AREA52 - DEBRIEFED With Chris Ramsay - Former PSYOP Operative Studies Psychic Training - Hakim Isler - DEBRIEFED ep. 27

Episode Date: February 28, 2025

atreon Exclusive Content: https://www.patreon.com/Area52investigationsAREA 52 Shop: https://www.1st.shop/collections/area-52Join The Area52 Discord: https://discord.gg/C7ZB5M3qjvRegister for PSI GAMES before February 28th, 2025, and save 20% with code: CHRISRPGI25: https://psigamesinternational.com/More about Hakim: https://www.hakim-isler.com/In this episode, we sit down with an ex-PSYOP operative to discuss the world of psychological operations, remote viewing training, mind sight, and the first-ever Psi Games. We explore how perception can be influenced, the methods behind remote viewing, and the potential of Psi Games to push the boundaries of human intuition and awareness.

Hey, my name is Max. I'm from London and one night when I was about 14, 50 years old, I was in a car with my dad and my sister. We were on the way home from visiting my auntie in the hospital and we were having some argument in the car. There was tears, tensions were high and the middle of the night and we approached what I hit light in the middle. And then one light on each point in the triangle, it was just stationary sat there. And then on the street had a golf ball. I think I could have hit it if I threw it. we were approaching it, went to drive underneath. Everybody in the car shut up. We all saw at the same time.

I said to my dog, did you see that? I tried to ask about it. All right, ladies and gentlemen, today is a very, very, very special episode that I've been looking forward for a long time. It's a long time overdue. I'm joined today by my friend Hakeem Isler. First of all, welcome, Hakeem. Thank you for making it out here. Thanks.

I appreciate it. We've been trying to do this for super long time. Yeah, and it's worked out. It's worked out to now. So I'll give you guys a quick intro on Hakeem. For those of you not familiar with his work, this guy is a polymath. He did 25, studied 25 years of ninjitsu. He was part of the Psiop for the military for several years.

He is a trained remote viewer under some of the best remote viewers that the government had to offer pretty much. And he is also, I mean, you also do mind-sight stuff. Diamond ring. Yes, it is. We'll get into all that. You're into herbs and you're into remedies. He's into survival. He was on, what, two seasons of naked and afraid?

Yeah, two different. Yeah. And to top it all off, like that wasn't enough, he is also putting together the very first edition of the Sci Games. Folks, get ready for this. This is basically the psychic Olympics. There's going to be teams and individuals competing in different categories to find out who the most psychic person or people are. This is taking place in, when's this taking place again?

Is this July? It's August 1st, August 1st, in Charlottesville, Virginia. So if you guys want to check that out, we're going to talk about that a little bit later. I want to get into some other things before we do. But I wanted to drop that at the top because if you guys want more information, there's a link below. And if you sign up, you get 20% off. And I'm going to be there. I'm going to be speaking as well.

So if you want to come say hi, that's a good place to meet me as well. We'll get into that a second because that's very exciting. It is. Groundbreaking. It is. It's super amazing. So I'm really pumped about it and see how it's taking shape and how many people are getting involved. It's birthing itself in a way.

And so, you know, from download to me saying, okay, I'm going to take this on and try it to now it's just, you know, Just snowballing. Amazing. Bigger and bigger. Your private information is probably being sold this very moment. Don't believe me? Well, you're probably being flooded with spam, emails, and calls and texts. And if you're like me, you don't want people knowing where you live or what your financial

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them do what they do. They contact all of these spamming websites and demand that your name be taken off these lists. And if the people refuse, guess what? Incogny keeps demanding until your name is completely gone from all of these nefarious lists on the internet. You've even got a really cool dashboard where it shows you the progress on what's being done, what's in the process of being done, what's already been done. So go to incogny.com slash area 52 or click the link below and use promo code area 52 to save 60% off your annual plan and watch them defend your privacy month after month. All right, we'll get there in a second. First, I want to cover some ground, right? because the one term that you hear probably the most.

All right, and I had to bring on a real sci-op expert here to clarify this because sci-op is thrown around so loosely. Yeah. Especially in the UFO community. Yeah. It's sci-op and grifter and all these other. But sci-op is a specific one. Yeah.

And so I had to clear the air. For all you thinking, I'm a sci-op here, I might be, but he's going to be able to tell you. I love that you're saying sci-op. and not siops. You know, I got smoked when I was, well, we call it smoke when they make you do pushups and sit-ups in the Army if you say something or do something wrong and a way of corrective action. And it comes from when you start to be outside and it's cooler and you get hot and the steam comes off of you, you're being smoked, right?

And so I, we would say, as newbies, we'd say sciops, you know, and they were like, there's no S. There's no sci ops, like, because we're thinking operations. Sure. No, it's just sci-op. It's just sci-op. And that's one of the pet peeves that I have when I talk to people. It's like Lego.

You don't have it. Yeah, exactly. There's no Legos. Yeah, I say Lego. It triggers all the Lego nerds. So the Sci-op nerds out there are very happy with me. Yeah. So, yeah, tell us exactly.

Let's start, first of all, how you got into this program. And then we'll get into maybe what exactly you did with this program. Yeah. Yeah, so I was looking to join the army. I was training in ninjitsu in this martial arts. And my teacher had a bodyguard seminar. And, you know, he was talking about, hey, I used to protect the Dalai Lama. And that was a very specific way you got to be a bodyguard for the Dalai Lama, right?

You can't just be like a rap star bodyguard where somebody does something wrong and you just drop them on their head. And like, this is the Dalai Lama, you know. So I was really interested in that. So I went to the seminar when there was this guy. there named Michael Brewer, and he's like a super awesome guy. And I was telling him I was going into the service because I really had some skills and I wanted to use those skills to help my country because it was after 9-11. And I was like, I want to go into the 18 x-ray program, which is like the special forces you enter knowing that that's what you're going to be and you go through a

pipeline and so on and so forth. And he was like, you know, you should really, with this ninja background that we have and so on, the thing you should do is. is SIOP, and that's what I do. And I said, well, what's that? And he was like, oh, it's like psychological operations, like psychological warfare. And I was like, huh. And I didn't know that was a thing. He was like, yeah, you know, like the ninja, that's what we did back in the day. And like, you should try it out. And so I was like, okay, let's do it. And he was like, in this way, if you get hurt trying to go through the Special Forces program, then you go back to Saip. And you'll be hand in hand with them. You'll go through a lot of the same training. And you'll know

all of the same people and that good old boy network, you'll start to build those relationships. And so then if you don't make it, if you decide you want to go over there and you don't make it, you're still right there with them. You're just in a different capacity. And I was like, yeah, that's a better strategy. And this sounds really cool.

And the more I dug into it, the more I was like, no, this is really where I need to be, you know. I'm cerebral and I like to see the depth and how things work and how people's minds are working around specific topics. And, you know, and that's really, what I was passionate about and having that ninja background and that ninja connection and the ninja being masters of psychological warfare. I was like, this would be great for me to transition

into. And that's how it started. So you got, you were already prepped. Yes. Going into that. Like you, you, you kind of, this kind of like fell into your lap a little bit because of what, you know, we talked off camera. We'll get into that a lot. But there are so many links between your ninja training. Yes. Sciop. And I found, even with Matt, There's like there's so many. And so you kind of were prepared for this. Yeah. It happens now you're getting trained. Yeah. Can you tell us a little bit about what that entails? What's SIOP training? Yeah. So I think that's really what's some and we had this drill sergeant, which is he was a very unique guy. And so I, I stray to say, I don't know if everybody got the same experiences we had, but he really wanted to, there's two of them actually. They wanted us to experience what it was like to. really use sound and manipulation and sleep deprivation and all those things to your power so you can control or manipulate or influence different audiences and individuals. And so during my training, we would have just off the wall stuff, like, you know, this one drill sergeant that I'm talking about.

So you go to regular basic training and then you get from, you get done with that and you go to like your advanced individual training, which is AIT, which is going to be where you focus on just what you're doing, because everybody's a soldier first, right? So you go through that basic training. Here's how you shoot a gun. Here's how you do unit tactics, stuff like that. And I did that at Fort Benning. And then I went to AIT, and then you're like, okay, well, now here's what you specifically

are going to do as your specialty. And that was where the Saob training took place. And so we have our school day where you actually go to school and learn, like, what this eye up and how do you do it and what are the different words that you use and all that stuff. And then we had this drill surgeon. This guy would like just manipulate and play with us all the time. So times when we thought we had to be done were times that we weren't done. And so for instance, we get done after our long day. We do PT in the morning. Come back, rush, try to scarf something down, then go to the schoolhouse. Then you're sitting in school, learning all this stuff all day.

And then you're like, okay, we get back and we should be able to go to sleep so that we're we could be fresh for the next day. And then we'd get back and he'd be like, okay, we want you guys to go up and make a map of all your rooms and where everything is. Okay, we go up and do that thinking they just need to know. And then we bring it back down. Okay, cool. We want it to look like this out here on the lawn. So go and get all your shit and bring it out here and set it up this way on the lawn.

It's like at 6 p.m. Right. So we're all like, what? Discouraged. Yeah, discouraged. So now you got all of us like going up, you know, like, to our rooms and, you know, we do it, we, we do our AIT in tandem with civil affairs, right? So it was civil affairs guys and side of guys there.

So then we're like pulling all our stuff down and we're setting it up and we're looking at the map and we're doing all of this. And it's like now almost 11 o'clock, right? And so now it's 11 o'clock and you're like, oh, man. And they're like, yeah, you guys are going to sleep outside. You're going to sleep outside. We don't care of it. It rains tonight.

So now you're trying to deal with that psychologically. And then at 11, you get done. And they're like, all right, move all your shit back inside. Really mind games. Yeah. So then you spend all this time like trying to, you know, do it. And then you get all your stuff back inside. And then they go into a room, close the door.

And then they'll move shit around. And then they'll come back in the room and have you come back in and be like, what's this? This doesn't look like you're what you drew in your map here, you know, your strip map. And you're like, this is not how I left the room. And they're like, shut up, everybody get outside. We're going to smoke you guys because, you know, Isler didn't have his stuff ready, you know. No.

And so now we're all outside. And then everybody's mad at me or whoever, you know, because they didn't get it right. But really, it was just part of the thing. Whoa. They went into your room, rearranged it, came out and yelled at you because it's not right. Right. And you know in your mind, but then also maybe you don't because you're so tired. So you're like, you're like, did I do something wrong?

Because you don't know what they did. You just know they're saying that it's not right. right. And you're out here and you're smoked. And now everybody, it's all this resentment going on. And then you get back in at like two in the morning. And they're like, all right, well, go ahead and get some rest because we got a PT test in the morning. We're going to do physical training. And if you don't make it, you know, on your two-mile run and this time or whatever, we're going to kick you out of here. So now you can't sleep. So you know, like, you're like sitting in bed like, oh, no, if I don't pass this test, everything is for nothing. You know, I get kicked out of here.

And then you wake up. And, you know, or if you've, if you, if you, if you're like, you, if you're, You can't fall asleep. You wake up, you go outside. And then they're like, all right, just do your normal PT and get ready for class. And you're like, what? And they're like, yeah, there's no PT test. Just a mess with you. It's just messing with you.

And you really start to recognize really quickly how things break down, how people break down, how creating all this discourse in people's mind and their routines, really, or giving them hope. Like, oh, yeah, when you get home tonight, we're not going to mess with you. We're going to give you as much sleep as possible because we mess with you last night. And then you get back and they mess with you. And then you're like, whoa. Or they're like, we're going to mess with you when you get back. And then you get back and they don't mess with you. Yeah.

And you're like, I don't know what, I don't know what's reality and what's not reality here. That is, I mean, all to make you uncomfortable. Yeah. Right. That seems like what it is. So what's interesting is that, I mean, my father did sigh up as well for the Canadian military. And, you know, I remember my upbringing. Yeah.

And there's a lot of what you're saying. He was preparing you. I'll tell you after the podcast, but it's like, yeah, a lot of similarities of the psychological warfare. Very, very interesting because what do you think is the purpose of that, though? Is it just to prepare you for those situations or is it to break you? Like, what do you think is the goal? It's stress inoculation, right? So getting a person to understand what it's like to be that level of discomfort.

and then to understand how to be able to push through that and work with that. And that's very challenging. And people don't get that. And I remember going to my ninja training, talking to my ninja teacher, he would always say this thing. Everybody wants to be a ninja, but nobody wants to do ninja shit or be a, you know, like, he didn't say shit because he's a Buddhist monk. But nobody wants to really put in that ninja effort. And I was like, well, what do you mean? He was like, well, if you're talking about being a ninja, you're talking about a person.

who understands how people's psychology work and how to work that psychology to your advantage. And so how do you learn that? You have to actually, for most part, most people have to go through it. And that's tough. And so that means that master teachers of this would do stuff like, oh yeah, Chris, he sucks. I don't want him around. A matter of fact, you guys should beat him up. We don't want him here anymore. Then everybody's like, the teacher told us to be. you up and do all this stuff and you're like, but I trust my teacher. Why would you do that? You know? And then like you come back and you're like, teacher, they told me that you said beat me up. And he's like, no, I didn't tell him that, you know. Like you're my favorite. Like, what are you talking about? Like I told everybody that you were my favorite and not to touch you. And then you look at them and you're like, well, why did they beat me up? And, you know, and then like later it comes out that that was all part. It's all a part of you understanding how that feels and how to recreate that for other people. And, And the best way to do that is to have you go through it.

Go through it. So that you can know on some level what that feeling is. And those that are the best in Sciop, they hold on to that and they know how to recreate that really well. So it's not necessarily giving you an immunity to it. No. From what I understand. There is no immunity. Unless you're, in my opinion, unless you're a psycho, you know, where you're just like completely disconnected from emotion and life.

And you just want to. live alone as a hermit. Those are very, and those are people out there, right? But they're very unique individuals. Like, that's not everybody, you know. The majority of us have, want to have connections and social connections and be with people and we have triggers and we have triggers and we have hooks. Right. And so, but there's so many people out there that, who, not so many, but a small majority out there, or minority out there that don't actually follow those rules. And And they're kind of interesting individuals. And normally you can pick them out, you know, because they just don't kind of fit in well.

