Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Armchair Anonymous: Alcoholics Anonymous

Episode Date: February 2, 2024

Dax and Monica talk to Armcherries! In today's episode, Armcherries tell us about the craziest thing they've seen at an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Trip Planner by Expedia. You were made to have strong opinions about sand. We were made to help you and your friends find a place on a beach with a pool and a marina and a waterfall and a soaking tub. Expedia. Made to travel. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Anonymous Alcoholics Anonymous Stories. A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A- earmark those for later because I've seen some shit. I've been involved in some shit, but some of these were outrageously sweet and cute. I think you can listen, but depending on your experience in life, you might find it a bit triggering. Yeah. If you're an addict, you're just going to love it because as an addict, we just love talking about it. I think that was what was my favorite part is I'm getting to talk to fellow members, which happens, but not

all in a row. Yeah, for sure. And I loved it. It's lovely. And I don't think it's triggering for addicts. Yes. For people who love addicts, I'm sure it's triggering. It was for you. A little bit. Yeah. But I loved it. So don't listen. Unless you're sober, you'll go to the next episode. If you're sober, oh. Oh, what? I got confused at the language. Yeah. If you're sober, go to the next episode. If you're sober, oh. Oh, what? I got confused at the language. Yeah, if you're sober, you can listen. Yeah, and if you love someone who's an addict.

If you love anyone else in the whole world, don't listen. I don't know if that's true. How'd you do with it, Rob? You're not an addict. It was good. It was fun. Yeah, you're also not married to an addict. That probably good. That was fun. Yeah. You're also not married to an addict. That probably helps.

I'm trying to prolong this intro as long as humanly possible because I just made a little bit of a foul odor over here, and I'm hoping that if I go long, long, long, long, long, we won't stand up after this. I feel like I kind of smell it. Oh, my gosh. I don't doubt that you do. Please enjoy Alcoholics Anonymous Crazy Stories. Hello. I feel like we're matching. You gotta know I'ma keep on shining Hello!

I feel like we're matching. So your white t-shirt, colorful tattoos peeking out. I'm white t-shirt, colorful tattoos peeking out. Very true. This is off to a great start. Of course you're calling with an AA story. This is perfect. I just put that together. I looked at what our prompts were.

I have a lot of those. Where are you in the country? Right now I'm in North Carolina, but this story takes place in Southern California. Where I've seen most of my crazy ones. There's some crazy ones out here too, but different type of people. Okay, so hit us, Mari. Yeah, let's hear it. Okay, so this story takes place when I was probably six months sober, maybe closer to a year in Ojai, California.

So I had a big day at work. So I knew I needed to get to a meeting. And unfortunately, in my schedule, the only meeting I could make it to was this particular meeting. And I hated this meeting because the secretary of this meeting, he's just kind of an ass, but I knew I needed to go. My sponsor always told me like, look, if you're not getting anything out of the meeting, you need to bring something to the meeting. So I went and as the meeting's going on, it's a fairly normal meeting and we're passing the basket. He's asking if there's any AA related announcements and they're talking about some kickball game

that's coming up soon. And I'm not really paying attention, but I start to notice the secretary's starting to get a little peeved. So they're talking about changing the rules about kickball. Again, it's just a bunch of drunks playing kickball. And so he's getting upset. They do like a group vote and the vote goes against him. And so he's pissed and he's counting the money and he's just mumbling things under his breath and i'm nosy so i'm just like what's gonna happen now well it's probably deeper than that marie it's probably spidey senses oh i know shit's gonna pop off because i grew up where it pops off and who's gonna be first a hundred percent so i'm just kind of like sitting back in my chair waiting for something to

happen spectacular and i see him like starting to take some of the money that's supposed to go into the little envelope. It's AA's money, not his money. And he's starting to take it and put it in his backpack. And I was like, that's weird. And no one really notices and he's still mumbling stuff under his breath. And then someone starts to notice.

He's like quite literally taking all of maybe $15 into his backpack. And I see something sparkly at the top of his backpack. And I'm like, what in the world? And someone's calling him out for, you know, taking the money. And he shoves the rest of the basket into his backpack. And he pulls out not one, but two sparkly red, glittery women's thongs. Whoa. Whoa. Okay. Whoa, whoa, whoa.

And he takes them and he slingshots them one by one across the room. That's his weapon of choice. I was shocked. I knew something was going to happen, but I did not see that coming. Maybe it was biological warfare. Maybe there was some contaminant on there. I don't know. I don't think it actually hit anybody, but he was aiming for that.

It's also important to note that he's not always sober. And so, you know, he wasn't probably in the best place, but he continues to say all of these things, you know, both middle fingers up and he's taking his backpack. He just keeps yelling like, AA's a cult. You guys are a cult. Which in his defense, I kind of thought AA was a cult too when I first heard it. And in many ways, it meets lots of the criterias. Did you say he

was the secretary though? Yeah, which is wild because you have to meet certain requirements to get those positions. And I don't think he really met them. And did he abscond with the money or did anyone intervene and go like, well, you got to leave the money behind. So basically, he gets escorted out. It was mostly women in this meeting. And he's kind of a bigger guy. So no one really was eager to get up and push him out. But we had this man who would come to our meetings. And I think he was there for the coffee in the warm room. The man who kind of escorted him out ended up just taking the backpack and leaving. He was a homeless man that would just frequent the meetings. And it was probably all of $15, you know, like it wasn't

an obscene amount of money. It was kind of just like the principle of that's not really what we do here. Right. So wait, so everyone chips in at meetings to just like keep the meeting going, basically. From my understanding, it's just for like the cookies and the coffee. Whatever rent might be due at the church basement you're at the seventh tradition we're supposed to be self-funded and independent of anyone it was in fact in a basement as well so what's interesting though is this gentleman who now i know is unhoused sounds like he was also active in the kickball league if he had such strong opinions about the rules so the secretary was not unhoused. The man who pushed him out was.

