AREA52 - DEBRIEFED With Chris Ramsay - Transmedium UAPs, UFO National Archives and Debunking - w/ Chrissy Newton - DEBRIEFED ep. 16

Episode Date: December 6, 2024

Chrissy Newton, TV Host, Researcher, Writer & award winning Podcaster at The Debrief joins me in the SCIF to talk about her TV Show on Discovery where she gets to the bottom of a TON of new UFO Encounters. We also talk about The National UFO Archive and the UN's role during Disclosure. Patreon Exclusive Content: https://www.patreon.com/Area52investigations AREA 52 Shop: https://www.1st.shop/collections/area-52 Join The Area52 Discord: https://discord.gg/x29SrGtdNu Chrissy Newton's Website: https://chrissynewton.com/ Follow Chrissy on IG: https://www.instagram.com/beingchrissynewton/ Follow her Podcast: https://thedebrief.org/podcasts/ Follow me on IG: https://www.instagram.com/area52investigations/ Call us Toll Free: 8-333-AREA52 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/26PjFc2gsF0jE9CiMvNBVt Itunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/debriefed-with-chris-ramsay/id1724258920 Join this channel to get access to perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvQ_EDuk8w67a2UkCS1ptbA/join

So you want to become an intern at Area 52. I get it. Access to future investigations. All right, so this is my last day in search of the Yeti. Uncut interviews. What about the Vatican? Yeah, they've investigated you. Weekly video updates.

So I appreciate you guys getting in on the ground floor with me here. Sounds pretty good. But that's not why you're here, is it? You're not here for top secret access to the Discord or the book clubs or movie nights or Q&As. No. I didn't think so. I don't even think you're here for the skiff or for the early access or the extra episodes or even have your questions answered directly on the podcast. I think you're here because you know there's more, more than they've told us, and more than we're allowed.

to see. And I think you want to be a part of it. So what happens to your $5? Only one way to find out. Before we begin, I would like to try a bit of an experiment. Oh, great. Yeah. So this room was built. The inspiration for this room was more of like a skiff, but also a place where they used to like test people with ability. You know like in the Stargate program, uh, they used to, uh, they used to to have these tests like Uri Geller, they would fly him in, and all sorts of other natural psychics, and go swan,

and they would test some type of supernatural ability or sci ability. I was wondering... You do a magic element on me here? Yes, but it's going to be disguised as science. So I have a dice here. Okay, here we go. This is...

I was wondering if you're going to do something. And I'm going to ask you to roll the dice on the table, but hide the result. from me. Okay. And don't give me any type of signal. Okay, so go ahead, roll it as many times you want. Drop it on the table.

As many times I want and pick a number. Just leave it on the table when you've committed and stare at that number. What was the number? It was six. Was it? Yeah. I got four. Puck.

Okay, do this again. Hold on. This is me. This is good. This is an actual, we're doing actual psychic stuff. Okay, so take the dice. But my original number I wanted to keep was fine. Okay. But then I didn't. Okay.

So roll the dice, leave it on the table. Yeah, I did, yeah. Okay. And I'll show you there. Okay. Keep it there. Yeah. Think about this number. Yeah. And think about like transmitting it to me somehow. Okay. This time, what was the number? It was four. I got four. Okay. Wait, let's try us one more time.

So it's 50-50. But I was like, did, do we were predicting? Did I pick up, did I pick up on what you were going to roll? Yeah, were you predicting? Yeah, were you predicting? Ah, retro causality. Let's try this. Let's try this again. I want to make sure that this is, that we can replicate this. So take the dice, roll it, drop it on the table, hide it from me,

look at the number, and try to send me this number. What number was it? Get out of my mind. What was it? What was it? Is it one? The eye, but that's funny because I was thinking of an eye. Where are you?

It's supposed to be like a snake eye when you get two ones. That's right. Get out of my mind, Chris. We got the number one. All right, one last time, and then we'll move on from this. Can I do it with you and see if that works out? We can try that after you like, yeah, sure. I'm not a magician or anything like that, but I like to try.

It's got to go both ways, doesn't it? I mean, it should, yeah. You got to tell me how you're doing this. Very well, I thought. All right, go ahead. Okay. I'm getting a one again. Fuck off.

Really? How are you doing this? How are you doing this? Yeah, you can try it if you want. I'll see if you can pick it up. I'm not, this is not. Let's see. I'm really sending it to you.

I know. I believe you. You picking it up? What do you have? Five. Fucking right. Yo, dude. You did.

It doesn't get better than that. That's amazing. There it is. And these are... Get out of my head. That's what I'm saying. This is crazy. And that is a demonstration of psychic ability.

Thank you for partaking. It was fun. It was fun. It was so much fun. You did very well on that test. You passed the test. Thank you. You did too.

That's crazy. You will now be recruited into the next top secret program here at Area 52. Yeah. Oh, I thought you were actually going to play music and stuff. Like, do, do, do, do. Oh. No, wrong one. This one.

There we go. That's better. It's waiting for something to come out. Just this one's the best. All right, enough Tomfoolery. Welcome to the same. Skiff. Thank you. Yeah. It's exciting. My inaugural guest. Yes, that's even more exciting. I feel very honored. Thanks for joining me, Chrissy. I appreciate it. Thank you for having me.

A bit of an intro for those of you watching at home. Chrissy Newton, Canadian UFO reporter, writer, journalist, podcaster, TV host. I mean, you've done quite, you've done quite well for yourself in this community so far. the co-host of Alien Encounters Factor Fiction on Discovery, which is a really fun premise for a show, and we'll get into that. Rebelliously Curious is the podcast under the debrief podcast network. A very good podcast you guys to check out. And then, I mean, there's just so many TV appearances

and people you've interviewed over the years that we'll talk about that I'm really interested in hearing about. But welcome. Thank you for doing this. I appreciate you. Thank you. Thank you for the intro. Yeah, absolutely. So, Chrissy, tell us, tell us a bit about what you do within the UFO community to get us started. Oh, gosh. I first started in the UFO community as like obviously a seeker,

like everybody else, right? Since I was a little girl, I love UFOs because of my dad. So started off as a seeker, became an explorer. and when I was 25, started to go and went on like crop circle chasing circles kind of trips in London, England because I wanted to get to the close, what I thought may be the closest to something that was tangible. And learn a lot from Gary King that's out there. That's like, and it's okay. You shut this guy off here. That's like a number one circle chaser that deals with crop circles. And who knows if they're real or not in that context?

And I learned a lot in that experience. If anything, I've learned that they're just beautiful pieces of artwork. True. Yeah, that like everyone should go and see because they're like, they're stunning. So it started off then, like, as a seeker and explorer and then started in the PR side of things. And so people would come to me when I was in my 20s and say like, can you do anything in public relations? Like I was 25 when I started my company and knowing that I liked UFOs and they were like, can you contribute in some way? A man named Victor Vigiani, that's Canadian, came up to me and was just like, we need someone,

in the PR space to help, but push this forward. And I would say, well, I can't. I can't because I'll get blacklisted. And this is before 2017. Wow, because the stigma. Yeah, the stigma was so bad. And I said, I can't. I said, I won't have any clients.

Nobody's going to work with me. I said, a media will laugh at me. So I said, I can't, you know, but I can give you strategy. I can help with that. So I remember in 2017, I was in Mexico with a friend. And I get this text message from Victor Vigiani. And it just says, like, we did it. like not meaning him and us,

just like, just UFOs in general. Yeah. And the topic and he's like, we broke, they broke through to the mainstream. He's like, it worked. And I'm like, oh my God. So I'm like in Mexico reading this stuff. And I'm like, this is unbelievable.

So right there I was like, I can help now. Like the narrative is shifted. So I really feel like there was, yeah, not only a shift within you, but within the subject itself. Well, not even,

there was a shift in me, but I think it was just like, it was one of those, aha moments, right? It was more a shift in the culture that I could say, like, now it's the time I can step in. Like, this has now become more acceptable in the mainstream, and we're getting through, you know, we're breaking through that ceiling. So I was like, okay, I'm going to start helping in ways that I can. I did work with Jacques Valet, which I feel really grateful for. I did some work with him while I was working with the debrief as well, but with Trinity,

I helped him get that into The New York Times and The Daily Mail and Tucker picked it up. So, and it'll be, like, and it pushed legislation a little bit, right? And so, like, that was really cool. Wow. And also, like, working with the godfather of, like, the UFO historian and, like, topic and astronomer. Oh, yeah. You're like, you know, and when he, when I got the phone call the first time, he was like, hey, this is Chris. And I'm like, oh, my God. I was in California and I was on the phone. And I'm like, like, oh, my God. Like, this is, this is so cool. But that's so interesting to me because this space isn't normally, um, you know, that's attractive to people who are, you know, working in a mainstream media setting.

And so, you know, this definitely stems from, you know, further back, right? You're, you were definitely attracted to this subject prior to working in it. Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh, yeah. Like, it's been around, like, my whole life. Yeah. Like, since I was about six years old. Wow.

You know, I've always thought that UFOs were real. So I've never had, like, a paradigm shift where I've been like, this, this isn't real. It's always been real to me, right? It was real to my dad. My dad had an experience and it was real for him. And so, and the group of people that were with him. So he showed me, I think I've mentioned this to you. And other people know if they've watched my work.

My dad showed me a photo when I was a little girl that he took of a UAP and, like, changed my experience. And I was forever like for him wondering what it is and watching him. But then also like looking at that and being like, what is this? And like trying to understand it and just dissected and being like so young. And my dad would say like, you just, you won't get. get it until you're older Chrissy. Yeah.

And so forever, you know, my relationship with, you know, my mom doesn't really care about UFOs too much, but my dad and I did. So it's something we connected over. It was something that I think we both is like, if you want to get astrological, we're both aquariums. So, you know, that's what we're supposed to do. Sure. So it wasn't a far stretch for us.

And yeah, and it's just something like a father and daughter. And then my dad, synchronicity, which is really great, he bought a, a place with my mom in Arizona. And I looked up and I was like, I wonder where the biggest UFO conference is. And I was 25 and I said to my dad, and we're all at the dinner table and I was like, do you want to go to UFO conference?

He's like, yeah. I'm going to go look it up. So I like, go to look it up. And I'm like, come in and I'm like, dad. And my parents are at the table. They're like, they're like what? And I'm like, where in Arizona is like the house? Like, because we had it in Phoenix, I said, where is this compared to like where the

Alejandro shout out, the national UFO Congress, international UFO Congress. And he's like, that's at half an hour from the house. He's like, book the tickets now. So I was like, right? So like booking tickets. And I'm like, yeah, and dad's like, we're going. Oh, goes, no, I go, dad, when is it? And he's like, he's like, when is it? And I go, it's in February. He's like, that's when we go. Oh, that's so sick. So we show up and my dad looks at me. And he's like, these are our people, Chrissy. I just laughed. So awesome. Yeah. And watching him be a seeker has been so amazing in my life to see him, like, like talk to people, you know, connect and like just fall really in love with the subject more.