And there's some who pretend, you know, there are psychopass out there, murderers out there who pretend to be like what you expect them to see. Like in the show, Dexter, I'm not sure of you ever said. Right, yeah, of course. But like he, his whole life was about like trying to pretend to be normal, you know, even though he wasn't. But when you are just a real normal person and you go into one of these things, then you start real. that you're not immune neither. We all have a hook. And if you use that and understand that,

then that actually makes you a little bit, in my opinion, a little bit stronger. Because it's the ones who believe that they know and that they own everything about themselves that are the easiest to full. Shoo. That's a big blow to the ego for a lot of people. Oh, yeah.

Because a lot of people are like, not me. You hear it all the time. You see it all the time. They're like impossible that I'm being siop. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You know. Because I know and I have the information and I studied to trust its sources and, you know,

and those are the easiest people to fool. Yeah. That's why I even asked Lou, like if he, Lou Alizanda, I was like, is there a potential that you might be being used by like government agencies for like their own agenda? And he goes, it's possible. He's like, I know a lot of the tricks and there hasn't been one sign. Like usually like there's like a telltale like something. He's like, I haven't seen anything.

But again, you know, even he admits possible, right? Yeah. They're that good, huh? Yeah, yeah. And there's, this has been going on for a long time. So again, tying back to my ninja stuff. Sometimes a group or a clan, because everybody signs on if you're going to be a ninja going out there, you know that your life could be on the line and that you may not make it back, right? So with that understanding and not being in these groups not being tied to the way we.

normally see things. They kind of operate from this scheme of totality. So like things are happening in the way they should happen. And that's kind of tough for people to get. They would send people off on these missions with false information and then feed the enemy information so that they can get captured. So now you got this agent out there that gets captured that has certain information. They will resist because they think their information is true and real. And then when they finally crack and give that information, it was all false information to begin with. You get what I'm saying? And now I read that in the book, Misinformation or, yeah, to see the disinformation or misinformation

It's a book that came from a guy who was KGB and like defect it. And he was saying how they would often set up whole companies like shell, fake companies with people, real people in them who actually had real jobs who thought they were doing real things. But all of that was part of the sci-op. It was all part of the scam. So if someone infiltrated that place and got in. information from, let's say, you, you're telling a story that you truly believe it's real. I'm not lying. You're not lying.

But that story and that job and everything about it was all set up as a way, as a diversionary tactic for a really good, you know, counter spy program or another spy program from another country, you know? Wow. Yeah. That's intense. And we can't do that on an average, in our average day, everyday society, we can't deal with that type of depth.

and breath of like manipulation and illusion. You don't have time. You don't have time and you don't want to, and your brain's just like, we need it easy, we need it packaged. And as a magician, you know that very well.

It's like they don't want to think how the depths of how these organizations would go to create the illusion, you know? And so just like sometimes you look at a magician or if you find out about like how they do certain tricks, You're like, nobody would go that far. And they, like, but all of the magicians behind the scenes are like, yeah, we do go that far. We'll go that far for the trick, you know.

Like Houdini, you know, those guys like locking itself up and, you know, upside down and water stuff. And, you know, and people are like, no way. It has to be real. It has to be magic. Nobody would actually go through these depths to make it so. And you told me a story about the handcuff thing. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Houdini is really interesting because. It's like his skill wasn't being a magician. According to other magicians, he was pretty much a shit magician. He wasn't a great magician. He gets that rap because he was the most famous magician. But he was actually a fantastic escape artist. And even better than being an escape artist, he was a good marketer.

And he had a whole, I went to Copperfield's museum and he showed me he has basically his whole library. He also has his filing cabinet, Houdini's actual filing cabinet. There's a whole giant section that's just marketing scheme. Yeah. And it's labeled as such. And it's filled with the different lengths that Houdini would go through to draw a crowd. You know, and he has some of these most amazing escapes. There's 100,000 people watching him escape from a straitjacket, like suspended, right?

And so, like, he would, for instance, you know, go to like the best handcuff place and be like, you guys need to tweak this, this and this to make it, you know, even better. That would be. And they're like, all right, and they do that. And then he'd have them bring it to like the police station and be like, these are the best handcuffs in the world. No one will get out of these, right? And it just so happens. Houdini would come into town and be like, I will break out of any handcuffs here.

If anyone has handcuffs, I will break out of them without issue. And the cops were like, yeah, you think you'll break out of these? These are the best. And we have a certificate. And he's like, all right. And little did they know that he had made those tweaks. so that he can pick the locks easier or find a way out or finagle his way out of these cuffs. And, you know, so he would say, fine, you choose the cuffs, you choose the place.

And he would do that. And so these magicians often do that too. They go through great, great lengths. And that's why I find this common bond between what you're saying. Yeah. And I find it so fascinating because you are playing with people's psychology a lot. Like, that's the whole thing, psychological operations. Yeah.

So you're a bit of a magician yourself here. Yeah. Well, thank you. Yeah. Aber cadabra. Okay. So can you give us a practical example? And this doesn't have to be something you've done.

It can be. But let's just say for arguments, say just something that you would do, let's say, to Red Team, to make something happen. Can you give us some type of scenario where Psiops would be very useful and how you would. Well, I think one hot topic today, which I think we could talk about is like, and I always see things coming. out in the news and I start brainstorming like if my commander came in and said, hey, this is what we need people to believe or think, how I would do that, you know? And one of the topics is the UAPs that are the drones, UAP, whatever you want to call it, that are flying all over the place and there are these installations. And, you know, one way I was thinking about that is if

I did not know and did not have control over what was actually. happening. And but I didn't want mass panic or I didn't want, I want it to kind of control the narrative. Then I would have put, I would put up as many flying weird drones as possible so that the average person who doesn't want to believe will look at that and say, oh, that's just a drone. Even though they know it's like super weird and odd, you know, they're just going to go with their own bias and say, no, that can't be. They did say on the news that it was all these things. And that would be like a good little sciop, which is like, okay, there are things flying. We don't know what they are, but we don't want the average person to know that we don't know.

So we're going to say that they're just these things that we can all relate to. And then for those who might have a different opinion, we're going to toss another thing out there and we're going to say plasmoids. So it's either a drone or plasmoid. But the plasmoy has a scientific foundation. The drone has a scientific foundation. it all screams that we understand, you know, what's happening or what it is, maybe not where it's coming from, but we all understand what's happening. So it doesn't give people this feeling of insecurity like we literally can't control our skies and we don't know how to deal with these things that are up there. And there's still that debate there.

But if you really look at it, it's new information coming out all the time. and the information that's coming out is changing. Some people are saying mothership. Some people are saying this. And it's keeping you from landing on any one thing. Because everybody's kind of like, this is what I think. And I have people who told me this is the truth. And this is what I think.

So it leaves you kind of confused. And as long as you're confused, you're not on anybody's side. And you can't really take a stand, right? Interesting. Whoa. So I keep you stuck in the illusion long enough for us to get through it. Yeah. So that you can't really.

land on anything because once you land on something and you can then take a stand and say, hey, I want to know more about this because this is what I understand. This is a unidentified anomalous, you know, object in the sky. And I want to know what it is. You have said that it's something that we can't discern that's doing things that we don't understand. And if you say that, then now all of us are going to band together and demand more answers. But if you're like, It could be a drone. And then some of them are plasmoids. And some of them this.

It makes it a lot harder. Keeping them suspended in confusion is an actual tactic. Yeah. That's really interesting. You can't unify if you're in confusion. Yeah. And you can also, I mean, I suppose you can just disseminate false info through the ranks as well in that case and be like, here, we'll tell the police, we'll do this for the police or we'll do this to CIA or we'll do this the FBI. And now the answers are conflicting and it's up for debate still.

while they're fixing whatever's happening. Yeah. What do you think is the move? Because I've, I've speculated that much as well that that's what's going on. They're covering something with more things, right? They're just, in magic we have an expression, the larger motion hides the smaller motion. So if I were to do like some, you know, if I were to do this and just vanish the pen, that's a small motion.

Your eyes are kind of like on my hands. But if I go, now there's like more, the bigger motion, high. the smaller motion. Yeah. And that happens too. So if you got like specific drones going around, let's get more drones. And now it's like now the misdirect is happening. Where do we land once the drone situation is resolved?

How do they, the people who are, you know, doing all the activity, how do they break that to people? So you mean now that it's over and off the news? and... Yeah, like, what do they say? Like, how do they resolve it? Like, obviously on the news, they said, oh, it's just FAA, whatever, but it's still going on now.

Yeah. Yeah. So once they really figure out what's been going on, how do they tell us everything's okay now? Do they go, oh, it was just an exercise? Or do they, like,

where's your head there? What do you think they? I think that saying that it's an exercise is one way, which is kind of, to some degree, that's coming out. And it really depends on what was the purpose and what is the outcome. So

whatever they figure out is the truth, then, you know, where you're going to go from near, it depends on how you want people to perceive that truth or an untruth. You get what I'm saying? Like if it is an actual UAP, right, then it's like we still don't want people to know that. So we have to say that it was a training exercise. Maybe people will get with that. You know, or we have to say that it was us running some special mission, secret mission, you know, where it gives me an out because it's like, oh, that's why we couldn't tell you because it was a secret mission. Sorry about that, but this was for national security, you know, like. Yeah. So and then, you know, most of us, you know, most of us patriots would be like, oh, okay, yeah, okay, got it.

Yeah. They did what they had to do. Yeah, they did what they had to do. And it did make us uncomfortable, but we understand. For the greater good. It's for the greater good. Yeah. So we'll explain it away.

And then we'll also explain it away to our friends, you know, because we want to be right and we want to know that our version of the way the story turns out and what we agree with is right. So we'll pass that. We'll perpetuate that cycle. Yeah. Personal. That's like that's that hook again.

Yeah. We're going to get to that a second because that's really interesting. And that's like I feel like that's the baseline of Sciop is that hook. Yeah. Do you, when you see somebody like, Jake Barber or Lou Elizondo or any of these guys, muggles, us here. We're watching this stuff and we're commenting sciop or like this is a, does that ever go through your mind as well or is there ever a point where you rule out the sci up completely?

I never rule it out personally, me personally, because I've seen people on maskells and I've been a part of people on maskells like perfect example. There is nothing more trippy than for you. I was tactical sciop. So we only worked in teams as three with one local national or foreign national that will work with us to kind of help us understand culture. And that, you know, because sometimes we may think it's okay to put this on a flyer. But that actually means like, you know, to hell with your mom, you know? Right.

So that person will help us understand the culture and how that culture operates a little bit deeper who lives there. So we worked in these very small teams. There's nothing more trippy than to see something that you and a team of, well, you're a team of three, so two other people and this one person, this one other person, dreamt up as to how to manipulate and what you want to people to say and what you want to people to do and then start communicating with people in that environment, in that group or that tribe or in that culture. and they start saying back to you things that you wrote that you wanted them to say on the board, but they are saying it like it's their discovery, like it's their truth now. Nothing will blow your mind more and make you feel like you are also programmed. You're like, whoa, what the hell am I saying then? What am I doing?

Did somebody also write that on the board somewhere and say, this is what we want Hakeem and people like Hakeem to say? And it's nothing more trippy. It's like, it's, again, it's like you're in a dream. It's a magic trick. It's a magic trick. It's, yes, exactly. You're like looking at somebody and you want them to believe that it's magic and that it was like it came out of the ether and you got these wizard abilities.

But really, you're like, that's what I wanted you to believe, but I actually just did this thing. And that's, that's overwhelming. And if, if, you know, not if. let me own it. So me coming back and having aspects of PTSD, right? One of the biggest was that I didn't trust anything. You know, every freaking thing in my world was an illusion. I had been behind the curtain, brother. I was like, I was the Wizard of Oz, me and my crew.

You know, so I'm pulling the strings and making people think, the Wizard, the Wizard, oh, they got, he's got these magic powers and stuff like that. And then, and then you see behind the curtain, if you are awakened and cerebral, some people can disassociate from that. But I had, once I started having this deeper understanding, it started really getting to me. I was just like, man, I'm in Oz, you know, I'm in Oz.

I'm a part of Oz. I'm helping perpetuate Oz. Like, it's like, it's crazy. It's like, that's, it's profound, you know. There's a, I expect there's like a certain level of. guilt there as well that comes along with that and that's a whole lot part of the post-traumatic stuff. Yeah. And that's why I started, you know, I went out and I started doing talks and I've been working on this book called Pronokio's Liberation, you know, this idea of this, you know, doll that's controlled being liberated, you know, through understanding and knowledge about what what is happening in the world and how you can, those strings are all on all of us. you know, but it's recognizing that this string is pulling me this way and saying, oh, nope, I don't want to go that way. I don't want to go that way. That's a whole, that's this attention, this attentiveness to my feelings and my emotions, stuff that you would get through deep meditation and deeper self-reflection to pull away from that and say, okay, well, maybe I'm being led down this path and I want to be an active participant in understanding whether or not I want to go down that. way or I'm going to go another way versus just going down that way like a zombie and not realizing

it. Yeah. So to a certain extent, you are kind of immune and not immune in the sense like it'll never happen. But being aware of it definitely helps if you are also aware that you can be affected. Yes. Because it doesn't help if you think you're immune. Yes. Right. You can be aware of it, but if you think you're immune to it, then being aware of it doesn't help you. Yes. But if you're aware of it and know that you're susceptible to it, then you can put yourself into that mind state of someone who would be susceptible and kind of like help you navigate out of it.

That's really interesting. And I think that, because I'm hearing you talk, man, and I'm like, this is exactly like talking to a magician. Like we're saying the same things here. I am a magician. Yeah. We're saying the same things. And, you know, the difference is is that magicians, well, for the most part,

I won't say all of them, but we do walk an ethical line when it comes to that stuff because I'm, I know for a fact that I can convince people that I have psychic ability. I can do that. I've done it, you know, in the past when learning magic. And you get this high off of like controlling, controlling situation, controlling people's perception about you, about life, about their own reality. It becomes like you're like, whoa, and that's a dangerous thing. A lot of responsibility there. And, you know, it took me. few years to really understand that and that that is a very slippery slope and in the wrong hands can be weaponized. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that was one of the things when we went through SIOP school that I took very personal

is it was like, don't use this on American civilians. So actually the way the description of SIOP is to influence the hearts and minds of foreign target audiences. So it's not something that you're supposed to use domestically. Illegal to use it. Yeah. Even though we get around it, you know, all the time. I think it was like Smith and Burtz or something like that.

