AREA52 - DEBRIEFED With Chris Ramsay - The Truth about Betty & Barney Hill’s Haunting Journey - DEBRIEFED ep. 56

Episode Date: October 3, 2025

AREA 52 Shop: https://www.area52.shopCaptured by Kathleen Marden: https://www.kathleen-marden.com/kathys-bookstore.phpOn September 19, 1961, Betty and Barney Hill reported that they were abducted by extraterrestrials while driving from Montreal back to their home in Portsmouth, New Hampshire. 64 years later, I retraced their exact route, leaving Montreal at the same time, passing through the same towns, and arriving at the same spot in Franconia Notch where history changed forever.Along the way, I sat down with Kathleen Marden, Betty’s niece and one of the world’s foremost UFO researchers, to hear her perspective on her aunt and uncle’s story. I also explored portions of the original regression hypnosis tapes, which reveal chilling details from that night that continue to fascinate and disturb researchers.This is more than just a road trip. It is a journey into the most famous alien abduction case in history, seen through the same headlights on the same night six decades later.

On the night of September 19, 1961, Betty and Barney Hill were driving home to Port Smith, New Hampshire, when they claimed they were taken aboard a craft, not of this earth. Their story became one of the most famous and controversial abduction cases in history, a case that still echoes through UFO research to this day. 64 years later, my friend Nelson and I set to retrace their exact pilgrimage, from Montreal down through the mountains of New Hampshire, on the same date at the same hour to step directly into their path, to see what they saw, and to feel the weight of that night for ourselves.

And to help us tell this story, with the depth it deserves, I reached out to Betty Hill's own niece, Kathleen Martin, one of the foremost experts on her aunt's case and a voice that has carried the Hill legacy forward for decades. This is our journey into the unknown, following the footsteps of Betty and Barney Hill. Well, I have never stopped investigating Betty and Barney's case, and so I have always sought out scientists who had laboratories and could do a scientific analysis of the evidence. I have always delved deeper and deeper into archival records.

Also, investigation of their case myself, to carrying it to the furthest extent. possible. So back when Stanton Friedman and I published our first book in 2007, we had a certain amount of information and evidence that we had collected to that point. But over the years, much more has taken place. Betty and Barney Hill were an interracial couple living in Portsmouth, New Hampshire. Betty was a social worker. Barney was a postal clerk and civil rights advocate. In mid-September, 1961, they embarked on a spontaneous road trip to Montreal and Niagara Falls. The journey was unplanned, and they traveled without formal reservations, choosing motels as they went. What they experienced on their return journey changed their lives forever.

So why did they take this trip? Well, Betty and Barney were visiting my childhood home. In August of 1961, I had been to Niagara's. with Betty's sister and her husband, my aunt and uncle, another one, and my cousin. And I was showing them my photographs of Niagara Falls and talking about how much I enjoyed the trip. And Barney turned to Betty and said, do you think you'd like to go there sometime? And he decided to surprise her with this trip to Niagara Falls. They went on to Montreal and had an enjoyable time.

They were just tourists, you know, having a great time together, enjoying one another's company, doing that kind of thing. And then they were going to spend the night in Montreal, but they had their dog with them. And so they were going to have to stay on the outskirts of the city. And Barney was driving toward that area. There was heavy traffic. It was late in the afternoon.

and people were getting out of work. And Barney decided that he would just continue driving. And then if they grew tired, they could stop for the night. On the evening of September 19, they began their return drive from Montreal, heading south through Vermont and into New Hampshire. Their route took them along, U.S. Route 3, a scenic but isolated stretch winding through the White Mountains. Folks, I am currently on my way to Betty and Barney,

Hill's house. Today is September 19th, the exact day that Benny and Barney Hill left from Montreal to New Hampshire and where their famous story begins. I'm not doing this trip alone. I'm doing this trip with Nelson. He's on a phone call right now, but together we are going to try and retrace the steps. We've mapped out every single stop that they've taken along the way. So first off is going to be Coets Cook, Quebec, which is a small town. in Quebec. This is before we crossed the border into the United States. They stopped there for a quick snack. There was a stop before they went to Coatacook. Really? At a hot dog stand. And then they stopped again at Coatacook because the language, the menu was in French.

They just kind of pointed to what they wanted and they received something different than they thought they were going to get. So they got they got potato chips instead of French fries. Right. This is the last stop before the border. And it's funny because we found this diner. There are a few restaurants in this town. Not very many. It's a small town.

