AREA52 - DEBRIEFED With Chris Ramsay - UFO Researcher Reveals New Alien Theory - Grant Cameron - DEBRIEFED ep. 79

Episode Date: March 13, 2026

Shop: https://area52.shop/Extra Episodes: https://www.patreon.com/c/Area52investigationsIn this episode I sit down with UFO researcher and author Grant Cameron for a wide ranging conversation about consciousness, contact, and the deeper patterns behind the phenomenon.Grant explains his Theory of Wow, the idea that encounters with the phenomenon are meant to inspire people and expand their perspective. Instead of simply revealing itself in a clear or controlled way, the phenomenon often produces experiences so profound and unexpected that they leave witnesses with a lasting sense of awe and curiosity.We also explore why artists, musicians, and highly creative people appear so often in contact stories, and what that might reveal about the relationship between creativity and non human intelligence.The conversation also touches on new stories surrounding Chris Bledsoe and the ongoing mystery of Timothy Taylor.

So that, he said at that point, he could heal people. This woman comes up to, and there's twins. These women are twins. They're in their 70s. One woman says, my sister here, she had a stroke. She can't hear. She's totally deaf. Can you heal her?

And Chris is standing out in front of the hotel. Suddenly his cell phone, there's Tim Taylor. Tim Taylor says, if you're in front of a hotel and someone needs a healing, go ahead and do it. No way. Yeah. So he says, I don't know. Wait, wait a second. Hold on a second.

It gets weird. This is so, this is so strange. He puts his hands. hands on her ears and he says, in the name of Jesus, like everybody said, name of Jesus, I heal you or whatever. And this woman goes into my lecture, and she comes out of a lecture and she says, I can hear. I can hear everything said. I can hear it? All the people from the conference go to this restaurant across the street. This girl comes back and she's distraught. She's like, holy, can you can't believe what

happened? It was like a third person who was in the conversation. She says, it was like, Tim Taylor, Jim Taylor. The phone was a transmitter phone that he had been given this phone. I if this is true. He'd been given this phone. It was a transmitter phone. Everything that he did was being recorded by somebody. That summer, a rich business guy out of New Jersey's, has a cottage, may have built a log cabin in, big log cabin in Pennsylvania. So I get invited, and the only guy with no money there, and suddenly Tim Taylor shows up, and it was my friend that invited him. And then he says to Tim Taylor, he says, hey, we're going on a UFO dig. You want to come along? And Tim goes, yeah, yeah, sure. So they go to the Gerald Anderson's case.

And they're pulling up this medal. And I still remember my friend, now he won't talk. He's forgotten everything. He's forgotten everything that happened. Tim Taylor said, when they got some of this mail, he said, this is the real eel. I had the download experience. So we talked about downloads. And he talked about the invention.

So he gets this invention. He's got 40 patents. And then he's in contact with, oh, he calls him the beings or wherever. He doesn't call him aliens, whatever. And they'd give him these inventions. So the first one came. He'd woke up in the morning with this idea in his head. And supposedly this company sold for $88 million or $100 million on NASDAQ or whatever.

and he said, the last thing I remember the night before was a hooded figure standing at the end of bed. So at one point, he pulls out his cell phone and he says, so what do you think of this? Shores me his photo, these two guys, on a painting.

And these two guys are flying through space on this painting. And they look like they got pajamas on, one guy's older than the other guy. And then he shows me another photograph of these balls all going down this tunnel. And then he shows me another one, this eclipse thing,

or the eclipse is taking place. And then he shows me this photograph, it's like a screen on the outside of a building. And then he shows me the catcher. He shows me this. This is 999 Sepulita Avenue. And then he says, you know what this is? He said, this is where the jump room was.

If I hadn't known who he was, I would have paid attention. I'm a U.S. Navy medical a while now and the anatomy of an alien, the EBOs. And I thought it was really interesting because the person speaks like a scientist. So in any dialect, that person has a similar dialect to somebody who does. biological research. While in initial training to become a Navy officer, the privilege to serve with a few people going to that same location. They were microbiologists. And if you know any of the connections, they were also Mormons. So I thought that was interesting. During the time, I got sort of to know that person as that if it were true to send me this non, that we've never

text each other before that I would reply to with wrong number. In that regard, they text me about two to three months after we had finished training with just that. Could they have been messing with me? Yes. One way or the other, it's a data point. Thanks. Welcome, Grant Cameron. Thank you very much. It's an honor to be here. Well, it's an honor to have you, sir. You know, I'm just sort of, you've been this trailblazer, especially for, you know, Canadian UFO researchers.

But honestly, just UFO researchers worldwide. You know, your career spans decades and looking into, you know, UFO insiders, government insiders, presidential papers, exploring the phenomenon from the nuts and bolts aspect all the way to the non-physical and sort of consciousness-based aspect of the phenomenon, which is something I'm looking forward to touching on. Yeah. As I'm sure, that's kind of like the peak of your research, which is really interesting. So yeah, thank you for making it all the way out here. I appreciate you. Well, it's an honor to be here and to be in the SCIF. And it's just hopefully you have a high enough security clearance to take what I can give you.

Not nearly high enough. And there's not many Canadians. So I appreciate the work you've done. I mean, you've done tremendous amount in a very short time. Yeah. Because usually we see it as American phenomena and there's not many Canadians. So I congratulate you on what you've done here. I'm very impressed.

Thank you so much. That means a lot coming from your grant. It really does. And you know what? To get it started, we were at lunch and you presented me with this here stone, this piece of what looks to be maybe some slate of a Canadian mountain range, I would assume. Well, it's not mountains. It's flat, but it's a lake area, like the lake area near Cronora, Ontario. And why is this particular rock so special? So this is one of the more, I guess there's two big famous stories, the Shag Harbor in Canada, and the second one is this one, is the Falcon Lake.

This is 1967, 10 days before the six-day war begins. And there's a geologist out looking for medals and stuff like that. And he tells a story where he's sitting there having lunch, sitting on a rock, and all of a sudden he hears the geysel go sort of crazy. And he looks and there's these two UFOs, hovering over the sort of a small little lake. and he watches and the one disappears and the one comes and lands and it would be about maybe 75 feet

from where he was sitting on this rock and so he looks at this and he thinks it's American American space, you know, test craft or whatever. The door opens on this thing and I always go when I talk to people about UFO sightings when they have UFO sightings and this falls in the same category

although it's very bizarre is when you ask people what was the UFO doing? I wasn't doing anything and this wasn't doing any either. It just landed and the door opened up and this guy was a Polish guy. His name was, I'm going to forget his name. Mitchelach. Yeah, Stephen Mickleck. So he walks up to this thing and the door is open. He can see this light coming out of it and he says, okay, Yankee boys, come on out, do you in trouble? You need some help or whatever? And there's no answer. And then he goes in Polish, he goes in Russian, you know, all sorts of languages and nothing really answers. And he

sort of looks in and you can see these lights and these walls are sort of very thick and whatever. And at that moment, the door sort of closes, and he's got his, he's got a rubber glove on because he's prospecting. He's got his rubber glove on, and the craft lifts off the ground and starts to rotate. And as it rotates around, there's a grid, which makes no sense whatsoever, a grid on the side of a flying saucer. And this hot air comes out, and it starts his shirt on fire. His glove is on fire. And he ends up with his burn patch, like a checkerboard on his, from this grid pattern. and the thing flies off, and he's throwing up, he's, you know, really trying to get back to Winnipeg,

and he managed to go back to Winnipeg. And it becomes one of the more famous story. Blue Book comes up to investigate it. It's investigated ruthlessly by he was down at Mayo Clinic, and his burn would come back on his chest, this sort of weird stuff that happens in ephology and in paranormal, where it goes away, then it comes back. Oh, I didn't know that. I didn't know that it came back. Yeah, we'd come back all the time.

Every couple of years, this would come back. So he had to go out to Mayo Clinic and people recovered his records and stuff like that. And it was a very, very famous case in Canada. It was some people called the Canadian Roswell. So there's been nobody at the site because it's a very remote site. It's off highway one just before you get to Falcon Lake. But you need to go in by horseback. Even today.

Even today. Well, I guess you could walk down the path. It's in a forest area, a real thick forest area off the highway. Yeah, that's, I mean, that's a testament to, you know, how far we've come. Yeah, yeah. There are places in the world that we still can't get to without a horse, which is wild. So there's a guy named Rob Freeman. If you know him, he has the big camera array.

Right. He has all these cameras and stuff. And I think he was down at the Monroe Institute doing some stuff there. And he does the blindfold reading, which I think is really, really important. He does the stuff with people seeing through blindfolds and stuff like that. Right. That's his latest research. But anyway, he was doing a film project.

He was in Mattolew. He wanted to do the Charlie Red Star, which was my case. And then he said, well, do you want to, we. you don't want to go to Falcon Lake. So I said, yeah, I'll go to Falcon Lake. So we went there and there's a tour guide who has a farm there or horses just off the highway and he then takes tours in there. And when we got to the site, there was, he identified the fact that there had been less than 100 people since 1967 who had actually been to this site. And so he's the film crew is filming and Rob Freeman's filming and this tour guide is explaining this whole thing and I'm sitting

there and I'm, you know, sort of bored. I'm walking around. I suddenly I'd see that the rock is all fracturing at the top of the rock. I'm thinking, well, this is a case where the UFO landed and there was no tripod. So it was actually sitting right on the rock. And so these pieces of, so I start picking up these pieces of rock. And then I fill up my pockets. And I figure, oh, I could sell these for like 50 bucks a piece at a conference, you know. And then I look at my assistant, she's picking up rock. She's putting them in her pocket. You know, that's filming is going on. And so from time to time, I give out. So this I brought for you. And it, it, it, it, the, the, the UFO was actually touching the rock that you have there. It was sitting right on the rock. And they had, I think, slight radiation, not really

radiation had some stuff. But they, the weird thing they had, which you see a lot, I wrote a book on it, on a ports of manifestations. So what they had is this metal, this silver metal that appeared in the cracks. Like, uh, like, like angel hair type? No, like actual metal. Okay. Yeah, actual pieces of metal that was in the cracks. But they didn't discover it, I think, too, they went in for another investigation at 68. That's when they found the metal. But you'll find that all the time. And I always refer to that as sort of the weird part of the UFO thing. I think, I say, do you think a UFO crossed across a thousand light years came to Earth and then pieces started falling off the UFO? Come on, give you edge of. I even talked to hell put off. I said,

hell, I said, you know this is up ports. This is not pieces of flying saucers. It's not, this is not, this is not things breaking off the flying saucer. This is, they're dropping this stuff on purpose to, to inspire you to do something and to make you. wonder what's going on. Yeah. The whole theory of wild thing. That's right. Aw and curious.

And so you'll have research. And I said, you even know because you had the experience with Yuri Geller. And that was the story that Yurigeller in 72, they were doing research with him. And so Edgar Mitchell helped put off and Yurie Geller go for lunch. And Yerigelor is eating ice cream. And suddenly he says, oh, what? And he pulls this thing out of his mouth and his lip is cut. And he, they look at him.

And then Edgar Mitchell says, that's my flight pin. What's my flight pin doing in your in your mouth? And he said he'd lost a flight pin in Houston two years before. And so he pulls this thing out and they're looking at this weird. This flight pin is in Uri's mouth. And so they go back to the SRI. And then Uri's in another room.

So I can't blame Uri for this. Yri's in one room. And Edgar Mitchell and Hale put off her sitting in the other room. And all of a sudden they hit his tink. And to look around the back half of the flight pin is on the floor. Oh, wow. And so that's what I said to hell. This is this weird stuff that they do.

Time slip stuff. So I wrote a whole book on this whole thing about ports of manifestations. You'll ask experiences. You know, they'll say, oh, I just had this one. UFO's saying, I say, hey, uh, anything ever fly around her house or fall out of the ceiling? Yeah. Can you hang on and go and bring back all this stuff and, oh, yeah, that has fallen in coins and we hear about liquid, you know, coming from these orbs, uh, even Chris Bledsoe.

You know, there are pictures that he's shared of molten metal. on the ground and you know you hear a lot of stories about things like that but then you know initially you wonder why like what's happening here is it shedding its skin is that is that just some property of how it instantiates but then the theory and i love this is something i wanted to bring up as well was your theory of wow uh is really interesting because it kind of neatly in a way ties together most of what we're experiencing here which is this idea that It is here to inspire you. It's instantiating in any,

it's kind of interacting with your consciousness to determine how to instantiate. And then when it does show up, it's meant to have you question things or to inspire you to create almost like a muse would. And I think that's really interesting when you look at the phenomenon from that lens because then it becomes more about

what is this trying to teach me rather than why are they here. And I think that's just more profound and aligns a lot more. more with the experiencer, experience, for lack of a better word, but in the fact that they feel like it happened for a reason. Like there was a message there, that there was some type of direction or guidance that was being attributed to them by these phenomena. And it's never a full message, because a full message is left brain. It's, we're here to bring freedom of democracy,

Jesus and McDonald's. What they're doing is freedom of democracy, Jesus and McDonald's. They're doing the right brain thing. It's a symbol. You're never going to figure it out. They don't give you the full answer. They just give you a breadcrumbs. So they do weird things like the one with Gary Nolan. I remember why I first saw it when Gary Nolan and Hal started doing all the analysis on the metal. And they had the ubituba piece.

Right. And they had two fragments of the uba tuba piece. And the one piece was completely normal. And the other one had all these isotopes were all messed up. And it's the same metal. It comes from the same craft. And I can just say, let's see whatever intelligence is just laughing. It's like, man, look at us.

Look at the expression on his face. And you see these. And they're so weird. That's the thing. like a crop circle or they wanted it to be really, really weird. Sometimes I call it the Jesus circus, where if Jesus hadn't walked on water fed 5,000 people, raised Lazarus from the dead,

you never heard of the guy. Right. And that's what they're doing. They're doing this weird thing where. So you talk about it. Yeah. So you talk about it. And you'd have cases like we had the one,

one of the most bizarre ones I had was a woman experienced her in the Tucson area. And she came into her bathroom. And there was a pile of dirt in the middle of the bathroom floor. And it had these little white discs in it. And it's like she's looking at the same. She photographs it. She brings in the researcher and he looks at it. And then they go to the restaurant and then they're sitting at the restaurant and somebody leaves the thing come back and they say,

look under your chair. She's got another pile of dirt under her chair. And it's these kind of weird things where it makes no, or they put the dime. A lot of those dimes. I remember I was actually talking to that researcher and he said, can I show you something? And he reaches over and he gets this thing full of dimes. I said, I know the dimes story. Everybody talks about dimes.

Their mother, dead mother was bringing them dimes. And people would find I used to volunteer at Ronald McDonald's. house. And one of the people that was a cleaner there, she said, my mother has all the time in here. I find dimes on the windowsills and stuff like that. And she believed it was her mother. But it's this weird sort of thing where they want it mysterious. And it's guiding you in almost like a synchronistic fashion where if you're open to it, you'll kind of start seeing a pattern. And otherwise you won't even see it at all, which again, you know, kind of favors the experienceer over the skeptic in terms of witnessing the phenomenon. Yeah. So there's the,

The way I sort of see it is there, there's two different levels. I always say that science doesn't work, they think they work on proof, but I say they work on belief. So what you have is you have a hypothesis, which is a guess. Right. Nothing more than a guess. I guess it's this. It looks like this.

You do some experiments, you do some observations, you do a conclusion, and what do you do? Make a theory. You make another guess. Yeah. You make another, and you make another, and you either time you get closer and closer and closer. The difference with the experiencer and stuff is if you had the experience, like you were talking about auto body experiences and stuff, people who have these non-local experiences,

they won't say, well, I think it was this. I'd say, I know. Right. There's a knowing. There's a knowing. It's called annoying. Even in the field, it's called unknowing. And that's what happened to me in 2013 when I had this download experience watching Colin Andrew give a lecture on crop circles, which I wasn't interested.

So the contact modality was I was daydreaming. Before we continue with today's conversation, I'd like to point something out. You see, I'm sitting here talking to a researcher. Someone who spends years digging through archives, documents, records, chasing information, most people never see. That kind of work requires curiosity, but here's the irony. While researchers are digging into hidden systems, there are companies quietly digging into us. Data brokers collect your name, address, phone number, email history, even relatives. And if you're researching sketchy subjects or speaking publicly like our guest

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Now let's get back to the research. I was just sort of my mind was wandering and all of a sudden, boom, all this stuff came into my head and I knew it. I walked around for two days. My head was just sort of spinning and I went, wow. You know, this is how, and I couldn't, I said it, you know, in 2012, I couldn't spell consciousness. But I couldn't care less. I mean, I didn't know, but it was just like just knowing. And then I was trying to figure out what's this mean?

And then it got more, the consciousness element got more elaborate, more elaborate, more elaborate. And suddenly I was going down that road. and I remember one major interviewer at the time said, I can't believe he's done this, Grant. I can't believe he was a president guy. He was kind of looking into nuts and bolts. I can't believe you've done this. And I said, well, Jerry, you know, I didn't really,

I didn't really choose to do it. I sort of got teleported there. It was not something that I entered. And you hear this. Not something Jerry wanted to hear. You hear his experiences all the time. None of them really planned it. No.

Just suddenly they were in the middle of this thing. That's right. And it comes with this knowing and they spend the rest of their life down the rabbit hole. Even you used to have meetings called rabbit hole meetings. where people could come on the meeting. And I used to run a group called Experiences Anonymous in Winnipeg. So you could come to the meeting and you could sit there for two years and never tell your story, like alcoholics. And then when somebody told your story, you'd say, I thought it was crazy, but I'm going to tell my story.

Now I want to tell mine. And that's what this sort of thing is, is that people, they're afraid to talk about it because it's just so weird. They think everybody's going to think they're crazy. Yep. And they need someone that gives them, like in your big UFO meetings, you'll see before they'll have an experience your meeting an hour before the lecture begin and all these people are in there and they're crying and they're talking because that's the first time they've ever been to tell their experiences. So when I had these rabbit hole meetings, I had 100 people on a rabbit hole meeting where they could come on Zoom, they could turn off their

camera, they could put their camera on, they could talk whenever they wanted, nobody knew who they were and they could sit there and listen to other people having these experiences. And that's the thing that they really missed, that they would go to a conference, not to the- lectures, they were going to this experience or thing where they could, their friends were and they could tell their stories and stuff. So that's where you see a different aspect of the UFO phenomenon. Oh, yeah. Everybody thinks you're talking about, you know, you're at a UFO conference, and you're talking

about flying saucers and showing photographs. And no, you're talking about this, what's reality? What's there going on? And is there a God? Almost all these conversations gravitate to that. Super deep. Yeah. Yeah.