Yeah. And now it's been interesting because I get to experience it. And he's not always with me, unfortunately, because my mom is not the best right now. So he is obviously taking care of her and like such an amazing partner and such an amazing man. I'm very lucky to have that. So I'm out there for both of us. And then I'll, you know. And he follows a lot of what you do, I guess.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He listens to the podcast. Yeah. Listen to this. What's his name? Tony. Shout out Tony. Yeah, Dad. So yeah, you know, it's been, I'm very fortunate and very lucky to have such a great dad.

But yeah, it's been a wild trip. And now, like, coming home and, like, visiting him and telling him, like, all the stuff that's going on. We watched, like, the first episode of Alien Encounters Factor Fiction. I just, I took a picture and we're all sitting back at my sisters. And I'm like, wow. Wow, indeed. Like, how did this, how did this? So how did this happen?

Like, why am I here? Like, out of, you know, and my dad, like, why are we experiencing this together? Like, there's always reasons for everybody doing some type of topic. But I just feel very grateful. And I just love it. And I'm very happy if it keeps going on the rest of my life or even if it's stopped at one moment. I'm just like, I just love doing it. Yeah, something.

I don't have to be in the front. I can always be behind you. Sure. But something tells me that you, you were meant to be in the front of it. And, you know, you've got a long career ahead of you still. Like, I mean, you're, you're doing amazing. things right now. You're talking to, you know, some of the, talking to the foremost experts in the field, you know, gathering information from them, but not only that, you're a point of reference for a lot

of people in this field as well. You had recent appearances on News Nation, where you talked about the hearings, you know, and they wanted your take on that. So, like, I mean, you do provide, like, a valuable input and insight into this, into this topic. So, you know, that's, that's a great place. to be and especially, you know, as a fellow Canadian, very proud. Oh, yeah, represent Canada, that's for sure. Heck yeah. It's so cool. And also, I like the fact that we live in Canada.

There's not so many of us here that are in the forefront. So it's like a little safe space, I think, yeah. And, I mean, maybe this is a great segue, but there are numerous UFO sightings in Canada. Oh, yeah, for sure, yeah. Some of the most famous encounters, actually, one of the most famous encounters was Falcon Lake. Yep. You've researched this, I suspect, right? So, 1967 in Manitoba.

So Stephen Michelach was a man that was just like hiking during the day and he ends up in the mountains. And he hears first, I believe from what I remember, he sees this object in the distance. But before I think he saw, he ends up hearing some type of like Swedish or European. in. And a friend told me this too. Actually, Micah Hank, shout out from the debrief. We've talked about this case at Fairmont. But he heard some kind of like Swedish. I didn't know this like point, this data point until Mike had told me. Whoa. Yeah, right? I didn't know about that either. Exactly. I was like, oh, but again, Micahanks is like a historian of UFOs. He's like the same age as us and he's an encyclopedia. It's pretty unbelievable. So when I have to fact check sometimes,

I just call Mike. Nice. And he's like, Chrissy, I don't know everything. And I'm like, oh, I don't think you do. It's like, you've got it tucked back there. I just, Need to spark it sometimes. But yeah, so he hears this, like, kind of Swedish or European dialect. So he thinks that they're, like, Americans. And so he goes, and then, like, it's kind of like the typical, like, like, close the door. Yeah.

But he sees, like, these occupants. And so he thinks that it's, like, some kind of, like, American testing craft. So he goes up to the craft, and I believe then he touches the craft, but then it, like, instantly accelerates. And so it kind of gives off. some type of radiation on him, and then he has radiation burns with on his white shirt, and then also on the glove that he was wearing, that he has as well. And I'm not sure why he was wearing the glove.

Maybe he was smart and put the glove on before he touched it. He was out there fishing or something. Something like that, yeah. And I don't know when he ended up seeing, but I believe it was at some point when he was like hiking. I don't think it wasn't by the water. I believe it was in the mountains. We weren't adjacent to it.

And anyway, and so I think APRO then gets these files. And so APRO has them, the National UFO Historical Records Center, David Marler, has them. And so I was recently there, and I saw it in glass. And I'm like, holy shit. Wow. Yeah, I'm like, this is unbelievable. Like, you have a piece, you have his glove.

You have his shard shirt. The shirt? Yeah, he has a piece of the shirt. And then, like, the media files and whatever, like the records of the account. And it's, yeah, I'm like, and he said, and then he's a piece of the soil. dirt sample too. Wow. Right, which is really important because it's obviously touchdown in that area. So who knows what that might still have remnants in if it ever does now. I mean, if it had radiation, it still does for sure. Yeah, exactly, because it sticks around for a long time. And so it's so wild

that he has this. And then he opened up the dirt sample when I was there too. And David Marler said to me when I was there, he was like, Chrissy, I opened up the file and was like, like, this is like, so fresh. Yeah. Especially within a kid. Canadian case like that for us. It's history. That's a big part of our history. It's a huge part of history. Yeah. And so that was like one of those moments to see that. I was like, this is cool as a Canadian. Wow. That was recently you did this. This was in New Mexico? Yep, in New Mexico and Albuquerque. Yeah. Well, Rio Rancho, exactly. What was that experience like? Because that, I just saw from your stories and your posts, but, you know, it seems like

the mecca of UFO information now. Like that's, and can anyone just go there and request to look at something? Like, how does that work? Yeah, I think it opens mainly in January. Like, they're kind of doing their last minute security stuff. So don't try to break in because that things like a fortress, just so people know. But you can put in a request. And then I believe David Marler takes like historians, people that are just curious to. And then they can go in and look at files. But I don't know how, what if they have to use gloves or anything like that. I don't know what the protocol is. He hasn't told me that. And I think they're probably still figuring out what the best way is because there's everything. Like there's so many,

There's hundreds and hundreds of thousands of files. Wow. Yeah. And so I got a little emotional when I walked in because I was like, like, who said it to me? Someone from UFO Twitter, Amy said to me, she was like, she does good morning UFOs. And she was there and she lives in Albuquerque.

And she said to me, she's like, Chrissy. She's like, the truth's not out there. It's in there. And I looked at her and I was like, holy shit, Amy. That's true. It is. Perfect slogan. I used it in my article at the end because I was like,

This is so true. I was like, can I ask her, can I quote you in this? Because it's such a great quote. And it's true. I said there's so much history. And like David knows where a lot of it is too, but he hasn't listened to everything. So there's all these like golden little nuggets that people that are just civilians can go in and find. Right.

There's a recording of J. Alan Heineck interviewing or talking about Travis Walton's experience. Yeah. And just like his perspective on it. And I pulled it out and I was like, I got to listen to this. I know. I was like, there's so much, like, you know, as someone who loves telling stories and content, I was like, this is forever.

Like, you could tell these stories for the rest of humanity. Yeah. So, you know, if any, like, producers watching, they're probably all going to run to the archives now. Yeah, maybe. Because they're. Yeah, maybe don't do that, producers. Leave it up to us. Leave it.

Yes, yeah, please. Let us, please, let us tell stories. But it's. Yeah, don't butcher these stories, please. No, exactly. Like, keep them intact. So there's so much of that. there's just so many files. There's also like an intake section. So there's so many different.

Or where you can just go and like listen to the documents or like read them. The intakes for them to like take in new dot new stuff. Oh, okay, that you submit. Yeah. Is is a lot of this stuff from like Mufon, I'm guessing? Because you know, yeah, they had a lot of, I mean, they've been just like this investigative body in the UFO space. I think much and I don't, I don't want, maybe I'll go out of a limb here, but it seems to me that they were much more of an investigative body. investigative entity before, or is that like still going on with Mufon? But I feel like it was, maybe it's just because, you know, when everything was fresh in the, you know, in the early days of UFO, like we hear about them a lot more. But what's, uh, what's your take on them now?

Well, I think Mufon's still doing it. Yeah, they're still doing their thing. It has multiple chapters. I talked to the New Mexico, uh, Mufon, uh, director. I chat with him on, on, on Instagram. Uh, because he has got, obviously, has an interesting job out there. and so I think Mufon's still doing its chapters are people that are still taking in and they're doing a great job. Mufant had a little bit of controversy, obviously, throughout the years with certain directors

and certain inappropriate activities. So I think that kind of taint in things. We look at, my gosh, I'm forgetting NIDS. We're looking at some of the stuff that happened with Nids and Bigelow and the context of like giving those information and Mufant was attached to it, I believe, to the American guys. government. So I think there was a couple moments where we were like, our trust maybe has been lost.

Yeah. But they're still very much active. Active investigating. Yes, yes, yes. Okay. Yeah, but I also think that all the chapters, like those are just directors, right? Those are just sometimes bad actors in an organization. You're going to get them. But everyone that I've spoken to when it comes to running their own chapter has been really wonderful at different states. So I still really appreciate move on and what the stuff they're doing. Well, I mean, they've got- And the individuals doing it because you have to really like sightings to be able to do that and go and report and talk to people and just have a conversation and do all of that investigation work. Like you have to be a little spy. You got to like it. Yeah, you have a little spy. That's right. Yeah, they're a, you know, it's an interesting thing

because they probably have, you know, the most amount of documentation on, like, on UFO, on, on not even, I mean, close contact even. Like, that's, I can't even imagine all of the data that entities like Mufon, now, you know, there's the New Paradigm Institute as well, and we have all these other conglomerates of like this UFO information, but how much information is out there, including in this, in this archive, is staggering. Oh, yeah. Like, it's, it's not, it's not hundreds. It's not, it's tens of thousands of cases. Or millions. Or millions, perhaps. Yeah. Of like little pieces of paper. Yeah. And those are only the people willing to speak about it, right? And that's, you know, I think that's just for me, one of the most impressed.

of things, because I'm reading books now. I'm reading one written by the Lorenzans, which is like this old book in the 60s. That was about, you know, close encounters. And I'm reading passport to Magonia as well for the first time, which is, you know, an incredible encyclopedia of sightings and interactions. And the amount, the sheer amount of these interactions is staggering. It's, like, I'm reading things. I'm like, what? This is, this is nuts that this happened. Like, if true, this person has no reason to lie. And they're telling me about like these beings I've never heard of before in this close encounter. So yeah, did you get a sense when going to that archive that like you're going to uncover some, you know, something that nobody knows about? Oh, for sure.

That's, I think every time you open up a filing cabinet, you're probably going to find something that somebody doesn't know. Wow. Because there's so many media clippings. There's so many stories, right? And I think the point that we forget, at least in the journalism side, we have the New York Times, obviously, in Politico and the Washington Post and all these amazing, wonderful, legit outlets that can disseminate information. And, you know, in 1947, you have Life Magazine, who was the prominent of, like, telling UFO stories and syndicated them. But we forget about the little local journalist. And that's who that storyteller is and is the most important, because if they don't cover it in their local paper, A, that's what helps get things syndicated. And it still does. So now I think it's independent journalism online.

