AREA52 - DEBRIEFED With Chris Ramsay - Project: Stargate - The $20M CIA Psychic Spy Program w/ Chris Ramsay & Nelson Dellis - DEBRIEFED ep.1

Episode Date: September 6, 2023

Join Chris Ramsay and Nelson Dellis in the thrilling premiere of "Debriefed." In Episode One, we delve into the fascinating world of Project Stargate. Through personal stories and insights, we explore remote viewing techniques and uncover hidden truths. Get ready for a journey into the secrets of Project Stargate. Welcome to "Debriefed: Episode One" – an immersive experience that will leave you wanting more. Patreon Exclusive Content: https://www.patreon.com/Area52investigations Join The Area52 Discord: https://discord.gg/x29SrGtdNu Follow me on IG: https://www.instagram.com/area52investigations/

There's just an overwhelming amount of evidence that says that this is a real thing. It was another kind of like crack in my reality. I want to know if the government is so real. If that's true, what does that mean about the universe? Yeah, it is real. Wake up. All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the very first edition of Debriefed. podcast, we're going to dive into basically the, you want to call it an investigation

of remote viewing, which we just had. We had a, what is it, over a year-long journey at this point. Took a little hiatus. But then we got back to it and we just, you guys have probably seen, you know, all the videos that we put up on this channel and hopefully you've seen Nelson's videos as well on his channel, you know, which looks at a different part of remote viewing. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Nelson Delis. Hey, everyone. Thanks for having me.

So let's just dive right into it. Guys, if you don't mind, obviously subscribing, leaving a like, and maybe leaving a review on the audio platform. It really helps out. Nelson Delis, five-time U.S. memory champion. Let's start at the beginning. You were... You were hit up on Facebook, I believe.

Yeah, so as part of this memory world, I'm a part of a few Facebook groups, you know, where we just post about championships and happenings in the memory world, as exciting as you may think that may be. But anyways, people sometimes come out there and post really out there stuff and sometimes you ignore it, sometimes you read it. And this particular post, it wasn't directed towards me specifically, it was just for the group. And it was maybe a sentence or two saying something like, I'd have to look it up exactly,

but it was basically there's a job opportunity, part time, make a little cash, doing something with your memory that vague, not even talking about anything. Did other people respond to that? From what I saw, I didn't see any other responses? No, nobody had even commented on it, maybe a couple likes. So you don't know if anyone else was introduced to this, or you would have known by now, speaking to Brett. Oh, I know. I know. Who else was involved? And there was others. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Oh, did you hear about them? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And how did they do?

I'm very good. I didn't hear about this. Yeah. So I don't know how much I want to give because I feel bad putting him into that world. But there is another well-known memory athlete who was, there were two of us, me and this other person. I think maybe a couple other people went into the interview, if you can at that applied or whatever or threw their hat in the ring but uh they i think they had already said i was i probably was the first because i always answered to stuff like that i'm just curious um and that's what i did i sent an email saying i'm or a dm and was interested and they call me pretty quickly um and i think this other memory athlete was the second and then they were good with two of us for this project um but this other memory athlete is a top memory athlete uh i won't tell it

who it is. But I will say that he is of a part of the world where they think a very certain way. And it's hard to break that. A skeptic. Yeah, yeah. The most skeptic, if you can think of any country in the world where they might be that way and like nothing will change their... So he's Middle Eastern.

No, well, I don't, maybe I'm making the generalization. There's a lot of skeptics in the world. But it's funny. I was surprised that he had to. done this. But, you know, after, and we would check in from time to time going through this program and be like, what do you think? Is this real? Like, have you had any hits? And even Brett would say, like, he's doing really well. Wow. Probably even better than me. But the memory athlete would just be like, this is such bullshit. Brett's tricking me. Right. You know, our trainer, he's like switching

out photos or I'm making it up in my head. And I talked to him maybe like half a year ago and he's He doesn't do it anymore, but he still thinks back on it. It was just like it was a horse of crock shit. Yeah. Can't blame them for feeling that way. You know, it's how I would think more than half the people, you know, feel about this subject because they're uneducated. Yeah, yeah.

And, you know, not to jump ahead, but going in to the places and speaking to the people that we've spoken to, you know, we've, I feel just healthier that we come to our own conclusions through this rather than just dismiss it all entirely. And I feel like you're the same. So after this, you're doing this memory stuff for them. They train you every day for an hour for a month, five days a week, something like that. Yeah, it was pretty rigorous. I mean, the actual session was an hour a day five times a week,

Mondays for Friday for about a month, a little more. And then we'd have to do these sessions. So there's homework, essentially. And that took some time. So it was pretty in depth. And then once that training session was over, we kind of graduated. to doing the actual tasks for our employer. Right.

Okay. And then based on those, so to get a little technical, what you ended up doing with these people with something known as ARV, which is different than remote viewing and different than CRV coordinate remote viewing. ARV is associative remote viewing.

And if I understand correctly, it's a binary sort of system to where you're essentially describing something, and then you're presented with two pictures, and whatever one that that is closer to will be the result. And on the back of that paper could be some information that you're not privy to and that maybe even the person giving you the photos isn't privy to, but that goes into a whole separate thing.

Yeah, yeah. So basically you're doing a remote viewing session, a little more stripped down, a remote viewing session, only because you're going to take your results and have it judged, ideally by somebody else, but in some cases you can do it yourself if you have a good protocol. But you judge what your results match better to, photo A or photo B. And on the side of the person who provides those photos for you, they try to really choose photos that are really different,

just so that the judging is easier and there's really no way that you could be confusing one or the other when it comes to what you saw. And then, you know, that binary choice, those two photos on the side of the task, tasker, they basically associate one photo with the other, with some situation. And in our case, we were doing it with trading and stocks, right? So photo A might be a stock's going up versus photo B going down. We do the remote viewing session. I say photo A, right?

And then they would make a bet or trade. based on that. And we were a team, so it was actually not just what Nelson got. It would have been what me and number two was, the other memory athlete, and then they actually had another group of six people. And I'm sure if that information was conflicting,

they might just not use it. And then if it was supportive, if all the information that you were getting from these three sessions were supporting, then that would be like a conclusive way to bet. Yeah, so sometimes, you know, based on what you got as a group, you pass, right? You don't do anything. Even sometimes my judging or my session would be worthy of a

pass because it wouldn't be very convincing whether it was one or the other. And that's okay. That's why having a team is so much more effective than just one person. Right. You know, let's say my stats say that I hit it right 55% of the time. You know, as a group, you may have somebody that's closer to 60%. Someone that's like 53%. But as a group, you can get a better hit rate. And that, I think that goes, that goes for a lot of what they were doing, you know, at SRI back in the day as well. They had teams of remote viewing and would more often than not, you know, have multiple people come to the same conclusions, which really strengthened their resolve in whatever, and whatever mission they were on. Yeah. So this is something that you've done.

