Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Flightless Bird: BBQ

Episode Date: March 14, 2023

In this week’s Flightless Bird, David Farrier travels to Austin, Texas to investigate America’s love of BBQ. Why do 7 out of 10 adults in America own some kind of BBQ device, and why is there so much BBQ in Texas? David meets up with the BBQ editor of Texas Monthly, Daniel Vaughn. David discovers that Daniel has eaten at over 2,000 barbecue spots all over the planet… 2,119 to be precise - many of them in Texas. Daniel agrees to take David on a day of BBQ eating, from Austin to Lockhart to Luling - shoving brisket and sides town their gullets in a feeding frenzy of epic proportions. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm David Farrier, and New Zealand are accidentally marooned in America, and I want to figure out what makes this country tick. Now part of the fun of being in a different country is comparing the way everyone does things with the way you do things back home. Like driving is pretty much the same, except back in New Zealand we drive on the other side of the road, and the steering wheel is where the passenger seat should be. We both have flags, but Americans love their flag way more than the people of New Zealand love theirs. And possums. Don't get me started on possums. In New Zealand, they're

these horrible little brown things with glowing red eyes. Whereas in America, possums are like a cute cartoon character with fluffy white bodies and cute pink noses. I mean, some people have them here as pets. Opossums show affection by a behavior called slubbing. What that is, is he rubs all over my feet, my legs, my hands. And there's another thing that's different in America, too. Barbecue. In New Zealand, getting barbecue basically means one guy standing around a little gas-powered grill cooking sausages and maybe some steak. But in America, barbecue is taken to a whole other level. 7 out of 10 adults in America own some kind of barbecue device.

And by the time you get down to the south, barbecuing turns into something else entirely more epic. So put on that cowboy hat and get ready to crack open a bottle of Big Red, because this is the barbecue episode. Flightless, flightless, flightless bird touchdown in America. I'm a flightless bird touchdown in America. I'm a fly whisperer Touchdown in America Episodes around food scare me the most Because I feel like it's so personal to people

And it's the ones where I'm going to offend people So I just want to say that at the top Okay I'm not an expert I'm learning about barbecue But I did learn that Big Red is a really good accompaniment Which is a ding, ding, ding. Because we learned about it in the Dr. Pepper episode.

And just to take the veil back a bit, I did record this episode around the same kind of time period as the Dr. Pepper episode. Right, you were in Texas. I was in Texas. And I thought, what else do you do in Texas but learn about barbecue? I have a little bit of a bone to pick. Oh, here we go. Right, so a minute in of a bone to pick. Oh, here we go. Right a minute in.

Because I love barbecue. And I wish you had taken me with you on this trip. Oh, yeah. Because that would have been fun. It would have been really good, actually. A lot of barbecue. My mom loves barbecue. I mean, this was my first experience with it. And I can just say making this episode was, I feel very lucky and privileged because I just spent a day eating.

And it was really good. What do you like about barbecue? Break it down for me. I think there is something really nostalgic about it for me, having grown up in the South. The sauciness is so good. Yeah. Sauce has a lot to do with it. It's pretty much the whole thing, right?

Well, that's the debate. Because it's, from what I could tell, look, I go into this in the documentary, but obviously it's the meat. Yeah. Apparently pig is the big one. Absolutely. But where I was, it was more beef orientated. I was in Austin and I drove out of Austin to a few places. Okay.

And it was more beef orientated than pig. Also found that Bucky's, that place that you love so much. Yeah. They're also obsessed with barbecue. I went back to Bucky's recently for a future episode and they're obsessed with brisket. They're selling brisket like crazy in Bucky's. In Bucky's? Yeah.

Yeah. So they have this whole barbecue area. What? And they're yelling and they're screaming and people are lining up for brisket. So when I was there last time after making this episode, I had a big brisket burger. How was it compared to the Texas one? It was really good. It was? Yeah. This was in Florida and it was still really good.

Oh my God. I wonder if all the buckies have that or if you just- They do. They've all got it. They all have barbecue brisket and it's really delicious. This is a sidebar, but I think the little delis in the supermarkets in different cities is very telling of the city. Gelson's is our grocery store nearby here. But it's very LA, isn't it? It is. I think it's very LA.

And they're known in their deli for Jessica's kale salad. Insufferable. Kale salad with feta and like shredded carrot. God, it's so Los Angeles, isn't it? It's really good. Okay. But yeah, that is so LA. And the fact that there's brisket in the South.

Every state you go to has a different big chain and they've all got that thing. There's one in Florida that is famous for their subs. Is it Publix? You go there for subs. It's Publix. Yes, Publix is my grocery store from home. I love a Publix sub in my heart. My heart throbs for it.

Right. Is it just, it's better than Subway sandwiches? Oh God. Don't even. Yes, they're better. They're better. Okay. I'm going to try one at some point.

