AREA52 - DEBRIEFED With Chris Ramsay - He Encountered Beings at the Nuclear Missile Facility - Mario Woods | ep. 94

Episode Date: July 3, 2026

AREA 52 Shop: https://www.area52.shopTickets To the Live Show: https://itsprobablynothing.com/Former USAF Security Policeman Mario Woods reveals his jaw-dropping 1977 close encounter at Ellsworth Air Force Base's nuclear missile site. While responding to a security alarm at November 5 silo, he and his partner encountered a massive spherical craft the size of a Walmart, flashing lights, and non-human beings that paralyzed them.From childhood saucer sightings with his mother to this life-changing event (with lost time), Mario shares raw details of the beings, the craft, the smell, and the cover-up. One of the most credible military UFO testimonies ever.Featured on multiple podcasts and recently interviewed by AARO. Must-watch for anyone interested in UFOs, UAP, alien abductions, and government disclosure.

But he said one thing that floored me, man. To the pits of my stomach, he said, but I remember your glove on a shiny floor. Mario, let's back off again. I answered all of his questions. It was very difficult because I had, like, a lot closer reaction of proximity to what was on the right side of our vehicle, to these beings on the right side of the vehicle.

I mean, I literally, I never looked my heartbeat, but um. Okay, so he was in control. So how tall was the tall one? The six one. I mean, the little guys did, probably. When I realized what I was looking at is when I really just went. Some of those visions are almost indescribable. Really large what?

Craft. Craft. realized was that realization, oh my God, aliens? Yeah. What happened that night on November 5? Was up close and absolute personal. And no matter whether they ever hear me or not, I live with that. Whenever I was 13, I woke up in my bedroom because my light turned on.

and I just clicked right on. I was the only one in the house besides my mom who was in bedroom down the hall, and she was asleep, positive I could hear her snoring. And then after my light turned on, my door started opening by itself. I thought, but actually then I saw a hand on the door. It had long fingers, very thin hand, and I thought I was having a nightmare, but then I was pinching myself and, you know, slapping myself, and I would realize I am not asleep.

And I saw how thin its arm was. I got freaked out. I was like shocked. I was very scared. I was on my futon. I tried to stand up. It was really hard to do. But whenever I stood up, like I felt like I was pushing against like a force that was trying to like hold me down. And then whenever I saw its face and its body, it was about my height and I was about five foot nine. It was skinny gray, you know, big head, almond eyes, slip mouth, two little holes on the nose. And yeah, it started coming toward me. And I remember thinking I'm going to hit him right in the head. And as soon as I started thinking that, I heard it in my head, no, you won't. And it started walking toward me very slowly. And the closer it got, the more I

couldn't, like, move. I actually had a fist, and I was pulling it up in the air trying to come at him. And then I thought, I'm going to hit him. And then I'm going to elbow him. And he said, no, you're not. And it got really close, and it tapped me on the forehead very slowly. And as as soon as he did, I felt electrocuted, like, vibrating like crazy. And then everything went black. This is such a great set. It's a trip, right? Yeah, it is. When you got here, I'm sorry, I'm going to shut my phone off here.

Yeah, mine's in there. I don't have it with me. I don't want it in here with me. Boom, done. No more disturbances. It'll have to wait. If the world burns, it'll just have to burn. Let it burn.

Do you doodle a lot? Sometimes, yeah. It's more like a, You know, like Mayan figurines and stuff. Oh, yeah. You know, it's just something I do. Do you do that before? Yeah.

I mean, before it happened. Yeah, before 70, what, 77? No, I really didn't. Sometimes I'll just do a whole page. Really? Oh, yeah, I'll just do a whole page. And it doesn't really make any sense to anybody. It doesn't even make sense to me.

I just had to put these designs in, you know. Just cathartic. Yeah, just following stuff. You can be a sec, Murray. I forgot my note. I'm going to grab those. Oh, okay. Find myself doodling sometimes as well.

Oh, yeah. Got to you, man. Got to you. It's fun. There's a tactile sort of compulsion sometimes that you got to just. Yeah. I do it while I'm editing and I'm waiting for something to render. I'll just mindlessly doodle.

All right. You ready to get started? Yeah, I guess when I think about it, I don't do as well as I do if I don't think about it. So I'll just leave that over it. Right. You can leave wherever you want. You can doodle. We can spend this whole time doodling.

Whoa. Ladies and gentlemen, today I'm joined by former USAF security responder. Your position exactly was a security. It was police, right? Yeah, security police. Security police. Folks, this is Mario Woods. Now, he's been featured on multiple podcasts.

His story's been talked about. It's an incredible, incredible story about not only his encounter. one of the most incredible encounters I've ever come across at Ellsworth Air Force Base in 1977. Correct. And it's, I mean, for so many reasons, Mario, you're just, you're a wealth of knowledge. You're someone with the sharpest memory and recall that I've ever spoken to. We spent some time at dinner last night. Yeah.

And you're rattling off dates and numbers. Like, I have, I've got a notepad here just to make sure that I say the right thing, but your memory is incredible. And we're going to get into that because there's also a whole sort of rigorous discipline around someone working around these sensitive nuclear sites that you have to abide by, the personal reliability program, PRP, which is, you know, a whole thing that folks like yourself have to subject themselves. to in order to be mentally stable enough to work around these things, which makes you, sir, in my opinion, one of the most credible witnesses to the UFO contact phenomenon that I've ever had the honor of speaking to. So thank you for joining me today. Thank you. It's an absolute honor to be here. I love your set. I just can't believe the work you've done. And it all means such good things, you know, really we need to know and we need to set up for these things just like what

you've done, I just, it's incredible. Just to see what you've done here. I appreciate it and having me. Thank you. Margie, you mind pulling your chair in just a little bit? Just want to get you close to the microphone. You got such a lovely voice. Don't, don't be shy. You got to, if all else fails, you got a disc jockey somewhere within you in a previous life, I think, or something. I don't know. You got a really good voice for radio. Unlike myself, I've got a face for radio. But you do have a voice. You do have a voice. Yeah, well, it comes now. It comes now. naturally to you, sir. So I do want to get into obviously what happened alongside, is it Michael Johnson? Michael Johnson, correct. On that event, that faithful night in November, November 18th,

1977. But prior to that, I want to take you back to your childhood. And I want to start there. I want to see if there's anything to glean from, you know, your childhood. Do you remember how, having vivid encounters or strange dreams or just occurrences, not only with you, but with your direct family members as a child. What's something that stands out? Well, 1961, my mother was taking me to school at DeQueen Elementary in Port Arthur, Texas, and my sister was in the backseat. She was four.

I was six. I think just turned six. I think as a school year starts, you know, like in August, I turned six in September. And anyway, as we approach the school on D. Queen Boulevard, which is still there today, I've been back and looked at it and just sat there in awe from what I saw that morning. And we were about the fifth car back in line and to the drop-off point. You know, I'm just a young kid not thinking anything, just doing my thing, going to first grade. and all of a sudden my mother in the driver's seat, of course, she goes,

look, Anthony, there's flying saucers. Just as we're talking, just plain as day. And I went, where? I remember saying that, where? And I leaned forward and I grabbed the dashboard because back then, you know, we didn't have seatbelts like there are today. And we were now, I think we were in an impalistation wagon. Oh, plenty of playing room back there.

Yeah, my sister was in the backseat and behind my mom. And she said right there, look, she looked pointed to her left. So I leaned over toward where she was. And as I did, I could see three craft. And they were only maybe 50 feet, 75 max in the air. And they were directly over this church that is now gone. And it had three steeples over the, you know, below these craft. And they were the most beautiful white silver saucers with a dome on top and a dome on bottom

and the light going around the center outermost rim of it. glass down? No, no. Same color, white, silver. Okay. As the rest of the craft, the only color difference was, were these lights that went around them, and they were all in, they were synchronous on all three craft. And I was just like, wow, I mean, I don't even have words for what we were seeing, basically. And my mom, she popped the door open, and when she did, I went behind her, and my sister, she did say in the backseat, she goes, mom, I'm scared. My mother said, quote, she goes, don't worry, honey, they're not here to hurt you. Whoa.

Plain as day. I'll never forget that statement. My mother's been past many years and never forgotten that. And so when she got out, I just went across the seat right behind her and grabbed her by the hand. My sister opened or she opened my sister's door and she got out and she grabbed my mom by the hand. But we were just one of many because everybody were exiting their vehicles. They were all in line.

And I don't know exactly how many cars there were. I just do know that we were about fourth or fifth back in the line because I could count then. And additionally, the school was one of those buildings that was a single school from elementary or kindergarten all the way up to 12th grade. So the upperclassmen, of course, their school, their classes were upper level. But as I looked on the playground, which was blocked off, it was a whole playground directly across from Dequeen Elementary. It was still there. They had monkey bars and all that kind of stuff.

But everybody met there in the morning. It was just full of kids. And every eye and every hand and every finger was pointing up or looking at these things. And from where I was, I was probably 100 yards away from where they were located. And the school was probably 70 yards. So that difference, you know, I'm just trying to equate the distance because I have gone back and looked at it and tried to stand right where our car was. I tried to really put, because those houses are all still there.

The sidewalks are all still there. Everything is still there. So there were people pointing out the windows because there was no AC back that time. And the windows were open, the wooden frame windows, and people were pointing out of them. And we just stood there staring at them, you know, 45 seconds, minute, minute and a half. And then all of a sudden, they just, boom, straight up, out of sight, clear blue sky, if there had been clouds that had punched holes in them, because they were just gone and they were gone in under a second.

They didn't disappear. They moved. They went straight up. Instantly. Instantly. How fast would you? How fast was the fastest thing we have that can leave the atmosphere today? You know, say our best rocket.

It takes, what, a minute or something, two minutes? These never gone in seconds. They were literally out of our atmosphere in a second, if that. They were so fast. It was incredible. And there was nothing, as I know aeronautics now, there was nothing like a wind blast. No rotor wash or like anything like that. It was just and just gone, instantaneous, just like Lou says. Do you remember a reaction to that? My reaction? Or like a general gestalt? Yeah, it was like, holy smoke, you know, as a kid.

Do you hear people saying, whoa, my God, and like these type of things? My mother did. But the strangest thing about. that whole incident and all those people that saw it in school, nobody said a word the entire day about the whole thing. Any teachers, nobody said a word about it. It just went on like nothing happened. It was like it was forgotten about. Why do you think that is? I have no idea. Do you think it was the technology or the being somehow, or was it just the time and the taboo? Because you hear that a lot with people that are just like, yeah, we didn't talk about it. It's just, you know, one brought up. It may be something that they can do over a broad area below them, people that are seeing them or something.

And whatever, what that's for, I have no idea why they would do that. But it seemed, it didn't cause a calamity. People didn't run for their cars and, you know, let's go get, you know, whatever. And haul out. Nobody left. Everybody just went back to what they were doing. Kids went back to plane on the playground. I went up.

My mother, I got back in the car. You know, my sister did, and we pulled up and she let me out, and she went on, you know, home. Have a good day. And I went into school and, you know, and nobody said anything about it the whole whole day. And I've been back to Port Arthur and the museum. There's a museum there. It's right now near next to the port. I was working for a shipping company out of Norway then, so that's how I ended up going back there several times.

And Janice Joplin, she was a renowned artist there. It was from that area. I'm familiar of Janis Joplin. And her Volkswagen's in there are her port. and there are her pores. Really? Or Kerman Gia, I think, is what it is. It's inside that museum.

But I went through all these archives and all these newspaper clippings and all this back to that time in 1961, and I couldn't find anything. And I have searched and search. I've sent out search messages to people, you know, that look for things, you know, like Michael Johnson. You know, I've got friends that are helping me search for him still after all these years.

But it was nothing written that I've ever found. Do you remember the month? Well, yeah. I'm pretty certain that it was. was like a right after school started like in August. Okay, September, August, September around there. Yeah, August and September. Call to action for the audience listening, Port Arthur, 1961, August, September, do your thing, internet.

You know, maybe we can collectively find something out here. It's got to be written about it because that wasn't the only time that things were seen there. I've been told. Usually there's always, yeah, we had Preston Dennett here not too long ago. He's a researcher as well. Lovely man. He sent out a challenge to his audience. And he goes, I challenge you to name me the smallest town that you can find on the map of the United States.

And I will find a sighting there. And he did. He's like batting 100 on the tiniest towns. Yeah. So you'd be surprised. Wow. So about your mother, that comment, I mean, in. They're not here to hurt you.

Yeah. In retrospect, what do you make of that? Well, she was from Rocky Mountain, North Carolina. And her and her sister Esther, who's now passed, when they were little girls, they saw, you know, they were always in the woods. I mean, they, you know, they had, what, five sisters and four brothers in the same family. So they were always out in the field. It's not like today's teenagers and kids, you know. They'd seen things at night on the front porch of their house and questioned them.

And she said, you know, these weren't. They weren't aircraft. They weren't airplanes. But they would just be there and just vanish, literally, just take off so fast that it was indescribable. When your mother was a child. When my mother was a child. It's pre-1940, so we're not talking satellites or anything. Yeah, right.

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Just head to Hexclad.com slash Area 52. Support our show and check the message. out at H-E-X-C-L-A-D.com forward-slash Area 52. Make sure to let them know that we sent you. And even when I remember, you just triggered a memory there, when Sputnik was launched, when Russia launched Sputnik, we were out in our front yard and on Janelle Street in Tampa, Florida. 509 Janelle plays. Never forget it. Love that house. And we saw Sputnik going over. And then I think W-T-V-T-Channel 13, they said that you could see, satellite pass overhead.

It was like 9 or 10 o'clock at night or something. So, Mom, let us stay up. We could go outside and see it. And my dad was there. And he was a merchant seam and he was usually a C. But he happened to be home this time. And we stood out on the front porch. You know, there's no ambient light back then.

I think there was a street light at the way into the corner, that kind of thing. And that was it. My mom said something to the effect. She goes, when she sees it, she goes, well, she goes, That thing, it'll take a long time for that to come back around. She goes, that's so slow compared to other things that I've seen in the sky at night.

She said that? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So there's clearly, Mario, there's clearly a history with your mother. Well, my dad's even different, because he was from Benaka, Honduras. And being at sea. Yeah, he's been going to sea since he was freaking 12 years old or something, you know.

I mean, one of those places where if you see anything, you know it's not us, right? Like when you're in the middle of the ocean or whatever, you, yeah, yeah. There's nothing flying, hovering in the middle of the ocean. You need a battery, you need a, you know, you're not getting anywhere. Or entering the ocean or coming out of the ocean or out of the atmosphere. Yeah. And he was never alone any time he ever told me about those things. And, you know, honestly, I really, in my early teenage years, I never really paid much attention to him.

you know, talking about some of the things they would see undersea and that kind of thing, under the water, you know, while he's on a trip. Because this was one time he's gone like a, he was gone a year, really 13 months. And he would, you know, he would tell me about all these things that, you know, they'd see in the sky or, you know, under the water, these, you know, great points of light, he called him. He didn't say what they were. He never said there was an object or a craft of any shape or design.

He said, but there are things that we don't know about. And they've always been here. And that's, that was his wording exactly. And he died real young. But, wow. Yeah. And then when he was growing up as a boy, he told me that him and his brothers and his cousins were playing literally in the jungle.

And there's Mayan ruins everywhere. You know, just not one particular area. Honduras. Yeah. And in this part of Banaka, Honduras. There's so many. And I don't even think it's called Banaka anymore. I don't know if it's a Rotan or I'm really not sure.

I've never been there. So he said, but they were all playing out in the jungle. You know, we say the woods, they say the jungle, because it really is a jungle down there. And they saw this tall, red-headed guy with long red hair, super white skin, and he wasn't walking. He was floating through the jungle. And they all hid behind these items to watch him. And he stopped and he turned around and looked back toward them. And then they freaked out and took off running.

They weren't maybe 30 feet from him or something. But he made no noise. And he had on robes. He didn't have on regular clothes. He had on roads. And I just took that and threw it out. I just looked at my dad and I said, okay. Yeah, what are you going to do with that?

Nothing. Nothing. I wish I'd have paid more attention to him, you know, really. That's probably a reason, though. You know, you ignored that stuff so much until you couldn't ignore it. You know, now looking back on it, you might, you might kick yourself and say, oh, I should have listened. But at the same time, you don't have a history with this stuff.

And that's what makes it so fascinating that you had these sightings. It's not like you were chasing UFOs when this happened to you. But UFOs seem to be chasing you. Yeah, I don't know. I do know that when I went to the missile field, I first of all, when I first got my assignment out of Lackland Air Force Base after basic training and airbased ground defense and all the other things that we go through, when I saw South Dakota, I thought,

where in the hell is elderth Air Force Base? So, you know, it was a rapid city and then, you know, I kind of put the two together and looked on the map and knew Mount Rushmore was there, so I'd have to see that. But my first week and a half in the missile field

out there, when I saw those stars at night out in the middle of those prairies, because this was all Buffalo running territory, you know, and there's no ambient light, there's no, there's no towns, there's nothing. There were things there were things that you could see moving in the sky. Now, I don't know what they,

I don't know there were satellites or what they were, but I just had a strange feeling back then. Before any of this ever happened, you know, what happened on November 5. I just knew something. There was a correlation between nuclear rockets and these visitors. I just knew there was a connection between them.

I don't know what they're, I don't know why they're looking at this stuff. and these sites, but it's all Maelstrom, Minot, Ellsworth, which is, you know, was decommissioned, I think in, I think in 91, when the missile field was decommissioned, but the aircraft, the aircraft side of it's still active, of course. And I did mention Minot. So those are the three, you know, ICBM sites that are still active today.

And I just never, I never could understand why they get away with Ellsworth. It kind of bothered me a little bit. That might have been a precursor. But it was more than just my sighting there that did occur. And I think the bad part about it is it was before a time, the Air Force or really the Army, the Navy, the Coast Guard, anybody really had a good handle on what was going on. because these things are being seen and have been seen. And, you know, since before Robert Salas' time, I mean, really, in over-Los, Salamis, Sandia. And I've been to both of those facilities, Oak Ridge, Y-12, K-25, Pantax.

I mean, there's just... As a security police officer? Yeah, well, in a security inspector capacity with Department of Energy, but as a security policeman in the Air Force, yes. You were stationed at those, or were you just... No, no. just at Air Force bases. I'm just saying overall in general. But you've been to all these places.

Yeah. You've been to, you even told me yesterday at dinner, you were likely in Los Alamos at the same time Bob Lazar was. I have a strange feeling now. I was at the Sierra 450 area, and there was a scientist there that they kind of put me with. I wouldn't know if you call it a bodyguard or something like that, but I was assigned to him. And his last name was Bishop.

