AREA52 - DEBRIEFED With Chris Ramsay - The Crazy Story That Made Him Quit Investigating UFOs - Luigi Vendittelli | DEBRIEFED ep. 91Luigi Vendittelli | DEBRIEFED ep. 91

Episode Date: June 5, 2026

Tickets To Live Show: https://itsprobablynothing.com/AREA 52 Shop: https://www.area52.shopPatreon Exclusive Content: https://www.patreon.com/Area52investigationsSponsor: Our listeners get the Harry’s Plus Trial Set for only $10 at https://harrys.com/AREA52 #harryspod WANA: https://www.wearenotalone.com/Luigi Vendittelli, director of the hit documentary S4: The Bob Lazar Story, returns for one of the wildest conversations we've ever had on the show.From his days as the youngest MUFON investigator in the world to directing the highest audience-rated Bob Lazar film ever, Luigi has seen it all. In this episode, he finally opens up about the deeply strange cases that ultimately made him step away from UFO investigations — stories involving police officers, alleged reincarnations, Vatican secrets, and classified government briefings that connect Jesus, Mary Magdalene, and extraterrestrials.This is not your typical UFO talk.Expect mind-bending accounts of a little girl believed to be the daughter of Jesus and Mary Magdalene, prophetic dreams, mysterious disappearances, and what Bob Lazar was allegedly shown in those religion files at S4. Some of these stories get very strange.

I don't think I'm going to say all of it because there's some stuff that is really crazy. If you and I were starting to go do talks and we start talking about Jesus and aliens in the same talk, we're going to go from here to here real fast. You know, tying this back to Bob Lazare, there's also a Jesus connection there. It's crazy, exactly. Which is wild. Which is, you know, blue documents. He read that Jesus was some type of hybrid.

And there was a vial in there this thick on religion. The way it was written, because he remembered how Bob said that it was. written. It says, the Christian God, as you know him, doesn't exist. The police officer was there telling me that I had to go meet with a woman because there's a little girl there that's her daughter that is not from here. She gets in the car and she says to me, I was taken up in a ship one time and they introduced me to a little girl. She said, tonight at 11-11, a craft will fly over this house. It appeared out of nowhere and flew right over the house. I had tears in my eyes and just looks at me super calm and says, I am likely to be the reincarnation of the daughter of Mary Magdalene

and Jesus. I had an experience when I was a kid back in June 22, 1980. And I remember the day because it was right after the release of the Empire Strikes Back. And the kids and I were all, we were young kids standing in Anchorage, Alaska, up near Elmendorf Air Force Base. And all of a sudden a large floating object came floating in over the downtown Anchorage area. Everybody in the city could definitely see it. And the weird thing about it is when it came in, all of the wires were on the fencing and the telephone poles and stuff started. vibrating. And we all turned and looked at it. And it was just sitting over the city. And it was the size of a, like a super dome. It was massive. And it had multiple lights in the middle, like two

domes, one on top, split in half, and one on the bottom, glowing orange, and then colored lights in the middle. And then two jets took off from Emondor for Air Force Base, and it shot out over Cook Inlet and vanished instantly. And then the, you know, the next day, one of the kids couldn't talk to us because his dad was Air Force security, and he said that we made him see that, and then the parents and him moved. But it made the news that night, and I remember because it was a weatherman who moved to Portland, and he definitely was on the news, and they were making fun of him on the news that night because he had seen it also, and there was hundreds of phone calls complaining about it.

Congratulations. Thank you. Congratulations. S4, the Bobbazar story, full circle moment here. Crazy. You were here. You were one of our first guests. Not here, but here. Just in the other set. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

One of our first guests in the podcast ever came back. We did the whole deep dive. That's right. As you were making S4, the Bob was our story. And, you know, that's where we got to sort of hang out. I got to see your spot and all this stuff. And here you are. It's now May.

The movie's out. It's been out. it's been widely well received. I mean, you were on Rogan, crushing it. Everything about this movie is amazing. And then you go on Rotten Tomatoes, and you've got like the highest rating I've ever seen on Rotten Tomatoes by audience.

It's insane. It's crazy. How does this feel? It feels surreal. That's the only way I could say. It just feels surreal. It feels great to be here with you, by the way, because for me, it's like, for me, it's been a journey.

It's a life journey for me, right? And so when I was coming here today, I was like, I got to say something to Chris, because if I have to pull, if I have to look back at this in my life in memory one day and be like, oh, I did that, you know, I have to also appreciate, there was a lot of ups and downs, but you were part of that up in the process. You got into, you came into our project in 2023. I got to meet you in 2023. You reached out on Instagram and I got to meet you. when you came to the office at the first time and we were showing you some of the VR stuff. And I remember that. And I was going through a really rough time at that time. So I remember that very, very, like specifically. And I look back at those videos and I'm like, wow, it's so much stuff happened.

So much stuff happened. And I got to say, your friendship is possibly up there with like, so when I say, what's the, ups out of all this journey, well, you're right up there as a friend. And I have to say that. I appreciate it. If there's, if there's one thing that I have to say and my whole team says, and my mom says, is thank you, Chris Ramsey. Of course. It's my pleasure and I wouldn't have it any other way. I appreciate you and your team and your mother, Franca, if you're listening. She's the best. She is the best. She makes the best past pastries I've ever had. Well, I got to say, I got to say second best because my mom makes pastries and if she's listening to this,

she'll be really angry at that. Yeah, you're going to get in trouble. They should. They should. They should. I'd love to see them baking together. Yeah, my, my German mother, your Italian mother. You don't get better pastries in the world. We're real. That's like, we gotta do that. Yeah, yeah. I would think like some Swiss chocolate tier would be up there with them.

But yeah, it's been an amazing journey. I've, you know, we spoke every day pretty much. Oh, yeah. In the last like two, three years. Yeah. We've been speaking daily. I'm aware of a lot of the things that went on behind the scenes and the delays of this movie. The just all sorts of interference, we'll call it.

Yeah. And, you know, it's such a massive task to undertake, not only making a documentary, but the hoops and things you have to go through. It can really wear you down. Even outside of the UFO space. Oh, absolutely. Just making a film and having it go through these separate corporate entities, these, you know, you have to file things. You have to submit things. It takes so much time.

And that time, guess what? You're paying people. It's costing money. How much are you in, do you think, like conservatively in this project out of your own pocket? Two million. So $2 million out of your own pocket. Yeah. Because you had a, you have a business.

Yeah. where you, you know, did a whole bunch of stuff before this that had nothing to do with. Nothing to do with this for a long time. And I mean, it's been like a, for me, it's been an incredible return to school. Like, I went back to school. It, it's like, I'm 51. I just turned 51 three days ago. And I. Happy birthday. Thank you. I started this in 2021 and did not know what I was going to get myself into. I thought I was just going to make a model where I know what I'm doing. I would be able to make a model with my eyes closed and my hands tied behind my back and I'd still make a great model. But I didn't know what the hell I was doing in 3D and graphics and VFX and film and interviews and camera equipment and audio.

And I watch you put this together and I'm going like, I still have a lot to learn. And and people are saying I'm a filmmaker. I am not. I am an embryonic film making. I'm in the embryonic stage of filmmaking learning. Okay, so I'm still learning. I'm still very, very grounded. I know how to make. If I had to do it again, I would probably be able to shave off two years, okay, off the production. So if I had to do that again, I could certainly accelerate it. But I would have to have the technology that we have now to make two years happen faster. Yeah, yeah, because now with everything that's out there, I mean, this, movies like these are going to be easier and easier to make. Oh, absolutely. But undeniable. But one thing that you can't recreate. create, you know, is the time spent with Bob. Oh, yeah.

I mean, that's priceless. You know, that's, um, and Bob was here, you know, and he talked a little bit about his, you know, one of the reasons that he wanted to do this was the fear that he has, a real fear of not remembering this stuff. Yeah. It's, it's an insecurity he has. Um, and rightfully so, because, you know, it's one of the reasons why he is reluctant to talk about it because he knows that if he trips up anywhere on the story, that people will just focus there.

I think that fear comes from not because he can't remember. I think he, I don't even call it fear. I think it's PTSD. It's if he doesn't remember something, he knows it's going to be a wave of attacks that is just, you know, just because he didn't remember something. And so I think it's PTSD. So he worries. You know, he's like, wait, what are we talking about today? You know, today we're talking about the craft. Oh, okay. The hangar. Oh, okay. You know, like things like that, he remembered. But if I said, uh, how far do you think the doors were from the hill by the Papu's mountain range? She's like, okay, hold on. Uh, because he, he has to remember that, you know, if he wants to make that accurate. So there was, there was times where he was extremely comfortable,

and there were times where he was extremely uncomfortable because I don't know if I remember that. And then I started testing myself when it came to that. Because, you know, you eventually start everybody at everybody. If there's anything that people do when they attack the Balazar story, is he didn't remember it. He didn't say it like this and whatever. And I started pretending that I was Bob Lazar

and people would start asking me questions about my high school. Yeah. And so, exactly. You know, it's like, what was the color of your locker? Yeah, I don't remember. People are rightfully skeptical, but you also have to, with the same stroke, be a little bit forgiving for, you know, memory. Okay. I want to wrap up on Bob here for a second.

If you haven't watched us for the Bob Bazar story, you're living under a rock. Go watch it on Amazon or go to we are not alone.com. This is Luigi's brand new platform. We'll hope he'll be bringing not only behind the scenes, completely unedited. interviews and so many more things around the documentary that just came out, but also new stories or old stories that you haven't seen before. Movies from different production companies, different directors. It's a brand new venture. I think it's so great because it's kind of like the Netflix of like UFO stuff is what you're trying to create. I love the we are not alone.com.

I think it's a Wana. Yeah. It's a great, you know, brand. I think it's really great. And, you know, in this and age, it's getting harder and harder to sift through all of the archival stuff. I know there's a guy online that eyes on cinema. He does a really great job of just uploading everything. And everything he finds, right? And you find him. He's got a whole bunch of stuff. But for all the stuff that you can't find now, you're going to find a lot of that over on Juana. So definitely want to check it out. But I want to get past all that right now because I want to talk about something that the audience might not be clued in on. And the fact that you, sir,

were an investigator for Mufon. I was. For a very long time. You were the youngest, and we've mentioned this on the podcast, you know, that probably got a lot less views back in the day when we were starting this channel out.

But you were like the youngest Mufon member. Yeah. Talk to me about it. That was back in 19. I still struggled to know if it was 1987 or 88. I do think it was 87 because I remember Gulf Breeze was 87. So I remember it specifically because of that

because it was an active case when I became a member of Mufon. At the time I went to Plathburg, New York with my mom, my grandmother, my sister. We used to go there from Montreal to go shopping. And it was the first time I found anything about like flying saucers, like any printed material on UFOs. I didn't find anything in Montreal.

So I freaked out. I was like, oh my God, there's UFO stuff. and it was Mufon. And it was a, you know, become a member application, of course. It was you have to manually fill it out, put a stamp, send it out, and it was in Texas. And then I remember receiving in the mail. I was looking out for it all the time. Every time the mail came home, I was like, do I have any mail?

My mom's like, what the hell are you doing? What could you possibly be expecting in the mail? Yeah, exactly, right? So I remember. How old were you again? 12 or 13, something like that. And I remember the letter. I still have it somewhere.

and it had a letter with the card. It's like a little card. And at the time, I didn't know. It says, what's your specialty in my application? The only thing I could think of that would be pertinent to that was I knew a lot about astronomy, although I was a kid. I was reading a lot about astronomy. So I wrote astronomy on the application.

So the card comes in and it's my name and it says specialty astronomy. And then, you know, I'm a member. and it was signed by Walt Andres, and they had a letter. And then the letter, which Walt Andres was the director, says you are officially the youngest member of Mufon in the world. And I was like, it, it, it intimidated me because I was like, oh, no, what did I get myself into? Now you have a job. Yeah, like, what do I have to do now? Because then I'm like, do I really know enough about astronomy? Yeah. Of course not. You know what I mean? So I was like, what am I going to do? So it made me hurry up and read more.

The Mufon journals and the, they, they would send out stuff in the mail. I, I still have all those. The symposium stuff. Yeah, the symposium stuff.

And I, I still have all that stuff. And I was reading. I was, and then in those magazines or in those printed materials, you would find ways to go get other printed materials,

like other companies or other magazines. So then I started buying that stuff. And whatever money I had I spent on that stuff when I was a kid. So my mom would always come in my room in summer. I was always reading about astronomy because I thought it was going to help and UFOs. And she thought, like, just go outside and play. You know, and I was like, I did. I still got to learn this because it was summer. I didn't have homework. So I could just spend all my time on that. And I was a complete geek. So that was my life.

and eventually got to a point where I became very familiar with a lot of cases. I bought a lot of books. In fact, you have a lot of books here that I remember reading that I can't find anymore. So I must have lost them throughout the years. But the Aztec book, the Socorro stuff, the obviously Braswell. Billy Myers stuff, actually, I only read. Recently? No, yeah, I read recently.

But the Billy Meyer stuff I had heard of through Jacques Valet. I remember because he was debunking. it. So I remember reading about Billy Meyer through Jacques Valet because I had some Jacques Valet stuff as well. And they were just, there was no pictures in these books, man. It was a lot of text and the Gulf Breeze case, right? And so I was reading a lot. I was really trying to read as much as I could because I thought one day they're going to call me. And my head is one day they're going to call me and they'll lead me and I need to. They're going to call upon my services as the astronomer. Because I was completely oblige.

to the fact that all I am is a member. Yeah. Right. But I made it into like I have a responsibility. Of course. You know what I mean? So, and I did that. And then eventually, uh, I mean, years went by and I went from love.

I, I've always loved the topic, but I started hating the topic not because of it, but because of the way people were treating me because of it. So you have to remember, this is late 80s, early 90s. and UFOs were super not cool. Laffable. Laffable, especially if you looked into crashes. UFOs were like, you have to also consider a lot of people would say, yeah, I saw something in the sky. It's different than if you say, yeah, the government has a crashed craft and they have alien bodies and they're...

