion. And it breaks my heart.

I said, and I also see some... I feel like there's some generational shifts happening with that, though. Like, I feel like the younger men might not be so much controlled. I live in New York and in L.A. as well, like, back and forth. I think at our coast, we do. But when I go back to Texas, it is getting, it is getting, it is getting worse. It's getting worse. Yet it's getting worse for them. We're now because of the, the, I call it the algorithm divide. Now because of the algorithm divide. It's a real thing. It's a real thing. These young boys feel like they have to choose a side. They have to take a strong stand. either on this side of the algorithm or that side, which has got them deeper into this prison of like, I cannot even express ideas or thoughts of creativity or love because if I am not connected with this side of the algorithm,

then I'm going to be perceived to be on that side. Right. And so for me, when I look at those places, I think that's part of what we see that is killing our country. It's killing our, you know. So I had this little thing that I did with, I've done this with my mother's friend, my mother's 70, and I do with her friends. But I also just did it recently.

My son, my son is 27. I did it with three of his friends. Your son is 27? Yeah, he's 37 now. Wow, that's impressive. Okay. Oh, my gosh. Okay, go ahead.

But I reset, I reset the algorithm. And most of you don't know you can do that. I literally went to the Instagram and I reset the algorithm. Wow. And what happened is when you reset someone's algorithm, all the things that they're being fed on a daily inside of their homes, telling them about this, telling that, it goes away. Wow. And in a heart.

beat the things that you're being fed have been lost and then for about a day and a half the algorithm says who are you wow and you have to type in who you are well that's amazing you have to type in i want to see this i want to see it's the same thing when we all started before the algorithm got it so it's so funny to see my sons who were getting this sort of like ideas of what it was to be a man these things that they were supposed to watch videos that were a little bit more violent a little bit more this, a little bit more, that. And then I reset it. And then all of a sudden, you saw on one of my, he wants to be a, he wants to pay the cello.

And now his feet is full of like cello. And I was like, was it full of it before? And he said, no. And I was like, yeah, because your algorithm took you so far away from who you are that until you reset it, you forgot that that was a passion of yours. That was a love. It wasn't something that you were seeing because your algorithm looks feeding everything else. And I tell them, watch that.

Watch what you're being fed and it's it lines with who you want to be. And so it's something that I try to get my young boy, straight men, older people to do. You set that algorithm if you want to be better in life. That's a good point. I like that very, very much. Yeah. Neither of my children is on it, the social media, thank God, so far. But even for my own algorithms, like mine is mostly full of cat and dog videos and elephants, which is great.

but sometimes it's like the algorithm just takes over and then sometimes they'll just be like weird things on there and you're just like weird things yeah you're like where yep yep yeah it's testing you it's testing you yeah it's a simple affair yeah like so I mean it's it's not horrible stuff but you know it's just random right I'm like wait are they just trying to sell me stuff now I don't know what's happening but I like the dog and cat videos that's good all right let's talk about the show for a minute how like when did you find the show um

Sex in the City? Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I found this show when I was still in high school, so 15 or 16. That's great. Yes, I was very early on. Like I said, I'm a little gay boy. I'm clamoring.

Fantastic. A powerful, strong woman for them, an ensemble. Girl, sign me up. I'm done. Excellent. That's why we exist. Yes. We want you all to find us.

Yes, indeed. And even to this day, I still watch all the episodes. When they asked me to rewatch this episode, I said, I don't need to rewatch it. Wow, I'm so impressed. It's so much fun. I was like, I don't need to rewatch this. Are you kidding me? That's this.

When she said the title, I already knew this one when you were in there. You didn't want to go and get, you didn't want to go into the locker room. That's also the newspaper, right? You saw the newspaper out big getting married. Yes. I'm like, I'm like, I'm a gay man. Test me. I can go through it.

Thanks. Hey, I'm Cal Penn, and on my new podcast, here we go again. We'll take today's trends and headlines and ask, why does history keep repeating itself? You may know me as the second hottest actor from the Harold and Kumar movies, but I'm also an author, a White House staffer, and as of like 15 seconds ago, a podcast host. Along the way, I've made some friends who are experts in science, politics, and pop culture. And each week, one of them will be joining me to answer my burning questions. Like, are we heading towards another financial crash like in 08?