And I was in a control room when an element was or a test burst was being conducted. And, of course, we had to, you know, we had to set up a two-mile, entry control area. Two-mile? Yeah, two miles away. I mean, for radiation purposes and that type of thing. Okay. I mean, these areas are that vast. And, you know, I thought it was really cool because besides being in that control room,

similar to this right here when that happened, but being out in the 450 area, again, it's so vast. I found pieces of pottery, beautiful pieces of Indian pottery. And there's the caves that the Indians could dig into the rock face. I mean, with a spoon, you could dig a condominium as big as you and as vast as you wanted. And they did that. So I was picking up all this pottery and then come to find out, you know, because we have Geiger counters in our vehicles. It was all radioactive.

So I had to get rid of this stuff. I thought, I'll bring this home, sewed this off, you know. And so, oh, I'm not doing it. So anyway. So I, wow. So you've, yeah, you've clearly frequented a lot of, of the most secretive, I mean, highly secureized sort of compartmentalized facilities in the United States. Like, that was your job. Yeah, I had a great time to do that.

You were armed as well? Oh, absolutely. What do they give you? All the time. We carry different weapons for different areas, you know, like in an inside of a laboratory area, you wouldn't want to carry an MC. or an M4 or an MP5, silence. But, you know, because there's things that if you did engage an adversary, you don't want to alert everyone.

Well, no, no. You don't want ricochets bouncing all over the place, and you don't want particular a lot of, you know, in a place like that, the shotgun would be better. You know, if you had to engage. Close range. Yeah. If you had to engage, you don't really want to fire a weapon like that.

Did you ever have to engage? No, no. Thank goodness. Yeah, thank goodness. Absolutely. Yeah, but you were ready. You had the training. Yeah.

How many times a year would you train? Well, you qualify twice a year. Twice a year? Every six months. And then, of course, they do give you rounds to go out and shoot on your own, I mean, which is substantial. And the guys that didn't want to do it, they'd give you theirs. So you'd be out there to five or six thousand a round capacity.

Oh, my God. To just melt some barrels down. Yeah. Yeah. I think Bob Lazare, he likes automatic weapons, I think. I think he does, too. He likes anything that goes boom. Yeah, absolutely.

There's nothing wrong with that. I don't hunt. All I do is I just target practice. You go to the range still? Yeah, I do a lot of tactical stuff still. What's your favorite gun? M4 that I built and a wheel gun, a 586, methane. Whoa. Yeah, back from 83.

Wow. What kind of rounds does that have? 357 Magnum. Okay, big rounds. You insured 38 to it also, which is cheaper than 357 magnums. Right. Yeah. And, of course, 556, you know, I'm M4.

And I have some specialty shot guns also semis. Whoa. that I really like to shoot, but it's very difficult to find a range that you can go and utilize the shotgun on. I see. Because it tears down all the structure and everything. And indoor ranges, they just get really upset about it. Yeah. Yeah.

You can control that. I mean, you can control it, but they don't want to listen. Not everybody's discipline with a firearm. They just want to hear a big bang and see what they can tear up. Yeah. Unfortunately. Yeah, I've only been to a few myself in my lifetime because, you know, obviously in Canada, we got a lot of restrictions on these things. And I don't own any guns myself.

But I've had some friends down in Texas. And they were like, you got to, we got to get this Canadian, you know, to shoot some guns. And I was like, all right. And they started me off with a 50 cow. No way. My soul left my body when I shot that thing. It was stunning. And it felt incredibly terrifying.

And the target, they put, they put tannerite on the, was it? Is that what it was called? Tana right. On the target without telling me. And so I'm shooting this thing and there's things exploding and I'm, yeah, there's a big prank on me. But you ever come down southeast Georgia way else? You do an indoor range and you can, we'll do you right. You have your protection, eye protection, and you won't be overpowered by a phone.

Okay. All right. I'll take you up on it. All right. So take us into, was it the night before or was it the same? Because you had a shift to the night before November 18th. No, I just came to the field that day. You just came to the field that day. Okay.

And we worked 12 hours shifts. Yeah. And our relief usually takes place two flights. You do six to six. That's correct. Yeah. Yeah. Two flights of security police officers, which would be 12 total, six at each.

We are six on each shift. We do two flights at a time coming out on a bus or by helicopter, depending upon the weather. Buses, most of the time, blue bird buses, we have attended windows. And perform our relief, and then that shift getting off, they head out on the bus, and we take over, of course. So it's, you know, there's continuity is never broken. It's always there where it's always manned. And so then, you know, the shift that you're working by what the roster says before you ever leave, the, in your debrief that you get when you're, before you leave out to the field. So once we got to the field, I was on the 6 p.m., the 6 a.m. shift, as was Michael Johnson. And he was working vacation relief for my normal partner, who went to North Carolina to get married.

Steve Welshel, good guy. Been trying to find him, too, but I haven't had any luck finding him. Do you think he's happy? He didn't show up that night or disappointed? I really don't know. I didn't get a chance to see him again. After that was over, they never sent me back to November control. No, yeah, I heard about.

that as well. Yeah, so we performed our relief, and I was young and energetic and playing table tennis and always hitting a tennis ball. I had a, we had an all-site garage. So it was on site, but it was not connected to the main launch control facility. And I put plywood up on the walls and put tape squares in it so I could just get out there and had a center line for the nets. I just loved tennis, and I just get out there in that garage for hours and just slam that tennis ball. And, you know, and it helped me in tournaments and stuff when I played a lot of them. So, but, so I elected to do that. And so I didn't go to sleep.

And we came on duty at 6 p.m. and did our normal thing and sitting around reading books and so forth. And the other three guys that we were leave, they, you know, went on to their room 10 or 11 o'clock that night or so. And it was kind of, it was kind of cool because at about, I say about 9, 10, 915 is when I walked outside of smoke a cigarette. and then TV's on three channels in which we had we could view with, I helped set the antenna on the back of the building. And when I saw I to smoke a cigarette, and I looked in my east, and it was between 9 and 13 degrees, and I'll just see this large light.

And I went, and it was 30, 35 degrees up off the horizon. I went, what was that? What color was that? Hard to describe, but it wasn't bright white, and it wasn't dull white. It was just in the middle of that somewhere. Is this a color, I'm colorblind, but it's a color, I don't know, maybe like your walls in here, something like that, but yet bright and full.

It wasn't, there wasn't any gaps in the, in looking at it. It wasn't, you know, like a dark spot or a brighter spot or anything. It was just one color, and it just looks a lot. And I went, and what is that? I said, I thought for a minute, I said, it's got to be, based on the size of it, because you're looking at stars in the background and overhead, You can reach up and grab a star out of the Milky Way. It just looks that way.

It's so clear. And we were, what, about eight miles north of Newell, South Dakota on Highway 79, and then Belfouch is to the north and to the west, I think 29 miles. And then Sturgis is south of us 30 miles. So there was nothing there. We were the brightest thing on that whole prairie area, our launch control facility, which had between 12 and 14, two-foot light cam. on it, security and perimeter lights.

And, of course, I think our fence line is either eight or ten feet, but barbed wire turn on the outside. First of all, I gotta stop you. Your recall is insane, Mario. You're rattling off these numbers like you worked there yesterday. This is crazy. I don't know if anybody really appreciates to what extent you're getting us a detailed picture of what happened. This is remarkable. It's just there.

It's unbelievable. Yes. So, sorry, I didn't want to interrupt you, but I thought I had to just remind the audience of what they're, what it is they're listening to. And I challenge them to talk to me about an event that happened 40 years ago and see what they come up with 50 years ago. So I could probably, I could run 20 miles, you know, with a backpack on on an M16 back then and smoke a pack of cigarettes. It just didn't bother me. I was just in that good of shape. And I'm sorry to say that I did smoke back then, but I did.

And I'm looking to the east and I'll see this daggle of light. And it just looks so out of place and so odd. and the size of it was what really got my attention, not just the light in the sky. Again, well, it couldn't have been the moon. I think there's one scientist who looked at that, you know, and said, no, it wasn't the moon. It wasn't Venus.

I can't remember his name. Alaskia, or Lee Skier, he's got a funny first name, but I'll think of it. And I just lit a cigarette and didn't think of more about it. And, you know, it was drew my curiosity. And I went, well, what the hell is that? what is that exactly? And I thought B-52 bombers.

And I knew it wouldn't helicopters. Now, I think we have, I'm not sure the type of helicopters we have, they weren't super-blackawks, there was something else. I didn't mean to do that. But usually there was, it was always the notification of a trip coming from the main base to your location. Okay, it's incoming, you think? Yeah, there was, there was always communication.

if that were to happen. You're seeing like the headlights of the craft is what you're thinking. Yeah, they just don't send helicopters out and they just land at November control or Kilo or Echo or Mike. They just don't do that. They always have a trip planned and they notify wherever that's going before it gets there. You know, because we're heavily armed and we're looking at all areas in the sky, perimeter, everything. So I get this wild-brained idea. I said, well, I couldn't tell if it was stationary or if it was coming,

to me. I didn't hear anything. And that's all I could see was that thing just literally hanging in the sky. So I said, to myself, when I used to go to sea with my dad once in a while in summers, ships passing, you know, in channels or out at sea, international waters, they would sometimes flip lights at each other. If there was a communication problem, you know, or something, one was Russian, one was Korean or Filipino, whatever they were, they would flip lights at each other. So I thought, I'll go in there and flip the lights on and off of this thing. And you're kind of taught that also in Security Police School for identification purposes, for aircraft identification purposes and that kind of thing, and how to communicate with them,

basically. Like Morse? Yeah, similar, you know, like a three blit type sequence or something, and they'll acknowledge back of, you know, that they're seeing you and you're seeing them. Yeah, like flipping your high beams off. Sure, sure. Same thing, same thing. So I went inside and Bill Holloman, he was a status officer, and a great guy from North Carolina. He was on the phone with his wife, and she was in Rapid City. And I said, hey, Bill, I said, and we're good friends.

I said, man, you've got to come see this thing. I said, there's a light out here. And I said, I'm going to flip up several lights out of it if you don't mind. And he just looked up at me and just, he just did that. Just waved me off, you know, he said, you know, whatever.

And the switch was literally on the wall, just like that. And I just walked up there behind him. Now, mind you, the entrance to the capsule crew where the offices are downstairs, That's what his position is directly in front of that door, where his office is set up, and he dispatches us. They dispatch until all alarm situations to him. He relays to us.

And we all have our weapons. We got our coat tables and all that stuff. But anyway, getting back to this, I just walked up and just flip the lights off and on, just blip, blip, blip, blip, blip, blip, just like that. Walked outside, about 20 feet away from the door. I've been right to that very spot again and looked to my east, and it was about 10 or 15 seconds later.

the damn thing went blip blip flipped off flipped on but off on and back on and i went wow that's cool it's got to be b 52 bombers but still no noise not coming any closer not going north not going south so how crazy is that how does that just it just blew my mind up i said what kind of aircraft is that is it a helicopter hovering still couldn't hear it and out there even if it was six or eight miles away, 10 miles away, you'd hear a chopper. I mean, it's total silent out there. And so I shook my head and I walked back in. I did the same thing. Came back outside. I even told a bit of home again. I said, man, I flipped the lights out of it. It flipped the lights back at me. He just looked up at me like I was an absolute fool. I went back out of there again and it did it again. So now I got to,

I got to wake up somebody. Somebody got to come see this. So my partner, Michael Johnson, and we hadn't really said that much to each other. I met him at the Saitoft building, which is our assembly facility, where all the security policemen going out in the field that day. I see, that was the first time you met him. Yeah, that was the first time I met him. And I think he was from the 66th area, which is down by the badlands, which would be east of Rapid City. And where we were located was to the west and to the north, almost by the Wyoming border. And it was very close to the Wyoming border. And so I want to say, hey Michael, I said, come out here. I want you to check something out, man.

I see some lights out here. I want you to see what it is. See what you think about it. And he was kind of hesitant, you know, real nice, real light skin. I'm like, I'm like, here's from Chicago, Illinois. And he was a single guy, lived on base, and his parents, that was his permanent home address, was in some part of Chicago. So I finally wrangled him to come outside.

And I said, all right, and you see that right there? And he goes, he just nodded his head, yeah, yeah. I said, hold on. I ran back inside, left him standing there, again, about 20 feet from the door. Flip the lights off and on, off and on, off and on, run back out there again. And I just sit there and watched it. And it did it again. So it did it at that time.

And I said, did you see that? And he goes, yeah, he goes, I don't know, man, whatever. And he said that to me a couple times at night, whatever. I don't know if he didn't want to. to just acknowledge it or he didn't have any curiosity in him or what i really don't know or he's freaked out by it he didn't have any excitement at all though he had just it just didn't register with him you know on his spidey skills or whatever you know senses and uh so i said let's do it again and he just kind of i remember him looking down and it was quite cold it was like nine to 13 degrees

that night it was ice on the ground so i ran back in and i got long drones on um fatigues and all that stuff on. So I ran back in and did it again. Come back outside. This would be the third time or be the fourth time. Flip the lights off. Flip the lights on. Same thing.

Came back out. It was about 15, 20 seconds. It went off, went on, went off, and that was it. Just stayed off. I said, well, I told Michael Johnson, I said, I guess that's the end of the show or something. I don't know. And he didn't say anything about it. I said, what do you think that is, man?

I said, do you think he just went the other way or what? He just, he really just shrugged his shelters off. He didn't really mind. Not interested. Yeah, he was just uninterested. So we go back in and sit back down. And I just kept thinking, you know, what was that? And the guys that were off duty, they had already gone off to, I guess, bed or something

because they get up early and have breakfast. So I grabbed a book or something and started reading a book or, because, you know, it's hard to get people. to play ping pong with you or sometimes we played hearts and stuff like that when we get everybody together but bill hollman's still on the phone he'd been on the phone for two hours at least i don't know you know how that happens and uh of course the tv went off at 12 o'clock then that's when you get that really crazy signal at the end of the night and had that broadcast signal then it you know it had that high pitch uh signal when it ended you know because we only had three channels And I guess it was about a few minutes after 12, 12, 15 or so, 12, 12, 12, 15.

All of a sudden I heard the alarm phone in the flight security controller's office where Bill Holloman was. I heard it go off. And it makes a noise, and I'm going to do this like that. And it's really loud. You can hear it all the way out into the kitchen and the day room area. Sure. And there's a reason for that. And so I hear Bell Hawley.

me snatches it off because it rings until you take it off the hook, right? And I just, as I'm walking in the vestibule and I'm entering his office, I hear him say sit four November five. And none of this is classified, by the way. I want everybody to know that. None of this that I'm talking about is classified whatsoever in any part. None of it. So I hear him, I hear him say, yes, sir, sit four, six, five, sit four, November five. And, and, and, I hear him say, yes, sir, sir, sit four, November 5. And so went in there, Michael Johnson comes in. Michael Johnson didn't know his way around.

Of course, he would be the driver. He outranked me by two months. We were both senior airmen at the time, 23 years of age. I was. And got our weapons, got our code tables and everything that we had to have, had our ditty bags. That's your hawk bag. We call it and got all your stuff in it in case you have to spend the night out there on the side. Your rock sack.

Yeah, it's similar to that. We call it. It's got everything in it, you know, Like I said, in case you have to literally spend the night a few nights on that missile site until a camper alert team gets there until a maintenance can come and solve the problem if you can't get a reset on what's going on out there on alarms, because it has to be back to non-alarm status, is the right word. So got our briefing and everything and loaded up the vehicle,

exited the gate, went out to the dirt road. All these are clay roads that connect these sides. There are our highways. And turn left at the end of the end of our road. Next intersection turn left. And it was about four and a half miles from that intersection up to Highway 79. And the strangest thing is that the road kind of goes down and then it goes up toward the highway bed. I guess in the wintertime, you know, when you have,

of snow and ice and everything so he can run off of it. And that's why they build a highway. And they're very smart people about managing that during the wintertime. You know, all the power lines are underground, all that kind of stuff. And that's pretty smart. And I just happened to be sitting when I was sitting in a passenger seat. I just turned and looked over my right shoulder at about the 4 o'clock position, and we're in an F-150 Ford pickup truck.

That was our response vehicle with two blue bubbles on top, the U.S. Air Force security police on the side. and weapons rack in behind us. And, you know, so it was a single cab forward pickup truck. Yeah. And all of them were. They were all the same, had Western mirrors on it. And as I looked over at about the 4 o'clock position,

I see this pulsating glow like this miles away at November 5 area. I mean, as the crow flies, that's where November 5 was. Same direction where you saw the craft initially. No. Opposite. Completely opposite. Yeah. We saw it east of the November control.

And now November 5 is back in that direction. So this went, it was here to the east. And then it was there November 5. Same color? No. Different. I didn't see a light as I saw in the sky. This was like a pulsating energy coming up off the ground or coming up through the atmosphere.

And it was a clear night. So there were no clouds or anything. So you're seeing kind of just the fall off of the light over the horizon. Or like a pulsation, it was pulsing. Wow. Like it was like this pulsing. And it was very bright and it was large. But I didn't, you know, I couldn't get any, I didn't see a confining shape of it.

It was just like a light that you'd stand over there in that corner and just hit a flashlight and in this pulsing light up. Yeah. It's like that. And I said, hey, Michael, you. You see that? And, of course, he's driving. He's not about to look. And he can see what, man, you know, something like that.

So, so highway 79, take a right. As soon as we got up on top of that roadbed and turned to the right, then that four clock now became the one-130 position, right? And then you could really see it because we were up higher now, not much higher, but high enough where you could see that pulsation. And I said, that right there, do you see that? And he just goes, man, whatever. He says, I don't, you know, I don't know.

He just didn't want to. to participate or acknowledge it in anything, it could be other than ordinary. And do you think that's because he's not familiar with what goes on out there? And so maybe he's thinking himself, it's probably just normal and, you know, I just don't know about it? Well, it might be, but he'd been there for a while at Ellsworth, and been in security police for a while at Ellsworth. And he was in a different area. So he'd just really never seen anything. He'd heard about things, but he'd never really seen anything, to the best of my knowledge, from what he told me later, a few weeks later.

And as we headed down toward Newell, population 230 at the time, to a stop sign, took a right, I lost view of that pulsating light as the roadbed got lower down into town, right, and turn right on Orman Road, O-R-M-A-N, and it goes out on hard pay for about, I don't know, maybe a half a mile or less, and drops back off on dirt again or clay. and they're really well maintained by the state, and they're beautiful. You can go 80 mile an hour on these things, you know. I mean, you really can.

