Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Emily & Matt Hyland (Emily Burger)

Episode Date: April 8, 2026

Emily & Matt Hyland (Emily, Pizza Loves Emily, Emmy Squared Pizza) are restaurateurs and authors, with Matt a Michelin-recognized chef and culinary creator, and Emily an educator, poet, and mindful movement teacher. Emily and Matt join the Armchair Expert to discuss meeting when Emily was Matt’s college RA, how yoga has been one of the biggest through lines in Emily’s life, and their favorite pizza’s favorite pizza. Matt, Emily, and Dax talk about when THE burger entered the scene, how a difficulty to compartmentalize working together caused their relationship to break down, and the underlying friction that resulted from conflating her identity with his food. Emily and Matt explain getting divorced after opening a restaurant based on their love story, how through therapeutic work healing their dynamic as partners after each remarrying, and the clarity that came from an arrest and a restraining order during a really dark moment.Take printer ink off your to-do list with HP Smart Tank | hp.com/SmartTankCheck Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds: https://www.allstate.com/See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert, experts on expert. I'm Dan Shepard. I'm joined by miniature mouse. Hi there. Boy, y'all, you've been hearing us talking about this burger for eight long years. It's our obsession. It's our religion. It's our life force.

It's our life force. Emily Burger. So today we have Emily and Matt Highlandon who started Emily loves pizza and Emily and Emmy Square and all these yummy restaurants. that serve it. Emily is also a poet and an educator and a mindful movement teacher. And Matt is a chef and a restaurateur. Please enjoy Emily and Matt Hyland. He's an object square.

He's an object. I'm in my Jenny King because you. You look so cute. Hello. Hi. Good to see you. Yes, of course. That's what I'm sitting.

You already spotted it. Well, we have some gifts for you. Oh, my God. Notably. We deserve them, but we'll receive them. I'll take it. Ooh. Oh.

Oh. Let's put on a cereal. Put on every. Oh. God, amazing. First of all, I just love these little squeeze bottles. Yeah. You wouldn't know where to purchase one.

Yeah. So now you have one. You can reuse it. This is so yummy. Yeah. So enjoy. Oh, I can't wait. It's like the mustard squirder at a

cony dog. It is. It is. Or like a Fuddruckers. And so it's like extra meta, you have the sauce behind you. Yeah, I like that. Exactly.

Exactly. Can I give you the rest of our gifts? We kind of decided to. We're so honored to be here. Matt's wife is a chocolatier. Oh, so those are for you. She made special, special bonbons. What?

And my new book is coming out this season, and so I wanted to give one of those to each of you. Are you coming from Santa Fe and you're coming from Austin? Yeah. You guys visit here often or not? Occasionally. Yeah, I love to live. It was like one of my favorite cities.

Growing up in New York, it's so different. We both grew up in New York City. Coming to L.A. It's such a nice treat. It's like a big, beautiful town with the best weather ever and great food. It's so much fun being here. How often do you guys go visit these different locations? Let's start with how many Emily or Emmy or all the different iterations.

Restaurants are there right now. So we still co-own and operate the original Emily in Clinton Hill. Yeah, that's why you got the VIP reservation. Yeah, that was the first one. Is it the best one? That was our intro. What are there now? 21? No, I think it's more like 30.

30. Emmy Squirts, not Emily's. The franchise is called Emmy Square. Correct, yeah. Okay. The West Village is a weird hybrid. It's a hybrid, right? Yeah, so the burger is a little different.

We use the same sauce, but it's a double patty. Yeah, Clinton Hill is definitely the original. Yeah. The burger at the West Village seems to me like it's evolved closer to Clinton Hill over the years. Is that at all true? There's more soupy onions now on the West Village one, which is what I like so much about Clinton. Yeah. But I don't think originally when I went there, they had the soupy onion.

Probably put a little bit less on. It has evolved. We opened in 2017. So it's almost 10 years we opened that one. Right. Yeah. So, like, your menu changes happen and chefs come and go and things like that. But we're pretty hands off with that one more recently. The bigger company owns that one specifically. Matt has come back in to do some corporate chefing, but I'm a silent partner in the Emmy Squared group. So I just basically run the show over at the original from...

Of Fahman. Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately, our chef and our manager are very reliable. You still have to check in all the time with this bigger business that you guys are silent partners in. You get updated and stuff. Yeah. And since they asked me to come back to sort of consult our corporate chef and I will retrain some of the other chefs and comes to new menu items, we're opening one in Greenwich where I grew up, which is very strange.

Oh, yeah. Connecticut? Yeah, like right on Greenwich Avenue, which is like a strange place to. Right town from where you grew up, literally. And it took over a restaurant that I went to growing up. So it's kind of cool. But we'll launch a new menu there. That'll, like, roll into the other 30 locations.

So that'd be like kind of a test kitchen, where you R&D stuff? Yeah, and I'll be living in my mom's basement at that point. Okay. Won't it? Really full circle. Yeah, exactly. Which was the plan if the restaurant fell to the beginning? It's nice to have that backup basement, to be honest.

It's full of crickets. It's great. You guys would open one on the east side of L.A. Santa Monica, I'll tell you, it's like us going to Brooklyn. Duly noted. What I didn't know that Emily pointed out was there's one downtown. In the, what is it? L.A. Nation life?

Is that what it's called? There's one downtown now? Yeah. How long has that been online? A few years? Oh, no, no, no, no one told it. Yeah, because when we've ordered in the past, they will deliver. I don't know why.

They'll deliver from Santa Monica. And it's good, it's still good, but it takes a beating. Yeah, on its driver. You got to really be a diehard Emily Berger. Exactly. I'd like one on Hillhurst. I'm going to be very specific. I like one on Frank Lending, Polbar.

Oh, my God. Yeah, listen up. It's on doors empty, right? Yeah, there is a building there that could use some cute stuff. He'll relay it. Yeah, I'll relate that. Well, start with you, Emily. You're from New Jersey, yeah.

I am, Jersey Girl. And what did your parents do? They were teachers. My mom was a teacher of graduate students for the visually impaired. So she was a sighted person who could actually read and write in Brill, which was pretty cool. That's really cool. How did she stumble into that? That feels very niche.

She did her doctorate at Columbia in special education. I don't actually know the why of that, but she felt very called towards that population. And my dad founded a charter. school in Northern New Jersey and was the principal of that school. Did you attend that school? I did not attend that school, thankfully. Did they meet a Columbia? They met at Columbia. Yeah. And then your parents, you started in Brooklyn but ended up in Greenwich, right? Yeah, so I was born in New York City. Everyone's born at NYU, I guess, in the 80s. I was in New York. Yeah. And then I was in Brooklyn until I was nine. And then my dad grew up in Greenwich, so we moved back up there because

he was sick of living in New York City. And my mother grew up in De Brooklyn. And we lived like 10 blocks from where she grew up. She traveled, obviously, but never left Brooklyn to live. And what did they do? They were both transportation analysts at standard and pores. That's where they met. Okay, again, this is very fucking niche. Your mom reads Braille and their transportation. They specialized in airlines and trains.

So my father would go up and be like, this is why we should not give them this kind of rating like a AAA or AA credit rating. And my mom would go up and be like, no, this is why we should. Oh. A adversaries. But they both worked at standards and pores?

Yeah, standard pores. S&P. And they rank stuff and they say what the quality of their debt is and stuff like that? Exactly. I didn't follow in that path. Yeah, right. So you guys meet in Rhode Island at what school?

Roger Williams. I was Matt's R.A. Oh, you were? I used to key into his room and steals his candy. You were like two years younger than me. I was 18. I was like 20, I thought. Nobody listened to me on the floor.

I was an R.A. for one semester after that. So you were a good student? I was. You were like a type A. Yeah. Still am. Yeah. Still true.

Yep. There was a ruffle of candy. That was the kind of student I was. And you were computer science major? Computer science, yeah. Okay. All of this is hilarious. where you end up. And then you were doing writing and sociology? Oh, yeah. Creative writing.

And when did you first meet? Literally, were you in his dorm room? The second week of spot for you. Yeah. We ate pizza together on the dorm room floor. Three straight pizzas. Yeah, three straight pizza meals. And then it was pretty quick. Pepperoni and olive oil? Pepperine olives is my... It's good. That is good. That is good. That's a deep cover. I could get that. What's yours? Do you know hers? Well, no, I know what they ate on their first date.

That was our first. Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah. We were there. Man, this was credible. That's not hard to find. Okay. Oh, you're right. So you guys graduate in 2004.

And do you already know by the time you graduate, you are not going to pursue sociology and you are not going to pursue computer science? Yeah, I was going to drop out junior year and go to culinary school. And then my mother and Emily convinced me you're already there junior year. Why would you drop out now? Yeah. And that's obviously a great idea. Yeah.

I majored in creative writing, actually. So I wound up applying and getting into graduate school at Brooklyn College for my MFA in poetry. And then Matt got into culinary school at the Institute of Culinary Education. So we came to the city. Which is unfortunately known as ICE. Yes. It is unfortunately. Yeah, yeah. They have a campus here in Pasadena now. They're like, we got to change it. That might need a rebrand. Rebred. It was like, oh, I'm going to read this interview with you for ice. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, oh yeah, they need a different acronym. Or just drop the acronym. Okay, so yeah, you guys are together 2001. You graduate 2004. And then for the next three years between

and 04 and 07, you're getting your masters and you're going to ice to be an agent and throw people What is a culinary program entail? I have no clue. The one I went to is only six months. It was just more of like, here's your basic skills.

Just throw you into the wild and kind of get wrecked in a New York City kitchen. I was passionate about cooking and food, but I had no technical skills. So I went there and learned everything even like how to heat up the pan correctly to put the oil. So they really start from the basic.

How does one heat up a pan correctly? You don't just throw it on the fucking burner? Oh, you do. Oh, okay. But, like, you know, it's like how hot you want before you put your oil in. Okay, okay, okay. I got you. There's nuances.

I was like, we're not raising slowly the temperature, are we? You want to dedicate a good 45 to an hour. Or you want that oil to shimmer. Shimmer? You need that oil to shimmer. I know about that. I know a little bit. Just a little bit.

How to clean cast irons, you know, it's always important. Is there longer programs in six months? Okay. People can go for years, no? Yeah, if you want to go to, like, CIA upstate New York, that's another good CIA. Why are they all like this? ICE CIA.

The Homeland Security is a great program out of... You specialize in omelets. So, yeah, you can go like four years, like at the actual college. But I picked the six-month-one because I kind of wanted to get into the restaurants. While I was in culinary school, I did like staging for a few nights of different places, too. With staging? You go and work for free for a night to see how a kitchen operates because every kitchen operates so differently with a different chef and different ways to prep things and cook things. So it's kind of like has a giant restaurant to it, has a tiny restaurant to it.

and you kind of go for a night and just watch your service, and they'll give you some onions to chop while you're doing it. And then how does this interest lead you ultimately to pizza? That's where your obsession lands you, right? Yeah, so, you know, it's kind of getting burned out of just regular cooking, and I took like a year off, and then you were going to school for being a principal, right? I was in yoga school at that point. Oh, you're at a school, that's right.

And then the pizza place, Sotakasa, which is still there. It's on Atlantic Avenue and Smith. In Brooklyn. They were just opening that week. I walk in. I was like, I don't know how to make pizza, but, like, I've always wanted to. Yeah. And I had experience helping open restaurants and pizza guys, like, really aren't chefs.

So I could kind of come in there and help just be like, this is a better chefy thing to do than how you just make pizza. And then Luca has like my pizza mentor. He taught you the why of pizza? Yeah. What is the why of pizza? The simplicity of it, right? Making the original form of pizza, like the Neapolitan pizza was great because every pizza is a replica of that pizza. And then like there's a replica and then a replica.

And then all of a sudden you have like a Detroit pie or something that doesn't even look like the original. It's like, why is the original the original? How did these clones come out of it, basically? Yeah, and why was the originally original? The Italians were trying to accomplish what? It's basically like peasant food. So the guys would get off the boats, they'd get around red pie, they'd put their fish on it and kind of roll it up like a burrito,

eat it like street food. Right. That's why marinara is called marinera sauce. It's like the seafood. Oh. Oh, like marine marinari? That's interesting. You would hate fish pizza.