There's an actual article that tells us that we can't use it here in the States. And so we get around that by saying information operations or marketing. Military. Yeah. That'll blow your mind too. So we're, you know, I may have told you this, but, you know, people were not supposed to use. SIEOP on the American public, but then people get out and then they go into marketing organizations and what are they doing? They're not going to just say, well, I'm just going to throw away all this

training. They're going to use that training to help them forward the agenda of the marketing company. Or they go into political strategy and then they use that information to help, you know, this politician or media. And so they are using it. Yeah. They're just renaming it, rebranding it. Yeah. They're saying, I'm not using SIEP. Yeah, yes, you are. you know, and it's all, you know, Bernays and all of these guys help develop. And Bernays is directly related to Sigmund Freud. Yes. And what's funny is that one of the founders of Netflix is actually related to Bernays.

Oh, wow. I did not know that. That's a big sigh out. And that's true. You can look that up. Wow. He's directly related. Wow. So, you know, you go from the father of modern psychology to the father of propaganda, to the CEO of Netflix.

Wow. That's pretty impactful. Yeah. Yeah. And that's it, right? So these guys help develop and create how we think. And then they created these programs to help us manipulate and influence people and how they think. And so, you know, that's the foundation of a lot of this.

So let's talk about this hook. This is something that I find so, so interesting because this is the most important part for me. Because if you can find someone's hook, that's their Achilles heel. And online, it's pretty easy to find someone's hook because you can just like trigger them with different comments. Yeah. And as soon as they start responding, you're like, oh, a little sensitive area here, it seems like, right? Yeah. And that's where you attack that sensitive area until they break.

That's kind of like what we've been seeing online with bots and stuff. And that's how that works. Yeah. Can you explain what exactly a hook is and what you do to use that hook? Yeah. So one of the ways that we look at SIOP is we're always looking at how do we influence a person based on their values or belief system or, you know, their emotions, things that I need to. And those things can be considered hooks.

They are things that a person is doing subconsciously and reacting to in their life based on their belief system and the structure of how they walk in the world, that it's very difficult for them to break free. So, for instance, we'd say, like, you know, food could be a hook, right? And we see people addicted to different types of food and they're like, man, I know I need to stop this, but I can't, right? And then, you know, you will see like this commercial for these golden McDonald fries and the salt and stuff and it makes people salivate and then they're like, oh, I need

those fries, you know, even though they know they shouldn't be doing that. So I like to explain it like, well, what is, what do we know of a hook? Normally, we think of hooks as things that go into fishing lines and go in the water. And fish bite them shits all the time. Right? And you think the fish, you know, the council of fish don't get together and say we shouldn't do that, but they're still doing it. Wow. And that's because, you know, we, and then you go to fishing shops and they have different lures and the lords.

and the lures look different ways, and they say, oh, this one gets a lot of bites with the best, and this one gets a lot of bites with these type. And so on that scale, they're doing the same, they're doing the same thing as what, you know, governments are doing to the people, or other organizations are doing to the people, where that hook and what's on it, it's something that it's really tough for you to resist, you know. And I tell people, if you, you know, some of us have bad habits like picking our fingers, like for me, I's picking my fingers sometimes. And I know I've said plenty of times, I want to stop doing that, right?

And then I'll see, I'll get really, especially when I'm deep in thought, I'll start picking at my fingers. And then I'm like, ah, don't do that, don't do that, because that's bad for your fingers. And then I'll be like, okay, so what was I thinking about? Yeah. Right back to it. Right back to it. And so the hook would be that thing.

So for me, if I was doing a talk on stage and I wanted to target you directly to single you out. I might use an arbitrary example and be like, you know, there's a lot of people low on the IQ level that like pick their fingers. You know these type of people and I would just go on and you'd be like oh, that's me. Yeah, you'd feel targeted, insecure. Yeah. And look for that reaction.

That's right. And you would start questioning yourself. Yeah. Am I low IQ? How is that correlated? Yeah. How do I? And it would bother you, right? So like that's that's the idea of like you can find really specific hooks for specific people. Yeah. And that's what's so like so insidious or, you know, very hit, very powerful about SIAP

because what happens is once you find that hook, it makes things so much easier because all you do is package everything, every message you want to get within the. confines of that hook. And then people just eat it up because they can't, a lot of us don't aren't consciously aware enough to know like, hey, did we just accept it? And so I used to hear debates all the time. Now, a lot of people don't trust the media, but I used to hear debates all the time. Well, I listen to Fox and you listen to CNN and I do this and I do that. And CNN always lies to you guys. And Fox is always lying to you guys. And they're telling us to, you know, this news station is telling us the truth.

And then you had that like Sinclair video come out. And then you see like it's all like scripted and it's all side by side. It didn't matter if it was Fox or CNN. They're saying the same thing because these guys are owned by the same. And people are sorry, whoa, wait a minute. What's going on there? We're extremely proud of the quality, balanced journalism that CBS4 News produces. But we are concerned about the trouble and trying to be responsible.

One side of news stories plaguing our country. More alarming, some media outlets publish the same fake stories without checking facts first. The sharing of biased and false news has become all too common on social media. More alarming, some media outlets

that they can't be the same as they are true without checking facts first. Unfortunately, some members of the media use their platforms to push their own personal bias and agenda to control. And this is extremely dangerous to our democracy. And I still think people didn't really get. But that's it.

Most people were like, that's probably AI. Yeah. That can't be real. Yeah. And they're just, they're completely fooled. Yeah. Because they got to be. They got to be.

Or else it calls in the question so many choices. It's almost like when you go to a court and if they found out like a judge or a lawyer or some firm or whatever was, you know, a bunch of crackheads or drug addicts, right? then it calls in the question, or they were dirty, dirty cops. It calls in the question of everything that they've done before that. And now we've got to go back and review all of that. And that's devastating. So companies don't want to look at it. You know, they're like, oh, you know, let's just say Chris had a problem and kick them out of it.

Well, if we admit that Chris had a problem with drugs or alcohol and while he was doing these cases, then we have to open up all those cases again. And that's going to hurt our stats. And then we're going to have to, you know, and that's going to be too costly. So let's not say he had a drug problem. Let's say he had like an affair with somebody, you know, like because then that doesn't call in the question of these things. And so there's all this manipulation happening.

But going back to the point, which is that when people recognize that, like you said, they would then have to call in the question the choices that they made and the things that they've done based on the information that they got from that news source. And so it's much easier to just say it's AI. Yeah. You know, and it's much easier for those news sources to say, we didn't say that. That was AI. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. And now because we're, now you got all these brains out there searching for a way to make this right, you know, reconcile it in their brain that they're like, okay, yeah, we knew that. We're on your side. You know, like we, you know, and then they can use that in their arguments to when somebody says, oh, you still listen to them. Remember that story that came out where it showed all these things? Oh, no, that was AI. That was AI. They were trying to disprove my trusted source, you know, and they'll defend it. That is the best way to really have SIOP be effective. Or do a quick Google search. Yes. And the number one search result is it was AI. True or not. True or not, right? Yeah. And you're going to be like, I did my search. Exactly. That's my search. Exactly. Yeah, I think we talked about this before where one of the main persuasive tactics is not to force something on somebody for them to believe it, right? If you're a tyrant, eventually people are going to rebel and overcome. The way you do this best, the way you do SIOP best is you set

the conditions for people to make the choices and what you want them to make, but make, but those conditions make them make that choice so that they feel like they made the choice based on their own free will, not because they was forced into that choice. Does that make sense. And we saw that, and we saw that with some things that happened over the last few years where people went from, I'm totally against that to like making the choice and then people fighting with each other because they made the choice and you should make the choice and so on and so forth. And then you have all this information going out there that supports one side or the other. And then people are supporting using that as a means to firm up and sure up their stance.

right so you set the conditions for people to make the choices that you want them to make but feel like they made them based on their own research and knowledge they will then defend that choice because it's it's their choice yeah but if you force it on them then they'll always you know push that choice at some point that choice can come into question and they could push it off and say well chris did tell me that and i don't know if i trust them anymore but if i'm like I went out there. I did the homework. I found it on this site. I found it on this site. I did this, that, and other. Then it's a lot harder to convince you otherwise because you feel like you found it based on your own personal research. So this is a lot like in magic we talk about contrast. So the greater the contrast without breaking your objective view of reality, the greater the reaction.

So the greater the contrast between your view of reality and this impossible event. event. So the greater that is, without breaking it, without becoming fantasy. So staying within your confines of your objective view of reality and how reality works. If I can bend that and create a big enough contrast without breaking it, bigger reaction. Yeah. Right. So it helps to create a big contrast when they are determining what is real. They are determining the extremes of their own reality. Yeah. Right. So they're the ones making the friends. framework for the trick. Yeah.

They're the ones determining, no, that's impossible or only this is possible. Yeah. But you led them to those points. Yeah. Because you want them to be at those extremes so that this trick plays a lot bigger. Because if that contrast is smaller and they don't do their own research, it's hearsay from someone else or, you know, then the effect isn't as great. Yeah. So the bigger the contrast and the more free will that is involved, well, then the greater the contrast, the greater the effect, right?

Yeah. So the more that they can be involved in the process of creating the framework for how they think, the greater the effect of the SIOP is going to be. Exactly. And the lengths, the greater, the lengths at which it will continue to persist in their lives. Right. Right. And in their memory. Yeah.

And it'll go longer and longer and longer. But like you said, the shorter that effect, the smaller that effect, it'll feel like really intense. for a little while, but it'll start to die down and fade down. But the greater that contrast, it will stick around for a long time. And they'll start, they'll keep telling the stories. We talked about a person who is telling stories over and over and over again, you know, every time they see you, they keep telling the same story. And it's like months that's going by and they're still telling that story.

And it's getting crazier. Yeah, and it's getting more, you know, grand and, you know, and it's like, yeah, you know, that effect will continue to persist in their mind and they're doing the work for you. Now, a matter of fact, they're not only doing the work for you, they're making the work more substantial because they keep adding stuff onto it, you know, putting stuff in there. And that would be the greatest sci-op. Then there's groups that reinforce that idea because they also feel that way. So they will then support you and encourage you to keep believing that, which, you know. Yeah, those echo chambers or the bandwagon effect, you know, where people want to jump on the bandwagon and then we're all on this bandwagon together, you know.

Don't jump off. Questioning the bandwagon gets you kicked off. Yeah, or worse. Yeah. And so that's it, you know. I was always amazed in Sciop to realize that it is the foundation of everything. It's probably one of the most powerful tools we have. We think guns and bombs and all this crap is like super powerful.

No, those things have no power until we get more robots and AI. But anyway, those things have no power without the people. behind them. And so we are physical representations of how we feel and what we are on the inside, right? And that's one of the things that I learned from ninjitsu is that our physical reality tends to be a manifestation of who and what we're feeling on the inside. So you want to know how a person thinks and you want to know how a person operates. Just look at how they're operating in the world and then track that backwards. And you'll start to see who they are deep inside. And that's above So below. Yes, exactly, exactly. And that's really what we have to recognize. So then if we know that,

then we know bullets don't fly and bombs don't go off unless the people behind them are actually giving those orders. And then there are reasons why they might give those orders. And those reasons are based on how they perceive the world. And so if you're manipulating and influencing how people perceive the world, you have the ability to start conflict or end conflict or get conflict to be, you know, like a balance and neutralized, you know. So this is really the overall idea when you're looking at the sciop ability. And so we realized when we were fighting in, you know, Germany at that time, we had Hitler, I should say, when we were going against him, like the power of true propaganda. Like that dude was like amazing, you know, and his general and the people that he had around him that were working for him. He had one specific guy.

I can't remember his name. But this guy was the head of his propaganda machine. Was it a gobbels or? Say it one more time? Goebles? That sounds like it is. Yeah. And this dude was in charge of all of his propaganda and stuff like that.

And he was a genius. It was before the internet. Yeah. Right. So you were in this incredible echo chamber. But yeah, they were really the first ones to capitalize on that. that type of propaganda and create that this patriotic yeah you know because and that's often what people think of like how evil are these are these Nazis it's like the individuals who were Nazis

like most of them are just like everyone else yeah they over time really you know a lot of them were were forced to it there's a there's a whole you know gamut of reasons you know why did that happened but one of the major reasons was the psychological warfare against their own people yes and it got it convinced them that they were the good guys. Yes. You know, and that everybody else was bad. And so they attacked it from a very justifiable position. They're like, no, I'm doing the right thing, which was indeed the very, the worst thing. Yeah. But the SIOP was so great that it convinced them that they were doing the right thing. Yeah. And that is, I mean, that's, that's scary. It's very scary. And so there are two things that I want to say on that topic. One was one of this really cool video game that I end up

finding a long time ago was introduced to me by a friend of mine who was also training in ninjitsu and he was like he was like oh let me tell you the backstory of this game and so it was like a ninja game right and there was this clan and it had the eldest brother middle brother and a sister and they were like these really badass ninja right and the eldest brother was the best and he went out on this mission he ended up falling off this roof he hit his head and and this other ninja clan rival ninja clan found him. And instead of killing him, once they realized they were going to interrogate him, but they realized he lost his memory. So they were like, oh, we didn't know who you were. You're actually one of us. And they indoctrinated him in their clan, right? Reprogramed.

