Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Alex Cooper

Episode Date: June 16, 2025

Alex Cooper (Call Her Daddy, Call Her Alex) is a podcast host and television personality. Alex joins the Armchair Expert to discuss coveting Orna as her own shrink, growing up with a therapist mother, and the push to continuously be learning and honing her craft as a podcast host. Dax and Alex talk about her parents bombing their speech at her wedding, feeling vaguely aware of their competition upon first meeting but rooting for each other anyway, and why in order to be professionally respected she knew she had to create a bubble around herself. Alex explains attempting to hide her middle school past as a bullied “ugly duckling,” the sexual harassment she experienced as a college soccer player, and delving into how the system failed her in her new documentary Call Her Alex. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new content on YouTube or listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ now.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple podcasts. Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dak Shepard and I'm joined by Monica Padman. Hi. And we have a peer on today, Alex Cooper,

who's the host of Call Her Daddy, unless you were born within the last eight hours, you know Call Her Daddy. That's her great podcast. She's here today to talk about her new docu-series premiering on Hulu, June 10th, called Call Her Alex. And it's an awesome documentary. I really, really loved it. It was very special to learn so much about someone

that I just know socially and I like. And this is a very special episode. I felt very, very, very grateful for how open and lovely she was. Me too. Yeah, it's fantastic. Please enjoy our friend, Alex Cooper. If you're like me, you're always craving

that specific comfort food your grandma makes, and I finally found it. Nana's products just there, in the deli section at the grocery store. Samosas, toasties, and so much more, just like my Nana makes them. And you can tell from the taste that they're made with love. So good that, you know, I gotta go. I need to call my Nana and tell her I love her.

Visit YourNana'sKitchen.com for more info. Nana's. Proudly Canadian. I'm so in the inn. I already watched it. Stop. You got advanced screeners. You got some screenies. Yeah, but it was annoying because it had my email right in the middle, and so it was constantly covering everyone's eyes. But I'm that much of a crazy person addicted to that show

that I was like, I don't even care. I'm gonna watch it like this. You're not the person I met who has her as a therapist, are you? Oh my God, no. But I definitely have joked to her being like, Orna, come on. And she's like, no, Alex, it's full conflict of interest. I'm like, but what if we just did like a session? The way she like leans forward is like.

Her one braid. She's so chic and beautiful. She's like the hottest woman alive. She has this aura about her that you can't stop staring at her. And Matt thinks I'm insane because I binge the whole thing. Like I do a day where I just sit and he's like,

I like therapy, but I'm not that into therapy. Like you're fucking insane. It's not a sport. No, but I love it. There's something voyeuristic about it, that shows specifically, because it's like this where you're peeking in. I love therapy so much.

I could just sit all day and watch anyone in their own session. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, have you ever listened to Esther Perel's Maning in Captivity? Similar like, wow, I can't believe I get to hear this and I'm so delighted to hear it. I know.

I paused on my therapy recently because she was my therapist in New York. I was just getting the portmante, I'm like, I think I need to do in person. I really have missed it. And so I haven't had a therapist for a couple months. And Matt the other day was like, I'm going to therapy, do you wanna come?

Joking. And I was like, wait, yeah. And he was like, wait, really? And I was like, yeah. So his therapist is two blocks away from our office. So we walk there and we go into a couple therapy session together with his therapist. I just showed up.

Kind of unannounced. Yes, and she was like, nice to meet you. Which then I thought, how big of a mind Fuck for a therapist. Oh my god I'd be like absolutely not the person that your client just talks about all the time I'm like, it's me. Hello, and she's like, oh my god The monster's here

I just had a huge kind of issue with this. I have a therapist I love if you need her I can recommend Okay, yeah, just give her to me. She's incredible. But she's Zoom as well. So same-ish You might be able to see her in person. I just give her to me. She's incredible. But she's Zoom as well, so same-ish. You might be able to see her in person, I just don't. But anyway, she's incredible. And I had a friend who wanted a therapist, and so I reached out to her to get a recommendation. This whole thing ensued where basically my friend

ended up calling my therapist to ask her for a recommendation. And I panicked when I heard this information. I was like, you can't, that is such a boundary cross. You can't just go call my therapist without asking. And then we had a whole conversation about it and she was like, yeah, I really shouldn't have done. It was wild.

But the thing that I empathize 1% about that, because that is not appropriate, but it's hard to find a good therapist. So when you have a friend that has one, you're like, no, you better either share or tell me someone that she recommends, because it's all by word of mouth. It's hard. Okay, but hold on, Monica.

So would you say this flies under kind of a jealousy umbrella? It's an intimacy. She knows more about me than anyone on earth, truly. Including you, probably. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. As they do in four minutes.

And it's a bit of a longer story. I did get a recommendation for this person. I gave it, and then that person didn't call my friend back. So then they asked me again to check in again. And I was like, no, she's done her job. I'm not gonna keep doing that. And then there was a, I'm gonna find my way. I'm going through my mental Rolodex of your friends

to decide who's that entitled. That they were like, wait, they didn't call. I need a call back. To be fair, I had compassion for this. This person has never had it there, but doesn't really understand. She's learning the boundaries. Well, let me ask you this, would you be opposed to a good friend of yours just using your therapist?

Is that an issue for you? I guess it depends on the person. If it's someone I'm talking about a ton, that's probably a no. Would you care? I wouldn't care unless that person was a focal point in my life where I really talked about them in therapy. Cause I have friends that I've never even mentioned

in therapy and then I have friends who I talk about incessantly. So it depends where you are on that scale. No, okay, great. So would your fear be, there's a couple options. So your fear would be somehow your therapist would leak these complaints to your friend who's now seen her and I don't think that's it.

Or I think deeper might be, my therapist is gonna see this person, meet them and realize I'm nuts that I have so many issues with them. Is it either of those? You know what? No, it's more that I would be nervous that she wouldn't be able to do her job correctly

because in some capacity as a therapist, you are in this little vortex where you're taking in the information that they're solely giving you. Everyone has their own perspective in life. And so I would worry that if I was saying something negative about this person and then this person was talking in a way that wasn't congruent with what I had said,

she would just have a hard time being like, well, who the fuck is right? Who the fuck is wrong? So I just would worry it would make her life hard. And I want to be a people pleaser. But can I argue they don't believe anything you're saying in a traditional sense. They're listening to you and they're like, yeah, you're a human. And this person triggers this thing in you.

Even if you say they're doing X, Y and Z, all they're really thinking about is, well, why is that impactful for you and how do we write? That's fair. Their best version, yes, but they're still human. They're not robots. Yes, you do develop a relationship with them. And then I don't think they can fully, fully see you as just a project. They still see you as a person.

I wonder. I tried to go to my best friend's therapist. She said it was okay. And so I reached out to her therapist and the therapist said no. She was like, that would be a conflict of interest. Oh, so you're a hot topic. Probably.

Oh, shit. I mean, come on, we go way back. Of course I'm gonna come up here at night. You're a hot topic. I'm dying. Wait, I'm obsessed with this studio and I'm looking at this picture and I cannot figure out what it is.

Is that a bacon, egg, and cheese pork roll with? Taylor Swift. I was gonna say, is that Taylor Swift or your wife? Take your pick. Wow, what inspired Taylor Swift on top of a pork roll, egg and cheese? This artist does celebrities on a sandwich that they're related, so they did wanna meet on a Coney Dog

cause Detroit's known for Coney Dogs. You probably had one. You gotta get a Philly cheesesteak. You're closest to Philadelphia, right? A Philly cheesesteak? Newton was closest. It's called Newtown. Oh.

Not Newton, first of all, do your fucking research. Embarrassing. No, but it's me on a cheesesteak. Well, really quick though, is Newtown a suburb of Philadelphia? Yes. Okay, so you would do a cheesesteak. Absolutely.

Unless Newtown's known for some other culinary delight, which I doubt very fucking much, even though it's called Newtown. Listen, Newtown was a great place to be raised. It's not known for much. Every time someone's like, oh, you're from Pennsylvania, I'm like, I know, don't ask. Cause there's not much to give.

Anywhere you ask. It was a great place to be raised, but there's nothing interesting. There's no fun little tidbits. It doesn't make for good podcast content, honestly. We'll find it. So to therapy, it's almost more interesting that you like to watch a show about therapy

and you're in therapy, given that your mother's a therapist. Yes. I'll tell you, that was my hurdle with AA. AA was what my dad did and all of his friends. And it was virtually Catholicism because it's what he did. And so I'd be like, god, I got to join this club my fucking dad was in.

Something I got really lucky with my parents is that I leaned into both of the things that they did. I took a piece from both of them and I didn't run from it. And maybe it's because my mom loved it so much, but not in an annoying way. We would beg her to tell us about some of the things that she was doing to her clients. And she's like, I can't tell you about that.

And then sometimes as my mother, she would slip up and like tell me some details. See, humans. I know. I didn't know who these people were and she was whatever. And I thought it was so fascinating because of these interpersonal dynamics that you can always relate to in some capacity.

So I just really loved it. And I think I saw how transformative it was also for my friends when my mom would do quick little sessions with them in the living room. That was the go-to. I would come home from school or soccer and she'd be doing a session with my best friend. I'm like, mom, this is my time to go outside

and make videos and play with my friends. And then my friend would be like, I just need 30 more minutes. I'd be like, do you guys like my mom more than me? What the fuck? But no, it always had the very positive connotation in my household. Well, what I would have been interested in is,

oh, my mom gets to hear gossip. My mom gets to hear really juicy stuff that I would love to be hearing. For my mom, she works with children specifically. So it was actually more relatable, but less juicy and like, oh, these two are getting divorced. Let's talk about... Yeah, it wasn't a fair drama, which would have been so hot tea. And I also think having a podcast, I'm constantly trying to push myself to be

able to expand the conversation. And that starts with yourself, continuing to educate yourself, continuing to learn. And in watching these things, it helps me a little bit. I was taking tips from Orna as I'm watching her interact with her patients. I'm like, shit, I gotta do that when I'm interviewing someone. So it's also like a learning fun thing

because I wanna be better at my craft. So they're in the doc a lot and they're lovely. Your mom is hot and in charge and outspoken and confident and believes in you. It's all beautiful. And then your dad is very much a dad in the best way possible. Such a dad. What's that mean?

He just loves the shit out of Alex. And he will stand by her. And people have yelled things at him. And he is quiet and steady. He's so cute. Yeah, a good pair for the mom. The mom is seemingly from what I saw in the doc. She's in charge.

Yes, my mom runs it all. Dressed to the nines, great style. She was so nervous. She's like, do you think you could like blur my neck a little bit in the documentary? I'm like, mom, when you're ready for a facelift, I will be paying for it. You just let me know.

She's like, wait, you think I need a facelift? I'm like, no, when you're ready for a facelift, I will be paying for it. You just let me know. She's like, well, wait, you think I need a facelift? I'm like, no. She was so nervous. My mom is truly one of the most intelligent people I've ever met in my life, but she cannot public speak for shit. She bombed at my wedding. It was the best part of my wedding.

And to this day, she's like, stop fucking saying that. Wait, what version of bombed? She go up on her speech or can read her speech or she didn't write it? She wrote one of the most beautiful speeches you will ever actually never hear cause I still haven't heard it to this day, but I've read it.

She goes up and everyone thinks that my parents are doing a skit. They can't get the papers together. They can't get the papers. And then it continues where we're three minutes in, three full minutes where my mom can't get it together. And my dad can't Three full minutes where my mom can't get it together. And my dad can't get it together because my mom can't get it together.

He's feeling her anxiety and he's like, I'll do it for you. And she's like, no, I can do it. You guys. For seven straight minutes, I turned to Matt and I said, go up there, take the fucking microphone and make them sit down. And Matt was like, no, they're going to get it together. So then my dad can't see because he somehow forgot his glasses. I was like, no, they're gonna get it together.

So then my dad can't see cause he somehow forgot his glasses. I'm like, what the fuck? It's my wedding. He can't read and he starts just ad libbing. Hold that note. I'm presuming given the little dynamic I saw, he probably thought mom's gonna handle this.

Mom's gonna handle this. So he's ill prepared cause he's like, this is her thing. Laurie was going up to put on a show. She just fucking forgot that she can't speak publicly. So then my dad tries to remember the speech. Oh God. When I was born, I went immediately into the ICU. This is the way that my dad starts the speech.

