AREA52 - DEBRIEFED With Chris Ramsay - 17 Alien Beings Were Found ALIVE - DEBRIEFED ep. 61

Episode Date: November 7, 2025

AREA 52 Shop: https://www.area52.shopIn this episode, we dive into Chapter Five of Nick Redfern’s NASA Conspiracies — the story of a Wackenhut security guard assigned to protect classified documents at Area 51. Curiosity got the better of him, and what he read was chilling: reports claiming that 17 non-human beings had been recovered and subjected to gruesome experiments, and that even their suits were alive.

In 1943, 17 people of highly strange appearance were brought to Los Alamos. They all looked very much alike. Around five feet in height, hairless, with enlarged heads and oversized eyes. They were brought to the base in a covered army vehicle. Suits seemed to be almost alive or had an inbuilt memory. Blood was extracted, skin samples were taken. and several of the beings were used in radiation experiments in bacteriological warfare tests, a controversial new field of science.

Whatever these creatures were, they hated us to a truly profound degree. I was in the summer, about the 183 north, I had the blanket cutoff, past the airport on the right, seven large rectangles. I thought my truck got out. Then I realized I was mesmerized. I tried to take a picture. And when I was shocked, my friends said they saw it on Facebook. I didn't tell anybody else because I... Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of debriefed. My name is Chris Ramsey. And today we're going to be taking a bit of a dive into a rabbit hole that I consider extremely tantalizing. This comes from the suggestion of my friend Michael Phillip. He is the host of the third. Eydrops podcast. You guys should check it out. I've been on his podcast. I think probably close to half a dozen times. Love the guy. Great content. And if you're into like consciousness-based stuff, I definitely recommend checking him out. But he texted me the other week and he's like,

dude, you should read chapter five of this book I'm reading. It is right up your alley. And boy, was he right. I skimmed through it and I was like, this is exactly what we should be looking into. The book is the NASA conspiracies. The Truth Behind the Moon Landing, Censored Photos, and the Face on Mars by Nick Redfern. Now, some of you may know of Nick Redfern. He is a very popular author, author of a dozen books. I don't know, maybe more. He's definitely someone who hangs around the fringe side of theory, something I can definitely appreciate.

But by no means take this as the gospel or the truth. as with every dive we do here, I highly recommend that you take your disbelief and you suspend it. In fact, suspend both the belief and the disbelief. Leave everything in a quantum field of suspension. It'll be waiting for you when we get back because, as you know, belief often gets in the way of a good story. And boy, we got a good story for you today. Also check out area 52.shop. We have replenished lots of.

the things in there, including the graphic teas which are flying off the shelf. If you do enjoy these rethrus, you might be familiar with Aero and the alien interview featuring this little prison planet convict. Well, we put her on a t-shirt. We got a few

different models for men and women. We also have the famous lizard from Lacerdafiles and of course the men in black and those are available area 52.com. Folks, we paid the bills. Let's get into reading this. This is going to be chapter five of this book. If you want to pick it up, I left the

link below. Special thanks to Nick, although, you know, we didn't get permission to read this. Hopefully he's okay with it because this might just interest a lot of you to pick up his work. So thank you, Nick. Also, fun for me to just be able to read a book and not print out documents or like scour the internet. Just, I'm very used to holding books. I enjoy reading, so this is a lot of fun for me. So folks, it begins. Chapter 5, the Area 51 connection. The following startling account of John, born in Bloomington, Minnesota, a man who served from 1948 to 1959 in the New York Police Department, has a major bearing upon the work of NASA in relation to ultra-secret data on UFOs and alien beings. His account also offers intriguing data suggesting a connection between NASA

and secret UFO-dominated projects undertaken at the infamous Area 51 installation in Nevada, and probably adjacently to S-4 as well, as my guess. The author, Nick, then gets into how he met this quote-unquote whistleblower and what his word actually means here. I first encountered John in the latter part of 2005. After he read my book, Body Snatchers in the Desert, The book was a study of the notorious UFO crash at Roswell, New Mexico in the summer of 1947. Body snatchers, however, took a distinctly different approach to its subject matter

and was focused upon allegations that the Roswell crash had far less to do with aliens and much more to do with secret high-altitude balloon experiments using Japanese prisoners of war and physically handicapped people. Quick side note, Annie Jacobson also has work on this particular theory. Not an uncommon theory in the UFO scope. I'm one to entertain all sorts of theories, by the way. This one is one of the wilder ones. Essentially, the one that Annie Jacobson talks about,

that this was actually from the Germans, that they sent some like mutilated, experiments on a craft and then had it crash into the United States to, I don't know, end up seeding some type of sci-op or what have you. Frankly, I think aliens is probably more probable for some reason, but what do I know? When John contacted me, he explained that during the course of his work with the U.S. intelligence community in the early 1970s, he came across data that seemed to dove tale with some of the material contained in my book. Concerned by the possibility that if he spoke

