Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Chace Crawford

Episode Date: May 11, 2026

Chace Crawford (The Boys, Gossip Girl, and The Covenant) is an actor. Chace joins Armchair Expert to discuss growing up between Texas, Oklahoma, and Minnesota, being a people pleasing chameleon from having to always make new friends, and leaving Texas for College in California. Chace and Dax talk about crashing a car while valeting in Malibu, narrowly missing Friday Night Lights, and achieving overnight success on Gossip Girl. Chace explains how fame can either make you self-centered or paranoid, how alcohol can make celebrity feel easier for all the wrong reasons, and why chasing the next wave of validation is always a trap.Sign up now in the app or at grubhub.com/plus/golddays to unlock exclusive Gold Days deals.Check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds: https://www.allstate.com/See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert. I'm Dax Shepherd. I'm joined by Lily Padman. We have a very gorgeous man today. Ooh, he is attractive. Makes my eyes feel good. You think you had your stye during this? And maybe he healed your stye.

I think he did. I'm going to give him that credit. Chase Crawford. Chase Crawford is an actor, gossip girl, the boys. The boys, I love the boys. The Covenant, inheritance. This pains me to say out loud, but it is the final season of the boys. New episodes Wednesdays on Prime Video.

One of the greatest shows ever made. Pretty much the coolest people I know watch the boys. It's such a good show. Everyone should be watching it. And if you haven't started, what a joy. You have so much to catch up on. Please enjoy, not just good looking. Such a good hang.

So friendly. Chase Crawford. Enjoy. We are supported by Airbnb. If you've ever traveled to kids or with extended family, you know how much difference, a little extra space can make. Make everyone's on different schedules. You want room to actually relax without disrupting anyone.

That's where Airbnb really makes a difference, giving you the space you actually need. Having separate bedrooms, a real kitchen, a common area where everyone can spread out. It just takes the pressure off. We were up in Toronto and we opted for an Airbnb over a hotel. What I love about is everyone can be on their own sleeping schedule. That is nice. Yeah, you're not required to wake up when the earliest riser gets up. Not for me. I always start by checking out. guest favorites. They're the most loved homes on the platform, consistently highly rated by guests. Some trips really do feel better when you have the right space. It's a perfect setup. It's transitioned to the garage, huh?

Yeah, so we did record upstairs when we were audio only. Directly above us, there's a little attic. Everything's video, though, now, too, isn't it? It's awesome. hated the idea, but they forced us as part of our new Wondery deal. Well, it's probably the smartest thing. I mean, these are the talk shows. She's like the real deal. Hi, Mike. How are you? So you work with Caroline. I do. You guys just told me to tell you hi. She's the best. Yeah. She said, you're having my favorite person. Oh my god, I got that call too.

Who's Caroline? Do you know Caroline in the city? DeJon. Dijon. Stylist. Stylist to the stars. Incredible lady. And she's just like the coolest person in general. Does you guys hang out after hours and I invited myself? You should come. We'll go to like Asquela to Caria on like a Friday. Yeah, Margaritas. What's his G.

Takaria? You never been to Eskuela? No. It's great. Well, it used to be kind of the secret. No one knew the tacos in L.A. They do like a fried OG hard shell taco. That's my jam is hard shell.

Yeah, me too. And it's awesome. Have you ever tried Baja California in a dumpy, fucking shitty little. Oh, I know what that is. Yeah. Right next the subway at Franklin and Hillhurst. Okay. I have not.

The best hard shell. I've ever had. Okay. That's a big claim. That is a really big claim. That's 100% I've got. I might go after this to try him. I'll give you testimony.

Do you know Ryan Hanson that actor? Yeah, I do actually. Okay, great. So Ryan and his wife were over last week to watch the Piki Blinders movie. Oh, amazing. And I went up there and I got six hard shell tacos for all of us. So 24 hard shell tacos. Oh, my God.

And Ryan and Amy were like, this is bonkers. What's going on? Yeah. And Chase, they all were eaten. And the whole time we were watching Pinky Blinders, many of us were like, Fuck I go for more, though, those tacos. Like, I don't know how many would take to get my fill of those. They're addicting.

I pray you try and then the next time I run into you, you go, my God, you're right. I'm 100% of a trial. Yeah, yeah. After this, let's go grab some. Dude, I'm down. Yeah, yeah, Maru and go get it on. Okay, so back to your thing. Sorry, I hijacked with my heart.

No, we just have a really lovely fun in common. So similarly, I got a text last night from Jamie Feld. Oh, you know Jamie? Yes, I know. She's not my agent or anything. Okay. I'm friends with her and Zegers. Amazing.

Yes, Kevin's great. And she texts me and said, you're talking to my favorite person. Oh, you're two. Jamie is the best. I've been with her for like 20 years. She was kind of with Cuvain. And then obviously now she's the head of everything over there.

Yeah. Yeah, she's awesome. But that's pretty incredible. I don't know if I've ever arrived. Well, I know I've never arrived anywhere. And two different people had gave testimonials about me. That's good. It makes you feel good.

Yeah. So I got to text from her. I'm like, yes, Jamie's texting. But Kev's great. I've known Kevin for years. You guys did a movie together. He was on Gossip Girl years and years ago. Oh, yeah.

Like in 20. I don't even know when. Oh, yeah, he was like a bad guy. Is he a bad? He's on there for like a fall. It's like six or eight months. You know, back when shows were like 26. I know you guys did so much.

And he's so good looking. Was he playing a boy toy? Yeah, yeah. He was a suave. We were almost riding that same pocket like head to head. Did you guys go out on the town at all? We did actually. That's back when he really would lose themselves.

I don't know if we're recording or not. We always aren't recording. Yeah. I don't mean to blow him up. We cut out anything. Oh, no, no, no. We are super best friends. Okay.

So I'll be the judge. So I know his story. He's very honestly sober. I mean, he's very open about being sober. Yeah. So I didn't know that. And I was decidedly not during those years. And we would go out.

And we were friends already. Always got along. But we'd go out, you know, blow it up too much. But we'd go out in the town and New York. I mean, we had Keith's the city. And I knew he didn't know anyone else in the cast. And I was always looking for a running mate. Yeah, exactly.

Like a homeboy I knew from L.A., though, too, actor. and so we went out. And yeah, I think that was the last run that he had. Uh-huh. Did he pee his pants at any point? That'd be probably on the mild end. Not that I know, not that I know of. But I will say we had an absolute blast.

As you should, I think as many of us feel in this fellowship of sobriety, no regrets. Super glad I had all those blowout nights. I mean, I wouldn't have wanted to be on planet Earth on my one trip and not do what I did. Well, because you made it out alive. I made it out alive. But, man, a lot of fun was had until it got dark. I mean, there's good fun to be had out there. New York's a dangerous city.

New York's a dangerous thing, man. It got dark for me too. They got to be a little too much, you know? It's like that thing where it's New York. Yeah, what do you diagnose the problem is? Because for me, it's a very specific thing. Like, why is it dangerous in New York? Now I have that romanticized relationship with the city, like, when I go back, that feeling

that buzz. I don't know if I'd be able to live there again and function. Because you're out, if the weather's nice, there's always people on the patio. There's always something going on. There's always like an event. It really never shuts down. Yeah. And no cars.

And no cars. No cars makes a huge. huge difference. You're just walking around. You're fine. You're like, let's grab a wine. It's a Tuesday. It's not irresponsible because you're not driving and hurting anyone.

I will say everyone wants to visit you. So it's like there's always someone in town. You're showing the town to. Yeah, there or a reason to go out. I'm more reclusive now. I like to just be a homebody and get groceries in the car. New York's not really conducive to that. Yeah, you have a dog, right?

A dog, the whole thing. Yeah. I was spared by having never worked there while I was an addict, but I would go there to promote. Yeah, my answer was like, Bart is it shut down to four? Yeah, that's another problem. I mean, forget it.

An after party is standard. Every night of the week, someone's hosting an after party. If you're out from 1 a.m., if you're going to stay up until 2, it's not closing, you know, you're most likely going to keep it going. But, yeah. Gossip Girl, we just had Jenny Garthon from 902 and O original. I saw that. Yeah, amazing.

And Gossip Girl was kind of the My Jen's 90210. So I cannot imagine being in New York and, like, seeing you guys out there. I don't want to be freaking out. You guys were all hot. Yeah, my God. If you would have given me my first dose of fame in New York City at 22, you were 22 years old. On the hottest show. And I'm making thousands of weeks.

I mean, forget it. We're not sure I'd be here. You wouldn't. Yeah. Looking back on it, it affects everyone differently those first two years of fame. Most people turn into an asshole in some way or they just get paranoid and reclusive. You went the paranoid route. I read the interview magazine interview with you and Magnus.

Oh, nice. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

That was a sweet, sweet interview. Okay, but you were born in Lubbock. You moved to Minnesota for four years. Yeah. And then mom was a teacher. What kind of teacher? She kind of taught everything. She got a master's in education, but she was mainly English.

But she would, like, substitute us in kindergarten and throughout high school, actually. And she was kind of like the cool substitute teacher. Like everyone wanted Mrs. Crawford. No, no, no, no, no, no. First of all, there's no such thing as a cool substitute teacher. So you're already lying. She was a weird. She brought everyone candy.

Your mom is hot, though. I saw a picture of her. She is. Your mom's super hot. She had you. She was 20? I used to get it all the time in high school, man. I bet.

I learned she was 20 when she, or 21 when she had you? Exactly. They had me young. Yeah, she was like 20. And dad's a dermatologist, so his skin is fucking gorgeous. It's glowing. Hers too, yeah. I like these genetics.

You're not new and terrible on the skin. Yeah. Yeah. My dad, he doesn't give me any tips. It's just all genetics. Before we proceed, I don't know why I didn't detect when watching The Boys, which I'm an enormous fan of. Love it.

Your voice is incredible. Oh, thank you. If you always connected, I mean, you could definitely, it would be a downgrade, but you could be on the radio or have a podcast. Oh. It's such a soothing, it's got a good timber. Thank you. I went to college to do broadcast journalism or to maybe do, because people used to say that,

oh, you got a great voice that you should get into like TV. And I really fast learned that I was not good at that. Like, you didn't want to do broadcast journalism in sports, even though I love sports, but thank you. Ironic, though, because Candace, is that your sister? She is. She's a sports journalist. Yeah, that's how she met her husband? Okay, so back to how old were you when you left?

Lubbock and went to Minnesota. We were in love for like a year. And then my dad's side of the family is from Oklahoma. So Oklahoma City for like four years where he did med school at OU. So boomer sooner. We're all Oklahoma sooner fans. This is college. And his family was there.

We moved to Minnesota. I was about five to 10 years old. So he did a residency program. They were young, like 21, 22. I can't imagine having like two kids and not a lot of money before he became a doctor. and trying to get through med school and then going up to Minnesota. So those were some of the best times. You must have a little bit of mixed culture between southern and Minnesota because those are pretty

formative years. What was the vibe in elementary in Minnesota? I remember getting to Minnesota and being in school and having like a small identity crisis because I felt like I'm a Texas kid and that's all you know. Did you have cowboy boots and shit? I was a cowboy football fan. When I was young, yeah. I was Oklahoma little cowboy boots and the hats, the whole thing.

Every little boy in Texas I see has got cowboy boots. Right. And you just identify with that, even Oklahoma. And I remember being in Minnesota and being like, what do I say? Who do I say I am? I'm from Minnesota. I'm from the South. I definitely had a little twang, you know, growing up. And then I sort of started to have the Minnesota accents. My grandparents were not like that, you know, saying like Soda Pop. It kind of melded the accent when I got back to Dallas after that. And what kind of boy were you? You seem like you would have gotten along with everyone. Yeah. I'm a bit of a bit of. of a people please are. I have to do a lot of therapy. Yeah, that's like my thing. Boundaries are hard for you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that was kind of part of it, having to move to Oklahoma and the Minnesota and back and always make it like a new group of friends was sort of how I learned to survive. So you get to Plano for what, junior high or middle school? Middle school, yeah, fifth grade. And how did that go, that transition now from Minnesota to Plano?

I remember that as like a weird time. I had two best friends in Minnesota, like the bikes in the summer, the whole thing, like great, really great friends. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And Lake Life in Texas, that's really all there was. That's what we did. But that was it with those two friends.

And losing them, that was the first kind of real loss. And I remember being depressed when I was 10, moving back to Plano to Dallas, and then having this daunting task of meeting new people and creating new relationships again. And now you're a Vikings fan. We did that Metro Dome back of that. It's not there anymore.

Is your sister younger or older? She is younger by 17 months. So we're pretty, pretty close in age. Okay. Irish Twins, they say. And this may shock you, but she's also shockingly attractive. So the whole family, the whole families were just. She was Miss.

I'm going to butcher it. She was Miss Texas. I think she'll ever miss. I'm going to consult this. I hate consulting it, but I will. She's way older than me in maturity level. Miss Missouri. What am I talking about?

She went to school at Missou. She was Miss Missouri. Anna contestant and Miss America. Yeah. Now, did you grow up with everyone doing what we just did, which is, my God, your family is so beautiful and so perfect. It was more like your mom's hot. Okay.

And your dad's handsome. Yeah. Although your buddies probably weren't. Comment on that? Fuck, man. Your dad is handsome. Yeah. Yeah.

I would have appreciated his skin and his stature. Okay, back to mom being a cool substitute. Boy, these substitutes, God bless them, man. They come in and you meet, you're like, oh, great, we get to fuck off today and be assholes. Completely. That's the first thing you think. Yeah.

If my mom walked in the classroom, I'd be like, guys, we're not allowed to do the thing where we're assholes today. Be nice to my mom. Yeah, I would have felt embarrassed and then Mia would have felt protective. This had to be tough. She would just let everyone screw off. That's why it was good. She would just like, it would be a fun day. She knew how to get everyone around to doing what they were supposed to do, but it was started off with games and candy.