And as we made that dog leg left turn heading to November 5, which was just down the road, maybe another mile, there sat this object in the atmosphere directly over that missile site, maybe 10 feet above the blast door. That was the size. And I'm going to say it as the super Walmart.

This thing was gargantuan. And it wasn't a craft that had a shape or a defining shape like wings and, you know, rudders or windshields or anything like that. It was a complete sphere, and it looked like it had plasma on the outside of it. Like a roiling surface? Like, it looked like the sun. It looked like the surface of a close-up picture of the sun. Like this stuff was like liquid and fire.

and energy all together just molded like molten rock or something, just moving around. And it did have some little, it had some like energy spikes on it at times. Like these small spikes would just kind of pop up. I mean, when you really looked at it, and it was almost hard to look at it, but I did. I did very, as hard as I could, I really tried to look at it. And when we pulled up right on the cattle gate in front of the site,

it was only maybe 60 to 80 feet to the front gate, which was a requirement that I had to go in. I had to go around the exterior of the site and go in the gates and go on the interior, normal procedure. Just for patrolling? Yeah. And this thing was so massive that where it sat, how it sat 10 feet above that blast door,

or I mean right, dangone dead in the middle of that blast door, door. It's like it knew where it was. When you say a blast door. That protects the rocket. That's what the rocket comes out. Mm-hmm. The ICBM. That blows back, yeah, when the ICBM is launched, that blows back and it's on,

it's on like a railroad track that's short and it blows it and tips it and gets it out the way immediately. There's no pull. And back is, it's gone. And it's dead center over the top. Dead center directly over top of it. And, I mean, I even looked at the concrete glowing underneath it, meaning, so bright, you know, because of the, what was above it.

And I looked at Michael and he was just like with a, he had like a glow around him all of a sudden. And it was just, I mean, this is very hard to perceive, you know, when you pull up on something, this happened. It's very difficult to perceive what you're seeing. And immediately the atmosphere was just evacuated from our vehicle. vehicle. I can't breathe.

I don't know. It's because of that. It's taking all the atmosphere away. Immediately. What do you mean? I couldn't breathe. He couldn't either. We were just gasping for air.

Just gasping for air. And I felt like there was a pressure inside the vehicle. And I was being pushed on the chest and literally lit. And I had on, you know, I had on parka pants, full, full parka. My bow. barret on my glove i had my gloves on i took one glove off um in my weapon and i just felt like i was being and i was 200 and something pounds i was just being lifted up into that back area of the cab of that truck just just being lifted up with no visible force or anything upon me i was just

i couldn't breathe and i was being pulled up this way and just like in this chair it's being pulled up or something. And the only thing that I knew to do was to ask for relief. And I grabbed a black three-d-cell aluminum flashlight. I've called it a mag light, but I know they didn't do commercial maglight advertising until 79. This was in 77, so it was before it was ever named a maglight. And I rolled the window down, and I pull myself up on the window seal of that truck because I was so afraid I couldn't I wouldn't step out of the vehicle. I got on bunny boots also. I don't if you know what those are, but those are for super cold temperature areas. They're inflatable. And I pull myself up on that windowsill and I grabbed onto the bubble up there with my,

I had a gloved hand on here and I didn't have a glove on this hand and I just flashed my light at this incredibly huge object three or four times, just like I did back at November control. and I don't even know why I did it. I was just asking for relief. In my mind, I was asking for relief. And it was flashed. Okay. I didn't even know what this is.

And so that is the... And I did it for a couple of times. And it was just as if somebody turned a faucet off. I just slid back down on that seat. And I don't know what happened in my flashlight. I grabbed my gun. I grab my weapon. I put it back between my legs.

I told Michael Johnson, I said, it's going to be okay now and could breathe better, could literally breathe better. All this has taken place in about 15 seconds since I rolled up there. And then a black ball about the size of that wall right there, what do you think of is, eight foot? It had these lines on it, like vents. They weren't like a, like a, it was like, I have to say it was like omnidirectional. It just came out of nowhere, and it was a color black that it's not like that, black or that black, it was a black that was very difficult to describe. It wasn't flat black. It wasn't gloss black. It was just black. It's like a little, it's like a basketball with nozzles all around.

These little things, it sorts of gas and shoot from each side of it. It did flip it and push it and move it and just go up, it'd come down and go everywhere. It's just like a little, like a big bullet or something. I don't know. Did it make any sense what it was trying to do? No, it was just on top of the right left of me and went inside of him or around me. Did you smell anything? No. And it came within about eight inches of the hood of that vehicle. And it was literally right here in front of the windshield.

And it shot straight up, straight down, around the side, right here next to me. I mean, you don't even, you don't know what, uh, what it is. On the other side of Michael Johnson's side, he's not speaking, he'll say anything. And I mean, I'm not saying anything. And when it stayed for eight or ten seconds and then it was just gone, uh, it was a strangest feeling to have that thing all over you and not even know what it was. Don't know where it came from, never recognized or seen anything like that in my entire life. And the word drone was not even thought about then or used,

especially in any of my vocabulary, anyone else is in security police that I knew of. See how small object in front of vehicle. There's nothing I've ever seen. Can you describe it? Yes. It was many two and a three feet down. And it was like a little.

little ball. No, what else is the same? Okay, let's pause for a second. Let's pause for a second, Mario. You need to calm down. Take a deep breath. And it left, and it seemed like it was a void. It was like 45 seconds where it was just nothing but pure white light inside the vehicle.

And it just seemed as if, if I can describe it. it is time slowing down in the reason I say that because the brightness was so was so intense that I could I could see inside the vents of that of that F-150 I could see down inside the vents it was just lit up a foot and a half down in the dashboard from this light and dust particles were just moving past me like super super slow as if time was just stopped or slowed I have no idea how that's even done or if that's what happened, but that's the way it appeared to me. And Michael Johnson, I can't speak for because every time I looked at him, he was just stuck to that steering wheel and he was just bathed in this light. And mind you now, we're at a 45 degree angle.

That's our response position. So actually, he was closer to the craft or to the object than I was. It was on his side of the vehicle. I was on the dark side. And I see this dust coming by me, and I don't see shadows. I see everything is so lit that I can put myself right there right now. And it's really uncomfortable.

But everything is so lit that I've never experienced light. lightning or any searchlight or anything like that in my life. And I think that light in itself had a function of what I don't know. Maybe some type of a sedative type thing. Because not one time that I feel as if, you know, I was going to charge my weapon and start just shooting at anything or everything. I never felt that way. I wanted to run, but there was nowhere to run.

You were that, or amiss yourself. Literally, that's the kind of fear that this invoked to me. I can't speak for anyone else. And these thoughts of what I'm describing upon, pulling up there, less than probably two and a half, three minutes have passed, and all this has taken place. And I'm guessing there, I'm just saying that, that's how quickly this all unraveled.

It's still a long time. Yeah. And then this smell, it hit me like a blanket. And it, uh, it just coated, it just coated inside my nostrils and in my lungs and my throat. It just coated me like ammonia and sulfur. This, it just, uh, it takes your, your complete attention for everything else. You don't, I've never, uh, smell anything quite like it again. Some, similar in a, and, uh, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um,

in a cooler with some shrimp going bad that was opened. It was pungent? Yeah. Was it like chemical? I can only say ammonia because I mean I worked around all these laboratories and different areas like even where I work now in Georgia Pacific. It's, you know, you smell these smells and you and. Sting your nose? Yeah.

Yeah, that did. It just coated. It just felt like I was coated. I couldn't get it out of me, you know, at all. And as soon as that was gone, or it wasn't really gone, it was still there. It was permeated inside of that truck. I knew the only thing protected me on my right side was that thin piece of glass on that window. And I don't even know where that thought came from, but that's what I thought.

And then I started to fear. And as soon as I started to fear is when I heard the first word, do not fear. Do not fear. not verbally, inside of me. Like, I don't just mean in my head, I mean, through me, through every cell in my body, radiated to sound the exact same time. And it was in English, it was three words.

Do not fear, do not fear, said in that way. Do not fear. If you had to describe the voice, male, or indescribable? Indescribable. It just, it's not like anything we've ever heard. The only thing that I can associate with it is when a father or a sibling would talk to a baby in a mother's womb. That's the only thing that I can associate with how it would feel because a baby hears those things.

He hears or she hears those sounds in a mother's womb when the father is talking to him, you know. Like all of us dads do. Like all of us dads do, we've all done that. and it always reminded me of that and I heard that twice do not fear do not fear and I just turned and I looked to my right because I felt a presence

and about 20 foot away from me were four beings three small and one tall and the one on the right now the one on the left it would be I was just looking from their point of view. The one on the right,

they had on these real skin-tight little fitting, they're not cover-alls or... Jump-suits? Jump-suit, I don't know what, yeah, I guess. But they're real skin-tight, and he had a waistband of some type. And in that band was a stick about that long, and it had a yellow tip on it about that big.

Besides what I was looking at, that's really what I paid attention to and it honestly it wasn't what I was looking at for alien beings and their smells and they're talking within me it was when I realized what I was looking at

is when in here just kind of broke down for a second can you describe them from the shadows to want to me. Okay. Mario, let's back off again. I knew there was no escape, and there was no sense in saying anything or doing anything.

I don't know what Michael Johnson was doing at that particular time. The next thing I know, I heard, do not fear one more time in succession, and lights out. just that fast, just lights out. So how tall was the tall one? It's six foot, I mean, he's different. You describe him?

Yeah. He had a long hand. He had a very long head. And he looked up, he just put it back through. And the little guys didn't pump. You're like he did. He looked through me or something. He looked through you?

He is. Okay. And the small ones didn't bother you? They walked right up to me. They got a little, you know, in their eyes. I didn't even fear them. I didn't fear them. Okay.

They told me not to you. And I did. And as soon as I couldn't see anymore, or I was out of sleep or whatever I was, I just took a deep breath and I just popped awake, and I'm in total blackness. No lights, no missile sight, completely away from where we were. Didn't know that at the time. I just thought they'd turn all the lights off on November 5 because that's where we were dispatched to because of this alarm.

And I said, hey, Michael, I said, what happened? What's going on? He is stuck at his steering wheel, just glued to it, and he wouldn't talk to me. He wouldn't answer me. I said, I got a problem with Sergeant Johnson. I said, I can't get him to speak to me or acknowledge me. I said, I don't know where the hell we are.

And I found that so odd that a grown man like you sitting there and me hollering at him that whatever stupor he's in, he's going to eventually hear me. Pushed his face with my index finger. I put my finger in his ear about that far, thinking that would shock him or something. But it had no effect. And I turned to my right and I looked and I was still thinking about what I had just seen, thinking maybe this was all a dream. This didn't really happen.

And there's a white wall. and it goes up at about a 45-degree angle. I know I use a lot of degrees, but I lived that way. And it was white. And it went up about 50 feet. It wasn't an angular. It was at an angle. So I said, where are we?

I said, what happened? Where is November 5? And I'm saying this to Michael Johnson and nothing from him. I reached out and pulled a lever on the door handle. And I stepped out in mud. And mind you, it was 9 to 13 degrees, and there was ice on the ground, and where we were, it wasn't. And I didn't know where we were.

I'd never been there before. So I'm in question with him. I'm trying to pull him and yank him and talk to him, and didn't even think about the radio or nothing, and we had not made any kind of security check since we arrived on November 5, which was really unusual because that alarm dictated that we made a security check every five minutes during the process of that what's called striking a site. And I thought, I'm in trouble now. You know, that's all I could think of,

what everything else, I'm in trouble now. A few seconds passed, and all of a sudden the radio just cracked alive, and it said, it said, WSC to November 1, do you copy? And I looked at my icon and I thought, well, here's a friendly voice. It was a winged security control back at Ellsworth.

Now, these large control facilities are very, They're very far away from the main base of Ellsworth. You live at these facilities, launch control facilities. There's 15 of them at Ellsworth, or there were, with a total of 150 missiles. Each launch control facility has 10-minute-man missiles assigned to it, and you go and you take care of all 10 of those that are in your area, or you serve as backup to any other area that may need you.

So I continue to try to wake him up, and I said, I said, Aaron Woods, WSC, I said, it's November 1. He said, are you, he goes, are you hurt? And I said, no, sir. He goes, what's your status? And I said, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. And he said again, he goes, do you need medical attention or something like that?

And I said, I don't, but I said, I can't get my partner, Michael Johnson, to talk to me. I said he's just frozen to the steering wheel and won't move. And there was a long pause. He didn't really know how to, he didn't know what to say about that. I mean, these things are all new. You just got to go with it as it comes at you. You can't. It's really not a procedure that I knew of that you had guidelines to follow,

unlike striking a site or something like that, which we had strict guidelines. And that was my biggest worries. I never stepped a foot on that site. And I was responsible for that. So I was going to be in trouble. That's all I can think about was I was going to be in trouble. And how was I going to explain this, you know?

You and Michael. Yeah. How's I going to explain this? And I couldn't get him to say a word. I didn't know what he thought or what he heard or what he didn't hear. I'm still shaking from what I heard and what I saw and what I smelled. That's never left me. I want to pause here and just go back a little bit to the encounter.

when you saw, clearly this is hard for you to talk about. Yeah. I see that. It gets me. Yeah. I try not to let it bother me, but it just comes upon me. How can you not? I don't know.

I mean, this is otherworldly. I mean, there's no other way to put it. And, you know, any way that you feel about it, there's no protocol for how you're supposed to feel about these things. So, you know, but it is clear to me that you have an emotional reaction to reliving this. When you saw Michael Johnson's face as he was being bathed in this light in the car, what was his expression? Wide eyes, breathing normal, just wide eyes.

That's really all I could tell. Was his mouth open? Was he just? No. I don't mean his mouth was open. It was a little bit later, but it wasn't then. Do you feel like he was just in shock? He was just like...

stuck in time or something. I don't know. Frozen. Yeah, he was just frozen. He was just literally locked up. And, you know, and I got to say, I didn't pay attention to his arms because I really couldn't see him at that time in his hands. But pulling his jacket back when we got him up, when I got him off the steering wheel,

he was so locked up, literally, how long had he been stuck on that steering wheel like that? How do you, how do you grab onto something and not let go? for however long it was and not be aware of it for one. And for two, it was almost as if we were going to break a finger getting his hands off that blue plastic F-154 steering wheel, literally. And I had help doing that. Okay, so take me back then. You're being radioed in.

First of all, the radio calling in, did you ever wonder how long have they been trying to reach us? Mm-hmm. Did you ever get an answer to that? No. No, so it could have been the first time. Like, you could have just maybe appeared and they're like, oh, what are you guys doing out there? Like, there's no way that you can know that. Okay.

And so you get radioed in. They send help. Well, first, you've got to find it where you are. Mm-hmm. When I stepped out and found out I was standing in mud, I just had great questions that I couldn't even begin to answer with everything else had just gone on. And I kept trying to talk to him and then wing security control. so we want you to make one-minute security checks because we are going to triangulate your position.

He didn't say we were doing it. He said, we are going to triangulate your position. And I'd never been a part of that or had I not done it either, but we learned similar to that in security police tech school. Just never used it. Never thought it would or, you know, but it was there in case it had to be used.

So he was doing that based on his one-minute security checks as I had to, I'd just call in, you know, say, senior Emerald Woods, wing security control security check and he just 10-4 of that and he said, they're coming, they're coming, they're coming, you know, we're trying, we're trying. And that's the response I got back and forth

on him. And of course, he could ask me about Michael Johnson, you know, can you get him on the radio? I said, I can't get him off the steering wheel. I can't get him to speak. I can't get him to do anything. And there was a great pause in that. I don't know, you know, because all the wing security control personnel

were listening to that, all the security police person never listened to that. All of them. Through all three facilities, through all three sites, I mean, through all three areas, the 66, 67, 68, so everybody was aware of it. What I was not aware of is where I was and how we got there, and it started getting bright. Now, we arrived November 5 before 1 a.m., preferably right around 12, 30, quarter to 1, somewhere in there when all this took place. And when I looked at my little old military time-hicks, $28 watch back then, it was after 6 a.m. Almost six hours. Five hours, at least.

It passed. Five hours. No recollection how he got there. When did you look at your watch at that point? When the sun came up. So you saw the sun and you were confused? Well, it doesn't come. He just started getting a light in the east.

And I went, what the heck? Because I had no idea this much time. passed. It just seemed, it just didn't, it just seemed like a second, like a few minutes from where we were to where we are now. Did that hit you at all when you saw the time? Yeah. I was like, oh my God. Now I'm really in trouble because we didn't go on that site. I just knew I was going to answer to a lot of stuff, you know, right then and there, and I still couldn't get my partner, my team leader to do, to answer or to be any or cognitive of anything that was going on at all. He was just a blank.

And it was a little after six when I saw the first set of headlights coming over a hill. And we were about, I guess we were about four and a half miles off the road of Highway 79 behind Newell Lake Reservoir Dam. But I do want to know and back up a little bit to where when I got out the vehicle and looked this way and that way, which ended up being north and south. the road that we were on, this was a two-wheel-drive vehicle. All of our forge out there, they were all two-wheel-drive vehicles, rear-wheel-drive,

and where we were sitting on this little road behind this dam, there was just wheels wide enough to be sitting upon. There was not a place to go in there and turn around, and then they come back in the direction which we were facing. It was the only way we could be facing to get out of there.

If not, we couldn't have gotten our vehicle out of there. If it had been sitting east and west, you couldn't have moved it. And had Michael Johnson been conscious and opened up his door and it would have been total darkness and took two steps, he had gone down about a 20 or 30 foot drop-off, not straight, but just to slant a drop-off into another

holding pond for that dam overflow. Because the Weir Dam was north of us at the far end of Newell Lake Resort. It was a war dam. But there were tracks coming in. There were no tracks coming in. No tracks anywhere. So fresh snow, ice?

Yeah, it was ice and snow, and there was no tracks. And there was no tracks? No tracks. None. Where we were was just a round place that was de-thawed and wet and clay. And there was mud around your truck. Mud, yeah. And there was no tracks coming in for us when Sergeant Garza, he was a buck sergeant,

him and his team member, they were a backup alert team from another facility. I think Oscar, I think Oscar flight, they sent them over, and of course we had our backup alert team. Now, I think they might have gone on a number of five, but I really don't know. But a total of six security policemen in three vehicles in tandem arrived at the same time, you know, 20, 30 feet apart. Sergeant Garza was the closest. And one thing I don't remember is if our vehicle was running,

or it was off. I don't remember that. Did they comment on the fact that there was no tracks? Not at that time, no, at all. Sergeant Garza didn't either. But he said, and I walked around, I stepped out and I walked around in front of the vehicle, and I walked toward him. He was about 20 feet away from me. And I said, Sergeant Garza, I said, what's going on, man? He goes, Mario? He goes, I don't know, but I can't talk to you about that.