Is non-monogamy back in style? And how come there's never a gate ready for your flight when it lands like two minutes early? We've got guests like Pete Buttigieg, Stacey Abrams, Lili Singh, and Bill Nye. When you start weaponizing outer space, things can potentially go really wrong. Look, the world can seem pretty scary right now, because it is. But my goal here is for you to listen and feel a little better about the future. Listen and subscribe to Here We Go Again with Cal Penn on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I live below a cult leader, and I fear I've angered her.

Well, wait a minute. Sophia. Adia knows she's a cult leader. Well, Dakota, luckily it's I'm not afraid of a scary story week on the OK Storytime podcast, so you'll find out soon. This person writes, my neighbor's been blasting music every day and doing dirt rituals, and now my ceiling is collapsing. I try to report them, but things keep getting. weirder. I think they may be part of a cult? Hold up, Sophia. A real-life cult? And what is a dirt ritual? No clue. But according to this person, contractors are tearing down the patio to find out what's going on with her ceiling and her neighbors are not happy. Well, she needs to report them

ASAP. She did! And now they've been confronting her in really creepy ways all the time. So do we find out if this person survives their neighborhood cult or not? To hear the Explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime Podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Crying Wolf Podcast is the story of two men bound by injustice, of a city haunted by its secrets, and the quest for redemption, no matter the price. White victim, female, pretty, wealthy, black defendant. Chicago, a white woman's murder, a black man behind bars. crime he didn't commit. I got 90 years for killing

somebody I have never seen. He says the police are his friends and then that's it. They turn on it. A corrupt detective. How he was interrogated the techniques. That's crazy. A snitch and a life stolen. They got the wrong guy. But on the inside, Lee Harris

finds an ally in his Selly, Robert, who swears to tell the truth about what happened to Lee and free his friend. If you're with me, your goal to I'll take care of you. I'm going to be with you. You stuck with me for life.

Listen to the Crying Wolf podcast, starting on October 22nd, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Big Take podcast from Bloomberg News dives deep into one big global business story every weekday. A shutdown means we don't get the data, but it also means for President Trump that there's no chance of bad news on the labor market. What does a bacon, egg, and cheese sandwich reveal about the economy? Our breakfast foods are consistent consumer staples, and so they sort of become outsize indicators of inflation. What's behind Elon Musk's trillion dollar payout? There's a sort of concerted effort to message that Musk is coming back.

He's putting politics aside. He's left the White House. And what can the PCE tell you that the CPI can't? CPI tries to measure out-of-pocket costs that consumers are paying for things, whereas the PCE index that the Fed targets is a little bit broader of a measure. Listen to the big take from Bloomberg News every weekday afternoon on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In the new podcast, Hell in Heaven, two young Americans move to the Costa Rican jungle to start over.

But one will end up dead. The other tried for murder. Not once. People went wild. Not twice. Stunned. But three times. John and Anne Bender are rich and attractive,

and they're devoted to each other. They create a nature reserve and build a spectacular circular home high on the top of a hill. But little by little, their dream starts to crumble. And our couple retreat from reality. They lose it. They actually lose it. They sort of went nuts. Until one night, everything spins out of control.

Listen to Hell in Heaven on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is the joy of doing this podcast because I had done. never rewatch these episodes myself since we made them, right? So back in the day, they would send us a VHS of like a rough cut before it aired on HBO. And we would rush home and put it in the VHR, you know, what do you call it? I can't be, whatever. All the different letters, you know, letters. And we would watch it, but it might not have every scene or it might have like a graphic that's not done or whatever. But, you know, we were so excited to see it. But then I didn't watch it because I was too busy. We were working in. I was learning my lines and whatever, right? So

rewatching it, sometimes I don't remember stuff. at all, you know? And then sometimes I really, really do, where I might remember what's happening, you know, off camera that day or whatever. But a lot of it, I'm just so incredibly impressed with our writers. Like, our writing is just so great. I think that your show is one of the show that has stand stood the test of time, where you see these women. And even though the generation that it was displaying is different, I still, especially for me, being on a daytime talk show, I see the women going through the same exact thing, the same fears, the same ideas, the same thoughts, the same conversations about maybe someone who's more sexual versus someone who's more traditional and the divide in it. And so it was ahead of its time in a beautiful way.

So congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. We're so lucky. But it's also so fun to hear people who, like yourself, like literally know more about the show than I do. It's so amazing. And it really impresses me so deeply, you know, in terms of. Just like the incredible luck to be part of something like that that lives on for people.

