AREA52 - DEBRIEFED With Chris Ramsay - Former CIA Officer Confirms Alien Hybrids are Real - John Ramirez - DEBRIEFED ep. 42

Episode Date: June 20, 2025

Former CIA analyst John Ramirez joins me for one of the most revealing conversations yet. We get into alleged human-alien hybrid programs, alien bloodlines, and classified UFO reverse engineering efforts. John opens up about his own encounters, what he was “read into” during his time at the Agency, and why he believes disclosure is already happening..AREA 52 Shop: https://www.area52.shopPatreon Exclusive Content: https://www.patreon.com/Area52investigations

Has there ever been a situation that you were in where you've gotten confirmation of government's involvement with human alien hybrids? Yes. Okay. From a credible source, you can say. Yes. They know about the hybrids. Yes. I mean, gun to your head right now, you would say absolutely.

Absolutely. Yes. They were able to collect DNA from aliens. John Ramirez's former CIA. officer, 25-year career. CIA had a program to trace this alien DNA in certain families, and particularly their children, were of interest to CIA. The CIA was tracking the activity of hybrids, human-alien hybrids in the United States.

And going back in their lineage. In that 25 years, did you encounter anyone, you? You knew for sure was read into one of the deeper programs. Yes. Did you have a lot of interactions with this person? Yes, I did. My name was submitted for that particular compartment. And the Pentagon came back and said, no, we're not going to reach John and arrows into that.

No way. You specifically? You specifically cannot be read it. He said, you don't understand John. This program is the highest secret, top secret in the entire United States government. This top secret information exceeds that of Manhattan Project. His branch did operations under the sea retrieving things. Bob, one of my engineers, was looking at one of the manuals.

It's that thick. And he left it on his desk. The title was UFO propulsion systems, manual operations. We were flying something that wasn't a satellite. What did it look like? It looked like an egg. I personally had only one, I would call bad, but not demonic, experience. And that experience was with a reptilian-like being that showed up in my condo

when I lived in Washington, D.C. And the other, I can't identify because it was shrouded. It was wearing a cloak. A hood. A hood. Yeah. A cloak and a hood. And they showed up one night and they just woke up.

Oh, don't mind us. We just want to let you know that we know you. moved. And then I went to medical services. I had something done here. And can I get those records? Sorry. Your medical records are classified. You cannot have them. Wait, they classified your own medical records? Implants are real. Yeah. It's not a conspiracy theory and hybrids are real. That's not a conspiracy theory. I was like really young back in 2003. Me and I almost like sitting upright. At the time, we didn't have cell phones, take pictures of it. So I told me, run inside.

I don't grab a camera. Ladies and gentlemen, today I am joined by the incomparable John Ramirez's former CIA officer, 25-year career with the CIA, which is incredibly impressive. There's a lot of things that I'd like to talk to you about today. A lot of things that I refrained mentioning while we were having interactions in the last 24 hours because I wanted to save it for here. But I appreciate you coming into the skiff and welcome. Well, thanks very much, Chris, for having me here. I've seen your podcast myself, and I really like the way you conduct interviews. And I really love all of this, I would call it, lab equipment.

This is very similar to what I had in my electronic intelligence lab at CIA headquarters, with the addition as receivers and other signal processing equipment. But basically, you have all of the components required to do signals analysis. right here. That's interesting. I noticed you gravitating towards this yesterday as I gave you the tour of the office and you like a moth to a flame came right up to these things. You were able to recognize a lot of the equipment. So, you know, as much as this is purely aesthetic, you know, for this podcast, I'm glad to know that in the event where I needed to do signal analysis, it could come in handy. And if you need a signals analyst, I'm here. All right. Well, hire.

Definitely hired. John, I'd like to maybe for the audience at home, just if you could give me the brief sort of pitch of what you did at the CIA, what your job was, and how you got interested in the UFO slash UAP phenomenon within that context. I was a electronic intelligence analyst, E-L-L-I-N-E-E-L-N. Eeylent, and that's one of the branches of signal intelligence or sigent. And this branch of SIGANT deals with radar signals, signals coming from missile seekers, signals associated with weapon systems. So the purpose was to collect and analyze these signals, process the signals, and then to be able to determine the capabilities of a weapon system just based on the signals. On that sense, we were reverse engineering the weapon system just based on the capabilities of that system to be able to detect, track, and engage targets.

The target being if it's an adversary system, it will be our planes, for example. And so that's very valuable in the determination of what kind of countermeasures we need to deploy in order to defeat an adversary's ability to detect our aircraft and to keep our aircraft safe. safe. So that was just in a short description. That's what I did. Wow. Now, as to how I got involved with UFO, UAP topic, the ELLIT discipline has very little to do with UAPs, UFOs. However, the systems that I was assigned did detect anomalous signatures when they were tracking ballistic missiles of their own manufacture, they were accompanied by strange lights, strange objects. Tagalongs. Tagalongs, right.

And they were called the domes of light phenomenon by FTT back in the day. And so when the Soviet Union would launch a ballistic missile test, these domes of light would accompany the missile. And so that was very similar to what occurs. heard with, for example, the Atlas launch that Bob Jacobs talked about. Hair's going up on the back of my neck right now thinking about it, just remembering that day. I saw something that was so strange that it changed my light. In November of 1964, Jacobs was assigned to film a Vandenberg missile launch using a brand

new state-of-the-art telescope developed at Boston University. Something flew into the frame. What I saw was a circular object. It was a classic. flying saucer, and it shot a beam of something at our warhead. You have to imagine this thing is flying along several thousand miles an hour. This stuff is flying along, and something comes into the frame and chasing it. The flight was disrupted, and parts of the missile was destroyed. So it's similar to what we saw in the Soviet Union. And so I was assigned a particular radar in the Soviet Union that was very unique.

to the Soviet Union. And we found out that the purpose of the radar was atmospheric anomalous research. Ooh. So the waveforms were completely different from any other Soviet air defense system or ballistic missile defense system. And that you mean that they were made to detect. They weren't made to detect anything that was standard, the wave system that you're referring to. No, because there were other radars. on that test range that were more like what they deployed.

Right. This system was never deployed operationally other than at this location. Wow. And so this radar, to this day, is still operational. And it was ignored primarily after the Soviet Union fell. Less and less testing was done. And it wasn't really used that much. until about 2016, I understand, that President Putin ordered that this radar system be completely renovated, refurbished, and brought back online.

Wow. And I believe it is back online based on the overhead photography I was able to see of this particular radar system on Google Earth. Wow. That's very interesting. So, I mean, being in that position, you had a job that allowed. you access to an immense repertoire of Intel. I mean, that was part of your job, was collecting intelligence. That's what the CIA does best.

When you're in a position like that, do you sometimes come across things that even surprise you? Certainly. That's the thing that intelligence analyst has to do. It's part of the trade craft is not get trapped into the same old ways of thinking. We have to employ critical thinking, and every time I looked at a radar signal, I have to dismiss what I've seen before because I'm going to see something new. And it's particularly the radar systems we're looking at were in development and constantly improved. And so every time there was a missile launch, I would look for those changes, detect the changes

in the waveforms. And then by detecting those changes and processing the waveforms, we can then determine if there is a new capability coming online for that particular radar system. So in that sense, yes,

we had to employ critical thinking and not get trapped into the same ways of thinking about that particular system. Otherwise, you might miss it. You might dismiss it. Yeah, so you guys, we had chats about this

prior to the podcast, which is interesting, but like magicians, have a lot to do with understanding behavioral sciences. And in that we have to use those normal behaviors, so to speak, in our favor to create a sort of outcome. And that's not unlike a lot of the work that you guys did as well. You guys had to take information that, like you said, you couldn't treat it like normal information. You had to extract from it what you could find useful. and then somehow use that to your advantage.

Is that, would that be fair to say? That's very accurate, yes. That makes you guys magicians or it makes me a spy. I'm not sure which one. Maybe a little boat. Maybe a little boat. So during your time there, I mean, obviously you're obviously looking at a lot of anomalous activity and anomalous not in the sense that it's necessarily extraterrestrial, but that it's new to you.

But was there a point where you encountered something you thought. to be extraterrestrial. Yes. I was talking about this particular radar, and this radar would come up and will start transmitting signals prior to the launch, so we can detect that. And we know that the launch is being prepared because in order to fire a ballistic missile, you know, you have to put it on the launch pad and you have to do things to the missile.

and to prepare it for launch. And so we have telemetry signals being tested before the launch. So we knew that something was up. And in the meantime, the radar was warming up, so to speak, going through a series of waveform modes of operation, getting it ready.

And then the launch would happen. We would detect that back then through the defense support program, the DSP satellites, that detect infrared signatures of a launch. and by comparing the DSP signatures, telemetry signatures, and the radar signals itself, we can primarily pretty much reverse engineer the flight path. We knew exactly how high the missile would go, and we knew how far it would go,

and we kind of knew the impact point. And meanwhile, the radar is operating. And then after the entire launch would be finished, that is the missile impacted as planned, the radar would gradually shut down. And it will go through the same kind of pacing of shutting it down. So it might do a few waveform modes and prepare it to shut down. So we can detect that. But occasionally the radar would pick up something else. And it will start tracking nothing that we could.

determine that there was something up there that was of interest to the Soviets up in their space. And they would start tracking objects that we could not determine what they were. When they were going through the same iteration of waveforms as if there was a real object there. Whoa. So that was our indication that, you know, there's something up there that the interests, the Russians, there's something up there to pique their interest enough that they would

continue operating the radio. artists and they probably themselves are wondering what's up there. Wow. That's so interesting that you guys were observing them observing something. Right. Right. And so that's when FDD started analyzing, you know, what could possibly be. And that's when they came up with the domes of light that they were actually like liked signatures. Like orbs. We would call orbs today. But then there were domes of light. That was the phrase that actually if you look up old FTD documents, they would refer to it as the domes of light. Wow. Wow. That's when we determined that, yeah, there were something up there of interest,

anomalous, to the Soviets, and that they were studying this as well. And later we found out that there actually were something, there were domes of light up there that we would call orbs. What gave you that confirmation? Well, first of all, we were able to actually see these orbs. Visually. Not as a photograph, but as measures of intensity or radiance. Oh, actual light signatures. Yes. So at the beginning, the detection system wasn't capable of imaging anything, like the way we would think that we could see through an IR camera or something like. that, but they would detect radiance. It was measured as watts to radian meter square. And basically, that's just a number. But it would detect a series of these numbers, and we can determine where

the intensity was. So you have time on one scale and intensity on the other scale. And so all of a sudden, the intensity ramped up. There was something there, highly intense, and then went ramp back down. and maybe there's another object of intensity on ramp back down. Later, we had the capability of actually imaging what these were, and that's when we start detecting orbs. Wow. And as many witnesses of these orbs will tell you, what we detected through these systems was an object that,

invisible light, 600 nanometers was the wavelength. And that 600 nanometers corresponds to the orange color and the visual range. And we also got scientific information as well as to the radiance and other characteristics of these objects. Wow. Yeah. And that adds up with, I mean, a numerous amount of cases and experiences with craft. You know, the orange light were from Travis Walton to Bob Lazare to Chris Bledso to so many. others. And so what you were observing was, yeah, the early UFOs, so to speak. Right. And what surprised

us, though, is that we were aware of structured craft. I'm pretty certain we were aware of structured. That is something with a hard surface. And by by, by you were aware of, what do you mean by that? That means there were previous collections of structured craft. I see. And of course, there was a whole body of collection from photographs by civilians, and other sources in the government where they actually saw structured craft. Yeah.

