AREA52 - DEBRIEFED With Chris Ramsay - Mass Alien Sighting in Africa- Randall Nickerson - DEBRIEFED ep. 23

Episode Date: January 24, 2025

Today I am joined by filmmaker and experiencer Randall Nickerson as we discuss the events that took place at the Ariel School in Zimbabwe in September of 1994 where more than 60 students witness a mass sighting of a disk shaped UFO and multiple Extra Terrestrial Beings. Patreon Exclusive Content: https://www.patreon.com/Area52investigations AREA 52 Shop: https://www.1st.shop/collections/area-52 Join The Area52 Discord: https://discord.gg/C7ZB5M3qjv Follow me on IG: https://www.instagram.com/area52investigations/ Call us Toll Free: 8-333-AREA52 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/26PjFc2gsF0jE9CiMvNBVt Itunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/debriefed-with-chris-ramsay/id1724258920 Join this channel to get access to perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvQ_EDuk8w67a2UkCS1ptbA/join LINKS: Watch the Documentary here: https://arielphenomenon.com/ Dan Aykroyd Commercial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulKJUEeMmcc&t=393s SLS 64 Space Walk UFO Sighting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q69KI-vhWJc&t=93s Oregon Pilot UFO Sighting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UppitJ6E9tM School Sightings Book: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/52898618-schoolyard-ufo-encounters?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=zX3sbA21N5&rank=8

Hello, I'm in... I had a friend who was working with me at my counseling center. Many years, he revealed to me that he was, in fact, an alien, which sounded superficial, and he could have been a good liar until he was able to demonstrate that he was more than just a human. And he was friends with me for many years, and I never knew it, until he was able to demonstrate this to me. They have a unique way of showing themselves.

And I'm just wondering if anybody else has. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to a very special episode of debriefed. My name is Chris Ramsey. And today I'm here to introduce to you a conversation that I had recently with Randall Nickerson. I just wanted to come here to sort of preface the interview. For those of you unfamiliar with Randall's story, him and his sister Glinda have been abducted multiple times. They were featured in the 90s on shows like Oprah and Good Morning America. One of Dr. Max patients, Randy here says his abduction occurred while he was awake.

They had put me out for a little over an hour, and when I came to, and, yeah, I have a hard time with this. Why? Because I don't want to believe it, and I really don't. Why? I mean, it's totally made me question what life's about, and, uh, I mean, it's totally made me question what life's about, and, uh, It stirred my life up a lot. It was a very popular case of abduction, which pretty much upended their lives, especially Randall's. To this day, Randall has a pretty hard time talking about it and has since basically turned his entire life into reporting on and investigating the UFO and NHI phenomenon.

Now, this was a last minute podcast. Nothing was planned. He just happened to be in town. And out of respect for Randall, he didn't want to talk about his own personal. abduction story and I didn't want to press him on that either. But Randall's story isn't simply defined by his abduction. See, Randall is also an amazing filmmaker and documentarian and recently he put out the documentary, the Ariel phenomenon. From all over Zimbabwe, we were phoning the BBC to say, we've seen something weird. There were three of us at sort, myself, the co-pilot and the pilot in another aircraft.

No wings, not nothing. Shiny or something. What in Ariel School 19th, September 94. Did you tell me what you saw on Friday? The silver thing in amongst this clump of trees. We saw this black figure running. His face was like this and his eyes were down here. I just thought it was some kind of failure for the different place. And you looked at those children, they were absolutely credible.

And whereabouts was it? There was a big group of kids. There was a big group of kids pointing and making a noise and shouting and screaming. The panic spread. Am I safe or am I not safe? He's a Harvard psychiatrist. Meet Dr. John Mack, a believer in aliens from outer space. We came away convinced an extraordinary event occurred here. I think they want people to know that we're actually making harm on this world.

Would you like to see him again? Yes. And if you saw him again, what would you do? I'll ask him some questions. What would you like to ask him? I'll ask him what is he doing on Earth and what does he want with us. Basically picking up John Mack's work of where he left off and continuing his research into the mass sighting that took place in Rua Zimbabwe. Over 60 children reported seeing this craft into beings exiting this craft.

They subsequently drew images and even wrote down exactly what they remember happening. And I also just want to say that at times Randall during this podcast will seem a little bit reluctant to talk about certain things. And that definitely stems from his own personal experiences. So this is just to give you a little bit of context on who he is. He recently also appeared on the Danny Jones podcast. And I highly recommend you check that out if you want to know a little bit more about his personal history. Stick around after the podcast if you like. We recorded a little extra podcast for the interns only, and you can do that by going to Patreon

or clicking join on the memberships. And yeah, thanks for watching. First of all, thank you so much for doing this, Randall. It was a pleasure. I got, you know, we got to know each other in the last couple of days, spent New Year's together, just a joy to meet you and to get to know you as a person, you know, in a few little time that we had. It was just really pleasant.

So really made my New Year's meeting you. So thank you for that. For those of you who don't know Randall's work, we're going to be talking about a lot about something that's extremely fascinating. One of the biggest cases in history in terms of mass sighting, you know, Randall's a really good filmmaker known for his documentary Ariel Phenomenon. And it just highlights one of the most significant sightings in human history that was ever documented. documented initially by like John Mack and then you kind of picked up the torch and continued that and then developed relationships obviously with the people there and this this case you know not only is just awesome in terms of data for people who are interested in

uphology but for you became a really big part of your life like that you this case is really really close to you and so you know for me it's a bit of an honor to even be able to talk about this case with you because I think like you'll be the closest person to that event that I'll possibly ever meet, right? So for me, this is this is really a once-in-lifetime opportunity. So thank you for being here. Yeah. Thank you.

I mean, I really appreciated meeting you and love the magic, bro. Yeah, thank you. I mean, geez. It was really, I've enjoyed our time together a lot like I feel. Yeah. I like you genuinely like you as a person. Thank you. I appreciate that. You know, and that's nice. Yeah.

It's very disarming in a sense, you know, like, hey, I can be myself with you. You know. Yeah. I appreciate you. So I do appreciate you as well. And I didn't expect to do an interview or anything. Yeah. I'm like, hey, I like this guy. Yeah. I know. This is last minute. Very.

This is, yeah. But the magic thing is cool because you actually, you know, people might not know this about you probably don't know us about you, but you, like, dabbled a little bit in some sleight of hand. And, you know, we kind of connected on that the first,

first I met you. I was like, I do magic. And you're like, oh. And like, you're like, I did a little bit of that too.

So I noticed when I was performing to like people, I see how you were looking at something and how you're reacting to something is very similar to how I would react to something. So you already had like a mind for it and understood that there was something behind the trick. Mm-hmm. So that's cool. I'm still trying to figure out how that got on my... I could get if it was one mark, but that's a crop.

Uh-huh, yeah. I'm like, damn. Yeah. That was really, really cool. I'm glad you liked that. It's a cool gift. You know, I reminisced on it on the drive home and how it's such a cool gift because you even said that.

You told me, you know, to be able to impart sort of wonder onto people. it's just like a really nice gift to have. And it just reminded me so much of that and like thinking about that because, you know, I forget that sometimes. I take it for granted that it's just a trick, you know, but I set out learning it to give that gift of wonder. And so thank you for reminding me of that. That was, it really made me think.

I was like, it is, I am lucky to have this sort of, I don't want to call it a gift, but, you know, I've practiced it a lot. But to have that, to be able to share that. People don't break the ice with people, I don't know. You know, it helps. Yeah. I mean, I don't even know where we would even start with this. For people who aren't familiar, this was 1994.

Yes, September 16th, 1994. And it was in, it was a town, right, town of Rua? Actually, it's on the border of Rua in a Guramandi, actually. Okay. But Rua is right, it's right on the border. at a primary school, basically K through seven. How far removed from, like, the population is this school? It's a little bit off the beaten path, isn't it?

It is. Yeah. It is. You know, you get out there, there, it's villages, you know, and densely populated. Rura is very densely populated village. But it's, you know, the farmers actually started at 91 because they were sending their kids to Harari, which is the capital. And is it the capital? I think it is.