Oh, I thought this story was going in a direction where someone's going to object to this being a very non-AA related bit of business before the meeting. I felt like it was very non-AA related. We're talking about kickball. But, you know, I told my sponsor, hey, look, I got my meeting in. I'm never going to that meeting again. Have you ever seen a fistfight at a meeting? I've seen quite a few. I used to go with my grandma to meetings. She was 50 years sober before she passed.

And we used to go to a lot of the meetings in Malibu. This is like before I knew I needed a seat there. Right. And I just used to think it was cool seeing all these people. And there was quite a few things that would happen. Well, look, these are adrenaline junkies that have unplugged from all the drama. And a lot of us have trauma and we're quick to feel like our life is being threatened over something small like rules in a kickball game. A hundred percent.

But the good news is, is most of us have grown up in those situations. So we find it pretty amusing and exciting. Oh, yeah. I was like, this is a great start to my day. I was just sitting back. I was like, I got to go to work later. I got to deal with a bunch of rude people at work. So this is entertaining.

How long have you been sober? I will be five years sober in March. Oh, man. That's so terrific. Thank you. And you seem pretty young to have five years. Yes, I am 28. Wow.

Yes. I'm most. Wow. Yes. I'm most impressed with young people who can put together long-term sobriety. It hasn't been easy, but we have a good life now. I have a little girl. Yay. Did you meet your partner in the program? No, I didn't. I met him on Tinder.

Oh, wonderful. Love to hear that. He's not sober, but he doesn't really drink that often. So it works. Well, Mari, it's great to meet you. Thanks for sharing. Thank you so much. Can I just say something really quickly?

Of course. You have been a huge part of my sobriety. And this podcast got me through the early years of sobriety. It just brought like a sense of comfort to me. Oh, thank you. And then also, so my grandparents used to go to church in Malibu. And one of their buddies was Craig T. Nelson. Oh, wonderful.

By the way, the first thing I thought of when you said Malibu was Craig T. Parenthood's my favorite show ever. I used to always tell him, please tell Dax I said hi, you know, as if he was going to. But he was at my grandpa's funeral. Oh, no kidding. He's a very nice man. Oh, he's the nicest. Well, you got to tell him yourself.

Yes, it's much better. It's very true. All right. Well, nice meeting you. Good luck down there in North Carolina with the little baby. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. She's in a little cherry onesie today.

Oh my gosh. Oh, wonderful. On brand. So nice meeting you. You too. Take care. My bus is stressing me out so much. Why? So much that it took over all

my dreams last night because it stopped charging off the generator in the dunes i thought when i got home and plugged it into the 50 amp it start charging the batteries it didn't other batteries died completely which is catastrophic for the bus then yesterday i was trying to put just a normal battery charger on the batteries directly so i had like a four and a half hour dream last night about my house, the plumbing backing up and shit being spilled all over the basement and the floors. And I just couldn't get my hands around the shit. It was overwhelming. And I was in the dream thinking like, at some point this house has to just be thrown out. Too much poop everywhere. Oh my God. Yes.

I had a weird dream too where I was in college. We were being taught this concept. Everyone understood it except me. Oh. And I was like, I don't. And I kept asking questions and I couldn't. You couldn't grasp it. Couldn't grasp it.

It was weird though i don't know what it meant stressful it was stressful it was going on and on same i won't stop poop everywhere and it wasn't my poop either ew that would have been manageable hello oh my god but also look at this pattern that's already erupted. Oh, my God. You're right. Second member of the Secret Society. I'm in a white tee with colorful tattoos sticking out. You're in a white tee with colorful tattoos. And our last guest, a female white tee, colorful tattoos sticking out.

Did she have this impressive collection of Jordans behind her? Not a chance, David. Nobody has that level of. I'm seeing on the very top shelf in the middle, we have a pair of the same shoes, but those aren't Jordans, right? Those middle top green and orange. Those are different.

Nevermind. Those are Dunks. They are Dunks. These are all Dunks and Jordans, but you spotted them well. Okay. Where are you at, David? I am in Northern Westchester,

about an hour north of New York City in a town called Katona. And are you from there? I'm from New York City. And you've sought out a bucolic lifestyle up in the farm country? Yeah, we moved up to the country from the city about four years ago when our twins were born right around COVID. You timed that perfectly.

Twins and COVID. It wasn't intentional. Are you a member of the Secret Society? Proud member. Me too. Card-carrying member. And I'm sure you've seen a lot of shit over the years, right? It might even be hard to pick what story to tell.

That's exactly what went through my mind when I saw the prompt. So many crazy things. And then I thought, how much you guys love poop and blood. I was like, this is a hotbed of poop and blood stories. It is? Oh, God. And then not only are you witnessing some real-time events unfold, but also most people's open talks are going to involve quite a bit of humiliation.

And quite often that involves pootie and blood. I've been a member since I was 18. I'm 44. Wow. That's so impressive. That is so impressive. I haven't been sober the whole time, but I have been sober for the better part of the last 11 years.

