AREA52 - DEBRIEFED With Chris Ramsay - Bob Lazar Tells me Everything - DEBRIEFED ep. 83

Episode Date: April 10, 2026

Invisible College Merch: https://area52.shop/ Watch "S4: The Bob Lazar Story" here: https://www.wearenotalone.com/ In this two hour interview, I sit with famous whistleblower and former Area 51 employee, Bob Lazar. We discuss his entire journey, including the making of the documentary, revelatory evidence that surfaced during the filming and some pretty interesting facts you probably didn't know about his life. This episode was recorded in April of last year (2025)

Well, there's several out there of extraterrestrial origins. People, you know, always said, well, how did you feel? How did you feel going? How did you feel when you first looked at the craft? It's not excitement. It's an ominous feeling. It's just we're so used to something else. It's like, you know, people say, well, that must have been so cool.

No, it was not cool at all. It's like I actually wanted to go back out. It's a really creepy feeling in there. Galileo was the project I was involved in that dealt with the power. propulsion system of the craft. This is where they talked about reverse engineering, extraterrestrial equipment. This is when I really realized, okay, we are reverse engineering something that some other entities made.

You know, this is where it became real for me. And if they have a machine that is producing its own gravitational field, they really want to know how to make more. of those. Do you ever wish you could forget what you saw? Oh, no, not at all. No. No, I want to, I want to see it again. I want to know more about everything there. If you could ask somebody who worked at us for right now, right? If you could talk to them right now, what's something you'd ask? What did you find out? Where did we go from there? I mean, tell me anything. Yeah. Tell me, how was the power generated?

How did the components communicate to each other? What range did they work? Just tell me anything. Fill in any blank at all. It's like having a crosswood puzzle with nothing in it. Just please put a letter anywhere, and I'd be happy. He rotates the emitter further than he did before, and a little black dot, a little ball forms there.

And as I walked out under the craft, I couldn't see the craft. As I got closer to it, the craft just turned into sky. What I was seeing was the light bending around the craft. Imagine if you could control that, right? You could do, I mean, what you could do. If you could have taken one small item from the hangar with you, what would it be? From the hangar. We're from the lab.

That's kind of a trick question there. Boy, I just don't want to get into that. All right. All right, yeah. I mean, actually, to answer the question, I may have already done that. Do you like the sound of your own voice? Yeah, it's kind of weird. Yeah, I don't really like it, but I have to deal with it. Yeah, no one does. Well, especially after doing this documentary.

Yeah. Yeah. Do you ever get sick of watching yourself on video? I can't tolerate myself on video. It's just like listening to your voice. It's, uh, anytime I look at myself, I'm disappointed. I mean, I never meet my own specifications. If I look at a sketch I made, I mean, oh my God, how embarrassing.

So, yeah, I don't know. I don't live up to my own specs. I'm, I think everybody's their own worst critic. Mm-hmm. I've had to overcome that in the decade long, you know, incessantly filming and hearing myself and then editing myself on top of that. It, uh, yeah, it's enough to, uh, to make you never want to do it again. but you got to, I got to climb that hurdle every single time.

Yeah, yeah. So we're in this together. All right, Bob Lazar. Welcome, welcome to the skiff. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Glad to be here. Yeah, good to have you here.

Thanks for doing this. I really appreciate it. I know that these interviews, I know that you rarely do them, you know, and not because you're being evasive, but because you feel like you've told your story. Yeah, I really. have. It's um, I thought initially I did one story and then I made a videotape and thought that would be it. And if anybody wanted to know the story, they could just play the tape. Yeah. But, um, you know, people had other questions. Other things happen. And so I do it. I don't really like doing any public

appearances and, but, uh, you know, once in a while I stick my head above. Yeah. Well, I appreciate it. And I'm sure everybody watching or most people watching appreciate it. Yeah, this undertaking of doing this project with Luigi's Project Gravator or S4, the Bob Lazar story. I mean, this has been something you've been doing for almost three years. Yeah, it was after doing Jeremy Corbell's film, I really thought that would be the end. and I had really no interest in doing anything, anything further at that point. Yeah. And, you know, it was contacted by Luigi.

I think I kind of, you know, skip taking his phone calls here and there for a little while. But eventually we hooked up and he said, like, I really, it was so motivated and said, just let's show exactly what you saw. And, you know, eventually I relented and said, okay, let's go for it. I'll tell you exactly the way everything was. If you want to do graphics, I'll correct everything to exactly what I saw. And, I mean, to my surprise, he really, really did it. The graphics I've seen out, the CGI, looks like it was literally downloaded from my brain. It's impressive.

I can't tell it from reality. It's exactly like. So I'm anxious to see the upcoming film because it's from the little clips I've seen. And it's, uh, yeah, it's what I saw. That's a, that's, I mean, that's an incredible statement, um, and a great testimony, you know, to the project. Um, I myself have had the opportunity to see select clips and even, you know, try the, the VR version. Oh, that's really cool. And yeah. And, and, and I mean, the one thing that struck me putting this on for the first time, you know, and, and, and, and, and.

for someone who's been following your story, your journey, and really trying to, like, dig into this and try to make connections and, you know, figure out, you know, what's going on with this project right now. Putting this on, putting this mask on and being in that place, to me, didn't feel, I didn't, I thought I was excited at first. And then an overwhelming sense of dread. See, that's amazing because that's exactly how I felt. And for him to be able to present that on film, it's surprising to me that that can be conveyed that way. Because when I walked in there, people, you know, always said,

well, how did you feel? How did you feel going? How did you feel when you first looked at the craft? It's not excitement. It's an ominous feeling. Yeah. And when I showed it to my friend, or Luigi showed it to my friend, Gene Hove, who I had confided in at that time, he said, wow, it's really, it's really creepy. It's almost an ominous feeling. I said, that's exactly it. How do you get that feeling through that? So to me, that's what told me Luigi hit the nail on the head. Yeah. Because it, I can't describe it, but you experienced it too. Yeah, and I think I'm excited for people to experience that, if that's even something to get excited about people, you know, feeling terrified.

But it is this, it's almost, it's almost so strange because you understand the, pardon the pun, but the gravity of this situation, right? When you're seeing human technology so primitive compared to this, you know, pristine, beautiful. beautiful, perfect vessel that's just sitting there with wires coming out of it, of extension cords. And there's just that dichotomy of our tech versus theirs, you know, and the fact that this is like hidden in a, in a hillside somewhere. Right. And that you're there and you get to witness it is, um, is really impressive.

Um, but I mean, the dark pewter color of this craft doesn't help. I mean, it also, you know, no. nothing. I mean, it has no human marks on it. You know, there's nothing is, nothing is superfluous. There's nothing extra on the craft. Not a, not a line, not a bump.

There's nothing stylized. Everything there has a specific function. Yeah. And there's really nothing that we make like that. And also everything has different shapes in our world. Everything has sharp corners or round corner. But everything in the craft didn't. It was all the same, all the same material, all the same sheen, all the same radius of curvature on everything.

It's really a weird environment. And even the way light plays itself inside there. I was talking to Luigi about this, you know, when he was trying to get the craft to work, because he has it working in an actual physical environment. And we can put in spotlights. And the one time I was inside the craft, they had the little tripod halogen lights set up inside. So there were some other guys working

and we came in to see the placement of the reactor. And the lights were on full brightness and they didn't light up the inside. They lit up where they were shining. But it doesn't refract anywhere. It really, it doesn't, you can have a light shining straight at a wall here and coming back trying to work here

and you're working in the dark, and it's just a really weird environment. But the fact is that happened in Luigi's simulation, which again really impressed me because I said, apparently, you really got it because it's not the material. Apparently, it's the angles. Yeah.

And I mean, not only that, it just, you know, for a lot of people out there, I think it validates what you're saying at the same time. Because, you know, to say something like that prior to making, it almost doesn't make sense. Right. Right.

So when you say, oh, we put the lights in the craft, these halogen lights, but it didn't get brighter, it stayed dark. You think, well, I mean, just turn the brightness up on the lights, right? Yeah, that's nonsense. Yeah, but Luigi, I think, he said he turned it up to 600 percent and it still didn't get brighter. And I said, that's exactly it. Yeah, how strange. And that's partially because, I guess, yeah, the non-reflective sort of matte metal almost that was absorbent, I guess, light absorbent. Yeah, but it wasn't that absorbent.

It's, you know, it wasn't, what do they call it, Vantablack or anything like that to suck light in? No, I mean, it was a pewter color. It shouldn't, but that's how it works. Just non-reflective, really. Yeah. I mean, the whole craft is just kind of an enigma. So let's go back into this project. I want to talk a little bit about meeting Edward Teller.

initially and what that was like for you as a young man. I mean, and with, you know, the documentary, there's even proof now that Edward Teller was at Los Alamos University giving a lecture on the day that you said he was there. And there's proof of that. There's footage of that. Yeah, I'll tell you what happened. I mean, I was working at Los Alamos. It was a slow day. And in the Los Alamos paper, that day just happened to be the day I was on the, front page of the paper. I mean, I drove my little Honda car to work every day that I put a jet engine in. And sometimes I just drove with the jet to Los Alamos and, you know, that security would flip out about that. But it became noticed and, you know, the newspaper did, well, we'll do a front page thing on this guy. On that day, Edward Teller was giving a lecture at the lab. In fact, if you flip over the front page, right on there, it'll say Ed Teller giving a lecture at the lab about, you know, nuclear weapons. I don't remember specifically the topic about nuclear weapons, but that's what it was.

And it was kind of slow day at the lab, and I wanted to go see the lecture. So I left early to go there. When I got there, Ed Teller was sitting outside on the block wall by, you know, plays he was going to speak at. And I walked out, and he was reading the paper. So I walked out, you know, and said, you know, apparently waiting for someone or waiting to let them out. But I walked up and introduced myself and I said, you know, hey, I'm Bob the guy on the front. And anyway, we got to talking and, you know, it was really cool because he's a guy out of history. Oh, my God, yeah.