He said, I'm just here to escort you to November control. I looked around and I said, what the hell are doing here? And as I noticed, it wasn't darky and it didn't get light. And I said, what fucking time is it, man? 6.15 in the morning. And I said, okay, I understand. And I told him, I said, I need help with Michael Johnson. He didn't know Michael Johnson either because I said, he wasn't on our normal flight.

And he just, he said, what do you mean? I said, I can't get him to talk. I can't get him to move. I can't get him to acknowledge anything. I said, I don't know what's wrong with him. So he walked over to the vehicle not saying anything. I opened up the driver's side door, and there's Michael sitting there like this.

Seat belted in. We only had lap belt, seat belted in. And he's just stuck on his steering wheel. Staring straight ahead. Staring straight ahead. I don't know if he was blinking or not. I never remember him blinking at all. I put my hand in his face, like I said,

I did everything I could possibly scream at him, yelled at him, finger in the air, everything, everything. No response at all. It's a locked up human being. Anyway, finally, we unbelted him, and we both, I got on, I got on the passenger side, came across the seat because we had to get him in the passenger seat. And I started working on his right hand, undoing his thumb and his index finger and getting his hand opened up so I could get it off the steering wheel.

Garza did the same thing on the left side. That's how he got his hand off of there. When you were taking his hand off, did his finger stay in position as you were opening them? Or did they, were they trying to like... Oh, they were trying to continue. They were trying to keep holding. It was like he was in a great muscle cramp in both arms. I mean, he was like he was in a great muscle cramp.

And I just don't have, I don't have words for it. And once he got him off the steering wheel and put his place his hands down on his lap like that, I just grabbed him on the inside of the leg and up by the back of the collar. And I just drugged him across the seat. And I just put the suit belt back on him. And I got talking to him the whole time and nothing. He just sat there just looking straight ahead, just sitting there, just sat there the entire time.

Never said a word. His weapon was there, all his stuff, his ditty back was where it's supposed to be. Everything was where it was supposed to be and had been. I went around and got into the driver's seat, cranked the truck up. I did do that. I remember that. And Garza went back to his vehicle.

So the truck was off? The truck was off. Yeah, at that time it was off. Yeah. So I cranked it out. on the lights, everything was fine, started to move. I slipped a little bit. You know, as I said, it was on a two-wheel drive.

We were crunching through the snow and ice, you know, it was about a foot and a half deep, foot, foot and a half deep. And got in behind Garza, they turned around and they went on. As we exited out on the Highway 79, the other two backup alert teams, they went their way, but Garza stayed with us all the way to November control. Got to the gate at November control. They opened the gate when they saw it was coming. Of course, there was radio communication going to the gate.

It had an automatic gate, so that was opened. And I pulled in right in front of the flight security controller's office. It was just like an outward vestibule. And when they did, there were the off-duty security policeman there. It was Bill Holloman was there. There were two officers there that had been underground. That morning they waited. Their relief normally takes place, and they leave every other day, I think, is how that works.

I can't quite recall their schedule, but usually at the alternate command center, they stayed there overnight. They didn't do that same schedule on other sites. So they were relieved with their new guys going downstairs and they come up. So I had Bill Holloman, the on-duty security policemen that were there, and myself and Michael Johnson would make up the off-duty shift. But we have a facility manager, a site cook. And, of course, my flight chief, master of Sergeant Joel Gray and ex-Sartant Robert Hawkins, they were both there awaiting our arrival.

And when they pulled up, they just came up to the side of the vehicle. And as I stepped out, Sergeant Gray said, he goes, what's going on with you? What's going on with you or something like that? Because he was an Alabama guy, and we had a really good rapport in relationship. what's going on with you boy or something, something like that? And I said, I don't know, Sergeant Gray. I said, I don't know how to answer you, sir. He said, what's wrong with him?

I said, I don't know. And they literally opened the door and got him out. I said, he has to have help. I said, he's not responding to anything. I've been trying to talk to him and get his attention in any way or get him to talk or to even acknowledge that there's somebody else in the room with him, but he won't even do that. So literally the flight security can, or not.

Now, the facility manager, and I think one of the officers of the two got him. Yeah, he's a lieutenant. He got him, and they put him under, and they got him under the shoulders, and they took him to the back room to the facility manager's bedroom, and they set him down. I guess they were trying to get some fluids in him or something, but we were immediately separated, and that was the strangest thing, because all I did was ask about him.

So they took me in the, I went in the day room, we turned in our weapons, as that's a normal procedure it was a program said we were relieved of our weapons but that's never been the case they didn't take anything they didn't ever took our weapons period um

turned in all of our stuff code tables and all the stuff had to be burned and that was done but were you tired at this point I don't really recall how I was I don't think so I think I was so full of adrenaline yeah

and mind you I'd been up the day before since about 4 o'clock. Yeah. When I was brought to the SATA building to go do my normal three-day shift, and then I stayed up all day, and then this happened that night, you know, and so I'd been up all that time straight. So maybe even a little bit delirious at this point because you're like trying to figure out what happened.

You've got missing time. You might be tired, but also you have this adrenaline pumping through your system. Very strange, probably a very strange feeling. It really honestly is, yes. And confusion. I just knew that I had to be very selectful in every single emotion and word that I stated that day to anybody I spoke with. Because you did not want them mistaking what happened for something else. Had I said what I saw out that right side window approaching me, PRP would have been gone, my job would have been gone.

I'd have probably been put in a store room or something, but my whole career would have been down to tubes just that fast. And just to pause here, PRP, the Personal Reliability Program. Yes. Can you explain a little bit about what that is? Oh, yeah. Well, it's a security measure taken from personnel that work in highly sensitive areas around nuclear equipment or sensitive nuclear materials or anything like that deemed

that a catastrophe or, a wrong move or a person that was unscrupulous could take something and do something with it to hurt others and many others. Yeah. Or contaminate something or could do anything to harm many, many people. So the PRP program has placed there, in essence, as a guideline to keep people on the straight and narrow. It's your drug tested regularly? Yeah, drug tested. Well, they do a swab, P test?

blood test, hair test, all the above, yes. And then let's say you have a headache one day and you want to grab a couple aspirin. Well, that's okay. And aspirin's okay. And aspirin's okay. But if you take any kind of drug, you know, that should be prescribed and is not. Sure. It shows up and boom, you're done.

I mean, you're taken in, you're examined and you're cross-referenced and investigated. The idea of you saying like, oh, I'm feeling depressed or something. You can't say any of that. Negative. That's gone. That's gone. So you're under pretty strict guidelines, guidelines, almost surveillance.

Oh, yeah. And so you're choosing your words wisely because you know that if you say the wrong thing here, there goes your job. Everything. Your clearances, everything. Everything. And I was, you know, I was new. I was just a senior airman. And I was newly married.

And I'm just trying to. do a job. You know, that's, that's what I was there for. And I really enjoyed it up to that point. I just didn't understand what it happened. Are you thinking to yourself, Michael is going to lose his job? I didn't know.

Honestly, didn't know, because I couldn't, I didn't know what he'd seen, what he heard, what he would remember. But just like his state, like the state that he's in, I would have been like,

yeah, maybe he's, this guy's, you know, this guy's done. Yeah, he's, you know, I didn't know if he'd ever recover from it, the way that, that, that I saw, him. I've never seen another human being act that way. So now you go into like a debriefing situation?

I'm just in a day room, just in a normal day room where we sit and watch TV. They had turned the TV off. And everybody that was even on duty was standing around the outer perimeter. And they had me sitting in a chair, you know, a lean back chair in the day room and just and Sergeant Gray was kind of, Messer Sergeant Gray was kind of leading the investigation or the interrogation and getting ideas from others and I said there was one officer in there. The other one was back with Michael Johnson and the facility manager in that room. And I was just asked everything, what happened? What did you see? What did you do? You didn't go on the site? You know, what happened? They were, you know, and I told them, I said, there was an object. I said, gargantuan thing. I said,

I don't know what happened. Well, how did you get to where you were? I mean, just all types of cross-referencing questions like that. I said, I don't. know how we got there. Well, the vehicle didn't drive itself there. I mean, there was, you know, there was rebuttal and a lot of things that I even said, you know, and it just, it just makes you feel smaller and smaller. Well, how come you didn't strike that sight? And I couldn't really answer that other than, I don't know why, you know, and you had to be very selectful in that, in that appropriate answer. So you mentioned the object, you didn't mention the beings, the smell, correct, any of that stuff. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And I told,

him of the round ball object too that came down in front of the vehicle about the evacuation of the atmosphere inside the truck, the pressure on the chest for both of us and how Michael Johnson acted and what he did or didn't do. Everything that I've told you with the exception of what I saw out the right side window, I told them as best I could. And of course, that wasn't the end of it. So after about two, two hours, two and a half hours of that, then Sergeant Gray, he was in the flight security controller's office while I was still out there I tell them I said I have to go to the restroom I just needed I needed to I needed some silence to myself you know and not that I had to do anything or whatever I just I went into that restroom there were two stalls and I just went into the

far stall and I closed the door and I just sat there and uh I was in my fatigues I I just felt I felt dingy, I felt dirty or grimy or something. There's a better word for it. And I remember putting my head in my hands and on my knees and I just sat there, kind of rubbing my head, and all of a sudden I get this super high-pitched whining in my ears, and my eyes are closed. And it's like a scream in my inside my head, this super high pitch. And I open my eyes and then and the colors around me changed

like pea green. Like honestly like a pea green color. Just everywhere else. That's what I was seeing out of my eyes. Everything just looked that way. And it was a bright sunny day. And I don't know if perhaps being subjected to bright light or something like that was doing that because I was trying to find

an answer in my mind. It was just rolling over. But this noise got so loud. I remember placing my hands on the side of my ears and I put my head down. And when I closed my eyes, I was leaving my body. And I had a clear path through me out my feet. I just knew there was a way that I could leave my body and I felt like I kept, anytime I closed my eyes, I'd go further down each time. And I get here, I got down to here, if there's such a measurement, and it freaked me out so bad, I popped my eyes back open. And when I did, I see this, I see these four little furry feet going across the tile floor in front of the door and the stalling I'm in. It was a German shepherd drug dog. And behind them was two pair, uh, a pair of, uh, a, uh, a, uh, a, uh, a,

pair of super shiny Cochran law enforcement boots that we always wore. And the guy says, you okay in there, Mario? And I said, yeah, man. I said, I'm all right. I'm fine. I said, I'm glad you're here. I said, my ditty bag's out there in the day room. And he said, he said, oh, I've already checked all that.

He said, you guys are good. He said, I've done it all. He said, I just come to check on you. So evidently, he knew me, but I don't know who he was. I just don't know who he was. It's just, he knew me, though. So I opened the door and he's still there. And you know, I was supposed to pet their dogs ever.

And I didn't. I just said, you know, what a pretty boy was. I remember looking at him and he had my attention. Did you feel flushed at all? Oh, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And the colors had not come completely back yet. I still had that, I still had that vision in my mind or in my eyesight of this pea green color. And it was, it was calming down.

But all I wanted to. to do. I turned that sink water on that ice cold water from that huge well underground. That South Dakota water is like here. It's super cold, you know, and super nice. And I just drench myself. And I had my fatigues on, had long johns on and t-shirt, long-john top, you know, long-john pants and my fatigue pants. I just soaked myself. And we weren't wearing cammy fatigues, and we were in those grays back at that time. And I was put all my hair and my face. and got me a pepper towel and was wiping myself down

and walked back out in the day room and I remember Master Sergeant Gray saying well did you take a bath in there? I said, yes sir. I said, if I could, I would do that. I said, I just, I needed to do that. He didn't say nothing.

He said, well, get your bag. He said, we've got to go back to base. He said, wing commander and the base commander or deputy base commander wants to meet with you. So that's where we were heading about 55 minutes back

to Elzer at the Air Force base. I want to put a little pause here. I find it very interesting, the out-of-body thing. And it reminds me because one of the best ways, have you ever left your body since then? Yes. Okay. One of the best ways that I've encountered through people I've talked to and interviewed in the books I've read about leaving your body is fatigue. Fatigue is like almost a guaranteed way.

Like if you skip a night's sleep and you try to stay up. there was a there was a guy Marco who was in our group at the gateway process when I did the Monroe thing and he was a firefighter and they would often you know spend 48 hours up and they'd sleep at the firehouse and one night he was telling me too is like as soon as his head hit the bed like as soon as it hit the bed didn't have time to fall asleep like he was rising up through his body and going through the ceiling and whatnot yeah but that seems to be you know um a catalyst for out of body event so you might have been experiencing that on top of the of this other thing, you know, or maybe it was facilitated by your experience. I don't know, but I think it's interesting that you had that happen there. Like, how bizarre does this day get? Absolutely. I try to make sense of it and not only but what, but why? And what's the lesson?

And I can't answer any of it. I really can't. I do every day, because there's not a day goes by where some part of this doesn't infiltrate back, infiltrate back to me in some way. I can see something that pushes that memory forward. I can smell something that ignites other thoughts. You know, it's really, it's consuming, and it's, it never goes away. And I don't think it ever will until the day I'm no more.

But. Yeah, it's a strong. a lot of people in your position that I've spoken to and I asked them like what's the one thing that you would ask them you know whatever did this and the answer is often is not often is always why me yeah it's it's an invasive personal sort of thing that you went through and for something that really important to have happened. There has to be a reason, right? Yeah. Okay, so you're, you got 55 mile drive to back to Ellsworth. Back to Ellsworth. And I kept out, I even asked Sergeant Gray before we left,

I said, well, what about Michael Johnson? Don't worry about him. He'll be fine. Sergeant Hawkins is going to bring him back. I said, okay, no problem. So I got my stuff and got in his vehicle all the way back, you know, we talked about the whole thing. He, from start to fend, and what I saw, I guess he was looking for something else other than what I had told him, you know, and he even asked me, says, there's something else that you want to tell me that you haven't told everybody. And again, I would not say what I saw at that right window. He was asking you. Yeah, he was asking me, is there anything else I wanted to say, you know, what I saw, that I didn't want it,

that I didn't say in front of everybody back at the launch control facility. So I just, I said, no. I said, that's, that's what I remember. That's what I know. And I just continued onward and, you know, we talked small talk, you know, and I didn't, I tried not to, I tried not to just discuss that the whole way back. I only answered questions that he asked me. And I'd look and say, oh, that's a pretty cow over there along the road on the highway or,

you know, this is a really beautiful country up here. You know, I just tried to get my mind and his questioning all. of me for a little bit. I guess that was kind of like the refreshing part of taking a bath in the sink, you know, was getting some of that off of me. But I could tell he was concerned, and he did say something concerned, something about when his dad was young and he were fishing or something that they saw something. But that's all he said.

He didn't sit going to it anymore. And I just tried to tell him, I don't think he could comprehend. the size of this thing. I really don't. Because I told him, I said, in my opinion, I said it be at least at least the size of the SATAF building, which is our security police main ops building back on base and which was an old B-52 hanger converted into office area and training area for us. Some people say the size of a football field, they literally mean. Yeah, it really is the size of a football field. And I think to our visitors size has no meaning whatsoever. They do whatever they, whatever they need, I guess. I don't know. But so 55 minutes back went into the box elder gate,

which is the back gate at Ellsworth, went to the Seataph building. He brought me up to the side door. I got my stuff, my ditty bag, and I followed him in. Went in front of, um, Colonel Ralph Spaker's office door Of course he had me set on a bench Outside the door And he was a security police commander And he'd been a pretty good guy After that time when I'd had interaction with Colonel Spaker

And he knew me By name And they try to know everybody And also that There are about 800 security policemen at Ellsworth Air Force Base, whether they work aircrafts or they work missiles. So they said that one in four people that you'd meet walking down the sidewalk or in the BX or commissary was a security policeman, which was true, which was, I mean, really was.

So when he came back out, he was in about 15 or 20 minutes with the commander. When he came back out, he said, all, he's ready to see you now. He said, report in. So that meant, you know, a formal report in, meaning I got up and my Sergeant Gray went back into the room and over to the right side of the room. And Colonel Spaker's desk was like straight ahead, maybe 20, 25 feet, a rather large size office. So I hit, banged on the door, you know, like that. And he said, enter, you know, and I walked up to his desk, but then three feet of it. And I said, senior, I was reporting his ordered, sir, instead of detention until he told me,

I could go out at ease, which I did. And not really looking, but counting people. as I went in, there was a total of five people in there, and there were three standing, one standing and two sitting over to my left, one young guy, medium-age guy, or middle-aged guy, maybe in his 30s or so. Then there was a tall older man, and he had on a, like, a gray tweed suit and a hat, and he had the hat under his arm. So I thought maybe he was ex-military or something, because, you know, you don't wear your lid, your cover inside any building at any time. and then had the deputy base commander was there besides colonel spraker colonel spraker was behind his desk and the deputy base commander was sitting over to his right

and he said well senior would seem like you've had an interesting evening that's what he said interesting evening and i didn't i just looked at him and i said uh yes sir just that's all i knew to say because you want to tell us about it I said, yes, sir, and I looked to my left, and I remember him saying something like, don't worry about them, because I thought maybe he'd introduce me to them or something, this is so-and-so, so-and-so, but I didn't rate that high, ranked that high, so they didn't have to tell me anything. So I went through the whole thing of telling them about flashing the light at this thing,

you know, out to the east side of the side, and where it was located in the sky and what I did and who I told because they had to be brought in and talked to as well. It wasn't just me. You had a crop rate? Yeah, everybody that was involved had to be talked to. And talking about Michael Johnson, how he acted. And again, I asked him, how is Michael Johnson? And I kept telling, don't worry about Michael Johnson.

He'll be just fine. Is it just about you and what we're talking about in this room right now? I said, yes, sir. And Master Sergeant Gray, he was sitting over to my, he was over my right. and he was standing. He wasn't sitting either. They went through everything. I guess Sergeant Gray had said something

or told him a little bit about what happened. I really don't know because he started, Colonel Spaker started saying some things like, well, tell me about the size of this craft. Tell me about this. Tell me about, you know, this item that came down over the hood and around your vehicle. What did you smell?

I told him I smelled. And I explained all that, Nobody ever questioned or said a word about any of that. And this one on put questions and answers by me for about two and a half hours. Wow. So I'd been up all that time and got into the base. I guess it was about 10, 10, 10, 30 that morning. That's in his office still at 12.30 or so.

And I knew he was pushing for me to say something about seeing He kept me Is there anything you're not telling me? Is there anything you're not telling me? And I said, no, sir. I wouldn't say what I saw at all out the side of that window. How do you think they knew? I have no idea.

