Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Anthony Hopkins

Episode Date: November 10, 2025

Sir Anthony Hopkins (We Did Ok, Kid, The Silence of the Lambs, The Father) is an Academy, Emmy, and BAFTA Award-winning actor. Anthony joins the Armchair Expert to discuss feeling othered and playing the role of the dummy in school, how growing up during a war shaped him, and a chance invitation at the YMCA that changed the trajectory of his life. Anthony and Dax talk about booking his first role the same day James Dean was killed, the advice Laurence Olivier offered after seeing him perform onstage, and doing screen tests with Katherine Hepburn and Peter O’Toole. Anthony explains the mythology behind his first table read for The Silence of the Lambs, his journey to sobriety, and why “We Did Ok, Kid” is a sentiment applicable to everything that’s happened in his life.Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new content on YouTube or listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ now.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and add free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts. Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Shepard and I'm joined by Mrs. Padman. Hello. Today we have a night time. Hire, on guard, draw your sword, matey.

Sir. Sir and Tony Hopkins. Yeah, legend. Anthony Hopkins Academy Award-winning actor, The Silence of the Lambs. Hannibal, the father, meet Joe Black, Fracture. And he has a new memoir out. Triciest word in the biz. You did a great job.

Thank you. Ding, ding, ding. His book is called We Did Okay, Kid. Oh, yeah. And, I mean, again, what a surreal joy to sit down with Sir Anthony Hopkins. And mostly his memory, and we've met a lot of good memories. This one is like... Off the charts.

Needs to be studied, perhaps. Yes. Dates, people. You can see him visualizing. Like, he will give details that you're like, what? And as you pointed out, like, he remembered the names of two little girls he was auditioning against to get into an acting school as a kid that he certainly never saw again. No. I know.

Really amazing. Please enjoy Tony Hopkins. This episode of Armchair Expert is presented by Apple Pay. You know, holiday shopping can be a hassle, but Apple Pay makes it so much easier. Whether you're shopping online or in store, look for the Apple Pay button or contactless symbol at checkout. No more digging for your wallet or filling out long online checkout forms. It works at millions of places, including stores, websites, and apps.

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I won't care. No, you stay, you stay. Please stay. Sing books. What's that? Let them. Oh, we just had her on. I could sum up for you what let them is in our vernacular. It's acceptance. That's it.

It has a lot of. parallels. Yeah, don't fight. Don't fight. It's a wonderful quote by someone. Greek philosophy and talks about whatever we can do to avoid making people uncomfortable and all the little problems in daily love accept them. Yeah. He said, because

when you look in the mirror behind you as death and that sounds like. Yeah. Well, you know what else? Her thing is let them. So, yeah, they're doing something that you don't approve of that is uncomfortable for you. People, Places and things. I'm powerless over people, and things. And then let me, it's let them, then let me. And the let me part is the

four step. It's, well, what am I doing in this scenario? You in the program? Yes. Yes. Oh, he's a big proponent. That's why I'm so excited to meet you. I have a lot of friends who have heard you speak over the years and I've never gotten that opportunity. So I've always felt left out of that. And I'm very happy to me. Coming up on 50 years. Christmas, right after Christmas? Yeah, 27th 29th. Incredible. Congratulations. That's huge. 50 years. 50 years. changed my life. I knew I was in big trouble. I checked in at an intergroup in Westwood. In Westwood. Westwood Boulevard. I was a little office up the stairs. And I thought, maybe I'm making too much of a deal of this, but I knew I was in big trouble. And I was about

to turn back. And the voice in mind said, just get that. Do something. Yeah. Yeah. The voice said it's all over. Now you can start living in this open for a purpose. Wow. I love it. Powerful. Can we start with what prompted you to write the memoir? My wife, Stella, encouraged me to do it. And many people, some people over the years, I've said, why don't you write a book? So I have one of those weird memories

that remembers a lot of details. I saw, oh, I don't want to write a book. Who wants to read about an actor? And I started writing bits and pieces of notes. And through them, where I just thought, oh, this is unnecessary. And so just do it. That's okay.

And it suddenly occurred to me a few years ago that my life has been beyond my explanation. I think it was actually Ed Gallupol, who said that if we think about it, how our lives has been written by some other author. Because when I look at my life, I think, how... You couldn't have written it. Yeah.

Right? Yeah. The reason I ask why you write it is, I think the book will be a bit of a shock for people, as it was for me. Did you enjoy the book? Yes, immensely. And so opposite of the things,

fantasy I would have filled in for you of your backstory and your charmed life. And I think anytime someone with a voice people listen to acknowledge how challenging it's been, I think is very helpful. As you and I would know very well, I don't learn from people's successes. I kind of learn from people's failures. And I learn from mine and it's very helpful when I find up people I admire had a rough start or they had challenges along the way. I find that very, I find that more inspiring than you holding a fucking trophy on a stage. I can't really relate to that. But feeling other your whole life, oh, I relate to that so deeply. Yeah. And I think that would surprise people. I think people would look at you and go, well, this guy's had it as good as one

can have it. And he must always feel loved and must always feel celebrated and connected. But that wasn't the story, was it? I feel mostly disconnected most of my life. But in a way, it was all good because there's a part in the book where I'd had enough of the game I was playing, the role of being stupid, being a dummy at school and all that.

God bless my mother and father, they worked really hard to do something for me. I felt sorry when my school report arrived, I was 17. My school report arrived on Easter, 1955, and the dreaded moment they opened the school report. Beautiful summary evening. Spring. Late afternoon, we were going off to the cinema.

And my father read the porous and it said, Anthony is way below the standard of this school. My father meant, well, he didn't mean any harm, but he said, I know what's going to happen to you. It's hopeless. I mean, what's the matter with you? Do you care? I remember, it was so clear.

It was like I took a step back. And I said, one day I'll show you. I'll show both of you. My father said, oh, I said, well, hope you do. I must, I'm sure you well. Now, that moment, I think, triggered something. deep inside me, which was a power of all of you, some consequence, okay, well, fasten your seatbelt.

What I was going to show them, I had no idea. Right. But within three months, I got a scholarship as an actor. Wow. Never acted before in my life. Except that very evening, we were walking up to see the film and we passed the YMCA and then at the Easter player. Something shifted just slightly.

Everything looked brighter. I want to put a fine point on it. You were called a dunce. You were made fun of endlessly. Your dad was disappointed quite often. You had been in many different schools. All the schools thought you were terrible. They thought you were dumb.

And by the way, I can relate. And I had a big chip on my shoulder about it. But you were a real outsider. That's right. Yeah. You didn't like sports. Couldn't stand it. I mean, playing rugby, chasing a ball around the field.

I'll cricket. I mean, what is he doing here? Yeah, yeah, yeah. One thing I've learned out of this, I was never a victim. In fact, all my debits inside me were the greatest power I could have because it made me angry and all that. I went through years of that. But I look back now, I think now I've no room for all that anger.

Yeah, but you were a bit of a dichotomy, right? Because you were doing pretty terrible in school, underwhelming. Yet, your father had gotten you this encyclopedia set. and you had read this thing from beginning to end so that you had these moments where people would ask you about something and then you could just pontificate, right? You had that kind of memory where you could recall and kind of blow their mind.

But for whatever reason, you felt more comfortable playing dumb. Well, I remember the afternoon I'd been to the dentist. I was seven, just off the war. And there was a bit of a painful operation. I had a needle and all that. I resented being in that dentist's chair. Go back. There was a box outside the house.

My father came home, he came home, took the box upstairs, unpacked it. And there were ten volumes of this encyclopedia. And I was so fascinated. They're full of pictures and all that. It was me, children's encyclopedia, simplified versions of biographies like Beethoven and all kinds of subjects, geography, history, potted history for kids to pick up. But I learned from that, and I learned odd facts. It's like I knew how tall the Empire State was no useless information.

Do you remember it's hard to know, right? You're reflecting back and you know what you know today, but then you try to imagine what you knew then. Do you think it was a conscious decision as like some kind of protection? I'm just going to play dumb and they're going to leave me alone. And I can isolate and be by myself, which was what I want. Yeah. Was it conscious?

Oh, yes. It was. It was protective because I had a very bright cousin, Bobby. He's dead now. But Bob was one of the brilliant kids in school. Brilliant. And I was in school with kids who were way ahead of me. I just thought I could dodo.

And I was told I was a dodo. I was told I was hopeless, you know. Yeah, they said pretty cruel things to you. I mean, I recognize this in 1930, six and seven and eight. But still, by today's standards, I'm reading some of the things that were told to you. And it's pretty hurtful. Yeah, but life is tough. Tougher then, yeah?

Oh, it's tougher for everyone. I mean, you just come down the street there, homeless people. And you see kids struggling, you know, kids are bullies, kids are vicious. And that's a form of defense because life is rough for everyone. Yeah. I've gone past that stage of being resentful or angry about it. But I look around and life was tough and is tough today, this very moment. What do you think growing up, you were in Wales for seven years of World War II before it ended?

