Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Andy Roddick (former professional tennis player)

Episode Date: October 15, 2025

Andy Roddick (Served) is a Grand Slam-winning tennis champion. Andy joins the Armchair Expert to discuss when his tennis rankings weren’t as good as his older brother’s until the day it flipped, whether he thinks you’re born or made with the disposition of an elite athlete, and how undervalued a skill it is to get beat and go to work the next day. Andy and Dax talk about the dividends gained from taking 10 years off of tennis, the protectiveness his father showed over his career and finances, and his mom bribing him with tickets to the US Open for a good report card. Andy explains the morning he woke up at 30 and decided to retire, the joy of doing SNL, and being spoiled by greatness in the sport of tennis today.Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new content on YouTube or listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ now.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts. Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert. Experts on expert. I'm Dan Shepard and I'm joined by Lily Padman. Hi. Today we have Andy Roddickon.

And if anyone was curious who this sexy guest was who sweat a little bit, this is it. he's he was very go all the way he's just very attractive person in general he looks attractive he sounds attractive and he is attractive and as it turns out he's attractive yeah i was absolutely charmed to no end by andy um i really just thought he was spectacular he was very easy to talk to yes yes yes he's not just easy on the eyes he's very easy on the ears and erotic is a tennis champion, former world number one and U.S. Open champion, three-time Wimbledon finalist, and a 2017 first ballot inductee into the International Tennis Hall of Fame. And he has a podcast called, served with Andy Roddick, which is like the best tennis podcast out there. You can watch

it on YouTube or listen wherever you get your pods. Please enjoy our new boyfriend, Andy Roddick. Good leaf microgreens. Where do I even start? I'm Chef Andy Hay from Andy's East Coast. kitchen, and I'm telling you, these tiny greens are a salad game changer. Grown in vertical farms, pesticide-free, year-round in Canada, good leaf microgreens are bursting with flavor and up to 166 times the nutrient density of full-grown vegetables. And the best part, they're ready to eat straighter to the pack. Pick up a pack today and follow Good Leaf Farms for recipes, including some of my favorites, Good Leaf Farms, Max Flavor, Max Nutrition, available at a store near you.

He's an altruid's fine He's an inch friend Wow This is me exactly Just straight to the sucking up Waste no time I never offer this to drivers when they're in the driveway Sure

I don't know why but we're walking by Hey brother there's a urinal in the garage if you need that that's unlocked. And he was like, oh, okay. He was really holding it in. Oh, my gosh. He was bottled up. He was.

He was. You could sense it. I didn't know I had that ability, but here we are. That's like a superpower you didn't know. That's like a good thing to say out loud to people because you don't think about it maybe. Yes. It's kind of like a dick thing to not think about, right? And what was that guy going to do for the next two hours?

He's going to have to find a cup. Yep, exactly. He was going to prove the toughness and no one was going to know. Yeah, that's right. It's like we all want that. He's going to come to his wife, and he was going to be like, my prostate's on fire. Oh, no. You just saved him from the end.

Also, you just wanted to talk about your urinal. I mean, I don't mind that people know I have a urinal in my garage. Does that excite you, Andy? A little bit more than it should. Yeah, exactly. I'm going to be honest, this is more bragging because it's name droppery, but he's passed so I can do it now. But I was once had odds. Is that the way it works?

Yeah, I think so. You and I are going to get to talk about our dads as wildly as we want to. Okay. That's the one upside of having. having lost dads, so you can really tell the truth. Yeah. But, yeah, I was one time at Ozzy Osbourne's house, and I went to use the bathroom, and there was this gorgeous black urinal in there with, like, gold fixtures.

And I was like, of course. That's kind of what I wanted to look like in this house, right? He's really delivered. That's where the obsession came from then. Oh, man. That was the secret. Really rest in peace. Yeah.

But at the old house, when Kristen moved in, I had a urinal in the hallway there based on the Aussie thing. And she was like, this is so fucking tag. and got rid of it. So I didn't have it, but now I have a garage, and I go, that's where the urnals are going to live. Yeah. Do you have anything stupid like that at your house where you bartered with your wife?

Oh, good question. Oh, I just got like my first room. Oh, you did? Ever, yeah. She has me trained well. I have like a lounger and a TV. I'm like, I made it. Yeah.

Yeah. This is it. But you're stylish. So I feel like you probably have a high standard for aesthetic. It's generous. I think he's mostly known for wearing t-shirts and shit. But it's really stylish t-shirts. Is that a really stylish one?

Look at him. This is it. My wife, she's a designer, and she does all that stuff. And it's like, if I don't value my opinion more than I value your opinion, why should I get 50% of the say in what goes in this room? Wow, that's mature. Well, that's her stance or yours? That's mine. With design, I don't trust my opinion more than yours.

Why should it be valued right now in this conversation? Agreed. And if we're going to talk about what power plant the car should have, maybe you defer to me. I'm an idiot. Very narrow silo. We can all defer to death. It's got to be a tennis question. Pretty much.

I was just like, I wasn't a dummy. Well, I was thrilled to learn a couple things about you today. We have some mutual loves. I discovered right out of the gates. So you grew up in Austin, 4 to 11? I grew up there and then went back. So I've been there 25 years. The day after you won the U.S.

Correct. Right? You flew down there and bought a house immediately. Yes. So I have that same crazy love affair with Austin. Yeah. What was it like growing up there? It was different than it is now.

There weren't 60-story pre-sold commercial buildings. It was Willie Nelson playing Antones and this, weird place in Texas that makes no sense compared to the rest of Texas. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was great. You know, we moved from Nebraska. Most of my formative memories are probably from Austin, and your parents move you around, and then when you have your own decision to make, I went back there.

What part of Austin were you in? Well, it used to be kind of the outskirts, and then it became, I guess, the main skirts. Like Westlake area? Yeah, exactly. The hills out there. Good gas. You knew that. Speaking of people who have passed, sadly, Robert Redford Pass, and I almost sent this to you,

apparently he loved Barton Springs. Oh, no. Barton Springs is cool. That's my temple. It's amazing. The whole town lake situation right off of downtown, you can be crunchy and you can be downtown in like four minutes. If I go there for a week, my commitment is like, I go to Barton Springs every day. I got to go every day. But I just recently discovered going at night. I guess I didn't realize it was open at night. So the notion that you can float in the springs and be looking at the lit up city, that feels impossible. Do you like it so much that if you take someone and they don't love it as much as you, you're disappointed?

Then they're out. No, they're not. I'm still here. I'm still standing. But my financial security is tied to you, so you have a lot of leverage. That's right. Yeah. But did you not, I mean, she got booted. She had thrown out. You got thrown out?

She had 86. Is that possible in Austin? Yeah. They don't let you bring in any food. By the way, it wasn't just me. It was a bunch of us. It was a black mark on my reputation there, I know. You distanced yourself from us so fast.

Yeah. No, you can. Her mistakes can't become yours and vice versa. We brought like cheese, it's and snacks. And this Australian. woman who runs the place very well. For that month, I'll just add, the turnover there is very high. She lit into us, and she was like, you got to go.

And we were like, well, we'll just put it in the car. Oh, so it wasn't like a water bottle through TSA where it's, you just got to go back and start again? This was like, you were done. You can't come back. Take your food and get the fuck out. We hate you. Did she actually say that?

No, no. Revision is history. This is funny because we got in a fight about this. I mean, because in Ozzy saying that's kind of funny. It's kind of funny, and then it can be funnier when they cost. Well, also, we were just like, there's a very easy solution. We'll just put it away. We'll just remove the food.

Nope, already saw it. Already saw it. To be fair, you had just proven that you weren't to be trusted. I guess. I'm a very trustworthy person. I just love cheeses. Okay, so you grew up there, and then you're the youngest of three boys. Do you think you would have ever been a professional athlete without competing with two people that are way older than you?

And not just in tennis, it's just the whole ride. I always thought about it because my middle brother played tennis and was good at tennis. So I like the way that you frame that because I normally thought about it. I had this exposure to tennis at like a really high level. So I think I gave a lot of credit to that as opposed to just the basic structure of you're fighting uphill the whole way. So then when you get to neutral, it feels like you're downhill. I think I was a little bit of a whoopsie. My oldest brother was going to college when I was going to preschool.

No. So it's like we didn't even live in the same place. My next brother was six years older, which even worse. In sports is like an eternity. We kind of had the same thing, and, you know, the rankings told the story that I wasn't horrible, but it was, you weren't him. Luckily for us, it flipped one summer very quickly. You know, he was a four-time All-American of Georgia and played well and was one of the top

juniors in the world. And then one summer, he's drilling me when he comes home from school the next summer, it flips. Wait, at University of Georgia? Yeah. That's where I went to school. Oh, really? Yes. Yeah, yeah.

You could have even been, no. No, he was born in 76. Yeah, it's not going to work out. That's my age. We just barely miss each. Yeah. Just barely miss each other by a decade. Wow.

He's been retired for 25 years. That's exciting. Go dogs. Do you remember beating your brother at tennis for the first time? Yeah, and I'm still not totally convinced that he didn't take a dive. Oh. It's where he was leaving college. He was pretty sure he didn't want to try tours. So the benefit to me was way more than the benefit to him.

I still haven't asked him about it because I don't know that I would believe anything he said. I don't think he did. I don't think he did. I don't know, but he's not Jesus. He might be a great dude. But I don't think he's like from another planet. I was excited because then I knew it when my mom was like, well, look at your brother. I'm like, that bum?

The guy who sucks now? Like, you know, the husband who I just mop the court with? Yeah. But did it cause any friction between you two? Not at all. I think the age gap so big. So big that like you basically just ignore each other. There was no sibling rivalry because it was just he was here and it was here and then he was gone and I was home.

I probably annoyed him at a certain point, you know, when you're 8 and 14 or something. Yeah. But once you get older, there's no day-to-day orbit and friction, at least in my, experience. I'll just say I bring up your brothers because you guys moved to Florida for your middle brother to pursue his tennis career. Were you bummed to move to Florida? I honestly don't remember. That's a little misleading. He was good. I was one of the top in the country in my age division. So it wasn't as if we moved there and I started playing tennis. It was pretty established. But you were only 11? I was 10. I think it was new and exciting.

I mean, imagine this. You all have probably experienced at some point. You've had this crazy growth trajectory, but we landed, I'm 10, and at that point in Austin, I was nine beating 16-year-olds, so I was number one in the city in 16-and- unders. And I always tell people with athletic children, when you think they're really good, just travel a little further. Yeah. Right. So we get to Florida, and all of a sudden, I see two girls hitting on these courts down at the end. Their names were Venus and Serena. Stop it. Oh, wow. How old were they? Serena's about my age, and Venus is, you know, two years older. Oh, wow. And so three years of our existence. after we moved to Florida was like,

you think you're good. Right. And then you see, I get goosebumps talking about. Like, Jennifer Capriotti was there who won majors and made the final semis of the USO when she was like 13. Oh, my God.

Well, you've now moved to the epicenter of tennis. Well, you see, like, pro players and it's going, oh, I thought it was okay. Yeah. And now I suck again. Parts of that are exciting. Parts of that are scary. Yeah.

I bet that's the first round of caving that's on the table. Like, that could be overwhelming and you could give up. Like, getting beat and just going to work the next morning is like a superpower. It's like an undervalue. you'd skill. You know, you could be sad and work. And so, like, I've always been okay with that balance and have failed many, many times. But that part was cool where you arrive and it's like, this is where the next 20 years of tennis is getting made. I even realized that at a young age.

So that part was exciting, but, you know, you miss people and things. So your dad grew up working on a dairy farm. He was in the military. He ran a jiffy lube. He's a tough dude, yeah. Where does he rank in these parents of child athletes? You hear these kind of stories. He was very tough, but also most of the parents of the child athletes want to be noticed and want credit. He wanted no credit. Oh. They never sat in my player box, were never visible on TV until the cameras, like, found them, like, crouching in some random part of the stadium. So differentiated in that it was completely altruistic.

It wasn't his own glory he was seeking. No, I fully believe that. But it was like, this is a choice. This is an opportunity. You don't have to do it. if you do it, we're going to do it. This isn't like a half-ass type thing, and it was military that way.