Collections of these photographs. Like McMinnville, a few of those early 50s and 60s, like hat-shaped ones and all of those you're referring to. Those detections occurred long after Project Blue Book stopped, ostensibly stopped because CIA never stopped its own project to investigate UFOs. Contrary to what the CIA may publicly say,

there was always an interest in that. So throughout the course of studying these structured craft, we had a pretty good idea of what was up there in terms of something that was aerodynamic. For example, something that could fly in our atmosphere. However, these orbs were not structured. There were energy, light energy, and yet they behaved as if they were structured.

That is, they flew in a certain time. type of trajectory, a certain velocity, and they maneuvered. So we knew that there weren't satellites. So satellites, though they are capable of station keeping, there's enough fuel on board to adjust its orbit so that the orbit won't decay, and it can maneuver a little bit. But they're not going to make these 90-degree turns, you know, and shoot straight up or anything like that. They won't exhibit those five observables.

Yeah. A satellite won't do that. No. But these craft did. And unlike something solid, like Tic Tac, you know, these light orbs were doing the same thing. Wow. So that's what piqued CIA's interest. What are these orbs?

And as we progressed in our ability to detect these objects because we made advances in our constellations that we have up in space, we were better able to actually determine the characteristics of these orbs. And so that led to what I call the Orb Working Group. Now, that's not the official name of the working group. It had a official name, which I don't know, because I refused to be read into it purposely. I didn't want to know. I knew enough so that if I knew more than I knew at that time, I wouldn't be speaking with you right now. That's right.

I would not be talking. As soon as you're right into it, you can't talk about it. I can't talk about it. But because I knew about it and I had enough information, credible information, because I sent two of my engineers to this working group, I got enough information as to what they were looking at. And so it was these orange orbs. And so I got a briefing on these orbs at a very lower classification level, not top secret, but much lower. And it was still classified. But that's why I included in my very few first view graphs, or I say view graphs that

dates me. My PowerPoint presentations, my PowerPoint slides, I included the existence of the Orb Working Group as this is the way we would study orbs. And the way I describe it was the way actually it happened. And so I submitted to CIA for their review and they came back unredacted saying, yeah, you can talk about this in public. So that's why you know that there was an Orb Working Group. Wow. And that started around 2003, 2004. Do you think that that Orb Working Group are of the same people that studied Chris Bledsoe's case? I don't have that direct information. I don't know.

Would you assume that? I think that's a safe assumption. Let's put it that way. But this orb working group included members of the entire intelligence community. So outside of the CIA? Outside of CIA. NGA was the lead because the orbs were found on NGA data. Since they owned the data, they were the lead.

And then we participated with NGA, DIA, NRA, everybody, along with our contractors. Right. And they met in St. Louis, Missouri, which is NGA West. So there's two headquarters. One is NGA East back in the Washington, D.C. area. And they're in Springfield, Virginia. And the other's NGA West, which is in St. Louis, Missouri.

So they all gathered in St. Louis, Missouri, and then went to other places as the working group progressed. That's very interesting. It's really interesting to know that like even for an agency like the CIA, the nuts and bolt stuff, they're like, no, we understand that. We have that. Yes. This stuff is anomalous. And it often makes me wonder if there's a, if there's some type of extraterrestrial being out there that also experiences UAP, you know, an unidentified anomalous phenomenon that they've seen. and they're like, we can't explain that either.

One wonders. One wonders. And I know that we have something. I would say this much. One of my engineers, I'll use his first name. I'll just use first names. These are actual first names. His first name was Bob.

Virginia Tech graduate had a master's in electrical engineering. One of my primary engineers who worked in my branch. And he received a lot of materials. I had two engineers, Alan, A-L-L-E-N, Alan, and Bob. So these two guys were sent to the O-B Working Group. They got briefed into a compartment dealing with everything CIA knew about UFOs at the time. Whoa. So they got read into that.

And so they asked me. You sent them there? Yes, I was asked to send them there. You were asked to send them there. Yes, because there was a lead subjectmatic expert in our parent office. was leading CIA's effort. And so he reached out back into the agency and see who the other subject experts might be. And the way we got involved with this prior to the working group was that we were looking at the possibility of it being the orbs being some kind of Russian technology.

Right. Yeah. Russian countermeasures, ballistic missile countermeasures, or we knew that the Russians had. something called plasma stealth. Right. And these are like actual external pods that they can hang on the heart points of certain aircraft to create a plasma field in order to do what stealth does, is to disrupt the fire control solution to shoot that aircraft down.

And so that's what stealth does. You don't want to be shot down. So you want to either delay that fire control solution or, disrupt it so that the aircraft stays intact and safe to its mission. So we knew that they had these types of devices and we ruled that out. It couldn't have been plasma stealth. First of all, what we detected was out in space. Oh. And so these aircraft, they don't fly in space. Most days, I'm neck deep in files, interviews and whatever that thing was, but not today. Today's quiet. And on these quiet days, I like to feel good, which is why I shop Huckberry.

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And even the Mick 31, it went up to 123,000 feet before it ran out of air and had to come back down. It was just a test flight, just to see how high it would go. I have no idea what the condition of the pilot was, but they went up to 123,000 feet, has the altitude record for an air breathing craft to this day and had to come back down. This was a Mick 31 Falksound. So we knew it wasn't that. We looked at another aircraft called the Sequoise-S-U-34,

full-back. It wasn't that. And so we ruled out any kind of air-breathing aircraft that would have plasma stealth on it. So we knew it wasn't that. And it was also moving and on it like, it was moving intelligently. It was moving intelligently,

and aircraft can move intelligently because it's piloted. But anomalously. Like it was... Not at that altitude. Right, and it was performing maneuvers that... Exactly. I mean, it would tear the aircraft apart.

Right. Okay. So we ruled that out, and so what's left over? That's what they were looking at. What could this be? Mm-hmm. And in the course of their study,

they asked me for safe. So I got them a standard government issue safe. They come in two beautiful colors. I called it bureaucratic black. And that's one of the colors. Really? Yeah. And so I got them a black safe.

That's good. It's a great clothing line. Yeah, bureaucratic. Yeah. It comes in bureaucratic black. Yeah. And you can get a gray one. Government gray and bureaucratic black.

Government gray. You know. And you look up at the. the GSA catalog, and you'll see these General Services Administration provides furniture for the government, the entire government. You'll see these safes and has a combination lock and several drawers and everything. So I got them a safe, and they started getting materials from this working group, compartmental materials on the UFO program. They had to go in a safe. Now, one of my engineers, when I was going with this, Bob, one of my engineers, was looking at

one of the manuals. It was that thick. And he left it all. on this desk, facefront, just as you have this folder here, and I was able to read the title. And the title was UFO propulsion systems. Whoa. Manual of operations. So if you have a UFO propulsion system manual of operations, that tells me that somebody reverse engineered some craft. And it's that thing.

And it's that thick. All right. So I have that piece of data. So what happened to that? Well, I looked at the title. Bob had his back turned. He turned around, saw me looking at the title, immediately grabbed that,

placed it front cover down, so I couldn't read the cover. Sorry about that, boss, and then immediately put it back into safe and locked it up. Oh, my gosh. So I know that they were briefed into something that we already reverse engineered. Whoa.

So that lends credence to a lot of witnesses saying, yes, we have reverse engineer craft. So I can say, based on that manual. And these weren't like, defense intelligence reference documents were just like a dozen pages, like white papers.

Yeah. No, this was a manual. Whoa. Somebody worked on that manual. And it looked dated in a sense that it looked like nothing current. It looked like it was like decades old. 50s, 60s.

Well, I'd say maybe not 50s. Okay. But maybe 70s, 80s. Sure. About about that. timeframe. What color was the was the book? It was almost that color, what you have there.

It was like a DIA drab. There's another good one. DIA drab. It's like DIA published a lot of manuals that are very thick. And they come in different colors. I don't know if the colors mean anything. Yeah. But the point being that it was a manual, not a white paper, not a

talking points or anything like that. Yeah. It was a manual. Somebody did some actual work on a UFO propulsion system to the point that they were able to write a manual operation for it. That's incredible. And it seems like an incredible oversight on Bob's behalf to just leave that lying around. Yes.

Yes. And had I looked into it, had I opened it, I would be charged with a security violation. Right. Because Bob would have to, he's obligated to report me. But seeing the title was okay? Inverton. Right. Inverton.

And then he took measures to secure the document. He would have been reprimanded anyways as well, obviously. Yes. That is, that's crazy. Is there a part of you that regrets not being read into that, like for your own sort of knowing? Not at all. Because you have a building, a CIA headquarters and our many, many outbuildings. We're not just at CIA headquarters.

There are several buildings in Northern Virginia that constitute CIA. Not at all, because I would say that being read into it would have prevented me from speaking out. But we are an intelligence agency, and you have intelligence analysts and collectors working there. And what do we do best is collect intelligence. so you can be in the building, not read into something, and be able to discern what's going on. I see. You're very clever about it.

There's enough water cooler cafeteria talk that you pick up on things. Wow. So I didn't need to be read into it. I knew enough based on my earlier career of working with these domes of light phenomenon and working with that particular radar, actually met a woman who is an operations officer,

and she complained to me, I got sent up to this mountain, and they told me to look for these domes of light. And I apologized to her. Yeah, that was us. Yeah, we needed collection, a human collection, using one of our operations officers to go up a mountain, set up, and look for these domes of light. We also had a collection system where we built.