Yeah. How did that affect you and the people around you? I was fascinated by it. You are. Because I remember the bombings and, you know, we were going down into the garden shelter. Yeah. And I think the local dock was bombed because there's a harbour town. Swansea was just down the road.

That was bombed flat. And I remember the sort of strange excitement. It was exciting. The sirens would go off and you'd hear them overhead. And my thoughts, oh, it's Liverpool tonight. Oh, wow. And they'd bomb Liverpool. And you look at all the hardship of warfare, terrible losses, appalling losses.

of life. And then towards the end of the war in 94, we had two American soldiers who came to visitors and there was station, Captain Dern, Lieutenant Cooney. And I remember they brought back cookies and chewing gum and all that. The Americans, they were all over South Wales waiting for the big day. They didn't know what it was, but it was D-Day. Then they came to the house to say goodbye. We got in the Jeep, we stood on the corner of the gate, and we waved. And At the top of the street, they turned. And they both killed in the Ardennes. You saw it? Yeah.

It was the Battle of the Bulge. The General von Roonstead. My grandfather was in the Battle of the Bulge. Yeah, thousands of Americans killed. Appalling lost, it was a surprise attack. Well, without being melodramatic, I'm sure you're resistant to that. But I would have been excited as a little boy. Bombs are exciting.

Airplanes are exciting. But do you think growing up where literally the world was at war, shaped your worldview in that, oh, this is a dangerous place and who knows what's going to happen. Do you think you had a little insecurity of just about the world you were in? I think it came to a point where, as I become an adult, I remember the Cuba crisis. Everyone sort of remembers that. That was the deadly time. He thought, well, this could be it.

Khrushchev and Kennedy facing each other. And I remember I was at the Royal Academy, and I had a perspective about that, well, it's happened before. And I visited Wales about a week later, I think. I started closer in this year. He said, but in 1939, he said, we declared war the biggest military machine in Europe. And he said, in a thousand years, right. The odds were much worse then. And he said, within six years, the guy had blown his brains out in the bunker in Berlin.

So much for history. Go through crises and crises. But finally, we come through it, or we don't. But there's nothing we can do, but it's extraordinary. How the human animal is so vile. I mean, to build bombs, to bomb each other, why do we do it? Who knows? It's crazy.

We can't stop. I have a strange theory. That's probably a useless theory. But maybe some hundred thousand years ago, the Homo sapiens, suddenly may have realized that we're pretty savage, therefore we must destroy ourselves for the good of the planet. But maybe at some deep level. You played Hitler in bunker, and it was a confusing performance for people. Some of the reviews I read where people were like, he's so good that unfortunately you do see the logic a bit in him.

Right. Right. And two questions about that. One is, well, first of all, have you read the book Blitzed by chance? No. Okay. It's great. I read it four years ago. And it details Hitler's drug use, which is incredibly well documented because his doctor that was with him at all times.

Got him. Got it. was writing down meticulous notes of everything he gave him. And towards the last few years, he was on speedballs all day long. He was on methamphetamine and oxycodone direct intervenious. You map his addiction. The walls of the bunker get thicker. It's addiction.

One of the American producers done, said, Tony said, great, we saw the day. It's so fantastic. Could you make him less likable? Yeah. Can you make him less human? And I said, he was human. Which is hard. Yeah.

I said, he was human. So go figure. And that's actually scarier. It's scarier that they're human. And they're not just evil. Cartoon archetytes. It's buried in deep in all of us. Yeah, exactly.

And that scares us because what are we capable of? For goodness knows all reason. So you had a very challenging start. But then you also had these little glimpses of pretty good fortune, right? And you mentioned one of them, which is you're at the YMCA, you wander to this room, you find out they're putting on this play, the Christmas angels. Easter. Easter. The director says, just basically, would you like to do a line in this? My father said to a neighbor, a friend of his, God's sake, to get him out of these, always on

his own. Get some friends of playing the piano all day. Yeah. And I went to the YMCA, I remember it all clearly. And I went into this room and the kids playing table tennis. And I thought, God, I don't want to be part of any of this. And so I wanted down the stairs and up the hall and said some voices through double doors. There's a stage. And I crept in, and this man turned to him. He said, what do you want? I said, can I watch?

He said, yes, be quiet. He was very authoritative. He said, um, what's your name? I said, Anthony Hopkins. You're Dick Hopkins is by the baker. I said, yeah. Oh, well, said, uh, would you like to have a part in this? And they gave me a part of a saint.

I had one line, blessed of the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. It's a good line. I thought, well, I like the feeling of being on stage, but I didn't take it seriously. But being hopeless at school, I thought, well, maybe there's a chance because my parents. They came every show, though. This is what's very sweet about them. Three nights. And my father's as well, you never know, maybe Hollywood next.

Oh, wow. And he was 17, he was making a joke. But you did good. That was maybe the first, I mean, you were good at playing piano and stuff, but that was the first time maybe you had some real acceptance of having put yourself. out there and it went as good as it could go. It's very encouraging, you know. Looking back and have a laugh, but all. Yeah.

And then the other crazy thing that happens to you is you know a girl who's dating Richard Burton. Oh, Bernice Evans, yes. This is so random, right? I mean, not random in that he's also Welsh, but how do you meet Richard Burton? Bernice was about 18, much older than me, but she'd been to the Slade Art School. And she lived up the bottom end of the house just over the Garden War with her parents. And my mother took a liking. So she's a nice young girl.

And I was on the floor of sketching. I said, I can give him some lessons. And she did a sketch of me, which is in the book. And so one night, she's like, I can only give you half an hour. And I'd been painting a pirate on poster paint. She said, my boyfriend's taking me to the cinema. To see an odd man out with James Mason, I sat there. And I heard the doorbell ring, and she'd come up.

And he came up the stairs, and he came to the room. She said, this is Richard. He's an actor. He's Richard Burton. Wow. He said, well, I like the boots on the button. Little as I know that many years later, I'd meet him here in the same dressing room in New York

that I'd occupied in Equus. And he'd taken over from Anthony Perkins took over from me when I left in 1975, and then Burton took over from Tony Perkins. So I was in New York, early 76, doing publicity for a film. So I asked the stage director, I said, can I come and see me? Yeah.

So went up the stairs, and in the same dressing with Richard Burton. And he shook hands, and he said, well, he said, why haven't we worked together? He said, we must do it one day. And thank you very much and walked down the stairs. Coming in to see his performance that night through the stage door, because the crowds outside, was Elizabeth Taylor. Oh, my goodness. He was looking a bit wobbly. She did that well.

She was a wonderful actress. Yeah, yeah. I just recently watched for the first time who's afraid of Virginia Woolf. I cannot believe how funny she is in it. Both of them. Oh, they're incredible. And then I read the book about the director, how he managed those two at that time. Mike Nichols.

Yes, Mike Nichols. I asked him, he said, I didn't direct it at all. He said they were George and Martha. Wow. Yeah, I think it was Mike's first job. First film, right? Yeah, he did the graduate after that. Yeah.

And he said they were magnificent. Yeah. Because they were George Martha. It's incredible. My favorite line is at the end, when they all get up and leave and They've had their fight, and this one moment digs deep into me when Sandy Dennis and George Siegel have gone. And she's devastated is Sunday tomorrow all day. Oh, God.

The depression. Yeah. The horrifying emptiness of their lives who's afraid of Virginia. Yeah. So based, though, on this little experience you had at the YMCA, it kind of opens up potentially a new path. And you said also meeting Richard when he left, you were like, okay. I want to be him. Yeah.

How about the Royal Welsh College of Music and Drama? How do you then get into there? They'd cut out an advert in the book of Welsh paper of scholarship auditions for Cardiff's College of Music and Drama. My mother sent out an application for me. So I'd been at the Wiamtay I'm playing now, blessed of the meek for they should inherit there. So I learned a bit of Shakespeare, the Othello speech.

And I went up to Cardiff and into the audition. It was in the castle. that's where the college was. And I went to me, I met this man called Raymond Edwards. He said, what are you going to do? I said, Shakespeare. I said, all right, go ahead. And I did that scene.

And I was handing it up, you know, he said, very good. Well, he says, I'll let you know. You got your address. So two weeks later, got an information in the mail that I was on the short list of three people. Two girls and a boy, yeah? And I went up to Cardiff, my father, to the city hall, to final interview. and I went in this big grand room with a table with some headcases

Dr. Hines, who was the principal. Raymond Edwards was the head of the drama and they asked me some question. One question they asked me, which I thought, well, that's it. She said, you didn't have a very good school report? No. Oh, well, all right.

I thought, well, that's it, curtains. But now, there's two young girls out there and Holmes and Sandra Sheffield. And Raymond came out. He said, well, the scholarship goes to the mail. I thought, it's in the post, in the mail. Here's his weird. Yeah, he's locked into this being, he's a dunce.

Yeah, you can't see outside. It's in the mail. My father's no, the mail. You're the male. Oh, good God. He said, yes, it's in the mail. You've got this scholarship. Oh, I have.

That's right. Yes. Yes, son. You are going to this school now. And you were in the paper for it. So it was a real turnaround. Yeah. Yeah, it started the night and west of mail.