I hadn't said anything unless Michael Johnson had said something, but I don't know if he did. I don't think he did. I really don't know. But I did get answers a few weeks later, not by them, but by Michael Johnson, and I'll go into that. Well, so, and this man in the gray Tweed suit, you never find out who he is.

And I know that. Skinny, a real skinny guy, too. Tall? Yeah, he's tall and skinny. Gaunt, like, yeah. Yeah, emaciated looking. I was like, what is this guy? He needs to eat something.

I mean, really, I thought that. He was old. Older? 50s, 60s, somewhere like that. And then the men sitting next to him was Captain Jack Reed, and he was the OSI, commander or officer in charge at Ellsworth at that time and sitting next to him was a young officer OSI named Rick Doty. Richard Doty, yeah.

And I didn't know him from Adam's Housecat. This is early in 77. Early in his career. Yeah, I'd never known him or I didn't even think anything about him. or? But he was OSI. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yes, he was. Probably just on some training, too. Like, I mean. That's what he later told me. He was there to study stat communications. They had something going on with some communication activities that it didn't understand or something. And he told me. He,

it's so, it's, you know, when you mention his name in this topic, and for those are not familiar with Richard Doty, he's got a sorted history with misinformation. And it's really hard to take. what he says at face value. But, you know, if it were possible to take what he says at face value, he's got to have some interesting stories. Oh, my God.

If we were able to believe anything he said, yes. If he's in a room like that, how many other rooms like that was he in? Exactly. So, okay. But these, this, this tall gentleman as well in the Tweed suit, it was it Bob Jacobs who had mentioned? No, who was, who had mentioned the Tweed suit? suits. There was another instance of gentlemen in tweet suits. I think it was Bob Jacobs when he got debriefed.

Oh, okay. All right. Going back to that. Yeah. Yeah, when they were telling him like, oh, you didn't see anything or whatever. You didn't see anything. Don't ever talk about it again? Yeah, there was a gentleman in tweed suits again. And it was a light gray as an ugly suit, even for 1977. I thought. Not military. Yeah, no, not military. And for a civilian to be in that room. Yeah. I mean, what the heck? You don't get access to that type of thing as a civilian. Especially, you know, the sensitive nature of the area, let alone a sighting with some unidentified object, you're sitting on a base that has nukes. No civilian is just going to walk into a room of the colonel and listen in on some type of debrief.

Like, what is your position, sir? Where are you from? Absolutely. OSI has to be there. Yes. But this other gentleman dressed as a, you know, in civilian garb is, is unusual. Very unusual. And that's the way I didn't, I felt, I felt something from him.

I don't know what it was, but I was, I don't know, I, I knew where Colonel Spaker stood, and I knew where the deputy base commander was standing. I know how they were feeling and, you know, they had to go look at radar. They had to go look at a whole lot of things. I mean, the tower would have picked that thing up. Yeah. I never got anything. I never got any information concerning that.

I mean, they just shut me down as quickly as possible. And our talking, our debriefing, went on, like I said, two and a half or so hours. A lot of things discussed there. Yeah. And after what I'd already been through back at November control with Master of Sard & Grave, I mean, I don't know if any of those, that one officer that was in the room in the day room with us. and anybody else. Maybe they made phone calls and maybe they had information

that we talked about there and not in the commander's office because it just seemed as if they had something pre-set up before I got there. How long did these people know about this before I even arrived? How long had they been in that room and what had they discussed?

That was a question that I brought to Rick Doty when I finally made communication with him in 2008, 2019, Did he give you any information that you deem valuable? He just simply said he knew of it and knew that there were two of us and that he was sent to medical to pick up our medical records because I was taken in the commander's staff car by a driver over when our debriefing stopped in the commander's office.

I was asked to go to the flight surgeon's office to be examined. So I did as I was told, and they all stayed behind. But when I got over, when that driver took me over to the hospital, to the flight surgeon's office, there were two flight surgeons in there. And when I got there, Rick Doty and that Jack Reed, they were already there. And this was the kind of examination room that had those, and it's important, and I'll tell you this, They had those gray dividers of the 50s, 60s vintage that separated, like, examination rooms, and then they had like that wavy glass at the top of them.

So they were only outside of that looking toward where I was. And I went, it was a nurse, and there were two of these fly surgeons when I went in there. And the taller one said to me, he said, senior, what is he said? You had an interesting evening, I understand. Again. So I just looked at him. I said, yes, sir. He goes, asked me if I'd disrobe, which I did, and, you know, down to my underwear and a wet t-shirt.

And so they examined me, eyes, nose, ears, throat, elbows, everything, and just talking and talking between themselves. They'd walk off for a second. They'd talk, and that whole process probably took 30, 40 minutes to do that. And then the short one came over, and he reached, to a box as he was talking to me and he says, how are you feeling? And I said, I feel okay. I said, I'm a little tired. I haven't slept in a long time.

And he reaches in and gets one of these gloves and pops it on his hand. Well, you know, I immediately thought, you know, I wasn't ready for that, but I got, I had to participate. That's one thing about the military when they're going to do something. They're going to do it, you know? And, uh, so I just kind of, okay, well,

here we go. And he goes, do you mind? if I, I need to look at your gums. I said, what? Johnson, I didn't see it, but I sensed it for some reason. I couldn't talk to him. They wouldn't like to see him again.

He goes, I need to look at your gums. I'd never had braces or cavities or anything in my life. And, you know, I always, I was always good on that, on that point. and so I opened my mouth and this man took his thumb and his index finger and he spent about two two and a half minutes in my mouth just squeezing my gums really hard pressing down against the floor of my of my jaw inside thumb up in the roof of the mouth and he just really just kind of sectored every part of the inside of my mouth all the way back to where I had wisdom teeth at the time all the way back into my wisdom teeth and just pressing and pushing and, you know, and he would say something to himself, but I really couldn't make heads or tails of what he was saying. He didn't really speak something like a word, you know, like, I see this or I see that, or then he, when he stopped, he walked back over to the tall guy and they just turned their backs to me and they were 10 feet away or so. The nurse is

standing over there. And then she, they turn around and say something to her and she walks over and she's got a little metal plate about like, or a tray. And it's got two vials on her. about that long and they were they were they were glass they were they were a metal metal vile and he goes he walked back over to me both of them did didn't say anything else about my about my gum at all i mean i'm still feeling you know i'm still feeling the pressure it was he left in my mouth when he when he stopped so i don't know what was coming next but he goes um he goes you know you have a couple you have some burns on your body and i said excuse me he goes yeah you got he reached up and he grabbed me by the he goes right up here he said you got a little you got a little burn right here above this eye and he said

look on your hand and i went like this and you know i'm an old tampa boy so i know what sunburns like and when you spend time like in the northwest in a long period of time and then you go down to tampa florida and you lay on the beach you're going to get smoked because that happened to me but i could feel it when they said that and really felt it more the next day so he opens up this file and it had a tool in it he opens it up and he takes he does the hand first and he takes a sample from over here and then one from over here

and it's on the same tool how is it a sample is it just like a tweezer with a blunt end on it like this and he just kind of go like that takes a piece of skin takes a piece of skin and then he goes and he goes to the next location and he does the same thing but it's it's together I mean it wasn't the same

that piece of meat was with this piece I guess it just put it all together he just snip snip snip like that and then he reached up and he put it in that little violin put a rubber stopper on top of it laid it down on a tray and got the other one out and even right here above my eye and he did the same thing and they took they just took samples didn't take blood didn't take urine nothing nothing didn't take hair sample nothing put it on the file the nurse came over and picked the stuff up went over there with it and put it down they went over and talked for a few more minutes and he said senior Mouye says you can go ahead and get dressed he says we got any questions we'll let you know

and i said yes sir you got any questions yeah yeah if i got yeah i'm sorry yeah well if you got questions how rude yeah they don't they don't care man they yeah no i know i know i get it they really don't care but god and i so and then they just left so here i am you know putting my stuff back on my clothes are still wet from the bath i took in the sink and You know, I'm thinking, how much more this is my going? The nurse was gone. But there's OSI guys were gone, too. There was nobody out there.

So I was literally by myself. And then I walked out the way I came in. And in the hallway, there was a driver for the commander's vehicle. So I saw him, and he's just, he's an airman. Airman first, I think. And I didn't even say anything to him. I just walked out and got in the backseat of the vehicle. And I said, I remember saying some, I don't know what that was all about,

but they didn't tell me a damn thing. he didn't say anything at all. He drove me back to the Saita building, got out. He made sure I went to the commander's office, too. It seemed like they wanted to really watch everything that I did, where I went, you know, in going to these different places, whether it would be over to the examination area with the flight surgeons and then back to the commander's office,

they didn't want to lose sight of me or something. So I go back in and I got to do the formal report in again now, and all those people are staged back in there. this is a spectacle and uh so i go back in and report in colonel's breaker he doesn't really tell me to stand at ease i'm standing there at attention and he he um he says he gives me a form

and a pen and he says uh i'm going to put you in this little conference room right here he goes i want you to write everything that's happened to you and what we've just got everything he says i want you to do a full report from when you first saw this thing to being picked everything said from A to Z to being here. And I said, yes, sir. And I, you know, I felt that wasn't the easy part. What I'd gone through already was the hard part. I still didn't know I was going to explain this to my wife and the two band-aids on me. And mind you, I should have been in the missile field three days to come in the

morning of the fourth, come back to the morning of the fourth. Well, I'd only been out one day. this happened now, I'm back in one day, you know, the next day. And I got band-aids on me. So this small, just, but the question was going to be asking. I knew it, and I didn't know how to answer that. But so I went in there and I sat down at this oak desk at the end of the, in these old wooden chairs, oak chairs. I just tried to take a mental picture of all these things, you know,

because I knew they were going to be important some way or another. I don't know, I think to prove myself or something. So I took about the next hour and a half, maybe more, and I printed this whole thing. Oh, and any mistake that you made, you have to line through the word and put an initial on it. You know that, so. So I wrote from A to Z, the entire incident,

Michael Johnson's name, the initial, I even knew the time of the alarm. I mean, everything, all the other information, was in the security police blotter at November control. So that would be turned in on the fourth day, unless it was circumvented, they went out there and got it, I don't know. Because each blotter, when we arrived in the missile field,

and this is what really gets me, trying to locate Michael Johnson, everybody's name, rank, and Social Security number is on that security police blotter. When you first get to the field, that's an entry that for every single person on that site, that information is there. So that is somewhere. And you could locate him by a Social Security number. I don't care where he is. If he pays taxes in this country, we could find him.

But yeah, no, the Arrow or FBI or anybody else has not done that yet, and I've challenged him to do so. So I write this whole thing up. It takes me a while, and they're still out there. They didn't leave. I don't know if they were drinking coffee, what they were talking about, what they're doing. So I go back out there, go back to his desk, stand in front of an attention,

hand it to him, put it on his desk, he turns it around, he takes it, he's reading it, looking at it, going through it. I mean,

fine tooth combing. It's, this thing's in carbon copy. It's three copies, you know, from one page. And I had two pages of it. And it's super,

super print is small, because there's a lot of information there, you know? Yeah. I wasn't given a copy. I wasn't offered a copy of anything. And once that was done,

And it's signed. I signed it on the bottom, had my name rank of Social Security number, everything on that form. He takes it, sits on his right side on his right side on his desk, and then he motions over for Captain Jack Reed. He comes over and he's got a form, and that's the part where I guess, I don't know if we call it a non-disclosure at that time, but they read me the riot act and said that everything said within this confines of this room. and the people that know about this incident shall not speak about it to anyone else in any way, fashion or form, including, you know, spouses, brothers, sisters, anybody that only the people in this room shall know about this and the people that are involved with the initial investigation from back of November control.

And I agree to it, and I said, yes, sir. So I turn it around to me and I read pretty much everything I just described there. and I signed it and put my, I signed it, put my name, rank, and it was dated and everything. My social security number was on it. And I wanted to ask, well, do I get a copy of that? I didn't, they wouldn't give me a copy of anything.

The medical records? No, no copy of any medical records at all. So once they were, I guess, pleased with what they had after they read, reviewed, and I did have to go back into the other room while they talked amongst themselves for, I don't know, 10 or 15 minutes. I came back out, and then I reported back to Colonel Sprecker,

and he said, you can call, you know, home or whatever you've got to do to, you can go home the rest of the day. So that gave me, you know, not only those three days, but it gave me an additional three days off, you know, to just ponder this whole thing and get this in my mind because I knew there was going to be people, especially, you know, my wife that I had to explain this to. And then, of course, there were friends of mine that I work with.

They're going to have questions. Well, they weren't even allowed to ask me questions. You know, and I didn't see any of them for a long, long period of time because they just keep you separated. And again, they never sent me back to November control. I went to Keelow Control, which, is the alternate command post. Wing security control is the command post

for all activities in and around the missile field or all things to do with missiles. In the event that CSC, security control or wing security control, I even want to call it, was compromised. Then Keelow Control stands in as that control facility and direction

because all the supervision and all the officers reside at Keelow Control, which is right up next to Wyoming border and as a sister flight to November control. So they had me there and put me with a guy named Mark Wade. We had the same initials. He was a really nice guy, and he knew about it. And he was the one that I saw two mutilated cattle with in the Kilo area early one morning.

Well, about 10 a.m. We had to sleep on a missile site until the maintenance team got there. And there was an investigation going on with local law enforcement at a corral area where there were two mutilated cattle and we stopped and looked at them. The missing skin, the whole deal. Trimmed around the mouth area, you know, and I didn't know anything about that. I did know about Linda Moulton Howl looking for him at that time. Or, you know, and there was another thing that I want to say is that when all this stuff started going on, the there was a that newspaper or the um everybody can't stand to read or inquire inquirer they were they had

people going through all the missile sites not the sites themselves but mynott malstrom because you know like what had happened uh sure to robert salis you know at malstrom you know in it was 67 wasn't it and what had happened at my not so they had all these people out trying to gather these stories and we were told of course you couldn't talk to anything. anybody. You were told formally. Yeah, you don't speak to anybody, any news media whatsoever. And they didn't call it news media. They just said news people at that time. They didn't have a word for media. And so that's where I had to live out. The rest of my stay at Ellsworth Air Force Base was at Keelow Control with Mark Wade, which was okay. I just tried to put it all behind me and think

that it would never happen again, you know, and it would all be. forgotten about, but still the fact always remained that for weeks I worried about not doing my job. Was I going to be Article 15 or what was going to happen to me, which didn't happen? What's Article 15? That's under the Uniform Code of Military Justice where they see that you've done something, you know, unscrupulous or illegal or you did something, you just did anything that they don't approve of and you cause damage or hurts. You know, there's many a thing. Your hair can be touching your ear and a commander see you. And, you know, you're out of 35, 10 standards, you know.

Like, you can't have that beard. You can't have this. And they can article 15 you, which they suspend your rank for six months, take $600 or $800 from you or more. And it just, you know, you don't make that much money anyway. I mean, they make a lot more now than we did that. They use that threat quite regularly. Oh, all the time.

Yes, sir. That's how they keep you in check. Yeah. You mess with your pension, mess with your rank. Mess of your clearances. Everything. Everything. You know,

but anyway, about 15, 18 days later, I was at home my apartment, still wondering the whole time, Chris, where is Michael Johnson? I wanted to speak to that man so badly, I couldn't tell you. And all of a sudden I got this feeling

and a knock came upon my door. And we lived at Haynesway Apartments in Rapid City. and he had talked to some guys back in the barracks about where I lived, and sure enough, he came to my apartment to talk to me about it. And before he arrived, that knock, when it came on the door, I knew it was him. Don't have a clue how's why. I'd never been to my apartment before.

I'd never met him personally like that in civilian clothes. So I opened the door, and I said, Michael, I said, man, how are you? He said, I'm okay. And with a direct look at my eyes, he said, we got to talk about this thing. And I said, yes, we do. I said, come on it. So he came in just a simple one bedroom apartment.

And my wife was there. And I said, well, she's going to find. I said, she suspects some things by what I've been having to go back to the base. And it was several times I had to go back and answer more questions, you know. But I tried to block those out. And it was the same thing. He just kept trying to see if there was something I wasn't telling them, which there was, and I wouldn't about to tell him anyway.

And so he comes in, and I said, let's draw what we saw. I said, I gave him a yellow notepad, and I had one too, and I said, I'm going to sit here, you sit there. And I think I put him at the dining room table, and I sat at the coffee table, and my couch. And I drew the craft and all that, and all that. And he drew the same thing. He remembered the bright lights.

He remembered many things that I didn't even think he was aware of. And I told him, you know, the state that he was in holding on at that steering wheel. And I remember him saying something like, no, I wasn't. I said, yes, you are? I said, Garza and I had to pull your hands off of that steering wheel. You did? I said, yeah. What was his memory of it?

Well, he said that he heard, saw, and smelled everything that I did. And then he heard, do not fear, do not fear. Did he see the beings? No. He didn't say it. Because he didn't turn his head, yeah. He didn't say that. But he felt the do not fear?

Yeah. Who said this first? Was it you were him? Him. He told you before you told him. Yes. So he's opening up to you and he's giving you the exact same things that you experienced. And he said, and I felt do not fear?

And yes, do not fear, do not fear. What was your reaction to that, Mario? I just did it with my mouth open. I said, you're kidding me. I said, man, I was freaking out. I said, you were just frozen to the steering wheel. He goes, I heard and saw everything. I said, did you see what was on the right side?

No, he never saw them. You told them? Yes, I told him. What was his reaction to that? He didn't really have one. He just suspected it, but he didn't, I guess it was the angle or something. You know, my right side and his left side, I don't know. But he said one thing that floored me, man.

to the pits of my stomach he said but i remember your glove on a shiny floor and i said what what are you talking about a glove on the shiny floor i had a really specialized pair of gloves that a b 52 bomber pilot gave me my first couple of nights when i was at elswer when i first was assigned there and i was staying in the b aque which is like the on-base hotel and the rooms there are not single rooms they're like sheriff with bunk beds there might be ten or 15 people in there one night all come into the base or there may be one person in there or you know that kind of thing is whoever's arriving usually stays there until there's an assignment you know or till their rooms are assigned to them and they meet their commanders and people in their

department in their divisions the next the next day literally and uh so he gave me a pair of these aviators gloves chris that came up to about right here now and fit on the outside of your park of but they were like a mitt and they had they covered three fingers then you had your index finger for trigger control for whatever your trigger was in an aircraft or on a weapon and they had a fur backing and they were like a yellow gold color beautiful glove my dad had the same ones you can't even find them today yeah hunted everywhere for them and uh i remember as a kid we wear them and we just white the snot off our face with the uh you know with the furry side of it and the cold well that's what it's for too it's for that just wash it off once in a while or maybe not but i remember your glove on a

shiny floor. And I had no recollection of a shiny floor. I said, what are you even talking about, dude? Michael, what are you talking about? And he goes, I'm telling you, Mario, your glove was laying, he said it was laying face up this way. Your right hand glove was laying on a shiny floor. And I say, well, I said, the only thing I knew to do, I ran in my bedroom where I kept my ditty bag in the closet because my wife didn't want to see it. It had to be put away. So I grabbed my ditty bag and I came back out and living room. The whole time, this woman's just sitting over.