You know, big time. So that was really neat. And, you know, went into, you know, watch his presentation, so on and so forth. Time goes on. You know, I eventually leave the lab, start a business on my own, and start contracting with the lab instead of working for them. And then, you know, move to Las Vegas and have been out of the scientific community for a while and just kind of started missing it and said, I've got to do something else. So I started sending resumes out and sent one to him. And, you know, getting a few back here and there and finally get a response from him saying, you know, I think there's some people that might be interested in you.

And he gave me a contact at EG&G special projects. So I went down there. They were at that time, they were based at McCarran Airport in Las Vegas, big building. And I have no idea what EGNG special projects. We still don't. Yeah. Apparently there were special projects. project. But went in there and, you know, had an interview, did really well and kind of went home,

and it didn't hear anything. I guess that didn't pan out. But eventually they did contact me and said, you know, there's another job I think you would be better suited for. Why don't you come back in? So I went back in, had a different interview. And anyway, that was the job for S-4. How different was that interview? Like, can you give us- It's the same. It was just different people. Different people? Yeah, it was just different people. Were the questions more scientifically oriented or were they personal?

The second set of questions were almost exclusively what I did in my spare time. The first one was all technical stuff. Yeah. What do you do? What do you do when you leave work? What do you do here? You know, what have you built anything? You know, what?

It was all after the fact questions. Did that strike you as like a little strange? Really, really unusual. So I've never run into that before in any interview. And it's just kind of like they were taking the information from the first interview and just adding any kind of personal stuff to it. I mean, you know, do you drink, you know, do you go out, you know, after work? Do you go, you know, running around the bars and things?

And, you know, anyway, answering all that stuff. And, you know, went back home, but eventually they called me. Yeah. And at this point, you're like, cool, got a job. Nice. Yeah, got a job nice. And what they said, it's advanced propulsion technology. And it's, it was supposed to move into a two weeks on, one week off thing where I would actually stay out at the test site. So. Yeah, you were already doing a lot of work on propulsion yourself with like the jet engine, but your passion as well. is sort of propulsion is, you know, blowing stuff up. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, anything due with a jet or rocket engines or, I mean, anything high energy, you don't microwave. If it's just harnessing tremendous amounts of energy and controlling it, I'm on board with that. This seems like a perfect fit then. Yeah, I guess it well. Yeah, as it turned out to be, exactly, you harnessing tremendous amounts of energy and focusing it the way you need it. Yeah, there was a dream, really. So you get a call to get this job,

to get this position. And can you take us through your first day as you remember it, if you remember sort of the first day? I'm sure like now after all these years, it's probably a conglomerate of all sorts of memories. Yeah, it does. I can do the first day, but I can't separate the first from the fourth of the second. Yeah, because they begin to fuse together after 35 years. And sort of interrupt, but like just so people understand this as well, because Luigi actually gave me a really great example. He goes to me and he says, have you tried remembering what your third grade classroom looks like? And I go, yeah, sort of. And he's like, what color were the chairs?

I'm like, whoa. Yeah, yeah, those are questions people ask me. Yeah, and they get really upset. So you can't remember. Yeah. So I went, no, I can't. Well, obviously, this is all made up. I said, it's not, you know, but, but yeah, I mean.

I mean, give me a break. Yeah. Yeah, the first time I went out there, I was called out to, again, EG&G Special Project, so I went there. And like I said, that's at McCarran Airport. Now, you can go out of the back of that, and that's where they had the Janet flights, which were the 7. 27? 737. Yeah.

They were jets with the red stripe on them. Yeah. Anyway, they were only used by the government at that time to fly back. and forth to Area 51 or the other, I mean, to the different test site areas, to Tona pond back from Las Vegas. So I flew that and that landed at Area 51. That would be my area 51 proper, Groom Lake, is where we landed. And then I was taken into a room there. And that's where we went over all the security protocols and, you know, it was expected of me. And, you know, signed all kinds of security forms, so on and so forth.

You were alone during that portion? During that flight was other people? No, during that flight, Dennis Mariani, who was my supervisor, very military-looking guy, short hair, looked like he just walked out of the Marines, no sense of humor whatsoever. Yeah, it just followed me everywhere and, you know, it was kind of my shadow at the time. Yeah. But yeah. Did he have like a sense of humor at all or anything? No, no, no, he was, he was, he was, he was dead.

Nothing was funny to him at all, you know. Sounds like a fun time. Yeah, yeah. He was a creepy dude to hang out with. So, anyway, we're there, the first day was really just signing that stuff and, you know, that was about it. Yeah. I want to, I want to talk about something that happened recently that, uh, I had someone reach out. You know this.

I had someone reach out to the channel who was a pilot for one of these planes, right? Who was contracted to EG and G during those years that you were there and recalls meeting Dennis over a dozen times. Everybody knew that guy. Yep. Yeah. Sort of made, developed a relationship with him. And, you know, I'll keep him anonymous. He was actually supposed to come on here.

Oh, really? Okay. Yeah, we had arranged everything. And then he was very nice, a very nice guy, but then all of a sudden just dropped off face of the earth. Really? Block my number. Yep. And he was verified.

So it was the first time, I guess, you know, we were going to get a pilot from one of these, you know, planes to come on. But I guess, you know, he may have gotten dissuaded at some point, which I don't. don't think it's surprising to you. No, it's not. I hear stories like that from George Knapp too much, you know. Oh, we got a guy that knows you. I mean, he's seen you there and, you know, so on and so forth. And, you know, we're talking to him tomorrow and tomorrow comes and goes and the next day comes and goes.

And, you know, and then George has some story that connects to that. And we're never talking to him again. Yeah. He's gone. So. But sufficient to say that he places Dennis, he call him John, was like his. his nickname, I guess, or his middle name or something. But he places him there.

And then so you get there, you fill out these papers. Do on that first day, is that all you did? Did they bring you to the site on that day? Or did they bring you? Did you go back home? I think that was all that happened that day because that we went there late. We went there late. I think I, like I said, a lot of the days fused together.

I think we went there late, did the paperwork and I went home. Yeah. And the next time they brought me to the site. Mm-hmm. Push a realist far enough and he comes into a nominalist. Push a nominalist far enough and he turns into a realist. What does that mean? Well, it means the same thing as if you investigate matter thoroughly, you turn up with mind.

If you investigate mind thoroughly, you turn up with matter. So investigate you and you get the external world. And what happens if you investigate the external world? Well, you get you. How are things? like when we're not looking at. The act of knowing changes what you are knowing.

Knowledge of something is the same as action upon it. You may just observe things and write them down. The really good knowledge is always accumulated by an action upon the world to see what changes that action makes. So the next time you get in, you land, you go to the waiting room, I guess, or some type of compartment where they hold you until the bus comes?

Well, no, not at that time because the bus, the second time the bus was there. On the tarmac? Yeah. Okay. Or close to it. And again, I was with Dennis. Yeah. And, you know, we went into a bus, which was a, you know, Navy painted school bus with blacked out windows and just sat down, you know, right at the front seat, right where the, you know, big bar is and sat there.

And Dennis sat across from me in the entire. way we're driving down there was like a 15, 20 minute drive or something south. Dennis is just staring at me, which is just a, just as I just keep looking out the front window. And it's just a weird guy. Huh. Yeah. So maybe some type of intimidation technique. Because that's something I don't know. You weren't a stranger to over there. Like they would, you know, I've heard you say they would regularly like check you like to like almost like a fear tactic. Like, like, like, Like they would, you know, very military. Yeah, certainly after that, yeah, the, you know, security at S4 was, like, those guys train all the time and they're just waiting for something to go wrong so they can do something.

It's like, you know, a football player training all the time and never getting to play a game. Yeah. As soon as an opportunity comes up, you know, they're excited. But, yeah, then we went past where the hangar doors would be at S4 because I couldn't see those. and around the side, and we got out of the bus and went into a single door, you know, on the side of this hill. I mean, I couldn't really see anything. It was just, you know, a short area that Dennis led me into. And sort of this, like, unceremonious, sort of unromantic entrance.

So there's just, like, random door and a hill. Dirt. And, yeah, yeah, it was just nothing. It wasn't, you know, well kept or anything and went in there. and there was a, you know, small room and, you know, a guard desk and, you know, very uneventful. So while you're driving, you said you drove past the doors, the hangar doors, you didn't see them. No, not that time. I only realized I passed them because of... In the future, even when I saw them. But, yeah, we just, once we made the turn, we hadn't already passed those, but...

And we get to talk about this now because at this point, everything will be, I think, available to talk about. But there's a picture of those doors. So by the time this comes out, that'll be publicly available. But that picture... You're talking about Luigi's image? Yes. Oh, yeah. Or, I mean, there's also a guy that, you know, did that on Google Earth.

Yeah. And yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but there's the Luigi's image. Yeah, yeah. That's perfect. It's exactly the way it looked. Yeah. And, you know, not only that, I mean, he's had Ron Mavis.

who is a spectronomy expert, look at, you know, the pixels and everything else and deem this to be authentic that those are indeed anomalous shapes. They're not natural. And you can count nine doors. I mean, that is an incredible piece of vindicative sort of like just information that completely exonerates. that whole story for me. How did that feel when you saw that picture for the first time? What did that, do that stir anything in you? I mean, it was, it's always great to be vindicated by, you know,

to some degree, but to me, I already know that's the way it is. So you, it's, it's hard to impress me about that, hey, what you said is right. Yeah, I know, you know. So I can't, I. I can't, I. I can't get too excited about it, but it's nice to see less people saying you're absolutely full of shit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When I saw that, I mean, it was almost scary. I was like, whoa, that's crazy.

That's, you know, it, you know, and not to say that I don't believe your story. That's not what I'm saying. But it is something else from an onlooker outside looking in, somebody who's trying to be pragmatic and logical about things. But it's a fair thing to say. I mean, you can't believe it. You need enough information. And if I can't provide that, then it's fair. You can say, hey, I mean, what you say might be true.

It might be not. And that's it. But you can't make a distinction either way. Yeah. You know, without more information, you can't see it. This is just total nonsense. Well, I mean, to give me a break, look at the facts. And the facts start piling in.

It starts leaning my way. Yeah. And it's just nice to see that it's been going that. Yeah. It's been pretty one-sided, actually. It's been leaning to your side, I think, since the beginning, in my opinion. Okay, so you get into this door. We're in this room.