You've, since then, since learning this now, now, take us through. I don't want to get into the specifics of this because there is NDA involved and there is everything else. But this project ends. You're done with this. And you move on. You then started using this for your own benefit to see if you can win it horse racing and baseball games

and sporting events and that type of thing. And how did that do for you? Yeah, it's still ongoing. Let me back up a bit because I feel like people would love to know whether I actually made money from this. Of course. And the first project, yes, they paid me for my time. It was all right.

It was good for what it was. And it had a cool story attached to it. In terms of when I started actually doing stuff for their portfolio, I was promised a back-end portion of the returns, but the project kind of fizzled out for some reasons I can't talk about, unrelated to the results or anything that had to do with the people running it at the high levels. So anyways, I didn't see anything from that.

Okay. So I let that sit for a while. I still wasn't 100% convinced, but I was kind of on this quest for myself to like, is this real or not? Figure that out. And I started doing stuff with casual day-to-day things that I'd go to. We have a horse racing track near our house.

So try it with some horse racing. I like to watch the NBA finals and March Madness. So try it on betting on some games and stuff like that. And I try to keep track of. of the results. Were you alone in this? Yeah. Yeah.

Just so self-funded, not crazy money, just putting a little bit. I don't really like to gamble for sports, but, and I don't know anything about it. I'm not one of these guys that knows the odds of this and I don't understand it really. So I have to learn a bit of that. But I started with the horse racing. One day I went to the track in Saratoga, and they have about 10 races in a day. And each race, let's say, has about 10 horses, give or take average. Sometimes it's more, sometimes it's less.

Some horses get scratched, whatever. And I was basically going to see, can I predict the winner of the race? Which isn't really a good way to bet on horse racing. You got to do like, you know, the trifecta and the box this and that. I don't even. Right, because the more things you bet on that are correct, the more risk is involved, but the more payout is there. Exactly.

Yeah. Yeah. And so what I did, And I kind of consulted with my former trainer, what would be the best approach? And he said, Brett. Brett, yeah. Just try something simple, like try to view the color of the winner. Oh, that's interesting.

Every horse has a saddle color, right? It depends on how many there are, but there's always like red, yellow, blue, green, green, exactly, orange. And if there's more horses, there's even more colors. Anyway, so I would do kind of like a mini session sometimes before the race, or I would just kind of be like, what color do I see? What comes to mind? The first thing I think of when I calm my mind, you know, be blue. Okay, so I bet on blue to be the winner. And that day I went four for ten, which is statistically very interesting.

Yeah, it's because this isn't, is this a 50-50 thing? No, so if you randomly guessed, say there's 10 horses, you would have a 1 in 10 chance of getting it right. You would have a 1 in 10 chance, right? Yeah. Because it isn't a 50-50, there's 10 horses. horses. Exactly. And so you got four.

Yeah. Wait, four races, you guessed correctly? Correct. Yeah. That is incredible. And actually, I don't know if this really means anything. Maybe the statisticians out there can tell me, but nine out of the ten, I got a horse that placed.

So that's one, two or three. Yeah. What is it, the P value of that? It's got to be pretty high. Yeah. Yeah. My friend, the math on stats, I'm bad, but. Yeah.

I know that in remote viewing, they've calculated P value. Yeah. I think that's what it's called. where there's this number against all the variables that determines whether or not, you know, this is one in a million or whatever it is. And that's something that they've seen with remote viewing time and time again and the reason they continued funding it. So, yeah, you made money from that.

Yeah, that day. So I put $100 in my account. I think every game, every race I bet like $10 or $20. And I ended up ending the day with like $350. few bucks because and this this is where I realized that my approach while interesting it may be the reason why you don't really see any millionaire remote viewers or maybe there are they just talk about it is okay if I did that approach and I'm seeing the winning horse most times the winning horse is going to be the the favorite right which is

a right not a great bet right you're going to win yeah you won't win a lot you might win but you won't win a lot what some of the horses that you bet on were they the favorites so three of them were the favorites and three than that one were the favorites exactly and the three of the four that i won and i won a little bit maybe a 20 bucks or yeah you double your bet type yeah yeah but then the fourth one was a underdog a huge underdog and that's where you make the money right yeah that's that'll pay 10x or whatever and that's where i think i won 200 bucks on that one wow yeah so and it was wild the horse i have it on video it's going to be in one of my videos but he that horse came from behind and i was just like i'm not going to win it was a weird color too was the gray saddle which that came to me i was like gray like is what position there was

it was a big race of like 13 horses i think and man it came down the home stretch like from the back how are you feeling in this moment dude the reaction you understood why people go to horse races in that yeah exactly and the fact that i saw that yeah i remember we were eating shake shack there's a shake shack at the track and i was like i'm going to do my session i was like gray gray gray gray's coming to me this is the one and it was the one and during the race my wife was with me she was like oh sorry buddy it's not going to happen. Then he came and I was like, was she also getting excited. Yeah, we were here. That's so cool. So Brett Stewart,

let's talk about the first person that we encounter in this journey. Brett Stewart, who claims to do this for a living. Yes. Which, you know, anyone out there wondering whether or not remote viewing is accurate, if someone can make a living doing this,

I mean, that's right. Now, it is to be argued that perhaps, he's got side hustles and maybe he teaches remote viewing on the side and that gives him some money and that's to be taken into account too. But from what he was telling me, he was telling me that he was getting like above 50%. Yeah, I think in the 60s. In the 60s, right. And again, the P value of that, if anybody could control winning 60% of the time, you'd be a trillionaire. Yeah. Right? Because you could bet all your money all the time kind of thing or half your money. and eventually just win money.

So he does this for a living, which I thought was really interesting. And so he's the one who's kind of guiding you in this betting process because this is his domain. Yeah. He learned this from a guy named Major Ed Dames. Let's go down this road with Ed. Good old Ed now. Have you read his book? Yeah.

So I have, as well, it's audio book. Very interesting. And, you know, it's, I suggest you guys go listen to it. it's you know if you take it as fiction it is a great piece and if you take it as fact it is a great piece and that's kind of that's kind of how i view it um controversial figure yeah in the remote viewing space um and there's a few reasons why one is because if you've seen the movie men who stare at goats which isn't a great reference for any of this but it is a terrible movie but it It has its moments.

It's out there. Kevin Spacey, you had Jeff Bridges. No, not Jeff Bridges. Who is it? Yeah, yeah. It was Jeff Bridges? And George Clooney. And you and McGregor.