She's sitting in one of the upright chairs just watching this and listening and all this going on. I don't know in disbelief or what it was, but I unzipped that bag, man, and there's, you know, there's underwear, there are total trees. There's all kind of stuff. Extra uniforms. There's a radio in there. You couldn't have cameras, unfortunately. That's one thing they wouldn't allow.

us to do or take pictures of anything on the site or something like that. So I just dumped my bag out on the couch. Everything was there except my right-hand glove. Left-hand glove was there? No right-hand glove. Never recovered that. So I guess they kept it, or whoever, whatever, kept it. But I couldn't believe he brought that up and he said that to me.

I saw your glove on a shiny floor. That's proof. Yeah. He lived in the barracks, like I say, and he gave me his address that day, his parents' address in Chicago, Illinois. And we talked, you know, talked to really, you know, he said, you know, he loved to fish,

and we talked about some things like that. Things we didn't get to talk about working together. We didn't get to discuss any of that stuff. And usually, we all, as guys, we always do, you know, and like motorcycles or, you know, you ride a bicycle or you skateboard, you play, you know, whatever you might do, weight lift, whatever. We didn't get to talk about any of that.

But we got to talk about a little bit of it that day. So I wrote it down on a nice index card and I put it in my Bible. The pastor gave me when my father passed away. And I kept it up on a dresser and I had it for years, for years. And he wrote it. He wrote it. I might have recopied it or something, but I had all in, I had his information. I wish I'd had his social security number.

And, you know, back in that time, a guy would probably give you your social security number and not think two things about it. You know, you can't do that today, of course, but back then it could have done that. I wish I'd have had something else that could have latched onto him later in years because those thoughts have always been in my mind. What else could I have done to, you know,

to wrangle him, to get him back in if he's still alive, wherever he may be, he's the other half of this whole thing, you know? Wherever he is, regardless of who's entwined in this history, he's the other half of this that I've just got to find. I've got a friend Steve Zimk. and he's in Rapid City. And he's the fellow that led me to the state trooper that took the call from Wing Security Control

to come and look for us. And that's perhaps something else I should address because I didn't even find that out until that Discovery Plus in 2021. How long after the initial incident when you blacked out was that call made? Well, it was made approximately 2 o'clock in the morning. So not too long after.

So you were missing at that point. Yeah, we were missing. And not only that, but when security control had contacted the local law enforcement in Sturgis, they had a larger police force. And they sent two deputies 30 miles north to where we were located looking for us. So we had a state trooper and two deputies and two different cars looking for us. And if you're out there, you'll see somebody. If they're driving the car, you'll eventually see.

headlights. Yeah, you absolutely. There's no way around it. You were just not there. We were so far off the, off the road, but behind New Lake Reservoir Dam to start with, I mean, we just had to be located. And the only way to locate us was that radio signaling triangulation. Who knows where you were before that? Don't know. But what I was getting out, I didn't find that out until 21 that these officers, by the son of the state trooper, his son came to November 5 or 100 yards down from November 5 because the producer didn't want to stand where our vehicle was located because there's a cattle, some type of red and white cattle production or storage facility on the site now at November 5.

and do that because there's a rock bed there and they keep their hay and stuff up off the ground, you know, out of the feeding their, feeding their cattle and stuff. It's this all ranching area. But so in essence, we had about 11 people looking for us. And I never knew that. I was never told that a state trooper and two deputies were looking for us as well. You found out what year? I think it was 2021.

When went out there with Discovery Plus, and it was total. by total accident, that they, these two guys even showed up watching this film on the side of the road. And they knew your story. Yeah. They had seen it somewhere before or something. I'm really not sure. One of them had, and he told the other. But it was a crazy thing on Ormond Road, dirt road, and you can go all the way to Wyoming on that road, I believe.

There was a parade of people because, you know, Newell is such a small town. The population today is 6.50. It was 2.30 at the time. And when they found out that it was a film crew out there filming on Ormond Road, so we get this big parade of people coming by. And there was one guy that drove by in a pickup truck. And he had two-by-fours in an old pickup truck in the little slots, you know that it's on the bed of the pickup truck around it.

And he had chicken wire around it. And he had a horse standing up in the middle out in the back of that pickup truck. And we all just looked at that and went, wow, you know, such a place, man. It's such a place there. You think there's other people in Newell that saw the craft? I hope there is.

And what we thought that... There's a case in Newell, though, in like the 60s as well, right? Not sure. I think I read about a flying saucer sighting, multiple flying saucers in the 60s in Newell. And in, I will tell, in Sturgis there is and Deadwood.

Yeah. Yeah, big cylinder type craft in both of those areas. Prior to your, you know. But going back to that, I was so amazed and I found out that these guys knew that this took place. I just feel so jilted by the way the Air Force ended up by what they did and or how they did it. I don't think they knew any better. I really don't. And if they did, if they did, then shame on them for treating their own people like that, you know, because when you go in a military, regardless of what job you're in, you know, there's a chance that somewhere along the line that you could be involved in some kind of combat action and lose your life.

Because you're fighting for this country and the people in it. Because you care about them. I do. I still do. I took the oath and now it's never gone away from me. I'd go back today if they'd have me at 70 years old in a heartbeat. But just to find those things out, it really floored me in that glove on that shiny floor. I've never forgotten that statement.

I've never forgotten the ice bullet that he sent out when he said that to me. I just, it just took me a bath. And I just wish so badly that we could find him. Well, if anyone, if this rings a bell, if your family member is named Michael Johnson, if you've got a grandpa out there, a father and uncle, a cousin that's in perhaps the Detroit area or at least has family in the Detroit area and served in the Air Force at Ellsworth in the 70s, late 70s, mid to late 70s, reach out to us, figure it out. I got an email here. I would love any information you have on this, even if it's the tiniest bit of information, but this is the internet. And, you know, luckily, with, you know, you on here

and people watching, like, there is a chance that you can get an answer to this. Always, just anything, anything. I just want to know about him, whether he says, I don't want to talk to you or I don't want to come forward. It kind of reminds me of Terry Lovelace and Toby, his partner, you know.

and Toby did not take it well at all from what Terry's told me and ended up costing him his life, you know, whether it be from, he had a problem afterwards. And it's very hard to contend with, and it's very difficult for people that care about you to hear about it and to experience it because it affects you every day. I'm not the same person at home that I am here telling you, this, you know, I'm, this thing affects me all the time. There's, I watch stuff on the news. I watch stuff, you know, on, on TV or YouTube videos, you know, about people that I know

that things like this have happened to. And it's all going somewhere. And I think, I feel at this point of the game that archaeology and what's being discovered in, say, for instance, Egypt, I think, I think there's a lot to be said for, and the in the correlation of all this coming together in some way. And I don't know if we'll, if our government or any government will ever say, okay, this is what we have, throw it out on a table, here's this piece, here's that piece, we glean this information, that engine came from this piece right here.

That happened, this happened, here's an individual, here's different types of individuals. I just don't see them saying that. I think the only way that could ever happen is if they, in turn, they themselves just make themselves known and just shut everybody else up. Just say, here we are, what you're going to do now? And I don't think you're coming here to harm us. And I think you've been here a long time already and know everything about us. Well, let's talk about them for a second.

You ended up getting regressed hypnotically by Bob Upton and Yvonne Smith, was it? Yeah, that was with John Blitch's boat in the area. That's right. At two separate occasions. Now, yeah. You know, what's interesting about this is, A, like many people, and I've, I've been able to actually hypnotize people through, like, entertainment purposes as a magician. Like, I've dabbled there and I've studied it and I have friends who do it professionally for entertainment. It's very real.

It's very. And for someone who, I know the feeling, because I've seen it happen to people so many times, the feeling of, oh, you can't hypnotize me. I've seen firsthand, and I've, you know, part-partook in this firsthand, yes. Those people getting hypnotized. And it is, it is quite shocking to people, especially people who don't really believe in hypnosis. Right. To watch someone you know and trust and love and understand be hypnotized.

Absolutely. You see that and it changes you. It changes you. You go, oh, wait a second. He just hit an off switch on him. That's so strange. So you, and I say this because I want to preface, you were that person. You were like, I don't, not for me.

That's right. Yeah. Could you tell us what happened? Yeah. Robert Upton, Bob Upton, he was trying to zoom into specific items or points of interest that Robert Haysings had put forth in hypnotizing me. and the way he did it, it just seemed as if I was going to sleep. And I remember it because they were roofing my house. Excuse me, just after a hurricane, they were re-roofing my house.

I had damage. Does that your home? Yeah, in my back bedroom. So you could hear all these guys with nail guns and walking across the roof. And even though my roof is very high on my home, you could still hear it. And I thought, well, it's no way he can feel to hypnotize me with all this. now noise going on and that hadn't been planned he had set it up for that particular day to i think he drove up from jacksonville delibe in brunswick and um there may have been may have been

further away than that i'm i can't remember uh yet or i just don't recall but so anyway but all this stuff going on he somehow manages to get me to think and i'm going down a stairwell or something, he said, into the water. And I kept thinking about that noise correlation to going down a stairway and, you know, like there's a couple of places I've been in my life, like in springs and stuff where you walk down a stairwell into the stairway into the water,

like blue sinks in some of those places. And that's what I did. And before I knew it, I was smelling that smell and visualizing, you know, certain things that he was asking me questions about and he was guiding me, you know, in this. And there were things that I came up against, visions that I saw that really, really upset me. Are they coming to you now? Yeah. I answered all of his questions. It was very difficult because I had like a lot closer reaction

of proximity to what was on the right side of our vehicle to these, to these beings on the right side of the vehicle. I mean, I literally, it was my heartbeat, but, um, Okay, so he was in control. The little thing was on another side of the vehicle, the little craft was on another side of the vehicle. What Michael was? And what was Michael doing? He was still looking straight ahead. I don't even think he could blink his ass. Okay.

Was within a couple of feet of them. They were within a couple of feet of me. And I was on my back. And I had a whole lot of pain in this wrist right here. my hand was turned outward like this and I was being grappled in some way here from this direction and something something was putting pressure down inside of my wrist here a tall one was doing that to my right wrist it's like in and out glimpses of a of a living nightmare and that smell that smell just it just permeate just goes through you and you can't you can't uh you can't get rid of it i i knew there i knew there was something wrong with me because um it seems as if you it seems as if you come up to a you come up to a veil of i want to call it a veil like there's something in front of you

that stops you from looking past it that uh extremely excites, I don't know, I don't want to call it fear. It's something that you have to get past to see what's on the other side, though. And that's why I call it a veil. And when I did, I felt like I shook myself apart. I felt like I was just shaking, shaking apart inside. And somehow another, I managed to get myself into AFib. I'd never had that before, never knew what it was,

never had any kind of heart issues whatsoever. And I remember he kept telling me that, you know, nothing could harm me, nothing could harm me, but believe me where I was, everything was harming me or trying to. And then I didn't, I couldn't understand what I was really experiencing. And I guess after about 45 minutes or so, and I answered every question he said, I went through every question that he asked me,

I answered everything as the best I could, but that veil persisted. And when I broke that, when I went through that veil, as I feel as if I did, and saw what I saw, and still see it right now, even looking at you, I still see it, just like it can just push over a vision. And I just see, I just see. I just thought my heart was going to come out of my chest. At no time could you hear any of the stuff going on on my roof or anything like that. It was all the noise that was taking place up there and all the work was being done.

And he got to a point where he felt as if he had to get me out of it. I'd answered everything he asked me. And when he brought me up, I knew there was something wrong, but I did tell him one thing that I think surprised him. And I told him, I said, those big dark eyes that these little ones have, have their shields they're not um they're not their eyes there it's a shield that uh shields them

from bright light because their eyes i saw a round pupil about that big around is huge what color blue white blue a medium blue not light or dark blue but just a medium blue and i and i saw it plain as day i mean right there in my face and That's the thing with hypnosis, how he can do, I guess, how he can bring a vision to you like that. Was that the tall one? No, that was a short one that had the eye thing. The tall ones are completely different. And the fear comes from that tall guy, whether it's a guy or whatever, I don't know.

But that's what the fears instill. The little ones don't make you have that kind of fear. that big one that in that tall and that big one you think that it's got ready to eat you or something and then now that you can do about it you don't have any control of yourself you have no functionality of your own body you can't defend yourself structurally and then the i think of i think there was a there was a male the one that was uh that was uh that i cussed at or whatever I said that I was um you cost at it told him I told him he's hurt me you know and uh and you couldn't move yeah and the other thing was the uh this table that that I was on for instance that's my head this is the table that I felt and I got to draw this just right

But looking at it in this way, this was like some type of a field that was projected this way over my body and my hand was up through it like this. And they were reaching down into this like some type of a psychic veil or something. I guess on the crack, because it's as if my hand's in their atmosphere and I'm in my own. atmosphere. Mm-hmm. But something that you could be pulled in and out of, or parts of your body moved in and out. Was it invisible?

Or was it? A blue hue, like a, yeah. I mean, it's not, it'd be just like something. opaque or? No. Like glass or gas or. Projected almost. Something like a field generated.

And you, you're inside of it. But, you know, what he was doing, what it, it ended up being a female. I heard a female voice. You heard a voice? Yeah, just. In your ears? You know, in my body. And it was female.

It was a female voice. We're not, you know, not hurting you or not hurting you or something like that. I don't know the exact word, but we're not hurting you or we're not hurting you. They never moved her bells, start. They talk to you inside. Talk to a gel or something. They talk to something that they put in you. It resonates.

And then I was cussing, and that's what I remember about that. You were yelling, physically yelling? I don't know if I was yelling, but I was cussing because I was hurting. Yeah. I was afraid and I was hurting. There's a lot of pain? Do you think the pain was fear-induced, or do you think that it was like real pain? It was real pain.

burning real pain in that wrist. And I always think about that. Right now my hands, I don't know if that has anything to do with anything. My hands are completely numb. And there's other things going on. I do have two marks in my body besides those burns. I have two marks, both of them. One one is under my left arm, the other's on my left ankle.

I sent you pictures of those also. And I don't have answers for it. world. You know, I really don't. And people can say or think what they want, but I only know what I experienced and what I've gone through. And it's been 48 years ago for me. But there's so much more. There's so much more to the whole thing that is, it's, sometimes it's just very difficult to, to arrange it all to, to, to tell it. It just, and recalling things like this, sometimes more comes back than, what I went in with, you know, I pick up more than I first started with. And you got to process that?

Yeah. Did you, you see Michael? Yeah. And with Yvonne, with Yvonne Smith, he was laying opposite to me in a direction. Like, he was facing the opposite direction, which I was. And when I talk about this little, the little guy with, the blue eyes, he was between both of us. And there was a hand on me right here.

And I don't know if that was for a calming effect, but I'm shaking like hell about it right now. But I don't know what that. And mind you, this is, hypnosis is extremely, you know, speculative. And I have never, ever said that I've been abducted. I've never said that because I don't know that for real. I only know what visions came into my mind and through hypnosis, but I don't recollect physically of ever being abducted.

I know I've had close proximity, and I know I've smelled them, I know I've seen them, but that's as far as I'll go with that. I understand. Yeah, Yvonne Smith, she's very good at what she does. And I think that's when I learned different things in this hypnosis about Michael. and about seeing the visions that I've seen, because, and that doesn't even include the dreams,

that all this, that comes with all of this, from the very beginning, from within a couple of days of after this whole thing's happened, you know. Dreams of them or dreams of other things? Apocalyptic type things, tidal waves, desert underwater, earthquakes, the sun, blast from the sun. There's nuclear explosions.

I mean, I've even felt the heat from a dream in a nuclear explosion. I've even felt the heat from a blast of, you know, that would be. You'd be vaporized, of course, but I've done that and felt that. but when she hypnotized me we were on we were on the water on a large boat on a large craft and it was and with

on the dock were seals and uh in in l.A right there by by long beach and um they were so loud like barking dogs on an aluminum on an aluminum those aluminum floating docks they have there and that was the

the night we had we had um that was a super cold night we had or they had in los angeles when it snowed even on the hollywood signs there was snow and ice and it went from i don't even know what the temperature was when i first arrived there but it got cold as i don't know what man and then that was when we finished um that night age of disclosure when i finished filming that and and it was word because i had to fly out the next day so i went with with uh john blitch and then uh yvonne came down to do this hypnosis for us. But I think being over water had a greater effect

than being, than laying on a bed on, you know, in a home, you know, on concrete versus directly over water because relaxing. Yeah, it was a lot different. It seemed like it was more conductive. And her questions were just crisp

and clear. There was no, there wasn't anything that was shrouding them in any way, you know, to, it, uh, it, uh, it just was a whole lot easier for some reason. And I was afraid of, of AFIP again, because I've, I've been in it, uh, a couple of times now. It just happens, uh, it just happened from that first initial time, then, uh, with Bob up, then, then, to her, but I, anyway, I had a pill and she, she was, we didn't record it. We recorded the audio. We didn't have any kind of ability to record it, you know, live, but they're on camera.

And she had this, I had this pill. My doctor had given me amy aderon, I think, is what it's called. And he told me if I ever felt symptoms of AFib, Dr. Strickland did, to take one of these. So I had it with me, and she had it in her hand the whole time, about melted it away. It was okay, though. And she's super nice lady And we've talked several times back then But some of those visions are

Are almost indescribable The things that Then have seen as far as like dreams go Or apocalyptic stuff And I just hope none of that ever happens Do you think that's from them showing that to you? I don't know, I don't know where else could it could have come from Other than that

I don't know if they Put things in your mind mind to maybe push you in one direction or to think of a cure for something or were you were you shown anything on the craft by them according to the hypnotic regressions and not to your conscious memory a room with old things in it like an old i sent you a drawing of that old box tv an old wrought iron iron yeah pull lights that go from from the floor to the ceiling. It was like a room of antiques.

And I was allowed to go in this room and on the back wall, there was a round window and it had a slice taken out of it like it was, just a slice taken out of a round circle. That was a window and I was told I could go look out this window by a small one, by a small gray. You were told in your head? Mm-hmm.