I'm unfamiliar. Sorry. Yeah, no. I'd like to double check my work. Harari, Zimbabwe, yeah. So, yeah, the farmers were, you know, wanted to set up a school. and there was a, you know, house, and then they built the school over years.

And then they, you know, brought to the farmers' kids, missionary kids, kids from all over. Yeah. And the villages as well. Had it just an amazing. It's a beautiful, it's like a college campus. It's huge. Really?

Real estate-wise. And it's a beautiful school, beautiful people. You know, it's not wealthy, you know what I mean? In a way, it's just not that way, and people don't do it for that reason. A lot of heart there. And the people I met, I mean, all of them, the kids involved in the story. Like when I started way in 2007, and slowly got to know these people. And teachers and parents and everybody involved in this case.

Yeah, you get to know them and love them as people, you know. I just have to mention because one of our, one of the kids had passed away, Emily. Just it affected a lot of people. She was 38 years old and just loved her as a creative person. and heart. You know, she's in the film, and I spends a lot of time with her. And just saw her do some really just giving from her heart to people that had less, you know,

where we're struggling, like little moments I would see that. And I don't even know what to say. I think everybody that knew her is, still in shock that she's no longer with us. And I have to say the other kids, too, like, I call them kids, but they're, you know, they were kids. Yeah. But they're just, I feel like they, it's not been easy for them, you know, to come forward

or have me tell their story, you know. and then all these other people come in with different intentions. Yeah. Because, you know, when I was working on it, I was, I knew it was a great story. And then when other people found out, they kind of jumped in like, oh, yeah, we want this, you know. And they didn't have the same caring. They see money signs. Money signs in fame.

Yeah. You know, that was never my purpose for. Clearly, yeah. No. I mean, even with, you, you know, you look at the final product, you can tell, you know, there's, there's, there's. there's heart there. There's heart in your interactions. And, you know, I mean, it's, there's one thing, there's one thing that I'll say, first of all, sorry for your loss. I'm sorry for, for that. And I know that, you know that, you know that, you know that, you know that, you know that, I heard that you guys were very close and Luigi as well, um, who's here off camera, by the way, who's also their family. I mean, yeah, they're the, that, that, they're an amazing family. Yeah. Wonderful people. I went to the funeral and oh, oh, my God. Like, they are, um, um, um, Just tragic. I mean, there were tears in that.

I don't think I've been to a funeral that I've heard so many people crying. Yeah. She had a lot of effect on people. Anyway, but the family just put out love and respect to the family. Yeah. Yeah, that, you know, as someone who is coming into this space with, you know, intentions to shine a light on some of this, partially for my own curiosity, you know, admittedly, but also to give people voice and make this a little bit normalized and stuff.

You know, I have good intentions going into this, but there is a sticky sort of situation that you can put yourself in when speaking to experiencers, because the last thing that I want to do is feel like I'm exploiting anyone, right? And that's, I think, I think just, like, extremely important to be aware of because, you know, when dealing with people, you're not only dealing with people who are, who've seen something amazing, you're dealing with people who are, you know, traumatized. And, you know, the last thing you want to do is, you know, be pushy or be like, but, you know, from your angle, coming into this, like, how aware were you.

of that, like a probably, I mean, hyperware is my guess, but like, did you, like, how did you navigate that? You know, just like being very honest with them, like, I'm not here to, I'm here to really hear your story. Like, I'm not here to exploit it or to the kind of understanding that what it was was impactful. I mean, anybody you talk to that's had this happen. they are going to remember until the day they die. They will remember that time.

And that's the kind of experiences. And it affects your whole development, depending on how old you or whatever it happens. So just trust, you know, trying to say, you know, I really want to hear what Pucci went through. It's been hard, I think, throughout history because people really don't understand what people go through. Yeah.

The ontological shock of having, like, that's not supposed to exist or be real, and all of a sudden you can't go back there anymore because you've seen it. And it changes a lot for those people. They go through so much that people don't realize it's sort of callously, misunderstood. And in that process, what it happens is those people, you know, over time, say, I don't want to talk about it anymore. If you don't understand, I'm not going to talk about it anymore.

So they get quiet over time. The more they are public, the more you pay consequences for that. Yeah. And it's unfortunate because it's really important that. what witnesses have to say. Yeah, and I mean, that's, it's a great point. And on top of that, you have also people trying to actively shut you up, you know, which is like the counter, you know, energy to that.

You got people who are like, no, you need to share this. And you got people being like, if you share that, something bad's going to happen to you. And so, you know, that's such a murky territory to, to navigate as a filmmaker, as a documentarian, but also it's just a person trying to talk to somebody with an experience. I mean, it's just such a touchy area. It is. It's very personal. And with children even more so, I would think, right? Yeah. How were the, how were the parents with all of this when you were, you know, were they involved at any capacity? Did you see any pushback? Did you? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Very much. There was, well, it's mainly around religion right and then it depended on the fascinating thing about the school was the

diversity in that school religious wise and uh um people from all different colors and backgrounds from different countries it was just it was a really interesting mix of people you just don't really see in a lot of schools um yeah it was very international I would say. And you had, so you had the indigenous people, and you had missionaries, and you had government, their children, you know, just all over the place.

English, you know, Australia, you just had every. So anyway, the piece is, that was interesting, you know, and then how each parent, the parents, or how they interpreted it, it from what they were brought up with. Yeah. So, yeah, you had a few parents that were very pushing back big time. But you had a lot of parents that were that my child, you know, were very supportive of

their children. Like this is not, my child would not do this, right? Like, they knew their children well. And they stood up for their children. Wow. Like, that was. Like, it's not even in the movie. Mm-hmm.

So much footage in interviews that I did that just didn't, it would have been a three-hour movie. Yeah. I mean, time was our biggest problem. I wouldn't mind. I know. We've been, that's the next thing is, you know, we wanted to do the director's cut. It's still. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. That's difficult, though, as someone who, you know, I do a lot of editing myself. Like when you got so much, you know, quote unquote gold, you know, in a project, like chopping that up, it's got to be tough. And they call it killing your babies. Killing your babies. Yeah, that's what I say too. Yeah. It's a tough job.

Is there is there any scene in there that you kind of regretted not leaving in? Is there anything that you were like, maybe that should have been in? Not, I mean, for that time. No. We had to get it to, you know, it was an hour in 41. Yeah. Was that the mandate? Basically an hour and a half.

Okay. Right. 90 minutes. And so we're in a, yeah. So we were a little over that, but that's the best we could do without. And it was we had a three hour solid. Yeah. Wow.

And so given the time constraints, I think it was well done. Chris Seward was amazing. editor and story editor. But it was a challenge, whittling it down. Once we had the three hour, we're like, damn,

this is really, really good. But, you know, people have to use the bathroom around that time period, an hour and a half. So that's kind of why it's all.

I see. Based around that and the tensions, man. But, yeah, the, there's many scenes. I was just showing

Luigi and a few other people, the scene with Emily, making the decision to go to Africa, which we didn't include in it. But it's just, I love that scene. Whoa. Yeah. We shot at that NORAD up in the St. Adolph, I think. Yeah.

Yeah. The old NORAD base. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. So, yeah, there's so many of the scenes. And, you know, we had a good half hour just on the spiritual.

the native indigenous chiefs and medicine men who we went to see. Yeah. And Emily went to see several of them with us. And that was a very large piece that was really well cut together, but it was a half hour. Right. Just that. Because that's fascinating. This is not new to them.

It's not new to them at all. They weren't surprised by any of it. Wow. They've seen them themselves. Did you find? That was amazing because I'm shooting about Ariel. Yeah. And then the chief starts talking about like little details. And I'm like, oh my God, he has seen them himself.

Like, and I'm, and I want to stop everything and go, well, I want to, I need to take this guy and toss him, you know. And I didn't get the chance to do that except with a few people, a few of the. medicine men chief. Whoa. The village, you know, doctors, basically. That's exciting. They were so familiar with it.