Even today. Even today. So, you know, that was insane to a lot of people. And so I started realizing, I'm not getting popular because of this. There's a lot of people not wanting to hang out with me because I, or people, I remember a couple of friends of mine who did become friends of mine. But you know when you would bring new friends in your room? You know what I mean? And you want to show your friends like, oh, check out.

I got this baseball. You know, whatever. It was more like guys coming into my room going like, dude, what's with all the UFO books? You know, and like I had, I would go into magazines, cut out like a close encounter movie pictures, put them on the wall. and it's all alien stuff. Mine was like Jennifer Love Hewitt. Yeah. Well, I had limp biscuit.

Mine was like a lot of UFO shit. She was like Stanton Friedman. I was like completely into that. So they thought, what the fuck are you doing? You know what? And so for me, and then I had a telescope. So I tried to make the telescope cool. It would be like, I'll show you guys what this does at night.

You know, I would show them Jupiter or something. And they were like, oh, yeah, okay, that's. cool, but that's it. It wouldn't go beyond it. Even astronomy or space or the, you know, was not cool. Yeah. So I had to kind of choose who to say this to and it became more and more of a social problem. And I eventually had to start hiding. I was like a closet UFO lover because I was like, I couldn't tell people because it was always causing me problems. So I decided and I tell you this all the time. I'm like, it's so surreal that I live in a world now where we become friends because of the topic and we're not hated or not judge. Well, we are still judged,

but from different people or different reasons, but it's accepted. Yeah, there's a whole pocket of people that are incredibly accepting of this stuff. And the people that aren't are so busy doing other things now that they don't waste time being like, that stuff ain't real. They're just kind of like, well, I like this, you like that. Exactly. Okay. So be it. And you're not, I'm not getting the, the long, you know, analyzing me if I'm normal look from people anymore. Right. Which is a big deal. Yeah, like, when was your head injury? Well, most people would always, especially, you know, obviously if I talk about family friends or people that were closer, they would always worry, you know, like, oh, they would be like, so how are you? You know, how's everything? You're still looking into

that stuff. So it was never like, oh, it's interesting. It's more like, are you out of it? Yeah. Are you okay now? Yeah, are you okay? You know, yeah. So I remember when I started, it's hilarious, because I remember when I started stepping away publicly from it. And I say that because, again, I'm going to go back real fast. When I first started with Mufon, there was a Mufon Quebec group here. It was a Mufon group in Montreal. And I would go to it and I would, you know, want to find out what people are talking about. 99% of the people that were there were all white-haired people. Okay?

There was very few young people involved. Still now. Yeah. Still now. Absolutely. I mean, there's, uh, right.

Yeah. It's still, I don't think it's gotten any younger, but it's definitely seems that way if you listen to videos and watch, you know, but it's still majority and, you know, old white guy thing.

Yeah. It really, it really was and still is. Yeah. And so. I remember that one of the first things I've ever did that was like an, I call it my investigation because I was proud at that time is I wrote a letter to Ed Walters, the guy who took pictures of Gulf Breeze, the guy who had all those experiences in Gulf Breeze, Florida. And I never thought

that he was going to write me back, but I thought, let me try. And I had read his book and I had read all the information, the Mufon Journal, all that. And he wrote me back. And he sent me a videotape of him talking to me, a video of the actual craft in the air. And I got all excited because I'm like, oh, my God, again, excited and intimidated because I'm like, what if I have to present something now? I always thought that this was going to be like, am I ready for this type of thing? Yeah, imposter syndrome. Yeah.

So I ended up going to this Mufon thing one night. It was in Verdun, if I remember it in Montreal. And for anybody who knows, Verdun is like still Verdun. on. It's like in the middle of North. And I went out there. My dad drove me there. He walks in because he's not like, what are you doing? You know, like I had all this. I had the book. I had all these papers with me. And I was presenting on stage. How old were you? 13. You know what I mean? So I was super nervous. And I'm like, you know, my dad was there just for me to know that there was somebody there in case I just panicked. I could just go, go away. So I presented something on Gulf Breeze. And I remember people

impressed with the fact that I was so young doing that. And it gave me a boost that, oh, this is, this is like, I'm not being laughed at. There I wasn't being laughed at, right? So that was a big deal. But as soon as I left that, I was being laughed at in every other circle. Of course. So I decided to kind of step away publicly. I always kept very close to the topic. I would read about it, but not in front of girls or girlfriends or friends anymore because I took down all the weird pictures in my room and I started putting up like I had fighter jets and stuff like it make it. It was still related to the military, but it was cool, you know. And then from that, I started, uh, you know, really diving deeper. And didn't get, I wasn't investigating anything. I was just researching or reading about it,

updating myself, had to start having, you know, a normal life and, you know, got into college and got work and all that. And then eventually started wanting to get really back into it. Suddenly, it just was like, okay, it was still not cool, but I wanted to get back into it. Like, when I say get back into it is, I'm going to be talking about this. I'm going to tell people, I can't tonight because I have to go to do that or I'm doing this. And the stigma, everything came back. Like, everything was just again. I was like, geez, you know, like, it's not evolving. There's nothing good happening. No, during the 90s, too.

It was, it was, anytime you heard of an experiencer or a sighting, it was widely mocked in streamlined legacy media via talk shows. Absolutely. You know, whether it's Oprah or Ricky Lake or Mori Povic or Jenny Jones or, you know, you name it. You would always have these stories and it would be considered so fringe and out there, almost like a freak show. Yeah.

As how people were treated. And they were also called that, you know. It was really, you know, it's like one of these shows where they bring on, you know, the goth children. And then the parents who, you know, like, oh, my daughter's into Satanism and that type of stuff. Like, that's how it was all treated. So, and then in the newspaper wasn't mentioned at all. It was only mentioned in these sort of spoofy news, you know, media tabloid things. And let's not forget.

there were a lot of fake UFO sightings or fake cases, which added fuel to that fire. It was a lot easier back then, I think, to muddy the waters. And the National Inquirer, which was like the number one, you know, publication that you would see in some grocery stores, had pictures of Hillary Clinton holding an alien baby. Or bat boy. Yeah. So that just killed all credibility of anything that. that had to do with the topic. So I was always, like, I was always facing that. And it became really

annoying, but I stuck with it regardless. And I'm very glad I did, regardless of all the hate or the judgments and all that. And eventually got into the investigative parts of Mufon. So talk to me about that. How does one become an investigator at that time? So what's that like? Oh, didn't see you there. I was shaving. You want to know what's a insane? Buying razor blades. Follow me on this. You walk into the pharmacy and suddenly you're spending $40 because your razor cartridges are apparently handcrafted by NASA engineers. Meanwhile, the blade dulls immediately clogs halfway through your shave and your neck looks like you tried shaving with a cheese grater. That's why I switched to Harry's Plus. First thing I noticed,

this handle, solid metal, weighted, actually feels good in your hand. It's not cheap plastic. And the shave is just as smooth. The pivot follows your face naturally, and the blades are refined and honed at three different angles, so you don't get that awful tugging feeling. The spacing between helps prevent clogging, which honestly used to drive me insane, and now there's aloe and vitamin E in the strip, so your skin feels good after, which is important when you spend half your life in close-ups talking about UFOs. I could probably use a shave right about now, honestly, and maybe you could too. You can get the Harry's Plus trial set for just $10 at harries.com slash area 52.

You get the razor, a five-blade cartridge, shave gel, and a travel cover. If you don't love it, Harry's will make it right. Again, harries.com slash area 52 for the $10 trial set. Let them know we sent you. And it's important I highlight this because if you think about, you know, when you hear an investigator, right, you assume, oh, if somebody has the title of investigator, that means They have a lot of experience and that wasn't really the case at the very beginning or even now when it comes to some of the Mufon investigators because it's just like a month or two of learning. It's like a they call it a field guide or something like that. So you have to, you have to buy it or you would buy it at the time with Mufon to read through it, learn. It's really interesting information by the way. It's very good. It teaches you how to not, you know, the misidentifications of Venus or. or constellations or stars or the moon and looking at, you know, aircraft landing lights,

the horizon, how to measure height and altitude of things and really interesting stuff. And clearly how to go about an investigation if somebody see something, what not to ask them, how to ask them certain questions, to not lead them on. Excuse me. So I learned a lot. I did that and I did an exam. And you have to have, if I remember, correctly, you have to have like 80% or more in order for you to pass to become a field

investigator. So I passed. I had done the work. And a lot of the stuff I already kind of figured out prior. So I became an official field investigator. I remember when that happened to me, how I found that to be easy. And I remember that kind of bothered me. Disappointing you. Yeah. Because I was like, I don't feel like I have invest I'm not a field investor like I was already a field investigator but I never investigated anything in the field so I found that to be a little easy like the bar was too low yeah and that kind of threw me off a little bit but regardless I I still did what I had to do so I did start working in some and and you know when you become a field investigation investigator for mufon

In my case, Mufon Canada, because we're in Canada, you're essentially either going to be sent cases from the head office where they receive somebody calls in. There's a case. It happens to be in your territory. You're available. They've already vetted it. They send it to you. There's a system called CMS in that CMS system. There's all the information on that.

The person who called said, this happened to me. all right, you have to do a follow-up, you have to call that person and do all that. So I did that. And it was organized. It's well done. And basically started getting my feet wet in investigations, right? And it's well organized, yet very lax because everybody does this on their own time. Nobody is paid to do this.

It's all, it's all, how do you say that? benevolent. How do you say that in English? It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, that word. Why are we forgetting this word? Why are we forgetting it? So it's a really weird thing. It's when you just give your time.

What's that word? Hold on. I'm blanking. I'm blanking completely. It, it, people do this at the hospital. They, they, they, they. Everybody's going, that's the word. And we're forgetting that word.

Hold on. Yeah. It's like when you're, you're, you're, You're blanking here. What the hell? It's like when you are a, you're offering your services for free or you're volunteering. Volunteering. Okay.

So let's start that over again. Roll it back. Okay. So there's nobody getting paid for this, right? It's volunteer work. Right. So basically as a volunteer, if you're really interested, you put a lot of hours, but there's people that are volunteers that have families or whatever. So they're not always on time.

So it sometimes made it kind of a fragmented process in investigating a case if you're not in charge of the investigation. So it kind of made me want to make myself more pertinent to the organization. And I started becoming a little bit more aware of how it was being managed and how things were being done so that maybe I could kind of, a little bit of my experience in life and making it better and not just investigating UFOs, but also the logistical process and how we should go about it. Now, again, I'm speaking on some of my experiences. There are hundreds, if not thousands of Mufon organizations across the whole world now. It's become much bigger than it was when I joined. And there's, you know, regional offices

and they have all their investigators. And some of them are incredible. I mean, some of them doing unbelievable work. But then there's also the new investigators that come in, like I was at a certain point. And you have to also train them. Although they passed, it doesn't mean that they pass the logic test of when there's something going on. So a lot of, a lot of Mufon investigations turned out to be very conventional, non-extraterrestrial. What percentage? I would say 90 percent. Really? Yeah. If not more. So there's a lot of that. And I get that from just receiving, I'm sure you do as well, you know, videos and photos and cases.

I get sent things where to like 95 to all the way up to 99%. Yeah. I have an explanation. And this isn't me simply brushing something off. I'm not dismissing anything based on just a bias or anything. I'm literally going, oh, that's Starlink. Yeah. Or that is Venus.

Or that seems to be some, you know, when did this happen? Oh, July 4th. Oh, okay. Probably some Chinese lanterns or like, yeah. There's all these different, you know, drones now are a big problem for this as well as, you know, satellites, reentering of rockets and whatnot. But I think for me, the most difficult part in all of that is breaking that news to people because they don't want to hear it. And I understand that they don't because that was a canon event that changed how they feel. fundamentally about something. It might have sparked their interest in UFOs and now they

consider themselves to have had an experience. That's right. And if I go, well, that experience was a reentry of a 2013 rocket from China, they go, no, it wasn't. Yeah. Because that's not real to me, you know. And so I would have a hard time with that. How did you deal with that? That was exactly what I, well, first of all, I was personally trying to avoid that as an investigator. So first and foremost, there's, okay, well, there's two layers to it. First is, as an investigator, if the CMS system is sending me a case, obviously they've already vetted part of it. It got to me, I'm reaching out to the witness. The witness believes they saw something. If 99, or like you say, you're right, it's between 95 and 99% of time, I could explain it away

with something conventional. If I do that, I'm kind of like, making them feel like they're, they're illegitimate. That kind of sucks for them, but it's the reality, so I can't not do that. That was, for a long time, what was happening to me,

where I did, I did, by the way, get cases that were not illegitimate, but most of the time they were. But what happened after that is I became the national director for investigations of Mufon in Canada. So I was running all

investigations. Now what that means is I'm not running investigations where I'm dealing with the witnesses. I'm managing the investigators who are investigating the witnesses and the accounts. The investigators sometimes want to have a case. So you're not only dealing with having to tell the witness that was just Venus, but now you're also dealing with an investigator who just passed the field guide exam and you're telling them, no, that was just Venus. No, what do you mean? You know, they saw something. And it's like, no, they didn't. And so you're getting into that. And that's where I thought, wow, we really need a lot more training. And keep in mind, it is much better now because information is easier to get now. And, but I'm talking a few years back.

And it's still volunteer work. So there's like so much. you can ask people to go through. So I kind of was the party pooper in a lot of cases where a lot of times I'd be like, no, that's just that. Or, or, let's face it, to all the people who've seen a light in the sky and they believe that it was not terrestrial, do you have a picture of it? No. Do you have a video of it?

No. But it moved really radically? Yeah. Okay. Or they have a video of it. And they say it moved really radically right before the video. Yeah. Or right after the video.

Exactly. A lot of that. A lot of that. Which, again, could be. Could be. It's not what we're looking at. But what happens with that is if you're hearing about it, you know, like now, it's cool. But as a director, I was receiving like 30 a day.

So it gets to a point where you're just like, and I have a job, by the way, while I'm doing this. So it got to a point where it's like, yeah, okay, well, what can we do with this? Just mark it as unknown. and move on. I see. Yeah, but what if we, I should maybe go out on the field to do what?