My parents have been to the pub. They came back and my father said, look at this, you're famous. And in the western minute, said, Anthony Hopkins, son of Baker, received this Prince Little's scholarship. Remember, I said, it's not one of us. You look at this year, sad, isn't it? James Dean was killed. No. Same day.

On the Friday night, 70 years ago. Wow. What kind of joy did you allow yourself to experience in that? Did it feel good to have your dad get to read about you in the paper after how pessimistic he was? There was some hope for me, you know? Yeah, yeah. But then I went on the... Army. And after two years, what you called the draft of here, called National Service,

did two years, and it came out in 1960. You were Gunner Hopkins, the Royal Artillery. What was that experience like? Did it feel like school again, or did you feel more capable there? Well, I became a clerk. God knows how. Okay. I was useless as that, too. Okay. I mean, you really hardly made it. I mean, I didn't know, I just fell on my feet. It was like a cat with nine lives. Yeah. And yet I survived, I think, because I isolated in a way, because they don't let them get you. It's called Dilkharundum, don't let the bastards get you down.

Yeah, yeah. And that's how I played my whole life. Did you feel lonely or did it not bother you to be so isolated? No, I didn't feel lonely. I just felt uniquely myself, I didn't need anyone. I never wanted to be part of anything. No, I'm going to fast forward 55 years. In 2014, you were diagnosed with Asperger's?

Tell her my wife has convinced I have us, but I don't know of what I believe. Because there are many labels now, ADDH, I don't know how they're talking about. I was only wondering. Just being human, you know. Yes, you heard that, though, and went back and we're like, oh, that's why I didn't mind being alone. I don't even know what it is. I just feel like everyone else confused, as we all are. We're all sitting over thinking, we've got answers, got labels for everything, dyslexia or whatever.

I don't know. Just human. But I'm comforted by the fact that you weren't feeling lonely and isolated. You were fine. Yeah, exactly. I never felt like a victim. And I've got that attitude today. Get on with it.

Stop complaining. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like it. Stay tuned for more armchair expert. If you dare. This message is brought to you by Apple Pay. Money, I can't believe it's almost the holidays. You know what that means, right?

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is big leagues. If you're going to go to school and you're on that side of the world, that's the spot. Yeah? Yeah, I did an audition. And I walked on stage and mother gravely voice, said, what are you going to do? I said, Yago from Mathello. So I did the scene and I had an uncanny understanding of what Yago was. And I finished the scene and the last line was,

I shall make a net that shall enmesh them all. So I said, thank you. And I was about to walk up stage. This woman's voice said, hold on, where are you going? I said, I finished now. Well, can me talk a moment? I'd rather not. Yeah. And then now to this gravely voice, Kim, said, hello, my name's John Fernland. Lamberman. Very good, very, very good, yes. Never seen it play that way, but it's wonderful. I so, thank you. And two weeks later, got a message I was in. Join September 1961. When does Lawrence Olivier first see you act? Is it while you're a student there? No, no. That was the national theater. That was a different story. After you graduated from there. Okay.

I got an invitation to go to the National Theatre to audition. And Olivia was running the National Theatre. It was then at the Old Vic Theatre. This was 1965. I went in and there was a man. He looked like a bank president. There's Lawrence Olivia. So I did the audition.

He said, good. He said, well, well done. About a week later, got a call to join the National Theatre. In his production of Othello, I had to run on and say the Ottomites, Reverend and gracious, due course. steering towards the Isle of Roads. So I went and then spoke Yago's lines instead.

Oh, oops. And suddenly changed. And I thought, that's it, I'm fine. And I knocked at this door to apologize. And somebody said, Sir Lawrence is very annoyed. I mean, he was taking his makeup off. I said, I'm sorry about that.

Oh, you went on and spoke Leagga. He said, I thought we were going to stir up the whole bloody play all over again. He said, by the way, that speech, the messenger speech, let me do it. You must really hit it on. I said, oh, yeah. Like that? Yes.

to counteract the sleeping ghost that was in me that I was incompetent and I was going to be a victim. I thought no one will ever touch me if I learn the entire role before we can start and learn it and it paid because nobody could touch me. I mean, you could have some sadistic director and if they did, I would warn them. I'd get up and walk out because I wouldn't put up with it. Being bullied.

I mean, I was a bit paranoid, just a little nuts and I would walk away. He said, where are you going? To hell with you. Anyway, so that's what happened. Then he gave me a part in his production of the Three Sisters by Chekhov. Well, you understudied him. I understood him in Dance of Death. And he said,

a new young actor in the company of Exceptional Promise named Anthony Hopkins was understudying me and walked away with the part of Eager, like a cat with a mouse between its teeth. That's pretty great. I was told that night that I was going on stage and off him. My God, couldn't believe it. But for goodness, no, probably fear. I just got through it and probably overacted.

But anyway, the audience came in big avation. And I got a call from him next morning. He'd snuck out of hospital. He'd put it overcoat on something. And he said, I saw you last night. You did? Yeah, he said, you were very good. Well done.

He was very soft-spoken. He said, did you have any problems, any fears? I said, no, but I went through two shirts, you have a sweat. That's called tension. How long does it take to get rid of that? About 20 years. Oh, wow.

Do you agree now? He said another thing to you, maybe it's apocryphal, but he also said to you, nerves is vanity. You're worried about what the audience will think. Yeah. I think that's incredible advice to hear. He doesn't have time to be nervous. Get on and do it. And he said, you know, you may make a mistake.

Who cares? It's not important. It is important, but it's not important. Yeah. Get on, then do it. And if it fails, it fails, and so on. Who cares? Yeah, that takes a while to learn.

don't you think? Well, vanity, ego. You know, when you're young, you think everyone's talking about you. Nobody cares. Right, right. No, no, they don't. When you look back, have there been some performances where you're like, I shit the bet on that one?

That was not good. Oh, yeah, I've done films and things like that. But you thought you personally didn't rise to that challenge? Oh, yeah. It may sound weird, blasphemous, but it's only acting. I think you have to get there for your survival or you can't do it for a long time. Stupid example. but I got asked to come honor my rheumatologist, right?

And in the audiences, I don't know, there's a few hundred people, and they're much older than me. And I make a couple jokes, and they do not like them. They don't either get them or they just didn't like them. And I was riding home on my motorcycle. I was like, yeah, you didn't do well. You'll live. And you'll go to somewhere else, and you might be fine the next time.

But I'd have learned to just be able to let that go. Finally, nobody gives a time anyway. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's important to hear you say that. as the best that's ever done it, because so many people do sit with, oh, I need to do better, I need to do better, or I'm not good enough. So to hear you say it, I think, is helpful. I do at the same time, as a dichotomy, I do try to be cautious about what I say because people have different values. And for some people, things are very important. Some people find their job

is acting important. I don't want to bring on their parade. Sure. So what I say is the degree of caution, I'm dispassionate about it, but I don't want to offend anyone because there's, a lot of pain in the world, but what I say is finally maybe approaching 88, I have no idea how much long I've got, but I just think I'll, don't take it all so seriously. And when I was working 60 years ago almost with Peter O'Toole and Catherine Hepburn, I was taking the back when we were knocking my door, the theatre, and there was Peter O'Toole, so I wanted to do an audition a film test. So anybody ended up in Ireland doing interior scenes with Catherine Hepburn and O'Toole. I was thinking, I thought, my dreaming.

Yeah. She was great to work with her. She knew everyone on the crew. She was that old style Hollywood actress. My God, how may lucky you're getting a suntan in the middle of January. Beets working for a living. Yeah. And she's, yeah, I always remember this moment.

Beets working. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is the line in winter? She said the exact same thing that Olivia said, it's very important and at the same time it's not important at all. You were nominated for a BAFTA for that, which is your first movie. Did it shock you or did you feel like, okay, this makes sense? It surprised me.

It's a much better actors than me around, much more accomplished. But for some reason, I think it was the burliness. So I was strong. I was tough and arrogant and all that stuff, I guess. But I was sure of myself inside. A very big movie that came next was Young Winston. And it's the first of five times you and Richard Attenborough collaborated. I'm just curious, what do you think was your guys' unique connection

that allowed you guys to keep coming back together? I think he saw something in me that was rebellious and I was slightly mad. I've always been that, you know, something that's not to be trusted in the way. Something that's unpredictable. Yeah. And maybe that's in our nature. Maybe it's in my nature. I have no idea.

I'm not a psychotherapist or anything. But I think there's something unpredictable in my very nature, which comes from the past. Not that I'm crazy in any sense. I don't believe that. But maybe that's a sense. And I remember that and I remember something dangerous about you. I remember Jonathan Demi when my agent phoned for me one afternoon in 1988. I was in a play in West End.

He said, I'm sending a script over called Silence of the Lambs. I said, it was a kid's story? He said, no, no. Anything but. Played the part of a lecture. He says, it's not a very big part, but he's with Johnny Foster. So I said, oh, she just won an Oscar, and he said, yeah. But he read it, I said, yeah.