The bread sometimes scratches your mouth, but it's great. Now, before we crack into this barbecue episode, I bought you in some New Zealand food. Because I'm learning all the time about American food. But I thought this would be a good opportunity to teach you about some New Zealand food. I'm excited. That sounds like there's a but coming. I am excited on an eight. And I'm nervous on a two.

Okay, that's a good combo. Yeah. Okay. So I was in West Hollywood with a friend. We were driving and I saw a store called the Ponsonby Road Cafe. Okay. And that tripped me out because Ponsonby is this neighborhood in New Zealand. Yeah.

I was like, what is Ponsonby doing in Los Angeles? This is crazy. I went in there and it was basically all the best New Zealand foods they're making. Fresh every day. It's like a bakery. Yeah. Fresh New Zealand foods. So this morning I Uber-eated a bunch of their stuff.

And I just wanted to show you some of the things. Okay. And we can eat them maybe at the end. This here is a sausage roll. We talked about the sausage roll on a previous episode. And Rob heckled you and said, so that sounds like a hot dog. He did. And how would you describe it?

Seeing this, it is not a hot dog. Can I touch it? Can I pull it out? It's for you. You can touch it. It's edible. So this is, can I touch it? So this is a beautiful sausage meat that is basically wrapped in beautiful, fluffy pastry.

It's complemented with ketchup. Do you have any? I'll see if there's any in here. I was in a bit of a rush. I'm not sure I bought some. Okay, so that's the sausage roll. Next up. Wait, I want to talk about the sausage.

It's just like a pig in a blanket. Well. It's a hot dog with a doughy. I'm going to say no. Do you want a little bite? Yeah. The sausage is not like a hot dog consistency. It's more like a meatball consistency, I would say.

And then it's puff pastry around it. I am going to take a bite. It smells really good. The sausage roll is the best of the best. How's that? It's really good. The pastry combining with that soft meat. I like this a lot.

I would definitely equate it. The consistency is meatball, but a little more moist. Yeah, it's wet meat. Yeah. Not a good sell, is it? It doesn't sound good. Look, can, is it? It doesn't sound good Look, can I be honest? It doesn't sound good

It doesn't look good But it tastes really good They put some ketchup in here Hey, I'm excited Dip it in that ketchup, Rob Just pop it in Oh, yeah It's making me salivate just looking at it

This is home Did you get one? I've got one Okay, good Okay It's making me salivate just looking at it. This is home. Did you get one? I've got one. Okay, good. Okay. It's good. Yeah. And Rob loves his food.

He does. It's kind of meatloaf consistency. Especially with the ketchup. Oh, yeah. I want to do a dip. Ketchup dip. So just say that it's very funny right now. It's very cold in LA at the moment, and you are wrapped up in a blanket like your grandma.

I'm freezing and eating a meatloaf. Okay, this here. Don't have too much. There's more coming in. Okay, there's more. This is our. But I want to finish that. That's good.

This here is a mince and cheese pie. All right. So this is mince. I need to know what that means. I mean, it's mince beef. So it's ground beef. Oh, okay. Yeah.

Okay. But when you say this is mince, like that sounds like. It's a mince pie. So there's a delicious sort of pastry going on. They fill that up with this delicious mince, layer of cheese over the top. Ooh. Seal it in with some more pastry, and you're

away. I love cheese. Okay, I need a Do I eat it with, are you supposed to eat it with your hands? No, so this is really important. This is, so in New Zealand, when you're drunk at 1am walking home, what you do is you find a store that has these sitting in a grill, and you grab them, and you eat them at 1am, and it gets

rid of your hangover. So I want you to get both your hands, wrap it around that thing. Sounded sexual. Sounded really sexual. And then I just want you to bite because the trick is to get the pastry and the mix and the cheese all in your hands. Is it supposed to be this wet? It's raining a lot today, so some of the rain might have soaked in. No, it's meant to be moist.

It is a moist, delicious treat. I'm saying that because this is very hard to grab. That's why you got to get both those hands around. Okay. There's a lot of lettuce. This one came with a salad. Okay. On an excitement level, I'm at a six for this one. I mean, yeah, and I'm nervous

at a six. Interesting technique. Wait, what should I, how should I do it? You sort of got it upside down a bit there. Oh, I do? No, you're good. You're doing well. It's a circle. How can it be upside down? Okay. Okay, I'm taking that part off. Okay, big bite in there. Wrap that mouth. Yeah, perfect bite. You got all the main bits. Okay. I'm going to pass one over to Rob as well.

This is good. I'm just going to have a bite because I can't stand you eating yours without me. Wow. The cheese is a nice additive flavor adds a sharpness to it otherwise i think it would feel too like just meaty it's good i've let this cool off a bit too much like you'd want this a bit warmer i was gonna ask yeah yeah you want this at a higher temperature there's a very famous clip oh it's really good in my second bite oh wow there's a really famous clip from Oh, it's really good in my second bite. Oh, wow.