What are you going to go do? Well, talk to the witness about what? What are you going to go do? You're going to go talk to a witness who's going to tell you they saw a light in the sky, and that's it?

Well, if you want to do that, you can, but it's not going to make that light in the sky turn into a landing, uh, an object with landing gear. It's going to,

nothing's going to happen. So, it gets to a point where it was getting really repetitive for me. And I was feeling that my experience in all of it, and I kind of squeezed every ounce of what I wanted out of all this. And I knew that I could contribute differently to the field. I didn't, and again, I am not dismissing Mufon. I am not dismissing all the field investigators. I think they're amazing that they even do this. Yeah, it just, There is, and I'm sure they feel that to a certain extent, what you're saying now. It's a reality.

But that's part of it. It's part of it. And some people can take that. And like, the redundancy would also kill me, I think, just of like, you know, and for every thousand cases that they are explainable, there might be a couple that are just mind-blowing. You do it because of those. Exactly. That's exactly why you do it.

And I did got, sorry, I did get to work on a couple of really amazing cases, which I, to this day considered to be as valid as any of the biggest cases that we've ever heard of, but they're just not popular because, you know, I want to get into some of those. Yeah, well, absolutely. This is where it gets juicy. Oh, there's some juicy ones. Oh, 100%. So, you know, between our friendship and the discussions we've had, you've shared so many, like,

really interesting cases and stories with me of, you know, personal friends who've become or people who have become friends over the years. and their encounters are make for just like the most compelling story. Oh, absolutely. Would you, would you want to talk about some of those? I mean, sure. I mean, it depends on which ones. There's a few.

Obviously, I've touched cases where it's only light in the sky all the way to a being in my house. So it goes really, there's a big, Would you be able to talking about like how you met like Sarah and Emily and like all that stuff? That's crazy stuff. It's so crazy. So there has to be like a caveat like a disclaimer. Yes.

Right? Please. Like while you're editing this, it's when Luigi does this. There's a big disclaimer. Yeah, this sounds schizo. Yeah. And that's actually, it's really interesting that we're going to touch this because what got me to take a step away from Mufon investigations,

daily UFO investigations, was monotony and repetitive stuff that I didn't really feel was, I wasn't contributing properly to the field. After that, I started working on cases that were worth investigating and cases and people that had, incredible things happened to them. That also started a journey for me that got me to meet a lot of amazing people. I got to work closely with some of the best. I was trained by David Jacobs for two years personally on alien abductions and alien encounters. David Jacobs is considered one of the best,

was considered one of the best in the field. He's no longer active, but definitely was. Worked long side, also with Don Dunderry for a little bit of time. I got to meet a lot of great people, and I learned a lot throughout the years. And I tried to apply my experience, all the years of learning about this phenomenon, which, by the way, the phenomenon has, it's multi-layered. It's not one thing, you know, it's many different things. And that got me to be curious, not no longer about the nuts and bolts, the light in the sky, or object I've seen, or whether it's triangular,

circular, a long, tick-tac shape, whatever the shapes are, it's an object in the sky. I believe they exist. I know they exist. I'm not going to use the word believe.

I know they exist. So there are objects that have been flying in the skies of the earth for many, many years, decades, if not centuries, or even millennia, who knows, that do not perform the same way our conventional

aircrafts perform, they outmaneuver anything we could possibly do. So there's no question. There is a nuts and bolts variable in there. I was interested, I got to a point where I was interested in, okay, there is a nuts and bolts reality here. Who's running them? That is the question that you have to ask. If you're not going to, you're not just going to go, oh, they're drones. Well, yeah, if they're drones, somebody's running the drone. It's who's flying them. So that got me super curious. And I guess that's, that's like the secondary rabbit hole. There's the first rabbit hole. And then there's the secondary rabbit hole is when who's, who's flying them. That's like, you know that slide at an aqua park

that you just go super fast and end up, you know, that's how. I remember because when I was 13, I took my first girlfriend to one of those parks and her top came off. And that was a, that was a canon event in my life, I will say. So I remember those slides very well. Yeah, so you know what I'm talking about. It was a big moment for me. Yeah. Not as big for her.

It was a very bad moment for her. Huge for me. Terrible for her. I can imagine. So that was the second rabbit hole. And that thing was deep and very scary because it no longer had. And all the, this is where I'm going to get into it. it. And again, it's like the disclaimer, I did not expect these things to happen. What I'm going to

report, what I'm going to tell you is all I was doing is reporting the facts that I'm getting or information that I'm getting. How it happened, why it happened, I have no idea. So it's one of those things where you just have to look back at this and say, and as I was investigating a lot of these really crazy cases, I would consult with David Jacobs, with Don Dunderry, both of which would always tell me, relax, take it, put it in a filing drawer, close it, don't overthink it, and move on. And I'd be like, but hold on, it's, we know, do that, because if you start overthinking, you're not going to find an answer, you're going to go crazy because it's crazy, and you also have to think maybe there's something else that you need to know or we need to know

that can make sense of it, and we haven't figured that out yet. So I always stayed very grounded, and I was trained by some of the most grounded people in the field. and that was something that I considered to be like the most important part of my training was always stay grounded. Do not jump to conclusions. Do not make this an unknown. Do not turn it into an extraterrestrial or interdimensional investigation.

Everything could be explained. way conventionally. So keep that as your primary directive, which is kind of a shitty thing when you're trying to investigate somebody who's actually lived something really out of the ordinary. And you're almost forcing conventional explanation because you don't want to fall into that rabbit hole. You want to test them. You want to also test them. And so I would be, I was always the one, I'm always, still am, but the one who, the one who, you know, who would be like, skeptical, open, but skeptical. And it piss a lot of people off, by the way,

because a lot of people who had, let's say, they're friends with somebody and they're there just to support them, would get angry at me for. Not believing. Yeah, or even raising skepticism a little bit. Yeah, which you had to do. I have to. Yeah.

Because otherwise, everything is insane. So I had an opportunity to meet with a police officer. This is a big story that I hope is going to get covered in great detail, hopefully through you. And I was actually, so here's how this all started. I was in Montreal. I got invited to a talk that Don Donderry was doing at Concordia University, sorry, at McGill University. in Montreal. And it was about flying saucers. And I thought, that I want to go see. I want to go see a professor of psychology at the University of McGill in Montreal talk about flying saucers at

McGill. I want to be there because this is a big deal. You're talking to a guy who was getting made fun of if you just said flying saucers, you know, so I went and I went with a friend of mine. And he, he still is a federal police officer for the RCMP. Came with me, I'll never forget. And he was, he was curious as well. So we're sitting there and we're watching Don talk. And there was a pause in the, in the talk. It was really interesting.

There's a lot of people. It was full room, full auditorium. And there's a pause. So we're all waiting. And I'm just sitting there. We're waiting. And this guy comes up to me and says, are you Luigi? And I was just like, yeah.

I found it to be so odd because I never met him. I don't know how he knew I was Luigi in this crowd. He came right at me. And so my friend is like wondering, you know, what hell is this all about? And he says, somebody with the Montreal Police Department would like to talk to you. That was a weird intro because now my friend who's a cop looking at me going, what did you do? And I'm like, I don't know what the fuck is going on. I said, okay, dude, what are you talking about?

So he says, I know this is weird. Here's my phone number, whatever. I want to talk to you. We need to talk. So I eventually entertain this because if the police wants to talk to me, I want to know why right away. And it was an officer from the SPVM, the Montreal Police Department, who had been the officer on the call for the... The Cavendish Mall signing in Montreal in 2010, which was, by the way, a very big siding. It was cited by multiple people in the middle of the night.

And he was the officer that was there. So I said, oh, I'm really interested. That's cool. I'd love to meet him. So we arranged to meet at this cafe in front of Concordia University in downtown Montreal. He showed up, dressed in his uniform. I was there. and he has an envelope with him and sits down with me.

He says, he was very, you know, wanted to make sure I was okay because he's like, first of all, who's this guy, you know, and he wants to find out if I'm a legitimate person to talk to. So he explains to me, he was the guy. And then he says, I have something else to share. I said, okay. He says, well, we have a witness who has a picture of one of these. and I thought, oh, a picture of a craft, you know, a picture of something. I said, okay, you know, I wasn't, again, I had seen so many that I was like, maybe he's excited

about it as one of those little dots on a, on a black picture. So he said, I said, you have a picture of a, of a craft. He goes, no, we have a picture of a being. And I thought, okay. Now, it's coming from a cop. It's not coming from anybody. So I was like, okay. And he said, we have multiple pictures and we cannot figure out what it is.

And we've, it's been in the, it's been in the drawer at the police station for three years. So basically, all right, I'm interested. I'm, what's it about? He says, I don't have them here, but I can share them with you, but you have to sign something that you're not going to distribute them. These are not, you're not allowed to distribute these. And I said, what does it look like? And I'll never forget, he goes, it's not a dog. And I'm like, okay, you know, because I mean, I don't know how you didn't, I don't think he knew how to express what this thing was. Yeah. And I said, okay, he goes, well, it's not a human being, but it's also not a dog.

And I thought, okay. And he goes, a strange way to describe. Yeah, that's the way he presented it. So I'm like, okay. So he finally sends me the, and so I had to sign something, he finally sends me the pictures. And he said, when you receive them, you'll need to call me because I'll need to explain them to you. So long story short, I got these pictures, a lot of them. Some of them show a Doberman King dog in the images.

That's not the dog. That's not the being. there is a Doberman dog in the event, but it's a woman in Montreal who was woken up in the middle of the night at around 1.15, 1.30 a.m. in an apartment building on the 14th floor, and her dog, the Doberman King, made a sound.

She woke up. There was a, they, her door frame to go into the hallway had been broken into a week prior because they had forgotten their keys in the apartment. So there was a tiny little gap where you can actually see from the interior of the apartment out in the hallway. So she goes out there. The dog is there and it's paralyzed in her living room or in her hallway.

And she thought the dog was having a stroke because it was completely immobile with ears up as if it's on alert, but it's like paralyzed. So she snaps pictures of the dog. But the dog is looking at the door. So she's thinking maybe there's somebody outside in the hallway. it's an apartment building. So she peaks in that little opening and she sees a shadow moving.

So she thought, oh shit, there's somebody there. And I guess to her, there shouldn't have been. So she grabs her cell phone and aligns her camera on the iPhone, but it's back in 2010, in January in 2010. So iPhones were not that good, by the way. So, you know, for everybody who are going to eventually see this, that this is not today's,

cameras. But you see it clearly anyway. She snaps multiple pictures of what she said was a a creature that was standing that was about three foot tall and very, very skinny with a big head and big black eyes and its arms were positioned like this, like a praying mantis or like a bird, I guess. And it freaked her out, obviously. So those pictures, when I got the explanation from the cop and I'm looking at them and I finally see it, it was the biggest, oh my God, moment that I had ever experienced in all the years that I have ever worked in this. I thought, if this is real, holy shit. That was a really interesting moment.

And there's five consecutive images that are really solid. And that was freaking. That freaked me out. So now fast forward a little bit of time. I got a call from, uh, did I get a call? Yeah, no, in the CMS. I'm, I'm Mufon at the time. I was actually still at Mufon.

Now I just remembered, I was still at Mufon. I get, it was somebody who had experienced an abduction. No, I wasn't at Mufan. They called me because I knew about abductions. And if somebody had something happened to them in abductions and they reached out to me. I get the phone number to call. There's a woman who is originally from Great Britain. She was living in Quebec.

Her name is Sarah. And she had been abducted. And she was living in Valdal, which is about eight hours north of here in the middle of nowhere. And I thought, what a weird scenario, woman from Great Britain here in Valdaul. So I read the case and I said, let me call. I didn't even want to make the call, but let me call. And this was right around the same time I'd received these pictures.

She sent, she, I call, her boyfriend answers the phone. I start talking with him. And he says, you know, she's very reluctant in talking about it. She's just scared, whatever. And he said on the call, there's one thing, though, that she doesn't want to talk about is because apparently one of these beings, the way its arms was positioned, looked like a praying mantis. And I remember thinking, oh, that's interesting. I just said that in my head. I didn't say, oh, yeah, that's, you know, I just said, yeah, that's interesting. And I said, okay, what else can she say about it? She said, well, he said, well, it was very skinny, big head, black eyes, and the arms were like this. And he said, and he said, said, let me email you her drawing. And so he emailed me her drawing while we're on the call, and I get the drawing. And the drawing was almost the same thing as what I saw in a picture.

I've seen the drawing on the picture. It's a, I mean, it's like it's a what the fuck is going. Yeah, you go, oh, okay. That's the same. It's the same thing. So that was a huge, so at that moment, he said, you're probably not going to believe this. She's saying you're not going to believe. And I said, actually, I find this very interesting, and I, and I, I, I, I, I, I, I'm interested in more. She immediately grabbed the phone and said, who is this man on the phone who believes me? I said, hi. She says, I'm, I'm Sarah. I'm the one who's, you know, been going through all this stuff.

And why did you say that? I said, well, I said, because I don't think that it's that crazy. I said, it's possible. So she, I guess, thought I was worth talking to because I wasn't immediately discrediting the possibility that this is a thing. Long story short, I got to meet her. I got to meet her about a month later. We communicated and I said, look, I'm oftentimes in the Laurentians north of Montreal because I'm investigating another case. and because she was in Val d'ar I was trying to see if we can meet.

I'm not going to say halfway. She had still, they still had a long road, but I wanted to try to get them to come a little less all the way. I didn't want them to come all the way to Montreal. It's a long drive. So she came with her boyfriend. It was in September. I don't remember exactly the date, but it was, I believe it was early September and August. I was there with a bunch of friends at that.

I'm really abbreviating the story, but on that day, I was with Benoit Mayer, who was a case I was investigating in northern Quebec of black triangular crafts. He had to take a picture and was on the front page of the newspaper. It was at his house. There was the cop who had introduced me to these pictures. There was other friends of mine that were there who wanted to, kind of expand on this, on this woman who had seen a creature that seemed like what was in that picture. The reason why the cop was interested is because I called him to say, there's a woman who's basically claimed, show me a drawing that matches. So he said, oh, I'm just curious to see if this is all hearsay. He actually came to, to see if it could just all be debunked really quickly.