Like for me, I was like, attack of the 5 foot 10 woman. Okay, I know that's probably Natasha because I know who the 5 foot 10 woman is. But that's literally all I remembered about this one. But when I start rewatching it, of course, more things come back to me. Like this is the incredible episode where Lynn Cohen comes on as Miranda's housekeeper Magda. And she's so brilliant. and great. Her gildos out of the side.

Oh, my God. Virgin Mary. It's so mortifying. I had forgotten about that. And Magda Lynn Cohen stayed on into the movies. You know, we had her for a very long time. And she very sadly passed away not too long ago. But she was a great actress, a great, great actress.

And I just remember that the way that their relationship, Miranda and Magda's relationship developed because it starts out in this very kind of uncomfortable way. And then Miranda's bought herself this apartment. You know, she's doing well in her job. And she gets a housekeeper and it's a very big deal. And Carrie's like, you're the housekeeper, you know? And then like she's arranging tea. And Miranda's like, well, I like coffee.

And then, you know, like one thing leads to another. She's like, where's my hairdry? Can't find my hairdry. And then she says, I'm going to reorganize this drawer. And Miranda's like, no. And then she reaches, she opens the bedside table and there it is. and, you know, she's so mortifying, so mortifying. And then the next time Miranda reaches in that drawer, there's the Virgin Mary.

And she has to stand up for herself and go to Magda and say, like, who is this lady in my drawer? Which is like such a crazy funny scene. And Magda's like, that's the Virgin Mary. And then she says, you know, something like she basically just has to stand up. She says, I already have a mother and I don't need another one. and I'm a single woman in New York City and I do have a man that I like but also I have sex

and I'm not going to apologize for it and it's just so great it's so great and like kind of interesting that it needs to be done and that I feel like you still kind of have to stand up for yourself you know in that way

yes when we're on queer one of the main things that a lot of the women that we help that we you know that will support and their transformation a lot of them are feeling is in their lives, they have, they, they, they, they don't know how to find that voice to stand up with themselves. And that's a big piece of like, why we always, especially they, they come in they're like, well, I still have dreams, but yet I don't know if I can say them.

Everyone, I have to do for everyone else, but I don't feel like I can stand up and say I need time for me. And I think what that episode does and why it's still pointing it and important today is it tells women, it tells everyone that if you have something that is important to you, that is, whether it's a sex toy or just your freedom to be who you are, you have to stand up for it. It's true. It's true. I have to stand up for it. It's interesting because it's definitely a through line of the show and it's

interesting to see the different ways that it shows up, right? So like for Miranda she's having this kind of very basic situation where this woman has come into her house and she feels judged and then for Charlotte because they're going to the which I do remember this was directed by Pam Thomas who was a great director.

It's written by Cindy Shupak who has relatively newly joined the show. We first had Darren starred. Then we had Michael Patrick King. Then we got Jenny Bix. And Cindy is our fourth writer that we've hired full time. So now we've got two women, two men. And it's, you know, we're firing on all cylinders in this season three. This is when things are really like clicking together, right? And you're really seeing kind of the overall themes really, really like cement themselves in a way. Yes, yes. And so Charlotte, and I remember this because I remember having a lot of anxiety. That's what I remember about this episode is like, I didn't want to be

wrapped up in a towel. I feel really bad about my thighs. I still feel really bad about my thighs. I am old now and I still feel really bad about my thighs. Like it is so ground into you as a young woman, you know, looking at Vogue, looking at the six feet tall models, you know, the twiggy figures. Still today, you look at these models like Paris Fashion Week just happened. They're tiny. Tiny. Tiny. Tiny. Tiny. Things have not changed. Yeah. I mean, they're supposed to have changed, but have they changed? I don't think so. Actually, I think we're regressing a lot of ways. I mean, I don't know if you saw recently there was, there's this pushback on body positivity. And so it's gone. Like, it's like there's no more, there's no more of accepting all body types. And it's just crazy that something that was just meant to say, hey, we just love yourself. to love yourself, the way you are, has been returned to this idea that, no, it's wrong. We cannot let that stay. We cannot.

I mean, I have a 14-year-old daughter and, you know, I have to really, really retrain myself in terms of, you know, how I talk about food and, you know, because obviously I am still an actress, right? But I talk about, like, healthy, you know, I try to always focus on healthy, healthy, healthy. And, like, when we did decide to go back to work and doing just like that, I hired a trainer and it was COVID still, so we were working out in the yard. You know what I mean? But in my youth, I would have been like,

I'm not thin enough to go back to work. Yeah, yeah, of course. So now I just don't say that. You know, I've retrained my language or whatever because I don't want her. Like, there's enough in the culture, you know, everywhere you look, right? Like, I want her to feel powerful and strong and proud of her body. It's beautiful. They're all beautiful.