But we found this particular diner and asked a guy who's working at the cash as like, how long has it been around? And he said at least the 60s. And so there's a big chance that this might have been the actual diner that Betty and Barney Hill stopped at. But they were so off put by the French because they came from Montreal where, you know, generally bilingual. But out in these little townships, they're primarily French. And so something got lost in translation and were actually served potato chips instead of fries, making it, you know, a bit of a modest meal.

It was 172 miles to customs in Canaan. They stopped for a brief snack in Cody Cook, and it ends in a French-English menu mix-up. They continue south and pass U.S. Customs at Canaan at approximately 9 p.m. All right, we just crossed the border from Canada into. Vermont. The tiniest of border patrols, just one guy in a tiny little house. I wish you would have filmed it. I know. He was curious about what we were doing here, and we explained the whole thing, and then we just asked him if he had any experiences out here, and he went into this whole story about his, was his father-in-law? His father-in-law in the late

70s. Well, him and his now to see his wife had seen something walking on the ground in this area, like not just something in the sky. Did he say also that he said there was a craft and then there was beings on the ground. Yeah, and he said big heads. Yeah, I asked him, like, is there any features? These big sort of round heads. Yeah. And I asked him if he would be willing to be on camera and talk about it.

He's like, I don't, you know, you can tell he was very reluctant. Yeah. But man, we just crossed the border. Yeah. And we get a story like that. Oh, my God. So cool. I have done investigations in that part of New Hampshire.

When I lived in New Hampshire, I no longer do. there were many reports. I should say several, you know, not many, but several reports of either abductions or close encounters. And right before we crossed the border, too, like, it was just golden hour, it was beautiful. And we started listening to some music that was, I don't know, what would you say? I'd say like meditation music. Yeah, meditative music. I don't know, we were just alone, nothing on the street, nobody driving by us.

And Chris goes, show us something. Come on, give us a sign. We're here. And then I shit you not like barely a minute later there was a baby moose that just came on the road. I've never seen one before in person. And of all times for it to show up, it just like ran with us as we drove by it. It was beautiful and majestic. You know, you're out here to see aliens.

But here's something that's alien to you. Here's something you've never seen that's on your own planet. You know, you're so worried about what's out there in the universe that you forget. there's so many beautiful things that you haven't even seen here. From here, it's 185 miles to Portsmouth. The ETA is about 2 or 3 a.m., if all goes well. They reached Coldbrook, New Hampshire, and stopped at Howard's restaurant. We stopped in Caldbrook and had a lunch and had gas put in the cab

because we knew we'd be heading down Route 3 through the White Mountain National Forest. Barney ordered a cheeseburger, Betty, a chocolate cake and coffee. They checked their watches, 10.05 p.m. The night was still young and the road ahead was clear. It was Howard's restaurant, and it did have a counter and it had a dining room. And so they sat at the counter. And the Barney ordered a hamburger and Betty had a piece of chocolate cake and a cup of coffee. They both had coffee to carry them through their ride, their drive home. And this was an important stop, not for, you know, nothing. big happen at the stop, but it was a point where they remember looking at the time.

Yeah, they looked at the time on the clock, and they looked at the time on their watches. Their watches were running. They wound their watches. They did everything they needed to do to prepare for that drive home. We already got our food. We're good. I guess they didn't like the chips that they were served at this other place so that they came here and had a nice American burger instead.

Regression session number one for Barney. Barney begins by recounting the final leg of the trip from Montreal. He's calm, but guarded, describing the drive-through Vermont and into New Hampshire. The road is quiet, the night cool. He notes the isolation of the mountain pass and the occasional stops to let Delsey, their dog, out. In Betty's third regression session, she recounts the light. Betty's first session mirrors the drive. She's more composed, more cautious.