Don, don, don, there he also came. Now, this woman, this is where it gets really crazy. This is where the story goes, oh, my God, the fuck are you talking about? So everybody's got to get ready. Disclaimer, disclaimer, okay? This happened. So she's explaining her story at the table. We're all there.

And she says a lot of things. I don't think I'm going to say all of it because for some stuff that is really crazy. Some stuff. I mean, I'm open to crazy. You did the disclaimer hands. Yeah, yeah. The disclaimer is out. It's out.

You gave us the disclaimer, the Luigi's disclaimer hands. It's disclaimer. So people, I don't, you know, I'm just relaying. Because this might be this crazy, the crazy details, I think are what some people out there will go, whoa. And they're going to make connections that we've never made before. That's where I think could be. So again, the disclaimer is out. I'm just relaying information, but it gets really serious after a while.

She shows us all these drawings she's made, and she says, I've been abducted since I was a little girl. I lived in England all my life. She said they would come in my room all the time when I was a little girl. They were tall. She called them tall white people. They were all dressed in white, very, very tall. She says they were almost tall to the ceiling of the room, and they were human looking, but extremely tall. And they were always in the room.

They were always there when she was a little girl. So she thought that was normal. Because that would happen to her all the time, she thought everybody has these tall people in their house. It's like a normal thing. Obviously, if that's all you're seeing, maybe it's normal. But at night, she would have these little beings, these guys, like these little grays.

She drew them that would come. and hurt her in her tummy, she said. To the point where she asked her mother, as a little girl, if her mother could sew buttons on the bottom of her shirt and make holes on the top of her pants so that she could button the sweater to her pants so that these beings couldn't access her tummy. That's the little girl's thinking of how to protect herself from them touching her there. And she says they would always hurt my stomach, like I was always getting,

pain in my tummy, which was the first time I'd ever heard of that, which I found interesting that she brought that up like that. And she says, my mom did that for me because she felt it made me sleep better because I would fall asleep knowing that I was protected, whatever, which is kind of a normal thing if a kid is scared of something. And, but they would always be there. And she said they came back many, many times. I don't know why. There was never an explanation. they would just appear in her room. She wouldn't remember what was going on, but she would remember being in pain in her stomach.

And this went on for years. Eventually, she moved away from Great Britain. She had, well, actually, she didn't move away. She was traveling a lot. She went to Cambodia. She went to Germany. She went to Israel. She traveled quite a bit.

And so again, disclaimer. You should have like an area 52 red light appear on this moment. So she went to Israel and walked all the way near the Palestinian border. This is going back like 2010, 2011, you know, and said that she wanted to cross over into Palestine. It was closed. There was all these soldiers there and all that stuff. And she said there was a man who showed up.

and this man said to her, she said he was kind of a younger guy who walked up to her. It's as if she said, it's as if no one saw him and said to her, her beauty is like a palm tree in the desert on a starry night, something like that. But it was like more poetic than that. and he finished it by saying Sarah Tamar, daughter of mine. And she found that to be very, very bizarre. She turned around to see if anybody was watching this and he was gone. And found that to be really weird. Because Sarah Tamar, daughter of mine.

She said he said it like I was his daughter. That was her name? Sarah is, no, Tamar is not her name. Like Sarah, yes, is her name. but tomorrow she didn't know what that hell that was. So I found that to be very interesting because she found it to be very interesting. So she's explaining all this to us

and we're all listening to this story. She's explaining that she had been abducted or had seen these beings, not abducted, but seen these beings all her life. And then this happened to her when she was a little older. She then proceeds to say to all of us, I will now start telling you things that will for sure make you think that I am not worthy of your belief or worthy of your trust. You will no longer believe me. And she said, there is some link to religion and these beings, something to do with Jesus and these. beings. Clearly I had heard that in the past. It wasn't new to me. To everybody else, it was very new and a very awkward moment because I could sense the room froze up and it kind of went from

interested to give me a fucking break. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, like we understand what type of person you are now. Exactly. And I understood, I thought I understood where this was headed and I was kind of disappointed myself, and I'm being very transparent here, as soon as people tell me stuff like that, whether it's possible or not, I tend to not go in that direction because I'm like, it's just, it's too ideological, it's too weird. Yeah, dogmatic. It's dogmatic. I don't want to touch it.

So she had warned us and then said that. And I thought, okay. And she looked at us, and I'll never forget it. She said, it's okay. I will make you believe it. No, no, sorry. She says, no, you will believe me if I do one thing. And we said, okay, what?

She says, tonight at 11-11, I know this is very, like, it's cheesy to say that for some people. It's like, oh, my God, 11-11. She said that. She said, tonight at 11-11, a craft will fly over this house. Now, when she said that, I knew it was over. I was like, that's it. She's, she's insane. You know, everybody's obviously, whatever.

So that kind of changed the whole vibe that day. Because everybody just kind of went like, whatever. Okay? And I'll admit, me too. I was just like, oof, this is going to be awkward tonight. Because we were, we were approached. It was, I think it was like 7 p.m. when she said it. And we were going to up about to all eat.

I remember Benoit was going to make a barbecue and then we were going to just hang out. And you have this elephant in the room. And now you have this, yeah, you have this moment where it's like, oh, God, like, now we have to keep talking. Yeah, Luigi invited us here. Yeah. And now we got this, like, religious person. Yeah. Like, it was getting weird and really weird.

Sure. And I, and I, for anybody listening, believe me, I, I was a. weirded out as everybody, and I was like, this is not going to go in the right direction. Regardless, that night, we finished eating. We're outside. In St. Adolph, it's beautiful. It's actually not too far from the, it's in the Laurentians, where the mountains are. It's a beautiful area.

So we're outside. The sky is beautiful. It's clear, starry night. And we're all talking. And there was this girl, Jenny there. Jenny's a friend of ours. Jenny is also a dancer for Cirque du Soleil. She's an incredible artist.

And she just came along to spend the day. And so she was just not at neither a believer or disbeliever. She was just like, I can't wait for 11-11. So she was the one who was keeping that going. Sarah wasn't even paying attention to it. I certainly was. Because I'm like, I got a kind of pop the bubble. Exactly.

And my friend Lisa was there. You've met Lisa. There's a whole story about Lisa. And so while we were waiting, it must have been like 10.50 p.m. like 10 to 11 in the night. Sarah says she looks at Lisa. And I know this is going to sound really corny to a lot of people, but this is again, disclaimer, this is I'm just reporting. She looks at Lisa and says, she looks at Lisa and says, and I know this is going to sound really corny to a lot of people, but this is again, disclaimer, this is I'm just reporting. She looks at Lisa and says, says she's O negative blood type, isn't she? And Lisa doesn't speak English. So Lisa looks and goes, what does she say? I said, you're, you're, I didn't, I didn't tell her your O negative. I said, do you know what your blood type is? And she goes, yeah, I'm O negative. And she said it in French. And I thought, okay. So basically, I said, I told Lisa, did you tell her that earlier? She's like, no, what a weird question. Like, she was like, why are you? you asking me about my blood type. So I said to Sarah, I said, yeah, yeah, she's, she's, she's, oh, negative. She goes, I knew that. And then she pointed out, who does she point to? It was another

person that was there. I can't remember. And she said, he's O negative as well. And that person knew English and said, yeah, I am. And it was just like, all right. And I said, who else is O negative here? and nobody was. And I thought, that was weird. You got to admit that's... That's an interesting parlor trick. As a magician, right?

I'm like, that's not something we were thinking of. Yeah, definitely. That's a very personal piece of information too. Yeah, and she, you know, it was like two for two. And then there's a... So then if we're outside, we're talking. And Jenny screams, guys, it's 1110.

So obviously, I got a little nervous because I'm like, ah, this is going to be so fucking awkward. And she was, Sarah was there, her boyfriend was there. She, it was getting cool. The era was getting colder. So she came close to me and linked my arm and got really close to me. It was actually awkward because her boyfriend is there. and I'm, I mean, there's no, why did she just do that, right?

But he didn't mind. But I, it was just like not something, not socially normal because she came very, like, she was really cuddling with me. You don't usually do that, you know, so I, I got her there and I'm looking and Jenny goes, it's 11, 11. So she screams because she was looking at the time. So we all look up, obviously. And I'm thinking, wow, not only is this going to be awkward, but she's next to me and she's being all cuddly.

So how am I going to break this to her? Yeah, be like, ah. Ah, you know, like you were wrong. Wrong time zone. And may God strike me dead, may the alien strike me dead, may the universe strike me dead. I am telling you the truth here. And we were nine people that night. we were all looking up and a craft appeared out of nowhere.

I swear to you, it did. It was a black craft that was like perfectly in our line of sight. It came into existence. It didn't come from the horizon. It appeared out of nowhere and flew right over the house. I swear to you. And I remember, I mean, I've done this for many years. I was completely, like, no words.

What kind of craft was this? It was black. It was, it, some, some of us said look like a triangle. I didn't see as a perfect triangle, but it was, it wasn't, it wasn't round. It did not have, um, like, it, it, It wasn't, it wasn't, what do you call that? Not a, like, a long, a cigar. Wasn't a cigar shape.

It wasn't a disc shape. It looked like an, like a, in between a black triangular craft and something that had, I would almost call it like, like, energetic features on its sides. So I couldn't tell if it was. its body or if it had something on its sides, but it had like a point to it. And it just went, and it had some orange light on it and it went right over us. And I'll never forget, Jenny, who was all excited, but also in shock, went like, oh my God. Like she was just like, that just happened. The cop who was there literally in French can

Canadian, so for the French people that are listening, went tabarnac, man. Like he freaked out. He goes, what the fuck was that? Like, it happened. And Sarah, she's right next to me and just looks at me super calm and says, aren't they funny? They got a sense of humor. So now, to me, is like, am I losing my mind? or did this just happen? And if this just happened, what is she talking about that they have a sense of humor?

What the hell is going on? So that was a big deal for me because I experienced it. Now, we were nine people who experienced it. So if it was just me and her, I would have a lot of trouble because I would say maybe she drugged me, but we were nine people. And to this day, if you rounded up all of us here at the on the skiff, and all of us would tell, they would all tell you the exact same story. So we were nine people. I mean, we fucking saw it, right? So that was a reality that happened. It wasn't something that was told to me. It wasn't something that I had to listen to as an investigator or through an investigator. I saw it.

She predicted it. She predicted it. At the exact moment, I mean, that's a, if it was absolute pure luck. No, I'm ruling that out right away. But I'm saying this because there's going to be some skeptics out there, you know, and I'll say, okay. Well, it doesn't explain for it appearing out of nowhere. No. Okay.

Now that's incredible. That's an incredible. That blew my mind. That's an incredible story. Yeah. But that's only the beginning. That was only the beginning. Strap in.

Yeah. Yeah. Now, this is where. Disclamers. Disclamers. This is where it goes from. red alert to full-on red bombs exploding to alert you, okay? So obviously I was like, what the hell is this?

And she, I'll never forget when we all said by to each other, she hugged me and she says, you still don't believe me, do you? I said, no, I'm not. She goes, it's okay. I understand that. And she was cool with it. She was very confident, by the way. she gets in the car, we leave, we all leave, and all of us kind of talked about it for the few days

that followed, be like, what the hell was that? Like, I mean, I saw it, I saw it, I saw it my own eyes. There's just no way that was a normal thing. I saw something that I cannot explain. I investigated UFOs for years. I don't know what that was. I can't describe it to you. I don't know what aircraft that was. It was a, a solid object that flew over us. And it did exactly what she said it was going to do at 11-11. Now, she calls me to say that she was moving back to England, that her and her boyfriend had not worked out, mostly because she had to go back to England

and he was not going to move there. So it wasn't like a bad breakup, but it was kind of like she's moving back to England. And I said, well, hey, that's interesting. I go, are you going to be flying out from the Montreal airport? Because she has to, the only way to go back to England. She goes, yeah. I said, well, why don't you come to my place for a day and I'll show you around Montreal.

We'll have a get-together with some of the people that you had met. She was like, that would be nice. So I did. So we did. So she comes to Montreal. And instead of staying one day, she decided to stay two days because of the, I remember, she took, I believe it was a bus that brought her to Montreal. So I got her at the Greyhound Station. And the timing of the bus to the timing of her flight, I said, why don't you just

come the day before. I have a guest room, stay in the guest room, whatever. That's what she did. The day she arrived, she's in my house, and she's a very interesting person. She sits there, and she's in the kitchen, and she's having tea, because she's from Great Britain, I made her tea, and she said, there's an energy of a cat in your house. And I don't have cats. And I said, well, I don't know why you say that. I never had a cat before. I never wanted a cat. I I'm allergic to cats. She says, no, there's an energy of a cat in this house. And I said, well, I'm sorry, Sarah, but there's no cats.

She goes, no, no, you're wrong. You're really wrong. And I said, no, I'm really not wrong. It was, by the way, it was October. So it was like about a month after. So she's insisting there's a cat energy in my house. And I'm, and I, again, thinking to myself, she's really pushing all my buttons.

Because it's like, one, she's saying, okay, I saw this thing. So it was a struggle between me being completely grounded, going, what the fuck is she talking about? And I saw this thing when she said it. So it's a struggle that was happening inside of me. And I was being very nice to her. And I said, all right, whatever, sure. And she looked at me, she goes, you still don't believe me, do you? She goes, you'll see.

And she's, again, very confident. And she says, where did that picture get taken, you know, of the creature? And I told her, I said, well, it's this building. Can you bring me there? Sure. Let's go. So we went there. She wanted to go there.

We go to the building. Now, it's just an apartment building. So there's nothing going on. There's no like, it's not like there's an alien portal in there. It's just an apartment building. There's nothing going on. It's boring. You're not going to see anything.

So we went all the way upstairs. We got in. We got to the 14th floor. We go to that apartment door. And she's just standing there. And she's like, yeah. She goes, this is where it happened. I said, yeah.