There's a really famous clip from a New Zealand show that was about basically, it was like the New Zealand version of cops, you know, police out, busting crime. Questionable content, but there was a very famous viral scene where there's this sort of burly police officer and he's with these kids that look like they're up to mischief. And he just gives advice because they've got a pie

and he just says, always blow on the pie. Because it's so hot. They're sometimes heated to such a nuclear temperature they're known for burning the mouth. So you've got sort of the cooler end of the spectrum here. I mean, everything has come out of your mouth related to this pie sounds like a sex act or... Well, it's intimate.

I guess it is very pleasurable yeah okay that's really good now if i'm gonna explain it the meat is again wet oh it seems like new zealand likes wet meat it's not as congealed as i expected i imagined it more almost like a burger i guess our version of ground meat like all wrapped up but this is much looser than that. It's loose. Yeah. It's sloppy. It's really sloppy.

Sloppy in the mouth. It was really, really hard to hold. Wow, that was good though. Okay, can I ask you one more thing? Please. Nutritional value on these items. What are we looking at here? Look, it's not a health food. Okay. You

wouldn't want these every day of the week. Okay. We, for a while in New Zealand, we had two big kind of chains. One was very American. It was McDonald's. The competitors to McDonald's for some time, which I believe was actually bought by McDonald's at some point before it fell over, was Georgie Pie. And Georgie Pie just sold pies. And we didn't have one where I grew up in Whangarei. So my dad would take that two hour drive to Auckland, to the big city. He would buy 50 mince and cheese Georgie pies and we would freeze them and then eat them as a special treat during the year. Wow.

So that sort of gives you an idea of how much New Zealanders love these mince pies. Wow, that's beautiful. I like that. My dad rules. Okay. And he built you a tunnel. I mean, your dad did so much for you. I hope you thank him.

Yeah, I probably haven't been thankful enough, to be honest. And he did do a lot with it, building me a tunnel and Georgie pie. This is- Oh, this I'm very excited about. A lamington. A couple of days ago, I saw a post on Instagram from someone. They were holding an ice cream.

I'll shout out. Cupcakes and cashmere, Emily Schumann. She was holding ice cream that looked so delicious. And she said it was called- Hokey Pokey. Hokey Pokey. And she said it was a New Zealand treaty pokey. Hokey pokey. And she said it was a New Zealand. And you're like, what the hell is this?

I screenshot it immediately, sent it to you. What is this? You said. Hokey pokey. It's one of our best. It's honeycomb, little bits of honeycomb spread out through a vanilla ice cream. Yeah. And it's not something you get in America.

I'm amazed that this place makes it. It's one of the best combinations in an ice cream you could imagine. It's simple. It's delicious. It's fresh. Yeah, I really want it, but it is in Century City, which is far away. So I don't know that I'll ever get it. But when I sent it to you, you said, yeah, that's a New Zealand treat. I'll make that trip with you. Okay, we should do that. This is a lamington. And then you brought up lamingtons, which is? This is our other big thing. This is a New Zealand dessert. It is a very light sponge. It has a coating of either chocolate or strawberry icing all around the whole thing.

Yeah. So every surface of the lamington is covered in a delicious icing. And do I know what's strawberry and what? I think this one's strawberry. I think they're both, maybe they're all chocolate. The important thing is there's a light dusting of coconut flakes over the whole thing. Now, on an excitement

level, I'm at a 10 and I'm nervous, zero. Okay. Monica's first lamington. Really good. Good? Yeah. That's a face of happiness that I'm seeing right now. It's light.

It's not too sweet. Mm-hmm. It really is not too sweet. That's surprising. The sponge is very – oh, no. I was going to make fun of you for saying the sponge over and over, and now I've said the sponge. Oh, no.

That plan backfired it did yeah because the cake is very light it's really airy it's like eating a cloud uh-huh rob you have one there's three in there you wrap your lips around that wrap your lips rob yeah one of our most famous desserts, and we got the finale coming up Oh my god Yum, that's really good I could eat a lot of that I don't love coconut

But it doesn't taste overwhelmingly coconutty at all No, it's more a decorative feature, the coconut It's not overwhelming the flavor at all But it also adds a little bit of tartness So it's not too sweet, wow Alright, this is the finale. Oh, my God. That's another dessert.

Ooh. Oh, my God. What is this? What would you call it? I'd call it an eclair. Sort of rhymes. This is a custard square. Now, we call it a custard square because it's full of custard and it is square.