It was just, how was Emily with that, like, the fact that, like, was that comforting to her? Was that, yeah. Yeah. Very much. It must have been, like,

so validating being like, oh, finally someone who gets it, like. Yeah. So in the movie, we, in the movie, we show fits and pieces of that, but it was much more in depth. Yep. Then they, yeah.

I mean, it was fascinating for me. Yeah. To be over in Africa. Three trips I went, by the way. Just three times. I spent a year and three months in Africa. I was living there. What was your favorite thing about Africa aside from, I know the people is amazing and the scenery is amazing.

But what's something that just like you took home with you? The wildlife. The wildlife. When I wasn't doing interviews, I was out. drive it self-driving Savari. Really? Oh,

yeah. What are you seeing? Like, Oh, God, everything. They got everything out there. Everything.

Like the lines and stuff and all that. Oh, yeah. Really? I was out there for days and days and days along. Between interviews, I'd be like, okay,

I found this child or a person, one of the witnesses or their parents or somebody else that witness it in the area. And I'm like, okay, I've got three days and I would go into a park, you know? Wow. When I first got there, I went on a proper safari, and I learned as much as I could. And then I started, you know, meeting more people that basically were telling me this is what you don't do.

Yeah, and do. And then I got up enough courage to start going out on my own. And then the big thing was camping with a Bushman. camping in a pup tent out there out there oh my god that is uh are you here in all sorts of stuff at night oh my god like we were at the campfire you know you're you set your truck up the rangerover and then the your tent and the fire in a triangle because you need to you know defenses yeah and so you'd see the reflection of the the eyes of the hyena They come up to the, about 50 feet away from the site, and they just lay down and just watch for opportunity.

And then you hear the lions roaring, and you can hear them for miles and miles away. They're so loud. They rattle your chest. So once that fire goes out, you better be in that tent or the vehicle. So we were, and it's a serious, I have not had anything more serious than that charge. I bet. That sounds incredible. There's certain rules.

You know, you don't allow them to see you. They can smell you, but you can't leave anything open window-wise. You can't be like on your phone with the light shining your face at night type deal. You can't let them see you. Because if they see you and smell you, they're coming. Oh. It's just, yeah, it's a whole different thing. And if you're near any body of water, you get to worry about the crocs because they come out on land at night.

Wow. They'll go like a mile away from the water at night. Really? Wow. Yeah. That's terrifying. And you got to wear by hippos, rhinos, elephants. Everything. Everything will kill you.

Everything. It has the potential to do that. But, you know, it's so funny, you'd be camping. Sorry, I'm going on about this. No, it was, it was just magical. Yeah. And there was something weird about being there was like, I kind of know this. Hmm.

You know? You felt familiar. It oddly felt like I, somehow. At some point, I was familiar with that feeling. Yeah. And it felt like home and a weird, I've never felt that. It was like a past life type thing, maybe. Maybe.

Yeah. Yeah, I just, I'd never felt that anywhere like that. But yeah, that's, uh, uh. What was the, what was the night sky like there? I mean, I'm guessing because of the lack of light pollution, you must have had like some amazing night, like sky watching. Yeah, very much. You ever see anything out there?

That's all I'd be thinking about. I'd be like seeing that many stars, checking out satellites and whatnot. Well, yeah. The thing about everything's backwards because you're upside down on the ball. Oh, weird. So the sunrise is in a different direction. You see, you know, Orion upside down. Right.

You know, the moon rises, goes the other way. It's when you really pay attention, you're like, wow, this is, I'm on the bottom side of a ball. Yeah. And so your perspective is completely, that fascinated me. Seeing a new sky. Yeah. Yeah. And the skies are just so dark.

Like, you can see everything. Wow. Yeah, I try to spend as much. They spend a lot of time outside. Mm-hmm. I probably would, too. Yeah. Oh, it's beautiful. The only thing you do have to worry about is the everything killing you.

500 pound cats. Jeez. Being food is a problem. Being just a food with technology on you. That's all you are. Yeah. All right. So getting back to this siting, this, okay.

I'm going to encourage everybody to just go watch the documentary. I'm, you know, given a play by play. It's just much better to just go watch the documentary, go get familiar with it. You know, see for yourself the truth that is spoken by these witnesses. That is for me, I think, one of the most compelling pieces of evidence. And in today's day and age, even more compelling than possibly a 4K video, because that can be faked. You know, you can film something on 4K and I can ask chat GPT to, like, cook something up pretty much. You know, we're almost there.

But you can't fake, you can't fake these interactions. And, you know, as someone who studied human psychology, you know, for magic. And you can, you can just tell. I don't even need to be an expert. But you can tell when you look at someone, especially children, that, you know, and then I will say as well that, like, sure, kids will embellish. Kids will, you know, and lay it on thick sometimes, too. but the core of what they're saying happened.

This happened to them. What piece of information for you personally were you like, oh shit, this is real? Yeah, that's interesting. So I, you know, I had just John Mack's material in the beginning, which was very moving, for sure. A lot of things I didn't understand what they were referencing because it was from a different culture. So I kind of like, well, I think once I found the school was still there, and then I got on a plane very quickly. Like, I have got to go there. And that kind of opened up.

You know, I wasn't convinced either way. I mean, I knew these people were telling the truth. It's pretty obvious that they're, you can tell. Yeah. I mean, people know when people are truthful. Yeah. it's in the eyes and behavior. It's hard to fake that.

I don't know if it's even possible. I've never seen that, really. I got a good BS detector. And, yeah, that's what I first saw. And then I was discovering more, well, then I first met the teachers that were there when I went there. The first time. And, you know, I was like, well, what do you think have it?

It definitely happened. I'm like, wow. that's interesting. Like there were still three teachers that were still there that were there at the time. And I didn't know what to expect. I was just showing up and doing like pre-investigation, like, you know. And there were many steps like of the teachers was that was the first thing. Then I started talking to the first witnesses, found all of.

those people. And there was a progression. I kept hearing the same, and the eyes and the truthfulness of it, the directness of it, that it was kind of a step process in a way. The more I found out and the more people I met that had seen it, and it wasn't just the kids at school, it wasn't just some of the teachers. It was a lot of people from outside that area. which also wasn't in the film really it in the some of the archival was there but there were others um just local interactions yeah within a rain within a radius of that location yeah because there was a lot of sightings in that area that were reported that's right prior to that yeah yeah yeah and one of them was a you know they uh was a in in you know you had to i had to look at what was going on in space

because I had to look I had to look at everything like okay this okay I mean what was going on in space right what satellite rocket bodies were coming in which you know we we had sent up 130 rockets that year so wow that means every three days you know some something's falling through and a lot of stuff falls in Africa right they kind of a lot of our launches end up in the ocean and they have actually a whole museum over there of rocket bodies and things that have fallen out of the sky that we have launched or other countries have launched because they land in the desert in Africa. Big pieces.

And so I looked into all that and that was fascinating. And the space shuttle was up that day. So this is a huge piece. So it was STS-64, was up in orbit that day, the very same day. Ariel happened, and they were doing the first untethered spacewalk of a human being from the shuttle. And it literally started two or three hours after the incident of Ariel. It was monumental. It was also one of the longest spacewalks at the time also.

The Russians had been up a few, like a week earlier and did their long spacewalk. And then when we went up and then we were testing this. untethered. It was jetpack. Yeah. The first time we ever tested it in space. So you could fly around without being tethered to the craft. So it was a major, it's in the museum in Huntsville, Alabama. It's an incredible coincidence. Yeah. I find it highly interesting because if anything, it was a human first. It was a milestone. A milestone. They're in a museum for that reason. They're in Huntsville, both of those safer packs. They were called safer. So that became a study for me.

A lot of world events, what was going on at the time, what was on movies, what was on TV. You know, I had to, nobody knows all that. You know, I had to really dig deep to see. Find the prosaic explanation. Yeah. Yeah. I was good with that. Yeah.