But that's who's important. That's what helps syndicate so many UFO stories in the 1940s was independent local journalism. Yeah, and their little community paper being like, what is this? And curious and writing a story about it because they thought something was there. So that, like, and there's so many of those clippings.

And like we forget the importance of media. You know, today we live in such a, right, a polarized world with media. But back then it wasn't as polarized. like, let's, you know, we could debate who was controlling it or not. Sure. But let's just say, you know, you did have a lot of local independent journalists that were just trying to cover real beats, real stories.

And, you know, we still have those people out there. I'd say at the debrief, we are those people, you know, because we're not owned by any larger company. So we don't have an agenda. We just try to find the truth and tell the truth, right, and do our best. And if we screw up, we'll tell people, too. Like, it's just the way, you know, we just try to report, straight reporting. And so I think we forget that those people are so important.

And we still have those people. And they're the first account, and we need to document all of the first accounts all the time. Do you guys receive any, like, I mean, because I mean, you're working with some people who know a lot about this subject, arguably, like, you know, or the most prominent in this field about, you know, information. Do you ever, do people ever come to you? Do people ever come to you with, like, an exclusive? For sure. Yeah. Yeah. How do you treat that? Is there like a process that you have to vet them? Is there. Yeah. Well, if it's a big story, it's a huge, huge story, and it's going to go. international. You know, we all have a degree of understanding what's going on. We have a lot of people

that in our team that can bet really, really well, just as well as the Washington Post. You know, I feel very proud to say that. Like, you know, Ralph Lumenthal and Lizzie King came to us for that story because they know that we could do our diligence. And we do. We do it well for a small group. We're pretty mighty. Like, we're feisty. And so, and we all stick together. Trust me, we've had our own Bickermint inside like a family does. But it's been five years. I think this is like next week it's been, we'll go, yeah. Yeah, thank you. So like it's, you know, we are a little family in that way and we work together and we try

to do our best and we're situated all over the world too. We're not just all in one area. So yeah, they do. And then there's same thing people just come to you sometimes with a general news story. Hopefully in the next week or two I'll come out with a great story about an interagency meeting that I was given Sam some, some information about. So I'll write that and I have the meeting notes and it's just a good story. like nobody else will have it.

I'll get to report it, which is really cool. Exclusive. It's an exclusive, but it's not breaking news. It's just an exclusive too, but it makes sense because we are part of that demo. And it's based on edge science. That's also part of our demo covering. It's not just UFOs. Edge science is attached to it.

So the more that we dive into the UAP, we also dive into edge science. And there's so many other people within interagency that's coming that way. and connecting to the UFO topic because they, and taking it seriously as interagency meetings because they know what's important. And that's exciting. Like that's very, very, very exciting. And I love to see it. And I don't want to just report on UFOs.

I'm actually going to, UFOs are just a little drop in my reporting. It's going to be who are all these other amazing people here doing stuff in edge science? And then UFOs are at the table. Yeah. And that's cool. Yeah, because a lot of that edge science stuff, you know, tends to correlate. and there's a connection, a clear connection with the UAP phenomenon when we speak of, you know, whether it's manipulating gravity, whether it's consciousness, whether it's, you know, all these other sort of, you know,

paranormal activities, but they seem to pop up a lot in the UFO realm. So, you know, if you're going to look into one, you have to look into the other. Yeah, they're hand in hand, right? And as UFOs grow, we're going to learn more, that subject grows and we learn more about it. We're going to learn more about all those other. areas. And then how does it work within government? How does government become open to having these conversations? Because as much as science can do everything that they're doing, you know, and all these wonderful academic institutions, policy needs to change. And that really is the decision maker in many ways. But science and tech and edge science can influence policy. It just takes a long time to get there because it does become politicized. Like I will say this now,

and I've said this to Kevin Wright, who works for the Paradigm Institute, in a couple of other people. He's a PR friend and he's just a great human and you know, he really understands he used to work from the Republican side before he kind of got into the UFO topic and consulting from a PR perspective. And we were at Seoul, you know, we had this conversation and I said to him, you know, watching the hearing is so great. I was like, this is the best TV I've watched all year and it came from a government channel. I was like, how is this possible? You know, I think I was getting my hair. ever done while I was watching with my stylist and she's just like what the hell are you watching? I was like, Tasha, you got to hear this. This is unbelievable. And she likes it too. She's like,

this is wild. I know, I'm like, this is the world we live in. Yeah. Yeah, watching it on mute looks the same as everything else. But turning that volume up, you're like, wait a second, what are they talking about? Yeah. And I was like, and I said to her, I'm like, took it and I'm like, they asked about hybrids. And she's like, that blew my mind. I know. I know. I was like. My biggest takeaway. What? What? I was like, and like, no, no, no. You know, I'm like, well, you know, that also I sat back and was like, thank God. Yeah, are we going to open this can of worms?

Oh, man, I don't know if we're ready for that yet. But we didn't know if we were ready for NHI either last year. You know, that came out of the blue. I think a lot of people were willing to discuss perhaps gravitational propulsion or, you know, perhaps just these craft behaving in a bizarre manner that are undetected on radar. or turning invisible, maybe. Yeah. But we got NHA, we got, you know, transdimensional beings.

We got biologics recovered at crashes. Like, I mean, a lot came out last year. Yeah. And, you know, although, you know, maybe we'll talk about that a little bit, but what were your major takeaways from, you know, this year's hearing? Because, like, once the cat's out of the bag last year, where do you go from there, right? Other than direct hands-on whistleblower? Yeah.

Do you think that this year's hearing was more of a step laterally or a step back? Or like, what were your biggest takeaways from the hearing this year? That's a great question. I would say lateral, but progressive, many ways. We might have went into some maybe directions that I don't think are, you know, and this happens, right? We have to prove it and we need evidence. One day we'll get proof, but we need some form of evidence.

And specific data to answer specific hypothesis. that we have because that's more important, right? That's what data does. It helps point to a specific, if we're talking about a hypothesis, right? Because that's what you need data for to then point to the evidence as well. But I do think that we have, I think it's progressive. We're doing it. It's great.

But what I didn't like to see, and this is the conversation I was having with Kevin, or what we didn't see, was that everybody at the table was Republican. And there's nothing wrong with that. Even on the congressional side. Yes. And there was no Democrats. It wasn't bipartisan. No.

And this is where I went, this is where I went, okay, this sucks. I was like, this is getting really political now. And it's quietly political. When you don't have people show up the other side of the table to have the conversation, they've literally gone, this is a Republican topic. Wow. And that's where I went, man, this sucks. And it doesn't mean that either side, if it's, first of all, I'm Canadian.

So I don't have a say. I tell my American friends, I have my opinions, but what I think does not matter, I don't live in the country. Sure. Right? And so that's just the truth. And so, and I'm, you know. Yeah, no, you're right.

Right. When we watch, well, I can't speak for you, but I can speak for myself when I watch, you know, these hearings and often I'll make a video on it. And it's different with me because, you know, being a YouTuber and a content creator, I don't have to, like, I can make mistakes. You know what I mean? People aren't expecting me to, like, be, you know, this, you know, this truth saying all-knowing, like, entity. But, like, when you're, you know, working at. Joe Rogan status. Yeah.

You're going to be the news, Chris. Don't say that. But I'm still fallible. But what I meant to say is like, you know, watching this, I'm making a video and I'm like, God, I love that question by Bobert or I love that question by, you know, Representative Luna or Nancy Mace. And I'll just get comments to be like, that person's evil. And I'm like, well, because they asked about hybrids. And they're like, no, because they, you know, pass this bill.

I'm like, I don't know any of that. I didn't even know necessarily that these were Republicans. I'm looking at this from a complete neutral, neutral, you know, territory. That's fair. I'm like, let's talk about aliens and UFOs. This is why I'm here. Yeah. I don't, you know, I don't, I'm not here to vote on, you know, which bathroom people

are allowed to go into. I just want to hear about the aliens. That's all I care about. Like, and I dip after that, you know. Well, I think it just, I think it's important because that is a, a big part of where this topic is going to go, right? So it is a. it kind of signals how things might shift, right, that this has become one-sided,

and so the other side doesn't want to talk about it. And Chuck Schumer, for example, has obviously been very... Right, polarizing and contentious, yeah. Right, but also he, you know, was asking specific things and trying to push things into legislation too and coming from a democratic side. And so I think it's important that we know it, but you're right, it's like, I don't know everybody. I did the same thing. I think I put, um, someone, someone was on the panel and I put, wow, that was a great question. And then Tim and I came in later, McMillan for my team. And he was like, holy shit, Chrissy, I did not expect you to say that coming from him. And then sends me, you know, as a female, I'm like, obviously for female rights, uh, who isn't when you're a woman.

And he sent me something. And he was just like, I can't believe. Yeah. I never thought, that was not on my bingo card to come out of your mouth. And I said, I did not know. I said, but I said, what's funny when I, when I wrote it, I was like, I'm probably, Kim's probably going to say something. I was like, there's somebody going to say something like, who is this guy. But also that is the beauty of it, like you said.

Yeah, because that's my ignorance. It's neutral territory. Well, right, and you can't know everything. Like, none of us can. It's impossible. So you just have to be like, oh, I didn't know that. But my choice on what people do politically is not always important to me. You know, for example, I obviously don't want someone to take away my rights,

but I, when people have different opinions than I do that are, like, Republicans or democratics. I just leave it out of the way and I don't talk about it with them because we talk about UFOs and the issue. There's lots of people that I don't agree with their political stance, but I still talk with them all the time because I think it's so important. It doesn't really matter in this context. I don't think all the time. It just matters that we're connecting, we're sharing information, we're trying to find a sort of truth and understanding and there's a community behind that and that's great and this is what we're doing and we're exchanging something in real time. And that's so important. And to me, I don't always have to agree with you.

You don't have to agree with me, but we can agree to not agree and have a great relationship still and new friends and like and search for this topic and come to answers. And that's common ground. Yeah. And I think we do a good job. I think people that try to research this topic, even though people fight, it's going to happen. You know, there's drama in the UFO community all the time. I think people do a good job at least trying to mitigate that. Yep.

I think so. I agree. I agree. Now, he's not UFO Twitter, but... Sure, yeah. Don't go there if you're looking for a good time. I do want to talk about this TV show that you did, because I think as a premise for a TV show,

I just thought so brilliant. Alien encounters, fact or fiction, you would basically speak to experiencers. They would present you with data, present you with evidence, and you and another team member, your co-host, you would look at the... look at the evidence, listen to their testimony, and then pretty much kind of decide whether or not you think that this actually took place or that it was something of, you know, an anomalous nature.