So I started reading the script, and I phoned him. I said, this is the best part. He said, it's a very small part. I said, I know how to play it. He phoned back. He said, Jonathan Demi is coming to see you tomorrow on Saturday from New York. It's an offer. I said, okay, so Jonathan arrived on the Saturday, came backstage, and we went off

around to a local restaurant. I was curious. Why me? He said, don't you want to play the ice? Yes, but why do you choose me? He said, I saw you in The Elephant Man. playing Dr. Treves. I thought, what's that I got to do with the lecture?

He said, well, there's something in you that I think you can do it. I said, well, okay, is you have any idea? I said, I know exactly what I'm going to do. Like what? I said, like how the computer in 2001. A few months later, I was in Pittsburgh, we'll be filming the cell scene. Jonathan was very nice. I met Jody, and she was very nice.

As I quote him, that Jody never spoke to him. That's not true. We were quite friendly. There's nothing spooky about it. that's publicity crap, you know. But we did the first reading, and I knew how to play it. It was the first reading around the table in New York, of all places. So we finished the script, and Kenny out of one of the producers,

holy Moses, Tony, what is that? I said, no. And Jody said, you're scary. But the scene when she comes down the corridor to meet Lecter, he was very flexible, he's a director. He said, how do you want Jody to see you? He said, we'll have a camera, and it'll be her point of view. Would you be sitting down or lying down or asleep or reading books?

And he said, no, I'd like to stand. Stend in the middle of the cell. I see, I can smell her coming down the corridor. He said, yo, here's. We got the right guy for this role. So they did the scene, and the camera, the crew were up there. As the camera came, I heard John and think, oh, he moly, says. Yeah.

And good morning, you're not real FBI, how are you? All the way to the FBI. Ah! Is it the most fun you've ever had playing a character? Oh, it's wonderful. You know what you look like to me with your good bag in your cheap shoes? You look like a robe. Well, it's a crab-dustling roob with a little taste.

He knows how to need her and all her vulnerability. But it's the right mix of charming, too. Terrifying devil. I met a couple of people like that who are vicious and cruel, subtle. Horrible. Interesting as well. All the way to the FBI. When you're in character like that, when you come out of it,

are you like, wow, I really went somewhere, you're not. You learn your lion's shop, hit the market. Open the catering is good. Yeah. You're honest about being sober or no? You don't like talking about being sober? It can be pretty boring. I was drunk.

I drank a lot. What was it like? It's fun, you know. Booze works very quickly, and it changes your relationship to space around you. It relaxes everything, and it's a false courage. And drinking is a very common thing. It's very nice thing, I suppose. But I remember being insecure and all that stuff.

Go and have a couple of jars and a couple of drinks and things suddenly look relaxed and you think, oh, this is good. And it is. And you're going to have some fun. But they're a lone drink or a public drinker. You've got to have some fun. You know, all actors would drink because you were rebels. Yeah.

But finally, I was just lucky to have enough brain cells left to say, you're going to die. Yeah. Because I was doing stupid things like driving my car and doing dumb things. And we do dumb stuff when we're drunk. It's part of the fun. I get into fights with people. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

A change of personalities to kind of induce schizophrenia. But what I'm curious about is once you got sober and you started, I'm assuming this happened to me, is I'm kind of learning why I am the way I am to some degree, right? If I'm working these steps and I do the fourth step and all of a sudden I go, oh, wow, this is illuminating. My whole life is being controlled by like three fears. That's interesting. I now know what I have to work on as a person

if I want to be in harmony. Did that exploration start impacting your work in an interesting way? What I'm told by an old guy who's been around for many years, his name was Jack Bailey, and he's a comedian and well-known personality. He took an interest in me,

and he was wonderful sense of you, but you're smoking a cigarette. He said, how are you doing, kids? And I said, I'm all right. Yeah, I'm fine. You happy? I said, yeah, is that okay? Yeah, you dummy.

So he came here for it, be happy. Yeah. And he said, how long you got now, a few months? Good for you. Don't take the first drink. That's all you have to remember. It's another thing. Don't listen to the gurus.

He said, you know, it's not a mathematical formula of this. Live your life. Sure, you can do the steps, but live your life, enjoy it. Because there were some people rigid, you know. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he said to avoid them because they're nuts. He said, they may have to do it that way, but you don't have to fall into their trap. Yeah.

Because he knew one of the guys who was trying to take control of me. He said, no, just walk away. Enjoy a life. He said, this is four. I mean, 50 years is so long. It's changed so much. Like, my father went to treatment in 87, and it was still shameful. Now, I have no shame saying I'm an addict.

Most people I interview that are addicts have no problem saying it. It's really changed in the last 50 years, right? Yeah. Was it hard participating while being famous? No, don't take that into consideration at all. I mean, you know, I go into meetings and people recognize me. I'm fine, with that. That doesn't bother me. I'm just a drunk like all the rest of the things.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And accessible and all that and it will be helpful. But I will never preach, lay down the law, or talk it all the time, because it becomes boring for people. So I'm very easy going about it. Have you had any scary situations in the last 50 years? Have you been close at any point in those 50 years of going like, I was so young, what the fuck? Oh, no, no.

The craving left immediately. I'm not that sociable, but we had a bunch of people over and I was in England recently for dinner or lunch. We've got some wine. As long as people don't drive, get a car to pick them up, if they want to drink, then fine. Yeah, yeah. But no, no, if we'll have another drink, I'll even overpour their glasses. I'd prefer people drink around me than not to appease me. You had kind of a moment that, as you said, I don't belong anywhere, I'm a loner.

But in the dresser, when Ian McKellen said it was wonderful, you said, we got on so well, and I suddenly felt at home as though the lack of belonging was all in my imagination and all in my vanity. I think this is a very profound moment. When is the dresser? 2015, we had a ball. We had a wonderful time. That's what he's got. He's got charisma, muscle.

He's powerful. He's daring. It's courageous. I made a lot of laughs. Yeah. It could make you laugh. But when you have this realization, and I know you're not one to feel bad for yourself,

but when you realize I'm not alone, do you go, oh, why did I spend so much time? Yeah, that's all paranoiousness. I don't know. Do you have any kind of sadness or regret that it took you that long to realize? You can't regret things like that. I think I felt insecure because I was so lucky, really.

I just lucky all the way through my life. And I think I shouldn't have been so far. lucky because people have a tough time is struggling to. And I've just been given this good fortune. You feel guilty about it? Well, no, not anymore. But I do look back and with curiosity, I think how extraordinary that this happened to me and all these opportunities came to me. So I never complain. You know, I've talked about the acting business and all that. I've known actors who've struggled for years and never quite made it. And I just don't know what it's about. Like why you?

Yeah, why things happened to me the way they did. So I've got no ounce of complaint to me or regret. But working with Ian was great. Yeah, I have one curiosity about your acting, and it's about you being a composer. So you were also a very active musician your whole life, and you even paused acting for a while to tour with some of your compositions. For some odd reason, it comes naturally to me,

improvise on the piano, and I improvise. And then I got a friend, Stephen Barton, who has a studio at the, where the Beatles. Abbey Road. Abbey Road. Yeah. Go to the studio then. He's got sound equipment.

And all the samples of every instrument there is. Pure samples, there's real cellos, real cell. So I pick and choose. Let me start with an oboe or something like that. Yeah, cello. Yeah. The sound that's produced is so accurate. Even on the cell, you can hear the grind of a string.

They're so perfect. They're all done by German engineers, I believe. Real samples. So you listen to a real cello, but electronically. manipulated. I don't know how the hell it works. Yeah. But I'd use that because it's useful. Then it flows. I mean, I was listening to somebody, I thought, how the hell did I write that? I don't know. Right.

I don't know. I mean, this one that's called fanfare, then it goes into March. Now, remember the day, working it out, sitting there, keyboard, I said, want to do this as a fanfare. Bapam. Okay, everything. Tom bones, trumpets, b'pah, bum. I said, I want to put a brass in there, another horn. And then suddenly turned into a march. He's got the scores really and Stella is behind my life. Extraordinary. She said, let's talk to a conductor and we got a conductor of the London Philharmonic. And he came to the studio just to say hello. Lovely man. Can I hear something? I see her. You just did that? I see her. Well, we're in the middle of it now. Now I went to rehearsals at the London Philharmonic. I couldn't believe him

sitting there. This is impossible. Yeah. Yeah. Are you? you afraid to even try to figure out how you can do it? Are you superstitious? No, I just know that there's a way of doing it. Just let the music come to you. Which are you more proud of? The acting work or the music stuff? Both. Not one more than the other. No. But again, don't take myself too seriously. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just lucky. Yeah. And I paint and I draw and and all that. You're just artistic. Yeah. Stella told me, she said, she found some old scripts before we got married to my old scripts I'd kept it in the cupboard. And I doodle, you know, drawings.

And she wore a painter. I saw it in her campaign. She, of course you can't do it. I said, no, you can do anything. Go on, just do it. So I got some canvases. This is always the start out little boy from Port Horto, but get some can't be doing with oil paints because it takes too long to dry. I said, I want to paint fast. So we've got acrylics.