And anything that I was doing was not hard compared to him running a farm when he was 12 or 13 years old. So the base comp for any conversation we started wasn't good for me. Right, right. So he was hard. Where was it productive and useful?

What aspects of it do you have a lot of gratitude for and which ones were probably not helpful? It's probably the same. It's just a matter of if you get through. Tennis is weird. You should not have kids playing nine hours a day when you're eight or nine years old. Tennis is one of the sports

that that has to happen. Right. You don't have stories in tennis where it's like, it's a random reference, but I remember the guy who got drafted number one in the NBA, Michael Oloa Candy. Like he started playing basketball freshman year of college. Rodman started like 21 years old. That story doesn't exist. In tennis. It doesn't exist. You guys are more like symphony musicians. It's like this weird thing. And you have to get used to this kind of lifestyle training thing before you are old enough to realize it's weird. I was pretty aware. I went to normal schools. It was this weird divide between no one at my school knew that I could do this thing. And so, you're dealing with every little issue that every kid has, whether it's not fitting in or this down the other. A girl doesn't like you. Yeah, someone's little brother trying to kick the shit out of you. Because he just found out he's strong. Yeah, and then all of a sudden two o'clock hits and you go to practice

and all of a sudden you're elite at something. Yeah. And you're valued. And so you have like this shift midday every day where it's like you put on your cape and then all of a sudden you're good at something. Great. Well, I would imagine that would make most people pretty dualistic. Or arrogant.

Oh, arrogant. Well, I just think you really get used to having multiple identities in different spaces. And there's like a quarter between these. And when you go to school, you can't bring your cockiness from the court. You shouldn't. Yeah. That's not saying people probably do. It won't go well.

Yeah. Minimally. I would imagine you get pretty well versed in kind of snapping back and forth to two versions of yourself. Maybe. That feels too self-indulgent for you. No, definitely didn't realize it in the moment. You're shy when you're at school, unless you're playing a sport or something, and then you kind of get a little cocky to your point. Yeah.

You know, but I've realized the value of different places, different things at different moments, the value of traveling when you're 13 to Cali Columbia by yourself or going to Hong Kong. I don't know that I realized how weird that was, but also as I get older, the value of that if it doesn't go completely sideways. And I think that's a razor's edge. There's a million people in tennis. They did all that and it really didn't yield anything besides maybe damage of having done that stuff. Or, like, there's a lot of issues. So I think if you get to the other side of it, it's great where you're actually pragmatic enough and you feel like your cup is full enough to look backwards and say that was really good for me.

And I don't know that that's a one-size-fits-all thing. Do you follow F-1 at all? Not really. Okay. Well, Max Verstapp and the four-time running champ. His dad famously on the way home from the track pulled over a gas station was like, get out, you're walking home because you didn't go for that pass in the turn and you had it. I mean, just brutal.

Now, the fact that he's a four-time world champion, you're like, okay, well, Well, Tiger, Serena and Vina. I mean, you hear all the stories. But we never talk about the ones. It's like, well, they never even got there. Annie left your fucking kid at the guest. She was like, it's a, but we- kids might be dead now.

I remember. And she never lets me forget it. I remember playing Serena in like a practice match. And they were famous for, we're not going to play junior tennis tournaments. And we're all like, how do you learn how to compete? You can see how good they are. And also, this will never work, idiots, right? And so we would play, you know, as the best kid.

And Serena at that point was like she is now. She's an absolute beautiful physical specimen. She's an absolute, like, yeah, totally. So we're playing, and her dad are the coaches at the academy. They're all in on this program with these two. It's like, okay, I guess so. We'll see if it works. It worked.

But, like, having kids from the academy surround the court and cheer against them. Oh, really? Yeah. What? Yeah. She didn't say this. You see her grow over, and you're looking, and she's like, fuck you. It's fueling something.

If it works, yeah. I don't know that there's neutral. Are you born with the disposition, or is it made? That's sort of my question. Again, I don't think it's absolute. I think like everything, it's not binary. Yeah. And it's some combination.

If you time it when you're ready, you could be ready at 12 and not ready at 9. Well, you tried to quit at 16? This is going to sound arrogant. This isn't real for most people, and I understand it's insane. My version of quitting was after I lost a junior Wimbledon, throw all my rackets away. I knew at that point I could go to any college of my choice on a full ride. So I wasn't quitting that. It was more like I'm quitting progress.

I'm quitting working towards this pro thing. It's not there. I'm going to go to Georgia and be a stud. I'm going to dominate kegers and courts. Yeah, that's what we're going to do. I know. My brother had the most fun of any person that's ever gone to Georgia. The story gets told, and my version of quitting is like,

I left my rack as in England. Nothing's a straight line. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there were levels to stuff. I knew that I could go anywhere to college. I knew I could play. And that wasn't a cocky or arrogant thing to say. That was true.

There were offers. But also, it's like, you have this comfortable thing that is going to be awesome. You know life is going to be great until you're like 22 or 23. And it's going to be fantastic and you can train or not training. But there's that choice

to go past what you can be content with. That's a hard thing. You're going to have to have another whole round of misery. You've been suffering to get to this level, but to get to that level there'll be more suffering. You're signing up for more suffering.

Isn't that everything, though? That's not kind of specific, right? That's just like, you don't feel content. You want to keep going and building and there's a next interesting conversation. There's something you haven't touched on. There's always something, right? For me, yes.

For her, yes, I am getting to the age. Really? I am. I'm eight years older than you, I think. I'm just starting to feel like, yeah, we did a lot this lifetime. And we did enough. If you didn't do enough for six months, would you still feel that way? That's the fear, but I will say I had a lot of practice as a struggling actor.

So for eight years, I never got any work. So I got pretty good at learning how to exist with, like, no purpose. No, you didn't. You were a drug addict. I was a drug addict and a drunk. Awesome. But I didn't try to go into the movies. I like exercise.

I like bike riding. I like working on shit. I'm very content not doing it. I could be wrong. But I have a different mindset for sure than I had at 42. Okay. And I can just feel it. And I'm welcoming it.

I like it. Did you used to have guilt about it? Oh, tremendous. I think at the core of it all is, am I worthy of love just by existing? Or do I need to be spectacular? I understand. So my story, my whole life is I have to be spectacular to be loved by everyone.

And I'm approaching a zone where I'm like, no, I think I can just exist and people will love me. And so that's an interesting thing that I'm plugged from. But what about day-to-day purpose? Well, I have two kids is my purpose. You know, I get up and drive them to school and I'm very involved. Okay, so then you drive them to school. And then where's the purpose meter between eight and four? Yeah, exactly.

I'm pretty involved with helping dudes that are getting so. I have a lot of things. Yeah. Don't you think, though, and maybe I'm wrong. I don't have kids. I feel like if you are your parents' sole purpose, that's tough. If they feel the weight of that. Our kids probably feel like there are sole purpose, not knowing what we do when they go to,

like you have an entire work life. Right. But I do think it's important. We're happy, and I'm sure you are too, that your parents actually see you working. That might matter. And the moms still wants to work for a while, so they'll see plenty of work. Here's what it is, Andy. You've been given this enormous gift.

I've been given this enormous gift. I could explore the world and I could figure out what purpose is other than being productive. I have that opportunity and I feel like it would be very dishonoring to that insane amount of luck I've had to not challenge myself to find out what else is there in life other than being productive and accomplishing things and being spectacular. To me, it's a challenge in its own right. It is purpose in its own right. Can I unplug from the production fucking hamster wheel in the growing and growing and explore and listen and be a part? of the planet. Have you not done that at all?

Yes, I have windows of that. By choice. By choice. Do you mean like, do I take breaks and stuff? Many people's journeys aren't the same. I was away from tennis for nine, 10 years before I wasn't. I had that beat to where now I feel the opposite of you. I feel refreshed.

You feel like you're getting on something. You feel like you're going. But Andy, also, we started this podcast when I was exactly your age. I directed it a movie. It didn't work out. I was completely depressed. I sat around for six months. And then I was like, okay, I need a whole new racket.

and I want to throw myself at it, and I want to build something again. And it happened. I don't know. We'll check in at 50. I'm not saying you're wrong at all. I'm more just fascinated about the process. Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, yeah.

Back to you. It is about you because this is on your horizon as well. You have these decisions. Well, I'm just fascinated. I mean, it starts and stops and people normally think they need agreement. I'm more fascinated about what I don't know yet. Yeah. Uh-huh.

Okay, so you have this meteoric rise in tennis. You're a lot bigger, forgive me, neither. know much about tennis. I just don't own that right now. And I'm also going to ask you to go through some things that you would imagine everyone knows. Sure. But I don't know that our audience knows. You're a lot bigger than the tennis players I've met. You're kind of abnormally big?

Not in tennis anymore. I present more as like a fullback than a skinnier person. But you're like 6-2. I always say I'm like a tennis player that was born in Nebraska. They're big now, though. Like Rafa's an animal. They're all huge now. That's the thing that's changed.

The conditioning has changed. Well, we used to have a skill and now you can't have that skill without being insanely athletic. So now you're seeing like Alcoraz and his body's like UFC fighter. Yeah. He explodes and centers six foot five and he's like a skier. The athleticism of tennis has completely changed

in the last 25 years. All sports, F1 drivers are now like peak fucking athletes. They weren't. They drove a car. The only place I'm seeing because I watch all these sports doc series because I do love them even if I don't like the sport. I don't like golf. You get away with just having a normal dad body. No. I mean you look at like a

macaroid. These guys are like human rubber bands. Used to kind of be, what was the, I can quote, how'd be you go more, plaid pants and a huge ass. It's younger and younger, and these guys are swinging violently. It's changed a little bit.

Tiger changed a lot of it. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because he looked and presented like an athlete, so therefore every kid that wanted to be him now looks and presents like an athlete. That's the thing with sports, man. Anybody who comes in here and says, their generation walked up hill both ways

is completely self-indulgent and full of shit. Yeah. Okay, so, but with your height, that has to be a part of your serve, right? Because the crazy part about your game was you had this insane serve. Yeah. I like this detail of it.

You had numerous different coaches over the years. And I do want to talk about that. I want to know how one, you got to break up with someone and hire someone. That's got to be a very stressful part of the experience. But as you hired coaches, your whole game was on the table except for the serve. The serve was to not be talked about. Is that right?

It was to not be talked about. Were you superstitious about the serve? No, I just knew it backwards. I knew the cadence. When it started, I knew this little three count that I had. I knew the feelings of it. I knew more than they did. I don't say that lightly because we'll get to the coaches.

And I was obviously always in pursuit of something new, something different, something additive. And also, don't talk about my surf. Is the origin of it true that you got really frustrated at like 16 and you served in a weird way out of anger and it worked? Is that true? That's true. I was playing my friend Marty Fish, who ended up being a really good player. He was six in the world. Basically all the kids who didn't get picked by the Federation, right?

So the people, not funded by U.S. tennis anymore, kind of the throwaways. We played at Crystal Palms apartment complex in Florida. And there were like six of us. And out of that group, a couple of us made top five, top six in the world. But I was playing against Marty, who was really, really good. And at that point, better. And just got pissed off. And I have like this little half motion of boarded tears.

But it's not conventional. Hit one irresponsibly out of anger. And it went in. Which, by the way, is the thing they tell you to never do anything, right? Don't try to kill it. Don't try to crush it. And you did. You're like, I'm going to fucking murder this ball because I hate it.

And that was it. How'd I've been doing well with Marty that day, I wouldn't be here having this conversation. That's so crazy. And how do you, like, when you recognize it clicked, do you then think, okay, how do I commit this whole thing to muscle memory? Like, I got to replicate. You just over and over again, you do it? Just started doing it. And you didn't have to overthink it.