And the Force and the Jedi and all this. The writers must have mentioned the Force and having Jedi powers like a hundred times. They had fun with it. But he plays the role of Kevin Spacey. So Kevin Spacey plays a role of Ed Dames in all of this and kind of, quote, unquote, the asshole of the bunch who is very... A villain. A villain who wants to have remote viewing powers,

but isn't the most gifted. Yeah. And who then takes control once it was passed on to the Army intelligence, who takes control of the program for a few years. It was only like two years, I believe, two or three years. And this is during, I think, the passing of Ingo Swan as well. Yeah. And so it is sort of bequeathed to...

to Ed and Ed sort of runs with this protocol and then makes his own protocol based on Ingo's work and that's where there was a riff between the other remote viewers,

the scientists and then Ed and his team. Because Ed made this sort of protocol, this military you can teach it to anyone and it's just about practice. Stage 2. Exactly. The things that we've learned, the things that we've done, which have worked.

Yep. All right. We can't say they didn't work. They did work. We did get some incredible results. Yep. So there's that. And then we'll get into the other stuff later, which is, we're the scientists and Joe

McMonagall and how put off in all of them, where they, you know, how they see remote viewing. But let's talk about Ed for a second. Meeting Ed after reading the book, what were your first impressions? Right. Well, so going into the meeting, first of all, anybody else that I've talked to about, remote viewing the people in that space you know it started with Brett Brett's counterpart who hired me and some other people I've met kind of in the ESP SI world whenever I said Brett they they didn't it's not that they didn't like Brett but I

think they knew it was associated with Ed yeah and so there's always kind of like this stigma stigma against Ed and his practices oh kind of controversial everybody would say that everybody yeah I'm like okay dang I learned from the wrong person said maybe yeah um and i don't know what that means you know like in the memory world there's some people are like yeah he's you know and it's like you don't really know the intricacies of what that means why um so yeah we sat down uh well we we we i met him at the airport he was the kindest man ever uh took us around town was so happy to meet us and talk to us he claimed to be a um a hermit so i could see how he was very excited to share with us get out very often get out and get out and

really, you know, let us know everything. And share stories of his childhood and everything else. It was really pleasant. Yeah. So nothing against the man. He was very pleasant. I enjoyed the day and a half that we spent with him and the dinners that we shared. But man, when we sat down to interview him and talk about the stories, you know, I walked out

of that. I was just like, I don't know about this anymore. Yeah. It was bewildering. It was just out there. Yeah, it was out there. And you guys can see that interview on page. by the way, you know, I cut it short for the sake of the video, but if you have a look on Patreon, it's the full unedited version of Ed.

And that, watching that gives you an idea of the conversations we had afterwards as well, because it jumps from, you know, ultra-terrestrials to Sasquatch to the ghost of dinosaurs. You know, all these fantastical things. and it's really hard for someone like us who's seeking, you know, part of me wants to believe this is real, right? Initially, I get into this and I'm like, I'm hoping. So there is a bias. And although you would think hearing someone like Ed would strengthen that bias, it actually works contrary to it.

And it makes, I really, really like afterwards, after that particular encounter, I felt myself backing away a little bit in the other direction. You had the same feeling. However, you know, there were some really interesting things that he'd brought up and, you know, talking about remote viewing aliens, which to me is, you know, endlessly fascinating because that's another thing I want to believe in. Sure, yeah. But when it came to the practical remote viewing stuff,

like he did a session in front of us, which again really got nowhere because he's like, oh, this is where this guy is right now. I'm like, okay, I could have said he's in a field of flowers, and there's no way of disproving that. Right. And a lot of what Ed was telling us, even the stories,

there was no evidence. I'm not going to say proof, but there was no evidence. There was not a shred of evidence. No feedback. No feedback. Whether he was right or wrong. Exactly.

That bugged me. It bugged me very much. He had some cool stories, like I said, but you know, you just have to take his word for it. And memory is a tricky thing. It tends to not play in your favor when recounting, you know, facts. So, you know, we leave, we go meet Ed. There's this whole, this whole thing happening. It was interesting because on that day, it was June 16th, there was also something going around on Twitter,

which was the, the resident frequency of the earth was at 50 as opposed to being around 7.8 and 15 somewhere around there and no one knew what that meant.

No one knew if that was a solar flare or if that was a malfunctioning the equipment but it was all the buzz on Twitter. Did you feel differently that day? I was just excited but nothing out of the ordinary would have been like something's going on. It just felt like a cool, interesting day

where we were. Yeah. I felt doing more calm okay and it was notable like enough that I noted it even before I knew I was like I feel really good about like I feel like in a good and then I heard that it kind of like double down I was like oh to this you know my conspiracy mind took over yeah um yeah with with ed you know the thing that like I said that bugged me was everything every session that he did and all the like things he was the stories he was telling us about remote viewing sessions he's done projects he's on were all about things that you can never verify.

Yeah, you know. I bug me. Where, you know, something to do with aliens and, you know, what happened a million years ago at this location, like, okay, it's interesting. His theories for them or whatever he sees. And then how certain he was. That was, that was in a red flag. Right.

There was no question he was wrong. Yeah. And everyone else was wrong. Right. You know, and that, to me, is a red flag. Like when you're the person who thinks the whole world is crazy and you're not crazy, you know, the likelihood is that it's the opposite. I'm not saying he's crazy, but I'm saying that the claims he had,

he was so certain of that he didn't leave a margin for error. And from what we found out afterwards speaking to other people in the remote viewing space, was that there is a vast margin of error with remote viewing. And that is notable. And scientists and physicists who study this, will tell you it is not accurate. It is not accurate, but it is also not to be dismissed.

And that's kind of what led to the ongoing of the project. So we wrap up this thing with Ed, which, by the way, I want to thank Ed again. It was, you know, really, it was fun to get both sides of remote viewing to get these crazy different edges of the spectrum. And I think in the world of remote viewing,

I think more people would do a story on Ed and then separately do a story on someone else to have them both in the same video I thought was really interesting. One thing I want to say though, when he did do his session, I remember feeling really inspired by it. I watched it and doing his practice and I was like, oh, this is. I did too. This guy's really in it. Like, I want to do a session.

Like, I want to be like this. In the end, you know, he said that if you wanted to do a full session, we would have taken 45 minutes. 45 minutes longer, the detail that he goes to. I remember we walked out for a break I was like wow it was really cool to watch him do that but then it didn't go anywhere

so I was kind of let down a little bit but it looked like he was he was channeling something channeling something it also gave me a vibe of when I was in Nepal interviewing this guy that claimed to be a natural memory guy

Oh the speed reader guy Speed reader he could memorize a page just by and he read it right and I interviewed him he did a demo and I left feeling so perplexed and sort of inspired and not sure what to think. And it felt like that. You know, and not to say that Ed is a, is a con man, but it felt I had that like, he confused me, he tricked me maybe.