There's, is this the room where there's the scanner to get into the next section? Yeah, there is. Now, there's sometimes a guard in there and sometimes there's not. I do not remember if this time there was a guard there. I just don't. Sure. But anyway, there's a hand scanner. And Luigi's duplicated that.

I don't remember the name of it. It was the identomat. The identimat like 2000 or something. Yeah. And I guess it's a different version of it, but there's a bright light on top, and you put your hand in the scanner, and it measures the length of your bones

that are supposed to be unique. That was the first time I was putting my hand on there, and it recorded it or whatever. and then it stores your badge in it. So when you put your hand on there, your badge comes out. Oh. And it's a badge that has a magnetic stripe on it. And from that point on, you use it to open the doors.

Right, the door that you're allowed in. Yeah. Now, you can either, you know, clip it on your shirt or lab code or whatever and keep taking it off. or as, you know, later on I found out that Barry had a bunch of giant O-rings you can clip it onto, and then, you know, you can stretch it and let it snap back. Right. The reason you do that is because, like I mentioned about the security guards before, they're waiting for anything to go wrong.

If it slips inside your shirt, if you stick it in your pocket by error, and it's not visible, they will throw you against the wall. and give you the third degree about, you know, you know, procedures and, you know, do that happen to you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that did. And that's why I put the rubber owing on

and clipped my badge on that. So it was always dangling around. I never needed to take it off. Yeah. It had it clipped on and it slipped behind my lab coat so it wasn't visible to the world. They were just waiting. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It was, look, these guys, had to go, if I had to go pee in the bathroom, you know, they didn't just go to the bathroom with you. They stood there and watched you pee. I mean, they had to watch everything you were doing. I mean, security was so tight. Yeah. It was so oppressive. Yeah. It actually destroyed your will to work there. Oh, understandably. Yeah. That would be a big bummer. Okay. So, like, I'm piecing this together here on an emotional level. And, psychological level. Like, first of all, you're being flown on a plane with one other, one other person. You know, you're being taken on this bus ride. This guy's staring you down. This, this military-looking dude. Blacked-out bus driving off-site, you know, going to this place. There's this weird, shady door. You're scanning your hand like it's some type of sci-fi movie. You know, you're getting a scanner out. Security everywhere. What's your emotional state like at this point. Do you remember? Yeah, I do remember. I had the feeling that not everybody

wanted me hired there. And, you know, that's, that's why I was kind of getting like the third degree. But, yeah, I tried to do what they wanted. Yeah. You know, and maintain and still be myself. So, I mean, things worked out, but it was really uncomfortable and just not, you're not going to make much progress working like that. You can't have the military in control of anything other than the military. Yeah. And, you know, it just doesn't work there. Yeah. And as we'll come to find out that, you know, the military is pretty much in control of all of that and still is to, you know, I think to a certain extent. So you get your badge. Do you, do you immediately meet Barry? Do they take you to meet your partner. How long into the process do you think, was it the first week or?

Oh, yeah. It was the first couple days. First couple days. Yeah. You get introduced to your lab partner. Yeah, the first time I went in to the nurse, which is if you walk in the, you know, right off. If you want to call that the security room, whatever, there's a hallway off to the right that goes, you know, to the nurse. And they just do a general checkup. And then they do an allergen test on your arm. And, you know, as she explains to you, as the only female there, that you're going to be working with a lot of exotic materials that we know nothing about, and we want to know if you're going to have any allergic reaction to them.

So they do a grid on my arm and just poked me with a bunch of different materials. And then I think I had to go back that day after that. and wait like two days for that before I went back looking for it. And nothing swelled up or. Thank goodness. Yeah, right. Because what's the cure for that? Yeah.

Who knows? But I went back and then saw her again. And then I think there's this just general, I don't remember what the hell she said it was. But something for your immune system or something like that. I drank like a pine color. It reminded me a pine saw. It was that color, a deep brownish yellow color. Yeah.

Opaic? No, no, you could see. This is translucent. Okay. And then I was free to go. And that day, whatever day that was, that's when a dentist took me to meet Barry, who was going to be my lab partner. And, you know, the way it, as I explained you, the way it worked was we all worked on the

buddy system. They called it. Everybody has a lab partner. You can exchange information ideas with that one person, and that's it. There's no talking to anybody else in any groups and thinking that. And when I went in to meet Barry, saw the lab that we're going to be working in, he was like super happy to see me. Like he had been alone for a while. So, you know, I mean, he showed me around. and there's kind of a whole story there. But yeah, that was the day that I first met him. And then, you know, after I was showing a bunch of things, we went back and, you know, it was the end of that day.

The days were kind of short. As soon as it started getting fairly dark, I would wind up going home. Do you know why that is or it was just, that was just the schedule? I think that was, it was just because the plane was leaving at that time. Right. And I wasn't set up to start staying there.

I knew Barry stayed there. He lived there. Not live there, but I mean... Stayed for a few days. Yeah, I think it was either you stayed there for a week and had two weeks off or you stayed there for two weeks and had one week off. Yeah. Something like that.

Type of rotation. Yeah. So, yeah, I wasn't at that level yet. I was just being introduced to think. That must have been kind of exhausting. Yeah, it was because it wasn't a normal work schedule. Yeah. The way it would work was they would call me at random times.

I mean, it could even be on a Saturday. I'm out mowing the lawn or doing something, and I come in, and they'd say somebody would call from McCarran Airport or EG&G Special Project, and they'd say the name, you know, this is Julie from EG&J Special Projects. It is now 410. We expect you to be on the tarmac at 615. And, you know, okay, thank you, click.

And so, all right, I, guess I'll put some clothes on and you get there and drive there and, you know, park my car and at 615 and be standing on the tarmac and, you know, get on the plane and that's, that's it. So it was, is really weird like that and unpredictable. Yeah. And again, I don't know why that was. Maybe that was some kind of test in some way to see if I'd be flexible or what. Seems like an environment where, you know, I've, I spoke to a guy, a friend of mine, Hakeem Isler, he was, he worked at Saya.

for a little bit in the military. And it was something that they had to go through was like stress inoculation. They would constantly like be be up in an hour. Oh, never mind. And like this, they'd be, you know, sort of dragged along emotionally just to sort of get them used to being under high stress environments. Like that was something that they would. Maybe that was it.

Yeah. They were trying to like prep you for for certain things. And so, all right. Now let's get back to Project Gravitor because we're coming into this place. Now, Luigi and his team did such an amazing job creating that bus ride, seeing the hangers from the bus, entering that door, getting your hand scanner, and then eventually going into the infirmary. How accurate is that infirmary? It's a hundred percent. Really?

The whole thing's 100%. Like, even I couldn't see the bus on the outside. You know, you're seeing what I couldn't see. But that would have been what my eyes saw. Yeah. Because the hangers looked just like that. The infirmary was just like that. I mean, they spent three years working on this,

trying to get it exactly perfect. And to my surprise, they did. So it's right on. Was there anything that, because I know that like a few times, like especially when we, when eventually we'll get into the craft and we'll get into, you mentioned before the tripod, light. But these are kind of information that sort of started arising now that the environment had the ability to jog your memory. Because that's a real thing. Like if you showed me a picture

of my classroom in grade three, I guarantee you I'd start recalling things that I'd forgotten. Yeah, yeah. That happened with Luigi, too. He'd start building the rooms and say, look in here. And, you know, I said, oh, wait, wait, wait, no, no. The desk was there. Oh, yeah, wait, there was a whiteboard there. Yeah, I mean, it did bring back memories, but, you know, how could it not when you start seeing it and it becomes, you know, close to reality? There's a couple things you always forget until you see it. Sure. And yeah, that really filled in some blanks, which was pretty cool. Yeah, that must have been pretty cool. I mean, like in any environment, like if you were to go back in grade three, I'd still like to see my classroom, be like, oh, wow, this is kind of gnarly that

I get to be here, you know, so in any scenario, but in this specific one, I think, a little bit cooler. arguably. So, okay, you go to the infirmary, you get these tests, then you meet Barry. Barry's excited to see you. Is this where Barry breaks the news that the previous person who'd worked there had passed? Yeah. Yeah. Once I get introduced to Barry and, you know, everything's kind of copacetic. Yeah. So Dennis leaves. Okay. You know, and then Barry, Barry now is excited to show me around the lab and he says, I am going to show you stuff. That's so awesome. You know, I'm excited.

This is great. And, well, wait, I left out a gigantic part here. Before I met Barry, we went to the briefing room where I read, yeah, all kinds of briefing. Yeah. Okay, let's pause here for a second. We left out on major part, yeah. Arguably one of my favorite parts.

So, yeah. Okay. Yeah, after the nurse stuff was. done, the next, boy, it's hard to remember what came before, the nurse of the briefings. I think the nurse came first, but anyway, I think it was second, the briefings. I go into a room with Dennis. There is literally a stack of blue folders there, and he said, here's a synopsis of the projects going on.

We need to get you caught up or at least familiarize with them until, you know, then we can bring you in. And so I started reading through those. And that's where I learned. There were several projects going on, Project Galileo, Project Sidekick, Project Looking Glass. Galileo was the project I was involved in that dealt with the power and propulsion system of the craft. And this is where they talked about reverse engineering, extraterrestrial equipment.

Yeah, that's kind of what I thought. But then I also thought, are they just pulling my leg? And this is nonsense. And this is just some kind of test of some kind. So I just continued reading through it. Project sidekick dealt with the weapon potential of the craft. And Project Looking Glass dealt with the fact that it produced its own gravitational field if the flow of time can be distorted.

And again, I'm not talking about going back in time. Just time dilation. Yeah, can you change time by a few milliseconds? Are you able to affect time at all? And, you know, so there was a lot to go through there, which I did. Those, I mean, those three projects, you know, the one thing that stands out to anyone who looks into that is that it's the three potentialities or the three directions you can take gravity in. Space with the craft. propulsion, time with time dilation, and then weaponization is like how to manipulate gravity,

how do we maximize the manipulation of gravity, right? Weapons, time, space. Control that. That's like the Holy Trinity. Like you have that, you rule the world, right? Yeah, yeah. Look, if you can produce gravity, if you can control gravity, you have a machine that makes gravity, and you can control its intensity, you already rule the world.