I was still in my head. And I'm kind of laughing about it. I'm playing, what are all these old? things in here for, you know, this old box TV and an old wooden radio, you know, like real old. And, but I was, I wouldn't look out the window. I was too afraid. And then I started noticing things around me because I was allowed to stay for just a few minutes or so. And even the walls and the baseboards were powered. Everything in it was, was like alive. The shoving had lights in it much like, but your contra, like those kind of lights.

Everything had lights in it and was touchable, was energized. Everything. There was nothing that was, you know, stagnant like, like that wall right there. It was all, it all had something. It all had energy. Yeah, it all had energy. Even in the antique room? Not the items themselves, but where they were, yes, all of it.

The shelving, the supports. And then as I left there, as I was led out of there by a little guy, I'm walking in this hallway and it's all alive. And an open area opens up a vast open area that's just huge. And there's just like thousands of them. And like those lights right there, just thousands of them up in these little cubicles as far as you could see. and right and left and up and down. They were just everybody was like ants having a job or something. And I just kept following him.

And then I turned left into a room. And the room was full of steam. And I followed him in there. He vanished in the steam. And I followed in there and I woke up. And I don't know what that was. But, you know, hypnosis again is a strange thing. And dreams are a strange.

And I dreamed some really, some really, crazy dream sometimes. When you think back to the memories or the visions that you got during your regression, do they feel similar to the dreams you had or do they feel more similar to seeing the beings beside your truck? Oh, it feels real. It feels more like the ladder. It feels more like the ladder, yeah. That's a good question.

Never been asked that before. there's sometimes when I can when I go to sleep I can go back into that same part of that dream and continue on if that's a dream in that big room yeah all of it I mean in smell was the smell present in that room as well was it was it was but it wasn't as as pungent it was just there maybe I'd had more time in it or something and gotten more used to got more used to that makes sense that's the I have to straighten these things in my mind you know I I I If not, you just might as go lock me up somewhere, I guess. You know, and you know what I want people understand is that it's,

if you have a loved one at home and you live and partake in this field, you have to be very aware of how it affects them. And I never meant to put anybody through anything that's happened to me, you know or to you know to I'm not an expert in any of this in any way but I never I've never meant to like upset my wife or you know like my wife now she didn't deserve any of this I didn't tell her until 1995 I just I just ate it and lived with it until I didn't have a clearance anymore a cue clearance that's when I lost my job at Y12 facility or actually I was at K-25 at that time when the big layoffs were occurring,

and that's what happened to me. I went out with about 10,000 people, believe it or not. There was that many people in the Oak Ridge area, and all of them. At one time, Oak Ridge had more PhDs there than any other place in the country, and now they have all moved in Los Alamos. And I can't understand how they took Sean Kirkpatrick over to OR&L. I just blows my mind. What I came from, there he is now.

I just, I wish I got, Monday I'll have a chat with him, but that was really bad how Arrow did that whole thing in that first set of interviews they did with people. Well, you testified in four Arrow. Four hours and 19 minutes. Four hours and 19 minutes. And you said what you said to me. Everything. And then probably some too. Yeah.

And of course it's under oath per se. Yeah. Of course. They read you a whole litany of things that you have to agree to before you ever do it. And, of course, there was always to talk about Congress and that kind of thing. Sure. It's like one guy told me, he says, they're not ready to talk about what you saw at that right side of that window or any of your dreams or hypnosis, which I wouldn't talk about that anyway. I can only talk about what in the physical conscious world that I saw smelled an experience.

Still too much. Yeah, they can't do it. They want a light in the sky. Yeah, they just want to light in the sky at a far distance. You know, that's one thing I kind of... But that's not, you know, your fault. No. You know what I mean?

Like that's... You, you, out of all this, are like such a brave person for stepping forward for talking about this, knowing full well, full well, you know, what some people might think. And like, there's no good reason to talk about this stuff. No. For anyone coming out, being reluctant, like, I get it. You know what I mean? And you get it more than anyone. Like, yeah, what's the point of coming out if the very people who are supposed to fight for transparency are the ones denying.

Yes. Denying flat out that there is any correlation between these nuclear bases and the UFOs. Like even that, which is so far from where we are with this story, they're not even willing to go there. Like, you know, it's kind of this. It's aggravating. And it must be aggravating for you. It is. It's the same people that told you if we have questions, we'll call you. Yes.

What do you mean if you have questions? If you have questions. What about me? Like, what about you? Who's answering those freaking questions? Like, this is unbelievable. The best part about all that, they call you and they get you on the phone for an hour, two hours, interview you're on the phone. There's two or three of them, and they tell you there's only one guy, which is BS.

One of the best books that's helped me is out of time by Steve Aspen. And I know you know who he is. And he just wrote a second book, and I can't recall the title right now. I've got it in my bag in there, and I've been reading on it. There is such a correlation with this in time. And his book has helped me to think about this because I think that time was displaced where I was or in that vehicle. However humans can understand that, I honestly felt that there was something to do. with time and how they did what they did the time in which they do it but they understand that

much better than i but he he brought he's brought about a lot of really good ideas and and and findings in in his book out of time which which i um which i which i which i have found a a whole lot of correlations in his book as the way i feel and what i think about The other thing is that when Arrow does these interviews, and I don't think they're going to be doing them like they did before, I think it's gone way above that now. I just don't think they have the credibility any longer to talk to anybody because a lot of us felt pretty jilted by that whole thing, you know?

Not only do they want you to testify if they call you before Congress, they want you to pay your own way up there, pay your own hotel bill, and everything and all associated expenses, is like you just got an extra, you can just go to D.C. You know how expensive D.C. is? You can just go there with three or four extra thousand dollars that you've got laying around to testify before people that are just going to look at you and say, laugh at you

or whatever they're going to do. I don't know. But I sometimes worry that you can say too much because I just want the truth to be told. I don't want any anybody. I don't want any type of guessing. I don't want any type of information concerning myself to be put out there that's not something that I said, did, or adhere to. And I've had several times where things have been said that I didn't say or that I didn't do.

And it just really bothers me that, you know, and the reason I bring this up is because one of the guys one of the guys at Arrow that interviewed me, or it wasn't until it was Congress that interviewed me to go before Congress kind of made fun of me and said, and I have his name and his phone number and everything,

and I just, I kind of said something to him that I hope it resonated with him, but he said, well, just keep doing what you're doing. He says, and we'll let you know when we'd like to hear from you something.

And that's after we spent two and a half hours on the telephone. My time is as valuable, if not more, to me, than it is. Then, you know, than to him, I think, man, where do you think you're coming from by talking like that to people? And that's why a lot of people don't, don't want to do that. Don't want to go before Congress or whatever. I think what you're doing here will resonate on a deeper level with the people listening than watching it on a C-SPAN feed.

I do. I appreciate that. I just want to do the right thing. I want answers, and as everybody else wants answers. And I'm not trying to put down anybody else to obtain those answers. I only know what happened to me and to Michael Johnson, more or less. until he comes forward, and that's all I know to relay. You know, everything else, people are putting out some brilliant publications

and books on the subject matter, so that's increased everybody's knowledge, and we'll continue to do so. And I'm just looking forward to the future and just where this is all going, because if we can just get 10% of the technology that I've seen in my lifetime with these beings and these craft, we wouldn't have polluted skies and polluted grounds and polluted waters and plastic polluting everything. And maybe we could just be a better society.

Perhaps we'd have better answers and it wouldn't be as much violence. It wouldn't be a whole lot of things. People would have purpose, you know, whether it be a job and a new technology because it'll be all-encompassing when it finally does make us with because mankind will shift. in my humble opinion when those kind of energies are discovered

and if the powers that be are not corrupt and self-serving and enlightens the rest of the world with it, think of the potential that we have as a planet and as a civilization to move forward. You know, the things are going to be discovered

in Egypt, I do think they were a class one civilization prior to whatever happened happened 12,500 years ago, whatever calamity took place, I think they were a class one civilization and we're not there yet. Well, by the time this comes out, you'll have already gone to Egypt.

Mm-hmm. Next month. How excited are you? I can't contain myself. Well, it'll jump out of my skin now. Yeah, our friend, Amar, Amar is just such a generous soul. He is the kindest person, I know,

and he's got just the heart. heart of a saint and he's really truly in it for selfless reasons and to help uplift the world into this new sort of era and we need soldiers like him on our side we need more of them there are too few of that that man and he is offered to after hearing your story take you to Egypt to fly you out and that's where his family's from he's got a wild history with Egypt's like i can't wait don't i can't wait to meet. Did you see him skydive over the, over the periods?

Yeah. Yeah. That's Cajonis, man, because you probably got in trouble for that. I'm, I'm kind of sad that I'm not going because I wanted to go and I'd spoken to Amar about going. I spoke to you about going as well.

I'll be on tour at that moment. But, you know, if anything happens and the tour doesn't happen or for whatever reason, I'm there. Man, that would be wonderful. I'm 100% there. I, if not, just to witness your relationship with Egypt because I know that, you know, you speak about it. And it's, you know, it's hard to, it's hard to talk about these things.

It's hard enough to talk about these things. You know, I get your reluctance in not wanting to, you know, go full on into all of these conspiracies or whatever, because you have to keep some reality. Yeah, you have to. Because otherwise your story is just going to get confabious. and get twisted. So you got to stay grounded. You got to stay on course, man.

Just keep your ship on course. Let us do what they will. But I want to see the kid inside you. I want to see that. I want to see you light up when you see Egypt. So hopefully Amar is able to capture that. My God. And, you know, he said he had to have camera equipment.

You had to have like a 90-day pass or some kind of prerequisite or you had to fill out paper before you could even go there to film. Oh, it's extremely strict. I had no idea. There's also the museum. Yeah, yeah. I'm going to Dirk-Kairo Museum. Oh, my gosh. It looks so amazing. I did get to see Tutankham in Denver Colorado. Yeah, I saw the whole display in Denver.

Wow. Years ago. Yeah, and I could have spent 10 days there. I'm telling you, there is something there's something alive there that we have. Whether it's alive, meaning, you know, living today or not, but there is something that, and you've made drawings and had views of that, too, what's underground there. Always knew there was something underground. And I didn't know because I've never been there, but somebody I've been listening to is Jeffrey Drummond. Jeffrey Drummond?

Not fair. He's an investigator there, and I guess he's some type of scientist that he's put together an entire scientist. that he's put together an entire sequence that all three pyramids performed in function to create lightning. And that in turn created lightning storms and energies and kept the Sahara green from what I understand, from what I've listened to. But he's found piping. He's found all kinds of stuff and does a really good job at explaining that stuff. It's incredible.

It's a place with such mystery, and it draws so many people to it. Not only the people of Egypt, but the people around the world are drawn. And there are plenty of megalithic impossible structures around the world, by the way, whether it's Balbeck or all these other places. But something about the pyramid draws people towards them. And there definitely is more than meets the eye. I like the idea. A friend of mine, George St. Pierre, UFC fighter. Yeah, yeah.

He's extremely invested in paleotology, in ancient archaeology, in the ancient astronaut theories. And he went there. And because, you know, he's a pretty big celebrity. Yes. He got this personal tour of the King's Chamber and they, you know, guys with guns and everything. And they blocked off the door for him. Yeah. And they put him in the sarcophagus.

Whatever that is. Yeah. And the guy stood in the corner of the room and just started humming like, oh, like this type of deal. And he goes, I've never felt that. type of vibration and it wasn't loud. It was just your body was thrumming like a tuning fork. Absolutely. And for someone who's left his body, I know what that feels like. Yeah. Like that's the feeling of having it. I want, oh my gosh. I'm going to do it. I'd like to take a tuning fork. I've got a couple of tuning fork. Oh yeah. I'd like to bang on the things.

See what they do. Yeah. Well, if you ever leave your body, come say hi. I will. Come say hi and be like, what do you do? I don't know if I'd come back. You know what to me? Depending on where you go, I guess. I don't know if I'd come back. Do you think there is a relationship between the beings that you saw and Egypt? Yes. You think that that is them? I don't know if it's them exactly, but they know of that technology, in my opinion.

And they know it's true function. Hmm. Or functions, I should say. There's an interesting, also an interesting. There are a few interesting correlations. Obviously, you know, the smell, you know, we didn't really touch on. But like, you know, since you've probably come across a lot of similar cases that have said the same thing with the ammonia sulfur smell. Yes. For instance, I'm reminded, I think, the most famous case of which other than Whitley Streber, because he also had like burnt hair cardboard smell like this putrid sort of scent. But James Fox's documentaries in Virginia. Yeah, yeah. with these beings. What was that like hearing about that? Oh. That was Brazil, right? Yeah, that's Brazil. I just The whole town stunk up. Yeah, and they were seen. I mean, that's the thing about it. Now, how do they, how do they hush that up so quickly? How is that just put under wraps so quickly? How can the government or anybody else

move on that? Because many people saw hundreds of these beings, I mean, Yeah, I saw them. And how's that stopped? How can it be our cell phones collected or cameras collected? They search homes. How did they slow that down? But it brings me back, honestly, to 1961, but everybody saw those three craft above those church steeples at Dequeen Elementary.

And nobody talked about it. Like it was like forgotten about, seem to say we're gone. It was all over. There was nothing else to talk about all day. the rest of the week. My mother didn't even really mention it any further. How does that happen? It's a good question. It's a great question. I'd love to know. How does that happen? I think about it all the time. I think, well, I wouldn't that talk about all day long. Well, where's the newspaper clippings? Because, you know, people always read the newspapers back in the 60s, you know. It wasn't the news like we had today. And what news there was, it was pretty real news. You know, you had Walter Cronkite, all the rest of them, you know. But you would have had to. It's either one of two options. It's either somehow the beings or the technology is responsible for that in within that bubble or whatever that is.

Or there's a psychological factor that just happens when you're faced with something so foreign. Yeah. You know, I'm reminded of James Fox once again out of the blue where he had the Phoenix, the Phoenix lights sort of fly over this town. And there's this story of these ladies having tea. And they're just having tea. and all of a sudden they're looking at this craft, fly over this massive craft. Yeah, that was huge.

Going right over them so slowly, and they all just silently watch it go by. And the second it's out of view, they go right back to drinking tea. And you go, what? What do you mean? How would you not scream, run? And the truth is...

Grab a camera, take off in a car after it, yeah. There's a, I'm reminded of a movie. I forget what the movie is, but there's this one really shocking scene where there's this elderly couple. They're sitting in their backyard. And behind them, the camera's facing that. And behind them, you see a, like, Boeing 747 or something coming towards them.

Very small, but it starts getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And eventually when it's like kind of like maybe that big in the sky, big enough to be like, what's going on? They get up and they both, and you see them both looking at this object getting bigger and bigger as it gets close to them. And they're just staring at it in disbelief thinking, what's going on? Like, what is that thing? and not until it was too late did they go and start moving away and then they got hit. Yeah. It was like they were frozen watching it.

And I said to myself, you know, that's probably how it would really happen. You wouldn't run and scream and wake up your neighbors and be like, we got to go. The plane's going to crash. You would stare at until it hit you right in the face. You really, yeah. Because you're wondering, what the hell am I looking at? Mm-hmm. I don't know what you're looking at is when you realize what you're seeing.

Yeah. And I would put down on a damn t-shirt because that's... That moment. That moment in time for me, as I said, it really wasn't... When I realized what I was looking at, it's when I really just went. Really large what? Craft. Craft.

And what's described the craft? It's realness of sphere. And when you realize, was that realization, oh my God, aliens? Yeah. Was that the realization? Other being. And then, yeah, just beings from elsewhere, just beings. I didn't call them aliens.

I'll just call them. Other people. Yeah, other people, other beings, is what I thought. I should have just stepped out. It's good. It's okay. You're safe now, Mario. We're just looking at a movie.

I mean, that must be such an eye-opening experience of, like, oh, my God, it's all true. Oh, my God, everything is true. It's all true. They're here. You know, it's that approach from where they were and how they got, they never, they weren't touching the ground, man. They were just gliding. They weren't on the ground.

They were just all, there was no heads going up and down as you see, you know, it was no, it was no bobbing and weaving like you'd have in a line formation of soldiers marching. It was just straight on, just straight on, just the, and the tall one, you know, he had, he had, had this thing on his chest that was the same color as this um as that the wand that was in that one's what color was that wand the tip of it was like a like a yellow like a bright orange yellow and the rest of it uh i couldn't see the rose it wasn't it was just that that piece was lit up on the end of it and then then but his chest that thing on his chest was lit up and it was a good size it wasn't just a little thing it was like that size on this on his chest and it was

was the same color as that thing. Was it circular? No, it was shaped like a, like a, I guess like an octagon, like a stop sign. Okay. Similar to that. And maybe not the exact same, but it was twisted in kind of that way. And then the, their heads were down here, and he was this much taller than they were. So he was two feet or so taller than the smaller than the smaller, than the smaller, than

the smaller ones. And they weren't gray, gray. They had like a purplish tint to them in some way. Their head, their head, what I could see is flesh or whatever the outer color of their body is. It wasn't gray. It was a, well, this color is not that far off. And I'm colorblind, so just help me out here. Is it because of, did their skin look like it was thin? Yes. And it like bruised almost? No, just real thin. Like you could almost see the veins through their... Yeah, or see anything through it. And that's why it might have been sort of blue-colored, almost like...

Possibly. Possibly. They were just real different colored. And the tall one was a... He was a gray color, a gray silver color. Like a solid gray. Yeah, and his... The facial structure was a whole lot different, much ponier chin. Longer, yeah.

Yeah, and the eyes were like set a little bit higher, but not traditional. almond-shaped eyes. They were just different. They weren't long this way. They were just an almond shape, but they weren't... They're taller? Like facing upwards? Yeah. They weren't

like that right there. They were just, they were smaller, smaller eyes with not that angular shape on them at the end like this. They were more rounded that way. But still had a little shape to them, but it was just different. But I didn't, I wouldn't worry about him.

I'd worry about that, the little one. It's just like I was told to look at that one. I was told to look at that, look at that, look at that. You were told to? That's what I feel. I don't remember any words. I remember, do not fear, do not fear. But I kept looking at that.