Can you talk to us a little bit about this show? Because I think it's a really fascinating topic. Thank you. It's the first time this has kind of ever been done, at least with discovery, from this perspective, doing interviews like we're chatting one-on-one. But myself and Mitch Horowitz, I come from it as a journalistic perspective. He comes from it from the esoteric perspective. And we then listen to people that have their first to fourth or fifth account, if you want to put there in close encounter. And they give us either like some form of data when it comes to a photo, a video, or a testimony, or both. Or like mass sightings, media clips, stuff like that. And so I have a team of experts that I work with that have done tons of research in the back end.

we look and break it down, right? We try to find those data points and we know, like, for example, if it's the ISX or, my God, the ISS or it's Starlink, we can find out where they were, you know, were and like where Starlink was, all that kind of stuff, right? There's so much satellite data. Yeah. So we look at that. We look at the five observables.

I do talk about it, but they didn't cut it into the show and I wish they did because it's so important. Do you think it's a little too inside baseball for them? It is. And also not every case could have five observables, right? an abduction doesn't have five observables if a UFO wasn't present. So it doesn't always, in that case, when you're listening, you're listening to testimony at this point if you don't have anything else.

And so my job is with the team is to break down the analysis with them. And then I unfortunately become like the Simon Cowell of UFOs. I've got to break the news. I'm like, God, it's not who I am in real life. God. It's a tough job to tell somebody. Yeah, really just give it to Chris. You should break it so easy.

It's like, put me in the position. And I agreed to it, though, so God. But Mitch then we'll talk about it from an occult perspective and what he thinks from that cultural lens. Right. So, you know, we are, there's so many cases, though, that had really great data. And there was one off Catalina Island. And again, I want to write about this because I love the story. And I wish they did more with it because it's so good.

And it had, it's a transmedium UFO. Can you talk to us about this? Yeah, for sure. it was a UFO that was off Catalan Island, which I said. And so he has a photo, a video of it where it's a triangle and you can see it. Yeah. And he's on a boat. So he's himself and then his partner is on the island.

And so they see this UFO. So they cross triangulated. And then the Coast Guard sees it as well. So you're getting three different points of view, which we all want to need. Whoa. Right? So then at three different areas saying, what the hell is over top of your boat? And so he watched it, I believe.

come from out of the water and then it was above him, but when he got it on video, it was above him. Yeah. Is this daytime or nighttime? Nighttime. Wow. Yeah. And so when he's telling this, first of all, when I read the data before I go on, I'm like, cool.

Yeah. Like this is, you know, and then I look at like the rundown of like, okay, let's look at the back end, right? Let's see if they were doing any type of explosions. Were they doing any type of flare activity? Because it's obviously the Coast Guards are there, right? And there's tons of military activity. Exercises or.

Right, off Catalina Island. So we look, the only thing that day in those couple of days were low barge explosions. And so everything was like in the ground or on the water. They weren't above. And so we knew that it couldn't be that. It doesn't look like flares. So you get these three points. You find it where all the activity is.

It's all in the water. It's low. And you go, okay. And you're obviously like a really good. He's a really great. He's really great at telling his own story because he understands what he's seeing. He understands the water. He's a sea.

He knows. He's there all the time. Along with his partner, they live on the water. So he's a great witness. So it's, yeah, completely anomalous. Like he, it's the same as if a pilot tells you that's not a balloon. You know, you got to believe the pilot because he's the one who sees things in a plane, you know. And he also like lives there on the water. So he knows the difference between military activity than he would knowing something's, you know, representifiable. A transmedium event. like that. I mean, that just, I don't even think you need to be any type of expert to realize that nothing does that. Nothing, you know, other than, you know, maybe seaplanes, but, or, you know, those funky cars they had in the 50s that, like, came out of the water and, like, these transmedium crafts, but nothing, nothing of this nature. Wow. Do you have a, do you have a video of that? He does. Yeah, it's on the show. Yeah, you can see it. Okay. I might have to clip that in to. Yeah. I think I still might have it in my file, too. I got a look. Amazing. Were there any, other

sort of encounters like this that really surprised you that like took, because like I'd imagine, I've worked, you know, with producers before and a TV network.

And I understand a lot of the frustrations that come with that because, you know, a lot of times people want to do what they think is best for the show, but it might not necessarily be best for the topic or,

or, you know, the niche, especially when you're so close to it and attached to it. Yeah. Having other people who aren't very,

familiar with the topic, you know, call the shots sometimes isn't, you know, it can be a little bit of a, can be a little bit of a battle. But were there at any points, like things that were brought to you that you were just like, this is unheard of. This is like really good stuff. Like they did a good job bringing stuff in. Yeah. It's a first series, right? It's a first show. So, you know, you're having a whole bunch of producers that are scouring the fields for UFO encounters or any type of phenomena, right? Like they're looking for all different stories, but mainly UAP or they think is extraterrestrial too, right? And so, yeah, there was a lot of great stories. I think we interviewed about 30 people 30 accounts in two weeks, which is a lot per day. So you're doing back to back, which is a lot of fun.

Are these all in the area? Are these people from everywhere? They're from everywhere, across North America. Yeah. So they're flying them in and we're all, you know, meeting in Roswell. So that's kind of cool. Yeah. And about seven of them I've like kind of knew of or like no knew who they were online and stuff. So it was great being like, hey, like, you know, Doug. Yeah. What's up? Like real life. Let's talk. And so that was really great. And there was. And then there were some accounts where you're like analyzing through. And with the team, you're like, no, you don't want to say yes. Like and I, you know, people might be like, I'm not, I'm trying to debunk. I'm not a skeptic. And I truly believe, and I will stand firm on this. I'm like, I want to be able to debunk them. We want to, because it makes that 1% even more exciting. Because then we get better data.

We're like, okay, let's get rid of the stuff that we know. And like, yeah, it doesn't mean their experience isn't real. It had some form of experience, but I can explain your experience. But then also, I've got this, like, great little data set that's even smaller now that I can narrow in and really find out more info. And so that's the best part about debunkers. And what's why they're so important in this space rather than us just kind of cut them up and we're like, you don't believe.

It's like, no, we got to work together because they're actually really important. We need those people. We need them to be overly skeptical. Maybe then sometimes we're not doing it ourselves because who knows, that's what they want to do. Let them do it. It's just how they come out and attack each other.

Not so cool. But there was something interesting, a producer said to me or an executive at Discovery and it was in the car and she's like, Chrissy, she's like, it's not like we're telling them they saw a spaceship. And I said to her, I want to tell them they saw a spaceship. I said because I go, you know, it's different.

And for them, executives don't always understand this, that there's something that goes on internally and you know this and everyone else does. This is such a human subject. So you just saying to them, it's scarier to say it's unidentified. So I'd rather tell them they saw a spaceship so I can tell them what they saw.

Yeah. Because it makes, there is some kind of conclusion that. Instead of me saying to them, I don't know what it is, that can be petrifying, exciting. You can walk out there and it can change your entire life and it can be good or bad and how the person actually decides to process that information. Right. And depending where they are religiously maybe or like, yeah. Experiences trauma that goes gone with it.

That also can create more PTSD. They can live in that PTSD more because they're asking more questions now rather than feeling they have an answer. So you kind of have to, it was like, oh, God, it's like, and it's like, please, I want to hold you. Like, let's just have a, like a talk like about this. You don't leave here. Maybe feeling not unsatisfied, but just it's created more issues for you.

Or you just more wonder. There's no resolve. No resolve. Right. And so. Do you think they came into this thinking there was going to be resolved a lot of these people? Well, you don't know what you're getting in when somebody walks in, how they're going to feel if they're excited or not.

So some people would be like, I want it to be true. because what they believe in. I see. And the form of grief that they're going through too, because it could be attached to a death. And so that's something where you're like, I'm telling you that this was something that I can approve now, but they really want it to be something else

because they thought they were talking to a loved one that was past. And so, right? And so for there, you're living in so much grief. And that's the part where that broke my heart because I'm like, I don't want to hurt you. I want to give you hopefully a place where you can start

to resolve that grief to some degree. But again, I'm not a therapist. A lot of responsibility. But I'm not a therapist. And unfortunately, they make me a little more clinical on the show than I am in real life. Sure, yeah. So. They need you to fill that role of like the data analyst.

Right. As opposed to, because there are also just be two people who really care versus like, you know, playing. But what's wrong with that? We need Simon Cowell. Yeah, exactly. And they're like, just get Chrissy to do it. But so, you know, you see that side and you're like, man, like, because it's such a real topic. And like the real people and like that and you watch them live through their grief.

Yeah. And that is so hard to watch. And that's so hard to talk to someone with. So, you know, it should be taking a class in counseling just on the side now doing this. Yeah. Honestly. For real. Yeah.

You know, and I'm very thankful because I have a lot of great friends. Marie Nicola is one of my best friend. She's really great at holding space for other people. So, you know, I learned a lot from her. Marie Nicola. Mary Nicola. Mary Nicola. Marie Nicola.

Marie Nicola. And so she holds a lot of great space for people. and very lucky you have a lot of women in my life that know how to do that. So, you know, you teach each other how to do it, right? And so it gives me the ability to go in and hold space with others too, right? So you can listen to them for long periods of time and get stuck in each other's tractor beams. Yeah, that could be, I mean, I'd imagine that that's also, you know, there's a line there where it becomes a lot, I'm sure. You know, I've spoken to, I have a friend who worked for Mufon for a very long time. And, you know, it took a toll on him, dealing with

experiencers. He had to, you know, especially abductees, you know, speaking to these people, it was a lot of trauma, a lot of PTSD. And, you know, there is that sort of hitchhiker effect as well, and there's all these other things that come along with it. But it can be, it can definitely take its toll. Did you feel yourself, you know, being a little bit like beaten up after this experience? Or did you take away, you know, more of like a positive feedback from it? Not beaten up by listening to the stories. I think it was just the I want to do my best to say if it is or it isn't. And not try to be swayed and to be like, well, I should just say it is because it's what people want to hear.

So sticking to my values and my convictions. You were the right person for the job. Well, trying to, right? Because like, you know, and again, like we, for sure, there are more data that could come out and we can make mistakes too. True. Because they are opinions. Like, I am trying to go off data. So I try to stick to the data.

And then I listen to the testimony. And testimony can always change your opinion too, depending on your data points, right? Testimony is so important. And there was, for example, one account where I saw everything and I saw the video. But I was like, I want to hear the testimony. I said, and that's really what changed my perspective of it. Because, yeah, because I had to ask all these other questions to fill in the blanks, you know, from the video I was seeing. So there's stuff like that.

There was another one, for example, it was we thought we had the best UFO case. So I see the photo open up and I'm like, wow, like that's amazing. And it's like a UFO from Peru. I'm like, even better. So we're like, they're like, this must be the best photo ever taken. I was like, oh, my God. So I'm looking through the data points and I'm like reading through everything. And I'm like, watermarked Billy Meyer.