I wouldn't fuck with it. He's scared of fish. Yeah, I can't get down like fish. But I remember the day he came home from one of the early, days at Sotacasta, and it really did feel like he put his hands on that dough, and he was like, this is what I want to do. And we had had this kind of fantasy of like, one day we'll open a restaurant. And the conditions in our life were so that we were like, let's do this. Now let's jump in and what's the worst that happens. And now we're sitting here with you. Let's go to your yoga

instruction because that's what's happening. So you've picked up a master's and you are teaching. Yes. And then you're also learning to be a yoga instructor. What did that interest stem from? I was an athlete my whole life. I went to college to play basketball. And then I quit basketball my freshman year very quickly and discovered that trifecta of beer, pizza, pot and gained a lot of weight was really unhealthy. And by time I got to the end of graduate school, I was very obese and really struggling and very medicated and that sort of thing.

And my sister brought me to a yoga class and encouraged me. And I got there. And it was like, this is something I can do. I don't feel judged. I feel safe and held and kept showing up. And so it's been one of the biggest through lines in my life and was really the lens through which I approached the ethos of the restaurant in terms of my work with it, which I think was really valuable. What would you say if you had to stereotype people that are drawn to yoga? I've attended some yoga classes.

I've probably done 20 in the last 26 years I've lived here. Okay. And there's a vibe. And I'm curious what the connective tissue is. It sounds like it answered a whole host of things. Holistically changed your life, not just, oh, I want to get it. in shape. So would it be fair to say people that are drawn to it are looking for some kind of holistic experience? I think it's been really appropriated and watered down in our culture. It came

through California in like aerobics workout culture in the 1970s. And so it started to really become this thing that's like hot power exercise. But, bickrum. Yeah, the physical practice is just one-eighth of what it means to practice the eight-lims path of yoga. So it is a philosophical way of living not just posture practice, and that's been grossly misinterpreted. What is it grounded in, like, what ancient text, or is it an offshoot of some other religion? It's not a religious practice as much as a philosophical practice. So the yoga sutures of Patanjali is kind of the text. It's the threads of all of the strings of what it means to practice. And it's yoga Shittavriti Narodaha means yoga is the quieting of all the changing states of the

mind. So the work of yoga is to quell the thinking mind. It's, not to be able to like do some crazy arm balance and a matching set on Instagram. If that's an added bonus of it, great. Sure, yeah. And I don't claim to be any sort of expert, but just growing in that world and trying to do my duty as a white woman of privilege who runs a yoga studio to not be appropriating and to be aware of how I've been brought up on it and the impact it's had on me as a person has been life-changing, but I think is slightly problematic in our society.

But who am I to? I think in India, too, they look at yoga as a white person thing. Maybe now they might. Like, it's so much bigger in America, like a cultural, than a cultural phenom. I mean, it's just kind of been here for a long time. It's kind of like pizza if you're Italian, literally. Like, I think Italians look at American, like, they have more pizza than anyone could imagine in every single shape. Somehow it came from here, but look what they've gone bananas.

There's a weird parallel between pizza. I think it's like sushi in America too, right? Like, everything's spicy, crunchy rolls. They're delicious, but definitely some of the Japanese person would be like... That's not sushi. Yeah. We like the McDonald's stuff. By the way, I'm here for it.

I love a spicy. tuna crispy rice. I love that, yeah. Okay, so you get married in 2007. After seven years, I guess you've been together, 2001. And then you start the first restaurant, which is just Emily, in 2012? Oh, 2014. We just celebrated 12 years operationally. Okay, so you knew you wanted to make pizza and you knew you wanted to do what? What were you wanting to accomplish with a restaurant? I wasn't. I feel like, I dragged her into it. Oh, you didn't drag me. I very much got pulled into that space. I withdrew from the graduate program I was in studying to become a school building leader in New York City. And I'd resigned from my job as a public school teacher, was not happy.

And so I was teaching yoga, two classes a week, making no money. That seemed like a place of possibility, but also like what the heck. And he was working as a line cook making no money. And so again, the time felt like if we're going to do it, let's jump in and try this. Can I ask where the fuck did you get the capital? It sounds like you were barely paying your rent. How did you get the capital to start something? Matt's dad died and he inherited a little bit of money.

Grandma, too. It was like 100 grand or something. So we had to really keep it on the cheap doping it. Yeah, this is also very risky. If I'm dead broke and I inherit 100 grand, I don't know that I'm immediately going to gamble it on opening a business. Well, his mom's basement was the plan if we failed. Yeah, grandma died and there was like three years later, I think we did.

It wasn't like, oh, way, you got money. It takes risk. Yeah, we dumped like everything into it. We're like, we got to go all in. And we did. And then it worked out. They were so broke, though. We couldn't even put tap lines in in the beginning.

We did the Kickstarter for the pizza oven. That's right. Yeah. Wow. Beautiful of pizza ovens. And when you guys were sitting down dreaming it up, were you drawing pictures? How were you thinking of what it would look like? And what were you thinking was going to be your guys' novel offering into a very, very crowded restaurant space in New York?

Well, we were super impulsive. We had gone for a walk to go eat at a restaurant in Clinton Hill that Matt had been told about by Dale Tall Day, who was a buddy of ours. That's right, yeah. And we got to the restaurant and it was shuttered. And we were like, that's where we're putting our restaurant. And we had never really been in that neighborhood and hadn't been living in Brooklyn that long. We had no business just doing this the way we did.

But we went and found a coffee shop and we drafted on a sheet of paper in my journal. How much might it cost to get in here? I think we called my dad to come look at the space that night with us or the next day or whatever. Yeah, hustled to get in there and that was it. Okay, so almost location before overarching game plan of what it's going to be. We knew we wanted to do pizza. And what was going to be unique about your pizza?

Well, I love Neapolitan pizza, but I think my favorite pizza style is New Haven, which has like a very charred crust on it because Neapolitan pizza is wet in the middle. That's why you do it with a knife and fork. So I wanted to have more of a dry pizza of Neapolitan. Doesn't like a soupy middle. No sweet middle and no big puffy crust. So we push our crust down and go toppings to the edge because people want more toppings than crust. You hate those bubbles.

You fucking hate those. I don't hate those. I just don't want to serve them. Okay. You're so on to serve them. You're fine. Did he eat them? I'll eat them, yeah. Okay.

It's obviously not New Haven style, but I tried to base how they cook their pizza on how we kind of cook our pizza. Is the original pizza that you guys started with what I have eaten there? Was it rectangle and what we might call Detroit-style-ish? No, so we have a big wood-burning oven at the original location. So it's round wood-fired pizza. And then the Emmy Square is the Detroit-style one. So what's the timeline from Dad comes? He looks at it.

He must be thinking, this is a terrible idea, but they're young and I'm going to be supportive. Very supportive. Was he? Yeah. He was just like, because I don't remember that. He was very supportive. I even said that, but I bet he was like, what are they doing? Right.

He was like, you got to do this. You guys, because we were thinking about buying an apartment or something. And then we were like, let's use that money to open a restaurant. And your father was just like, no, you guys are opening this restaurant. Was your dad worried that you had had so many interests at this point? My parents were both educators. They were not happy. I resigned from my career track job at the Department of Education to pursue yoga and then open a pizza restaurant.

They believed in the vision, right? That's true. They were both very supportive. He was a very talented. chef and they knew that from the get-go. And so we were doing it, so they got on board. In the beginning, it was a real affair of our family. My mom was there scrub and sinks. My mom was baking some cheesecake. Everyone really jumped in and helped. My sister was one of our first employees. So it was a family affair. It's just a manager, basically. How old were you both at this time? 30, what is it,

24? I think I was 33. Yeah, that sounds about right. So early 30s. Yeah. What was the original menu? It was just pizza? When did the burger arrive? So before the burger, we were like five-pots. Was this Spaglini or something? A great Brooklyn-based pasta. And then that was my real passion, too, because I always wanted to cook pasta. I got a pasta restaurant with pizza. And then the big burger comes around.

And that was bored of eating pizza. And so the burger started as something for him. Actually, it was the wings first. That's where that sauce came from. We had an employee named Tim Wynn, and he really was the catalyst for the Emmy sauce and was crafting and playing and then merged the wing sauce with mayo.

Yeah. the Emmy sauce emerged. I made a plate of crispy pig ears with the wing sauce on it, and I drizzled the Kupi mayo on top. And then when they mixed together at the bottom, like that became the Emmy sauce. Wow. Because that sauce was so much better.

They started making it for the family meal. How long into this experiment does that happen? That's probably like a year and a half? That far? I thought it was like six, seven months in. It's all such a blur. Yeah, I'm sure. I looked at the New York Magazine article,

and it was like June of 15. Oh, maybe it was about a year then. Yeah. Okay, because we hadn't taken any vacation, and I was gone with my family when that whole infatuation article came out. Anyway, Matt put the burger. It was for him. How well was the restaurant doing in that first year?

Was it kind of immediately successful? We were making money. Both of us were working there. 16 hours a day. So we were taking positions. 25 hours. Yeah. It was rough.

And we were purposely closed on Tuesdays because most restaurants are closed Monday and we want to go out to dinner. Yeah. Oh, that's always open on Tuesday night. I greeted every single guest and he made every single pizza that first year. Really? But it was working right away. Yeah, it was.

We went for the first time. You guys would have already been open for probably three or four years. Yeah, because it was a live show. 19 probably, 2019. Rob, when was our Brooklyn live show? I'd say around 18 or 19. It still wasn't a location that would scream this restaurant should be there. And I'm sure the neighborhood's only gotten better in those four years since you opened.

So to me, it doesn't seem obvious you guys would have picked that spot. There's not a bunch of other great restaurants. all around. Maybe increasingly so, but certainly not at the beginning, right? No, not at all. Good neighborhood places. You hit the timing lottery in that a lot of people were moving to Brooklyn and probably people going to go out and pay for a nice meal. I found you because I was doing the thing I do when I go to a new city, which is what are the best new restaurants or best restaurants? And I think you were on Eater. The 38. Yes, you were on the 38. You did best burgers specifically, right? I think so because you were like, we got to go have the burger. And I had actually

already been, I'd been to the West Village one with your kids when Kristen was shooting a movie there. So this was early. This must have been pretty soon after you guys. I was shooting buddy games. You were shooting buddy games and she was shooting like father. And the kids were really little and I was there to babysit. I like went there to go help. And I must have found like, oh, there's this good pizza place and I took them. There's a picture of me and the little kids like at the pizza place. I was like, the pizza is so good. I could not believe how good it was. And then the burger, unfortunately, I have not really gone back to the pizza.

I want to go back for the pizza. She drug me. We had a show that night. And I had shot the night before a live show up to like one in the morning, took a red eye, landed. And it was like, I'm going to sleep until the show. And she's like, we've got to try this burger. So I was a little like, what are we going to do here? And then I know you've heard me tell the story, I'm sure, or it's gotten to you,

we got there. And at that time, it was $27 for the burger. And I go, this is fucking not. This is ridiculous, Monica, a $27 burger. And I took like three bites. And I like at her and I go, this is the most underpriced burger I've ever had in my life. I would spend $55 for this burger and not that I would. Also, it was packed when we got there.

I was like, oh, no, we might not be able to get in. And we went right when it opened at like 5 p.m. Yeah. Oh. Okay. So it's working right away. And what are the stresses? You're commenting on it.

You guys are both working. around the clock. You guys, I guess, have Tuesday to not be coworkers. How's that all simmering? Not well. Not well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's hard, right? It wasn't like not well. It was just like, we couldn't take that day off and just like not worry about the restaurant. There's always labor. Someone doesn't show up and then a food delivery doesn't happen. That Tuesday, we couldn't be like, let's just go out to dinner and chill and not worry about the restaurant. But we're always like checking our phones. We're always worried about the restaurants. I think people really do underestimate the amount of work it requires to start a restaurant.

Would you say? They do. Yeah. And when you do it with your partner and we were very solid, I mean, we'd been together for a long time and felt solid. We weren't able to compartmentalize and everything, three o'clock in the morning, arguing in bed over something. I feel like actually that didn't happen until Emmy Squirt opened.

Maybe. I think the original restaurant, we were a little more. You were in the probably honeymoon phase of having created something that's all being. And then we open the second one. I mean, ask Ibu. I love him. Our dishwasher is the keeper of all secrets. There's no office because the restaurant basement is so tiny.

So we would get in fights in the little wine room and poor Ebo would be like turning the volume up on his jazz. He's been there since day one. But I think a big rift was that Matt was in his calling. I have just these memories of looking across the dining room. It was an open kitchen because we wanted it to feel like an extension of our home. We love to like host things. And he would be at the oven glowing in what he was supposed to be doing.

and I was missing the mark. I'm very good at operations and systems and hospitality, and I was doing well in terms of my performance, but I was really struggling as a human because it wasn't aligned with how I wanted to be spending my time. That's why I said I dragged you into it. Yeah. I was melting down.