Yeah. You know, you don't realize the potential that has because, you know, as I've said before, all the stuff you've seen in science fiction movies now becomes a reality. Yeah. Now you've got force fields. Now you've got time travel. Now you've got warp drive. Everything hinges on that. And if they have a machine that is producing its own gravitational field, they really want to know how to make more of those.

Yeah. That would be high priority. It also, I often think of like, it's a good reason to keep it secret. Yeah, yeah. You know, get that in the wrong hands. You got some type of time dilating weapon or whatever that is, right? No, you, yeah. The other side gets that, you lose.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Out of those three projects, which one do you find most fascinating? I mean, I naturally like propulsion, but I have this real destructive streak in me and I kind of like sidekick. But on the other hand, I mean, all three are interesting, but how could you not be interested in interfering with the flow of time? Because that's, yeah, that's the most powerful thing of all.

It's even the most powerful weapon of all, you know, is time. But all three of them are incredibly interesting. Have you ever heard of the chronovisor? No. There's a, I have a note here. There's a guy, it's an Italian guy. He was a monk, actually, I think I have it here, a Benedictine monk. Father Pellegrino Ernetti in 1950 said to have worked.

He said he worked alongside Dr. Fermi, Verna von Braun, Brown on a project of this machine that was able to peer back in time. So a machine that they could look through and take pictures of past events and that the Vatican and ended up confiscating it. It's this, you know, deep conspiracy. Is this real? Is it not real? I don't know.

But I just thought it was interesting that, you know, in the 1950s, this actually came, he first talked about this in the 70s, I think 1970. And so that came to light with the chronovisor, which that was really interesting. And so when you first mentioned Project Looking Glass, I thought, well, that's kind of interesting. Huh. I never heard about that. Yeah. But either way, I see how all three of those things could.

be incredibly paradigm shifting for any civilization. Yeah, and they're, you know, all fascinating to work on. Did that occur to you then that like what you were dealing with was beyond anything else? Did that occur to you in that moment, like when you were reading those documents that, holy shit, this is a big deal. Yeah. If this was true. Yep.

Yeah. Yeah, it did. It did. 50% there. Right. You know, I have no idea what these guys are going after here. And so I just read through the stuff. And but I knew Project Galileo is what, you know, I was going to be assigned to.

So yeah, I'm all for it. There was a whole other section of the documents, which we won't go deep on because I know how you feel about that section as well. But I have to ask still like on maybe just a surface level, you know, there was some hypnosis. Nautic regression stuff that he did in the past to try and, like, you know, bring some of this memory stuff back on what those documents read. But generally speaking, there were mentions that this, the owners of the craft were from Zeta reticulai. That was like the... Yeah, yeah. That was what the documents stated.

Yeah, there were, I mean, there was, I mean, a document that dealt with the bio, they called them biological entities that were on the craft. Yeah. And I can't remember the way they worded it. But anyway, they had a couple drawings of them in there. And I think there was one photograph and the rest were drawings and it just showed it was kind of the biology of their body where their chest was cut open and there was one single organ inside their body. Whoa. Kind of like if all, you coat open our bodies and all our organs had grown together. It was one general purpose thing in there. Whoa. And that's just the way they were inside. It also mentioned the, some information was gleaned from the craft that made them think it became, it came from Zeta Articulate, a different star system, only visible in the southern hemisphere, like 30 some odd light years away.

How they got that information. I'll never know. Again, it was just in there. Whether or not there were aliens that actually looked like that, I'll never know. Sure. It was just pictures in there. Yeah. So I always had to make a distinction between the stuff I actually touched and knew, worked that way, and what they claimed.

There's also one of the things Barry told me when we got working together. He said they put a bunch of crap in there. That way, if information is spread around. Yeah. And the garbage they give different people is different. So if people start spouting stories that you read, they know exactly who to trace it back to. Yeah. So, yeah, so I was expecting nonsense in there.

So passage material. Yeah, I didn't give everything, you know, 100% credibility right off the top. I think as someone who's, you know, pretty left brain, somebody who's like logically focused and like, hey, this is how I think I would also react the same way initially. Yeah. to. And like, you know, and just because people say, hey, there's government documents that say that. Yeah, there's lots of government documents. They say nonsense. It's intended that way. Yeah. You know, so don't, you know, don't be deceived just because it's, you know, the Pentagon printed it out or some other government agency that it's 100% true. Yeah. Don't hang your hat on it, but also shelve it. Right. It could be. Yeah. Because that, that to me, you know, um, pride of the podcast we were talking a little bit and you'd mention, you know, like Betty and Barney Hill was the only other time that you heard that and that was like back, you know, in the 50s and we're, or 50s or 60s. Yeah. Now I don't follow UFO lore or stories or no UFO researchers,

but, you know, I have heard a few stories. But what was interesting is, you know, the Betty and Barney Hill story, you know, back in the early 60s, you know, a mixed race couple claiming to be abducted you know, by some flying saucer. And apparently Betty, you know, was able to talk to the aliens. And before they let her go, she said, where did you come from? And they show her map. And, you know, she remembers the map. And, you know, during an interview, draws it out.

And they went, yeah, well, that's Zeta reticul. And the fact that it said Zeta reticulay in my paperwork, well, that's a connection there. And so I pay attention to that. So maybe that story is true. Yeah. So, again, I don't know for sure, but I do know for sure how the propulsion system works. Yeah, that's something you can hang your hat on. What I find really fascinating is that, like, everything that you read about Project Galileo ended up being true.

Right. That's an another notch you got to move forward. Everything I read about my project, Project Galileo, was, in fact, accurate. So just maybe everything else was too. Yeah. But also, yeah, it could just be passage material. Maybe not. Yeah.

Yeah. So, I mean, it's, you got to be careful there. Yeah. I mean, you, uh, we'll move, we'll move past this in a sec. I just want to, I just kind of want to talk a little bit about some of the memories that came back from that. Um, you know, there were also sort of this. there was like this general impression that there was some genetic modifications that they were doing to the human race, that they were suppressing consciousness to a certain extent in these documents as far as you, as far as you can remember. Is there any, did that ever disturb you going forward like after that or did you really just like kind of categorize that as this could be BS?

Yeah, that really set off the BS alarm. Okay. I said, you know, there's, you know, there's, they claim there is, you know, many corrections to the genetic evolution of, you know, humans and just all kinds of other, you know, wild claims that had, you know, no proof to back them up whatsoever. And I really didn't put much credence in it at all, so I just brushed it off. Okay. So now you read these documents, you're getting a little more prepped. They're, you know, they're surrounding you with all these, these guards, these people, they're giving you documents to read that's strange files. Yeah, but I still don't know what I'm really working on.

I'm still expecting a very advanced jet fighter at this point, you know, so I don't, I think they're just testing me with all this. What if we gave you information about flying saucers, would you tell anybody about, you know, no, I wouldn't. I'm staying with the program. And yeah, I'm expecting me brought in there and seeing, you know, the F-32 or something like that. And, you know, that's when they brought me into Barry. So you meet Barry. He gives you a tour prior to seeing the craft, obviously.

You get all the propulsion stuff now. You get all the... Yeah, he has the part of the propulsion system laid out on all that and really can't wait to show me. And he says, you're going to love it. love this. And there's the small reactor, there's the gravity amplifier and the emitter on another table, and the system is running. And, you know, he said, try to put your hands on the sphere there, which I did. And I, when I got close to it, I couldn't. It pushed off just like the like poles of a magnet, if you ever played with two big magnets. But with my hands, I went, oh, my God. what is this it's a it's a real force field and he said no just try with all your might and i i did and you can't move an inch the the first maybe two or three inches is somewhat elastic but after that

you're you're not getting anywhere and the thing he shut it off and the reactor is kind of a hemisphere on a plate and he moved it and he said it's not connected to the bench and turned it on again. And he said, push on it and pushing on it. So, I mean, what he was showing me was the force was not being transferred to that. Or even if you couldn't touch it, you would think it would slide away. But it wasn't. So the force is just going away.

It's not being transferred to the device that's repelling it. And this stuff was amazing. me. And then he showed me what this is actually doing is powering this emitter here. And then he showed me how that worked. And then he also mentioned, and you'll notice, nothing's connected together. I had, you know, where are we? This is like the twilight zone. So it was, this was really, really blowing me away. And like, is this what powers, you know, the aircraft? And he said, what did they explain to you? I said, nothing. They just, you know, I just read these briefings. And so Barry went over everything with me. And this is when I really realized, okay, we're, we are reverse engineering

something that some other entities made. And, you know, this is where it's where it's, became real for me. When Barry went over everything that you had gone through, how long was that little brief that that Barry gave you? Was that like a 30-minute spiel or was that like? No, it was like a couple hours. A couple hours. Yeah, because every time, you know, Barry would go, yeah, and there's this. I went, stop, you know, and what do you mean there's this? And, you know, we'd have to explain every last, you know, a bit of what he's learned from that point. I said, okay, now let's go to here. How come this, how did you turn this off? And, you know, it, uh, so it took a long time of me constantly stopping it. Yeah, in shock, I bet, just constantly.

Yeah, but it was great because I really felt like I was privy to information that only a few people had and like, ah, this, we could control the world with this stuff. But, you know, we had no idea how it works. So that was, that was kind of our task. Wow. That must have been so exciting for Barry, honestly, as well. Yeah, yeah, he was, you know, I'm thinking if you're working alone, possibly just lost his partner, don't know how long ago. Yeah. You know, and then someone new comes along who's like a, like a puppy. Yeah, yeah.

It's like a guy showing off his new car. Yeah, exactly. Check this out. Yeah. And he, you know, how cool that he gets to be the one. Yeah. To tell you this stuff is real, you know, with certainty and show you. Like that's that's got to be such a cool moment for the both of you to experience.

But this, this is all, is this all lighthearted still? Is this all like excitement based and or? Initially it was that day. Yeah. And then, I mean, quickly things, it, it seems like they were in, you know, in a rush to do anything to find out anything. So we had to get down to work eventually quickly. And a lot of it was boring work. It was not exciting.