And everyone loved Mrs. Crawford. Yeah, she was like the cool mom as well. So you weren't embarrassed that mom was there because it doesn't really matter how cool mom. mom is. She's just kind of embarrassing, right, when you're a little true? Well, not if you have Ms. Crawford, I guess. Ms. Crawford was great. Fast forward to high school a little bit, but she would, let's have the party at our house. She wasn't like the removed, like do whatever you want, but she kind of wanted over at the house and that was fun and people liked it and she was the cool mom. Were you overly protective of little sister or do you stay out of her business? Were you

monitoring what was going on? No, me and my sister was more like embarrassed of me. I think me and my sister were so different. By high school, she was on honor counsel. She was like a straight A student. She was president of the whatever. And I was starting to cut up a little bit. I was a very good student. I did very well in school until about middle of high school. And I just collapsed. I had the same trajectory. Yeah. It was a weird thing. I think it was an early rejection from a girl. Like in eighth grade, maybe freshman year, like 13, like the worst time. It's all hilarious in hindsight. But you feel that thing. And then I was doing school. It was a rigorous school. And I was getting really good. grades. Trinity Christian Academy. Yeah, it was kind of a strict school, like small private

school. I was just kind of doing everything to please my parents in a way. That just ran out. I just couldn't do that anymore. I just wanted to have fun. Do you play any sports? I play golf and football. Yeah, I got to a point, I was on this math trajectory. I had been on the math team in junior high, and then I started the whole pre-calc thing. And I just had this moment where I was like, well, I'm not ever going to be a physicist or an engineer. There's no application for this in my life. Why on earth am I learning this. And then unfortunately, I just started applying that so nearly every subject. I'm like, I'm not going to be a history teacher, right? I was like, I'm going to live in my car like Jack Kerouac. Yeah, yeah. I don't really need any of this. What am I doing? Did you have a game plan of what you thought you were going to do? It was all to get into a good school, all this nervous energy just trying to get into a good college. Everyone was just really stressed about getting into good school. Otherwise, your life was a failure, you know? Yeah, yeah. So it was kind of like that hamster wheel of that. Like you never thought about what's feasible in life to go do, like you said calculus. You know, I'm not going to be an engineer or computer scientist. And that mindset, it's like, if you don't get into a good school, you're going to jail.

It's like those are the two trajectories in life. The stakes were so crazy. Yeah, you don't have a complete frontal lobe. So literally, you probably can't think about what you're going to be doing in 10 years. So it's like, oh, the next run is college. And it better be a good one because I'm supposed to go to a good one. And then you burn out. It was definite burnout.

Why do you think you choose Pepperdine? To get out of Texas. It was either SMU or Texas. There was a few other schools in there. but SMU is Southern Methodist, 20 minutes from my house. You know, I was like, I don't want to be 20 minutes from mom and dad. Your mom might sub one of these classes in college. Should be terrible.

You know, and never hear the end of it after that. You were like, they're not supposed to be candy in college. Like, where's a beer? But you don't think there's any back of your subconscious that was like, we belong in California. I was drawn to it. I forget what trip I took out here at a deep, weird level. It just felt like I've always been attracted.

It's getting out of the bubble and meeting new people in different walks of life in different stages, which is one of my favorite things about acting is you always are meeting kind of like weird, interesting people, even if you don't get along. Yeah, who have left their hometown. Yeah, exactly. I always thought I would go back to Texas or I assumed. And I just wanted to, if I could get into Pepperdine, I would get out of Texas for four years. That was it.

Okay. So you only did a few semesters there, right? Yeah. And for people who've never seen Pepperdine, it's almost impossible. You're on the PCH and you're in the highest. valued real estate in the world. And you look to your right. And there are 12 flat acres of grass. Oh, it's not flat, but it's on a hill, but just beautiful grass in this picturesque college. And you think, who could go here? On the way to Malibu. In Malibu, right? Yeah. Yeah. You put a golf course on the

land. I don't know what they. Yeah, they bought in the 70s for probably a steel. It's a small school, relatively. It's tough to make it to class. Yeah. So what happens when you land there and like the oceans across the street? You go to the beach every day. I met some really great friends in college, three dudes from Texas, from Austin, and somewhere else randomly. But we got along. And then that was a whole realization for me. You can grow and kind of grow out of what you were to people from like fifth grade to high school. New identity time.

Yeah, yeah. It was kind of like a validating thing. I can go make new friends in this new big school and being in that next stage of life. And I got there and I'm like, oh, shit, I don't know what I want to do again. I don't know what I want to do long term with my life. It's occurring to you. You don't want to be a journalist. Yeah, yeah.

I was taking a communications course. I love it. It's great, but I'm not going to be. So how do we decide we're going to drop out and pursue acting? I was really naive. It was the one time in my life, my parents were kind of like, hey, you graduate at high school a little bit early. Just take a year off.

And I was like, really? Is that on the table? Which was a nice thing. And so I took a year off. I was like valling cars out there at Malibu at Jaffreys. Oh, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Very short valet, right?

It's like right there. I lied. I said I could drive stick. Did not know how to drive stick. Oh, that's stress. So you burnt up some clutches. Oh, totally. There's Ferrari's coming through.

You've had one of the jobs. It's shocking to me I never had. I can't believe I was never available. Yeah, you were amazed. I'm obsessed with cars. Yeah, yeah. And I love driving cars. And I love tips.

The tip thing was real. It's like a high. Yeah. And you get to woo a new person every five minutes. You get to like be charming every five minutes to a stranger. Yeah. Did you love it? Was it as good as I fantasize about?

I loved it, actually. It was a weird little fraternity. There were like eight dudes. There was a hierarchy. Some guy was like 45 and total Venice, like long hair stoner with like dog in the truck. And he was kind of like the head guy. And then it was a tough job to get, I guess. I got like the low rung.

And I was like the runner. I was running across PCH like Frogger. You would have to floor the cars down PCH and they're ripping. Yeah, yeah. You turn and rip it back up, park on the opposite side and then run back and forth. And you're straddling to me. It was awesome. I loved it, though.

It was great, but it was insane. Again, more geography lessons. V-C-H is the most dangerous road in California. It has the most deaths per square mile. It's a circus. Yeah. People are doing U-turns and go to the beach. I mean, it's a mess.

Yeah, it was bad. How many accidents do we think happen? Hourly? No, no, valets. Oh, I think they're pretty good, man. I had an accident, yeah. You did? What happened?

Well, I did. So I didn't actually, it wasn't like a full wreck, but it was always such a rush. You would leave cars and pull them out, I just jumped out of one one time and left the door open and it was in neutral. I heard it before I saw it. It is slowly rolled back cut speed in the door. Tommy boy style hyper-expended.

I was like, oh shit, like slow motion. What did you do? What did you? I just closed it and let the guy figure it out. I know you just got to pretend like nothing. Do you remember what kind of car was? My saving grace was like, I hop back in and I'm like, yes, it's a rental car. Oh.

What a blessing. It was a blessing because, you know, all these things have their own insurance or whatever. So I went right away, told the main real guy that ran the restaurant. Told him to put his joint down for a second. I guess something's going to harsh your high right now. Like, you idiot, go home. We'll deal with this later. But you're lucky it's a rental car.

Do you remember, were you stoked when rad cars pulled up? Did you care? Yeah. I remember being very nervous when it was like a Ferrari and John's like, get that one, you know? And it was like a paddle shifter. I had no idea. I was like. I was like, I don't know how to do it.

I kind of learned, but it was bad. That's not the place to practice. It wasn't a place to practice. But I remember like Orlando Bloom coming in and like tipping me money. And I was like a good tip and Kate Bosworth. I'm like, oh, this is awesome. Yeah, your stars are here. Yes.

What an exciting L.A. job. It was. What other celebrities you see? That's great. Oh, God, who else? I remember, and I think I've told him this when I saw. I'm like, dude, you know, you gave me a nice tip one time. Thank you.

But I remember like Shug Knight coming through, which was. Weird because he had like punched the valet so everyone was scared of him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Random people. It was like Tommy Lee and Malibu locals out. Who's the old, oh, hell, Joey. What was that actor from 48 hours? Nick Nolte.

Nick Nolty. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you ever see Nick Nolty? Yes, he's a staple in Malibu. Yeah, he is. Do you ever see Robert Downey Jr.? Fuck, okay. No, no, no, keep him coming.

I was pumped though when we see him. Johnny Carson, no. He was on Malibu. He was? Oh, yeah, yeah. Are you religious? Because Pepperdine's religious. You went to a Catholic school.

It was Baptist. But yeah, so my mom's dad was a pastor, a Nazarene pastor, I want to say, and lived in Texas, grew up religious. Okay, yeah. Didn't quite realize how strict Pepperdine was, actually. It's very, isn't it? I don't want to butcher. I think it's Church of Christ, which is very like no instruments and worship.

No fun. No fun. That's where Jedded I went, right? To law school? Yeah, he did. If you had a girl in your. room or vice versa past like 11 or 1130 p.m. something really kind of weird. They give you like a demerit. And there's like three demerits, whatever. I don't know what happens. But the mag light

would come through and I'd be caught. Not in a compromise. It was like you're literally talking. Yeah. In college. Like this isn't high school. So I do remember that. I quickly realized there was like small little fraternities that were just basically friend groups to actually be able to have fun off campus. I didn't know is that direct? Yeah. I didn't either until I showed up. Okay. Was it great money too? I'm sorry. We're going to move off of L.A. soon, but I'm so envious of this role. In fact, that's another job I could do in retirement. You should.

You should do that. That's better than 7-Eleven. It was, I remember feeling so lucky to have the job because a buddy in college, a good friend was older, and he had the job, but he couldn't do it. So he kind of like, hey, I'm giving this to you. It's a tough slot. Everyone wants this thing. Yeah.

He's great. He knew I couldn't really drive stick, but he vouched for me. And it was like I was in this little cool fraternity. And it was summer time there. And you'd have like. like a family meal, free meal, like cash. Can I guess what you were making a shift? Yeah.

I'm going to go with 350. But then tip. I wish I knew. Oh, 350. Yeah. I thought you meant $3. I wish I could remember. I guarantee you it was somewhere around that.

But on a big night, I remember going home with some good tips. It was like a dopamine hit. It was like a slot machine mentality. I get like what's going to happen next. And it was like a lot of fun. And this was 2004 or five? Summer of 2004. So it's cash baby too.

You're walking with hard cash. Yeah. I know. It was great. I was living in Malibu with four other dudes in this house. Kind of a decrepit, like, 70s house. They never been updated. But, like, we had this cool little spot.

They were, like, surfers, and it was a lot of fun. This could be a reality show. The good old day. I know. Now I'm like 40. I'm like, was it going to get any better than that? No, it's right. No.

I'm so jealous of this whole spell of yours. Okay, so how do we get from there to 2006 The Covenant? I got into an acting class. Oh, a Meisner class. Misner class. exactly. I forget the name of it, but it was a more serious class. A friend was doing acting. I had done some acting in high school, and I was always sort of artistically inclined. I did photography. I loved it. I loved it. I loved it. I loved it. I loved it's kind of like, why don't you just get out of your

shell, take an acting class, and I randomly got this very serious Meisner. I knew nothing about it. I just loved it. You did. It was so abstract about coming to the door and the exit. And I like was like, what is this? You didn't feel panic like, I'm out of my depth. I wasn't trying to be an actor. I was so naive. There was no pressure. It was just fun. And these kids were in there really trying. And I was like, okay, I'm going to try and be this good actor within class.

I was ever thinking about really becoming an actor. And did you get an agent from that class? I did. I just kept kind of networking. A friend was like an actress for a manager. I was like, hey, I know this very low, boutique, small agency. It was probably more like a management company is today, just a few people. And I went with them.

This is where people pleasing. Like, people pleasing, it's a bad rap. But this is where it's great, right? Because I wasn't a people pleaser. And consequently, no one wanted to help me because I didn't avail myself at all. Right. I was trying to act like I knew everything and don't help me and I got it figured out. And of course, no one tried to help me because it didn't seem like I was open to that.

I didn't have a fucking agent for like six years and I wanted one. I didn't get a job at a valet. I can see the value. You're nice and there's a great word for it. I mean, no. I mean. Well, I was a bit of a chameleon as well to try and survive as a kid. you learn it was kind of a survival thing to make new friends.

All the different cities. It wasn't like I was completely changing. I had an ability to kind of connect with people from all walks of life. Yeah. And I think it's a great thing. And then so people are like, yeah, I'll vouch for you. That's what's tricky about when people are like, I'm going to stop being this way. And it's like, well, also acknowledge none of it's good or bad.

This characteristics also got me to hear. And so what part do I keep and what part do I get rid of? It's hard to know. Completely. Yeah. And you don't really know that as a kid, even in your 20s. if you haven't really examined it. So when you end up in the covenant,

you're now like, I want to be an actor, clearly. Yeah, so I went with this agent. She was great. She did guys, and it was back when pilot season was a real thing, like happening every fall. And she was like, I'm going to send you out for some auditions, just randomly. And I was getting good feedback.

I was very green, but they're like, oh, he's talented. And you know, work on this. And I was doing auditions. And I was having fun with it. I was like part time in school. I was valling cars, living in this house. And then the covenant came along eventually in 2005. You know, it was a real budget Sony screen gems movie, you know, at the time.

It's wild. So Taylor Kitch was in it. Yeah, Taylor Kitch, Sebastian Stan. Wow. A guy named Toby Hemingway, a British guy who were still friends with. And Stephen Strait was like one of the guys too. Did you and Taylor get on? We did.

Me, Taylor and Sebastian and Toby. They were my first real friends. Yeah, like Taylor would like sleep on my couch back in when he'd come to L.A. And he was kind of new. Okay, so I only know the lore of him because I'm an enormous Friday Night Lights fan. I've never met him and we'll get to that. But the lore is he was a trainer. Yeah. Right. So at that time, was he a trainer and was he already fucking jacked and looking gorgeous? Were you not intrigued? He took going to get into jacking gorgeous. Yeah. That's fine because I specifically

remember going and meeting them for the first time in Montreal at the hotel and we were going to eat dinner. We all got spaghetti or lasagna and all this stuff. He kind of was like looking at us. And he got some chicken and vegetables. And he kind of cut to, he's like absolutely shredded. And like he was a nutritionist. He went to school for two years. He's like, you guys are killing yourselves. He basically, well, he basically like in hindsight, it was funny.