It was immediately. Well, a lot of the muscles building, like your shoulder still goes over. It's just your feet was different, but there was no time. And there were some other things that needed to be adjusted. But, yeah, I mean, you literally figured it out. And then the year before, you're 40 or 50 in the world in juniors, which sounds. good, but that means they're going to college. And then four months later, it was your number one in Florida. One signed a rebuck deal over pro. Yes. So when you went to bed that night after

discovering the serve, did you think it's replicatable? That wasn't a one-off? Yeah, I mean, it was not the way a tennis player should look. It was violent. And so the conversation became, it'll work, but for how long? He's going to destroy his shoulder. Destroy it. It's like a 12-year-old throwing a curveball. I knew I had it. But you were wondering for how long? I was like, let's just rip it, though. Yeah, good for you. But do you never going? Good, you had to. Yeah, kind of. I just feel like if I was you and I have been pursuing this thing nine hours a day for the last nine years, I feel like I would have gone to bed that night, been like, oh, wow, we're about to enter a whole new zone. It was weird, too, because going into sophomore year of high school was five to 110 pounds. Oh, Jesus. I grew seven inches that year. And then six months after that, I'd discover the serve. So all of a sudden, I go from like this tiny little guy who just annoyed people forever. You know, that was like my style to having this thing. You go from like itchiro to. bonds for hearing and judge quickly, right?

Yeah. How exciting. Were you cool in school? What was the high school experience like? The better I got at tennis, I became cooler. Everyone had a local paper. Oh, so people started learning. Yeah, so then I started.

But no, not really. Not even local celebrity. You were becoming a... It was weird because what we talked about earlier with the separation with church and state with school versus this other thing, it changed. You sign a contract, people know what you sign for. Yes. You know, I remember the first time I played, there was a tournament in Miami,

1,000, which is like just less than a grand slam. win my first match. So I'm 17, beat a guy top 40, which was like unheard of. And then I'm second round, Andre Agassi, who was no more in the world of my idol. 17,000 people obviously lost, but then went to school the next day. After playing Agassi. In high school. So that like weird tradeoff was like.

Also, how much money were you winning back then? That deal I signed. It was incentive base, but the base was 400,000 a year. Okay. Immediately. Oh, my gosh. In high school? Yeah.

And then it was like all bonus-based, right? Right. So your prize money equals an incentivized contract along the way as well. With your endorsement deals. Correct. Okay, so how does a 17-year-old comprehend like we're going to make a million bucks this year? Is that part super exciting or were your parents somehow trying to shelter you from that reality? Probably both.

I knew enough. Were you allowed to go buy a stupid car in high school or anything? No, I bought a fucking sound system. Like, what a douche bad. No, that's a high school thing to buy. You can't regret these things. That's exactly what you're supposed to do. I made $3,200 for losing in my first pro event.

But you among a sound. It was loud. Was loud going into the parking lot of the week later. Just such a dick. You have to love that about your. I'm impressed you could keep your eye on the tennis prize. I bet the girls were just. Yeah.

I bet the girls were all a flutter. All of four. They were a flutter. Of course they were. Not only, you're a stud. You're a stud and you're famous. And you have a towel. You get the best sound system in the high school parking lot.

That's right. I think you're underselling the sound system. You're right. I know that turns out. Let's add that back in. What was the sound system in? What kind of vehicle? It was an old Chevy blazer.

Great. Cloth seeds after sweat. 12 inch kicker box? Yeah. The speakers couldn't take it, obviously. So it was just broken. Cloth seats. It smelled like a hockey locker room.

It was terrible. It was not the one. Wow. So, yeah, Rich in high school. That's such a bizarre. Oh, yeah. Rich. I didn't even say that.

It's not like I had it. I knew it was there at some point, but it wasn't as if, like, I went to a bank account and could go spend $100,000. I didn't have access to it. It's not the same. It's like liquidity versus net worth. You can't buy a coffee with net worth. Right.

So the parents were keeping you in check. You asked about my dad. He was very strict on the financial part of it. Could be a short ride. You got to save. Not even a short ride. Just why wouldn't you be responsible? He was actually probably doing that because he thought it would be a long ride.

Uh-huh. I think it was probably the opposite. So he was very overbearing with that stuff. Like he wore my first agent out to the point where, like, I would have other coaches. And it was like, well, your dad called me. I go, don't answer. Well, your agent who you loved to death. What was his name?

Ken Meyerson. He ran interception for you a bit. He took a little bit of the stress of the father-son relationship out of the equation. Completely. That's kind of telling because he had too much to say too often. My dad? Yeah. Just has a control issue.

Yeah, control. I don't want this to become this weird representation. My parents got me, they lived in a train. He did every single thing in his ability. All the stories were telling was because he didn't leave an hour of work on the table. He never asked me to do one thing that he hadn't been willing to do in his life, which I think gives it an element of credibility, but definitely wanted his voice in the room. Okay. Not in front of the TV, didn't want credit, didn't want to be recognized, didn't want anyone outside of this circle of four or five people. These four or five people were going to know that he existed. And no one else would. And that you were his? Is that a piece of it? I think just overly protective. Maybe like a fear-based type control thing. Yeah.

And then I think it's weird. You get to certain levels and we talk about high school and then you play the U.S. Open and then you're on night matches and then you win it. And then you do all these things. And I think it was hard for him once I was a complete adult. Yeah. Right? Like he would tell me to clean my room.

I'm like, Dad, you came to stay at my house. Yeah, he gave to see you in Austin. And he was all rung up about it being a mess. We were just pissing on fire hydrants. He's like, your room's a mess. I'm like, I'm not. number one in the world. Yeah. I don't care. I don't miss practice. Maybe misguided at times, but I don't think ever for the wrong intention. Right. I can feel the hesitation you would

never want to say anything disparaging, but it's like, I love my wife. She's flawed as fuck. We have a great relationship. It has many challenges. Yeah. It's totally fine if things are also complicated. Yes. It doesn't make her a bad person that she leaves the fucking cupboards open nonstop. She's still a great person. That she can't put a fucking cap on a jar. Oh my gosh. I grab my pills. They all fucking blow up. I'm like, none of these caps are on. Toothace.

It's so simple. It's right there. I don't want crusty-ass toothpaste after you, like, can I borrow some? No, you can't because then that's a goner. Yes. How about this? You can borrow anything, but you have to put it back. Every time you use my toothpaste, I end up in the car driving somewhere.

Yeah. And then I made fun of because I order like 15 fucking toothpaces from Amazon. She's like, we don't need them. We do. See, she's good now because she'll hear me bitch about it. And then she's going to be furious because she actually buys like the 20. There's the backup. I'm telling stories.

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So you had the record for the fastest serve in history at 155 miles an hour. It has been beaten, but it's still only at 156. Wow. That's so massive. The serve is described in many of the things I was reading as unreturnable. Well, to most, except for the Avengers that came on midway through career. But I wasn't a natural tennis player. I was like a work guy, but I could throw it.

That was it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I could make your life uncomfortable for a little bit. Okay, so you win the 2003 U.S. Open. You are... I'm dying to go to the U.S. Open. You have to. Let's do it.

Whenever. Can you take that? You just have to be a guest on his podcast. Oh, great. Invite me and then let's... You have to, you know, earn your way. You don't even have to do that. Oh.

I want to go. Very easy. I know why you want to go. I want to try that honey come. The honey deuce? Yeah. That's a cocktail? They basically invented a signature cocktail like that everyone pretends like has been around for 100 years.

Like a mint jula. They fucking put it in like eight years ago. It's not, have you had a hundred deuce the U.S. Open? It's like, no, because they didn't fucking have them when I was playing. It's a made-up thing. But it's a real. It's genius, though. I don't know.

Oh, you got to buy it to find out. No, a little shambord, lemonade, gray goose, and spry. Yeah, I want that. I'll make you one and serve it on the fact check. She wants to overpay for it. That's right. You can't imagine how well you know her. You literally know everything you need to know a lot of going to send a juice.

It doesn't taste as good if you don't pay. $28 for it. And if it doesn't have those little melon balls on there. Yeah, that's really cool. My favorite thing about that is they have the honey-duce cups that have all the winners on them. It's like, oh my God, I know I paid $30, but I got a free cup. It's worth 75 cents. So I won.

Yeah, I want that. Yeah. I want that. I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that. I say thousands by getting this. But also the U.S. Open's gotten so cool. Everyone goes.

It's definitely a social event. It's the Metball. It's the Metball of sports. Yeah. I do really, really want to go. I need to learn a little bit more. I'm trying to decide if I should ruin your day. What?

I got invited this year to go sit in the GM box. It's cool. But it was the Emmys. No. There's something else important. Yeah. We have been on time too much. It's worth of seeing.

I got to do more social media stuff. Really? You kind of hamph it all up. I have a lot to work on. It's theater now for sure. Yeah. You win that 2003. You're 23?

No, I turned 21 during the tournament. What are the emotions? that follow it. There's obviously probably relief. I felt a lot more relief towards the end of my career when I won matches. I was so dumb. I was like, oh, I'm going to be like the guy. And this fucking guy Federer comes in. I used to get bribed with the U.S. Open for my mom for a good report card. Wow. Like I went when I was nine and she would just weirdly let me walk around all day by myself. I would sneak in the players' lounges, boredy to tears, but I saw Jimmy Conner's make a run when he was 40 to the semis and he had the crowd in his hand. It was like a live rock show.

Yeah. He would go like this and Everyone would get up. I'm going, tennis can do this. Stand up. Crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, he's controlling the mood of grown people. Yes. It is interesting to observe human power when you're little. Absurd. I remember flying over it. And at that point, Mayor Dinkins then changed the flight pattern so that you didn't get the noise over the stadium. But I remember flying right over the

middle of the stadium when I was nine. It was 1 a.m. or something irresponsible. And it was packed. It was Connors versus Patrick McHenner. And I remember being like, I cannot believe how late it is in what we just flew over. They're still playing. Oh, my God. I was blown away. So then 12 years later, you have that moment where it's like, that's it. No matter what happens and not much happened.

But no matter what happens from there, that's that. You did that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. People can't take away what you did. I think you have to come to that. I don't think that's human nature. I did it. It can't be taken from me.

Because I have had many successes. And then after failures, I really can't access the notion. that I had done the other things. Does that make sense? Sports and entertainment? Maybe. Yeah, like a trophy is so definitive, I guess. It's number one.

You want it. It's also each match is individual, where I feel like entertainment's more cumulative. The difference is, I'm guessing. I don't want to tell you about your business, but I'll tell you about ours. You win the U.S. Open. You know what that is.

You can finish a project, and other people are going to define what that is, and you're not going to know for a year. Or even the quantifiable aspect, it might make $180. And you're like, wow, that's the big comedy. And then another movie comes around, makes $2.25 in a month. And that's like, oh, we forgot that that other movie made one.

Yeah, someone wins the U.S. Open last week or wins at 20. It's kind of like the same thing. I had a hard time less to do with like that U.S. Open win because that was just fun, good time. Yeah. You thought it was the beginning of something. You think it's going to happen a lot. I would lose a Wimbledon final after that. Yes.

And it was like, you failure. And now I can go, okay, there's 128 men and women, so 256, each vying for this thing. You have a two-week race. you come in second with like earth, some jackass can define that as a failure. I bought into it for a very, very long time. Yes. Right. And so now it's like, okay, the way people perceive me would be different had I won two more

points at Wimbledon, one of seven times. But it doesn't really change the day-to-day, like what a Tuesday would look like at all, I don't think. I guess that's what you're saying is that's healthy what you're saying and some people never get there. It took a lot of work for me. It's an ongoing thing to work through the experience of having mass relevance and then have fading relevance

and then maybe get another spike of mass relevance. I mean, I was struggling with it so much that I asked Sean White to go out to breakfast with me and I'm like, how did you navigate these periods where it's just like, when you win the Olympics, the Olympics is a whole other thing because it's like you're four years, top of the mountain, and then like a year later, it's like, okay,

I have three years. I'm curious about that conversation. That's brutal. Because I've heard Phelps talk about that. He goes, I'd win the Olympics, I would get all these medals and then I would be depressed. You're on every talk show.