Was that successful? I'm not sure, because she didn't tell me whether she found anything or not. Oh, wow. So you were able to send her out, but you weren't able to find it whether she signed it. I met her not as a plan meeting, but we were taking the same course. And the course had nothing to do with UAPs or anything. But she was in the same course, and so she complained.

You know, the craziest thing I ever did in my CIA career so far, and she was a younger woman, was they sent me up in a mountain. I was looking for these domes of light. I don't know what that was. And I explained to her, oh, yeah, it's about these anonymous objects that we detected over the Soviet Union. That's why you were sent up there. apologized to her. Sorry. Wow.

She said that was a pretty, pretty rough kind of mission for her to go on. Wow. So strange. So, yeah. So to answer your question, I had enough information, a priori to know that there was something going on, had enough ability to collect other data. An example, Russian early warning, ballistic missile orderly warning system detected these these orbs.

And they thought that it was U.S. sneak attack. And so they brought up their alert level. And when they bring up their alert level, we can detect the fact that they brought up their alert level. And you have these missiles that were needed to be pre-prepped. And so there are certain indications that we are able to detect a launch might be occurring. Yeah. It's hard to hide the signature of a major retaliatory strike. Right. So they were prepping. They didn't go all the way up to DEF CON. They're version of Defcom to actually start launching, but we were able to detect that. And so because we were able to detect it, Washington called Moscow saying, what the hell's

going on with you guys? So what the hell is going on with you guys? What are these things? And we don't know what they are. So, you know, there's an ability at the National Military Command Center in the Pentagon to communicate with their counterparts. Because there is a treaty sort of like an agreement in regards to. nuclear arms.

Oh, Stark. Yeah. Star Treaty. Exactly. That if there is any detected anomalous or unidentified objects as it's put in the treaty, that they tell each other about it instead of retaliating immediately. Exactly. So that mechanism worked at that point, and they were able to lower their alert level.

I see. But then comes to question, what were those things that we detected that the Russians detected? Right. Right. And so that's when I wrote the memo to, that. that time, he served as the Deputy Secretary of Defense, John Deutsch. And so I wrote him a memo because his briefer was asked by him,

we want to know what happened in this particular incident. So it came to my branch, which looked at the anti-ballistic missile systems, the ballistic missile systems in Russia. So it landed on my desk, and I wrote up the memo for Deputy Secretary of Defense, John Deutsch. and we were going to give it to the briefer, but I think we actually delivered it in person. I see.

Wow. My colleague and I, we delivered it in person to the Pentagon. So they're aware of it. That's, I mean, that's really fascinating. And it seems, you know, it doesn't surprise me at all. Like when you hear about all this stuff, you know, as much as I wanted to surprise me, I'm like, yeah, it's obviously, you know, obviously if you guys have the capability with all of the

Intel collection devices that you have, whether it's satellite or whether it's human intel or whether it's, you know, remote viewing or whatever it is, you're going to see something eventually, right? This brings me to something that happened to you in 2001. Yes. I want to talk about this because this to me is one of the most fascinating little tales that I've ever heard in that you were invited by, let me get this straight here, just to make sure I got my ducks in a row.

you encountered an officer within the office of the chief scientist and the Director of Science and Technology, and that he told you about a symposium that was being held that you should attend. And this symposium, if I'm not mistaken, was at BDM? No. No? This was at a hotel. Oh, this was at a hotel? Yep.

It's in Tyson's Corner, Virginia. Oh. And... Wait, okay. This is separate from the other meeting. I see that that was a separate meeting. That was separate. Okay.

We'll get to that one. But this one at the hotel, is that something standard that happens, like these briefings and these hotels, these symposiums? Is that? Hotel seemed to be the place to discuss the stuff. Okay. I don't know why. I know Lou Lausando has stated that, you know, he met people at a hotel. Mm-hmm.

Yep. I think it was the Marriott Gateway in Rosalind, Virginia. He mentions that one and other hotels. I don't know what it is about hotels and telediscummitity. but we like going to hotels. Okay. I don't know why. But this was an unclassified one day supposium.

I had no idea what the topic was. The officer from the Office of Chief Scientist, I use first names. His first name was Tom. I might use the last initials because we usually refer to ourselves as like, I'm known as John R in the CIA. We use first name and last initial. Tom K. Okay.

If you're out there, Tom, hi. But, you know, Tom K invited me. And I had no idea. what it was about, but he knew I was interested, and how did he know? Because I had a plush toy of a green, bendable plush toy. I set up on my old-fashioned, you know, CRT Dell Monitor. And it was a gray alien, but it was colored green. It was just a toy, right? So he knew it was interested in that. And so he invited me, said, you might want to show up this one. Was he interested in this stuff? I don't know. I never really followed up with him to see what his interest was. But he knew I was interested.

And so he ran something called the postdoc program at CIA where we sponsored postdoctoral studies of these PhDs. And they were invited as well. It wasn't the invisible college or anything. These were just PhDs that CIA sponsored for their PhDs and then they were following through. Yeah. Possibly later to offer them jobs. Yeah, recruits. Yeah.

That's a good way to think about it. Yeah, recruits. Even like, I mean, you hear about this, and I don't want to use the term grooming, but it's like you hear about a lot of this as well in the intelligence community that they vet a lot of young people. Yes. Early on that show a significant talent. Harold Malmgren being, you know, comes to mind because that seemed like that was his process as well.

So that's nothing new. So go to the hotel. up to this ballroom, I guess you would call it, a conference room in this hotel in Tyson's corner. And there were no security officers there. Look for it. No? And I just wrapped my badge up and put it in my pocket because I didn't need a badge to attend. And I set myself down and there was an agenda being passed out in a sign-up sheet and I signed my name.

Full, true, full name, my phone number at CIA and where I worked at CIA. All that it was in there. Looked at the other names, and there were, like, people from universities because they had .edu as their email address. I see you. And they're full names. And then I noticed that other than Tom Kay, there was another officer I knew, Jim L. Jim L is significant in that he chaired the scientific and technical intelligence committee. Oh.

The major committees in the back when the DCI ran the intelligence. community. So this is a major committee. And he was there as well. And I know him from my own parent office. He was there. And I don't know, I didn't recognize anyone else. But I can use his full name, John Phillips. He's out in public as a former chief of the office of chief scientists. In fact, he was the very first office of the chief scientist head. Before that office was, named something else. And he was present as well. He was present and he introduced another gentleman that I knew, Gerald K. Haynes. Now, Gerald Haynes was CIA's historian. He was also an row historian. He was the run that wrote the paper about CIA UFO interests from 1947 to 1990.

Wow. It's out there. Now, there's two versions of that. One is the public version. One is the classified version. I got the classified version. And so he was there. And he was the one presenting. So he's the one that presented on what CIA did with UFOs going back to 1947. But this is an unclassified setting. At what point did you think that the information that was being talked about should be classified or unclassified because I'm going to let you continue the story because this gets really, really bizarre and it gets quite disturbing a little bit even of, and I'm just really surprised to hear the amount of people that are there that had credentials. Like this was, it feels like this was of some importance at least to people in positions

of, you know, seemingly importance. You would think so, yes. And I don't know why I was there compared to these other gentlemen, I was not that important. But I was invited and I attended. And so the paper that Gerald Haynes wrote was approved by CIA because it was released. And that's why you have it now. You can search for it. I do a Google search for it and you'll find it. So that unclassified version is released. So he was talking about that and he said something very interesting. He said a lot, he said that when we were testing the U2 and A-12, they were silver, and they only operated in broad daylight.

Why was not, were they painted black and why not at night to hide them? Simple explanation. The cameras back in those days didn't have night vision. So, you know, they needed daylight to photograph anything on the ground, and that's how they tested the cameras and the systems in broad daylight, and they're silver. You can see them. You can track them. Easier to track.

But these are airplanes. These are, yeah, advanced airplanes. Sure. U2 for 1955. Yeah. U2 was very advanced. It looks very, yeah. Definitely looks very advanced.

And that first A12 came on board at 1962. And so broad daylight. And people would see these objects up in the sky. They were flying at 70,000 for the U2 and like over around about 85,000 for the A12. and there's these silver streaks up in the sky, people were reporting UFOs. And when people reported UFOs to the local authorities

or to a radio station or TV station or whatever, what have you, newspapers, that peaked our interests, we wanted to know what they were seeing. What did you see? Describe what you see. Because we wanted to know what these craft would look like

to an observer knowing nothing about the program to develop these aircraft, what are they perceiving from the ground looking up? Sure. And so we got those reports. Now, that started the Men and Black Legend when we were visiting the CIA officers. Some of them had Air Force credentials. And they were presenting themselves as Air Force, even though they were CIA.

This was what years? This was the 60s? Yeah, this is like starting from the very first. in the 50s, late 50s. Yeah, because Rex Chaplin as well as was, you know, visited by gentlemen as well. So, like, I mean, you would assume the same department that visited people for explainable aerial phenomenon would also be sent out when UFOs were spotted. It would be the same people. I would imagine so.

Yeah. I would imagine they would have a professional background in the entire topic because. because they were reporting UFOs. So obviously, people who actually know about UFOs would find out, you know, what did you see? So they were reporting these aircraft as UFOs. Now, unlike the Air Force, which encourages you to believe their UFOs, CIA did not. They did not dissuade their belief that they were UFOs. And they would act like Mufon investigators in the sense that they would take in the data.

Right. We just want to know what you saw. We're going to take in the data. Thank you very much. Yeah. Thank you for your patriotism and reporting this to the government, so forth and so on, right? Yeah. But we didn't.

You didn't give them a cover story. Did not give them a cover story. We just wanted to know what you saw. If they saw a UFO, fine. Yep. But they didn't. The CIA did not deliberately tell people you saw them UFO. Right.

Or don't say anything. Don't say. Yeah. No. Okay. We just want the information. So that occurred. throughout the 50s during the YouTube program and through the 60s, up to 64,

when we actually deployed the 812, originally, mid-60s, I would say. So that's what the seminar was about up until then. Up until then, yeah. And so, yeah, he said, but 1 in 10, Gerald Kay Haynes said 1 in 10 were UFOs. We have case files of real UFOs, but 1 in 10 sightings. were actual UFOs. That's a high number.