It is interesting as well. Like something I've noticed with a lot of experiencers is that initially you'll hear the sort of bullet point version of the experience. And you've probably had this many times as well. but you know that as soon as you scratch the surface, you get into some weird stuff. And normally people are very reticent and reluctant to come forward with this information and say, you know, we'll start with, I saw a big black triangle, you know, it was hovering at a thousand feet. It took off.

And then you go, oh, interesting. Anything else happened maybe the day before or the day after? And they go, oh, yeah, I had an orb float through the wall and my cupboards were all open. And there was a poltergeist in my house or, you know, I swear I, I swear I. saw, you know, my, my dead relative walked through that. Like, you'll have these adjacent, super bizarre fringe and niche stories pop up. And rightfully so, like, you know, people are, but little by little, intaking the UFO stuff. And much like we're seeing with public, sort of the disclosure movement, is that we're being sort of drip-fed this nuts and bolts

militarized physical version of it, which I got to say, they've been doing. since the 50s. They haven't really changed their strategy on how they're giving us any of that. You would think that after 70, 80 years, we would start to also sort of drip feed the fact that, hey, there is a non-physical component to this that is probably much greater, much more impactful and much more present than the physical part. But for whatever reason, you know, it takes real research and sort of the research that you've been doing to come to that conclusion. And whatever that is, gets more and more and more confusing. It doesn't get more clear. Oh, it gets so weird. I mentioned that before we had come in here about James Tocke, where he ran the OSAP program,

the big government program. And he made the statement that Reed was going to move it from $22 million when they finished that. They were going to move to $100 to $150 million. Perry Reid, yeah. And he said, $150 million. And we weren't going to go chasing around the country looking after flittering UFOs. And he was basically saying it's the paranormal stuff. And the experiences have the same thing. They think it's not related.

So when you say to someone, oh, I had this dream, I just dreamed of aliens. I don't think I really had an abduction or whatever. And then you say, anything happened to your childhood? Oh, yeah. And they don't think it's related. Right. And you and I now, and I think you will feel the starting to know it's related because I started in 75.

And in 75, they were locked you up if, as I said, they would have locked you up if you said you had more than one UFO sighting. Because it was like you have random UFO sightings. They're from extraterrestrials. And you don't have repeated UFO sightings. There's no paranormal. There was none of that sort of stuff. It was a very simple world. And it's sort of evolved whether it's the intelligence doing it or whether it's the government dripping it.

Because I think the government is dripping the story as well. Gradually trying to acclimatize people because you had this RAND study in the 60s and said, unless you acclimatize the people, it's game over. You're going to have a lot of trouble. And they've probably done that over and over and over that study to determine where we're at. Yeah. But it is interesting that they take that approach. And, you know, because you look at when Stargate got declassified and sort of, I think it was like 2017 when all the papers came out. But like in 95 or 96, there was a submission.

Yeah, that this thing was real. And immediately they go into, ah, it never worked. It never worked. Like it's all blah. blah, hokey stuff. But like, meanwhile, we know that they're still obviously practicing this stuff. And it moved over to, you know, SAIC and it got privatized. And it's just interesting that they still take that approach. And that signals to me, and I don't know what that says to you, but to me, it definitely signals that A, either the truth empowers the public much more than

they're aware, much more than the government's comfortable with, or B, they don't know what they're dealing with. Like those are the two options, right? Yeah. I think they don't really know. They, they know, like Jim Semivano talks about this. Yes, we have bodies and crafts. Yes, there are legacy programs. I know where they are. I'm not going to identify where they are. But he said, I will make a bet. I will bet one year of my pension salary against anybody who has something different that they haven't got a clue. Because you've got bodies and crafts doesn't mean you know what you're dealing with. And I think that's the whole thing, which is the risk of now Trump coming forward is he's now he's asking like a million and one questions on Epstein files.

Once this comes forward, it's going to be a million and one questions on UFOs. And he's going to say, can we talk about something else here? What's all? And that's the thing. It opens up the door. They don't want to open up the door. So they do this gradual. I wrote about it first in in 89 when I talked about the Bob Lazar thing, which

that's what I believed it was. It was this deal where they wanted the story out, but they wanted to fall apart. To control it. Yeah. Yeah. And so if you want the story out, you give it to near, Times in Washington Post, you take them to the facilities, you show them the bodies, you show them the crafts, you show them the photographs. But if you don't want it, if you sort of want it out,

you give it to Bob Lazar, you give it to somebody who you know, passage material. Yeah, you know that it's going to fall apart as soon as that guy becomes public. They're going to realize the guy had a pirate flag and he had a car and he worked with prostitutes and all this sort of stuff. And the thing falls apart and that's what they want. So they put it out and they pull it back. And I really can't talk about it, but they're actually doing it again. They've done it. They did it with Tom DeLong. That's what Tom DeLong was about. And this new guy, he's a film guy, he's a film guy. You mean, are you referring to the Stars Academy? Yeah.

Well, this is the new guy. And I said, you knew the new Tom DeLong. And he's a film guy. And I sort of ruined it for him the first time. So I can't say too much. But basically, I was involved in this as well. And I'm going, I'm warning him. I'm going like, they've done this 100 times.

And watch out. Do you mean there's a new guy being approached by the government? Right now? And I was, I was part of it. Yeah. And we know who this is? I know who this is. I know who this is.

Would I know who this is if you said it? Okay. Yeah. So anyway, and I, I, I, I just gave him my opinion. It said, it's up to you. It's your money. You're spending your money.

You can do what you want. And it's sort of like, I'm in the game here. And I said, you're letting them in. You're the new Tom DeLong. They always used the same statement. Like Tom DeLong went in the skiff and he said, you guys can't get this out. I can get this out. And they said, maybe this will work.

And so they put him out. And then before that it was Bill Moore. Before that was Bob Emineger. Before that it was Walt Disney. And it's this whole thing is the idea is. Do you think Spielberg's part of that train too? Yeah. Well, the Holman Air Force,

is the prime story. Yeah. That's the story that... Well, let's go to the Hall of an Air Force base and the Bob Eminegger story because this is, for me, part of core UFO lore. Not only does it imply the CIA

in trying to control the narrative, but it also implies that we have some type of meeting or treaty, potentially, with some type of intelligence. And that's a highly classified subject. And if you listened to the last interview that James Sikatsky did, they asked him about communicating

and he said, I can't go there. Eric Walker, we asked him 30 years ago. What about communication? And he said, we promised not to tell. Wow. So it seems to indicate. And if you go back in 59, they were channeling an alien at the CIA. There's stories that they were flashing lights with the planes.

I mean, Dan Sherman was in contact with these things as well. You look at even David Grush being asked by Ross Coulthart about treaties and he kind of goes, he's kind of evasive on that answer. That seems to be a highly classified aspect. Are we actually dealing with? these beings. And it would make sense. If you were the government, why would you not try to contact this intelligence? If you know it's real, and they've known it's real since at least 1950. The Canadians were told, 1950, top secret memo. We were told by American officials,

not people on the street. He said by American officials, flying saucers exist. It's the most highly classified subject in the United States. It's of tremendous significance to the Americans. And there's a small group headed by Dr. Vannevar Bush who were trying to figure out the motorist operandi. And we were also told by American officials. that other things might be associated with the flying saucers such as mental phenomena. And that is the Wilbersmith documents. So they've known a lot of the pieces since then. And as I mentioned you before, that was in the memo was written in November.

And in December, it was put out, December just before Christmas. And six months later, Oman Slant, who was mentioned in the top secret memo. It said, we're putting this in front of Oman's Slant. He was the head of weapons for the Canadian military. for the Defense Research Board. He was the chairman. And six months later, they have the first M.K. Ultra a study or meeting happened right here in Montreal at McGill University.

And Oman-Slanent was on that meeting with the CIA and with the Europeans with Britain. And then, you know, years later, the CIA actually paid a million dollar damage to the Canadians who were involved, including the wife of an MP. So this. Yeah, you go directly from having, okay, you know, UFOs are real. They exist in the Wilbersmith memo, immediately following that up by saying, and other phenomena such as like mental phenomenon is also involved here. And then six months later in Canada as well, they're like, well, they're saying mental stuff is involved. They start doing MK Ultra stuff at McGill. You got, you know, doctors like a Dr. Penfield doing all sorts of like sketchy, you know, sort of operations on the brain and figuring out what's going on there. Even out West, didn't they? have some stuff. Saskatchewan, yeah. And Saskatchewan as well, like some deprivation tanks that they were bringing unwilling,

they weren't telling people what they were doing and locking them in a deprivation tank to study what was going on. So I was just to wonder, like, how did the Americans know that mental phenomena? Because Adamski doesn't appear until about two weeks after the detonation of the first hydrogen bomb. That's when he appears. Right. Just after they detonate the hydrogen bomb.

It's 52. November of 52. Okay. So this is two years before. So Adamski was the first one to talk to. them and said they were telepathic, but nobody was talking to aliens in 1950s, how did they know? And then you go and you get the other story

about the Roswell thing. It always was with the MJK, Majestic 12 document, that there's four dead aliens. And remember we talked to Walker about that. And he said, you guys are, you're speculating

and almost everything you believe is wrong. How do you know they died? How do you know they didn't get up and walk away? And now we know this story that one of them, they got up and walked away. They just left the craft and walked away and that the idea was at Roswell that the MJ12 document is not accurate. It's maybe part of the document that they changed. There was three dead aliens and one live alien because now you have all these people said there was a live alien and it was talking in their heads. And that was how they

would know there was mental phenomena. So if you've got an alien that's talking in people's heads and if you're in intelligence, you go, wow. There's a mental aspect of it. Oh my God. We could go to President and talk in his head and we could tell him we're going. God, and that's the whole thing, because I wrote a book on apports where you see that they're into all this kind of stuff because they did the apports. And there's actually a DIA document from 1973 that said, if we could master this phenomenon of deportation of moving things from one place to another, we could go to the Russians. We could go into the vault. We could get the documents, bring them to Washington, photocopy them, bring them back, put them in the vault, and they would never even know we were there. That's right.

So you can tell you sure, if you're going to work on this kind of stuff. Because it's got the other applications. And they absolutely did that, by the way, with, you know, grill flame, sun streak, Stargate, all of that. That's pretty much exactly what they were doing was intelligence gathering, you know, perceiving things at a distance remotely. All right. Let's dial it back to Holloman.

Halliman Air Force Base. Set it up here. What happens at this place? What happens afterwards? And what are the rumors? Okay. So I knew Bob. Menager, who was the co-producer on it.

There was Bob Aminager, who was the guy, he said, I was the guy who did all the work. I mean, did all the music. A flying saucers past present and future. UFO's past present future. Sorry, yeah. Which later becomes UFOs that has begun. That's right. And in UFOs begun, before I forget, it should mention that the top secret, or the

Charlie Red Star video that got me involved is shown on that. But it's like two seconds. You can't really. And Jacques Valet introduces this thing, this film, which is an amazing film. Anyway, so they did two versions. And then in 1983, according to Bob, there was a general who was Ronald Reagan's first agent in Hollywood, comes to him and said, they liked what you did in 75. They'd like you to do another documentary. And then he says, is Reagan behind this?

He's trying to figure out like, where's this coming from? And then they wanted Jacques Valet and they wanted Jail and Heineken Bolt. and in 83, the general had said, they were there and they said, okay, Heinex here, get all the film out of the vault, give him the bill, and the film. And then Shardell, who is a security manager, he said, sorry, General, I can't do that.

I need a requisition. I can't just pull it out. God damn, I'll have your ass. You get the film out and give it to Heinek. And it all fell apart because what they wanted was they wanted Heinech and Jacques Valet to be in the documentary and back it up. But Jacques Valet already knew what happened in 75,

and he knew that they would pull it at the last minute, and that would be in his career. So what was on this film? For those listening, who've never heard about Holloman, let's say. So 75, Bob goes to North and Air Force Base. He gets called in. He has no interest in UFOs.

He never had any, even after he was involved. He's no interest. He's a comedy guy. He's a comedy channel all the time. So he gets called in with his friend Sandler, and Sandler's the operator. He's the guy, CIA connections, FBI. He's got all these connections and stuff.

And as Bob Eminegger's wife said, he was, you know, he wasn't very smart, but he could, you could give him a stick and a piece of gum in the morning and he'd come back at night with a pile of money. And he was so really good at operation. So he, he got the meeting set up. They went to Northern Air Force Base and Paul Scharvel comes up and he says, you know, it's a Vietnam War and it's not going very well. And the American military isn't seen in a good light. We'd like you to do this documentary on working with dolphins, 3D holography. And they give them eight different projects that military is working on that the people say, that's pretty cool.

Distract people, boost morale. Yeah. Bush Morel. And so they said, and then he says, oh, and we also like you to do this documentary on UFOs. And we'd like you to hide it under the other documentaries. And Bob Abbottner going, UFOs? You're kidding me? UFOs? And he said, I just tell my wife, Margaret, quit reading those stupid things. The alien had my baby. His wife was crazy. And he said, and now you're telling me, this is real. And he said, well, what would I tell you? What would you say if I told you there was a landing of an alien craft at Hall of Innerfer Space in May of 1971? Now, you'll hear other stories where they put out 64.

64, Richard Doty put up 64. Linda Howe was telling the story. So then you have this, that's what happens in the UFO situation, is in order for them to distract you from the story, they don't have to kill you. All they do is put a second story in that has different details. And then suddenly it's like my version versus Linda How's version. Playing 3D chess over here. So I talked to Bob and he said, no, I'm telling you, I was, I guarantee you,

it may of, I guarantee you, it was 6 o'clock in the morning, there was four cameras. He's naming, as if he had read the whole. thing. No way. He knew exactly what's going on. So he, he tells the story where they tell them, you can go and he said, I walked in the Pentagon. They were dealing with Colonel Coleman, who was the head of Air Force spokesman for the Air Force, had flown after a UFO in World War II, had a background and stuff, and they went to Coleman, and they said, they walked right into the Pentagon. They didn't sign in. They just walked right into the Pentagon, and the Pentagon said, what are you guys doing

here. Every time you guys do this kind of stuff, the phone lines light up and we got to deal with all this crap and you guys are doing this all time. And then Sandler says, what are you talking about? You guys invited us here. And then they said, oh, okay. And then they go and Coleman says, first thing he says, I just want to warn you, if you see anything that's classified and you put it out, you could go to jail. And then they go. And then he tells him that. Then to go in the office, he says, come on in, boys. And he starts talking as if nothing that happened. So he was giving a thing. said, who do you want to talk to? So they went to the guy at Blue Book, had a Blue Book. They had, they were given the story of the channeling of the alien in 1959. They were dealing

with Art Lindahl. Art Landall was the first head of the Weird Desk at the CIA. So the weird desk is where they had analo the paranormal phenomena, the side stuff, the remote viewing, UFOs, all this kind of stuff. It's called the Weird Desk. So the first guy was Arthur Lundall, who was the, he was a photo intelligence guy. He was the guy that ran the National Photographic Interpretation Center in Washington. That's where they analyzed the U2, the SR 71 on all the spy photographs. So he was the guy in 62 during the Kennedy administration that went in when they were identifying missiles in Cuba. And it was, our, Lundahl was saying, here's a missile launcher, here's a missile. And identifying to the president, well, that's his name. And they channeled an alien at the Pentagon, which we can

do later. But they, and they get their story. So they start gathering this stuff together for this documentary. And then he says to Lundal, he says, can you go on camera? And, uh, tell the story about the channeling at this CIA and he said, no, I can't. And Bob says, well, we need someone tell the story. I'm on duty. I can't. And so they brought in Robert Friend. And if you actually look at the documentary, Robert Friend actually tells the actual story that he gets called in two days later. And they say, you got to come and see this. And they go through the whole thing about the channeling and stuff like that. But I'll leave that for later. But anyway, so they're back to Bob. So Bob's there and he starts gathering all this material and he goes to see

Weinbrenner and Weinbrenner saying, you know, they asked him, what's the deal? What's the deal? What's the film at Hollen Matter for Space? Is that actually real? And then Weinbrenner gets up with the chalkboard and he starts drawing this, this Russian Meg and he says, what's the deal? The Russians get to know everything. We have to release all our stuff.

And he's going, maybe misunderstood my question. Maybe he didn't understand what I was trying to ask him. And then he pulls this book off the shelf in his J. Alan Heenick book. And he opens it up and it's signed by J.L. and Heenick to him. And then he realizes, oh, this is, he's. He's, his room is tapped. He's not supposed to play the, he's playing the game and stuff like that.

So they talk to all these guys and they put the documentary together and they get to Holoman Air Force Base film. Now, there's all this dispute whether Bob saw the film. He said he never saw the film. Sander confirms that he actually saw the film. And then what happened is at the very end, they have all this material on different things like to launch at Vanderburt. And let's, can we, can we go into what was on that film, what they saw?

So basically it's 6 o'clock in the morning at Holland Air Force Base. A bunch of generals have been flown in from Washington for this event. It's completely known as to what's going to happen. It's all planned. And they're all sitting there. And so when I asked Bob, you mentioned the Stephen Spielberg. So I said, you know, as he was explaining this whole thing, the three UFOs come in. The two UFOs break off.

The other one lands. These beings, the door opens up. These beings come out. Everybody's waiting for them and they shake hands. And then they put this UFO in a hangar. And Bob later goes to the hangar with this guy and they break the lock off and they look in hangar and of course there's nothing there and stuff like that. And so they that's the basic premise of what's on the on the yeah, there's this sort of like almost like it's a, it drops like

a feather. Yeah. It was described as. The other two break off. It drops a feather. The door opens. There's no seam kind of and these beings come out, three beings and being incredibly tall wearing some garment on their head, like some Egyptian garb. I'll tell that part of the story later because that happened later. So anyway, so they describe the beings anyway. They come out. And so I said to Bob, I said, Bob, it's kind of weird. You know, if it weren't for the location, the time of day, this sounds exactly the close encounters with third kind. And I said, he said, I didn't tell you. I said, no, you didn't tell you. I gave a copy of Spielberg in 1975. I said, no, you didn't tell me that. So Close Encounters comes out in 77. And it's the story of close encounters. That's where

Stilberg got that thing. Wait, what? Yeah. Gave him a copy of what? of his documentary, of the documentary, and he wanted to see it. And then he said, I told you, I told you, Annie Spielberg worked for us. Annie Spielberg was a line producer for us. And I said, oh, yeah, I forgot that. And they had done a bunch of documentaries on life after death and hypnosis. And Spielberg was involved. His sister was involved.

And then he says, he says to me, he says, and after it was over, after close encounters came out, Stephen Spielberg's mother came to me and she said, Steven? She says, Bob, I've seen your version of landing, and I've seen Steven's version and the landing, and I like Stevens version better. She said that. She said, yes, she said. And so years later, so this whole thing, it sort of confirmed that this was this real.