When Alex was born, she came out of a cloud of blue. Dad, what does that mean? He's trying to read. So they bombed the whole thing, and I never heard their speech to this day. Matt then called them. It was our year anniversary, and he called my parents. We were having dinner, and he goes, you guys, it was this exact time a year ago where you ruined our wedding.

And my mom is like, Matthew, shut the fuck up. She's like, Matt, why would you remind me of that horrible moment? But to this day, she always says, the worst parts of weddings are always the things that you only talk about. We just talked about this with my kids play. You'll never remember it if it's good. You're praying that it's a disaster.

They were the stars, but no, she's the best woman I've ever met and I love her more than anything. Oh, you know, I should have started here because we have a familiarity that I think people will sense right away. Oh my God, how do we tell this story? Well, let's start with, we were all at Spotify.

Oh, I thought you were- So the very first time we ever met was at a dinner. That's true, very briefly. Very briefly. Outside in the dark. I wanna start there because here's my thought. In some sense, we're competitors. I think just recently I had noticed, and I think I said to start there because here's my thought. In some sense, we're competitors. I think just recently I had noticed,

and I think I said to Monica, like, what's this show, Call Her Daddy, that's blasting us at Spotify? To be fair, you kept saying, call you daddy. Call you daddy? Yeah. He couldn't get it right. He has dyslexia.

It's okay. Okay. I'm sure you're as familiar with the competing podcast as I was. I just focus on our podcast. But at any rate, I wanna make sure that I'm extra nice if I meet you. I want you to know I'm rooting for you basically,

even though we're vaguely competitors. Do you have any thoughts like that going into that dinner? Is that crossing your mind like, oh, we'll be with chair side expert or whatever you called it? The chair guy, the guy that sits in a chair. Yes, I remember that dinner because I knew everyone from Sweden was flying in for Spotify

and a bunch of the execs were gonna be there. And I think that was something that was a little different than other companies where a lot of the main people at Spotify, you rarely got to interact with, or you were on Zoom, which was great, and they were all lovely, but I knew they were all flying in, and I didn't know you were gonna be there that night, and then I remember seeing you because you're so tall.

And when we had our interaction, I remember being like, oh, he was so nice and lovely. But I think there was this mystified sense of the top podcasters, because there was only so much money that we could all get. And it's like, it's all an exorbitant amount. There's room for all of us at the top. But yes, I remember being like, what is he gonna be like? And then I had a great experience with you,

but it was so brief. And then we really became friends. Yes, so then I read about your serious deal and I was quite loudly excited for you on the show. Thank you. And then someone invited top podcasters to their house, and we got to the airport, and you were there. I didn't know, and I doubt you knew

who the guests were gonna be. We kept joking, like, are we in an episode of Black Mirror, or is this a White Lotus? This very wealthy, famous person invited a bunch of podcasters and people in media. When I was pitched it, I had a similar thought. I was like, oh, this is very sci-fi and someone's going to get killed.

And it's not going to be me. So I'm going to have a great story. I know I'll live. I was very bullish. I'm glad you thought that way. I would have thought I was going to die except the fact that Matt got to come. I was like, OK, I feel good.

When we arrived at the airport, yes, I only knew that you and Kristen were going. I knew no one else. And so that immediately, I think, gave us a little bit of comfort because as adults, it's weird to be like, we're all getting on a plane. We're all going to this place.

We're all gonna stay in these houses together like a little summer campy, strange. Have either of you wondered that maybe you're gonna be on some sort of lit like Epstein and Jason. Yes, I thought, what are we doing here? But thankfully nothing weird happened. Okay, well, if you're not worried, I'm not worried. Then we immediately all came together

because we knew each other a tiny bit. That's right. And again, I can't put too fine a point on, I just truly root for you and I'm so excited that you're crushing. What are you laughing at? I just spilled water all over my face. Oh, it is all over your face.

No, but now it's gone, you're fine. I'm rooting for you to stay dry during this. But yes, we have this long plane ride, and it was such a blast. We got along incredibly well, by my estimation. We did. And then we had this incredible three days, which included off-roading. What

a gift. I didn't see that coming. It was so incredible. One of the coolest trips truly of my life. I look back and I'm so grateful that we all went and the group was great and the conversations were great. The activities were incredible. Matt and I left being like, wow, we love Dax and Kristen. It was such a successful trip for us. Yeah, so then the plane ride home was just. We didn't shut up. Everyone else was asleep and we were in the back of the plane.

We couldn't stop gabbing. And then from there, we've now gone to dinners and we hung out. Yeah, we've had a double day. It was very fun. And I played poker with Matt. And your wife now texts me videos of births. Yes.

Kristen Bell texts me, you guys. It's fine. I'm fucking cool. One of the things that surprised me right away is I asked you, I think on the initial plane right there, do you have a hard time not becoming friends with all the people you interview? Because I'm finding that we meet so many fucking people. We had our 900th episode this week.

Congratulations. Thank you. So in that group of 900 people, you bet your ass like 30 of them I wanna be friends with. And I am having a hard time figuring out what to pursue and not pursue. And you go, oh no, no, no, I won't even give my number. And I was like, oh my God, this is fascinating.

Why not? I think I made a really conscious decision very, very early days, because one, we're a little different in that I wasn't famous before podcasting. I am known for podcasting. So I was a nobody when I came into this industry. And the minute I started interviewing celebrities,

I became very acutely aware that in order to do my job correctly, I needed to create essentially this bubble around myself where people started to really know me as this interviewer that isn't just hanging with celebrities. You are a celebrity. So it's a little different. And I felt like in order to really garner respect from these people, I wanted people to just be like,

she's not fame hungry. She's not a social climber. Yeah, because I remember so many people that I idolized growing up asking for my number. How do you say no? I was like, my assistant can get you, and she'll connect us, and then they never connect us, because everyone now is like, oh, Alex.

But it wasn't personal. There were so many moments I wanted to, but I knew, one, I really wanted to stay as normal as I possibly could. I've seen so many people come into this industry and get so wrapped up. And I knew I also couldn't do my job if I was so close with these people.

So I still feel moments where people come into my studio and they're really nervous. Then I obviously break them down and not be nervous, but I don't know if I could do that if I was at every Hollywood party. And nervous, but I don't know if I could do that if I was at every Hollywood party. And thankfully Matt is not that type of person. He's been in Hollywood for so long,

but he doesn't partake. So we kind of have this great simpatico with each other where we stay on the fringe, we dip in when we need to, but we're not gonna go to an Oscar party unless we're up for an Oscar. We're not putting ourselves in those positions. And I think it's made my life really easy now with my job. I have clear boundaries.

And do you think that being friends with the people would stand in the way of you asking a question that you would otherwise want to ask? It depends on the guest. I think if you're going really heavy on some of these, I gotta get in there. And I don't wanna say I'm being a dick, but sometimes it's a little uncomfortable,

but I'm gonna ask. And I don't want them to feel comfortable to be like, oh, I don't want to say I'm being a dick, but sometimes it's a little uncomfortable, but I'm gonna ask and I don't want them to feel comfortable to be like, oh I don't want to talk about that and then I'm like fuck, because my audience expects me to. So I think it's allowed me to have a level of distance so that I can ask questions like we're not friends, I'm an interviewer sitting here right now. Keep it professional. And now to be fair, there are moments where I see people at an event and it's beautiful to reconnect with someone because they shared so much like you guys do. You speak about really intimate topics here. It is weird to not become friends with them

because you're talking about the most intimate parts of their life and when you're in this bubble of a room it doesn't feel like there are cameras. It feels like we're actually hanging out. Oh I've gotten closer to people in two hours that I've never met. Dove Cameron, I didn't know who she was. We're crying within 40 minutes, both of us. There you go. She leaves and I'm like,

well, that's about as connected as I've gotten. So it's hard, but the beauty of conversation is that sometimes it's best left right where you put it out. And I don't need to continue that relationship with that person, unless they of course reach out and they're like, I really wanna have another conversation. But most of the time we leave it. Okay, so when we were getting to know each other,

and particularly on the plane ride home, and I was learning about your background, you're saying you were bullied and you're an ugly duckling. We're giving you the benefit of the doubt, but it's very hard. I know it is. And I did that by design, which is so sad to say. I worked so hard for no one to know

that that was my past life, trying to get rid of every photo on the internet, trying to not let people see that part of me, trying to erase a part of me that made me who I am. If you told me that when I was younger that you wouldn't have known, I would have been like, job complete. I did it.

I know that the pain of it and the self image of it is what it is, whether it's real or not. I do believe that that's how it felt, but then I watched the documentary. And again, you're not unattractive. You're a very cute little girl. Thank you. But you do have red fucking hair.

Oh, cute. Oh, it's so cute. And like acne. But we all have that. Is it real? You should watch it. Here's exactly what you'll be red fucking hair. Oh, cute. Oh, it's so cute. And like acne. But we all have that, is it real? You should watch it. Here's exactly what you'll be able to say. Yes, any adult would look at that child and go, that's a beautiful little girl.

And also I know what kids are like in third grade. Your hair is super red. What I love the most, you have braces seemingly your entire childhood, just like I did. You never got the hang of your braces. Like my mouth is so big and then the bumps all over and the freckles and the acne. But you know what's so sad?

I agree when I look back at pictures of myself, I'm like, it wasn't that bad. When I was home, I was okay with how I looked. And then when you get to sixth grade and boys and everything starts to change, I became aware of how I was being perceived as ugly just because it was constantly being told to me every single waking moment of the day when I was in school.

Everyone called me the ginger with no soul. I was skeletor, because I couldn't gain weight. So I looked like I had an eating disorder. And then it got physical. I will never forget, we had indoor recess and all of the boys started circling around me, and I didn't really understand what was happening. And they were all whispering, and they got in a circle,

and they started screaming, put the fire out, put the fire out, put the fire out. And they took one of their winter coats, and they put it over my head, and they took the back, and they slammed me onto the ground. And I woke up, I assume, a couple minutes later, a minute later, completely concussed. Didn't know what happened, but I wake up

and I see all these boys laughing at me, like, we did it and all the girls are so consumed by the boys, so they don't want to stand up for me. And I remember just trying to play it off like I'm okay, but I completely blacked out, and this is in sixth grade. I then scurry kind of out of the room, and I go up to the hall monitor, and I just ask if I can go to the nurse.

And I told her what happened, and she let me lay down, and then she was like, you're fine. And I was like, yeah, I'm fine, I'm fine. I go back to class, and then I remember experiencing concussion symptoms and telling no one. And I went home that night, threw up, didn't know what was going on with me. I just got the shit beaten out of me,

the back of my skull is in so much pain. And it was just because of the color of my hair and the way I looked that it was physical retaliation. I then started to go into my bathroom at night and be staring at myself like, how can I fucking change this? What can I change about myself to survive? Because it was every fucking day. It just was so sad, and this is what I talk about

in the documentary, not as in-detailed because there was only so much time, but a lot of my young formative years, I became so good at hiding myself. I could spot when someone was going to physically either bully me or come at me verbally. And so I would change the conversation or I would pull myself back

and talk about one of my friends about how cute and funny they were. So everything was to try to mitigate the damage of someone trying to come at me. And I had this down to a fucking science. I would wear X amount of socks per day because I had to wear these skirts and my legs were so small.

Were you boarding at this school? So no, that's high school. So middle school was this Catholic school, grew up very Catholic, church every Sunday. I can imagine myself being in that situation and not telling my family. Were you sharing this? My parents had no idea.

Why do you think you weren't telling them? One, because of the embarrassment. And then two, I think because at home, I really was so different. My parents allowed me to express myself. My parents thought my hair was the most beautiful thing and they always would compliment me and I started to resent it because I'm like, little do you know, it's literally the pain

of my life. I want to shave my head. I hate myself so much. I think the middle school days of my life were the hardest where I really started to disconnect from telling my parents a lot. And that made it really isolating. And it always makes me cry when my parents were moving out of their house and I was finding journals

years ago while they were packing stuff. And it was just the darkest thoughts. Not that I had suicidal, genuine thoughts. It was more, I wrote basically like, if I did take my own life, would then these boys know. Learn a lesson. Yeah. Did you ever ask if you could dye your hair?