It was making small changes and, you know, analyzing different parts of the, you know, from, although there were different groups that dealt with like the materials, the metallurgy of the craft and what everything was made of. And, you know, we had more of the, dealt with more of the interaction of the components and how they actually propelled the craft. And it was, I think it was another day or two days before I actually got to see the craft because we had to know if the placement had anything to do with it. And really, they weren't even anxious to let us look at the craft. But, you know, we kind of campaigned for that on, look, it might be, nothing works. There's no wires anywhere. It might be that placement is critical on this stuff. We have to see how it's laid out in the craft and it was kind of like an,

okay, you can go in and see it. I see. So that's when we were, you know, actually allowed to see it. And that's when the world opened up to me. It's like, Jesus. Yeah. Right. So. Now, walking into that space for the first time, was Barry was with you? Yeah, right behind me. I walked in first. Was he like poking you in the ribs and being like, wait till you see this? No. No, no. No, no. Just barring. Yeah. He was probably just looking at my reaction. Yeah.

Just watching you light up. Yeah. So you see this craft where you prompted prior to entering the room with anything? Do you remember if they were like, hey, you know, keep your head down? No. No, nothing just walked in. No. When I, the first time, well, I had actually seen the craft.

That's actually the second time I saw the game. Yeah. The first time I saw the craft, I came in through, uh, through a hangar door. And this is where the days kind of get mixed up. I think it was the third day I was there. I came in through, instead of going around the side of the building, the bus stopped at the first hangar door that was open.

So that's when I went out that way. I see, yeah. And Dennis led me in, and that's the first time I saw the craft. and I slid my hand along the craft as we were walking in and that's the first time I was reprimanded by a guard keep your hands down, your eyes forward, and go through the door. So that's the first time I saw the craft when I first came in with Barry from that day

with the first time I was allowed in the craft. And that was the first time you were aware that the craft was extraterrestrial because prior to that, you just got it. Yeah, prior to that. Yeah, when I came in and walked in that way, they had, where the hatch part was, they had an American flag stuck on there, reversed for whatever reason. And so I thought that's, that's a fighter, you know. Yeah, that's what people are seeing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I have these days screwed up because it gets, it gets confused in my mind. But anyway, so I came in there and still in my mind that

was, you know, an American-built thing. Yeah. But it was, again, when I was in with Barry and, you know, we saw the gravitational propulsion system, it working, how it repelled, and talking to him, that's when I realized, you know, this is, you know, a machine from another entity. And when we came in and walked in the hangar that day, I looked at this completely in a different light. And we walked up the stairs they made for it. And clearly it wasn't made for a human to get in because you had to crawl in and you couldn't really even stand up. until you were almost in the center. But, you know, we looked around and saw, he showed me where the reactor is and how you can look down into where the emitters are and the third level and the craft.

And it was, but that was all very amazing to say the least. Was there a feeling of an alteration of environment when you entered the craft as opposed to when you were outside it? Did you feel like there was a static charge or like it was colder or it had a smell to it? Was there anything? No, it was just an ominous feeling. Yeah, because it's all, you know, everything's the same color. Everything has the same radius of curvature to it. No, the only sharp edges and the whole thing are the reactor plate that it sits on.

But everything else has a curve to it. everything is the same material and the same color. So it feels, you know, otherworldly, you know, when you're in there because, you know, human environments are full of different colors, different textures, you know, different angles. But it's not there. It's just, it's weird. And just the way. It's uncanny valley type, like this isn't.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a really, and it's, it's just automatically uncomfortable. It's just we're so used to something else. It's like, you know, people say, well, it must have been so cool. No, it was not cool at all.

It's like I actually wanted to go back out. It was cool to look at it. But it's a really creepy feeling in there. It's really ominous. Almost like you're not supposed to be there. Yeah. Yeah. That's the actual feeling, I think I said.

I just felt like I shouldn't be in here. That's how I felt when I first put on the goggles. Oh, really? That's exactly what I said is like I don't, I feel like I shouldn't be here. Yeah, that's weird that that translates. Yeah. You know, into that. To me, that tells me that Luigi got it exactly right.

Yeah, you worked with Luigi for three years building S4, building, you know, the bus, the, you know, the cafeteria, all these, like, different, like, the hallway, all this. But the craft is like, this is the magnum opus. This is, like, the thing that you had to rebuild and you had to make perfect. Now, if I look behind me here, there's like a little model that you had made, the maker's model. model of like the UFO, which was 148 scale, you know, back in the day. But this was a totally different. Oh, yeah. You went deep on this with Luigi. Yeah, this is. How close is the craft to your memory of the craft when you see it through the eyes of S4, the Bob Lazar story, and Project Ravitor? No, that's, I have to say, I mean, even being conservative, it's 100%. I mean, we went through it again and again. Now, I mean, I may not. be recollecting it at 100%.

But from what I remember, that is 100%. That's exactly the way it looked. I mean, there's some question, was there another bump onto the black insulating ring? Yeah, sure. I don't remember, but this is what was in my mind. So that's, like I said, Luigi's images are like they were downloaded from my brain.

They're exact. seeing this thing in Project Gravitor as well in the documentary when the door's open and it starts hovering and it goes outside. Now, I didn't see that. Right. But you've seen the craft elevate. Yeah, I mean, the one time. The one time we were allowed.

Barry and I were working in the lab and then Dennis came in and he said, hey there's a test flight going on why don't you guys come out and there was one of the doors in the lab led right to the big hanger so we could open that and we were there um so it was already out on the lake bed um so i don't know if they hovered it out there sure it out or what what the deal was but there was clearly somebody and this is one of the things that still confuses me to this day it has a gravity field around it and you know that's going to bed and you know that's going to and everything from light to electromagnetic waves and all that. Yet there's a guy on a desk with a conventional HF radio or VHF radio talking to someone inside the craft.

Now, that should be impossible. It just, it shouldn't work at all. True. But, yeah, it did. So I had, I had a lot of questions about how that was even working. And that caught my eye. And anyway, the craft was out there. And that some time went by, and then the craft began to lift silently off the ground.

There was a little bluish, purplish glow on the bottom, which was just kind of a corona discharge because the graph produced high voltage on its skin, which, by the way, if you shorted it out, that didn't do anything different. So it's just like anything you changed in the craft, it didn't care about. Wow. So once it lifted,

it just stayed there for a while, and Dennis told me, go out and go under the craft. Dennis told you that. Yeah, yeah. And Barry stayed there and I said, oh, okay, so I walked out there, you know, kind of looking up the craft.

And as I, walked out, I looked back toward Dennis like, am I doing the right thing? And, you know, he pointed up to look at the craft. So I did. And as I walked out under the craft, I couldn't see the craft. As I got closer to it, the craft just turned into sky. What I was seeing was the light bending around the craft, which was just incredibly awesome. So I took a step back, and I could see the edge of the craft, and I went back under it. But also the other thing that hit me at the time was it's not transferring its weight to the ground. You know, if you have something and you're producing a force and pushing on it,

it's just not on a pedestal where it's taking the weight of the craft and transferring it to the ground. The weight is just gone. So I'm under it. I'm not getting crushed by it. I can walk freely, and I can't see, the craft. No wind, nothing. No, no, there's nothing at all. No sound. And I, I step back and then I can

see the edge of the craft come back into view and walk back. And I mean, that's amazing. Yeah. That's an imprint in my brain that'll live forever. It's, yeah, so the mass is being canceled out there. It's not being transferred down. It's not standing on a pedestal of anti-gravity. It's just going away. Yeah, that is, that is so weird to think about because it's so unnatural and unlike anything you would. Yeah, but imagine if you could control that, right? You could do, I mean, what you could do. It's like, I'm so jealous of their technology, so. Yeah. Okay. So, in the hangar we see this craft. Now, in Gravitor, they've recreated the craft.

They've recreated the flight characteristics of it. They've recreated in, you know, in this, in Blender and all these, these other softwares and whatnot. You're getting to relive this. Is there, is there a point? And I just want to, I kind of want to make this point for the audience because I want them to eventually experience this too. and I want them to support the project and go, you know, check it out because it will, I think, you know, change a lot of people's perception. One way or another, if you're, if you're, you know, if you don't believe the story, if you believe your, whatever it is, it'll change your perception of it because it'll put you in that space. Did you feel at any point like, man, people are going to understand now what I saw?

like when you were in this, when you're watching this with your own eyes. Do you feel like, oh, this will help people understand what I saw? When I saw Luigi's graphics. Yeah, I did. Yeah, to some extent. Does that make you feel, does that? Yeah, because a lot of people had just wrong ideas of it. I mean, even when Luigi released the first image of it in the hangar,

you had, you know, a bunch of people come out. Oh, my God. that's i always thought i had some kind of landing gear and you know and people had all these other preconceived notions it was going on some guy said clearly it's the whole thing's alive because from what you said it's impossible to see the american flag that's right on that and you know luigi did everything exactly to scale and put you know the camera exactly and if you walk by you can see there was the flag exactly where I said, you know, so I thought, you know, to some extent, it's certainly going to, you know, prove, you know, some of the things I said. But, you know, you always have the people that are just really don't care. Yeah. It doesn't matter. This is all nonsense. Sure. Yeah. But I'm, I'm fine with that. That's okay. Okay. So this is the second time you see the craft, the first time you're allowed entering it. Now, just to back up, the first time you see the craft, was when you were walking by through the hand. and touching it. Was this also the time you saw the officer talking to, quote, unquote, the kid or the, the, what they called the kids or this, this small, whatever it was, whether it's a doll or whether it's a, was that at that point or was that later?

I think it was at that point. Yeah. When you were walking through and you kind of like glanced. And then we went straight out. There's a door straight in the back and the hanger to the right side. Yeah. And then the door across from that. You know, these doors have like a, I don't know, 12-inch wire piece of glass in them. Right. And as I turned the corner, I looked in there. And there were just some guys in lab coats looking down at one of the seats. And I think they had a mannequin or something in there so they could just see, well, how big would the creature be if I sat in the chair? And they were measuring things and looking at it.