He introduced us to all this stuff of working out and eating right. It kind of gave us a trainer. So that was like the start of falling in love with working out with the guys. Like, it was fun. And looking back, we were like just shoveling bread and pasta. And we had a reason to get in shape. It was a fun boot camp type thing. And everyone's going to be shirtless.

You got to show up? It was hilarious. It was warlocks. So do you love men's bodies too like that? He's obsessed with men's bodies. Yeah, you have a good routine, right? You go to the gym and you do the full thing. Yeah, but also I'm just obsessed with other men's body.

Yeah, more than my own body. I'm much more obsessed with other men. If I were a good painter, I could paint right now perfectly Taylor Kitch's body. Like I know it. Like I know Brad Pittson Fight Club. He showed up. We were like, oh my God. He did nutrition.

He was doing modeling. But he was like really working and he didn't have a place in L.A., but he was full on shredding. and eating right and the whole night. It's funny because I've kind of forgot that was him because the last thing I saw him and I think was the Waco thing. Yeah.

He's not hot in that. Well, he's not ripped in that at all. I don't think. Skinny for that thing. So skinny. So that's kind of my new version. Well, you need to rewatch, half and now.

We just rewatched because of our daughters were finally old enough. And I was like, oh, right, it is the best show ever. It's incredible. And the story there was, we shot the thing, we come back.

He stays at my couch for like a month. And he was like going to screen test for the show. And I had been, auditioning for it. I got a test deal to read for the quarterback for Jason Street. Yeah. I was so excited because I knew he was basically going to be Wiggins. He had to think jumped through one more hope. And I was like, oh, the idea of we'd just become friends. Like he was like my only friend. I was the business. Like yeah, yeah, let's move to Austin and be Texas

football. It's where I'm from, you know. I didn't get it. I remember being bummed for like a month. Yeah, that's a heartbreaker. That's a heartbreaker. I remember that was my first real. Like, that's a role I wanted. And you'd only had good luck thus far. No, you probably put this flat a little bit. Oh, yeah, when I go in, I get these things, and then I make friends and we all work together. We do so easy. We have adventure.

I was like the most rare situation to become friends with those guys, and we're still all friends. Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare. We are supported by Allstate. Checking Allstate First could save you hundreds on car insurance. That's smart. Not checking which platform you watch that new show on. So frustrating. 15 minutes later, you've logged into seven apps, reset two passwords, and still haven't found it. Yeah, checking first is smart.

So check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary, subject to terms, conditions, and availability, Allstate North American Insurance Coe and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. Now, were you able to watch the show and enjoy it or did it fuck you up? Did you have to boycott it because you didn't get it? I've boycotted things. I didn't get it. I remember him being back in L.A.

Maybe this summer he had it on DVD. We don't even have those anymore. He had. He's like, do you want to watch? I was like, yeah, I do. And watching the pilot, it wasn't jealousy. It was FOMO. It was like, oh, I wish death upon everyone.

It was like, oh, I wish I was a part of that. That's amazing. The wheelchair element, though, that's hard. We didn't know. They didn't tell anyone that that was going to be the role. So you may have dodged a board. Did you have any interest? interaction with Pete Berg.

Because I had one meeting with Pete Berg for people who know me. He was an actor forever. And then he directed the movie and then the pilot of that show. And I had a general with him one time. He was like five minutes late and they let me sit in his office before he got in there. And then he walked in and he had tissue crammed in his nose that was just caked with blood. And he goes, oh, sorry, man. I'm late.

I was sparring with so and so. I'm like, this dude's such a raw dog, man. He's walking like, he broke his nose and now he's in this meeting. He was just fighting a man. Seconds before this meeting. He's a wild dude. Yeah, yeah. I was like, I've done to dinner with him with mutual friends since.

Like, he's a great guy. I remember him being in the room and directing the screen test and throwing me curveballs a bit. I was like freaking out. I don't know. How'd be off the script? Yeah. But that was, in hindsight, that was cool. Like, I would appreciate that more now, like the improv nature of that.

He's, okay, you're in an interview. Throw me questions, you know, how would you answer this is the quarterback, which really threw me. It was just probably why I didn't get it. But now I would welcome that. Okay. And then Gussup Girl comes pretty quickly after that, right? So the heartbreak doesn't last terribly long.

What do you think the duration is between screen testing for Friday Night's? Exactly a year. It was the next pilot season. Do you do anything in between there? Covenant came out. I did. It wasn't lifetime. It was a movie.

It was a movie that we shot in Turks and Caicos, which was a lot of fun. But it was very small budget. But my mom loves the movie. I'm blanking on the name of it. Thank God. Don't go watch it. But I remember feeling like that was cool on the name. You know exactly.

You know exactly the name of it. No, you should say the wrong name of the movie. So we go watch it. They changed the name of it. It's called like the sixth son's a domino. Yeah, exactly. It's something ridiculous. I came back and I got with ICM, the new agency, because the Covenant came out.

You got a little heat. It was like, ooh, I'm doing the thing. And then I remember going into their office to see the pilots. And it was these hard scripts and it said gossip girl. I'm like, that's like the stupidest name ever for a show. You know, I was like, they're going to change that name. It sounds a little emasculating. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm going to be on a show called Gossip Girl. That sounds so weird. I didn't realize it was a book franchise and they had had people. that were fans of it. I'm offended you hadn't been reading the Gossip Girl, YA. I didn't. You know, I'm shocked. Yeah, of course I did.

Then that was back when you would have to read for the first couple people, then producers, director, execs, and then you're in like the conference room with like the stadium seating. And for people who don't know, you also at some point in auditioning, they make you negotiate your contract. They don't let you go in and read for network without a contract because they don't want to fall in love with you. And then you have the leverage. It's a leverage thing. By today's standards, we both know, is probably not a lot of money. But at 21 years old, when you negotiated that contract for that last audition,

and you're like, I'm going to make hundreds of thousands of dollars if we do. I mean, what was your brain doing at that moment? Oh, it was such a high. I remember thinking I'd won the lottery. Yes, you did. You're not doing all the math of the percentage that everyone takes and taxes. No, you're getting 100% of that money. Yeah, yeah.

I just think of that number per episode times. How many? I think I just wanted to drive a Ferrari. One certainly in my future. Going back. Yeah, I'm going back to that job. Lo and behold, it's like the lowest possible thing for six years. But, you know, you sign your lifeway for six years, too.

You're not really thinking about that. Hell no. You don't even know if it's going to be successful. So that's like a pipe dream. So one cute thing I learned today is that you and Ed Westwick, you guys immediately start remaining together in Chelsea. Out of the gates. How did you meet him so quick and go, like, let's move in together?

We shot the pilot in April or something in 2007. Three weeks in New York, I'm like, I love New York now. It's incredible. He was young. He was like 18. I remember looking at prices that summer. I guess we got to move there. I'm like, how much is it a month?

I'm like, it's insane. And you just found out you're keeping 40% of what you're made. Yeah, I'm a little more realistic. Yeah. Not one check has come yet. I'm like, maybe I get a roommate. I just text. I like, dude, you want to like live together?

He's like, yeah, sure. Like, whatever, man. Like, just go find it. You know? Tell me what address to show up to. Yeah, I married me and my mom. I went up there. We saw like three places and I was like,

I guess this one will work. Did he live in England at that time? He'd never left his hometown. I don't know if he was outside London. I forget the name of it, but he was like in London area. And he was a mini Pete Dockette, you know, he was like trying to be in a band.

You know, you from Plano, him from England. You guys are in Chelsea? It was wild. Yeah, it was like animal house. How nice or not nice was the apartment? It started out nice. And then it was like, what was funny, It was a, I forget what they call a two-bedroom convertible.

So there was an office. I had had a wall, just of sheetrock built, basically like a closet. And I was like, hey, I'll pay a little bit more a month for the first six months, take the master. You live in the closet. You live in the closet. I found the plate. You proposed a play. I actually did propose it.

And they don't flip. You pay more. And that, of course, never happened. Yeah, never happened. Every six weeks, every hundred. Team of movers are in there. Yeah, yeah. It never, never happened.

And it was decidedly disgusting. but it was so much fun. You have a charmed life on the fun spectrum. Yeah, it was a lot. What did that do to the dynamic of all the people on the show because, for one, it's, you know, teen show, hot show, all eyes. So dramatic. So in real life, you're really good friends with him.

I can only assume you guys are living together. Totally, yeah. But then there's other boys on the show. Did they feel like you were clicking? Yeah. They didn't actually. I had a good relationship with all the main, like, Penn and Blake and Layton. and him were kind of the core cast.

And we all got along. We all had a great time. I mean, but me and Ed, we would go out. We would go out, shoot, pool. You know what I mean? We would go out. We would go out. And I remember they had, like, on one of the buildings, a rooftop, which was kind of

redone. They had couches up there and a grill, and we would just bring a bow speaker and a bunch of beer. And, like, we would have parties up there. Were you banging darts ever? Oh, yeah. Yeah. He was a big smoker.

Of course. All my New York friends smoked. They were, like, actors there. and like you could smoke somewhere indoors. And I never enjoyed them. You're a good boy. You wanted to be cool. But I would hit the butt, you know, get the cigarette thing.

Sure. I think I'm cool. Like, I really loved it. You know what I mean? You're on a rooftop banging a dart drink of beer in New York City. Yeah. How was your ego, though, at the time? It must have been through the roof, right?

It's funny. It does affect you. Of course. How fame always affects you. Can we talk about the moment? Because you were seeing the Black Keys in Central Park. Yeah, you got it. You and Ed.

Right. And that was the first time where all the, a sudden people are starting to come up to you. Yeah, there's a very first time. I'll never forget it. It's a validating feeling to kind of know that what you're been working on is being enjoyed and seen. It's the signal of success. It's impossible to not like that.

You can get annoyed at certain situations. But to this day, even people that are fans of the boys, like, deep. I love that. It's a fun thing. It's lovely. There's uncomfortable parts, but boy, it's lovely. Especially when you're young. I mean, that was like the show.

It still holds up. I can't watch it. My memory of how funny the thing was versus when I watch it on. I'm like, oh, no, I'm inflated in my mind. I remember the Timberlake one was hilarious. Oh, my God. It was a kind of cultural phenomenon. Yeah, it was.

Yeah. You guys created a word. That word now is in the zeitgeist. Yeah. After eight years of auditioning, not getting anything, it was a rocket ship. And so you, and you already hinted at it, but it can make you an asshole or it can make you a bit paranoid. And it sounds like you went down the paranoid route.

How is it affecting you? And I would imagine it's more tolerable when you're drunk. Right. It becomes a great companion piece to this new experience. It does. And we're not working all the time. And we had the keys to the city in a sense. I remember the first iPhone coming out and being like paranoid about iPhone pictures where she couldn't even see anything. I was stupid like one pixel. You know, I remember it was the young teenage thing where sometimes it'd be a lot of energy. And that would sometimes kind of like startle me a little bit, you know. Yeah, you had rabid fans.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, it became a little bit rabid. I mean, it was crazy for a minute. I remember feeling like a bit of a fraud, like an imposter. That's why alcohol helps. Because when you're drunk, your ego gets to inflate. And you're like, yeah, I am the shit. But when you're sober, you're like, I don't deserve this. Exactly. But when you're hammering, you're like, you're damn right.

I'm fucking awesome. It's such a high. Yeah. You almost need the booze to actually enjoy the celebrity. That's so profound. It's so true. It's so true. I'm just now realizing that.

You're so much more comfortable in your own skin, though. And we would go out. We had other friends in the city. Were you making also other actor friends that you? you were like flattered by, like are other actors around town starting to hang with you? A little bit, yeah, and Nick's players. And like it was kind of like you kind of make friends with someone. Like, yeah, the picture of the Mets.

Pretty cool. And Sebastian, I think he came on like episode four or five, Stan. And like, we were already friends. So it was like, yes, got another friend here. And we were all just going around. We had a great time. It was a lot of fun. But it is sort of like a weird drug that you chase.

You need to kind of be validated. And you realize, like, what is wrong with me? It's a very heightened experience that's hard to compute. And then it's also quite addictive. and in the absence of it, you feel a big drop. Right. Yeah, if you're out in New York City and fucking 40% of the girls at the bar like you. 40, 99.

Yeah, probably 99. I'm one of them, I will tell you 99. Yeah, man, that's a special experience. Yeah. It was good for a while. It is a bit empty, though. You're trying to keep chasing that feeling or that high. Well, you feel it when you're not experiencing.

Again, it's so high. Right. It kind of drives you that question. Like, why am I doing this? What am I doing? What am I doing? What am I going to do next? I need to kind of maintain this thing that's been created.

And what's my reason for doing the next project or picking the next thing? And if it's fame and you're trying to maintain that, it's a lose, lose. Yes. Did it ever get weird on set while you guys were becoming these big stars where you guys kind of like, do you guys know, I'm a big star? On set when they would ask you to do things or you'd have to be there for so many hours of you guys like, do you know how I am? All of you, you were all becoming such big stars. You know, we were pretty lucky. I feel like everyone was in their own.

respects very well adjusted. Like everyone was cool. And you're working with everyone at some point. The characters are in a thousand episodes are going to sleep together. Like you have like six months with someone. Then me and Penn are doing shit. Yeah.

And me and head are working. So I had my own time with everyone to kind of forge a relationship. They were good relationships. I know there's this kind of stereotype of any time you have a bunch of young people on a show they're going to be very competitive. But I actually think the blessing of it is

when you're the singular star of the show, you can really start thinking your shit doesn't sting. But if you're sharing it, you're not this big special thing. You're all getting fucking heat when you walk out. You're all experiencing it. So it's like you can't feel so unique in it. That helps. Yeah.