And that's it. Okay. Get back in the car. And as we're driving, I go in front of the St. Joseph's oratory in Montreal, which is a gigantic church. And it just happened to go there. And she looked at it and she goes,

oh, that's beautiful. I said, and I thought in my head, oh, that's a cool place to show her because we're right here, because she's never been in Montreal, and it's a beautiful view up there. I said, well, actually, you know what? Let me show you something. Because you could drive up there,

and then you get to see the whole city. It's a beautiful view. So I said, let's go look at the view. So I bring her up there, and she goes, let's go inside really fast. And now anybody who's ever been there, it's a ginormous church. The church is gigantic.

And as we walked in, She grabbed me again under my arm. And there was never any, like, oh, she wants to date me or any. It was never like that. She was just like that. And she holds on and she looks and she goes, that's how big it is inside the ships. That's how big they are. And I remember thinking, okay, that's interesting.

You know, but I didn't make much of it. We get to in front of the altar. Now, at the altar, there's a big, cross with Jesus crucified. It's made out of wood and there's the Holy Mary, there's Virgin Mary and there's Mary Magdalene. They're both praying, looking up. Okay.

I'm not a practicing Catholic, nor am I practicing Christian. I just went in there because it's a beautiful building. And so this is where Area 52 has to put a massive disclaimer. This is the biggest disclaimer in the history of disclaimers. Okay. Okay. And she says to me, she goes,

I'm going to tell you now. and for sure you're not going to want to talk to me anymore. And I thought, okay, what, what, you know, please don't, people do not judge me this. I'm just relaying a story. And the reason why I'm saying it, because of what's going to follow. She says, I am likely to be the reincarnation of the daughter of Mary Magdalene and Jesus.

Now, regardless of the fact that I saw Kraft and regardless of everything, at this point, I did not believe her. And I have to be honest. I have to be honest. I didn't believe her. In fact, I ultra didn't believe her. I really thought that was a coincidence. I got scammed into something. This person is delusional. This is what's going on in my mind. If I don't say that and got, But if I don't say that, I'm lying, because that's exactly what I was thinking. And she says, you don't believe me. And I said, well, I don't know if I believe you. She says, well, I want to explain something to you, but I'm going to explain it to you in the car. Now, that night, I was organizing a dinner at my house. So I had Don Don Donderry, his wife that passed away, but she was going to come as well. all the people that were up there with us who had seen this and some other friends,

that were all going to come for dinner at my house. She gets in the car and she says to me, I was taken up in a ship one time and they introduced me to a little girl. I was in a room and there was a woman that looked like a human, but not a hundred percent, was a normal, human-looking woman, but thinning hair, didn't look 100% human, who was holding a baby,

and there was a gray with her. And the human hands over the baby, this little girl to her. It's just going like this. And Sarah's going, I don't know why you're giving me this baby. She says, because this is your baby. You have to name her.

And Sarah says, No, no, this is not my baby. I don't want to name her. I don't want anything to do with her. She's telling me this. And they were, they were like insisting. So she picks up this little girl and she's holding her. And she's got blue eyes, curly hair.

And they said, you need to name her. You need to give her a name. And the name, so she ends up saying the name. She says, I'm going to call her Lily. and gives back the baby. So this is in the car, and she says to me, I have a little girl that is somewhere up there, and I don't know where she is. Now, as a person who investigated abductions or encounters before, this is not the first time that I hear that somebody's had a baby, that they've kept the baby. This is a very common thing for anybody who is familiar with this. That's not that

uncommon, although it sounds pretty crazy, it's not uncommon. So I found that interesting, but I'm also thinking maybe she knows about that, maybe she's read about that, maybe she's using that as a cover or another story on top of, because she just told me that she's the daughter of Mary Magdalene and Jesus. That kind of ruined everything else that she could tell me. Yeah. So we're driving, and I remember the time and I had to cook dinner. So I said, look, when I get home, I'm going to just ask you, you know, make yourself at home. I'll give you a glass of wine if you want, but I got to prepare dinner. There's a lot of people coming over. No problem. As I got home, Lisa was there. And Lisa is French Canadian. She's, she's, there's a video at me with her

that came out a long time ago. And I, I, I certainly do believe that Lisa has some type of link to something very strange. Her mother just recently passed, by the way. I found out that her mom passed away just recently, which was terrible. And so she's going through that. And because her mother had been abducted and all that stuff. So Lisa's there. She's at the front door. She was early.

So I was like, oh, good. But in my head, I'm thinking, you can't even hang out with each other because she speaks French and she speaks English and neither, you know, they're not going to be able to communicate well. So I'm in the kitchen starting to cook. And they're in the living room. And I kid you not. I don't know what was going on, but I was preparing food and I could hear Lisa speaking French

and Sarah answering in English coherently to what Lisa had said and vice versa, as if they were speaking the same language. And I was like, I remember going, what is it? What is going on? Because I know Lisa doesn't understand English. I've tried to speak in English to her. It wasn't, it was. So I was like, how is that happening?

So I turned around and I said, are you guys talking to each other? And Sarah goes, don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. Just keep cooking. So I was like, it was just weird. Everybody's going to think I'm insane, but I'm just relaying what I experience here.

Everybody starts showing up. We have an amazing night. Everybody's there. We, and I'll never forget, Verna, Don Donderry's wife, who's also gone, she passed away, brought me a big bouquet of lilies, not knowing, right?

So I put these lilies in a, in a, in a, like a flower pie vase. We have dinner. The police officer was there. And he was, he, I forgot to mention that for about two weeks prior to him, prior to this evening, between the time we had seen that craft appear and this dinner, he kept calling me, telling me that I. absolutely had to go meet with a woman in the south shore of Montreal because there's a little girl there that's her daughter that is not from here. And I'm like, I didn't have time for it.

Okay? This is exactly what was happening to me. I was doing a lot of things. I was working. I didn't have time for it. And I kept telling him, I know, I know, but I can't, I don't have time. And he kept insisting, trust me, you have to meet her. Why? I don't know. So we're all having dinner. Everything's beautiful. The next day, Sarah's leaving. The next morning, I have to drive her to the airport. Everybody starts leaving. It was like past midnight. Bye, bye, bye. Everybody's hugging. Okay, take care of. Now it's just Sarah, me, Lisa, and my cousin, who's there still. It's like almost one, the morning. We're talking and my phone rings and I'm like, ooh, it's late. I go, maybe somebody forgot something. I go, and it's him, the cop, calls me. Hey, come on savo. How are you?

You know, I'm good. He says, look, I wanted to do that all night, but I couldn't, I couldn't do it. I have to ask you to do me a favor and can you ask something, can you ask Sarah something? I said, sure. Can you ask her if the name Lily means anything to her? Now, Sarah had not mentioned this to anybody. She had only said it to me in the car. And I remember going, I didn't say that right away to him. So I said, hold on. So I call her, she comes, and I said, Sarah.

Now, I knew the answer, but I had to pretend that I didn't know. So I put him on speaker, and I said, Sarah, he's asking if the name Lily means anything to you. and she looks at me, she goes, yes, of course, I told you today. I said, I know, but tell him. She says, what do you want me to tell him? Yes, she says, yes, that's my daughter in space. And he goes, Luigi, take me off speaker.

So I get him off speaker, and I'm talking to him. And she goes, she goes, do you need, you still need me? and I looked at her and I said, so, so that story holds, right? And she kind of got, not mad, but she goes, hold on. She goes to the guest room. She had brought her binder with all her drawings, and she pulled out the drawing she made of Lily,

which I could share so you could show, and I have this drawing. And I said to him, I said, hold on a second. I'm going to do your favor. I'm going to send you something. So while I snap a picture of that drawing and I'm about to text him, he texts me a picture of a little girl. Now that I cannot share because I don't have the right to do that. I swear to, well, you'll, you've seen it.

They are an identical match. The drawing and the picture are identical. Identical. It's the same person. And I remember going to him, I sent him to draw. He doesn't see that I sent him drunk because he sent it and took the phone, put it up on his ear. So he doesn't know that I just texted him a picture. And I'm looking at it and I go, dude, is that the little girl that you've been asking me to?

He goes, yes, and I can't talk about it more. And I said, but what's her name? He says, her name is Lily. Now, that blew me away because he kept saying she's not from here, blah, blah, blah. And again, disclaimers, this is weird. This is all very strange stuff. Like, you cannot make this stuff up. They didn't know each other.

Nobody knew each other. There's no way this was a coordinated, you know, attack on my, you know, investigative skills or knowledge of this phenomenon. This was weird. So I'm looking at this going, what the fuck? So I, Sarah's right next to me. And I have the picture of the little girl. And I just go, Sarah, do you know? I didn't finish saying, do you know?

She went, like she screamed. And she goes, oh, my God, that's her. Where is she? And I'm like, what do you mean? She goes, that's her. That is 100% her. Where is this little girl? She freaked out.

And I got goosebumps. I'm like, well, hold on a second. She goes, no, no, no, no, no. She goes, there's something I never told you. I said, what? She goes, I have to tell you something. This is really freaking me. She's got tears in her eyes.

Now, my cousin and Lisa hear this. They run because they hear her screaming and she's crying. And she's like, that is her. Now, the cop is on the phone going, is she saying that she knows this little girl? And then I said, check your phone. And he checks his phone. and he stops the car.

He goes, oh, dude, I just pulled over. He goes, what the fuck is this drawing? I said, it's the drawing she made of this little girl that she met on a spaceship. And she said, and he said, there's no fucking way. I go, yeah. He goes, what's going on? If you see them together, they're identical. There's no way that could have been just some fucking magical.

You're a magician. That's a pretty big magic trick. That's a magic trick. I mean, it's, it's, uh, it's well beyond a conventional coincidence. Yeah. Um, you know, so now it goes into territory where you got to start to, yeah, maybe think, oh, maybe there is something here. I, that, that's, that was, that was hard for me to like, completely ignore because I'm looking

at images now that are like matching. And once again, you're confirmed. with this really bizarre reality that she had presented about her lineage, her alleged lineage. And that is about to get confirmed. And so let's hear it. So, again, you know, disclaimers. And so we hang up the phone. She starts crying.

She says, I never told you this. But the reason why I chose to come to Quebec was not just because of my boyfriend is. is I was in Germany on a hike and she said on my hike in a German forest she said I asked them where do I find her and she goes I look down on my hiking boots

and she goes you know those little flags that you put in a cocktail drink they have like it's like a toothpick with a flag on it she goes there was a little Canadian flag flag stuck in my hiking boot in the middle of a forest in Germany. And so she said, I have to go to Canada. That's what made her come to Canada, which is really weird. So again, is that true? That's what she said, right?

But it's still interesting. So the next day she leaves and she leaves reluctant, like she doesn't want to leave, but she leaves because she wants to meet this little girl. Now, I don't have any information, so I clearly call him back. And he says, look, I'm not really supposed to tell you who she is, and the mother doesn't want anybody to know who she is. The mother is very, very, you know, wants to keep this confidential. So I said, no problem. I said, but it's still very interesting.

I want to, is there a way to, he says, let me see if I can make you speak to her friend, the mom's friend. So I get invited, maybe a day or two after this, to go and meet with her mom's friend. Her mom's friend knew nothing. Nothing about Sarah, nothing about me, nothing about anybody. He just said, somebody would like to talk to you. Is it okay? And she was like, what, so when I, I remember when I arrived at her place, she was like, very confused, who are you and why are you here? And I said, it's so awkward, I just have questions about a friend of yours.

So I don't have questions for you. I said, I'm being told that so-and-so doesn't want to talk with anybody about her daughter. And as soon as I said that, she goes, oh, you're talking about Lily. Okay. Like she knew. And I thought, okay. I said, I want to tell you who I am. I said, I'm a guy who's done a lot of work in the past.

investigating weird phenomena. I'm, you know, got to know him, who's a police officer who got me these pictures. She knew about the pictures he had explained to her. It's the only thing she knew about is his link to me was these pictures. And her husband is there. And I said, look, there's this woman I got to meet. It's very, it's confusing me. It's, I'm struggling with it.

So I'm going to tell you something that absolutely. is going to freak you out and make you not, it's going to put more questions than answers in your head, but I have to say it. This woman came up to me and said that she was the daughter of Mary Magdalene and Jesus Christ, and the woman went like that. And I was like, why did you just react like that? And she says, keep going. I said, no, no, no, no. I'm not going to keep going. Why did you just react like that? And she looks at it. her husband, and it was like a long pause in the kitchen, and she looks at me and she says, her mother was introduced to her daughter on a spaceship, and it was Jesus who introduced her to her daughter.

And she doesn't talk about anything else but Mary Magdalene all the time. Even the cop was like, hey, what? Like it was just this weird. This is the thing, the thing that I believed the least out of the whole story. And here is this sudden, what the fuck did you just say? She says, I'm not allowed to get into it. I can tell you that there's something special about the little girl and that the mother met her on a spaceship. That's all I know.

and that she's obsessed with Mary Magdalene. Now, that's a lot to take in, okay? It's a lot to take in because now I'm meeting another person. The cop clearly didn't say anything. If he did bad on him, I really don't think so because he was really shocked. When she's, even her husband turned around, like, what the hell are you talking about? Like, what's going on? It was a real, and I could see her, her, she's very emotional.

and she was protective of her friend and her friend's daughter. I said, look, I get it. I don't want to impose any more on your lives. I don't want to. I don't have any urgent need to do anything. So I apologize. I don't want you to bother the mother, whatever. It's unfortunate because I would have certain,

I certainly would have questions for her. She says she doesn't want to talk to anybody. I don't think she's going to talk to you. Okay. Fine. We exchanged phone numbers and contact, and I left. This sat with me for maybe like two or three weeks. I was like, what am I doing with this?