She notes a bright star in the sky. This was a normal star, and she didn't take much notice. But later, she would notice a large, bright light nearby to this star, a light that wasn't there previously. And this caught her attention. It wasn't until they were south of Lancaster, New Hampshire, where Betty saw a new light in the sky. and it moved in a way that she'd never seen before,

so she started to watch it to try to identify what it was. So my wife remarked, I was driving the car, and you remarked that the star had began to move. So this caused me to look through the windshield up toward the sky, and I told her that it was probably a satellite. Nothing to get alarmed about. We did have a pair of 7x50 crescent binoculars with us that we got out and she took the binoculars and was looking at the object

and I reached under the seat to get our little doggy, a little doxen, and put the chain on her to walk her about while my wife was looking at the object. All of a sudden, I saw what I thought was a new star in the sky. While I'm watching this, it began to move. So we knew it was a satellite. So we stopped the car to get out with the binoculars to look. look at the satellite. And while we're watching this, it turned and started to come in towards them.

But that object started following their vehicle and came in closer and closer. So they made three stops just so that Barney could look at it. But they didn't leave the car on those other stops. They might have just stopped in the side of the road or in the middle of the road. There wasn't much traffic on the road that night. It moved erratically. erratically, arcing across the stars. She watched it with growing curiosity. Barney, ever the skeptic, dismissed it as a plane or satellite. But the light didn't behave like any aircraft they knew.

It shifted, hovered, and seemed to follow them. We just left Howard's restaurant where Betty and Barney Hill shared a little dinner, and now we're on, what is this? What road is this? Route 3. Route 3. So about 30 miles south of where we just were, and about, yeah, about 20 miles. from here, Betty notices something in the sky. This is the first sighting. We have our night vision camera. At some point, we're going to stop. We're going to do some sky watching.

Maybe we'll see something. We're going to pull over soon and we'll have a look, but we're right on time. If something's going to happen, it's going to be tonight. Yeah. Currently filming on my night vision camera because that's the Milky Way, folks. Just decided because the sky

was so visible. There's a lot of traffic, unfortunately. This is probably the best night sky I've ever seen. You think so? Yeah. Like, that's the Milky Way right there, man. That's crazy. Betty has a bit of a curious nature about her.

She's definitely, seems to be someone who, you know, has a more, like, sort of wondrous attitude and, like, hey, what is this? This is unique. This seems abnormal. whereas Barney certainly meets her with a little bit more skepticism towards these things. And he was definitely, you know, trying to convince her maybe himself at the same time that this was just sort of a prosaic object, like some plane or satellite. Absolutely. He was giving her a hard time, which he enjoyed doing. He chuckled about this.

He loved to tease Betty. He believed it was impossible. whereas Betty wasn't certain. She thought that it could be true. But she had never read any books on it or watched any shows on it or anything like that. So, you know, that was her position. She was curious. I'm curious too.

She recalls urging Barney to stop. She's frustrated by his skepticism. She wants to understand what she's seen. Betty's excitement grew. She eventually convinced Barney to stop, and the pair pulled over near Mount Cleveland picnic area. We continued driving south, and my wife would occasionally remark that this object was still following us. It was flying in a very erratic pattern, and she wanted me to stop, and I would occasionally, and look over, and the light was still out there moving about.

It would go up, and then it would come down in very rapid in odd patterns of flight. I'm watching this through the binoculars. Very unusual. Zigzagging, acting like a yo-yo, going up and down, spinning. She convinced Barney to pull over south of Twin Mountain,

which is north of Franconi Annach. She used the excuse that the dog needed to be walked. And otherwise, Barney would not have stopped. So they got out of the car, and since they were in a wilderness area and there were wild animals, that might possibly come out of the woods at night.

And he was walking the dog and relieving himself. He went into the wheel well of the trunk and took out a weapon that he had put there when they were packing to leave on their trip. We are currently at where Barney took the dog out for a walk. It says it's like a scenic area. It's literally right on the highway. and then there's a trail that says it leads into the dark woods

and it says toilet two miles I took two steps into the forest and it was dark and I heard us down and I'm like no thank you so instead what we're going to do is we're going to find a dirt path somewhere get off the main road because right now it's a little early

and I feel like if we're going to see something it's going to happen after midnight Barney walks Delsey while Betty peered through binoculars. The object was closer now. silent, luminous, and deliberate in its movements. She expressed irritation at Barney, who seemed to be trying to ignore what was happening

and refusing to believe. It almost reads like, if I don't admit it, it's not real. Despite recalling this is strange, I cannot tell, I cannot hear a motor, he convinces himself that this is just a plane. Barney, that is not. One mile south of Cannon Mountain.

They stopped again. The craft hovered beside the old man of the mountain, a rock profile etched into the cliffside. It spun like a top, tilted vertically, and descended in a stair-step motion. Barney described it as a ball bouncing on a paddle. I think of the rubber. It's a ball. The ball goes straight out and comes straight back.