Reprogramed him, right? And so then he started fighting for them. And eventually he comes across his brother and sister, and they're like, we thought you were dead. And he was like, you're the enemy. What are you talking about? And so his whole scope of reality shifted. it. And so who was originally bad and his enemy became his friend, or his family, and then his family actually became his enemy. And so it's like, it was this big twist. And I was like, that's really interesting. Like, depending on what perspective we're looking at and what information we're fed, we can be really easily manipulated into thinking that people are subhuman or not human or so on. And I mean, we see that in our country. If we look at our timeline, whoever we're

we were at war with at whatever time that that group gets a hard rap, you know, all across the board. You know, it didn't matter if there's, we know some good folks. Oh, and, you know, well, they're different from that, you know, everybody else, you know. And we start doing, we start bringing up these really questionable things. The other thing is that in our ninja training, we actually have an eight-step accomplishment plan, we call it. And the first one is truth is relative, try to things from others' perspective without losing your own, try to see things as they really are, but stay tuned in, right? And so what it says, what it gets us as ninja to recognize is that, yeah, we might have our version of what we deem the truth, but it's relative to my scope

and what I do. The problem comes when I'm trying to force my truth on you, and that's what creates conflict, right? And so it does, so it's saying, be very mindful of that. Be mindful of this idea that truth is relative based on my perception and the people I'm around. This is the truth. But it doesn't keep me from trying to see things from your perspective, right, without losing my own. Great advice. Does that make sense? So it doesn't, it doesn't mean I have to give up my truth to understand your truth. It just means that I can hold on to mine and I'm still open to sharing and seeing things from your perspective without losing my own. And then I'm also going to try to stay tuned in because our truths are not the only truths, or maybe there's a part of

what you know that changes what I understand about the world. And you wouldn't know otherwise. And I wouldn't know otherwise. And that's what I tell people today. They say, well, how do we beat SIE up? Because we got to, I say, dude, go out and find somebody who you believe has a different opinion than you and have that conversation and see what they think because now sciop is works well because we are a third party right we're using media and radio and television and this and that and if you're looking at that you don't know if it's true or not we're watching this person on the news and they're telling us this thing and we're thinking we connect with that person so we think he's telling us the truth or she's telling us the truth and instead really what i need to be doing is having a conversation with

you directly. Yeah. And instead of relying on this person to tell me how to think, you know, and we have a hard time doing that. Of course. So cut out the middle, man, and go and have a conversation. Now, that's still a different battle because then your belief system based off your news or whatever you're, wherever you're getting your information is influencing you

and wherever I'm getting my information is still influencing it. But we have a greater chance of overcoming that when we can debate in person than if we're debating through a television screen. Yeah. You know. Seems like removing the ego is key to all of this because I think that's the one thing that prevents us from doing that. Because on paper, everything you're saying makes complete sense. Yes.

In the real world, ego gets in the way. Yeah. And we'd rather stick to our guns than to, you know, drop our hands down for two seconds and just listen and try to really picture a different scenario. Because by doing that, you play a passive action. you take a passive position. Yeah. And most people aren't comfortable taking a passive position, especially when it comes to things that they really care about.

Yeah. And so that's, you know, a lot of that is just removing the ego and like, what do you have to say? And really, you know, it's, like you said, you probably be surprised how much the other person's perspective can actually strengthen your own if you listen, right? Or help you with your own, you know, definitely. Yeah. I totally agree with that. And I think that's really important. I had this conversation with somebody before. And, you know, I'm just being bare and raw. But I had a friend and, or I have a friend. And I remember I'd never been to his house. And I go over his house. And, you know, I'm a kid from New Jersey and so on and so forth. Don't know much about the, didn't know much about the South until I moved to the South. And still, I was still sheltered because I was in the military. And that's a different environment. meant different culture. And I end up going to his friend's house and he had a Confederate flag hanging on his wall, right?

And I was like, whoa. You know, I thought this guy, like, I didn't know he was like that. And then I was like, wait a minute, like what? Like everything, I've known this guy for years and everything he's ever done in my life has been super positive. And we've been able to connect and so on and so forth. So I went into his, we were in his garage. I went into his little room and he was there and I was like, hey, like, I saw the Confederate flag out there. Is that what are you doing with that?

You know, the way I, from what I know, it says, hey, that you are, you believe in the support of a group that says that, you know, my culture or at least the black culture could be, you know, suppressed and like held down and all this other stuff. And he was like, oh, oh, no, no, that's not, that's not where I, when I came up, this was like a symbol of pride for the South and this than other. That's not what was taught to me. And we had this long debate, right? And at the end, there were some things that we agreed on and there were some things we didn't agree on. But the one thing we could agree on was that we loved and supported each other. Yeah. And that that was not.

And he even was like, do you want me to take that down if it makes you feel bad? And I was like, after this conversation, actually, no, man, this is your house and so on and so forth. But I feel much better knowing that that wasn't the perspective you were coming from. But if I had just said, oh, no, you know, F that guy, you know, he's this and other. He's racist, blah, blah, blah, then we would not have been able to get through. And we're still friends to this day. And again, when I say support, I mean, this dude. has supported me on so many different things and so many different ways.

So his actual actions and the way he really operates in life is not like that at all. But he came from a different perspective and a different background. And so we all have our shit and we have to recognize that. We all have our shit. We're all dealing with stuff. We all have these beliefs that we haven't really deeply examined that comes from where we come from or what we. And sometimes those things, we just do things. don't really deeply examine them.

And then somebody calls us out. And that's where the real work begins. We have these conversations and we say, okay, well, let me have this deep conversation with you about this thing. And then we can get through it. Again, if I let the flag dictate who my friend is because this guy I've known for years who supported me on all these different ways, then, and now I'm using that as a means to say all that doesn't exist anymore and at all this bullshit.

The only thing that matters is this and not have a conversation. then I thwart any growth that could ever happen versus us having a growing moment together, he and I and him recognizing that that made me fill a certain way and apologizing and me recognizing that that wasn't where he was coming from and apologizing and us still not agreeing 100%. I'm not saying that. Yep. But agreeing enough to where we were able to stay friends. Yeah, it isn't binary these things.

You know, the human spectrum of all this stuff that we're talking. talking about. Yeah. There are an infinite number of variables that impose themselves. And I guess being somebody, whether you're a magician, whether you're a sciop expert, you're looking to figure out as many of those variables as you can. Yeah. But there's still variables you didn't plan for.

Yeah. There's still things that will take you off guard and be like, well, I didn't plan for this, didn't prepare for this. And understanding those will actually help you on, you know, the future with the future things. Okay. Dude, thank you so much for sharing all this about the Sciop stuff. And I'm, I mean, endlessly fascinated. I could, I want to, I could talk about sciop for the rest of this podcast because it relates so closely to what, to do a part to what I do. We definitely have to do a part too. And, but I do also want to get onto, you know, some other interesting things because you lead such an interesting life. The next thing I want to talk about is your relationship. to remote viewing. Now, as some of you know, if you guys are unaware,

I spent a year researching remote viewing, practicing it, meeting, you know, some of the people who are the figureheads of remote viewing, you know, Edwin May and McMonigle and Ed Dames and even Yuri Geller. And, you know, I spoke to all these people who really taught me quite a bit in Brett Stewart. And it was just so fascinating. and I went into it a skeptic knowing magic, knowing techniques and confirmation bias and cold reading and this stuff. But after seeing the results myself, I came to the conclusion after looking at the data because there's a lot of data that there was something there. There's definitely something there.

How did you knowing what you know, because almost having a magician like mine, how did you get into remote viewing? And what happened to me made you believe in this? So I was already kind of down the remote viewing rabbit hole to a degree with my ninjitsu. So the ninja had these nine abilities, this Kooji, you know, these syllables, these nine syllables or nine powers that they worked in. And this came from originally it was tradition that came out of India and then into China and Tibet. and then to Japan, and then they kind of wove their views in different things and had these different practices. And the ninja were these villagers that used that as a means to help them survive and thrive in this society that really wanted to destroy them. And so one of the

abilities is remote viewing. So I remember having conversations with my teacher, this guy, Stephen Kay Hayes, and he was saying, hey, there was this time when, the army and the military got really into like this thing called remote viewing we know it as something different of just like coogee six or seven you know and um we're we worked it from a different angle and they wanted to kind of see what i knew about it and they had me fill out all his paperwork and it was actually through the air force uh um with dale graph and when del graft was working his his kind of he was interested in it before he actually took over the unit for the army And so he did some stuff and he was talking about that.

So I was still very physical at the time. And so the spiritual stuff was exciting, but not as exciting as the physical stuff, you know? And so he talked about it. We did some meditations and stuff, but then that was it. Well, later on in my life, I came to this point where I'm teaching at my different martial art schools that I own. And I would see children now are all into these animation characters and they run around. and they would do these mudras and they would act like they were like summoning dragons and stuff. And I'd be like, man, this is cool.

This is like they, it was these ninja cartoons and other cartoons like it that was using this lore. Narrato, Dragon Ball. Yeah, that comes from this actual stuff, you know. And I would try to have these conversations like, hey, kids, you know, you could really, we got things like that in our art, you know. And they'd be like, really? Yeah, show me. You know. And I was like, huh.

Hmm. Well, if I wanted to show. show them, you know, how did I learn? And I was like, well, I spent 25 years with my teacher and doing stuff and diving into this on my own and leaving New Jersey to move to Ohio, or training my teacher in the woods and everything else. And I'm like, okay, kid, train for 25 years with me and I'll get you there, you know, and they're like, you know, I'm going to go back to, you know, doing my pretending. And I was like, well, if I did youth are the next generation, if I really want to get them to understand,

and not lose this knowledge that I've worked so hard to gain and others have too. We need to make it fun and exciting and something easy where they can have an experience right now with that truth and then be able to thrive and grow and thrive in that experience. And so I said, well, who's out there doing stuff like that? And then the remote viewing came back. And I was like, oh, okay, well, maybe I should get involved in that and really see what protocols are out there and started looking into that. and found my first teacher, Paul Smith, who is an amazing gentleman, and he knows so much about this field.

And then that led me to another mentor, Tom McNair, and then that led me to another mentor, Bill Ray. And then I trained under Joe McMonicle and took his classes. And, you know, I've been taking some of Len Buchanan's classes. And so I just started gaining this knowledge. And the goal was how do we get youth to have these. experiences in a controlled manner that allow them to explore this and then hopefully grow up with this, you know, because a lot of the people I taught to find it much later in life, you know. And, but if we can get little ones to really enjoy and grow in that power, then that would be

ideal. And that also led me to mind sight, too, that same quest. So, yeah. Is that like the hot pink or red or something? Yes, it is, the hot pink. Is that green? Yes, it is. Okay, orange.

Yes, it is. That's three in a row that you have gotten right. Is that something you find, because obviously with the talk of psionics and this recruitment, you know, they're saying they're recruiting these children from all around the world who have been in traumatic events. And have you also seen like a correlation between the strength of the sigh and like the age of the student? I would say yes. I think that the kids that I, there's a weird dynamic happening because there's still so many adults who don't believe, right? And youth are mirror, their mirror neurons, which help them succeed in adapt to life. They're watching the people in their environment and they're gaining a lot of their perspective based off those people.

And so chances are if mom and dad, really don't believe in this, that kid is going to have some struggles really understanding, even if they have an event, if they have that first-timer effect where they just like knock it out it apart, after that it may diminish because their environment doesn't support it or doesn't really talk about it or do it or whatever. And so I have seen that youth are willing to try a lot easier and dive in and have success. But I also see it diminish in some youth based on the fact that their family doesn't, you know, follow that script. And here's a perfect example of that is that I had these kids that I was working with. I call it gut training so I don't cross any lines

or anything with other type of belief systems and stuff. So I just say, hey, we're learning gut training. How do you, you know, which is true self-defense, right? How do I, instinct? Yeah, instinct. I'm looking at this person who's smiling at me and really in the back of their mind and heart. They want to kidnap me and take me away from my family. But they're saying all the right things, hey, kid, I'm your buddy, you know, here, take this. So I have to use something else to help me feel that out. And instinct and my gut will tell me through this intuition that this person is not right, but my logic brain, because I don't want to use my intuition anymore, because my immediate environment at home tells me that that's crap and we don't do that, then I go along with it and now I'm gone, right?

So I say, hey, we're just trying to build up that gut and your instinct and get you that intuition that you need to kind of survive these threats, you know. But really, I'm trying to get them to a different place, but I'm using that as a means, a vehicle to help them grow. Not to cut you off, but just so everyone's aware, you teach a lot of this stuff. You have students of all different age groups. Yes. And you teach the ninja stuff, the mind site stuff, and this particular thing.

So just for those of you listening, you've been doing that. You've been teaching for how long now? I've had my school in operation for 17 years. Yeah. I've been teaching for probably 20 years. Okay. Yeah. Or more.

All right. Sorry to cut you off, but I did feel like that was important to get out of the way that people understand that, like, you're not just telling some random kids to, like, trust your gut, that you have a school and you've been doing this for a long time. That was my bad. I didn't set that up. Okay. Yeah, no problem.

Thanks for going back to make sure that, you know, I don't get beat up on the internet. Yeah. Yeah, so that I had this kid in there and they're playing these games and I put a blindfold on and they got to like do stuff and, you know, with the blindfold. And I one day was like, hey, let's have your moms do it, you know, that are out there while. And the kids are like, yeah, I'm going to get mom involved. So they go and grab mom. Mom's come out there, put the mask on. Some moms are doing well.

Another mom is doing well. And then one of them takes the mask off and she says, you know, I thought he was pretending this whole time. I thought it was fake. I thought he had to be peeking through the mask. She's like, but you can't see anything through that thing. So then that gave me this kind of, that kind of gave me this epiphany of like, wow, you know, she basically just said without saying was that at home, she's thinking it's just all made up and pretend.

And if he's at home with her most of the time, if he's like, hey, I want to do gut training. She's like, oh, yeah, we don't do that pretend stuff. You just do that when you're at the martial arts school. And that could potentially shut down that youth wanting to explore that and wanting to grow in that. And so, again, that was my initial way into me wanting to get deeper into remote viewing. But also for me personally in my life, I am truly trying to follow this ninja path. And so these nine abilities that they had, I'm really trying to embody that. And then go down that, goes through the process of doing that.