And Sarah was calling me, and I didn't want to say to Sarah. Sarah called me. I didn't want to say to Sarah, I met a woman who knows her and she keeps talking about marriage. Because if I say that, it's going to make Sarah either be more delusional or if it's real, completely drive her nuts. I didn't want to instigate more. And I was investigating. So I'm at the same time being very cautious what I'm saying to who to also figure out how is this information getting out there? Because I'm, you know, again, I'm thinking the only way for her to know is if the cop would have said something. I really didn't think he did that because he genuinely didn't look to me like a person

who did that. And he hadn't shared the pictures, by the way. Yeah. forgot to mention, he never shared the pictures because he was like, I don't want to, it's not, it's not, it's not my little girl. It's not, I don't want to do that. I feel, he was even feeling weird having the pictures. So did I, by the way, because at this point, it's not my little girl. It has nothing to do with me, but what the fuck is going on? I get, um, so I get a call out of the blue from the same guy who had come up to me. He had come up to me. I'm, I get, um, so I get a call out of the blue from the same guy who had come up to me. me at McGill University that day when Don Don Donderry was talking and I was sitting next to my cop friend. That same guy calls me. And he says, I need you to meet somebody in downtown Montreal if you have time. She's been abducted and she's going through a lot of trauma. At that moment, I'll never forget. I told him, I said, dude, I am, I am busy. I've got a lot of stuff going on. I don't think I can take another case right now. He's like, you really need to. You really, really need. It can, you can kept saying you really need to.

So long story short, I agree to it on a Saturday morning, 10 o'clock, I go to downtown Montreal and there's a restaurant there that was like, it's like an old house. So there's like multiple floors. And on the very top floor, there's a book room. There's like only books. So he said, meet us up there. So I went all the way upstairs and I walk into this room. It's me, him, the owner of the restaurant, and this girl.

Now, this girl has got her back to me, and she's reading, she's looking at the books. She's young. So nobody knows anybody, really. I guess he knew that I had to get introduced. So she turns around, she says, oh, hello. And I should just make a quick pause. That week, that during that week, I kept seeing, I know this is going to sound really cheesy and corny, but I kept seeing 4-4-4 on my phone.

Every day, I kept seeing 4-4-4. And I started screenshotting it because I'm like, why am I always seeing this? It was just a number that kept a picture. So I just, I remember screenshotting 4-44-I had no meaning to me, but I just remember doing that that week. So, anyway, side note, it's important. So she turns around, she's a nice young girl.

She introduces herself. Her name is Emily, not Emily Trim, another Emily. And nice to meet you, we sit down and we say, why don't we do an introduction? So it starts off with me. I am so-and-so, and I've been doing this for a long time. Then it goes to the guy who's invited me, and then the owner of the restaurant, and then he gets to her. And again, disclaimer, I'm reporting what happened. She said to me, my name is Emily, and I have been visited by them on multiple occasions.

I am not from Montreal, but I was told to come to Montreal. And she looked right at me, like at that moment, and she says, and I want to start by saying that 4-4-4-4 is very important. And I was told to come to Montreal because there's a little girl here called Lily and her mother's Sarah, and she's the daughter of Mary Magdalene. I swear that's what she said. And I'll never forget, I had tears in my husband. my eyes and I was like, there was no way. And the guy who invited me, he looks at me and I said,

guys, if you could just leave the room for a second. And she said, yes, please, please leave the room. And they left the room and it was just me and her. And she looked at me and she goes, you know her, don't you? Tell me you know her. I said, who are you? Like I was so, like, I was so, like, It was such a weird thing. And I thought, who are you? Like, how do you know this? She goes, I knew you knew. I knew.

You saw 4-44, right? And I said, what the fuck are you talking about? I cannot explain that, Chris. I have done hundreds, if not thousands of reports of these things in my life. I've worked closely with Emily Trim, who was a witness at the Ariel Primary School. I know Liesel Field from Ariel Primary School. I now know Emily's brother Paul, who was also a witness. I've worked with abductees here in Quebec, multiple cases.

I've met people from all over the world. I got trained by David Jacobs on abductions and encounters. I got trained by Don Donderry on how to speak the psychology, perceptive psychology of this phenomenon. I am extremely grounded. I do not mix religion with aliens. I try not to. I'm extremely Cartesian.

How do you say that in English? But I'm very grounded and very methodical. I don't jump to conclusions. I hate jumping to conclusions. That's impossible. That was impossible. There's no way she could have known that. Unless it was a gigantic coordinated thing.

For what? For what? Like, what's the end goal? Here, let's say they all coordinated. Let's say Sarah is friends with Emily, and let's say this guy who had called me as friends with, and they're all trying to, like, create some scam or some fake story.

for what? What's the goal? Nobody, what's the goal? Now, I can also confirm the, so right after this, I'm going to fast forward. I finally convince the mother of Lily to speak to me through her, that woman, the friend. Finally, this happened in 2015. I'll never, forget. I think it was close to my birthday. She was around this time. She finally accepts to talk to me on the phone, and I call her.

She answers the phone. She speaks French, and we start talking. Now, again, it's really important. I did not relay this information to the cop. Her friend didn't know this whole thing with this other Emily. I'm not telling anybody. This is very closed-knit circles here, okay? So the mother, I ask her, I said,

look, I am really in an uncomfortable position here. I have to talk about your daughter, and I don't want to make you think that I want to know too much about your daughter, because I cannot, I cannot even imagine how you must be suspicious of this stranger, this man who's asking you about your young daughter. It's a hundred percent strange. So I understand if you don't want to talk about it, but I'm hoping that you can elaborate a little bit about why your friend says it's possible that she's not from here. And she says to me, I was brought in, I was brought, I was taken, I was brought onto a spaceship. I said, how do you, how do you know it was a spaceship? She says, I don't know, but I know it was a spaceship. It wasn't.

made, it wasn't a place that I recognized from Earth. I was in a room with lots of women. It was a round room and there were other women sitting in the room with me. And these women all looked like they were shut off. She said they didn't look like they were awake. Their eyes were open, but they looked like robots like they were not activated. And she says, Jesus, I met Jesus. He came into the room and said to me, you are about to become a mother, and I will introduce you to your child. He left the room, and the little girl ran into the room and said, Mama, Mama, my name is Lily. And she says, that's how I met her on a ship. And I was returned and I was impregnated by my husband and I had her and she ended up looking identical

to the little girl I saw on the ship. Everything I just said throughout this whole story doesn't make any sense, but there's no way these pieces of information should make connections. If all of this is completely nonsensical, why does it start connecting dots? Why is it? And then I also eventually, sorry, I forgot to say, I also asked her, do you believe in, are you a Catholic, are you Christian? You know, and she says, not practicing. She says, but I do feel a connection to Mary Magdalene. I don't know why.

And she kept saying, I feel a connection to Mary Magdalene, but I don't know why. She goes, so I have a lot of thoughts about her. She wasn't a, she's not a crazy woman, by the way. Oh, by the way, I eventually did meet her years later. I not only met her, spoke to her husband. Her husband is a billionaire, by the way, who's a very wealthy man, very, very wealthy, okay? They, you know, you would very protective of their kids, which is normal, completely normal. You met the kid?

I met her one time. I met, believe it or not, out of all places, I met her in a church. I met her in a church because it was a Christmas, not a Christmas, sorry, yeah, it was a Christmas event here in the Laurentians. Here. Yeah, here. I met her here in the Laurentians. and I was going to meet the mother. And when I finally saw the mother, because I had seen a picture of her, I recognized her.

I walked up to her, and boom, she shows up. The little girl shows up. And I was just like, her eyes are so beautiful. She has blue, blue, blue, blue, blue, like super blue eyes. And the little girl looked at me and just turned around and ran away. I didn't even want to talk to her because I was like, I do not want to. want the mom to ever feel. Yeah, so weird.

It's so weird. So I did not even address her. I only addressed the mother because for me it was super critical that I do not. There's a boundary there and I'm not going to go beyond it. Yeah. And I remember meeting her, very nice woman, very, very sweet, French Canadian. And ironically. She was born and raised in the exact same place where Lisa was raised, which is very far away from here.

Yeah, Lisa, whose mother was abducted. Yeah, yeah, very far away from here north of Quebec. Lisa, who's also 6-3. Yeah, 6-3. Blonde, blue eyes, bombshell a woman. Absolutely. She doesn't, she had met Travis Walton. Travis said she looks identical to what he had seen.

Exactly. Yeah. So this story, this story of the. little girl Lily, the story of Sarah. Now, things obviously continued and progressed. I wanted to get to the bottom of it. And it's so interesting. And I'm going to say something else that, again, it's crazy. When my father passed away, my dad died in 2008. And when my dad died, I had a dream of him. The night after he died, I dreamt of my dad. And I remember I was in my dream. I was sitting down on a chair and my legs crossed. And I remember looking to my right and I saw somebody arriving here to my left and I looked up and it was him.

And he was in a suit and he looked in, he looked younger. He looked in great health. He looked incredible. But he looked, he gave me a look of very, it was a very, it was a very meaningful look. He didn't look happy. He looked at me like my dad would have looked at me when I was younger, basically saying, you still have a lot to learn. That was the look. That's what I got from his look, was there's still a lot you have to learn. So I stood up. I remember thinking, because in my dream, I knew he had died, so he's there. So I stood up. And on his left here, it, it, was a piece of masking tape, you know, this painter's tape, the beige painter's tape on his black suit. And it was a piece of masking tape. And it was written with a black marker 113.90.

Chris, I went bananas after that dream trying to figure out what that was. I went absolutely fucking bananas. I wanted to know what is 113.9 or 113.90. What is that? I spent while all this was going on, I was always thinking, I've always had that in the back of my mind. I used to have that in the back of my mind. Every single day that I would wake up, my dad showed me a number, it means something. To me, it was like, that means something. What is it? Is it a radio station?

Is it, you know, what is it? And it was never clear. And so Sarah calls from Great Britain says, I'm going to be going to the United States. I have to go see a friend of mine in New Jersey. And I thought, oh, that's not too far away. She says, would you like to come to see me? And I said, I'd love to.

So I called Emily. and I said, Emily, there's as a woman. Would you like to come with me? We'll go. It was a bed and breakfast. They were staying in New Jersey at a bed and breakfast. And I said, let's, she says, let's go. So it was like a, I didn't, like, it made those decisions in an hour, right?

Sarah arrived in New Jersey. She was staying with a friend of her, well, a friend, at an Airbnb with a friend of hers. and Emily and I arrived. And so she meets Emily. And this is, how are you? How are you? We're sitting there. And this is really strange.

Emily had some type of really good friendly connection with Sarah. So they were always laughing and talking and they really got along. This guy can get in his truck. And he goes, And Sarah goes, hey, Luigi, she goes, you like crystals, don't you? Because I collect expensive crystals. And I said, yeah, you remember that because she had come to my house and she had seen some. And she says, there's a crystal cave not too far away.

Ken told me. And we could go there and there's like a bunch of crystals. And I thought a crystal cave. How weird is that? I said, let's do it. Let's go. nothing else to do. It was a snow, it was some snow out.

So we get in the truck and we're driving. And on our way there, dude, I can't make this shit up. I go, where is it, by the way? Where's the Crystal Cave? Oh. Oh, it's in Bethlehem, New Jersey. Oh, wait, wait, I swear to God. But wait, I'm like, right?

So I'm like, you guys are all fucking putting on a show. It's like, it's in Bethlehem, New Jersey. You go, you're kidding, right? And he goes, no, why? Because for him, he lives there. He's like, it's just a name. And Sarah, she's in the front seat, turns around and she goes, you find that funny, don't you? And I'm like, shut up.

You know, like, I was joking around with her. So we're in the truck. And it's a good half an hour from where we were to get there. And I suddenly bring up the fact that I've been for the longest time trying to figure out what this 113.9 means. And I'm talking to Emily in the backseat, going, yeah, this is something that I've always been curious about. And Sarah just turns around and says,

oh, I know what it is. Do you want to know? And I'm like, I hate you. Because if it's going to make sense, it's going to really piss. It was starting to piss me off. She says it's in the Bible. I never had thought about the Bible

and I'm like the Bible she goes Psalms 113.9 read it it talks about you and I think what like nothing of everything was like I'm in a dream so I googled it

obviously anybody could Google it it's he who gives house he who cares for barren women women that have children not by men. Like the Virgin Mary is a barren woman. And I found that interesting because I'm like, every time I used to do abduction cases,

it's women who either got impregnated or had these fetuses taken away from them, but they weren't having these kids with their husbands, which I found really weird. So, and I said, and I looked at her and I said, you remember a verse like a Psalms, you know, she goes, of course, I know all of it. It's just a weird thing. So we finally get off the exit to go to Bethlehem was, I took a picture of it, I have it somewhere, it's a Virgin Mary exit. I swear to you, I can't make this shit up.

So that was my trip to go see Sarah. Jersey. Okay? So obviously, you know, I went back. I met with Don Don Donderry and I said, look, this is insane. Don, Don, sit down. I said, Don, this is not normal. And he says, you need to start writing all this down for real because there's always coincidences in life, but this seems like there's just too many. So I'd agree. So if you think about stories in all my in all my career as investigating the this phenomenon that is by far the one that had so many pieces that made no sense to me but it doesn't end there no it doesn't what happened to sarah well so well sarah is gone i uh i was in communication so she went back to great

Britain. She lived on a place, she lived on Holy Island. It's a place called Holy Island in Great Britain. Go figure. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? And I was in communication with her almost every three, four days. We would talk. We would at least write each other, call each other, whatever. And about maybe a month or two before I lost complete contact with her, I had a weird dream. I thought it was a dream. And apparently in the night, I wrote gibberish on a text message to her, and I sent her the text. The next morning she wrote me, she says, what the hell did you write me? And I said, I never wrote you.

She goes, go look at your text, and I look at the text. And it was, you know when you send like a long, it was just me pressing anything. And I sent it to her in the middle of the night. I don't know why I did that. It was just a weird thing that happened. And I thought, oh, I must have, I don't know why. Maybe I hit a button or something, but it's like a long text like that. And it was just anything.