Okay, wonderful. I can relate. I've heard day seven. I'm a huge fan of that particular episode. Oh, thank you. And you'll hear some parts of my version of that story in this story. So I had a lot of data to sift through and choose from for what I could potentially share. But I'd like to think I went with the story that's the most meaningful to me personally. Oh, wonderful. And let me just say before we start, just a quick shout out. I love this podcast. It's the only

podcast I listen to. And I really started listening to it about three years ago with my stepdaughter, Georgia, who's about to turn 17 in April. We live in the country, so we drive everywhere now. And so I'm often in the car with her. She just got her driver's license. So that's probably going to end soon because she's going to drive herself. But we started just listening to Armchair Expert all the time whenever we were driving. And she has no clue that I'm doing this. Oh my God. Her name is Georgia. You can say hi to her. Hi, Georgie. Thanks for turning

your handsome stepdad onto me. Georgia or Georgie? Georgia, like the state. But are you calling her Georgie as a term of endearment? I just heard that in my head. You know, you just misheard me.

I call her Georgia like her actual name. As pronounced on her birth certificate. Shout out to Georgia. Georgia, on my mind. That's right. And of all the stories I could tell, this story actually is about her mother,

so I'm sure she's going to love it. Oh, good. Can you guys hear me okay? Perfectly. Those Jordans are dampening all of extraneous noises. These are just the ones that you see behind me. There's so many more that I didn't make it into the screen. You're preaching to the choir.

My whole attic is full of, yeah. I really like the pair of Jordan 4s that I think you got for Monica, those black ones that I saw on some YouTube clip, Monica, that you posted. Animal Instincts. Those are really nice. I just got these for Christmas. Oh, nice. Oh, I like that. For the listener, they're dark gray. Matt Matte with a bit of that marbled look on the leather pieces. And an orange tag. A little pop. These are threes, not fours, but they're my favorite. Oh, they're really nice.

Oh, yeah, those are gorge. All right, so let me tell you this story. I'll use my real name. My real name's David. My wife's name is Sandy. That's her real name. I won't use our last names, just in the spirit of honoring this tradition thing. I love it.

There's another player in this story who I actually asked her permission yesterday if I could share it. She just asked that I not use her real name. So we're going to call her Jenny. Wonderful. Let's backtrack till around 2003. I went to rehab in New Jersey at a place in Lairstown, New Jersey for 10 and a half months.

Oh my God, were you shooting dope? What were you fucking doing? I was a total wreck. I was going to get kicked out of college. And so I was there for 10 and a half months. And when I got out of there, basically they're like, you got to move to Minnesota. That's where all these young people in AA are. There's tons of halfway houses, sober houses, and we're not going to let you move back to New York. So you can either stay here or we'll

let you go to Minnesota. So I moved to Minnesota and my life got much better. And in 2003, I made my way back to New York City and I was doing really well. And I started going to AA and I met this girl named Jenny at an AA meeting and we completely hit it off. This was actually probably 2004, not 2003. And we dated for a good two to three years. And you were young. I was about 24. She had been sober for a few years longer than I had. But it was a really great relationship. To this day, I always refer to her very fondly as my favorite ex-girlfriend. Yeah, that's a nice honor to have. So things were going really well. I got a job in the city. And at some point I decided I wanted to go to grad school.

So I applied and got into grad school in California. This is now around 2007 and decided to go. So I moved to Northern California for grad school. Right around this time is kind of when the wheels fell off. Stop going to AA meetings. I'm sure you've heard the story a million times, right? Lost connection with all of like my AA sober network. And even though I was still dating Jenny, she could tell that I was different. It was an instant, horrible relapse.

It was like I was planning for the second I got on that plane and went to California, all five years of sobriety that I had completely vanished. Yes. Do you think you were planning it subconsciously? I thought about that a lot. And I picked like the weed capital of California. I'm like, I moved to Berkeley. I was not far from Humboldt County. I picked like the weed capital of California. I'm like, I moved to Berkeley. I was not far from Humboldt County. I think there was definitely part of me that was really psyched to be smoking weed again.

And probably telling yourself, well, that was a manageable one. That didn't send me to treatment. That's exactly right. And I was going to be by myself. I mean, I think maybe I did try to get connected to AA in Northern California for a little, but it wasn't the AA that I had been used to in Manhattan. But really, I was just alone and free. And it was like, all right, I'm going to really take this thing for a ride.

And I did. And it was terrible. And it was really hard getting back. So that was 2007. Jenny and I broke up. She was right to break up with me. I had started using again. And I was like falling asleep at dinners.

That's what I called it. And for some reason, not taking any dumps anymore. Exactly. That's right. And scratching myself like crazy. She was sober in AA. And they say I'd get her drunk much faster than she'd get me sober. So she was right to cut me off.

And she just celebrated 20 years recently. Oh, good on her. So I made it through grad school by the skin of my teeth, but was a full-blown alcoholic by the time that I graduated and really struggled to get back into AA, but did make my way back into AA. There were a couple of rehabs involved, a psych ward. Sure. Fast forward now to 2015.

So eight years later, I've completely lost touch with Jenny. I've been living out in California. I have to ask, are you bumping into Moshe at this point? And he just wrote a book about AA, so I feel like I can ask that. I know Moshe well. Moshe's brother and my brother are best friends. Oh, wow. What a small world. Yes, but I knew Moshe because at the. I know Moshe well. Moshe's brother and my brother are best friends. Oh, wow. What a small world.