And suddenly I produced these paintings and I had a show of them and told them. I'm not supposed to say this, but I'm fast. I work fast. I like to work fast because it means that you cut down your choices. Too many choices you get fat and lazy. Just do it fast. If you make a mistake, okay, go over it. Yeah.

Who cares? Brush it out. Paint over it. Write music over it, whatever. Anyone who's listening who has a young son who is seemingly directionless in getting kicked out, I hope this is so hopeful for them that you just don't know what the future. you don't know. Believe in yourself totally. Even though you may think it's a lie, believe in yourself, never give in to what other people say you are. Never give them the chance

to put you down. Because you do that yourself anyway, put yourself down. But don't let other people put you down. You get out there and you do it. And you may fail, you may run into a wall, so on. You get up and you do it, especially when you're young. You've got the guts and the strength to do it. In the stupidity. Yeah, and the stupid, be stupid. Yeah, yeah. Just have a good at it. Yeah.

Be bold and mighty forces will come to your aid. Yeah. Well, Mr. Hopkins, we're so flattered that you were willing to come on the show. Yeah, we've both obviously just loved watching so many wonderful performances. Your book is wonderful and it's very, like I said, unexpected, which I think is delightful. Well, I'm really grateful for that you liked it. Yeah, and we're going to play some of it for our listening audience, too. They're going to get a little clip of it too.

Oh, good. We'll have audio. Yeah, I had to go old-fashioned and be with my eyeballs. But thank you. Yes, it's delightful to meet you. And thanks for making the big trip out here. And I hope everyone checks out the book. It is called appropriately.

We did okay, kid. That photograph in the back of the book, that photograph of my father, I was three and a half in Aberraven on the beach because during the war he didn't go into the army. He was lucky, but he had to do some national service. She was in the Observer Corps, which is that's the RF, which was plotting aircraft, German, American, British,

reporting movements of aircraft, warning the center in Cardiff. It was a network of observation. Anyway, I was there. Lost little kid like we all are, feeling hopeless or lost, you know. And I look at that, I think. We did okay, kid. Yeah, that's beautiful. But whatever it is, you know.

It worked out just fine. Yeah. Thank you so much. I hope everyone checks out the book and it's been a delight for me. Thank you both. Now, before we go to the fact check, we're going to play an excerpt from We Did Okay Kid. I'm an alcoholic and I need help. I told my agent, he got me the time off I needed to focus on getting treatment.

The tradition I belong to suggests that it's much better to change lives one person at a time by helping them one-on-one rather than by crowing to the world about having found a cure for one's affliction. this is known in the rooms as attraction rather than promotion and so I will say only that if you are starting to wake up to the ways in which alcohol is ruining your life as I did to the ways it was ruining mine there are people out there who will take you out for coffee you can find them in every city and town at every hour of the day

I still go to meetings now myself almost 50 years after getting sober the day after my revelation I went out for lunch with my friend Bob Palmer who brought along his friend George they were going to take me to my first 12-step meeting I was in a state of shock because the urge to drink had gone I saw a waiter carrying a tray with a glass of red wine across the room how strange that I used to drink that I thought how are you feeling Bob asked inadequate he said

you are that floored me he explained that i had so little power i was unable to predict what would happen in the next three minutes therein lay terror but also freedom if we accepted it at the first a.A meeting i attended i was moved by the speaker's story he's just like me i thought he was a truck driver not an actor but we were the same I had something in common with everyone in that room. We were drunks, and we didn't want to drink anymore. I thought, they're all misfits like me, like all of us. We feel we never belong. We feel self-hatred.

All of us are the same. I'm not alone. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. But he makes mistakes all the time. Thank God Monica's here. She's got to let them have the facts. Do I have lipstick all over my face? No, you don't at all.

Okay. Because you touch it up for him eating Dad's Oatmeal. I did. Do you want to tell people about Dad's Oatmeal? Because this could be the first unbiased review. Yes. Okay. So you eat the same breakfast every day.

Yeah, 365. And I got to try it today. Uh-huh. Before you give the review. What was your guess at what it was, it tasted like? Like, blant. Yeah. What's this, mom?

Oh, I made you something. Let me try it. Oh. Like, that would be the commercial. Yeah, that's the commercial. Why don't you have lucky charms? It's like a lucky charms. It's a hundred percent of cereal commercial.

Yeah. So I just said it would be kind of bland because it's healthy. Yeah. Right. Can I do the commercial again? Okay. You'd be the mom. Give it to me.

Here, honey. Enjoy your breakfast. Okay, I'll try it. Tastes good for me. Do you think that would be a good commercial? I want lucky charge. With your hand falling out like that. That's a really sad boy.

Tastes good for me. I think you booked it. That was good. They are going to ask, can you change out your tooth? Shave my beard. to. Yeah, exactly. Can we age you down a little bit? Well, of course, I wouldn't have my tooth in because when I eat, I have to take my tooth out. Or it's like lucky charms causes your teeth to fall out. Right. That's allegedly. Mom would say, she'd say, well, hon, what

happened the last time he ate lucky charms? Your tooth fell out. Anyway, so I thought it was going to be blah. Yeah. And I tried it. And it is really good. It's really good. I'm glad that you tried it. And it doesn't even look that appealing. Other than I dressed it up with fresh blueberries, that part probably made it look a little exciting. A little bit.

But it's, yeah, it's a mush. It's a big bowl of mush. And it's a big, big bowl. And as I was telling you, this is my big reward. Yeah, you said it's time for my reward. And I was like, ooh, what's your reward? And then it was the same thing you do every day. How many days do you think you've had it?

Like, how many months have you been eating this concoction? Over two years. This exact one? No. The flesh. And that works. The fresh blueberries. The fleshy fresh blueberries.

I got into about probably nine months ago. And now that's like my real obsession. I put so, I put, I buy so many blueberries. It's crazy. Because I'll eat half of the tray per bowl of porridge. Oh my gosh. They have great antioxidants. Oh, yeah.

This is, I'm going to. Are you like if you, you could only have one meal that be perfectly healthy? Yeah. I think this is it. I'm going to poke a hole. Okay, but can I hit you with the macros first? Yeah. Okay, so it has this bowl of oatmeal has upwards of 60 grams of protein.

Yeah, it's a lot. It's a big boy's serving of protein. Big bowl. Baby like big bowl. That's what it says. It has a very good amount of fiber, which is a loose. Fibre is hard to get. Fibers hard.

So, yes, I like that. And then probably more antioxidants than any other friggin' meal you could put together with that amount of blueberries, half a rack. Okay. Okay. Time to poke a hole. And, wait, what was I? Fiber. Oh, also, people have predicted that fiber is the new protein.

Oh. As far as, like, everyone's into fiber. And you got to have it. and you got to get the amount you need to get. So that's ahead. Okay, right. And by the way, guys, Lane Norton has been saying this for years. Protein and fiber.

You look at all these different studies. Huge. The big thing they all have in common for longevity is like you got to have a lot of fiber and you got to have a lot of protein. Yeah. And you got to have a lot of chocolate chips. You got to have a lot of wine. A lot of martini. But you gave it a passing grade.

Pat, I loved it. Okay, you give it at eight? I was shocked because you, your concoction is oats, Bob's red milk. Swear by it. And Justin's honey almond butter. Yeah, uh-huh. And I don't remember the brand strawberry protein. Oh, Lane Norton's strawberry protein.

It's because it's isolate, which I need. If for people who are lactose intolerant or get upset stomach from way, if you get isolate or isolate or isolate. or isolate. It's better. There's none of the, what I, I assume there's no lactose in it, which is what I think gives you the upset stomach. Okay. Well, so.

See, I said I think a lot and I think. So I don't want anyone to quote me. I think and I think. And normally I'm pretty turned off. I can be turned off by protein powders because it does give the bad. To me, there's a taste that lingers that I really am not a fan. I like it when I'm eating it. but then there's an aftertaste.

Okay. And can you tell me the brands you've tried? Um, I can't remember. Okay. Because there's a huge difference in the different brands. I always say that. I've had tons of protein bar. I'm like, ugh, it's chalk.

That's disgusting. Yeah. But I have two I'm in love with. Well, this strawberry one that goes in your, your breakfast is really good. Again, it's all counterintuitive. Why would strawberry protein powder work in blueberry oatmeal? Fruits. I guess.

Fruit medley. I guess. It just doesn't seem like that would be good, but somehow that comes together, especially with the almond butter. Yeah, it's really nice. That's the other big secret sauce in there. Yeah. Okay, now my hole that I'm poking.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think in order for it to be the healthiest meal on planet Earth, I would like a green vegetable in there. You don't think the blueberries handles that? No, it's good. I'm glad it's there. Monty, how are we adding any green vegetables? That's my problem.

I don't think we can call it that because I don't think you can add any green vegetables to that. You could put mint. Nope, that doesn't count. Well, I mean, that's a good, that's the least terrible option. Mint is an herb, Rob. It's green. It's a green herb.

And I'm looking for a green vegetable. I'm looking for spinach. I know. But it can't go. It doesn't. That'll have to be lunch. Okay. Yeah.