It was the summer going into high school and I had the most anxiety. I was like, I cannot go to this new school. And so partly why I chose a school that really no one from my middle school was going to was I wanted to start over and it had the best soccer program on the East Coast. So I ended up asking my mom that summer,

can I please dye my hair? And just like highlights. And it was so minimal, but it made such a difference. She didn't put up a fight. My mom was so supportive and the hairdresser, those moments where she was like, don't touch this gorgeous red hair. And I was like, bitch, I'm about to fucking kill myself.

Dye this shit. I can't take another minute. The sad thing I look back on though, is I then just kept going and it got blonder and blonder and blonder. And I look back at pictures of myself specifically in college and I just lost myself. I really tried to become this girl

that I always envied in middle school, the blonde girl and the tan. I'm a redhead with pale skin and I have freckles. And a sensitivity to anesthetic. Yes, yes. I tried to change everything about myself and I took it way too far. The hair was platinum, the extensions, all of it.

And I never wanted anyone to know who I really was. And so that was really fucking depressing. When you were in college and you looked in the mirror and you were my color skin and the black and blonde hair, were you like, I fucking did it? Were you proud of yourself in that moment? I did the thing I needed to do for myself. And also were boys now into you?

Yes, it was split. It was, oh my God, I did it. This is so fucking dumb. How different I'm being treated because of the way I look. On the other hand, I felt like a poser. You betrayed yourself a little bit? Yeah, I have paint on my body and dye in my hair. This isn't who I am.

Well, and if you dated people, I imagine you're waiting for them to find out who you really are and for it to be over and living with the fear that they're gonna discover who you really are. They're like, she's this hot platinum blonde. And meanwhile, oh, I was like, you guys. Why are your roots?

No, your roots are red. I was standing in a boyfriend literally looked at the top of my head and he was like, wait, why are your roots? And I hadn't got them done. And I was like, the hairstylist messed it up. I just would fully make up crazy stories. And then it became bigger than me. And I remember when I started to get publicly known for my job, I was so terrified that kids from middle school would release photos. and they did.

And I remember that day, and it's a picture that was just so god-awful, and I was mortified. But then it kind of forced me to be like, all right. Everyone knows. The gig's up, and I look back now, and I can at least acknowledge, although I wish I could take the pain away from, I should have never had to go through certain things I did.

I remember getting headbutt by this kid at recess and I again passed out really aggressive things that these boys were doing. I had to find ways to love myself and it took a really fucking long time and that's okay. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. Keep people and pets safer. Always keep your dog on a leash in public. Learn more at toronto.ca slash leash your dog. A message from the City of Toronto.

This is Nick. And this is Jack. We're best friends, ex-finance guys, and resident 90s experts. And every week on our podcast, The Best Idea Yet, we're bringing you the untold stories behind your favorite products. For instance, can you guess which billion dollar fashion company went viral thanks to a rhinestone covered tracksuit? Or which cartoon turned four turtles into a global toy empire by accident?

It started as a joke. Last one, which cold beverage was so hated by Starbucks, they actually ended up acquiring it. Spoiler, the Frappuccino. Howard Schultz apparently thought cold coffee was super lame, and then he bought it. From Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles to Juicy Couture to the Orange Mocha Frappuccino. Join us every week to learn how your favorite things got made. Follow the best idea yet on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts and you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondry

Plus. And if this podcast lasts longer than 45 minutes, call your doc. Simultaneous to this all happening, you're starting to get very prolific in your basement, making videos and green screen and learning to edit. And you're obviously living the life you want to be living in your basement. And I do wonder if you were celebrated and embraced and at every party and making out with a dude on the back of his motorcycle,

would we be in the basement doing all that? Because of how horrible my personal social life was, filming videos and creating was the one really safe space where I didn't care because the only people that were seeing my videos were my best friends and my parents. So I was fine with my hair and I was fine with my skin and I would do closeups of my face,

even though I was breaking out or my braces. You have control. Yeah, and I loved it. I really felt so happy there, and I hated going to school so much. So whenever I got home, I just ran down to the basement, turned on the camera, started filming. But then even as one of my Instagram stories, I posted something of my best friend Lauren and I,

but I put it in black and white a few years ago. Because I didn't want people to know. Not recently. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, there's such deep wounds. It gets laughable, especially when you're my age. You're like, wow, didn't want people to know. I still, yeah. Wow. Yeah, there's such deep wounds. It gets laughable, especially when you're my age. You're like, wow, we're still dealing with something

that lasted for 18 months. It actually becomes physically learned behaviors. It almost was like, I couldn't stop. I just got better and better and better at it. That it would be weird to stop hiding myself. Even when I started Call Her Daddy, I was like, this is the bitch I wish I could have been my whole life. I was getting to do and be this person

that when I was younger, I wasn't at all. So really interesting. It was like a big dichotomy. How did it impact your relationship with boys and men? Were you always chasing approval? Yes, but almost in a weirder, sadistic way. Did you want to punish them? Kind of.

Yeah. Because I have never had a hard time making female friends. That was the thing that filled me up the most. I always felt so comfortable around women, being on soccer teams, filming with my best friends. I love female friendships. And because the boys were the aggressors

that were coming towards me, I always was physically scared of them, mentally scared of them. They never wanted to touch me. I remember my first kiss. Everyone made jokes about, oh, she's not even good at kissing. Everything I did sexually or physically was scrutinized.

So I really felt like I couldn't be myself and explore my sexuality because I hated myself. And then when I finally got to a point where I changed my hair and changed my skin, boys were drooling over me. And I was just like, oh, I fucking hate you. Yeah. Fuck you.

Because I've been the same person. I just look different, same personality. And then I think when I got to college, it really turned because it became this fun game to me where I was like, who can I get next? And that's when I started dating professional athletes because I was like, these are men that get everything handed to them and I'm going to be the one memorable thing

that they can't get and they can't get and they have to work for. And it was all just about me. Once I got it, then I was like, oh my God, I did it. Fuck you, I played the game. And then it was like, oh. And then you're done with them. Also, it's the proverbial jock.

It's so. It's so classic. Yeah, it's classic. Who are the cool people in high school now that I'm in college? Well, I guess they're professional athletes. It's also hard being in a public situation, talking about it.

I also am not looking for any sympathy. It's more, I really felt like it was time to share because it is polar opposite to the persona that I have shown the entire time of my career, this confident woman who's explaining how to get the guy. And I thought it was important to show people I haven't always been that way. Oh, I think so.

And that part of me, I'm so grateful for now. I can actually genuinely say I'm so fucking happy that I wasn't one of those people that had it all in middle school and was the cute girl in middle school because it really informed a lot of my personality. I love who I am. Yeah, I would argue you're obligated to.

In the same way that Krista and I have always felt obligated to go like, oh no, no, we're a couple of serpies. It's hard, we didn't do well, we hate each other. That's not the thing in the commercial. You have some obligation, I think, to share that side of it. But let's talk about soccer for a second because also you had said on the airplane

that you were a good soccer player, and I'm only left to guess what that means. Alex is a fucking bonkers soccer player. There's some shots and the announcer is even calling out, oh my God, that was a Beckham-esque shot. She fucking kicks from, I don't know, 60 feet back. It goes way up over everyone, just tucks in under the thing. I'm like, oh, that bitch can fucking kick a soccer ball.

You were great. Oh my God, thank you. And that I'm assuming, in addition to the basement and the videos, this is another place where it's a meritocracy. It's not arbitrary. There's real rules and if you do X, Y, and Z, you will be acknowledged as such.

And team sports, you have a built-in community, people who need you and you need them. It's so important. Soccer was the love of my life. From a very young age, my parents tried to have me do every sport. And I was like, fine, I'll try everything, but I'll do it.

And if I don't wanna do it, I can go back to soccer, right? And they're like, yes, but we just think you should try. I tried every single sport, played once, got out. I did swim, gray, out, okay, back to soccer. I was just obsessed with it. And finally, my parents were like, yes, but we just think you should try. I tried every single sport, played once, got out. I did swim, gray, out, okay, back to soccer. I was just obsessed with it. And finally my parents were like, fine, just do soccer. And I leaned in and I give so much credit to my parents.

I traveled all around the world. I represented the United States in Russia. We went to Sochi. I played on a club sport and I did also my school soccer. And I just loved it so much. And again, it was all women. I felt so good. I didn't care about my body if I was out there

and I just had the best time and I was so competitive. And I get that from my dad. He played D1 hockey at Wisconsin. Yeah, my dad worked for the NHL. Philadelphia Flyers producer. So I grew up around these athletes and that was my dad's job. So athletics just in my household was the norm.

I never saw my dad at a nine to five normal job. We were going to stadiums and watching the players and he's producing the game and it was a really cool upbringing. But soccer was my thing. And it's so crazy because I remember it was my freshman year of high school. I was touring colleges.

At 13 years old, I'm trying to figure out where I'm going to college, and I will never forget, I toured Boston University, and my mom is from Boston, Lowell, Massachusetts. She told me all about Boston and how it was the best time of her life, and she loved living there. And so I really didn't know at that young of an age

in freshman year of high school where I wanted to go. I toured Michigan and New Miami and all these places. And Boston was it for me because they had a great film program. And the soccer I was very excited about. I also knew there were better soccer schools, but this one I was like, I'll get a full ride. And I also want to be able to have also

a little bit of a life. So this is perfect. And I couldn't have been more excited. And I had dealt with asshole male coaches my whole life. And a huge draw was that the coach was a woman. I was so excited. I had never been coached by a woman and back to the whole men were assholes to me my whole life.

I'm like, I'm gonna have it made in college. I finally look good. My coach is a woman. I've got all my girls at college, I'm gonna reinvent myself again. What are the first things and how long are you denying the signals before you start realizing there's something weird going on with this coach?

What were the soft starts? The female coach. Yeah, it's a heartbreaking story. It makes me really upset. It's really heartbreaking. It's very confusing when it is this slow burn because for context, having a full tuition scholarship, this woman owns you and you have to do everything she says.

My freshman year when she was speaking to all the freshmen, you want her attention because you wanna be the freshman that's the standout freshman. In the beginning of freshman year, everything felt fine. If anything, I was vying for her attention. I'm trying my hardest, I'm playing my hardest. I'm staying after if we need to pick up the water bottles,

I'm going the extra mile. And then I would say, towards the end of our fall freshman semester, I started to feel her just coming over to me at practice more and asking how I was doing. And I really genuinely thought that that was her deeming me, like, I'm going to invest in you. And this is all you can ask for.

That's what you want. Because she's the holder of your playing time and all of it. So freshman year, it was what I thought was normal. And then freshmen spring semester is a lot of training sessions. And I do remember her just really wanting to, let's really get ready for next season, come have a meeting with me. And that's when the one-on-one session started a lot. She was starting to really fixate on me.

And I, again, was just like, this is great to anyone that didn't play sports, in especially college. I had six girls in my grade. So as much as we're all best friends, you're competing. You didn't really share too much information at that time

with your teammates because everyone's competing in a way. So sometimes I wouldn't tell my teammates that she asked for a one-on-one. What are the nature of the one-on-ones? You also don't wanna make them jealous. Or they're just gonna hate you if you're the coach's pet. The first beginnings of one-on-ones were a mix of lightly talking about my soccer abilities and then just asking

me about myself. And again, I just thought she's trying to get to know me and she wants me to feel comfortable here. And then sophomore year, everything changed. My freshman summer going into sophomore year, a lot of girls stayed in Boston to train because August comes and you've got to be in the best shape of your life. And she would come around during training sessions in summer and it felt different since school was out of session. It felt more like we weren't in school. It felt like anything could happen. Camp vibes. Yeah, everyone's acting a little less professional. She would come around

more and I definitely noticed her continuously like, hey, Coop, come talk to me over here. And I'm like, but it's summer. I don't have to. Why do I have to keep fucking talking to you? All the girls are going to the guys' frat party. I want to go and I'm having to stay back. And sophomore year started and that's really when I started to interact with more guys. She was getting wind of me starting to date men.

And I will never forget, I got dropped off. Sorry, I'm like shaking. I haven't said this story. Well, let's acknowledge this because you and I talked about this. I have had the experience where I get to share my thing, but I get to edit it and I get to be in control of it. And then ultimately it goes out into the wilderness.