This was a spot where they truly realized that there was no prosaic explanation for this observation. of an aerial vehicle because the old man of the mountains profile is 48 feet from forehead to chin. And this craft was at least one and a half times the length of the profile. And it had a twinkling effect because it was rotating. And then it started to bounce back and forth in the sky. Now, today, military officers who have seen these things, compare it to a ping pong ball.

So we just got to Old Man of the Mountain. It's this massive mountain that you're seeing here. This is shot with the night vision camera. Trying to be too loud. There's people here parked here as well. I don't know if they're also trying to reroute Betty and Barney Hills abduction. But a little bit of sky watching actually just a second ago. and as we were looking up we saw a few meteors you know whatever shooting stars but then there was this like clear flash

in the sky that wasn't it was just one flash and I was like oh that's weird what was that you saw it too right it flashed like three times didn't film it in time but don't really know you know it's a flash what are we talking about here space debris maybe I don't know now while passing near the old man of the mountain they had good direct line of sight to the object as it moved between the mountain peaks. One of the mountain peaks was right here. That's what I was filming. The other mountain peak, my guess would be on the other side. So this would have been exactly where they saw this craft. This location is critical because this is where it turned from curiosity for Betty and Barney Hill

into fear. This is where the tension started growing, where they started to get scared. It wasn't It wasn't just a light in the sky anymore. Now this became something that clearly was following them and observing them. I don't see even like one satellite. Huh? Not one. Even with this clarity, you'd see it. You'd see, yeah, it's so weird.

I'm not saying that that's anomalous. I'm just saying that's very strange. Like not even one satellite in here. I see a blinking something there. Oh yeah. Let me zoom into that. Oh, what is that? Oh yeah.

It's way too high to be a plane. How strange. It's way up there. Do you see it? Yeah, I don't know. Like, it's so faint. I'll show you the footage after. And it doesn't seem to be moving in a straight line.

Oh, yeah. It almost seems like it's like teleporting back and forth. It's so bizarre. Dude, that's so... high up. What is it? So strange. Come see this. Yeah. I think it's stopped. It's gone. I think it's gone. Can you point till a bigger star is just orient me? The movement was unnatural, controlled, and eerily silent. Betty was transfixed. Barney was stunned. The craft was no longer a curiosity. It was a presence. They left Franconia notch.

They passed Indian Head and the Indian Head Resort. Betty observed a man standing in the window of one of the cabins, smoking a cigarette. And then they were about a mile south of Indian Head when the craft swooped down. They reported that now that... the craft was as large as a dinner plate held at arm's length. Keep in mind that the full moon is the size of an aspirin held at arm's length. So this is in the original reports, the documented evidence, the testimony that Betty and Barney gave to Paul Henderson, the officer at Pease Air Force Base. The state of New Hampshire erected a historical marker.

to commemorate this historical event. It says Betty and Barney Hill incident on the night of September 19th and 20th, 1961, which is tonight, Portsmouth, New Hampshire, couple Betty and Barney Hill experienced a close encounter with an unidentified flying object and two hours of lost time while driving south on Route 3 near Lincoln. They filed an official Air Force Project Blue Book report of a brightly lit cigar-shaped craft the next day. But were not public with their story

until it was leaked in the Boston Traveler in 1965. This was the first widely reported UFO abduction report in the United States. How cool is this? The fact that a sign says Project Blue Book, Unidentified Flying Object. At this point in the night, they were exhausted, they'd been driving,

it was super late at night. and they were trying to push through to get home in Portsmouth still quite a ways away so by the time they reached here they were being well followed very closely by this one particular object now what happened here this is where things escalated quite rapidly and dramatically but the light they'd been watching suddenly plunge downward rapidly descending in front of the car yeah imagine it was no longer just the light Barney could now see the outline of the structure like craft itself it wasn't just just a light anymore. Whoa. Yeah, then the UFO stopped hovering over the treetops just ahead of them and blocked their path. Betty remains in the car, this time, noting that they had stopped in a bad spot. Barney leaves the car and heads toward a field closer to the craft. Using binoculars, Barney takes a closer look.