If that was where it led, I was okay with that. one of the things that really kind of moved me a lot was when I started to find the grade one, grade two people that were young at the time, like the ones they didn't interview. Because the headmaster made a decision, which I kind of think was properly, was proper at the time. because the kids, the younger kids were really, you know, much more upset too, right? So they decided to keep the grade ones and twos and younger out of it. They didn't interview them. They didn't have them draw pictures or anything.

And then I started to find those kids. And they're telling me what they saw in their perspective and their memories. that was really fascinating because they never got a chance to, to, and I had to find out, were they actually there? Yes, okay. I got their name. I know they were there. Got the school pictures.

That's her. That's him. And that was, that was, that kind of tipped it for me. I'm not that I didn't believe everybody else. That was the point, though. That was like when you got there, you were like, this is, this happened. This is real. Yeah.

I just remember that those interviews because they never got a chance to speak about it. And they had never forgotten it. And it was also the other witnesses too, but it was just certain excitement that they had talking about it. That felt a little bit different. Were they just eager to share it or were they also reluctant? No, there was a lot of reluctance I had to deal with. There were kids that were, yeah, they had a, they would not share. I mean, there's no question that it left a very big impression on them and affected their lives.

And these kids had also seen not just the craft, but creatures, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, I saw a lot of people struggling with religion. Like, what did this mean? Was it the devil? Was it, you know, I saw a lot of that struggle.

Yeah. So there were quite a few reluctant people. I found more of the reluctance from the males, you know, than the females, to me, Frank. It's always like that for some reason. Men are like, like, were guarded, we're, like, you know, more sure of reality, it seems like, and for some reason. You know, I think naturally women are just a little bit more open to, you know, esoteric sort of explanations of things or spirituality in that case or just open to other options. Maybe that softens the blow for them, ontologically speaking, like they don't go through the same brick wall that we do. I agree.

I think that is a thing where it's males just have a very much harder. not being in control. And, you know, there's all a stigma or whatever that are put on men, men more than women. I mean, women have their own thing too. Yeah. Yeah, I definitely noticed that quite a bit of the witnesses. But yeah, there was definitely moments where I was just like, oh, yeah, this definitely happened. Definitely.

There was, you know, obviously, just like any major sighting, there's always a sort of government presence that tends to impose itself to try and control the situation. What was it like with that? Did you, did you, like, I mean, I know there was, there was that, but how, how much did that deter you or inspire you to keep going? from the Zimbabwean government? Yeah. Well, I had to be really careful with that. It's a dictatorship. And, you know, at the time it happened, you know, they, Tim Leach from the BBC,

finally found him. And Gunter, who's the last surviving investigator who was on the scene, they all did excellent work at the time. They, you know, they really did. But he had gone to the military to see, did you guys have this on radar, which they said their radar was down. And then people would report that I think they were flying F4 Phantoms at the time, older, you know, hand-me-downs. But people were seeing them flying really low altitude like they were looking for something through that whole area. A lot of witnesses to that.

But I, you know, when I was in the country, the first time, that was 2008. I wasn't supposed to be in the country. That's when the New York Times reporter got arrested. When I flew out of, oh, yeah, it was political violence. People were being killed and tortured. That was the, I was also, was that not, I'm thinking, 2008, 2007, 2008. Was that not? Egypt soon and after.

Yeah. Was Iraq as well during that time? was that before that? I mean, there was a lot of global. That was 2009. Yeah, there was, but there's global tensions. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Up and around that time. Yeah. Yeah. So I wasn't supposed to be there. There's a State Department warnings and everything. And I stayed in a shack. No, no, no water, no heat. I mean, cold water. and thanks to Nikki Carter, who was wonderful, helped me through. She took the risk I took, no doubt about it.

I wish she could come on some of these shows. She was originally one of the reporters who also interviewed these kids. So going back to the footage, like I only had John Max's footage in the beginning, and then I started to find other interviews done by Nikki Carter for SABC. you know, the Dutch did it. There's another guy from Germany, went over there and recorded 42 of the kids, interviewed 42. So I ended up with like six or seven different archival sources. Like, oh, my God, that's brilliant.

And so that was one part of like the whole thing was just collecting what happened at the time. What did people say? What did each individual child? What does say? What did the teachers say? What did the parents say? So I had a ton of that. And then it was real time, 20 years later at that time, of a lot of those same people.

And a lot of new people I had no idea about that it also witnessed us. Yeah, that, oh, man. It's intense. It's an intense thing to happen to so many people. You know, you touched on a little bit that this was. like an international kind of there was a lot of diversity yeah in this school that obviously has to have something to do with the reason right boy i you know i don't know what the reason yeah i still do not know if you had to take a stab in the dark well i've been engine failure or it would it be

it would be deliberate wouldn't it i think it was deliberate yeah but you know my my biggest thing to me is what was going on up in space at the time. You know, I've been told, and I did find this, I did confirm this, somebody from who's out publicly a lot now, a military man, he said, you know, there's a lot of uranium mines right around that area. And I didn't really, I wasn't out to search for the reason. But I did check that out, and that is correct. You know, he's like, they're really interested in nuclear material.

And it doesn't really matter to me. But it's interesting that that was told to me by that person. But I still don't know. I wasn't out to say I have the answers to this, right? I don't. And a lot of the witnesses don't, but they do, you know, they saw what they saw and they reported it. It was very consistent.

And, you know, this is just one incident out of, gosh, it only knows how many around the world. I've met so many other people, you know, that have seen this from every single country on this planet. Same kind of thing, whether there's two of them or, you know, and also one of the things I've found really interesting with the research was the number of schools, primary schools, essentially, mostly schools of that age range that had had similar incidents all over the all over the world and i started collecting all these newspaper clippings people would send them to me westall um chili uh my gosh there's so many really yeah probably brazil i'm guessing as well or so oh my gosh um then i keep hearing more about it somebody did write a press and dennett

i believe for the book on school sightings we were yeah he was um kind of doing that at the same time. So that's an interesting aspect is the children and why, yeah, that's a whole other. Yeah, I mean, there's also, you know, the idea that if you're going to ask someone a question, right, and you want them to be truthful, two types of people you can count on is a child or a drunk, right? This is, you know, you don't count on a politician to tell you. the truth. Yeah. You know, or or or anyone else with an agenda. Unfortunately. Yeah. Yeah. You got to people who have, you know, no sort of social inhibition. It would be nice to have leaders that

actually told us the truth. Yeah. It really would be nice. Yeah, absolutely. But, you know, unfortunately, I don't think that's just part of our system. It's not. Yeah. You know, so we got to, we, we, we got to depend on people like yourself to, uh, to report on it, you know, for, for, uh, for those of us seeking it. Have you felt since you've been there and since you've looked into that particular case, have you seen a difference in how the world looks at the phenomenon? Oh yeah, very, very much. And has that changed how you sort of investigate the phenomenon yourself now? Yeah. We were in the edit room working on the final in 2017. We're all sitting there.

And there's a TV up on the, you know, there's a whole deck of screens up top. And the TV's in the center on the news. And we're all sitting there editing the film, me and two editors, Chris and Rick. And all of a sudden, the New York Times thing is on the news. And we're sitting there like, holy shit. Like, it was a moment.

We took pictures because we're. all like, this is big. And we're working on a movie at the same time about this very subject. And it was interesting to see that transition and how it's continued to now. I mean, I go out, if I go out to dinner or something and I run into friends, we're talking about it. Like, they would never, ever, you know, some of the guys that hang out are mechanics and hardcore. I love them. race car driver, whatever. People that do hardcore physical stuff, they're not the one,

they don't tend to believe in anything they can't hold in their hand. And now we're having conversations like that. I never thought would happen, to be honest. Wow. Yeah. So it has changed a lot. And then watching that change through the making of the film.

Yeah. Because when I started, nobody was really like. No. But you're also, I think, an important part of that change itself. Like, I mean, you're also to thank for that. Like, there are, you've taken some steps in your life and in your career to, you know, obviously be public about a lot of things.