on the record, he might very well lose his pension from his former employer, Wackenhut. John agreed to a somewhat off-the-record interview, which was conducted in 2006 and reveals the many twists and turns of his story. So who or what is Wackenhut? Let me fill you in real quickly. Wackenhut is a private security company that's been contracted out by various factions of the government, but mainly highly sensitive compartments of the government. So in UFO lore, it's frequently mentioned as providing security at secret bases like Area 51 and being involved with underground facilities or UAP research through alleged ties with defense contractors such as SAIC science applications international. If you want to know more about that, check out UAP Gerb and his channel. He's got a lot of information on the legacy stuff over there. So this guy apparently works for Wacken Hut.

All right. Interesting. John stated that from the latter part of 1957 until the early months of 1958, he and a number of police colleagues were tangentially involved in an FBI undercover operation to try and locate and arrest a Soviet spy. ring that was believed to be targeting and infiltrating a U.S. defense-related company in the city. It was suspected that someone within the company had been compromised by the Soviets, although this was never ultimately proven. The police were involved because the compromised individual had also

suspected links, which again were never ultimately proven with a money laundering mob-based operation. John explained that arrests of several Soviet citizens were made in connection with this particular operation, along with at least two American citizens, partly as a result of his involvement in this operation, and also because he was possessed of a very ambitious character. After leaving the New York police, John was involved in additional work with the FBI and began in late 1959 and continued, albeit sporadically, until October 1970. John declined to describe fully the nature of his work with the FBI,

but stated that it centered upon Soviet attempts to obtain classified files of an intelligence, military, and defense nature from within the borders of the United States. So your typical anti-spy guy, John, apparently, if that is your real name. But in July of 1970, John was approached by several of his old colleagues and was duly offered a very lucrative position within Wackett, a company that, came into being in 1954 to this day, albeit now under the control of Danish organization group for Falk, which obtained Wackenhut in 2002. Indeed, as far back as 1964, Wacken Hut was providing welcome security at NASA's Florida-based Kennedy Space Center. John began working with Wacken Hut in December 1970,

and in February 1971 was asked if he would be interested in doing contract work for a certain, highly secret arm of the U.S. intelligence community operating out of Nevada. Bum bum bum. John was advised that the salary would be very good indeed, that the contract would be for one year only, that the work would ensure for him very significant contracts within the intelligence community, and that it would position him very well for future career prospects. after speaking with his bosses at Wackenhut to secure their opinions and thoughts on the matter, who all strongly urged him to accept the job.

John did precisely that, and as would most people in his position, I assume, I assume when you're left with a dangling carrot in front of you, often you'll begin to chase said carrot. John said that on accepting the new position, he was very soon subjected to a stringent background check and was interviewed on six occasions, twice by NASA's security personnel, twice by the representatives of an unnamed agency, once by someone who identified himself as working for the National Security Agency,

or the NSA, and once by former senior colleague at the FBI. The results of the interviews were apparently satisfactory, and John began working in April 1971 at the location in Nevada that he later came to realize was none of us. other than what today is infamously referred to as Area 51. John revealed that a part of the reason he was given the posting was that as a bachelor, he could remain on base for 27-day stints at a time as required and could then return to Las Vegas

for only three or four days, depending on whether there were 30 or 31 days in the month, before returning to the secret location. This, John said, would not have been the ideal situation for a married man or someone with children. Notably, John was willing to admit to me that those involved in the security screening process knew that while back in Las Vegas, John frequented high-priced prostitutes. But this was not seen as problematic to his posting at all. Rather, the fact that John has no family ties whatsoever was perceived as a bonus when it came to maintaining security out of the area 51.

As John said, even if I'd said something to a hooker about aliens and UFOs, which I wouldn't have done anyway, who was going to believe them? Well, all right, we're getting a little bit of a glimpse into the psychology of said, you know, whistleblower. John here might be the very reason he doesn't want to use his name. Might not be all the NDAs and contracts that he signed, but maybe just the, you know, amount of prostitutes that he threw money at. Now, mind you, Vegas prostitution, I believe, is legal, right? You're allowed to have brothels in Vegas, if I'm not mistaken. So, yeah, you know, guy wants to have fun. He's got no wife and kids.