You're like, no. Exactly. I've seen that somewhere. And so I'm looking through like, yeah, the data points. And so the story that, you know, I had to ask her to make sure it was for sure what we thought it was. Because first of all, if anyone's watched the show, they would know this account. But we thought, okay, we know what it is. We think we've debunked it.

But we need to ask her. So I go in there and I'm like, so what were you traveling like on and in? And she was like, I go, you know, and she's like, well, I was on a train. And I'm like, this is exactly what it is. So I start asking her questions because she doesn't know what I know, which is a lot. which is also kind of not fair to. Yeah, this is where your little spy tactics come in. But I did have to ask her proper questions

to get the rest of the story out because we didn't have that a countdown. So we just took from what the knowledge we knew. Shout out to Ben Hanson. Amazing, he was one of the experts in the back end. Like, I love Ben. Like, he just, he instantly knew what it was. And I was like, yeah, because he's been on that train.

So there's one train. Oh, that's specific train. There's one train that's in Peru. And so what happened was this woman was we found out was on a train. She took a photo through the window. And this is so great. She took a photo through the window. Just kind of like of the Peruvian mountains, right?

Like just this is really beautiful. And so the UFO, I can send you the picture. You can cut it in if you want. UFO has like a little like smoke trail in the back it looks like. Okay. Just like a cloud. It's just like perfectly situated there. So she takes it and then she develops it later and like looks and goes like,

oh my gosh, what is this? Like I just captured something. So we find out she's on the train. And then we're like, what could this possibly be? We end up looking around in the train. There's a light that is like a circular light. And I put both pictures side by side. And they both look the same.

And I go, does this look like what you saw? And she said, yes. And I said, okay. I said, when you took a photo, the reflection from, the light that's in the train was reflecting through the glass. The glass took the UFO, but it looked like it took a picture of a UFO, but it's really just the light upside down. And I go, but that's why you couldn't see it when you looked through the window.

And she was like, oh, but she was kind of like went in being like, I just want to know what it is. Sure, yeah. She didn't have really any feeling. Exactly. And so, but I was like, what a great case. But Ben, he was like, right away. I was like, you are such a good, such a good investigator. I was like, you knew that so well, like, instantly.

I said, and also, like, you knew it was a train. Yeah. Like, how did you know that? But she never said she was on a train. So that's the best. Those, like, those ones, you can't beat that. I love that. I love the idea that we're getting fooled not by AI,

but we're still getting fooled by, like, double exposure and reflections. And, you know, there was the famous, what was that case in Florida? what was that case? It was, I forget the name, it was like the, the bay or something, but there was a case where somebody had taken multiple photos of a craft, and then somebody tried and debunk it,

try to debunk it by doing like double exposure with their Polaroid cameras, where you take half the picture, and, oh gosh, I wish I could remember the name, terrible. But anyways, it was, yeah, it was proven to be, again, just like another camera trick, And this is something it's so funny because nowadays, we don't do camera tricks anymore.

We do AI tricks. We do digital enhancement or we do CGI, you know. And back in the day, a camera trick was like you had to play with lighting and exposure. And like there's a lot of effort that went into like a hoaxed photo. It wasn't just. Deli Myers knows. Exactly. It wasn't just, you know, copy paste or a prompt like nowadays.

is do you think as we move forward, and I have my own thoughts on this, but do you think as we move forward that we're just going to be up against this unmanageable monster of, you know, of fake photos and documents? Probably, but we're, again, if you work with debunkers, we'll be able to prove it.

So we'll be able to work together in people that, are in the field that are in the digital fields that can say, you know, this is CG, this is that. Those people are really important now than ever. Right. So I think they'll come in, right? There's a room for everyone to have a job. Yeah.

Seriously. If you don't think you can have a job in like doing any research in UFOs, that is not true. Your job will apply to this job. It just we need some. Everyone has a part here. So I meet so many people. I don't, they worked with topographical maps. Right.

And he was like, this is what I do. Like radar and stuff. Yeah. And he's like, this is what I do with my job. But I don't know if there's a way I can help. And I said, oh my gosh. I was like, seriously, dude? It's like, there's so much you can do.

I said, there's like, there is so much. I'm like, it just, it depends on any type of analysis is great. Doesn't matter what it is. But everybody has a job of contribution of something they can help. It's just how they end up maybe doing it, right? Yeah, so I think we will. I think it will get bigger. The pool of people will just get bigger and bigger.

The expertise will be a little more refined and fine-tuned to what we're seeing now. Yeah, exactly. And as technology picks up, we see all these, like, wonderful people that are coming in and we'll be financing. You know, edge science are related to UAP. Right. It just takes a long time to finance something like that because you're not getting a direct return. And like, how do you fund something like that? So they're coming up with funding models now.

And we're seeing them when they were talking about, them it's sold. And that's really great to see because you're seeing this financial side. And like this big business side, if people like it or not, it's happening, right? It's attracting a lot of tech people, a lot of big money in tech as well. Yeah, obviously there's, you know, if any of this turns out to be reproducible. I mean, there's instant trillionaires. So it is very interesting to a lot of people getting into this on a financial side. Yeah. And like, people always say, well, you shouldn't be making money off UFOs. And it's like, okay, well, if you're, you know, selling American footage to, you know, to other media outlets and you're making money

off it when it's taxpayer money, that's totally different. Like, that's not cool, right? But when you're promoting something and trying to break a story, there's a difference because how the heck are we going to use that as an evidence piece or a data point to help prove? But we're not, you know, you're not making amounts of money off it, right? You're not trying to do deals on the back end. But I think with tech, people are going to make money. They have to make money. It just is the way the world works, right? At least in a capitalistic society, you have to so that they can fund. And some people don't care about UFOs. They care about their investment or they care about edge science. They all have different degrees to come in, but we need all of those people like we do with

tech. We need them to come in and see this is very interesting. And then we have the theologians or we have the philosophers and the people in psychology and the soft sciences that can come in and say, like, well, let's look at this from like our perspective, a humanity's perspective too, right? Well, the investors and funders are just backing all the hard science. So what's happening now, it just takes a long time to get a return if you get anything. It's exciting, though. It is exciting, and it's so new because when people go into conferences, I made a joke with Seoul. You know, it's such a great conference.

There's so many academics and there's so many leaders there that you get to talk to. And everybody's just kind of, you know, at the beginning of something so wonderful. But I was like, there should be a joke on, like, Saturday night. You know, we all take out our UFO, like, tinfoil hats and put them on. I got one right here. Oh, do you? Yeah, and like take a group picture. Good old caller.

Oh, I thought we got to make a tinfoil one too on the side. But I was like, we all like bring out our tinfoil hats and like, you know, sit back and take a photo and just mock, mock, you know, own it. Yeah. I think we own that stereotype so that we just make fun of it. That's been my biggest thing is like I think a lot of people in the UFO space are obviously taking it very seriously because. it is a, you know, if you want it to be, it can be a very serious topic. Yeah. But, you know, part of the way that I see it is, this is a little silly.

Like, we have to also, we have to also understand that we're adults, you know, talking about something that we were raised on to be very silly. This is a very silly topic to my younger self, right? And so, and I'm okay with that. I'm okay with this being a little silly and being like, yeah, let's laugh at this for a second. This is wild that we're getting this footage of like, of an extraterrestrial. Yeah, this is silly, but in the greatest way. It's not silly in a mocking, sort of denigrating, you know, type of way.

It's more like, hey, this is silly, but we're all a part of it, and it's uplifting, and it's fun. Yeah. It can be, you know, great for story time. It's fantastic. Yeah, and as an entertainment value, I see it as very important. You know, there was, you look back into World War II, the amount of money that was poured in. from the government to fund entertainment just to keep the people at home appease during the war,

you know, everything was fine. So like all these amazing movies came out, you know, a cast-a-blank, all these, like, they all came out during that sort of wartime. Entertainment serves an incredible amount of value, especially in a distressed society. And I think the closer we get to this UAP stuff, the scarier it's going to be for a lot of people.

and I think we do need some entertainment aspect that does cover this in a way that isn't always 100% serious. Like we can make light of something and still be enlightened by it. We don't have to completely reject it, but we can also make fun and have fun. Yeah, and we should be able to play in the space. Yeah. I always say, I mean, seriously, I know I agree. It should be. It should be approachable, right? And how do we do that?

And everyone will have a point where they're like their point person or somebody. that connects them to it, talks to them about it, could be their neighbor, it could be a podcaster, could be anybody. So yeah, I do agree with you on that. It's such a really solid point because we're going through a challenging time right now. But I always laugh because I'm like, why are UFOs? I'm like, I could do so many. I was like, why didn't I get into politics? I'm like, why didn't I get into like this and that? But I'm like, why? And I kind of laugh to myself consistently where I go, it's UFO. It's going on. I'm like, it's like, it's like, it's going. You're in a skiff right now talking about aliens.

It's just, and I laugh all the time because I'm like, why? And I always ask my own self that. Why? Like, why, why, why? Why do I like this so much? And I know a lot about myself or I hope I do as I'm learning God every day. I think we are that, you know, why it interests me. I know that.

But sometimes I'm like, why? And why do I have to wake up every day and like, you know, think about like certain topics, the first thing that pops in my head is just like, not all the time, but sometimes, I'm like, why is this happening or a connection to a story? You know, and I'm like, showering, like thinking about it. And I'm like, but it's a mental sport. And I've said that on my, on my acts, it's a mental sport to me. It is not, like, I like sports. I'm a basketball fan. And I like, that's probably, that's about really about it. And I like, um, like all different types of like, I guess watching sports to a degree, but more of a basketball fan. But this is a,

is my mental sport. This is like where I'll be able to like dive in and it's got everything you need from philosophy to history to psychology to stats and you can commentate this. Starting lineup. Yeah. Well, yeah. I was like I kept saying at Seoul. I was like, you know what's amazing? I was like, we have a fantasy football league team that's going into the government right now. And I was like, if you had to pick your starting lineup for who your players would be for disclosure, let's look at them. Whoa, that's, hold on. I love this. Isn't it good? Okay, wait. Thank you. People like Chrissy. I was like, it's true, though. Pick your fantasy football league.

All right, we got to make this the thing. But what's, okay. John Radcliffe, he's in the CIA, man. Let's go. It's crazy. Your top five for disclosure right now. Oh, gosh. Well, John, he's in it right now. I would say the lineup that we have is not bad at all. I would put Lou in Congress at one point too. I would obviously would put Mellon in there too because why wouldn't he? He makes sense to be in there.

But what position? I don't know where I would put Mellon in the position. Yeah, let's not worry about the position. Let's worry about like who's on the team. You got five people, the starting lineup. Okay, I haven't thought that far through. I just know our starting lineup that's like the Trump administration has. I know my starting lineup.