And so then years later, I got a email from Michael Luckman. He wrote the first book on UFOs and music. Sure. He was a producer out of New York City. And he said, they hoaxed the whole thing. I said, what do you mean the hoaxed the whole thing? And he sent me this photograph. And he said, you asked Bob to explain this.

he shows the photograph and the beings that came out, they had this sort of a thing tied around their head, they had this antenna, they had a staff, they had the long nose and stuff, and I look at it, and it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a statue in a British museum. And I'm going, right, it's the same thing. That's it.

If you look at the photograph, I sent you the photograph. Whoa. I sent you the photograph. But if you look at the photograph in the book and the photograph, identical. So I went, oh, holy cow. He said, they fake the whole thing. They fake the whole thing.

And I said, oh, okay, I'll ask Bob. I went to Bob, I said, Bob, this is kind of weird here. You take a look at this. Like, what do you say to this? He's making this accusation. And it does look pretty close, Bob. And then he says, well, I'll talk. He's no interest.

He said, oh, okay, I'll talk to Alan. It's because Alan's the manipulator guy. So he goes to Alan and this email comes back. We'll sue them, man. We'll sue them. Just get ready. We're going to sue these guys. Who does these hell is these things people think they are?

And then this guy died of a stroke. So the story sort of died. But the one in that when you, see it. So what happened is when the film came out, they pulled the film back. So Bob says, Coleman says to them, he says, we can't, we can't let the film. It's Vietnam War, time isn't right, we got to pull the film, which is what they did to Disney. Disney did a documentary. Disney did a documentary. The same thing. He was going to get a bunch of film and stuff, and they pulled all that from him at the last minute as well. And Disney did it, it was never

released, but Disney did a documentary. So they had to pull it and he said, I told you the story, these two heavy set people, they're in this little tiny Datsin and they got to drive from California back to the Pentagon to deliver this film. And then there was eight seconds. So if you've seen the UFO's past, present future, it says, this may have happened in the past or it may happen in the future. And they're forced to storyboard the thing.

So they're sort of telling the story and they're sort of doing this stuff. And all of a sudden you see this UFO coming over the mountain and it's coming in. And the rumor gets going. And I proposed this rumor. I pushed it as well that there's eight seconds of the actual film that they had allowed it to be put in there.

So I went to Bob and I said, Bob, there's eight seconds of film in that documentary. And he said, well, yeah. And I said, well, why is that in there? Why did it give you the thing? He said, well, it doesn't show anything. And I said, well, it didn't show anything, but it still doesn't make sense. It gave you this thing.

And the dispute went back and forth. And he said, you know, and then suddenly some guy contacts, I hear that guy's got a high-deaf vision, a version of the documentary. And he said that it was an F4. And I look at it. And it is an F4. F4. It looks like an F4 coming in over the mountain. But the thing is, it doesn't agree with the story.

And so Bob was telling the truth. So it didn't agree with the story because the story was there was three UFOs came in and then only one landed. This is only one UFO coming in, which is not the same story. And you can see it's an F4. And then you see this being that is out of a British museum as in the way he said, I said, what happened? He said, okay, Shardle described it.

Because Shardle saw the film. Shardle described it to my storyboard guy, and my storyboard guy was describing the being. So he was describing this being, but he was describing this being out of the, out of the British, British Museum, and they put it in the book and they put it in the documentary and stuff like that. And basically what it was was that the instead of, I thought they'd given, the government had given them eight seconds of legitimate film, they'd given them eight seconds of garbage, and they'd have given them a phony, uh, alien picture to put in there. And none of that was true. That was all this fake that Eminegger had put this stuff out. So the, the picture that's in the

The book is a confabulation. Statue, identical statue in the British Museum. And the other is an F4. If you see the high definition version, it is a plane. So we have nothing. And that's what they want. So that's the thing they put it out, they pull it back. But this video did exist.

It still does exist. And Giel and Heineck went after it. Not Jailen Heinek. Well, I guess he was looking at for it as well. But the people that were really looking at was the Nids people. Yeah. So what Nids had was Bob Bigelow had. He had a lot of money.

What do you do if you do if you got a lot of money? You pull in the best people can. Get green, have put off, at the top of all the categories and you try to figure it out. So they were working, and that's where the Wilson Davis League came from. The Wilson Davis notes was they were looking at this thing and saying they knew that the meeting had taken place. And they were trying to, between Greer and the Admiral. And did this meeting actually take place? So that's why they set up the meeting between Eric Davis and the general to get all the details.

To get some more information. And it becomes the Wilson, but they're. They were working on black triangles. They were working on Caldenedal Miss Base, and they were working on Holman Airface Base. Yeah. So because I knew Bob Emineger very well, and they interviewed him piles of times, Hal put off, and Eric Davis were coming to me and trying to get material, what did Bob tell you?

What did he tell you about this part of the thing? Sure. And then the story was that when they showed the documentary, Christopher Dodd, Senator Christopher Dodd, had seen the documentary, and he was getting under pressure from his constituents, and he filed on FOIA to get the Haldman Air Force Space film. and he was told it was in a Navy sink. And I've never figured out what a Navy sink is. And Hal actually used that expression as well.

But they're all trying to figure this thing out. And so one of the parts of the story that people don't know, it's sort of leaking out now, is that Eric Davis, who's the sharpest knife in the drawer and has worked diligently inside his sort of little classified world to find higher levels and what those people know and stuff like that, he calls me one time and he says, hey, you got Jimmy Carter's phone number?

And I go, no, I got, well, I have a Jimmy Carter's phone number. A Canadian man, whatever. Jimmy Carter's front of her. And I said, what do you want Jimmy Carter's phone number for? He said, well, I just talked to Ford and I talked to Bush. And there's this rumored story when Carter was in, there was an NPR guy who was doing a documentary and I found his files in Washington at the National Security Archives. And it talked about this documentary and I talked about this Secret Service guy who claimed

that he had been in the Carter briefing and that he was shown a 15-minute color film. So this is the whole deal. Is this the Holman film? So they wanted to talk to Carter, but nobody could get a hold. The reason he got a hold of Ford and Bush was because all three of them, Davis and these two presidents, are members of the former intelligence officers association. So they, you know, talk to each other and they have phone numbers and stuff like that. So he had their phone numbers. So he told me back this 20 years ago and now he's made public fact he talked to Bush.

And the Bush had confirmed, yes, he had seen the film. Yeah. But he didn't see it as, you didn't see it in his presidential. intelligence briefing, President Elected Intelligence briefing. He had seen it as he saw it as CIA director and that the guy that was giving him the briefing didn't realize he hadn't been briefed on it.

And that when he was puzzled, he said, what hell are he talking about? And then the guy suddenly realized, oh, he's never been briefed. He's never been briefed on this. And so he told him the story. And so they were asking, a lot of skeptics like Oberg and Phil Klass and people were putting out of a thing. It was a flame out of an A-12. It was this.

It was all these explanations as to what happened at Hall of Matter First Base. And so that's what Davis was asking Bush. He said, was it a psychological operation? No. Was it a training film? No. Was it a flame out of an 812? No, was it this. Was it that? And then he said, it was real. It was the real deal. And it was massive security. That's what he told Eric Davis. So Eric Davis has sort of told that story about Bush being told. And then the other part of the story he hasn't sort of told yet is that he also talked to Ford. And that Ford had said, yes, he saw the film as, as when he was briefed as president. He saw the, the whatever film, the Holman Air Force Base film, and during his briefing. And then

Eric Davis asked him, well, when was the briefing? And he said, I'm never going to tell you where the briefing was. Don't even go there. And so this is the thing. They confirmed. That's why you always hear, if you hear Hal put off for Eric Davis talk, they say, we have confirmed the Hallman Air Force Base film. The film actually exists. But the most important part, and you may not know this story. So I'm talking to Bob one time, and I said, okay, so they had to send a film back. And he told me the whole I was talking about the guys in the car and stuff like that. So I say to him, Bob, you said you got all sorts of stuff.

You got access. Yeah, there was no cover up. They let us see whatever we want. We had film from NASA. They gave us all sorts of stuff. I said, so he sent the Holman film back. Remember that film you were talking about, about the Vanenberg where they shoot the missile up and the UFOs take it out?

Bob Jacobs. I said, yeah, he said, I remember that. I said, did you give that film back? Because he had to analyze by the guy that analyzed the Robertson panel, UFOs back in the 1950s. the top analysts. He said it's one in a million. One in a million,

this ain't a UFO. And so I said, you give that film back? And he goes, no, I don't think so. I said, he didn't give it back. And he said,

no, I think Alan's got it. I'll check. So he cuts back to me. He says, yeah, animals got it. I said, Alan's got this film? He said, yeah, it's top secret. It's top secret.

It has quitting all his name on the cover of the canister. And so at that time, I was working with Angela Joyner. Angela Joyner broke the Stevensfield, Texas story. and got fired and never worked again. Wow.

Just destroyed her life. Absolutely destroyed her life. Anyway, so I'm working with her on a presidential book, which we never did finish off, but we were working on it. I was down in Texas. And so then I says, Angela, they got the film. Angela, we get the film. We're famous, man.

This is the, this is the, this is the, this is the smoking gun. Everybody's been talking about this film where they take this missile out, where these UFOs. And Bob talked about it. He said the missile was going, and these little, like little white moons were going around it. Right. Around this craft and just, just, and zapping it.

And zapping it. And I said, we got the films. Samuers got the film. And so she, she was pretty, she was kind of girl that you went in a bar, you tried to buy her a drink. And she was last cut in the style, Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders. Right. So Bob kind of like, you know, like women and he was, so he, Angela was talking to

him and he makes the arrangement for Angela to see this film. But the problem is that Angela has to go by herself. I can't go. It's Oregon, Sanders got the vault in Oregon. So she has to go by herself. And she's, you know, I don't know if I want to go, you know, by myself to see Sandler at his house and stuff like that. And so she doesn't know what to do. So then she's, she's in contact because everybody's covering the Stevensville story.

So James Fox is covering the Stevensville story. And she says, James, we got this film. And everyone Sanders got the film. And James goes, what? What's this? You got film. So then James contacts him. So I find the film.

And I'm saying, Dad. Would you tell James, we had this thing to ourselves? Like, what did you tell James Fox for? So James Foxx? And he goes and deals with Sandler. to Sandler and Sandler says yeah I got the film and he says uh can I see it I want to put it in my documentary and he said no no you're gonna need some money and he said well how much he said $25,000 he said okay hang on and so I don't know how long it took a month or whatever

gathers the $25,000 goes back to Sandler and he says okay I got to $25,000 I want to use it in my film and he says no I talked to my lawyer my lawyer says Alan you're you're pretty well off you don't need $25,000 bucks this is going to ruin your life do not do not do not do not for $25,000. You're never going to hear at the end of it. And so it's in and he's going, oh, okay. So it's in Fox. And this is in the process now. It should have happened by now, but he goes to Congress. And he tells Congress, all the congressional hearings and stuff. He says, there's this film. It's a top secret film. Ellen Sanders got this film in his vault. And then the question comes down, Ellen Sanders got a classified film. So then the contact

subpoena. They then go back. This is a whole deal. They're trying to get it. And so the deal that Fox, when I heard one interview he did, he said he made the deal with Congress. that if they gave him a, he helped him get the film, if they gave him a copy of the, of the, uh, of the film. And I figured, well, I should get a copy. I'm not going to find the thing. So this is the deal that's going on right now. No way.

Congress knows about this film. Whoa. And Sandler's in a position where he has to give it up because it's classified material. He'll get arrested. Yeah. Look, okay. This is, uh, this is, that's pretty breaking. Um, man.

I mean, I will, they should pay him, first of all. They should just give the man some money. I'd be willing to throw up some cash as well. I'll go in with whoever wants to go in with me on this. Talk to James Fox and see whether, just to see where it stands. All of the- Because this is going back at least six months when I last heard James talk about. Wow.

So when James was visiting, when James was in a skiff, essentially, because I had heard, he'd said on this podcast, that he met with Congress right after, right after the congressional hearing, that came up, I guess. I guess them chasing that thing might have. I'm not sure. I just know that he had made contact with and made this deal with Congress to try to shake this film loose. And it's a film that everybody knows. Of course.

Of course. Pretty clear, according to Bob. Oh, yeah. According to Bob, this is like crystal clear. And that was a film that he saw. He always claimed he didn't see the Holman film. But he did claim he's seen this, this UFO being taken down by me. Do you know who else claims to have seen it?

I think, I think, um... Chris Bledso. Oh, because I know that Alizando claims to have seen it, too. Yeah, Chris Bledso told me, um, I was at, asking him about Tim Taylor and his, just sort of his interactions with him and what that was like, like, you know, what did he show you? Because apparently he showed up to his house and gave him a classified briefing sort of Your Eyes Only for the Blood So's. And I think Chris and his wife, or maybe even just Chris. And then, you know, Chris even caught sort of forwarding some of it. And then they

caught him through his email being like, hey, hey, we said, your eyes only. And I said, you know, what did he show you in that briefing? He's like, oh, photos and videos. I was like videos. I'm like, did he show you, you know, this video of the, you know, the rocket being taken out? And he goes, yeah. And I go, really? And he goes, yeah, he showed me that. And I go, what else? And then he goes, can't say anymore.

There is a famous video out there of one of these UFOs or object or whatever it is, taken down one of these rockets that they were shooting up. I've seen it. Who showed this to you? Tyler did. Following one such test launch, Lieutenant Jacob, was unexpectedly told to report to the office of Major Florence Mansman. On the screen was the film we had shot.

The nose going to separate. The chaff flew out in front of it. We saw this as obviously reflections of light rippling like that. Then we saw the dummy warhead flying along. It's going between 6,000 and 8,000 miles an hour at that point, and it's on the fringe of space. And suddenly, into that frame, an object flew in chasing the chaff, the warhead, and so on at the same speed. And in polar orbit, it fired a beam of light at the warhead.

The beam of light struck that. The object flew up, shot another beam of light at the dummy of warhead, went around, shot another beam of light at it, went down, shot a beam of light, and then flew out the same way to come in, at which time, the dummy warhead fell out of the frame. The lights came on, and Major Mansman said to me, were you guys screwing around up there? And I said, no, sir.

And he said, what was that? And I said, it looks like we got a UFO. And he said, Lieutenant Jacobs, you are never to speak of this again. It never happened. Yeah, quite a few. Well, I saw those things I don't want to talk about. So, I don't know, maybe they showed him the Holloman thing, too. Yeah, floating around.

Yeah, I got some good stories about Tim Taylor and Chris as well. Because I was involved with Chris before he was famous. I was 2012. I was involved with him. Wow. And his interaction happened in 2008. So that was right around the time. That was after move on.

2007, yeah. 2007, right, right before the big housing. crash, everything else. Okay, we can get into that. I think that's really interesting. Anything else on the Holloman stuff you want to go over? Is that pretty much cover it? That pretty much covers the...

So we know that the beings don't look like these sort of long-nosed Egyptian things. Exactly. And we know that that footage used in that documentary is also just bunk. Yes, you can, if you're editing you this, I sent you the photo. You can actually put the photograph and then take the photograph out of the book. Yeah. And sort of compare them to them to. You just go like, wow.

That's what I said. Like, I'd always believe Bob and I'm thinking, maybe he was pulling my leg the whole time. Do you know what, though? I mean, because also, you know, you never hear about these type of beings, right? You always hear about, especially in around the military, the gray, the tall whites is another one of them. So I'd imagine they were like probably something, yeah,

it would probably have to be one of those two. There was one more story. I better do it before I forget. There's a story that, there's always a story about, because they do the presidents, about the president's brief, do they know and stuff. So there was a story, Linda Howell tells a story. So Linda Howe and Bob used to have a huge house in Hollywood. And so she goes there with Larry Bryant, I think. And Bob starts showing her stuff.

Emanager. Emanager's house. Okay. So they're there and he shows her a document from Richard Nixon and says it had to do with the documentary. And it said, thank you for your cooperation on the project. we worked on. So Linda's been telling the story numerous times and, uh, you know, I asked Bob about it and he said, well, no, I had this letter and he sent me this Nixon letter, which was a letter letter that Nixon sent out when he first became president saying, have you got any friends

that are, you know, worthy to work on my president, you know, give me references and stuff I got. And then Linda said, no, that's not the document I saw. And so we had one incident at Eureka Springs where she, Lynn says, come, you want to go for dinner? We're going with Bob and his wife. And we're I'm going to get it out of them. And I go, okay. So we go there. And I'm with Angela Joyner, and we're sitting there.

And Linda can be ruthless. I mean, she's just going after her. And I'm going, and Bob's got his head down. It's not saying anything. His wife's got her head down. No comment, no denials. Nothing just sitting there.

All sheepishly looking is just throwing down. And she's just going, come on, Bob. Admit it, Bob. You show me that document. It's time that you open up and admit it. And she's going on. And then I says, I says to, Angela, I said, okay, we're gone.

I'll leave you, Bob, to, to Linda. Linda didn't talk to me for two years. She thought I was, I was, I was thinking that she was making fun of Bob. And I was, I was laughing because she was, she was not giving up. She was him up. She was, she was going and she was trying to get this. And she thought I was laughing at her. I said, no, I didn't do it that. And so now we're friends again, but it was, uh, this letter that was there. And then I found he had died. I thought, I got an email from him. And I go, oh, I should talk to him. And I went and he, and then didn't answer. And then I'm going, this is weird. And then I checked and sure if he died. And his wife died first. And then he died. And

I'm going, but I got an email from this guy. It was just so weird. And then I knew he had a daughter. He had one daughter lived in LA. He always complained that she had problems with their checks or with her credit cards and all this stuff. And then I'm thinking, oh, I got to get his files because they're not going to know. You're going to get the files and you're going to get a document like when I, you know, Staten Freeman's files.

I was the first guy to fat Staten Freeman's files because everybody keeps stuff secret. They got stuff that stuff. Oh, yeah. And they make agreements with people. And then when you get their files, there's the document. There's all that stuff. And so I went and I was trying to find the files. I still can't find his files.

Well, Bob Emmerger's files are maybe around somewhere and they may have this letter from Richard Nixon. And it was signed by Richard Nixon and Angela and Linda has a photographic memory. Oh, what a document. That would be to uncover. So that was the weird thing. But Chris was another one where I got involved almost the beginning. I didn't know who he was. Chris Blatso.

Yeah. I got involved. There was an event. I don't know if you know what it was called, the gathering. And this guy out of Larry out of Pennsylvania had a fair bit of money. And he was sort of like Bigel. He was helping researchers and stuff like that. He had a big event where he'd bring in all these researchers.

I think there's 50 researchers and their wives into Philadelphia. And then he brought us family in. And then it was all these questions. So all these experts are answering these questions in front of families. So does say his family. See, I'm not. And that's like all these researchers here, experts and stuff like that. And so we were in there.