And it kind of all happened at the same time. And then inevitably, there is a little bit of what is this person getting? When you're young, I'm older. You're just more relaxed with all that stuff. It doesn't really matter. Yeah. But back then. You're kind of become pretentious or you know, you kind of become self-important.

You know, you want to be important. You want to like be the guy. there is a little bit of that anxiety of like, what is he doing that I'm not. Right. I think when it gets dicey is the summer break. Exactly. It's like, who got what? Oh, they're working with that person.

I better be doing that too. Yeah. That's hard not to feel that way. You're sitting on your ass and you're like, yo, they're doing like a studio movie. Eddie Murphy, first year or Saturday Night Live, he's on Saturday Night. They go away for the summer break and then he stars in 48 hours.

And when they return, he's in the biggest movie of the summer. And they're all castmates that all started. And like, that's a lot to deal with. it for everyone. Totally. How did you, or maybe you did, I didn't follow the drama of it, but did you avoid getting romantically involved with any of these people? Yeah. Because I would have, that's where I would have absolutely floundered. I would have tried to date all of them. Some of them dated each other. Yeah. Okay. There's things that happen, connections that happen. I mean, you know, yeah, I never dated anyone on the show.

Officially. I mean, there's a lot of, like, guest stars and people like in the orbit of the show that you'd meet through other friends even. And I remember that was a way to meet people. You should. Everyone dates people from work. Why would you not do that in show business? Especially when you're already kissing them. I mean, you're literally already.

You've already. Yeah, but you know, on that, on that, it's like there's 60 people watch with the boom, Mike and they say, oh, you know, they want you to be shirtless again. It's like the whole other thing, you know. When you're young, it is a different thing. It is like a college experience. It's all different. Everyone's kind of single and dating or whatever.

Everyone's sort of up for, you know, up for whatever. No one's married. The stakes are very low, you know. It is a funnier, more college, like, school experience for sure. You wish you had his life. I would have blown it up. Like, I'm impressed you navigated it. I would have fucked up.

I would have been part. I think I was close to fucking. Okay, okay. Fuck, I miss the part that you're an Abercrombie and Finch model. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Were you in the documentary?

Oh, no. I wanted to think God. I did watch that documentary, though. Yeah. What if I said, you don't have been great. as I said, did you get romantically involved with any of the cast members? And you go, just Kristen Bell. Kristen had the best job.

She was in this room with a mic doing it weekly. And that was amazing. We had started dating just as she was getting that offered. And she's like, this is pretty great. I'm getting like an episodic fee. And I think that's going to be about 15 minutes a week. Yeah. They redid it, right?

Yeah, she got to suck off of that. Yeah. And it showed her voiceover skills, which took her someplace. Right. Right. Right. No, completely. My last question on that period is how blessed and or resentful do you feel that you guys got to do that just before social media was a thing?

That's a good question. I feel really blessed, actually. In some weird way, gossip girl was ahead of its time because it was about this blogger. It kind of was looking at that social media thing in a different way. But I'm just so thankful that wasn't around when we were there. I mean, how many athletes and actors, you know, you tweet something when you're 18, 20, you do something. is video last for forever. I probably would have lost everything

if the video thing was real. But the other flip side of that is I wish I'd start an Instagram count when Lash and Cutchard did at the very beginning. Like I would have a million, you know. So that's what I was going to say. The con of it not being there is there are so many people that have been on these shows

that they're very zeitgeistee and all young people like them, but they're not huge ratings hit. People aren't renegotiating making a ton of money, but they're making a killing on their social media, which is a nice little thing that you probably could have also made a ton of money outside of the show had that been around at that time. I kind of missed a generation like I'm not all about putting myself out there all the time. But you've had some success in it.

Yeah, you and Miles Teller dancing and stuff. Those have gone by. That was against my will. There's many videos. There's not just one. There's a golf one you're probably referencing. But you guys are shirtless and masks. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You're doing a lot of dancing. And his bodies look great, by the way. Yeah. That was a pandemic. That was when we all went a little crazy. Okay, so when the show ended, I had this very mixed feeling about parenthood ending, which is I also had done six years on that show. Like, you did six years, right?

I got some girl. And I had these two feelings, which was like, one was I could have done that show for the rest of my life. I loved everyone so much. It was such a lovely work environment. I had such freedom. And also, if I do anything for six years, I'm kind of like, okay, I want a new experience. So what were you feeling like when it ended? With the Gossip Girl thing ending, I got super depressed, and it was way out of left field

because I felt like I had to move back to Los Angeles. You probably did need to for your health. Yeah, no, no, completely, completely. But I kind of remember thinking, why did I just invest and buy a place and stay in New York? I'm glad I didn't. But I remember getting plop back in L.A., and it's like anything else. Those people become your identity in a way. They're their family.

I realized that became really important to me. It's the hair and makeup girls you talk to every day. It's a transpo guy that picks you up. It's just that. rhythm and that you are somebody and you mean something in that sphere. And the schedule's tethering you. It's like it's what's allowing you to go be a fucking maniac. Enjoy it.

Yeah. Because you click back into the routine and it's stabilizing. Yes. I got spit back out here and I remember being like depressed for six months. Listen, not like clinically. I was getting out of bed, but I was not in a good way. And I would imagine too, at least in my experience, you have all these waves of thought. You first get off the show and you're like, okay, I probably have a lot of options.

So I got to choose correctly. And then a couple months goes by and all of a sudden you're like, do I have this many options? You start recalculating what you're going to do. And it can be madness trying to figure out what you're supposed to follow up something like a parenthood or a gossip girl with. People think, you know, you're the star of this show. And the reality of it in the industry, it's a double-edged sword. You know, you're like the pretty boy who was like on a CW show.

That honestly was, you don't want to see you're in the doghouse, but there is a little bit of that. Yeah. That was the reality I was facing coming back. People think you have all these options and these offers. You have an option to do the same thing probably. You don't really have an imagination in casting. You kind of got to prove yourself, which is all well and good. But I remember it being limited and not realizing, oh, shit, I'm not getting the looks I'm wanting.

And even if I'm getting close to stuff and putting in good work, it's like, oh, it's not a good fit. So it was a bit of wanting to really, really switch it up. I don't know about you, but you also start losing confidence. I got to readjust what I think I'm going to be able to get into. It was a real lesson for the first time of like, okay, I was stripped kind of of all the confidence. And again, how you go into that room and act confident to get that job if you're feeling completely. If you're desperate for it. Air of desperation.

And it's those moments of being in this business industry that people don't see, but you've got to navigate. And that was my first time really now. And you're also pretty darn young still. Like, how old were you when the show ended? 27, 8. That's the age I was when I got on punked. Did you have a chip on your shoulder about the show? Because I don't anymore.

I have nothing but gratitude. But I had a few years where I couldn't stand when people would bring up punk to me. Really? Yes, because it was like, it was a reality show. And they would ask me like, what's it like to act when I was promoting without a paddle?

And I was like, I've been acting. That's the most acting. That's an annoying question. Yeah, yeah. And I was just so defensive about it being a reality show. And then were you friends with Ash?

And I'm like, no, I just had all these chips on my shoulder about it. I did too, for sure. I would feel defensive, I guess, is the only word. I just feel like defensive. Like, don't ask me about that. You know what I mean?

I'm moving on other things. But I was always grateful of the show. It was never the people. Well, that's what I'm sad about is that I had that association with it. Even the first time I interviewed Ashton, I was kind of admitting to that. And he's like, yeah, I very much felt that. And it kind of hurt his feelings. Okay, got you.

That I wanted to be so distanced from this great thing he and I did together. And now, of course, I can go like. like, oh my God, no one gets to be on a cultural phenomenon. And can't believe I never had Apex gratitude for it. Like, of course, I was at the gratitude that it gave me all the opportunities I ended up getting. But also just, dude, if you're on it's something like that one time in your life, that's going to the Super Bowl. It just doesn't happen. It's hard to get to that.

Rarified era. It really is. But again, you're so scared because you've had that. Yeah. It's like, oh, my God, how on earth do I get on another thing of that kind of cultural momentum? Yeah. Right, which is tough. And now that it's had this weird life through streaming.

It's had like these nine lives and the same age, you know, fan comes up. I love it. But there was a time. It just felt like this black cloud, you know, I couldn't get away from. And it was hard to break out of that. By the way, I used to have it with Kristen, too. It's like every interview I'd get in, they would ask me about Kristen. Right.

I'm like, oh, I'm only here because they want to hear about Kristen. And then I was smart enough to realize, like, oh, when I see Kristen, all they do is ask about me. Yeah, yeah. They just don't know what to fucking ask you about. Right. There's nothing person going. There's no evaluation of anything going on. Exactly.

But now, yeah, I can sit and do a two-hour podcast on Punkton. I'd be delighted for someone to go through every episode. You know, like, I would love to talk about it. You should do a rewatch. Oh, I couldn't. You should do a re-wit. I could talk about it, but I couldn't watch it. But that is the most acting, though.

That really is, though. That's the thing. Like, that's the real shit. The commitment. You can't say cut. Yeah, there's no cut. You either fuck up the entire three-day thing they've been setting up. The stakes are high.

And it's always like the celebrity that you can sniff that out quickly, you know? I mean, it's high. If I tip it and go too big, and yet I want to go big. That's my chance to be funny. Yeah. I'm wearing a fucking wig and shit with Nicolshea. Yeah. I'm going as hard as I can't without it.

Like, I'm going to cut off shirt and shit. Oh, what a great episode. It's dup for a wee watch. I want to see him all right. It's brilliant. It's my favorite. I've watched it recently, even after knowing him. I'm like, it's so good.

Like Jerry Judy's great and all, but it's not punked. You know, that was like the thing, man. It was the best. It was really good. So, yeah. Walk me through this chapter, right? This is a chapter between, I would say, gossip girl and the boys. Right.

How do you keep your spirits high? Do you find joy? Do you figure out how to recalibrate? Like, what is that journey? Yeah, that was probably the toughest journey, like the lowest point. Let me think. I basically sort of snapped out of it a little bit, a little bit. And it just felt so daunting the task of like auditioning and trying to get that next thing.

Yes. And will I ever get something as culturally rather than a big again? I did a pilot. it got picked up. Oiling. Yeah, they changed the name of it. The best version of it would have been like Yellowstone, basically. And that's where I thought in my head, oh, they were going to want this thing.

The guys who created and wrote it were amazing. They all got fired. But ABC wanted it. They put on all these new people. We moved to Park City, which was amazing to live up there. Early on, it was like, oh, shit. It was the first time I was like scared. Am I going to be stuck on this?

It was a great experience. But I was a little nervous about it. It was fine to be stranded in New York City as a young person. Yeah. But you probably never envisioned moving to Park City, Utah when you left Dallas. That's a big part of the job that I think is fine to be like, well, I don't know. Or live in Canada for seven, eight years. Right, right, right, right.

It's a big, leave your life. Yeah. I bought a truck, drove out there. It was great for a while, but it's a sleepy town. It's not New York. Thank God. I got a girlfriend. That was kind of a nice thing.

I dated a girl that we were working together. Your longest relationship, three years. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. That's interesting because if you're me and you fall in love and you're both out of town, A, of course you're going to fall in love.

You're both lonely and out of town. Yeah. You're also playing house. Totally. That's a good way to put it. And then you got to return to real life back and forth. I don't know. I think that would be weird.

Yeah. I've never done that full experience, but I could see it being tricky. And somehow we did. We navigated it. It ended. It was actually, in totality, it was like, oh, that was actually great. I did 13 episodes of this thing. We kind of had summer through winter and

Park City, it was great. And then you guys stayed together for a long time. And we stayed together. Yeah, yeah, we did. And we worked that out. And that's when I realized I am better in a relationship. I'm just, you know what I mean? Like, like, single me is not the best version. In a way. Well, there's a lot of data to support that. Marry guys live like 11 years long. I mean, it's like, yeah, we're not great on our own. He was like, don't go to the doctor. Right, right. No, yeah, yeah, I realized I like need some help. So that was all great and we're still friends. What do you do wrong in relationships? What do I do wrong? I just try too hard.

I love too much. I love too hard. I'll go first. Yeah, what do you think? Yeah, I had this relationship with three for nine years. I left that one and there's no way it could have been her fault. I mean, she was a great human being. I had to be responsible for a lot of it.

And I think I had the wherewithal. I was like 36 at the time or something. And I was like, we got to figure out what we were doing wrong. Clearly, I need to break some habits. I'm probably a bit. I want them. to think like me too much. I was terrible about money.

I was so bad at sharing money. I was like, oh, this is my money. You know, I did a lot of things that I knew I got to break this the next time I'm in one,

which was Kristen. I met Kristen. She was a Christian, vegetarian who lived with eight people and had 16 dogs. These are all things I would have normally been like, I love her, but there's no way I can hang with all this other stuff.

Right. I'm laughing because she does all those things now. But I do. You didn't ever challenge any of those. They're not religious. Well, that's the funny thing about life. You didn't control it. But you want to, though.

We get past the honeymoon phase and you start to try and change the other, or control the other person in just small ways, even. I'm guilty of that. Yeah, and it has the veil of being gross and controlling, which certainly it is. But really, it's about safety because you're like, I don't know, man. If she feels this way and I feel this way, I'm scared that we can both hold these conflicting opinions and still be a unit. Underneath of it's some weird fear, don't we need to be more aligned? in order for it to work.

I don't think it's entirely disgusting in premise of why you're acting that way. It's just like, well, how are we going to? I remember we had a fight one time about like if we had kids, we're going to raise them with religion. And after that fight, I think I had a wise person and A.A. tell me, I'm sorry, is she pregnant? And I'm like, no. So why are you fighting today about something that you don't even know is going to happen?

You think it could change. You're living so far in the future. You guys are having a fight about something in the future that is so out of touch. Right. And then I never brought it up again, right? You get worried about those things before they happen. One of my biggest things is I'm like a bottler. Passive aggressiveness is a big problem for me. Like I'll hold on to things and I won't communicate them properly.