He's in the place to do it. They don't see any problem with that. Now, if I was screening, arguably, you know, here's a thing. Here's obviously having someone, because if we look back at Bob Lazar, obviously there's a few connections here. Bob Lazare said to have also run a brothel back in, I think, Nevada back in the day as well. And that's been one of the contention points for a lot of people when it comes to Bob's credibility. But again, as mentioned here, I don't think it's too out of the ordinary, especially in the 70s. But what I do find interesting is this idea of your home life. And that's something that Bob also brought up was that

when Bob's ex-wife, I believe, was having an affair, the people that were monitoring his phones and tapping him found out about the affair prior to Bob finding out, which eventually made them decide to look into him more to make sure, you know, the home life was stable, his psychological state was stable, which then tipped off to Bob that he was being, you know, surveilled, which made Bob take people up to the range and see the crafts and whatnot, which eventually got him caught. So their whole modus operandi of these, whether it's the CIA or whether it's the NSA or whoever it is, is to make sure that you got a stable home life or, better yet, like in this position, that you have no home life whatsoever. I would also argue that to

counter that. If you were to hire somebody, say, from Utah, who's out there by the test range that's out in Utah, Dougway, well, it goes without saying that people, a lot of people in Utah are Mormon, a lot of Mormons have large families. I think for the opposite reason, you could hire people with large families as it provides a lot of collateral for the threats that would be, you know, imposed to the people working there, i.e., if you don't do what we say, you know, fill in the blanks. So both could be true. I'm not against that. I think it's an interesting thing to note and a fun little anecdote. Okay. John was always flown both into and out of Area 51, a small aircraft, usually a Cessna, along with three colleagues, whom he got to know very well

in the one year they worked together. There were blinds on the windows of the craft that had to be pulled down after takeoff from Las Vegas and that had to remain pulled down after landing two. And upon landing at Area 51, everyone was required to put on a pair of goggles. These were not normal goggles, however. In fact, they were quite unlike any

that John and his newly found friends and colleagues had ever seen before. The goggles had no split, lenses, not unlike bifocal glasses, and the top section was so thick that it prevented any effective vision. And all that one could make out was a vague blur, all right? So just enough for you to like maybe see where you're going. The only part of the goggles that would have been seen through with any real effectiveness was a small section at the bottom of each lens. As an inevitable result, the wear was forced to look only in the direction of the

ground and their shoes to see where they were going. This was without a doubt done deliberately. John stated to ensure that the person wearing the goggles was unable to make out the particular details of anything that he might inadvertently view on the base in which he did not have official clearance to see. The group was always guided to a bus again with blacked out windows and was then driven for a few minutes to yet another location. When getting off the bus, they were still required to keep the goggles on and were directed to their place of work.

Fascinating, fascinating, fascinating, fascinating. I have never heard of these goggles before, but yeah, why wouldn't they have something like that, some type of blinders for humans? Because you hear a lot of stories of whether it's Bob Lazar, whether it's some other whistleblowers that came out during Stephen Greer's disclosure. Pover Project, who even said that they were, you know, at gunpoint told to look at the shoes of the person in front of them as they were walking. Goggles makes it way easier. You'd think that this would be just common practice for anyone walking around these places. Very cool, very cool piece of lore that I didn't know about. The location in question was a small concrete building approximately 60 feet square.

security at the door was stringent, John added. Upon entering the building, which was simply a bare concrete room, he was finally allowed to take off his goggles. He viewed two things only, the entrance to an elevator, and a concrete staircase that only descended. Sometimes, John said, they would enter the elevator and sometimes they would use the staircase to descend the two floors to their place of work.

He had no idea at all what work was carried out on the first floor below the surface. On arriving at the second floor, there was a second rigorous security screening procedure, a procedure that would follow every time he returned to the base after his three to four days back in Las Vegas. He recalled that after passing through the second security screening, he entered via a large pair of thick metal doors, a long corridor that was around 180 feet in length, and that had six doors leading off it, three on the left, three on the right. His office was the second on the right, and it had a simple lock, identical to a standard lock on the front door of a typical house.

Now, you know, my mind immediately goes to, is this S4? Is this one of those little shacks near, you know? I mean, you'd imagine that out there. Most of that stuff's underground anyway. So whether it's S4 or S2 or what have you, pretty interesting that we might be getting a sneak peek into, some of the ongoings. John was directed to his new office

and was given an initial briefing by three men, all displaying official NASA credentials. He was advised that the location in which he would be employed was officially classed as the History Department. The three NASA men relayed to John that the overall location at which he was working, he says that the term Area 51 was never used during his employment there.

It was only years later that the term became widely used and known to him, was involved in the development of prototype and radical aircraft, biological warfare agents, chemical warfare technologies, and exotic weaponry and something else, in quotations. All right, something else. We like something else. That something else, John said, was research into things that had happened in the 1940s. Well, by God, I think we know what we're talking about here. It very soon became clear to John and his colleagues that they were being employed as custodians of historical files on these subjects. Files that would from time to time be required by base employees during the nature of their work. John stated that there were three reasons and three reasons only that the files of which he was the custodian were ever accessed by anyone. Number one, on a regular basis scientific personnel would require access to the files as a part of the file.