Because this was these nine, once you obtained or was able to really, really, really grow in these nine abilities, it was what they call, you become what they call a Tatsycin, which is like this fully actualized human being, right? Well, rounded person. Well, round it. And I have also study and training yoga. And, you know, we have the gross plane, a subtle plane, and the causal plane. And you, you exploring all of those and really getting to a point where you embody all of those

takes you to this other level where you're in this really, you're fully actualized human being. You know, you're somebody who can really explore all aspects of what it means to be human, which is the term yoga, which means to join or union, right? You're joining all of who you are together. So it's not just me being physical or it's not just me being gross and a subtle plane or a gross plane. or is not me just being in a subtle plane. It's me weaving together all those in a very nice balance and really fully exploring what all that means

and how they all interrelate, you know, so that we operate very well and efficiently and to our greatest potential. And that's what my goal is, personally, for my own life. And I see that if I can give even a little one one extra taste of another aspect of their, you know, multi-dimensional nature, that I've done my job, hopefully as an instructor or a teacher for that person's life. And I've also helped bring it into the world someone who's going to be a more powerful being who hopefully fights for, when I say fight,

I don't mean like, oh, but, you know, really pushes for more light in the world than more love in the world because they recognize their own full, they recognize a little bit more about the magnitude of who they really are, which helps them recognize the magnitude of what they really are in a grand scheme of things and how all that connects to one another. Wow. I mean, that's a lofty goal. But I think, you know, I've seen you, I've seen the videos you've sent me where, you know,

you're with your students and they're doing the mind-sight things. And so those who aren't a, wear there are these things called mindfolds, which are like blindfolds, but better. They're completely blackout. I use them actually for meditating because no light gets into these things. There's no peeking. Like, I mean, okay, sure, there's ways that you can probably rig it up. I'm a magician, right? Like, I mean, I can make a blindfold that I can look through, okay, but that's not what these are. And it's completely dark. Like, no lights getting in. And these kids and these students, what they're doing is they have colors in front of them.

and then they have a pile of like cardboard papers or whatever and they're kind of sensing somehow perceiving in some cases I guess even seeing in their mind's eye what colors these papers are and they're putting them in the right piles and you know there's there's some examples of that in the telepathy tapes as well which was really cool to see and you know when I see this man like I'm not alone in thinking and being skeptical when I see this right? because I've seen some pretty incredible stuff. And when I look at that, I'm like, that's so insane that, like, my brain glitches out and it goes straight to Occam's Razor. And Occam's Razor tells me you can see it.

Yeah. You're cheating. Right? That's Occam's Razor. Yeah. But in this case, they're not. And it's just so hard to reconcile as an adult who, you know, has a view of reality, walks around every day. It's hard for an adult to reconcile that.

Yeah. be like, how does that fit in my reality now? Yeah. Like, how does that even work? So when you're doing these exercises, do you, first of all, this has happened to you, too. You practice this. Yeah, yeah. What is that like?

Is that, is it a sensation? Is it a vibration? Is it a sense? Like, how does that work? I think your question is huge and it has many layers to it. And the first layer is when we. look at it and we think it's got to be something more. I don't understand. There was a time I would stray to say in human history where that wasn't it. That wasn't the case.

Oh, the shaman, the this, the that, those coming in, this is my theory. I think it's a little more than a theory, but I want to stay open. Those coming in, the children, spent most of their time with those going out, the grandparents. And these tribes and these small communities or groups or whatever. And the grandparents, the kids have this unique perspective because they're not really bound by the world. And then the grandparents, those who are going out are losing, you know, their binds of the world.

They're going back to source. And these guys are coming out of source. And then the people in between, the parents are hunting and fishing and building and doing those things. They may still believe in those things, but they have jobs, they have things that they got to do to make sure that the village survives. So the youth are getting trained by those individuals, these older individuals. And then as they come into adulthood, they have that understanding already. I think it was supported back then. And then they had shaman and medicine people who were helping. And so they were a lot more in tune. But now in this paradigm,

you know, we are a lot more skeptical because we, we are a lot more skeptical. Because we we live in this kind of materialistic, reductionistic society, and science has really helped us come along in some ways. But, I mean, you know, we've had all of these experiences in science where we thought shit was not real, where we said it can't be that the earth goes around the sun, that there's no such thing as things in the air called germs we can't see that can infect people and do. all that stuff and we'll kill you for it if you say it again, you know? And then somehow that flipped over. And so I only wanted to talk about that point because, you know, there are people who still say, no, no, that can't be. That can't be. It's got to be them tricking and playing and so on and so forth. But then that maybe I don't think that's how we always thought. I think that was probably

lead a minority at some point in time. And the majority was like, yeah, of course, you know, like, yeah, we can talk to, you know, I've talked to a Native American man who said, oh, yeah, the ancestors used to talk about, like, how did you know you could eat that plant and that one? Was it just that everybody died who ate that one? And then enough people said it. And then they said, and these guys would say, no, the plant told us. Whoa. And now we have all this research coming out that saying, like, plant or these sentient beans and that they're communicating with each other and that, you know, there's mycelium under the ground that's telling this tree over here and this tree a thousand miles away like what's on its way and we can prove that and you know but these old ancient people were

saying oh yeah they're like oh you're just figuring that out you know like we've been writing about this and telling it in what we call in j in japanese martial arts the okuddin like this this verbal transmission for for generations but you're just figuring that out like yeah we don't need to understand the science to use it. Yes. Yeah. Or to have, I mean, what is faith to have that belief that it's there and, and understand that. But I wanted to definitely preface that and say, like, okay, yeah, there's, there's that. And then there's, okay, well, what is happening when I do my mind sight, when I do my remote viewing? And I can tell you it's really odd. It's a knowing. and a lot of people have been using that,

the more I've been in this circle where it's just a knowing. And I remember my teacher, Paul, saying Paul Smith, he would say, if you think that it is this color or it's the shape, this shape, or whatever, you're probably wrong. If you feel like it is, though, you're probably right. So if you're like, I don't even understand why I'm writing, I don't know, I just feel like I should write square. And I don't know.

And I've seen people when they first learn. they go through that I don't know stage. What do you mean? Write something down. Yeah, tell me what's in the box. How am I going to tell you in the box? Just write the first thing that comes to mind. No, I don't understand.

You know, and they just start writing. And they're like, I don't get it. What am I supposed to be writing here? You know, well, what colors come to mind? Oh, blue, but why? Why blue? Black. Why black, you know?

And they're just fighting it. Their logic is just like resisting. And then you open the box and they're like, holy but Jesus. That's what happened to me. that's it that's that's you feel so silly doing these things and and and you know there is that that that sort of detachment from what it used to be where you used to be like feel empowered with these things now you do feel silly like you know you're forced to feel silly you're kind of bullied into thinking that this isn't real right so um I remember doing the sessions and

during the sessions I would always like I'd meditate and I'd feel good right and and like like you said like sometimes you just know you're like like, whew, that's a, I'm getting a really, like, good feeling about this and, like, you'll just do it, whatever. And then as soon as it's done, I'm like, ha. And then it's time to open the envelope and I always be like, oh, no, that's probably all wrong. And then the doubt would sink in. And then I'd be like, no, this is stupid.

I'm stupid. What am I doing? This is not going to work. And then I start doubting myself. But then I open the envelope and sure, lo and behold, like, I was like, whoa. But, I go through that phase, that doubt phase after. Yeah. Not during.

It's just right before opening the envelope. And I'm like, oh, I'm going to look so dumb. There's going to look like there's an egg on my face. Like, this is going to, this is going to suck. Yeah. And, yeah, it turns out that like that knowing really does translate. And another thing I found out is like after doing it a lot, you would start to recognize that knowing. Yes.

And that's the practice. Yeah. And I only found that out after because I was like, how do you practice just like gut checking things? And well, you remember how it is you felt. when a piece of information gets confirmed, you remember what that felt like when you perceived it the first time. And so when it happens again, you go, oh, and you get excited, and then you do it. And then you find it, oh, and it doesn't always match, but sometimes.

Yeah. And then you start to build a sort of repertoire of these senses and how that, you know, how those made you feel. And but I also found it that relying too much on that isn't good either because then you start getting overconfident. Yeah. And the ego gets in the way. And it's so touchy. Yeah. Yeah.

And that's, and I mean, that can be related to how does a person know when they shoot a three-point shot that it's going to make it? And when you talk, when I played basketball and then also talk to people who would play basketball, there'd be times I remember this guy. He almost all the time from the free throw line. He'll, he throw this thing up. And he would make it in there, right? And then he got to a point where he would just come down the court, throw it up, turn around, run back. and it would just make it. And we all, I'm sitting there in the center, like waiting for the rebound.

And then I look over and I see him walking back. And then I look up and it's like, and I'm like, how did that dude? No. You know? And it'll just say like, I don't know. I just feels everything feels right when I put it in the air. But they still sometimes miss. Yeah.

But they get better at recognizing that sense, recognizing what it feels like when the knowing is happening. and giving us that opportunity to understand that. It's a story that I have that came to mind when you were saying that, where I had an employee once, and I noticed he would get this one meal, and every time he would get this meal, he would gargle a little bit when he talked,

like he had phlegm in his throat, and he'd start coughing. And one day I said to him, I said, you know, did you ever notice when you eat that, that meal you're eating, that you start getting a lot of flim? And, you know, you start coughing a lot. And he was like, no, I don't think that's, he was like, no, I'd ever noticed that.

And I don't think it's there. And I was like, okay, cool. And I just went on about my business. And like a month later, he comes back to me. He said, you know what? Since you said it that one time, I've been paying attention. And every time I eat it, I get tons of phlegm and all this stuff. And so, yeah, that changed my perspective, right?

So I brought his awareness and his attention to it. And he was aware enough to go back and like pay attention to it. And then he was able to work something out where now he knows that he's not going to feel too well after he eats this meal, you know. And that sometimes is why having a good teacher is important because they can help you have those moments. And or just being able to be mindful and pay attention to what's happening in your world. and that's part of the growth in these skills is having that awareness of when the knowing is happening because at first is like, I don't know what's going on.

And then after a while, you start having that moment where you're like, oh, every time I kind of feel this little thing, then that's happening. And we see that with the mind sight too. We'll have people like use their hand and they'll look for things. And I talk to people and I'll say, hey, like, how did you know? And they're like, oh, one kid was telling me they feel like somebody pressing on their hand. And I was like, oh, okay.

And then I've had kids who start with her, like, I don't know. I just knew it was there. And then later they'll be like, you know, I was thinking about what you said. And every time I get over the bag, my hand gets really cold, you know. And I'm like, oh, okay, cool. Let's, you know, let's pay attention to that for next time. Right. And they are paying attention now.

So, and then their stats get higher and higher because now they have the understanding of what that signal is, and then go from there. And then there's this thing where, you know, we call it your language. Sometimes their language change. So now it's not cold, but it's hot. You know, and then they're like, oh, man, I'm getting it wrong. I'm getting it wrong. And then they start getting them right.

And I say, well, what happened between when you were getting it wrong? Well, I remember it used to get cold. But then today, for whatever reason, it's not getting cold anymore, but it gets hot. And so I started choosing hot. And then I was getting them right. And it's like, oh, okay, well, isn't that interesting? that we change as individuals from a day-to-day basis, right? You have different days where you're susceptible to more things

or you feel different ways based on how you went to bed, how much sleep you got, maybe what your chemistry is on that day. And we do know that. That's a fact that nobody, you're not, your constitution isn't always 100% the same as the day before as it is today based on all of these, this balancing act that's going on in your body. The signal is so faint. that any like little bit of lack of sleep or you ate too much or you're not feeling too well,

like any of that is going to affect the signal. Yes. Or sort of how you perceive the signal, right? Is there, okay, I'm so fascinated by this stuff. There's so many things I want to get to. But I do want to transition from here in a second, but first I want to ask, just for the audience at home, is there like a cool remote viewing story that you have personally? that you did that you would like knocked your socks off that knocked my socks off I would say it's when I watch other people uh there's

several people I know that are really really good but I'd say probably the one the the time I was the most impressed with my remote viewing was the time I was the most stressed and so I was trying to get this homework done for Paul he has this like his program is super intensive it's amazing you know you got a bunch of homework you got to do once you get done with the program. And the only way you can make it to the next level is if you do all that homework. And so I believe, yeah, I was about to take his level to his intermediate course, but I had like one more homework assignment done. And I'm in school for integrative health medicine. I got my businesses. I got all the stuff going on. And I just wasn't able to get that last one done. And it's only like two days before I'm supposed to fly out. And so I'm thinking he's going to either make me do it when I get there or whatever. Excuse me.

So I'm like, oh, man, I got to get this done. I'm stressed. I'm like, oh, you know, I got like five minutes, maybe 10 minutes to get this thing done. And, you know, but when you do CRV, it's a pretty, it could be a pretty lengthy process. You got to go through. So I'm like, I'm going to just have to do it. And whatever comes out comes out. And then at least he'll tell me I'm wrong, but I'll have it in, you know, like, so I'm

gaming it in my mind. And I'm sitting there. I'm at the table. I'm super stressed. I don't do a cool down. I don't try to get in the zone. I'm just like, all right, here's the numbers, and I'm writing it down. I start speeding through.

I get to like four pages, and then I'm like, all right, I'm done. I'm just going to submit it. And I opened the thing up, and that was the best remote viewing I've ever done. Whoa. And it's like, whoa. So all the times when I, like, tried to get in the zone and, like, sit down and take my time and focus. Yeah. I didn't do as good as when I was like under pressure in it, you know, just did.

didn't care. This goes back to this goes to another story. So I'm going to segue into this story about when I got my fifth degree blackbound in Ninjitsu. So I'm going for my, I failed the first two times I went for this test. So we in Ninjitsu, we have the five elements, right? This five elemental manifestation, which, you know, you can find in Chinese stuff and in Indian, Hindu, uh, faiths or beliefs. And so we have these five elements. And so we have these five. elements. And getting to your black belt, you go from earth to water, to fire, to wind, to void, right? And then you get a black belt. And that's the mastery levels. And then first degree black belt is advanced earth. Second degree is advanced water, advanced, you know. So here I am.