You got a little vault. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you can pull out one necessary. I don't run to the hard conversation. It'll turn into a fight and it's about something else. I'll realize, oh, shit, it's actually about all this other stuff. I'm so sorry. And you were holding on to six months of shit.

Yeah. And so that all comes out in the fight. It's about like a cup left on the tape. You know what I mean? Something's so stupid. And then you're like, oh, my guy, it's just, I'm so sorry. This is not, you know, but that's one thing for me. So that's part of the people pleaser thing, right?

Like, will you lose her affection by having these issues in this relationship? It's out of fear. Things are safe. Don't rock the boat. Don't do anything that could jeopardize. And these are just kind of now piling up. Homeal sasis. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And they're all little things until they're not, right? Was there not a lot of fighting in your house growing up? Or was there fighting? Because I think it could go either way. Some of both, really. I mean, my parents were really young. I can't believe they even got. through that time with med school.

I can barely have a dog now. I'm 40. You know, I was out. I've dealt, you know, 20 with two kids, but they were amazing. Yeah,

and they figured it out. Yeah, med school workload and two little kids. Yeah, and your mom's living summer she didn't want to live. Right. Yeah, yeah,

Minnesota. Yeah, she did not like putting those chains on that van. She's in Park City, yeah. So it's not like you grew up around it, so you are emulating it or trying to avoid it. Right.

I guess it's in relationships. You need to run to the hard conversations. No one wants to do it, You got to have the hard conversation sooner rather than later, and that's just what you need to do. And is your move to shut down? Yeah. Get quiet and distant. And wait for her to figure out why you're hurting.

Exactly. You just resort to being like the child you were with your parents, basically. That's really what it is. Yeah. Oh, my God, I'm doing what I did to my mom. It's all that stuff. And you always got to be aware of it. Okay, so good.

So the relationship, I'm presuming that was an identity outside of acting. Right. That was forward momentum as a human, building a life. I imagine those three years bought you a little reprieve from just you sitting there contemplating your career by yourself. Completely. She was an actress. It was very much a great support system. It was also in a weird way.

This isn't the only reason I was getting in a relationship. But it was to prove to myself I was capable of being in a successful relationship. So I was motivated to be a good partner and boyfriend, you know, and I definitely failed at that in many ways. But I need to, like, grow up a little bit. It did facilitate that. I learned a lot. You always do, right? Was it hard for you to let go of the fun nights out and lots of options? Yes and no.

I definitely still stayed at the party a little too late. I was still like having fun with the guys and like going out and stuff. Probably could have shut that down a lot. Sooner, I still like that fun. But now I'm like, I love home. I love cooking. I love being in a relationship. Nancy with Miles.

With a loaf of white bread. Yeah, that was embarrassing. But that stuff just gets tiring after. Wow. You just get old. It gets less fun. It gets less fun. It affects you a lot more. Your body will tell you. Yeah. And the illusion. Again, I'm a novelty seeker. So it's like, it has the appearance of a novel night. But if you really take imagery, you're like, oh, I do this same thing over and over and over again. Even if I hook up with a new person, it's the same thing. There's really no surprises. Exactly. And you feel like it's going to be this thing. And it's never what it is. For me, it was a bit the revelry of it. Being with friends and the drinking, it was always kind of. like this high of revelry. Yes. The socializing aspect was tough for me. Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

I just had a thought. Yeah. I love the intimacy you could have with other men while drunk. Right. I just craved that. And I loved, I showed up with a six-pack, and then now I can say I love you. Your innovations are so down. Yes.

I crave that intimacy with men. And drinking gave that to me. You don't even realize you know that's what you're looking for or what you need in your life. And you'll find a lot of them, you know, friends that you're just friends within that bubble of partying or whatever. Yeah. Right. And then that disappears and it's, okay, you know, it's tougher. Jack London, the writer, he wrote a book called John Barley Corn.

I don't know if you ever heard of it. I have not, no. But it's this very, very honest book about his relationship with drinking towards the end of his life. And he was a hardcore alcoholic by the end where he had to wake up in the middle of night and drink in the middle of the night to stay asleep. And it was, I think reading that book that occurred to me, oh, that's what I was kind of craving that I loved is he just talks about the intimacy at a bar with males and how without that he could have never had that. He couldn't get there without that.

Like a real conversation with that. Just the intimacy. The depth of a relationship. Yeah, being emotional. Exactly. And change your fears to another man. And all these things you just dare not do, sober with another dude. It's so hard to get there.

It feels like it's hard to get there. sober, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. A's a hack for that. It's like you're kind of forced to be with these other men doing that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We all agree. Let's sit down for an hour and like be real as fuck. Yeah. Talk about what we're afraid of. How we fucked up in our relationship. What we regret about our parenting. And it's like, how are you doing that unless you're hammered at a bar at 2 a.m.? When I left New York, all those guy friends were still in New York and I didn't realize I was doing a lot of that just to have those connections. And when all that kind of goes away and you realize you're a home by, I was like, I really don't have that many friends. Real friends. Yeah, yeah. You

gravitate to those guys that are going out and the revelry of that and connecting with those guys. So where were you at optimistically just before the boys happens? How are you assessing what the future of your life is professionally just before the boys? It was dark for me. I mean, in my mind. It wasn't really. You know, I know I was probably in a place that a lot of people would love to have been. Sure.

You weren't on Taylor's couch. But there is that, you know, what have you done for me lately type thing and keeping up with the Joneses? Like, what are these guys doing that I'm not, you know, is all that. You're seeing everyone you know. on billboards all day long as you drive through the city. Yeah, it's L.A. Yeah, yeah. And there's that anxiety there that I don't get, even if I'm

working in Toronto, that you kind of relax when you're out of L.A. You have no clue what's going on. Sebastian's getting nominated for Oscars. What the fuck? You can be happy for them and still be like, uh-oh, what am I doing? No, no, completely. And I'm in a different place now. I'm almost 41, but I'm much more relaxed. In early 30s, it was just a doom loop.

What am I going to do with my life? It felt like there was nothing that was ever going to happen again. Well, you're 34 probably, right, seven years ago? 32, probably. I think I turned 33 the year that the boys happened. I remember reading it and not getting that many good, you know, again, people's casting imaginations limited. I was getting all these things. It was more the same. I didn't want to do. And I read the script of the boys. I was like, what the fuck is this? This is amazing. I would imagine, too, there's a little bit of a gift in that it's such an enormous swing. I can only imagine reading that first script. Because that's, that's true. chose so much about execution. That script, the pilot, could go so wrong. The odds of it being executed

in the way it was is like a 1% chance. Yeah. So I also imagine getting that script and going, wow, this is really cool. And also, if I don't get it, this is probably going to fail. Like, I could be liberated by what a big swing it is and not get overly worked up about auditioning for it. Honestly, I'm like, how are they going to do this? Like, how are they going to make this thing? A guy's getting miniature and going on a guy's penis and floating the whole body. You're like, how the fuck is It felt like a shot at the moon. Like, is this too good to be true? Am I tripping?

Like, this is insane. And are they letting us do this? It goes so hard. Yeah, but I did feel I was like, this is hilarious. I was like, I know this guy, this narcissistic, unselfaware asshole who's in a therapist couch

talking about his only friends is the local lobster. Like, that was the audition scene. It was like a monologue of this thing. I just felt connected to it and like everyone is reading for it. And yeah, it was a great audition. Okay, so I'm going to be dead honest with you. Your fear is a little bit grounded. right, which is like, I only know of you as an actor on Gossip Girl at that time.

And I never watched Gossip Girl. So I just fill in the blanks of what Gossip Girl is. Yeah. And so I had this wonderful, shocking moment when I'm watching the boys. And, you know, maybe Kristen said it out loud first where she's like, fucking Chase is so good in this. And I'm like, yeah, this dude's fucking awesome. It was like a huge revelation to me. I was like, well, this dude has got no vanity.

You're the butt of every joke. And you are just fucking driving straight into it. And you're not protecting yourself at all. It's the way you got to play that character. It's the only way to do it. But a lot of actors would get vain and they would just wink enough to go, I want you to know I'm in on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's very tempting to go, I want the audience to know I'm a little in on it. I've always appreciated in the women. I think of like Margo Rabba, even on Estin-L, that she's not afraid to go there and to be crazy or ugly. comedy. The way to go about is have no ego about it. I think even Anthony, who plays Homeland on the show, came into it and had the same thought about me. Like, this asshole is going to try and alpha out. And it is just not the right way to play it. So we had a good time on that show. Yeah, you're so goddamn good. It's very impressive. Yeah, you're fucking great. And then

your body. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Your body. Oh, man. Do we amped it up, the training for that? I did. What was the approach? no pasta, no more fucking up in can't eat and spaghetti. I'll never do it again. It was bad for six months. I got so excited for this role and I'm like, I'm gonna get shredded or jacked, you know, just for fun for me.

Of course. And I don't know what the suit's gonna be. It was sleeveless, whatever. They didn't give us a trainer. I was like, wait, I'm gonna do it on my own. But I did the keto thing for six months. It was good for like a few months and it was brutal after that.

I had to stop it. I know people think it's vain and everything, but the sensation of having control over that. I was just about to say, It gives you control in a way. It's a healthy. I was able to channel my obsession kind of into that without going overboard.

And it was a lot of fun, you know, like have time to do that too. If you're an actor and you're not working, or if you are, but if you're off, it's the only way to, like, structure your day, I feel like around a workout or something. It's mentally for me, like, yeah, I have to do it.

There's a lot of great performances on that show, but Anthony's is fucking outrageous. Outrage. It is outrageous. When Chris and I watch yourself, we love the fucking boys so much. We're like, the fact that this guy isn't won every single Emmy is absolutely insane.

He's been nominated once. And yet he has these turns where I feel bad for him. And he's funny sometimes. He's hilarious. Man, is that a performance. And so I'm at a restaurant like six months ago. And I see him and then we're like, hey, we stand up and we hug. And I'm like, oh my God, it's so great to meet you finally.

And he goes, yeah, yeah, since New Zealand. And I was like, what's he talking about? And he goes, you know, I'm without a paddle. And all of a sudden I was like, oh my God. Do you remember you watched it for the reunion? I know. We have a dead friend. The whole movie's about our dead friend, Billy Newwood.

Yeah. He played Billy Newwood. And I was like, oh, my God. And I've seen it. I don't even remember. I'm like, dude, nothing could be more out of context. I met you in New Zealand 20 years ago. And yes, now, of course, I realize that that's you.

Did they show the dead boom frame? They show them, yeah, yeah. In our flashback scenes, we're like, I'm wearing a leather jacket and we're like young and cool. Right, right. He was Billy too. He's from, he's from the museum. You meet him. He's like, hey, my, how you doing?

You know, you're like, oh, wow, different than Homelander. It's great. Where did the guy who created it, his name starts with the K? Eric Kripke. Where did he come from? He came from Supernatural on all that show with Jensen Ackles and Padalecky. And Jetson was on a show as well. It was a long-ass run that show.

Civil War guy. What was his name? Yeah, Soldier Boy. Yeah. Yeah, he's got a spin-off. They're doing. Oh, they are. Yeah, they're doing a spin-off.

That's a great character. Like a prequel. I don't know all the details, but yeah, it's good. Are you so excited you get to play kind of like a weirdo? So against what people think about you? It was so refreshing to me. We had a day, like fourth episode. They had a full series order because of Seth Rogen and Evan Goldberg.

Like they were behind us. They got the full order. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, we're middle of the show. I'm like, are the people going to like this? Because I was like, you know, squirting down the dolphin, like talking to some inanimate dolphin in the back. And they're moving the van. And like, Anthony's over there, like, in an airplane not saving anyone because he's like,

Oh, fuck you guys. It was amazing. We're like, are people going to, like, connect with it? And people do. It felt really tonally weird. So he came from Supernatural. Were Seth and Evan around it all? They were actually.

They didn't come to set that often. They would be depressed up. But they would send me emails like, dude, this one line you had lived. I keep replaying it. Like, they were watching. I was like, oh, that's really cool. Like Evan would like email me sometimes. And they were just super fans of the show.

There really are like comic book fans at heart. And they just wanted to like do what they love. Now, did they have you in mind or did you have to really win them over for this? How did you get it? I don't know the entire Genesis of it. I remember them landing on, they want to cast people that aren't all their famous friends, basically. Right.

So they wanted to read everyone for it. And Crypti was in every room for every single, I think except Anthony. I think Anthony was in New Zealand, made some tape, and they were like, we want that guy. I remember going in and it was like 60 people.

I saw the thing. I'm like, oh, I realize I'm like, I'm last of the day. What's the worst name you saw on the list? And I don't mean they're bad, but you're just like, I'm fucked.

Like actors, you know, you mean? Well, I'll give you example. I remember going in for baby mama and I'm sitting in the waiting room and he's next to me, James Gordon. And he's telling me they just flew him from London for this callback. And I go, well, I'm done. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I spend him 15 grand to bring this guy from London here.

But these moments in auditions where you're just like, I'm dead. I remember recognizing some names and some friends who had been. They weren't actually in the room because I was like last. I remember being upset. These people aren't going to. That's like a Tuesday. There's like 60 people all day. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I didn't even realize that Kripke was going to be in the room. At the time, I didn't really know maybe he was like the creator. Or maybe I knew he's like a producer. But I remember being just irritated. And that's kind of the best, sometimes the best state to be. Because, like, you kind of don't care at that point. You just don't care. You're not, don't have this era of like, hi, like, nice to meet you.

You know, I can get it now. You know. They're dead in there. I remember is before the holidays. I'm like, they're not even going to remember this. They're going to go on hiatus top of the year. They're going to keep recasting it. bring it back in for a million different reads.

So I was literally the last person in there. And I was kind of mad. Just kind of went in there and did it. And I kind of heard Cripty chuckling in the corner. And then he was like, okay, try to do it. Like, you know, you kind of throw me a few improv things. And you know, the lobster was your... The lobster thing.