It's the opposite of what you would think, right? And the rest of the world, Plays along. Plays along because when someone's number one for too long, they want to see that upended. Well, there's also a reason why, you can't say everyone, but the narrative you hear most with musicians, with actors, entertainers, sports is when you're going after something,

they always say, that was the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was the best time of our career looking back. Building. Pursuing, having those things where there's no, I think expectation is the hardest thing in sports. People talk about doing it. I think keeping it to your point is like another level

in something that I couldn't do. It's another piece where you have to almost be like a complete psychopath. You know, it's going to reset? Daily. It's not even just a big reset. It's like, I have to wake up, you know, Novak has been doing this for 20 years where he's Djokovic is like, I've been had a piece of chocolate in 20 years. I have lemon water when I wake up.

That's hard to do for a day. Exactly. You need to be a Buddhist to get through it, but I don't think you can be a Buddhist in order to get it. That's like, it's this weird catch-22. It is. You have to keep it right-sized, but in order to be the best, it can't be. right size. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would say you can have it all just not at the same time,

right? Right, right, right. That's true. Okay, so the email I got from your publicist, and then in this great GQ article I read with you, it was really, really good. Great article. Both people are like, doesn't really want to talk about retiring. It was like present in the article and it was present in this, and that's just a curiosity of mine. What part of it don't you like talking about, or is there any part you don't like talking about? Well, imagine you have to announce your retirement from the five things that you do, individually. Yeah, yeah. Makes no sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I retire from tennis.

That doesn't mean I retire from life. There's a million other things. Yes, yes, right? So it's like, you retired at 30s. Like, no, I started another shit. Right, right. It's a weird thing where I get asked about a lot and it's like, oh, are you okay? Here is my primary guess.

Yeah. Was, I would hate it because I hate being pitied. There's nothing I would hate more than like knowing someone pities me or feels bad for me. No, I don't think that was it. I think it was, I was 30 when I retired. Yeah. From tennis. And so it's hard to define people kind of almost digesting as like life ending at 30.

That doesn't make any sense to me. Like I'm very sad. This is my thing. This is the thing I'm in love with. This is my first girlfriend. This is my first love. This is the first thing ever. And I have a weird story.

I woke up one morning and I decided that that was that. It was your birthday? It was my birthday. I retired that afternoon. I made a run at the U.S. Open. I was in the middle of the U.S. Open. I'd played the night match the night before. And then I just did it.

So I played like another week. And that was that. And I never came back. Right. So I admire it deeply. The earlier conversation we just had, which I was saying, no, the challenge of leaving safety and leaving what you know is actually the calling. And so I actually admire greatly that you were 30 and you were confident enough to go like,

I'm not enjoying this the way I'd like to enjoy it. I'd be happy or not doing this, ultimately. It might have been a little more selfish than that. I'm pretty good at reality. I think the athletes were trained to like live in denial. We have numbers, like a very clear data set of your one, you're two, your four, you're six, you're eight. I was able to do that math.

And then I was 12 or 15 or whatever it was. So it was going the wrong way. And then frankly, it was these monsters that came, these Novaks and Raffas and Rogers and my shoulder was not great. If I didn't have the carrot that I was chasing, that was a grand slam title, yes, I had a hard time reconciling because that was the goal the entire time. Yes, so that's interesting.

When I didn't believe in that goal, I wish that I could have had in that moment more enjoyment. Of just being on the tour. Yeah, and I didn't work that way. Yeah. It was past fail. It was like misery. I was trying to out train everyone.

You make them for what I lacked an ability. I often had these conversations with Brooke, my wife. I was like, I was jealous of some of the guys that were 20 or 25 in the world that you would see a half hour after a loss. And they were like happy. Going out with their buddies. I was like, I didn't know if it was great that it didn't have that or great that I did. I didn't know, and so I struggled with that the last couple years. Yeah, that makes sense.

We were talking earlier about the difference between entertainment. Entertainment is subjective. The best shows aren't the biggest shows. Correct. The best shows that are really speaking to major themes, those are not seen by everyone. It's all very subjective. What we do, even though we're all in the podcast space, is very different from what Rogan's doing, from what Alex is doing. We can take pride in what we're doing.

Sport is winning and losing. It's like the only metric. I mean, it doesn't have to be, it could be this. It could be 10th in the world or 11th. But if you're a winner, as you are. Go ahead. And as am I. It's winning or nothing.

I was a two-time state champ. It's not a big deal, but it's a big deal. Everyone's heard it. They're so sicker that we can't get into it anymore. You're the only one that could probably get through it at this point. I know. But I do know that second is not an option. When you're in it.

And so if it's just like, yeah, we're fifth or six for this long, I could see. being like, I'm done now. There's also even a hiccup with him there, which is there's like all this great science behind the curse of silver. So bronze people actually enjoy the Olympics. They go out on a winning note. Now you got on the podium.

Silver's like a death. It's a rough one. It doesn't make any sense. I watched my friend Marty from the serving story earlier. We were on the same Olympic team. I was seated two. I lost early.

He made it to the finals. Played another guy. Marty, I don't know what he was ranked at the time. He was probably like 30. It wasn't as if He was favored to get there plays another guy around that ranking and loses. I look back to the Olympics and I'm like, yeah, it was pretty fun.

We were in the Olympic Village and he's like, I fucking hate, I can't. It's hard. I don't want to think about it. So your point, that second place silver thing is, I think it's real. The brain is so fucking feeble. But you can be pragmatic. You can talk through it and understand basic math and you're like, that's better. Doesn't matter.

Yeah, but it hurts more. It's so bizarre. Not when you get into those mental gymnastics. Okay, so you are one of only two tennis players to ever host SNL. That's pretty incredible. Yeah. What was that experience like? It was great. I think Lorne Michaels just wanted me to hit with his son or just kind of, I think that was pretty much it. That would be enough for me. I think that was the entire thing.

It was a weird moment in time where tennis crosses over. I don't know why that happened. I like uncomfortable things. I don't get freaked out by that thing. I'm like, oh, if you suck, it's kind of funny. No one expects anything from you. Their job is to not make you look terrible. Right, right, right. And you have the most talented people on earth around you to do that. Were you able to be present and have fun? world tour finals where I was one going into it. There were three guys in that tournament of the top eight. So getting number one's great. Being year end number one is more prestigious. So Federer was in second. Ferreiro, who now is the coach of Alcaraz, was one of the guys also. So is that the guy you had beaten the

US Open. Yes, exactly. So I was still training for that the next week. So I was in New York. I would train in the mornings until two. And then I would go do all the rehearsals and everything until one or two in the morning and then had to play that. I enjoyed it. I wish it would have been two weeks later when my season was done. Yeah. Because all I wanted to do was sit in that room and listen to them read the shitty bits, the good bits. I'm obsessed with comedians.

You want to go to the after party and the state of the end? I was gone. That sucks. I had to play on Tuesday. That was Saturday, obviously, right there in the name. And then I had to leave. So I got into Houston at like 3 a.m. that morning. It was incredibly fun.

Poorly timed. It was amazing. Who was the musical guest? Dave Matthews. Oh, who's your favorite? Yeah. At the time, at least. He was there.

It was during his solo album. Did you become bros with him over the year? We had known each other before that. My wife, if I say I'm a Dave fan, she's like, you're not a Dave fan. I'm a Dave fan. She will fight someone over. She's like, you'll see, 20 to 30 years, people will fully understand. I'm like, all right.

It's like, I don't know, you look back and I'm sure you guys have the same thing. It was a crazy moment in time where crazy, fun, weird shit was happening all the time. Oh, God, yeah. Right? And then it calms down. And it was weird. I don't have the thing where I missed it when it wasn't happening. Yeah.

I appreciated it fully. I loved it. It was great. I was always happy to have the opportunities. I like doing stuff that wasn't. normal. So you talk about the comfort zone. Being that comfort zone is the worst.

You feel anxious. Yeah. A little bit. Yeah. Yeah. It was cool. It's like the best cast ever. One other neat thing I think that I read about today that happened in your career was you had gone.

I don't know what number it was going to the finals at Wimbledon against Federer. By the way, the fact that you had to face them three times in the final. There's going to be a great movie at some point about that whole thing. It's just so incredible that you faced them three times there. You get to the top level and it's about matchups. So it just happens at this. This guy from Switzerland. Well, we talk about serve.

Pace doesn't bother him. He sees the ball earlier and he's able to accept it. It's like I say the grates, the racket is like an extension of their hand and the rest of us are grabbing the racket and then using it. It's very dense. And he's just reacting. I'm assuming it's the same as like if you're on the other side of a great actor and you're thinking about stuff and delivering stuff and they're just doing stuff. You're saying the rest of us as if you are not one? No, I'm not saying there's a tiny margin between he and.

I know I could go down the street and, like, mop-up. Yeah, like, I'm, I don't want to brag. I am one of the best players in my club. So I understand that. But as much of a difference is between me and someone who's 300, there is that much of a difference between the great. Who are the top five? Well, you have to separate.

Best three female players ever in my mind are, I have to make four. Chrissie Ever, Martina, Steffi, and Serena. And I'm going to go back. I'm going to realize it and say someone that's going to kill me. Yeah, yeah. No, don't worry. because I made you do this very fast. Novak Roger Rafa, they ruined sports for everyone else

because they were so good. Alcara's six slams already. That's like as many as icons of our sport. And like, will we get to 24? Yeah, how many of Agassi get? Eight. Yeah. So, like, Markner had seven.

Alcarez is six at 21 or 22 years old. He's that great. But also, the question is now, can you win 20? Right, right, right, right. It's like the record before those guys was 14. The last Wimbledon final I played against Roger, that was when he broke the previous record,

was in that match. So Pete Sambra's, who you don't see, is a recluse. He doesn't come to tournaments. Pete showed up for that match. Because that was his record. That was his record. So he showed up. So we're playing in front of him.

I had known Pete because I played on tour with him. It's 15. And I think the next highest active player at that point, so that would have been 09. It probably would have been Roth at like three or four. And it's like, there's no one going to be even close. Yeah. And then the two of them didn't even finish.

Then another guy comes and does it. It's just absurd. And then you throw a Serena on what she did. And it's all together. And it's just like, we're spoiled by greatness. Then you tend to look at someone who won four or the commentators are disparaging someone who's 20 in the world during a live broadcast.

I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about? Yeah. Tell a better story. Yeah. Yes. But that's the match actually that I'm referencing because something really cool happened, which is he wins. He sets this new record.

The Brits go crazy. They're chanting, fetter, fatter, fatter. And then there's a beat, and then they start chanting your name, which is like unconventional. which is radical like i think everyone was like fuck me he played an incredible match we respect this guy so much even in second place you also in your interview after it made almost the entire focus on pete sampras for being there the way people regarded your sportsmanship was so admirable and then you got home to new york and you were in a apple store like three days later

and people were coming up to you and being like oh was tough match and you realize and you In that moment, it had really permeated. It had kind of transcended a bit. It changed everything. And I don't know that that happens if I win. Right. I think it gets viewed very differently than if you kind of tragically lose. I was a kid who was hot-headed, threw stuff.

Yeah, yelled at people. Yeah. So you get judged. There's a hype mechanism that my natural ability probably doesn't support. After that match, maybe you feel a little more understood. And it's not conscious because you're reacting. All you're trying to do in his speech is try to get through without breaking down. We have the most psychopathic sport ever where it's like the least.

loser has to go up and address the crowd within 10 seconds of finishing. It'd be graceful. Like, imagine going to Super Bowl trophy ceremony and having a losing team come up and give a soliloquy before. Why is that? It's absurd. For my experience with that match, you're shattered. This is like the thing.

I don't know if I'm going to get back. That was a place I hadn't been in a couple of years. It wasn't as if the other slam finals that I played and lost, I still thought I would be back there. Yeah, yeah. This one, I'm playing it actively. During the match, I don't know that. And a layer people I don't think would naturally assume I had it.

which is, it's not just about you. It feels like a very singular sport. It's just this person. But in fact, after that match, you're comforting your wife who's very, very sad. You're comforting your coach who's crying. Oh, no. I underestimated that aspect.

It's like, you're not just carrying your dream up there. You're carrying a lot of the people around you's dream on your shoulders. Well, you're also setting the tone for this point forward. But you come back to the States. I'm walking down the street in New York City. And the crew fixing the pothole and us not being a pre-referral. and us not being appreciative of them saving us time the next day or no one sees it when it's fixed.