And, you know, that on whatever capacity moves the needle. Mm-hmm. Right. A lot of people have. Yeah. There's a lot of, you know, people have been speaking up about this for, since the 1950s. Yeah. If you look at the documentaries from the 1950s and 60s,

it's the same thing. They've got footage of it, you know, like, it's the same. It's when I was, Dan Aykroyd had helped me, like he did a trailer for me and spoke about it. It's there, and I know viewers that are watching this, they will see it and they will feel. kind of vindicated and they'll go you know boy those kids are telling the truth and I was

telling the truth when I had my experience and it will it's going to provide a lot of reinforcement he kept saying he's like this there's nothing new here we're just rehashing what we already know and he's right I didn't realize it what he was saying at the time until I started going back to all those old documents and I was like oh my god it's the same story the same things that people have reported We are in a different day, I think. We're getting a little more truth. I get a kick out of it.

Like, well, we're trying to remove the stigma, right? Congress and the DoD and Air Force. But at the same time, we're going to give you a little truth and then throw you off a little here. But it's just like, yeah, let's get to it. You had, you know, back in 56, whatever it was, was it major Samson? Sandsons, what was his name? Keough? He came forward and he was like, yeah, this is not our technology. And he was saying a lot of the same things we're saying today about, you know, the drone incursions where it's like, it's not ours. It's not theirs. What does that leave you with? And that's kind of, like you said, we're repeating that. But I think more people are listening now. And I think more people are. And maybe it isn't even such that more people. And maybe it isn't even such that more people.

people are believing it, but more people are publicly believing it. Because I think down to your core, as we're all human, and we all kind of have the same outlook in that we don't want to believe that we're alone. There is that desire to not be alone in this place. And so I think deep down, we all kind of want it to some extent to be real. But back then, you just wouldn't vocal that. Yeah. You know, and so there was there was there was a lot, it was a lot easier to suppress something. I think in an era where people didn't find it socially acceptable to share these ideas and thoughts. True. Whereas now it's a lot harder to keep that in the, uh, in, in, in the pot. You know, it's, it's, it's overflowing. It's brimming. We're, we're trying to get it out there now. And

people are, are more willing to come forward, more celebrities like, look, Dan Aykroyd and, you know, it's important to have these voices. Absolutely. I've only, I've only, interesting this whole, the drone thing. Because, you know, all of a sudden everybody's, you know, is watching the skies and videotaping. You know, a lot of it's airplanes. A lot of it is drones, right? But there's a few. I'm like, well, that is definitely interesting there.

You know, so I don't think we've had that many cameras pointed at the sky all over the world. That's pretty unique. And, you know, I'm not saying anything, just sort of like observing, like, that's interesting. I mean, it could be a way to throw everybody off. Like, oh, it's just drones, people are seeing, right? But this has been going on for. I mean, incursions like this have been going on since the 50s.

Yeah. I mean, the military base thing and the secret sites, that's a big deal. Lake and Heath back in the 50s, 80s, you know. Yeah. Well, Brentwater. Mousstone. Yep. You know, and even, I mean, sightings in Jersey, actually, which is, you know, big sightings.

Interesting thing is, world of worlds. Yeah, that was in New Jersey. That was in New Jersey. 1938, like test bed. Yeah. Like, that was the first thing that hit me was like, well, that's interesting. New Jersey gets it again. Yeah.

How are people going to react? Yeah, this is just a modern Orson Wells thing going on right now? Maybe. The sightings that I'm finding really interesting are out in Arizona. Oregon. Have you heard the ATC air traffic control with like six, seven pilots? Yeah, yeah. The radio, the communication between the pilots.

This thing going coast to coast in seconds and going out to the ocean. Yeah. We're seeing three or four targets. Yeah, they're all altitudes up and down. It's pretty crazy. I just had another one show up about my 1 o'clock, about a thousand feet high, zipping towards us and then back out towards the ocean. It's red in color, moving at extreme speeds.

I don't even know how to describe that matches by that 6-6-1 on the fuck. I'm a little bit of a bunch. Roger. You avoid the UFO out there and I'll be... So I've interviewed witnesses who've seen that exact same behavior. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, this is covering massive distances and doing really crazy stuff.

And you're a pilot yourself. Yeah. And so I don't know if anybody knows that, but like that's interesting because as a pilot, I feel like you're just a little bit more credible on these sightings, you know, just from that standpoint along. Well, you have to be, you know, you see a lot up there. Yeah. And you learn, that's another thing I get a kick out of two. Like people, a lot of people have never really studied the sky and they're out there with cameras.

Yeah, Starlink. Oh, I had a guy come in a couple weeks ago. He's like, dude, look at this, you have it. I'm like, that's Starlink, though. Yeah, I've got a few of those. I mean, there's a lot to see out there and a lot to understand. And then when you see an actual anomaly, it's pretty clear, you know. And then you still have to go through the process of examining it.

And eliminating. You do. And you just have to. But, yeah, it's an air safety issue, you know, to be. able to know what you're looking at, knowing where a plane is going. The reason they have a red and a green light on each side is crossing this way at night. You know if you're seeing that red light, it's going that way. Right.

Yeah, because you're up there. You're not really sure what's moving. If you're moving, if it's moving. That's right. Yeah. I mean, that's super interesting because, you know, that makes like that, you mentioned, And even the Oregon pilot, you know, mentioned, like, when you hear something like that as a pilot, you take that more seriously.

Oh, my God. Yeah. Because you know everything they're saying. It's vetted. It's like. Well, and they know that pilots do not talk like that unless they're seeing something. I mean, and the interesting about the, we're talking about the 13 minute. Yeah.

Yeah. So the controllers, right? A senior, more senior controller comes in. And then there's a bunch of controllers. a picture? You want to, can you, can you send a video? Yeah, exactly right. Yeah, my number.

I love that. Yeah, yeah. But that's exactly what would happen. Um, it's so interesting, too, like the community I'm around of pilots, like, they're very, uh, they're pretty cool people. Um, hmm. Um, pilots see quite a bit, but they just do not talk about. They don't talk about it. It's touch you being a pilot.

You know, we spoke about this a little bit yesterday. when, you know, if a, as someone who has like, what is it, class two or three, you know, you got to watch what you say because you could lose your license because you're, you're, you're essentially, you're a threat to, you know, many lives being, being a pilot, a commercial pilot and it's commercial. Yeah. And so if you say, like, oh, you know, I have a history of dealing with depression, like, there goes your license, you know.

Yeah. So you got to keep your mouth shut about things like that. And you got to suppress it. And that's really tough. puts them in a really bizarre situation when their people were trying to count on for specific information. We just, they just can't talk about it. Yeah, that's very true. You know, it's for class three.

It's like, yeah, I mean, that's general aviation. But the commercial pilots, yeah, they have talked to many of them interviewed, you know, even one of the pilots that saw what he saw the night before arrow at night, flying back. And this thing was, I mean, we were here, and we saw the thing coming from here, and it must have gone down here towards a free state, orange free state, the suit to, and onto the east coast there. And I had a friend of mine who was going to form mate on us in another aircraft. He called us on the radio and said that he could actually see us, and he was coming up and we must keep a lookout for him. And I actually said to him, well, I can see you on the left-hand side of the aircraft, and he confirmed that he was like, on the right hand side of us. And I said to him, well, if you're on our right hand side,

what is it we seeing on the left? And on our left hand side was a ball of light. I don't know what it was. And he sought, my co-pilot sort, and we noticed this thing go from the left-hand wingtip across our track and disappear across the horizon. And it took about three or four seconds. I posted that interview on our website. You know, he showed up without any of his, you know, ID or who he was flying for because of many of that reasons. But he shared it because it wasn't just him. It was his co-pilot and another pilot. Oddly, in Africa, they'll fly in formation because there's just different rules over there.

Right. You'll have two commercial jets flying side by side. That's an odd thing to see if you're looking up. Well, yeah, it's just the rules are a little different. Yeah. There's places where there is no radar coverage at all. Well. Yeah.

There's huge vast areas. There's no radar covers. So you can kind of do what you want. But anyway, it is an issue because it's discussed. It's discussed among them. Like being a pilot yourself, you've heard stories. Oh, yeah. But usually it's followed up with, yeah, don't tell anybody.