Or there's a little bit of pizzazz there that he, I don't know. The difference is there's what Ed's saying, there's no way of verifying it, right? And so it does let you linger in that space a little longer. and I remember actually during the session at one point he was smelling something you kind of see him on camera and he's like disgusted by what he's smelling and before that happened when he's picking up the smells even before he was disgusted I remember thinking myself pungent

I kept getting pungent and then he said pungent and I was like I literally like my heart skipped a beat because I was like this is what I was picking up and I feel like we were and I mentioned to him he's like oh that's a normal thing happens all the time that people get the same feelings and hey maybe he's right I think he might be on to something I forgot that part because I was over his shoulder filming,

and I remember like a millisecond before he would write something down, I almost felt what he was going to write down. It was a really weird feeling. So, you know, we end our time with Ed. You know, Ed, I get the feeling Ed thinks this whole documentary was going to be about him, which maybe I didn't make it clear in the beginning, and that was my fault. But I did tell him that we were going to be visiting other people.

but Ed wanted to get really deep into what it is he does. And if you guys want to check out what it does, because I do think it's interesting and I do think it merits more investigation because obviously he trained Brett, and Brett does this for a living, and Ed claims he's got the best students in the country. And, you know, we learn from them,

and then we're seeing results. We're newbies to this. So there is something there. And he was a part of these projects. He was part of SR. That's not a lie. That's real. So why would he be there if there wasn't something

to what he'd be? able to do, you know? Correct. Yeah, he was read in. The other thing is, like, you know, he told me about the billet structure that he was read in. There were a hundred people read into this project only, which means that as soon as someone leaves the project or retires or whatever, they bring one more person in and that number caps at 100. And so very highly, highly classified. I can't stress this enough. This was one of the most top secret projects ever in the United States government that we know about. This is one of the top because you don't get top secret to that level and hear about it normally. So, you know,

one of the more notable, unclassified projects ever in existence. So we under a time with Ed. And during this time, I was reaching out, you know, I've reached out to Hal put off. I've reached out to McMonagall. We reached out to Pat Price, was it, or Paul, Paul Smith. I'm Paul Smith. Lindy Cannon. So all these, we've reached out. You know, I wanted to get as much information as I could. Now this brings us, we finish with Ed.

Let's talk about Joe McMonagall. You know, we reached out to him online. Nancy McMonagall's Scooter response. And, you know, she's super bubbly, lovely, full of energy. She happens to be Bob Monroe's stepdaughter of the Monroe Institute and was director of the Monroe Institute several times, I believe. Bob Monroe who wrote Journeys Out of the Body, which was a book about outer body experiences. And they do studies at the Monroe Institute about outer body experiences, astral projection,

the Gateway Project, which is also linked to the CIA. Also, there's some declassified stuff there about us living in this hologram. And it's really crazy stuff. And Joe was actually, and I guess this is how he met, Nancy, I didn't ask him, but Joe, was actually asked to go to the Monroe Institute to be studied by Bob by the DIA, I believe, the Defense Intelligence Agency. They wanted him to spend the long weekends from Thursday to Sunday in Nellysford getting his brain measured and doing all these tests. He did this for 14 months. and he said he found some significant studies that showed that out of body actually does work.

But before we get into that, let's talk about meeting Joe. We go to his place, beautiful little town and he invites us into his home. What are your first thoughts? Yeah, I'd read a lot about him. He's kind of like this mythical creature at the top of the remote viewing chain. And there he was, just sitting there. And from what I had understood is that he's hard to, pinned down for an interview. Yeah, he refused

so many interviews. It's funny when we walked in, he's like, he turns to Nancy a scooter and he goes, see, I had a good feeling about these guys. That made me feel so good when he said that. Yeah. I was like, wow. You know, we're just two guys. I got tattoos and stuff. I like, you know what I mean? Yeah, we're coming, barging it with his camera.

With his camera, not even professional. Like, we just got her little, you know, dinky DSLRs and stuff. It's not some big TV thing. And yeah, he had a good feeling about us and we really got along yeah and they were super welcoming um and happy to basically let us do whatever we wanted um he showed us all around his house so welcoming he had boxes filled with cassettes of his live appearances where he did remote over 60 live appearances on on tv 60 live remote viewing sessions on tv uh which is more than you can say for anyone else in the remote viewing space and i saw that i mean i was just like man these need to be

out there. Like, why does he have them here in this box? Like, I would love to digitize those and get those out because... Yeah, I'm working on that. Okay. Yeah. I'm working on that. I want him to get somebody to do it for him.

Yeah. But those, because he did a TV show in Japan, which he touched on, where they had to find 24 missing people. This is so fucking wild, honestly. They had to find 24 missing people, and he ended up finding 12. That's insane. Insane. We're talking double blind.

He has no idea what he's looking for. He knows it's a person. Yeah. He describes the person. It's so insane that, like, he's like, yeah, did you guys know he was Korean? They're like, huh? They went to double check. Yeah, he was adopted by a Korean family.

He now lives in Korea. This is outside of Japan. He's in this building, on this floor, in this room. Show up with the cameras. They show up with the camera. There he is. Their brother's crying. And they're all like, oh, my God.

Like, that is crazy. And that's actually a verified thing. It's verified. And they had skeptical. on the show. Trying to figure out how to... Trying to disprove him actively. Like after the show,

even going behind there, looking like, this is a trick, this is a trick, he knows something. How does he know anything about a missing person? The missing person was brought to him. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. And so that was one of the most... So he showed us some of those sample sessions. And when I saw him, I was just, I was like, is this your final, like, debrief? I was confused as well.

Because it was so, like, matter of fact, here's the height, the name, street names, the subway maps that he drew and he's like no no this is my session you know and you compare it to the sessions we do where it's like different stages yeah we're like we're like edgy scratchy uh smells warm like all these yeah he was like no this person is five foot nine their age ranges between like 57 58 yeah there no margin of error like scratch is off or like side notes it's all just like written there so that was surprising to me and it told me like okay this person has

whole other game whole other game and a whole other process too, which I have never been shown yet. You know? That got me so excited. Dude, it got me excited, but at the same time, it's like seeing someone who's super talented in a field that you want to pursue, and it kind of discourages you. That too, yeah. We're like, well, I'm going to fucking give up.

This guy's way too good. But you also are like, well, he's got a different technique. Maybe if I learn that I'd get better. That's right. That's what I thought. And I'm interested to figure out what that technique is in time. I hope it's not just feel it. Yeah.

I'm just right what comes to my. I hope there's more to it than that. There probably is. Here's the thing. Here is the thing because I think speaking with Ed, I have to also, speaking with, sorry, Joe, I have to also speak about Dr. Ed May. Okay. Who was, who is still the chief, you know, researcher and physicist and scientists behind remote viewing still to this day, still studying. And he was, he's 83.