Okay. Very interested. This is a great question. Yeah, and it's a fun. Super fun. Yeah, but it's also like reality. And you can go, you can go researchers too. I can go, are they, can they be dead?

Dead or alive? Okay, good. Yeah. Oh, man. Valet, 100%. People might be like, these are all known people. But yeah, valet for sure, I would put in there. I wonder if I would put off a journalist.

How'll put off for sure. Yeah, how'll put off for sure on that. I wonder if I would put a journalist in there. I wonder, maybe as the director of communications or like a secretary, you know, a press secretary. Who did you see? Oh, man. Schellenberger, would it be?

You? No, I would love that. Trust me. Actually, I like to go. Leslie Kane, yeah, I'd like to see probably a woman in that too. But a man, I'm like, I know. Actually, you know what? Bryce Sable would be really good at that. Bryce is actually really good at talking directly. I would put Bryce in.

Yeah, I would. Just spending time with him and seeing how he works and how he knows how to anchor the story and comes off at different than Ross. They're like yin and yang and that. Yeah, Ross would be another great pick there as well. Yeah, it would be. But everyone would be great, let's be honest.

But you got to do the lineup. Yeah, and then melon too. So melon. And Lou? Yeah, I would, yes, melon or Lou. Okay. I think I would do either. For the same position.

Yeah, again, but then Jake Stratton is in that too, right? He's coming out with a book, isn't he as well? Yeah, he is. So I don't know, there's so many of them. But for sure, I think valet should be overseeing everything. Yeah, oh my God. Hineck at the top? I know.

At the helm? I know. There's too many people. There are too many. What would be your starting going up? Yeah, it's hard. Yeah, very similar. Very similar to yours. I love the angle of a journalist. I didn't think about that. And for me, I mean, a toss up between Leslie and Ross, I think, for that position. Press Secretary makes sense for a journalist.

Yeah, it really does make sense. I do love Hal, Hal put off. I think that's a great choice. Jacques Valet, because just, like from the sort of philosophical, scientific, you know, sort of like different side of things. We need somebody who thinks a little outside the box. Yeah. And then we need like nuts and bolts guy, right? So, you know, whether Lou or Grush maybe or like, you know, one of these guys who's, I would probably go with someone who has like a very good grasp on the mechanics and like the real nuts and bolts.

And I know, I think Grush has like an engineering background, right? So that maybe that. And then, yeah, I guess, I guess somebody who's familiar with, you know, running projects like this would be, would be an interesting, but maybe Hynick. I think, I think Hynick would be, you know, just somebody who's seen this stuff. Bigelow would be interesting. Bigelow would be interesting too. We need to get those Nid files out.

The Lorenzins also. Yeah. I mean, yeah, there's, oh, I mean, Bob Lazar. That's just a personal, this is a person, that's my personal pick, my personal draft pick would be Bob. Yeah, I would have, I would have Bob in there. Bob would be, like, making things that, like blowing up in the back end. Yeah, what's going on? Exactly.

We need a loose cannon. Yeah, I'd be like, yeah, put him as like, yeah, the head of like, I don't know, if it's a propulsion. Yeah, right, exactly, yeah. Yeah. Fitting. Right, it makes sense, yeah. Yeah, like, this is wild.

It's a great thought experiment. Right? It's fun. And so I laughed because when it came out, I was like, this is like fantasy football. Yeah. I was like, I can't believe the starting lineup. You know, if you like politics or not in the Trump administration side or not, it's a wild UFO lineup. Yeah.

Like it's, absolutely. Yeah. And also with that said, we'll see about the JFK stuff that will hopefully come out too. Which recently even they've been alluding to, they're looking into it or something. There's something floating around Twitter. Here's a thing. I have my theory on this. This is my conspiracy theory on the JFK.

inside. And I was telling you're in the right place. Right. It's like, I think that Trump could have led out those files last time he was in administration and he did it. He did, there was some files that were to classify it, I believe. Yes, but not everything. And he had the choice to do everything or not.

I might be wrong about that. Please someone correct me. If I'm wrong, I always want to know the other side. I do have a feeling that the reason why is that we know that George Bush, senior was the head of the CIA then, obviously, right? Yeah. And did not like Kennedy. whatsoever. And so the conversation now is with George Bush Jr. is still alive. And the Bush family

is such a dynasty. Yeah. That if there's something within those dynasties of families that have so much information and know so much, the choice as a president from a former president is to probably protect each other into some degree. You know, you do probably have like a brocode when you're a president, I would imagine. So you're like, you know what? Let's wait until he passes and then we'll let that other. So my theory is that... Unless his kids get into politics. But they're not from what we see that I know of. I might be wrong.

So someone tell me, but they're pretty quiet, right? When it comes politically, you know, and right now, George and I know when his daughter talk about they just do painting and he's in yoga and stuff. And I was like, good for you, George. But gosh, you know, if you like him or not. And anyway, that's another story. But I do think that once the Bush family is not in the limelight anymore and that dynasty is not as strong as it was in the media, then it won't be like retaliation.

And so I think by president, he knows that something is going on with George Bush Sr. Yep. And it's not. Yeah, by proxy. There's, I mean, that's a great point because one of the biggest. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. You know, that was definitely one of the biggest cases of contention for, for this not being released was everyone who had something to do with it is dead. Why don't we release it? But like you said, there's much more to that. There's, yeah, there's a tie in directly to that. I never thought of that. 9-11 really connected to obviously

George Bush Jr. too. So it's going to be like, if your dad did this, we want to know this. He was asked about that too. He was asked about declassifying those files as well, Trump. And he said he would do it. So that, yeah. I mean, if that comes out, maybe not one without the other.

This is going to get crazy. It might get crazy real quick. It might be a lot of fluff. You know, we're, I mean, you know, I wouldn't put it past them to like, you know, say these things and not do them. That, you know, that's something that politicians are really great at too.

But, you know, that's the other thing. Is that really interesting about Trump in the UFO community? Yeah. Is that when voting happened, you were not only voting for who your president was going to be in the United States. You were voting for who the president of disclosure to some extent was going to be. Good point. Because a lot of that, a lot of the talk in the circles is 2027 or 2026 or 2028.

It's around there, right? 27 comes up a lot. Lou brings it up a lot as well. And, you know, if that's the case, then the president you chose is going to be the president who's going to disclose, you know, aliens. And so a lot of people looked at it like who was more favorable to disclose, you know, that stuff between, you know, Kamala and Trump. And I think a lot of people saw that Trump at least mentioned it. Yeah.

Right. So, yeah, I might assuade some votes, I guess. I don't know. I've had an interesting conversation with somebody who does targeted bomb dropping, which is like a very interesting job in Intel. Yeah, and in all the places we met on a plane. Imagine having a dull conversation with someone like that? We met on a plane and I sat beside him.

Wow. Yeah, and then we were like Insta friends, right? He's like, what do you do? I was like, what do you do? No way he just told you that. Well, yeah, we just, he can't tell me that. That's insane. But I, like, grilled him about his job.

Why wouldn't I? Did he know you were like? No idea. No, he didn't. Like an investigation. No, but I was, and more like for, you know, his interest in the topic is interesting, but he's not like a big UFO guy.

Right. But I was really curious about his job. So like, I asked a lot of questions. Because I was like, this is a wild. And then I also like asked him of like, how does that feel doing that job? Yeah, like it's a rough job. It's a hard job.

Do you disconnect completely? You have to to some degree. And I think that there's, yeah, like it's not easy working in the government to some degree when you make choices, right? And you have to make those types of choices. Yeah, you might as well be playing a video game like in your head because that is. But I did say to him, you know, I'm hearing this thing like 2027. Like, what are you hearing? I'm like, you have a secret computer. Like what's in your secret computer? And he, we were talking,

but I asked him from a perspective about when China will invade Taiwan. I said, you know, outside of UFO stuff, I said, I keep hearing 2027. It was 2025, that it was a prediction at the end of this year. It's been pushed to 2027 now. And now people, and not so much what he's told me, but I know people in the intel community have told me that they're pushing it to, you know, 2030, right? Right.

So I do have, again, a pet theory that there is this connection between this date of 2027 and maybe related to what is going to go on around the world globally when it comes to us. It's not so much like, hey, they're here. It's more about you're going to kill yourself if you guys don't figure it out. And so the comment that was really interesting when we chatted was because when you work in the Air Force, and somebody please tell me this, and I want to write something on it, but I haven't found it. And again, this could be, I'm not trying to start a conspiracy. I'm more about curiosity.

I'm about starting a conspiracy, so let's go. Just disclaimer. Yeah, he's just going to cut this section. No, no, no. Whatever she says is, I see it this way. Yeah. We got it. Shit. And so I said to him, you know, we were chatting about the time and he said 2027 and I said, yeah, I go, but in the UFO world, I said, do you want to hear something?

And I go along with the experiencers. I go, Experiences are saying this. You know, we're hearing about China invading Taiwan. Again, they want to push it to 2030. But if that happening and if America gets involved or Canada gets involved and becomes a global conflict, you know, being 2027. And then Experiences, 2027, something's going to happen, like fault lines or all these things, right? Like, there's something, they're safe zones. I've heard all this stuff too. And then the other part, as I hear is like, okay, the science side, Pioneer, I believe, this is interesting. I think they can look up. It was 2027, I believe, is that when Pioneer, they did, UCLA put like a craft on Pioneer,

and it obviously went into interstellar space. But it was going to trajectory potential civilization. So their prediction that when something will come back to us, a suburb communication will be 2027. I know. I was like, stop, you know. If you believe John Romero is former CIA agent, you know, he says 2027. Some people like it stuff.

Some people don't. I don't follow it myself. But, you know, that's a conversation. There's so many things. But what do he say? That's he says that something's going to happen. The massive disclosure, I believe will be 2027. He said this.

I believe so, yeah. John Ramirez has said this. No, but the guy in the plane. No. Okay. I'm like, wait, hold on. This guy knows. Sorry, scary.

No. No, so I start telling him all this stuff. And then he says out loud, he's just like, well, yeah, in the Air Force, there's like this patch that like everybody wears. It says 2027. And then we both stopped. It went like this. And then he's like, wait, why? Why?

And so I asked him, but I don't know if he knows what the patch is about because we didn't talk about. So I was like, I got to see this freaking patch. Look it. Let's look it up. Let's look it up. So I was like, no way. No way. And so I leave, you know, the plane and I'm like, maybe I know something.

It's like, the timeline. Probably not, though. But it is, yeah, let's see this patch. But I think that you can, oh, no, I think Marie did this. I did tell my friend and Marie looked it up and she said there's something about a graduation. That's 2027 that they wear a patch. Just the numbers, yeah, 2027. Yeah, it's the Air Force specifically that wears it.

Huh. So I was like, what does this mean? I'm like, what do they know? Yeah, that is crazy. It's crazy, especially when it's the Air Force. So that's probably a huge conspiracy theory. When Space Force starts where in 2027, that's when we should be concerned. Yeah, exactly.