And so this is a big part of the doc and it's going out into the wilderness and it's scary. So sophomore year, I'm getting dropped off by this guy that I was seeing and my assistant coach saw me. You're allowed to, like all these girls are sleeping off campus. Some of these girls live with their boyfriends

and I get called in for a one-on-one. And I'm like, what could this be? And at this point, the one-on-ones are starting to get so often. We don't talk about soccer anymore. She's just talking to me about my personal self. I'm definitely starting to get more uncomfortable. This is excessive. And now my teammates are starting to recognize

and starting to be like, what do you guys talk about? And still, though, there was a jealousy element. People being like, why do you get talk about? And still though, there was a jealousy element. People being like, why do you get so many one-on-ones? Because people would ask for one-on-ones and she'd be like, we can talk in a week and a half. And I'm in there almost every other fucking day. And so I go in and this was the one moment that I vividly remember feeling so out of body.

I walk in having no concept of what we're gonna talk about and she says, I heard that you got dropped off by a guy this morning. And I'm like, yeah. Yeah, that's right. And she goes, I don't know if you should be sleeping off campus, Alex. And I'm like.

What are you supposed to say? The only answer is that's none of your fucking business and you can't say that. My only relation to this woman was her telling me what to do and then me doing it. So even that, I'm a little like, oh, I in my body knew this was the first line. And then I said, coach, all the other girls sleep off campus

with their boyfriends. And then she looked at then I said, coach all the other girls sleep off campus with their boyfriends. And then she looked at me and said, did you have sex last night? What? Now really quick, if I try to imagine this experience for a while, I'd be like, am I imagining something's crazy? Some part of me at that question would go like, right, I'm not nuts.

I now know what this is. Or you already knew what it was. I don't know if you were able to step outside of it. No, I think what was so frustrating and I think that's why it's so hard to talk about it is because I was so beholden to this woman and anything she told me to do, I had to do. And this was the thing I worked my entire life to get to.

So I just kicked into fight or flight survival mode where in 30 minutes I have to go on the field and this woman is gonna tell me what to do. And it's in front of all of my best friends and my peers and my teammates who I respect and I want them to respect me. So I'm really trying to downplay it in my head and I'm trying to compartmentalize.

I am a more outgoing person, and I'm trying to justify anything that I can to suppress it and make it okay and normal. Yeah, deescalate it. I couldn't tell you what I said. I blacked out so hard in that moment. I think a lot of times I tried to divert the conversation, so I'd be like, wait, did we know if Holy Cross is there a striker still? And I would just start

talking about soccer and she would meet me back with Alex. And these meetings, you're alone. It's just horrible. I literally felt like I was in this cage and I didn't know what to do other than sit and be quiet and listen to her. I started to try to get a little bit, as I got older, just a little bit more, not stern, but I'm not gonna engage in this. And then she stopped playing me. I'll add, she would do the film playback,

as you do in all sports, and she would pause moments to talk about someone's move, and then she would do these long sessions where all she would talk about is how Alex looks, and how graceful she is. Break her down physically. That film session, I think, was the moment my teammates all started to really notice it,

but of course couldn't speak up, because they also are on scholarship and they're trying to fight for their playing time. The film session, I think, was the first really obvious moment to my teammates. This is inappropriate. What's interesting is she's losing control. Because she's doing it publicly.

Yes, that's a fascinating part. She's on some crazy arc, right? She couldn't help herself. And she was satiated with just sitting with you for a while, but then she needed to up that and then it was this. And now she's right? She couldn't help herself. And she was satiated with just sitting with you for a while, but then she needed to up that. And then it was this. And now she's losing control of this whole thing herself. And it was all on her time.

Give her more attention, indulge her, more playing time. She told you not to live with your roommate. She kicked your roommate off the team. It was all isolation tactics. And that session, I barely played. And when you're in film sessions, It's all isolation tactics. And that session, I barely played. And when you're in film sessions, you're going over the biggest plays of the game

or the pain points or where did it break down. And she put me in for like three fucking minutes at the end of a half. I didn't score, nothing happened. No reason to be talking about me. And she pauses it multiple times. Everybody look at Alex, look at her hair. You can't not notice her on the field.

Look how blonde her hair is. Look at her skin. I would always talk about how I would wear my shorts. Like the detail. I tried so hard in these moments to be strong in front of my teammates because I wanted to be a leader. And I remember getting back into my locker room and that was one of the moments

because it was just a really hell of a week with her. And I sat down, and I just had tears streaming down my face sitting in my locker. And all of my teammates, individually or collectively in groups throughout the 30 minutes, because then we had to go out to practice, were like, Cooper, what the hell? What is going on?

I'm so sorry. That was so inappropriate. My captains came up to me. And so that was the first big moment. But then it continued. We're outside, we're playing a game where you have to kick the soccer ball far and then you trap it.

And she goes, wait, before we start this training session though, there's one rule. Whoever gets Alex on their team, you have to go below her neck because we wouldn't want to mess up her money makers. Those teeth are her money makers. And everyone in practice would just be like, okay.

And I'm standing there, humiliated, disgusted, isolated. So this went on and on and on and on and on. And I think I started to just give up on soccer. There's one moment that's really so fucking wild to watch, which is she's punishing you, she won't play you, she puts you in at one point, you score the goal, and there's a press conference afterwards, and you and presumably the other player who had scored are there and the coach is there. And she's furious because you are having sex with a boy

and that's why she was punishing you and you score this goal. And she will not say Alex's name. She'll say like, we got lucky with one of the scorers and then her body language. She's not a coach. She is someone embroiled in this insane fantasy about you. You can see my face when I get handed the microphone,

I am trying to downplay it because when I would get attention and it wasn't how she decided, she would become very enraged and it was all on her time. Because it was a really, really strange case of sexual harassment where it was attraction and resentment. I think that's common. Yes, and the resentment aspect was so heavily dictating my ability to play soccer. And so it was this push and pull where I never knew when I was going to be on the field or off.

Doing the thing you had committed your life to. You have been working at this for 10 years and you're at the place that you were working to get. And now it's this horrendous experience that you can't escape. I think one of the most twisted things and I lightly talk about it in the documentary was it was my junior year

and that's when I was probably at the peak of my game. I was really doing well. Now I knew what was going on. I called home since my freshman year and my mom would just take notes. She was writing it all down. Cause being someone in the field of therapy, my mom would just chronicle, I'm in it.

But she was able to read back from freshman year down and she's like, Alex, this is getting out of hand. She could see the escalation. Because of the dynamic I'm explaining with my teammates, I really only confided in one of my teammates, and her name happens to also be Alex. And Alex was aware of what was going on. And no one else really knew the deep, deep details,

but everyone knew. Every single person, if you walked up to them and said, what is Alex and coach's relationship, they would say, something is so off. Coach treats Alex different than every other player on this team. That is a fact. And we finish after our season and I had the best season ever. It was after that goal and everyone's like, you're getting captain.

And my mom's like, just be prepared. And I will never forget, I'm sitting in my dorm room and my roommate and best friend Alex goes for her one-on-one to finish the year. And Alex was a good player. She wasn't the best player. She wasn't the worst. She was incredible at fitness. She always won fitness tests. And she goes in and my coach just says, you're done. You're off the team. And Alex is like, I've never had a warning. What do you mean I'm off the team? And she said, you're done. You can keep your scholarship though, which means something is wrong. Because if she did something wrong, you can take away her scholarship and get her off the team. This girl gets to walk on campus with a scholarship and she's

not gonna have to play soccer. So you're acknowledging something's off. They handed her a garbage bag and she calls me from the locker room sobbing. And I remember I dropped to the floor and I have a panic attack because I realize, one, oh my God, my poor friend, how is this girl who has also worked her whole life fucking collateral in this horrible situation? The guilt I felt. Yeah, you have caused this somehow. This was a complete isolation tactic.

No one knew the detail except for Alex. And she just pulled the one person away that knew everything. Yeah. And so I go in for my one-on-one and she puts me on probation. I have like a three, five GPA at this point. I have done nothing but Excel and soccer.

And mind you, there are girls on my team who have been sent to the hospital to get their stomach pumped from drinking and they got a slap on the wrist and I'm getting probation. She says, do you see what I did to your friend Alex? Oh my. This is like a horror movie at this point.

She says, you're gonna live with who I want you to live with. Stop. You're going to do exactly what I say. And if you don't hit all of those things I just handed you, then we're gonna have a hard problem here, Alex. I mean, I'm like, I thought I was coming in here to get captain. How is this happening? And when you look at the probation letter,

what makes me sick is there was nothing tangible that I could hit. It was all to her discretion. And one of them was, and it makes me so emotional, that reason I was on probation is I missed one of my night classes. So many kids missed more classes. And the reason I missed that night class was because the week before was when she started to insist that she drive me alone to my night class.

And I just... I just like, I couldn't do it. I just was like, I don't want to get in the car with that woman again. So I made up an excuse that I was sick and I didn't go and to see it on that probation, if you showed anyone that, they'd be like, well, you missed a class. And I'm like, but why did I miss specifically my night class? And I just remember feeling so sick to my stomach. This entire thing is just meant now to control me even more, to have more one-on-ones with me, to get me alone, to isolate me.

And I was just like, I can't do this anymore. Cause I knew it's going to get so much worse. This is going to be a living hell. And so I call my parents and my mom is like, we got to come up. It's time. It's time. So my parents come up and we request a meeting with the Dean of Athletics. And we go in for this meeting and my mom brings the entire notebook, all of the harassment that I had endured. It's a beast of a folder. It's insane.

This woman takes notes, okay? We say my daughter has been being sexually harassed by Nancy Feldman since her freshman year here on this campus and it has now gotten so bad to the point where she is threatening basically our daughter's scholarship if she doesn't abide by more of her rules, and this has gotten so out of hand, we need your help.

And in that moment, I was so sad that it had come to this point. I don't want to be doing this. I never wanted to meet the Dean of Athletics. I don't want to be in this position, but I knew in order for me to continue playing, I couldn't play for this woman anymore, and she couldn't be my coach.

She couldn't control herself anymore. Yeah. And my mom is like, I've written down every single thing, here you go. And he won't open the book. No. He doesn't ask any questions. He sits in silence, and then he just looks at me

and says, what do you want? That should be obvious to you, what I want. Right, and I, what I want. Right. And I said, I want to keep playing soccer. I want to play my senior year with my teammates and what I've worked my entire life for. I want to play, but I can't keep being sexually harassed by this woman. I need to be protected.

I need you guys to help me. And they say, well, we are not getting rid of Nancy Feldman. She is a decorated coach here. She had been the only coach who had come through that organization at the time for women's soccer. She had plaques all over the university. She was celebrated. She was decorated. And they said, we will not be getting rid of her. So you can keep playing or you don't need to play and you can keep your scholarship. Oh my God.

And after a pretty short meeting, I said, I guess then I can't play soccer anymore. And you all win. And I'm going to leave and I'll keep my scholarship. And that's that. I left with my parents that day and I got in the car and I had a breakdown and I was crying and I remember feeling so angry. And I found out through a teammate that the next day Nancy went, hey everyone just wanna let you know

Alex Cooper's no longer on the team, not sure why she quit, but she quit and she left you guys. So that's up to her and said something along the lines of hoping no one else would quit because what a fucking sore loser. Oh boy. But they all knew. They knew, but again, it's like back to work. Also to what

degree did they know? Do they know she's driving her to her night classes? No. There's so many terrible fallouts from all of this, but one of the hardest fallouts was how many friends I lost. I didn't blame them and I know they didn't blame me, but it became really hard to maintain these friendships when they're trying to continue to play for this woman. And they're feeling some guilt about that, I'm sure. And they can't stand up. Yeah, look what happened.

They have to turn a blind eye. And the notion that you were made to quit. Yes. When you're defining yourself by someone who doesn't quit, does the extra thing, and now you've been put in a position where you have to quit. I really tried to repackage myself and pretend like I was okay.

I really didn't want them to think I was hurting, so I was social and I was trying to just pretend. But internally, I was broken and I was devastated. I reconnected with one of my teammates. We met in Santa Monica and she just broke down crying and she was just like, I think we all knew, but we were so scared. Yeah.