And that's when I first met him, we were on a bus coming in from the airport. and his wife, Vaughn was there, and she's, Chris, all these people gathered around Chris and they're all asking them questions. I'm going, who is this guy? And they're all just interested. And then I was talking to his wife. She's, well, this is Chris's story. I'm not really interested.

This is Chris's a story. Here's my daughter. And his daughter's singing and dancing. And she's talking about her daughter all the time. So we say, I'm going with his wife the whole weekend. Yvonne's a sweetheart. Yeah. And we just walked around with his wife and talk stories.

And then so when I was doing the citizen's hearing in 2013. And I was lecturing down in Florida. So then I realized that Chris's house is only like five miles off the interstate. And I go, hey, Chris, I'm going right past your place. Can I stop in and see you? And he says, yeah, sure. So I wanted to see this burning tree, this whole idea that Warner Brothers had a documentary they wanted to do. And they wanted to sign and give us a sign.

And then the night before they were going to call it off, suddenly the tree starts to burn. And then the Chad and Carrie Hughes, the two scriptwriters for Warner Brothers say, That's what we're waiting for. They were going to do the movie. And then they were going to do the movie. And then it got blocked by Chris keeping saying, we won't let you have the end of the movie. And they say, no, and you can't do that, Chris.

You can't have the end of the movie. We control the end of the movie. And Tom DeLong went to put reptilians in the end of his version of Chris, Chris Blatzel story. And Chris kept saying, no, that's not the story. The story is the message from the lady. You're not going to change the story. And Hollywood just saying, no, no, that's not going to sell.

And so I wanted to see the tree. So I'm taking the pictures of the burning tree and the the circle that was around it. And I actually see the thing where the thing goes, things in the bush. And he's got his hand against his oak tree. And the oak tree is completely died. When he saw the being that came through the bush,

after the event happened when he got home, he was leaning against his tree. And then he said to the being, okay, you got me. And then the being says, we mean no harm. And then boom, his dog comes and the being disappears. And the dog goes racing after this being.

So I saw the tree and I saw the burning tree and stuff. So I got it. And then the first paranormal event happened. And Chris doesn't have a book, but he was limited by a number of words. Plus we had a bit of a disagreement about what happened in this event. So we're sitting there and his wife. This is about the dog. Yeah, this is the dog story.

So his wife had gone all four of the kids were out of the house getting haircuts and stuff. We were by ourselves. And he's got three dogs. He's got the big, Nellie, which is a big black lab. He had this medium-sized, Heinz 57 type dog. And then his little trua. So he's three dogs, big, small. middle. And we're sitting there and playing on Facebook and he's telling me the story where

he, I was asking about owls. Like I said, hey, you ever any owl experiences? He said, yeah, that was when I were sitting right on top of the antenna. And what the story was, he wasn't talking to his family, but he was talking to all these CB guys driving around on trucks. But he had done house family for a year because they said, you know how to talk to kids about this. I don't want to hear about it. And he was like, he didn't, and nobody talked to. So he's talking to these truckers and he was sitting in this chair. And there was a, he got up to go to the front door for something and the lightning hit the, hit the tower and came down right where the chair was. He would have been dead if he had stayed in the chair. And I said, oh, that was the aliens.

They were warning you. That's why they all was on top of the towers to get away from that chair. They wanted you to get back. And that's when he started to get back in. They burnt the back half of the house down. The back half of the house was burned down. And that's when he started to get back into UFOs. But so I looked at the tree and we're sitting there and I'm ready to go to Florida. And I say, Chris, I think it's about time to go. And now I said, Chris is, hey, what are you guy's doing back in the room. And I look at it. Three dogs are standing there looking at us, you know, he said, how'd you get back in the house? And then I didn't mean anything to me. And so he goes, and the front door is wide open. And he puts him outside. He says, weird, go outside. Get outside.

Put some outside. And then I take my bag and I say, well, I see you, Chris, I'm going to, I'll drop back on my way on my back. He said, great, because he's an absolutely beautiful guy, you know, wonderful host and stuff. And his family is all very receptive and all talk to me and stuff like that. Yeah, they had me over too. Same deal. So I, so I got in the car and I took off and I get to Florida. And then he says, I opened the email and there's an email from Chris. He said, you know what? Happened twice more after you left. You left and then I was sitting in the living room

and the dogs are back in the house. And I went and the front door was wide open. And then I put them back outside again. I went to the bathroom. I came out of the bathroom. Dogs are back in the house again. And I go, whatever, you left the door open. So yeah, doesn't mean nothing to me.

So this is my interpretation of the story. So anyway, I sloughed off. So I'm going back, come back, head back, my rent-car back to Washington. I'm coming back. I stopped. I said, I want to look at the tree. again and took some more photographs of the tree.

And then we're standing on this back patio. Remember this concrete patio in the back there? We're standing there. And Nelly's right behind us. Remember he turned around and said, what are you chewing on? She had this gourd. And he said, oh, you've chewed it already. And she's chewing on this gourd.

She's maybe six, seven feet away from us. And so then he says, you want to go in the house? I said, yeah, okay. So we go. And you know how dog always wants to get in the house before you? So we started going. Chris is here. I'm here.

And the dog comes on my left-hand side. I got these light colored blue jeans on. And we start going for the door and the dog runs by me. And all I hear is Chris saying, Nelly, what happened to you? And I look, those blood spouting everywhere. Shooting up like a hidden artery all over the walls.

And he's, I think I actually have the original pictures of this too, which is interesting because I remember talking to Chris about this. And this is a few years ago and he goes, you got to talk to Grant Cameron about this because he was there. And then those are your jeans? That's my jeans. And that's where the story comes into me.

Yeah, January 12th, 2007 at 9.20 a.m. So if a dog runs by you, how long does it take your half second? Take a look at the jeans. I feel like I'd been standing there for 10 minutes. Oh, yeah. I'm shooting blood all over my pants. And so Chris was calling. He says, he says, Chris, Chris, bring me a knife.

I've got to cut off the collar. And then Nellie just quickly, she's lying down. She's very calm. She's just lying there. And the blood's all over the place. And the girlfriend's cleaning the blood off the floor and off the walls. And I could see the blood coming down the stairs. And I'm thinking, I go,

this is weird. When the door was being left open, it wasn't weird, but I was, this is weird. I go run into the car and I get my camera and I come back and I started photographing where the blood, he's got the rag on top of the dog's head, the rag's all full of blood. And then they were talking and I said, when he should take a vet. And then I'm thinking, well, we're talking about it would be dead before I get the vet. It's losing so much blood. Because he puts, he puts his hand on and then Chris, his son comes out. So Chris had an experience, I don't know if he told you about. Yeah, Chris Sr. No, well, Chris Sr. or told this story about him crawling under the trees to go to this thing.

And it had this force field around it. He couldn't get close enough to the craft. And he had his gun. And he was going, he was tired of this. And he was going close to the craft. And then he backed off and he went away and he said, I'm going back. And he crawled under these trees again towards the craft. It was in this clarion.

And he got a certain point. He couldn't get any farther. The force field was there. And then he backed up and he came. He's coming back onto his property. There's a fence, a wire fence. And as he's crawled down and as he's got this gun and he looked at. up and the white beings with the red eyes, there was two of them standing here looking at him.

And he said he was never so embarrassed in his life. And that was it. He never touched a gun after that. So he gave all his guns to Chris, to Chris Jr. And he had all this. And so Chris Jr. comes out of him, Dan Laden or something. Comes right now of those with this. Send me on my rifle. It's like, that, you know, whatever, what, that raccoon. And I said, Chris, there's no raccoon. I said, we were standing right here. And then I'm going to get that dog. I'm going to shoot him. And he's got this. And he's got this. gun and he's all really wound up and I said well we're right here if it'd have been a dog or uh you know anything pork a pawn we would hurt it right behind us it never happened so then me and chris are

looking around where the blood started we can see it started off the edge of the patio there's a little two drops of blood and then it came and then my interpretation was when it when it came by me the whole thing was me it was like you weren't impressed you weren't impressed because i i you weren't impressed with the dogs being let out of the house watch this and so it was like it was meant for me me because and I argued with Chris about this I said you know what happened Chris? He said no I think it was this shadow people

I said shadow people why about the shadow people cut the dog? And he said well they're evil and I said well I did another evil. He said well they're dark because they're dark doesn't mean they're evil and I said you know what I think happened Chris? I said never letting dogs out of the house when I was there and I was impressed so they said you want to see this watch this

because you see my pants. There was no blood on anybody else to me. It was just all over my pants and it was they wanted this in the movie because it's like the old idea of a movie you need good and bad you need up and down in a movie this comes back to the wow theory again yeah if you if you have like God

and with this popcorn in a movie and it's like I love you I love you I love you too I love you and God yells I go watch next door and watch Star Wars I want to see some drama you want the off and down you always need the up and down so I said they want this in the movie

they want this and he said no I don't think so no I don't think so I said yeah I think they want this story they want the burning tree they're doing all this crazy stuff where everybody's going to go, I can't believe this happened. I can't believe this happened. And then, but two weeks later, he phones me up.

He says, he's still got those photos? Warner Brothers would like this photograph. I told you. Before jumping there, like, he gets the blood to stop? Yeah, he gets the blood to stop. He puts his hand on it. He pulls his hand up with this rag. And then Nellie just gets up and she just goes racing around the house.

So I figured, oh, wow, what's going to happen next? I got my camera and I chase after Nellie. She goes around the house to the front door. She barks one time at the house. front door and then goes racing off into the next door neighbor's yard barking as if she's chasing something and i thought well that's kind of weird but there was nothing really happened and and that that when chris said he said that there was a wound but we didn't check the wound when i was there he's him and his father checked the wound that night and they couldn't find a wound on on that's what he told me yeah yeah

you couldn't find a wound on neck so that he said at that point he could heal people and he was able to heal people and then comes a really bizarre stuff so we're i only meet him a few times and he can't to me because I'm in Canada, he can't do stuff by email and stuff like that. So, I mean, an experiential conference in Maine. So he's there. And Chris is like some of my friends, they don't go to the lectures. They just sit in the hallway and talk to people. So Chris is in the hallway talking to people. This woman comes up to her and there's twins. These women are twins. They're in their 70s. Two women. The one woman says, my sister here, she had a stroke. She can't hear. She's totally deaf. Can you heal her? And Chris is standing in front of the hotel.

Suddenly his cell phone was Tim Taylor. Tim Taylor says, if you're in front of a hotel and someone needs a healing, go ahead and do it. No way. Yeah. So he says, I don't know. Wait, wait a second. Hold on a second. It gets weird.

This is so, this is so strange. So he's standing in front of the hotel. He has these twins come up. She says, my sister had a stroke, she can't hear. And in that minute, he gets a text from Tim Taylor. And this is, he's alone here with, with these women. Anybody else? Well, there may have been other people, but not in the conversation.

And he's saying Tim Taylor texted him. Well, he showed me the text. He showed you the text. He showed me the text. Look, Tim Taylor and go, and I'm thinking, what's Tim psychic? Like, what's going on? Whoa. Tim's this weird guy, but.

Yeah. So then he tells me the story, and he puts his hands on her ears. And he says, in the name of Jesus, like everybody said, name of Jesus, I heal you or whatever. And this woman goes into my lecture, and she comes out of a lecture, and she says, I can hear. I can hear everything said, I can hear. And I said, that's pretty cool, Chris. So then these two girls, one is Mike Collins' former girlfriend. And there's a woman out of New Jersey who came to me after this very very very.

took place. So they're going to ask Chris for a healing. So at lunchtime, all the people from the conference go to this restaurant across the street. So I'm with them and these two girls are sitting beside Chris and I realize they're going to ask for this healing. So there's me and Mike might have still been there. Mike Clown may have still been there, but I'm not sure. But anyway, I said, I figured it's a private moment. They want to do this. So I said, okay, Chris, I'm going back to the lectures. I'll catch you later. See you girls. And I took off. This girl comes back and she's distraught. She's like, holy, can you can't believe what happened? And I talked to her maybe four or five days ago again.

And I said, can you repeat this story what happened in the restaurant? She said, it was like a third person who was in the conversation. She says, it was like Tim Taylor, Tim Taylor, Tim Taylor, this. And she's going. And she said, I looked at the, I couldn't, I read the messages or whatever. And I said, that is the story I heard. And then the part of the story that you had to ask Chris that they brought up. And this was the fact that the phone was a transmitter phone, that he had been given this

phone. I know if it's true. He'd been given this phone. It was a transmitter phone. Because you remember that it was a transmitter phone. It was, it was, everything that he did was being recorded by somebody. Right. And, and I don't know that part of the story is true. He might have been given that phone by Tim Taylor. As soon as I heard that story, I went, that's how Tim Taylor did. He isn't psychic at all. He's just tapping his phone. And that's what Chris had said. I remember the story when Tim Taylor comes and he said, you guys have ruined my life. What are you doing on my property? My family won't talk to me. They're trying to take my kids away from me. You've ruined my life. What are you doing here in the Tim Taylor system? Well, Chris, it appears

they like you. They're all around you, Chris. They don't like us. They don't talk to us. So we're here to find out what are they telling you. And what's the best way to engage a somebody is to follow what they're doing. And that's what happened when I met Tim Taylor. So

just be, I guess it would be later in that, that summer, a rich business guy out of New Jersey's has a cottage, or may have built a log cabin in big log cabin in Pennsylvania. So I get invited and I'm the only guy with no money there

and we're there and Chris is there and he's showing these guys this contract from Warner Brothers again. And it has all sorts of money in this thing. And they're saying, no, no, don't take royalties. They're going to make any money. Take money up front and stuff like this. And he keeps saying, well, I want control the end of the movie and all this

are stuff. And they were talking to him and suddenly Tim Taylor shows up. And it was my friend that invited him. So my friend is a big business guy at Winnipeg. And he was out of conference. Same thing. He doesn't go to lectures. He just sits in the hall and talks to people. So he ran into Tim Taylor. And they got to be, they got to be friends and they were talking and stuff. And then he says to Tim Taylor, he says, hey, we're going on a UFO dig. You want to come along? And Tim goes, yeah, yeah, sure. They go to the Gerald Anderson's case. Okay. So Gerald Anderson is there and Tim Taylor interviews him. And they're pulling up this medal. And I still remember my friend, now he won't

talk. He's forgotten everything. He's forgotten everything that happened. He said, Tim Taylor said, when he got some of this mail, he said, this is the real deal. And he was all excited and he's taking some of this material back with him. So, that's where this whole thing comes about the gifting field. Whether he's at the gifting field or whether he was at another UFO crash or whatever.

So that's how my friend knew him. So he shows up what year was that? It would be 2013, 2013, 2013, 2014. So I met Chris in 2000. That would be at least 2013. Okay. And so anyway, so Tim comes to this meeting and he only there for a while. He's there morning, afternoon, evening, suddenly disappears. I don't think he stays one night at the cabin. He's

going back. He's flying and according to Chris, he had only come to see Chris. Yeah. He wanted to get Chris's details because he wanted to meet up with Chris. So he was there and I told people that my conversations with him, I said, if I had known who he was, I would have paid attention. I didn't know who he was. No. I just knew he was a nassau guy. And now that you know who he is, you're not going to get the opportunity. Because it says what he does. So I had the download experience. So we talked about downloads. And he talked about the invention. So he gets this invention. He's got 40 patents. Yeah. He has this protocol where he doesn't drink. He doesn't do any of that kind of stuff. He sleeps for eight hours. He gets up.

He goes to bed for an hour again. And then he gets up and then takes a tall glass of water and he sits on the porch and the sun. And he starts to drink the water. And then he's in contact with the, oh, he calls him the being. or wherever. He doesn't call me aliens, whatever, and they give them these inventions. So the first one came, and I remember talking about it because I had the download, I guess I told him about my download experience. So he told me about the event. He'd woke up in the morning with this idea in his head, and supposedly this company sold for $88 million or $100 million on NASDAQ or whatever. And he said, the last thing I remember the night before was a hooded figure standing at the end of bed. And I said, oh, really? Could you see its face? And he said,

not going to see his face. And you can never see the face. So I said, oh, you go to L.A. because he works with cancer kids. He's all medical stuff. All the inventions gets. It's all biomedical stuff. It has to do with the spine, too, which is interesting. So he has his cancer kids in Miami and in L.A. So I said, well, you go to L.A. all the time, you should get regressed by Yvonne Smith and find out who the, who the vigor being is. And he said, yeah, I may try that out. And I asked Yvonne a number of times. She said, no, he never showed up. So he, so at one point, he pulls out his cell phone. And he says, What do you think of this?

And he, I think I sent you his photos. He sends me this search me his photo, these two guys on a painting. And these two guys are flying through space on this painting. And they look like they got pajamas on. One guy's older than the other guy. There's no signature of the artist or anything like that. He says, what do you think of this? I go, no idea.

Two guys slide through space. I don't know. And then he shows me another photograph of these balls all going down this tunnel. And I go, he says, wait a look at this. So I don't know. The balls going down on tunnel. I don't know, Tim. I know you and then he shows me another one,

this eclipsing, the eclipse is taking place. And I still, I know what you're talking about. And then he shows me this photograph, you know, it's like a screen on the outside of a building and it has all this outer space photographs

on the sort of like the, you know, planets and galaxies and stuff like that. And I go, I still love you talking about it. Then he shows me the catcher, he shows me this car on top of parkades. There's two buildings. And this is 999-Supolwita Avenue. I think this is all still intact.

It's right outside of LAX. You can see the runways from L-AX from there. 99-Supavada Avenue. you, there's two buildings and there's a parkade in between. So this is on the top floor of the parkade. And it's like a 56, 57 Chevy sitting on top of this parkade, sort of all by itself. And then he shows me and you can see something in the back seat. He says, see that in the back seat there?

And I said, yeah, he said, you know what it says? No, what's the same? He says, I wish I could travel through time and space to be with you. And I go, that's what it says? Yeah, that's what it said. And so I go, I still don't know what I talk about. And then he says, you know what this is? I said, no, I don't know what it is.

he says, this is the old Hughes Aircraft building. I said, Tim, I still don't know what you're talking about. How it is interesting. And then he says, this is for the, and I don't remember, again, I don't remember exactly what the wording was. He said, this is where the jump room was or this is supposedly where the jump room was. I don't know if he clarified that this is for sure. And I go, really?

Can I see the photographs again? And he shows me the first one with the, with the picture of these two guys flying through space. And he says, you know where that one is? And I said, no, where is it? Said right outside the elevator. I said, that's right outside of the elder? So, of course, I thought this is like a garbage story.

Like, I mean, nobody would believe this. No, yeah, Obama going to Mars and all this stuff. I go, sure. I need this story's true. So I get Andy Basie, I go and I phone him up and I say, hey, Andy, I just got somebody showing me some photographs from the Sepulveda Avenue there. Were you in the front building or the back building? And he said, I was a young kid.