At this point in the hypnotic regression, Barney insists that he wants to wake up. Dr. Simon calms Barney, reminding him that no harm can come to him during these sessions. that he will not wake up, that he will remember. At this, Barney begins to remember lots of detail, his voice shaking. It's all right, I've got to get my gun. Through the binoculars, Barney saw beings inside the craft. And so he described rows of figures in the window of the craft, under hypnosis later on, and he said they were not human.

There's a man. And then he's... She described Barney's observation of figures dressed in black, shiny uniforms that were somehow just so frightening that he had developed a block after that regarding the appearance of their faces. He knew they were dressed in black, shiny uniforms. moved in unison, in, you know, not saying they were military officers, but they did move in unison, and only one remained at the window.

He had a black scarf around his neck dangling over his left shoulder. How did you see these figures so clearly at that distance? I was looking at him with binoculars. Oh. His eyes were slanted. I see it so. Oh, my eyes are flamaged. One man, he surmises, is clearly the leader.

His uniform, different. He has a scarf. And the other beings seem to be continuing work in the background, whilst the leader catches Barney's gaze. He finds himself unable to look away. Barney feels he will stand there forever if he cannot look away. It takes a lot of mental effort for Barney to be able to break the gaze. He felt from what he was observing that, this was a huge threat to him, that they had a plan and that that plan was to capture him.

This creature, this leader is telling me something. Stay there and keep looking. Just keep looking and stay there and just keep looking. Just keep looking. Could you hear any tell you? Oh, I got to pull these binoculars away from my eyes. Because if I don't, I'll just keep staying there. Would you hear him tell you this?

Oh, no, he didn't say it. You felt he said it. I know. You know he didn't. There, yeah. Just stay there. He's saying to me. All right.

I'll think of my head. All right. Pull the binoculars away. God, give me a stress. All right. Pull him down. Pull these men off the dog. My God, give me strength.

I got to get him. During Betty's hypnotic regression sessions, she recalls this experience from her perspective. I kept waiting and waiting and Barney didn't come back. And I was sitting there waiting and I looked. It was dark there. There weren't any streetlights or anything. I noticed that when I looked out, he was quite a distance from the car. And he was still going away from the car.

So I leaned over the front seat, and I was saying, Barney, come back here. Barney, you damn fool, get back here. Oh, come back. If the damn fool out there doesn't come back, I'm going out after him. And I'm hollering, Barney. And I start to slide across. I was going to get out in his side of the car because that door was still open a little bit. And just as I started to slide across the seat, and I got the door most of the way open, he came. He was running.

Like mad. Down the street, when I saw him coming, I sat up, and it was lucky I did because he threw the binoculars in the car and they landed on the seat beside me. And he was hysterical. He was, I don't know if he was laughing or crying. But he said that they were going to capture us. We had to get the hell out of there.

Drops the binoculars screaming to Betty, they're going to capture us. Back to the car. Yeah. So now they have, they sprint back to the car. He and Betty speed away down Route 3, at full throttle, and as they fled, this is when they start hearing these strange beeping or buzzing sounds in their car. Betty and Barney heard a series of code-like buzzing sounds on the trunk of their

vehicle as they went speeding down the highway. And it caused the car to vibrate and for them to sense an electrical tingling sensation. And Betty actually felt the mess. of the car, but didn't receive an electric shock, fortunately. The sounds were mechanical, rhythmic, and invasive. Both felt a vibration through their bodies, a tingling sensation that they struggled to explain. Then, silence. The next thing they knew, they were 30 to 35 miles down the highway, somewhere on Route 93, from what I've been able to gather

or very close to Route 93. They heard a second series of these buzzing sounds, code-like buzzing sounds, that Barney compared to the sound of a tuning fork being dropped. And they had vague memories. Betty recalled a vague impression, a roadblock, a red-orange orb, a forested dirt road,

but the craft was gone. They went back. Time and time. again for the next couple of years trying to jog their memories, trying to find that dirt road with the tall trees. Apparently this is it. This is where they got taken. This is terrifying. This is terrifying. Right here. Right. You have a ride. Head west. And now it's telling us to turn around. I'll stick around here for much long.

On their return home, they try to document everything they can remember. But it's not a lot. It's vague and disjointed. And it wasn't until after their hypnosis sessions with Dr. Benjamin Simon that they were actually able to find it. And this is the encounter at 1135 p.m. We've been driving. I don't know how long. We haven't even been talking with. I just been sitting and feeling it something's going to happen.