It was, there was no spaces. It was just letters, a lot of letters. And she said, I don't feel. safe anymore. I don't, I don't know what will happen with all that everything that's happened. She goes, I'm very sad about that I never got to meet Lily because regardless of the fact that we did connect with the mom, the mom hadn't what wanted nothing to do with that. And I understand. I completely understand that. And so that's error, by the way. Yeah. So that Sarah. So she was never angry. She was just sad. that it never happened. She never got angry. And there was somebody,

I remember Emily, actually Emily, the Emily that got, became friends with us, this girl that had been abducted, and Emily Trim. We were all hanging out together. And I'll never forget,

we were all in Montreal together, and we got word that Sarah was being threatened. somebody was was threatening sarah some crazy person i don't know what happened and she said i'm going to try my best to uh lay low and i thought okay well let's let's stay in touch and i you know let me you you reach out to me i never heard back from her ever again i reached out to people on holy Island, very small, by the way. Nobody's ever been able to give me her information or what happened to Sarah. I knew her address.

Nobody ever saw her again. So she vanished. There was also, she was, wasn't she, um, were there like strange men? Yeah. Looking for her. Uh, yeah. So I was going to bring it up, but yeah. Oh.

So, yeah, that's a, that happened, that happened before I met her in Quebec. Or, yeah, it was right before I met her in Quebec. When she was on her way to Quebec, she landed in New York City. Flying to North America, the plane landed in New York, from New York, she was going to come to Quebec, which is not far. She ended up staying in New York for a day. and she was at Grand Central Station. And she was sitting there with her luggage. And she said two men came close to her and said,

what did they? She said one of them had a ring a big giant Mason sign, you know, the masons. So she recognized that on his hand. And he just stopped, looked at her, and said something like, we know who you are, we know why you're here. And she was like, I don't, I don't know who you are.

I don't want to know anything about you. Like she, she's, she's, you know, you're in a, you're in a train station. A guy's are talking to a girl. Most of the women will just be like, fuck off, leave me alone. But she said they were very weird, like, like they were aware of who she was. It wasn't like they were trying to take her, but she, she said they, they, they, they They knew me. They knew who I was and I was there to go up to Quebec and that they were saying, we know who you are. We know where, like basically we know where you're going. And that was it.

That was, if I remember correctly, that was the interaction with these guys. She had another interaction when she was on Holy Island where there was a man and another guy in a car. So there was two people, one in a car and one outside, that were following her all the time. But she said they didn't look like they belonged on Holy Island, didn't look like people from there. So she had mentioned that to me a few times, and she was worried about it. I don't know. I don't know what to make out, what to make of it. There's a lot I'm not saying in the story, because it's a, if I start elaborating on everything she

described to me over the the course of time that I knew her and all the all the drawings that she had made for me and all the information. It's, it's enormous, okay? The reason why I did, this is the first time I'm sharing this, by the way, and it's with you, so I really, you know, I know you're going to have the right disclaimers out for this, but I will never, I'll never believe that that was just coincidence. I'll never believe that that was just something. type of random interaction with people. I don't know what happened. I don't know what it is.

I don't pretend to know what it is, but I can say this. It's probably the reason why I left the field permanently because after that and after losing my friend Emily, which is the aerial case, I didn't want to investigate this anymore.

I got enough out of this field that I said, I'm just going to tell stories now. I'm going to make the stories come to life. I don't, I don't think we're ever going to get an answer on these things. I don't think, I don't think the government is going to give us an answer on the nuts and bolts. And I don't think that the aliens are going to give us an answer as to why Mary Magdalene fits into the picture. I don't think we're going to get that.

In fact, I have to say one, I forgot to say one thing out of this story. After I met with the mother, the friend of the mother of Lily, I had gone to Toronto to see Emily Trim. Emily had no idea at all that I was working on, at all, absolutely zero. And I went to her house,

She lived in Etobico at the time, and I went to pick her up, Emily Trim from Rua, Zimbabwe. And I'll never forget, she walked it, she climbs in the front seat, and we were super happy to see her. I have pictures of that night with her. I really miss Emily. And she brought her diary with her in the car. It was a red book. And I remember asking her, what's that? She goes, oh, it's my diary.

I said, why did you bring it in the car? She goes, because I wanted you to read it. It was okay. I appreciate that because she says, you always ask me questions. If you read my diary, you'll have some answers to a lot of things because I write a lot in it. It's very personal. And I said to her, I said, can I see it? And she says, absolutely.

And she opened the page. I'll never forget. I hope her mother still has it. She opened the book and in big black, like she wrote it with a black marker and she wrote it super big on both pages. She went on both pages without knowing anything. She wrote Mary Magdalene on both pages.

And I looked at her and I remember saying, why did you write that? She says because it has everything to do with that. So it's like some Da Vinci code. I mean, it's so. It's so wild. It's exactly. You know, it was interesting once you told me too that you went to the Vatican.

Yeah. And the picture you took. Yes. I thought that was just such an interesting, like, extra connection that you could never have made. In 2015, I went to the Vatican with Sarah. And that's where you're originally from, too. This is where you're from Rome, your mom's from Italy.

I used to go to the Vatican on Sundays. Yeah. Okay, like that was my grandfather, my grandfather would take me to church on Sunday. It would be the Vatican. Yeah. Okay,

so I was familiar with the Vatican. And I wanted to go back because it's beautiful. Regardless of whether we practice or not, and regardless of the fact that I don't agree that they should have gold ceilings at the Vatican, okay? There's a lot of people that could benefit from that, but it's still beautiful. So I went to the Vatican.

And in 2015, there was a section that is no longer accessible to the public. I went back in 2019 and they've closed it off. It's no longer, they made a wall. You can't even see where I'm talking about now. And on the left side, if you go into the basilica, on the left side, you have to walk a while. It used to be a place where they had it corded off. They're these, you know, those like little red ropes. Ropes, yeah, stuff.

But you can go. you have to wait and there was a section there's all these guards guards are dressed in black suits that look like the men in black and in the Vatican everybody's dressed in a black suit and the men in black are at the Vatican I'm kidding so

wouldn't surprise me it wouldn't surprise me either but they're all there and you're it says no photo about a hundred times like a hundred places like if if you don't understand that you're insane because they

they repeat it to you so many times before you go to that area. So, and then they're also telling you, they're not only it's written, but they're also saying, no photo, no photo. Like they keep, they go right in your face. So, okay, I get it. No photo.

So it's an area, and I could, I'll share the picture, so you could put it up. And there's the, there's a gold, there's an altar. It's a small altar. There's chairs. And there's a gold, I don't know if you want to call it.

call it like a container or something. It's a pretty big one. And inside there, there's the bones of one of the apostles. Okay. And right on the wall, there's a painting of Jesus Christ holding a baby and a bouquet of lilies, lily flowers. And there's a halo around over the head of Jesus and on the head of the child. In Christianity, have everybody verify this, a halo above everybody's heads, like the saints and all these people, is yellow. The only person who has a white halo is Jesus Christ.

He and the child had a white halo. What did the child look like? it looked like Lily Okay And I asked the guard there I said In Italian I said

Who's the baby And the guard looked at me And he says, it's not a baby I said well Who's the child It's not a child Like in a it's not a child Like he knew

Like it's not a child And I said In Italian I said Well What is it? He says just a representation of hope. Keep walking. Like in a very rude way. So I took a picture when they said not to. Because why would you paint a child in Jesus' hands, arms, sorry,

and make that a representation of hope? Why would you do that? What told you that that's what that is? And what are the lilies signify? And what do the lilies signify? And why at that specific location in the church, where there's so many guards and no pictures allowed? I snuck a picture with my phone. It's not like I took my camera. I took a picture because I don't ever tell me not to take a picture

because I'm going to take a picture. That's just the way I am. So, but it meant something to me. And the fact that it has a, that the little kid has a white halo, it, it, it means something, especially in, in Christianity, a white halo is only supposed to be for Jesus. Have you looked into what the lily could signify? I remember, I did, uh, I'm trying to remember, but not there, it, there, it is repeated. Should we look it up real quick? Sure.

Look it up. I'd be interested right now. Absolutely. I mean, it's, it's got. I don't have my phone here with me, so. The lily flowers. It's a really interesting... In Christianity, okay.

We'll see here. Powerful symbol in Christianity, tied to purity, innocence, and divine grace. The white lily, especially the Madonna lily. Madonna. Madonna. Madonna. Isn't that interesting?

Yeah. It's strongly associated with purity, which is why it's often linked to Virgin Mary. In religious art, it reinforces her sinless and immaculate nature. In depictions of the enunciation, the angel Gabriel is often shown, holding a lily when he appears to marry. The flower symbolizes the purity of Christ's conception. Huh. Three, the resurrection and hope. The Easter lily is widely used in churches during Easter.

It's trumpet shape and bright white color symbolize the resurrection of Jesus, new life and spiritual birth. And four, holiness and divine beauty, lily imagery is sometimes connected to teachings of Jesus Christ. For example, when he speaks about the lilies of the field, Matthew 628, highlighting God's provision and natural beauty without human striving. So purity and divine favor, resurrection, spiritual beauty. Interesting. It is. I mean, it is. You know, if you were looking for a rabbit hole, you found one.

Like this is... That is the ultimate rabbit hole. It is so... This is very Da Vinci code-esque, I will say. Absolutely. And that's why I became... That's why I became such a big part of my life at that time. Yeah.

And it was also... I couldn't... I'm going to say this and get grabbed for it, but I don't think I could ever have beaten that as a case. Yeah. So I stopped. Yeah. I just walked away and I thought, if ever there's something to this, if there is something

to this, if there is, which possible, then we are not just dealing with some type of extraterrestrial faction or some extraterrestrial civilization. There's something that is integrally related to our belief systems, to our, maybe they created a belief system, maybe they're integral to it, maybe there's something else that we need to be unafraid of talking about in order to connect the dots. Maybe that's why religion is kept so far away from this research, because if you do, you start becoming criticized the same way I used to get criticized in the 80s. If we, both of us, you're very become prominent person in this, and I just made a film now, but other than that, I'm no longer as active as I used to be.

And if you and I were starting to go do talks and we start talking about Jesus and aliens in the same talk, we're going to go from here to here real fast, no matter how open the conversation is. And no matter how less judgmental society has become, that's kind of a- There's a taboo. There's a taboo. And especially, and like, I'm pretty agnostic when it comes to this stuff. Like, I know you are pretty much as well. Like, it's absolutely. It's more of like the, I don't know.

I don't know. And I'm happy to just listen. Yeah. But, you know, tying this back to Bob Lazar, there's also a Jesus connection there. It's crazy. Exactly. Which is wild. Which, you know, the blue documents, he read that Jesus was some type of hybrid or something. Absolutely. And we had a conversation about that. He doesn't, didn't, absolutely did not want me to put any of that in the film. Because in, in the story of Bob Lazar, Bob was given access to a bunch of folders that were inside the briefing room.

And there was a book, a book, a file in there this thick on religion. And Gene Huff covered that a lot in my interviews, and you're going to see that on our We Are Not Alone channel, but Gene Huff says the way it was written, because he remembered how Bob said that it was written. It says, the Christian God as you know him, doesn't exist. Not that the Christian God doesn't exist. The Christian God as you know him. Those words are important. That's how it was written. Now, is that a Christian God doesn't exist. the Christian God as you know him. Those words are important. That's how it was written. Now, is that all fake? Is that all, you know, some information to derail the story of Bob was, to derail him, make him believe, all sorts of, very possible.

That's why we didn't put it in there. Bob said, don't put any of the stuff in there. Maybe it's all bullshit, you know, and so on. And so I was very careful about that. Gene Huff keeps talking about it, though. Yeah, it's different if Bob would. was like introduced to a guy claiming to be Jesus. And then he would talk about it.

Yeah. Because then I'd be like, no, there was a guy who said he was in his name of Jesus. Right. But that's not the case. Just like he worked in the craft. He's like, I'll talk about that because I could touch it. Yeah. But that was not the case.

Yeah. So there's a whole book about, you know, I also have. I did not think we'd be talking about Bob Lazar and Jesus, by the way, before we started this podcast. Bob was going to find out about this and call me. It's going to be like, we need to talk. keep my name out of your back. But there was a, there was also a conversation with Bob.

Well, not with Bob. Well, yeah, with Bob about those documents. Something to do. And it was also with Gene Huff. Gene Huff remembers a lot of it.

Because when Bob used to go home would tell Gene all this stuff, Gene's a, gene's, a, is a historical record in human form. Yeah. Like,

that guy remembers what he ate on December 27. second 1974. Like, he's incredibly accurate with a super, super smart guy. And Gene remembers everything. And he said, you know, they, they were talking about the fact that Jesus was left here was, was, yeah, yeah, it was, it was something about, left behind or left behind with somebody else. And, and in the process of me making this film, I had the opportunity and the, the honor, not just that, because it was. privileged to meet with them and talk with him to meet with Lane Keck, who was the hypnotist, who hypnotized Bob Lazar after all this happened, right after.

Right after. We're talking April, April of 1989. So this was like, I mean, right there. And Bob did a few sessions with him. And the reason why he did that, excuse me, the reason why he had done that was because he said, I just, he just wanted to see if the, if, the regressions could clarify more memory. I mean, he said, I was shown so much stuff that I couldn't remember everything,

which is normal, obviously. So Lane did those regressions, took notes, handwritten notes at the time. And when I had, when I interviewed Lane Keck, who by the way, is an incredible person, wonderful man, very thankful that he participated. We were not able to put him in the film, but there will be an episode that's going to follow with Lane and all the information that he provided to us. And he said, I have all the original notes that I have never shown anybody. I was really curious. And I said, do you have them on hand?

He says, I do. He says, if Bob gives me permission, I will share them with you. And you would be the very first person I ever share them with. So I said, of course I'll ask Bob. So I connected them back together. They hadn't talked in a long time. So they were super happy just to connect. Bob said, no problem.

You could give them all to Luigi. He just said, asked me. He says, look, he goes, there's a couple of things in there that are not to be put. Obviously he's getting hypnotized, private stuff of his life and whatever. In those documents. And I'm not saying I'm going to be making them public if they don't want, because it's, it's actually unethical to do so. So I'm not going to do something like that unless they say, sure, go ahead. And I would always need both of them to vet it because it's Bob's life plus it's Lane's work.