They're going, Andy, tough one, man. Like, I'd never experienced it that in my entire life. I would imagine in that scenario you can actually feel the love. Amazing. Never in my life had I felt that. And then I pulled out of a couple tournaments, I wasn't ready to play. A month later, I show, when we play a tour of it in D.C.

Tuesday, you normally draw, I don't know, 7,000, 8,000 people, and then you get to the finals and it's full. First night, walk out, and there's 16,000 people going nuts. Yeah. Practices were different. It changed the entire thing forever, even to this day. Wow. Completely.

You don't realize that without time, right? They forced you to maybe accept the thing I was saying earlier, which is like, am I worthy of love if I'm not a champion? Oh, wow, I am. That's nice. It was something completely unexpected. Okay. So, yeah, you're gone for 10 years.

You didn't play really for 10 years after retirement. No, I would play like customer tennis where you get paid to go do this thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Have he played with Bill Gates? I have not. No, he's our rich friend if he wants to connect. Yeah. But I didn't like play play.

If I went out, I stunk. I'm sure there's like an element of stand-up where you can know you weren't great. Right, right, right. But maybe they don't know you weren't great or type things. But I didn't play. I never played at home for fun. I played transactional completely for 10 years. Got it.

So what is the wake up where all of a sudden you get kind of back interested in it? I can't stop playing. No. Oh, you can't stop playing. I play all the time. Really? Is it the same thing? You woke up one day and you're like, I'm ready again.

No. Body starts breaking down at a certain point. I basically have this. This thing is like, okay, I probably have however many years to be athletic. But then you go out and hit, the feedback is like, it actually makes sense. It's listening again. And you kind of get addicted in a great way. That feeling of, oh, I'm relearning this thing.

I know how it's supposed to feel. Sometimes it feels that way. And it's like the best. But there's no consequence. So I've never ever in my life, this thing that I love, I've never lived it without consequence. And it's the best. It's the best. I'm not nervous.

I don't care. There's no pressure. I'm playing a bunch of dickheads. It's great. You're playing for the right reason, which is the sensation of being competent. You don't go home to anyone who cares about how you did that day. But it's amazing. It's the best.

But then you start kind of tweeting prolifically about tennis. You're starting to get more in the national conversation about tennis as it is today. Ultimately, you start served your podcast. But what are the little steps before you start served? So I say this sensitively. I don't know that I would have gone back to kind of the front facing side of tennis, had it not been for COVID, where it's like they have nothing live to show on tennis channel. And I remember I looked at the emails and it was like, oh, we should be through this in six weeks.

Six weeks to two years. Yeah, yeah, right? So basically it's setting precedent for working from home. Because my whole thing was like, I don't want to sacrifice geography. I did 45 weeks a year. I'm never doing that again. Had you already moved to North Carolina? Yes.

So I start going on there, just basically reading the phone book because events aren't being played. Top 10, best places to play, you know, after a mimosa, whatever it is. So on just doing that. And then they start regular programming. You basically get to the point where it's like, okay, Earth pays attention to tennis for like eight weeks a year, the four slams. It's a lot of runway for people that are like kind of nerdy about it. Yeah.

And that's not being addressed. There's no place to consume a story on a Tuesday. And so it's like there's no cost to it. I'm preaching to you about your business. But you can start something up. You don't need permission. You don't need someone to put you on. You can go for an hour or you can go for three hours.

There's no rules. It's the best. You are self distributing and you do whatever you want to do. Basically, we just thought there was a lot of football field. left and so we did that and you've done a lot of fun stuff with the show a you've interviewed a lot of really famous and interesting how do you and agassi get on you had him on he's my idol he's my hero that incredible doc extremely flawed and he'll be the first to tell you why yeah yeah or how being around him when i was 17 it was a little freeing because fully aware of his flaws but also

capable of this greatness and when you're 15 16 17 you're like oh the people that are that good successful for that long have to be perfect right right it was a great lesson we're as close as we've ever been and at some point in the last three or four years when we've been around each other a bunch it went from like okay i don't feel like a kid around him anymore i don't feel like i'm the nine year old who is wearing all the unfortunate spandex with it uh-huh right day glow orange yeah yeah and so we text all the time he's a friend yeah yeah he came on our show him sitting down i mean you get to experience it every week but digging into people's psyche they're brains and that was kind of the biggest one because I knew where to go. Yeah, the reward of it,

I think, is like, to have someone trust you is a very beautiful feeling. I know that I'm not as good as Andre. I'm not as good as Roth. I'm not as good as all these people, but I understand the things they're describing. Absolutely. Very well. Yeah. Patterns and processes and how we view things differently. We could be remembering the same match and think about it completely differently. Yeah, that's fascinating. Both maybe be experts in our own way, but I'm like, why do you think that? It's amazing. It's like the biggest high ever. It's basically I found a way to get paid to ask these people the questions that I want to ask them that I would never ask them in private. Right, right, right, right, to nerd out.

It's the best. Yeah, I agree. You too haven't figured out. Did you see the talk about Agassi? What's the untold one? That was with Marty Fish. Yeah, and you were in that, right? Yes.

So that's the guy where I served against the silver medal. We watched that together. Is that the one where it talks about him dealing with his wig? That's Agassi. I don't know the doc, but his book open. is my favorite sports book of all time. I got to read that. I saw a great doc, and he was incredibly honest.

And again, there was some really, really important match. And, you know, he's dealing with the secret he has that he's going bald and he's wearing. He wears a hairpiece and he has the bandana. Famous for like this big moulet, jean shorts, like rebel, renegade. Back when the culture in the 80s was like, you dress in all white. Yeah. He was like, fuck this on its head, long hair, jean shorts to play matches in. Wow.

He's like one of the first brands, you know, he was a brand. and something has gone wrong with the wig and the thing and he keeps in the files of a friendship open he has like pinned on me he can feel it like coming off so all this poor guy is thinking about

during that match he gets routed that and again you talk about what was happening the match like that dude until he tells that story he's like that guy has no idea what happened in that match

he's having this fucking complete collapse of identity the other guy's giving himself credit he's like I've completely taking this guy out of his game I am all this guy's thinking about is his hair I am a strategic

surgeon. I had so much empathy for him. And it's, everything's just so fucking human. And you project under these people like, well, he's agassi. He feels 20 feet tall. No, we are all terribly insecure. We all don't think we're worthy of love. What's this? We all have this fucking racket. Pun intended. You have to read his book. Your thing about not feeling like you're deserving of love, he opens the book with like, I hate tennis. Wow. And he's like, because it caused so much stress in my family. He goes, now I'm good at it. I respect it. I've now got. gotten to the point where he can have a relationship with it that's yeah but he's like semi-healthy he goes you can't tell me that i shouldn't hate it when you haven't lived through the personal

side wasn't worth the other side you can't tell me how to gauge those things yeah yeah he had some wild times out there in nevada or wherever the fuck he was living yeah his dad was a Iranian boxer worked the door at caesar's okay let's go okay so i know that one of your goals and missions and you just stated it which is there's a billion viewers throughout the year and there's 29 million people that play this sport and yet it's relatively very small on the television front so people watch these four events they watch the french open the australian open wimbledon and the u.s open yeah so in your opinion how did they better the experience for the fan how did they get people interested in these non grand slam tournaments i can go off on this

in a million different directions you can't have an 11 and a half month season and expect people to be committed when it's not in front of them. In order to have a conversation that's realistic and in the right actual spirit of change, the tour runs independently from the ITF, which is in charge of the protocols for the Olympics, which is in charge of drug testing, which is separate from the grand slams, which is separate from the team events, which is separate from the everyone fighting for those couple of weeks. So everyone agrees everything needs to be shorter. Everyone agrees these changes and no one is willing to give. And so then you bring in money from other parts of the world,

everyone's reacting to like, is that going to set off? Is that what has happened? Are the Saudis entering this space as well? But it's just everyone lives in their own silo. The biggest properties, which are the slams, aren't in control or don't really care about how tennis is delivered throughout the year. So when ESPN comes in and buys only the slam rights, whoever's negotiating that deal doesn't sell them the Monday night game with two losing teams in December, that's a mistake.

Right. So there have been a lot of mistakes where, How ESPN doesn't cover the lead-in events to the Grand Slams? So they need a collective bargaining so that they can lift the lower. There's no independent representation for the players. So what you asked is a loaded question with a million layers, right? With like you just scraped an onion. Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

Here's what I think is really. beautiful about the sport that I don't think is played up enough. It's kind of the most meritocracy. Totally. Sport there is. You think so? 100%. Because this weekend when F1 races, a guy on the Haas team, he can't beat Max.

He doesn't have the car. Well, that one is specifically hard. But it goes all the teams. You're on the Yankees. They have a bigger budget. They have more players. If you enter this tournament with the 260 people that enter, everyone has literally a shot to be the champion that weekend.

And that's so rare in any sport. People will tell me the tough losses, it's unfair. It's unfair. It's the most fair. You never walk off feeling like maybe it was a bad call. But the scale of unfairness in tennis is tiny. Compared to almost everything. You cannot make an argument for scale in tennis and it being unfair. Yes.

It's not unfair at scale. I guess golf shares that as well. But that's even different. Like, you can have course setups that are lucky. The PGA moves every year. If you catch a run of courses you like that fit your game. Right. A tennis score is a tennis score other than the surfaces.

But the surfaces, they're not changing as much, right? You know what it is. You know the cities they're going to be played in 10 years from now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, it's just going to be that way. What about who you're paired up with? But that's luck of the draw. It's like flipping a coin and being ahead two at the end of 10 flips, that'll even out.

And there's no manipulation in it. So the NFL is, it's random. That's true. The NFL is explained to us by the wonderful guys from Acquired. The goal of the NFL is, is that mid-season, every team is 500. With scheduling, you mean? That in the middle of the season,

every team would have a 500 record. Every great team at the beginning of the season plays all their hardest games. It's not just random and it's not like to the draw. It's a business. It is manipulated so that hopefully at the middle of the season, everyone has 500. And also, it's just different

because you all have a tough scheduled season where the people you play are 10 games above 500. So that's like a really rad aspect of tennis. You're good enough or you're not good enough. There's no nepotism in tennis. Right. Right. There's no team spending.

I mean, you could have better coaches, whatever, but. If you have federations, it's not non-existent, but the narrative of tennis, like, and how much it costs and all this, I don't know. You see all these other travel sports with kids and stuff, and I'm going, I don't think that's true anymore. I think we're just being lazy about what was said during the 90s. Right.

Kind of. I mean, you look at our icons. We talked about Agassi's father. You talk about Venus and Serena. You talk about Novak Djokovic from war-torn Serbia. Yeah, true. And then you tell me that only, fuck, no, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's not it.

Maybe gymnastics is comparable in that way. You're either good enough or you're not. And you don't need a full team to get to the highest level. Yeah. It's just a really rad part that I feel like they're not telling the story enough. They're not amping that up. You know, they're not doing the prelude to that. And this guy's on a run.

And he's only ranked this, but this could be his weekend. Building in the human drama of it. I once had a, you know, like people who are really great of their job are able to take complex concepts and make them into like a sound bite. Yeah. So I had a quick lunch with Al Michaels. And I was going over to cover a match for BBC at Wimble He goes, just whatever you do, don't tell me what's happening.

Tell me why it's happening. Ah, great. And it was like, very clear. Yeah. My job's to tell you what the score is. Your job's to tell me why the score is what it is and what needs to change for it to change. To your point, I don't think we often, in tennis, which we try to do on our show, why is this happening? Why is it a difficult matchup?

Why is it someone's a good forehead, good back, and no, the forehand in different spots and regions on the court. You can actually manipulate. It's not all the same. This show matchpoint that Box-a-box does. I think that's what it's called. That's great. Because, again, it introduces you to the personalities. Why did F1 explode, drive to survive?

These guys wear helmets. You can't root for a dude who's a face you've never seen. You don't know a story. So it's like, that needs to get infused, obviously. But yeah, it is such a pure and wonderful sport. Yeah. The mental fuck of it, man.