Both of them, lamingtons and the custard square are square. So this is very different to the lamington in that it's got more intense flavors and it's very dense. Okay. Whereas the lamington was like a light, fluffy cloud. This is just a complete, like, weighty treat. Okay. Now, yes, from the looks of of it and we'll circle back after i try it it looks just like any claire but a square version although the filling does look a

little thicker than maybe in a claire the pastries are really interesting texture well is this also something you eat with your hands it is all these things you're eating with your hands oh wow we don't use knives and forks in New Zealand at all. It's all hands. Wait, no, really? Everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Are you lying? I am lying. Okay, okay. But all these foods are kind of quite well known for just hands in. Okay. Straight into the mouth.

Well, because, you know, my grandparents eat everything with their hands. In India, especially at, I guess, their generation, you eat with your hands. In India, especially at, I guess, their generation, you eat with your hands.

And it's liquids. So I thought maybe you were being serious. Oh, so that's what's blowing my mind. Yeah, Pons Vero Cafe, this is what New Zealand tastes like. This is like I've flown back to New Zealand 12 hours and gotten the stuff I want. Wow. This is very, very good.

This is the custard square. It's really sweet. It's really intense. It is. And it also is like a puff pastry. Yeah, it is puff pastry. Correct. It's like a layer of pastry at the bottom.

You got your custard in the middle, another layer, and then icing on top. The custard, it's very dense. It's really really good the custard itself isn't actually that sweet i think it's the icing and stuff on it that really makes it super sweet yeah the pastry is very sweet as well so this has been this was fun yeah right i love this yeah i feel like it was easier to show you i feel like i've through a lot of episodes i've tried to describe things at different times, and it's really difficult. So why not just eat the food of New Zealand and find out for yourself? Can I ask you a question?

And I really, really want you to be honest. I hate these ones. Questions that start with that are never good. I know, but it's 2023, and you said that this year you were going to be honest. Uh-huh. And Dax isn't here, so you can be honest, okay? He thinks that New Zealanders are obsessed with soft-boiled eggs.

And he has said it so many times. And I think some people have said like, oh, I don't, I never had one there. Like people have negated that and he's had to be like, no, well then you don't know. And I have a feeling because you have not brought up soft what you didn't bring in a soft boiled egg today there are there are a lot of things about dax that are puzzling to me sure and his reference

to new zealand is being obsessed obsessed with soft boiled eggs is almost number one i don't know where that came from. Okay. And what he's thinking. It's because when he went there, I think he had a bunch of soft-boiled eggs. All I'll say is you get, like an Eggs Benedict is a very famous breakfast treat in New Zealand. Okay. And that is a poached egg. Sure.

We have that here. You know, that's kind of the closest. But no one is serving up boiled eggs No, soft boiled It's boiled, but not too much So the middle's very yolky, right? Very, very But it's so yolky that like it has a little cup

And you sit it in the cup You crack the top It's more of a You'd give that to your kids It's called soldiers So you make toast Yeah And you cut the toast into little sticks

And you'll scoop The soft with that Yeah So that's kind of a thing But it's Low down On the list of Kiwisms Okay

But the fact that It has a name called soldiers I will give One or two points But it's not It's not a New Zealand icon No It's one of the last things

I think of When I think of New Zealand food. But I don't want to spoil his joy. If that's his weird memory of it, that's cool. I love a soft-boiled egg, but it's not kiwi. They're a healthy snack. Soldiers are a very healthy snack. Okay, that was lovely.

I'm really glad that went well. I was worried for some reason that you might not like it, and I was just going to feel embarrassed. But I feel proud. I feel proud of my country. You should. And I'm about to feel proud of my country because barbecue is so fucking good. I knew very little about what made a good barbecue.

So as always, went out there, talked to some people. At the time when I was talking to people, I was sort of around the Dr. Pepper Museum still. So people had Dr. Pepper on the mind and barbecue, which apparently combined quite well. Mm-hmm. Well, there are some people that really know how to do briskets, low and slow, like you cook them overnight on a pit.

And we actually have a barbecue sauce that has Dr Pepper in it. It stubs barbecue. Of course, there's other kinds of barbecue. There are ribs, then chicken and sausage and all that good stuff. Texas has the best barbecue, of course. What makes a good Texas barbecue? In my opinion, a good barbecue is probably the smokiness of it and how long it was on the smoker for. It has to be done at a low temperature and for a long time. So I'm going to have to say the sauce and it's going to kill all of the big barbecue people out there to hear that. It's frowned upon in the barbecuing community. Right. I didn't grow up in

Texas. I grew up in Tennessee. And so barbecue is just different. I love brisket but I like some good Dr. Pepper barbecue sauce on my barbecue. I love that you extend the brand into our barbecue episode. Very well played. Okay so a good barbecue is going to be outside with people that you like, a couple beers and a brisket that's been smoked for just 10 hours at least. And there's got to be like fresh jalapenos and onions, and you got to have some white bread out there, and you got to have extra barbecue sauce on the side, because I like to dip things, but that's personally.