of their work. Two, the files would be used to brief new employees to base if such things were deemed necessary. Three, there would be regular random checks on the part of security personnel to ensure that all of the files were present and had not been tampered with in any fashion. Okay, very cool, very, very cool. Again, I'm reminded of Bob Lazar being briefed. You know, he had a stack of blue files. I wish we knew the color of these, by the way, but regardless, a stack of blue files that he was presented upon his briefing. And the guards there, the security guards, were very strict. Could these security guards all have been Wacken Hut? Could Bob and this gentleman, John, here, have looked at the same exact pieces of paper? Very interesting. I love, I love the idea of thinking that

these worlds are connected in that, although this is 1970, almost 20 years prior to Bob Lazar visiting, still interesting to think that, you know, maybe they still operate in the same way. According to John, the priceless documentation was never allowed out of office, and the briefings for new personnel were always conducted inside the confines of his office by a four-person team from NASA. And if anyone ever needed to access the files as part of their work, they would have, they would have to make pencil notes from the files and pencil notes only. Those pencil notes had to be exclusively written on a bright orange colored paper of an unusually large size. A type John had never seen before or since. He speculated that perhaps this curious color and size

could somehow have been picked up on security screenings if anyone tried to smuggle the paper out of the base. That's probably a good hunch, John. You know, they have ways of tracking everything, I'm sure. John stated that one of his colleagues became the custodian of historical files on prototype aircraft at the base. Another had jurisdiction over historical files on exotic weaponry being developed here,

and another was responsible for the historical files on biological weaponry. John's role was to maintain the historical files on the UFOs. He says that the first two weeks were spent receiving extensive briefs. from personnel on the base. And due to the fact that he was the custodian of such material,

he was allowed to read all of the files with absolutely no restrictions at all, and acquaint himself with the document names and numbers in a fashion that would allow him to identify them with ease if they were ever requested by visitors to the office. That's my type of job right there. Just give me a filing cabinet and be like, This is your filing cabinet. There are many filing cabinets, but this one is yours. Your filing cabinet is your best friend.

That would be me. Me and the filing cabinet full of UFO stuff. Yeah, that'd be cool. I suppose maybe you'd just get jaded and saturated by the information eventually, but man, that first read-through. Imagine doing a read-through in that room? All right. I digress.

John said that the files cover the periods from 1943 to 1968. He added that, as did most people in that era who worked in the official world, he knew that the U.S. Air Force had investigated UFO sightings via its Project Blue Book study that had finally closed the doors in 1969. He elaborated that the files in his office told a far more in-depth and deeply sinister story of official and highly classified UFO investigations in the United States that went far beyond anything and everything in which Project Blue Book had even been involved. John stressed several times that he never saw any UFOs, any live aliens, or any alien bodies at Area 51.

Fair, you know, as a security guard guarding historical files, I would have thought it's suspicious had he mentioned, oh yeah, they would lug bodies through here. This is a compartmentalized facility of the highest order. According to what John learned during his time, this is where it gets juicy. All right. Strap yourselves in, folks. If you're following, if you're at this point of the video,

there's no turning back. Sorry to say, you're stuck with me. The only way through, by the way, is leaving a like and subscribe. All right, let's get back to it. According to what John learned during his time spent at the base, digging deep into the secret documentation in 1947. An incredibly well-hidden group was established deep within the confines of the American intelligence community, which from 1960 onward worked closely with NASA on matters of presumed extraterrestrial nature.

Can we just assume this is like the Majestic Twelve? If you don't know about Majestic Twelve, go watch. I made probably several videos on it. In the late 1960s, John was unsure. whether it was 1968 or 69, the group was radically reorganized. Instead of a number of bodies, such as NASA and the CIA, playing integral parts in the program, but retaining all of their own files and their own input in the process, all of the work, data, and documents were subsequently transferred to a centralized body that operated out of what is now known as Area 51. And it was also at Area 51 that certain NASA, CIA, NSA, and Air Force personnel were offered full-time positions.

that would take them far away from their normal day-to-day activities in their relevant agencies. What we're learning here is that 1969 would have been the genesis of a brand-new outfit that perhaps went nameless, badgeless off the radar that offered money to all of these people to retire their current positions at these intelligence agencies and to effectively assimilate into this, new UFO slash alien endeavor. Yes, said John, the new group continued to have the same input from intelligence personnel that it had before, and much of the membership stayed exactly the same. The only major difference was that all the documentation was removed from the vaults

of different intelligence agencies and from NASA and was taken to Area 51 for consolidation. Anyone in NASA in the intelligence field and in the military who worked on the project was required to transfer to Area 51 too. John felt strongly that this is for this chief reason that no one to date has ever been able to access any data that conclusively proves NASA has been engaged in high-level UFO-connected conspiracies. All of the relevant records that might have been related to such issues, he fully believed, were removed from NASA's vaults back in the late 1960s.