I didn't have the resilience skills. He was living his dream and you weren't living your dream. Yeah. And the pressure... It's so supportive, though, of it. It was amazing, right? It's not like she would ever crack and be like, I don't want to do this anymore.

It's like she was always being like... Well, I was also like I was Emily of Emily, which was weird as an identity. thing too. Yeah. No, no, no. You're right. But I would say, too, when couples work together, and I've worked with my wife a bunch of

times, generally if someone's having a very stressful moment in their job, the other person necessarily isn't having their most stressful moment. Right. And then vice versa. And often, there becomes a nice rhythm of like, okay, it's kind of my time to take up some space. And now it's your time to take up some space. When you're in the exact same pursuit, you're both dealing with the exact same

stress at the exact same moment. So it's like there's no one around who's like outside of the bubble that can be the outside objective person going like, yep, I know. And it's going to work out. Your sister was kind of like that. She tried. Yeah. She was pretty good. Yeah.

And your partnership, you want your partner to be a source of comfort. And if you guys are both experiencing the same stress. Stress. Neither of you can really be. It's different with us, obviously, because we're not in a relationship. But we're at the same stress level at the same time always when it comes to the job. That causes fights. That causes friction.

If we can't fill the schedule, we're both Dealing with that and then something else pops up and it's like, oh yeah, we're already our baseline is like freaked out about two weeks from now. Or we might have differences of opinion on how to handle it and we both care about it. It's very complicated. That was a big part of it. I think we operate from very different perspectives in terms of how we manage and we're very different people and are very suited not to be together working or in relationship at this point outside of

friendly relationship now, and that any kind of fissures that were under the surface that we didn't notice in terms of we grew up together and we became very different people. So that was really amplified by the pressure cooker of that circumstance. Yeah, I don't even need to ask what the different vibe was. It's very obvious to me. You're very kind of laid back and you're on a spiritual surf mission, a pizza surf mission, and then you're going to figure everything out. Get it done. Yeah, yeah. We also had different problems at different times in the restaurant. She's very good at front of house stuff. I don't know a lot about that.

So she did that thing. And she'd be frustrated by employee problems or like liquor delivery and stuff like that. And then I'd be in the back of the house and the same thing, which is like, dough doesn't rise correctly, where our hamburger buns didn't come in. We would have different stresses and try to lean on each other. But when you have different stresses and also trying to come together, it's so hard. You're not terribly sympathetic to the other person. Yeah. So it's like, yeah, you don't just go down the street and buy one.

It's a big deal. Yeah. It is a big deal. Was there ego stuff happening? Sharing the. Yeah. Sharing the credit. As they started getting, if you.

start getting written about and accolades are coming? Is that challenging? I love Emily taking care of all of that, right? All that stuff. She was good at it. So she is good at the publicity. She's good at doing the interviews, setting that stuff up. And she comes in, she's like, don't forget to smile.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Things like that. Don't speak too quickly in the podcast today. Yeah. But did you, Emily, were you like, I'm not really getting the credit? I'm doing a ton of the work and making sure this thing runs. But the chef is going to get all the. I feel like maybe it was the opposite.

And I mean, I don't know. Matt named it after me, which wasn't expected. We really couldn't land on a name. And so then suddenly he names it Emily. And then it becomes this personality that I'm wearing, which was very strange in terms of my identity at that time. And yoga and poetry were stripped away because there was no time for anything else. And so I was very much that.

And because I was forward facing, I do feel like maybe there was some unconscious under the surface friction where you were doing all of this. but I was the person with a camera on me, even though you didn't want that. Yeah, like, if I created the burger, and then Emily's doing an interview about how great the burger is and just won all these awards,

I might be like, yeah, but also I created her. Right. She's a hype person then, right? Why would I try to force my way to do something that she's better at doing? She's not going to come and cook the burger. I mean, that's extremely healthy point of view. Yeah.

But under stress and everything else, that would be hard for me to always manage. I'm okay with her being Emily and being front-facing, and then, like, I make the food in the back. Yeah, yeah. mom and pop shop, right? But it got very complicated. So we opened the West Village.

We literally signed on with our growth partners, open the West Village. Did they approach you or did you go seeking for birth? They approached us with all the acclaim and everything. And then that same month is when our marriage fell apart. And so then the brand is pizza loves Emily. It's built on our love story. And that felt very challenging. And I think that's when personalities, egos, whatever you want to call it.

Hurt and all these things. I thought more people would care that. we got divorced in the sense of publicity, right? Nobody cared. I don't think a lot of people know. I was going to say. I was going to say. I doubt they know.

Okay, maybe that's the point. Before we get there, when we go to the village, we name it Emmy Square. It's still Pizza Loves Emily, but it was like a mishmosh. Well, Williamsburg came first? Williamsburg did.

That was the flagship Emmy Squared. Pizza loves Emily was Williamsburg. No, it was Westville. So we have Emily Original in Clinton Hill. That's in Clinton Hill. Emmy Squared opens in Williamsburg in 2016. and then we open the Pizza Loves Emily kind of combo. In West Village.

In West Village. Stay tuned for more armchair expert. If you dare. We are supported by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. That's smart. Not checking the pockets of your jeans before doing laundry. Classic oversight.

That mystery clunking in the dryer? Yeah. That was your lip balm's final moments. And somehow there's always one random receipt in there to dissolve into confetti. Yeah, checking first is smart. So check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary, subject to terms, conditions, and availability.

Allstate North America Insurance Co. and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. Okay, so what is Emmy squared? How is it going to differ from Emily? Matt wanted to do a second concept, wanted to grow the brand. I want to look a square slice place right next door to, original one. He used to make a lot of ficcaccia sheet pan pies for us at home, which was

delicious and loves a frico crust, right? And so found this backdoor entry into what the amazingness of Detroit style pizza is. We ordered a bunch frozen from buddies. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, he grew up eating at buddies. So my nickname, he called me Emmy, and so is Emmy Square Pizza, second location, Emmy Squared. And that also took off and has a great

burger on that menu. But Big Matt is a different burger. You created the La Big Mac for Emmy Squared. Correct. Yeah. So now here's the part I really relate to, which is I have my own identity, and then my wife has her own identity. And then we have a shared identity, which is us doing commercials together. I know I read an interview where you were talking about that fear of, oh, we have this other

thing. We have this combined identity, which is these restaurants. And they're famous, these restaurants. And they're getting written about. You're winning lots of awards and stuff. And yeah, that's an interesting third person in a relationship. Every couple has a shared identity at a dinner party, but I think when you have a very public-facing shared identity,

it's quite complicated, would you agree? You can start feel like you're servicing this third thing and not the original thing. I think a struggle for me with that was it felt performative, and that's not how I operated in terms of the founding of the original. And Matt would always say, it's a business, it's not emotional, it's a business, it's not personal. Well, I think the original one's personal. emotional.

Well, so in terms of that third member of the relationship, that was our custody battle during the divorce was the reason we still co-own and operate Emily is because neither of us could. Par with that. That was the child. You were going to have shared custody no matter what. It really complicated things. And then the copy for the cookbook was due that summer that our marriage fell apart.

So I'm writing our love story. Emily, the cookbook. Yeah. Wow. It was about your love. Olive pizza sitting on the floor of the dorm. So it was all just very weird. Yeah.

Did you feel fraudulent? Yeah. And were you starting to wonder, like, if I let that whole identity go, who am I? Yes. And I took a leave of absence from the business because I couldn't function. Because of that tension. In terms of all of it. Yeah. I left and never really came back in in the same way because then pandemic came and everything changed. And I mean, it all worked out for the better. But that had a huge impact on my role as an operator of the business. And how were you dealing with the death of this third identity? I sort of mentally left also. I still kind of going through the process of it. And I think restaurants, they can be like a beautiful stage, like a staged area.

I would try to separate personal feelings to the restaurant just being like, okay, we're going on. And it's more of just like, let's do this performative thing. And then like, you'll be done and then whatever. But I'd mentally basically checked out. Not that you were in a abusive relationship, but it does remind me of like Cher was hating, living with Sunny. And then they would go do the show, which actually loved the show because they could be their old selves there. It was like this weird little sanctuary from all their problems. It was always weird when Emily wasn't at the restaurant

because it's just like, I don't trust anyone but her to be in front and do that stuff. Because even though we had our differences like in marriage, always the restaurant, there's never like an argument about it really. It's just like, this is what we're doing and we knew it. We always had each other's back when it came to the restaurant. So when she wasn't there, I just felt alone there. My partner is not here to guarantee it's going to go well

because that's what she does. That's nice to know. Thank you. It's true. I say to this to my wife all the time when we work together, I literally can't help but say like, oh, you're my favorite person to work with. You're so good, always. Immediately, you're easy to work with.

If we got divorced, I'd still love working with her. She's still the easiest person for me to work with. She's just such a professional, and we have such a communication working together. And she's always got your back too, right? Yeah. It's very fascinating how you can have these compartmentalized relationships within a relationship. And all of it's happening at the same time. Yeah.

Yes. There's no breathing room. Were the fissures, so they were not about the restaurant. I mean, obviously everything's all tied in, everything's muddy and it's a soup, but were the breaking points not connected to the restaurant? I think they were connected to the restaurant. It was so amassed. I mean, our life was just that, and we were angry at each other,

and I don't want to speak for you. But I feel like it's fair to say we were angry at each other and just not on the same page, and our interests were divergent. You guys did this amazing thing. in the New York magazine, maybe I read Unhitched or something in some column. Oh, New York Times. When my first book came out.

Yeah, you were saying, I mean, look, you guys met in college as sophomores, and you're now into yoga and you're on a path, and you're a chef, dude. That's what you live for and want to pursue. And they're not getting closer together these interests. They're getting further apart. And neither of you want to do each other's thing, per se, in the off time. That's getting older. Yeah.

You just kind of grow up, and our friendship took a, it obviously. because we're getting divorced. Yeah. But like after that, we come back together. We're still fans of each other being in the original restaurant. We still have each other back when it comes to the original. That took years, though. Yeah, but, you know, on the other side,

yeah. We both grown up into, like, adults with separate interests. We can still have relatable things like the restaurant and just life in general. We've had some of our first healing conversations about our relationship just this past year. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Because it looks from the outside that you're very comfortable with one another and still good friends. You're both remarried.

Yeah. Exactly. We're much more suited to be with. His wife is lovely. My husband is amazing. Some people never get there, right, after a divorce where they can say that. They can say his wife is love. Like, that doesn't happen all the time.

So you guys obviously took some care. Thank God she's here to referee while we've been in L.A. together. Thank God for Simone this week is all I'm going to say. Otherwise, there would have been tears for sure. Well, we all right? I went to a clock. I had his number blocked up until, I guess, we sold Emmy Square.

That's good to know. Because I think most people can't relate to, well, we got divorced and we're just still best friends. That's not normal. No. There was a lot of drama, a lot of pain. And it's only recently that in our therapeutic work separately, I mean, I think a big part of it was, which we just recently talked about, we both come from very codependent

family of origins. And so at 18 and 20 years old, we just perpetuated those behaviors. and now that we can look back and start unwinding some of those narratives, it's like, oh, we can see how we were doing that and how we're different than that now. So this is actually the healthiest, I feel like we've ever been, honestly. Yeah, yeah. I've had fun this week, too. Yeah, yeah.

What kind of pains came with growing? I think that seems daunting. Perfecting Emily seems doable. And then two more, how was that challenging and how do you oversight it? You guys must have both cared so much. about having the same quality at all three. What were the kind of the challenges that were popping up? Before you get to the food, I didn't want to grow it.

Let's get back to our life. Emily is functioning. I don't want to do more. And Matt was like, this is our chance to do this. We're doing it. And thank God. I mean, we did. It changed our lives.

But I think that was a core moment of strife just in terms of, okay, now I'm helping to scale this thing that's already overwhelming me that my nervous system can barely handle. I'm completely a hot mess as a human. Yeah, yeah. And now you're going to times that by three. Yeah. I took a more scientific approach to it. I knew I wanted to cook the square pies in the convection oven,

which is like the big oven with a fan in the back of it. But then like every time you open the oven, like it cools down, right? And then you start inconsistencies and then you need timers and you have to trust who's putting it in. And so I went to like, I think, it jets or something. I don't know. I remember there's like chain pizza places that has a conveyor belt oven. And I was like, oh, you know what? This is.