And we all had to protect ourselves. So many of these girls are on scholarships. This is their livelihood. So everyone's out for themselves. But it was validating a little bit as time has gone on to hear that from my teammates. We kind of knew, I didn't know the extent and I know this is gonna come out

and I'm gonna get reached out to again cause I still didn't even share the full extent. Listen, how well do 40 year olds in a workplace deal with this kind of thing? And these are like all 20 year old. That was something that I carried for a really, really long time. I had met with a lawyer before I went in

with the Dean of Athletics. He said, you have a full sexual harassment case, but do you wanna be the girl on campus suing? And he said, I know you said you wanted to go into the entertainment business. This is something that's gonna follow you for a very long time. These people will drag this out.

This is not your senior year and done. This is years of a potential lawsuit. It may affect you getting a job. It may affect a lot of parts of your life. And I wanted to sue because there was the part where I was like, I need something. Like I need justice. I also need my teammates to see.

How else are you going to stop it as well? Yeah. A lawsuit probably ends in a more dramatic response from the school. I don't know the right answer. And as time has gone on, it has weighed on me. Would I have done something differently? And I don't think I would have because I'm so fortunate that now I have a platform where I'm now about to speak about this.

But the thing that really gets me is I am so aware of my privilege. I am a white privileged woman who has a platform. I have money. I have resources. I have power. And I'm still scared to tell this story. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I think about this all the time.

I talk about having been molested quite openly. I've never said the person's name. I battled this thing like, has my unwillingness to do that resulted in this person having more victims? Did they grow out of that? I definitely wrestle with that. It is hard and now it's exactly almost a decade later that this happened. And if I'm scared to talk about this,

can you imagine a woman who doesn't have my privilege? How the fuck is anyone feeling comfortable to talk about this? Because to clarify again, I was no one when this happened to me. I had nothing. I had supportive parents, but I didn't have a platform. I didn't have money.

And I came forward and I got denied. I was failed. I went to the athletic director, told him about this, and he basically told me to fuck off. He wouldn't even read it. So who am I to say, come forward? It didn't work. It didn't work.

And the fact that that athletic director is still there to this day, is she still there? So she retired. And I'll say this, which I didn't say in the documentary, why I decided to come forward with this is, this documentary was actually really meant for me to just show the behind the scenes of my tour and how I got to where I am,

because the tour monologue in the beginning that I do is about my rise. The director was like, I want to bring your childhood in and show the rise of you. And when I opened in Boston, which was very symbolic, my tour, the director, I had lightly told her about my soccer experience.

And she knew that I wasn't sure if I wanted to share it with her. And so she said, can you do me a favor? Can we just go back to the field and let's see what it brings up for you? We never have to use the footage. You never have to tell the story, but let's just go. And I was reluctant because I was just like,

I don't know if I want to do all this. I'm also very aware I don't want this to come off as a victimhood story from someone that's privileged. I was like, ugh. And so we go back, and it's the first time that I saw Nickerson Field is what it's called. And I remember getting there and stepping foot on that field, and I felt so small. I remember getting there and stepping foot on that field.

And I felt so small. I felt like I was right back in it. And I've done years of therapy. And you're on top of the world. I mean, you currently are, and then you're immediately transported back to that old person. This still is so painful and lives in me.

And I just started crying. And that was the first, because there's two, that was the first moment where I was like, I think I got to talk about this. Because conversation has been the power in my life since starting Call Her Daddy. And it's how I've healed a lot of things. I've healed things with other people.

And this is the one thing I'm like, I'm a fraud. How can I not talk about this? I got to go there. And this is the one thing I'm like, I'm a fraud. How can I not talk about this? I gotta go there. ["The Daily Show Theme"] Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert. If you dare.

["The Daily Show Theme"] There's nothing relatable about you signing a deal. It's serious. No. There's nothing relatable about you with this fucking gorgeous stud, Matt, as a husband. None of that sues anyone. about you signing a deal with Sirius. There's nothing relatable about you with this fucking gorgeous stud Matt as a husband. None of that sues anyone.

This is the real shit. This is what the point is. So many people sadly have versions of this story and are not their own boss and have a platform and can't. So I think on behalf of all those people, it's so beautiful that you're talking about and doing it. Yeah, it's not because you're gonna encourage someone to stand up in some way.

It's to say, she's done it, she talked about it, she's still alive, and in fact, she's still thriving. And you go, fuck, maybe I could unburden myself a little bit. And people still like me. You brought people some hope, I think. That was the true catalyst of, holy shit, I talk to people every week about their trauma and things they've gone through,

and I've been so open on my podcast, but this thing, I was so nervous to talk about it because one, retaliation, when you come out and I'm naming her name, and I don't know what she's gonna do, and I'm naming her name and I don't know what she's gonna do but I'm ready for that now and it took me 10 years. Yeah, and a war chest.

Yeah, yeah. And so I think retaliation was one thing where I'm like, I don't know what Boston University and she are gonna do but I'm ready. I think the other part was I was very anxious to tell this because it's so emotional and personal to me that I don't want it to be up for public fodder. But you're gonna find out that those opinions

aren't coming your way. Also, if it does, it will be matched with so many people giving you so much gratitude. I don't even think it's gonna happen. Well, the internet's gross, so potentially. I know what happened, and I'm so proud of myself for telling this story. I could have made it a docu-series.

There's so much more to this, but I really think it is such a huge part of why I am the way I am and why I have the conversations I do on my podcast. And I think people are a little dumbfounded of how I steered it a certain way after all the sex and relationships. I'm like, to my core, I think people are a little dumbfounded of how I steered it a certain way after all the sex and relationships. I'm like, to my core, I have a story within me that I've never been able to share.

And if anything, I give back to all of my guests who have shared with me because I genuinely believe they have been what has allowed me now to be in the chair being like, okay, I'm gonna finally tell this. But the other side of it was, and this I didn't share in the chair being like, okay, I'm gonna finally tell this. But the other side of it was, and this I didn't share in the documentary because I was like, this is a other part of it,

but in the middle of filming the documentary, more information came to light. And I got involved with the NWSL and I'm so excited. It was like a reclaiming moment for myself. Is that the soccer? The National Women's Soccer League. And that was this beautiful moment where I got to re-engage and go back to soccer and how cool that it's with my hydration drink and I'm the Hydration

League sponsor. And it was such a full circle moment for me to be like, wow, I can come back to the thing I love. And it was very emotional even just going to these games. I'm meeting some of the legends of the sport, Abby Wambach and Bernie Chastain. But the first game of their opening season I went to and I reconnected with a former teammate who plays professionally. And I gave her a heads up about the documentary. And I was just like, I just wanted you to know,

I know you were a senior when I was a freshman, but this is what's happening. And she was like, Cooper, I'm so fucking sorry. You know, it's still happening, right right and I just remember the whole field went dark and I just felt again so small because you try to convince yourself it's just you you rationalize like maybe it was just me they're not gonna keep doing it and when I was at BU Nancy Feldman was the head coach and there was an assistant coach at the time who was my assistant coach at the time who was my

assistant coach. And she watched the harassment. They'd be in chairs like this. Most of the time it was one-on-ones, but there were a few times where my assistant coach was in the room. And I vividly remember a meeting that was getting uncomfortable. And I turned to her and I said her name and I said, help, please help me. And she physically turned her head away. She went on to become the head coach at BU

and she just did the same thing, if not worse, to another woman on that campus. Of course, if you look up online, it says she resigned and she is now able to go and coach at any university. And I spoke to the player. It was a really hard conversation to hear that this is systemic. She watched Nancy have no-

Consummification. Nothing. And she got to leave there, her pictures are on the walls, she's retired, she's living life, she's a legacy. So why the fuck would the assistant coach not follow right in her footsteps and do the same goddamn thing? There's not a public statement of all the people

came forward and this is what happened and this is what this coach did, nothing, she resigned. And that was the moment in the middle filming the documentary where I called the director and I said, I'm ready. Oh wow. I'm ready to sit down and tell the story because it's no longer about me.

It's gonna keep going on. My heart just breaks because speaking to victims, again, I'm so aware of my privilege and as uncomfortable as it is for me to tell the story because it's so not who I am public facing. I wish I could have been like, of course no one could do that to me because I'm Alex fucking Cooper

and I'm gonna tell you to go fuck your, like, no, it happened to me. Yeah. It did. Systems can be more powerful than people. I remember saying to my mom the other day, before this comes out, I just feel like everything I do on Caller Daddy, I want to always end it on a high note or a purpose

or a call to action. And I was like, mom, I don't know what to tell people. I don't have the answer. To every victim listening or watching, I know the fear of speaking up and not being believed or being denied and then losing everything. And I also know the fear of now not speaking up and losing yourself.

Yeah, it's a lose-lose. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. I sat with that athletic director and explained this abuse of power and they basically looked at me and said, tough shit. And for it to continue to happen, now I knew that's when I'm like, all right, let's fucking go

because this is not just happening on college campuses for NCAA, it's everywhere. It is in the workplace, it is in relationships. And when people are so confused, why didn't she do this or why didn't she do that? When there is an abuse of power, it is a ton on top of that victim. You have to climb Mount fucking Everest and more

to even feel like you have a sliver of a fucking hope to be believed and actually be protected if you come forward. Because my story is, I came forward and I was failed. So why the fuck would anyone come forward? Right. It's an impossible situation for people. I hate that.

Like, well, why didn't they just quit? Because they've spent their whole life trying to get to that point. They're almost there, and you're picking your life or theirs. Why did you stay in a work environment where your boss was sexually harassing you? Because it's my livelihood. Yeah, exactly.

Because they're paying my bills. They're handing out jobs at 7-Eleven. Yeah, good for you. Yeah. It's a lot. I am very grateful that you made that decision because that was an incredibly compelling and heartbreaking part of the story that is the reality.

Yeah. I was just thinking, I'm sure I can't imagine what your parents felt like, the level I would want to kill somebody over that kind of stuff. It's a lot and I think it definitely had a lot of effects on me after college. I had such a difficult relationship to my body and working out. I could not step on a treadmill because I just had this visual of we would always be in lines on treadmills and she would just stand at my fucking treadmill

and watch me run. And I loved running. I was fast, I loved it. And so to this day, I don't get on the treadmill because I can't. There's those little things. And then on top of that, when I went out into the workplace

before all of Coloradadian had jobs, I found myself, which is not my personality, but I found myself trying really hard to just blend in. And it wasn't even conscious. I was just making sure that I wasn't standing out. You did not want to be someone's pet again. And it was hurting me. It's the girl with the red hair who had to blend in.

And then you escaped that, and then you had to blend in for the opposite reasons. It keeps coming back. It's coming back. It's so true. Never feeling completely good in my skin. That's been a theme in my life. I can say it now because it's not as much

what Call Her Daddy is, but at the beginning days, I did start to resent the character that I was building on Call Her Daddy when it was just about sex and relationships and I had a co-host. Of course, a lot of it was true, but I was enjoying playing this fantasy character in my head, and it was doing something to my ego and my confidence

that was building me up because I loved that I could re-engage with my sexuality and own it in a way that I really suppressed in college around her. I felt disgusting. I felt horrible. I felt horrible. I just was creeped out and it just was awful. And so Call Her Daddy was really this beautiful moment where I poured everything into,

no one is gonna silence me again. There was also this drive of like, fuck you. I'm gonna get so fucking big and you are going to shit your pants every day that I'm gonna tell the fucking story. And I'm going to one day and I knew I was going to, it definitely took longer than I thought it was gonna take, but that's also life and everyone's gotta go

on their own timeframe and I'm still uncomfortable about it. I'm happy it's out there because I now know I really feel like this will become something in my life that I take on. Well the dream is you stop judging yourself for all the things. Pre, during, and post. You free yourself of that judgment.

Well, I do wanna say this. The doc also follows your tour, and I was thinking, this seems so natural for anyone on the outside. If they're a fan of yours and they listen to your show and you're very extroverted on the show and you're confident on the show, they would just assume, well, of course you can go on stage

and do a stage show, but I was thinking watching this, this is an enormous fucking swing for you. I was a ground lean first, I was on a stage every Sunday doing comedy. And when we walk out, we have a whole routine. I have to dial into the music and just be joyful about the music and then forget what's gonna happen next.