Or naval intelligence. Right. So that's going to start a conspiracy theory. But my little conspiracy theory on the brain, sorry, on the plane was like, oh, wow. But I'm hearing it from all circles. So the academic circle is saying this from past historical stuff, UCLA. We're hearing it from, you know, people that are working. Former intelligence.

Former intelligence. Or we know from certain people saying there's a timeline. We're hearing it from experiencers. You know, and this guy that doesn't really, he's not really into UFOs is like telling me stuff related talking about China and global conflicts. So like there's a lot here. There is a, it seems that way. It seems like a culmination. I, you know, people, people in our age demographic, you know, we've been subjected to quite a few of these things.

I think the last one I fell for was like 2012 and before that was Y2K. And, you know, we had a 2021, I believe. there was like the winter solstice something was supposed to happen there. And like, you know, we get these ever so often. But, you know, do we really ever, you know, because it's happened in the UFO community too. Do we really ever hold people accountable when it doesn't happen? No. Well, we do.

Or do we? Because, like, I know Bashar as well has, you know, the guy that does like the channeling, the Bashar guy. Oh, yes, yes, yes. Yeah. So, like, he, you know, he also says those dates. But then he's kind of smart because he's got like a, he kind of goes in this timeline. You know, if we keep doing things this way, it will happen.

But if we, you know, start shifting, then it won't happen. I'm like, that's it. That's how you got to do it. That's if you're going to predict something, you can't just like straighten Ostermicate, you got to have an out, you know? Yeah. That's my magician mind thinking. Right.

Fair enough. I'm like, that's so true. I fell for like the Y2K. I was on a plane, actually, and I was going to Tanzania. and I was sitting with this guy, and we dropped down in Ethiopia first, and I was sitting with a priest. It's a wild story. And he said to me, and he's like, you know, and I was like, well, the day that we land is, you know, the world on the other side is going to, like, disconnect. Like, it's supposed to, you know, it's all going to change.

And he's like, yeah, but you know where the safe spot is? And I said, where? He goes, Ethiopia. And I went, no shit. So before he landed, I was like. There's no Wi-Fi in Ethiopia? I was like, well, apparently, like, biblically, and also there was, you know, if you're looking at the start of time, there's so much like history around Ethiopia. It's also higher up to an altitude.

So there's other things, but he just said, he's like, yeah, this is a safe spot. And I was like, wow. You know, and so when we landed, I was like, wonder what's going to happen? You're ground zero. Yeah, I was like, wow, if this is actually true, obviously I'm here, so it didn't. But I laughed because I was like, out of all the places and this priest tells me I'm on a plane. I was like, what does this mean? Yeah, maybe that timeline.

A wild story. Yeah. Happened in a different timeline, perhaps. Yeah, exactly. Wasn't Ethiopia also, like, is there rumors to, that Ethiopia has like the Ark of the Covenant? Isn't that like another? I believe so. And one of the first, I forget her name, one of the oldest, I think, remains were found

too, like beginning for like civilization. Spears or something. Yeah. There's a full body was found, I believe, though, too. I forget her name. It was a female. But yeah, there's so much to Ethiopia that is just historical and fascinating. And it is great.

But I was going to Tanzania outside of it. I was just kind of stopping over there. Is that the mountain? Kilimanjaro, is it right? Kilimanjaro, yeah. Was that where you're going to do? No, I was in Arusha, so I did fly into it. So I've seen it a couple times.

I was down there doing some work with MTV. We were doing a program. producing and doing some PR on the back end with them. I was working with a non-for-profit and an NGO and we filmed a piece where we're trying to show the just a position of youth in Tanzania and what it was like to be Canadian and what it was like to be. Wow. Yeah.

And so we went into all different orphanages and I've met so many different programs that were being done by the local community that needed funding. So it was just, like, Africa has such a spirit that we do not understand. like unless you like you live there. Yeah, I've never been. Obviously if you're African, it's, it's something else. Like it's just, we don't understand community. They do.

And that continent does and all those countries really do. There's just the greed is so bad, right? And the corruption is so bad and it's so unfortunate. But it was one of the best experiences I've ever had in my life. And I've gone back twice. I took my mom the second time because it like totally changed me when I came home. I, you know, I will say my sister was really one of those people that was doing work in Africa when she was 19 and she was an influence to that. She was doing some work with

Save the Elephants. She was doing some stuff. She literally jumped on a plane at 19 and was like doing some stuff with CNN. Whoa. Yeah, like she's got balls. Was she like a big inspiration for you growing up? Yeah, I think in many ways. My sister's in media. She's just, she's my bigger sister. And like, you know, we don't always agree eye to eye and we haven't for years, but we, I think we've come to this really understanding, like family understanding, dealing with hard stuff, watching each other grow being, understanding our backgrounds of like how we grew up and the things that we love and how we're so similar, but how we're so different. And we're both really strong women. So that's, it's interesting. Yeah, she's, she's influenced me. And I have so many people and women that have influenced me in my life.

But for sure she is. And like, you know, when I do an interview or something, Adele will be like, this was great. Do that. Tweek this. You know, and I love that. Or like, Marie will do it for me. And so many people. So, yeah, I'm very lucky to have them. But yeah, yeah, like, Adel for sure was inspiration in many ways because when I was growing up, she would talk about Africa. Like, she was there. She's five years older than I am. So she was like living in. And when she came home, I remember picking her up with my parents and how much it changed her. And then when I went and experienced it, I understood what she was talking about. Wow. And we've been lucky enough, you know, Adele and I have done co-projects together where we help build an orphanage in Honduras.

We did that about seven years ago. And my friend was there. Yeah, we raised like 10 grand and we went and we built it in the middle of the mountains in Honduras. That's amazing. Yeah, it was a grade school, like one building, one room kind of classroom. Yeah. So that was really great. And like lived with the local community, just lived in like, you know, a local kind of. Yeah.

So it wasn't a hotel or anything. So we just, you know, you're just doing the groundwork, right? Which is actually like a lot of fun because you're. For sure. Yeah. And like. You're learning so many things, I'm sure. Well, yeah.

And you're seeing so much. And you're talking to so many people and you're seeing how people live and you're like, wow. And it just opens your eyes. Like, you know, I understand to a degree, you know, when looking at certain areas within Tanzania, I won't say, because that's my only been to Ethiopia and Tanzania. I've been all throughout Africa, right? And every country is different and everybody is different, right? But understanding, like, you know, being how there is this moment of how poverty does expand over time. And it's so sad. And you see how these people are just doing their best and living their best lives. And someone said to me, you know, You know, Chrissy, we're not unhappy people. We're just unhappy with our situation. And it just, this guy was like 15 or something, 16.

And I was like, ain't that the truth. To be that wise already. Yeah. And I was like, wow. Like, thank you for saying that to me and like, and like showing me like this amazing connection. Yeah. That like I don't, we don't have within community within our own. We have it maybe with friends in our internal community.

But this was like everywhere. Yeah. And so. Wow. Yeah. It's really beautiful. and there's something there that I think, you know, again, my sister experienced, I got to experience, and then I brought my mom with me so that she could experience it. And she was just like, this is,

I'm like, it's, you know, it was funny because your mom and you're like, mom, like, let's go. And she's like, Krissy. I was like, mom, you can't, you can't take photos of everything. That's cute. Yeah. It was a funny. Also, it's like different ages. Like, you know, millennial to like boomer, right? Like traveling and just, or she's so used to traveling different ways where I'd be, like roughing it. I was like, let's go. And then we almost missed a plane. I was like, we got to get on the bus. Let's go, Annie. She's like, I just want to go into the gift shop. Yeah. No, like we got to go. So like this close to missing a plane to like fly out, you know, you're like, mom. It's good time. It was. It's a, it's a, it's, yeah, traveling. Traveling, traveling with

the parents is always a fun experience. Yeah. Um, okay. Well, let's, uh, I want to, I want to wrap things up a little bit here. And then after, if you still have time, I'd love to continue some of these conversations in the Patreon episode, like 20 minutes, if that's cool. Yeah, that's cool. I did want to mention something and feel free to, you know, if you want to talk about this or not. But when we had spoken the first time,

you'd mention like the UN and their involvement with UAP. Yeah. Can you maybe fill us in a little bit on on what's going on with that? Like, what's the plan there? Well, we're hoping that the UN gets involved. So Jacques Valet was one of the first people to put it forward that the UN. I believe this again, if I'm wrong in my history, someone cracked me. But Jacques Valet was one of the first, and then along with Lee Spiegel.

And then he partnered up with Jack Belay again to bring it to research the topic. So I believe it's had two kind of resurgence. Now there's three. Paulo who is, I'm, Apollo's going to kill me. I'm forgetting his last name, is based in Italy. But they're trying to get Sam Marino to be the major hub, right? It's a very, very small country, but it's beautiful and close to Italy and Europe. And so you'll be able to like fly in and this would be like a point where delegates and scientists and people could go consistently or at least once a year for like a week and have a conference like a UN like a G summit kind of meeting idea and have people around the world talk and contribute ideas.

So Paulo has gotten where Samarino has agreed and has pushed it through somewhat of as a country agreements that they would host it. but they're trying to get Congress. And if anybody's out there, please help Paulo. And I'm trying to help him where they kind of want to stamp from Congress to say, or at least some politicians to be like, this is a great idea. And so the UN would also, you know, they've got a lot of other issues they're dealing with right now, right? So this would kind of be lower on the agenda. Yeah.

But it doesn't mean. Until 2027. Well, exactly. They're like, holy crap. Yeah, we need you guys. We're all like, here's the blueprint. We've already figured it out. Just let us in.

Well, we know what we're doing. We've got the team. We've got our fantasy football lineup in the UN. Exactly. Who am I bringing in for disclosure of the UN? But Paul was really doing a wonderful job. And he was at Seoul. And he was trying to talk to people that are related or connected to Congress so that he could get some form of government support from the American side.

I think we can get it from the Canadian side, from Larry McGuire. You know, we are going into an election. So that's going to be hard next year. Sometimes politicians don't want to get involved with such a, you know, a polarizing topic at times. because they don't want to say something and their party gets mad at them. Not like I know this from Larry. I just know in general it's how it works.

So maybe he'll say something or write something that is like a stamp for the United Nations and we can always ask Larry to do that publicly. And it would help propel that subject into the United Nations because it is important. Like there's so many reasons why we could have this. First of all, as a comms person in the background,

when you're part of the United Nations, you have all these wonderful people and around the world that are delegates and heads of their countries where we can say, this is when we have massive disclosure to some degree. This is what we do in a comm. So we don't react. We're proactive. And we go, here are all the things we can do. And we've agreed to do this around the world.