And, you know, I pull up behind a car today in a vehicle, in my vehicle or something, or on my motorcycle. And I just have to be real careful not to look at a light for too long, because that, that memory comes back to me all the time that that image comes back to me daily i noticed yesterday at the restaurant and it happened like there was a there was a jug of uh i was a crumb yeah stained a steel jug it was a crumb it was like polished crone yeah and you you had to get up mid conversation to just turn the jug yeah it was reflecting and it was right inside of my eye and i and i can't sleep with anything like these new lights i can't that has to i put i put tape over it's a trigger yeah

anything like that wow anything and it's just so strange you know the the whole thing who would have ever thought growing up you know from a youngster to a to a man that you'd see something like that in your lifetime and and just have to just deal with it i couldn't think of a better person to hold this because it takes someone strong, Mario. It does take someone really strong to be able to live with this and to talk about it. But you're also someone, like I said, you've got such a sharp recall. You are on a program that tested you regularly for your mental faculties. There is, in my opinion, no better person than to speak about this than you.

I firmly believe that. There are a lot of people out there that are really credible that have their stories. But I think you provide something that no one else has provided so far. And it's the level of conscious detail plus the sort of credible background that comes with it. And for Congress to even ignore that. Well, they won't. I mean, I hope not. But for them to ignore it as long as they have tells me that,

you know, there's some part of that system that's acting out of bad faith. Yeah, I called Tim Burkett's office and got some guy on the phone one day, and I told him, I said, look, I used to work at Y12. I said, at NK25 and been to the lab plenty of times. And I said, though, Brickett had put out something about, you know, if there was something that you needed to tell him concerning this measure, you know, to let him know. And I was, I was going to let him know.

I mean, I know where he lives there. I think Marrival's where he lives, and I lived over in Kingston, or lived in Harriman, actually. We did. And I call her twice, never heard a word back from anybody over there. And that's okay, too. You know, it really, you can't, they have to come to you. You can't, you can't go to them.

It just seems that way. And I'm just going to, I'll just let it ride until they do come in. And, of course, that lieutenant colonel I spoke with at Arrow when he interviewed me, that was a really strange thing. It seemed like a real nice guy. And he's an army. I guess Army Intelligence, and he said something that he goes, well, you know, he said, you're one of the only ones that you were actually on duty responding to an incident

when this happened, to an alarm when this happened. So it's not a story, it's an incident. And I said, you never have thought about that, but you're right. And I said, well, who else has done it? He says, I can't think of any. So that's one thing they have to, they have to separate. I mean, it actually happened on duty. And for people that really want to know about this stuff, I just don't understand.

And one of my best buddies in the world is an F4 pilot. And we were at Moody Air Force Base together. I even shared a house downtown in Valvaasta together for a while. And, you know, pilots are super great people, man. I do anything for a pilot. And he got me in an F4 simulator all the time. And I'd live my life in that simulator every time I could. You could fly, you can fly a jet.

I'm damn sure. Or crash trying. But with no G-suit, you know, you can't get above 10,000 feet because you've got to breathe. And, of course, I could never land the damn thing. So my thought was if I was in something, you know, of course that was an F4. That's not an F-16, F-15, 22, or the rest of them today. I have no idea about them. but I'd sure like to.

But I always figured that if something happened and I could get to it, crank it out, you know, with a ground power unit and it had a fuel in it, at least I could take off and, of course, just punch out to get out of a combat area. That's, you know, because I guess when we left Vietnam, there were a fours on the tarmac and they had to blow them up, you know, and there was a lot of security policemen, the actual Air Force security policemen that died, defending the runway while pilots and civilians got off in air.

aircraft, you know, because when they overran the whole place, you know, but there was some people who lost their lives there. I just thought I'd maybe have a chance if that would happen ever. So you've got to think about that, survival. Plan B, you know, yeah. But I'd like to,

I'd like to also say that people in Congress just need to have a little more open mind and they need to, they really need to talk to people that have up close and personal experiences with this. This is not something that passed by me at 1,500 miles an hour or was off in the far distance in any way. And like I said, I love all my pilots.

I love those guys, man, Navy, Air Force, Marines, I don't care. They're great guys, man. Teeth, you know, teeth with bugs in it and heroin fire, and they're just going full speed ahead, man. I like that. But what happened that night in November, was up close and absolute personal. And no matter whether they ever hear me or not,

I live with that and I know what I saw, I know what I smelled, and I know what I experienced. And there's another guy out there just like me and it's up to them to find him. I told the FBI, I interviewed the FBI here a few months back, about seven or eight hours with them on the phone. I even interviewed my sister down in Florida about our incident we saw in Port Arthur, Texas,

as kids, and my sister has seen two tic tacks where she lives near Dade City, Florida. Yeah, and they even ask her about that. It was good for her. She, that really made her feel good, you know. But I would just honestly like to see them really investigate this. I don't know what military forces or personnel are blocking Congress. The people we elect and pay to find these answers for us.

And the people that are in the military or all the services or the CIA or the NSA or the FBI, they have to be held accountable. Somebody's got to answer these questions. And you know, it's a dead-gum shame. A president only gets four years or a re-election for four more years. But yet, a lot of these senators and a lot of people, they stay in there for a lifetime.

So what kind of power did they develop? How unfair is that to the rest of society? Because they believed they're entitled to what they're doing today. to keep secrets from all of us. And that's entirely wrong. We pay those people. Yeah, I feel like a lot of this stuff is going to come,

it's going to be grassroots. It's going to be from the ground up. And it's going to come from the little guy. And I think that's the way it has to happen. Because, you know, that's all we've got at the end of the day. We can't trust them all. No. And we've got to trust.

We got to, you know, stick together and keep telling these stories. just like you're doing today. I also wanted to, one last thing I wanted to touch on before we go, do not fear. Now, that not only resonates with every experiencer who's had close contact because they also have heard that in one form or another, or sometimes like we are you, you are we, this type of, you know, rhetoric. But also if you look in, and I'm not a religious guy.

I know you mentioned you had a Bible and, you know, I'm okay with religion. Yeah, yeah, sure. But in the Bible, they do mention this. 365 times. Do not fear. Do not fear. The angels, the seraphim. Yes.

These visitations, the first thing they say. Do not fear. Do not fear. Amen. Yep. You already made that connection. Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

Do you think historically what people are referring to in the Bible are these beings? I think it's very close. I totally believe in God. I believe in Jesus. I believe the Bible. And however we perceive that in each of us is the story that will take away from it. So what I can say shouldn't influence anybody else. It's got to be within each individual.

And I'm sure at the end of my lifespan, when I'm gasping my last breath of air, I'm pretty certain I'll be calling on him. Whether a person believes or not, or they're involved in an accident, or die naturally of natural causes, they still call on him. Do you think they're demons? No. No. There are such things I'm not.

Evil forces out there, yeah. But not these things. No, not these things. What would you say to people who dismiss them as demons? What would you tell them as someone who does believe in God and believe in the Bible? What would you say to these people? Because I think they need to hear it too. I think it should be a separation.

In my humble opinion, if you ever think that we are all that ever has been or ever will be and all that vastness is right above our head and continuation of thought forever, and we're all that's out here. You're just fooling yourself because we're made of star material. God put that together, in my opinion, and send it to where it could be used

or places us here in ways in which he wanted us to be. That's all I know to say. And again, you've got to be very careful on how you address that because people are going to make opinions of it. But there's nobody I don't care for. And when people do good things, good things happen. And I just think down deep. I think there's good in everybody.

And they just have to let it out. You know, just have to live that for each other, I believe. But there are those that don't, unfortunately, but that's just my thought, and it's a very deep subject. All right, Mario, are you, do you want to take a break? I have questions from the audience, just a few. Do you feel like you can get through him? Do you want to take a little break here? No, I'm good, man.

I'm all right. All right, we'll go. I hope I've done okay here. You're incredible. Stop, you're amazing. This has been one of the. the most amazing conversations I've ever had in doing this. So, yeah, thank you.

Yeah, I'll be right back. I'm going to turn that camera on and we're going to get to some audience questions. Okay. All right, we got some questions here from the audience. Sure. And they've always got good questions. And if you're a member here, one of the perks, as many of you know, is getting to have the potential or to ask our audience, ask our guest a question.

And I usually choose three. And we're going to see maybe we'll answer a few of them here. You know, there are times when I walked in rooms and the lights flicker. And then I was at my oral surgeon's office and they were doing the scan, you know, of my mouth. And that piece of equipment is really high dollar. And once they scanned it, it wouldn't play it back. Well, when you called me earlier, right before you called it. And I mean three seconds before you call the lights flickered in my office.

Mm-hmm. And I was like, it's probably windy. It's probably like a thunderstorm. I go outside, it's a beautiful day. Okay. Interesting. I'm going to tell you one more thing to you real quick. My son was with me this day about eight months ago.

Got out of my truck. He was visiting. Got out of my Honda Ridge Lines, I drive, pull up in the driveway, got out. And I have over an acre where I leave. live and there's azalea bushes and all this stuff around all around my house you know anyway i was walking toward the garage not a breath of air and the and the blowing or nothing and all of a sudden this freaking azalea bush man just started doing this and he goes dad what that's another thing when you talk about 2017 december 17 2017 that's something that happened you know in my room

I don't know what it was for or what happened, but that's when I woke up standing at the foot of my bed. Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm. We need to talk about that, but all the low-voltage, you know what a low-voltage alarm is, like on your microwave, your stove, your refrigerator, all these items, your AC units have them,

and all these low-voltage alarms at my home where it was going off, and it was 4.11, 4.1.m. and my son burst through my room, through my door in my room, because he's just the room over. And he said, Dad, what's going on? As soon as he said that, I opened my eyes and I'm standing at the foot of my bed looking at the north wall in my house. And I said, what's all those alarm?

He goes, Dad, I don't know. And all the lights are like real low. Like they put down on, I lost a leg of power to my house. So everything was up. I don't know what that voltage is, but everything was reduced, and the lights were just barely on. And what was on, like above the stove

and that kind of small lights were just flickering, like they were just turned way down. And nothing's on any kind of a dimmer control or nothing. And so I went through the house, and after these low-voltage alarms sound on this equipment, on your washer, dryer, and all that stuff for a while, then if I only turn off, I guess,

I don't know, because the power never came back on. But I told him, I don't know what happened, son. I said, I guess I'll call Georgia Power when I wake up. So, and all of a sudden, it was about quarter to eight in the morning. He opened my door and he says, Dad, he goes, Georgia Power is out here. And I said, really? I said, I didn't call him. He goes, hmm.

He goes, well, they're out there in the yard. There's a bunch of them. I said, no kidding. And it's, I live off the road by like 150 feet. So I got dressed real quick and I was off that day. So I walked out there and I said, hey, how are you doing, man? And he was in this, between some pine trees in my yard in about, they were in about 40 feet, trying to find where the break was in that line, you know, I had no idea what he was even looking for.

And he goes, you, Mr. Woods? And I said, yes, sir. He goes, well, I put a tied in a jumper transformer. it's on your back deck by your trash can. I said, what? I said, what happened? He goes, I don't know what happened. He said, but you lit up our board downtown like the 4th of July this morning at 4.11 a.m.

And I said, well, what about the rest of the neighborhood today? I had a power. I said, because all my stuff is like, it's working right now, but it was working because he put that jumper and it wasn't working up until that point. And my wife was asleep. She had no idea. Any of this any of them taking place, you know? December 17, 2017 is when it happened. And so anyway, he got to ask me questions, and I said,

he goes, were you running any kind of equipment or something of high-voltage equipment, a welder or something? And I said, I don't even own a welder, man. I don't want everything else, but no, I don't have anything like that. And he goes, anything on the 220 level? And I said, no, sir. I said, my well is, you know, I have a well. And I said, I have a dryer and all that stuff.

That all pulls 220. And he goes, well, I don't know either. He said, I just know, yours is the only house that's affected. And it messed up and blew my computer up and my doorbell system. Wow. Yeah, a microwave oven had two of them and only one of them went. Something else in my garage. Well, it may have been something, but.

I might explain the split flap not working here behind me. It's not working. This isn't, I got to probably breathe. booted or whatever so we can't get to the question this this whole thing December 17th I call Robert Hastings right away when I found all this out and after my son burst through my room and and I had this hole in the wall with sparks on the end of it like some kind of an opening or something I can't explain it and I don't really know what I saw and I was standing at the edge of my bed like a portal like a portal yeah was it was

it like in like you because you described to me like in the Marvel movies just just like that when Thanos raised the fist and shot back through this dead gum portal looked just like that. I mean, I even thought that when I said that. And I don't have full recollection of seeing that. I just know, you know, visions of funny thing. You know that in magic. But so after I meet the supervisor in my yard, and he's telling him he's put this jumper

transformer, which I have pictures of on my back deck out beside my garage, and I had not even seen it yet. I walked back there with him to look at it and he showed me, he said, I'll come get it as soon as they put a new line down. So a couple of ways, everything was done and taken care of and I did have some things that were toasted and got to get rid of and buy new again. But a couple of weeks later, one of the neighbors, teenagers, my son and he used to play around together when they were kids shooting bows and arrows and BB guns and stuff. And he came by and he said, hey, Mr. Woods, he says, what was all those lights in your backyard the other night? And I said, what? I didn't know what he's talking about.

I said, what are you talking about? And he goes, they look like Hollywood searchlights in your backyard at 4 o'clock in the morning. And I said, you got to be kidding me. I said, you know, I've just got six lights back there on the corners of the house, right? Regular 150 watt spotlights, right? And he goes, I don't know what they were. He said, but they were super huge and bright. He said, that was on my way to work.

And he just drove off. and that was the end of that and I just shook my head thinking what in the heck man is all that is that you know I just I don't know

it just blew my mind and one other thing I want to go back to real quick is right after my sighting an experience in November 5 it wasn't long at all when

close encounters the third giant came out Oh, wow. I think it came out in, um, it came out December, didn't it? Of 77. Of 77. Yep. You know, I'm in, I'm November.

Wow. Of 77. Wow. Oh, I didn't even make that connection. Mm-hmm. So I took my, took my wife to go see it. And there was a lot of things in there that I saw that I was picking up on. And anyway, where Roy Nerey comes upon when they're out to the,

when he's out with that map in his pickup truck and he's got the flashlight in his mouth and all of a sudden the mailbox starts shaking. Of course, that's Hollywood excitement drama. But when that craft came upon him and put that light on him, it seemed like it did something to him. It seemed as if it got his attention and almost, shocked him in a way that through that light, something was imparted, a knowledge or a feeling or something that he had to go after

and it was a pyramidal in shape or that shape of the devil's tower at that time. When that happened to him, when that mailbox started shaking and that light came down on that man, I didn't see the end of that sequence because I jumped up out of that theater in Rapid City on Main Street and I hauled my butt out to the curb where I just had to gather myself and I left my wife sitting there. So, and when she came out there to me, I just said, I feel like they're telling my life story there. That's what I told her.

I said, I feel like they're just telling my life story in that movie. And I can't watch that right now. There's a month after. Mm-hmm. Yes, sir. Him floating in the car with the, with the objects sort of like lifting in the car, right when that light. Same, same thing. So tell me, Stephen Spielberg doesn't have some type of inside information.

is I thoroughly believe he does. Absolutely believe he does. You're going to go see the new one, the disclosure day? I'll buy it. Yeah. Yeah, I'll buy it. I'll go see it with you if we're in the same part of the world. I would love it, man.

I would absolutely love that. That would be fantastic. But I just had to get that in there because that's important. Because I felt that very same way that he looked. And looking upon myself, you know, it's giving me introspect. You know, I even think about that craft over November 5. And November 5, not just the size, but the proximity, or not proximity, the closeness of that, they could have gone to nine other sites all twice to three times as far as November 5 was. How did they know that that launch control facility was even somehow monitored by that missile at that missile site?

How would they know that? How would, how could they know that we would respond to an alarm there? And, I mean, do they just, they sit up there and they can just see all this? Do they see the connections underground? I mean, what's their visual aspect of me flipping those sightlights at them? And from where they're located, in which, by the way, all said and done, when I plotted it on Google Earth, November control, or November 1, November 5, to Newell Lake Reservoir Dam.

It's a Pythagorean triangle. And I actually believe they were over Newell Lake Reservoir Dam when I first saw them. That's where I think that craft was over that. And where they dropped you? Over that dams where I think they were initially, and then I ended up back there. I'm just, that's total speculation. But there's something that doesn't make sense. to where they were when I saw them,

to what occurred at November 5, to where I ended up at the back of New Lake Reservoir Dam with Michael Johnson. So I just wanted to say that. But drawing it on, looking at it on a U.S. map, I mean, that is a really strange angle how that. And it all encompasses about 23.5 miles because it's seven and a half miles to November 5 from November 1,

and then it was nine and a half miles to Newell Lake Reservoir Dam up Highway 79. So I just wanted to, I just wanted to bring that up. Yeah, it's an interesting point of connection. I try to look at all these different aspects of it. Another interesting synchronicity is that November 5 is the same day that Travis Walton got taken. November 5th, really? Yeah, in 1975, so two years prior. So that November 5 is really interesting.

And I do believe November 5 is also in Balazar, went to George Knapp. In November the 5th? Yeah, in 89. Wow. So just other synchronicities there. Yeah. Anyway, I'm just, the whole thing is just unreal, just the whole 48 years of it, literally.

Well, I'm glad that you're here to tell the story. Thank you for having me. Thank you. Well, I would love to get to some of these, but this thing's behaving wonky, isn't related. I mean, your guess is good as mine. I will ask one of the questions here just because, you know, you guys. And Slug, your question here was, what do you want other military witnesses who are still silent to know? They could email me.

Anything they'd like to say would never be divulged or sent out to anybody else ever. If you just need someone to talk to about it, I'll be more than happy to listen to you, or you can email me at M Woods 175 at gmail.com, and I'll be happy to answer you. It may take me a little while to get to it. It usually does after some type of cast. I always put my email out there for people, but I would be happy to help you in any way, fashion or form. And if you don't feel like reaching out, just sit down and take a full collection of yourself.

Take some deep breaths and just know. that you're not alone and that if you do reach out somebody who help somebody will help you and not everybody will talk about you and nobody will ever make you feel bad if if you need to reach out for any reason there there are there are good people in this field that can help you and you may know some other than myself or or even or chris or anybody else just just don't lock yourself up don't take it out on your family and level with your wives. Don't hide that. Don't ever hide it because it comes out in other ways and you have no control inevitably.

It's an emotion that we just don't have, we just can't keep in check yet. So serve yourself well. Just know people care. And if you want to reach out, reach out. I appreciate that and you're about to have a full-time job answering emails, I suspect, after this podcast. Mario was, I want to thank you so much for, you know, your candor just opening up. Being so open is really, really much needed and it takes a lot of bravery, a lot of courage, a lot of, I mean, a lot of the X factor that you seem to have. So I'm very, very thankful that you came forward with this.

and I wish you nothing but the best in Egypt, and I can't wait to hear about your adventures. Man. And if there's anything at all that you need from me, you just let me know. You know I will, and I really appreciate that, Chris. You're awesome. Awesome.