I don't know that there's a sport like that. The mental of that game is just insane. It's like chess. There's no other sport where you can't really talk to anyone. It's just you. You're just there. I didn't know it was weird, and now I know it's weird. Yeah.

I sat up in the stands of the U.S. Open last year and was just catching a match. And I'm, like, just watching these two people go about their thing. Like, this is a weird sport. We're watching almost like a very private thing. But even the locker rooms on the last day. So you get there day one, and it's a train station. People from the qualifying tournament, 128 main draw, double. There's hundreds of players in this locker room.

It's like the first day of college class. Yeah. Where everyone's drop out. I can only assume that's the case. I don't think of experience, but then you walk in the last day, and it's just you and one other person. Oh, that is so weird. So quiet.

Oh, my God. It's like squid games. And it happens. It is. Every day you lose, you lose, you lose, yeah. Every day you lose like a quarter of the draw. Whoa, yeah, that's such a mindset. Just chook people in a locker room.

It's so weird. Yeah, that is so weird. Like you walk in. Wow. Then you, like, walk past the person. It's like, hey. Hey, this is stressful. So awkward.

Have a good day. I mean, don't. I don't know. I know. Yeah, what do you say? Good luck, actually, no. Eat shit? Can't say that either?

One of the things people aren't loving about your show is that you're not afraid to take people to task. Ooh. I do want you to just tell me, what's this situation with this billionaire, Bill Ackman? That's what I thought you were talking about when you was like billionaire. You said, so. Oh, and I said Bill Ackman. So, Bill Ackman, one, he's funding a lawsuit against the ATB tours, basically saying there aren't enough jobs and a bunch of other things. And not a lot of people have signed up.

They basically have this thing that they say they're a player's union, but the players haven't agreed to it. Right. So I'm like, I don't know where that leaves us. So we had like a contentious with his CEO from that thing like a year ago on our show. So Bill is obviously brilliant at what he does. He's a brilliant investor. Polarizing half the country likes what he says. Half the country doesn't. Fancy's himself like a tennis player. It's like I'm good. One thing I don't want to do is make someone into a cartoon because he's very serious accomplished great at what he does. That's good. And takes a wild card into like a pro event and it was the Hall of Fame. And I love the people at the Hall of Fame. And I love the people at the Hall of Fame. strongly disagreed with him on air, strongly disagreed with him behind the scenes and every conversation I have. We've made our piece. I went to the induction last. We were great.

And I said on the show, and I believe it, it was a minor league event. Who's Jack Sock? That was his doubles part. He's the guy who's won a couple of majors and doubles. Was a good singles player, well known.

He's a ringer. Yes. What's that mean? What do we mean? Brought in with an unfair advantage. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. But not even because he's not even on tour anymore.

It'd be like AAA baseball. Great players striving to make a living, do their thing, that's what we're talking about. Yes. Bill Ackman decides he's going, it'd be like him going and saying like, I'm 60 years old, I'm a great pitcher. I'm going to go pitch in a AAA baseball game.

Right. And I think I can do it well. The other guys are playing, like the memes are incredible. One of them set to the Kirby enthusiasm theme song where it's like they're just hitting the ball back to them. And so I just went on and like I said, this is the biggest clown show I've ever seen in pro tennis. It's shameful. You can't tell me people should have more jobs and then take one of the spots that week. Like, it's just there are parts that I don't like.

And if Bill wants to do it, Bill can do it. My personal belief, and I'm going to get texts from the Hall of Fame. I don't believe that the Hall of Fame should have allowed it. I think it's beneath the Hall of Fame. Your job is to preserve and celebrate greatness. This was not it by a long shot. This was a stunt. I said what I said.

I went in the studio hot. Good for you. I didn't talk about it again. I thought it was very funny. It was a clown show. Okay, very last thing. I just think it's funny that, or I like that Austin's such a home base for you. I was held on moving to Austin.

And then what I was also debating is like, or do I go to Asheville? And I love Asheville. We ended up in Nashville and I love that. But you have a place in the Blue Ridge, yeah. So I'm going mid-October with my best friend from Detroit. We're going to leave Nashville, ride motorcycles, be stationed in Nashville. And then do rides every day out of there. And just how lovely is the Blue Ridge.

Oh, my goodness. Blue Ridge Mountains is heaven. We don't have each other. Get it off. I'm going to send you places you need to stop. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do the whole thing. It's magic. Honestly, there's no better thing that just like, get it.

outside and feeling small. Yeah. It's the best. We spent our summers up in this place and you look at like a bald face rock and our kids go and throw rocks at streams all day. I took my daughter when she was three, just the two of us went to Asheville. I went to Loken Glass Falls, sliding rock. And he was sat in a river for like seven hours and played. And I'm like, this place calls me. This is special. So I don't know, in that way, I feel like we're a long-lost brothers because we're being pulled to all the same places. Everybody listened to Served with Andy Roddick. You have the number one tennis podcast for a reason. I hope everyone checks it out and this has been goddamn delightful i appreciate you guys it's fun i had to like check

myself i'm such a huge fan of the show so i'm really happy to be on thank you all right be well cheers thank you we hope you enjoyed this episode unfortunately they made some mistakes i'm gonna tell you this has lifted my spirits i want to thank you oh good yeah yeah yeah i'm happy about that yeah i entered feeling like i was dying yeah and now i feel happy good conversation can do that especially when it's revolving around Travis's penis oh that's that's is that what did it no it's just a lot of laughing and you said i had spray on my lip well which i did technically you did uh nicotine spray not that's spray spray that's right and not pee from your catheter.

Nope, not orange. McDonald's orange. Did you? Did I want to save some? I want to taste it. Oh. Rob, will you put a picture up of the McDonald's orange drink just so we can check in with the color? Because I want you to know.

Yeah, you see that orange drink. Yeah. And that's not orange soda? I think it's high sea, maybe. It's more like a high seat. I remember at a birthday party, you could get the big jug. big McDonald's cooler right a dispenser and dump the powder in and then the water and then it was you know that was the orange drink okay so I don't think it was carbonated okay but they probably

did have orange soda as well in the fountain we moved past yeah we're gonna move on well no no I have one more question though okay because we did move past me being correct about the UTI oh uh-huh Because when you were in pain, I was like, it kind of sounds like a UTI, and sometimes some men do get them sometimes. Sure. Were you like, I don't want a UTI, that's a women's thing. Did you feel emasculated a little bit? No, which is not to say I couldn't. Sure.

But, you know, all these things is like, what's the chain of events? Yeah, what happened? Right. Like if you have an infection in your prostate and then that gets into your urethra. that then you have a UTI like is it a UTI that then somehow infected my prostate or did I have prostateis which in fact and I don't think we'll ever know but because it's not obvious to me I didn't go down the path of like Jesus how to get a UTI I fucked the guy and I didn't pee afterwards exactly that's generally how the women I know in my life get it well no you can get it a lot of ways

you could have it could have been sorry it could have been a wiping situation I don't want you don't wipe your penis. I think you accidentally got some duty. No, Monica. Okay, okay. I'm just, okay. I did not.

That would be impossible. No, it's not impossible. You could have dutied. As we talked about, you duties sometimes in the toilet. Yeah. And then maybe just the penis hit it on really quickly. And. Oh, it like bounced into the bowl.

And it touched just a very dude. I still think. And this is why. guys don't get it as much. Yeah. We have a lot bit longer distance between there and the bladder where you need the UTI to really take. That's right. Fine purchase. And wiping is a different scenario, but that's why I don't think this was wiping. I would have peed, you know, the odds of that in your hypothetical making it's way all the way up to my bladder are very low, which is why I think it's rare that guys get it. Right. But people have got to be tired of my medical condition. So

normally UTIs are first and then it starts. spreading everywhere. Okay. And that's bad. Okay. Well, the guy did say the prostate is hard to get medicine into, and it's hard for infection to get out of it. Yeah.

It's really, it's in its own little universe. Stuburn. Yeah, it's got like a nice, I guess, protective barrier. It lives on its own island, physically and emotionally. I think people are up for a GLP1 update. I've heard people ask, like, hey, what's the updates? And I certainly would like one. Okay.

Well, we can do a mini update because we're probably going to have Dr. Isaacson on a fact check coming up to talk about all of our blood results. Oh, yeah, yeah. He says we both have interesting results. And so I'm curious what that will be. Interesting is. When we first got our results after the first cognitive test and he did all the blood work and went through it all, he basically said I was a medical marvel. Okay I forget why

Uh huh It wasn't the Was it a good kind of medical marvel? Yeah Oh it was It was like Really unique stuff was happening I think anomaly might be a better word than Marvel

I prefer Medical Marvel And one thing I don't remember if we talked about this back then But they found randomly This one little like Gene

one little elevation in numbers on this one little thing and no one would really look at it because who cares but they looked and then they did a deep dive and that correlates to uh late onset epilepsy whoa really whoa isn't that crazy wow so in a world of where crisper's over the counter do you think you get that gene edited out and you go off of your capra and your wow that's a great question because what i feel safe enough to go off of the medicine even if I knew the gene itself was cut out. Because you got to remember in order. It's like you went on capra and then you needed to go on antidepressants. Or I shouldn't say needed. No, I did. I did need to. And then you went on antidepressants.

Yeah. But we have different, I think, well, look, Kepra, uh, Kepra can be associated with depression. Uh-huh. But I believe deeply. that that was that just again it was I had a seizure I had to put on this medication COVID started right away started it so much was happening that it just pushed me over the edge yeah hard to parse out it's hard to parse out I knowing me knowing my family history yeah I believe I needed antidepressants before that yeah and would have needed it regardless uh-huh

But who knows? Who knows? And I wonder if I would feel safe enough to get off of it. Also, antidepressants often cause weight gain. Mm-hmm. Right? They can, yes, they can. And then there's a fourth thing in the mix that causes weight reduction.

You know, at least from my perspective, it does look like there could be a whole chain of events that starts with one thing. Yeah. It would be interesting if you didn't have that one thing. thing what where we're at with all the other stuff i don't know i don't know either i don't know i know for sure that being on the tris has not impacted my mood for a while i was like oh we call it's appetite triz oh yeah um like it i think for a while i thought oh maybe there'll be a reduction in anxiety or depression because I had heard that there might be some things there. Sure.

That is not the case. But again, I think that's like if one of your things is you're in a constant shame spiral that you've eaten in a way that you don't want to eat but you keep eating and this thing stops that, then of course it's going to impact depression. Right. But you were not, you're not there. That's not you. Yeah, correct.

You weren't like living in any shame spiral. I mean, the drinking was, that was, that's part of the mix. And that's been interesting to follow that whole journey. That was one of the main reasons I wanted to do it was to see my relationship with it. And at first, I did notice a change. I think what I said was I was drinking less. Frequency the same. Exactly.

Amount is less. With dosage lowered. And I think that's still correct. I think for sure. I reached my capacity sooner earlier, but it's still, I still drink every day, basically. So that's been kind of a bummer. A letdown. But part of that is like, it's mental.

Like there will be, and this is bad, but there will be times where I'm like, I'm not even, I'm not even in the mood to drink. Like, I don't really want to, but I'm here and I will. Yeah. So that's. whatever that is i don't know what that is habit i guess or just oh we're out like i might as well look at charlie sheen they tie did you finish the doc no the craziest thing is no one could get him off crack they come figure out how to get him off crack yeah so they convinced his dealer because his dealer loved him yeah to start titrating so because you make coke out of cocaine right i'm sorry you make

crack out of cocaine uh-huh he could add however much baking soda he wanted to dilute it. And over the course of a year, he just reduced the crack to having almost no cocaine in it. Wow. And eventually, and then Charlie's just thinking, well, I've reached the capacity. It can no longer get high. And he stopped. Really? Yeah, he's just like, I don't know why the fuck I'm doing this. It doesn't do anything. And then he switched it drinking. Then it became a really bad alcoholic for a year or two. But they got him off of crack by tricking him and titrating him. Whoa. So what's interesting is you're at the point, where it's like you've kind of been titrated

in a way that you're like, I don't even really want it. Yeah. But just the muscle memory and habit is like, but I'm going to do it. Yeah. But it's interesting if someone could trick you the same way.