And as a consequence, will never, ever surface for official declares. classification under the freedom of Information Act legislation. Obviously, if you're going to FOIA request UFO stuff, you're just going to get surface level. Like, probably rare would you get something groundbreaking? I mean, we have uncovered quite a bit, but compared to what's hidden is probably, it's probably not even comparable. So that would make sense. By the way, I get a lot of phone calls. I get a lot of emails, a lot of messages from people in various places in the government and also government contractors. But if any of you are out there and you don't want to come public, totally fine.

I'm not one that's going to, like, blow your cover. But if you can confirm to me in some capacity that what we're reading is just yay or nay. If you could just like hit me up and be like, listen, I work, I may have worked in some of these stuff and this is the reason why what he's saying is true or this is the reason why what he's saying is BS. I would appreciate it. Not that I would believe you, because again, if you can't identify yourself, but I will, you know, catalog it. Certain people, very influential and power wielding people allied to the original program, were considered to have gone rogue to a significant and deadly degree. and had gone way beyond their normal remit to keep certain UFO secrets hidden from the public, the press, and even from elected government officials, which may have included the office of the president of the United States.

This, said John, was part of the reason for having a centralized location for the many files and documents. A number of them referenced a variety of controversial and highly secret actions that had to be undertaken to hide the alien truth. These were, in many ways, more sensitive. than the UFOs and their alien crews themselves. If these files were scattered around the vaults of numerous agencies, explained John, there was a very strong chance that at least some of them might eventually leak outside of the official circles. Those rogue individuals, he revealed, had not complied with orders to relinquish their files,

and as a result, some files were found to be missing from secure vaults. Other documentation, supposedly, had been shredded, but it was strongly suspected that they had not been destroyed after all. On top of that, certain people with clearance to see such material had vanished never to be seen again. Or were found dead under questionable circumstances. Now, this is starting to sound a little bit more like the legacy program I know. Or at least, the legacy program that we've been told exists. John recalled that the files he read had one curious similarity.

The cover page on each, and every one, was missing. You explained that all the files were stapled. Many of the documents had a tiny piece of torn paper stuck under the staples, clearly indicating that the cover page had been carelessly torn off. In turn, a new cover page had been added, a blank piece of paper with a new pencil-written title, affixed with a paper clip to the second page. That's an interesting thing to invent if you're just in.

inventing stuff, but if true, that's interesting and would probably be because it featured whatever agency had that paper. So if it was NASA or CIA or whatnot. He was told that these copies had come from the office of a man who had a major role to play in secret UFO investigations in the late 1950s and early 1960s. And in addition to the files he had legal access to, the man had obtained some of them after they had been stolen from the vaults of other U.S. intelligence and military-based agencies. He then kept them in a secure location and assigned his own filing and naming system to the files. The man was also suspected of having shredded numerous documents that all dated from the mid-1940s for private obscure reasons of his own.

The files were never duplicated and told stories that are now, one is almost forced to presume, utterly lost forever. John alluded to the possibility that this man was none other than the infamous James Jesus Angleton, who was appointed counterintelligence chief of Central Intelligence Agency by CIA director Alan Dulles in 1954. All right? Folks, we now get into some of the documents that our protagonist John had the pleasure of reading and some of the most interesting documents contained within this little filing cabinet. Confidential. The earliest document John recalled was, he said, without a doubt, the most disturbing one to.

It dated from 1944 and was essentially a very long letter of complaint to the wartime office of strategic services OSS. From a certain medical man who was then working at the secret Los Alamos laboratory in New Mexico and whose team had been required to carry out tests and experiments on a, group of very unusual looking people who had been secretly brought into the installation. In the letter, the doctor was complaining to a military officer about the nature of what was being asked of his team and was extremely concerned about why these people looked the way they did. How do they look, you might ask? Well, let's get into that. John said he remembered clearly reading that at some point in 1943, 17 people of highly strange appearance were brought to Los Alamos.

They all looked very much alike, around five feet in height, hairless, with enlarged heads and oversized eyes. They were brought to the base in a covered army vehicle, were totally naked, and walked in a stiff, jerky fashion. He stressed that the eyes of the people were normal apart from their size. In other words, they were not the large black hypnotic eyes that are usually ascribed to the stereotypical diminutive alien that dominates today's popular call. culture. The group of people, or creatures, was taken to a secure location at Los Alamos and threw out the course of four months was subjected to a variety of medical tests. Blood was extracted, skin samples were taken, and several of the beings were used in radiation experiments in bacteriological warfare tests, a controversial new field of science. Oh, that's pretty dark.