So it's not, but I got to read them. I think I even shared some with you. And there's information about, about Jesus and who he is and where it comes from and why he was left here. I mean, it's very strange. It's very strange. It's very strange. And why would it be in government documents? Yeah.

So who knows? Yeah. Who knows, you know? I don't know, but I'm having fun trying to figure it out. Oh. You know what I mean? Yeah. Getting to the answer, I feel, would just like, it's kind of like the, in the Hitchhiker's Guide of the Galaxy, the book by Douglas Adams, there's this machine that they use to punish people.

and it's called the total perspective vortex. And what it does is that it puts you in perspective of how small, infinitesimately small you are compared to the vastness of the universe. And you start to comprehend it. And the fact that you comprehend it literally drives you crazy and it like blows your mind, literally blows your mind. You become completely useless.

And I feel like the answer might be akin to the total perspective vortex. And so I, you know, although the pursuit of it, I think is healthy. I think the most unhealthy thing is probably finding out what it is. I think so. In fact, it's almost similar to what my dad told me at a certain point before he passed. And I remember I went and visited him

and he was in a hospital, but he sat up and looked at me and he says, I've learned so many things in this life that I've learned that I haven't learned anything yet. And he says, I understood, sorry, because I'm saying it from Italian, I've understood so many things in this life that I've understood that I haven't understood anything yet. Which is, yeah, very a socratic circle as well. Yeah, yeah, full circle, you know. That is some good, good philosophy, some healthy philosophy that he had there at the end of his life. Yeah. All right, Luigi, we're going to take some questions from the audience. I mean, let's go.

First of all, hey, before we do that, thank you for sharing all that. It's first time. It's the, it's like the second time I've heard this story in full. Yeah. And it blows my mind. And it's one of those things that like when you hear, you know, there is a small faction of sort of skeptical individuals who will pick apart every single little thing. Oh, they will. And that's okay.

We need those people in life. And there are people that are going to go the other way and completely take it as some dogmas. Yeah. And both are dangerous. Both are dangerous. And I think both should be approached in, you know, similar skeptical ways. And, you know, we just kind of have to find the middle ground here. But regardless of any of that, it's such a cool story.

It is. It's the coolest story. It is. Because now we have another question. And I think that's what makes it a cool story. Not because we have some type of answer or because we have a cool story. or because we have a puzzle piece, but because now we have another question.

And a question is exciting. That's why I love this stuff, not for the answers. The answers are... Because it's the expansion. Yes. I say this to people and they take it the wrong way. Answers are inconsequential. They will not fulfill you.

They will not give you what you desire. What will give you what you desire is the ability to ask a new question. And that is so vital, in a space that feels saturated that feels sort of overdone. A new question is gold. That's true. And it's just, it's so invigorating. And so thank you for sharing that.

Speaking of new questions, I'm going to go turn on this camera. Obi-1, there are a lesser-known UFO slash abduction case that you feel has been overlooked or is worthy of greater scrutiny. It's a good question. Do you feel like there's one that the public eye might be aware of? I think, well, I mean, abduction, I know that you're a big fan of the Gulf Breeze stuff. We touched on that a little bit. Do you think that that merits a second look? Yes, 100%.

100%. There's no question in my mind. It merits a second look. What gives you that impression? There was just too many people in Gulf Breeze that had seen the craft flying around there in 1987, 88, 89. There was just too many people. And if there were not so many people in Gulf Breeze that would have seen that craft, I would have said maybe it is a hoax, maybe he did make it all up. It does look like superimposed images in some cases. So, you know, I remember that case very, very well. Bruce McAbee, I remember at the time, Bruce McAbee, who's no longer with us, had investigated the images. And the one image of that craft low to the ground near the road, he had determined. deemed it 100% authentic.

He was very serious about that. I remember that and that had gotten my attention. In addition to that image, there were, I think, two to 300 people in Gulf Breeze who seen saw the craft. You can't make that up. You can't invent two, three hundred people. There's not going to be a, nobody's going to believe

that you managed to do that unless it's a film. Okay, unless you're filming and they're all actors and they all got paid and their, you know, non-disclosure agreements. And I mean, that's not what happened. There's also video. There is. I have one. There's like, yeah, but there's also daytime video.

Oh, yeah, yeah. But I have one video. The nighttime one. It's, I saw that one. It's solid. Yeah. It's a solid video. It is solid.

And the daytime one, too, of the one just taken off. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. That one. It's, that's one of my favorite videos. Yeah. That's why I say, we need to find Ed Walters. I haven't heard.

heard from him anymore. And I would love a deeper dive in a golf breeze. I'd love road trip to Florida. Oh, absolutely. I'm down. Anytime. For that, I'm down 100%. Yeah, I could, I could use vacation. Yeah. All right. Quite human. Is there any aspect of the phenomena that you've uncovered that you think is vital for people to understand? Any aspect of the phenomenon that you've uncovered that you think is vital for people to understand? Yes. So I think one of the things that is extremely vital, depending on what part of we're looking at, and if we're going to talk about, if we're going to talk about the beings, okay, we're not going to talk about the craft, you know, the technology, because that's a separate, it's like, like Bob says, I don't care about the beings that care about the technology. I care about the beings. The technology is absolutely incredible, but I care about the beings. And to me is we have to every single time we hear anyone talking about this phenomenon as far as who is this. And, you know, we also hear it from the vice president and says maybe they're demons or we're hearing all sorts of things. This is not one species. This is not one type.

So if there's one thing that I remembered when I left, all this and I said there will be no answers not just not because it's hard to get an answer it's because we can't even get an answer out of humans imagine our species

has multiple agendas now imagine multiple species with multiple agendas and there are some of these species that have technology that render them independent of all authority Never forget that.

If they can bend space, time, and gravity, they are no longer relying on an authority. They can do whatever they want. It is literally the power of the universe in your hand. So we should never forget that not only are we not alone, but there's a lot out there, and they're not all the same. Yeah. I think Lindemol and Howe touched on this one.

I thought it was a really interesting concept, but she said that, you know, what if some of these aliens are impersonating other aliens? Also, it's a good, fuck. That's like, you know, I wasn't ready for that. Blows your mind, right? I was not ready for that. Yeah. Being a reality. But of course, it could be.

Why not? You know? Absolutely. If you're sitting here being like, oh, the gray's hurt me. And you're like, no, the graze are benevolent. Yeah, it's because you got the, those weren't gray. Yeah. Those were the mantets.

And they were putting a mental projection of the graze in your head. They were working alongside the, and you're like, I don't know. know where to go with this stuff. That's exactly what, what do you call it? Think about Travis Walton, you know? Yeah, yeah. There's like two different beings in the same curve. Or are they two different?

Are they two different? Or are they the same and one made himself look like he was? How do we know? Yeah, so strange. Yeah. And the last one here by Stan B. Great questions, by the always great questions. Yes.

Mufon get told to keep certain cases quiet if they could be revealing secret military craft. Well, I will say public, like the right answer is no, okay? And I'm pretty sure that 99% of Mufon people, individuals at the head office and around all of the Mufon offices around the world would say no. But when I was there, I had a bad feeling about certain people that were in charge at Mufon at Mufon at the time. And I did not trust them at all. And my, uh, my six cents ended up being pretty accurate. So yeah, I would be, uh, I would be very cautious with any organization that is, uh, in charge of getting all information on UFOs or flying saucers or aliens or anything like that. To me, uh, there's, that's, that's like the, the, that's a hundred percent where

If I were an... It's a funnel. It's a funnel. If I was the intelligence community, I would 100% infiltrate that. A hundred percent. We can assume they have. They have their claws and everything.

Absolutely. Whether it's, you know, TV and whatnot. And I don't have any evidence of it, so it sounds like conspiratorial, but I don't care. To some level, even if it's not participatory, even if it's only monitoring. Yeah. Do you know what I mean?

Like for national security purposes, if you believe that the phenomenon is real. Yeah. And if you believe that the government is aware of the phenomenon, then you have to also believe that the government is aware of things investigating the phenomenon. Absolutely. Right. And it's a natural conclusion. And I don't know if you know about that. I'm sure you do, but you know the story about Robert Bigelow and Mufon?

No. So there's a, there's in the past, Robert Bigelow gave Mufon a lot of money. And the caveat to it was he was going to receive all the case information before everybody else. A little baller move. So, you know, I mean, that, that I know was true. And we know Bigelow's ties. Yeah, so who knows, right? So is it always the same groups?

Is it different groups? Is it a moving machine? Is it fluid? Yeah, that's the thing. But to, you know, to maybe countering. rack that a little bit. They never seemed to need Mufon. No, they didn't.

They were first on a scene. Yeah, absolutely. In most cases, you know, somebody would be out at night smoking a cigarette at two in the morning, see a giant craft over their head. And the first thing in the morning, they haven't told anybody. Yeah, and they're there. And someone's like, you didn't see anything. Absolutely.

Yeah. Which, by the way, brings me to close this off by saying, I believe that somebody in the I believe that the TETs or this technology I don't know who it is but I believe that that technology which I also believe

ended up in the hands of some human component of society whether it be government contract whoever it is humans got their hands on it has some type of radar that can perceive consciousness

not just little pieces of metal in the sky. I think they can read people. Sure. I think that. Yeah, I would also go on a limb and say that I'm pretty sure they have tech that can predict interactions to a very high degree. Yeah. Using some type of quantum interface.

Absolutely. Using some type of probability generator. And it is highly accurate. And I'm pretty sure that that's, you know, well, We talk when we talk about looking glass and this type of stuff. Yeah. You know, I had a guy reach out and he left a message on one of these episodes. And I followed up with them.

And, you know, he said, hey, so-and-so. And I work for an unacknowledged special access program. And I was like, okay, interesting. And he's, you know, he's a contractor. He's not in the military or anything. And so he's like, I don't want to come forward because we don't have the same protections. Not that those protections work for military people, let's be honest. But he said, you know, he gave me this, like, really crazy story of how he wasn't a skiff and, like, this being appeared and, like, whatever.

But then he goes, we have stuff that I'm going to be careful. And I'm pretty sure he told me things that, like, because I told him, by the way. I was like, please do not tell me anything. You're not allowed to tell me. Right. I don't want to be in trouble. Right. I don't want you to be in trouble.

Right. And let's just keep everything overboard here. Absolutely. And I was very, very. because the last thing I want to do again to be a target for the national security and end up like one of these scientists. You know what I mean?

Like why? Yeah. Um, so I, you know, I want to, I want to do it in the way that, that actually helps people. So I say, can you please just tell me in the best way that you can without giving anything away that would like give you away or give away the project or what you guys are doing? And he goes, yeah, and this is what he told me. He goes, the systems. that we have. He goes, I think are of non-human origin. And I go, why do you think that? Like, why do you, what makes you so, you know, convinced of that? And he says, they're predictive. He goes, we were aware of like an incursion from an enemy three hours before. And this is before the enemy even knew that they were going to go.

Yeah. And I go, oh, yeah, that sounds like alien tech for sure. But it also sounds like some predictive quantum computer. Like if you think of quantum computing and how we're trying to get there, know that the government, whatever we're doing right now, they're 30 years ahead. Yeah. Exponentially speaking in technology, 30 years is a million years. Absolutely. You know, in time. I mean, yeah. Given to. So they're for sure dabbling with this stuff. So we're, we're. We're. We're. We're. We're. We're. We're. We're. We're. We're. We're. Whether it's derived from NHA or not, it certainly feels that way to us now. You know, so I do think that, yeah, they have something. I will say this to that specifically about that, which could be something maybe related to looking glass and that he figured something out. But if you think about it, and I was even saying this on Rogan when I was on the show, and it's, I'm going to go into a little bit more detail here. But if you have a computer system, the computer system, whether it's a quantum computer, or not, it is computing. A computer system does just that. It computes. It has a million trillion operations that it has to compute to provide you some type of data, right? Everything has to do with

speed. Everything has to do with time. We are constantly trying to make that computing faster. That way, we have an answer faster, right? Because that's what it's all about. That's the reason why we haven't gotten to interstellar travel is because we're still not fast enough in computing. If you have a technology like they had at S4, where if you consider the reactor, which is being utilized for propulsion purposes, but could be utilized for other reasons as well. So they had looking glass and sidekick. And if you consider looking glass, it's time dilation. Or it's, it's the observation of time dilation.

of time dilation. If you are able to integrate that technology in a computer, not in a traveling, in a computer, if the candle froze at S4, but you could still see the photons, if there's a black hole because you can remove light, and there's nothing happening there, if the mechanical watch that was put by the emitter stops ticking

because it stops time. Could we not utilize the technology to create the fastest computer ever where it will predict the future simply because it's stopping time? So something that would need 18 million years to compute can happen instantly with something like this integrated. Yeah, time isn't...

Time doesn't count. anymore. So I certainly believe that they messed with that because it's an incredible weapon. Yeah. It's a quantum computer. Absolutely. And, you know, explaining a quantum computer to someone 100 years ago would look like, yeah, like a looking glass. Yeah, yeah. Right. Stare into the magical mirror. Right. Yeah. That's what it would look like. Yeah, absolutely. All right, Luigi, Ventelli. Thank you so much. Also, I want to do something. Let me know if this is okay. I thought maybe we do like a giveaway or something. Sure. Let's do it. For some of the people listening, some of the members here because, you know, you guys are always chiming in and I want to give you guys an opportunity. So what do you say like you got you got some posters? Absolutely. We'll give posters. Okay. Yeah. So if you guys want to, oh, whoa. Oh, timing. Timing. Wow. That's cool. If you guys want to win some posters, first of all, you got to be a member. So it's a members thing over here and just leave a comment. I'll grab some of you there.

And then we'll send you. We'll hook you guys up with some S4 posters courtesy of Luigi and S4, the Bob Lazar story. Go check it out. Go check out. Juana, we are not alone.com. It's a very exciting platform. I'm looking forward to helping being a part of it, but also seeing it grow. I think it's really great.

And thanks so much for your time, Luigi. Thank you. I really appreciate it.