I'm at this, you know, fourth degree black belt. And I'm in here and I'm trying to, you know, get through this, this process. And I've been in this kind of like fire. mode, right? So actually is mastery. Then it's, then it's a second degree is like advanced or so whatever. And so I'm in this fire mode and I'm like, every time I come to the test, I'm like super athletic and I'm like, you know, doing this stuff. And I'm just like all over it, right? And they're like, nope, you don't pass. You did good. Nobody hits you. You were like connected. You're in there. You're doing all the stuff. But nah, you didn't pass yet. And so I'm like, what? I didn't pass. Like, this is crazy. Like, what's going on? They're like, you need to be more free. You need to let go. You need to kind of just move with it. You need to be a part of this thing. And I'm like, I'm like, what? And they're like, like, when? You're trying to get to win. You're trying to transition into the next piece. And so I'm like, I don't, I don't get it, you know? So then I try another time and I fell again. And I'm like, and that time I was like really trying to get the stuff down. And I'm like, you know. So I really got to. a point where I was like, well, fourth degree black belt is enough. I don't need to be wrapped up in these belt things. You know, I'm not going to test anymore. I'm going to try one more time. And if I don't do it, then all right, whatever. I still love my teacher. I love the people I'm training. Well, I'll just train. And I'm just done with testing now. I'm just be a fourth degree forever. So I go to that final test. And I'm like,

you know, my friend's like, are you going to test today? I was like, yeah. But he's like, are you nervous anything? I said, no, bro, I'm telling you, as my witness, if I don't pass today, it's fine. I don't care. I don't care. Whatever happens the day happens, right? And I was just really adamant about that and really laid back. And I'm watching all other people test, and we have to do Rondory, what they call free response. So all these people come out and they're, like, trying to punch you and kick you. And it's not choreographed. You just got to like... Freestyle. Freestyle, right? And it's not one-on-one. It's like people coming at you, you know? Are they actually trying to hit you?

Yeah, they got gloves on, and they're trying to punch you. For real? Yes, for real. Whoa. And so I get up there and I fix my uniform. I stand out there and like all of the seniors, because I was, I'm a senior black belt at that time. So only seniors attack you. So people, your level are above.

So juniors don't attack you. Normally you don't get like a first degree or second degree because every, you know, the things you might do are too, may be too intense for them at that state. age. And so you get fourth degrees, fifth degrees, six degrees attacking you if you're going for or fifth degree. You go what I'm saying? Yep. And so I'm out there and they say, go. And then stuff is happening, I guess. And then they're like, stop. And I'm like, and then my teacher comes up behind me, taps me on the shoulder with this sword. And then it's the sword test. And you got to like feel the intention, his murderous intent, and then you move out of it away at just the right time. The first

two times I failed miserably, right? And he tasked me on the shoulder to let me know that any moment now this could happen. And then all of a sudden, I just move out of the way. And I look to my left and the sword is right where I was standing. And then I hear everybody like, whoa, they're clapping. And they're like, yeah. And I'm like snap out of it. And my friend runs up to me and he's like, Bro, that was the most amazing thing I ever saw. And in my brain and in my heart, I was like, what the fuck just happened? I lost all time.

Like, I have no clue to this day. Like, when I took the test the first two times, I can tell you every move I made, every move he made, everything that happened. It wasn't until I let go that, and I really embodied letting go that I became the wind, which is our element where you're like leaf in the wind. The leaf in the wind is not trying to control the wind. Leaf and the wind is

flowing with the wind. Wherever the wind is pushing, that's where it goes, you know? And I was like, and that's what happened. And then my friend Rick comes up to me and he's like, bro, I thought, I thought I was going to make you fell. I said, how? He's like, there's his time. I was like, I just was in the energy of everything that was going on. I came up. I saw you. I went to punch you. And I was like, oh, no, he's not going to move. I'm going to punch him right in the face. And it's going to make him fell his test. And he's like, I didn't know what to do. I was just like, it's coming. I put everything into that punch. And he said, and you disappeared. And I was on the floor. And he said, do you remember that? I said, no. He was like, it was amazing. I was on the floor.

Like, how did I get here? And I'm like, whoa. I'm like, are you sure you trying? He was like, bro, I thought I was going to be the reason you failed. And he was like, and then you were just gone. And I was like, wow and I didn't think about anything I just knew my body knew what it needed to do you know I was beyond I was beyond reasoning or thinking through the thing and having to do the thing I had let go just like in that moment I'm like hey I don't care you know I just got to get this done I'm I got to get it turned in Paul so I can do this class I don't care what whatever comes out okay even if I'm probably going to get it wrong all right whatever boom so it's the best one I I ever did.

Two things. Yeah. Stress and letting go. Letting go. So those two factors. That's really interesting. It's almost like this neutral mind state. Yeah.

Under duress. Which, that's a hard combo. Which oddly Jake Barber talked about. That's where I was going. Yeah. That's exactly where I was going. They would induce stress, but also like calm me down. And like, so that's like the pocket.

That's the zone. That's the zone. Wow. Okay. Interesting. All right. Let's get into talking about Let's get into talk about

side games. Yeah. I'm really excited for this. Cy games, pretty much the psychic Olympics is the elevator pitch, as we said, which is amazing. A lot of amazing speakers are going to be there.

Who else you got there? You got Sean Webb's going to be there, Chris Bledsoe. Thomas Campbell, Tom Campbell. Oh, wow, Tom Campbell. Yeah. Diane. Dr. Diane Powell.

Wow. Yeah. So we have some big names. All-Star lineup. Yeah, all-star lineup of people coming to talk and to share and teach like yourself. Yep. Yeah. I'm coming to do some, I'm coming to talk about, you know, some stuff correlating to the art of magic.

And that'll be a lot of fun. But I think for the most part, what I'm mostly excited about is for the very first time, we're going to have or see a competitive psychic event. Can you walk us through what exactly that's going to look like? Yeah. You mean the games themselves? So the games I can't really expand upon just to make sure people don't start like cheating and training for the game.

So we're kind of keeping those secret. But on the website, we do have like a brief synopsis of like. what it might be about and give you some practices that you can do meditatively to kind of help you get better at the skill you will need to. Can you let us know what the, I guess, what the, what the, what the categories are? Yes. So there are five categories and they are remote viewing, mind sight, precognition, psychokinesis, and pendulum dowsing. And so I chose all five of those because they, When more you talk to people, it seems like they kind of share like a common thread between all of them.

Like if you talk about remote viewing, some people think that it has a lot to do with precognition, especially if you get your feedback. You know, you might be seeing your future feedback. Mindsight, if you do that enough, sometimes you don't actually see the item. You actually just know it's a cup. You get what I'm saying? So you're like you got this local awareness, almost like remote viewing would be non-local awareness. You know, you're feeling or perceiving something at a distance. And so, you know, there's those threads.

And so then you got these, we have individual competitions and we have team competitions. And so if you have a team of five people, the person who the team deems is the best that remote viewing will compete in a remote viewing challenges against other individuals from other teams. And if you are the best in mind sight, you know, you would compete in that, you know, the person would choose that. And if you're just an individual and you don't know anybody and you're just like, I do this stuff, but I don't have a team, you can come and you can compete in those different categories against other people who are individuals competing in those categories. So that's kind of how we set it up. And yeah, it's it's the psychic Olympics, man. It's going to be great. So what now here's the thing. When I, you know, when you first hear about this, you might be like, you know, I'm sure some of you're like hyper skeptical. I'm like, hell, I mean, this all just sounds, this all just sounds a little too strange for me.

Yeah. But there is a point in doing this. And I really want you to explain why you're doing this. Yeah. Because it goes beyond just the sort of surface level, what this is, the psychic. It goes beyond that. Yeah. What's the point of doing this?

So that's a really beautiful question. I thank you so much for asking that. Because like you said, we want to take it out at a Hokey realm. and or the woo-woo room, right? And that's the big term now. There's two points or three points, three reasons why I'm doing this. One is I'm a man of action. What's information without action?

So right now you have all of this stuff coming out about NIHs and UAPs and things of that nature. I'm waiting for disclosure, but we have disclosure, but we don't, you know? And so one of the first things is like, well, you don't really, need to, it changes the game when you can actually pick up the phone and dial the person, you know, versus waiting for that person to call you. And to do that, you have to have that number. You have to have that relationship, you know. And so how do we build the skills that we have, the abilities that we have that allow us to really know what we need to know, that knowing, right? And so, well, one way is that we have to know what the standard is. And then we can start.

to build on that, right? And that's one of my last reasons, but I wanted to bring it up first because of where we are and what we're talking about. My biggest reason, first it came as a download and I didn't want to believe that it should be done because I was like, nobody's ever done this before. And that's probably a reason, you know, like, because it doesn't make sense or something. And I'm too busy. And then all these synchronicities kept popping up. where it kept coming back into my life. When you say download through meditation? Yeah, well, it wasn't actually like I was in meditation.

I was in a moment, I guess, of meditation while I was traveling. And it just popped into my head, like, literally, like, as we were talking about muses earlier, or the idea of genius, right? Like, I'm just sitting there and it's like, side games. And I'm like, whoa, who's that? And anyways, and I'm just like, well, what? whoa, you know, like, what is that? Like, oh, and then details about what it could be, why it would be, so on and so forth.

And I'm like, what is this? What's what's going on? I'm looking it up on my phone. Nobody's done anything like this. What? Is that crazy? That's what? I started to say, well, it's too big.

Too big. I can't do it. And then something else would happen. And I'd be like, whoa, okay, that relates back to the side. No, I'm too big. I can't do that. Something else would happen. And I think the final straw.

for me was I was listening to George Knapp and Jeremy Corbell's weaponized. And there was a guy from the DIA who wrote the, he's retired from the DIA, but he wrote Skin Walker's at the Pentagon. Have you read that book? I have not. That's a good book to read. And he was like, and Jeremy Corbell was like, hey, you're talking about NHIs and you're talking about all these abilities and these things, these interdimensional beings, might

have this and they can do this. Isn't that scary? Isn't that like overwhelming? And the guy said, no, I see no fear here. I see no danger here. He said, a matter of fact, and he's like, I can't say everything. He said, but I will say this. If humans could operate at their full potential, we wouldn't have a reason to be afraid. And I was like, side games. I was like, this is why the side games have to happen. We need to know what those potentials are. We need to know who's operating at one of those high levels. And that will inspire the next generation to move forward with getting better. It give people a purpose, a drive, it'll motivate. And this is in a fun way. And our culture, sometimes you say to word competitive, especially in the conscious community. And they're like,

oh, no, competitive. We got to love everybody. And I'm like, yeah, competitive is just a word. And culture you build around that word can be destructive or it can be inspirational. And so the people who are involved in that culture of competitiveness around love and excitement and the celebration of psychic abilities is what allows us to really create a new paradigm, which allows people to feel okay exploring those and growing in those ways. Right. And when you, but, you know, if you just say it's all, you know, it's got to be all flowers and rosy and stuff like that. Yeah, it does. I want it to be love and coherence. And by the virtue of us going inside to become better at those things versus outside doing stuff on the outside, going to the expo and listening to, you know, such and such talk and so on

and so forth, the fact of we're setting people up to want to get better, which means that you have to do more work on the inside of who you are. And all of the stages and everybody talks about that. You know, NIHs and interdimensional beings sound very scary like me playing basketball against Michael Jordan or going into the ring with Mike Tyson. I have no skills to be able to deal with those folks, you know? Like, that's really scary. I don't know. Like, what are they doing? Are they scrambling my brain? But when I've mastered those elements that will allow me to walk in that arena, then it's a different feeling. It's a different feeling. And I only bring that up just as an easy way, not that this is about fighting. I'm just saying that when I have raised my vibration to a

high level to where I see something or I communicate with something, I'm a lot less scared when I know who I truly am. When I'm not sure who I truly am and what I'm capable of and what I'm able to be able to do, then I feel threatened that something else can do something that I feel like I can't do. So how do we, so just like that guy said, if we knew who we truly were and we could explore who we truly are and we were celebrated for it, then we take the next step. And I think, I think, I always say if, because I have my belief, obviously, right, but as a side of guy, I say if NIHs are a real thing, if interdimensional beings are a real thing, then they're probably waiting for us to do the work, you know, to gain the abilities that they say, oh, okay,

these people aren't going to be afraid of me and try to kill me if I show up on the doorstep now. They will know. They will have that knowing. How do I know what this thing is? I just know. How do I know what I'm looking at? All of a sudden, I just know because I've been in this realm of doing the work to get me to have a different way of seeing the world to now I'm not threatened by that. It becomes a threat when it's like just comes out of nowhere and I'm like, I don't know what you are.

Kill it. You know, like shoot that thing, you know. But when I realize I can too walk through walls or I can too be in other places or I can too see things that I'm not supposed to, then it's like, oh, I can do that. You know, that's not really that scary, actually, you know. Let's sit down and have a conversation now. You're pretty interesting. Where are you from? Exorc?

Okay, let's go ahead. Let's have some coffee. Oh, you don't drink coffee? Like, what do you drink? You know, that's a different conversation than, you know, it would be if I don't have that. So my thoughts were, how do I bring this to a community? So I started going to these different events and I'm looking around and I'm following, I'm looking at my teacher and all of the wonderful things that my teacher knows, Paul Smith and the Joe McMonicles and all these folks that I've trained with.

And I'm like, whoa, not only are these people at these conferences older, even the people who are teaching this stuff are older and who've done this research over these years and years and gone through all of the ringer like Dr. Diane Powell where she was losing her medical license because she was like, dude, I'm doing great research. These guys didn't even read her book. They were just like, oh, you're talking about ESP, you're out of here, you know? And then they read it. And then they were like, oh, she's actually done some good research. But that was 10 years later, right? So all these people have this wisdom, this knowledge. And they, you know, by the timeline of what we think, you know, the human body can live or are on their way out, right?