I don't remember if I was in the front building or back building. And then I'm thinking, I want me, this starts true. And then it was years later, I'm sitting there, I'm going, what the heck was Tim Taylor doing there? If this is a garbage story, why is this high-level guy doing it this building? There must be some truth to the story. And then you hear the stories that Jesse tells about him in this obsession with time travel and stuff like that. And he shows me in there, I'm going, holy cow.

Part of the time travel club or whatever. And then he had that thing. And then the other thing that he gave to me during that conversation was he, what I do is you don't want to watch UFOs. I mean, forget it. We've got 250,000 UFOs on a database. We don't need another 10 or 20,000. We don't need that. We need to talk to people

who are actually interacting with the intelligence. So that's what Tim Taylor does. That's why he contacted Tim. Why would you not? Well, he contacted Chris. I know for a fact he's in contact with Whitley Streber.

I know he's in contact with Charles Hall. In fact, he went to Charles Hall's place over 15 years yearly. And he would bring high level officials over to his house for dinner. Yeah. One of them was named by Mary Teresa. Charles Hall's wife, David King, this guy.

And I mean, if you ever go look this guy up, make sure you're not logged into LinkedIn because you don't want him knowing that you're looking at his stuff. It is a mountain of clearances. Like this guy's been every department in the DOD. And so, you know, because at first I'm like, oh, this Tim Taylor guy, maybe he's just a fan. Maybe he's like somebody who had his own experience and is just trying to figure out what happened. But then you see these other highly cleared people that he's bringing along with. And that's where I go, wait a second. This isn't just some dinner for schmucks or some personal journey.

This is 100% him trying to recon part of the phenomenon that clearly the government is in the dark on. Yeah. He knows all the connections. He knows who to talk to in various agencies. Yeah. So when Tom DeLong went there and he took the photograph with the NASA, a mat, uh, uh, uh, carpet. Yeah.

And I'm thinking, I wonder if he's talking to Tim Taylor when he was there. Oh, I bet. And that's the whole thing where he knows all the connections. And, uh, but then when this, getting back to this conversation I was having with him, then I know that he, you're, you want to deal with experiences. That's what you wanted to do. And he said, oh, I think I, I, I'm dealing with a girl. I think she lives near where you used to live.

And I said, oh, really? Where was that? He said, Steinbeck, Randtelba. He said, that's like 30 miles from where I live. And he said, you want to talk to her? I said, yeah. I'm on Tim Taylor's cell phone. He phones her up.

I go, Connie, uh, Tim, uh, gave me your name here. He, she starts telling me about five years old. She tells me in the story and it's like, can I contact you later? I'd like to follow up on your story or whatever. And she'd now move to Florida. Yeah. And, uh, but I'm on Tim Taylor's cell phone. There's two women, but the one woman wasn't home or something, but I talked to this one moment.

And that was where I got the notion that that's what you got to do. You've got to talk to these people. And what she was doing is she was, um, for Tim, she had a log sheet. And she had all. these visions. She said it was like she was on the internet 24-7. And she'd give me these things, like the one she gave me was 16 guys underground in a coal mine in Utah. And the coal mine collapses. And they send in three rescuers to rescue them. And they die. They collapses again up above. And these guys die and they call off the rescue. And she's down with the 16 guys below as they

die. And then she has the one she describes. And I found it. And she was, she was crying. She was like upset. Like I found it. It was a true story. And then the other one she had and she and I found the actual photograph looked exactly what she was describing. She says there's a there's an upper rail in China. There's the, uh, two trains and they're on the same track. They're on the same track. And the one they've hit and the one train is hanging off the track and there's a mountain in the background. I found the photograph. Wow. And then she told the the beings at one time, she said, I can't take it. Stop. I can't take it anymore. Stop doing this to me. And she said to stop for about a year. And then she said, I guess this is my, my role. Okay, let it go.

But he was watching her and she was recording all the vision. she had, all the experiences her son was having and stuff like that. And he was logging the same as he was doing to her products. And there was something valuable there for him. He was logging that stuff. And that's what he realized. That's why I say, if you want to understand, you got to talk to people who aren't talking to the intelligence. Those are people who got to talk to. Those are the people, you could sort them out and disbelieve them. Yeah, yeah, sure. But you still got it, you got to listen. As I mentioned you before, I actually had like, got into the channeling thing.

And I got this guy's name is Andrew Davis from 1847, 1848, who was channeling. And there's always a story that, oh, channelers are all different, the same as you see experiences. Oh, it's just anecdotal. They're all telling different stories or whatever. And you start logging them together and you realize that 37% of people who claim nonhuman intelligence connection have had a near-death experiences. 80% have had an auto body experience. 90% have had paranormal experiences.

You know, 40% of them said at one point during the experience, they knew the answer to everything in the universe. And you start seeing these patterns when you start getting the people who are actually getting the connection. So I started doing that. And I realized that's what Tim was doing. And Chris would be one of his, is his top contacts. One of many, I'm sure. Of that,

that you're giving him. Then he had to pull off the background. But the, the, the final contact I had with him. With Tim Taylor? With Tim Taylor. He phoned me from Huntsville.

And he was in a restaurant. So I really couldn't hear him very well what he was talking about, whatever. I just remember the one story. And it gives you comfort if you tell your story to your, whatever, your friends, relatives, whatever, and they discount you. Because Tim says,

you know my daughter she's giving me a hard time about this she's just dad you gotta quit doing this this is embarrassing guy what are you doing and she's giving him all the stuff and then tim says to her just remember where the lexas comes from and that shut her up because he made a lot of money on that he did make a lot of money but i watched the protocols and same as the protocols you take it like as protocol you ever try that you ever try his protocols i didn't try his protocols i should try them but the other one's gary nolan if you ever get gary nolan you talk to gary nolan about his protocols because i knew he was doing the same thing yeah so i said to gary i said can i I quote you? Can you give me a quote on how this works? Because the quote he originally had,

he said, I don't know how it works. He said, I don't know if there's little elves in my head or he said, but I don't how to make it work. And he does the whole thing. You go through all the process, you work through the whole thing and you try to figure it out. And then you put the question beside the bed and he said the next morning or within the next couple of days, the answer, it's just knowing. The answer is in my head. And so I asked him, he said, yeah, it's like an FBI thing. I get strings going between all the different things. And that's what you find in indentions. When I did a book on Inspired, talking about inventions, I take the hologram and the laser. Both these guys were working on. They couldn't figure this thing out or whatever. And then what

you do is you shut down the left brain, the rational analytical brain, like I did when I was watching, when I had the download experience, I was watching crop circles, which I wasn't interested in. The left brain shuts down. The signal, suddenly you pick up the signal, because there's no noise in the signal, you pick it up. And both the guys that were, the hologram by Gabor and towns who got the laser, they're both sitting on park benches. And one guy was watching people play tennis and the other guy was sitting and they were sitting there waiting for the restaurant to open and they were quiet. And they weren't even thinking about their work. And all of a sudden, boom, it comes in their head. And they get up and run back to the lab and quickly right down. It's like the thing. You're there just kind of letting

your mind drift in this liminal state. And like you said, if you shut down the incoming noise, then you're amplifying, you know, your receptor for this type of signal or at least your connection to this cloud. So I wrote about, we wrote a book called Contact Modellies. We were looked at 70 different modalities. And when you talk about a modality for people listening, what do you mean by contact modalities? Like, give me, give me some like some of the more fundamental. Ray Hernandez had the original, he's the one that came up the term. So when I was on that lecture thing going down to Florida, Ray Hernandez had, his wife was seeing UFOs all the time. And he said, hey, you're crazy. She's religious and whatever. He's like, yeah, it's crazy, you know. And then one time he's,

she kept repeating this and these big, huge ships, with stained glass windows in them and stuff. And he said, he's standing outside and he said, I'm waiting for a guy, he's an IRS attorney. So the guy's bringing these tickets and he's going to write him a thing to get him out of court or whatever. And so he's going to be 15 minutes. He's sitting there.

He goes, ah, nothing to do, might as well. Ah, see if I can bring in those ships at my wife's seeing, he says, okay, if my wife is seeing ships, let's come down and prove it to me. And he's looking around and he goes, 15 minutes, goes, I knew nothing that was going to happen. It looks, oh, it's like, he said, Wembley Stadium over the next day near his house.

He goes, oh, my God, this is for real. And he calls his daughter, day, come down, come down. And she comes out and they're standing there. And then the guy comes with the car and the guy doesn't believe it. And he says, what are you? You crazy?

And then he says to them, he says, he can better show them something better. They don't believe this. And all of a sudden, the light start twinkling and going on. And these people got in their car and take off. So he came up with the, he looks up UFOs and consciousness.

So, of course, my name pops up. He says, you can communicate with these things. You can actually pull them in. And I said, well, yeah, I know that. And he said, I need to know what's going on. I'm going nuts. I'm only sleeping two hours. a day. I'm reading books on near-earouth experiences and

quantum physics and he's just talking a mile a minute. And I said, well, I'm going to be in Florida. I'm giving a lecture on consciousness and you can come to the lecture and we'll have a talk. So he said, okay, so he talks his wife because his wife has no interest. He says, we're going to go on a second honeymoon. We're going to go. And he comes in and he says to his wife,

tell ground what we saw. Tell him what's going on. He says, you guys, you talk too much of my earthel. And so we tell the story. And then two days later, he's in a traffic jam in Miami. completely stalled. Nobody's moving. And he's sitting there listening to an NPR broadcast on a guy doing body fat. He's making art out of body fat. And he's going, that's kind of weird.

And I always said, boom, he's out of his body, he ends up in, up in whatever, some non-nolocal reality. And this wheel is spinning around. And there's these images. There's remote viewing, psychic phenomena, near-death experiences, mediumship, all this UFOs, all this sort of stuff. And the wheel is sort of spinning. And in the middle is, it gets the idea of consciousness in the middle. And the being say to him, Ray, you got to quit parsing this stuff. It's all the same thing. So that's my version of how this works is that you are at a level that we're in the

bottom of the water. So you may, you've done auto body experience. Somebody may do meditation, having experienced your meditation. So you're in the bottom of the ocean and it's dark. You can't see anything. So you have an auto body experience. You sort of float up into the water and you go, holy cow, there's something else here. And you see this fishing.

You go, what level am I? on and the fish goes you're not at any level you're in the water you eat and it's like there's no there's no levels it's just you go that closer you get to the light the more you can see and certain people can get higher up with a letter and the other interesting and so uh this is what we had this contact modality you got to be able to shut down the left brain the little voice that talks and once you can do that and some people like trans channelers can do it it's like music some people are good at it that's yeah maybe that's why like well that's how you also enter these flow states right yeah this uh this creative state of mind where like you know you're able to

navigate your thoughts more clearly. But also late at night seems to be another one. Or some people even, you know, will take medication or, you know, substance to get themselves to shut off part of their brain so they can, so they don't have anxiety or so they don't think of all the tasks that they have to do at work. And it's in those times when those things are shut down that you're just kind of like in this liminal receiving state where you can have these ideas. And that's, you know, I've got tattoo here, it's Carpe Noctum.

Like, I mean, this is, I know, I know myself by now that at night when the rest of the world is kind of sleeping and when I'm just about to go to bed, it's in those moments when you're in and out of consciousness, sort of floating toward, and your mind's just kind of freely wandering that you'll get these, quote unquote, downloads. And the best piece of advice that I can tell anybody is just keep. a bedside notepad. Exactly. And write it down because I guarantee you will forget it. You will forget it. You'll remember 1% of what you're, you know, what you're thinking about. I had two major ones. I had one in 2012, Colin Andrews. And then I had one very long one in 2016. So I live in Winnipeg. It's pretty cold. It's not midwinter yet, but it's cold. And I do a lot of walking. I walk about four hours a day. So I'm walking downtown. So it's about six miles. So it's quite a walk. and I'll stop at McDonald's for coffee, two miles into the walk, and I leave in, and all of a sudden it comes.

And it's like this knowing, you know, if you had the experience, you know, get the pen out. I had the pen and I pulled it out and it was like just knowing. It's like, right this down, right this down. And it was, the whole thing was 24 things. And it was like, you think it's this. And I've been told this numerous times. Everything that what you think it is, it's exactly opposite of what you think it is. Right.

So it's the idea. Is it, is it one? Is it physical? No. Is it, is it consciousness? Is it, is it random? or is it pattern? Is it this?

You think it's this, it's actually this. You think it's this, it's actually this. And it's the opposite thing. So I'm writing it down. I get about 14 of them, whatever, I take my glove off

and I'm writing this stuff down. Put it back in my pocket. I start to walk. I take about 10 steps and that feeling comes over again. Oh, here it comes again. I get the pen out and I start to write. And lots of times I'll be like in a shower

or I try meditation. So I'm in meditation. And I heard people make this joke before. You're sitting in meditation and you're sitting there and all of a sudden you're about 30 seconds in, and all of a sudden an idea comes and you go, Can you come back another time?

There's even a story about, yeah, I'm trying to do something. The famous musician that the woman, eat, pray love, she tells the story where she says, they're on, what, for 10 years on the best out of list whether his book was. And she says,

the book just wasn't coming. And I just couldn't figure it out. And I remember there was a musician I can remember the guy's name was. He's driving down the L.A. freeway. And suddenly the song comes. And it's a beautiful song. And he goes, can you not see him on the freeway?

If you want me to get this song, do you think he'd come in a better time? Otherwise, he told him, go to somebody. You mean this other musician. Go to this musician and give it to him. And then so the woman that wrote, he prayed love, she says, so I said, I try it. So I go, okay, I'm here.

I just want to let you know, whether you show up or not, I showed up for work. Now, if you're going to help me, you're going to help me, but I'm here, I'm doing my job. And then she writes his book that was like one of the biggest selling books of all times. Incredible. And so you start to look, you start to realize these patterns.

Yeah, the flow of the flow state of this, you know, there's also Robbie Williams. Are you familiar? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. He's an experiencer as well. You know, he talked about this on, I think, a weaponized podcast with George and Jeremy. I've spoken to him as well. We remain in contact. And I'd love to have him on the show one day, but he's got this incredible story of him writing a song. And I forget which song it was, but he's writing a song, I think, in his L.A. home. And as he's writing this song, you know, this orb suddenly starts to be this golden orb over the the horizon as he's singing the song. And as soon as he's done the song, the orb goes away.

And he does it again. And it comes back. And it goes away. And he does it again. It comes back. And he says, hold on, I must be crazy. So then he drags his wife in and she sees it. And he drags friends in and they see it. And there's this other phenomenon that happens afterwards. But point is, there are a lot of artists who experience not only these type of downloads, which leads to, you know, a best-selling book or a best-seller or a hit song, but also have interactions with entities, whether it's in an astral state or in a physical state or they see a craft. You even, you know, go so far as John Lennon, one of the most inspired or inspiring artists of our generation. Like this guy was, he was a game changer in terms of how people lived.

You know, he had his whole Nutopia sort of movement. that he had with Yoko, but also the song, you know, imagine and like he, this guy kind of changed the world. And for him to say that he experienced things, I mean, makes perfect sense. Over here, up there, I saw a UFO. And it went down the river, turn right at the United Nations, turn left, and then down the river. It wasn't a helicopter, and it wasn't a balloon, and it was so near. And you look what sort of round, white, reminiscent, and silent.

silent and it looked dark like black or gray in the middle and had white lights just looked like light bulbs, you know, just going off on, off, on, off on, blink, blink, blink, blink, around the bottom and on top was a red light. Is there another, are there another few names that come to mind in terms of artists in history that we might know that may have had these experiences? I've heard of Elvis, I've heard maybe. I can tell you, I can tell you a couple really wild, the wild stories. Would you like to take a break before? Let's give another 15 minutes. Sure, yeah.

So anyway, this is how I did music. My father, I make the joke, my father would be rolling over in his grave, amazed that his son ever wrote a book on music because my sisters are all musical. My mother was a church organist for 40 years. My father built theater organs. He could sort of play, but he wasn't, you know, my mother was major organist. My sisters played in a group and stuff.

And me, they sent me this for six months and then pulled him out. It was a waste of time. So anyway, I get a phone call. this is about 2014 from none other than Chris Bessel. And he said, now I know he's a real deal. I mean, I had this appearance with him with the dog. So he says, I got a message for you from the Guardians. I said, really?

You got a message from me from the Guardians? Really? He said, yeah. He said, what did they got to say? He said, Grant, they want you to know the messages in the music. And I said, well, Chris, you may be talking to the wrong guy. I'm a radio talk guy. I listen to the podcast.

I have no interest in music. My father, everybody's interested in music. I have no interest to music. I don't listen to music. and he said, well, you should listen, song you should listen to if we were Cashmere by Led Zeppelin. I go, whatever, Chris.

He goes, and then he's, and then how they drag you in. You start to realize, is this random or is this, you being dragged in? They said, and the other one you should listen to is after the goal rush by Neil Young. And I go, Neil Young is involved with this thing?

And he goes, yeah, I said, I live in, Chris, Chris, I live in Winnipeg. It's the one city in Canada where nobody wants to visit. Nobody, it's nowhere. Neil Young grew up in Winnipe. I said, you're telling me he's involved in this thing. He said, yeah, someone check this out. And so I checked the lyrics of after the go rush. And basically, after the goal rush is he's sitting in a bombed up basement

and everything's falling apart. The whole world's coming to collapsing. And the silver seeds come and take the chosen ones to another planet. And the chosen ones is a von Smith's word for the, for the experiences, the chosen. And when I saw that, I go, holy cow. And then suddenly I realized that all these other people. Flaming Lips sang after the goal rush. Flaming Lips, the main guy on Flaming Lips, you can see videos of him talking about his experiences at the drive-in movie theater, and he's

had millions of UFO experiences and stuff like his full-blown experience there. And then I realized that Patty Smith, the first woman to sing on Saturday Night Live, she believes she's from another planet, which there's probably in my book, I think I named 12 people. John Denver believe he was from the Constellation Lyra.

And I started listing all these experiences who sang after the goal rush. Dolly Parton, who has done a lot of talking about UFOs and stuff like that. And I'm going, these people are all singing the same song. Like, what is going on here? And so I started gathering all these songs, and I came across piles and piles. Like people like... Well, the Eagles.

The Eagles, yeah. Or what's the guy that had the child problem? Michael Jackson. Michael Jackson actually said he was afraid to put his name on albums, because he said he didn't write any of this stuff. Or Yoko Ono saying it's like channeling, that the Beatles were channeling. They were channeling material.

And then you have these synchronicity cases. And if you watch the Beatles in that documentary also, just kind of riffing and creating, you can't argue that there's something else in that room. You know, these are things that we're going to be singing for a hundred years or more. Yeah, because they didn't really get along with each other. No. Very different personnel.