That's 10%. Yeah. Yeah. And so going back and thinking about, wow, you know, the CIA knew there was something up there that were real UFOs. And this is like more of the public side of CIA. It's still classified side of CIA, but not the program side of CIA. Yeah. Yeah, it's not deep.

It's not deep. It's just interesting information that. you saw a UFO and that 10% of them couldn't be explained. Yeah. So the second part of that discussion was about beings. That there were aliens. There were actual aliens and that they were able to collect DNA from aliens. And that's when they discovered, and it just didn't happen in 47, happened later.

Probably they had tissue samples or whatever that they've stored, and they were able to recover DNA. And when we discovered how to sequence the human genome, we sequenced the alien DNA, and we discovered that, oh, there are markers in there that look very human, human hybrids. That what looks like an alien has, for some reason, has human genetic markers in their DNA.

and the genome. And so I found that to be interesting. And to answer your question, that's when I thought, this sounds pretty classified to me. This is coming from a CIA historian. His CIA historian, yes. Like, that comes with some weight behind it. This isn't going to a UFO conference and, you know, somebody like me going up there and

talking about hybrids. This is an official CIA historian with background, with checked credentials, with clearances telling a group of other individuals from universities, from different departments in the defense intelligence agencies about hybridization programs. Right. And I would say this. I would preface that with like, I don't think there were other members of the intelligence community there. I think there were only CIA officers and these postdoc folks that we sponsored. Do you think now, we're going to go more into this hybrid thing because I want to hear what they had to say about that.

I think it's very fascinating. But do you think at any point before we get into this that you might have been led into some weird honey trap situation where they give you passage material? Do you think that that? Because I know a lot of the audience is going to be like, oh, maybe this is a whole setup or something. Did that ever ever feel? Never cross my mind. Never crossed my mind. No.

Yeah. It didn't feel like that at all. all. Okay. Not at all. Because when there's passage material, we actually read into the passage material. And my explanation of that is this, that I was involved in some covert programs. And it required me to be overseas undercover with a different name, different, complete, different biography, complete different history. I was sent overseas with actual documents. and I was told that if you're stopped, even by, you know, customs

when you're coming back in the United States or the other customs of the foreign country you're going to, that we want you to have a cover story. You have to have a cover legend, and you can use these cover legends depending on the circumstance. So I was given the passage material to pass on.

And also, I would say that because of the nature of that symposium, I discount it. that completely because of who was there. Understood. And what was everyone else's reaction to this news? I was surprised that there was no reaction. Huh.

And I didn't even have a reaction. I just took it all in. I thought to myself, hmm, sounds a little classified to me, but I was interested in what Gerald Haynes has to say about the hybridization, alien DNA, CIA's interest in aliens. Okay. Let's get into this a little bit more because now. Now this is becoming very, very interesting because this connects with so many other stories of, you know, experiencers and everything else. So the CIA is basically giving this presentation in an unofficial, sorry, in an unclassified capacity about sequences in the DNA of the Roswell aliens that are connecting human DNA.

I assume they were Roswell aliens. I would say they were non-humans. They were non-humans. Whether they were collected from the Roswell crash or other retrievals, I don't know. Okay. But the interest, the key phrase that Gerald Haynes used was since World War II, after World War II, we were interested in alien DNA, particularly found in humans. At that time, I didn't know anything about magenta, had no knowledge of magenta of that craft and that retrieval, had no knowledge that we may have had the craft itself with, as David Rush would call biologics on board. But he said after World War II.

So that in hindsight makes sense that, okay, maybe, you know, that's where it came from or other retrievals where there were beings on board. Yeah, because allegedly the crash in Italy in Magenta, which happened in 33, wasn't sent to the United States until Pope Pius agreed to send it in 45. Yeah, 44, 44, 45. So that would have been what he was talking about. But didn't, and maybe I'm mistaken here, but I heard, and this is uncorroborated evidence, or speculative of the best, but that the beings on board of the magenta craft were humanoid looking. They were like. tall blondes, so I hear. Was that at all mentioned during the symposium? No. Was the type of alien mentioned? No.

Okay. In my mind, I was thinking of the traditional, I'll call traditional gray being. That's what I had in my mind. But, no, he didn't mention exactly what kind of being. But what he said about their interest, CIA's interest in these beings. and human DNA in their genome was what I call. Because what he said afterwards rang all kinds of like, oh, this sounds really classified.

And that was CIA had a program to trace this alien DNA in certain families in the United States. And he mentioned a particular region that this research occurred in the northeast United States. He won't go any further than that. That certain families, and particularly their children,

aware of interest to CIA. I didn't know what to make of it back then. But you start talking about the gate program and subsequent studies of children and their capabilities and their abilities to do certain cyanic things. That now comes to my mind since that was brought out more recently. So the CIA was interested in potentially tracking the activity of hybrids, human alien hybrids in the United States.

That and going back in their lineage. In their lineage. Right. And going back in their ancestry as well. I don't know how they collected this DNA. You know, we have oversight now, and that oversight started in the mid-70s, congressional oversight. This sounded like it occurred before there was congressional oversight because you couldn't do that today.

Yeah, now it would be illegal. Yes, completely. So this may have occurred earlier. Right. That they were interested. And then when we developed in the 90s, we developed the ability to sequence the human genome completely, that may have furthered the... investigation into the alien DNA.

Has there ever been, and feel free to answer this with a one-word answer, has there ever been a situation that you were in where you've gotten confirmation of the government's involvement with human-alien hybrids? Yes. Okay. And from a credible source, you can say. Yes. Okay.

So they know about the hybrids. Yes. Okay. And you would, I mean, gun to your head right now, you would say absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. Wow. That's, I mean, that's something that's, you know, my mind races to all the different cases that I hear, right?

we hear about so many, so many, so many people talk about this and so many researchers look into this from Bud Hopkins and David Jacobs to, you know, John Mac and John Carpenter

and all these researchers who've looked into abduction phenomena, experiencers, and the one thing that a lot of people I think find interesting is the interaction with these human-like aliens.

Yes. For lack of a better term. Now, Now, is there anything else during that symposium that might have, you know, caught your attention about the human hybrid program? Not about that program itself, other than the fact of the interest and the further investigation into family lineages that certain families sent to have a propensity for this hybridization who have occurred. On behalf of the NHA. Let's be clear here. Like this hybridization that we're talking about isn't humans taking...

No, no. It's like maybe in their family's history, they were taken. Right. And then their DNA. DNA may have been somehow enhanced. I don't know what were to use. Altered. Altered.

I'm speculating here. Sure. I admit this is speculating. I don't know how they do it. I'm not versed in anything to do with genetics. I'm not a scientist about genetics. I don't know. But it seems to have been a history of certain families having certain DNA of interest now to CIA

because of the alien connection to that DNA. Do you – are some of these families aware, do you think? I don't know. Okay. Wow. Now, on a perhaps related note, and again, let me know how comfortable you feel about talking about this, but you've had experiences. Yes. Yeah.

From a young age. Yes. If you're willing, would you be willing to open up a little bit about what those experience were like and what the interactions were like? Sure. Okay. My first, I wouldn't say it's an experience in a traditional sense of experiencers with non-humans. But my first inclination occurred when I was four years old. I saw through a telescope for the first time in my young life.

And I was fascinated by what I saw, stars, planets, the moon. And I felt like I belonged out there, not here. I had this feeling of longing to go out there, because that, That's my home. I don't know why I'm here at a young age. And then I recall being taken somewhere. And it seemed like I don't know if it was a dream or it actually occurred, but I was taken repeatedly, at least three times that I know of,

to a home. And this home was like set in a Victorian kind of, setting. You know, it's not like a modern home in, I would say, late 50s, early 60s. It wasn't the late 50s, early 60s rancher that everyone seemed to have lived in back in that time. But this was a Victorian home in the sense that, you know, it had the turret on one side and wrap around porch. It looked like something from the 1890s, early 1900s. And I was led by a woman, not my mother, going through the gate. It was fendent. through the gate to the house on the porch, and then she led me to a room on the left-hand side, and there was a doctor's office. And so I remember being examined, undressed, examined by a doctor, accompanied by a nurse, not the woman who took me, but another nurse.

And everything around there looked very old, like something from vintage, let's say, like maybe from the Victorian era. and I remember vaguely of being injected by something that there was a hyperdermic needle involved in a syringe and then being dressed again and being let out of the house again by the same woman it took me and then that memory would like fade

and this memory happened twice on the first floor and once on the second floor. Similar situation. I asked my mother about, you know, did she take me to the doctor and said, no, I never took you to anything like that. That was my very first memory. And then other memories I had was being in a early 1960s department store.

They were called Five and Dimes back then. And it was a bin of books, and I love books. So my parents, they wouldn't buy me toys, but if I wanted a book, I can get a book anytime I want. on it. So I was thumbing through these books. And one book I opened, I recalled vividly, as I opened this book on this page, on the lower left-hand side, there was a drawing of a caveman and a cave woman holding a human baby up. The woman was holding a human baby up. And above that baby was a flying, what we would call a flying saucer, beaming a light on it.

And I received a message saying, this is who you are, this is where you came from. And I said, I want this book. So close the book, put it in a place that I get it. There was very few people around. And there was just a random book there. And I went to get my mother. I said, I want this book.

And went to the same book, Ben, couldn't find a book. Disappeared where I laid it. There was no one around to pick that book up. it for themselves. That was another experience I had of some kind of messaging occurring. And this wasn't a dream. This was an actual,

I remember this happening. And then just feeling like I lived before. I had past lives before. At a young age. At a young age. And then seeing my first craft when I was with my cousins.

My uncle was in the U.S. Army. He's a Japanese American, and he fought in the 442nd combat regiment team. That was the Japanese American unit that fought in Italy. And he was in the Army, and we lived, my sister and I lived with them as we were waiting for our mother to come from Japan. This was like 1958-59, playing with my two cousins and our neighbor children here. and I saw off to the right, there were some woods, at this army base. It was called Fort Lee at the time in Petersburg, Virginia,

and I saw this silvery craft rise up out of the trees. Very quiet. I pointed to it, showed my cousins, and pointed to the neighbor children, look at there, look at theirs, you know. I saw it playing, and they couldn't see a thing. They couldn't see it. They couldn't see it.

It wasn't a dirigible or anything like that because no propulsion. There was no gondola underneath. What was the shape? Like an oval. Yeah, like an oval. Yeah. Huh. Yeah.