That is pretty dark. Hmm. 17 is interesting because if you look at Asse, Now, obviously, Aztec happened in 1947, the crash in Aztec, New Mexico. There were, I think, 16 bodies, but they were indeed unalived already upon retrieval. The doctor described all of this in a truly nightmarish fashion. The people never, ever spoke and only made strange noises like a cross between a seal's bark and a hiccup that was very loud and highly disturbing. They would have to be restrained by military personnel before any of the tests could be performed, and they were fed on a diet of mashed and condensed mixtures of various fruits and occasionally mashed potato and drank only water and milk. According to the doctor, he was told by the military that they were malformed people,

who had been secretly taken from asylums and hospitals for use in classified military experimentation and nothing else. I mean, even in the 1940s, this doctor wasn't as credulous as you might think. You know, he's, I think he knows the difference between like a physically malformed person and 17 identical naked, alien-looking creatures that all spoken weird languages. As a medical man, the doctor wrote that he found the explanation to be highly suspicious. There was, he believed, very little likelihood that 17 people could, all be afflicted in such an extremely strange fashion. And the world's mainstream medical community didn't know anything of it.

The doctor advised in the pages of his letter that rumors at Los Alamos suggested that no one, not even the military who brought them to Los Alamos, knew who or what these people were or where they were from, but they apparently had been found wandering around somewhere in the Arizona desert. All of the 17 people died before the end of 1943. in their bodies were carefully removed for autopsy by the military as they died one by one. No one was ever able to communicate with any of the 17 people, and the doctor complained bitterly about the way in which he and his team were threatened,

physically and mentally by the military, and told never to discuss the matter of strange beings outside of the Los Alamos installation. Again, par for the course when it comes to threatening and working with scientists, that are studying aliens. The file said John referred to additional documents on these strange-looking people that he was told in his briefing had been destroyed by the man from whom they had originally been taken, bizarrely. John was informed, no record of these diabolical experiments now existed. Apart from this one solitary letter, in addition, the location of the bodies of the 17

creatures or people was now unknown, and the entire paper trail appeared to have been destroyed decades ago by the people who had been involved and implicated in the project. It was suspected, however, albeit only by word of mouth and institutional memory, that in some fashion, the being found in the Arizona desert in 1943 were directly linked to the dead bodies of unusual appearance that were said to have been recovered by U.S. military near Roswell, New Mexico in the summer of 1947. Does this lend credence a little bit more to his theory of, of, mutilated, mutated people that have been like sort of falsely implanted into, you know, fake UFOs? Or does this just mean we're dealing with multiple crashes that happened potentially before

1947? Next up, top secret. There was only a very large file at John's disposal titled Autopsies, Bodies Unknown Origin, 47. That dealt with the bodies of eight equally straight. looking people found in the New Mexico desert. There was no reference in the autopsy report to an accompanying spacecraft or vehicle at all. In the summer of 1947, which John had the opportunity to read at length. All of the quote-unquote people were substantially like the creatures taken

Los Alamos in 1943. There was no name on the document to identify the writer. However, John suspects that the name was probably on the missing original title page. He also noted with some significance that a small NASA crest appeared on each and every page. Given the fact that, as internal references made very clear, the documentation had been generated some years before NASA had even come into being. The aforementioned crests had to have been added at a later date, perhaps speculated John when NASA managed to obtain a copy of the document for its own scrutiny and evaluation. John also recalled that the file stated that the 8.5.

bodies that of the eight bodies, four were preserved, pretty much intact, two were autopsied, and their remains were then completely disposed of, and two were dissected, and their body parts and organs were carefully cataloged and preserved separately. John said that the documents referred to a series of both color and black and white photographs of the beings, of the autopsies, and of their organs. However, at no time did he ever see any photographs in any of the files in his possession. Several of the bodies were extremely badly damaged in a fashion that suggested some form of violent accident had occurred. And the rest were relatively and surprisingly good condition. It was claimed. The report was very detailed and covered the major bodily organs, the brain, the eyes,

the ears, the skin, which was described as being sickly, white, gray color, as well as the fingers and toes, blood analysis, the limbs, and the teeth of the entities. Well, folks, we did do an episode on some type of alleged whistleblower that had worked as a geneticist or a microbiologist on these bodies. And it would be really cool if he gave us some details here that we could corroborate with said document. Whitley Streber also the fifth mind, I think, the fourth mind or the fifth mind, fifth mind. but at a book recently talking about that very document as well. Interestingly, there was another top secret file that had the handwritten title of autopsy's Bodies Unknown Origin 47, biological problems and deaths that dealt with an unknown virus

that had reportedly contaminated and killed an entire medical team that had examined one of the bodies. All of the medical personnel had the foresight to wear protective suits, but these were apparently completely useless when it came to providing adequate biological protection. Curiously, none of the other bodies exhibited any signs of this unidentified killer virus. Ugh. Imagine that's the thing that just, like, undoes humanity is one alien here, and it, you know, it's bringing COVID-308.