Especially with Yoko there. And when you got into the studio, then it was, they started to flow. Absolutely. And, and a lot of me, musicians will talk about the fact that that's a flow state that when they're there, they don't even realize what's going on, that they're just playing the music. Or the guy that came up with the drum solo, the famous drum solo, what was it called? He started, a lot of them started, he started surf rock and wipeout, the song Wipeout.

Oh, yeah. He wrote their song, Wipeout, and it was stolen by the ventures. He said they stole song from it. But anyway, he, and then you get the guy who was, uh, well, I, I, I'm not a musician, so I don't remember these people's names, but I give you a couple bizarre synchronicity stories. I like synchronicity stories. So the one involves Yoko Ono and John Lennon.

So Yoko Ono wakes up one morning in this liminal state, and she's got this song in her head. And they believe that they were the reincarnation of Robert and Liz Browning. There's one of their albums that actually has them dressed up as Robert and Lizza's Brownie poets from the last century. And so this song was, Elizabeth Browning and she's she phones up John and he's in the he's in the Bahamas and she says John I get this song and she actually puts on one album and it's like well you're saying well oh my God she's saying this song

this screechy voice you know and she says John isn't isn't that cool John and he said yeah that's cool she said well you should write one from a Robert Browning and we'll put them together and he said okay he said you you send me the stuff because then in those days that's just before he died there's no special delivery stuff. You know, it's like you got to mail it to me. So she's going to send it on a plane or whatever. It's going to take a couple of days to get to him or whatever. And he says, okay, send it to me.

And then he phones her back in the afternoon. He says, you're never going to believe what happened. I was watching this movie. And this song comes, one of Robert Browning's poems comes out. And this guy's, it's in this movie. And so he says, hey, so I'll write the song. So he put the song together. It's the last song they ever composed.

They made it on a music box. in the bedroom. He was shot a couple days later. And she put it out on an album after he died. It was the last song they ever created. But it was this bizarre synchronicity. Or the other one, and I'm not going to remember the guy's name. But anyway, it's Bono.

So he's, Bono from YouTube. He's in, in, uh, um, in, uh, Wembley Stadium. And he can't sleep. So a lot of musicians, you'll hear the story that can't sleep, eh? So he's, he's there and he can't sleep. And he's playing this movie, uh, mystery woman. now that it's a country western guy see i'm not going to remember his name but anyway he's singing this song not willy nelson no no he's singing this song in the movie mystery woman i think was the

song he sang but he's singing this song and so uh bono's listening to song we're in a repeat over and over all night he's sitting now so he goes to sleep and he wakes up with this song roerberson so he wakes up with this song and he goes hey this sounds like a roerbertson song so he goes to He goes to the practice at Wembley Stadium, and he's telling the other guy says, you know, I got his song last night. I couldn't sleep. I went to sleep. And it's like the sounds like Rorverson.

They still don't play it. So he plays this song. And then they go, yeah, it does sound like Rorverson. So then they play the concert. And he goes back in. He wants to get this composition down. He's go back in and knock on the door. And security guy says, oh, somebody's here to see you.

Who's it? Roy Erison. He came from America to see your concert. Whoa. He goes, Roy Everson's here. And he says, yeah. So Robertson walks in, he says, you guys are fantastic. He said, I'd like to play with you sometime.

Do you think you have a song we could play? And Boris says, yeah, I think I kind of got one this morning. You can't make that stuff up. It's just so weird. And how many musicians I actually believe that they're like the. Oh, there are musicians that also that I've talked to recently. I think it was Dan Cleary who hit me up. Dan Cleary, who's also, you know, a researcher.

But he was also touring with a band. He was, you know, playing music, playing guitar. and he would say that, you know, sometimes they would just know. They were with the other band members, and they'd spent so much time together in that they were all on this frequency that there was like a telepathic communication between them all, knowing where they're going to go with the song. And you see this with jazz musicians who often riff. They're just playing, you know, they're playing riffs. They're like, hey, do whatever you want. And they're following each other.

But there's this beautiful meld that wouldn't happen if you're. you were to sit there and try and structure it. Yeah. It has to happen that way for it to be like a genius level, for it to be, you know. I wrote down something people didn't know. I went and looked and, because I would do this big thing. I'm big into the right brain, left brain thing, that the left brain is creating the signal noise and the right brain is the one that's in contact of the universe. So anyway, I wrote down how many musicians can't read music like literally all of them. Yeah. And if you take jazz and if you take blues, that was never written down.

Yeah. It's this whole idea is the worst of the song coming from. And if you try to analyze it, well, let's go here, this beat and that sort of stuff, it's this thing of waiting for it to come. And all these musicians, like McCartney, McCartney says, I've never played a scale, nor do I ever intend to play a scale. It'll ruin my ability to play. Yeah.

And they have no ability to write music. And Jackie Gleason had a band. He had 20 albums. He had a band. Wow. And he couldn't play. Well, I know that. I've listened to his music.

It's great. And he couldn't play, but he could play by ear. Yep. But he could tell in a, in, even though he had no background, he could tell if somebody in the, in the orchestra was off. Yeah. And stuff like that where he, this. Look at Robert Johnson.

I mean, yeah, yeah, the devil, you know, yeah, I list, uh, me and the devil, the crossroads. Like, all of that does seem like it was channeled as well. Like, I mean, he literally talks about selling his soul to the devil and all that stuff, you know. Yeah, I list in the back of the book, I list, um, all the songs that were created in under five minutes. So one of the famous musicians said, if it comes in in more than five minutes, it ain't worth writing down. Right.

And this idea, or how many songs came in dreams? Like the famous one is yesterday by McCartney, where he wakes up in the middle of night, and there's a piano in the room, and he goes, holy cow, and he sort of gets the chords, whatever it is, and then he goes around for a month. Have you heard this song?

Because he figured someone had sang it before, and he's had three. The other one he had was, I think it was called No Regrets. And he came and he was playing, He dreamed he was playing with the Rolling Stones. And he woke up, he says, hey, that's a great song. We played that Rolling Stones. And he goes, the wrongstones ever played that song?

And then he said, I never told McGregor because he'd want royalties. And so these guys knew this kind of stuff would happen. And, and the one of the big ones now is Chris Martin from Colplay. Do you ever hear him, watch some of the videos where he talks about how he gets, how he gets a tune? Yeah, he says it's from God. And he talks about some of his famous ones, the orange one was the funny one where he says, he says, the song came to me. Well, yellow.

Yellow, yellow. He plays the song and then the other guys are in watching the soccer game. And he goes in, he says, hey, look at the song I just got. And they go, that's pretty cool. And then they go back to soccer game. And these songs have like 500 million hits on him. And all his stuff, all came the same thing. Channeled almost, yeah.

He talks about the fact he can't read or write music at all. And he can't explain where it's from. Yeah. You know, magicians get this a lot too. Yeah. As a practicing magician, I've put a lot of work into this. Actually, I have a talk about this as well. about the difference between sort of a, you know, magic with a C, magic with a K, magic with a J.

But essentially the idea that during these flow states, there's three ingredients that we have when, so basically, magicians all around the world, we get to witness real miracles, but we won't tell the audience when they happen because that's what the trick's supposed to look like. But there are times during a magic performance when, A, you're in this flow state. you can do no wrong. And that's what I mean by flow state. It's like everything it feels like is precognitive. You can just deal with anything. There's a knowing that everything's going to be okay. No matter what you do. And you'll even throw wrenches in the process to see how you deal with them. During performances, you'll try to trip yourself up just to see if you can like get out of it. It's that type of. And then with that comes this confidence, this stupid confidence where you have no business being this confident.

There's no reason for you to be sure about something that has a probability. And the third ingredient is this pygmalion effect where the people in the audience believe that you can accomplish these things, right? And they have this core belief that you can do it. And because that you're feeding off that. And so when you put all these things together, magicians will, and I have plenty of stories. I wrote, I put this out to a bunch of magicians, like thousands of magicians, and I got 200. in a day, I got 200 responses. I asked them, describe a miracle that happened during performance and tell me what state of mind

you were in when this happened. And it was small group of people, end of the night, flow state, I was on fire, and I just went for it because my gimmick or the thing that was going to make the trick work malfunctioned, and I had to just wing it, and I just went for it. And now they're guessing people's pass codes. They're guessing people's names. They're, you know, I've had stories of like, oh, think of this person you haven't thought of in years and think of something you'd like to tell them. And as he's doing this, that person texts him.

Like, incredible, incredible, like almost synthetic synchronicities. They're made by the magician because he's in this altered state and he's playing with probability. That's the means. That's the currency. And so we have these things happen over and over and over again. and we don't tell the audience that they happen. If I guess your passcode, you know, let's say I already, my trick malfunctioned and now I have to just kind of, and I actually get it, I'm not going to go, oh my God, I'm going to go, ta-da, right? And they're going to go, oh, my God.

But then I'm going to go see my magician buddies and go, you will not believe what freaking happened last night. It was insane. And so magicians tell each other these stories all the time. And when I put that out there, I started getting responses from comedians. And so comedians on stage, they do crowdwork. And when they're in the throes of being in the flow state, they'll all of a sudden start going, you there, you look like a plumber.

Well, I am a plumber. And then they'll start doing these like crazy. And they can't explain that either. And so it seems like artists of all different genres brush up against this when mastery starts to be attained, even writers like yourself. So when you've been doing something long enough, you get into a loose state, even fighters.

will say they don't know if it's deduction or if it's precognitive, like the punch is being thrown, where they can just kind of see them happening in slow motion. And I feel like everybody who attains that level of practice in whatever vocation they have or whatever, you know, discipline, their training, eventually you hit that state. And in that state, you can start to interact with something else. And, you know, your work with music and musicians,

I mean, just really shines a light. and on this particular phenomenon. Yeah. Do you think that this can be conditioned? Like, can you get better at this, you think? I think we're starting to learn. As you were talking, I was thinking, like, now we've got these developments of the, whether you follow this telepathy tape thing.

Yes, right. And I was dealing with her before it all became famous. And this is this whole idea that these kids do way more than just telepathy. These kids can speak foreign languages. They claim they're on this hill, interacting with each other and stuff. So we're starting to learn more and more about how this process works. We realize, like, for example, with people like Bashar, when they did the test on his brain, he was high gamma. So that's a flow state.

And that you're starting to see these patterns all over the place and that you can learn from what they're doing or the blindfold thing to explain the mystery to say there's something here that we're missing in terms of how can you see through a, how can a five-year-old kid see through a blindfold in 15 minutes and stuff like that. And so, and I'm sure the government has been working on this forever, this whole idea about musicians or magicians. They worked on CIA, endless. John Mulholland, 1950s, wrote the whole book on, you know, Slight a Hand and Subterfuge. And even, I'm sure, they've worked with people like Apollo Robbins, a world class pickpocket. Yeah. You know, all these guys.

That's a thing. But I'm sure mentalists, too, you know, they probably get a lot of calls from the CIA. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what they're using. If it's new, you don't reject it. You want people who are sitting on the edge who, you know, aren't going to be backed off and go for it.

And that's where, because you know the Russians are working on this kind of stuff. And the Chinese, like I know the story that Bob Emeter told me that that HAL put off a contact at him about going and see the Chinese kids. And this is right in the 1980s. Yes. There's a declassified document about that where they were, uh, changing the time on watches and they were teleporting things. Yeah.

And the CIA was watching us very closely. Why would they not be watching this stuff? And that's the whole thing. And Bob was supposed to go, but again, his wife didn't want him to go with Alan Sandler. She figured he was going to get in trouble if he goes to China with Alan Sandler. So he never did the documentary. But Hal had sort of briefed him on what was going on in China, all this kind of stuff, and figured like he's the exact guy that was in the paranormal who could do a good documentary

and bring this stuff forward. So you can see, so you can imagine where the government is. I don't know, did I tell you, I missed told you, I told you before, but I told the story about the rat brain thing. I always tell the story about the rat brain thing. We haven't talked about it. Where they get, they take this guy in southern Florida. So this is 20 years ago.

And it's 2004. This guy takes 20,000 neurons from a rat brain. And he puts them in a Petri dish. And he wires the bottom of the Petri dish into a F-22 simulator. And they teach this, sending signals to the, you see the, you shows the film. And you can see the neurons and they're all sort of separated. And then day later, they're all sort of joining up together. And third day, they're all talking to each other.

It's like a little brain. Then they put the wires on there, put it in, and they teach it by sending high, low signals in to keep the plane and signals this way. And eventually they teach this 20,000 neurons to fly the simulator. And then they take the simulator and they get wind conditions and thunderstorms and high cross winds and stuff like that. It's learning. It keeps flying. And that's the thing. So if that is the technology that you've got 2004, and that's white world technology.

imagine what the DARPA's working on. No, that is absolutely the next generation of AI. Yeah, and that's biological. It's biological. That's why I say with the craft. So I wrote the book on the 36 windows that came to me flying the craft. And I remember the first woman that came to me because I had to download February 26, 2012. So I give a lecture in Phoenix, Arizona the next year.

And the woman was running, it said, are you still going to talk to Pam DePui? I go, I guess so. I said, I must have agreed to talk to her. whatever. So he said, that's good. You come to me at my house. She's going to come. I'm going to work. She'll talk to you. So then Pam Dequeen and her boyfriend come to the door. She's in her 70s. And she said, what did Stacy tell you about me? I said, I don't know. I'm just supposed to talk to you. So she comes in. She's, I'm doing remote viewing for the government. I was a little kid. I was abducted. I saw the UFO. I mean, my diaper. And she's in the middle of a field. She's all the stories. You hear all these stories. You go, okay, whatever. You're telling me stories. And she's going on about hour later. She says, yeah, and it was flying the craft last night. And I go, what? you are what? And she says, I was flying the craft last night. I said, you? Because I'm thinking to myself, you're 70 years old lady.

You're flying the craft. I'm thinking to myself, Saudi Arabian women at that time, could not drive a car unless there was a man in the car. I said, they let you fly the craft without a license, insurance, nothing, they just let you fly the craft. She said, yeah, I've flown through different models. And then I'm thinking, do I throw her out or what do I do?

And I'm doing. So I do fly craft. She says, oh, you do it with her mind. And suddenly I go, oh, that's why they set me up with this woman. And I said, you fly it with your mind? And then these people started to appear from all over the place. Chris Bletzel, for example. He comes to me and he says, he said, I've flown the craft.

I was talking about yourself. I saw, I flew the craft. I've heard experiences talk to me about it too. Yeah. And then he said, yeah, I've flown the craft. He says, stop, Chris, don't tell me anything because I don't want to prejudice you. I'm going to phone you. I'm going to contact you on Skype at that time.

I'm going to tape it. You tell me, start from the word go and tell me what happened. So he tells, I'm outside the craft. And he tells this whole story about the craft being bigger on the inside. Look outside of 30 feet. Look inside. It's the size of a football stadium. Look outside.

And the beings are in the being in the side. And he says, they say to put your hand on this panel. So his, and everybody touched something different, which is really weird. How can you have 36 cases where nobody touched the same thing? But the idea is you touch the craft. Yeah. The craft is conscious. It's alive.

It's biological. You become one with a craft. Your mind becomes one with the craft. And whatever you think is what the craft does. So you have to touch something. So Chris had a pedestal in the middle of the craft. He shows me, he draws where the beings are in the pedal stool, and it has this like a beehive on the top and some black, like plastic thing on the top.

Put his hand on it. And then he said, okay, hit your hand off. You can see where his hand is. And it's like a, like a CD-ROM, you know, with all the colors going through it, like you can see where his hand was. And then there's these hexagons. And I've only heard one other person tell the story about the hexagons. They're in the wall.

These hexagons are turning and they're small. And he said, as this is taking place, they're going faster and they're getting bigger. bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. And he says, this whole thing's taking place on the inside of the craft. And he said, all of a sudden, the window opens up in the front. And he's over top of the Cape Fear River where he's abducted. And he said, I was sitting with cross-legged on the floor flying this high off the water down to the Cape River going, Yahoo! It tells us.

Fly to the Navigator. And I found out my assistant had flown the craft. I said, you flew the craft. And I was like, oh, God. And people always say, it sounds like, I think it was a dream. Like I had this guy, he was a F-22, an F-16 population. And I was lecturing in L.A. And I'm lecturing.

And then we went for dinner after. And I talked about people flying the craft. And then this guy comes in and they said, David, David, he missed trying to lesser. He's talking about flying a craft. Tell me your story. And I said, oh, you flew the craft? And he said, yeah.

But I think it was a dream. I said, everything is that's a dream. So, and then I said, David, tell me who you are. Tell me what do you do? I said, what do you do? He says, I'm a pilot. I said, oh, my son's a pilot. My father's a pilot.

What do you fly? He said, F-16. sit down tell me your story I think it's a second dream he said don't care tell me your story and he tells me I'm on a ship I'm standing on a ship just standing there and somebody's behind me and they say okay go ahead and do it and he goes I don't know what to do and they said you know what to do just do it it looks there's his panel he puts the hand on the panel panel board and he says suddenly I'm flying the thing I'm flying this it's like flying an F-16 except he said it's like suction cups on end of 16 whatever that is and he's got his hands on there and then he takes one handle and he says suddenly I'm flying the thing

off and he figures it's going to stall. He's going to put a hand back down. He's got his hand off and it's not stalling. And he takes his hand off and he's great, ready to put it back down. He takes his hand off and he's flying the craft. And then that leads to another weird thing where he's telling me this story.

And then I got other people who start telling Jim Semiband tells the story. He says, I'm on the beings are there. And he said, the interviewer James Ian Dolly says, well, so what was, what were they saying? What was the beings? I don't want to talk about it.

People are other investigating. I don't want to talk about it. And then he gets frustrated. He says, oh, okay, was there any telepathy involved? And he said, that was the strangest part. He said, there was somebody standing behind me. And I couldn't see whether it was a reptilian, a tall white, somebody standing behind me. And it had this guardian type thing going on about it.

And I go, guardian type thing. So I said to James Ian Dolly, ask on what side it was on. Because if you studied Michael Newton, the whole Michael Newton thing, when you get, when you go in front of the council, your guide, your guide stands behind your left. In the room of destiny. Left side. Yeah, yeah. And so then I'm saying, holy cow, all these people, I started realizing this person talks about somebody behind them.

Somebody's behind him. So I went to Whitley's stream. I said, hey, Whitley, you've been on the craft, right? And you said, I got this weird thing I just suddenly discovered. And you can't go back and re-interview people. Yeah, you're trying to ask them. What's like? Oh, my goodness.

Like what? I missed this question first round. Sure. I would have more people. But I said, Whitley, do you ever have the experience? You're on the craft and there's somebody behind you and they're telling me what to do, but you're not allowed to look. And he said, well, yeah. He says, I told you.