And it was just rising slowly and just drift off. But they couldn't see it. And I saw it as plain as can be that it's an actual object. They couldn't see it. That was my first craft sighting, the structured craft. How old were you then? I was five, five years old. Wow.

And you remember that, vividly. Vivently, vividly remember that. Now, the examination that I described, the medical examination, that occurred when I was around six. And the past life experiences were around seven. Okay. And after that past life experience at seven, I started getting feelings of like, I kind of knew where my, my future life would be like. Hmm.

You know, I had an interest in being in the Navy. I'm going to join the Navy. See the world. I want to join the Navy. And then in junior high school, we had to write an essay on what you want to be when you grow up kind of thing. And I said, I want to be a spy. And I thought I was going to be a spy, even at that age. And things fell in a place in my life where one after the other things started

occurring, not because I planned them, but it was the free will path I took happened to coincide with what I felt. Yeah. I didn't realize it would lead me there, but everything I did led up to my career at CIA and all the things I experienced professionally and personally while I was at CIA. Do you think that was a path that was laid out for you, or is that a path that you laid out for yourself on some subconscious level. I would say that I laid it out for myself. I feel like I practice free will. The opportunities were presented to me. I took those opportunities. And so taking those opportunities, it led me to where I needed to be. So you manifested it. I would say, yeah. Manifested it, but not consciously, not to the point that, oh, yeah, I'm going to study these subjects in school, and I'm going to do this and I'm going to do that because I want that job. That didn't

happened. Things fell into place where that occurred. Okay. Yeah. I mean, that makes a lot of sense to me. We, you know, we talked a little bit about this at lunch too where I also feel that that there's like, almost like a future memory. Like, it's so clear. It almost seems like a memory, but it's like this vision and it just seems sort of like friction-free in your, in your way to get there. So, yeah, that makes a lot of. of sense to me. So, okay, in junior high, and then any other run-ins subsequent to this? Well, when I was in the Navy, I happened to sign up for a particular rate, as we call them in the Navy, a particular job, and trade for it dealing with electronics, electronic warfare, signals analysis.

basically, by electronic warfare on ships. And that led me to my very first, you know, clearance. I had a secret level clearance. And I also was put on the personal reliability program, PRP, because the ships back then, destroyers and frigates, carried nuclear weapons on board. I see. And so I was a guard for nuclear weapons.

That was one of my collateral duties was to guard nuclear weapons. And it was there that, you know, on my first ship, a movie came out. It was called Three Days of a Condor. Starting Robert Redford and I forget the actress's name. I know people out there are screaming the name, but I'll fade down away. Oh, okay. Yeah.

Robert Refford and Fade Don away. And, of course, the story was that Robert Redford was a CIA officer working as a researcher of open source materials, trying to discern whether the open source materials may have contained classified information and that little station got wiped out as the story goes and so forth and so on but it was during the course of that movie I was with my other shipmates watching the movie

there was some very attractive women behind us maybe a row or two behind and there was a scene where Robert Rifford picked up the phone and called the operator at Langley and played back some tones. And the Langley operator said, okay, that number is. Da-da-da-da-da-da. And I thought, that was so cool.

And the women behind us, very attractive, saying, that is so cool. That is so awesome. And I go, that's my job. I need a job that women find cool. And so, you know, at that time, I wasn't thinking, you know, in terms of, you know, joining CIA because that's what I wanted to do. Sure.

But it was just, I'm excited with that. Yeah. That's what I wanted to do. And I told my shipmates, you know, I'm going to be in CIA someday. And they laughed at me. Oh, sure you are. No, no.

You know, I see myself walking down the hallways of CIA. Wow. I see it. I visualize it. I can see that happening. And eventually it turned out that way, you know, that what I did in the Navy was of interest to CIA to the point that my senior year in college at George Washington University, a major in political science. There was an ad in the Washington Post recruiting military SIGN personnel.

If you did signals intelligence in the military, call us, write to us. We're interested in hiring you. And I responded to that ad. And that set in motion the process of applying for that particular job in CIA. Wow. So during your time at the CIA, I mean. I mean, 25 years a long time, John. That's a long time.

Not really. No, there have been other officers who served 30, 40 years. Okay. But 25 years seems to be the average limit. If you ask Lou Elizondo, 25 years. Jim Simovand, 25 years. That's right. That's me, 25 years.

That's about as much as I would say you can stand. Okay, well put. But that does seem like a long time to be at a particular office that deals with. so much sensitive information. You know, it's like drinking out of a fire hose every day. Like, you got all this stuff that you have to compartmentalize, you have to judge whether or not, you know, there's, there's so many variables and so many things on the line, including people's lives and everything else. So it's a big responsibility. But out of those, in that 25 years, did you encounter anyone within the agency that you knew for sure,

was read into one of the deeper programs. Yes. Okay. Did you have a lot of interactions with this person? Yes, I did. You did. And was there any point, were there groundbreaking, was there groundbreaking information given to you by these?

No, because I refused to get that groundbreaking information. Other than the gentleman's name is Pete. Okay. His first names is Pete. He was in my parent office. He was the subject matter expert responsible for gathering other subject manner experts of then CIA to go to the work or working group. Mm-hmm. And he wanted to read me in, and I said, I'm not that interested.

The other person, well, his name is Perry. Hi, there, Perry. I can say that he was CIA's UAP task force liaison officer. I see. He is the David Gresh equivalent for CIA. Wow. And I know that he's led TVY or temporary duty trips to Area 51 from this one particular branch that seems to deal with this subject matter. And I don't want to call out the branch names.

I think it's still active. but it's in my parent office. It was in my parent office. And so it was him. And he was Air. And then it was undersea. There's another gentleman. His first name is Ken.

That's initial M. So Perry O and Ken M. He was under C. And the undersea guy, I was supposed to be read into what I now known as N-U-R-O, the National Under-C-E-R-E-O, the National Under-C, or underwater reconnaissance office. It's the undersea equivalent of NRO.

And there's a program I can say out loud because it's already been revealed and naval special programs, NSP. And that originally started way back one of my Eeylant chiefs preceding me. His name was Gene Potete, Eugene Potit, a legend at CIA and in the intelligence community. and he started something called Palladium,

the Palladium program as part of that undersea thing. They were releasing objects from submarines that would look like craft from the submarine. Whoa. That was the Palladium program. It was designed to be a countermeasure against radars. I see to throw them off the scent type deal?

Yeah, I think so. Okay. Yeah, and I think the Palladium program is pretty well documented now. It's no longer classified, I don't think. I think you can search it and find out more information about it. But he was the control officer for that particular Pentagon SAP, Special Access Program. Now, special access programs, that's the Department of Defense. If someone tells me I was a CIA officer and I was in charge of a sap, I know that person is lying because there are no saps at CIA.

There are caps. the controlled access programs. So the ODNI and CIA have caps. The Department of Defense have SAPs. And he was the SAP representative for that Pentagon program due with undersea things. Well, that guy knows stuff.

That guy knows stuff. And he said the Pentagon, my name was submitted for that particular compartment. And the Pentagon came back and said, no, we're not going to reach John Ramirez into that. No way. and he called me up. And he said, I can't read you in.

The Pentagon said, you cannot be read in. You specifically. You specifically cannot be read in. Was it because of your previous interest in? That's what I think. Yeah, it seems like that's... I definitely think they looked at my security file. In my security file, every five years we get reinvestigated.

Uh-huh. And every five years, we go through the same line of questioning. And you got a little notch on it. And, yep, there's a checkmark. It's a little alien drawing besides. What are your hobbies? What do you like to do? What interests you?

And I said, I'm interested in UFOs. And one of my things I like to do is listen to Art Bell and Costa Coast A.m. I love that stuff. You know, that's what I'm interested in. Giant red flag. That was in my security profile. That was my interest. And I reported that several times.

Also in my security profile was the fact that I attended UFO conferences on my own. Yes. This is because I had a personal interest and I paid my own. on way for flights, hotels, accommodations. The only thing I needed was CIA's permission. And so in the Office of Security at CIA, there was something called the External Activities Branch. External Activities Branch, anytime you go overseas or take a trip or out of the Washington,

D.C. area, you have to report yourself. No matter what. No matter what. You can go on a vacation, Hawaii. Yeah. And you're out of the Washington, D.C. area. you have to report the fact that you're going on this vacation. It's like the CIA's version of TSA.

Yeah. That's a good way to put it. Okay. Before there was a TSA, there was CIA external activities. Gotcha. You had to report. And if you don't report, and later it comes up in a reinvestigation that you went on this trip and you didn't report, you can get in a lot of trouble. Hmm. Okay.

What else did you not report? See, that's the line of questioning. They go when you withhold information from CIA during a re-investigation. They want to know why did you do that? Interesting. What else did you not report? What else are you hiding? Yeah.

So it behooves you to think like, like you're in a confessional booth and confess all your sins to mother's security or father security. You know, obviously, forgive me for my sins. Yeah. And they probably have all that now with telephones anyways. Like, I mean, it's probably gotten way more sophisticated. Right, right. Right. So, yeah.

So they knew about that. And so that I think that's why I wasn't. allow to be read into that particular compartment. But it has to do with undersea stuff. And I know that that particular branch that Ken was in did some interesting things under the water. You know, underwater comes up more and more. I mean, obviously there's a book that I'm just starting to read now by Richard Dolan. He put out on the history of U.S.Os.

And, you know, formerly I was also looking into this. alleged whistleblower that came forward on one of these forums talking about mobile construction units underwater, fast-moving large objects. And then we hear things, you know, from Lou, like him or not. You know, he said this multiple times and that's been corroborated by other people, including a rear admiral Tim Gallaudet. Right. You know, he said, yeah, there are these massive objects down there moving at four or five hundred knots. Right. Which is very fast.

Yes. And so when Ken was explaining why the Pentagon. didn't want me to be read, and I was arguing why it should be read, he said, you don't understand, John. This program is the highest secret, top secret in the entire United States government. This top secret information exceeds that of Manhattan Project. And he mentioned Manhattan Project by name, exceeds the Manhattan Project. And the Pentagon doesn't want you to be read. Whoa.

So, okay. That's in this specific underwater one. Mm-hmm. That makes a lot of sense. And I knew about the, we use fast attack submarines for spying. Everyone knows that. Some rings are great reconnaissance vehicles, but it has nothing to do with reconnaissance. Mundane, prosaic reconnaissance of an adversary submarine.