Every time a pizza goes through, it'll be the same. It won't lose any heat. Such a complete opposite of wood-fired oven. where it's like so high maintenance and you got your temperature right in your hot spots you're this and that so it's like well i just made the actual cooking process easier right yeah yeah like it gets topped and then it goes in and like because labor is impossible to monitor when you're scaling yeah yeah having even that little control where we could take one person out of the kitchen was helpful but then obviously emily's dealing with the front of house and just a whole new squad of like yeah there's no way to mechanize that yeah yeah sadly thankfully you're a teacher because i'd like walk upstairs from the kitchen and there'd be like a white I love my chart paper markers. Oh, yeah, chart paper. Chart paper basically teaching the staff how we want this done and being a teacher really worked out for that.

Yeah, I really enjoyed doing staff trainings, especially as the Emmy squared organization grew. I helped open a few of those restaurants and would do that and build the curriculum for that in the early days. And so that was an enjoyable part of scaling things. But how do you maintain the special texture and dimension of this ethos, this energy, with 30 locations? Yes. Yes.

Yes. Before we get to that, where did the crinkle-cut French fries come from? The waffle fries? Yeah, the waffle fries. Yeah. How do they come about? I mean, they're not as good as burger, but they're pushing up against it. I usually cook and put stuff on the menu that I want to eat. So the original restaurant has straight fries. Emily West Village has curly fries. Yeah, that's right. I don't know if it still does. But then Emmy Square it has waffles.

Now it has waffles. That one has Woffelage. I was just there, yeah. But they used to have curly fries. So I wanted each one of my restaurants have different fries. I'd go to that restaurant. Be like, these are the fries I want to eat today. But when you sit down to design a waffle fry, what does one do? Oh, these comes in frozen. Oh, okay, okay. We were making our own fries at Clinton Hill.

It wasn't sustainable. Well, we served like 10 burgers a night before it got popular. Yeah. You know? So it's like making your own fries. It's easy because we're going to sell 10 burgers and like 300 pizzas. And then when the burger exploded, it's like, uh-oh. Yeah, if you've ever stood at the counter and in and out and watched them actually make the fries manual,

there is someone on that fucking smash her all day long. That's not a great way to make fries, though. You want to double-cook your fries. You cook them, then you freeze them, then you cook them again? Is that what happens? I did three cooks. I do like cook in a baking soda bath, sort of like circulate them in a circulator, and then do a par fry until they got slightly brown.

And then we cool them down and pours them in a little baggy. And then when the order comes in, then it goes in the friars. No wonder. I do feel like I'm going through six or seven layers with a waffle fries. Crunch, crunch, crunch, crunch, oh, gooey. It's a good fry. So once the three were up and running, weirdly, I can't believe I've never been to the Williams Berg one.

I'm just learning of that. Oh, it did. I'm never going to. It's unfortunate. It's so beautiful, too. We had like this cool bar in the basement. The burger bar. The burger bar.

So we don't serve burgers in the basement. Yeah. There was a bar down there. Did you ever go there? That part of the neighborhood changed a lot during COVID. Oh, yeah. Dang. Right down by the BQE.

So those three, you had the original. Then you had partners in the second and the third, right? And is it the same partners that then became a part of this 30? Yep. So we have this restaurant businessman. man, Howard Greenstone, who found us, and I had strange random, like, family. I grew up...

Do you babysat his kid? I grew up, no, I grew up next door to his brother's family, so, like, his nephews and I grew up together. Yeah, so weird. But there were many people sniffing around, and it felt like, with that connection, Howard was the person. He had the vision to scale it in this way

that we didn't have those skills, and so he really shepherded this journey into what M.E.Squired has become. Does he call and say, hey, we have one here, or does he call and say, hey, what do you think about being here. There's like a big research team now. So we have like a real estate angel lawyer and they are in charge of let's look at this lease. Is it a good lease? Is it what we're looking for? What's the foot traffic? Assessing the neighborhood. Yeah. It's not necessarily like when we found the original or we found like Winsberg or

West Village. It was sort of like we stumbled on them and they were cool. Well it was in our heart and now it's a company so it's a little bit different. Yeah. Well when we found the locations we were like oh, these are exciting locations. But now it's just a little more like corporate people finding the right. Yeah. Yeah. We'll work in this yeah. Especially with like that many restaurants, it's not. about your gut feeling anymore. Yeah. Yeah, it needs to work. Yeah.

Well, you have to be kind of an expert on the area to understand. Yeah. So do you guys like Ray Crockett and drive around and stop it? Yeah. Different ones that check the quality? We're used to. We haven't done that since it got very big. Yeah.

Yeah, because at some point you almost have to get out of the way. Get out of the way. Yeah, you got to get all the personal things. So what happens if you go in and then you're like, ah, I don't like this about this. That's too much, probably. Micromanging with 30 restaurants doesn't work. Exactly.

I mean, it's a dumb. analogy, but like, yeah, if we had to go listen to a podcast that was somehow armchair expert, but it wasn't us, that would be very bizarre. I can't, I can hardly even imagine what that experience would be like. I was say, for me, it was a little bit of relief in a way where, you know, we have a corporate chef. He takes care of the training. If I wanted to do something, he'll make it happen. I was in Nashville a few weeks ago with him. You know, we just started coming with some dishes and it was fun, and that can be creative, and he can be creative, but he can implement all that. Every single restaurant and have different ordering people, so he's good at that. It is, though,

weird whenever I'm in the city I'll go to the West Village and walk by or take my picture there but to be the person who was picking out things down to the paint color on the walls which was mushroom bisque by the way I think we have to have mushroom bishe. The ceiling is shaken not stirred. Fun facts

but nobody in that restaurant would know me as Emily or if I come in and I'm like hi I'm Emily I mean I walk into the front of the house there they wouldn't know I'm Emily of Emily I can go see Oz in the basement sure but it's different to be removed in that way.

Very. It feels sad. It just feels like a very different time and place in my life. And then Emily Original, though, our first hire, Ibu, shout out to Ibu. He's this amazing, talented Senegalese artist, by the way, who is our dishwasher extraordinaire. But he's been there since day one. Sammy's the burger guy. Who cooked every burger you've ever eaten has been there.

So we have a lot of folks that have been with us through the whole thing at the original, but it changes when a company grows. So he's the head chef, Sammy. So he's been there for 12. 12 years now? I think he started 2015. About a year in. Yeah, about a year end.

And he was a prep guy. Thank God for Sammy. And then it doesn't work his way out. Somebody just didn't show up to work. I'm like, Sammy, let's cook these burgers. And then the first day, he's up there cooking burgers with me. It's just like, he's like, yo, I want to do this all the day. It's like, you got it, man.

Yeah. You got it. It's like, let's do this. And then it's like thousands of people's cooking every single burger. And he'd watch me every single time. He didn't like touch a burger until like six months in basically because I just had him there. He's just sitting with like onions. Putting the sauce on the burger.

We just go through it over and over. Oh my God, I'm starving. I want the burgers. Yeah. I know. I wasn't so bad. I mean, in retrospect, we should have coordinated so that he could have cooked you burgers. Oh, we should have done.

I've gotten the kit like four or five times. And it works out very well. Nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Old belly. If you can't get to a restaurant, that will give you. Yes. And the hack is, the instructions are perfect.

They really walk you through it. But putting the bun on the paddy while it's sizzling is Primo to get it nice and steamy and juicy. Yeah. Okay, so things blew up. You retreated to New Mexico. Before that, I was just hunkered down in Brooklyn helping open a yoga studio there. Oh, okay. Before New Mexico.

Is it a pandemic or after? No, just one thing. 2018, that's right. Between us. Oh, okay. In the article, there was a big fight in front of Emily. Yes. That was time to regroup.

I spent the night in central booking in downtown Brooklyn. Because you were arrested for hitting Matt with a bag. Yep. Wait, wait, wait, wait. We're going to have to talk about this. I was charged with a. salt with a weapon. A canvas bag. Oh, boy. Two cops were walking.

No, I, yeah, and student essays from teaching at Cooney. I had just a bunch of college essays to grade. So you just took your aggression out? Yeah, I lost it on him in a way I've never been so disembodied. I found out something about someone he was dating and it activated me and two officers were walking by. It was so random. Two cops like popped out of the subway exactly what happened. As opposed to do their basic duty and de-escalate. what was clearly a marital dispute and solve the problem.

They wound up handcuffing me and arresting me and I was taken downtown right at like 5 o'clock so then I wound up staying overnight. Oh, God. Yeah, oh, God, it was horrible. My mom had chemo the next morning, so my dad and my mom and my sister and her brand new husband

who was like, what the fuck's going on in this family, we're like walking around in downtown Brooklyn trying to get enough money out of the ATMs to like stuff it in my sister's pocket so that tomorrow she could come out and make bail. And that was the lowest moment of my life. I was going to say, what kind of emotional clarity came from sitting in the jail? The beauty of that was that moment changed my life because there was also a restraining order

put on me to be around him. All of this was dropped and sealed and dismissed. But because of that, I was very much pining and desperately wanting to keep the restaurant alive and begging and pleading. And Matt was just firm line in the sand like this is over a moving on, which thank God he held it. that boundary because as much as I beat up against it, that was good. But the restraining order was a next level of like boundary or else you're going to be in

trouble. And I actually met my forever husband, Jeff. So I spent the night in Central Booking on Thursday. And then I went on a date with Jeff that Monday night. And my friend at the yoga, my friend at the yoga studio, I was very erratic that weekend. I feel like I went on a bunch of dates. And she was like, maybe you shouldn't be going on dates right now. And I was like, I'm going on this date with this guy.

I'm going. And then I wound up telling him everything and he thought it was hysterical. He's my husband. But that boundary of the restraining order, this was done. I cannot go over there. I saw this beautiful,

the roomy quote, the wound is where the light enters on the side of this church that next morning. And the light just entered from the depths of the wound. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The universe is weird.

And you probably needed some weird nudge in the form of a restraining order to go, okay, now we have to choose another path. Yeah. This one is a dead end. And there was,

the most amusing part about that restraining order. So the cookbook was now at this point about to debut. Oh, my goodness. And so there was a caveat in the restraining order that I was allowed to be with Matt for the book launch. Yeah. And that was the first time. You guys what you've gone through. The first time we saw each other from the moment of this thing on the street.

The Maylight. Was sitting at Greenlight bookstore signing cookbooks. And you were pretending. The love cookbook. Yeah. It was horrible. Oh, this is so human. I love it.

Oh, God, it was awful. This is making me. feel itchy. In retrospect, they escorted me down to the subway police station, Hoyt Schemohen in Berklin, and I'm like,

take your shirt off so we'd take pictures of you. And I was just like, eh. After I got to document the abuse. Oh. All burst up all over my side here. And they're like, can you take a shirt off?

I don't really want to get in the police station. You can smack you that hard? Yeah, I was completely burst. I was completely... I don't want to say you deserved it because I don't... The entirety, the entirety of my side of my side of it.

So can you imagine, like, a cop, and the subway was like, all right, take your shirt off. Yeah, yeah. I get your shirt up, kid. Yeah, you probably both were like, what is my life? I shouldn't have gone there. Well, the restaurant was doing so well,

to have your business be doing so well and your personal life be doing so poorly, that's such a mind fuck. It looks like this, but it's so the opposite in real life, is really hard. Or it feels like, if you're like me and your modus operandi

is the shoes always going to drop, To me and somewhere it'd be confirming and validating my story. Interesting. Which is like, yeah, I knew it's too good to be true. I don't deserve this. Look what a fucked up mess this is because, of course, this is too good for me to have. Yeah, it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like in some weird way, the beat downs are like, yeah, that's right.

That's what it should be because I don't deserve a spectacular restaurant that everyone loves and I were getting awards for. But it's tricky because then you can self-sabotize it. You can cause it. You can like pause these things, you know. Oh, yeah. Oh, we're so weird. weird and complicated. I love it. I know. My sister was at that point on the emergency call list to pop in for a service at the bar.

And so this all happens. And our manager is like, fuck, okay, I need to call Emily's sister. And so my sister was at some sort of event and she's getting calls from Meg thinking to Thursday night, Meg is calling me to come in and do a bar shift at the restaurant. I'm not picking up. Meg keeps calling her. She's like, why the fuck is Meg calling me? I'm not going to work tonight at the restaurant. And then she finally picks up and it's like, oh, your sister is somewhere. in the New York City prison system right now. Oh my God. Yeah.

Wow. I think that's where they held El Chapo, too, at the same time. You're in there at the same time. Oh, my God. Okay. Now, the second chapter of everyone's life, which is landed beautifully. So you went on the date with the dude on a Thursday after the Monday arrest. But you do go to New Mexico, to Santa Fe to do some kind of a grieving workshop.