And I had mentioned that before. and people said, oh, well, you saw an alien. And aliens are working with them. I said, no, no, no, no. I think these guys are trying to figure out how big something would be if that was a chair. So, yeah, I don't believe there was any aliens around there. Yeah, it didn't have like a large head and like a blue jumpsuit or anything. Did it?

No, no, no, no, no. I think they were, you know. Yeah, that makes a lot more sense. What's interesting, too, is that, you know, the chairs have some sort of, significance because you'd mentioned while you were in there, the one thing they didn't allow you to play with was the chairs. Yeah, there wasn't. Yeah, and there's no fooling around with the chairs. Look, if they were just chairs, and I say the only reason I think Barry and I call them chairs is because they looked like chairs. But again, I have no information about those. They may not have anything to do with being chairs.

And when you really look at it, look, there's three of them, you know, in a triad formation. One of them right in front of it is the wave guide. Why would you ever put a chair? I mean, you're going to sit there and there's going to be a pipe in front of your face. It's like the worst seat in the saucer. And then there's two other chairs, you know, on either side of that. they do all face to one archway and when we were in there

Barry and I looking at the reactor on the ground there was another group of two guys in there that had light that was shining on the superstructure as archways all around it and whatever they were doing caught my attention because one of those archways became transparent when they were playing around with it. So these seats were aimed towards that.

So, you know, was that a window? Could all the archways do that? Were those really seats? Or is it just a coincidence that they energized that? And, you know. Right. Was that also the archway that had the writing? Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. After it stayed clear for a bit, it turned blue. and then there was writing that looked, I don't know how to describe it, but if you look at Korean and if you make it italic, it looks something like that. Can I pull up a picture of some writing?

And maybe you can tell me if that looks like it. Okay, hold on. Because I just want to pull up some writing of another case that. So there's that. No. No. No. Different from this.

Yeah, totally different from that. Okay. And then I have another, I'm taking this time because I think a lot of people would appreciate like some either confirmation or whatever. You can stop speculating about their own alien writing. This is from another sort of leak. I bet I could find it. No. No.

Not that either. Because this one does look a little more. like Asian writing a little bit more like kanji or not quite it no no because there is the writing that you guys did on on the project

Ravitor yeah it's much closer to that huh it's not now I'm not saying it's Korean it's it's not but there's lots of circles and lines and and the shapes were doing this kind of right also which is yeah that's so strange it's weird in itself yeah yeah

Very alien. Very on par alien. But remember, they were playing with that system. So maybe that wasn't the way it was supposed to be. And at that point, you had, you were drawn to it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And then immediately, again, you know, pay attention to what you're doing here. That's not, you know, that's not where you should be focusing on. Was Barry like, hey, don't. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we were constantly concerned about getting in trouble. It ruined everything. Because, you know, maybe that had something to do with the power and propulsion system. We need to talk to these guys.

There needs to be free discussion for science to move forward. But compartmentalizing everything to keep everything completely secret, you're tying yourself up. Do you think the chairs, if they are chairs, which I think they are, by the way, because low ceiling, I mean, they're probably little guys sitting in there or little genderless aliens, whatever they are. do you think that those chairs could have something to do with the sort of steering capability of the craft? Maybe. Like some type of like if you were sat there, you had some type of like connection. They were all equidistant from the reactor at that point. And, you know, the fact they were all pointing in one direction.

my guess is from the way the craft operated and traveled, if you're going to sit there, it would only be for a short time. It's not like you're going to sit there for an hour to go anywhere. It's just going to be minutes because of the rate of travel. So, you know, the seats, obviously they're not padded or anything. It's just a cut out, a smooth cut out that you sit in. So it's just like you're going to sit in, we're there and, you know, get up again. but maybe that had something,

the placement had something to do with controlling the craft. Yeah, because there are, I mean, you look back at like other, other crashes or alleged crashes that happen, whether it's Roswell or Aztec or these type of things. And Aztec, actually, they had, there was some symbols in that craft.

Okay. And I might pull those up and show you those, because those might actually, now that I think about it. But it might also have something to do with, um, you know, if they were, you know, living beings and three of them, maybe the reactor only puts out a field so big to protect them from inertia.

Oh, from getting a kind of a bubble, yeah. So they're immune to all the effects of the way the crafts operate, and they just need to sit there to be protected. Right. So it could just be that, just a place, you know, just to sit for all the action to take place. and then you can get up and, you know, we're there. Everybody does embark. But that's interesting, though.

So it's like they knew how to fly these things, obviously, to maybe a limited capacity. But they did know how to, like the craft that was in the air that you saw was the same craft that you were in. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, you know, it wasn't like they needed you to figure out how everything sort of worked together. They had that figured out. Yeah, and look, we keep trying to put a pilot in there. Maybe there isn't, I mean, right, yeah.

Look, our cars and, you know, just recently developed flying cars and stuff are autonomous. That's right. Maybe that is. It has nothing to do with it. They sit in there and just run the program. We're home or we're to Earth or wherever you're going. Nobody needs to pilot anything. Maybe the fact that there were pilots in there doesn't necessarily rule out.

the autonomous theory as well. Yeah. They might be part of the craft. Yeah, that's true. Just a biological component. Okay. So, I mean, you got to stand in the craft. You got to, you know, what's interesting, too, is that, you know, you'd mentioned the tripod lights before.

And how, you know, when you were creating the craft with Luigi for the documentary, you got in there, realized, oh, there's no light. And Luigi's like, there's no light in there. How do we see? And you're like, right, they had a tripod light. You went back. You found the exact model that they used and put that. Shined it, turns out, doesn't really light up the craft much. But one thing that struck me from seeing that, and maybe this also, maybe you also felt this,

but you had these stairs, right, that they rolled in to like sort of crawl into the craft. But then there's this orange extension. extension cable. Yeah, I mean, there were Black and Decker extension cords everywhere, which kind of connected this thing to Earth, you know, made it more real. Yeah, you just, nothing's going to work without an extension cord. Yeah. But, yeah, just to power the lights inside and other tools and things.

That was one moment for me seeing this that really, yeah, really cemented this how far we are from what we're dealing with here is that we have this orange cable just dangling outside of this pristine, you know, beautiful, perfect craft. Yeah. This Ferrari of the universe, right? Yeah, we should. We're not even worthy to dismantle it. Yeah.

And we have this strange cable being plugged into a wall and they're like, don't trip on that cable. Yeah. Okay. So you get to go in there. You get to play around. with things. Now, you see the panel go transparent. I'd mentioned to you before the podcast as well. It's really really interesting because in the Aztec case, again, I bring back the Aztec case,

there was a witness at Wright Patterson who had also seen the craft go transparent due to an injection of like high voltage. So again, this idea of like high voltage energy, a lot of weird things start happening and he could see through the craft but it was like blurry yeah yeah i mean that kind of all fits because first of all we know there's high voltage on the craft because it lives off the ground you can see it and we can measure it so you know there's a high voltage potential excuse me on there and um yeah the craft wasn't perfectly clear it was kind of looking like through a shower door to some degree uh not totally like refraction no just uh you know that milky white maybe sandblasted look or something like that.

Just not translucent, not transparent. Right. Almost camouflage. Yeah. But I mean, you could see people out there. You just couldn't really identify them, you know, so. Yeah. Really interesting.

It's interesting because it's, you know, as someone who's looking into this stuff, I'm seeing them piecing together like all these different things. And now I'm like, wait a second. Yeah, well, you have knowledge of a lot more, you know, other UFO information. I don't really follow any UFO stories or lore or researchers. So, yeah, you could probably plug more things together than I could for sure. Okay. So craft out of the way.

We're back in the lab. We're doing some tests. Now, there's something that I did want to touch on. There was two instances with some of the tests that you did that really, really stood out to me and I'm sure stood out to you to a greater degree. one involved time dilation, it would seem, with a candle. Yeah, yeah. And the other was what only I can describe as like a miniature black hole. Okay, this is when Barry, we were working in the lab and when he has the entire system connected together.

So the gravity amplifier is, the gravity emitter is emitting. Yeah. So it's producing it's a gravitational wave. And he can rotate the emitter and the effect changes the output. So one thing he showed me was he took a candle and lit it and put it in the focal point of the emitter. And he turned it. You know, and normally the flame is, you know, moving to some degree and because of convection and, you know, it went out from the heat.

And the flame stopped. And he said it's that flame is frozen in time. And I said, it can't be because I can see it. If it was frozen at time, there wouldn't be photons emitting from it. He said, no, it's frozen in time. Look at it. You know, and I went up, inspected it. I couldn't get my hands in there because he said,

not to for whatever reason, but clearly the candle was frozen. And he moved or rotated the emitter and it became a candle again. And he said, watch what happens when we go way past that. And he turned it at, now I can see if the emitter is sitting there and you can see across the table, you can see the other wall and our desks and that sort of thing. So he rotates the emitter further than he did before and a little black dot, a little ball forms there. How big about? About like that.

Like a baseball. Yeah, or maybe a tennis ball, something like that, maybe even a little smaller. And he said, that's the light bending away from there. So I got right up to it as close as I could safely come to it. And it was a completely dark spot there. It was like a little black hole. But it wasn't affecting anything else in there. I mean, if it was a black hole,

there would be books flying and things getting sucked in here. But it was just sitting there quietly, only bending light. And how could you, how can you do that, even if you had a machine that made gravity? How can you selectively pick photons to distort or move or attract to? and nothing else.

So, I mean, everything was amazing about this. You had a laser test, too, that you did with this, didn't you? I did that at home. Oh. Yeah, that's a different story. Yeah, that I did at home. I see. But, yeah, that's, yeah, I, I, I'm kind of so upset on myself to some degree that things

didn't work out and I didn't allow them to do that because I have such a desire to know more about what what we had there. And to this day, I wonder what, you know, it's been 35 years, what, what they came up with. Maybe they know everything about it. Maybe they haven't learned one thing. I mean, I'd like to know, you know, I like to say, I'm sorry, can I get back in the project. Yeah. Now, I hear that. Do you think Barry's still working there? 35 years, no. Probably not.

Probably retired. Yeah, yeah, it'd be an old guy. Yeah. Maybe he's watching this. That'd be great. That'd be great. Anything you want to say to Barry? Give us a call.