I've had a lot of stage experience. Yeah, so I totally admire that you're like, yes, we're gonna do this. That was the first time I'd ever been on stage. And we're gonna do it in a humongous theater and we're gonna do it with a bunch of production. But were you terrified? I was so nervous because in the school play,

we had Wizard of Oz and they made me a munchkin and I was in the back and you couldn't even see me. And I was like, I'm not meant to be on a stage. And then when this idea came, of course, I am such a crazy person and want to do everything tenfold. So I was like, it can't be a podcast tour. It needs to be theater and Broadway meets Vegas

and dancers and Magic Mike. And then when I got there at opening night, I was like, fuck me. What did I sign myself up for? I have no idea what I'm doing. But it was something that I like to push myself. I'm sure you're at this point in your career where it's like, just go for things.

And I was really proud of myself, but no, I definitely know my fans probably thought it was easy for me. I really struggled when I would get off that stage. Matt was always joking. He was like, I hope you don't get addicted to this. Cause you know how people love the like, the screen. Sure.

Get the bug. After night one, I turned him, I said, don't worry. I'm not addicted. I never want to do this again. Only because it was the most magical thing to do it with my fans. But the pressure I was putting on myself. It's just looming over you.

I would lay in bed all day, eat chicken fingers, and fucking meditate and call my therapist five times and be like, I'm gonna be okay, right? And when I was out there, I actually was enjoying it. But the minute I got off, I was like, I feel like the biggest introvert, take me home, and never let me do that again. It was truly one of the greatest experiences of my career,

and I don't regret it for a second, but it was the most challenging thing I've ever done. A last point I'll give is I have to give so much credit to my husband. I couldn't do the things I'm doing without his support. He is my biggest fan. He is there for me in every moment. And he makes it so much more enjoyable

than if I was doing it alone. Shout out, Matt, we love you. Yeah, you guys have a very, very good working relationship. I can relate, like some people go like, how do you work with? And I'm like, oh no, those are the easiest. The easiest, people think I'm insane when I say that. It's very lucky though,

if I think for most people they couldn't work together. Oh no, you'd be like, I'm gonna kill you. Every morning, Matt and I are brushing our teeth, we're like, oh man, how fun we get to like go to the office together. And everyone's like, you're both ill. I'm gonna kill you. Every morning, Matt and I are brushing our teeth. We're like, oh man, how fun we get to like, go to the office together. And everyone's like, you're both ill. I'm like, well, we like it.

We have fun. Have you seen her husband? I don't think so. Dax is in love with him. He's outrageously gorgeous. That's the first thing you said to Matt when you met him. The second I saw him at the airport, I immediately was like, oh my God,

you're so fucking gorgeous. And then I'm saying to you, good job. This guy's fucking gorgeous. And I think later I found out from him, he thought I was making fun of him. I'm like, oh my God, you're so fucking gorgeous. And then I'm saying to you, good job, this guy's fucking gorgeous. And I think later I found out from him, he thought I was making fun of him. I'm like, no, no, no, I sincerely, but here's what's crazy, Monica. It was deeper than just that.

Because now as I've become friendly with them on this trip, I start researching you both in my hotel room. And guess what I discovered? I know what you're gonna say. You already know. I think so. What? You both dated the same person?

Yes, you share an ex lover that I am obsessed with. And it's deeper than that. What? I then went, oh yes, yes, yes, I've totally seen him before, because the first time I ever saw her in real life, she was with him dating. Look at this fucking guy.

This guy has got it made. He's fucking gorgeous. Someone's like, yeah, he plays college football. I'm like, oh my God, this guy's a college football player. That's his girlfriend and he looks like that. I became more obsessed with him that day than her. And then I'm in my bed putting all this together. Like, oh yes, I've always been obsessed with this guy. I am obsessed.

No, your guy's love affair is adorable. She's in this room. I know, I see her behind you. No, it's really cute. And then I'm like, how do I now tell him tomorrow at breakfast, hey, I discovered this. I was researching you. And I'm obsessed with you, Matt.

He's such an interesting guy. He's so shy and reserved at first. And then once you get to know him, he gets more open. But I remember at first he was literally like, oh my God, I don't know what to say to that. I'm like, Matt, he thinks you're hot, take the compliment. He's like, okay. It's confusing for a lot of men to hear it, and women.

I get it too. I was like, well, you're assuming he feels as confident as he is visually, which no one is. And if someone came up to me, I was like, God, you're so fucking horny. Yeah, okay, dude. What is this about? Or you think they're trying to assert some sort of power to anything, I would feel like that.

I was just trying to bow to the beauty. I mean, he deserves it. He deserves it. That is amazing. What a honk. Well, I love the doc. I think it's so good. I don't think you should be nervous at all.

I think everyone's gonna really love it. You debut at Tribeca. Tribeca. Tribeca Film Festival on June 8th, and then it comes out June 10th on Hulu. Which is now your second project you'll have at Hulu. You also have a dating show. Yes, we have a dating show that we're actually

about to start filming in Malta. And I just picked the cast. It's been so fun to cast a dating show because I'm such a dating whore. And I'm like, oh my God, I love these shows. So to get to watch tapes and interview people and see who they are, I know multiple of these people. I'm like, your life is gonna change.

You're gonna be so famous. So it's very exciting. Are you hosting it? I'm not hosting it. We have a fun host that I can't announce, but it will be fun. And it's gonna be on a boat in Malta. I'm like, this is hot.

Great. It's a working title right now, but basically it's overboard for love, but they're all on a yacht. It's a working title right now, but basically it's Overboard for Love, but they're all on a yacht. It's gonna be hot. So yeah, Hulu. I'm a sucker for those shows. They're fun.

Well, listen, I think we'll both say we're super flattered to be peers of yours. Look how full circle. When we met at Spotify, we were like, and now we're like hugging and we're friends. I'm rooting, rooting, rooting, rooting. I'm rooting for you too. I'm so happy for you. Thank you guys.

Thank you for having me. Yes, this is so fun. Love you guys, thank you. Oh man, I cried. I sure hope there weren't any mistakes in that episode, but we'll find out when my mom, Mrs. Monica, comes in and tells us what was wrong. Hi.

Hi. How are you? I'm good, how are you? I'm good. My son's visiting. Yes, he is. And we have one of our big nights planned for tonight. What are you gonna do? We're gonna go with Eric and Nate.

Fine. To Morton's. Oh, and you're gonna have diarrhea. Smoked cigarettes. You're not gonna smoke cigarettes. Gonna talk on the phone at the table like a hard line, smoke cigarettes, drink, I guess, martinis're gonna have diarrhea. You're not gonna smoke cigarettes. Gonna talk on the phone at the table like a hard line, smoke cigarettes, drink, I guess,

martinis is what you drink. That's right. And then maybe some harness. Yeah, a little harness. But this night, sky's the limit because Kristen and Lincoln are out of town. They're in New York. Yeah.

And so it's me, Delta and Erin. We've dubbed it boys time. She in fact insisted that he call her a boy yesterday. Oh, okay great. It's guys time. Guys time, okay great. They're all out there, this is bro's time. A lot of bro's time going on.

But so I asked Carly, can Delta come over tonight so that I can go out to eat with the boys? Can she come hang at your house? And she was like, of course. And then Delta was immediately like, see if she, is it okay if I have a sleepover? So now they're having a sleepover, which everyone's excited about.

So it's guilt free for me to have the night entirely off. So I don't know where this night will take Erin and I because I do have light fantasies of us tackling all the hiking trails on the electric motorcycles. At night? At night, because it's illegal. Can you just like.

It sounds like a such an adventure. Just do the right thing, just watch TV. No, what about an enchanted motorcycle ride under the moonlight? Why can't you just do enchanted. In the deserted trails. Exactly, it's like you have this beautiful house, you have a theater room, you have all this stuff,

and it's not enough. Oh, it's enough. Now you're back to nature. There you go, it's not, I think it's in the right direction. It's back what we would do when we were broke. You could have just then done it and not had any of this stuff.

But I didn't have an electric motorcycle. It'd have to be a noisy endeavor in the past. But now we can do it quite peacefully. No one will be disturbed. And we could have a real adventure that few people have had. I'm just putting it out there. I don't even know that my son will be up for it.

My son gets nappy, you know? Yeah, he's a tired boy. He gets tired and he's on a different time zone. Yeah, true. Sorry if I'm grumpy. I have a big grievance. I don't know if I'm, like, I feel kind of bad airing it, but I also don't feel bad because this is really,

really bad. Oh wow. Like a month or two ago. Yeah. I booked a or two ago. Yeah. I booked a trip for Hawaii for July. Mm, by yourself? Ish, so like I booked it and the plan was that Ana was gonna come and that maybe some other people

would come and we'd turn into a thing. Yeah. But I also knew I didn't really know my July schedule fully and that I might have to cancel it. Yeah, what island did you pick? It was more about the hotel. Yeah, Oahu? It was, no, it was a Rosewood hotel.

I've never been. Okay. It looks beautiful. I've heard good, great things. So, you know, I pull it up, I book it, and now it seems that I will probably not be able to make that work. Well, definitely.

So I went to cancel it, I called. And they said, oh, you didn't book through us. And I was like, yes, I did. I went to the website and I booked it. Yeah. And I know it was, I'm like looking at pictures. What? And he was like, no, you booked through this. That's a travel agency. and I booked it. And I know it was, I'm like looking at pictures, what? And he was like, no, you booked through this,

that's a travel agency. And I was like, okay, well, regardless, can you cancel it? And he was like, well, you booked a non-cancellable room or reservation. And I was like, what are you talking about? First of all, the fact that this isn't even booked through you is majorly confusing to me. Secondly, what, like, I knew that I would,

might 50-50 chance have to cancel, so I know this was not clear. Yes, yes, yes. And so then I get ahold of this agency. I'm gonna add to confirm your frustration. I often go to look at a hotel and the first thing comes up and it says it, it's the name of the hotel. And then I go to it and then I'll just happen

to notice the web address and I'm like, wait, wouldn't it say blank.com? There's a lot of places that masquerade as the actual hotel. Yes. Exactly. Okay, so that's now what I'm thinking happened. I got kind of scammed because I then reached out to this travel agency,

which I guess is, I mean, it was booked, so it's not like a scam in that they just took my money, but still. Right. So I reached out and I said, hi, I need to cancel this reservation. They're saying it's non-cancellable. There's no way that was clear, mixed with, I feel certain I booked on the website.

So I don't know if this was parading as the website. And they said, yes, you booked through us and it is non-cancellable, but we'll try to advocate on your behalf with the hotel. And then they came back and said like, they can't do it. And I was like, oh my God. It's too much money for me not to be like. And also two months is plenty of time to cancel.

Exactly, I was like, are you kidding me? I understand a 24 hour cancel. I even maybe even understand like three days. I know. A month, fuck you. A month? Yeah, that's a fuck you. And change in advance mixed with the fact

that like this is shady, this whole thing is shady. This is a nice hotel, like do the right thing. I don't know, it really bothers me because they're like, I can't. And I'm like, well, you can, you just press cancel and you give me my money back. It's not an I can't situation. There's no walk on this computer.

Yeah, and I'm really freaking out. I bet. Because it's too much, it's like a lot of money. I can't go because we have work. It's like a lot of money. I can't go, because we have work. Yeah. No, that's insane. And no one should be getting that amount of money for doing nothing.

Exactly. And like, so they're stealing my money. They're just about to steal way too much money from me. You shouldn't even be able to sell a non-cancellable. Exactly, what is that? I mean, I hate the fucking airlines for the same reason. They'll give you like a credit

and it's impossible to use the credit. We all know it's impossible. Yeah. Yeah, how about this? You fucking refund shit when people can't use it. Or, okay, again, you're right. I get if it's like, you can't cancel within three days, five days even.

Two weeks you would accept in this case. In this case I would accept that. A month in change? So honestly this is a cautionary tale. And I mean, I'm maybe not gonna say it yet, but I might say it in the next fact check I haven't. The company, because really like everyone needs to be on the lookout for this, because I had, and I'm not a dumb, dumb.

If they offer one that's not cancelable, there should literally be a pop-up screen that says, are you sure you want to book a non-cancellable flight? Like, now, they make it clear when you buy an airline ticket. I appreciate that. You can do flexible rate. It's more, and then I'll go, if you get that charge of like,

am I really gonna commit to this? I'm not gonna change it. And I am a cheapskate. So I generally don't, I don't ever get the flex option. So I'm like, I'm just gonna stick to this fucking plan no matter what. But no hotel, I'm operating under the broad assumption that yes, of course you can cancel a hotel room. Yeah. But no, hotel, I'm operating under the broad assumption that yes, of course you can cancel a hotel room.