Yes, but I knew Moshe because at the time he was living in Oakland. And he was kind of a prophet of AA in his young age. Moshe Kasher? Yeah. Charitable way of putting it. Yeah. By the way, you might want to read his book. I read it for the AA chapter and it's incredible.

I think I pre-ordered it on Amazon. Okay, wonderful. He's a comedian for people who don't know. Great comedian. Married to Natasha Leggero and he's incredible. I think I pre-ordered it on Amazon. Okay. Wonderful. He's a comedian for people who don't know. Great comedian, married to Natasha Leggero and he's brilliant. And has a nice sneaker collection. Indeed. So in 2015, I kind of scraped my way back to New York, but now I'm three years sober again and I've like recommitted myself to AA. So one of the things that we do in AA is, you know, we get to the ninth step and we start reaching out to people to make amends. Now, admittedly, most of the ex-girlfriends in my life, the best amends I can make to them would be to stay out of their lives. Undoubtedly, like never call them, never

reach out to them. And I think I've honored that pretty well. But Jenny, I definitely owed her an amends. The way our relationship ended, I was dishonest. I was telling her I was sober when I wasn't. And I just always liked her so much. There was never really any acrimony or animosity between us. And so I reached out to her and I went to meet her for coffee. I hadn't seen her in nine years and it went great. She had since gotten married and was still sober. It was just really great to see her. I now live back in the same neighborhood on the Upper West Side of Manhattan where we had met and gone to AA together. I didn't know this till after the fact, but after I moved to California, I left in 2007.

I'm talking about three weeks after I moved. She met a girl in AA and they became instant best friends. And that girl's name was Sandy. Oh, okay. This is also a meet-cute. Yes, this is all the stories in one. Okay.

If you shit your pants and end up naked on accident, this is really all the fun. On the very first date with Sandy, actually. So all of these. I didn't know this at the time. I have no clue who Sandy is. I've never heard of her. But I guess they formed a very fast friendship.

And what's been told to me is that as they were friends in the seven years that preceded my return to New York, they would sometimes talk about how they had very different tastes in men. Sandy had gotten divorced in 2012. She had two kids, at the time was dating the younger guy. Jenny had married an older guy that she met. But I guess Jenny had said to Sandy at some point, I feel like I have this one ex-boyfriend where we might actually kind of agree. And guess what? He just moved back from Manhattan. You might be seeing him at meetings.

This is such an AA story from soup to nuts. Definitely. So this is now 2015. On some Saturday morning, I go to this meeting on the Upper West Side that I went to regularly 12, 13 years prior where I had known Jenny. And after the meeting, I had shared, hey, I'm just back in New York. I've been out on the West Coast for a while. I've been sober for three years now. I'm trying to kind of regain my footing in AA. I see this really beautiful girl just kind of beeline right up to me after this meeting, which is in a very small room in a church. This is like a 15-person meeting. This is not some big, like 200-person meeting. And she comes up to me, and obviously I'm psyched. There's this really beautiful girl who just comes right up to me like she knows me. And she goes,

are you David, like Jenny's David? I've never met her before in my life. And the only thing I can think to say, and this is the truth, was like, wow, if that's how I'm known in this Upper West Side community of AA, I can like die happy. That's the best way I could possibly be known as Jenny's David. And I'm like, yeah, I guess I am. And she's like, oh, my name's Sandy. I'm Jenny's best friend. Me and Sandy become like instant friends. We start going to meetings together. We only live like four blocks away from each other. I became very fast friends with her children

who are amazing, Georgia and Levi. We start going to AA meetings. At this time, she's dating someone else. I had a girlfriend at the time, but we really form a very fast friendship. And six, seven months later, we're out to dinner at one point. And I'm like, why are we just not dating? And of course, we have to reach out to Jenny to get her

blessing. Jenny's my ex-girlfriend and her best friend. She's also incredibly cool. So we don't really have too much concern that she's going to oppose this. But we want to make sure that it's co-possessed. So we reach out to her and she's like, oh my god, go for it. So that was in 2016. reach out to her. And she's like, oh my God, go for it. So that was in 2016. We just celebrated our seven-year wedding anniversary yesterday. Oh my gosh. So George and Levi are now my stepkids. We have two kids of our own. We had twins four years ago, Miles and Ella. Jenny spoke at our wedding. Oh, this is lovely. When we moved out of the city, she ended up having a kid and also moved up to Northern Westchester out of the city. So we see her all the time.

Our kids are friends with her kids. It's like a sitcom. And it's just like a really sweet, nice, kind of crazy AA story where, I mean, AA gave me a lot of great things, right? It gave me a nice ride, but it also gave me this amazing life with Sandy. Yeah, I love this story. I also just want to comment, there's some downsides of us as a group and there's some like lovely sides. And I think this story really details one of the more lovely aspects, which is everyone's been through hell and back. Everyone, I think in general, is much less judgmental.

I think the willingness to not be threatened that your best friend's going to date your ex is a very AA occurrence. I know this story so many times. There's just some signature things in this story that are my favorite parts of it. I will say also it's a testament to Jenny. Like, it's just her personality. And it's why probably her and Sandy are such good friends. I knew she wasn't going to care. And far from caring, I knew she was going to be like, not only do I not care, go for it.