But it's such an interesting thing that we have to fight so hard for that, you know? It is. It is. I think a big part of that I have to tell you. And this is where like me is a male, even as a gay man, I say that it's our responsibility as well to step up. You know, when I, when I see, you know, the conversation that happened, it's, it's us to say this is not okay.

It's for us to check other guys. And I'm always constantly telling my sons, but as well, my friends, I'm like, yo, when you hear something like that, you know, say something. Like, speak up. Like, don't let that slide. You cannot let that slide. You cannot let that slide. And I think the more than in the moment, in the moment, you can't let this side.

You can't let one of your boys say something because you think like, oh, my gosh, this is fine. Like it's just a joke. No, a joke for you is someone else's self-esteem being severely hurt. That for you, that joke, it's a joke that you can laugh off and forget. But for someone else that is now they're in their living room or in their bathroom every day, questioning if they're enough, questioning if they look good enough. Right, because it's lodged in there. It's lodged.

in there. And I think it's that responsibility of, you know, all I can do is speak to other men. I mean, I speak to everyone. But like, I say, you've got to speak up in a moment and say, no, cut that stuff. Definitely. That's so good. It's so good. I mean, it's so interesting too, right? Because, like, you know, I'm from the generation that I'm from. And sometimes you're, you're just really hoping that things have changed. But you're right. You can't ever, like, look away or just assume that things are changing because there's, there's, it's an ongoing struggle all different ways. Yeah, ongoing struggle, yeah.

Ongoing struggle, big time. Okay, so the really big theme in this particular episode is about, as you brought up, the newspaper, so I had forgotten this totally, where at brunch, you know, things seem fine. Charlotte is, like, sadly looking at the wedding section. And so we see she's looking and she's talking about how, like, there's some 24-year-old who previously had a job as though, of course, now we're. she doesn't because she's married your stockbroker or whatever also still so true right so interesting and then

of course she turns the page and she sees that big and natasha have gotten married and i try to very badly hide the newspaper under my elbow and of course you know Samantha's like what is that you know and then her face falls and you know poor carry and i had totally forgotten the scene where i go back to carrie's apartment with her and charlotte doesn't want to let her be alone. I had forgotten that, but it's such a sweet, sweet scene. And it's rare that you see Charlotte comforting Carrie, you know? Like usually it's the other way around. So it was really nice. And I think it was so smart of Charlotte. Like this is an area that she knows about and she knows Carrie's going to try to act like she's fine. Well, the funny part is that's the thing that I've always loved about

Charlotte's character is like, okay, even if you go to the movie, that iconic thing when Big didn't show up and Charlotte's the one that's like, no. Yeah. No. So she's always been that fierce protector of carry in love. And it has been the most beautiful thing. She's always been the one that's like, no, I understand love more than any of these women. And I'm going to protect your heart and encourage your heart, but make sure you're not going to be alone in any of these moments. That's a good point. And I think that's what you saw.

That's what you see in that moment. She's like, no, I'm going to be here for you. Let's read it. Let's read it together. Right. And like, let's get through it. So you can have your cry and you're not going to be alone. And then you're going to know that love is still available for you.

Right. I think that's what Charlotte does. So really great. That's so true and very well put. But if you think about it, it's also like now Instagram. Like, could you imagine like today, you and Carrie's character, your character and Carrie's character would have been scrolling Instagram and saw the announcement of the wedding. That's so true.

That's so true. This generation will never understand us opening up newspapers. No, I know. I know. Well, every time we reach for like one of those landlines or those old cell phones, it makes me laugh so hard. But also I have such nostalgia for it. Because things are changing so quickly now, like just so quickly.