Can you, could you share one of the stories without giving away who said it? or would that give it away. Boy, I'd have to think about the, has been a lot. I don't want to put you on a spot. If there's anything that comes to mind, though, but. Yeah, let me think about it. Sure.

Like, the interesting thing is because they know I fly, like, we can speak the same language. Yeah. Like, we have the same kind of understanding. They may have a lot more hours than I do or, you know, like I love these guys that have 35,000 hours. It's like, I've got 1,600. Whoa, yeah.

big difference. Big difference. You know. But yeah. Anyway, that's a whole other topic. But it's important because they don't have a voice, you know? Mm-hmm. And I'm hoping, like, that particular incident that was recorded on ATC, I hope those people get interviewed.

Yeah. Or they're not, I hope they're not reprimanded either. They shouldn't be, you know. Well, they shouldn't be. And because they have so many. You know, it's not, that's the amazing thing about it is, I think there's five or six, maybe even more than that. They're all calling in. People chiming in.

I know. It was exciting. Really? Yeah. Yeah. A friend of mine sent me that and I'm like, well, yeah, that's, I've interviewed a Navy man who witnessed the same thing when he was active duty, him and another engineer on the, P3. Wow.

So the same behavior, like it would just go, it would come up, and then it would just zoom out, like, ridiculous speed. Impossible speeds. Yeah, and then repeat the behavior. Like, what are they doing? Yeah. You know, what are these things? It must be so wildly different also to see it from that perspective, because being on the ground looking up is one thing. And sure, you can spot anomalous behavior, but there's so.

much going on above your head, right? Like you said, there's rockets coming back into orbit. There's, you know, Elon's got 4,600 satellites up there. Like, there's a lot. There's asteroids. There's things burning up. Yeah. You know, you're catching reflections off certain crafts that are, you know, just orbiting the planet that are reflecting off the sun. So you're getting glimmers. But being at that altitude and seeing something straight on, I think is such a different and interesting perspective to this because now it's now you can confirm that it's not in space because being on the ground you have no point of reference it's either a big object that's you know far away or a small object that's close like i don't know but being level playing field

with this thing watching it go i mean that must be just a just a much more yeah so like so like even with aerial like you know the race radar coverage in, well, actually, they did catch it on radar on the corner of their scope. But they had it on their own. They have like a radar in the plane. It's limited T-CAS for collision avoidance for commercial. They picked it up on the T-CAS. So so did those people in that clip we're talking about out in Oregon, I think.

Yeah. Yeah. So they had it on their T-CAS, but the radar station didn't have it on. So it's telling you this object is in very close proximity. Well. You know, but at the same time, radar doesn't have it as a primary target. That's interesting because the same thing happened the night before Ariel. A lot of the pilots talked like, I got it on my T-Cass, like collision avoidance, yet you guys don't have it on radar.

South Africa, on the one pilot I did interview, they did have it on radar. He went to the tower right when he landed. He's like, did you guys get this on radar? It's like we had it on for like two seconds. It was going so fast that we don't know where it was. Whoa. And he saw, that's what he saw. I mean, within two seconds, I think he's, yes, four seconds.

And it completely, he's at 25,000 feet. So your horizon's massive. You know, you can see a lot of, you know, and within four seconds. and completely cross the horizon and at a kind of a straight line, not like some, a meteorite or anything like that. He thought it was another aircraft coming up next to him. Anyway, those are interesting interviews because the pilots are, they are, they have to.

Incredible. Yeah, you got to pay attention. You have to know what you're doing. Your life's at risk, the people's lives are at risk if you have passengers. Yeah, there seems to be a concerted effort to, within the last few years anyways, at least, to sort of bridge that gap at the FAA and allow for commercial pilots to report these things and create this, you know, funnel where they can now, you know, I know that Ryan Graves is working with that as well. And I think it's very important. And it's cool that he is working with it because he's someone, I believe that like we can sort of trust on this issue. you know, he seems like a straight shooter, understands, you know, some of the capabilities of these crafts and, you know, has heard a lot of testimony as well. A lot of people come to him. So, you know, I think it's important. But, you know, ultimately, if you look at things like even the O'Hare incident, was it, was it 06 or 07 or whatever it was. And, you know, everything was confiscated. It was like they just right away shut that. thing down and it was like it was a hiccup you know um but that was a mass sighting as well but that got controlled real quick because it happened around an airport like you know yeah so

that's that's the that's the other thing is like there is a fear i'm pretty sure you know among pilots and among air staff uh in general not just pilots but like you know radar operators and even ground you know yeah crew and that um yeah you shouldn't you shouldn't you shouldn't speak of this, you shouldn't talk of this. It's true. A lot of people are fighting for those jobs, and, um, right. Yeah, it's unfortunate because, uh, we lose a lot of information.

That's what drives me. It's like we, you know, every little bit of data is important. Information, testimony, you know, or witness what you witness, paints a picture. Um, and so. many people just don't come forward. Yeah, that's the other thing. Uh, yeah.

A pilot, uh, F11, um, Air Force. They witnessed a, um, vehicle up at 25,000, again, 25,000. It's interesting because they are seen at an interesting altitude between 20 and 30,000 feet. Um, a lot of them, you know, they, are, we stay up at 35, 40,000, you know, for, um, Most of our commercial flights are up there. But a lot of the activities around 25, which is fascinating to me. Because you wouldn't see it if you're in a plane, maybe?

No, it's under you. It's just maybe. It's just not. I don't think that's the, it's just interesting. There is an altitude that is, people see that anyway. It was a F-11. And they had it on their onboard radar. And they saw the target coming toward them.

This is an interview I did. And it was on a dead on collision. That was the worry because it was heading right toward them. And they were in the clouds, so they couldn't see it. And then all of a sudden the clouds break open. And then it comes out of the clouds and it's huge. What's it? Oh, my God.

Like a black cigar shaped. And he's estimating, you know, 700, 900 feet long. Oh, my God. Yeah? It's a big deal. And these empennages, that's what he would call them, like big circle, your circular like hangers. You could look into it and you could see the shadow.

He explains this. Boy, I don't know if I should be talking about this yet. But, yeah. So, I mean, they were both afraid to even report it, you know, when they landed. And they did, they did, they kept quiet about it. Yeah. But he's been thinking about it ever since 1981. Of course.

Why wouldn't you? That's haunting. Yep. I mean, you're so vulnerable being up there. And, you know, he wasn't alone. He was a navigator. Sorry. He was the navigator and the pilot.

They were like, did you see? that, you know, they both saw it. Wow. Yep. So there's a lot of interesting things that get seen. I just don't get, again, like that would have been helpful to, you know, why? You know, do we already know all this? We not need that information or is it the concern for public panic that they. Do you think it's a concern? for public panic? I do. That's the main reason in your mind. That's what I've heard over and over. Yeah.

It seems to be, I mean, that seems to definitely be a reason. Like, I mean, you know, there's so many examples, if you look back in history, where ontological shock has literally crippled people. And, you know, they've probably played this scenario out a billion times in a billion different ways, whoever the people are in the program. you know, to make sure that, hey, we don't want to destroy the economy or start a war or whatever it is. But, you know, part of me also thinks that, like, man, humans, humans are just greedy sometimes, too. And, like, I really, I don't know, this is just a gut feeling, but I really feel like there are just like a small group of people that just don't want you to know.