Right. And all of a sudden it had no alcohol in it. I think I would still do it. You'd still do it. Yeah. Like right now, I'm like. I'm in. Sounds good.

Yeah. It's, it's weird. It's weird. I have noticed like, oh, I don't really. okay sure i'll get a martin like that's how it that's i'm not craving it i guess in the same way so that is interesting it's just so social yeah it's such it's a good it's not even that it's a good time i mean it is a good time but it's what you do just what you do it's something to have in your hand it's something i don't know maybe i'm maybe i'm heading towards sobriety doesn't sound like it

based on everything. Well, you're on a medicine. Yeah. But also, I have definitely lost weight. Uh-huh. We don't know how much. It was not the goal, and I don't know how much because I don't wait myself. But what's interesting is Dr. Isaacson did weigh us on intake, but we didn't get weighed at this.

I know. So I think we need to get weighed. He's going to want to know that. I mean, I'm kind of dying to know what the difference is for you. I'm curious. I think you've lost about 65 pounds. this is like could be the biggest minefield ever to play a game of like how much do you think I lost I know no 60 70 pounds I don't know what do you think there's a lot of traps in this in this conversation because I in like I don't mean to like trigger anyone I'll just I can only talk about me and my body yeah I'm already I'm small I've always been small yeah so because somebody asked like oh have you had to go down and size on your in on your pants People are going to hate me for saying this.

No, because I already wore the smallest size. Okay, right. There's nowhere else to go. So, yeah. So it's not like, oh. Are you safety pinning any of you? So yesterday I did put on a pair of pants and I was like, oh, they, like, they are about to fall off. So I am, you know, I've lost weight in a way that I don't want to lose more weight.

I don't want that. Like I, I, my parents, I saw my parents for, you know, my aunt. And my mom, first thing, my mom saw me and she said, you've lost a lot of weight. And I was like, no, I don't think so since summer. And she was like, yes, I think so. And then I went into the next room and saw my dad at first thing he said. Okay, but here's, okay, there's a lot going on here. A, they're like, they're already dealing with something of sadness.

So, like, is she depressed? Is that the explanation for the weight loss? Oh, sure. So that's an obvious fear. Yeah. But I'll add that when I go back to Michigan, I used to go back to Michigan. Yeah. And people treated me like I had full-blown eight.

They're like, why are you so thin? Like, totally concerned. Right. And I was like, I just got to acknowledge, like, the baseline of what way too thin is in L.A. is just way different. Yes. And truthfully, I'm with like six of my friends growing up. And they've all got that, you know, they're all hovering around 2.35 and they got a nice gut they've earned.

And that is how you look. So when you don't have it, it looks crazy to them. It'd be one thing if it was the other family members who said that. But my parents do see me a fair. They saw me in the summer. And they have seen. I, again, I've always been small. So it's not like they're like, why aren't you looking thicker? Like, I, I think to them it was drastic. Yeah. Whatever. That's whatever. The weight.

Except, I will be honest, and Dr. Richard Isaacson is really not going to like this. But it is the truth. I have lost a lot of muscle. Oh, uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah. And that is bad. And I, the whole, I've been trying, you know, trying to actively build bone density.

Yeah. Farmers carries. I haven't done farmers carries. I'm afraid to ask you, but how much effort have you put into muscle retention? No, because now they're too heavy. Shit. Okay. So now we're in a weird.

Now I don't really know what to do because I'm weaker. Oh, boy. I'm definitely weird. There is a new one, as you know. There's a new one that you're going to be able to switch to very shortly that specifically. that specifically prevents that muscle loss. Oh, really? Yeah, there's a new one.

I'm seeing different people on my feed talk about it. Okay. And I guess it's close to being approved, but yeah. It's like a triple inhibitor. Oh, it's a GLP3? Yeah, well, it's like semi-glutide plus this, plus that. And it does counter that muscle loss issue that is quite prevalent. Okay, that's interesting.

Yeah. But it's hard because what I like about this GLP1 is I do, I feel safe on it. Like there's been at this point so many studies you've had enough people on that have been like, it's pretty good. So to do this other one feels a little more risky. Yeah. I should probably just try to do more farmers carries, but they're so heavy. Yeah. Oh boy.

I'm like starting to get nervous you're going to fall down in your apartment and just will be like I can't get it. I did. I will. You shouldn't have lost your ability

to carry those things you could carry two months ago. I know. But I was stronger. Right. But you didn't, you needed to stick with it a little more,

I think. I don't know how to say this, but you were heavy. Yeah, but they wouldn't have been heavy if you kept, if you never stopped. I know,

but I know, but then I was tied. Like, if I don't squat for a month and a half, I'm not going to be able to go squat 250 like my normal thing. I'm going to have to drop down. But you can, within a couple of weeks, you can be back. I can work my way back. I can't. Yeah.

I have to start off with fives. Whatever it takes. And then next week you do, 10. I do. I need to. I need to. I am a little nervous about the lack of muscle. I don't want you to. I know.

I'm aware of it. bad. That's the one thing before I got on it, Dr. Richard Isison was very clear that I needed to monitor the muscle and make sure I was, and I didn't do it. I didn't do it. Look, we're not perfect. Okay. I know that. I have to get back on that. And I will. I have been really tired. Maybe I just have a bug. But there are these weird cycles where like you're eating less and so you have less energy and so you don't want to work out. You have less. Like, that part's bad. I do need to break that cycle. I have been going to bed at seven for the past couple nights and sleeping to like eight. I have two, but I'm dying. I know, you're sick.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I have thought, like, this isn't exactly right. I'm a little concerned with these updates. Going to bed at seven. It was weird. I can't live five pounds. I weigh somewhere around.

76 pounds and but I'm still drinking the only thing I'm the only thing I'm still committed to because I am even I don't even want him but I get through it I force it down stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare Oh, no, but you know what? I think you got to try the Mel Robbins 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 approach to this. Okay. Which is her first book, and she became wildly popular over. Easter egg.

Well. Which is. When is it an Easter egg and when am I just telling people? Well, that's, yeah. That's the question. That's too big of an Easter egg. If I say Mel Robbins and then you say Easter egg. But her thing is, you think of what you want to do.

and I want to get out of bed. And then you start thinking, it's cold out there. I don't want to get out of bed. As soon as your brain starts, you're not going to get out of bed. But the second, if you can start training yourself, the second you ever thought, like, I should do farm, you'll be sitting in your husband. I should do some farmer carries. And then immediately go five, four, three, two, one and on one stand up and do it. Oh.

Because you're interrupting that cycle of convincing yourself not to do the thing you know you have to do. I like that. She's like, people are just waiting for motivation to hit them. And it doesn't. That's not what happens. You have to interrupt. And this is a very well-worn technique that works. Okay.

So I don't know. Report back. Let's see. Try the 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. The second you think of something, just immediately go 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 and stand up and do it. Okay. So it'll be like. I don't really want a martini.

Five, four, three, two, one. Shake, shake, shake, shake. You're already doing it somehow with not wanting the martini and having it. No, this is good. That's helpful. That's good for my farmer's carries. But I got to, the problem is, you encouraged me when I was very strong to do 240s. And I could do that.

Yeah. I bought those. Now I don't have the right equipment. I don't have like 2.30. Right, but just I think a standard farming carry goal is your body weight. Right, which I don't know what that is. Well, you know it's above 80 pounds. Yeah.

So listen, 80's not too heavy for you. It's just you're not going to be doing it as long as you want to. But you got to do it. You just do that weight and do it for however long you can count. And then next time you got to do it one second longer. Okay. All right. I'll try.

Okay. I can't do it right now because we're in the, I can't do it. Five, four. Five, if you just stood up. You go five, four, and then you just left. Well, all right. I do. Okay, so those are the updates.

Like, I guess they're mixed. Yeah, it's mixed. Yeah. And when we get our blood work, we'll know more. Yeah. And I am really, really curious about that. I'm very curious about my cholesterol. Yeah.

And even blood sugar and things like that. Yeah, me too. So TBD on that. TBDZ. So for this motorcycle trip. Yeah. I'm going to send you a picture, Rob. Can you put it on the screen?

Sure. Can you want me to email it? Yes, please. Okay. Yeah, you're going on a trip. Yeah, this is so exciting. I'm so lucky and spoiled. I want to own this.

Because if I was a dude listening to say, I'd be like, you know, fuck you. You have money. But I have great relationships with all these different motorcycle manufacturers. Yeah. I go to track events with them. I'll be in their videos, whatever. And so people loan me stuff. Yeah.

Which is so awesome. Yeah. Sustainable. Very sustainable. And I have a motorcycle down in Tennessee. I have a gorgeous motoguzzi. I have not gotten the title yet to plate it. So it's like I've got this great tour bike that I'm dying to ride on this motorcycle

trip. And I can't ride it because there's no plates. Oh. You're going to let that stop you? Well, I'm like, well, I wasn't going to. I was like, okay, I'm going to bring a plate from one of my other motorcycles and just slap it on there and then pray I don't get pulled over or if I get pulled over. The guy doesn't know the difference between a motogutsi and a ducati.

Of course I was going to go the outlaw route. But then the responsible part was me was like, hey, you've got a couple good relationships. Why don't you see if you can borrow a bike while you're down there? Also, a lot of these places are based in Atlanta. So it's like not that far. So I was able to borrow two motorcycles for Aaron and I. Because also Aaron was going to drive 600 miles on his motorcycle. He was going to ride for basically 12 hours to my house and then get up in the morning and

ride with me for 400 miles. And then he at the last minute, he's like, I can't do it. I'm going to rent a truck and I'm going to put the motorcycle. And then I was like, hold on. Let me just see if I, and then you could fly in. It'd be so much easier. I got this super awesome Harley Pan America, which I had, I've never ridden. And they've gone full gusto.

It's super fast, crazy good brakes. I'm really excited. And then, and if anyone is into motorcycles, growing up, you're like a gold wing. That's like a grandpa's motorcycle. Okay. It's like catheter. It's like a catheter. I don't want to say that because Honda is their loan to mean I love Honda yes so growing up you're like oh yeah that's that's for old guys so I hit Honda up I'm like hey do you have anything in the fleet and then my man said I'm going to pitch you the gold wing like for this kind of ride I'm just going to consider the gold wing and I was like you know what I think I am up for a gold wing so this is a big moment for me okay okay Rob please show the picture so the gold wing arrived yesterday

Monica, look at this motorcycle. Look how big the back seat is. Rob Zoom. First of all, it's a six-cylinder motorcycle, which is bonkers. What is that? Dukottis are like generally twins, two cylinders. Maximum four in line. This is a six-cylinder.

And this back seat, so I sent this picture to Aaron. Yeah, looks like a first-class plane seat. Absolutely. Even the rider's seat is incredible. And then you see the speakers built in? I've got like a huge sound system. Oh. I sent this picture to Aaron and immediately we both had the same thought.

We were like, why are we going to bring two motorcycles? You guys are going to ride TAM? Look at this thing. Isn't it begging for just the two of us to be on this motorcycle? Oh my God. Look at that back seat. Where do you use? Is the back seat where you said?

No, you see that big backrest? That's the passenger. Then you look lower. That's where my butt goes. There's a little lip. I'll point. Oh. This is for the passenger.

Oh my God. Yes, and I'm thinking, I think I'd rather be a passenger on this thing with Aaron riding and me just sightseeing the fall colors. Yeah, so I'm entering the gold wing phase of my life. Wow. I'm done being cool. You're ready for comfort. Oh, my God. I just, that thing looks so fucking comfortable.