She describes the car stalling and refusing to start. as the beings approached the car. I wasn't afraid, I wasn't afraid when I saw the middle of the room. He stopped and started to come up to the car. They separated. They came up in two groups. And when they started to do that, behind me, inside of him, he's walking and he's asleep.

Barley, why don't you wake up? They assisted him out of his car. He recalls keeping his eyes very tightly shut. tightly shut, telling himself that he has to. Don't open them. I don't want to be operated on. Because my eyes are closed, and I think I am going up a slight incline. My feet are not bumping on the rocks, but I'm afraid to open my eyes.

I have been told to keep my eyes closed. Who told you that? The man was what good? That I saw a physical anarchist. On the physical interactions, Barney notes a distinct act of physicality. Whilst he knows that the beings helped him out of his car, it was like he couldn't feel them, despite knowing that they had a hold of him,

almost as if he was floating. Again, his eyes remained firmly shut. Betty's examination. Betty describes being approached by beings, describing them as short, uniformed figures with large prominent eyes. They communicate without speaking. She's not afraid, just bewildered. She repeats the recollection of being led into a craft. The interior is sterile, metallic, and oddly shaped. She's examined. Her skin is scraped and her limbs are manipulated. A needle is inserted into her abdomen. Not very high, but I'll say high to the desk.

I lie down on the table, on my back, over this cluster of needles. And each needle has a... So then they roll me over on my back. I said it hasn't blown him in his head. It's near than any needle I've ever seen. I ask him what he's going to do with it. This is simple, that's simple turning. He just wants to put it in my navel.

It's just a simple death. Oh, it will hurt. And I tell her it's hurting, it's hurting, it's hurting, and hurting. And then the leader, he goes over, and he puts his hand, and runs his hand in front of my eyes. And he says, I'll be all right. I won't feel it. Our examinations are very much similar in that with both Bonnie and I,

they checked her eyes, ears, nose, throat, took samples of a hair, fingernail, and they scraped our skin. With me, they touched my body with little points on wires. He said he was checking my nervous system. And then they attempted to insert a needle-like instrument in my navel. I objected that it would hurt, and he said it shouldn't hurt. When he did this, it caused a great deal of pain. He said it was a pregnancy test, and I said, well, that's no pregnancy test.

test here. After the needle incident, Betty was helped to a seated position, and they declared an end to the testing for the time being. The other beings left the room, leaving Betty alone with the leader. Help me get up off the table, and I swing around, and he gave me my shoes, and I put those on. Oh, I said, I can go now. I can go back to the... And he said, Bonnie isn't ready yet. She asks questions. The being responds mentally.

She exclaims that this is an amazing experience and that nobody will believe her. She asks for evidence to take with her. The aliens take her to choose something, and Betty chooses a book, which they agree to let her take. And this was later taken back by the beings before the pair were released. Quite an experience I want.

If he could give me something to take back, then people would believe it. And so he told me to look around and maybe I could find something I would like to tell. There was a book, my hand on the book, and I said, could I have this? And so he said that I could have the book if I wanted it and I picked it up and I was delighted She's also shown a star map

depicting the origin of the beings She doesn't make sense of it But commits it to memory He did something He opened up, did something in the metal of the wall He pulled out Asked me, he ever seen a map, I leaned against the table, and I looked at it.

And it was a map of, it was a, and he said that the heavy lines would trade routes. And then places they went occasionally, expeditions. At some point during this conversation with the leader, some of the other beings reentered the room and begin tugging at her teeth. They are confused as to why Barney's came out, but hers are. stuck. It was futile to try and explain the concept of dentures to an alien race, but Betty tried. It devolved into a discussion on the meaning of getting old and of age. It derailed further when Betty tried to explain that good food can help preserve teeth and the beings had no concept of what a vegetable was. How do you explain something so alien to an alien? Here's a passage

from Betty's regression describing this very interaction. asked me open my mouth, and he starts checking my teeth. And they're talking. They couldn't think I didn't. Then they asked me what were dangerous. Betty insisted that while she struggled communicating with the beings, there are people far smarter than she who would love to speak to them. She urged them to speak to the right people.

There are other people in this country that they would be most happy to talk. She recalls on being dropped off that the beings took the book from her. The book she was promised she could keep. She felt angry. The leader explained that they wish her not to remember anything. And so they cannot let her keep the book. Betty remained resolute, insisting that she would remember, that her mind would not be broken so easily.