Yeah. was seeing this amazing acupuncturist during the separation of the divorce, and she was giving me these homework assignments like, go flirt with a barista, get me into some competency, things that were low stakes. And then finally, she was like, you need to go take a trip by yourself somewhere, do something. I googled writing retreat in New Mexico. I had no reason to type that in and up pops this writing your story of loss and transformation, which was a grief retreat at this beautiful center called Ghost Ranch, which I highly recommend. I landed there and was like, I've never felt called somewhere like this. And so I want to get here. And pandemic, just for an array of reasons,

expedited that experience. So yeah, we moved there in 2020 and then got married. And if you look at pictures of me from when I was arrested and when I was at the peak success of my life, I was almost 250 pounds drinking two bottles of wine and night, you know, like not a healthy human. Yeah. New Mexico has also been just this resurgence of me getting to be me. So you live there now permanent? And you're a yoga instructor. I am. I co-own and direct a studio called Yoga Source. Yeah. Gosh, so you got there.

Yeah. I still think ice creams were interesting then. And you published Divorce Business Partners? Yeah, which I saw is on your shelf. Yes, yes, we have it. So what year did that come out? That came out in 2024. There's a great poem in there about my night in jail, just saying.

Okay. About bodily functions in jail. Oh, wow. We love bodily function. Yeah. Absolutely. And then my second book is coming out. my wise little ghosts there officially in July.

And that's all poems. It is, yeah, narrative poems. So that's about processing the abortion I had during our divorce to add more strife to the whole situation. I wound up getting pregnant. Yeah, a week after everything fell apart. And so processing that experience of grief through the lens of psychedelic therapy, which has been just life-changing for me.

Cilocybin or ayahuasco? Silicine predominantly. Okay. And LSD? No, some MDMA therapy. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. I had a preventative double mastectomy three years ago. And so I started the psychedelic therapy to help integrate what felt like a very Frankensteiny torso.

So the MDMA helped with that. And then as I graduated to the psilocybin, this whole experience of healing with who would have been my daughter came through in this book. Oh, wow. So, yeah. Just to wrap up your story. And you kind of said it, I'm having the greatest success of my life and things are the lowest. I think this is a bizarrely common experience and to think that you're happiest now.

I think so. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you, okay, so, Matt, how did you meet your wife? You ended up absconding to Austin, which is my favorite city. Oh, we got a good barbecue truck there. Oh, I'm going at the end of the month. Where is this barbecue truck? 15 minutes north of the river.

Oh, let him feed you barbecue. By the campus? No, it's above the campus. Probably by Europe. What's your hotel you like? Oh, Commodore Perry. Yeah, it's beautiful. Oh, my God. The food is so good. Is it anywhere near there? No, it's near where, like, all the big tech campuses are. Oh, okay. She gets arrested. She has, uh, she has a restraining order. She goes on her journey. What do you do after that arrest? How do you start to rebuild? Our business partner, Howard, created a restaurant out of nowhere for me to, like, do something. To escape to. Yeah. We got a Michelin Award for that, like a Bibbormand, which was really great. What kind of restaurant was that? We did grilled pizza, just like Alphorno in Providence, which was our favorite. restaurant. We grew up pizza and then it just couldn't survive through pandemic. People took advantage

of the protest to like riot. That was unfortunate because the protests were happening and we were supported. But then we got broken into and a liquor was stolen. So like people were abusing the protest. And then we're just like, fuck it. It's like everything's like trash. Really quick. When you win a Michelin Star, it's right below the star, it's the Bibbormon. Okay. It's almost a star. Do they present you with a plaque? Yeah. It's in my kitchen. Okay. So the plaque is in your kitchen. And that got a Times review, too, Violet, right? Yeah, very time's review. Pete Wells is from Rhode Island. and we kind of did some Rhode Islandi stuff. So, you know, after like a month, he reviewed it, like, quickly.

We caught him there twice, and then Dale Talde. Really quick. These reviewers come unannounced, obviously, right? Yeah, yeah, but, like, everyone knows. And what happens when they arrive? Everyone shits their pants? Yeah, everyone's like, yeah, he's here. Dale was more experienced with dealing with reviewers,

so he's just like, we make two of every dish, and then we taste each one, and then one goes out to him, and the other one just doesn't matter. Goes in the trash. He goes to the dishwasher or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he was very good with that. Gary. Yeah. Also, how do you take a bite out of each dish without fucking up the dish?

Well, it depends on the dish, right? It wasn't like we bit of burglars. Or pizza. They're probably the sauce, all the... Yeah, like, you know, he ordered a few pastas. Okay. I had met Simone maybe a few months before that opened. In New York? In New York, yeah. She had a restaurant nearby called Little Tong. Or she had a few of them. I'd been to them, but like, I never knew her. And then I became friends with her publicist, and then we started going and then kind of start dating through that way.

Do chefs share a common... bond. Yeah, we like to complain to each other about like labor and people not showing up and things that have gone wrong. So, yeah, there's a camaraderie there of chefs. Comparative, there aren't a female chefs in New York. You know, when I met Simone, I was like, oh, cool, it's like a female chef. Yeah, yeah. That's hot. That was in May of 2019. And then we started really dating in October. And then she got pregnant like three months later. Oh, wow. She was pregnant all during pandemic. And our son was born in August of 2020, which was so bizarre. To bring a baby in at that time, feels like, ah.

We didn't know if groceries would be infected, right? Like, there's a time since, like, we'd wipe down groceries. We didn't know what to do. Yeah, and also that. Also, New York was uniquely visible and hard compared to other places. Luckily, the hospital we're in, it delayed opening because of pandemic. So we were one of the first people ever. Oh, nice.

The hospital is cool. Wow. Fresh sheets. Yeah, like snip a ribbon at the door. Oh, wow. Wow. So, like, baby. Oh, wow.

I was at a hospital in New York also during the pandemic right before the pandemic hit. That's terrifying. week or two before. Oh, wow. With my seizure. And guess what? After the seizure, Kristen and I went to Emily. Oh. So that's right. Because I remember you sat at the chef's table. Yeah. And then everything closed down right after that. Exactly. It was like third week in March, I think. You had the first baby. She had the last burger. Yeah. Exactly. I had my birthday party. And then like two days later, March 12th baby was like, that's it. Everything's closed. Yeah. So how do you end up in Austin? We were living Clinton Hill, like right down from the restaurant. And then I was just like, I was born in New York. And then I lived in

Connecticut for a few years, and then the next 20 years, I'm in New York again. So I never lived anywhere other than the city. So I want to leave. I think a lot of people during pandemic were just like, I'm leaving. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, like a lot of the New Yorkers went to Miami and the Californians went to Austin. Didn't want to go to Miami. It was like, all right, let's go to Austin then. Yeah. Girl of Californians go. It's a city that I've always loved. Great food. Yeah, great food. Layed back. It's easy to get around. Everything's no more than 20 minutes away from everything else. So it's like a big town that's just really friendly and cool. It is. And then how quickly do you decide let's open a restaurant here?

Swam got pregnant again. We had our daughter. You say it like you don't know how this happens. I don't know. Yeah, both times. Like she got pregnant. Yeah. It's mystery.

So then we were really looking for spaces for maybe a year. And then we stumbled upon this one that had a smoker in it. So we did some Chinese food with some smoke stuff. And then we opened the barbecue place. We met our pit master. The name is Jonathan Lagos from Terry Blacks. Oh, okay. Yeah.

So he was like one of the pit guys from there. He's like our Austin Sammy. Oh, okay. He's like a big gentle, man. You ever go to Loro? Yeah, I love Loro. I love Loro. So I'm wondering, how are you in your Chinese wife fusing your backgrounds into one restaurant?

Is it a hybrid? We closed it, but the Chinese restaurant was sort of like a hybrid. I like cooking more Southeast Asian food, like Singapore and stuff. And she likes cooking more like Chinese and like French style. So we kind of just had some hybrid dishes there. But you were smoking meat too. Yeah. It's got an Austin Flair.

Smoking meat. And we had a little truck in the patio. So you could get your barbecue. there if you want or come in for some Chinese food. And then the sides for all the barbecue, we'd made homemade Chinese noodles with like queso on it and like Don Don, and like instead of coming with that gross white bread, like all barbecue does, we had like flaky rotis. Oh, yeah.

Does some party you still want to create another thing? I think going back to Emmy Squirt should be fun now because I can focus on that and just reinvent the menu again. Our partner, Howard, just like, if you were to rewrite this menu for 2026, not for 2016, what's the dishes? Yeah. And obviously being a different chef now and we're mature, it's just like lighter. vegetable. When I left, everything just turned to like carbs and the appetizers. That's just too heavy.

Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare. It's the right time for him to be back there, it feels like. In the arc of this whole story, he's landed back there at the time and place. It needs him and he's ready to help it come into the next wave of being. I'm excited to open a chocolate store with Simone eventually, but that would be more her Who's on the food truck? Are you on the food truck ever? Not usually. Like, I'll go up and visit every week or something. You designed that menu and taught him how to make everything. No, no, no, no. I mean, no, pit guy taught he's the man.

Jonathan's the barbecue savant. Simone and I just kind of came with the sides, basically. And then they started doing a burger. Oh, uh-oh. There's a really good burger place in Atlantic called NFA. This guy's name is Billy Kramer. Do you know NFA burger? She's from Atlanta.

I'm from Atlanta. It's in Dunwoody. Oh, my God. I'm going to go. It started a gas station. Oh. So Billy and I became friends. and then we did a pop-up in Austin with him.

He's training Jonathan and our other pick guy, Trevor, how to make a burger, right? And then George Motez comes from Hamburger America and he starts training them how to do a good burger, right? And then our friend Cole from Dreamburger in Nashville comes. And then he starts teaching them how to make a burger. So the two of them, they have like these three master burger people. Yeah.

Right? And they're like, let's make our own based on what we learned. And it's pretty great. I don't make smash burgers. They want to do a smash burger. They put their onions on the smoker. and like they made their own special sauce that's like a smoky, onion-e

you're gonna have to get that. Oh, I gotta get out there. I have a rental car, I could do it. Yeah, so I have no notes for them. I was like, you guys do your burger the way you want them out to be. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My last question is, are you able to have some pride

in what a successful thing it was even though it ended? I mean, we're sitting here together on this match with you. Yeah, it's impressive. There was a very long time. I didn't think we would ever be here in relationship. And now it just feels like we're family members who had a falling out and have

come back together. And it feels really beautiful to co-own and operate our baby together. Every breath gets us to where we are. And so everything that we've done together has informed how we've grown. And the amount of learning and resilience skills I've built through the process of navigating our divorce has allowed me to be the person I've become and I'm forever grateful to that. And just grateful, for the love that we had in the way that we had it. Birthed that restaurant still stands. I would imagine it's kind of similar to like when divorced parents are at graduation for their kid.

And they look at this kind of like, ah, fuck, look what we did. Yeah, that feels very unpointed. Well, you guys, this was lovely. It's so fun to meet the people who we've never talked about a food item in our lives, like our obsession with that fucking burger. I mean, the whole damn spread is beautiful. The fucking, sometimes it's broccoli, sometimes it's cauliflower.

Russell Sprout. Brussels Sprout appetizer. Good way to trick me into having some veggies. It was so good. You guys really made something very special. Thank you. Yeah, incredibly special. That will probably outlive all of us.

And wait, we wanted to do something special for arm cherries if you were game. We thought if anyone gets this far in the episode, we could have like a code word that for the rest of the month after this episode comes out, they get a free dessert if they say the code word in the original. Absolutely. We know what the code word would be. Let's see. What's the code word? Yes. We got it.

It was going to be that a reverse back, but dolphin asparagus is better. I thought dolphin asparagus. A dolphin asparagus. That was rough. Let's hold us out. I just guessed that. Both are incredibly perverse. So either would work.

But dolphin asparagus, I love that. So if you're an arm cherry and you're anywhere near an alley. Maybe they can order it. I'll have the dolphin asparagus. Oh, there we go. And it means the burger in a dessert. So we'll say for the two weeks after this episode airs. Okay, that's more reasonable.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If they say that at Emily Original. Emily Original. They'll get dessert on the house. Okay, Clinton Hill, go to Emmy Original, order the dolphin asparagus, and you're going to get a dessert on the house. I love this.

Yeah. And if you take a picture under Monica, you get extra credit. Yeah, Queen Monica. Beautiful picture there. Right in the waiting area in the front. It's so nice. A lot of people will post that that they're there.