He was the senior scientist at SRI. So he was up there. They had to, I mean, the scrutiny that they had to build to really study this because they are, you have to understand, like, you know, Joe could have his stories and Ed, you know, Ed Dames can have his stories. But this is a physicist. This is someone who was hired to study it and to be skeptic. to be the most skeptical and to create the protocol that needed to be put in place in order to measure this properly, statistically, scientifically, scientifically. And we're talking everything from numbers, from them measuring their brain waves to everything, to remote viewing in submarines. Like they tested it to no extent. Like there's so much work on this stuff. You know, Joe even jokes about there's more studies on this than there was about aspirin.

Yeah. Which I thought was interesting. And so, They put together, Ed was asked, was tasked to put together, first of all, they had to, let's start with the remote viewers. They reached out to 600. This is from Ed. They reached out to 600 people. And these weren't random people. So these were like mental level, some of them.

So geniuses. Other were in CIA intelligence. So really smart people. Yeah, exactly. Autistic even. they would go there. So they made a group, and out of those 600, Ed said there's only 1% that has notable psychic ability.

And so they, I think, whittled it down to like 10. But even now, if you speak to Joe, and if you speak to Ed May, they'll tell you there's like four or five that are really good. Right, Joe was saying that. Yeah. And you want to know the interesting thing that you didn't hear? because you're like, okay, what are they have in common? Because they looked for all the commonalities.

Oh, sure. The only commonality. Yeah. Very significant. They all had synesthesia. Oh, wow. Each one of them. Did Joe have?

I believe so. We didn't talk about it, but this is what Ed May said. They all do. Wow. And not even like a light form of synesthesia, like straight up hearing colors. Yeah, yeah. seeing sounds and shit like that. Wow.

So this is, so I'm like, well, that's something that you guys can look for now. I was like, absolutely. He's like, that is not something they planned out, and it's just something that way. I have a close friend in the memory world who has a very significant synesthesia. I should ask her if she has any. Ooh. That would be.

Because I was talking about in memory, how I haven't trained synesthesia, essentially, for like numbers and things like that, but it's not natural. but for this memory athlete, she has it. She's always had it, you know. So there's another portion of this that might be tough because does she sort of have this automatic memory? She is amazing. One of the best at, say, words and names and others,

but those are so natural for her. Sometimes when you ask her, like, what's your technique? And you hear her talk about it. And it's kind of what I do, but on another level where it's automatic. You're not really doing anything. You're just being you.

It's frustrating, right? Well, I mean, Ed had mentioned that those make terrible remote viewers. Oh, really? Yeah. Okay. He had this guy who is like the best memory guy. He did like 30,000 digits of pie, 35,000 digits. You might know him.

Is it Daniel Tamet? I could be. Because I reached out to him recently because I wanted to talk to him physics stuff. And that was the first name he threw at me. And I know a lot about Daniel Tamet. He's a bit of a con artist. I wonder if that's him. I know he memorized a lot of digits to that extent.

This person was autistic or on the spectrum. That's the guy. Okay. So. Asperger's, right? Ed, yeah. He tested him? Yep.

And they said no good. The thing is, there's some stuff about him. Whether he was, well, I don't think there's any argument over whether he was on the spectrum or not, but whether he was using memory techniques or having a natural ability was large. question. He's mentioned at the end of moonwalking with Einstein if you want to go back and reread. Yeah.

So the problem that he found with memory athletes, not memory. So I don't think he knows the difference between a memory athlete and someone who has like photographic memory. Okay. Because I do think that's like a condition you have like when you're on the spectrum and you have this sort of photographic memory. Yeah. But most people don't know that memory athletes are just,

average people who practice. But what they found is that they're very front-loaded. The overlays are insane with people, with like this automatic memory, because they will recall so many things. I see. And so as soon as you feel something or it maps to something, it jumps on this neural pathway and you get an image. And so you become immensely front-loaded.

Got it. And that was a problem here. So it's hard to kind of block out that. Right. Which is not what you're, which is not what you have. And that's what I was trying to explain to Ed, but I don't think he really understood. I think for him, that's a whole, no memory people are bad at it. But I don't think most people understand, you know, what memory athletes start.

But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he's maybe doesn't understand, you know. Yeah. I have to ask him more. Yeah. So that was, you know, we talked to Joe about all this. He, you know, he mentions all sorts of rigorous training. and, you know, military guy, man.

These guys, they get up at 4 in the morning and they're like, you know, working for 12, 14 hours a day, seven days a week and all for, you know, progress and being studied. And stress, right? We talked about a lot about the stress of that job. Some of the tasks they have to do

just weighed so heavily on them. Yeah, some of them quit. A lot of them quit, most of them quit. They couldn't handle the stress. I mean, the stress and what we mean by stress isn't just remote viewing under pressure. It's a lot of times being taped, being videoed, being monitored by, you know, DOD, by, you know, DIA, by all these three-letter agencies that, you know,

you're speaking about your career, your job safety, you know, and the fear of missing a target or not being accurate, you know, is linked directly into the fear of losing your job. So it must be definitely a high stress environment. All while doing something that is ridiculed. Yeah. And, you know, like, you have that pressure, right? You can't kind of talk about it or you don't want to talk about it because you'll be laughed at. Yep.

Yeah, that's tough. I asked Ed May in the interview, I was like, you know, is this, I had to ask. You know, is this real? You know, what do you? And he says to me, He's like, let's say you're a chef and you have, I love physicists, by the way, because they fucking dumb it down for me. They're so smart that they're like, oh, here's your reading level.

He goes, let's say you're a chef and you're opening this restaurant. You have 19 seats. And first night, you open the restaurant to great success, 19 people. Great. Second night, 17 of those 19 people return. Is that a success? Yeah. Yeah.

Gold Star. Oh, yeah. Well, there are 19 of these intelligence agencies in the United States. Okay. 17 of them came back time and time again. Yeah. They came back up to close to 500 times total with individual missions, we'll say. They wanted that delicious dessert again.

He has a graph of all the agencies, how many times they came back each. And now 99% of all of these missions are still classified. But he showed me the graph, which is interesting. And the DIA came back 172 times for individual missions, not including the times they came back for the same missions. They loved their work, what they were doing. And part of that was, I believe it was like finding drugs coming off boats. And the remote viewers were just really good at it.

And I guess, again, it speaks to like the entropy of like maybe the product that was on board or something. And they could clearly see it. So they came back 172 times because they were like, yep, this works. And they love them. And it's cheap. Yeah, right? Super cheap. Paper and a pen.