The leader comes over and I said, you promised me I could have the book. You gave me a word I could have it. And he said, I know it. The others object. They don't want you to have it. And I said, but this is my proof. If you take the book away from me, I'll have no proof that this has happened. And he said, that's the whole point.

They don't want you to know it's happened. They want you to begin all about it. And that's why I'm taking the book. You can take the book that you never... Barney's examination, session number five. Barney returns to the moment of contact. He's reluctant, but the memory's surface. He describes being led into the craft.

He's terrified. The beings are clinical, detached. He's examined. He recalls chest pressure, the use of instruments, and a sense of being probed. I was playing on the table, and it was open, and I was... I thought, are they putting a cup around my private parts?

Then it stopped. I thought, how funny, if I keep real quiet and real still, I won't be harmed, and it will be over. After getting off the table, Barney felt a great sense of relief, remembering a huge grin on his face. His eyes are still shut, but he is walking and being guided. He was back in the car and could see Betty coming down the road toward the car. I see Betty is coming down the road. She gets in to the car, grinning at her, and is back at me. We both seem so happy thinking it isn't too bad.

How funny. I have no reason to fear. And we look. I see a bright moon. Say, well, there it goes. Betty describes being escorted back to the car. The beings are polite, almost gentle. She's confused but not afraid.

She watches the craft apart, silent and swift. She feels changed but doesn't know how. They drove south to Concord, then east on U.S. Highway 4. The sun was rising. They arrived home hours later than expected, feeling clammy and disoriented. They feared radiation exposure. They showered thoroughly. Then they began to document.

Okay. I feel like I am by sleep. Lack of sleep. Yeah, although not abducted, it is 3.23 in the morning. So tired. So tired. We are currently at the Betty and Barney Hill area where they used to live now. I don't think the house is there anymore because the pictures online looks like this old sort of like.

two-story house and in its place now is this sort of one-story bungalow which is a little new their whole ordeal like I'm just tired I can only imagine if I had been yeah messed with in a spaceship yeah if you get home at 3 30 in the morning like I'm I'm pretty messed up right now and I would think also that I don't know if I wake up in a few days with like crazy nightmares I'll be like oh maybe I got abducted to I have no idea there's definitely some time slips of me slipping in and out of consciousness on the way here as a boring drive. But yeah, this marks the end of the uninterrupted journey, as it were. Nothing super eventful has occurred,

but it was fun to retrace the footsteps. Yeah. Yeah. I was even when you were past that, I was listening to the whole story again and I I could, like, place myself along the journey. It was really special in that sense, like to imagine it fully. You saw a couple of things in the sky, little... Yeah, who knows what we saw.

I don't know what they are, but they... They discovered shiny concentric circles on the car trunk. A compass needle spun wildly over the spots. Their watches had stopped and never worked again. Betty's dress was torn, stained with pink powder. Barney's shoes were scraped on the top. vegetation clung to his pants. Circular rash appeared on his groin

in the days that followed the hills struggled to make sense of the experience. You know, because this induced great trauma, especially in Barney, and he ended up developing bleeding ulcers and in the hospital with this. They couldn't be resolved with traditional medical treatment. And so he ended up being referred to Dr. Simon eventually.

That therapy worked for both Betty and Barney. because she had her own anxieties to work through regarding this as well. But it was always to remain confidential. They never wanted this to be made public. They were willing to talk to scientists, to military officers and to the family, but we were sworn to secrecy. Betty and Barney had agreed not to speak with people about their experience for fear of ridicule, but that they had each other agreed to draw what they had saw,

in private and reveal them together. When the pictures matched very closely, Betty was excited and called her sister. Barney describes the days following the encounter. He's anxious, sleepless, and physically ill. His ulcers worsen. He avoids the topic. He fears ridicule.