I totally see you guys together. Yeah, it is a testament to both of those. It really reminds me of Brie and Carrie, my two long-term girlfriends before I met Kristen. And yeah, I took Brie back to Detroit and her and Carrie instantly became best friends. And I think that correspondence has outlived and outpaced much of my correspondence with either of them. There's something wonderful about that. It was very fortuitous. I got very lucky. I mean, they definitely don't deserve this amazing life that I have. And if it wasn't for Jenny putting in a good word for me. Yeah. Anyone who spends 10 and a half months at a treatment center doesn't end up with a

Jordan collection like this. I mean, this is a beautiful story. I like this ending. Yeah. And that wasn't the first one I was at either. I think from like 18 to 33, I was in six different places. Oh, Lord. Your parents, God bless them. I know, I'm like... I'm presuming your parents always were there to send you. My mom and my dad got divorced.

My dad moved down to Florida when I was 13. But yes, I have two very loving, very dysfunctional parents who are supportive in their own unique way. They try. Yeah.

They never gave up on me. Well, congratulations, truly. What a ride. I'm really happy you're sitting where you're at with four children that look to you. It's great. Sandy's a big fan. Can I bring her in? Yes, please.

Of course, we must meet Sandy. What a wonderful story we just heard. I wasn't expecting to hear a love story on this prompt. You know, crazier things have happened in an AA meeting. It's so cool to see you guys. Yes, you too. Did he tell you he fell in love first? Did that piece come up?

She thinks I fell in love with her the second I saw her. Oh, that did not come up. David loves to tell the story that we had this moment and we were both like, why aren't we together? That's not how I remember it. Oh, God. My wife and I have a few of those too. We need to do a prompt where spouses

of other caller-inners call in to give another version of their story. The correct version. I will say, even though I'm convinced he was in love long before I jumped on board, there was an actual moment where like a veil pierced for me. And I looked at him and I didn't say anything, but I knew I was going to spend the rest of my life with him and not to sound corny, but I loved him so much as a friend. And all of a sudden I just saw who he was supposed to be. And he was like, why is your energy so different around me all of a sudden? What's happened? And then, uh, yeah, that was right when i took a big shit during our first date yeah that'll do it that always seals it well it's lovely meeting you too i love

this story so nice to meet you thanks for having us all right take care you guys bye oh i like them yeah i want to have dinner with them should we schedule a dinner let's do it let's go there westchester i've ridden a motorcycle through Westchester. You've ridden a motorcycle lots of places. Sasha hated sand. The way it stuck to things for weeks. So when Maddie shared a surf trip on Expedia Trip Planner, he hesitated. Then he added

a hotel with a cliffside pool to the plan. And they both spent the week in the water. You were made to follow your whims. We were made to help find a place on the beach with a pool and a waterfall and a soaking tub and of course a great shower.

Expedia. Made to travel. 11-11. Oh, shit. Make a wish. Your wish came true. We're talking to Denise. Monica, I can see immediately that these are my people.

I can know immediately looking at your face. I appreciate that. I do feel like on a level these are my people. I can know immediately looking at your face. I appreciate that. I do feel like on a level we are very connected. It's definitely the group I'm prone to trust most immediately, which is ironic because we're the least trustworthy people. Absolutely the least. We are the most conning. We lie the most.

Narcissistic, self-absorbed, low self-esteem. Check, check, check. What a cute teddy bear sweater you have on. Is it Ralph Lauren? It is. Monica, I wore it for you. I'm like, this is my most expensive sweater. It's really cute.

Thank you so much. Context clues. You seem to be in a kind of a modern lofty apartment or this could be work though, but I'm inclined to say you're in a city. Where are you? I'm in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. Oh, okay. But I'm in my PhD supervisor's office. And what are you getting your PhD in? And let me first immediately thank you helping to dispel the stereotype about us junkies. I do neuroscience research. Wow. Want to know what topic can you guess? Addiction? Addiction? Exactly.

Yes. I'm going to edit it so that I answered it. Okay, go ahead, Monica. Addiction. Oh, yeah. Wow, I knew it. And did you happen to listen to Gabor Mate, that episode? Yes. And I got my master's from UBC where he went and got his medical degree.

That was like a big reason why I went there because the addiction scene in UBC in Vancouver is one of a kind. Yeah. So I have to admit, I've been to meetings all over the country. This one, I've never been to a Canadian meeting, so I don't really know what the vibe is, if there even is one or if it differs at all. Have you been to meetings in the States? Yes. Actually, this story takes place in the States. Okay, that's shocking. Canadians, I feel like the vibe is very, very similar. At the foundation of it all, we're all the same. I went to one in Bangkok once, which was largely expats at the meeting. But again, I found myself in a very weird building in a very weird alley in Bangkok. And I was like, oh yeah, this is the exact same thing. Yeah, the vibe when you get in there is like, oh, yeah, we're home.

Yeah. Do you mind if we ask how old you are? Do you want to guess? You look so young. I'd say 26. Monica? Uh-oh. Now we're playing Price is Right.

You're going to go under or above. I say 30. I'm 27. Oh. Oh, shit. Do you want to say 26 and then I'll say 30? Yeah. Let's re-edit it.

I think you're 26. No, she's definitely 30. No, I'm 27. Oh my gosh. So for context, this occurred December 2022. So not that long ago. And it was around Christmas time. So my husband's family decided

that we were going to do this big family vacation in Hawaii. Grandparents, nieces, nephews, uncles, aunts, literally every single person. And then within the family, it's like siblings and their significant others. We are en route to Hawaii. We get there and then we find out that about half, if not more of the people who are supposed to be on the trip, all of their flights got canceled. There was a huge snowstorm. It was horrible. You couldn't get anywhere.