No, not when you're talking about something bigger than the Manhattan project. It's bigger than a Manhattan project. And that's the key phrase that it was his way of. telling me what this program was about without saying what the thing is about. Yeah, it's UFOs. Yeah, well, it's something anomalous under the sea. Let's put it that way. Well, it's either that or a cracking.

Right. You know that his branch did operations under the sea retrieving things. Now, just to be fair, it could be. Submarines, aircraft. Yeah, it could be adversary undersea. Satellites. Stuff. Yeah.

You know. Rockets. Yeah. But there's something, I can't mention the name. but I know the people who worked there in that particular program. And if I said the names, you would say, huh. I see. I'm not going to say the names.

Not on this broadcast. And I won't pry it out of you. But one thing that is interesting that I, you know, often come back to as well as Bob Lazar was, you know, sort of working for what seemed like some type of naval department. Yeah. Or at least the facade was it was. it was the Naval, you know, Office of Naval Intelligence or Department of Naval Intelligence, which doesn't exist.

There is an Office of Naval Intelligence. Yeah. There isn't a Department of Naval Intelligence. But I will tell you this, that when I was at CIA, I had a cover legend that I could use when I go on TDYs to conferences or whatever. And I was assigned to a Pentagon office that did not exist. And I had an ID card with my photo on it and everything looks like a real legitimate Pentagon. identification. And there was on the flip side of that, there was a signature of my supervisor, a phone number to call, all this stuff. And if you call that phone number and ask about me, because

my true name was on the front of that cart by pitcher, do you have John Ramirez working for you? And person to answer will verify the fact that I worked for that Pentagon office. When you, in fact, did not. When in fact I did not. Yeah. So talking about Bob Lazare, he could be in a similar situation where he was assigned to a. non-existent cover office that look legitimate. Sounds the same. Yeah. To the untrained eye, to someone who's not well versed in the Department of Defense, that

looks legit. Yeah. You know, and the reason why I use that card is so I can get government rates for hotels and flights. Yeah. You know, that's how we used it. And it was something to flash. It's a flash ID to make you look legitimate.

Right. And in Bob's case, I mean, obviously, if you're dealing with. dealing with something as immense as reverse engineering ET craft, no surprise that you would have some type of legend or cover or flash ID. I mean, that feels like the minimum amount of security that they would require. Yeah, it's very light. I mean, if you scratch beneath the surface, it'll fall apart. But the idea was not to gain entry into another government or Pentagon base because I have something called a KAC card. common access card that we were given.

And so I could use that card to get into a DoD facility. And people in the DoD would know what a CAT card is. I don't know if they still use them, but I was assigned one. And so it made me look like a Pentagon employee even though I wasn't. Yeah. But this was a little bit in depth. You know, this was a real card that could give me access into actual facilities. Right.

I mean, on par for being a spy, I think, you know. which is I would expect something like that if I were like, where's my secret ID? Let's shift a little bit into something. First, I want to ask, just like off the top of my head, just something I'm really interested in. Has there ever been any talk stories or anything that you can share on Wright-Patterson Airfield that you heard by the water coolers?

Not when I was the CIA. I heard more about Wright-Pat after. I left CIA and got involved in this topic. I see. At all. Back then, right, Pat, you know, it was Air Force Base, and I dealt with the foreign technology division, and then it was called NASIC. I had a few names in between. One was NAC, NAC, NAC, but that only lasted shortly, and then they added space to air, national air and space intelligence center.

And I dealt with counterparts there. Okay. But never anything. Not to do with UFOs. Okay. No, it was mostly my day job of dealing with Soviet and Russian missile tests. Right. There was a meeting that was had, and we'd mentioned this earlier, Braddock Dun & McDonald, BD,D,M.

Mm-hmm. Something interesting happened there as well. Right, that wasn't a meeting. That was me being briefed into a two compartments. Mm-hmm. And so I was this, this goes back to my radar, my beloved. It's COVID radar. Now, use the Russian name for it. It's Neiman, N-E-M-A-N-A-N-A-N-P-P, P, stands with Polygon.

Okay. Neiman Polygon. It's a very unique radar. It's very sophisticated. It's probably still the most sophisticated waveforms ever seen coming out of a radar. And I've seen a lot of different things coming out of radar. Highly capable, extremely advanced radar. And so we were flying something that wasn't a satellite or wasn't a conventional satellite. It was a very unique spacecraft. And the spacecraft had a like a radar warning receiver in a car that, you know, if the police are a police car sitting by the road, you know, with a radar gun, want to see what your speed limit. You can detect it is. you can detect it.

So this craft had a similar type of system that if it was illuminated by a radar, it would detect that illumination. And actually it would collect some of the parameters of that radar. So you can further, it's not just a blip, you know, you can further identify it by looking at the parameters and you can match it to known signals.

So I was read into this spacecraft and that subsystem that detected the signals, as well as the intelligence collected by that particular spacecraft. It's dealt with intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance. But it didn't look like a satellite. What did it look like? It looked like an egg. Tapered.

Now, that's interesting. Yeah, it wasn't a cylinder like a tick-tack, but it was-tear-drop? Teardrop. shape with tapered ends. So obviously when we mention egg, there's a lot of cases in the past, and I've looked at a lot, even in Spain and like all sorts of cases around the world with like eggcraft, even going back to Lonnie Zamora and his, you know, uh, uh, uh, Sikora New Mexico citing.

But one thing that does come to mind is this Jake Barber video of the alleged recovery. Now, what I find interesting here, is that BDM, Braddock Dun & McDonald, went through several acquisitions. Yeah. And in 2002, they were acquired by Northrop Grummond. There's a lot of talk that the range that this egg was collected from was on Northrop's range. Do you think that Jake Barber is aware that the craft that he collected was ours? I can't say it was ours or N.H.I.

Right. I just know that the craft I was briefed into could not have landed. Because it was a spacecraft and it orbited. It was an orbital craft that flew into space, collecting intelligence. And I don't think it could land. Didn't have any landing gears or capabilities. I don't think, if it was deorbited, it would burn up in the atmosphere. like anything else coming back from orbit into the Earth's atmosphere, it will just burn up.

Mm-hmm. So I don't think it was retrieved in that sense. It could not have been retrieved. And I may be wrong. Mm-hmm. Well, yeah, I just find it really interesting that there's this giant coincidence. Yeah, yeah. Do you know what I mean?

That we're talking about an eggcraft. We're also talking about the same location, the same company that deals with, this, this all seems a little bit too, you know, closely next. I would say this, that if you saw, and I saw the photographs of this particular. particular spacecraft in a hangar. Oh. I didn't see the spacecraft itself. They showed me this is what it looked like. This is what it looks like.

This is what it can do. This is why we built it, and this is why we're interested in finding out whether it can be detected. Because it's supposed to be stealthy in nature. It shouldn't have been tracked by anything, yet it was indicated, but based on the data I saw, that it was being tracked by the Russians. using this fantastic radar I talked about, Neiman P. So I don't think it was,

I don't think Jake Barber's video, I don't know what the source of that was. I don't know if that was the actual craft that he was responsible for retrieving. I don't know, but one thing, what I was briefed in could not have entered the Earth's atmosphere and land like that.

Intact. It would have burned up. Right. And the craft that you saw that they showed you, that was manmade? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It was definitely, well, let's put it this way. It was built by humans. I have no idea what technology was inside the craft other than I know that there was this radar warning component in it, and I know it took pictures. And I know that it wasn't supposed to be detected.

Okay. Well, that's just interesting there. Another question that I had, I'm going to run through a few of these questions that I've been holding off on here while we've been chatting. Have you heard of Tim Taylor? Yes, I have. Yeah, have you ever had a run in with him? Have you ever talked to him? No. Okay.

No, I don't think I have. I had a LinkedIn pro account for a while. Tim Taylor, I think he may have reached out to me, but I didn't really reciprocate. I think he just sent a hello message. Okay. How hi, how you're doing kind of thing. This was after I started doing my earlier podcast interviews. Yes.

And he'd come back. So he was interested in perhaps talking to you. Maybe. I don't know, but we didn't follow through. And so I can't say that I know him in anyway. Mm-hmm. And where does remote viewing and that stuff fall in? Which category?

That's Mazint. That's Mazint as well. I would put it in a Mazant because there's a branch of Mazant that is like biological Mazant or biological Mazant. Biometric Mazin. Biometric Mazin. And a human brain Mazin is a real thing. Its signatures coming from the human brain.

Whoa. And so that... They can measure that? Yeah, you can... I mean, Stanford University is... Yeah, but I mean, do you think they still do it? I would think so, yeah. So there...

I think it's still a field of study. Because humans had magnetic sense at one time. just like whales and cessations. You know, they could sense magnetic field changes in the earth, and these creatures use it to navigate. And every time there's some disruption, solar flares, or whatever,

that causes the disruption, they get lost, and they beach themselves. Right. Because they get lost. And the humans, they detected that we have a dormant capability of doing that. Whether it's dormant or it was made dormant,

deliberately, I don't know. That's a whole other area discussion. But humans had that, or still do, a dormant sense of Earth's magnetic field. Also, your human skin is a

massac collector in that the sweat glands are helical antennas. So underneath your skin, there are little helical antennas and they act like electromagnetic antennas. And they could measure the wavelength

that your skin is is able to detect. It's up in the like 400, 500 gigahertz range up there, a millimeter wave, they call it. But, you know, you think about how to affect a human being, zap them with that range of signals. And they start sweating? Start doing all kinds of things.

Or you can do acoustic signatures, acoustic signals. You can make somebody sick. Or, and we're just extraordinary. dream. You can make them, you can make them vomit. Oh my God. Because, you know, your, your abdominal cavity is a resonance there in the audio range. And if you hit it with that audio range, you know, all of a sudden things in there starts the quiver and you get physically sick. Well, if the people watching this video, don't leave a like and a comment, I'm going to play one of those sounds. Yeah. Yeah. And it goes back to AHA, you know, the anomalous health

incidents. Yeah, yeah. With Havana syndrome. They're probably utilizing that type of human Mazat as a weaponized version of it, the offensive side of it, not just collecting it, which is more defensive and passive, but using it to affect another human being. Yeah, and it would be an incredible shame to do all those studies, you know, whether it's M.K. Ultra and Stargate and all these things after decades and decades and finding that, oh,

there is something here, there is something, and then just dropping it. Yeah. It seems so ridiculous, like, especially because all of that stuff, to me, seems incredibly cheap. It's not something that's very expensive. You know, you give a guy a piece of paper and a pencil or a woman and sit them in a room with no windows. I mean, that doesn't cost millions of dollars. What is one piece of information that you think everyone should know? This is where we're going to talk about consciousness.

consciousness seems to be the foundation for the phenomenon. That is how humans perceive the phenomenon and how the phenomenon perceives humans. There seems to be a consciousness aspect to this. Aside from the nuts and bolts, even though JPs may not have any nuts or bolts on the craft, but we call it that, but the structured craft, aside from the structured craft, that's just physics, that's just mechanical engineering, that's just material science. That can be all figured out. But how it works, there seems to be a consciousness aspect to it that we don't quite understand.