Like all of these countries that are here are saying, yes, this is the protocol and how we're going to do it. Yeah. You would think we'd have that in place. Like you look at all these movies of, you know, the event that. happens, whether it's a rival or whether it's like whatever the movie is, but you would think that like there is some type of blueprint, like you said, in place that's, you know, should this event arise, like this is how we proceed, but there isn't anything like that, right? Well, I think SETI has something, some degree. I think they're actually the point of contact if something does.

Really? Okay. That makes sense. Yeah, it does. But they're a not for profit. They're not huge, right? You need to have a bigger stance. They're not at the table. But they at least have a plan to some degree from what I know. Right. But the United Nations would have that plan, but it would be a global plan to who's ever in the United Nations like Greece. And that's how it would be executed to each country around the world. The comms would be similar so that we don't get into this polarization topics. The words are agreed upon and the words that we use are so important. You mean the words to communicate to these entities should they show up? Or to the public.

Or to the public. Both ways. I never thought about it that way. Right. You know, there needs to be some, do you need to think of that too? Yeah, right. That's why are we going to talk to these things or whatever it may be. Yeah, sure. Right? You know, and how it shows to some degree that we have to communicate with it. And we are communicating with it now, but how do you do it on a global way? So talking to whatever the phenomenon is and then talking to the masses around the world.

So we're not using polarized words. We're not using words that decides to separate. Yeah, weaponizing. Weaponizing and can be activating for people that are like, you know, don't, don't agree with it. So we find these common words around the world that we can use or we create words that we can use to have an understanding so it's not polarized and it's not reactive. And then from there, then we also look at all the data that comes in around. You know, we have national security, unfortunately, at times it's good and bad, right? Sometimes overclassification sucks.

But at least the stuff that we could get from around the world, we can then have a point group within the United Nations to be able to look. take AI and look through all the similarities and narrow down each year or every six months comes out with a report the same way Arrow does. And they say this is all the global phenomenon that we're seeing. This is all the occurrences. This is what they look like. This is the shapes. These are the experiences.

These are all the accounts. And we can narrow it down even more. And then now we have these global 1% where we're like, holy crap. Yeah. We can take AI doing what's going happen throughout the year. and then we can go back into history, and then we can do the exact same thing. Yeah, I mean, that's...

There's so many reasons why the UN could take it. That's exciting. It's fascinating to think about, too, that, like, you know, it might come to that one day in our lifetimes. Yeah. I hope so. Yeah, there's that famous, you know,

speech that Reagan gave at the UN. In our obsession with antagonisms of the moment, we often forget how much unites all the members of humanity. Perhaps we need some outside universal threat to make us recognize this common bound. I occasionally think how quickly our differences worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this world. And yet, I ask you, is not an alien force already among us? What could be more alien to the universal

aspirations of our peoples than war and the threat of war? that it was in front of the UN. That was in front of the UN. Oh, why shit? I didn't know that. I would just thought that it was a presidential speech. I didn't know my history. Clip it in here.

Yeah. But it was such, you know, such a, you know, a lot of conspiracy theorists are like, man, you know, it's so weird that he would say that. Like, hey, all we need is another worldly threat to unite us all. And this is like during a time. We're like, so, you know, but that there is a good point to that. It's like, why. Wasn't he read in, though? Don't we heard that he was potentially read into that?

I mean, potentially. I wouldn't put it past him being read in. But that is just such an important thing. And he is right. Is like, are we going to wait until there's a global conflict before we set this plan in motion? Or should we at least on a preparatory intelligence level have this already, you know, aside and ready to go?

Ready to go. Yeah. Ready to go. And agreed upon in many ways. You know, that's why we get into problems, right now is because we can't agree on certain words. We, you know, groups, lobbyist groups create things and they just know what they're doing because they have an agenda.

We all agree on the same agenda. We agree on the same words. Yeah. We can't get mad at each other. It's tough. Yeah. And you're always going to have people that are going to, you know, be like this, they freak out and I don't like how it's done. But at least if you have, yeah, it's true.

Bring them to the table then too. It's like, you know, you have a say you're the smallest country in the world. Yeah. Come on down. So I think there is a way to do it. It's just, and also this is, it would start now, whenever disclosure may be to what that degree looks like. If we're living in it, I think we are to some degree,

but bigger disclosure, big D, little D. I think in that larger mass, global scale, you have, it's going to take like 10 to 20 years to write that, right? It's going to take a long time. It's not going to happen in a year. You're just going to, you're going to have to look at your, yeah, language is so important. Antics.

So important. Delivery. Yeah. And like how do you do it? And then writing that like comms planned around how you would go about doing it. But then also just like what are the back history beats to all this? Because a person that's in the UN or the group that's in the UN that will be changing, will be transient. It will be a transient job to some degree.

You're also going to have delegates from around the world that that person or people will be talking to say, hey, Canada, what are you hearing? So then they're the collector of information. within the government, or just whoever it may be, it could be a civilian depending on the country. And here's the information, and then you have that direct point access. But then you do have to know the historical beat. So who's ever working on that is like, for sure, it's like, okay, now I've got to write a history,

a proper history background around this for everyone that's coming in. A lot of prep work. Yeah, employees who are coming in, so your employees are prepped. So it's like, you know, watch these videos for like five days. I got some links I could send them. Yeah, exactly. There's a ball in Manchester at the end. airport strip they should check out.

There's so many things like to the bat like it just it's going to take a long time. So we need to start it now so that we at least just have the dialogue and then we start prepping for it. And it actually wouldn't be a lot of money for the United Nations to do it. It actually like you're just employing people to do history beats and writing comp. It's using people's brains and data tools and stuff that we, they already have access to. You know, so it's not, it's actually could be done really cheap. We're not asking them to build telescopes.

No. We're using other people's telescopes. No, you bring up a great point. And it's so important, too, because the last thing you want is a world leader just coming off the top of the head with like whatever he's going to say to the people, you know, or his publicist drafting something up the night before. Like, this is the last thing you want. They're like, it's a weather balloon. We're like, ah. Yeah, but like, you know, it's, you know, that whole, you know, you know, that whole, you know,

The people of America, we are in contact now, you know, like, or whatever that sounds like, we don't, we don't want that being drafted up the night before. No. That's a great point. Like, we need, you need to choose your words wisely because you're going to affect the rest of history. I definitely believe that should some cataclysmic event or disclosure with a big D, as you put it, happen. I think that, you know, we're going to start counting from year zero again.

I do think we'll have a pre and post disclosure reality. I do, you know, I think that, you know, everything, just like now when we talk about, oh, before COVID, after COVID, it was such a big event that like we do think of time in that way now. We're like, oh, that was, yeah, but that was before COVID or that was before 9-11. Or like, we have these major events that our lives, our paradigms completely shifted. Our entire life shifted to some extent. But this would be, I mean, it would be as big as Jesus. You know, it would, exactly. And I do think that we're going to start at year zero when this happens, you know, in that.

It's a whole new world. Yeah, we need to have that map ready. You know, what are we doing? Yeah, you're right. And I think like our, for sure, in how we perceive time or what we understand, what we know about who we are and what does that mean and what is this thing? What are these things? Can I ask you, what's your theory? What theory do you lean closer to?

Okay, I lean closer to. I do like the idea of consciousness being this type of field that is omnipresent, that there is no beginning to, there is no end to, it just kind of is. And we are all just this manifestation of this consciousness. We are the universe expressing itself. I am a little node growing in a complex life form that has this, because I'm complex, I'm attracting this consciousness into me. And now I choose to sing and I choose to dance because that's what the universe wants. It wants to express itself.

And I think that's kind of what it all is. Now, you know, as far as the minutia of it and as far as like the little finer details, I do, you know, I do believe in, I've come around to these ideas, though, I was raised Catholic, became staunchly atheist due to being a magician for 20 years. You're sort of disenchanted by reality very quickly, to then coming around to being agnostic, and then now to being more open spiritually, but still not being opposed to like the scientific explanation for the spiritual things that we experience. So I think that at the end of it all, there are little things that can, you know, happen, such as we're being observed by these things, whether they're physical, you know, extra-dimensional or extra-tempestrial, like Michael Masters says.

It could be all of these things, but I think all of these things live under some type of umbrella. And I think whether you're us or whether you're a being that is a billion years more advanced, I think we're both in pursuit of the same answers. I just think that they might have a better grasp on it and they might be using us to somehow find the answers that they're looking for. That's an interesting perspective. Yeah, we're kind of like this.

We're all looking. Yeah, we're kind of like their version of AI. Like, you know, we all are a part of AI, whether we want to be or not. Yeah, and you know, you Google something. You're instantly part of AI, right? So we are a collective machine creating artificial intelligence, whether we know it or not.

You have no choice but to be part of the creation of AI in today's day and age on some level. If you're walking around with your phone, guess what? That's mapping where you're going. So we're all being used to create this artificial intelligence. I think that us as a species and probably many other species are being used in a not so dissimilar way to attain some other type of goal or some other type of answer. Yeah, I like the fact that you're, and it's true, why can't they be seekers? You know, I've said this a couple times, and I've talked about it with friends, and I think I said in a group podcast once on another show, and they said to me, there's talking about

it, and I was like, why do they always have to be perfect? I'm like, why can't they screw up? Because they're like, well, in Roswell, they crashed, and it's like, well, why can't, like, why does everything have to be perfect? Perfect. It doesn't exist. Yeah. It's not real.

Like, and why does it have to be in other dimensions? or whatever it may be, right? We're still learning so much. So I agree. Like, why can't they be seekers? Why can't they be looking and trying to ask questions and know and, you know, research us to find out what the answer is too? They're probably just as curious of us as we are of them, right?

Yeah, maybe there's something about what we're doing that informs them, you know, about the universe somehow that we're oblivious to. Yeah, it's true. You know, they're like, wow, they're painting. This is new. What is painting, you know, or whatever that is. Yeah, they're like gangster rap? Yeah.

exactly what do they do with their fingers they're like tupac definitely wasn't really yeah he was like yeah he definitely or a prophet yeah or in Cuba yeah all right please jupac I like that we're ending it on that this is a whole other rabbit hole for them to get into chrissey thank you so much for being a part of this inaugural episode of the skiff I appreciate your time here I appreciate what you're doing for humanity and not just the UFO subject. I really appreciate it. I think you're doing great things and I feel very appreciative of knowing you and being a part of it. So thank you for being here. Thank you for saying then. Thanks for having me. Guys, if you want to check out Chrissy's work, I'll leave the link to all the stuff we talked about below. You can check it out. Check her out on your socials. Check her podcast out, rebelliously curious on the debrief podcast network. Also, you know, catch her show on Discovery.

Remind me again the name? Alien Encounters Facter Fiction. There it is. Go check that out. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. Stick around. We're going to be heading into the Patreon for some overtime stuff.

And I got some deeper questions to ask Chrissy, so you'll want to join and stay tuned for that. Thanks, Chrissy. Thank you.