And the people who were able to make it were essentially the siblings and their significant others. So it turned out to be this big family reunion to literally the best group of people you can be on a Hawaiian vacation with. I was really great friends with my husband's sister when we were younger. And we would go out to bars and clubs. And she was like a big part of my previous life.

And so I knew going into this trip that I was going to need some support from the community. Not so much when the whole family was going, but now so that just the siblings were going, I'm like, this could turn. Context, I am about one month sober. Oh, my God. Oh, wow.

All right. So literally the worst time is the very, very beginning. And I was in school and me and my husband were long distance because I was in my master's. And so we were coming together. We were going to Hawaii. So a lot of stakes. And I had just started going to meetings. I'd only been to about five to six meetings at this point. My home group was amazing. So when I told them I was going to Hawaii, they're like, you got to go to a

meeting. First of all, Hawaii meetings are literally the best. They are full of international folks and they give out like lays and all these things for like newcomers. Oh, I love it. I was very excited. I'm like, okay, great. I'll go to a meeting every day while I'm there. It'll all be good. So it's like Christmas Eve and it's the first meeting that I'm going to in Hawaii.

And I go to like the earliest one they have, which is 6.30 in the morning, because I didn't want anyone else to know that I was going to the meeting. At this point within my meetings that I had been going to, I had only spoke up in a couple of meetings. And my interim sponsor was like, you should really start trying to engage more and like start telling your story. And I had been quite nervous to do so. I just didn't feel ready yet, but something in this like sunrise-y morning made me feel like I was ready. I'm going to tell the world my story. I get to this meeting immediately. I'm running a little bit late, so they're just getting started. I look and everyone's about 40, 50, 60 years old. And I am by far the youngest. I just turned 26. All of a sudden I look around

the room, there's like balloons everywhere. And I'm like, okay, cool. Kind of a Christmas celebration maybe. So they start the meeting. They ask if any international people or out of towners are there. I'm like, hi, Denise, alcoholic. I'm from Ottawa, Canada. And they're like, oh my gosh, a Canadian. And we're so hyped. And I'm like, I'm feeling very welcomed here. I'm easing into this. And they're like, so today's a special meeting.

We're going to be celebrating all the birthdays in December in this one meeting. And I'm thinking, so inclusive. Like everyone's celebrating. It's so fun. They go around the room. They say, okay, if you had a birthday in December, stand up. We'll go around. We'll talk about your birthday. So a bunch of people stand up and I stand up. Oh, my birthday, uh, date of birth is December 13th. Oh my God. I don't know why I didn't see that coming. So I stand up. see that coming so i stand up i'm feeling confident like i've already said my name out loud like i'm here no one knows who i am so i'm gonna like let her rip i'm still thinking we're all december

babies sure so they like kind of call on the first guy and he's like today is 45 years i'm feeling really grateful for this birthday to celebrate with all of you. I've been at this place for all of my birthdays. And I'm like, what do you mean? You look 70, but you're only 45. I'm confused. Exactly. It's not adding up. And then like some people, while they're saying 45, they're also giving their very specific date. So like, this isn't going to add up to a year, but 1,758 days. And I'm like, what? Math? Like, I'm like, oh, maybe they're saying their sobriety date. So when it comes to me, I'm like, Denise, December 13th. So I've been sober for like 30 days, 31 days, one month. And all of a sudden, everyone kind of like is like, what?

This is stressing me out. We don't get balloons for one month. You get a key chain. The mood, the vibe changes immediately. And then I can feel people be like, oh, she doesn't know what she's doing. But you had 30 days. I would have relapsed after this. You would have gone straight to the bar. Yeah.

So immediately after that, everyone kind of gave me pity. Like, yay, good job. Yeah, good. And then they're like, do you want to talk today? Little girl. At that point, it had clued in. I was like, okay, this is not date of birth. This is for sure sobriety birthdays.

I had no idea what that even was. I started bawling my eyes out. I'm like crying. This is for sure sobriety birthdays. I had no idea what that even was. I started bawling my eyes out. I'm like crying. This is so stressful. I am so sorry I even took any time away from these people who have been doing years of sobriety. I have no idea what I'm doing. I felt so confident that I was standing up and like being a part of the birthday group. They should not have told you.

They should have just pretended. I'm mad at all these other addicts. But they got to prevent her from repeating this mistake, I guess. Oh, God. She's doing it again. Yeah. And like I felt genuinely, A, primarily embarrassed. That was the worst moment of my life to see all these old people be like, what the fuck

is wrong with her? And then the second was like, I felt bad because I felt like I was taking space and time from people because they like calculate it based on how many people are standing up. You get about 10 minutes, you get about 20 minutes. And so I felt like I had robbed some time. So I'm crying, crying, crying. And these older ladies like come up to me and they start hugging me and they're like, it's okay. This is a reminder of like where we all started. And you being here reminds us that it's not easy when you start. There's all these rules. You don't know what's going to happen. And you just kind of have to put yourself up there and hope you're doing the right thing. This is like the most ever-present theme that the people going through it can't recognize.

But the gift of a relapsing, like people will relapse. They come in. They feel terrible. They feel terrible that the people believed in them and rooted for them. And they're there to say they failed. And then they totally discount how enormously helpful that reminder is to everybody. Because time goes on and the stories get funny and you forget how raw and fragile you are. And to see it up close is like the greatest gift you can give a group of people.