It's insane. But anyway, so then the other really huge thing, I just like to talk about the big things first, is I had also completely forgotten that they go to try on clothes, Miranda and Carrie, and they run into Natasha in the next dressing room. Oh, my God. I mean, your worst nightmare, really, literally. like I mean I relate to this so much like you know you think you think like okay I've put it over there in that compartment right you know and I'm fine I'm fine I'm fine and then like the literal woman walks out you know and she's tall and beautiful and so cool she's so composed and carries there in her underwear trying to cover herself up and later when she says like you know she's like she lists off the things like she's this and she's beautiful and she's young and she's tall and I'm short and complicated and my hair is curly and like it's just

it's so real to me how Carrie who we really think of as this very powerful character this powerful woman is just so undone by this situation you know by it not going the way she thought trying so hard for so long you know to get big to show his feelings

and, you know, to try to, like, she tries so many things with them. Do you know what I mean? Like, she shows up at the door. I saw the other day on Instagram, or it must have been at TikTok, where they have just different cuts of her showing up at Biggs' door and all the different outfits, like in her Her Dominatrix outfit and her French made, you know, the beret, like that's later. Like, she just tries so hard, you know, and it doesn't work.

And then he marries this woman who is just the opposite of her, which, of course, we know that that's not going to work either. But she doesn't know that at this point in time, right? Yeah. And it's just so hard to feel, you know, good about yourself and complete when this kind of thing has happened, even though you know you should. Well, but I know, but it's because our culture always makes us want to compare. Like when you said that scene, it's so vivid of like what she says, she's, she's tall, she's beautiful, she's straight hair. I'm curly hair with sex columnist, you know, or something, whatever.

And it's, and, you know, one of my things that I've always. said to people, it's a quote that's not mine, but it's comparison as a thief of joy. And I tell people that all the time. It's still your own joy. And what we saw in that episode is her steal her own joy and forget how beautiful it is. And I always try to think to myself, why do we do that? And what I love about this episode is it shines the light on like, we can't do that. Because as we know, that young woman becomes the most accomplished adult woman in the world.

She becomes the writer. She becomes powerful. She becomes self-assured. But she needed that lesson. Of course. And I think people forget, instead of comparing, we need to say that this was a complete lesson that we needed for that moment. And I think the more you can shift that, yeah. You can shift that mindset, the better off you are.

I think that's great. I mean, I also think that we wouldn't have had a show if she could do that. Exactly. No, of course. No. No, we needed her to be a mess. Yeah, totally, totally. We needed all of them to be going through so much.

So much stuff. Yeah, no, of course. Here we go. Hey, I'm Cal Penn, and on my new podcast, Here We Go again. We'll take today's trends and headlines and ask, why does history keep repeating itself? You may know me as the second hottest actor from the Harold and Kumar movies, but I'm also an author, a White House staffer, and as of like 15 seconds ago, a podcast host. Along the way, I've made some friends who are experts in science, politics, and pop culture. And each week, one of them will be joining me to answer my burning questions.

Like, are we heading towards another financial crash like in 08? Is non-monogamy back in style? And how come there's never a gate ready for your flight when it lands like two minutes early? We've got guests like Pete Buttigieg, Stacey Abrams, Lili Singh, and Bill Nye. When you start weaponizing outer space, things can potentially, go really wrong. Look, the world can seem pretty scary right now, because it is. But my goal here is for you to listen and feel a little better about the future.

Listen and subscribe to Here We Go Again with Cal Penn on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I live below a cult leader, and I fear I've angered her. Well, wait a minute, Sophia. How do you know she's a cult leader? Well, Dakota, luckily it's I'm not afraid of a scary story week on the OK Storytime podcast, so you'll find out soon. This person writes, my neighbor's been blasting music every day and doing dirt rituals and now my ceiling is collapsing. I try to report them, but things keep getting weirder. I think they may be part of a cult. Hold up, Sophia. A real life cult? And what is a dirt ritual? No clue. But

according to this person, contractors are tearing down the patio to find out what's going on with their ceiling and her neighbors are not happy. Well, she needs to report them ASAP. She did. And now they've been confronting her in really creepy ways all the time. So do we find out if this person survives their neighborhood cult or not? To hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Crying Wolf Podcast is the story of two men bound by injustice, of a city haunted by its secrets, and the quest for redemption, no matter the price.

White victim, female, pretty, wealthy, black defendant. Chicago, a white woman's murder, a black man behind bars, for a crime he didn't commit. I had 90 years for killing somebody I have never seen it. He says the police are his friends and then that's it. They turn on it. A corrupt detective. How he was interrogated the techniques. That's crazy.