Yeah. And how about this? If they don't refund your money, they should have to send you a picture every day of that room being vacant. They should not be allowed to then sell it. Yeah. Like, okay, I'll keep it.

Send me a picture of my room every day. Cause if you put someone in there, then we don't have a problem. Yeah. Oh, that is frustrating. I'm so frustrated and I don't really know what to do. And I'm feeling like a level of anxiety around it that is hovering and, cause it feels very unjust.

Yes. And this, this should not matter at all. This should matter. It doesn't matter. But I do feel compelled to say that I stay at a Rosewood Hotel in New York a lot, also not a cheap hotel. So they have a lot of my money.

Do the right thing. Yeah, they know you're a valuable customer. Yes. And they will lose you, right? You wouldn't book again. Well, that's the thing, because I need they know you're a valuable customer. Yes. And they will lose you, right? You wouldn't book again. Well, that's the thing, because I need to book a trip to New York and I am like, I might not stay with this group.

And it's like, I don't know, I'm just, I don't know what to do. It's upsetting. It is upsetting. That would upset me greatly. Yeah, that's very frustrating. Yeah, thanks for understanding. I wonder if you'll feel better though

if we take electric motorbikes up the trail than I like renegade boys, bad boys. Oh no, you're gonna bring Frito? No, I've been watching a lot of Steve Bruhl again lately. Oh. For people who didn't watch Steve Bruhl, Free or Hell, spin-off of Tim and Eric, it's so good. So funny. Yeah, he goes to the prison and he says,

there's all the, he's talking to the warden, there are all these bad boys, y'all ready to spank them? He's like, well, we don't spank, y'all ready to spank their bottom cherry red? Oh, God. Ha ha ha ha. He's obsessed with bad boys and hunks. Yeah, of course. Steve Roar.

So cute. Of course he is. John C. Reilly. John C. Steve Ruhl. So cute. Of course he is. John C. Reilly. John C. Reilly. Put your hands together. That might be the deepest character I've ever seen in a comedy is John C. Reilly is Steve Ruhl. That's very funny.

And he mispronounces every word. He's talking to one doctor. He's like, doctor, doctor on sex. What is sex? The doctor starts telling him, he goes, okay, well, what about the apprentice? When do we put the apprentice? He calls him penis apprentice.

And he calls gambling, grambling. He mispronounces like every fifth word, it's so funny. Very funny. Okay, speaking of shows. Yeah. I came across a very sexy show. Okay. Recommended to me by a friend. I won't out very sexy show. Okay. Recommended to me by a friend.

I won't out her. Oh. Unless she gives me. That's a feather in her cap, whoever recommended it. I agree, I agree, I agree. But yeah, she asked me if I'd seen the show, and I should give it a try. Yeah.

It's called Tell Me Lies. I think people might know it. It's on Hulu. It's on Hulu. It's on Hulu. Yes, and it is so sexual. Like what are we talking about? There's a lot of scenes of fucking or a lot of flirting scenes or the whole package.

A lot of scenes, well both. Nude, a lot of nudity? Yeah, there's a lot of nudity. Like there are scenes where I'm like shocked we aren't seeing the vagina or the actual penis. Like we're seeing so much body that the fact that they're able to make it exactly covered right there is a feat.

It's a science. Yeah, it is a science. Anyway, it was very sexy. And it worked for you. It was working. very sexy and- And it worked for you. It was working. Because sexy stuff on TV always runs the risk of being very cheesy. I don't know if the show's good.

Sure, that's okay. That's not what you're there for. That's not why I'm there. Yeah. Yeah, I'm there for the sexiness. Like you don't care how the steak is at Long John Silver. Do you wanna know what the fish is like? Do you?

No, hush puppies. Sure. Yeah, I... What's the age group of the people that are fucking? Oh yeah, so it's set in college, that's another thing. It's set in college and it made me miss college so much. And did it make you think like, I wanna go back to college

and this time I'm gonna be a slut? Kinda. Yeah, that would be the fantasy. I miss college so much. And it'd make you think like, I wanna go back to college and this time I'm gonna be a slut. Kind of. Yeah, that would be the fantasy. I know. But you know, it's not me. Yeah, I know, like I wonder if I wouldn't even have the same nostalgia for that kind of thing

because like, I did do whatever I wanted. No, because it's not, that's not what's actually causing the nostalgia, like the sex, It's the like... Freedom? No, the excitement, like the first episode is their first day and they're moving in and it's just like, God, the life ahead.

The excitement of being on your own, but with your friends and you're protected, but you're dangerous. And you're going to friends and you're protected but you're dangerous and you're going to bars and you're going, oh. Yeah, you loved college. I just loved it. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. If you dare.

Yeah, for me it's different because A, by the time I got there, I was already older. Right. And then also I was, my mother gave me so much freedom. So I was already like traveling around the country, doing road trips and you know, I had so much freedom. Yeah. That like going away to college to me didn't represent freedom finally.

It's like I kinda had a lot of freedom. But it's a very specific kind of freedom that creates the euphoria. It's like going on spring break for four years. Yes, it is, it is. Because your freedom is your decision-making, but you still feel insolent. Well, at UGA you do, because it's very-

Go dogs. The campus go dogs. The campus is gorgeous, and it's like, it's not in a city, which I think is great. Like, I love that. It's very, it's its own thing, and there's a downtown, and it's just all bars and restaurants, and you're just, it's heaven.

It is so fun. You should move back to Athens. Athens, I would. And just. Live there. Yeah, just feel it. When I go back and I like walk the campus, I get so, I get so fluttery.

Yeah, that's nice. It's such a special place. Anyway, so it's set in college. I don't have that, yeah. I go back and I like it a lot. And I remember feeling, you know that I can't believe I'm here feeling when I was there, which that's a nice memory.

Of course, you're proud of yourself. Yes, I was proud of myself. I kind of almost couldn't believe I was there. I felt like they might sniff me out. And then Anthro was quite exciting. So I liked the intellectual stuff I was learning. But yeah, I didn't go to bars with friends and go booty bumping.

Well, UCLA is not that kind of campus. No. And a lot of these schools that are very prestigious, is not that kind of campus. Yeah. No. And a lot of these schools that are very prestigious, but that like, and that I would maybe wanna go to in some part of my brain, like NYU, is not like that.

It's just all across the city. So there's something so great about it, like being its own thing. I wonder if you came to Athens now and you walked to the campus, how you would feel. I bet you would feel like, oh, this is really cool. I spent a lot of time in Athens. Yeah, but. But not walking around the campus.

You were high. No, I was. You were drunk and high. I was working. And also drunk and high. I wasn't quite an alcoholic yet for a lot of those trips, yeah. Oh, really? Well then you, oh, so you were young and high. I was working, so I wasn't. And also drunk and well. I wasn't quite an alcoholic yet. Oh really? For a lot of those trips, yeah. Well then you, oh, so you were young.

Yeah, I would go there to work. Too young, you were too young to understand. Probably too young. I mostly remember the chickens that would fall off the semi on and off ramps. Yeah, the stinky, the loop, they call that the loop. Big poultry center. It smells so bad.

I love it so much. I miss it so much. Anyway, so sexy show, sexy show. Do you have a particular person, or just all the scenes are titillating, they all work? Or have you locked on to a certain protagonist? Yeah, there's the main guy. He is Katie Seagal's son in real life. And, um, yeah, he's like, broody and hot. And he has a Ben Affleck quality.

A little bit naughty. He's a bit naughty. Oh. I wonder if he would be good for you. I obviously Googled him, he's 29, so he's not for me. No, that's young for me. That's fine. That's him. Right now in the show, he has short hair. This is him with long hair. Okay, a little bit even more bad boy.

Yeah. Yeah, I wonder if they ever have a spank his bottom cherry rat. He sounds exactly like Frito. There's some overlap. I mean, like neither of them are in Mensa. I think even though he's a doctor, which is the greatest part is he's a doctor somehow. Sure.

But I wanted to say earmark when you said it out loud because you're referencing, oh, have you started the Pee Wee Herman documentary? No. His life is so interesting. And he went to CalArts from Florida. Oh. And well, A, he's older than I would have thought, right?

I guess because he was playing a kid. But he was at CalArts and you see these scenes and he was in these play and his cast members were David Hasselhoff and Katie Seagal and someone else. And they're all like, it's so fun to see them at like CalArts. Wow.

And they all made it, yeah. Fun. There was a fourth person, but I love the notion of like each person carved out such different. Niche. Niche. Yeah. And Katie's like a tremendous actor.

Hasselhoff is Baywatch. Come on. Pee Wee Herman is the most unique thing in what he did. Yeah. Elvira. Elvira, Elvira. You're a little too, are you too young for Elvira? I know the name.

She was humongous. She was like, I guess she would remind you of someone on the Addams family. Yeah, I thought Elvira. She had big boobs that were out. I was on a trip once where she was there as her normal person herself. And she was awesome. Cassandra Peterson.

Yeah, I think she was also, she was in the groundlings. I don't know if she was at CalArts, but she was in the groundlings. Look at that makeup. Yeah, I think she was also, she was in the groundlings. I don't know if she was at CalArts, but she was in the groundlings. Look at that makeup. Yeah, I know about her. I thought Elvira was like a character in a movie or something. She is a character and she would pop up in things.

She's a little bit like Pee Wee Harmon, like character that went everywhere. And then you come to find out that, yeah, Paul Rubens was, he was like, Pee Wee was a full-time character a lot before he was even that character. It was very- Also rest in peace.

Yeah. That's sad. Really sad. Great doc though. I'm excited to watch. Do we know how he passed? Cancer. Sad. Yeah. He was only 70. that's too young.

It is too young. But I wouldn't have thought he was 70. Like in my mind, Pee Wee Herman's probably currently 58. I think Pee Wee Herman's always been 70. You do, yeah. He. That's my 12 year age gap on you. Well, no, it's cause he looks so strange as Pee Wee Herman.

Well, cause he's a boy, but he's a mania. I know, I don't get it. So remind anyone who didn't hear my retelling of when I showed my kids Pee Wee Herman. And I was there for this. And I was also seeing it for the first time. And everyone was confused. None of it made any sense.

And then I got to see it through y'all's eyes, which I was like, oh yeah, I guess I never did figure out whether he's a boy or not. He rides a bike around, does he live on his own, but he's a boy? Ha ha ha ha. Also, okay, if you search Pee Wee Herman, you know when it gives an overview

and it has Wikipedia, like the family, it says Herman Herman, father. Yes. But deceased. The. But deceased. The dad is deceased. But like, is he real? Aren't these characters? Oh, wait, now I'm confused.

Yeah, I think this is like Pee Wee Herman's dad, Herman Herman. Oh, on the show he was Herman Herman. And if it's deceased, did he die? Like what's going on? I don't know, I don't know. Oh my God, the sister's name's Hermione. On the show or Paul?

Peewee's sister's name is Hermione. Okay, yeah, he has a really interesting story where he was fully out of the closet. Peewee or Paul? Paul. Okay. And then went back in the closet. Oh really? Yeah.

Well, is it that he went back in the closet or he became bi? No. Before bi was a thing. No, no, no, he went back in the closet. Oh. Yeah. Which is so weird, because he like became self-confident.

It's just about it, which is so fascinating. You would never think. Oh my gosh, do you think it's because he didn't like the idea that like, Peewee was then being associated with being gay? That's what I would have assumed, right? Like, oh, you gotta protect kids from this in the 80s. That Peewee can't be gay.

Exactly. That would have been my assumption, but no, it was more, he fell in love. Oh. And he lost himself. He lost all of his ambition by just being happily in love. But the relationship wasn't perfect as none are. And I think he got to a point where he was like,

what happened? I think his own dad said to him like- Herman Herman. Herman Herman said, I'm happy for you, but I think you've lost all your ambition. This relationship can't be the only thing you're pursuing in life. Oh, wow.

And so I think a lot of it, I think he maybe felt like if he were satisfied in that domain, he wouldn't have been as ambitious than the other. That's interesting. And then he had this kind of character that was Pee-wee before the makeup and everything, but he would be on, you know,

he'd be on other guest starring on shows and he's kind of acting like Pee Wee. Or he's on a, he went on the dating game as Pee Wee as like a bit. Oh. And the girl picked him. Oh. Yes.