Yeah, right. Fair enough. Yeah, that's, I mean, those experiments are wild, seeing a flame stop. It must be so jarring. Because, like, I mean, I work, I can show you some illusions after this. Yeah. that are like kinetic and that are, and they will trip your senses. They will absolutely play with your perspective.

Okay. And create anomalous visual, you know, perception of events that should be completely impossible. They'll change even how things move in time. They will, you know, there's certain illusions I have. But those are illusions made, and I know how they work. Yeah. So, you know, when you have something that, you know, you try to. look at and you just can't figure it out and your brain glitches out with like how it works.

And a lot of people experience that with magic tricks when they're trying to explain it and they just can't. And then eventually they have to give up and they have to just unwillingly suspend their disbelief because, you know, they're right. They just can't. Yeah, they just can't figure it out. It was, I mean, that must have felt like a bit of a magic trick to you in the sense that not only did it fool you, but you probably also got disenchanted from it to a certain extent. Well, yeah, certainly those that I can't interact with, you can just see those two tests. Yeah. But things like feeling the field on the reactor where you can interact with it and you can shut it, you know, turn it on and shut it off.

And like, that's, it's not disenchanting. That's frustrating because I can touch it and I can see it's working. And I want to know how to make this work, you know. And again, walking under the craft, I saw this thing in the hangar and I'm looking above it and I, can't see it and I take a step back and it's there, I must know how this works. Yeah, it's just, it, uh, is a very driving factor. I can, I can see that about you as well. As we walked in, I have the shelf filled with like knickknacks, puzzles and, you know, just whizzing gadgets. It's kind of like a sort of, you know, toy factory over there. And I have all these little trinkets. And I could see you

immediately you picked one up and I told you oh that's a puzzle yeah those it will that will kill me you had to put it away so you know I think we suffer from the same affliction when it comes to you know wanting to know how things work and just things will bug me yeah I have to figure it out and and you know that's that's the our thing about magic is that like there is a method for everything even if it looks impossible right there's a method Right. As there is for this. Yeah. What's after you got out of there, after you've worked with all that stuff, what would be your best educated guess as to how some of that works?

Like what's your, what's your best working theory? I'm sure you've thought about it long and hard. Like what's what do you gather from all of that and like this is this is kind of what I have to go to bed with at night? It's kind of hard to say. It's kind of hard to say because a lot of it's just a guess. I mean, the reactor itself appeared to be powered by a super heavy omelette, element 115. They've since synthesized that, but what we had was a stable version of it. And, you know, there are isotopes of many elements.

Some of them, they're all the same element, but some are stable. and some are unstable. This one was a stable version of Element 115. Clearly, you said there's something unique about that because that was in the reactor. And from what we can ascertain from x-raying, the reactor, the base plate, it looked like a little accelerator, like a little cyclotron.

So it looked like there's some nuclear manipulation going on there where they're bombarding the target, the element 115, sample in there and it's producing some kind of effect, producing some kind of gravitational effect. And I'm not even sure it's gravity. As time goes on, I'm increasingly convinced that there's another force of nature that gravity is only the property of mass where it just, you get enough mass together, it has gravity, little mass, just little gravity. A.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, gravity. In gravity. Actually, gravity B. Yeah. Or gravity V, right? Yeah, it's just on a, you know, large scale.

You get a whole planet. Yeah, it can pull rocks towards it and hold people on it and, you know, that thing. It's not a very strong force. But we call this anti-gravity because there's nothing else to call it, because it's just there's no other propulsion system and it lifts up and it ignoring gravity. So we call it an anti-gravity. But I think it's. I think there's another force

that we haven't discovered. And that's what that's what this machine is taking advantage of. And I think we're just left to discover how it works, or even discover the force itself. But I don't think it's actually gravity. I think it's just another force that repels.

Hmm. So I don't know where to go with that, But I just, I increasingly believe that's the case. Yeah, because it doesn't behave like gravity should. Like gravity shouldn't be manipulatable to that extent. No, no. And there's no evidence that gravity works that way. Right.

So it's, I think there's a good chance it's something else that works similar to it. Or that's interacting with gravity. Or interacts with it. Yeah. But we just haven't stumbled on it yet. But, you know, or maybe we have. Like I said, 35 years has gone by and there's been other. people tinkering with that stuff and I can only hope so. It's just I haven't seen any,

anything flying around that it works like that. Yeah. Man, I would give anything to see something flying around that works like that. Yeah, yeah, well, yeah, yeah, but once you see it, you've seen it. Yeah. You know, I mean, the drive you have, you know, to know, and, you know, boy, I'm really into UFOs. I like to see that, you know, you know, it's like really wanting to see a movie. You know, I can't wait until the next Star Wars comes out. I'm so excited and all that. You know, and after you see it, it's gone, you know.

I mean, once you see how the technology works and all that and, you know, people, how come you're not, you know, following this or going to go into UFO conventions? The amazement's gone. I see what's going on. I got to touch it. I got to work with it. And, you know, the only thing that's driving you is not. not knowing.

But once you know, it takes the wind out of yourselves. It's kind of like a magic trick. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there you go. You know, but what... That's exactly like a magic trick, really. Yeah. Well, what I enjoy about magic now is being able to see it in others.

See, that's why Barry was so excited. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was able to show, you know, show you the magic and then ruin the magic for you. Right. All right, I got a little list of things I just want to get through real quickly about Gravitor, about, you know, all this stuff. This here, we pretty much ran through all of that. There are, there are rumors, just to clear the air type deal. There are rumors that underground facilities at S4 existed. Were you ever aware of that? Was that ever brought up? Did you ever hear of that or see anything? I didn't hear or see.

Nothing. No talk about it. Yeah. I can't say that they weren't there. No, yeah. I did not see them. I never saw any down staircases. I never heard a person talk about it.

So I just don't know. Great. There was one time you got to see down the hangers. This is another, again, you know, if you guys are looking to experience what, you know, some of what Bob experienced, check out Project Gravitor. Because there is a point. where you walked into the hangar, the one time all the hanger doors were open. Yeah.

And you quickly got to see down this massive, like, silo, this huge hangar. The outside doors were closed. Yeah. They were large inside bay doors for each one. And one time I went in there, all those bay doors were open. And I walked in from the lab door, which is directly across them all. And you could see inside every hangar, you know, a part, of a craft, you know, I think you could see at least three after that.

It was too far away to see. But yeah, yeah, you can see there were other crafts. And, you know, there was obviously a lot more going on than I was being exposed to. Yeah, there were probably other propulsion teams working. Yeah, yeah. Simultaneously. No, no doubt. You saw like this jello mold one.

Yeah, there was a jello mold. There was one that looked like a carnival hat, which was just square. And that was standing up. and had a hole through it, like it had been shot with a projectile from underneath, and the metal was bent up. And that one is said to be found in the water, too, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, the Navy is behind all this stuff.

Yeah, it's, I'm just fascinated what might be going on in the water. I don't know if it was the ocean, a lake, or whatever, but, you know, what has the water got to do with all this stuff in the Navy? So it's, I'm fascinated by that. Yeah, you'd think like if a craft like this could have transmedium capability, right? This is what a lot of, you know, what's coming out right now is that these things are able to travel not only through air frictionless, but through water as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It should present no problem at all.

Then, you know, would that stop at water? I don't know. I don't know. I mean, would they be able to go through solid matter? Right. Maybe. Maybe there's a limit, you know, a density limit. Yeah.

Maybe, you know, liquid falls within that limit that you can penetrate through. Maybe if it increases, you know, density increases paths there, you cannot go through. Yeah. Or maybe it's free to just, they could go through mountains or, you know, who knows. But that would even be, that would even be crazy. I don't know. I don't know if I could think about that. Yeah, I don't even know what to make of that.

But in the water, it seems like a good place to hide if you were. Yeah, since it's the planet's almost all water. Yeah, you can hide an entire civilization down there and we'd never know. Yeah, you wouldn't have to go to the backside of the moon or to Mars or... No, especially if they could go deep. Yeah, they can just hang out down there and they have no chance of running into us. Yeah, there's been some, you know, a lot of talk of that actually being a case we had um lu elizondo here on the podcast at one point i'm sure you're familiar with

lou um but he you know he had said as well that they had footage apparently um this is osap or a tip or i don't know one of these one of these um programs that had footage crystal clear 4k footage of a giant round mass traveling at 500 knots and this is a massive thing like bigger than And he's like the size of a city block. And it was traveling at 500 knots. There's like 500 miles an hour. Underwater. Underwater.

Okay. And this was spotted out by like an oil rig and like multiple witnesses and like top down footage of it. So I'm guessing satellite footage. He didn't want to divulge that, but put it together. He said it was round. So I assume it's from the top. So it's probably satellite footage. But yeah, this thing traveling.

And then also Tim Galadette, who's a. Navy Rear Admiral also said that they had encountered large crafts moving at four to 500 knots underwater. That's unreal. Yeah. That's unreal. Yeah. So, I mean... Especially something that size, you know, we're not talking about a pencil moving at 500 knots.

No. A city block moving at that. Yeah. Yeah. You're not doing that without really advanced technology. Yeah. Yeah. It seems like that would be the place to look.

while everyone's looking up in the sky and into space, you know, maybe a lot more of the activity. And that would probably explain why the Navy was so heavily invested. I think I, I'm just under the impression they happened onto it at one time. And they were just, you know, they had dibs on it. They ran into it in some way. And it became theirs. Yeah, because like a lot of the, you know, when you came out initially with, with this, this is the first time people heard about an intact sort of crash retrieval.

or retrieval of like a spaceship. Every, every, I say spaceship, but again, you know, maybe lived in the ocean. But these things, you know, tended through stories at least to be debris or wrecks or everything else. So, I mean, if the Navy finds these intact in the water, it would put them at the front of, you know, this whole thing. It's really interesting. Okay. Last, I want to just ask you about a few people. Travis Walton, you're familiar with his story?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what I find fascinating about Travis, other than his testimony, because I do believe, I believe he's telling the truth as he knows it. I think he. Yeah, Luigi, I think, knows him well or met him. Yeah. Yeah, he sounds like an interesting guy to talk to. I hope to in the future at some point I get to talk to him.