A snitch and a life stolen. They got the wrong guy. But on the inside, Lee, Lee. Lee Harris finds an ally in his sally, Robert, who swears to tell the truth about what happened to leave and free his friend. And if you're with me, you're golden. I'll take care of you. I'm going to be with you. You stuck with me for life. Listen to the Crying Wolf podcast, starting on October 22nd, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The forces shaping the world's economies and financial markets can be hard to solve.

spot. Even though they are such a powerful player in finance, you wouldn't really know that you are interacting with them. And even harder to understand. Donald Trump's trade war 2.0 is only accelerating the process of de-dollarization, which in a way is jargon for people turning away from the dollar. That is where the big take from Bloomberg podcast comes in to connect the dots. How unusual is a deal like this? Unprecedented. Every weekday afternoon, we dive deep into one, big global business story. The biggest story of the reaction of the oil market to the conflict in the Middle East is one of what has not happened. Katie, you told me that ETFs are your favorite thing. They are. Explain that. Why is that the case? And unpack what it

means for you. Our breakfast foods are consistent consumer staples, and so they sort of become outsized indicators of inflation. Listen to the big take from Bloomberg News every weekday afternoon on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In the new podcast, Hell in Heaven, two young Americans moved to the Costa Rican jungle to start over. But one will end up dead. The other tried for murder. Not once. People went wild.

Not twice. Stunned. But three times. John and Anne. Bender are rich and attractive, and they're devoted to each other. They create a nature reserve and build a spectacular, circular home high on the top of a hill. But little by little, their dream starts to crumble, and our couple retreat from reality. They lose it. They actually lose it. They sort of went nuts. Until one night, everything spins out of control.

Listen to Hell in Heaven on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Samantha's storyline over here is like the spa, oh my God, the masseuse. I had also forgotten about this. I got him fired. I totally slipped my mind. I know. Yes, she got the tip off. I know.

Happy endings. I had totally forgotten that. And I literally have never, ever in my life heard of women getting happy endings at a massage place. Have you? No, I haven't. I think more should, though. I think more should. I guess, though it seems like it would be weird with the stranger.

I don't know. I don't know. I think that maybe there could be a couple of women if they were open to it. Like, there's nothing I'd recommend, but I think, like, why not? I mean, that's true. Like, I mean, a classy establishment. Maybe, yes.

In a classy establishment. I mean, I do feel like massage. I haven't gotten one in forever because I'm too busy with kids and whatever. But like it is such a like a wonderful treat, you know, just to have. Like, and you don't need to know the person is just comforting to just have someone rubbing your body, which is kind of weird to think about.

But the thing that also I had totally forgotten about how Carrie and Samantha then go to that event that Natasha is doing, you know, that charity event, but then Natasha's not even there. Carrie buys these shoes and she has tea with me. And I say, she says, do you want to see my shoes? And I was like, oh, you mean the shoes you can't afford, which is foreshadowing her whole shoe debt, you know, and then wanting the money from me many seasons later.

Like, it's also interesting, like, how connected our writers were in terms of these little moments that then build up over time. But then, so Samantha and Carrie go off. to the event, you know, looking fantastic. Then, of course, Natasha's not there. And then I had totally forgotten that they run into the woman at the spa who had told Samantha that that particular masseuse went down on her. And there were three women there.

And the woman says, that's the one who got him fired. And they're like, oh, what? You got him fired. And then this one woman says, well, who's going to fuck me now? And Samantha's like, what? And I'm like, oh, my God, what kind of drama was going on with this guy? I had forgotten all of that. I mean, it was quite something.

But, I mean, almost I would have to go back to Cindy and ask her what this was based on because usually all of our storylines had to be based on something that had happened to the writers or their friend. It could be once removed. Like, it wasn't the actors. Everyone thought these were our stories. They were never our stories, thank God, because that would be very hard to play your own story, right? Yes, of course. But it was always had to be, like, based in a real story.

So that means there are women out there that are getting their happy endings. I know. I mean, I don't know where, but yeah, I guess good for them. I mean, it's so bizarre to think about it. But it's perfect for Samantha, of course, because she really wanted this. And then she doesn't get it and she's really sad. And then for me, I mean, I feel like, I mean, I don't know, of course. My whole storyline could absolutely be based on me because I hate my legs.

you know, they knew I hate my legs. I was always worried about, you know, what I was wearing or whatever. And I remember that this director, Pam Thomas, she had come from the commercial world. And she always had a really good visual eye. So I remember when I'm running through the spa and it kind of has like comedy music, you know,

and I'm like trying to like little by little ice. I hide behind this like tower of towels and I let my towel down to my waist or whatever. And then I run, I scurry like a little mouse into the spa. and then I take my towel down and I'm all nervous and then this woman goes I would kill for your breasts and I'm like okay like this worked out like I hadn't gone about that you know which I had forgotten that whole thing and I mean it's it's definitely like the comedic you know you there was like there there'd be like an A B, C, D storyline for all four of us and you know that's just how it is when you have four strong leads or whatever you want to define it. is definitely the D, but I still love it. Like, it has so much resonance that, like, you're worried about one thing.