Yeah. And they're just like, nope, that's ours. You can't have it. and they got money, they got power, they got, you know, and that just gets them off. And I, because, you know, a lot of us could handle it, not the entirety of it, perhaps. But I think, you know, if you go around asking people, there are ways to disseminate information that are probably a lot more, that's a lot easier than what they're doing now. you know this whole like leak and deny and like it's just so bizarre of the behavior and then like even with like the drone stuff happening they're like we don't know what it is this seems like a

really sloppy job you know if you were to give out some information i just think there's there's like an easy way to do it and for some reason whatever that reason is they just don't want people to know they don't want people to know well it's you know it's already been disclosed essentially people don't even realize that's already happened but you know they don't have to

I feel the same way like you know do whatever you guys want keep doing what you're doing you don't have to share everything just tell us yeah that there's the intelligent life in the universe

please and I think the end result of that it's going to be shocking for a lot of people and there's going to be a transitional period that I think everybody goes through

when they actually see it or come to terms with it. And then there's going to be a lot of excitement about, like you were saying, like, oh, man, wait, we're not alone out here. That opens up space to a lot of excitement and exploration. And I think that's going to move us forward in a way we've never seen before. So I think it's, yeah, there's things I probably agree that they shouldn't share with us. But net positive overall. If humanity finds out, yeah, I think so. It's going to be some hard pills to swallow, so to speak.

But yeah, I think we're already there. I mean, it's no accident that we're in space. You know, we're just getting off this planet. We're starting to explore. And of course, we're running into these things more often and these things are paying attention, you bet. It's a critical stage of our evolution. Right, we hit a certain technological peak, and now they're popping up.

Yeah. Whether it's like nuke or space travel, feels like they're like, oh, they're finally getting out of the playpen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I believe that. Do you believe they've been here for a long time? I do.

Like thousands of years? Yeah. Yeah. Is there any part of you that believes that they are responsible? responsible for us? I don't know. Boy, there's so many pieces to that. It wouldn't surprise me.

I just don't know. So I kind of have my own little, like, speculative. Like, okay, let's, how is this? There's some pretty spectacular things that have happened in our past that are still there, you know, as pyramids or, you know. Just really curious technologies. So I don't know. I mean, that's kind of the, I'd like to know that.

I think if, you know, if there's a lot of things that, I think if we find out where it would be like, oh, that makes total sense. Yeah. The puzzle pieces fit. Yeah. It's like revealing a magic trick, really. Yeah.

You overcomplicate things. sometimes in your head and you're like, well, he must have had this electromagnetic thing up his sleeve. And then I'm like, no, it's just like an invisible thread or something. And then they're like, oh, yeah, of course, you know. But we overcomplicate things sometimes because, you know, we just overthink. But it might be a lot simpler. I think it is. I think it is. And people make it more complex, well, for various reasons. Yeah. To keep advantage over others or profit or what you know you know a whole bunch of things human beings do but i find it interesting the whole timing of all this where we're all these things that we have to deal with are all coming to

ahead you know we're out we're getting off the planet we're we've got a climate issue big time and then i don't know it's just so we're at the edge of of a lot of things so if you could place yourself behind a rock somewhere at any point in history and have like the best view of anything being done whether it's a visitation or some monumental event besides ruah where would you put yourself fly on the wall no one will ever see you and you get to have the best view you get to soak it all in whatever that thing is. Mm-hmm.

I mean, there's several. I mean, immediately think of around the building of the Great Pyraman. I would love to have seen who was involved. Yeah. Or how that was done? Well, I'd like to see who was there besides the human beings. If that, if that, I don't even know.

I would just, boy, that's, that's, that's. Have you been to the pyramids? Never been, no. Oh, my God. No. You have to see that. I would love to one day. It is very, it's just, uh, you leave there a different person.

Mm. Because the closest I've been is a Coral Castle in Florida, so. Oh, I haven't seen that. I'd like to see that. Yeah, it's okay. But it is, um, it's one of the wonders that, for sure, wonders of the world. Yeah. They're colossal.

they're really just pictures don't do it justice they don't like the statue of liberty it's like oh geez it's a lot bigger than you know when you see it you're like eh but boy you see the pyramids you're like

oh my god these things are wow yeah there's so much too much too they're like megalithic like it's I've seen pictures of people in comparison next to them and they just stand next to a rock and they're not even half the size of the rock.

Yeah. And you're just like, wait, I don't know what? Like, it's really hard to comprehend on photo, but in person must be just, yeah, I guess it just, yeah, it just shows you. It cements that idea of how can we do this? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty stunning. I'd like to, I'd like to see.

Where would you like to be? Holloman. Oh, yeah, in 1954. Yep. I'd like to be behind a little. rock somewhere in a safe area and just kind of or maybe in that helicopter or whatever just be yeah boots on the ground somewhere there and watch that watch that happen yeah I would love to know what was that yeah going to the go to the go to the jeep yeah well well there's my question

well like what I mean I'm sure if there was a conversation they said some very very frank things. I would like to know what they said. If you could ask one question, what would it be? That's something you want to keep for yourself? Yeah. Yeah, that's fine. I do have a personal.

And I think I know the question is. Yeah. All right. We'll do, how about we take some questions from Patreon? Is that cool? All right. I'm going to hit record on the other camera here.

One second. All right. I'm going to pull these questions up. This is from our interns. as we call them. They are allowed because they pay a fee every month. They get access to a lot of perks. And one of those perks is asking the guest a question.

So I've only got a few here because this was like a last minute thing. But we'll try to post some money. I think we might have answered some of these, honestly. Oh, okay. This is actually a good question. And this isn't a question that is normally typical. So I do like this one from J. Dentity. J identity?

Yeah. Jade entity, maybe. I don't know. What do you think are the strongest counter arguments skeptics present? Now, specifically, the Ariel thing. What's like a strong counter argument that a skeptic would present? Something you've heard and then maybe elaborate on how, you know, you could counter argue that. Mass hallucination was one.

So I went and spoke to a lot of psychiatrists and, well, it was really interesting. Like, well, we don't really know what that is. Right. Like, we don't have like examples of it's not. Anyway, I was okay because I wanted to see how, what are the other examples of this? So that was one. That's one that you can't just easily dismiss either because it's just so last resort. well blanket statement everybody's on drugs or something like yeah I could yeah is a problem with that or

are the other witnesses like the pilots that were up there yeah so they're saying having the same right mass solutionation and then the people in the village are also having that I mean um it just didn't appear that way at all and then I guess military aircraft oh yeah is like is maybe the other one? That was the other one, satellite, rocket body reentry, which I looked into quite a bit. And the problem with that was that you had a lot of people, and there's no question that probably did happen. But there was something else seen there that, you know, throughout that whole week. Yeah, not just at the school. Right, right, all over. Because clearly whatever happened to school wasn't a crash. No. That was not a rocket reentry. No, and it was interesting because I did find people that saw a reentry, and I'm like, yeah, that's, that's, and then I found other people. And the thing was, these were not unqualified witnesses, so to speak. They were people that worked at the airport, people that, you know, veterinary. It's just different people with very, they're not stupid, you know, and they witnessed hovering, you know, they did, they witnessed a lot of things that are not. what a reentry looks like.

Yeah. Or space debris coming in. So, yeah, I mean, that was the other thing I had to entertain. Like, well, what else could this have been, you know? And I still keep kind of an open. Yeah. But what are you left with? Like, that's the crazy part.

It's like, what do you left with? If you, you know, if you take away those things, you're like, what are you left with? You're not left with much. If you're jumping to mass hallucination. doesn't leave you with many options, I feel. Like, that's kind of bottom of the barrel stuff there. Yeah. You know?

Yeah. I mean, you know, the whole thing about the simplest exhumination is usually the correct. You know, Hawkins Razor. Yeah. That, I do believe that is true, but maybe not with this stuff. Mm-hmm. You know, maybe we're seeing something. We can't put everything under that category with something as extraordinary as this.

and people are putting their reputations on the line. I mean, we're seeing a lot of that right now with these people are coming forward that are F-16 pilots, F-18 pilot. I mean, people with some serious credentials that could go to jail if they're lying or be dismissed from or lose their clearances. Even if Congress says, well, we got a whistleblower protection act or whatever. It's like, that doesn't mean really anything. you know, if you feel like you're being threatened, yeah.