Everyone I talked to in Texas had such strong opinions on how to have a barbecue and there was no pattern. Some people love sauce. Some people didn't like sauce all over the place. Oh, and I wonder, you didn't get into sides, but I'm curious. We get it like in the dock. There's a lot of sides because that's a huge part of barbecue almost as big as the main course yeah yeah when i was just home for the georgia game georgia tennessee we were victorious congratulations um we for our tailgate got barbecue so it's like you get barbecue but then what are the sides what are you gonna get with it what's your favorite side um Potato salad and macaroni and cheese. Oh, mac and cheese.

Oh, my God. The best. I just noticed as well, you're wearing a piggly wiggly top. Yeah. Which is obviously one of the main bits of barbecue, the pig. And I found out that that's because it became popular because apparently pigs convert food to meat on their own body six times faster than the cow. It's taste, obviously, but it's also efficiency.

But I have such mixed thoughts on this because I love animals, right? But I'm one of these people that still eats meat, which is just completely morally reprehensible. And my only excuse is that I am lazy and I like the taste of meat. It's a horrible excuse. It's the worst. But pigs, I found out, because I love bacon. I like the taste of meat. It's fine. No, it's a horrible excuse. It's the worst. But pigs, I found out, because I love bacon. I'm one of those people. Oh, love.

But pigs, my niece got a pig, George. Oh, no. And George is so- George after Georgie Porgy? I actually don't know. I'll have to ask her. It might have been. Ding, ding, ding.

This pig is so They're so social And so I mean all animals are But pigs in particular Are really social And smart And he had A pet chicken

The pig had a pet chicken Nope Sort of adopted the chicken And the chicken would ride around On George's back And they were best buddies Just George Because there were no other pigs

It was just George And they were best friends And the chicken Called Blackie Yeah Because it was just George. And they were best friends. And the chicken, called Blackie, because it was black, died. And George sunk into a deep depression. He wouldn't leave his little, what do you call it? Pen? His little hair pen for days.

And so I guess this whole time. Why are you doing this? This is a horrible thing to talk about right before we talk about barbecue. I know, it's rough. David. I just want to put that perspective out there where something to keep in mind you just made us eat meat pies and then you tell this story about it's complex and again i'm a bad person for enjoying meat because animals are so social and beautiful does your niece eat meat they all eat

meat i believe but they grow everything that they eat. So that's kind of the way I think you should do it, where they can see where their food came from. It's like, that's George. They're going to eat George? I don't think they're going to eat George. But maybe. Maybe.

I hope not. I mean, I'm filled with guilt with meat. Have you tried to go vegetarian? Yeah, I did for about three months and it was fine. Yeah. But then I just slipped back into eating meat because my biggest thing is McDonald's. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors.

Flightless Bird is brought to you by ZocDoc. Now I turned 40 and so I spend a great deal of my time stewing about potential health problems that I may or may not have and if you're anything like me you will end up diving into a group chat and putting your various questions to your friends because clearly they're the best ones to answer your medical questions. Now, you're extremely unlikely to find quality medical advice in your group chat, but you can find it from a doctor on ZocDoc. Thousands of medical professionals on ZocDoc are ready to help you. They listen like a friend and then they give you the expert care that you need. ZocDoc is the only free app that lets you find and book doctors who are patient reviewed, take your insurance, are available when you need them, and treat almost

every condition under the sun. It's a free app that millions of users rely on, and you can find the right doctor that meets your needs and fits your schedule. You can book an appointment with a few taps of their app and start feeling better faster with ZocDoc. So go to ZocDoc.com slash flightless and download the ZocDoc app for free. Then find and book a top rated doctor today. Many are available within 24 hours. That's Z-O-C-D-O-C dot com slash flightless. ZocDoc.com slash flightless. ZocDoc.com slash flightless.

All right, so this was my journey into the world of barbecue. I want to understand barbecue culture in America, or at least get a small glimpse of it. So I'm meeting up with Daniel Vaughan from Texas Monthly. Dan is the barbecue reviewer for the magazine, as in his entire job is just reviewing barbecue. Dan's eaten at over 2,000 barbecue spots all over the planet, 2,119 to be precise. Most of those places are in Texas, where I find myself today. I'm in Austin, the capital, and Dan's kindly agreed to drive from Dallas to meet me here. He says to meet him on the street at 10.45am on the dot. And sure enough, when I come down from my hotel, he's pulled up and waiting. My work day when I'm out on the road, on a road trip, like starts at 11. That's when almost every Texas barbecue joint opens.