You forget about what you have that other people would want. You know what I'm saying? Yes, of course. That's what we're talking about earlier with a comparison. Like, you see your character being validated later on about something that they were confused about. I think it was the most beautiful part of the scene.

Me too, right. Like, she would never think, like, oh, yeah, I do have good press. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, like, oh, wow, this is the outcome I didn't foresee happening. I dig it. I dig it. Like, it's nice.

It's nice to see even just the little moments of growth, you know, along the way. Because we all know. In the HBO days where they were all still doing like full bush in the like lock-o and stuff. I mean, there was a lot of naked ladies. I was shocked. I don't remember that. I was like, wow. Do you, like, do they prep you and say when you off a lot?

on set there's going to be 40 million naked ladies there like how did like i mean they must have they must have because we this is back before the intimacy coordinators right but we would still i mean gosh you know this is a good question because now what you would need to do like there'd be so many precautions taken right like you know how you have video village on a set right like yeah video village would have been like everyone would have been sent away and to make sure there weren't like looky-loos, you know, at the village and all that to make those women feel safe and protected. And this is a long time ago. So who knows what happened then?

And I didn't even remember that it happened, right? So I'm not going to remember this. But I do think we would have like a clothes set, you know? So let's say like the larger crew wouldn't be standing there, you know, like the lighting guys and the grips. You know what I mean? Like all of those people would go. But those ladies seemed really relaxed. I mean, I'm sure that they had been hired, like, with the knowledge of, you know, what they were going to do.

You know what I mean? But I hadn't remembered that there were that many naked ladies. There were a lot. There were a lot of naked ladies. There were a lot. I mean, it was kind of cool, you know, because it was like, relaxed. They were very relaxed. I mean, it's funny, though, to look back because some of these things I don't remember, and I'm, like, impressed that we did it.

Yeah. It was ahead of its time. For sure. That's why it's a cultural. It's true. It's so nice. It's so nice that it still holds up. And you still don't see these things. Oh, yeah, there's another funny little trivia thing. When they do go to this writing luncheon, we talk about Carrie says she's checking in and they have a weird moment where her name might not be on there. And Samantha and she were talking in. They say, oh, there's Gloria Steinem across the room. Now we never see Gloria Steinem in this particular scene. But later on, Gloria comes on our show and then just like that. And all of us had been

huge Gloria Steinem fans, our moms were all, you know, had Ms. Magazine on the table when we were growing up. There was a big one where she reclaimed her power when she found out that she spelled their wrong. Oh my God.

Yes, that's the real. You're so right. I had forgotten that as well. I had forgotten that as well. So that is the scene after, so she goes to this lunch and thinking that she's going to look fabulous and present herself beautifully

and then Natasha isn't even there which is kind of a disappointment so she goes home and the voiceover kind of connects it all and Natasha even though she didn't make it to the event sends out handwritten thank you notes which is kind of impressive I think but then when she goes to read it

she realizes that Natasha has spelled there wrongly for the sentence and for a writer of course that's, like, hugely important. And she immediately calls Miranda on her clunky old phone and says, I believe she says, it's a good thing she got married. The woman is an idiot. Ooh, who, who.

Burn, burn. My God. But it is kind of that kind of definitely, like, self-claiming amongst ourselves. Like, you know, what? We're smarter. We're better. We can do these things. We're out here in the world.

you know, we're not going to get married and, like, fall back on that, you know? Agreed, agreed. Wait, and then there's something, oh, oh, I didn't realize that the reference in the title is to the 1958 film Attack of the 50-foot women. Oh, yeah. Well, that kind of makes sense, then, because that's what she seems like to carry. You know what I mean? And it does, my notes here do tell me that the New York Times wedding announcements are still a thing,

which is funny. So I guess if you're, like, coming from one of those families, where it was important, you can still do the official, as well as the Instagram. You know what I mean? Right? It's so funny. Now, I want to go get married and put that in there, not because I really want it in there, just because I want to have a moment where an ex opens it up and sees me getting married.