CIA, like once or twice. FBI once or twice. But then, yeah, you had all these other agencies so many times. Very interesting. All right, let's get back to Joe a bit. Joe, you know, takes us through his home, lots of, you look through his home, lots of, like, Asian inspiration. He spent a lot of times overseas, you know, working in Japan. I believe in, like, Vietnam also. And so heavily inspired by, like, Buddhist and Asian culture. We got to

look at his bookshelf. We got to look at all this stuff, which is really cool. do you recall any of the remote viewing sessions that he had or like stories he had related to remote viewing? Yeah, I mean the big one was, and this was after he, we were talking for like an hour and a half already. And, you know, he's telling me normal stories that were very believable. And then, you know, at this point, I'm like, I'm in, you know. I trust this guy. I have a good feeling. Like, I can't imagine this guy is making any of this up for that.

He's not able to do what he's talking about. And then he loads us with this remote viewing session he did where he viewed Mars a million years ago. And, you know, it's, you think, okay, well, I just believed everything he said. So I probably have to believe this too. Yeah. You know. And you talk about on your other podcast a little bit if you want to say what you saw. Yeah.

I also, there is a video or there will be a video out on it that I'm making individually on this channel. I don't know if, yeah, but this is it here, the Mars exploration. Oh, yeah. And what's interesting about this is like Nelson mentioned, he showed us sessions that were highly accurate. Actually, before we get into this one, let's talk about the session where we followed the agent. Oh, yeah, okay. He was tasked to find the location of an agent for one of these intelligence agencies. And the agent would be at three different locations.

And I mean, it is, okay, maybe let's back, let's back even further. When Joe was entered into this project, let's talk about this. He had to do a test right off the bat. Oh, right. Six, five remote viewing sessions. He scored a one out of four. That's how they measure it. They have one, two, three, four, four being nothing, three being maybe, two being okay.

Pretty close. Pretty close, like you're in the vicinity, one being dead on. Yeah, yeah. And so most of the times you'd find it between the two and four range. Joe scored four number ones. They'd never seen it to this day and never seen anything like it. Yeah, yeah. And you have to understand what that means is that these physicists are testing,

these scientists are testing Joe, and they make no distinction between what Joe is seeing and what the target is. Right. That is the number one. Yeah. It is not, oh, yeah, it's kind of, it is one for one. that is remarkable. After Joe did that, he tanked. Yeah, he had like what?

20 to 30. Yeah, sessions that were just terrible. He was even beaten up on himself and everything else. Until he had this other session where he got this headache and this loud sound and then it was an alarm and he got right back into it. So it's something about confidence too that speaks in. He wrote a whole paper about that. But then they had that. And to jump back to Ed during this time, Ed was tacked.

I think with other people in creating a team of scientists who would study, who would actively try and disprove this. There were a dozen of them. And these are people, highest researchers in their field in physics and all of this, right? They're really, really smart people who had to come up with a protocol. And that protocol was like, hey, you have to do this under these conditions or else we can't measure it. And they did that. And they, you know, continued studying it for two decades because it was so riveting.

He even had people come in and try and disprove it. And he said, hey, if you can disprove it, the guy, one guy, like one of the smartest geniuses that this guy knows, like a Nobel winner or whatever, he goes, you know, I think this is all bullshit. And he's like, I know. He's like, all right, I'm going to study this. I'm going to look into it for like a year. and if and then Ed May says if you

convince these other 12 people that this is bullshit I will retire happily and I will work for you we will study whatever you're working and he goes okay and he's like no no that's not all if you work with these 12 people

for the next year and find that there's something to this you got to work on this project and he's like deal to this day the guy works on this project oh he does okay So really interesting little tidbit of information.

But it just shows you the absolute rigor that these, and this has to be emphasized. This isn't up in the air. This isn't us sitting at our desk doing a little session. This is like closed room, double blind. We're going to look hard and long at these sessions. And they even had a structure for what was really interesting. They called it a fuzzy set and a clear set. Oh, okay.

And so a clear set would be if you were to name all the countries that had a million or more people, all the cities that had a million or more people, you could name those. But then you're discluding all the ones that might be one short. Yeah. Because it wouldn't be a clear set if they were one short. And so there has to be a way of measuring that too. That's what they call a fuzzy set. And so they had to figure out a way of measuring the intangible or measuring, you know, the subjective. and the way they did that was the monitor would then ask the remote viewer and look at the drawing, let's say,

and he would say, what portion of the drawing is a building? Okay. What percentage of the drawing is a building? And how accurate is this to a building? So if it was this with Windows, it might be 80%. Okay. But if it was just this, it's like 20, 30%. Okay.

Right? So they would have, they would be tasked, the monitor would have to be tasked on describing everything and going through it and being like, is this, this. That's a lot more rigorous than I, I would imagine. Exactly. And then they would have a number. 70% it was this. And then they would measure that up against the target itself. Okay. And even like what portion of the paper does it occupy and like things like that. Cool. So very rigorous and very, very much they wanted to actively disprove it. That was their job. so that they could continue their research. You know, and you don't want to be a scientist,

a physicist pretending. Right. What the fuck is that for 20 years? Right. Can you imagine having a doctorate at Harvard or whatever, winning a Nobel Prize or whatever it is and being, and just like turning a blind eye and being biased?

Like, what the fuck is that? Yeah. I mean, on one level, I can understand maybe in academia, you know, you've studied something for so long. It's going to be hard to shift those people. to shift your worldview. You know, you might stand by your results. Yeah, but these are, these are people who were skeptic.

They had to be skeptic and they had to have an open mind. So those are the two factors that they had to have. Well, I was gonna say, ultimately, for me, when I, the reason I studied physics was because I wanted definite answers about the world in a very scientific way. So as a physicist, I feel like that's what you're after is, is the right answer. And, you know, the evidence and the way you study it is gonna be what you base those.

But somebody who's got a degree, let's say psychology. You know, it could be argued that the last thing they want to do is going to parapsychology because it feels, it sounds a little,

yeah, you know, a giggle factor. Yeah, you know, but it's, there, I think one person who, I'd have to go back

in the interview, but somebody who studied this parapsychology the most was actually at the head of the psychology institute in England or whatever it was. And so like very credible people

in psychology world studying parapsychology. because there is something there. Yeah. Okay, so we get through all this. It's clear as day that Joe McMonagall has absolute talent and a gift. He's then asked to follow these three agents and describe their whereabouts. And the agent, the descriptors and the drawings are fucking crazy, accurate.

The first one, he's seeing this. he doesn't even know how to describe it because it's so complex, and it happens to be a, what do you call it, a collider or an accelerator? A particle accelerator. And so he just literally says particle accelerator. Because it was so complicated. Yeah, that's how accurate this guy is.