He fears what he saw. Dr. Simon notes the depth of Barney's trauma. It's not imagined. It's lived. What was that like for you as a young girl sort of hearing these tales. Did that, I mean, obviously that must have helped shaped how you see the phenomenon, but like seeing someone who you trusted

and looked up to and really cared about, you know, speak about things like of this nature. What was that like for you? I was curious. I was interested. And I was concerned for Betty and Barney and especially Barney because of the trauma that he was just unable to work through

until he finally received a referral. And he was so much better after that that he went back to working full-time in his spare time for civil rights. He was a civil rights activist. He was appointed to the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights as a state advisory board member. He had used funding from the Office of Economic Opportunity to set up the Rottenham County Community Action Program. He was the chairman of the

committee. He received that award. He was working on voters' rights. So he and Betty were both doing a lot of great things for the community and the people of their state, particularly the underprivileged. They were doing very, very well until there was a violation of confidentiality. And then it just threw them back. What happened to them is something that should never happen to anybody, in my opinion. I still feel angry about it. I blamed the reporter. I was furious with him, as was Betty.

For Barney, it brought people who doubted his credibility. This was a man who was upstanding in the community. His reputation mattered greatly. And all of a sudden he was thrown into a kook category. And it was, in a sense, it was devastating again. So this is something Betty and Barney took active steps to avoid. But it was beyond their control because someone spilled the beans. there was a violation of confidentiality that had a lifelong impact on them.

Like in hindsight, I mean, kind of bittersweet, right? Obviously a violation of their rights. And, you know, if they don't want it to be public, then it should never be public. That's just the way that that goes. But the fact that it did go public, you know, provided, you know, so much to people looking into this. And it provided, you know, so much information and so many answers. I guess, for a lot of other people who might have gone through a similar ordeal. And so there is, I guess, I suppose a silver lining to this.

Well, you might say that there was a silver lining to it in terms of, you know, other people who had had this same experience in terms of Betty being asked to speak with them, to offer guidance to them and support, that kind of thing. And for Barney, he had a cerebral hemorrhage when he was 46 years old. It was fatal. Yeah. Wow. Betty recounts her dreams. They mirror the hypnosis, but with embellishments. She's aware of the difference.

She doesn't trust the dreams fully, but they feel real. I did a comparative analysis of five dreams that Betty had and wrote about in detail that happened. for five nights beginning 10 days after the event occurred. And so, you know, that dream account was different than what Betty and Barney remembered under hypnosis. There was some overlap there, but the details were different. And fundamentally, I mean, there is something there. Like even Betty acknowledged that, you know, her dreams wasn't portraying reality and that there was some type of, you know, mix up there.

but the underlying event is still there. And that, I think, is the important thing to highlight here. Yes, and I think that what we need to highlight is the parts for which they had conscious memory. Not the hypnosis. Barney, although Dr. Simon took precautions to make sure they didn't lie that they were telling the whole truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, that sort of thing. And later, Betty passed a lie detector. test after Barney died. But, you know, Barney initially had a false memory. He remembered things out of sequence. And but then Dr. Simon had to go back and, you know, go through it again and

again and again. And then Barney did remember it in proper sequence. What else to say here, Kathleen? This has been just such a, I mean, an incredible journey for myself to like look into and I'm sure for many others, even just discovering this, you know, maybe some of some of the younger audience not familiar with this. Again, I suggest you check out Captured, the Betty and Barney Hill UFO experience. I'll leave the link in the description. But I want to thank you so much, Kathleen, for opening up and for setting me straight on a few of these facts that I might not get. on the first go-around, but it's really greatly appreciated, and your work is so appreciated for all of us researching this topic. You know, we need people who are hard-nosed, evidence-based and, you know, grounded in science, and that's something that I can firmly say that you are

and continue to be. So thank you so much for everything you've done. Well, it was my pleasure, and it was all out of my curiosity about what happened to my family today. try to get to the truth of it. And it has taken up most of my adult life after I left my own profession in investigation. I had read a lot. I had talked to Betty and over and over again. I'd taken those trips with her, but then with my own investigation and the many, many years I've devoted to this, I now know precisely what happened and where. Thank you, Kathleen. My pleasure.

Regression session 10, Betty. Betty reflects on the experience. She believes it happened. She doesn't know why, but she's certain. She wants to share the story. She wants others to know. She's not afraid of ridicule. She's driven by truth.

Dr. Simon ends the sessions. Thank you so much for watching and thank you to Kathleen Martin for helping us tell the story of her aunt and uncle. And also, special thank you to Sosako for providing some really cool animations that we played throughout this episode. If you enjoyed this episode, leave a like, leave a comment, subscribe. If you want to encourage us even further, head over to area 52.shop, or join the membership for just $5 a month and get access to so many incredible things. I hope you guys have a great day and we'll see you on the next video

peace and love