I was sitting at the panel board there and he said, and I said to myself, I'd like to steal this thing. I'd like to take this thing. And somebody behind him started laughing. And he said, he's telling this thing. He said, all the time. There's always something like. And didn't he tell him like you would have no idea how to fly this thing?

Yeah. And he said he flew it from New Jersey to Denver in a couple of minutes or a minute or something like that. And so do you pick up these sort of patterns or people are on the craft and they say, I could see him 360 degrees. And I go, how do I, I don't know, I'd have. how do everybody experienced people say the same thing? Near death experience people say the same thing.

You become like a consciousness. And he starts thinking, it's like a vessel for consciousness. You know, it's just all the same world that these people are in and you have your perspective of what you think you're doing, but it's all this higher realm, all this manifestation,

or you even take the story with the craft being bigger on the inside than outside. And that's where Susie Hansen tells the story, where they say, watch Susie, we're going to make the ship bigger. And she says the walls, the white walls start, go, go, go, go, go.

And suddenly, they're so far, she can't even see the walls anymore. And that's what the woman told me, this crazy woman that told me about flying the craft. And then she says, oh, they got crafts that are as big as a solar system. It's like, what do you talk? Like, come on. And then I hear this again.

It can make as big as they want, but it can be inside a rock. Yeah. There's no time and space. They can be inside a rock and you go inside the rock and it's the size of solar system and there's a craft and, you know, and all this kind of stuff is your whole reality starts to fall apart. And that's what they were basically when I did the psychedelics.

I couldn't do meditation and I couldn't do I couldn't do out of body experience, lucid dreaming and stuff. So I did the psychedelics. It had 27 high dose psilocybin experience.

And they kept going about my ego. And they would say to me, you think you understand everything. You think you know what's going on. You have a clue what's going on. And they kept telling me this. And then finally I got frustrated.

There was about five, four sessions of this at least. And then I said, you know, I didn't, I called Silicine school. I just went there to say, I'm here. What do I need to learn?

I'm not here to get anything. It's just what I need to learn. And I got these lessons. They were giving me these lessons. And I knew what the lesson was, almost from the word go, exactly what the lesson was going to be. And then so I got frustrated at this ego thing.

They were kept hammering my ego. And then I said, you know, I didn't come here to be abused. You know, I just came here to find out what's going on. So you tell me what the hell's going on. And then had this voice or message or whatever happened. We don't know either. And I go, oh, come on. How ironic.

We don't know either. It's like they're at their level or whatever. That's why I sort of use all these modalities to try to get. And if you get somebody's really good out of modality, then you find that they get some answers. They're doing this flow state thing. Yeah, they're tapped in through this flow state. Whether it's channeling or music or, yeah, it's all kind of the same. I see.

Yeah, you're looking at different modalities here. Yeah. And you can get some pretty weird stuff in terms of one woman. who, you know, who just goes into a trance and claims that Leonardo da Vinci is going through her and she's, her hand is drawing and she's asleep or stuff like that. And you, there's no way you can explain that. A lot of people also who, even a friend of mine, Jordan Crowder, who's, he's big into consciousness. And he says his whole book was written that way. He's like, I don't remember writing 90% of my book. It was just kind of like writes itself. Has that ever happened to you?

I mean, you've written a lot of books. Is that? Well, I get the, the, the inspirations for writing the books. So the inspirations like a muse come to you as a download. It's usually synchronicity. Like Chris was the thing where he gives me phone call. I see. The report book was where it was a bizarre synchronicity where Jeffrey Mischelov is interviewing Stan the Kripner, who's the longest living parapsychologist. And Stanley Kripner's talking about stuff that falls out of the ceiling.

I remember Ray Hernandez, the first time I asked him, we're L-A-X and couldn't get an Uber. And I said, Ray, you got 4,200 experiences. Who's your best guy? He said, well, Alberto's the best guy. And he's got these ports and I go, a ports, what are he talking about? And he said, oh, these are ports. These things they fall out of the ceiling. He's got this big sword.

I'm like, he's got a sword. It's like, and he shows me this, he's got this wall of all these shelves of all this stuff, all these reports things that are falling on. I go, this is the weirdest thing I've ever seen in my life. And then I go to this conference and that's when they play with my PowerPoint. It was the most paranormal thing that's ever happened to me. I'm going there and you go, you know, how you could take your PowerPoint before and make sure the speakers are working and then your sound is working on your slides and stuff like that.

And I go there. and all the slides are doubled up, slide is sideways, they're squished, they're pulled, and I'm going, what is going on here? And I just took it out, I put it on the thumb drive, so I go back, I take a, clean off the thumb drive, put it back in, I look at the computer, everything's perfectly normal, put it in, load it again, go back, and then I put it in there. It's the same thing, and the guy says, well, maybe you didn't do it. I said, I've done like 200 PowerPoints, I know what I'm doing.

I know what I'm doing. There's something weird going on here, and then Paula says to me, she says, are you coming to the rest restaurant at 8 o'clock. I said, Paul, I got problems with my, with my computer. She said, well, you know what's going on. I said, no, that's not what's going on. Paul, no, that's not what's going on. And I went and I did it again. And I came back. And then I figured, okay,

so I just tell them, delete all the doubles, all the triples, delete all the audios. There was a bunch of slides missing and stuff like that. I said, I can wing it. I can wing the rest of it and the stuff I got. And it was just so bizarre. And then the synchronicity comes. So I get that thing. And then there's feathers,

all these people with feathers. I wouldn't even get into that. It's just, unbelievable story about these feathers falling all over the place. And the last one was my, we had gone to the next city and my assistant was there. And she comes in with this feather. And I go, get out of here.

You got feathers? She's, yeah. I'm standing outside waiting for you to come out of this gift shop. And this feather comes down and falls on my foot. And it was just 13, 13 people, just the weirdest thing. And so Krippner is on Jeffrey Michalov, and he's talking about airports. I go, oh, all ports.

Let's watch this. And he said, I had this woman, this guy from South America, and he was a psychic. And he's doing all these reports. he's making stuff appear, jewelry and all this sort of stuff. And he said, and then some of the rook in my house and stole all my stuff. So I decided in order to protect my stuff, I would send it to a university to make sure it got protected. So the next ports I got, I sent to a university in Canada, the University of Manitoba.

And I'm going, I worked there for 40 years. What's the chance that the only airport collection, except for the one at Stanford, is at the University of Manitoba. I'm going, holy cow. I got dragged into this report thing. And started looking at asking experiences like, Have you ever had something fall out of the ceiling? Or you mentioned the thing about the book. I ask everybody all the time.

They read a UFO book like Sherry Wilde. You know, the thing, they ask you and she said, she tells the story. I wake up at a computer. I'm a real estate agent. I never use the word program. I wake up at the computer and I look. And the word program's open. She goes, I never use a word program.

What's it open? She does reading it. Oh, no, we're not going there. No way. No, we're not going there. And it's their story. And then Da says, there says, oh, yeah. You should do this.

No, no, not doing it. Whoa. Timing is everything. And she says, I'm not writing your damn book. And then she reads it against. She says, that is pretty good. And then she goes, this whole thing. So I ask people, I say, a lot of, most people, experiences write the book.

I say, did they ask you to write the book? Yeah, I've never told them. Yeah, yeah, I think they wanted me to do the book. Or the story, I told you the story about Mike, Mike Cleland, where he gets pulled on the ship and he turns into a gray. And he gets in front of this council where you can't see their faces and they're behind this table, this wooden table with garbage carpet there. And he's going, it's the weirdest thing. Like on a spaceship, they got this carpet and stuff like that.

And they say, Mike, it's time. He said, what am I doing here? What am I doing here? Like, it's time, Mike. Time for what? What am I doing here? It's time. And then they suddenly, he remembers and he starts yelling.

You never told me he was depressed. And then they said, you volunteered for this, Mike. It's time for you to get going. And two days later, he starts writing the first owl book. So you hear this over and over again. And every time somebody has a book, I would say, do you think you got inspired? There's some type of muse event or guiding. That's what they want.

They want you to tell the story. And they don't care if you tell it right. They just want everybody telling the story because that's how consciousness rises. Sure. Like people will say, we made no progress in paranormal or the UFO. And they say, we absolutely have. Absolutely have. Yeah.

Because I started in 75 and people think it was the same as it was in 75. It's not even close. Not even the same world as 75. And so what you have is a situation where you tell the story, I tell the story, and consciousness rises. And you can go to China today and you can say Area 51. And they go, yeah, we know what that is. It doesn't matter.

Go Africa, Area 51, Skinwalker Ranch, near death experience. I don't believe it, but I know what they is. Everybody knows. And it's what Max Planck said. You do not, and Max Planck was quantum physics, the father of quantum physics. And they were harassing him as well.

Because he said, you do not, you do not convince your opponent he's wrong by showing him evidence. It happens when your opponent dies. and the new generation is not offend with the idea. And that's where this idea comes about science advances. Generation. One funeral at a time. Yep, absolutely.

And that's what happens. So the consciousness is up there and the young kids are not going to deny it. They say, yeah, UFOs, yeah, sure. And that happens with AI too. Like, I mean, it happens with all advancement. Like, I mean, our grandchildren's grandchildren. I mean, they're going to be raised by AI nannies and it's not even going to be a question of, you know, whether or not it's ethical. I do want to get into some questions from the audience.

Do you want to take a quick break before we do so? No, I'm good. If you're a member of this channel, you join the membership, a lot of perks. But one of the perks is you get to submit a question for our esteemed guests. And we've got a few questions here. They're pretty interesting. So we're trying to pull these up right now. So Gina asks, what's the most interesting research?

Like the single most interesting non-physical aspect. We've talked about, obviously, the synchronities, the flow state, the interactiveness with. this, you know, consciousness existence, but what's, what's one aspect? Okay, one thing I'd spell out first is that it's all one thing, rather than it's the doubt that can be named is not the doubt. Once you put a noun, when you call it a noun, it's wrong. It's all a verb. It's all connected. It's all one thing. It's all. So it's a different level consciousness. It's like when you had your out-of-body experience, you're floating above your body and you look back at your body and you say, it's the consciousness in the brain. No, it's floating around the room here. Where is the,

where is the brain? It's in my consciousness. The body's in your consciousness. You're looking at it. And you look out the window and where's that? It's in my consciousness. This idea that there's no separation. I think the most amazing thing I have seen that should change the world is the telepathic children. I mean, what's her name? Haley was the first one I saw. That just blew me away. And this is Diane Hennie C. Powell's first

girl where she hit 162 numbers right in a row. First time she got seven wrong. And then she said, well, you got seven. wrong. And then Haley went, Bip, beep, boop, and 162 in her right. And there's no way that's this can happen. Or you take a look at the kids now that are being tested at Stanford, at Harvard, University of Virginia. There was a six universities offered to do these kids. And it hasn't caught on. That's what frustrates me in the field is you get this stuff and you go like, wow,

the world has changed. And like, nobody pays any attention. They just go, oh, do you see any UFOs lately? Any of photographs? That's like, you know what I heard? What I said? And this is these kids that that they can go 20 for 20, 50 for 50. You put, these experiments, it's triple blind. So you're the experimenter. I'm, say, the mother. So I'm in one room. The kid's in another room and you're in another room.

You give the target. It goes to me. I think of the target. And the kid goes, beep, beep, beep, beep, and we'll never make a mistake. Why haven't they made any of that public? They have. Well, we don't. It hasn't gone anywhere.

That's what I'm saying. Yes, but I mean, like, we can't see any of that. We don't see any of it. I've interviewed the one girl with the, with the blindfold, four blindfolds where she's going. But I want to see the tests under test conditions. Like it's a very, very important distinction for a magician. Yeah. When it's done at home with a podcast versus in a Stanford black.

The daughter, they said I would get the first interview with the daughter. And then something happened. And, but these tests were done. I'm not sure why I would love to see them. They weren't coming out. They were done at Stanford. And apparently these guys were just totally blown away. And by these children with under these triple.

They need to release this. Well, I think, well, yeah, that's the thing. Like, that's why we're not talking about it. Yeah. Yeah. I agree with you. That's, that's the stuff that just. That is insane.

Amazing. And you see these kids and like they have like the ones with the people say, well, they're faking it. Well, you have 100 kids in India. There's a big Indian Institute that does this. And you have these kids and they're all sitting there and they get to target. And then they're walking around. And these kids, you can see their targets. And they're all like most of them are hitting the target.

And like, a. 100 kids at 5 and 6 years old are faking this. And then you're going like, why is this not out there? It's like just amazing. Like just recently, they got the ones with the telepathy tapes, which was the number one podcast at one point. Of course. But the thing was that it went into these labs and they were supposed to release.

Testing was supposed to be done at the end of October. Stanford. It was one. And I heard the University of Virginia because they do the reincarnation stuff, all that kind of stuff. but it hasn't, it hasn't come out. I mean, it hasn't, they've done demonstrations at contact in the desert and stuff like that. I've seen those. I was there.

I was literally inches away on stage for those tests. What I saw there didn't convince me, I'll be honest, that that was telepathy as a magician, just knowing methods. You know, one of the reasons for me personally, and this is, again, I'm not here to throw a wrench in the process because I want it to be real. I really want it to be real. I think this is amazing, and this would be leaps and bounds for. us understanding consciousness. But in that moment, you know, when there was like the mother holding the paper for the child to like press the, touch the numbers on, you know, I'd ask on stage, I said, can the, can someone else hold the paper? And the answer was no. I was given no. And then I said,

okay, can we put the paper in a stand? And she said, no, we can't put the paper in the stand. And I said, well, see, these are the type of things that I fight against as a magician, because I could be queuing you subtly. And the child wouldn't even, you know, she'd be none the wiser. She'd just be, thinking, oh, I'm making my mom happy by getting these things right. And so there needs to be proper testing of these things in proper conditions. And those tests need to be public. They need to be released. There's no reason we should be hiding them. The only reason I can fathom that we're hiding these tests is one, they failed or two, somebody doesn't want them out there. Like those are the two options that I can think of. Otherwise, it's just a benefit. It's a net positive for everyone if we

released these. So I would encourage like whoever's. You could go in an offer to do testing under control conditions. Yeah. To see if anybody goes for it. Because there's so many kids that, that have disability to do this. Yes. That are claiming through their parents. And then the one kid's got a blanket on his head and, you know, this kind of stuff. And, and, uh, I would agree. I mean, if they're, they're not making them because that was the thing. I talked to them just as the tests were ending. They said, well, we can't let you interview the daughter until the tests are done. And then I waited and then nothing happened. So, but I mean, that kind of stuff. If you get that, Or if the kid is talking another language.

Yes. I mean, that's pretty specific. Or learning. Yes, absolutely. I agree. But again, these are stories until there are some type of, you know, like you might have, you might have seen these happen in person and some other people may have as well, but until they're documented properly.

But the question is, are you ever going to get to the bottom of it? Because that's what Max Planck said. You're never going to convince anybody by showing them evidence. You're never going to convince the skeptic. Right. They'll always come up with an alternate explanation. It's not until those guys die. Yeah.

The new generation says, yeah, this is real. So there's a balancing act between getting it out. I do think so. And trying to convince, say, Nick West or something because he wants to do a big podcast and expose it. No. Or, you know, the New York Post or whatever. I understand that. I understand that, I understand that, you know, having a peer reviewed study by people at Stanford.

But again, I brought a peer review study. You know, I'm doing the experiment with the soul thing. And then they said, oh, you've got to do a peer review study. They moved the goal post. I'm not going to do a peer reviewed study. I'm not an academic. And if I got the peer review study, who's going to be on the peer? I mean, the Roman Catholic priests that are running on the show here, the stuff like that.

No, you're right. You make a valid point. As a magician, I have no choice but to be skeptical because I'm aware of how to trick people, right? I am aware of methods. And until I can eliminate the methods that I'm aware of. Have you brought this up with Kai Dixon? I brought it up with Dr. Diane Powell. Okay.

Yeah. And would she, she offer to? She was a little reticent. No, I talked to her in person and then I emailed her a few times about my concerns with what I had witnessed. Yeah. Because, again, I'm not out to. She should be willing to point fingers. And she was at first, but then she assured me that she was having the tests done under, you know, strict Stanford guidelines and sort of variables.

But I responded, you know, with all due respect, as a magician, I can fool the pants off every one of these. scientists. And that's my job. It has been for a very long time. I don't care who you are. I would say. I mean, if you need somebody with the knowledge of how to trick people. Not that you're going to run the test, but do you give the advice? I can give you variables that should be eliminated. And there are a lot that, you know, clearly scientists are not aware of. And that's why magicians, you know, such as like O's Perlman or all these other famous magicians, Darren Brown or whatever, are popular. Because if people started figuring out, they would have no job. So obviously we have methods that no one else has and we have to keep those secret. But I would be willing to impart that knowledge. Yeah, you should be

listen to you because, I mean, that is a balancing act. Whereas the other thing is, like, if I run my experiment, then the experiment I'm doing right now, I would never let a magician do the second reproduction. That's right. I know exactly what's going to come up. Right. And so it's this balancing act between taking that advice and having someone oversee, but just apply it. But not allowed the magician to touch the correct. Absolutely. Yeah, I would be happy. I'm surprised that you didn't get taken up on that offer because that, that makes sense. Because if you're going to run these experiments, you're going to make a public like right now. now and everybody's going to say, well, this is the explanation.

Yeah. They've done all that work for nothing because they didn't address your concern. Exactly. And I would be the biggest champion of it. Yeah. If they did take the advice, then I would use my platform and everything I know to help push this into, you know, onto people's screens and into their consciousness. I think it's really important. But until then, I can't get behind it.

And it would be quoting you now. Yeah. All the skeptics would be quoting you. Yeah. Sure. And they could do so with confidence and I would be happy for them to do so. But until then, I think that that's partially, you know, what James Randy said it to do initially, although he did it in a very negative way, which I don't agree with. I think if you come into something believing that it won't work, that that sort of pygmalion effect might have an adverse effect on the conditions itself.

I think that if we're dealing with consciousness. Yeah, there's a story told in Great Britain about the one child who is doing it, reading books. So they're doing this, they're reading the book. And then the father, who's a skeptic, brings the case. kid in one week for the lesson and the mother can bring the kid in and then the kid's reading and then the father's like, holy cow. And he goes and he looks over the kid's shoulder and then suddenly the kid says, I can't see. I can't see anymore. And then the instructor says, could you move away, please? And he takes a couple steps back. Oh, I can see again. And it's this idea that there may be a minefield.

There might be. Yeah. Yeah, you definitely have to consider all these weird things. Everything into it. I mean, to reject something from someone like you who's an expert on magic, I mean, that just blows it out of the water in terms of where are you going to go? Because everybody's just going to say, well, you didn't cover this corner. Exactly. She actually had that problem before where she did the Haley one where someone said, or there's a tape recorder behind her telling her what to do. And that's, oh, you know, we didn't look at this and there's always going to be these things.