Secondly, he says he's in a field somewhere. There's a lot of hills and there's a wind turbines in some type of valley. And the third one, he's in a T-shaped building at the very top floor with his feet up on the desk and we'll call it the a building he says and so they get the first result back he was indeed in the Stanford um science vicinity in a particle accelerator in the room of a particle accelerator so dead fucking on second one and we have a session uh second one he was in fact in

the middle of the field, a bunch of wind turbines in Northern California, Southern California, one of those. And the third, he was in a T-shaped building and the top floor with his feet on the desk and this building was called the A building. And these are, this is fucking insane to be. You know, and a lot of that has to do, which he said again was like the production of energy, which makes it come through stronger. Again, that entropy. So like the windmills and the generator. Yeah. And so that. And so we see the evidence of that.

We see the, I've spoken to Ed who confirms this, Ed May, and we see his sessions. So we know that this is evidence. This is credible evidence. Now we talks about Mars. Right. That's where we get fucked up. Yeah. And it's, I mean, he was the first to say that this is, you can't verify it.

And he hates those targets. I like that about Joe that he said that. He doesn't like to do this word. Ed, that's all he did. That's all he does. He's like, where's the Holy Grail? Yeah, exactly. I'm going to find it.

So that was interesting that he felt that way. But yeah, basically he's talking about how he was seeing these pyramids. Again, he's double blind. He doesn't know that he's seeing Mars a million years ago. Pyramids with these 10-foot-tall beings. It looked like us. They're inside the pyramids preparing for something, right? to leave or something like that.

They're in a hibernation chamber is what he called it so that they can sort of weather out it's almost like shelter you from the storm and waiting on someone to return. So they're kind of like biding their time because their planet is dying.

That is like the feeling you got. He even said the sun looked weird. Yeah, yeah, right. And then the monitor who was possibly at this point was like, don't, oh no, it was Bob Monroe. it was Bob Monroe because Bob Monroe

was the Department of Defense DOD that had a target that brought it to Bob Monroe folded it, put it in his pocket. Bob Monroe did not see this and Ed was in one of these pods getting rest after one of these long sessions that he was doing

like a remote viewing you know in astral projection all this and then so he's in this state of you know here or there and then he, you know, sees the target. And it's, again, he's, this is double blind. So Bob doesn't know, Ed doesn't know what the target is. Or Bob doesn't know and Joe doesn't know.

Right. And he's, all he's given is geographical coordinates. Now, one would assume that geographical coordinates would be on Earth. And I'm sure that's what he is. He didn't assume otherwise. Right. There's no reason for him to assume otherwise. He has this, uh,

He's given the coordinates. There's a set of coordinates, maybe five or six. And one at a time he's asked to describe. And I have the transcript here, which I pulled off the CIA website, which are declassified right now. What's really crazy is that it's really hard to find things on that website. Is it? Yeah. Everything's, and this is what Joe said.

Joe said they would, he's like, oh, you want all the information perfect. And they'd scramble all the papers. And it'd be like, yeah, it's disseminated now, but good luck. You figure it out. Fucking putting it together. And so it says here, method of site acquisition, sealed envelope

coupled with geographic coordinates. The sealed envelope was given to the subject immediately prior to the interview. The envelope was not opened until after the interview in the envelope was a three by five card with the following information,

the planet Mars, time of interest approximately one million years BC. Selected geographic coordinates provided by the parties requesting the information were verbally given to the subject during the interview.

This is crazy that that's, Like, this is a real. This is the real session. Real session. Yeah, given by Bob Monroe. And it doesn't say who. So when I read this online, which, I mean, you know, you find this online, you're like, this is really interesting and some TikTok video talking about it.

But then there's no way of knowing who did this session. And I think Joe mentioned in his book. And I was like, wait, that's Joe. And it just gave more credence to it in my mind. And so, you know, go watch that video if it's up about that. But he explains, yeah, these hibernation chambers and these beings and the sun being weird and these giant pyramids.

He's saying you could fit three of the Giza pyramids inside. Right, massive ones. Which is so crazy. And he kept wondering, he was like, is this new discovery, he kept saying. Yeah, he couldn't understand how this was actually being, yeah. Where was this on earth?

Yeah. And it's funny because at the end of, This session two, it talks about them getting into a giant metallic ship, going to another place, which has different vegetation and all of this, and you assume it's Earth. Because, wow. Joe doesn't talk about that in our interview. He kind of like, because I think his memory's a little hazy on it.

He recalled what he could. But it was just so fascinating to hear that because once he saw this, he was like, what the, yeah, yeah. Like, that is crazy. Yeah. And his drawings and everything. Like, I mean, the drawings are, again, you. Detail.

this could have been a soccer field right right yeah yeah it could have been anything you know and for him to be like the sun looks weird oh there's like these beings and we're talking about Mars dude come on yeah come on

and you see the I don't know how I didn't quite understand this the photos he showed us of actual Mars surface where there was some object that looked like a pyramid yeah was that so he does this session

and then they go grab him if you want to keep talking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So basically there's a, yeah, these are actual, if you all remember, I think it was in the early 2000s, there was this famous face on Mars photo. And it looked like somebody's face on the surface, right? And then I think later on, NASA gave other pictures that said, hey, it's not actually

a face. If you look at this angle, it looks nothing like it. It was just the way it was taken. Yeah, they did have different angles. But there was some question about whether that was doctored or something, right? Yeah. Yeah. His book, by the way, Stargate Chronicles, Memoirs of a Psychic Spy,

highly encourage you to check it out or on Audible. So my question was, were these photos part of the session? No. Was the target that he was given tied to that photo, or not necessarily? They found that after? Him being a spy took these coordinates and went straight to NASA. Oh, okay. And said, I want these photos of my.

Mars with these coordinates. Okay. And he was given those photos. So the coordinates are there. This is what he remote viewed. Yeah, okay. So he was remote viewing the, the location and place that they told them. But there, there's actual photos of that place.

Yes. So these are. And what are these from, like 2004 or something? No, this was, this was way earlier, actually. Well, no, these satellite images. Oh, the satellite images. Oh, the satellite images. They're fairly recent.

I mean, last like 20 years. Maybe. I'd have to look into it. That's a good question. I don't know. I don't want to say anything because I don't know. So this is like his drawings. Yeah.

Which, again, you look at that. Yeah, yeah. I wonder why he collated them. It's like... This is for his book. Oh, okay. He gave those copies? Yeah.

He's going to give us like a photocopy. I know. And then the beings here, like these drawing for size of actual human versus this other 10 foot tall being. Look at these structures. He said this was a collapsed building. And you look at here, there's like even like canals. And this, this, this, this, this, this lengthy structure here.

Yeah. More structures here. This is kind of what he was seeing here. Yeah. And this. If you look at this and this, look at those two. Right, right, right. Yeah.

That's crazy. And on that one pyramid photo, the shadow is. Yeah. We'll look at that one next. I think which is this one here. Which is that. But then we have this one, this notable one, which is very notable because you can see that there is this giant crater. And beside it is this mountain, which arguably could be a pyramid.