And then it was that. And then an intense scene with Starlight Aaron's character. They changed it in the pilot, in the real pilot, with what I actually do, which is a crazy thing. Sexually assaulted. Yeah. That wasn't in any of the pilots or anything. Okay.

They were holding that. Yeah, they were like, hey, this was like a big storyline jumping off for her character in the comics, and we're actually going to put that back in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're going to be the guy to do it. And I was like, oh. I remember being very nervous.

Me Too was going out. I was like, oh, God, this is terrible. Yeah, a lot of people would be like, I'm not playing that. I don't want to play that. I remember being like, okay, I'm just going to own this. We're going to talk about it and talk about it until we can get this thing right. And they did, took it with very great care. And I was nervous as all, you know, about that airing.

And like, oh, my God, what are people going to say? is going to be the right timing. Not about the show. And not wanting to be a big joke either. Like, we were making fun of it. They did it in a very real way and it was dark. That was kind of the theme of the show. Like, you don't want to meet your heroes.

The way they handled the tonal shifts on that show is sublime. It's like you get every single thing you could want in a show in that thing. Prip's genius, yeah. You're bringing back so many audition memories. Thinking of sitting in the room, I can tell you, I've been numerous occasions. Like, I have an audition where I'm going to have to cry. And I'm like, yeah, I can't do that on you, right? And you're sitting there, you can hear a guy is three feet away divided by a paper door.

And this guy's balling and I can hear it. Yeah. And you're just like, oh, I'm so fuck. Toss the papers. You want to leave. You go, I can just get off. No, that's when you go in and you're like, so I'm making a different choice. Yeah, yeah.

And it's a choice. I'm presuming you guys saw crying. So I'm going to do this other thing that's very hard to do also. He's like a trained British dude, of course. You're like, oh, my God. Your arc on the show, yeah, you sexually assault someone. Terrible. Then you got to rehab your public persona, and you join this very Scientology-esque church.

Amazing, yeah. Lose your autonomy in there. And then they pair you with a wife. And then she ditches you. And then you find love with an octopus. Yeah. Yeah. The ride.

My favorite. Like, have you pushed back ever? I imagine after season one. They've built now some confidence with you. Like, these motherfuckers can pull off anything. So now I can go with God. You enter like season two just going like, oh, yeah, I'll fucking snorkeled beer out of someone's ass. Like I'll do anything they say because they can lay in the plane.

Yeah. I mean, season two was great because they had this mushroom tea thing and I was like tripping with the gills and talking to them. I thought that was so great. And funny. But then season two, well, Crypti called me up. And he's like, have you seen like my octopus teacher? And I was like, yeah. I mean, it's like,

didn't it seem like that guy was like trying to fuck the octopus? I was like, oh, kind of. What are you talking about, man? Like, that's your storyline, you know? I remember being hesitant, but then he was like, no, no, no, but it's real.

Like, you can't connect with humans. That's like your safe space and you keep her like in a tank in your closet. Yeah, and she feels like a secret and she's, you know, you're ashamed of her. It's very deep.

He's like you're reading poetry, tree Jones is just brilliant. You fucking didn't clean her tank, man. Yeah. Not only when you not let her be in the tank by your bed, but like it's filled the American. Well, people can't see. But she's sitting in there in a murky fucking stew. It's really bad.

You know what? It's kind of like when people fell in love with their slaves. Montchausen syndrome kind of thing. Well, no, like really when people fell in love with their slaves, but they were still enslaved. And it was like, you're over there. But I'm going to, yeah, I'm maybe it will cut that. Yeah, we'll probably take it. Well, I'll make the decision.

I make the decision. Yeah, yeah. You'll decide. Hopefully you're in a good month. But also Munchausens I'm very interested in as well. That's her favorite. Her two topics are CTE and Munchausen. Yeah.

Really? Yeah. I love those two. If you met someone who there's Munchausen was claiming they had CTE, he would spray. Oh, I see like part of their Munchausers is that. Oh, yeah. Faking that they had C. No, no, no, no, hold on.

Come on. I don't want someone with CTE. I'm just always on the lookout for CTE. I just always on the lookout for CTE. I just. think it's everywhere. I think a lot of people have it. She thinks 60% of the population may have. You might have it. He played football. So I hate to tell me.

She has looked many guests in the face and said, do you think you have CT? And it's like, there could be nothing scarier to evaluate as whether or not you're about to turn. Now I'm not sure. Maybe. Thanks for suggesting that. Yeah. You should get that really checked out. I did lose my temper at the grocery store yesterday. So yeah.

Exactly. I've been volatile recently. Yeah. Now, I hear that it's the biggest show on Prime. Do you have any sense? of like how big it is. I want to know. I want to understand. I want to know too. I guess they don't release the numbers. They say it is. It's a very global show. It is, which was kind of shocking, because humor is the one thing they want is like a global show nowadays. And it was shocking.

But our show, the humor crossed over. All people are disgusting. It turns out. Yeah, everyone's a dirtbag. Superreo genre was saturated with the same formulaic storyline. At any time the show comes out, there is like an influx of people like, you know, flight attendant, And they're like, oh my God, you can tell people are watching it. Even in like Europe to Brazil, like people are crazy about the show. It's a good feeling, you know. Yeah, it's really nice thing. Seth and Evan, they just cannot miss.

No. They're so good. They're so good. I'll say, though, even internationally, though, it's more gossip girl stuff. That was hugely syndicated, right? I sometimes turn it on for a little comfort show. It's a good background. Like an old background.

2009, you got people's, summer's hottest bachelor. Did I? You did. I would be both extremely flattered and like, that's specific. Did you have to make up this category? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. People's Summer's hottest bachelor. Such a specific award. Congratulations.

2009. Yeah, my heyday. This is unfair on me, but what happened with Footloose? Why were you rehearsing for that? Oh, God. Yeah, that was an interesting story. Yeah, what happened? I remember really wanting it. It was Kenny Ortega, who's amazing. I remember telling him, I'm like, I can't sing or dance. It was an interesting challenge because they're like, no, we're going to like learn into this thing. And they're like, we're going to fly you out and do a big screen test. And I rehearsed for it a little bit, but they were just kind of testing out if I was even trainable. You know, everybody even had like basic body wear. So you're connected with your body at all. Right. And I had a whole

day of that. And what was funny about that day, they put in this like reader to read opposite me, a female actress. And she was really good. And natural and we'd eat lunch. And she was cool. She's from Kentucky is Jennifer Lawrence. No. No way. Jennifer Lawrence. As the reader? Yeah, as the reader. And she was like 17.

Probably hadn't even done that first. Winter's Bone. Had done Winter's Bone, definitely not yet. But I heard being really cool. I was like, hey, thank you for being there with me like all day. She was like, yeah, I know, it was really good and whatever. But I remember it was Jennifer Lawrence. That's so funny.

So I did that and I felt good about it. You know, Kenny Ortega was, oh, it was great. You know, I'd do this thing. And I think they wanted to go in a totally different direction at some point. They hired a new director. Like, oh, but you're still going to be the guy. I had signed a contract that I didn't even know what this meant pay or play at the time. Yeah, yeah, never happened since.

You get paid whether you do the thing or not. So I remember being kind of irritated. It didn't work out because I like the new director Craig Brewer seemed to be a cool guy. And they went like maybe darker with it. But I get it. They hired, I forget his name, but they hired it a real dancer. I remember doing a screen test with Julian Huff. That's right.

And she was phenomenal dancing. And she got me there and she made me look good. Drug you along. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Literally. It threw me around. And I was like, she's going to be great. I don't have fun with her doing that screen test.

But anyway, I remember like, go with God, that's great. And I got paid to do it. Oh, what? I felt like I'm like, I probably would have not been able to dance or sing properly. But ego-wise, that hurts because it's like, oh, my God, they don't want me so badly that they're going to pay me anyway. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, totally. I remember feeling okay with it. I got to pay, I got to not do this thing.

I don't have to sing and dance. They got out of it. Why would they do that? Because they need you committed. And then likewise, they can sue you for that money if you don't. don't show up. So it's like a mutually assured annihilation kind of situation. That's exactly what it is.

But the only time it happened to me where it was really great is I got fired from Will and Grace. Really? Yeah, episode of Will and Grace in a table read. Come on. That's a crazy story. Because they always tell you you're not going to get fired at the table read. But it happens.

I mean, I go further and said that they kind of begged me to do it. I was too busy. I'm doing this show. I didn't want to do it. Friends with Sean Hayes. Finally, I'll do it. All to come in and just get fired up at the table read.

But they were like, you know, of course they're going to still pay you. I was like, okay, that's kind of cool. And then that same week, Netflix calling there, like, do you want to be a guest judge on this cooking show and it's X amount of money? So I just remember that day being on there, me, like, oh, wow, I'm getting paid for Will and Grace right now and this cooking show. Worked out. Fuck, I finally got my dream come true. Yeah, double-dippins.

That's great. Great. We share in common that we've both been directed by Lake Bell. I love Lake Bell. She's the bad. I was the star yesterday. Did you? She's the best.

She's the best. You got to go to her auction thing next time she does this auction. I love to. Okay, I love auctions. I never miss an auction. Well, they were right. These people that told us, you're a fucking champ. Yeah.

Yeah, season five, obviously, just started airing. Just came out, yeah, last week. So exciting. I know you've already been asked this, and I think you're smart and saying that the deep is a tricky character to try to have his own show because you need some kind of redemption. He's not a fun character if he's redeemed in some word way. Right, right, right, right. But with all that said, how do we keep doing the deep? Man, I'll tell you, I pitched them a spinoff.

Like, three years ago, Evan and Kripke, you know, like, loose pitch. Like, over, like, email or maybe he was in person. Like, it was, I mean, in hindsight, it might have been before Barry, but it was like, what if he's, like, a shitty actor? He's kicked out, and he's like a D-list act, you know, trying to do, like, some really... That's funny. But it was, like, you see him shooting the bad movie, like, Tropic Thunder, but it's like Barry.

It was kind of all over the place pitch. But I was like, what if he has to come to L.A. and we make fun of the industry type of thing. They liked it. Like, yeah, but like, you know, now it's like no one's opening the wallets to do many things. But how do we keep them? He doesn't have to be fully redeemed, but it would be fun to, like, do a half hour comedy. All right.

Well, you probably have other plans, but I don't hate the idea of you playing the deep in your free time. You could be president. It could be like idiocracy. That's a good idea. Yeah, yeah. You know? Yeah. All right.

All right. Well, Chase, what a delight. This has been so fun. Everyone was right. Pleasure man. And everyone should check out the boys. Sincerely, if you don't watch the boys. Who was I just talking to you that said they had a, oh, fucking Tyler outside.

I couldn't believe Tyler. Get Tyler on it. I'm like, what do you hate to laugh? Tyler would love it. Oh, he loves it. You guys are fans, man. No, thank you. Oh, huge.

And then our friend. Anna. Anna. She loves it. We got screeners and I tried to give them to her. That's illegal. It didn't work anyway. So she was pissed.

Yeah. Leave that in or not. That'll be like with the slavery thing, whether you're honest. Okay. I'm going to decide later. Now it got to stay in. All right. Great meeting you.

Nice to meet you too, man. Good luck with everything. Thank you guys. I sure hope there weren't any mistakes in that episode, but we'll find out when my mom, Mrs. Monica, comes in and tells us what was wrong. We were just discussing what your nephew, right? Yes, what my nephew will call me. Yeah, because the girls called Carly T.T.

Yes, which is so cute. And is there a permanent name now. I know. No, I forget her name's Carly sometimes. Yeah, I only call. I call her TT. I call her TT to her face. I like it. It's so cute. It's so much more endearing. Exactly. Nicknames are always than non-nicknamed. Sorry. Well, not always, but sure. Well, if they're mean, those are slurs. You do occasionally meet someone. You're like, oh, that's your nickname. What's your real name? Like Blaze, you know. Gunner. Gunner. Oh, guys, those aren't nicknames. Okay. Those are like a pseudonym. Those are like they took that on as their persona. Nondiplores?

Mondeplores. Monde plures. But a nickname, a shortened or a cute version of your name or something people call you to love you is so, it's the best. Best. Dad, I cherish dad. Yeah, that's the best you got. Aaron calls me. No one else does.

Well, two people do. Three people do, including Aaron. Yeah, yeah. MTT sometimes. Yeah. Uh-huh. And you sometimes. And Kristen and me.

I'm sad Robb's never called me dad or daddy. Oh, Rob, you don't have to call him daddy, okay? HR. I'll go with daddy. I'll do. I just think that would be such a wonderfully uncomfortable thing for you and I to have as a bit that in public he called me daddy. You would be like, what an unhealthy work environment. Exactly, exactly.

In front of a guest. Do you want your coffee, Daddy? Daddy, are you ready for your coffee? I mean, the age gap is such that they might think you're my son. Well, you do look quite young, Rob. Wobby-wob. All over you again, Rob? 37.

Yeah, no problem. No problem. 13. 14. I'm 51. No, you're 12 years older than me, so you're 13 years old than Rob. Look, he's 37. I'm 51.

That's 14. But you're January. Although. I'm June. I'm almost 30. Yeah, June. He's close. January.

Okay, I have a funny story. Oh, great. So. you may remember that I was asked to go speak at Delta's class about Malala. Yeah. Yeah, which was a little stressful because I'm not an expert on Malala. I certainly did my research. So she did a report, right?

They had a whole section on her. They had read her. So cool. Maybe both of her books. And, you know, they really got into everything that happened in Pakistan. Yeah. And then so Ms. Brown, who I love, shout out Ms. Brown. She invited me to talk about Malala.

And then of course it evolved into like the boys asking me what sports stars we interviewed, which was hilarious. It's so funny is I couldn't on the spot, I couldn't think of anyone. Tom Brady. Well, I got to him. Okay. But mind you, we've had so many. Like, I couldn't remember Shaq.