And to, yeah, have no fucking clue what you're doing at the meeting and flailing. It's like, oh, yeah, I remember before I had this figured out. It's like, oh yeah, I remember before I had this figured out. It's like a gift. Yeah. Honestly, I was so embarrassed. I could not go back. Even when I got home, I was like, I can't tell anyone. This is the first time I've even said this. It's not even bad. It's not. It's very sweet and endearing. So after they were giving me hugs and like telling me this was a reminder of the beginning, they also gave me seven lays. Like people just kept laying them on me. And then they gave me, cause they obviously had birthday cake. So I had a little cupcake, but I was like refusing to eat it because I felt like I did not deserve it. And they were all just being so sweet

to me. And then they gave me my one month chip, which I have here. And then I was like, sadly, eating my cupcake, walking home, crying. And all of the people from the meeting were driving past me. Some of them would honk. Oh, walking home. And I'm like, they're like, bye. Aloha. Oh, wow. Oh, I love that. It's such a sweet and innocent story. This is shocking. The second sweet and innocent story. I figured you'd get like a lot more of like, this guy brought a gun in. Yeah, stabbings.

These are very wholesome. Yeah, and I guess that's probably preferred for people who are evaluating whether or not to go. We've all spent our time introspectively looking at ourselves. So maybe we're all like, this was something that we could all learn from. Well, by the way, yes, at the core of that embarrassment is the reason you drank if you drill far enough down. That's what I'm saying. The fact that you wouldn't be worthy of the compassion, you wouldn't be worthy of the love or the cupcake or the time, all of it. Exactly. Oh, Denise, that was so sweet.

This made my year. Also, my supervisor, she's here. She's a big fan. Can she say hello? Hello, supervisor. I snuck in. You don't look supervisory. You look kind of young and hip.

Stop. You're making me blush. Are you an instructor, a professor? I'm a professor. I'm also an associate dean. Wow. I got titles and stuff. Oh, my God.

Accolades and plaques. Very unifiably. Yeah. I love your shows. Oh, thank you. And you're actually in a frigging armchair. That's right. It's no bullshit.

I'm going to give you 10 E's. Okay. Take care. What a smoke show of a professor. 10 out of 10. And she's got like all these shoes. She's like, you can be smart. You can look good.

And you can be a female and be like absolute powerhouse. Oh, love it. Well, Tenise, so nice meeting you. And thanks for that very heartwarming and adorable story. I'm so happy. I got to talk to you guys. I love you a lot. Thank you for everything. Okay. Take care. Oh my God. Does this make you want to go to a meeting?

Uh, yeah. I mean, that's a weird question. It is a weird question, but does it sound fun? They sound fun. Jenna, Jenna or Jenna. We'll find out. Hello. Hello, can you hear us? Yeah, I can hear you. Can you guys hear me? We can. Uh-oh. Is it Genna or Jenna? Jenna.

Uh-oh, what are you going to say? Look. I know. What? We have a pattern going. Short sleeves, colorful tattoos hanging out, which feels very par for the course. No color here. Color once.

I had it blacked out. It was misadvertising? Yeah, it was my first tattoo. I may or may not have been intoxicated. And I walk into the parlor and I'm like, I want this in red and yellow. Worst decision. Why? Because it looked like my McDonald's? It was just muddy. Probably not the best tattoo shop in the world. Oh, no, not at all. Let's just say now I do my research.

Okay. Was it on a boardwalk on the beach? It was in Pacific Beach along the... Oh, so is it Jenna or Yana? Jenna. She already said that. I'm sorry. I got distracted by the tattoos.

Such a crazy question. Whose name is Jenna? No, I was making a joke. Rob said that as a stupid joke, and then Dax got scared. Well, it's a G, y'all, and I am not a good reader. I get Gina a lot, but it's Jenna. Jenna with a G. Okay. Where are you at in the country?

Near Los Angeles. I'm in Orange County. Oh, okay, great. And does this story take place in a Southern California meeting? Yes, it takes place in Orange County. However, it didn't take place at an AA meeting, but it is AA meeting adjacent. Okay, great. And what year was this?

This was 2019. I want to say the beginning of 2019. That may or may not play a role because the rooms are packed in January. Oh. Kind of like a gym. Yeah. I tend to get sober around the holidays. So my sobriety date this time around was December 5th, 2018.

I'd argue that's a hard time because you're entering Christmas. Yeah, holidays are coming up. To be honest, I wasn't really thinking about holidays. I just woke up somewhere and I was like, oh. Yeah, yeah. Here we are. A little lost in the calendar. All right, well, hit us with this story.

Yeah, tell us. Okay, so I was a baby alcoholic, newly sober, and I was living in a sober living. I was a baby alcoholic, newly sober, and I was living in a sober living. And for people who don't know, a sober living is basically just like a regular home in a cul-de-sac surrounded by other regular homes with families inside. And there's just a bunch of alcoholics early in sobriety living there. And they'll drug test you. They'll breathalyze you. Who's monitoring?

Are there like den mothers? Yeah. So we call them house managers. It's like a conglomerate. They're owned by other people or they're connected to a treatment center, but they're like notorious for shady behavior and people relapsing. I was just going to say, as someone who's been in the rooms for 20 years and wants everyone to get help, the last thing I'd want to live by is a fucking halfway house.

I mean, cigarette butts fucking everywhere. Two dudes having it out in the driveway. Yeah. And this story will go along those lines as well, I would say. So we're in sober living and I was in a downstairs room and the rest of the girls were upstairs. And so my house manager comes up to me and she says, Jenna, you're going to be getting a new roommate soon, but she has to be downstairs because she's injured and she can't walk up the stairs.