You got work in a spinach in your lunch. That's fine. Maybe, okay. And you, and you'd really, ideally, you'd want a little omega's in there. So you want some fish. I think you should smash up some fish in there. Well, I do my fish oil. What's our sponsor?

Because that is actually what I use. Yeah, Nordic natural. Nordic natural. Yeah. Every night before bed, it's three Nordic naturals. Yeah. But I'm just saying, if you're saying this meal on its. own, we need a little green vegetable.

Okay, counter to your counter. Okay. You have to propose a different dish that would be better because I think you might find your way over to a spinach ditch that would be great. But then I think it would really drop the ball on a lot of other categories, the fiber and the protein and the antioxidants. So I might have the antioxidants and I think it's maybe fibrous. regardless. So this is like, yeah, there's never going to be a perfect meal.

Right. Unless you're just making a smoothie. Well, yeah. Which I used to do. Yeah. It's too much. I don't like it. That's my issue. Yeah. It's also too cold for my mouth. I think it is ironic that I've been making fun of Will for Brimley for 40 years now in those oatmeal commercials. And lo and behold, that's my most consistent meal. Same as you made fun of catheter, cowboy, and then you had to get one. And then I had calf. Yeah. And I don't like pain when I just like him. Exactly. Have we not spoken since Halloween?

I guess not. Yeah, no fact check. Wow. We have a lot to catch up. That feels so long for a catch-up. Yeah. For the audience, for the cherries. I guess the Halloween was Friday and today is Wednesday.

Yeah. Yeah, let's talk about Halloween. Okay, but hold on. We can't go on without addressing your tooth. Oh. I thought it'd be cool if we didn't address my tooth, but I'm happy to. Okay, yeah, there's no way. I've been wanting a gold tooth for, I don't know, seven years.

I think even when we interviewed Kirby. Oh, yeah. Didn't we discuss it? And I think we did. And I think we did. And then our good friend Eric found for me this dentist that we both go to, who would have known that this very normal, classy dentist also does gold teeth and shit? Yes.

So I had a grill made. Yeah. That was first. I mean, I should wear that one of these fact checks. That one's not very attractive. Okay. It's intentionally not. Okay.

Yeah. Because it's for a character I'm going to play. Oh, thank you. Oh, yeah. I guess I assumed you knew that somehow. No, I didn't. Okay. Okay.

So the grill is for a character I'm playing. Got it. They did not ask for. But great. Okay. Fun. And then I, and it was a, it came at some expense for me. to have this thing made.

Sure. Well, acting is expensive in the heart. It takes a toll. You pay a price. I sent a photo to the showrunner, and I was like, look, use them, don't use them. I don't care. I did have these made. Yeah.

And God bless, he said, use them for sure. Great. Yes. Oh, fun. And I don't think that's a topic I can tackle. I'm, well, I'll tackle it. I am having, again, and I think it's in the effort of being honest. or in the pursuit of honesty.

I don't need to make money for the acting, right? So I said to them, I don't just pay me the minimum. Wow. Please pay me minimum. Give it to another actor you want to hire for the budget, right? It's not even that nice of me, but for me it was so. That's a huge growth. It was an emotional thing where it's like I used to be so panicked all the time.

Like, please, you got to pay me the most because I probably never work again, that whole thing. And this is like, I just want to come play and you guys don't have to pay me. I know legally you have to, but whatever the minimum of that is. Wow, that's huge. That's really awesome. Yeah, it feels great. And actually, it's how I should have been started acting. But you can't, though.

But also, also, also, yeah, money is. We need it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so you are lucky enough to not. I don't need it now. Yeah. And now I can act solely to go play with people, I think, be fun to play with. And it's, I love it. That's great. Okay, now the tooth. Okay, the tooth. So then

the tooth I just always wanted. So the tooth is for me. Sure. Okay. So it's nothing to do with the jobs or, okay. No, no, no. And how do you feel with the tooth in? How do you feel? I'm largely unaware of it other than I like to play with the backing with my, um, my tongue. Yesterday was day one with it. I went to the movies and I, and, uh, you got to take it out to eat. but I was like, may I get away with some popcorn? Oh, God. Because I can throw it past the gold tooth and just get it on the molars. Oh, my gosh.

So I did mess around with some popcorn with it still in. Okay. And then I went to, now this is a big thing I learned yesterday. I went out to lunch with a friend and I took it out. And I'm like, I have nowhere to put it. So I put it in the tiny little pocket on my jeans. So I won't lose it there. And then when the meal was over and I wanted to put my tooth back,

back in the backside is like it's like the back of earrings the back oh so it's like it had a poke through the denim and I could not get it out it was like embedded in my jeans it has a post yeah on the backside there's two like um uh what do they call them vampire clips like you'd have on a mic oh to to snap into your tooth and so not only did those puncture the denim and were caught in there like I was like trying to get a fishing hook out of my pocket and And then it was all miscalibrated. Oh, shit. I had bent up the fucking day one.

Oh, no. Yeah. So then I recalibrated them. And then a lot of the movie, I was like, hmm, I didn't do that right. That feels really tight like a orthodontia. Now, is it, is it, did they do anything to your actual tooth? Oh, no. Okay.

Well, they took a mold, which is how they make it. Right. But then they didn't, like, have to, like, shave anything down or anything, right? Oh, man. you're really getting all the secrets out of me. So he's like, close your mouth. Okay, it's hitting here. You know what we ended up doing, which feels insane?

Veneers. No. We ended up grinding my real tooth down a little bit. So it would fit with my fake tooth. And I was like, is this a, what am I? This is like a fad I'm going through. And I've already altered my bottomsie to match this fad. I wasn't going to tell anyone that part.

Yeah. Oh, you told me. And now you told everyone. Which one did they show? So this one's now a little. He's like, that one's too big anyways. He sold me on it like that. The one that's now small?

The baby tooth? I got the one that goes backwards, the jacked one. And then next to that is this one. You think that's small now? Oh my God. You do know the look on your face was like it looks small. It's shorter than it's shorter. It's shorter.

Why do you do that? So it would fit my fake tooth. Okay. All right. It's fine. It's great. I knew I shouldn't tell you that detail. It looks great.

But I did go, this is nuts. I'm grinding my real teeth down. And then I'm like, I don't know, who cares? I also think who cares a lot. Oh, my God. I'm a little. Mom, this tastes good for me. Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

Oh, boy. Okay. Um, now Halloween. Okay, Halloween. It was spectacular. So fun. Per usual, hay ride by you. Hayride was louder and brighter.

It was so, it's so great. He sent me a very nice text a couple days later. Yeah, and I meant it. Like, it's a very, very special thing you do for the neighborhood. Everyone in the neighborhood hops on and is in such a good, mood and it's such a community builder and we just don't have things like that anymore and it's a really special thing it's kind of small towny which i like you're like in l.A but it's very small towny really it's just like everyone coming together and cheering and being excited and it's very special

it is very special it is very special and my brother was there for the first time he wrote to me the whole night and he did some filming which was lovely that's his new hobby oh and it was a great like getting to spend three hours with my brother driving around and it's just funny because siblings is funny right so sometimes when I would make the turn into the alley people would cheer yeah I cheered you thank you you probably let it cheer because you know I like that and I'm a cheerleader and you're yes you have the credentials um and then other times crickets oh so my brother would like oh you know like he was like making fun of me a little bit which was but very good natured yeah And then if they would cheer, he would be like, oh, God damn, I should have been recording.

But then a couple times I would yell out the window when you go through the thing. And he's like, it's kind of a cheat because you're kind of initiating the channel. I was like, you're right. That is a little. Okay, it doesn't count. Yeah. That's true. That's true.

And then, yeah, we had the in and out truck. You guys went all out. It's so fun. Yeah, you guys got an in and out truck for the, for the neighborhood. It's for so many people to enjoy and it's really lovely. Halloween is a special holiday because everyone shows up eventized. They've put together a costume. So like everyone's arrival is fun for them.

It's fun for you. Everyone feels special because you're getting the attention. They're trying to figure out your costume. Yeah. So it's just like very heightened. In some ways it's a very vulnerable holiday. Tell me more. Because if you go like sexy.

If you do anything, you're just deciding to like put your stuff. out there, participate, and look silly, perhaps. Like, I always feel it because I normally park a street down. Uh-huh. And I remember when we did Harry Potter Halloween and I was Rita Skeeter. And I had a wig and it's like bright green outfit. You look like a little schoolgirl, as I remember, didn't you? No, I mean, she did have a quill, but no, she was a lady.

She's a lady. Yeah. Oh, last year, I was a little married Kate and Ashley. Oh, that's what you're thinking. Yeah, that was the overalls. I'm thinking more of the bookworm, but I guess you were a teacher. But it came across as like a, okay. Anywho, it was really a look. And I remember when I parked and I got out of my car, I was like, oh my, I got it.

I can't do this. Yeah, like, I don't think this walk. I'm going to make it. Like, I'm so embarrassed. Oh, wow. But then as soon as I enter with all these people doing the same thing, it was gone and happy. So I think it's vulnerable. Do you know this story about Charlie?