Very true. I mean, I hope they do something because that is happening to get a few people. There is, there are private funds now, which are coming out like the UAP disclosure fund, I think, and some other private organizations that are gathering money for whistleblowers. Right. Because one of the things that like, aside from life-threatening interactions, they're also just threatening to have no pension. Right. Right. And that's like a big deal if you got, you know, family and you're trying to take care of them and you can't enter the workforce again because your reputation's tarnished. Who's taking care of you? And, you know, and if you see how much the government takes care of veterans, well, then you can kind of draw a clear line and see that, oh, you might also be left out to dry. So, you know, it's good that a lot of these private organizations are beginning to at least take some action. Yeah, that's wonderful. That's necessary.

Mm-hmm. All right. We have, uh, I think we answered this one. I mean, I'll throw it up, but maybe you got something else to add to it. But we did, I think we did talk about this. How cool is that? That's awesome. What was the purpose of the Ariel siting?

I find the interesting part, and it was a very real thing, are the messages they got the kids. What made me really convinced like that really happened was the males that did not want to talk about it. Yet, yet they had had that images put into their head about, you know, the destruction of the planet, what we were doing, stuff like that. That's a, that was a very real thing.

You know, I initially thought, well, maybe this is what happens when you see something weird and odd, you start thinking about your own environment and it causes all kinds of, you know, I kind of explored that quite a bit. But when I started to find kids that were. talk to me about it but did not want to discuss it on camera or didn't want to talk about it at all, yet they admitted that that happened. That was pretty interesting. And so, you know, why kids, why tell them that? I mean, they're going to grow up. They're growing, you know, they're grown up now and just, how are they influencing society from what they learned? They're all over the world. It's very common for people that have had encounters.

the very same thing. It's not just that. It's a pretty common aspect to this that you're shown certain things about your own species, what's your own species is doing to this environment. Kind of takes the heat off you as an alien entity, too, I feel. You know, if you're like, oh, you think I'm scary. Yeah, look what you're doing.

You think exactly, look how scary this is, right? Kind of softens the blow a little bit maybe, you know, to be like, no, no, no, we're not. the bad guys. Yeah. You know, it's like every zombie movie I've ever watched. It's not the zombies you've got to be afraid of. You know, it's the people.

It's the humans. Yeah. Interesting. Well, I mean, I was a reference to wildlife and how we, you know, animals overpopulate an area when the deer overpopulate, they start to get disease and they start to have other issues. So we call them to keep that from happening. You know, there's just tons of things we do with, uh,

because we can't have a conversation about what you're, we know a little better than they do. Yeah. About certain things that are going to happen if they go too far in a direction. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And,

and, you know, that is interesting, too, that, like, just, like, giving the children these images and talking and visiting the children,

you know, they grow up, they're affected by this for life, you know, as you know, with your interactions with, with, with them, but they go on to also sort of become, in their own ways, ambassadors for the phenomenon.

Yeah. Right? A lot of people out there, not just that incident. You don't just forget it and move on. I mean, look at even, you know, you want to look at Travis Walton. Like, he's not going to go and get a regular job. No. Now this is his life, you know. And so they must be aware that they have that effect. True, but you don't get paid for that. No. Right? Yeah. It's kind of a, you know what I mean? And if you do, you get ostracized. That's true. That's true. It's, but it's such an important thing to share and, and boy, so many people and what they do have to share is really that wonder. We talked with magic, right, the awe, but it's actually real. Yeah. Like it's a real. It's not pretend.

It's not. And it's going to take time. But I just think of all these people that have come forward so many. And I don't know how we treat those people properly. That's been on my mind a lot. Because they've been through so much. They're misunderstood, mislabeled. I don't know how we as a society, as a species, integrate those people.

I mean, they should be, in my mind, they should be treated like veterans of a war, you know, in a sense. Right. And we're kind of making light of it. Yeah. We leave them out there. You know, I'm glad that boroughs and, you know, they've gotten medical care for what they went through. Think, you know, that was a huge deal. Randlesham.

Yeah. And, but there's so many other people that, they just don't get the proper care. Yeah, psychologically, you mean. Yeah, and physically. And physically. Yeah, in some cases. Yeah. Which has been mentioned in the hearings as well.

Yeah. That like, hey, if this isn't happening, why are we treating people for wounds? Right. Right. Like, that's exposure to certain things. Like, okay. Kind of insane that we're treating wounds of a pretend phenomenon. Yeah.

No crap. I think we got one more here. Well, I think this is kind of exactly what we just touched on, which is synchronous. This is from Hex 0811. Yeah. Is the population ready as a whole? I think so. I think 20 years ago, no.

30, you know, I think the, there's so many parts of it that have made it possible to get to be at this point, which is the web, you know. the world has gotten a lot smaller religion is not as dogged in a way than it was before we're already out in space there's many things that have come together but I think so I think it's what's going to propel us into the future

is just say okay and we're going to have to take that slow what we I mean that's the thing about confronting a superior, you know let's just say that. An alpha species is very humbling. And let's see what that relationship is.

And man, the thing that I get, I always think of as like, what have they seen already? What do you mean? What other places have they been? Other planets that they know about, you know? The knowledge. The knowledge base. which would save us a lot of time figuring it out. They know that, though.

I would think so. Yeah. Just so strange. It's so strange because, you know, you get to the end of these questions, and there's always something that just doesn't compute. There's always something that's like, this doesn't equal zero when I put them together. What parts? I mean, for me, it's a lot of the why.

Yeah. It's a lot of the why. The why just doesn't make sense from what I've heard, you know. That's the question I didn't answer. Yeah. It's the why. Yeah. And I mean, that's the big question, you know. We're past the even even the what, like, you know, it's or the when or the where. It's really, it's really about the why. And it's not like. Yeah. Yeah. Why us? Like that's the whole thing, right? Because you have to imagine that the, There's a big universe out there. There is something special here. There has to be. There has to be. It has to be something unique. And I would kick myself for saying this years ago because I'd be like, well, you're

just being egotistical. You're being human. You're thinking we're special. You know, we're just like everyone else in the universe. But it doesn't seem that way. It doesn't seem that way. It seems like we are a valuable, you call it asset, call it, you know, you want to call experiment.

You want to call it. buy product you want to call it whatever but there's something extremely valuable here that that they are clearly interested in yeah why bother yeah and why hide that why not let us know why are they hiding that what is there to know that is to our detriment that is not to our benefit from these. Yeah. Why is it? If it was to our benefit, what's the harm in telling us?

Um, I think I know the answer that. I was, man. Hmm. Yeah, I think it's delicate to expose yourself to a species that doesn't, not as advanced as you. Yeah. And I think they're very, in my personal opinion, from people I've interviewed, well, it's just, I think, it appears they're very,

They're very aware of that. I could be wrong. It could be, the covertness of it is very interesting. Because it's not completely covert. Not quite. It's like. They could do a better job even. Right.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's like. It's almost like they don't care that much. Or they kind of want to give you a hint. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, I guess, part of.

part of this whole hidden agenda that we're, I guess, not ready to be privy to or whatever that is, you know, it's just, it's just a little frustrating being, being someone who deep within understands that, you know, that, that, that there could be some good from this and that like, you know, we'd probably, you know, like Reagan said, you know, we'd be, we'd be, we'd be a lot more, we'd be, we'd be treating each other a lot better if we understood that there was something out there. I agree with that. You know, 100%. And so it's just strange that we don't get that. You know, there's got to be something else then. Profit, yeah. And it goes back to like, who knows? Fear sells.

Yeah, fear sells. Anyway. Yeah. All right. Well, do you mind sticking around for like an extra 20? We're going to cut this one and then just do like a little talking page on. Is that cool? Sure.

And we can talk about some other stuff. guys if you want to head over to obviously become an intern or remember you can click all the buttons below and follow that we're going to continue the conversation but I also highly suggest you go check out aerial phenomenon incredible documentary is there anywhere they can follow your work is there a link that we'll add below aerial phenomenon dot com yep that's our primary okay yeah it's available on Apple uh Apple TV and Amazon. Yeah. Go support Randall and his work. I'm looking forward to what you got going on next. And, you know, whenever you decide to share that with the world, I will be here and I will be waiting on day to breath. So I appreciate you being here.

This has been a lot of fun. Same here. Thank you. Appreciate it.