Uh-right. John stated that one report in particular interested him greatly. It was titled, suit study 48 Armageddon. It was a lengthy document that was focused upon a scientific study of the clothing that had been found on certain bodies recovered in New Mexico, 1945. That same clothing was a yellowish color and was a one-piece outfit that extended from the lower neck right down to the bottom of the feet. It apparently took several hours to remove the clothing of the creatures by forcibly cutting through the material. Upon examination, it was determined that the suits were put together in what today we would term a Velcro style fashion.

However, the suits seemed to be almost alive or had an inbuilt memory because not only could the individual fibers bond when brought close together, but they also appeared to bond with the exact same corresponding fibers time and time again. Whoa. You know, often, especially in alien lore, are we presented with these, you know, tight-fitting onesies. Some of them silver in nature, some of them scaly, some of them just thread-like, like a high-count silk fabric. But they're often described as having no wrinkles, being absolutely perfect. And, you know, much like Dwarven armor might be able to fit its wearer perfectly. What technology? And is that where what Velcro comes from? That's kind of cool.

Never considered Velcro being alien technology, but makes sense. The most bizarre aspect of this file centered around one of the scientific personnel, the shortest member of the team, who chose to try one of the suits on. No way. Having finally learned how to undo the suit with ease, his colleagues held it open for him to climb into. somewhat alarmingly the suit quickly molded itself around the man. Due to his size, the suit was not comfortable, but could at least be worn. Something very curious and ominous occurred when the outfit was dawned. However, the man began to feel very claustrophobic and started to receive disturbing images in his mind of a dark and frightening future for the earth and for all life on the planet,

and particularly so for the human race. It was a future that was dominated by an irradiated world, ruined cities, huge atomic mushroom clouds looming miles upward into an ever-black sky, as strange objects resembling flying saucers flew across the ravaged landscape. Perhaps most worryingly of all, the human race had been reduced to absolutely minimal levels as a direct result of a deadly virus of unknown origins that targeted and destroyed the human immune system. The man in the suit received a distinct and disturbing impression

that whatever these creatures were, they hated us to a truly profound degree, and there was some sort of plan in the works on their part to try and spark off a nuclear holocaust between the United States and the Soviets, as a means to take us all out of the picture. That's dark. Now, maybe there are benevolent aliens.

Maybe there are evil ones. Was it Lucerta that said that there were some... Yeah, I think it was in Lucerta. She said there were some species out there that really hated us that wanted to see us, like, be annihilated. Ooh. Correctly sensed. sensing that he was in deep distress, the man's colleagues and friends quickly ripped the suit off him.

A report was soon prepared, noting carefully that the man was briefed intensively by a team comprising NASA and CIA personnel with particular expertise in matters of a psychological nature. The file also stated that this bizarre episode was a further clue to the fact that the suit was somehow alive and appeared to be linked with the minds and memories of the creatures that had previously warned them. Perhaps most weird of, weirdest of all, was a note in the file that stated the suits were thereafter kept locked away in a secure guarded vault and were considered to be nothing less than intelligent hazards. Whoa. This is wild. This is absolutely wild.

This is bananas. This takes the cake. The bees knees here. You know, we hear about the spaceships or the crafts that these. aliens inhabit having some type of intelligent skin? It would make sense that if that technology were readily available, that they would have transformed it and adapted it to suits. Also, again, further illustrates the idea that these beings might somehow be attached to the craft and or the suits, that perhaps they are these soulless drones that simply

have some type of hive mind or at least collective consciousness. Whoa, so weird. Most of the additional files, recall John, fell into two particular categories. One, there were dozens and dozens of very technical papers on two glider-type aircraft that have been found in and retrieved from the New Mexico desert in 1947. These dealt with structure landing gear and much more that John could not recall. Two, there were also literally hundreds of one- and two-page memos from and two various personnel discussing ongoing projects, many of which focused upon biological and bacterial issues and UFOs. John said that there was never any reference in the files to the creatures or the aircraft being definitively extraterrestrial in origin.

Indeed, no one seemed to have any solid awareness of what they were or what might have been. their point of origin. So the ultra-terrestrial option is still on the table, interdimensional, you know, not necessarily extraterrestrial. John told me that there was a small collection of documents dating from July 1947, speculating that this might have all been the result of an ingenious hoax on the part of the Soviets. Until that is, it very quickly became apparent to one and all that not even the Soviet Union would have had the required expertise to successfully pull off such a fantastic ruse, much less biologically alter or mutate a number of human beings into something so different. Another theory mentioned in the records, John asserted,

that this was all part of a U.S. cover story to hide far more down-to-earth Cold War atrocities undertaken on mentally and physically handicapped people. John stated that among the people with whom he worked, however, there were three possibilities that were considered as being among the most interesting. Possibility number one, these things were from another world entirely. Possibility number two, they were from somewhere on earth, other dimensions, or more remote parts of the world were discussed. And number three, they were, incredibly, from our very own distant future. John added that in discussion with colleagues at Area 51, he learned that even by the turn of 1970s, there was still no definitive proof to what these creatures were or from where they came. But there was one point that, for some of the personnel, strengthened the time travel idea. Although the glider aircraft recovered in New Mexico were most certainly highly advanced, technologically speaking, several components within the craft were constructed in feet and inch measurements.