Oh, Lord. Right. I was just like, one of the ones was like, you ever interview any sports? You know. Yeah. So, Wayne Wade. Yeah. There's been a million.

But I did. I was like, oh, yeah. Well, I've done a lot. And I'm like, I've done a lot of NBA players. I know I've done some men of L players. And then I go, oh, Tom Brady. That's the one I came up with. Okay.

And this kid literally. I wish we could say Simone Biles, but she won't come on. We would have said it. I'd remember her the most. Yep. But this is, I said Tom Brady and this boy shot out of his chair. He couldn't sit in his chair. He said, he said, you have you, Tom.

Like, it was so funny. Anyways, that was that. Yeah. I did that. So Lincoln's whole seventh grade class is doing a whole segment on for, I think, literature. English or whatever, a whole segment on podcasting. Like for, I guess, months they're going to learn about podcast. And then I think they're all going to make a podcast, right?

Oh, she has such a leg up. Well, so one of the teachers said, would, you know, would your dad be willing to come in and talk? Yes. And then so Lincoln asked me and I said, yeah, of course. And so it was approaching. And then the night before Lincoln was such a ball of nerves as I totally. totally understand. I mean, the notion of one of my parents coming into my seventh grade,

I just... And you're a live wire. I'm a live wire. But I just would have been terrified. Like, you know, for so many reasons, like, hey, I hope they think they're cool. If they're not, I got to fight everyone. Like, if you think my mom, if you're mean to my mom, now I got to fight everyone. If anyone's, like, makes fun of you. Oh, or makes fun of my mom. Everyone's dead. Okay. Okay. So anyways, so I know it's stressful. And I'm already honored she's even open to letting I guess that says a lot. But the night before, she was like, okay, you cannot wear those, your light colored Levi's that have a hole in the back.

That's fair. And I was like, okay. It's inappropriate. You cannot wear a headband. And I go, okay, what do you think people are going to think? You know, I like to poke. What do you think, you know. What did she say?

Just don't wear it. It's drawing too much. And then I said, okay, well, I'll just wear a head. You cannot wear a hat. You can't imagine Monica, what this list became. of things I couldn't and could not wear. Yeah. Was it all aesthetic base or was it like you can't say this or you can't?

No, it was all aesthetic. Well, okay, we had this bit going. This backs up a whole week. She, they, thank goodness, the teacher urged the students to write out questions like last week. And so Lincoln said, I want to hear like, what are your answers going to be to one of these questions? And also, I don't know why we've been watching a. good deal of British stuff. I don't know. That's in the mix. So I said, okay, let's workshop this and you be Lincoln in this situation, okay? This is a week ago. And I said,

asked me how many episodes we've done. Yes. Mr. Lincoln's dad. Yeah. How many episodes of your podcast have you made? A thousand. That's a lot, isn't it? Eintn't it? Ew. It's a lot. It's a lot of episodes, isn't it? What do you think, isn't it? It's so aggressive. It's so aggressive. It's so aggressive and loud. Why did it get so loud? I think what made it so funny for both of us is if anyone might do that. You know, there is just a thin threat of that. That's what makes it good. Of course, I would never do that. Are you sure? But she has seen me act bizarre enough that I'm sure some tinge of her is like, Jesus, is he think he's going to do this? I'm going to laugh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I keep hitting her with it in it all week. And then and then I am told all these things I got to wear.

Okay, so then you and I recorded someone. We had to record someone earlier than we normally do so that I could get there. That's why we did it. Oh, that makes sense. Yeah, we had a 10 a.m. I know, and I didn't know why, but I figured it was just because it wasn't yesterday. It was two days ago. Two days ago.

Okay, so I left that interview and I think those wearing a hat. I don't even know what the hell was going on. But the point is, I went upstairs and I put on like all the appropriate approved clothes. And then I got in front of the mirror. And Monica, I have never fretted over my hair this much. in my life. Way worse than if I'm like on my way to Kimmel, which I do my own hair when I'm on a talk show.

I was in there like, fuck, it's just that. I was like wrestling with it. And I was like, fuck, it does not. Oh, that's so important. I don't embarrass her. Oh, it's so cute because this, yeah, I imagine like if I'm, if I'm putting myself as a little girl and I, my dad's coming to class and I'm like, oh my God, dad, a show's on his way. He's do not, just don't, don't, don't.

But then now cut to however many years. you know, 20 years later since I'm so young. Yeah. That if I heard that he was like worried about his hair because I said that, like, oh, man. Yeah, yeah. Anywho. How did it go? Oh, so it was not just her class, you know, it was the entire seventh grade.

How many people? 88. Okay. Yeah. So, first of all, I got there greeted by one of the teachers. They're all so awesome. Okay. This is so lucky.

I'm just so delighted with the school that Lincoln goes to. Yeah. And of course, they want to know everything. They want to know what kind of show it is. It's an interview show. What makes a good interviewer? And then they want to know the mechanics of it, right? Like you record for how long, what's the editing process, like all that kind of stuff.

But at any rate, they did open it up to questions. And again, this is the incredible, like I can't even compute what happens at this school because it's all girls. Oh, that's important to say. It's all girls. Yeah. One hand after another, boom, every girl had a question. They're so confident. And they're just question, question, question.

It was really, really fun. And Lincoln sat in the directly front row in front of me. And I said to her, I'm like, I thought you were more of like a burnout like I was. I thought you'd be in the back row trying to hide. And she was front and center. Yeah. And then I took a big swing. Oh.

Uh-huh. What'd you do? I got asked. I can't remember the exact wording of it, but I got asked, like, have I ever gotten really emotional in one of the interviews or something like that, yeah. Wow, that's an astute question. Yeah, but it was, it was a little, I wish I could remember the particulars. However the question was, it led me to, and as soon as I started talking about, I was like, this is a disaster, but I'm pot committed. I've already begun talking about it, which was Dove Cameron.

Oh, I thought I'm going to talk about your mom. No, just as bad. I said, does anyone know Dove Cameron? All of them know Deft Cameron. Okay. Right? Well, they should start listening. Well, they're young.

They're young. I was going to ask, how many do you convert? Like, honestly, we need them. That's the age. I'd say of this 88, maybe six are in. Yeah. That's pretty good. Pick up six listeners.

I wish you. Okay. So they all knew Dove. They all knew Dove. And I'm explaining the episode. And I told them what happened with her? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Her father died by suicide. Yes. And she thought he didn't love her. Yeah, it's horrified. It's so sad. And then she found this box. Yeah.

And she found this baby book. And in it he had written my best friend. Yeah. That's a sad story. And then as I'm telling it, of course, I'm back in the moment that I totally broke down. The first time we heard the story. Such a, yeah. And then here is the biggest, this could have been career ending for me as a parent.

And I said, and I was very emotional because. because this little person's my best friend. Oh, and then what? Did she love it? That could have been really embarrassing for her. No. And she looked at me and smiled so vague. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then I rode home and I got another helmet. And then I came back and I picked her up when we were home together. And she said she was really proud of me. Oh. All told it went well. But high stakes. Again, I don't get nervous to go speak in front of people. And I was, I was very nervous.

You should. Yeah. I'm glad you took it seriously. Her only complaint was the way I was calling on people. I got a little too animated when I was calling me. You! Oh my God, great. Backro.

You know that I was getting, I was getting pumped. Especially if someone seemed shyer. I was like really trying to celebrate them for. That's the worst because they want they like, they're already nervous and then you're making a big. Okay. Listen. So we had that day, the interview that we did in the morning that you were just coming from was also a very. I told them about it.

Oh my God. Because they asked me if I ever interviewed a killer. Well, that we can't tell people that. Well, I guess we can. Guys, there's an interesting episode. I said I'm not interviewed a killer that I know of, but one hour ago. Yeah. And I told them that.

Okay. And then that episode, um, okay, also has any parent like reached out like, hey, please don't ever. Hey, it was a little inappropriate for you to ring up. Well, I was debating those things because I got to. into real dice. I did paint myself into a corner really quick. I've had like a panic because they asked me who I'd want to interview that's dead.

And I was like, oh my God, we just had this kind of debate on the podcast. And all of a sudden I'm saying I'd interview Jesus. And this is a Catholic school. Well, they probably like that more. But I was saying why I want to interview him is I'd love to be able to look at him and see like, is this guy really? I was just honest. You said that? I did.

I said, and then I realized later after I had given that answer that I just assume I'll be talking to him in English. And I remember, this guy doesn't speak English. I'm saying all this in front of it. And the teachers are around and I'm like, sorry, you go. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I said, and then I realized, oh, he doesn't speak English. And then I said, but then I realized, oh, well, that would be the proof.

If this, if he magically just started speaking English, I'd be like, well, this guy really is the son of God. I said all that. That's crazy. It was an hour and 40 minutes. Okay. That's a long time to get me talking where I'm not going to. But the teachers did not mind it. I was like checking in with them a little bit.

And I think they're just like, yeah, we're here to debate this. Okay. Well, that's cool. Did you mention John Bonnet Ramsey? She was an important part of that conversation. I did not bring up John Bonay. But if you were like, you know, there was a girl about your age. Yeah, yeah.

Well, I want to look out at you guys. I can't help but think of. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's awesome that you did that. I'm just basing it on, like, Lincoln's hip. She knows what's going on. Yeah, she does.

I'm just granting the rest of them the same, like, cognitive aptitude as her. But it's not, but it's not, okay, what I would push back a second on. They can be smart and thoughtful and curious. But a lot, there is a wide range of how exposed that age is. There's a wide range. But I don't, they're all watching Netflix. They're all listening to the news. Like, they know what's going on in the world.

They know there's murderers. They know people do and don't believe in God. Like, they're not eight-year-olds. And I just, I always hated being pandered to. I know. That's what I'm saying. You're doing some projection because you, you hated that. Possibly.

And also some percentage, yes. Did you bring up anything sexual? Nothing sexual. Oh, my God. Thank you. Yeah. No, I, that's. It's an all-girls school.

I'm an old dude. No, I was somehow, I think goodness didn't say anything. I didn't say anyone was hot or anything. Oh, my God. Not the students, the guess. None of our guests. I didn't say any of our guests were hot. You know it was the sexiest guess we ever had?

What have I said that? Oh, my God. I know nobody asked, but. Yeah. Nobody asks us, but I know you're thinking it. Anyway, I am, I am a firm believer in the fact that the kids know way more than you think they do. and it's okay to talk about things. If they get to see murders and stuff,

then we can talk about everything. I guess that's true. I think the whole like protect people from topics is the way to navigate topics. But I also don't think they're going to be protect. Like, I think just because I didn't talk to my parents about certain things didn't mean I was like sheltered in the world. You talk to your friends about it and you figured out.

That's always my point. It's like, yeah, you found out all of them, but you found out from peers. And it would have been cool to have the parents' perspective. as an adult who's been through some stuff. Yeah. Well, I'm glad it went well. I do think you failed on a, like, big opportunity to get us some listeners.

Well. Yeah. Armchair. Did you bring up Armchair Anonymous? Yeah, I think, I think Lincoln did. See, she's doing the Lord's Work, Ding, Ding, Bing. Sure. For us.

Stay tuned for more Armchair expert. If you dare. Well, what's problematic about Armchair Anonymous, I just, you know, I say like we do a show. I was explaining Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays. And I was talking about our workflow, you know, interviews with listeners. Yeah. We don't have a single prompt that's really cool to tell them about Armchair Anonymous. We want to talk about Dicey Water.

But they're all listening. Well, the funny thing is that is the show they would want to listen to. Yeah, exactly. But I wasn't really free to promote it because, again, the topic. I wouldn't have felt comfortable. No, you just say, well, because there's one topic that pops in your mind all the time. But we have others. It's like.

Evacuation. Yeah, you don't have to do that one either. All I could think about when they wanted to know what the show was about is just all I kept thinking about is the guy who cut his own penis off. I was like, don't tell that. Your brain does that. You're like, fucking whatever you do do not mention. It's like the second that question was asked, I just thought of that penis thing.

I was like, and that's all I could think about is don't say that example. Okay. Well, would you, would that story have popped into your mind? No, never. Which one would have popped into your mind? I guess I would have been like, oh, tell us about a bad job interview or tell us about a meat queue. Oh, yeah, we do have a nice one. Yeah.

There are definitely ones you could have said. Yeah, water parks is this week. Water parks. That's great. But didn't nasty stuff happen at the water park? Well, you don't have to tell them what happens. They're really funny stories. That all end nasty.

People your age tend to listen and love them. You just give them the links and then have them click. In fact, so Lincoln is running for an office at school. And I haven't told her this yet, but when she wins, I hope maybe like, I'm just like hoping she's in charge of the announcements or something. Okay. And then she can play clips. and slowly convert a whole school.

Yeah, yeah. You got to think ahead like this. Exactly. Future leaders. You got to think ahead like this. I look out of that audience of young ladies and I was like, these girls got it. I know.

They're such badasses. So cool. I was in the audience. I saw myself. She was in the dead back row. Oh, no. I have a question. I have two questions.

One was legit. She was the second question. Why haven't you interviewed me? When are you going to interview me? And I'm like, all you got to do is when a new. Nobel Peace Prize. I got a seat open for you. So she's funny. Later, second round of questioning. Oh, boy. Right back at it. When am I going to be on the show?

Oh, she didn't know that the, okay. I'm like, this is me. I'm looking at me. Yeah. Is this Lincoln get along with her? Yeah, I asked her about her specifically. I'm like, I like that girl in the back row. And she's like, yeah, she's got, you know. Problems. No, no, no, no. She's. She's. She's. She's. considered the bad kid. And I guess we had this, but we never said it this way. But they have friendship groups. Oh, yeah.

And they're like delineated and everyone knows what friendship group they're in. And then there's migration. Like someone will try to join a different friendship group and then they all sit together and stuff. Yeah, lunch. Yeah. So that gal was not in her friendship group. Right.

Which is not to say she doesn't like her. Yeah. She doesn't dislike the people not in her friendship group. Yes. It's complex, man. Oh, I remember. The little monkeys. They remember it.