Dan has been reviewing Texas barbecue for coming up on a decade now. If I'm having a good day, I can get to three spots and have like three good, useful visits. And if I can do that at one at 11 and one at noon and one at one o'clock, then I'm doing well. Dan is taking me on a road trip to some of his favorite barbecue spots in the area. This, of course, begs the question, what is American barbecue? You're taking big pieces of meat, usually ones that aren't suited for quick cooking like steaks, and cooking them for a long period of time over low heat to where that heat and the smoke and the fire not only flavors them, but transforms the meat from

something tough into something that is super juicy and tender. So it's sort of like unlocking the potential of that meat. That potential is sort of what's worrying me a bit. The potential of just how much meat lays ahead of me today. One thing I am slightly concerned about, what's the deal with pacing? If we're eating at multiple places today, how do we pace ourselves? Because obviously that first meal is going to be amazing. End of it, we're going to be fucking full. The idea of pacing today, we're going to try and just experience barbecue joy. And, you know, they say that comparison is the thief of joy, right? But like that's sort of my life is comparing one barbecue

joint's offerings to the next. And usually that's by way of like a full tray of all their meats and sides. But today we're really just going to pick and choose some of my favorite bites for you to experience. So today is basically going to be a greatest hits of barbecue in and around Austin, curated by a man who's eaten at thousands of barbecue places. And Dan, I trust. We're going to head over to Micklewaite Craft Meats, so you can get that really quintessential Austin food truck environment. He says a food truck is the equivalent of what the barbecue shacks of a hundred years ago would have been like. They're the entry point for a lot of places that are serving barbecue. We drive past a place called Franklin Barbecue, where there's already a line around the

block. Like me, Dan hates lines and reckons we can eat at four other places by the time the last guy in line gets his meat. We arrive at Micklewaite's, which is in East Central Austin. I get out of the car and notice a guy out back by the dumpster, spraying mosquitoes with a giant can of Raid. We had rain for the first time in three months, which means now we have a swarm of insects. Dan introduces the mosquito killer as Tom McElwain. He's the guy who owns this place. He's the pit master, a word I keep hearing. I've never heard this word pit master before.

Can you just explain this? No, ask Daniel. It's a title that one doesn't assume it's given to you. It's also a title that a lot of people who I would call pitmasters are not comfortable calling themselves, right? It denotes a certain mastery of a thing. It embodies to me the humility in barbecue that's not there in fine dining. Like a chef, they're happy to tell

you they're a chef, whether they're a sous chef or the garde mange. So here in barbecue, I think people are a little more humble about it. I mean, Thomas Keller is not out behind the French laundry with a can of Raid at the dumpster. Me and Dan walk over to the food truck, which is in an area with other food trucks. We approach the window and order. Or rather, Dan orders. I have no idea what I'm doing. There's a little award sitting on the table out the front, announcing Mickle Waits as the 2019 Sausage Kings of Austin. Maybe we just jump right into a brisket frito pie. And some Thai chilli sausage, because that sounds fun. He also orders some barbecue sauce and some Rambler Waters, which is a brand made here in Austin.

You have one of the best jobs I would say on the planet, probably. It is a really good job. Yes, absolutely. I work from my home and then my car driving around or an airport flying to El Paso or Lubbock or wherever to eat barbecue. How did I get it? Just ate a lot of barbecue. It's really what it comes down to.

I moved to Texas in 2001. I was an architect, did that for 12 years. And in that time, I fell in love with barbecue and Texas culture and all of that. He started blogging about barbecue. And like Carrie Bradshaw's blog and Sex and the City, Dan's blog got big. It was a meaty niche that hadn't really been occupied before. and like Carrie Bradshaw's blog and Sex in the City, Dan's blog got big.

It was a meaty niche that hadn't really been occupied before and it led to a job at Texas' grand publication, Texas Monthly. Dan quit his job as an architect and started eating barbecue full-time. That's our barbecue. Great. I don't know if you're familiar with Frito Pie. Not at all. It's like a deconstructed pie by the looks of it.

It is. It's also built deconstructed pie by the looks of it. It is. It's also built on Fritos, corn chips. So great thing about Fritos, there's just three ingredients. It's corn, oil, and salt. All right, so then you got cheese and chili. Those are the three things you need for a Frito pie. At Mickleway, they gussy it up a bit by adding, I don't know,

that looks like a half pound of brisket on top of it. There's a lot of brisket there. And there's some red onions. There's even herbs on it. I mean, cilantro. Yeah. Some pickled jalapenos and sour cream as well. I'm one of those people that's allergic to cilantro. It tastes like soap to me. Okay. All right. Well, I'm anxious to see your reaction to it then. My reaction is to grab the cilantro and throw it away. People who hate cilantro are born that way. It's genetic. I have a variation in a group of olfactory receptor genes that means I can taste the soapy flavored aldehydes and cilantro leaves that most people can't. Basically, my superpower is having taste buds that make cilantro taste like a mouthful of detergent. I look down at the Frito pie in front of me and see something that looks more like a taco salad. America's so confusing.

Let's just start off with some brisket. I'll take the cilantro covered piece here. So you can just get yourself some idea of what we're in for today as far as smoked beef in Texas. It's incredibly tender. It breaks apart in the mouth. Very tender, very salty.