Exactly. But if we can eliminate the variables at least that most magicians are aware of, I think that that'll in, I think that that'll translate to a lot more people jumping on board. Yeah. But people are smart. People will, you know, they'll try to poke holes in things no matter what. Like I have, I can show you after this podcast. I have probably on that shelf, probably three or four books that deal entirely solely with how to peek through a blindfold.

You know, and so until I can eliminate those methods, I can't be entirely behind it. But if you can eliminate them, like for me, the blindfold. fold thing I think is very interesting, but I also think it's very performative. Like, it feels vaudevillian to me, whereas if you just put something in a box, it would eliminate all my concerns. Why do we need fabric? Why can't it be a metal box? Like, what's the difference here? And if we can't answer that question, then I have to question what you think consciousness is. If you think consciousness can't see through metal, but can see through fabric, I don't think we're talking about the same thing. So, you know, I'd like to address things like that. And if we could get past

that barrier and prove to people that this is real, I will 100% be the biggest champion of it. And I would love that. I would love the opportunity to help out with that for sure. All right. Let's get to another question here. This is an interesting question, too. I've pondered this question myself. From Decker, he says, if disclosure is a process, not an event, what phase do you think we're in right now?

I think we're in the phase of realizing it's not just nuts and bolts, that there's something beyond. And you have these high-level officials like Jim Semiband where he makes a statement. There doesn't appear to be any there or there. People say we just need to connect the dots. I'm not sure there's any dots to connect. And you hear that and you're going like,

what's you talking about? Or you hear Likaski saying, you know, if I told you what was inside the craft, you'd realize the rest of the book is very, very primitive. And then when he finally describes it's inside the craft, he says, nothing. There's nothing inside the craft. There's no beings. There's no control panels.

There's no engine. There's nothing. And then he says, so what are we really dealing with? Or when he makes this statement, he said, what we were trying to do in the program was move it from the $22 million on the propulsion. And we were trying to move it up to $150 million. That's where Reid was going. And we weren't going to be chasing, flivering UFOs around the country, which indicated, he said, I'm not saying we're going to have a, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,

a department of paranormal, but we need to, in this whole idea, $150 million to go after the paranormal, to explain this idea of the paranormal. So these high-level officials are starting to hint that this is the whole thing. And that,

to me, is maybe why they're not making the disclosure. Because if you've got all the answers, and if you got all this technology, and you're flying all this technology, number one, Bigelow wouldn't have pulled out in 2010, realizing there's no money in here. And Donald Trump would have been into it

and trying to make some money or something like that. And the way it is is that it's sort of a dead end road in terms of the answers you have. And if you don't have the answers as what's going to, I predict what's going to happen now, it's going to be a million and one questions and you're never going to end. It's like the Epstein thing. You're never going to be able to answer all the questions, another question, another question, another question, another question.

And just going to keep going. And they may not have the answer. That may be what the cover-ups all about. So do you think for people looking into, you know, disclosure or people being interested by this stuff, that they should stop trying to follow perhaps like the legacy retrieval type path and look more into what these privatized government contractors are doing and where their money is going in terms of SI research? Yeah, because basically whatever's going to happen now, people when to talk about disclosure, I say, what do you mean by disclosure? What exactly do you want to disclose? And they say, we want to know it's true. Yeah, it's true.

They told you. Okay, disclosure. No, no, and then I want to know, and it just keeps going. And basically all that's coming, what's going to happen here at this point is they're going to confirm UFOs are real. And I always said, like it's the definition of insanity. We've done this since 1947. Let's get, how many red ones, green ones, how many fast ones, slow ones, where are they

seen, all this sort of stuff? And that didn't get you anywhere. And you just keep doing the same thing over and over, assuming you're going to come to a different conclusion. You're not going to come to a different conclusion. And all we're going to prove here with the Trump thing if they've released the documents is, yes, as Obama said, yeah, there are aliens.

And number two, yeah, there are UFOs. And they are here. Beyond that, we don't know anything. So it's this physical part they're going to reveal is true. That's disclosure. But we've already. They've disclosed the physical stuff is real. Yeah.

It's the other part of the thing as to where they're from, what's actually going on. How do they get here? How does it interact with us? Yeah, all that kind of stuff. I don't think they, they may have the answers at a very deep black ops level. Right.

But that's why I think why they're doing these disclosure things where they're allowing people like Lakatsky to come out and tell these stories where they take true information. They surrender it with disinformation. They put it out and they're sort of moving the ball or as, you know, this whole story where Chase Brandon said in 2012,

that was his job at the CIA. He was the Hollywood guy. So if you were doing a movie on the CIA, go to you and say, hey, you're doing the movie on the CIA. Have you ever been to the CIA? Would you like to go to CIA? We could show you around.

It would be more accurate and you're very, and they try to direct the story. And we have to direct the story sort of away from the fact that we've already discovered. Yeah, this is real. I mean, almost nobody really denies this. And there is a physical aspect of this thing. This things can, as they can with. Instantiate in any physical form.

But you may even get consciousness on that ain't because in consciousness, they now ports, like Leslie Kane, when I interviewed Kelsey Kane, the co-interview said, what do you want to ask her? I said, I'm only asking her one question. Who's that hand real? And then, and then so she came on and said, Leslie, tell me about the hand. Did you actually touch that hand? Yeah.

And she describes, and this is the whole thing, that they can manifest a hand, they can manifest a ship, they can manifest whatever they want. Yeah. They can lower it down into physical thing throughout ports and manifestations, and then they can make it disappear again. And that's what Leslie said, who's the one that wrote the New York Times article, where she said, I've seen it four times, where the ectoplasen comes up on the table and she's there and the hand is there and she's touching the hand.

I can feel the tendons and it's soft and it's like a and then it bangs on the table and it goes back down and stuff like that, which gives you the idea if it's true that these are dead people manifesting this stuff, then what can aliens who are a million years more advanced than us? How would they develop in order to manifest stuff in our world and to change or? Or is all of that the same phenomenon? Yeah, it's all just different levels of the phenomenon. Yeah. Are we dealing with some type of system that can instantiate in any form to interact with your consciousness?

So, you know, if you're thinking, if you're a religious person, you're going to see an angel. That's what Kit Green actually says. And if you're exactly. And that's a Jacques Valet, you know, talks about as well. Where, like, if you're fearful of monsters, you might see some giant insect or something. And that's the same thing happens in lucid dreaming, where they say if you see a negative being, go towards it, give it a kiss and a hug and say you love it. and it'll turn into a positive being. That's right.

Because you're the one that's manifested. Instantly manifesting it. And then you get the thing with Sparks, where Sparks talked about the ability that they may have. He was one of John Mack's first clients, and he talked about the fact he's got to come up with the idea of screening imaging, that they can screen image. And they'd come in a military uniform.

And he goes, you know, you're not fooling me. I know you're screen imaging. You're not fooling me. You haven't even got the right uniform on. He said instantaneously, as he said that, the uniform changed to the right uniform. Instantaneously. Well, that's interesting.

too. This is a really interesting thing because now it becomes, and this is where I get a little confused by this whole thing, because we go from this, what seems to be like a predictive event to a reactive event. And it's really interesting because it, you know, we have nuclear silos that house these warheads and these ICBMs or whatever it is, or even these places that mine uranium or plutonium and you have these crafts show. up, right? They show up after Hiroshima. They show up, you know what I mean? Like, they're showing up as war is unfolding. They're, they're showing up reactionarily. Like, they're reacting to things. They're not predicting them. And to me, that signals that there is something that they don't have

control. There is free will is very much on the table, it seems. And that they're only trying to course correct free will. rather than predict it and stop it, they see it happen and then they react, just like you said, the shirt changed after instantly. But there is a portion of free will there. Yeah, they have to allow. What the Canadians were told,

what I heard that Wilbur Smith had told, and I heard the story from the first head of Mufon, forgot his name, but he told me that what Wilbur had told him, Wilbur is in contact with an alien, that they tried to land at Southfield, Alberta, and all this kind of stuff, and Prime Minister LeRond knew about and sort of rejected.

And what he said that Afa told him was, if there's a nuclear exchange, we can stop it. We can take the moon in front of the entire world, split it in half, and put it back together in front of the entire world. Other than that, we'll allow the human race to stew in its own juices. Yeah, wow. That's the only thing they're not going to do is, the idea, like why are you here?

And that's what it comes down to the UFO thing. To me is, it really doesn't matter. The question is, where did I come from? Where am I going? And if you're a Newton person, you get into that thing, they ask you one question when you leave, how to work out. Because you planned it. You planned you're going to do this.

You're going to do that. And did it work out and stuff like that? And, yeah, so the idea is, where did I come from? Where am I going? What did I agree to do when I got here, whether it was love, envy, whatever? And am I doing it? And whatever anybody else is doing? is totally irrelevant. And so that, to me, is sort of the bottom line of this whole...

So you believe in the whole Michael Newton sort of, yeah. I was one of my five big experiences of my life. I was floored when I first heard. I saw him lecture. And I was like, oh, my God. You saw him lecture. I spoke with Paul Aron, who is the successor of the Michael Newton Institute. I've devoured, you know, Journey of Souls, Destiny of Souls. Like, It is one of the most sort of plot hole-filling, I guess, theories out there. You know what I mean? And the fact that it's composed entirely of hypnotic regressions from other people is just fascinating. And yet, yet if you start looking, it's still that thing where we're composing our own universe because now there's a new guy.

His name is Castle, Father Nathan Castle. I mean, if you've heard his stuff? No. He's had 500 dreams. He's a Roman Catholic priest, and he gets these dreams. People come into him in the dreams, and they say, this happened, and he, so then he gets his prayer team together, and they talk, and he's a channeler.

He says, I can't use the word because the Roman Catholic Church doesn't like it. So he talks to these people, and they're basically in a purgatory. They're in this, the one that was really funny. He's in this thing where all these people died in train car things. And the guy's saying, we need to, we need to get out of here. And he said, well, there's Boulder in the middle of the track. We can't get out of here? And then so he says, well, can't you sort of get to all the people and push to the thing?

Nope, nope, not. He said, well, I'll see if I can get a friend on loader. And then the guy says, well, golly gee, there comes a friend and loader. And then they talk to him and the guy says, okay, you got it. And he says, well, make sure you bring me in the instructions how it works. This case I know how to work. And he's talking to this guy. And he's got 500 cases like this.

And it's all this purgatory helps up. They're helping to move on. Where these people are in this sort of liminal state and the spirit guide send this person to him. If you ever listen, listen to Nathan Castle, listen to his things, he's 500 and he's, he's done this, he's written three books on it. But it's, I've heard a time of these stories too. You see the whole thing. It's a purgatory world, whereas Michael Newton's is this elevation world or when I heard. Well, Michael Newton does talk about the purgatory a little bit too. He says like, you know, if souls are confused at their death and if they didn't have some preexisting dogma or some preexisting like afterthought of what

happens after you're dead, they will just be confused as to why they're still there and you'll have this guy being his house and be like, why is this guy screwing my wife? Why doesn't she make me tea anymore? I'm so confused. And he doesn't, and there's no time, so they're there for 100 years. And they don't realize that they've had to move on and they're dead. And Castle doesn't describe where they go after that. Right. Like the Newton thing, the ascension thing. Right, right, right. So you see that reflective nature of the people that come to him and they're in that state and stuff like that. And it's, uh, it's, it's very informative as to, uh, how this might work. Sure. Stuff like that. I, I just, uh, fascinating. I, I found him fascinating and, and this,

this, this reflective nature. I'm going to look into, what was name? Uh, Nathan Castle, Dr. Father Nathan Castle. And you actually see this, this thing with, with, um, uh, Michael Newton, where I, I saw, uh, Sherry, um, Susie Hansen lectured in Toronto a few years back. And then she was talking about him. I heard the story where she says, She's eight years old and they say, we're going to bring your son to you to play with. And she says, I want me, eight yourself. I can't have a kid. She starts crying, whatever.

And they said, well, hang on. And then the kid comes out and it's a blue ball. It's a blue ball. And then the Michael Newton, if you know the levels. Yeah, the blue is pretty high. Blue is before red. And then she describes herself as red. And she's playing with this blue ball.

And then she, at later time, she describes that she's red. And I got her on the elevator. I said, I knew you were red. The elevation and her sign is a blue. And he's got this mission, she's got this mission. And I are so amazed because most people would know the Michael Newton colors. Like you know the colors. And when I heard that blue, I'm going blue and then she's red.

And it's like, wow. And you can tie that into the chakras. And like there's all sorts of connections to be made there. And the fact that like so many people from different parts of the world are talking about the same colors is just wild. It's a wild. And you get it through meditation because people will disregard the Eastern traditions because it can't build cell phones. But now you take on a look, there are 3,000-year-old traditions

of what's going on are coming to be true. And how do you get that? You get it through a contact modality. You sit in a cave for three years and cut off everything and suddenly you're in the field and you're getting all this material

and you're pulling it down. You don't have to build a cell phone, but you know how the world works. Yeah. And now they're, even the guys that were before World War II, all people don't know. All the physicists before World War II

were idealists. They all believed this idea that consciousness is the primary. And it came to World War II, that's when the whole thing about shut up and calculate. We're building weapons here. Let's forget about that kind of stuff. Yeah, war does that.

But you have that whole idea that they were all into Eastern traditions. They were talking to the Indian guys. Well, after the 30-year war at 1648, you know, you had this pouring in of, you know, because after that war was basically what stopped, you know, there started to be secular thought among, you know, religions. and the Roman Catholic Church was, you know, at war and trying to figure out, like, what's going on. And then eventually this sort of secular sort of, you know, thinking started happening. It's okay to have your own religion or to be Protestant and this and that. But along with that came this idea of maybe we can not only separate church and politics,

but maybe we can separate church and science. And so then that started branching out, which, you know, created the Invisible College. in the mid-1600s and this, you know, they started exchanging ideas in Europe. All of a sudden you had all these brand new, you know, thinkers come out. And science started really like upping. But I feel like we're on the down swing of that now where we've done that for too long. And now we need to go back to connecting with the spiritual using science. You know, we've separated it for the last 350 years.

I think now it's time that, you know, we start shifting our attention to bringing it back together and finding, you know, that the other end of the pendulum swing here. That's where we have that problem with, with, where they say you've got to get a peer, like AI, when I'm arguing with AI all the time, they get a peer reviewed study. I said, well, if you're in the UFO community, how are you going to get peer reviewed study? There's no peers. I mean, you can't use the science world to do it because they're in a different world. So we have to sort of get this to a point where there's research happening, which is happening now.

Paras psychology is being taught UFOs. They said the biggest thing happened to 2017 article, which is what I go after Jim Semivand, with is he says this is terrible. They violated their evil. They violated my human rights or whatever. And it's like, the question I would ask him is, Jim, if you had not had those beings in your room, would you have gone to the

three-letter agency said, we're going to drop this thing. We're not going to use classified material. You guys had your chance. We're going to drop this thing. And that's when disclosure came. Jim Semiband had started. But he wouldn't have done disclosure unless he'd had the beings in his room. So you see it as a negative thing. And yet

all that we can accept today, all that happened happened because Jim Semi Van had these beings in his room. Right. Interesting. All right, we got one last question here. Grant, uh, let's go from Hara. This has been a great discussion, by the way. Sounds like an Indian name. She's, uh, I think, has a Spain.

Oh, okay. This sounds like an easy answer. What is more classified today? Technology or human potential. Potential. One of the things I encourage people to do, anybody who's in the United States, if you're near the East Coast, Lawrence Rockefeller,

people think he was big into UFOs. His main interest was human potential. And there's one of the people that talked about, who was it? James Lackaski made the quote. He's talking to George Knapp and Corbell, and he said, they asked him about being evil. And he said, no, I may be prejudiced

by my Roman Catholic view, but no, I would say, if you knew the human, the potential of the human being, you would know there's nothing wrong here. That's what he says. Love that. Human potential. And that's the idea that, you know, to get into consciousness and what are we really?

We're just gradually learning this. Yeah. And we want to have everything yesterday. But we've got to realize it's a process and it's how you. And it's okay not to have it tomorrow. Yeah. And we work on this thing and what are we learning and stuff like that. Because that's what I find in the UFO community.

They just don't want to wait. They want this right now and why aren't we getting this and this sort of stuff and missing the sole point. That's where Walker said, admit it, you're just curious. What are you going to do if you figure it out? And most people that's like, nothing. I'm just going to do a podcast and then I'm going back to work tomorrow. Yeah. And, you know, it's something I've been telling people recently and I've been getting a lot of people disagreeing with me.

And for me, it's kind of acts as a lens of where you're at perhaps. But I don't, I think the answers are inconsequential. I do think the questions are everything. And it's the, you know, the answers are a carrot on the stick. The answers exist so that we ask the questions. And not the other way around. We don't ask the questions to get answers. Yeah.

The answers are there so they get us to ask questions. And that might be, you know, a little metaphor as to why the phenomenon is there, too. Yeah. Yeah. Like you see things like I have, like now I don't have these pills I'm on them, but I have problems with memory now. So I thinking, well, you know, is this Alzheimer's or whatever? And I'm thinking, it's kind of weird. Where does a thought go when it disappears?

And then I go back into the middle of the room and it comes back into my head where I thought about it. And I go, how does that work? You know, where's the thought going? Where does the thought go when you forget? There's a lot of science there, too. And you start to wonder, like, how does it actually work? And that's what Einstein said, you've got to stay curious. Yeah.

And that's where you go. And if you're not curious, nothing happens. That's what I believe the phenomenon is doing. It's just doing weird, weird, weird, weird stuff. And it's getting you to question what's really going on. The wow theory. Yeah. Thank you so much.

One last question. Out of all of your books, which one do you recommend people pick up? Inspired. Inspired. It's a great one. Or contact modalities is the one that was highly used by people who have all, whether you're a psychic or a medium, we go through all the different modalities and the whole idea of trauma. I will leave.

Which I think is extremely important. I will leave both of those in the description below. And if you had one book outside of your books to recommend, what would it be? I was mentioning to you one today is Robert Lanzah biocentrics and beyond biocentrics. It's basically a replay of the holographic universe, the whole idea of how does the world actually work? What is reality? High-level guy, extremely interesting, two books. Amazing.

I will leave those as well in the description. Grant Cameron, you've been such an amazing, inspiring, an interesting person to talk to. I could talk to you for days on end, and I have a feeling we'll stay in contact because I have way more questions for you. Thank you so much for joining me. Yeah, and thank you for that input on, I'm going to push the telepathy thing and ask, you know, why we can't have this, where are the results? And because I think that's, to me, that's the most important thing. And you brought up an important point, I think, which they have to consider.

I agree. And I'll be, I'll be consenting on helping in any way that I can. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Thank you.