It might ride itself there. Wow. Yeah. Oh, my God. All right. I just want to show you. That's going to be cute, you two on there to. together. I mean, we're going to bring the second one or second. But who knows, we might do,

you know, because we're going to do rides every day and come back to Asheville. Yeah. We might take a two-up ride one of these days. Are you guys going to stay in a cute hotel? Yeah, yeah. We got a cute little. No, the vacancy was almost non-existent because people do go there for the colors. I realized because I searched everywhere and I was two months out when I booked this. And there was slim fucking pickings, but we're in a cool little boutique. hotel downtown and then i hit up our sweet boy luke combs oh yeah asheville native yeah i said where should i eat and he's like boom boom boom the ribs here are impossibly good yum go here for fish not gonna happen but whatever you could try it not gonna try it you could enter

that phase of your life too i've tried it okay okay facts okay thanks for indulging my motorcycle yeah that's fun i'm excited to hear i hope you guys are careful i have to say Yeah, we will be. And I hope you have so much fun. Thank you. Wow. That was a fun one. It was. And it's fun to have sports experts on, like athletes. I would guess they're called athletes. He was also very mature, was my conclusion. I was like, I felt like we were peers, but I am nine years older than him. Oh, well, he's lived just such a big life. Yeah. And he does have a very evolved perspective on it, I think. I agree. Yeah. I enjoyed him a lot. I felt, we felt contemporary, but we weren't. Well, at what age are you not like? Well, let's just put it this way. I was graduating when he was in third grade. I know, but once you hit a certain age, when are you not contemporary?

It does diminish. Yeah. Like a 60-year-old and a 50-year-old are far different than a 10-year-old and a 20-year-old. Exactly. I think when you're over 40. Yeah. I think if you're 40 or above, you're all the same. I saw a really comforting graph this morning.

I think it was in the New York Times. And it was, oh, yeah, because Harvard has done, like, a very, very long study on a lot, a lot of people about happiness. So all this data has come out of this, the happiness study at Harvard, I guess. Oh, and it's new? I think I'm getting that right. Well, in that there's always going to be updates, right? Because they've been studying them long term. So I'm sure there was revelations midway through the study.

Yeah. So, like, one of the fun revelations is, like, the income, achievement level of all the people in the study, which there were many, was not influenced whatsoever by their IQ. There's like no correlation. Interesting. So I love that one. Yeah.

It's like you thought you did shitty on IQ test. You didn't do good in school. It doesn't mean shit. Yeah. As far as just the least that. But anyways, in this chart I saw, there's a very predictable curve for everyone's happiness. and the lowest point across the board, men and women, is like 50, 53. And then it just starts going up and up and up.

And it gets as high as it'll ever get your happiness in your 60s. And I was like, well, that's great news. I just kind of live through or I'm currently living through the worst time. I can't even imagine how happy I'm going to be in 10 years. I really like this graph. That's weird. Makes sense for women because menopause. I wonder why men.

I think the stress of like, am I going to. going to make it. Can I support everyone? All that's on your shoulder. You're getting a glimpse of like, you made it. You're going to get across the finish line. Failure is off the table. You did it. You have a savings. You own your home. Family safe. I think a lot of the pressure that you put on yourself evaporates. Oh, you mean. Oh, you're saying professionally. No, yeah. I guess I meant why is it so low in your 50s? Yeah. Well, I think it's that, as we would say, that inflection point between I have had this identity, go build, go create, save, buy something. And then this little bit of a moment of like, for a while, again, these are like, this is

the broad arc of data, which is most people in whatever they're given profession is, generally they hit their peak financial effectiveness in their 50s. That's when people get paid. Whatever your chosen occupation is, that is where it doesn't have in your 30s or 40s, it generally happens in your 50s. And then you're halfway through life. So you're depressed. That's what I was about to say.

I bet maybe you're really like age becomes very present when you turn 50. And I'm halfway done and all I did was work. I think most people are looking at this moment going, I'm so sick of working. Yeah. It didn't make me feel awesome. And I can't quit because they're finally paying me what I deserve. And I got to get paid this number. So they might be looking at like a 10 year out window before they're happy.

Well, they're waiting for social security. They are waiting a bit. Or just your standard retirement. age. Yeah, which I think normally, I think 65s, yeah. But yeah, so that's really interesting. Yeah, so my happiest years are like ahead of me and yours too. That's great. My saddest years are ahead of me too. I don't love that. Yeah. I don't love. That's not great. That's not great. Okay. Um, they're just slightly like the graphs are slightly like the low points a little different for women than the men. But in general, it's only off by a few years, and it is the exact same

curve, right? It's like follows the same trajectory. Interesting. Also, part of it maybe is that on average, probably, around that age, 50, 53, your kids are maybe leaving, not here in this case, not in L.A., but on average in the country, probably that age your kids might be heading out on their own. Yeah. That's depressing. You've probably just gotten through the teenage years or, yeah, exactly. Huh, very interesting.

Yeah. But all very positive and optimistic. Yeah, great. Okay. I can get through those three years. Yeah. Who can't? What will I do?

Okay. His brother went to Georgia. I just wanted to say, go dogs. Yeah, go dogs. Go dogs. But a big dogs day here in the garage. I know. That's a Easter.

I don't like saying the garage. It doesn't have the same ring as I. attic. I say garage. We can't say attic. Well, we can't say attic, so we're not in the attic. Exactly. But I wish garage had the same. And it should. Garage band, garage beer. There's a lot of cool garage. Yeah. But I don't know. You think it's, well, the attic is very special. Yeah, very few people have like an attic space that they've met a clubhouse out of. But a garage. Yeah, it's like probably a lot of people have garage podcasts. Yeah, yeah. But this is where we are. They're wearing a garage. Yeah. And you're probably upset about that because you're 50. But I'm

not yeah you haven't bottomed out yeah you're not at the nadir that's right okay his brother's name is john in case anyone wants to look him up i wonder if his brother's as cute as him and if he's single um let's see he coaches he's a coach hey most coaches are married i think yeah i think so too it doesn't say on his wikipedia i can text andy in this he's 49 oh okay i thought he's He's about to be depressed. Yeah. Shit. Okay.

Okay. Let me kick this down the road to your 48 and he's coming out the other side. What's the happy Gilmore quote? He kind of like half said a happy Gilmore quote. It's golf requires goofy pants and a fat ass. Oh. I don't even know that quote. Yeah, it's from Happy Gilmore.

Okay. Okay, yeah. So he had the record for the fastest serve. Okay. But now it's Sam Groff, and that's 163. No, 116.3. No, 163. He was 155.

Oh, my God, it's at 163 now? You're right. He had been thrown by someone at 156, but now it's jumped to 163. Yeah. Was that a Challenger event? Challengers. I love that movie. Yeah, threesomes.

I love that movie. Really hope you have a three-sum one day with a couple of, like, real dream boats. too yeah it sounds so fun like a four hands massage i mean the threesome thing is just so interesting because again it it it has to be so specific it it for me it has to be two men yeah i find extremely attractive yes and um but again what i have found in my own experiments you'll like one more than the other and then and then you're like i kind of just wish i was with this one i like well then why do you want this for me well i still want it for you It would be fun.

Sounds like a lot of anxiety. Well, maybe hopefully, best case, like, they're good at different things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So then it's very titillating. Yeah. Okay, honey deuce, he said, is a shambored, lemonade, gray goose, sprite. He pretty, I think he pretty much nailed it. Okay.

It is gray goose, lemonade, raspberry liqueur, such as shambore. Honey-Dumelan balls. This doesn't say Sprite, but he's probably right. He knows his tennis. He seems to know his shit, yeah. Yeah. I'm really excited. And you'll be seeing him next year at it.

I'm excited to one day have this. Do you know why it's called HoneyDeuce? Could you guess? I mean, deuce is part of tennis. Yeah, good job. Yeah, yeah. It's a tennis term for a Tide score 40-40. That seems like something that would come up in my minis.

I've only heard deuce. I've never heard anyone call it Honey-Duce, but that's great. Oh, no, honey because the honey-dumelon. Okay. Okay, he said Mayor Dinkins changed the flight pattern so it wouldn't fly over the U.S. Open. I thought that was so interesting for some. Yeah, yeah.

Priorities. That's so crazy. But it makes sense. And yeah, he did it. Change the flight pattern of planes over the U.S. Open in 1990 by negotiating with the Federal Aviation Administration FAA to reroute takeoffs from LaGuardia Airport to avoid the noise over Flushing Meadows Corona Park.

Just on that day, assume. Yeah. In exchange, the city agreed to pay the U.S. Tennis Association up to $325,000 annually for excessive flyovers that occurred during the tournament. That's weird. They built in a penalty. It was like a favor, and then on top of it, I'm going to penalize you if you violate it. Yeah, that's weird. Yeah. Good for them. They had a good negotiator. Okay. Silver being worse than bronze. The silver metal complex, also known as silver metal syndrome. A psychological phenomenon where second place finishers, silver medalists often appear less happy than third place bronze medalists because they engage in upward counterfactual

thinking, focusing on what they could have done to achieve the first place rather than appreciating their accomplishment. In contrast, bronze medalists tend to focus on the alternative of finishing in fourth place or not receiving a medal at all, leading to a greater satisfaction with their outcome. Yeah. So if your friend says, I have SMS, don't think like, yeah, we all have. SMS texting think they have silver metal syndrome and then you can ask if they have sad seasonal affected disorder that's right and then you can ask if they have uti urinary tract infection and you should ask because they might be struggling like you are okay I looked up the most expensive sports because we started talking about how tennis is a lot of there's a lot of meritocracy we feel like it's

pretty meritocratized meritocratic I like meritocratized okay it's not Yeah, like democratized. Yeah. To participate at the highest levels, Formula One racing, equestrian sports, polo, and competitive sailing are among the most expensive sports in the world. Yeah, those have some pretty devastating built-in costs. Exactly. These sports require massive investments in elite equipment, maintenance, logistics, and skilled personnel.

Oh, also high-cost youth sports ice hockey says an average annual cost of $2,583. per child. Isaki's rough because you've got to get ice time at places throughout the year when you're not by a frozen lake or if you live in any state without frozen lakes. Yeah. So ice time becomes really pricey. And then field hockey ice. Okay, those are youth.

Now this, it says elite level individual sports golf. Is most expensive? Yeah. It says high-end clubs can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars for a membership. Professional players pay for equipment. Caddies, coaches, travel, tournament fees, which. can exceed one million per annum what's that mean a year per atom per atom oh wow don't you like it's a gentle way to say that was cool yeah per annum um skiing is also on here and boxing as is affordable ones

no those are high okay yeah those are high they don't have boxing rings on every corner in the city but they do have parks yeah training camps sparring partners and specialized coaching and nutrition nutrition yeah well that's interesting let me see i think i got them all but let me just double check that's everything that's everything for andrew rodd oh we love them we were charmed very charmed i'm sure what is charmed i'm sure charmed i'm sure i don't get it it sounds like a sarcastic way to say you're charming is it like okay if if you're talking to me and we're shaking hands who says it like who's charmed yeah i feel like i would have i'd say it like they were charmed i'm sure by you by you yeah like you're telling me on then i met so-and-so charmed i'm sure they were i don't

know but that might not be yeah but normally it happens i feel like in a greeting like in the old times they would like greet each other and say charmed i'm sure so are they talking about themselves like i just charmed you i'm sure no no i think they're sure that they've been charmed by by their guest. Okay. They're sure of it. It's a bad grammar. They were like, let me check in.

Yeah, I feel charmed. I think we owe it to everyone at the end of this ride to compile our 50 sexiest male guests. Oh. I'm just saying that Andy's definitely on the list. 50 feels like. Too many? Yeah. You're the one that always wants me to reduce the list.

But there'll be at that point. They'll be over. Like, 1,200 guess to do 10 would be one person, half a percent. Okay. You're telling me. What do you want to keep it to? 1%. Well, I could agree to that.

It's either going to be 10 or 100, because you don't let me do hundreds and you only let me do tens. Okay. Then it's going to be the top 10 sexiest. He's still on the list. Wow. But man, you think of Carmelo Anthony, your pants exploded. You think of like... Brad Pitt?

Brad Pitt, you think of... Maddie. Yeah, there's a... There's a lot. We've had some thoroughbreds trot through here. Alexander Scars, Scars. Oh, Boing. Dwayne.

Did you know I learned in my aunt's memorial? K-U-M-A-Sutra, comma... K-U-M-A. Means... Fun. Oh, sure. It means fun, like full of life. And now that makes sense, comma, suture.

Like, fun sex. Sexual. fun. Yeah. I learned a lot. My favorite type of fun. All right. Love you.

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