I mean, yeah, that's real. That's real. That's real. I'm joking. I don't want to do it. I mean, listen, you could do it if you wanted. You know what I'm saying. Okay, you want to do.

Right? Yeah, do what you want. And it's just also interesting. thing not to do what your writers did really well and why just to keep praising you all because this really is I'm glad to give you your flowers is those type of scenes like we see Natasha is insecure as well she doesn't want to come she she doesn't want to confront this anymore this is not about like because if I'm on the board of something I'm to come but it just shows that we all have our own securities we're all in our own head and even the most perfect among us we're all making mistakes

And so the best lesson is just live your life for you and love your life how it is. And that's why when they said this was the episode, I thought to myself, oh, I know it. I know this episode because it's just one of the best. I'm so impressed. I'm so impressed. I didn't hardly remember this episode at all. I love it. Well, I'm a super fan.

I'm a super fan. I have a question for you. Yes. Are you a Charlotte? So I believe that you have to find out from other people. So before we got on this, my entire Karamo show staff was upstairs. And a lot of them have also worked with me on Queer Eye for the last 10 seasons. And I said, I need y'all to tell me who I am.

And the general consensus from everyone is that I'm a Charlotte. Amazing. I'm a Charlotte. They all said it. That's so nice. I think the only part that got me is because I'm not as like prudish You know what I mean?

I'm still like a gay man I'm older so like my hoey days are gone And they're behind me But you know, in my 20s She was in a crop In a short short short show It was kind of a prude But if you actually watch

She actually, you know There was a pretty high body count You know what I'm saying Pretty high, yeah She had her fun Yes But yeah They all said no you're the romantic

You're the kind one You're always like telling people to give them an advice and telling them to slow down and be good. That's nice. So apparently I'm the Charlotte. I did know. And they would have asked me, I thought they were going to say I was like, Miranda, but I guess I'm not. I guess I'm not, you know. Maybe you're a man of Miranda inside your own head.

My head, in my head of Miranda. Right. I love it. I love it. I haven't had anyone yet go and take a poll. So I really appreciate that level of research. very nice because you know what

this is my thing when everybody talks about Second City they all want to claim who they are got it and no you got it

and when they claim who they are I'm like no you're not that person I know I mean sometimes I do think like who you are

in your own mind is very different than like how your friends see you or the world sees you or whatever you're pretty exceptional and amazing

sweet thank you yeah you are I'm so thrilled you came on the podcast what a joy anytime anything for you. Oh, you're amazing. Yeah. I would love to come on your show. You're great. Anytime. Yes. Come on. Yeah. All right. Yay. Listen, have a great day and thank you so much. And good luck with everything.

You too. You too. Thank you so much. Bye, love. Bye. the true story of the almost perfect crime and the Nimrods who almost pulled it off. It was kind of like the perfect storm in a sewer. That was dumb. Do not follow my example. Listen to Crimless, Hillbilly Heist on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I live below a cult leader, and I fear I've angered her. Wait a minute, Sophia.

How do you know she's a cult leader? Well, Dakota, luckily it's I'm not afraid of a scary story week on. on the Okay Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This person writes, My neighbor has been blasting music every day and doing dirt rituals, and now my ceiling is collapsing. I try to report them, but things keep getting weirder. I think they might be part of a cult?

Hold up, a real-life cult? And what is a dirt ritual? No clue, Dakota. To find out how it ends, listen to the Okay Storytime podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Cal Penn, and on my new podcast, here we go again. Again, we'll take today's trends and headlines and ask, why does history keep repeating itself? Each week, I'm calling up my friends, like Bill Nye, Lily Singh, and Pete Buttigieg,

to talk about everything from the space race to movie remakes to psychedelics. Put another way, are you high? Look, the world can seem pretty scary right now. But my goal here is for you to listen and feel a little better about the future. Listen and subscribe to Here We Go Again with Cal Penn on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Chicago, a white woman's murder, a black man behind bars, for a crime he didn't commit. 90 years of killing somebody I have never seen.

The Crying Wolf Podcast is the story of a corrupt detective, two men bound by injustice, and the quest for redemption, no matter the price. Listen to the Crying Wolf Podcasts on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Big Take podcast from Bloomberg News keeps you on top of the biggest stories of the day. My fellow Americans, this is Liberation Day. Stories that move markets.

Chair Powell opened the door to this first interest rate cut. Impact politics, change businesses. This is a really stunning development for the AI world and how you think about your bottom line. Listen to the big take from Bloomberg News every weekday after. new on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.