The brisket that it comes from is from the front of the cow. It gets worked a lot. It's a very beefy cut. It really has an intense beefy flavor. I'm no meat expert, but that definitely tastes like beef. That is a cow. That is a cow, yes. Now, one of my main worries about living in America is my health. I'm drinking more Coke and eating bigger portions of food since I've been here. And looking at the food in front of me, I'm concerned. For me and for Dan. I'm 10 minutes in. Dan has had 10 years in this game. It can't be healthy if you're eating this all the time.

Or is it healthy? No, it's not healthy. Taking really fatty cuts of meat and cooking them for a long time until they're tender and making sure to not cut too much of that fat off when you're cooking it so that you get to eat it with the beef. Do you go off and eat a bunch of salads, or is your body just so accustomed to all this barbecue that it's kind of sorting it out? My body's accustomed to it.

I'm certainly not like the pinnacle of health. My prescriptions help out a lot with the blood pressure and the cholesterol. So the doctor keeps an eye on you? Yes, the doctor keeps an eye on me for sure. The brisket's good. The Frito pie is good, even though it looks nothing like a pie.

And for good measure, I wrap the sausage on my plate up in some bread, jam in some jalapenos and pickles, drizzle on some barbecue sauce, and wolf it down. You got the crunch of the pickle, you got the fat from the sausage, and I do love this bread. To be honest, I feel full. Really full. Already. I have bad impulse control. We can't finish the whole meal on the way, else we're just going to be completely ruined. Right, and I don't know, maybe by the end of this trip we'll feel comfortable enough

sharing a pork rib, but that is like another level of a relationship. It's a level of intimacy when you're sharing the rib. The other thing, I'm thirsty. I grab a water and throw it back like someone who's been marooned in the desert for a week. Your body probably isn't used to the salt intake we're going to go through today.

And so you definitely need to stay hydrated. Belly almost completely full, we hit the road out of Austin. Dan points out that plenty of Texans say Austin isn't real Texas, but he says that's a load of baloney. Dan says what makes Texas great is that there are so many towns and they're all different. That's what I love about Texas. The fact that you can go from one massive city to the next and there's a different character and a different feeling to each one. That you can escape all that and go out to the desert or the mountains or get lost in the mosquito infested piney woods of East Texas. They are all possible. As we're driving, I discover something about Texas I didn't know.

It's so free to drive around. The speed limits are 85 miles an hour. You can drive faster here. Yeah, well, we're actually going to go on like the fastest portion of highway in Texas. It's 85 miles an hour. It's a tollway between here and Lockhart. It's like the barbecue superhighway. I glance down at Dan's phone and notice he's using Waze, not Google Maps. As we drive about an hour south, I talked to Dan a little bit about

how barbecue differs all over America. But to be honest, it got too complicated for this episode. All I took in is that Kansas has a lot of pork in their barbecue, while Texas is cow-obsessed. Here in Texas, I mean, it is beef first, for sure. I mean, it's all about the beef brisket is the unequivocal number one world champion, and then beef ribs, beef short ribs, beef sausages. I think it's one of the few places where you'll eat barbecue and have beef sausages. Like me, Dan came to Texas as an outsider. Well, almost. He's from Ohio,

so like me, he didn't grow up around barbecue culture. We're finally pulled up in Luling. The main stretch feels a bit like an old western town. And then right down the street is the watermelon thump seed spitting stadium. What? So they've got the thump. They just call it the thump around here in July. And it's just a big watermelon festival. And there's a big competition and you can spit a watermelon seed and see how far you can spit it. We head away from the Watermelon Seed Spitting Stadium, which is smaller than the name makes it sound, and head into City Market Barbecue, which has been here since 1958. There have been barbecue disasters because there's also a restaurant in Houston called Luling City Market. People have ordered things for

weddings in their wrong city. Why is there a Luling City Market in Houston? Well, Dan says a businessman in Houston loved the sauce here in Luling so much, he lured one of the workers away just so he could get the sauce for his new restaurant, which he named after the place it was from. So now the only way to actually buy that sauce is to go to Luling City Market in Houston and get it from them. The plan worked. The plan worked, but I like the barbecue here better in Luling. Since you don't know anything about barbecue, except what I've taught you today, then maybe you don't know that the sort of myth of Texas barbecue is that we hate barbecue sauce or that you don't get barbecue

sauce with Texas barbecue. That's kind of like tarring the perfectly good meat. Right, it is. But the thing is, every barbecue joint in Texas has barbecue sauce and people eat barbecue sauce on their barbecue here. It's fine. We walk inside and Dan takes me out the back through a swinging door like the one you'd find in an old saloon. And we're in the pit room where the meat is being cooked. There's sawdust and bits of wood on the floor. Amazing. It's pretty warm in here. It's a little warm in here.