Girl wanted to date Pee Wee. Yes, before we knew what Pee Wee was. We still don't know what he is. We don't, no one will ever know. It's your boy, your boy shouldn't be on the dating ring. Exactly. It gets so complicated so quick when you start pulling the thread of Peewee.

Of Peewee. Like, Peewee is such a stupid name. It's really funny. It is, yeah. There's a reason I've already forgot it. He stole it from, I wanna say some toy or something he had. So he's an adult, but he's calling himself Peewee.

I can't. It's a little perverse too. It is, it starts to- You're starting to feel the hidden, the closet-ness is keeping- Danger. Yeah. Out of other places. But then it doesn't mean he was a pedophile,

just cause he was gay. Oh, I'm not saying that at all. I know, but Pee-wee. Pee-wee is like, I wanna be a Pee-wee. Is dancing on pedophilia. If you hook up with him. Right. A harmonica brand.

The one inch harmonica brand is where the name came from. Oh, right. Oh, well, it's a harmonica brand. He had a harmonica and the brand name was Pee-wee. And I think that was part of his, yeah. I might watch that after I finish my sexy show. Okay, if you have anything left. If I have any.

Juice in the tank. If you don't. Shrivel up and die. They would say boys would go blind for masturbation. I don't know what they said about women. What would happen to them? Would they shrivel up? Die of dehydration?

No, I think it's like we get to because we have multiple orgasms. Right, but the going blind was a threat. Like it was basically a deterrent for masturbating. You'll go blind. Yeah. I don't even understand that. Yeah, it's like syphilis. I think it's like you get, give yourself syphilis.

Sure, something. But what were they saying to girls? Like you're a slut, you'll never find love. You're a fucking whore. You're nasty. Yeah, you're despicable. And you're disgusting and you stink. Yeah, and when you join me in the bedroom. Yeah.

Well, there's an upcoming episode that's sexy. So this is, ooh, this is like. Oh, it's in the air. It's in the air, yeah. Spring, summer, it's a time. Summer, fling, spring. What episode are you on in this section? Four.

Four, how many are there? I don't, that's a good question. I mean, one of the episodes is called, it's called. Eat my ass? No, take off, what is it? Take off your pants, is called, Eat my ass? No, take off, what is it? Take off your pants, is it take off your pants?

Take off your pants and jacket. Yeah, that's a Blink-182? It's like a thing you say in fifth grade. Ah ha, okay. Is the name of a episode. Take off your pants and jacket. That's funny. It's essentially porn.

I think these are song titles from bands because they've got Sugar We're Going Down Swinging as a song. That was a Blink-182 song, Take Off Your Pants and Jacket. Oh, it was, but they took it from the fifth graders. Rob anchored it out of the perverse into the music. You did, thank you. But they're doing it to be nasty.

They're playing games, reindeer games. They're nasty, nasty. Do you wanna do facts? Yeah, I think we should move into facts. Okay, wonderful. Alex Cooper facts. There really aren't very many facts at all because this was such a personal story.

Okay, could you make some up because Groot's here. Groot's here and I do feel sad that he's here for one where there aren't that many facts and I know he's looking to me to give facts. I've told him that you have all the facts. I know. Yeah. But I don't wanna make up facts because I'm very honest.

Yeah, that's another quality of Monica is that she's very honest. Thank you. She has a lot of integrity. He's so happy, he doesn't mind. This guy can't, he can't ruffle his feathers. Ah. Yeah.

Um. I think everyone should have a group. I know. Everyone should carry one around. Okay, so we do, we talk about couples therapy at the beginning of the show, and since then we've both, have you finished it? I haven't finished it.

Okay, since then I've started and finished it. I also did what Alex did, I watched the whole thing. One sitting. In one fell swoop, as I tend to do. Yeah, you do this always. I do. And so my question to you is, are you only allowed to start things at like 4 p.m.

as a rule? Cause you know what you're gonna do? No, I don't. You lie to yourself. I lie, yes. I lie to myself and it really fucks me over. I mean, so this happened with you. Yeah, don't.

The show on Netflix. This is gonna be a battle. But Lister Dax really hates it now that we're living in. I've expressed it, and I've asked very kindly and gently if she says, if she could say, the show you or the Netflix show you, but she always just says you and looks right at me. And then I-

Just like the Laura Ingraham. I do, cause I wanna live in that video. You want me to go, this is so stupid. Oh, there's a show called Dax Trevor on Netflix. Oh, there's a show called Dax Trevor on Netflix. This is stupid. We've never done a show on measles.

Also, how was there a fucking episode of you about measles? Yeah, there was. Cause it isn't about a serial killer? Yes, but- Did he infect someone with measles to kill him? No, I'll, I, no spoilers, but a kid gets measles. Oh, okay. This is like a C storyline?

Yeah, in one of the seasons, a kid gets measles by a family that is unvaccinated. Okay. Which leads to the demise of that family. OK. Now, I have finished you. It was five seasons. I finished it.

And by the end, I was like, I have to finish this tonight because this is interfering with my wellbeing. I am up so late, I feel hung over the next day. Like when a kid goes to a sleepover and they get no sleep and then the next day they're just like dead. That's what my life was. So I finished- You've been kind of in a fog.

I don't know what's been going on. Other than like what he's been doing, Joe Goldberg. Okay. Well, you're not gonna believe this. This was completely unimaginable when you entered your fog. But Elon and Trump are no longer friends. What? completely unimaginable when you entered your fog. Uh-huh, what? But Elon and Trump are no longer friends. What?

I can't even imagine how that could happen. Mm-hmm. What a shock. Two very reasonable people. I can't believe it. From the second they became best friends, I was like, what is the over under on this friendship? I know, just craziness.

Ah, anywho. I really enjoyed it. And I have to say, Penn Badgley really hot. Oh, I was like, is she gonna say great actor or sexy? I actually was gonna say great actor. Great actor. That role is tough.

He has to play so many facets, evil, but kind and in love like that, because that's what's like propelling all this. He convinces himself he's in love. He's doing all this out of love. And you believe him, which is weird, because it's just, it's very complicated. I heard him do an interview before I saw the show.

I heard him do an interview where he was basically like, I'm really ready to be done with this show. Oh, okay. And I thought it was like kind of- So maybe he shouldn't have had him on the promo tour. I thought it was kind of like, that sounds sort of ungrateful. And then I watched it and I was like,

of course, living in that head for that long, he said he started when he was 30 and he's about to be 40. So this is like 10 years of time of a, that's heady. That reminds me, there was a moment on week three of Seth and Matt and I's promotional tour from Without a Paddle, which I know when they were on, we discussed a little bit how loony we all went by the end, where I punched Matthew in the middle of an interview

with a boxing guard. And there were starting to be some murmurs of, that's also the tour that I got kicked off Conan on. And I think there was definitely some murmurs of like, it might be time to pull them off from off the road because there might start damaging. Yeah. Yeah.

Seems like you were. Wow. Anyway, that's a ding ding ding because Penn's been on Call Her Daddy. Oh, he has. So anyway, I finished that and then I watched Sirens in one day. I wanna see that, is it good?

Aye, yeah. What if that was on the poster? Aye, aye, aye, yeah. Monica Panman, did you like it? Aye, aye, aye, yeah. To me, a kind of a slowish start-ish, but by the end, I really, really liked the message. I liked what they did.

It's only five episodes, limited series. I cannot get enough of Megan Fahey. I love her. White Lotus, season two. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I think she's such a good actress. She's so expressive, but also very natural. I can't get enough of her.

Well, I love her. I love her. I love her. I love her. Anywho, so I watch all of Sirens. Mm-hmm. And yeah, I watch all of Couples therapy, and now I'm out of shows.

You've done about 50, 150 hours of TV since you started the pit. I know. You know what, you're right. The pit got me back into TV. I know, because you were kind of out around New Year's. And I didn't like that. Before that. But then now you've gone so hard.

I don't know about that. Why? Can you just accept me for who I am? I do, but what's so lovely about you is whatever you're doing is coming out. So it's like every guest, we gotta find out if they like the pit and then you. One thing about the show that's great is it does explore the original question

when I first brought up the show. And I was like, it's weird, like he's hot. And I know he's, like he's hot. And I know he's not supposed to be hot. You feel bad for thinking he's hot. But I am against vigilantes in real life. That whole conversation that it sparks, it answers it. Oh it does.

It kind of goes right at that. Oh good. And in the finale, that whole idea of us as a society doing that is addressed. Oh, fun. Yeah. It's a good show. Well, before you stop over consuming TV, will you please watch Mobland

so we can talk about something? I wanna talk about it with you, but I don't think it's for me. It is, it's for everybody. It's like Game of Thrones. It's awesome. Okay, I really. It's so good.

Every single person that's watching it is like obsessed with how good's awesome. Okay, I really. It's so good. Every single person that's watching it is like obsessed with how good it is. Okay, think about it. Yeah, okay. Anyway, Couples Therapy, great show, great season. Orna, Friend of the Pod. Orna, Friend of the Pod. Oh, when I posted that picture of Groot,

someone wrote, Groot, Friend of the Pod. That made me so happy. Great, Friend of the Pod. He is a friend of the pod. That made me so happy. He is a friend of the pod. He had that whole story. He's like a friend of the pod. Sure. Well, now he really is. Friend of the pod means you've been on the podcast.

So he is now a real friend of the pod. I think he can be a character and be a friend of the pod. Like Amy Hansen's never been on the show, but she's definitely a friend of the pod. That's Hansen's never been on the show, but she's definitely a friend of the pod. That's not how I use it. That's not your definition. That's not how I use it. That's fair, yeah.

Okay, so couple of therapies a fact that it's good and that people should watch it. That is a fact. Did I tell you the funny thing about Jerry Springer, that doc, you didn't watch it, right? Mm-mm. But you saw it, I'm sure on Netflix, it was like always at the top for a while.

Okay. It's fucking wild. It's one of these situations where it's like, you're reminded of what we lived through and how normal it seemed, but is absolute insanity. Yeah. You know, skinheads hitting people with chairs, naked chicks out there.

I mean, it was bonkers, but what was so funny is one of the segment producers was saying, they did have people come on that were lying, right? Cause they just wanted to be on Jerry Springer. And she's saying, you know, these people that came out and lied, she goes, it serves me right, cause I had broken our rule.

We had an official rule, nobody from Boston's allowed. Oh my God, that's great. That fucking cracked me up so hard. Like as a whole city, you're too fucking untrustworthy to be on Cherry Springer. What is it about Boston? Cause there's other cities that to me are the same. Boston's, I think Boston's wilder than any city.

The folks in Boston are wild. Even more than Miami? Yeah, they're a different kind. The folks in Boston are wild. You come from the Miami? Yeah, they're a different kind. I mean like, Southie and Charleston, I mean, it's just, they go hard. But so does, yeah, I guess.

I mean, I guess, it's just funny to me. I've been to all these cities and I'll tell you that Boston is the place that I am most on high alert. There's always a young dude that's ready to pop off and do something absolutely crazy. That just seems standard. Yeah, good while hunting.

Yes, and I relate to them because they're like, when I always try to say, like, if you think you're white trash or you've been called white trash, you come to own that and enjoy the fact that you're disgusting these fancy people. Like, it's somebody who's gotta go like, oh yeah, I'm fucking disgusted.

You know, like you- Yeah, you're owning it. I feel like just as an ethos, they've embraced that a bit. Okay, redheads and anesthetic. Redheads have been found to be more resistant to local anesthetics like lidocaine and may need more systemic anesthesia, like inhal local anesthetics like lidocaine and may need more systemic anesthesia

like inhaled anesthetics to achieve the same level of sedation. This is thought to be related to the MC1R gene mutation, which also determines the red hair color and may influence pain sensitivity. Also, that's it. Not very many facts because again, it was a very personal story

and we're grateful we got to hear it. Really candid and lovely. Yes, yes, yes. And I'm sorry that she went through that. It's fucking, I hate it. Yeah, I do too. Like the thing you've dedicated your whole life to, your greatest love in life is completely taken from you.

Yeah, it's not really unfair. I hate it. All right. All right, love you. But I don't hate you. I don't hate you. I hate you. I hate it. All right. All right, let me. But I don't hate you. I don't hate you. I hate you. The show. I love you.

The show. The show. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondry.com slash survey.