Remember it. It still exists. Yeah. It still exists. It's actually really funny because I have a few new friends, which is weird. You know, as an adult, it's weird to have new friends. Yeah. And I have a few new friends and, like, they, they have friendship groups and I have a friendship group.

And it's like kind of weird to like. Cross-pollinate. Yeah. Uh-huh. And. I guess it just never ends. Like you're like, oh, but would they like me? Well, because, you know, the podcast I'm currently obsessed with.

One person's in that podcast? Well, Aaron and Sarah's podcast. Yeah. They're friends with one of my new friends. Okay. And it's so strange. Are you going back unless you are? How many, like what's your routine right now?

I don't know. It's like every night? I feel weird about it. Yeah, you've already expressed. I don't want this to get back to them, but it will because we speak clearly. Uh-huh. But. You're like peak obsession right now.

And I know what I know, this is no offense to Aaron and Sarah. The podcast is great. Very, I mean, obviously, I find it extremely enjoyable. Yeah. But what I think is like, oh, I'm self-soothing somehow and I don't know what, I don't know why. Mm-hmm. Like, I don't know what's causing that. Yeah, and why that's the salve.

Yes. I think it probably has to do with moving into this big house and being by myself. Okay. Maybe that, like, I have friends around, in quotes, around my house. You know, just, like, makes the house more lively. So you have it playing throughout the house and you walk from room to room. I have that ability. I have speakers, but I just do carry my, I do know how.

Oh, okay. But I have found myself, I just carry my. phone around. Have you ever put the speaker? Oh yeah I do for music I do when I have friends over and stuff when I'm entertaining for your new friendship group yeah but maybe because it doesn't feel like they're with me if they're in the wall. If you're not holding them. Yeah and it's interesting. I think it's an old SAV if I could and I don't know the show. What I know is um and I say salve but I just have I say SAV. I know You make it the L silent. So I don't know what's right.

Probably you. No, probably you. So I know Aaron and Sarah. I've known Sarah for 22 years, I guess. And I like both of them so much. And so just let me say that. Yeah. I've never listened to the show.

So I don't really, I have no position to have this opinion. But I'm going to have it anyways. You know, they're very popular girls. They're like hot popular girls. And I think your salve was like, Friends. Friends is very hot popular kids. Yeah. Well, you mean people who liked friends or the friends? The friends. I mean, they're hot and popular. I mean, the whole America loves them and they have got great style and the new hairdoes.

Yeah, they're also weirdos. Like, Phoebe's a weirdo and like Ross is a paleontologist. Yeah. Hot one. I think they represent very popular. Okay. It's certainly not Seinfeld where it's like you've got Costanza and Richardson, whatever his name was. Yeah. Kramer. Kramer.

I, okay, here's the, here's, I don't think I agree with you, but I tangentially agree with you. Okay. In that what I was so attracted to with the friends is, is their intimacy, how much they loved each other unconditionally, how, like, safe. that group of people was. And I wanted that so badly. Potentially, Aaron and Sarah are doing a similar thing. I mean, I'm coming up with this real time. Maybe because they're sisters, right?

So there is this just like deep bond intimacy that nothing, I mean, they're mean to each other. You know, they're really like kind of sometimes I'm like, oh my God, this is wild. Yeah, they talk to each other like siblings talk. Yeah. And I don't have, I mean, obviously I have a younger brother, but I don't have a, sister and I definitely, I always wish I had that. So maybe it's a little bit of that. Like, oh, I wish I had this. I mean, I have friends, but it's not the same. There's a lot of things you'll have in life. You're not going to have a sister. That's the thing. There are a lot of things

I can make happen for myself. Yeah, I don't want to limit you, but I do want to tell you you're not going to have a sister that's your age. Unless. What could happen? Separated at birth. Reunited. Yeah. What if Nirmie calls. you. He's like, I heard you. And I guess Monica. Hey, that was pretty good. Whoa, that was pretty good. I don't want to hear anymore. I know. I knew you didn't want to. Weird. Going home to see her for Mother's Day weekend. Oh, nice. Yeah. Oh, one last thing. Go ahead. Last Friday, Lincoln had the day off school. Uh-huh. So we went to the go car track and we were on our way home from the go car track. And we were on Los Felis Boulevard. And I said, oh, look, here. I go, oh, look, here's Monica. We're coming up on

Monica. I spotted your car from like 100 yards back. So we were definitely coming up to get next to you. And it was what timing. The universe smiled on us because right as we were catching you, an ambulance was coming through the intersection. So you were trying to get over in the right lane, but I had just slid into the right lane. And the look you gave me real time. And Link and I were both staring at you. And you like, turned in you fucking you're like what the hell looked with your eyes and we were laughing hysterically and then it was you guys and i then i laughed but i was still like go like there the ambulance is trying to come yeah and it was fine the ambulance went in the other lane really stressed me out it wasn't in our lane it was i know but still you were doing what you're supposed to do but i was

there i and i was like who is this fucking asshole yeah and it was your friends and getting also preventing me from getting over and it was you. How much do you think seeing her little face smiling buffeted? Of course it. Okay. Yeah, but it was just me and I was waving when you like? No, I also knew. I mean, once it was you, I was like, oh, they're fucking with me.

So it was, I would have still been, I was still would have laughed. Okay, okay. But I also was like, man, but like, what if they don't get to, what if someone dies, you know, because the ambulance didn't get there because Dax wanted to say hi to me. Yeah, that didn't happen. Nothing happened with the ambulance for the record. I love how rare your car is because I always know if it's you. Yeah.

Do you know my license plate? No, I don't need to. Oh, okay. Yeah. Because no one has, I've never seen your car in that color. Really? No. I've seen it a couple times and I always like, I like that.

All right. Well, I mean. Let's do some facts. Okay, yes, this is for Chase. Chase Crawford. Chase Crawford. What a likable fucking guy. Very likable.

Oh, so likable. You can tell you, no wonder he's gotten along with everybody. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Got a lot. He had a lot of endorsements, like, from people. Mm-hmm. Tell the audience about your, okay.

Wow. I thought that would be something you would share for sure. Fine. Okay. There's a scene and gossip girl. I forget what season. And it's not like that sexual of a scene, but he's in a, In a car.

Well, they're making out. And like, they're obviously like, they're either post-quittal, freak, or just, they're just, they're just messing around in a car. Him and this older woman. Oh, maybe that's. Oh, wow. I predicted that I would be a cougar one day. Anyway, when I used to watch the show, I loved that scene. And I would watch it multiple times because I thought it was so hot.

I thought he was so hot. He had, like, his hands on her. And I thought it was really hot. You like to tell us what his hands were doing? I love hands. Yeah. What are you going to do? What can you do?

Yeah. Anyway, speaking of, when was Ziegers, your friend Zegers, Kevin Ziegers on Gossp Girl? He was on from 2009 to 2011. He was in 10 episodes across seasons three and four, Damien Dahlgard. Sounds very rich. Yeah, he was a bad boy. Rich bad boy. Drug dealer.

Zegers is now a full-blown cowboy. Do you know this? From his show, right? Well, I think that's where it started. Oh. But now he's genuinely, he was just gone for like four days, not for the show, not for money to help another rancher. Oh. He was castrating bulls and roping and doing the whole.

He loves the whole thing. He's doing like the shit that's gnarly. Wow, good for him. Castrating. No, thank you. Yeah, actually not good for it. Yeah. Yucky.

Oh, pulling balls out. Ew. Why does he want to do that? He thinks he's like, I need to be more rugged. No, I think he got a bug for it. Wow. He was, he got invited, I think, from Taylor to go do this like showing cutting horses. You know, cutting horses, they can separate out one cow from the herd.

So they're really agile and they kind of get into this back and forth. They pick a cow. They try to separate it from the herd and the cow's trying to get away from that. So the horse is constantly going left, right, trying to outflank them. Like he's covering them in basketball. So to stay on that horse is pretty wild. Like, you got to be a good rider to be a riding a horse cutter. And so there was showing horse cutting horses, I presume to sell at some auction or something.

And Ziegers was demonstrating the horse cutting on this horse. And I watched the video. I was like, by God, he's really fucking doing it. Horses are having a moment. Oh, yeah, you rode horses. And I caution people to use. Yeah. Be careful on them.

And Zegers, I guess, is a cowboy. And that untoldeal. Hold on horses. Uh-huh. And Clooney's beer is all about horses. Yeah. And Sarah Foster has a horse. She does.

Yeah. I know that its name is Rolex. How much did Pepperdine buy that property for? Pepperdine University's main 138 acre Malibu Campus land was donated. Hold on. Take one second. 138 acres on the PCH. I know.

Okay, go ahead. Donated in 1968 by the Adamson Ringe family. That's the best way to get property. Exactly. Okay. Wow, 138 acres right there. That's worth $400,000 million if it's just flat. I mean, there's nothing even on it.

Wow. How many debts per square mile on the PCH? It says, while traffic safety data for the PCH is generally measured in fatalities per mile or total crashes rather than per square mile. The 21 mile stretch of PCH through Malibu has experienced a high concentration of fatalities, with roughly 61 deaths reported over the 15 years leading up to late 2024. And no one cares, but I said it briefly in the episode. The problem is, is people are parallel parking on either side of this six lane.

There's a middle turning lane. There's two lanes. People are going 60 miles an hour. And people are making U-turns across all five or six lanes. to find the beach parking spot. I know. Yeah, it's a bad motorcycle in particular. It's like probably the worst stretch for motorcyclists.

Oh, my God. The movie that Chase shot in Turks and Caicos, I'm not sure. But it was probably ripped tide. That would make sense. And then there's also long lost sun. We went to Turks and Caicos. We did. Loaded the haunting of Molly Hartley.

I'm just reading a lot now, like a lot of his credit. But I kind of think it was rippedide. It makes a lot of sense. What wouldn't make sense is a movie called The Mountain Escape. That would be, but you never know. You don't know, but that would make no sense. You never know. Okay.

Now, not to do this. I know I don't love doing this, but I do feel like I have to. Okay. You about to correct me? Yeah, I'm not going to. Go ahead. Okay, so it's Abercrombie and Fitch. Oh, that's fine with me.

I actually am happier. I don't know the real. Well, no. Now you know it right. You can say it right. What is right? Fitch. Fitch, not Finch.

Well, now I'm worried. I'm, oh, my God. Finch is a bird. Yeah, Fitch. But what the fuck is Abercrombie? Abercrombie and Fitch. Yes, great. But what is an Abercrombie?

They're probably people's names. I don't even say, I'm saying it right now, but normally you should know. I don't say Abercrombie. I say Ambercrombie. Oh, you do. You're right. I do. I do.

I say Amber Cromby and Fitch. No, and Finch. Ambercrombie and Finch. It's Scottish surname. Okay. Well, no disrespect to that family, but just what a comical name. I think it's cool. Abercrombie?

I just didn't impress someone. It was like, yeah, we'll call it Amber Cromby and French. Well, no one's calling it that because that's not what. And everyone's like, what? And I like, yeah, it'll work. And it did. Yeah, I was obsessed with it. That's why I knew I was right, but then I second guessed.

I'll tell you when it backfired, Zathura. Like, it's dangerous to name something, something people can't. pronounce. But most people can pronounce Abercrombie. I'm sorry. I don't know. I've not seen the data or the data. Me either. Yeah. I know Zethora was a real struggle. Part of the whole ad campaign was they had bought

like a whole episode of The Apprentice where the task was to get people to know how to pronounce the fucking name of the movie. And I was like, this is not great. That's bad. That's not great. Well, also because Zathura is like, well, could it be Zafiura? Like, people were saying Zathora. Exactly.

And then once they say, oh, no, they were saying it wrong. They're like, fuck it. I can step up to the ticket window. There's six movies. I know I can say the name of this one. I'll say that. I know, but part of me is like, get over yourself. Just like, just say, I want that Z movie.

Like, why would you let it stop you? People have such big egos. Okay. Married guys, you said live 11 years longer. I said that. I don't know what, I was being facetious, I think. They live longer. Yeah.

Studies show on average roughly two to eight years longer than unmarried. Then you add daughters into that mix. You could hit 11. Huh? That's different. Only for men, not for women. Every daughter that a man has on average adds 1.7. I don't know what the crossover.

I don't know. Like if that data is affected by people who have daughters. Yeah. Okay. Now he accidentally, now I'm going to do it to him. Abercrombie and Fitch. he accidentally said season two twice in a sentence

and I think he meant season three when he was talking about the octopus Yeah, that sounds right I mean the epic octopus scene is in season three So yeah Oh, who did they end up hiring for footloose So I think Kenny Wormald That sounds right

He played Yeah This is him Kenny Crombie and Fitch Yeah, he's a real professional dancer Kenny Wormald or Wormald. And the director's Craig Brewer. He might have said Craig Brewer, but I think you said Craig Bryce.

Oh, okay. A lot of things in this fact check. Oh, one thing I want to make clear. My mouth looks kind of weird in this episode. Oh. That's because I have a loss inch of my mouth because that was during my cough attack period. Okay, the season of coughing. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Your coughing era. So that was lozange-based. Okay. I don't want people to think I had like weird Botox. Right. One of our episodes just aired where my sty was very, very evident. Oh, yeah, that was quite evident.

Yeah, you could see it. Yeah, for sure. But, you know. I mean, I don't, I'll live. I just don't like the connection with pink eye. I know. Because pink eye makes you think of poop in your eye, and I don't have any poop in my eye. No.

And I didn't then and I don't now. Okay. Yeah. I had a stye from stress. I know, but also like, I don't think I would have thought it was pink eye. There was a moment where my eyeball was like beat red. I know.

And that it screamed pink eye. I even think someone said, I think my sister said, hey, oh, you got pink eye? Oh. Like, no, I wipe my butt with toilet paper, not my hand, T, T, T. But sometimes you still could get poop particles. I couldn't, but yeah. You're the one that sticks your finger up your butt when you shower. You don't know anything.

Yeah, you've said that aloud. Okay, that's it. Love you. Love you.