Yeah, well, I would. I'd be honored to facilitate that, that event if ever you choose to, you know, I'll move, I'll move mountains. I think that would be really interesting because one of the reasons is the craft that he describes, I mean, it sounds a lot like the craft that you worked on. Oh, really? Yeah. Even so much is sort of the arches.

Now, with his craft, he saw it. the only time he saw like the exterior was he was always under it. But it had those sort of like arches under it, right? When it glowed. Oh, okay. Um, and yeah. So there was, I've always, I've always thought that like, you guys should meet and talk about this craft because there might be,

there might be some similarities. Uh, the second similarity of crafts, and this is where it becomes a little bit more contentious with, I'm sure a lot of people out there, Billy Meyer. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know, I've seen Billy Meyer images. Yeah. Luigi has a poster one.

I mean, one of them, come on, it looks exactly like the sport model. Yeah. It looks exactly like it. So you can't tell me that's a fake picture. It's impossible. Yeah. So, I mean, that's where it becomes, like, incredibly. confusing with Billy Meyer because you look at some of his other photos and I'm sure that you feel

this way too. Yeah, some of them are not. You're like, what is this? Yeah. This is like almost like a you know, but this is something I think, um, my friend of mine, Gene Huff called UFO researcher syndrome. You get some of these guys that are really into it and they start bringing some facts forward and, you know, begin to get attention. They, you know, give lectures and things like that. And then, you know, maybe they had some initial sighting or information. They work for the Navy or Air Force or something. And, you know, it kind of dies away and they begin missing the attention. And then their story begins to expand a little bit and, oh, wait, I forgot to tell you, you know, and, you know, their attention comes back. And, you know, that keeps increasing. And, you know,

And then also the Martian said, you know, and then you have some, you know, ridiculous thing. And I think my own personal opinion, I think Billy Meyer did have some sighting, you know, got some pictures that were authentic. And look at the time in the 70s, there was, you know, nothing. There was a Polaroid and it's not like you can fake anything. Yeah. You know, he got a lot of attention, a lot of press and all that. and he was just a one-on farmer in Switzerland, if I recall. And, you know, just a lonely guy out there.

And all of a sudden, he's in all the news and all that. And then that begin to fade away. And I think the same thing happened, or at least possibly, that, wait, here's another flying saucer I forgot to tell you about. That looks like a cake, Billy, you know, and it has golf balls stuck to it and sitting in his driveway with a string attached to it. So, yeah, I mean, some of them look. ridiculous, but I can't explain the similarity to, you know, the sport model. That's why I think I'm convinced that's an actual photograph. If I pull out, I have a book here.

If I pull it out, could you point the one you're referring to? Yeah, yeah, sure. Not this one. Yeah, no. Yeah, yeah, you're there. Yeah. All these? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. is the uh yeah yeah i mean there's the underside yeah he's got quite a few yeah yeah i'm sorry that's it now i mean the and i even mentioned that i don't know if i got the amount of pumps right the rings yeah um sometimes it looks different maybe it's a different but i mean that that's it the sort of portholes or whatever those are yeah yeah i'm sorry Sorry, I'm 100% behind those.

Yeah. A hundred percent. There's no way Billy could have gotten that without seeing it. Yeah. So he might have seen this. And then as time went on, other things happened and other crafts came into being. Yep. Yeah.

Right. But do you think there's a possibility that, and this is like purely speculative, that afterwards Billy might have been like messed with or something? That's also a possibility too. You know, because seeing something like that, putting those photos as a big deal. Yeah, yeah, especially back then. Yeah, especially that craft. You know, you know the amount of security that was behind that craft.

They did not fly that around willy-nilly. No, they're not cruising over Switzerland. Yeah, no, not at all. Yeah, that's possible. He's a single guy, you know, in the mountains of Switzerland somewhere. Yeah. Yeah, you're not going to let a guy ruin your security. Yeah.

Yeah, that's always stuck out with me, too, is that like it's such a bizarre thing because you mentioned Billy Meyer in today's, you know, day and age, people automatically. Yeah, absolutely. And, yeah, I mean, from what I've seen, some of the stuff just looks. Some of the stuff's ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. It's ridiculous. And then there's the whole simease, which, again, I don't know, is it true? It's not, look at this.

Come on. That's a hubcap with a nonsense. Yeah. It's 100%. I could build a better UFO. Yeah. But then the original ones are so... And as a photographer, I love photography.

I love it. Like, I mean, the composition and everything, like, they were beautiful photos. Yeah. Like, really, really beautiful photos. Yeah, but something changed. Yeah. So, but I don't, I don't claim to know what's going on. I just know that that craft looks a lot like the crafts that I worked on.

I mean, 90, 95%. Yeah. And how do you explain that? Yeah. Wow. Incredible. All right, Bob, I got a few questions from some interns. So we have this membership and interns can ask questions to the guests.

They don't know that they're getting to ask you questions as we're pre-recording this. This is only coming out later when the documentary is released. So they had no idea that I was. you know, going to have a podcast with you, but I asked them in our little channel. I was like, hey guys, just, you know, fun, fun little question. Like, if you could ask Bob one thing, what would it be?

And then, like, people just started chiming in. So I grabbed a few of those questions and I'm going to pull them up here. I have to just go turn this camera on. Give me one second. Okay. Aren't those crazy? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, here, some of them are really interesting because if you look at,

like, that one looks a little suss, but if you look at these ones, there's one right here. There's double exposure because the craft moved. Oh, that's interesting. I've never seen this book. This is a fascinating book. This was a gift from Luigi, actually.

Really? Yeah. Oh, I mean, I, Luigi gave me, I think he gave me a picture book. It's much thinner and has, you know, a few, not this many pictures in it. but a few of, you know, the sport model. Yep. Was that was, they referred to it as a sport model? I referred to it.

You referred to it. Yeah. Everybody picked that up. Really? Yeah, yeah. After that, it was the sport model. It was the sport model. It does look like a sport model.

Yeah. I mean. That's, boy, that's something. Down to the antenna. That's like, that's like right there. You see it right there. Yeah. Even that picture looks weird.

to me, well, there's... Yeah, I don't know if that's multiple or if it's long exposure, if it's bouncing around. I don't know. Some of them, but again, some of them look real. Yeah, and some of them will look absolutely fabricated. Yeah, they look completely fabricated. And you know what? He's still around.

It'd be nice to hear from him and to get something, you know, get him. I just don't know if... I think Luigi talked to him. Yeah? Yeah. I would love to see something. come from that, to be honest. He's somebody, I think, that I think still needs to be heard in terms of, in terms of that, because I think there is something there, obviously, with the craft. All right, I'm going to pull this up. I've got to pull my phone out for this. Here's the first question. This is from a gentleman named Bobski. How was the food at us more? It was just, what do you call those machines? Just vending machines? Yeah, it was just, just, it's just,

vending machine. Like sandwiches and stuff? Yeah. Yeah. It was like EG and G vending machines? No, it was. They were actually old, you know, just generic food vending machines. You know, they had M&Ms and stuff in there.

And they had another one that gave you either coffee or this imitation chicken soup or hot chocolate. And, you know, they had ones that had some sandwiches in there. I never had a sandwich from there. But what was your go-to? My go-to was the crackers. with the peanut butter in them. Oh, that's it? Yeah, yeah.

Just crackers and peanut butter. Yeah. Low-carb diet. We'll do, uh, all right, we got another one here. Um, yeah, this seems like a good question. This is from Hara. That's a tough one. From the hangar.

Or from the lab. That's kind of a trick question there. Why is it a trick question? Um, boy, I just don't want to get into it. that. All right. All right. Yeah.

Feel free. Yeah, that's fine. There was a story of a burger camera. Okay. Yeah. There was that. Yeah. But that wasn't in the hangar.

Oh, that wasn't in the hangar. Okay. Yeah. Do you want to tell that story? Yeah, yeah. Sure. At the time, it was later on in there. I went to Burger King in the morning.

And at that time, you know, there were no iPhones or digital cameras or anything. Everything was on film. and they had 1-10 film cartridges, which were small about that big and had a little round area on each side where the film would go. And Burger King had, I think if you bought a whopper, they had a camera,

which is just a very small piece that would just snap on to the 110 cartridge and turn it into a camera. So you could take pictures like that, but it only made it like maybe two and a half inches long by three quarters of an inch to like a rectangle like that. And that I knew I can get into F4. So to fast forward a bit,

my desk had hollow steel legs on it. Yeah, kind of like these. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But with like holes in them? No, no, no. The bottoms are open because one of them had, you know, the little plastic caps was missing, so I know it was hollow.

So I actually managed to take a single picture of the craft by opening the door, and I put the camera in the leg, not knowing, because I wanted to see if I could come and go, but I never got to take it out again. So the camera and the picture are still at F4 in that leg. Wow. Well, if anybody's working at S4 right now that's watching this, do us a favor, grab that camera. upload that picture. We want to see it.

Yeah. That would be so wild that the best picture of a UFO would be taken from a little, like a fast food camera or whatever. I mean, actually, to answer the question, I may have already done that. Okay. Yep. Good enough. All right. No. No, I want to see it again. I want to know more about everything there. That I am, I sleep thinking about that technology.

If you could ask somebody who worked at us for right now, right? If you could talk to them right now, what's something you'd ask? What did you find out? Where did we go from there? I mean, tell me anything. Tell me, how was the power generated? You know, how did the components communicate to each other? What range did they work? Just tell me anything. Fill in any blank at all. It's like having a crosswood puzzle with nothing in it.

Just please put a letter anywhere, and I'd be happy. So that's right. Anything, any word that came out of his mouth would be, I'd be super happy. And if you could give advice to somebody on their first day at S4, what would that be? Just follow the rules. Don't be a jerk. Just go along with the project or else you'll regret it. Bobizar, I appreciate your time.

This has been for me just one of the greatest experiences of my career, getting to speak with you on camera. So I... Well, thank you. Yeah, I'm very, very grateful that you were able to do this and that we were able to connect in this way. It means a lot to me, so thank you. I wish you luck with Project Ravitor and S4, the Bob Lazar story. Thank you. And I hope that one day you get the answers that you seek.

Me too. Thank you, sir. Thank you.