So I'm like, okay, I wonder, you know, what's going on here. So a couple of days later, this girl moves in and you can tell that she was just like fresh off the operating table. I mean, like her legs just covered in bandages, open wound. She had a skin graft on her leg and we're like, what the heck happened? Like she was laid out. So as it turns out, she was living at a sister sober living a couple of streets down and she relapsed in the middle of the night. And the other girls who lived there, they had to go to work in the morning. She's banging around in the bathroom and the girls are like, hey, be quiet or just leave the house. And so this poor girl walks out of the house and she sits down in the neighbor's driveway and she proceeds to overdose

in the neighbor's driveway. We don't know how long she was laying there for, but what's going to stumble upon a half dead girl in the middle of the night other than a coyote? So this coyote walks up, starts chomping on her leg. I mean like full on late time midnight snack on this girl's leg. And she's just out of it. She is passed out. Oh, this is like a horror movie. Yeah, this is awful. The doctors actually think that the coyote saved her life because her body was dumping so much adrenaline as it was being eaten that it was enough to mitigate whatever was happening

because of the overdose. You're never going to bump into another person on planet Earth that says, my life was saved by being eaten alive by a coyote. Also, I thought coyotes didn't eat people. I think if they're alert, they won't do anything. They're afraid. But if they're completely unconscious, I bet they just keep getting closer and closer until they're right up next to it. Then they sniff around and they take a little nibble.

They jump back and there's no movement. Fuck it. Here we go. Yeah. Especially because she was like warm. She was just ripe for the picket. Tasty. Yeah. What would have been another interesting element is if the coyote got enough of the opiate blood in its mouth that it passed up next to it. I don't think it was found next to her, but that coyote got a free pass for sure.

A freebie. So anyway, the neighbors find her in a pool of her own blood the next morning. They call the police. And that's how she ended up as my roommate. And you think it's enough for us to say like, okay, something needs to change. But I knew that nothing was probably going to change with her. And I remember it so vividly. It was so baffling. She was sitting on the couch in her sober living. She had her leg propped up, like still completely laid out. And she's like, I wonder when I can get back on Tinder. And I'm like, oh, she's not going to make it. You know, because logically in that situation, you'd be thinking, I wonder when I can get back to an AA meeting.

But no, money and relationships takes us out. Yeah, anything that'll distract us from the feelings we have that we don't want. We still tell her story at meetings sometimes, and we just refer to her as coyote girl. Coyote girl. Yeah, I think for people on the outside, it looks absurd, and it is objectively absurd. I would hope the compassion lies in the notion that,

yes, that girl was in so much pain, unmedicated, undistracted, that getting eaten by a coyote is less painful. That whatever thing you have to go through to get the medicine ultimately is worth it. That's a very, very, very sad and demoralizing existence. Definitely. It's crazy because I don't know why I got sober this time. I think the stars just kind of aligned and it was in that window of willingness that we have to like hear something. I grasped onto it and I couldn't see a life with it, couldn't see a life without it. And here we

are, you know. It also kind of dispels the notion of like a bottom. Getting eaten by a coyote isn't a bottom, which is not to say this gal either didn't get sober or won't get sober. And it might be something so much more trivial that happens. Exactly. Sometimes it's more of a spiritual, there's nothing left for me. And I think that's what's so amazing about AA because I still work a strong program. You know, they say, come to AA, you'll get sober, you'll get sober. And that's all grand and everything.

But I think the miracle for me was that I woke up one morning, like six months in, I didn't want to die. That was what I needed. I need more than sobriety. And AA gave me more than just sobriety, gave me a life and relief, which is what I was looking for all along

before drugs and alcohol. Yeah, you think you go there to quit a substance and you do, but really you stay to learn how to live and to learn how to be honest with yourself and to learn how to have hope and joy and all those things return. I'm so happy for you. Oh, thank you. And what a bonkers story. Now, this one went where I expected all of them to go. I hope she's okay. Has anyone ever heard from her again? Crazily enough, she crashed a car a couple of months later. But other than that, I haven't heard anything.

Maybe she'll have to get eaten by a mountain lion for it to be a real bottom. Well, Jenna, it's great meeting you. Thank you so much for telling us. Yeah, it was great to meet you guys, too. Thanks for listening. All right. Be well. You, too.

Bye. Wow, man. Eaten by a coyote while you guys, too. Thanks for listening. All right. Be well. You, too. Bye. Wow, man. Eaten by a coyote while you're ODing. Fuck. Whoa. Really, really sad. Yeah, just what could be more heartbreaking for parents to think of your daughter? This was great, and these were very mellow, but it's triggering.

Tell me. It's triggering hearing. The depths? Yeah, and just you can't control. Triggering. Tell me. It's triggering hearing. The depths. Yeah. And just you can't control. Like these are people in our lives that we love and this is what's happening and there's nothing you can do. It's very stressful. Yeah, I bet. This was a good prompt.

I hope it. I mean, I don't know what I hope, I guess, but it was just a good prompt. Well, I hope people know that they may meet their spouse there. Yeah. They may have a roommate that was eaten by a coyote. If you do go, know that the birthdays are sobriety birthdays. Also feel free to mess it up because we all love it and we'll hug you even tighter. All right. Well, love you. Love you. Do you want to sing a tune or something? We don't have a theme song. Oh. Okay, great. We don't have a theme song for this new show, so here I go, go, go. We're going to ask some random questions, and with the help of our cherries, we'll get some suggestions.

On the fly, I rhyme dish. On the fly, I rhyme dish. Enjoy.