Oh, wait. Can I air a grievance? could be wrong. Sure. I believe I have to go next door and buy Diet Coke and smuggle it in. Do you guys have Diet Coke? You motherfuckers. What is what these restaurateurs do smugglers who think they shouldn't have Diet Coke? Is it that you're too classy? What's going on? Of course. Why wouldn't you? It's just New Yorkers. Why wouldn't you have Diet Coke? I don't think New York is a big diet Coke. Oh, I think it is. Finance. Squirts have Diet Coke. Our partner Howard drinks Diet Coke. Okay. Howard knows what's up. Yeah, he knows what's up. But let's get Diet Coke at Emily so I don't have to go next door and

I guess we can accommodate that for you. That's right. That's right. That'll be reversed back. Okay. Jeez, we have so many coats. They're just asking me like, hold on a second. It's like learning the specials that night. Yeah, exactly. It's like, what is it?

Oh, it's Diet Coke. That's what we're serving Diet Coke tonight. We're serving Diet Coke tonight. Well, Emily and Matthew, this was wonderful. Thank you so much for coming in a long time. It's for coming. It's so great. Everyone check out my wise little ghost.

Of course, you could still get Emily, the cookbook. It's still a great cookbook, whether or not it was fraudulent in its messaging at the time. The recipes are still great. Yeah, yeah. The recipes didn't know. So, thanks for coming, you guys. This is great. Thanks really.

Thank you. Yep. We hope you enjoyed this episode. Unfortunately, they made some mistakes. I broke my phone yesterday. Oh. I cracked the front. Okay.

So you're in a little bit grump. No, I'm not grumpy at all. Oh, all right. I cracked the screen, and it's crazy how much it hurts my feelings when that happens. Ah, how did it happen? I was doing what I do often, which is try to save trips. Sure. By carrying way too many things.

I mean, I'm never going to learn this lesson. I'm 51. Yeah. And I will continue to try to reduce everything to one trip everywhere. So I was doing one of those. I was carrying a lot of different things from the sauna to... somewhere else and uh yeah and it fell out of my hand it didn't seem like a biggie and then i looked and sure enough crack crack city oh man and i just go like oh it hurts more than it should i mean

i think because it's your phone and you immediately go oh i'm going to be without it or it's going to be i don't know there's something interesting about it where yeah i'm like oh i'm sad i'm sorry i mean that was yesterday oh okay but do you get sad every time you see it Well, I have an appointment at 1245 to get it fixed. Oh, great. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm on it. I'm on it. Nice. Are you going to the Americana? I am. Nice.

Yes. And then I'm going to snoop around and I'm bad at this, but I keep asking Lincoln for birthday suggestions. Oh, yeah. Again, ultimately, I do interpret this as a great thing, which is like, when I was a kid, I wanted everything. But I keep, I'm like, Friday's going to come and, you know, I want to be able to give you something. She's like, oh, yeah, I have a list, but it's, I'll give it to you later. Like, it's just never.

Oh. So, I'm presuming it's going to take a minute to fix this thing. So I plan on perusing, which I never do. But I'm going to walk that Americana and see if something leaps out at me that Lincoln would like for her birthday. Well, I can advise a little bit. The Americana, as much as I love it. Yeah. Shopping-wise, it leaves a little to be desired.

Okay. There's some, like, very fancy, like there's a Tiffany's there. Oh, okay. So I could buy her like a $4,000 tennis bracelet? You could. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not going to, but I could.

Yeah, you could. Tiffany's pricey, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it is. But then they do have some, like, teen stores. I just don't think you want to go in there. It's like teen clothes stores and, like.

I'm in there. Yeah. I don't know if it's super you. And I'm asking like other 13-year-olds. Would you like this? Exactly. And I really am just trying to find something for my daughter. I know.

But then I get tackled by a father from behind. That's right. Would you feel cute in this? Oh. Do you think this is flattering on a body like yours? But you could really be a totally above board in the questions that I could sound horrendous. Yeah, you really could. Also, like the lighting.

in those stores really hurts my eyes. It hurts your eyes. And there's something, I'm like, kids are way, you know, it's when you really feel very old where you're just like, oh, no, this is what they're wearing now. Okay. So is it too bright as your issue?

That's part of it. Okay. And then the clothes, you're like, I don't relate. I'm just like scared of the clothes. I'm scared of the youth. I would never fuck with clothes. That's a stupid. Right.

And also, I remember, sweet grandparents would get me clothes. And then everyone's in a bad position because you feel terrible and you got to act like you love the sweater. Granddad picked out for you. Aw. And I'm, that's what would be the case. I'd be like, oh, I thought this was red. Oh, whoa. She is wearing all my old punk rock t-shirts.

You could get her vintage shirt. They won't be at the Americana. No, sir. There's nothing old there. It's all new. But there are vintage stores, other places in the city. I told you about this is a longstanding green. I told you about the time.

One time I was at the Americana. Also, for the listener, I'm in a mall maybe once every two or three years. Yeah. I am never there. I know. So I went to see a film at that AMC at the Americana. Uh-huh. And I walked by the Golden Goose store or whatever it is, the shoes.

Oh, sure. Yeah, yeah. C. Gigi. And a pair of shoes leapt out from the window at me. Okay. And I walked in. Do you have that in 11.5?

Oh, yeah, we do. Great. I'll take them. Oh, you didn't try them on. Great. Let me sign you up for an account. Okay. What's your email and address?

And I said, oh, I don't, or a membership or something. And I said, oh, I don't want a membership. I just want to pay. And she goes, well, you have to, you have to sign up for a membership. And I said, you won't sell this to me unless I enroll in some program. And she said, yeah, like, it won't even let me. And I'm like, okay, thank you. And then I left.

Right. And I was like, is that what we've come to? A membership? I've never had to do that. Good. We're on grievances. I got another one. And maybe I've already aired it on here before.

Stop asking me to rate everything. I'm so fucking sick of I go to use something. I want to use my food delivery app. And first I got to be asked to rate it. And then I got to go to you. You don't need me to rate YouTube and all these things. Enough. You don't mind.

I can see on your face. You're not bothered. It's a pop-up screen. You got to go. through. I don't on YouTube, I just X out of that. But on DoorDash and stuff, I click it out. Because I, you know, I want the person to get their five stars. Yeah, but also you would think if you rated it once, that would be it for the rest of your life? Like, what are you going to rate it every week? Is it a daily rating? But it just keeps popping up. Because also if you go, oh, fuck it. Okay, I'll give you five stars. And then it says, and then a new screen comes up, would you like to write a review? Right. And you said no. I know, but I, why did that? Is everyone need to get reviewed all of that? Just like. Just like, just. Let me use the service that I'm paying for. And don't ask me to review. Or you go to the doctor.

There's three email follow-ups. How was your visit? Please rate your visit. I know. I just ignore it. I know, but it's a lot of traffic that doesn't need to be there. No one needs to rate. Okay.

Well, they want to know if they did a good job. Rob, do you like rating stuff? No, I hate it. No one likes it. Does the screens bother you? Yeah, yeah. I'm always saying skip and I get pissed because. Okay, great. I'm not crazy. And then also the gas station. Here's another one. You go to the pump and it's like, do you want to sign up for a membership? No. Do you want a car wash? No. Do you want a receipt? No. And at some point you just want to go, I want gas. That's why I came here for gasoline. It's frustrating. It is indeed frustrating. I don't have any grievances. Oh, oh, you probably have agreements about that. Let's see. Let me get out of here. Let me do.

Let's do it. Do not disturb. Do not D. D. D. Please rate the rejection of this call. Was that, was it easy to use? That was fast.

I thought it was easy. Five stars to reject that call. Totally, yeah. Well, let's, let me add some positives. Let's, yeah. They have made it easy because I get so many junk text messages. I get like, you would think I have a credit score of zero. I get about 15 texts from different numbers.

This is a positive? Every day. Yeah, from debt collectors. They're not real debt collectors. Yeah. They're trying to trick you in something. Yeah. Scams.

And what I like now is you can just slide to erase and it says delete and report junk. One button. Love that. Boom, boom, boom. I love that. Wow. Because I want the junk reported. I want to save other people from it.

And so that feature I love. Great. Yeah. Congratulations to Apple. That's a positive of technology. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I worked out again. How to go?

I think well. Okay. So I'm just getting huge. I'm just getting jacked over here. Yeah. I'm like, I'm really swole. And I've gained. You spend a lot of time in front of the mirror?

I look. For how long? Not very long. But I look just to see like, how are my gains? Yeah, your G-A-I-N. Big. I showed you yesterday. You can't see I'm wearing kind of a long sleep.

I'm surprised you're not wearing a tank top to show off the gunnies. The gunners. No, like, I am. I am a sore also, obviously. What part are you sore in? I'm sore here. Tricet. Yeah, because I did that yesterday.

Yeah, good. That's a good feeling, isn't it? It is. It is, yes. Yeah. I do, I will say, I do prefer the feeling after cardio than I do the feeling after weight training. But that's why I'll just have to do both. They're time horizons, really.

Uh-huh. So after cardio, you do get an endorphin blast for sure. But the muscle thing is a less spiked, much more protracted. Like that feeling of tightness all day is this this gentle mental reminder like, oh, yeah, I pushed myself. I pushed myself. It's such a steam building, just all day gentle reminder like, oh, yeah, I pushed myself. Huh, yeah.

So it's not like the endorphin spike, but it is a real. elevated self-esteem for a lot of people for me yeah yeah for camille i know that's what he experiences about it um yeah so i'm in a tricky such a this is going to get really um uh esoteric so my leathers that i'll be riding in on monday that's the outfit you wear to it's a full leather body suit it was made for me it's a gorgeous suit you've seen it's got arm cherries it's got cherries on the arms it's got a little homage to nicky hayden my friend who used to race. There's a lot of great.

They're awesome. I would never want other pair of leather. The problem is they were made for me when I was 185. And not only was I 185, I just had a completely different body composition.

Yeah. So we have had the suit let out like three times. It has been sent. I don't know if it gets sent to Italy or what, but Alpine Stars has who made the suit.

They have adjusted it three times. And the lower half, that was the killer. My thighs got way big. My thighs got like 30% bigger. And I could barely get them in the suit. Yeah. So those were fixed.

Okay. But now it's the fucking my biceps in my arms. It's so tight because I just rode three weeks ago. And I'm like, I'm so tight I can barely feel my hands. That's not good. You need to have mobility. So, okay, now here's my Sophie's choice. Okay.

This is the, cannot believe I'm going to admit this out loud on the show. So I will likely wave the checkered flag at the race. I did last year. Okay. And I hadn't planned it last year. I just, they asked me to wave the checkered flag and I did. Which starts the show. No, it's the end of the race.

The winner. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm like in the tower. As they come across the finish line, I'm waving the checkered flag. Cool. And as... This is for the race... MotoGP. Not the thing you're riding in.

No. Got it. Yeah. There's a MotoGP. The Formula One of motorcycles is on Saturday and Sunday. Yes, okay. Sprint on Saturday. And that's like a legit, that's on TV, that's like a thing.

Oh, yeah. You're going to wave. And last year I was on TV. Got it. Waving the flag. Okay, I see. And I'm going to tell you egotomaniically, and with all vanity, I noticed when I was waving the flag, oh, your bicep looks awesome.

Oh, wow. Okay. It really, like, you couldn't miss it. Uh-huh. And I was like, oh, this is great. I love it. People commented. I'm sure they did.

Okay. So now I'm kind of addicted to that reaction. Oh, no. So I don't want to do arms for like a week because I'm going to ride, but I also want to do arms like the day before I have to wave the flags. My biceps look great. Uh-uh. Which one?

No, you need to be able to ride your motorcycle. I think I'm going to pick the flag waving. Dax, this isn't funny, actually. It is. No, because you could fall. No, no, it doesn't hamper my ability to ride the motorcycle. How do it? Of course it does if you're like, I can't even like, you can't even move.

It's just uncomfortable. I think your arms are huge. A week off's not going to change. Exactly. Thank you, Rob. It's not going to change the muscular. You need to look up the video and me waving the flag. You might change your mind.

No, he won't. He cares about you not breaking your neck. How long ago is that, too? If your arms are too big for the suit, that means they're still bigger than then. Well, no, they weren't too big for my suit last year, too. This is so sickening. Why is it sickening? You're going to prioritize that over your, like, potential.

My comfort? You're making it about safety. There is no safety issue. I can ride the motorcycle whether they're tight or not. How do you know? It's a comfort issue. It's very uncomfortable. Don't you need to be comfortable if you're going to be nimble on the bike?

No, you don't have to be comfortable. You don't. It's just like you could race a car in an uncomfortable seat or a comfortable seat. That's like if you're a gymnast and you're in a, you're in like. High heels? Yeah, I guess. They would impede your performance a lot. This won't impede my performance.