And I'm hearing that more and more, particularly the way the phenomenon communicates with certain individuals, and the way individuals can communicate with the phenomenon. So you have the human initiated contact, you know, the heist. You can have that, are using psionics as Jake Barber's team is doing to lure the craft down. That's a real thing because the Russians have already done it. Do you think that that's – because that to me sounds so insane because I just struggle with that concept. Because if you were an intelligent species – arguably vastly more intelligent than the people who are quote unquote summoning you or inviting

you um fool me once shame on you but fool me twice shame on me like i these aren't fish these are intelligent things surely they know that if they get in range they're going to be taken down by some microwave cannon like i mean i'd i'd be hard pressed to think that these intelligent beings would be willing to put themselves in a situation a second time to be drawn in. And to me, this, you know, only my opinion, but seems like we might be interacting with some type of system, rather, because if you simulate war games and these things start appearing, that doesn't seem like an intelligently controlled thing that were, it seems like a system. It seems like some type of immune response to our games that we're putting out there, you know.

Because, again, I don't think. So that's where I struggle with all of that. But you said that the Russians are doing this? Well, the Russians have done it. Yeah. They've done what Jake Barber is doing now. They've already done it. Where does that information come from?

It comes from a major general in the Russian Air Force retired. He said that they were able to lure UAP down. Hmm. And then when it came down, they were able to interact with the AP just by body movements and thought. Okay. And lure them in how? Using psionics or using nukes? No, not nukes.

No, it was like they were using electromagnetic signals. Uh-huh. Frequency and... Yeah, certain frequencies. I would say that 3 gigahertz is a magic frequency for some reason. they respond to 3 gigahertz. The radar I talked to you about before Neiman P.

That is an S-band radar. It works just below 3 gigahertz. It's a very wide-band signal below 3 gigahertz. It seems to be... Oh, and the craft followed by the RB47 that the late Dr. James McDonald wrote about, the RB-47 being a reconnaissance

aircraft, they detected with their onboard signals collection systems a 3 gigahertz signal coming from that. Oh. That they followed. The, there were two radars at White Sands testing the V2 and those radars, the SCR 587, they were called. It's a 3 gigahertz signal. Interesting.

So 3 gigahertz for some reason seems to be the magic wavelength. frequency rather. Yeah, or dog whistle. Yeah, maybe. I don't know. But according to this major general, Alexaev, they were able to lure down these craft and interact with them. Interesting. I mean, I'd like to see it happen.

Yeah. And I wish them the best. I hope that this is, you know, something that can be made public and can be shared with everybody. Yeah. And I have classified sources documenting. interactions. That type of interaction, but I can't talk about it because... It's classified.

Well, it is classified, and I kind of alluded to it in previous interviews. I laid it all out for the Age of Disclosure film that I did not appear in, but I participated in the making of that film. They ran up against the time constraint, and so they had to cut four hours down to something that would fit at the southwest of southwest. conference, yeah. And so I was able to collaborate, corroborate that, what they did and explained it a little further, but I'm hesitant to do it now,

because that film provided us with a cover, top cover, that if I say that when there's now Secretary of State on there and senators and congresspeople and these other high-level officials, like Jim Clapper, all saying things like that. Yeah. I felt more comfortable saying that.

Are you referring to the incident with the red cube? I don't know about the red cube. No? No. The giant cube? Mm-mm. Okay. I don't know about that.

I saw that movie, the age of disclosure, and that was mentioned in there. Yeah. I didn't know anything about it. I hadn't seen a film. Okay. I just know what I said in two hours, two plus hours that I talked. My goodness. Yeah.

Those would be good podcasts to release as well, I'm sure, in their entirety. Yeah. All right, John, we're going to hop to some audience questions. Thanks so much for indulging all of my questions, but we're going to get to some interesting audience questions. Do you want to give me a second? I'm going to turn on that camera back here. So for the people that don't know, if you become a member here on this channel, we refer to you as interns or operatives depending on, you know, what level you opt in on. But you do, as an operative, have the opportunity to ask the guest to question.

These are pre-vetted, and I've selected them. I give everyone 24 hours heads up. And right behind me, these will be the questions. So, oh, this is good. Actually, we were going to touch on this. And we forgot to you. So perfect. What convinced you the 2027 revelation had to be made public despite your background in secrecy from Hobby?

Well, first of all, I didn't bring that up in the environment I talked about. It was a skiff. There were government officials there that brought it up. And I didn't give it much thought because 2027 was mostly talked about it in the channeling community. And I don't really follow the channel community in any kind of depth. Yeah, like Bashar recently talks about it a lot. Right. And I'm surprised that there are talking about it. But that question did come up. That discussion came up. And I'm telling you what I told them is I have no idea. I don't know. The channelers about ask Chris Bledso, ask Anjali Schultz. Any channel or, you know, just talk to them. They seem to know something. I don't.

But they press me for my opinion. And it's just an opinion, right, of something that is out in social media. Sure. All right? So it's not secret in any sense. Yeah. It's just a topic that's coming up in the public domain. So I gave them my opinion and said, well, I don't know.

But what is your hope? What do you hope for in 2027? You know, that kind of phrasing. I said, well, my personal hope is that maybe they'll show up. I don't know. Maybe the NHI would show up in 2027. That's my hope. Let's just call it a year they show up.

The arrival year, let's say. And let's say they do a reality. arrive. Well, wouldn't it be who of you guys in government to start disclosing what you guys know about the phenomenon now, and this is in 2022, five years from now, if they do show up, then people won't be like fearful or surprised or, you know, you won't have this catastrophic revelation coming forward. Prepare now the people, share all the information you can so that if they, the NHIs, show up, then we are prepared for it.

Because I told them, you guys don't control disclosure. They do. They can show up tomorrow. Very true. That's a very good point. What are you going to say then? Oh, shoot. Yeah, we knew about this for like since, you know,

after World War II, we were sorry we didn't tell you about it. We lied to you about it. That's not a good optic there. reveal what you know now. Yeah. So it's not a secret. There's no secret about 2027. So the environment was actually a skiff,

but a skiff is you don't have to have a top secret clearance to walk into a skiff. You can walk into a skiff, but you can only talk about unclassified things in a skiff, right? It's up to top secret. And anything below that, and below that is unclassified. And this is nothing of any kind of classification. hearsay at this point. I would say hearsay is a good way of phrase it.

But I don't know what's going to happen in 2027. The only thing I'm concerned about in 2027 is I'm a big NFL fan. I love American football, right? And I know in 27 that my favorite team, the Washington commanders, will be the host team for the NFL draft in Washington, D.C. in 2027. I plan to be there. So that's a big deal. That's a big deal to me.

So that's what's happening. 2027. You heard it here first. Washington commanders is the host team for the NFL draft in Washington, D.C. in 2027. And I hope to be there. I can tell you for sure. We will not be asking you about 2027 in 2028. So that you can take to the bank. Here's another one here. Don't see who this is from here, but this is many experiences believe entities are angelic or demonic are both true or is one group being lied to in your opinion? I don't label them as angelic or demonic, so I don't know how to answer this. For me, they're just entities that showed up and interacted with me.

I personally had only one, I would call bad, but not demonic, experience. And that experience was with a reptilian-like being that showed up in my condo when I lived in Washington, D.C. Can you talk us through that? Sure. I was really pissed off because it woke me up. And it came toward me and I got up out of the head and started punching it with this right fist, as hard as I can, cursing at it or whatever just because it was bothering me. I wanted to go to sleep. And it grabbed my arm.

And then I have no memory after that, but I woke up in the morning with claw marks on my right forearm. Now, a debunker would say, oh, you just had a nightmare and you scratched yourself. I don't think so. Because after that incident happened on further nights, this happens like I would be woken up around between three and four, let's say three-thirty. And I would look over on one side of the bedroom there, and there would be a cloud, a green cloud, with little white sparkles in that cloud. And I got a sense of protection from it. You know, that, oh, you know, we're here to protect you. Go back to sleep.

You're fine. We're here for protection. And so that was my experience then. And, you know, that didn't last. Eventually that cloud didn't show up. And I never encountered that being again. That's the only, like, somewhat. What was this being wearing?

Was it wearing anything? I don't, no. It may have been a. uniform or something, but I just knew that its face was very much what we would call reptilian. Reptillion. Whoa. It's not like a lizard. It didn't have a snout like a lizard or anything like that.

But it looked like someone who had reptilian DNA or reptilian heritage and their bloodline. It was upright, you know, walking bipedal. Didn't talk to you at all? No. Not telepathically. No, no, no. No, but I definitely was a young scream at it. What was it doing to try and wake you up?

I don't know. I don't know. It was just there invading your space? Invading my space, and that really made me mad. For some reason, I just felt anger at it, but no fear. Well. Other entities that have come up were more benign. I mean, they were just checking up on me.

You've had interactions with separate entities as well. Just two types, that one reptilian, in a T, I would say reptilian. like. Yeah. And the other, I can't identify because it was shrouded. It was wearing a cloak. A hood. A hood. Yeah. A cloak and a hood. How tall? I was lying down that it was like, I would say, like five feet. Okay. You know, nothing, they're not small and they're not super tall. They're not Nordic. Yeah. But it was a shrouded, wearing a cloak, a hood and kind of shrouded. I couldn't see its face. I looked at it as carefully as I could, and I seemed to show some features, but they were more, it seemed like it had like facial features like a humanoid, but not

humanoid, not like what people describe as Nordic, which is very, very human-like. Yeah. It wasn't like that. So human-like, but not quite. Yeah. Huh. Yeah, yeah. And these are the beings that I counted more often. This has happened more than once. Oh, yes. These are my beings that visit me. Really? And the most current time I was visited was in the Tucson area where I live.