He asked the NASA guy, he's like anything, first of all, he's like, how deep is that crater by the shadow? And he says about 3,000 feet. Oh, right, you can see the shadow over that. Yeah. And so by measuring that 3,000 feet and now looking at the shadow, which goes off page, by the way, of this other pyramid, which is like

could measure like up to two inches, you have to assume this is a massive structure. Massive structure. He even asked, he's like, how big is that? And the guy goes really big. And then Joe, I keep saying Ed, I'm getting mixed up. Joe says that's an impact crater.

anything that would have impacted that would have destroyed any structure beside it true yeah and so he goes what is it and the guy NASA goes it must have grown and that was his answer built

yeah yeah and then obviously the the faces of Mars where's that one is that the one that's this one here yeah the top here yeah yeah you got that mask looking thing with the shadow cross it So really, really cool stuff.

Here, by the way, is he was, so I was shown the photograph of an individual and told that he's currently working on a technical site somewhere in the continental United States. I was asked to describe what he was working on. So this is subsequent to visualizing the agent's location. And now they're like, well, what is the agent working on? And this is, I mean, have a look at it for yourself, dude. Yeah, it's wild. Yeah. I remember looking at this and being

One of the things about Joe is like he's an artist Oh that's true yeah So his sketches are so detailed Like they make our sketches look like Yeah like more children Like we have mental Yeah absolutely 100%

But I just like how do you come I don't know how you get to a place where you can draw Such specifics And like you said don't scribble anything out And there's no like question mark maybe No it's like racing it's just first go And if you look at some of the some of the things he has here, like he has this beam going out,

and he says a wavefront emitter. Literally a beam with a wavefront emitter, sensitive to more specific elements of wavefront effects, and then measurements, shockwaves, it measures shockwaves, velocities, heat, and that type of thing. So it's this like this big cone that is like an emitter, and it's made to measure things

and that's exactly what it was. Yeah, that's wild. It's exactly what it was. You hear some kind of gun. Yeah. And this is what it, like I mean, come on, man. But I haven't, out of all the remote viewing stuff I've read and seen,

I've never seen anything like his. Yeah. So I think he is a special case. I do. Like you said, there's like four or five of them there like this that are at this level. Yeah. But I don't think that that means that nobody else can do it. I think we all.

That's true. Because what did he say? He said he was, like, right, 80% of the time? Is that what he said? Yeah, 80% accurate. And I think what he meant by that was 80, like when he's right. Uh-huh. He's 80% accurate.

His information is, like, 80% there. Yeah. But what Ed May said, the chief scientist, he said that, because he showed me two sessions. One from Joe and one from a lady. I want to say her last name is Ford. I don't remember her first name. Nancy Ford? Nancy Ford.

She was extremely gifted as well. And show me one of their most memorable sessions each, and they were just crazy. They had Joe sort of, what they do is really interesting. They cut these ping pong balls in half. Put them on your eyes. Okay. And shine a bright red light. Oh, yes, I've heard about this.

Yeah. And static in your ears, like a low kind of static. What's the name of this that's an effect, right? Yeah, I don't know what the name of it is, but I know that what he said is that eventually you just see black and you don't hear the sound because our brains are wired to detect change. And so when something is sort of,

because there's humming and buzzing all around us all the time, but kind of tune it out. Same with your vision and same with touch and every other sense. If there's no change and it's sort of consistent, you just get used to it. Once you hit that state, that's when you're kind of in between.

So he would tell Joe... In between what? In between awake and asleep. Okay, yeah, yeah. He would tell Joe, look to your left and right shoulder like this. And they would be measuring his brain activity. And his brain activity, it would show that he's doing this.

But in reality, he's doing this. Right? Yeah. And so he's like, all right, got it. You know, he's doing this. And they said, Joe, we, we were. want you to get out of your body, go into the next room. In the next room, we put an envelope on the wall. I want you open that envelope, look in the envelope, and just draw what you see.

He's like, all right. And he goes, you know, for the life of me, I can't find the envelope. So instead, kind of like Dorothy, click my heels, and I want to be where the photographer was when he took this photo. And he ends up doing that and describing an image. And it is. It is one for one. It is a, this field, he even writes, uh, the Rockies, which it was in, uh, a little barn or a house, path, trees, mountains in the back and it was like one for one. Wow. Yeah. So it was the Rockies? Yep. Yep. Oh, okay. Yeah. He said Rockies are Alps. Okay. But it was a Rockies. Um, you know, so, so through through a different method, but seeing this, but, you know, just, again, seeing that. And then I was like, how many of these sessions are, you know,

are this accurate with these specific people. And he said 20%. Interesting. Which is insane when you think about it. Yeah. One in five? Yeah. Well, with that amount of accurate.

Five and 20, that it's a dead on match. Yeah. Is worthy of looking into. For sure. Because the, again, the P value of that must be insane. You know, he could have drawn anything. Yeah. And he was that accurate.

And again, it wasn't like he didn't draw a big barn, a couple trees around and mountains the background. It was literally to scale. You know, when they're right, they're right. They're like dead on. Crazy. Really, really intriguing stuff for sure. I do want to, I,

how are I don't know? All right, we still got a bit more time. Okay. What we're going to do is, I do want to save a story for the Patreon. Yeah, yeah. You know the story I'm talking about.

All right, we can get into that. It involves... Juicy. It involves aliens and involves UFOs, and it has to do with remote viewing. And we can talk about all that stuff in the Patreon. But I think we're going to call it here for our first episode of debriefed. Dude, so honored to have you on. Honor to be a part of this journey with you.

That was an awesome... I'm so glad that I was on the bob and mentioned remote viewing almost as a joke in passing because I thought you'd be interested about it and realize it would lead to this rabbit hole. Yeah. And I think we're not done with this. No, it's an ongoing quest. I think we're at a high and we're still trying to explore. Yeah.

Definitely check out his video that he's got coming up or it's out already about remote viewing and his experience and everything. I look forward to seeing it and hearing your thoughts as someone who's, you know, studied physics who's just, you know, grounded. It's just so nice. I'm extremely skeptical of

everything. I'll let you know. How of the time to mention that at the end of the podcast. Yeah, right. I should have started with that. I mean, I think they assume that, you know, they're not, they're not here if they're skeptical, put it that way. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. But anyways, thanks for having me on the show. Thanks for, thanks for being here, Nelson. Guys, don't forget to subscribe. Check out of Patreon. The Patreon, you know, I'm putting a lot of stuff out there. I've got already, I think, in the moment, probably a dozen videos. And you get access to the secret discord as well where we talk all about these things and share.

you know inside information behind the scene stuff so i do appreciate you guys hanging out and uh we'll see you on the next debriefed peace