In a couple years, 20 years, hopefully, maybe more. I don't want to wish anything negative on anybody. But just the reality, harsh reality or. not harsh, but the reality of the world is that we have a certain amount of time in this physical realm. And then you have these kids that have these abilities and they're all saying that these youth have these abilities and then they lose it or they shut it off. And then I started looking into why are they shutting it off? Because we don't have an arena or a place that supports that in our society. So it doesn't seem like you can like make a living or you can connect with other.

people in a grand way at that age. Other 15-year-olds and 12-year-olds and 7-year-olds are like, oh, I want to play Tekin or this video game or I want to go play a sport, you know? And then you have this kid that can hear things and see things. And then parents are, back to my experience, you're just making that up. You're faking it. That's not real. Oh, you go to your little karate class.

I don't teach karate, by the way. But most parents don't know. So they're like, you go to your little karate class, put your little blindfold on and play pretend for a little while. That's cool. That's cute. Yeah, go do that. But then at some point, we got to have a real conversation that that's all BS and you can't do that at all. And the only way you're really going to make it in the world is to go out and get a job and do this hard factual thing and then lose that.

And then quite often I was meeting people who now are in their 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, and they have that reawakening. Right. And they say, man, when I was a kid, I could. see-through walls, bro. You don't even understand. I was like seven. I'm seeing people on other side of this wall and I'm trying to tell my mom and they're just like, nah, bro. Yeah. It's not working. So now I shut it off. There's no outlet. Yeah, there's no outlet. I shut it off. And now here I am at 40. And I'm like, no, that was real. That was real. Now I'm back and I'm trying to learn it now. Man, what would the world be like if we had a seven-year-old who had mentorship and support and grew up,

with that knowledge and was getting guidance from the old ones going out, like we talked about earlier. Right. About all the information they accumulated over a lifetime of research and study, helping them move to this next level, right? Yeah, there's something really special about the way that that's structured too, because, you know, we have the James Randy and win a million dollars if you can prove that you're a psychic.

But you're already starting off with a negative. Yeah. You're already starting off with a very skeptical sort of look at it, which is fine. You'd be a skeptic all you want. But in this particular scenario, it isn't encouraging at all when the audience is laughing at you and there's this whole. It's really built against you. And then on the other side of that, you also have what now we're finding out, what we had CE5, which was an encouraging thing. But the goal there was to make contact with aliens and make these lights appear, which again is cool.

And again, that's what we're seeing with the psionics. with Jake Barber. There's no place that really allows you to push forward this idea in a way that is just beneficial for us and not to, you know, not simply to win money or not simply to call aliens or to talk to ghosts or whatever, but it's just human potential. Yeah. And it's encouraging. And, you know, what the beautiful part about this is, is that I know for a fact that no matter what happens, it was for a better cause. It was for the betterment of people. And what's the harm in that? Yeah. You know what I mean? Because the second you do that, you might be very, very surprised by the results. Yes. And then those results, you know, mark my words now, when those results get published and people go,

wait, what's happening at this side games thing? Yeah. These kids are doing what? These people are, huh? They got all that right. Oh, they scored a perfect score on this. What? And then the evidence is there.

The video is there. The data is there because you're doing this in a way that is pretty much, you know, not in a perfect vacuum because, you know, there are, you don't want to do this in a lab because it's no fun. Yeah, yeah. But pretty near. Yeah. And you've even come to me to make sure that there's no way you can cheat on these things.

And as a magician, you know, there's a lot of ways you can cheat a lot of things. So, you know, I've helped you really look at this and you guys have been very vigilant on that. And so right off the gate, you have to get that out of the way. You have to be like, hey, we're taking care of that aspect of it because we want real data. This isn't to support the idea that being psychic is real. This is once we have the data, then we can jump to. that conclusion. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's and you know, there's another thing that I've, I've come across when I've had conversations. And that is, well, why would you want to, I mean,

what does it matter if I could see through walls and stuff? It's like, well, what does it matter if you can jog a mile or not? You know, it's like, why do we have to justify trying to fully embody who we really are as these multidimensional beings? I don't have to justify that. I'm just trying to help you get stronger and grow in your own personal life. Because if we have more people looking on the inside, and this is, that part has been not only talked about by sages all across the world and different religions and backgrounds, that when you look inside and really do the internal work, you are better, not just you, but the people, everybody around you gets benefit from that. So we're motivating people through this very fun and community, you know, community.

environment and getting them to go home and practice. And the way we practice is not by doing physical things in the outside world. The way we practice is by working on our inner self. And so year after year, a seven or eight or a nine year old, and we have an adult division too, so it's not just for kids, it's for adults as well. They're going home and they're working on how to get better at remote viewing. And the way you get better at that is dive deeper into yourself. Yeah, more meditation. Yeah. Self-reflection. I mean, it's just so cool. It's just so, so cool, because, you know, coming up, growing up, I was like, I want to be an X-Men. I'm just putting that out there. I said I wanted to be a ninja at nine. Yeah, dude. I mean, it was, it was like, I want to be a spy or a superhero or a ninja or a magician, anything with like some hidden identity with like cool superpowers. Like that was or gadgets, right? That's what we wanted. And I never really grew out of that.

I don't think you did either. No. So for me, you know, to hear about this stuff, this is like Xavier's school of like, you know what I mean? This is kind of cool. This is like I get to see that in my lifetime. Yeah. I mean, that is way, way cool. And to be able to do that in a way that's fun.

Yes. Encouraging. There's levity. It's, hey, let's cheer this person on who's doing this event or, oh, did you? you see so-and-so score with this and that. I mean, it's just such a cool concept to be able to do. There's no, it's not in a boring, weird lab. You know what I mean? And it's not in a place where people are going to scrutinize you. It's in a place where people are going to encourage you to try. Yeah. And who knows? Maybe that encouragement will even yield better results because we're all

kind of wanting it to happen. Well, it's research out that says that when you do things in play and fun, that you have better results. And there's, there's a scientist who actually was doing psychic research, who said, well, let's just do this from a fun perspective and have people have a good time and do it. And he found that the results were stronger in that environment than if it was like, hey, make sure, you know, you do it this way and this kind of like you said vacuum. And people were still getting decent results, but not as high as when it was from this front perspective. And that's really where we are. And I had an individual approached me once. I was asking him his advice on this because he had wall. this path with some research. And he was like, you know, this country did that with the kids and this country did that with the kids and they were trying to do that. And they found that the kids just lose it after a while and this, that and other. And I said, well, first off, let me be very clear. This is not a military program. This is not about what we can do for our government. And when you're approaching it from that, that if we truly believe energy and intention really can drive

how we, and we do it with money, people say, oh, you want to manifest more money in your life. You have to have that intention. If you want to be a better lawyer, you have to have that intention. The attention you put around things really influences those things. So if this is like this thing, this government thing, you might have different experience than if this is a loving, fun, joyful thing. And if we put the proper intention, we will probably see that if we're talking about heart coherence, like the Heart Math Institute, they're finding that heart coherence and coming from the heart is actually allowing people to have great better lives. It's influencing their health. It's influencing all these things. That ties back to a bunch of sages that said the same thing. And photos we see with

prophets and sages and special people with hearts and halos glowing, you know, this light So if we truly believe that, then that's how we advance is we surround things where people can get together and explore these with that type of love. Yes. With that type of growth and or with that type of love and have that type of growth. And that's what I don't, that has not been done, not in this capacity. Maybe in a small organization where we get 20 people at a time taking class and they all work on that. But I'm saying, hey, all you organizations come together under. one roof. Let's get some researchers in here who have been doing research. Let's get people who can do in here who've been doing. Let's get people who are in between both of those. They do and they do

research. And let's just have us all have this great event where we can talk and communicate and learn and mentor and grow and start different conversations. Because if I feel like you can do, if I'm a researcher and I've never met you or I'm very no, I just need you for the research. that's a horrible conversation for a lot of people. Like, hey, I heard you can do this thing. It's exploitative. Yeah, yeah, I need you to come to the lab so I can test you. Versus, man, Chris, you did amazing.

And I really want to get more data on this so that I can talk about like how it's done and things that, would you help me? You know, and then, oh, well, let's go have, you know, dinner tonight at the, you know, at the downstairs restaurant, you know. And now we forge a real relationship. A friendship. And then we go into the lab and we do to work. Yeah. And now because we have a friendship, all that other stuff hopefully disappears. And now we can really focus on, you know, what can be done and how it can be done versus I'm not really sure about this thing.

Yeah. What's in for me? Yeah. But I heard you can do it. So come to my lab and let's see if you can do it, you know. Yeah. Well, we hook you up to these machines and then tase you to induce stress. And that'll give you some money.

Yeah. But, I mean, there is money here, which is nice, too. There are some prizes. There are prizes. Incentive is always fun. But I think more importantly, it's going to be the bragging rights and be like, hey, you know, according to Saigame, I'm the Cy Games champion. I'm like, that's cool. That's cool to say.

All right. We're going to, by the way, if you guys want to check it out, again, I left the link below to the Sygames. You can check it out at Sygames International.com. And if you use a code, that's a code. below you get 20% off your ticket. And again, I'll be there. I'll be speaking among so many other people. And that's SIE as in PSI, because sometimes people think SIE as PSY or whatever.

So it's PSI Games International.com. All right. We're going to get to some questions from the patrons or sorry, the interns. This is also YouTube members. And we're going to pull those up here in a second. I'm just going to go turn that camera on. Okay. All right.

It's kind of like a game show. Okay. There's a lot of really good questions. I've got like five. I don't know if we'll have time to get through it. Maybe because we're going to do a Patreon episode after, or I keep saying Patreon, an intern extra episode after. And you guys can come watch that. Maybe we'll answer some more there.

But here's the first one. How do you prepare your remote viewing sessions? Meditation, hemisink. What do you do? It's from Blackworks 1301. I think that's a beautiful question. And I can't, it's either Bill Ray or Ingo Swan said you should be able to remote view on the foxhole, right? And this idea that it doesn't matter where you are, what you're doing, the goal is to try to get to a point where you can remote view in not ideal conditions.

Do you say, I need to prepare my eyes so I can go out and see every day or do you just open your eyes and go for it? You know, now there are things to do to strengthen the eye muscles, right? So maybe you can, you know, acquire things faster if you're shooting or something like that. But ultimately, you know, how do you normalize it? So I will, if I do remote viewing and I do my cool down, they call it, you know, it'll be some meditation and maybe a little bit of breath work, some long enough breath work, or even some mana to kind of get me in a balanced state. Right. And so let me explain that. So for those who know yoga, there are three different, you know, energies that you can move to with breathwork and stuff.

And there's Langena, which is like a very relaxed or a relaxing state. And there's some mana, which is very balanced. And, you know, and then there's Brahmanah, which is very energized or energetic. And you can affect those energies based on how you breathe. And so and then what you're focused and intent of your practices. And so I would do like maybe. calm myself with some Langena or I'd go into a very balanced state with Samana. And then I would go into my remote viewing.

But lately, like I said, since I had that experience where, oh, man, I just got to get this homework in, you know, like I just get out of way. Let me just sit down and do it. You know, that has been something that I've had a lot of success with. And also it, but it takes me not being tied to the outcome. Right. You know, so if I'm in, if I'm going in. with the outcome that I want to be successful and everything has to be perfect, then that could

actually, or my experience could hinder my ability to do well. But if I just say, hey, hands up, let's play, you know, let's go, let's do this. That's when the knowing happens. So experiment basically. Yeah, yeah. The knowing happens the most when I'm free to allow things to come to me the way I know they have before. And if they don't, okay, that's cool. But I'm not going to be down on myself because of it. Great answer. And not the answer I expected, which is great. No, yeah. I was like, I'm for sure he's going to like Focus 12 or something. It's good. I like that answer. Okay. Flippity flip asking the real questions here. Okay. Flipety flip. Let's What are ways to protect yourself from SIOP or to detect them? Good. That's a great question.

So the thing that we talked about earlier was to, one, first, you know, I love this question from usual suspects, if you ever watched that. Great movie. The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was making the world believe he didn't exist, right? And so you, you as an individual, pull the wool over your own eyes to start with. And that is by saying, I know everything or I know what I, you know, my facts and the way I see the world is the way it is. versus saying the way I see the world could still be a little off, you know. And the way I'm viewing this, because it's filtered through the way I see the world and my brain does all these things to kind of make movement through life easier, where it has all these patterns and things. And I could be moving through attentional blindness or inattentional blindness.

And, you know, so I have to be first aware that I have those hooks, you know, and that I could be hooked by emotion or something like that. So I have to step back and say, oh, is this my hook talking? So recognize your own hooks. Recognize your own hooks. That's the first. And then the other is I have to cut out the middle person, the middle media, right? What is that a newspaper or my blog or vlog or Twitter or whatever? I have to get to you and have the conversation and say, well, what is it that you're thinking versus me going through this process of saying, well, this piece of information has to be true because we really don't know.

right? You could go to a person that you think resonates with you and that they seem like they give good information and then find out down the line that that person's getting like $10 million a year from some corporation through a shell company, you know, like, and then you're like, oh, no. Or USAID. Yeah, basically, right? To help influence, you know, in this way because and maybe they're not as aware or or or folks. focused on who they're dealing with as you thought they were, you know. So those two things, I think, are really powerful. Okay. And the other is whenever you're watching something and you start feeling an emotion or you start landing on something, pause, and that's when you need to really think about it. So if something is influencing, you're watching a news broadcast and it's making you angry.

That's the time for you to pause and stuff. back and say, whoa, or making you like super empathetic or sympathetic. Right. Whoa, man, I feel so bad for that person, you know, like maybe. So, yeah, they're really playing off that cancer or whatever. Like, you know, like, they'll hit you in the heartstrings sometimes. Like, wait. There was a, there's actually, it's funny you say that.

There was a, the Super Bowl. I was looking at some of the ads, Pfizer. Yeah. They had like a really great ad, you know, regardless of how you feel about a giant pharmaceutical, you know, conglomerate. But they had like, yeah, it was like all about this kid. It was like fighting cancer. And like he was like like a boxer.

And he was like, run. And he was cancer free. And the nurses were crying. And like he got back to his family. And it's like suit. And then at the end, she's like Pfizer. And I'm like, I'm like, you can't be mad at that. Right.

I'm in favor of this kid not having cancer. Even though maybe I don't like Pfizer. Yeah. You know what I mean? So they play on your emotions like that. because at the end of the day, you know, maybe we're not talking about that. Maybe we're talking about something else. So, you know, it's good to recognize.