It's just uncomfortable and then I'll add to it. it determines whether or not I come in and out of the suit. So in between sessions, it's also Texas. So it's going to be like 95 degrees, right? It'll be hot. I'll be sweating bullets. And when you come off the track on my 30 minutes of downtime, I kind of want to take my arms out of the suit.

Now we get into my shoulder issues. This is another thing with all the surgeries, getting in and out of this. The whole thing's a little rough. So then I'll just end up kind of staying in the suit in between. And dehydrating. No, I drink a ton of water. There's no hydration issues.

You know I drink a ton of water. Yeah, but you're not drinking electrolytes like I tell you. Yeah, I drink Gatorade when I'm at the track. Oh. Yeah. All right. I just. And you're going to get a UTI because you can't take it off because you can't pee.

No, no. I can unzip it down to my weenus, which I do. But I do have to pull the whole package up over the leathers and then the zippers down there. And so that's a whole. And if it's tight, it might cut off your entire package. Again, that hasn't, that's not. affected by the size of my arms. I wish it was.

Oh, yeah. Well, oh my God. I just, I just, it is body dysmorphia that you can't see that like your arms are, as Rob just said, huge. Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah. And with or without. I can see that.

With or without you doing more. Well, that's just maintenance. I'm not like I'm trying to do a new person. You think in one week your arm's going to look like mine or something? No, I don't. By the way, mine are pretty swole, so you would be excited. They do look different when I've pumped in when I haven't. I mean, that's just, that's a bad.

But they look huge if you haven't. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you don't have to. I know, so you probably have like a shirt that looks great. And then you might have a blazer you like to put on over. And I could be telling you, the shirt alone looks great. And you're like, yeah, it does. It looks great.

I prefer it. My thing is I want to look great with the blazer and the shirt. I know. but if the blazer was a detriment. Oh, please pursue this line of thinking because you and I both know, you operate in grave discomfort to go on the carpet with the super high heels and the dress it's too tight and you've told me I can't breathe. I fucking hate it. Yes. So you do it.

For the picture. Yeah. Not for safe. Not for then me to go do something that's like safety. It's going to impact my safety. These are one for one. No, they're really not. They're really not because you're riding the motorcycle.

I feel you need to be capable of like, like doing that if you're about to fly off or something. You're not listening to me. This doesn't at all augment my safety. How could it not? Because I'm uncomfortable doesn't mean I can't operate it exactly. Can you lift your arms all the way up in it? You can. Yeah, it's just like when you're wearing an extremely tight dress, you're like, oh, this is uncomfortable.

Right. So you prioritize your look over discomfort often. Well, okay, I'm going to say one thing. Okay. I actually am somewhere in the middle. I don't wear like a super high. Sometimes I look around and I'm like, how are they doing that? I can't.

I will look like an idiot. Like I won't be able to really do it. So I do prioritize some level of comfort and style. But I've been with you when you're like, oh, I can't breathe in this or my feet hurt. Oh, yeah. My feet always hurt. Yeah. Yeah.

So we relate. We know what it's like to be willing to experience discomfort so that we look a certain way. Sure. Yeah. I'll give you that. I'm not, I don't care about the day of the check of flag. You want it to be a safety issue, but it's not. There's no safety issue.

It's a discomfort one. And I'm acknowledging even that's preposterous. I am acknowledging that I want my arms. to look a certain way on TV, and I'm willing to be uncomfortable for a whole day at the track. Okay. Can I tell you something that's different? Okay. Me and a flat shoe on the red carpet legitimately looks, I can't, I feel bad because somebody's wearing a flat shoe on the record, and they probably look great in it. And by the way, it's just a subjective, Monica. You're saying, you're saying to me the thing I noticed the difference

in is not real. And you're saying the thing you notice a difference in is real. And you're saying the thing you notice a difference in is real. And I'm saying plenty of people would think you would look just as great, not in heels on the right carpet. Do you know who's not? The fashion police. Okay, great. There's like a legit amount. There's like people who look at your outfit and scour it and say that's chic. That's not why they do this. Why did they do this? And so you do have to look sore. You don't have to. You don't have to. You don't have to. I mean, they're identical things. We both want to look a certain way and we're both willing to be uncomfortable to look a certain way. I guess I just don't think the judgment.

I mean, you're the only one. I'm not judging you for what's happening on the wreck carpet at all. No, not you judgment. I'm saying, I'm saying the judgment from the outside world. Uh-huh. I don't think the outside world is going to see you waving the flag with or without the pump and think much different. I know. You think that just like, because you're not a dude.

And I think people wouldn't say she looks crazy without high heels on. So we both think that. But Rob is a dude. And Rob said that your arms will look huge regardless. They will look big. Could they look bigger? Yes. You will look very cute.

Can you look cuter? Sure. Okay. I mean, these are just really tip for tab. They are. I mean, maybe, yeah, maybe I just don't understand that thing. But they are different. Like, heels do something to your leg shape.

Like, it's not like. In veins, uh, sticking out of your body. do something to what they look like on TV. Sure. I mean, they're noticeable. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

We do the same thing. Okay. Okay. I just, on a, you're, that's fine. As long as it's not a safety thing, you do whatever you want to do. It's just massive discomfort, which I am willing to own. I'm happy to own that. That's preposterous.

Stay tuned for more armchair expert. If you dare. I admitted the other day. I thought when I was down in Florida for rat ditty. Yeah. I was like, oh, we're looking too big. Right. But then I was like, but it kind of works for that character.

But I don't want to look that big. So I don't think I have full dysmorphia. I think I have face dysmorphia for sure. I don't think I see what my face looks like at all. How do we know, you know? This is where AI could help us, I think. This is like, this is like, you know, the age old, what color are you seeing versus what color am I seeing? Uh-huh.

You know, it's like, we. There's no way to know. And not to mention that we're adding in everything's subjective. Like everything looks good. Something looks good to one person. To you and I guess. Exactly. Someone's like I hate muscles.

Someone's like I love muscles. Yeah. This is a whole. I love big noses. I hate big noses. Right. It's all subjective. And there's a couple consistent ones.

Thank God. Well, yeah. I mean, there are people that everyone can universally agree on. No one's like, I fucking. hate perky breasts. I've never heard that in my life. I've been around for a long time. I've heard I hate big dicks. Yeah, but you've also. I've never heard it's like, fuck you that. I hate perky breasts. But some people probably hate big breasts. That's why I said perky. I know, but like it's of course a perky if they're non-existent. The male equivalent. I've never

heard someone say like, I hate how wide his shoulders are. I could see someone saying that. depending on who the person is. I actually could see myself saying that about someone. Oh, really? Yeah. I don't like wide shoulders? Remember I told you sometimes like, sometimes it's too much?

That's a different thing though, right? That's too muscular and not soft. Yeah. But just the frame of a man having wide shoulders. Well, if they're as big as this room, that's too big. I'd love to meet the person who had shoulders. I don't want to meet them. I'm scared of them.

Oh my God. Did you hear about this basketball player who's like 70? 8 or something He's so tall Everyone was talking about This is Charlie's birthday party And college player or Rob do you know about him?

No Okay Look him up He's like I think he might even be like 16 or something Or 18 Shack 2.0

I was gonna say height's probably The biggest comment He's taller than Shack Okay 7 foot 9 Oliver Rue Is that sound right That sounds right? That sounds

right. Is he like a young kid? Let me find, yeah, he's in college. The whole thing is there's been plenty of. Yeah, that's him. That guy is like seven feet tall, the one next to him. No. Yes, we were doing this. We were doing this. Okay, I don't know exactly. No, I promise you. It's like shocking. He's 20. I want to watch this kid play. I know. Yeah. Are they in the Look at him. Holy shikies for the listener. He's standing with his teammates. All of them. And presumably they're all above six feet tall.

They're all below his shoulders. These are tall men. These are basketball players. And he is. And he's behind them. Which that also makes him smaller in the photo. And remember like, oh my God. Like that guy's your height.

No, he's not. Yes, he is. That guy's five, seven. No, he's not. That's why they put him in the picture. This is what we've talked about. Remember, after you hit six feet. No, here's here with you.

You. No. Oh, she's five to you. She's taller than me. Because that guy's, she's at his elbow. She's taller than me. Like, listen. One inch taller. But this, this guy really is five five. One and a half inch. This guy is, is over, okay, once you hit six feet, the theory is in this room, each inch. We think after six four. No, I think it's after six feet. Really? Yes. I think you look much. much taller than someone who's just six feet. Right, over someone that's six feet in five ten. Yeah, when somebody's six feet in five ten, you can almost not tell. Yes.

Yeah, okay, I'm on your, what is he standing on the ground? I mean, I need a pitcher next to him so badly. You guys, he's holding the rim and is honestly his feet are a centimeter off the ground. Oh my God. I feel like I could, you know, when you're a baby and you like put your arm around, your dad's leg and you're like under his knee and you're just like holding onto his leg. I feel like I'm that for him. You might be right at nuts level for him.

I'm under his knee, I think. I'm just holding onto his little leg. And I just want to meet him. Okay, can I switch the topic to PSA? Because I think this is a long, um, fun healing journey for me. So I have traveled once since the, they have stopped getting paid. And I'm about to travel again. Uh-huh.

These people have not been paid for one month. Oh my God, I know. And they've continued to come to work. I am so in awe of them. And I admire what they're doing. And I thanked all of them when I was going through the airport. But more than that, what I was driving me nuts when I was leaving Orleans. I'm like, I want to bring a five-gallon bucket from Home Depot.

And I want to stand up and go like, hey, I'm putting a grand in here. Oh, that's nice. Everyone dropped 20 as you go through. Like, these people should get fucking paid something. That's nice. And I'm like, is that allowed? I got really hung up on like, can you do that? Is that allowed?

Then I'm past security. Now what? There's a bucket there. No one's making the announcement. People might take from it. So I'm going to take it. Is the TSA allowed? They can't make an announcement.

Hey, put money in here. So I'm like, do I put a sign on there? I got really bogged down with how can I make this happen? So of course I'm about to go to the airport on Saturday. And I'm having the same thought. I'm like, I want to bring money and grease everyone I see. Yeah. So guess what?

Elon Musk offered to pay for. for all of their one months of salary out of his own pocket. The whole country. Yes. He offered the White House. He's like, let me pay these people's salary while you guys fight over this. Oh, right, because like we need the airports to function. Yeah.

Yeah. And I was like, oh, thank God. And he's someone who could really just write a check for all of them. Yeah. And they turned it down. Really? Yeah, and it drives me nuts. Yeah.

Is there like rules because they're government employees? Yeah, somehow the explanation was like that somehow he would be liable for something. And I'm like, I'm like, we are so bogged down in bullshit, phony red tape. It's like these people need to get paid. Individual could maybe do it. Like, maybe like you. Well, he's an individual. But he was going to do it through the government, right?

No. He just said, I'll write a check to every TSA. Give me their names and I'll pay everyone's past four weeks that they haven't been getting paid. It says it's because of his various government contracts that he's not allowed to do it. Okay, again, it's all bullshit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, maybe then Jeff Bezos should do it.

Like someone who... Well, he probably has government contracts. I'm sure they cloud compute for the government. Right. Okay, well... I just hate when, like, something great could happen. Yeah. And everyone's going to, because of political reasons or they don't want to be affiliated with Elon.

It's like, who take his fucking money and pay these people. Oh, yeah, for sure. Just whatever the bullshit is. It's like we have an opportunity to pay these people who've been working for a month for free. How are they paying their bills? A lot of them are not trying to work because they have other jobs. Exactly. I know.

It's horrible. Maybe, I mean, you could just give some to the people you see. I mean, I know it's not the same. That is what I'm going to do. But also what I wish was somehow we could all collectively like put a fucking bucket out. If everyone dropped 20 bucks who went through. Yeah. That would cover their salary.

for the day. Tens of thousands of people go through LAX. Huh. I don't know how to organize this, but it drives me nuts, and I would be happy to pay while they're not getting paid. Well, we could try to start something

where we started on this show. We spread the word. What if it is? It was just fucking a big pyramid of buckets. And then that became its own problem why flights weren't getting out. Yeah, exactly. And just,

idea that like ice is coming in with zero training to there's no way they're going to help speed things up do you know they've been deployed to to to cover the gaps it's like what could be worse in the speed of the airport than a trainee yeah basically this what a bad plan they're like putting at the exits because they said that's an issue oh okay which is not exiting the airport's an issue yeah i think maybe if you have the means and you have some extra cash, maybe if you can just give it to your TSA. I wonder if they would get in trouble. Like, I wonder if they're forbidden to take money.