Getting in the fight? Yeah. Yeah. Please tell it. It's so good. Okay. Again, for people, I know everyone knows. We did mashups.

That was our theme. Right. And quickly, to explain a mashup, you're going to come, they're going to share one mutual word. Yes. So what was Carrie Bradshaw, shank, redemption was Kristen. Yes, that was Kristen.

You were row, row, row, row, the row, row, your bow. The row, row, your bow. It has to be the row because it was the row. Yes, right. I was for Ariana Grande. You were for Ariana Grande. People were upset because in the picture I posted, you had left, so you weren't in the adult picture,

which was a bummer. Oh. There was one with you with the kids, but I didn't post that, obviously. Okay. Anyway, okay, Charlie and Erica and their two children were on their way, and they were close to the house, and they, Erica was Edward's Scissor Handmaid's Tale. She's fantastic. It was so good.

And Charlie was Hot Dog the Bounty Hunter. And he crushed it. It was so good, but he's in this huge hot dog cost him. He's in a huge hot dog, and he has the huge blonde wig on with the braids in the side. Yeah. And as we know, Perfect 10, Charlie is enormous, a human. Yeah. And now they're on their way to the party, and he somehow pissed off a motorcyclist.

Yes. They got in a tiff. He, like, and he waved and apologized, and that wasn't enough. Yeah. So when Charlie turned into our driveway, the motorcycle decided to come back and get in front of his car in our driveway. Yeah. And let him have it. Yes.

And he did this. Yeah, he made that cutting your throat side. Yes, which is so weird. And Charlie, it's funny. certainly and I were bonding over this because this happened to me more than once, which is like, I'm nice, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. And if you're now indulgent and you're in, then I go, okay, motherfucker, like, then I snap. Well, also, it wasn't just like you owe me an apology.

He was threat. He was being like so aggressive and threatening. Yes. So ultimately, it got to the point where Charlie, he got out, fuck this and got out of the car. Yeah. And this owner's cyclist, what could he? of thought. First of all, he's a hot dog. He's dog the bounty hunter. And he's huge. And he's screaming at this guy as a huge hot dog. Hot dog, the bounty hunter. I wish there was video

so badly. It was so sitcom-esque, this idea of a Halloween fight in these people looking absolutely ridiculous. A hot dog gets out. Oh my God. And like so serious. Yes. And if you got beat up by a hot dog, that would be so humiliating. Anyway, the Hayride was fantastic.

And the neighborhood took it to another level. Oh, my God. Yes. I believe we can credit a friend of the pod for this. Yeah, I wonder. I'm not sure. So, but I do think. I do too.

Yes. Ellen Pompeo. Yes. Friend of the pod. She was like, oh, you want to do a hay ride? I got tricks too. Yes. And she hired six professional actors to be zombies.

Yes. Going around the neighborhood like you were at not Scott, not scary farm or universal war or like. Yes. So we worked in perfect concert with the hayride because people would be on the hayride and all a sudden zombies were like chasing them and stuff. Yes. It became the haunted hayride. It was so amazing and it really, again, just the commitment.

Yeah. I did get a little. I mean, I was personally extremely scared. Yeah. There is a very funny husband, wife story that came out of this, right? Which is like, I pull up into the same spot in the neighborhood every time for people to unload and load. Yes. And people know that's where you get on or off the haywright.

So I pull up and Kristen's there and she's like, you got to go find these. zombies. And I go, what? She's like, you have to talk to the zombies. You got to tell them they got to stop scaring kids. Oh, I was nervous about that. And I go, oh, hon, I can't deliver that. Sure. Like, that's just what this day is. Yeah. And she's like, three little kids have already left. And I was like, oh, fuck. I know. We don't want that. We don't want kids leaving Halloween. I know. So I'm like, oh, you know me. I'm want to be cool. Of course.

So I'm like, fuck. And I'm the one that's going to see Ellen next because I'll be at the top of the hill. And it's such a cool thing she's doing.

It's so cool. Yeah. So I get to the top of the hill and she's out in front of her house. And I go, hey, I really hate delivering this note.

I think it goes against the spirit of the holiday. But if the zombies can maybe not scared the little kids. Okay, great. And she's like, yeah, yeah,

zombies don't scare. She didn't care at all. I don't think the zombies cared at all. Okay. But I did have to, like, clamp down on the zombies, which felt really compromising. Yeah, that sucks. Yeah, but probably was the right thing.

I did think, I did think, uh-oh, like these are scary. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And what about these little kids if I'm scared? Well, some left, Monica, is what I was told. We walked. Yeah, Rob, what was, what were the boys? We walked up there first and Vinny was leading the charge, like, just walking. And they were, they laid off him.

They were just like one feet tall. But even just seeing them as a little scary. Yeah, did they give Calvin hell? Yeah, yeah, they chase Calvin a little bit. Oh, did he like it or hate it? Yeah, he loved it. Oh, good, good, good, good. Yeah, that's the thing.

You don't know who's going to love it and who's not. One of the zombies knew my name. Oh. Which was flattering. Yeah. But also scary. I didn't like it. Right.

I'm a car. Oh. That's what she did. It was a girl. Yeah, yeah, I think. Because what if it was one of the boys' zombies? Oh, she called you pretty? Oh, this is all very flattering.

But it was too scary. I'd date you. Maybe it was groth or what, what's his name? Groot. No, not Groot, the grandson. The, the scary singer. Oh, Gwar. Gwar.

The horned pig face goblin. Yeah. Yeah, maybe it was actually Guar. What was his name? Blothar the Berserker. We should have invited Guar to the, fuck, should we have Gwar? Oh my God. Because I'm like this whole night, I'm like, we've, we've peaked.

I really don't even know if we should host next year. Well, you have to, yeah. But fuck, if you got to the top of the turnaround and Guar was on a stage up there shooting blood out of their penises and stuff, you think kids were leaving with the zombies. We'd to Blothar the Blasaster gets his penises out. We've got to get Guar performing in the neighborhood. Okay. This made me put,

I was going to wear pants over all those penises. Yeah. He's de-sexualize it a little bit. Just a little bit on Halloween. Uh, I guess that's it for Halloween. It was just really fun. Yeah, it was so much fun.

It was really, really fun. What a holiday. One thing we need to talk about. Oh, God, yes. And we're adorned in it right now. So not a problem. Not a problem.

You guys. Our new merch is the best we've had ever. Absolutely ever. It's so high quality. This is actual embroidery. Embroitered. And yeah, so for the listener, you might want to go to YouTube to see it. I'm wearing a sweatshirt, black, gorgeous sweatshirt. It says armchair expert has a crow on it, has a little mouse on the sleeve, tiny mouse. Very cute little mouse. And I really can't get around the, over the quality. The quality off the charts. I, and I've been wearing this nonstop. I wear like four days in a row. Yeah. It just got out of the wash, though, for today. Finally, a really great station shirt. And then I'm going to turn around us. Look at the back.

Yeah. Yeah. It's great. Hey, y'all. Really great station. So this is going to be available in time for Christmas. In time of the holidays. But it's coming out.

November 14th for pre-order. November 14th for pre-order. And there's other stuff too. There's plenty of, there's lots of stuff. Oh, I got a hoodie here too. A new gorgeous hoodie. Show the hoodie. I'm going to show off the hoodie.

Um, it, it has a cute crow embroidered. Gosh, yeah. Oh, my God. And also has a mouse on the sleeve. Anna has cherries on the hood. Yeah. But it's all very minimal and like cheap. It's very discreet.

It's a really good looking collection guys. Yeah, I applaud you, Monica. You really spearheaded and steamrolled. What is it? What are the words we used? You're really micromanaged. You know, well, you made people's life hell to get. here. Yeah, well, you know. You really did all this and it turned out great. I'm so into it.

It's a really nice classic collection and we're excited to put it out. I think I was wearing one the other day, too. There's a super cute, um, heart shaped cherries. I love that one. Yeah. What does it say on that one? Just arm's shirt? Okay. Have a good time. Have a great time. We love it here. Guar. Vote for Guar. Yeah. So go check that out and pre-order and it'll be it for domestic. it'll be ready by the holidays. By yourself something for Christmas. Yeah, do it. Okay.

So I started watching a show, an old show. Me too. Oh, my God. Wow, it's in the air. What did you watch? No, I don't want Trump your thing. Defending Jacob. It was a show, it's a show on Apple, and it's older.

It's older than Apple? 2020. 2020. Okay. And it has Chris Evans and is adapted from a book, and it's a little bit of a who done it. It's kind of like a broad church, whodunit, presumed innocence. Sure. Murder mystery.

Exactly. And, you know, obviously I watched the whole thing in two days because that's how I operate. Yeah, yeah. And there was something really interesting. So you used to, you haven't brought this up in a long time, but you used to bring us. up a, um, something you read about a gene that you called like, um, you called Matt, Matt. Oh, M. A.O. You called it M.A.O. Yeah, yeah. This is the watching the grass grow gene. Right. So, so yeah, you talk about it and you say, it's not a gene. It's just a chemical in your brain.