That's a good point. Like, if you're feeling emotional, like, if you're, that means they've got you by the hooks. They've got you. Yeah, I was watching a commercial because this is that time where you're looking for donations, right? So it was for like this pet, you know, place that helps rescue pets. And the lady comes on there and she's like, and there's all these pets and they're all sad and they're chained up and they're this. And she's like, instead of you. just saying, hey, these pets need your help.

She's like, these pets need your help. And I was like, and she's like, like she's crying on the other end of this thing, right? And I'm just like, oh my gosh. And it's got the little dog and he looks so sad. And you know, you know, producers like, give us another one, but like more sad plays this time. And she's like, okay, less sad than. Exactly. So if you're watching that and you have an attachment to dogs and you hear this lady's voice,

that sadness that they're relaying to use through her voice, that there's this compounding what we call sci act. I don't know what we got into it, but there's sci op, which tends to be more long-term, what you would do to influence. And then there's the actions that are being done. So sci-acts that are being done to create the sci-op.

I see. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, the individual components. Components, yeah. So the small things that you do to help you, like an advertisement, advertisement would be a sci act for the long-term goal of getting people to donate to that monica system. In magic, we call it subtleties.

So if, you know, if I was to say like, hey, check this out, I'm going to make this disappear and I go like this and it's gone. You know, eventually you'd figure out that I just threw it on my lap type deal. Yeah. But, you know, the subtlety to make it better would be this would already had to be on the table. It's weird that I put it down first and then took it, picked it up again. That's insane. Only an insane person would do something like that. So why is it on the table?

Yeah. That's what we got to think about as a magician. Why is it on a table? Maybe I did this and I was writing over here. And now I'm thinking about something. And I'm like, you know what? Check this out. And now I do it.

Right now there's a little bit of a justification. We call those subtleties. Yeah. There's actually something called the Ramsey subtleties. And I didn't event this. John Ramsey is a coin magician. But like if you're, if you're palming something, to be able to hold something.

This is a Ramsey subtlety. Even though I have this in Palm, I want to hide it, so I'm going to hold something or I'm going to gesture like this, and this is a subtlety. So these little things that really, like, create that illusion.

Yeah, yeah. It's funny that you should say that because, you know, again, that's in SIOP, that's setting the stage, right? But, you know, these little subtle things that you do to kind of get the mind to adjust to what you're trying to do over time is very important.

And there's a book out that one of the books that we got was called Influence by Robert Colini, I believe his name is. And that was like a Bible, right? And looking, reading that book, reading that book. I have that book. And then he came out with a new book called Presuasion, where he did a lot of research and put a lot of research in this thing where it talks about setting up the persuasion, all right, with presuasion.

Right? Or actually, I think it's persuasion was that book. There's another book called influence. And then this, so presuasion are the things you do to set up the persuasion. You, you, so put the cap on the table beforehand, you know, and then come to it and then make it disappear versus taking the cap off, drawing my attention to it, then making it disappear, you know, it's like that why. Yeah, which also is a thing we have, and a friend of mine who's special forces, what, you know, brought that up to me one day. We were talking about some overlapping the things that we did. And he said, you know, whatever I'd go to an area and I see somebody just, one of the ways you can spot somebody who might be a tailing you or something like that, is to ask yourself, why is that person there, right? So if you see somebody standing on the corner or you got five people out here standing on the corner, immediately in your mind go to why everybody. is there. So nobody just stands on the corner normally. So if I see this person, why are they? Oh, they're about to get the trash. Oh, he's waiting for his girlfriend to come out of the house. Oh, that guy's about to smoke a cigarette. Oh, this person, you know, so your brain will go through the

whys. In the minute, the brain says, oh, there's a why that isn't being fulfilled. That's the red flag. And so then, of course, spies learn how to create good whys, right? Why would I be here? It's exactly like a magic trick. I'm telling you, we think about this stuff more than anybody knows. It's really, you're getting into the really, like, when you jam with magicians, I go on a retreat every year with some of the best magicians in the world

for like a week in Spain. We went to house every year. And we just go through like this stuff. We just talk shop. And, you know, the justifications and the subtleties and the whys are very, very important. It's the difference between a good trick and a great illusion. Like, I mean, if you have somebody doing something

and every single move that they do is justified, then there's no red flags popping off in your head subconsciously. Yeah. And it helps strengthen the magic. Because if I'm here and, you know, and I'm standing and I'm like this, you know, you're like, why is his hand like that? Yeah. Why?

Right? So my hand has to be natural. Yeah. Okay. So my hand's natural. But why is my hand out here at all? My hand should be down here. Yeah.

My hand should, I shouldn't be doing that, you know? And so there's all these, we answer the why's. All the time. Why did you just do that little move? Why did you pivot that way? Why did you? And so very, very cool. Yeah. Again. Keep them coming. All right. We got, oh, this is good. Not quite human. So he's on our, you know, he's part of our Discord. And he actually does weekly remote viewing sessions for the interns. So if you're ever interested in remote viewing and you're an intern, you can hit not quite here. human up and he's he's learning he knows nothing about it he's a tasker and so he's got a lot of questions if ever by the way if you ever have time to hop on our discord okay for like a Q&A I know this guy would be very thankful he'd have a million questions for you let's do it let's set that up here's his question it's a pretty good question he had like four questions he was so excited what are your tips for remote viewing taskers oh that's an interesting one because

I'm not I'm not a tasker per se do you do you do you Do you know any, like any tips that you might be able to give him? If you're tasking, make sure that you are. So one of the things they figured out, this, again, is my perspective. But one of the things they figured out in the past that if you don't give specific times, you know, like if you don't say, hey, we need for your monitor to give you this number, but we want to task it for this specific timeline. Then just like Joe McMonicle, who you interviewed, you can end up a thousand years in the future or a thousand years in the past. And if I'm not looking at that timeline, then I can be giving you information that is correct, but it's at the wrong time. Does that make sense?

So for you, you're like it's wrong. But it actually is right, but it's just at a different time. Because sometimes the remote viewer's mind will jump at the most interesting thing that happened in that place. Right. The most entropy or the most like, yeah. So if you're, but if you want to know what's happening there now, then you should say when to the monitor, hey, when you give this information, make sure that you ask like what's happening there right now. Or what's going to be happening? What happened on the moon a million years ago?

But you don't say the moon, obviously. But you're saying here's the coordinate or whatever, seven, five, six, blah, blah, blah. and, you know, tell me what happened there at that coordinate a million years ago, you know, and then the task, I mean, then their remote viewer would be like, oh, okay, got it. Let me go. And then, but, you know, so that would be one aspect of it is that when you're tasking that person. The other thing that I would say, too, is know who your remote viewers are and what they're good at. So some remote viewers are good at giving you colors and shapes. And some remote viewers are good at giving you, like, really quality, like, drawings and ideograms. Like me, all my drawings look like chicken scratch, you know, so I'm not the guy you need sketches from, you know? Like, I'll, you need to get somebody to discern just the sketches. So it's a whole other step if you want that.

But I'm the guy that, you know, you might get some good descriptors from, you know. And so, or I can give you, I can do really, I do really well on colors, but I don't do good on shapes, you know. And so know who you're dealing with, just like you would in any other type of, you know, operational environment, even in SIOP. You know, some people were really good at coming out with radio ads or things that should be on the radio. Some people were more visual, so they were better at coming up with things that might be on the television, you know. So, and then you should be tasked based on your strength, not your weakness. Okay. Great. Great answers. I'm sure he'll appreciate that.

And I'm sure, I mean, anything, he seems very passionate about this removing stuff, which is really cool to see. All right, we have Tess here. This is a great question. I like this question a lot. And after that, we'll hop into the extra. Tess asks, what is the most unusual slash surprising way you have utilized to your expertise? Oh, my gosh. I don't know.

That's a great question. Because I don't have a timeline. She was supposed to give me a time at what point. Which one stands out? So I think, and I guess it depends on if it's my expertise as a ninjitsu practitioner or as a sciop. Or a survival. Or a survival experience. Yeah, yeah.

I think those things are so many different rounds. So let's pick one. Yeah. Let's pick. You know what? go for survival. Because most people, you know, we didn't talk about that at all, but you're like a survival expert. You were on naked and afraid, which is an insane concept for a show, by the way. They just drop you off naked somewhere and they're like, good luck. I was on First Man Out and the Tibetan Plateau in China and race to survive Alaska. I was in the wilderness and wilds of Alaska. So, yeah, it's been quite a bit of things. Okay. So bearing that in mind. I think that's a great, and I have an answer. Okay.

Now that you say it. So when it comes to survival, one of the ways that I tend to look at things a little more uniquely as I use the ninja elemental structure. And that helps me work within nature, with nature, and not against nature. So I remember watching a show once, I'm not going to say what, but I remember watching a person, and they were like, I'm going to make nature my bitch, you know. Like, they're like all like into it. And for me, that's not it.

So the ninja were masters at being able to fit in, right? Our power as modern day ninja, but the power as past ninja, was not to force my will onto you, but how do I allow you to create your own destruction? And that's really challenging for people because we like to resist and do stuff, right? So now you're telling me, no, I'm letting you do stuff. And that, in doing that, it creates the openings for me to win. Right? Right.

Just like probably, you know, with magic. You're finding out where their opening is, that gap. So you can get in there and do. The offbeats. Yeah. And so when I'm in the wild, using this ninja mentality of the elements means that I understand how the elements interplay with each other. So, and I use that all.

So I used that for SIOP too, and I was not taught to me at the schoolhouse. This was taught to me by Ninjitsu. And that made me unique again, was that we say that Earth interacts, the way Earth interplays with, let's say, water. So if I have a water mentality, let me take it from the human den to the nature, if I have a water mentality, a person who is scientific, who likes to think through things, who's very reflective, so on and so forth, And I want to control that. Then I would look at how Earth controls water in nature. Oh, well, you can have troths. You can have a waterway or a stream.

And so you form the dam. You form these things to help you guide the water. Whoa. Right? That's awesome. So then if I want to get a water mindset person, then I have to find solid means of helping guide them. And because they're scientific and they like to analyze, I have to set up things for their

analyzation, their analytical mind to then want to move in that direction, right? Now, let's say you're vice versa. Earth, super strong, stagnant. I'm there, right? Well, how does water deal with Earth? Well, it erodes it over time. So now I have to use my analytical mind to wear it down. wear it down. How do I wear this down? And so if it's a relationship, maybe I don't want to

wear down my partner, but maybe I keep making these suggestions and showing that partner like how it would be better if we did it this way because of this. And it actually weakens without water too. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Oh, dude, this is so cool. Right. So then I love this. So then when I'm in nature and I say, oh, man, I see the sky. It's about the rain on me and it's going to be super cold tonight. And going to do all this stuff. Okay, I have two means of dealing with this. Well, I would use fire, but if it's going to rain, the rain might put out the fire. So I need a barrier so against the water. So I'm going to make a shelter. You get what I'm saying? And the shelter is going to be able to keep the water out. But I need to keep my heat in. So I'm going to make insulation. So I'm going to use earth to help me keep the heat in as though I would have a fire.

ring around a fire pit or a or like we would make a chimney to reflect the heat back into the thing. So I need to keep that contained. So how do I do that? Oh, I'm going to put insulation here by putting debris on it. And I'm going to use earth that way. So when I see how the elements interact and how they can stop or progress or move one another, then I can now start thinking scientifically about what I need in that particular way and interplaying with the environment as the environment. as the environment knows how to interplay with itself.

So good, dude. That's so good. It's so much food for thought for me. Like, because that's fat, you know, especially when you're like, oh, water person, that's their type. And then you can use the other elements depending on, like, oh, my God, this is so practical. Yeah. So practical.

I'm going to add one thing to that. Sure. I think you'll like it. So then we see normally we'll have the elements signed up in a row, right? And so it's linear. But it really isn't. It's not even circular. It's more spherical, right?

So the elements of how they play are moving around each other in a sphere-like thing. And they transition into one another. So water transitions into fire in order for water to be effective in this interplay. And so when we look at it from personality-wise, we say, well, water is scientific, analytical. But as we were saying earlier, what's information in science? and analytics without action and fire is action. So I transitioned from this stage of fluidity and looking at things from different angles to,

okay, now it's time to make something happen and bring it out in a world. Okay, what do I need for that? I need fire. And then I say, oh, okay, well, now I have this action, but I only have so much energy and I'm losing that. I need more, I need more than just my mind. So then I call in Wynn, which is going to help feed this flame.

Yeah. Right. But if I call in too much win with no fuel, it'll burn me out. So I need to get some earth people in here who like stability to help me have a good foundation while I continue to move with passion to bring this thing into existence and use to win people to help feed me to help me grow that to the next level. Beautiful. And so there's. this interplay between them. And we all have one or two elements that we kind of live in. And then we branch out into the other ones as we have engagements and as we have to, we find new ways.

Because, you know, I'm normally a win person. But I have been an earth. I have had to operate from earth because I need stability at times. You know, I need to know that my business is going to be open tomorrow and things need to happen. And so that means I just can't always be out in the world doing and what I want in creating. I have to have some solidity. So those, that interplay helps me look at everything. You know, I look at in relationships with people, but I also look at my relationship with the world in that same way. And so that from a, you know, from my expertise, that is one of the most unique ways that I found to be able to be successful in the wilderness is not by trying to force my humanism on nature, but recognize the nature within my nature.

Wow. Beautifully said. That is amazing. I think we're going to end that there. There's a better way to end that. That's so poetic. Hakeem Isler, man, you are such an inspiration. You're so great.

I love your magic. I love your energy. I wish you great success with this project. I know it will be a success in many ways. And if you guys want to check out what Hawking's does I'll leave some links below you guys can check those out and if you want to join us we're going to keep this conversation going take a quick little break go to go to the bathroom here but we're going to go in overtime into the intern only uh episodes so if you guys want to watch that

click the join button or go to patreon dot com slash area 52 investigations thanks for thanks for hanging out with us thanks ike you're welcome thank you