I just moved away from Charlotte, North Carolina, moved into the Tucson area. And they showed up one night, and they just woke up and they go, oh, don't mind us. We just want to let you know that we know you moved. And so, you know. Whoa. Creepy. You're fine. We know you moved.

We just want to let you know we know you moved. What are some other interactions that you've had with them? Have they talked to you? Have they given you information? Not really. No. They just show up. They just show up and they just, it seemed like I was examined or somehow, you know, they,

I get the feeling we're just checking up on you. To go back to sleep, you're fine. We're just checking to see you're fine, you know. That kind of thing. It's almost like monitoring me to see how it was. Do you feel that you were potentially? part of some hybridization program? I don't know.

Does that the feeling you get? All I know is that I used to have nosebleeds a lot, right nostril nosebleeds, been having them since childhood. And I just thought that, you know, I was just susceptible to nosebleeds. Maybe the air is dry or whatever. I never associated it with any kind of NHI kind of cause. But I had that at work at CIA. and I was reaching, my nose started bleeding at work,

and I had a box of tissues on the top shelf in my cubicle. I was reaching for that. Chairs had wheels, office chairs, rolled back, and I landed flat on my back, and my coworkers were shocked. I said, oh, my gosh, what happened to John? You know, they called medical, and the protective officers showed up,

uniform protective officers. We call them Spos. security protection officers in uniform, they showed up to escort medical people. I think it was a nurse or something. They put me on a gurney. And off I go to Office of Medical Services on the first floor.

And I was examined by a doctor. First, they took an x-ray. I took an x-ray. And they got the results of the x-ray. And they go, have you ever had a bad accident? I said, no. So it looks like you had an accident. Did you ever have surgery?

No. And then said, well, let's look at your nose. And so I lay back down and they looked at my nose, you know, and they go, have you ever had surgery in your nostril? No. And I said, why do you say that? Because there's a surgical cut deep in your nostril. It is a surgical cut.

as if I was operated on. Whoa. And, oh, there's some debris there. Can we remove that debris? And I'm sure, whatever, do whatever you want. And so let me call my colleagues. So there were two doctors now. And the other doctor, the second doctor, looked in my nose.

Oh, yeah. And then they go off and had a sidebar, leaving me out of the conversation. Is it at the CIA. Yeah, Office of Medical Services. They were talking, sidebar. And they came back and said, yeah, we want, can we want, can we. extract this debris? Sure, go ahead.

Okay. And we'll extract it and then we'll carterize, you know. They did something to a nose. They closed that surgical wound or whatever to stop it from bleeding. I don't know what happened to it at all.

And off they go. They had a sample of whatever they collected. They closed the wound. Didn't have any nosebleeds after that. That's a good news. So here I am retired. We're going to retire. It's in the month of September of 2009, and I had plans to retire on September 30th. That was going to be my last day.

So I was going out checkout list, right? You've got to go here, check out. Even going to the library to make sure you don't owe library funds. Because they find you. If you check out a book from the CIA library and you don't return on time, they find you. Okay. So, yeah, you're clear for that, da-da-da. And so security go there.

Oh, my gosh, you have over two dozen companies. Yeah, yeah, I was in the DS&T. What can I say? People in the DS&T seem to gather a lot of compartments, so forth and so on. And then I went to medical services, and then we're going to check off on that, that I reported to medical services. Then I go, oh, by the way, can I get, I had something done here way back when, and by then it was, oh, by 10 years, have passed. And can I get those records? I said, sorry, your medical records are classified. You cannot have them. Okay. Wait, they classified your own medical records? They told me, you do not have access to your medical records. You do not, that doesn't make sense.

It doesn't make sense. So I couldn't get my medical records because I want to see what they found or is there anything in there. They extracted something. Right. Now, I understand they don't give you your security file at all. That they keep. because when you go through CIA re-investigations, they talk to your friends and colleagues and neighbors, and they do the whole nine yards thing.

Yeah. And there could be detrimental information from a colleague saying, yeah, you know, John likes to drink too much, and I was at a party and he was drunk. You know, there could be stuff like that in there. Not that I drank too much, or any less. Yeah. But, you know, there's detrimental information from your colleagues,

could be friends or whatever, friends. Yeah. So all that's in there. So they keep that. And that's, that's there, I think, for 75 years, I understand. Okay. So, you know, 75 years from 2009, you can look at my security file, maybe, if you foil it.

But my medical records, that wouldn't give me. That's why? So years later, let me advance this story. Jim Semmyvan, I knew that he had an implant, he told me private conversation before I came out in public. This is before I came out in public. I knew he was an experience, and I knew he had that encounter, which he now freely talks about.

So I knew that background of his implants. And I told him my experience. And so he connected me to a former CIA doctor who told me that if you ever mention my name, I'll deny that I know you. Okay, what's his name? I'm not going to mention his name because he'll deny that I know him. So I promise I won't mention your name.

Okay. You get one guess. but, you know, he said, let's talk. I'll get you in touch with him. So this former CIA doctor interviewed me over the phone. I didn't see him or anything, but he interviewed me and we went through my life history and so forth. And he found it interesting that had Cherokee heritage, my great grandmother on my father's side, who's Cherokee, churkey woman. And he said, oh, my gosh, I've got to put you in a special file here.

He said, why's that? He says, well, there's almost a one-on-one correlation between experiencers and two heritages. One is Cherokee Indian. The other is Celtic. And for some reason, experiences who were special operators for the military or intelligence officers, they either have Celtic heritage or Cherokee Indian heritage, and they have experiences with a phenomenon. Well, that's interesting.

Right? So I told them about my, my, um, what they did. And he said, well, here's what you do. You can use my full name. You can, here's my social security number. And here is, um, just tell them that you know me and that, uh, I'm still have a contract or some kind of way to go back to the intelligence community. Sure.

Let them know. and ask them do a hippo waiver that is, you know, that you can release the files and your medical files to a third party, usually another medical professional. Say you wave your hippo and release your files to me, but I won't be able to tell you what's in them. But at least I have it. So, okay.

So that was the end of that story. So he has them? I imagine so, because I did request. John, that's so messed up. Yeah. I don't know. This is your medical file. Yeah, but it's, it's, it's, that's insane.

I can't get my medical files. That makes no sense to me. So I asked Jim Simivans said, were you able to get your medical files? No. Good luck. No. So both of you had implants taken, essentially. Yeah.

Well, Jim is public about his. He knew that, I think it was done by a third party that's not associated with CIA. Right. There's another doctor. Uh-huh. You get one guest for that doctor's name. Who works with the CIA doctor. Okay.

Just gave away who they are, but do you do your own research. I'm not going to mention their names. They ask me not to. But, you know, that's the way he got his removed. And my understanding is his wife had one too and she kept hers in. So implants are real. Yeah. Implants are real.

That's one thing to take away. Yeah. It's not a conspiracy theory and hybrids are real. That's not a conspiracy theory. And you said, I mean, you saying hybrids are real, that's not a conspiracy theory. That is not based on the symposium that you went to. That is based on other intel that you can't talk about. That's correct.

I cannot talk about that. Okay. I'm going to show you a picture here of, there's this lady that reached out to me. Shout out to Sheila. We had a phone call. And check this out. It looks like a tooth. This is a tooth.

Uh-huh. Wow, how about that? That's in the jawbone. Wow. The dentist who saw this little ditty, and this is clearly, like, that's not a random object. It's got like a little antenna on it or something. I can see that little appendage that looks like an antenna. And the dentist was like floored.

He's like, in my thing. 30 years. I've never seen this. He's like, did you feel it? She's like, no, but I had all these dreams of like these things, you know, taking me and bringing me. And so it started to make a lot of sense for her, but that dentist was like, I don't know what to do with this. And he couldn't, he's like, I could never get that out. Oh, yeah. She still has it. Oh, yeah. Can't get it out. He's a 30-year dentist. He's like, I can't, I would not even try to get that out. It would be incredibly painful and like, yeah. And yet she doesn't feel it. Yeah. It's end. bone itself.

Yeah. That's why. Yeah. She's had multiple x-rays, too. Yeah. And so, yeah, when I see things like that, I go, that's, you know, it's interesting. That's to say the least. All right.

Let's get one more question out of the way here. Last question for you, and then we'll let you go, John. You've been so awesome answering all these questions. Oh, this is cool. This is a cute question from Gina. Yeah, maybe you have an opinion on this. Maybe you don't. What do you think of the authenticity?

of the Lacerda file. Are you familiar with this? I heard of the Lacerda file. I can't claim to be very familiar with it. If you refresh my memory. So it is this guy in Sweden who apparently had a conversation with a reptilian female. Uh-huh. And then she goes into like all sorts of details on physics and interactions with beings or anything.

Are you familiar with that at all? I am not. So I can't answer that question thoroughly. I'm sorry. No, that's fair. I'll give you mine. I think there, I am higher conviction than I was when I was reading it that this might have happened. But that conviction still remains pretty low. It's just higher than it was probably 20% at this point. But really interesting stuff was brought up. If you ever have a chance to look into it, it's fun read. As a piece of fiction, highly entertaining, you know, and if you take it as truth. I mean, obviously, world-shattering. But all right. Well, John, where can people find you? Where can people, not physically, but online? Well, I only have one public social media presence, and that's an X.

Okay. And my X handle, I actually use one of the radars that the X, this is the radar to actually tracked these objects that raise the alert level. These domes of light? Yeah, on the Russian side. It's Petora, P-E-C-H-O-R-A-L-P-A-L-P-A-R-P-A-R-P-A-R-P-A-R. Yeah, it's Petrora-Laged Phase-A-Ray radar. Okay.

And so, yeah, that's the radar that detected UAP and that caused the Deputy Secretary of Defense that wonder what the hell is going on with the Russians. Yeah. What's with this radar? That's a fun, that's a fun Easter egg. Also sounds like a spell in Harry Potter, Pachora Elpar. John Ramirez, you're an absolute gem. It was so nice getting to know you. So nice chatting with you.

Thank you for gracing us with your presence. And being very open and candid with all of your answers, both personal and professionally. I really, really appreciate it. Thank you. Well, you're welcome. And thanks very much for your hospitality here. I love this town that you're in. And it's really lovely.

And I look forward to all of this being over, actually. I mean, I just wish the NHA would do something. Just end it all for us. Just show up. Yeah. I don't know if they will or not. just government disclose something. Well, if you ever talk to any of them, tell them that they got an open spot here on the podcast.

We'd love to have them in the skiff. All right. Thanks, John. Oh, and that's it, sir.