A system that John concluded aliens from a distant planet would simply not employ. In other words, the craft themselves and the entities that built them seemed to be connected to us to a significant degree. Whoa! I've never heard of that. That is wild. That is wild. Now, you know, some of you're thinking, well, why Americans? Why not centimeters? I mean, what if Americans were the first ones to discover this stuff, then they would, you know, everything, they would have would be measured in perhaps inches. I don't know. It's super weird. The most suspicious aspect of the whole affair for NASA, however, was not only were these creatures apparently completely comfortable breathing our air, but they were also perfectly synchronized

for the Earth's atmospheric pressure, too, which seemed to be too coincidental. John said that this information decisively split the teams into two camps, one that favored the idea that these creatures were from Earth, either from a time far in the future or from some secret location on the Earth and our present, and one that believed that they were indeed aliens that had been genetically altered in some truly radical fashion that involved these science far beyond our own to allow them to comfortably operate on our planet. Whoa. I still maintain the AI theory. Like these are some type of like AI drones that are sent here to monitor the Earth, probably sent to a billion.

other planets. John remained with the program for the pre-arranged one-year contract and then carved out a career for himself to the private sector, which included doing security background checks on people applying for jobs with NASA before finally retiring in the winter of 1981. His thoughts and theories on this curious affair, as well as his exposure to the files at issue, are intriguing. As he pointed out, he had absolutely no expertise in the area of UFOs whatsoever. And so why if it was such a huge and important secret was he even briefed on the subject matter in the first place. In addition, he wondered, given the alleged magnitude and significance of the operation, is this not the type of job that a person would have been drafted into for his entire working life,

rather than just for a mere 12 months at most? That's a really good point. It's interesting that John himself brings that point up. Taking these facts into careful consideration, John stressed that although the documentation at issue certainly looked genuine. He was never able to entirely dismiss from his mind the possibility that this exposure to the files could have been part of some large curious and convoluted mind game on part of NASA and the intelligence services such as the CIA, Air Force Intelligence, and the NSA. Because his work at Area 51 and his access to the files came about as a direct result of his FBI contacts,

John speculated that his superiors may have exposed him to totally bogus materials at Area 51. and then watched his every move to see if he spoke out of turn. The fact that John never did speak out of turn in that 12-month period and was thereafter considered utterly trustworthy led him to be rewarded with a near decade-long career in the private security sector. It was a career that saw him move practically effortlessly with highly influential circles in the world of U.S. intelligence that were totally unconnected to UFOs.

The truth may really be out there. but it appears to be a truth that is guarded and protected by an infinite number of Hall of Mirrors style cover stories. Wow. You know, up until that very last paragraph, I also was like, this guy could just be saying anything. But he echoes much of what Bob Lazar says in that he is so familiar with the way that these intelligence agencies work that, like, he wouldn't put it past them. to do some type of weird sort of passage material sciop in that if you're given certain information

so specific that if leaked they would know who leaked it, right? It's like individually curated for every person and maybe him and the three friends he was with were all given different compartmentalized

bogus information or the information that they were given was mixed with bogus information to see if they had what it took to work in the private sectors. Because as he said, why would you only hire him for one year? And then once you did hire him for one year, like why wouldn't you renew his contract if he didn't talk? So that does actually, I don't know what to make of it. It is smoke and mirrors, dude.

It's not just a hall of mirrors. It's genuine magic tricks. Misdirection at its finest. Who knows? But man, what I wouldn't give to see one of those suits. Could you imagine? My brain is a little bit in a blur right now. I'm trying to piece together a lot of that information that was laid out here before me. But should you come across any type of connection that I had missed, please let me know in the comments. I feel like there's a lot that we can pull from this particular chapter. Very interesting. I'm going to be reading the rest of this book.

This is Nick Redfern. If you want to check it out. I'll leave the link below. Fascinating to just pull a random chapter. Shout out to Michael Phillip for suggesting that. And if you guys have any books that you would like me to read, whether on or off the podcast, let me know. We also do have a book club over at the Area 52 Discord. We are currently reading American Cosmic by Diana Posulka. If you want to join in on that or any other future activities, come and join us on the Discord. Join the membership to check out the extra videos. not to mention secret access to the Discord and much, much more. Early access on every video, by the way.

And yeah, check us out, area 52.shop, yada, yada, yada, yada. Folks, you've been nothing but patient and nothing but understanding. I appreciate you watching this far, and I look forward to seeing you on the next one. Peace and love.