Because, look, it could look like what, they just bribe him is, he's not pre. He doesn't have a real passport. His license is not good. He got something through. He's not just to get through. Exactly. They're going to turn a blind eye. So, yeah, it would be a terrible policy to allow TSA employees to accept money from people.

You're right. I didn't even think about that. But if it's anonymous in a bucket. Yeah. Then no one's getting any fair, you know, unfair or whatever. I don't know. What I know is we shan't to accept this. This is nuts. Okay, I have an idea.

Okay. You could host a gala. Okay. Because I'd like to come. Okay. And. I'll wear my suit. I'll wear my leathers.

I'll do arms right before I put my leather. Yeah. That I feel fine about. I'm not worried about your safety there. And then, we can raise money at the gala for these workers. And like, then you can do what Elon was going to do. Then we have all the money and, like, you can just write these checks.

Howard can help your business manager. Yeah, I mean, I wish I had started thinking about this four weeks ago because I do think by the time we pull off this gal and distribute the funds it will be sorted out. Then we can keep the money. I'm going to knock on before I say this because I know this is going to make you nervous. but I did just think of what would be the most hilarious outcome to this whole debate about the suit is next fact check. I'm in a sling.

Stop, I've already. I'm in a sling and I'm still in the suit because I can't get on. Oh, my God. What do you think I'm imagining when we are talking about this? You're so arrogant to think that like someone's tight, tight, tight, tight, tight, leotard isn't going to affect their twists. It does. Hold on a second.

I ride them. I know. I've ridden with arms that are tight and arms that are not. So you're going to have to trust me that I know. Okay. Yeah. And it doesn't affect it. If anything, it might be more stability.

It's just incredibly uncomfortable. That is the issue. It's very uncomfortable. Okay. And it's hard to get in and out of the suit. It would be like grab a sleeve and fucking, you know, there's like a lot of teamwork to get us in and out of these letters. It is like getting. ready for a red carpet.

Yeah, like cinching each other's girdles up or whatever. Yeah. Yeah, us getting in and out of our suits is quite. That's the hardest part of the day. I can't relate at all to what you guys are going through with the shoes and shit. I mean, I just simply can't. I wouldn't do it. I know me.

I wouldn't do it. I can barely even wear the goddamn dress shoes. But the one thing that is borderline that I deal with as a man is like your collar on your neck of your shirt with the tie on in an Adam's apple. And I swallow and it wants to go below. that line and it's too tight for my Adams apple to go down into there. It's because your shirt's too tight. But they, again, to look good, you can't have a gapy collar. That's a huge no-no for guys. Like, that's got to look tightened up and the tie's got to be tight. You can't be swimming

in your collar. It looks terrible. That's fair. But, um, James Bond's never been swimming in his collar. You're right. I just, the problem is it also, you run the risk. We've talked about this. The neck on a man in a suit is tricky. Is everything? Yeah, because it can make someone look very stocky. Oh, okay. It has, it runs a risk. I want to see.

I'm looking up a lorri right now. It's so weird for my favorite actor to be, what did he, what happened to him? He did good? No, he looks great. And like, you're right, it's flush with his neck. There can't be any visible gap between the collar and your neck. It's not a good luck. But it's not stocky.

It's like, it's long and it's, He also has a very elegant neck. He's hot. He's hot. He's so hot. If you look at Statham, I was trying to think of my favorite actor, and I can't believe I can never remember his name. It's like, it's so weird to me. Jack Racher? No. Speaking of, that's really, as yesterday when I was working out, I had a podcast on and they talked about that. It got to you. Yeah, it finally got to me after it got to me. Yeah, yeah. No, Mobbland. Tom Hardy. Oh, yeah. I struggle with his name. Yeah, it's like a pretty standard name. I love him.

I love him so much. I started Mobland over again yesterday. Wow. But I can't imagine when he's dealing with a collar. No, but, Tex, look, look. Okay, who do we got? This is him and his collar's not flush. See, great.

I'm glad you just found this. He can't even have a collar tight to him. Yeah, but you just, uh, no. Isn't that? I kind of knew. He doesn't have a goddamn choice. Oh, there he goes. Okay, that's flush.

God, he is so fucking hot. Look at his eyes. Oh, my God. Anyway, I think everyone should look exactly how they want to look. Me too. Do the best you can with what you got. Just do whatever you want. You know, do whatever you want.

But I do think maybe if it's hurting your Adam's apple, we should be there. You know, it's like an hour of my life once a year. What about if we undo this button? Well, I've had to do that. Similar to my leathers, also all my dress shirts were made at a certain era of my life. And then I stopped acting so I wasn't accumulating any more dress shirts. So I was having to put braces rubber band in the fucking hole and then around the button. So little did anyone know, there was an elastic.

He sometimes keeps his shirt, but that's not a suit. That's not a tie. Once you throw a tie into the mix. He's wearing a bow tie. Maybe you should take the tie out. I've done bow tie. I don't like bow tie. I don't understand what the fuck that thing is.

Really? I think that's nice. I'm like, what is? This is like, uh... It feels like something you'd like because it's kind of like, it's a little femme in a cute way. It's just like, what? It's a bow?

It's so cute. Dex, this is... Dax? You're trying to show me your Facebook login page? This is a TikTok. Oh, my God, he has a TikTok. No, this is somebody else. Tarot Cash.

I just Googled it. Jacob Allorty. Um. You could, but you could be showing me videos of Allorty in a fucking, um, potato sack. He's gonna look awesome and better than I look. No, that's not true. Oh, yes, he's significantly better looking than me. No, that's...

He's like your height. He's taller. Oh, yeah, I forgot. Remember he made me look like a little... I forgot. He made me look like that fucking five-foot-four guy next to the basketball player. I can't wait for you to be next to him. Oh, we're...

The tall guy. Okay, let's do some facts. Emily Burger. Interesting episode. Our favorite burgy. Use the sauce last night. What did you put it on? Shout out to Burger Lounge.

They have a paleo option. Now that I'm not fucking with cheese. Yeah. It's brutal to have to remove cheese from stuff. Yeah. I also went to Yucca's Taco Shack yesterday. Yum. Best burger.

Yeah, you love it. You haven't tried it yet, right? Not yet. I keep meaning to it. And I had to say no cheese, and the cheese is such a good part of it. But, you know, it was still great. That's the thing about quitting things. It hurts, and then the thing is still great. Good.

Anywho, this I don't have to mess with because I guess paleo people aren't fucking with cheese. Okay. That is my assumption based on this paleo burger. It's got avocado, sprouts, tomato, lettuce, and then just the burger. Yeah. Boom. Yeah. Ordered it, put a bevy of different classy mustard on it.

And then it was like, oh, I have Emily Burger sauce. Yeah. So I doused it. Funny enough, too, Nate is in New York. This is a very ding, ding, ding. Nate is in New York with his kids for spring break And I said you have to eat here Go get the burger the kids will love the pizza

And I just sent that to him An hour ago And now here we are And I used the sauce last night Wow But such an interesting interview To interview to divorce people That still have to work together

Yes It was unbelievably fascinating Very fascinating I mean the interview itself is interesting But just like the psychology of that That is so wild. Yeah. That was a first for us.

Yeah. It was that we know of. Yes. I guess we could have had a couple on that was secretly separated. Yeah. We've had Melissa and Ben on and you know what. They're very much together. No, I know.

That one I happen to know, but the others I guess I wouldn't know. And who knows? Maybe I wouldn't know. You're doing a great job keeping it a big secret. Man, do they do a real. They seem really, really in love with each other. No, they're together. But as everyone is an individual, and then you put those two things together, and every person, every relationship you observe is unique onto itself.

Certainly every separation is also unique unto itself. Yeah. Oh, yeah. There's not going to be any two dynamics that are exactly the same. Yes. So rare, fun experience. So fun. Yeah.

This podcast I started. I want to interview more divorce people who work together. I mean, yeah, let's do it. I'll do a dedicated show. This podcast that I've been listening to for like a day, it seems that one of the people on there has a very good relationship with their ex-husband. And it's very much in their lives. That was my mom and dad.

Right. They were best friends. They did stuff all the time together. Yeah. Yeah, anytime we went to the movies, my mom and I, it was in the town that my dad lived in. We'd always invite him. He'd sometimes come for dinner. he spent the night on Christmas pretty often until she was remarried.

But even maybe a couple times then, I don't know. It was more a testament to like Barton, my stepdad, who had to deal with my dad being around all the time. My dad did not have a small personality. Yeah. That's nice. Yeah. Okay. Some facts.

So when did the Emmy squared in L.A. live open downtown? That was April 3, 2020. Oh, so it's been there for a minute. Coming up on a year. So I should be able to order from that one. I hope. That would be much warmer. When was our Brooklyn live show?

It was on September 22nd, 2018. Early. Did you say September? Uh-huh. Yeah. Six months in. Yeah. Okay.

What is right below the Michelin Star? He had this for one of his restaurants. It's called De Bibb Gormand. That sounds fancier than a star. I know. I thought it was above stars. Yeah, because this one has no association with tires. Well, no Michelin still.

I know, but like you don't hear Bibb Gorman and think tires. No, you hear Michelin and you think tires, which is not so fancy. Right, right, right. Okay, high quality food at a good value. Or as a Michelin selected restaurant formally, quote, the plate, these spots are recognized for using quality ingredients, proper cooking, and serving a, quote, simply good meal, even if they lack the prestige of a state. these spots are recognized for using quality ingredients, proper cooking, and serving a, quote, simply good meal, even if they lack the prestige of a star. Okay, reminder to anyone that for two weeks, I believe it is, or a month, you'll have to go back in the episode to hear it.

The code word, if you go into Emily, to get a free dessert is dolphin asparagus. Oh, shit. But Nate isn't going to be able to benefit from it. Shit. Okay. I don't know what to do about this. I don't know what to do either. Okay.

Well, he can just order and pay for his dessert. Yeah, so guys, dolphin asparagus, get your dessert. This is exciting. We've never had a tie-in. I know. I love it. I love it. Okay, so you expressed a beef with them about Diet Coke in the restaurant.

Yeah. It made me look up a soda consumption by state. Oh, fun. Why don't you guess what you think. is the state that has the highest percentage of people who consume soda daily. But this is, oh, what happened? 2010 to 2015. This is on World Pop Review, so it's like, really.

I'm going to say Mississippi is number one. No. This is a surprise. I'll tell you, this is a surprise. Okay. Although it might not be a surprise when you find out, but it's... It doesn't correlate with our obesity. Scales?

I don't think. Well, no. But also, there's some tough parts of this place. Uh-uh. So maybe. Not that Soda makes it a tough part, but it's Hawaii. Oh, interesting. It's surprising, right?

Okay. Hmm. Maybe not if I think about it deeply. Yeah, this is exactly. Yeah. Okay, so Hawaii number one. Uh-huh. I'm still going to stick with like Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama.

You're close. You're missing one. Kentucky. Arkansas. Arkansas. They're number what? Two. Okay.

Okay. Then we got Wyoming. I'm surprised. I am two. That doesn't make any sense to me. Wyoming is 73.2% of people have a soda a day. Very tiny population. Right.

Right. True. Okay. Then we have South Dakota. Okay. Connecticut. Okay. South Carolina.

New Hampshire. New Jersey. Louisiana, New Mexico, Georgia, ding, ding, ding. That should be number one is the home of Coca-Cola. It's embarrassing. Yeah. Not enjoying your bread and butter or whatever they say. Well, it's like one of those like you take it for granted.

Delaware, Vermont, Florida, Kentucky, Massachusetts, Tennessee, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Indiana, Rhode Island, New York, Maine, Maryland, Alabama, Alabama, Montana, Arizona, Mississippi, Nevada, California, Illinois, North Carolina. California is above North Carolina. That's Texas, Virginia, Colorado. Can I just guess last? Okay. Utah. No. Damn it. Alaska. Wow. I can't get it up there. Yeah. And then right above that is Wisconsin. 49. So. They're two, they're drinking beer. So let me state for the record. on my stereotyping was completely wrong. There's clearly no consistency whatsoever between North and South, and I was wrong. Also alcohol consumption, because a lot of people have drinks with soda. Sure, Jack and Coke.

Yeah. That's all I really know of is a popular. Ramen Coke. Yeah. Sprite and stuff. Sprite and Shirley Temples. Yeah. Sure Temples.

That's true. All right. Let's see. That's it. That's it. Yes. That's it for Emily and Matt of Emily. What a joy.

Yeah, it was really, it was also so fun. We've just been talking about Emily Burger for so long. And it was full circle. All right. Love you. Love you.