People have high levels of it and low levels of it. Okay. And then what happened? Tell people about it. Well, if you have a lot of M.A.O, you're very content to watch the grass grow. And if you, a very low M.A.O. You need a lot to stimulate you. So these are like adventure seekers and adrenaline junkies. Right. Now, you used to talk about that all the time. And I think I probably like looked it up at some point. I don't remember. But on this show, they talk about something called the murder gene or the warrior gene. Oh, warrior gene. And it is the M-A-O-A gene. Oh. So maybe that's a gene that makes. I think it's connected to this.

Yeah, it's monoamine oxidasis, M-A-O-A, enzyme, which breaks down transmitters like serotonin, dopamine, and noraephenephrine. Low levels of this enzyme are linked to a predisposition for aggressive behavior, especially when combined with environmental factors like childhood trauma. The M-A-O-A gene is located on the X chromosome leading to differences in how it affects males and females. But, yeah. So it's passed by mom. Oh. Isn't that interesting? They talk about that in the show.

Oh, wow. Yeah. And so some, like in the show, I don't know how, I don't know if this is used in real life. But like in the show, they test kid for, yeah, this boy, Jacob for it. And they test the family. Yeah. Jacob doesn't have it. We doesn't have it.

Yes. Okay. It doesn't have it. But also the mom, because it's passed through the mom and the dad and the grandpa have it. Okay. And the maternal grandpa. No. Okay.

Okay. You just got to watch it. Okay. In the show. Yeah. This is a spoiler. Well, it's five years old. Yeah.

Chris Evans has the son. And then he also has a dad. But he's been lying about the dad. He says he didn't know his dad. He never knew his dad. But turns out he did know his dad. And when he was about six, The dad went to jail for rape and murder.

Oof. I wish it would just murder. Yeah. Everyone wishes that. Yeah. It's played by J.K. Simmons. Oh, we love J.K. Simmons. Love.

Yes. So Jacob is in a little bit of a pickle. Uh-huh. Okay. A legal issue? Yeah. And so the legal team is trying to see if they can say that he has this gene in case he's found guilty. They can say it's, it's, it's.

It's not as fall. Okay. Okay. Okay. So I just thought this was a full circle moment. Yeah, that really is. Murder Gene. No, I want to watch it.

I've decided to start Boardwalk Empire. Oh, I never watched that. It's great. Of course it was it. Within two episodes, I'm like, yeah, this is phenomenal. This is like Sopranos kind of. It's fun to find shows. It is.

If anyone else wants to recommend more whodunits, I'm in the mood for whodunits. I'll try to keep my thinking cap on. Okay. All right, now we can talk about facts. Facts. It was so cool that he did Silence of the Lambs. Then we got him to.

That was scary. You know what's funny is I would never have the gall to say, like, could you give me a little Clarice? Yeah. But he just did it on his own and I thought, like, get out of the way. Yeah. Hopefully he'll do this for the next 30 minutes. I could have watched his entire role. Exactly.

Yeah. We should invite someone on to do their whole role from something. What would you pick? Nicholas Cage from Vampire's Kemp. Yes. I know. Because I need you to see him count to or do the alphabet. Yeah, I want to see that. Also, though, that's tricky because we also want to talk to him. Like, who are you willing to not talk to, but just have them do their role? Tom Cruise as well would be a good one. Oh. Because as I've said on here, many times, and this is another pledge to anyone in his world or sphere. Yeah. I won't ask a single hard hitting question. Yeah. I just want to talk about his career. I don't care if he can. killed someone on the way over. I won't mention it. For anyone listening, I have not agreed to that pledge. That's not your thing. Yeah. Yeah. People have already yelled at me and it hasn't even happened.

People are like, you can't have them on and I. And I said, no, I can just worship somebody. Yeah. Because you get a lot, you know, you get a lot of the other version. It's okay if I just flate someone once in a while. You can. I won't be doing that. Okay. What are you going to ask? Because you might just rule us out. Would you kill on the way home? And how'd you do it? We both know. He saved somebody on the way over it. Yeah, that's probably right. That's probably right.

Yeah. Okay. Let's see. He said, he thought Edgar Allan Poe said, if we think about it, our lives have been written by some other author. Now, that quote, it seems, is a misattribution and a popular misunderstanding of a philosophy expressed by Will Durant. Says Durant did not say this, but he wrote about how other people's opinions and actions can influence our lives. Who's Will Durant?

Historian and philosopher. He's a philosopher. What era? 1885. He was born. You know, my kids have grown fond of saying to me, you were born in the 1900s. And it sounds so funny. Because it's true.

And it's true. I know. But it sounds ridiculous. It does. She's like, oh, you were born in the 1900s. How tall is the Empire State Building? He knew that because of his books. Yeah.

Do you want to guess? Okay. I think it's probably 70 stories. So I'm going to say 680 feet. More. More. Is it like 100 stories? It doesn't say stories on here.

Okay. I'm sure it's. 860 feet. It's 1,250 feet. Almost a quarter. of a mile. That's a lot. Almost a car a mile.

Oh, my God. Do you ever get toothpaste? Hour? Yeah. It's really tall. Yeah, that's much taller than I would have expected. Say it again, 1,200 feet. So it's got to be like 110 stories or 108 stories.

And it's actually 1,454 feet to the tip. 1,04, so more than a quarter of mine. Wow. 102 stories. 102 stories. I don't want to go to that 100. Actually, I've been. I forgot.

Yeah, with Kristen. We went to the top. For a press thing or something? Yeah. It's so funny all the places you end up going on a press thing. And you can't, because you didn't frame it right, you don't really experience it. Yeah, it's a different thing. I have to go to the Empire State Building today.

Right. At 10 o'clock and then we got to be blank at what. Yes. And then you're leaving. And you're like, oh, fuck, I was up there and I didn't even really. I know. And you do go up some, like, creepy stairs. To get to the tippities?

Yeah. Oh, I thought it was interesting because he knew Hitler's, I mean, his just his memory was so amazing. Yeah. And he knew Hitler's doctor's name immediately. Like, you were telling a story and you said Hitler's doctor and he said Dr. Morrell. Yeah. And he just knew it. Yeah.

Wow. Oh, I know. We were discussing this, you and I off Mike. Mm-hmm. And I was saying we have found this with a lot of people that were born in the 30s, 40s, 50s, my mom. Yeah. I do think there's something to be said with. There was no stimuli.

There was like, you watch TV for an hour at night. Yeah. That there was just way less info hitting you. I guess. And so everyone of that age seems to have a much higher retention of names of kids and teachers from their youth. I think that's a good theory. I mean, there is something. What else?

Something is different. Yeah, something is different. Or maybe it's that we're juggling a much hugger pool of people because we're online and that opens you up to like thousands of people or whatever. Something, there's something, something has to be the explanation. But he like new lines, he like new lines from movies and stuff he wasn't in. But that part is, I think, unique to him. That's his, like, that's why he can do Shakespeare. Right, right.

Like he has that kind of memory. Yeah. Remembering sonnets and poems and stuff. I can't do that. I have some rap songs from the 90s. I know inside now. One. Do it.

Would you like to? No, you never enjoy when I do colors. When you do colors? That's always the one I'll do. That's the one Aaron and I'll do together. I am a nightmare walking, cycle pair stalking. King of my jungle, just a gangster stalking. Living life like a firecracker, cook is my fuse.

Then there is the death. That's the colors I choose. Red of blue because of blood. It just don't menace. I could die for your life when a shotgun scatter. We come in L.A. We never die. We're just multiple.

Five colors. That's just the first verse. Nice. We could go on. You can go on. You won't. You want. Was Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf, Mike Nichols' first film? Yes. Highly recommend. Yeah. And Edward Albee play. It was one of my theater professor's favorite plays. So she would talk about it all the time. You know stuff that we don't know? I don't think so. You don't remember. Yeah, I don't have the memory that he has. So no. What do you remember? You remember? You remember? You remember? You remember? You remember? You remember? You remember? You remember? You remember? remember Friends episodes in great detail? Not in as much detail as I used to. It's actually very sad. I don't like to be put to the test because it makes me sad. Yeah. I used to be able to name all the episodes and stuff like that. I don't think I could do that anymore. I used to know every single word in Smokey and the Bandit, like from beginning to end, every single world word in Raising Arizona beginning to end. There were movies I knew inside now. Goodwill hunting, obviously. Yeah, I did. I did someone's podcast and they put this to the test. They had me finish lines of Goodwill hunting. And I couldn't do it. Like, I did a couple, but I missed a lot. And it was really upsetting.

I'm sorry, they did that to you. I would never do that to you. Thank you. Is that a commitment? Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Out loud. A verbal pledge. Well, that's it. That was all the facts. Yeah. He knew Hitler's. Well, I just thought that was interesting. It sure was. It's more like a. It is a fact. He got it right.

We had like, we named the things we thought were interesting about it. I mean, that is a lot of what I do. That's true. So I guess it's in keeping. It's a fact that you found it interesting. I checked it and it was correct. The name was right. Yeah.

Yeah. It's impressive. It really is. That's it. All right. Love you. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

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