These are really just warming pits here. They keep the barbecue warm. From what I can tell, we're about to order the meat that's cooking right in front of us before heading into the main restaurant where there are seats and condiments and drinks and all that stuff. Basically, there's the cooking meat zone and then there's everything else. Emmett greets us with a smile. We're here, we have brisket, ribs and sausage. It's beef brisket, pork ribs and all beef sausage.

And we go by the weight, but you can order whatever you want. You order meat by the pound back here. There's a lot of you behind here. What are you all doing? Everyone's here. We're all men with a purpose. OK, so what we're going to do is he's going to ring you out. We're here to serve you. The man behind the block is the owner. Yeah, that's the pit master. That's the owner. And we're here, what, 11 hours, 12 hours a day,

so you can get a couple words off of him if you want to. The owner, Joey, does say a few words. He's heard my New Zealand accent and assumes I'm Australian, so get stuck right in. So what we do is we get a kangaroo, set it on the table, and we just skin it alive. Well, the joke's on him, because in New Zealand we don't even have kangaroos.

No, but to tell you the truth, Texas is basically the beef capital of the world. You know, we love our beef. And my dad's been doing it for 55 years. Oh, really? Yeah, he's still here, still going strong. So we just do what he says and we follow his lead. And it's pretty much just fire and meat. That's it.

That's what I love about it. It is really the old way of cooking, right? They're cooking with wood, fire and meat. And there's not a whole lot else going on. Joey leads me out the back to meet his dad, Joe Capello. I've been here 60 years. Yes, sir. Out of high school.

What have you learned over that time? Do you have some good barbecue advice or life advice? You gotta have the right kind of wood, post oak, and you gotta have the right brisket. Right wood, right brisket. Right brisket. Can't go wrong. Speaking of brisket, we head back inside to eat owls. But I also wanted to tell you, it's not the microphone that got us back in that pit room. Something that I love about Texas barbecue is it is that welcoming and nearly every barbecue joint will be happy to show you how they're cooking. And if you ask to go see the pit room, they will more than likely show you. It's just that sort of openness and that pride in the way that they're producing their barbecue is something I love. We sit down with our latest meaty treats.

There are no plates here, not even a tray. Our order has just come on butcher paper that's been crinkled up on the side to give it a little structure. So in front of us here, we've got the Texas Trinity. It is a beef sausage, a slice of beef brisket, and some pork spare ribs. And they do it really just basically here at City Market, which is what I love. And by basic, I mean, it's the spare rib. It's not a St. Louis rib or a baby back. They do put a little bit of a sweet glaze on it. But other than that, it's really just salt and pepper on there. The sausage itself, it's a really coarse grind of beef and a little bit of salt and pepper and cayenne. The sausage is made up of all the

trimmings, the fat and some of the meat that's been carved off. There's no wasted meat, as any waste is in the sausage. Yum yum. Oh, again, I mean, I'm not a foodie, so I don't really have much descriptive language, but it just tastes great, you know? Like last time, I forget to take small bites. I'm now feeling really, really full. We get back in the car, and I feel a bit carsick. The thing that you just experienced was quintessential central Texas style meat market barbecue culture. It's a very specific kind of Texas barbecue. And it was born out of these meat markets who they would bring their meat in and certainly wanted to sell it raw if they could. But anything that was getting older

on the shelves, they could throw it in the smoker and turn it into barbecue and prolong its shelf life. Or they could grind it up into a sausage and smoke a sausage. And so that's really where that culture was born. We're actually doubling back to Lockhart, which is officially deemed the barbecue capital of Texas. We pass by some railway tracks where about a year ago, a train hit a giant windmill blade that was being transported across the tracks. There were some injuries and one very gnarly YouTube video. So many of these old American towns have railroad tracks running right through them. That's probably another Flightless Bird episode. Dan says our next destination will show off the old meat market style of Central Texas barbecue. I lick my lips and hope my stomach will cope.

So just cutting in here, Monica, I was feeling deadly ill by this point because I told myself to just take little bites, but I just ate the whole meal each time. David, this is reminding me of Thanksgiving when you ate four whole pies by yourself. I don't know if it's some sort of mental deficiency I've got going on. I don't know. I just can't not eat what's in front of me. It has to all go in.

Are you sure it's not a people-pleasing thing? Maybe out of politeness. Like, I was taught to never leave anything on your plate. That was a big thing. Well, that is also generational. I think a lot of parents,

you know, the clean plate club and... No dessert until you've eaten all your peas. Yes. Now parents don't do that. Our parents are not doing that anymore.

No, they say, like, you can stop when your belly's full. Is that what you do, Rob? We have to do it with Calvin because he'll just... You do clean plate club? Not clean plate club, but he'll eat his vegetables if he wants dessert.

With dessert, yeah. I mean, that's a different thing. But I feel like most parents now are just... You're not forcing your kids to overeat. Yeah, you're not. He also tells he's hungry like an hour later. Oh little shit yeah we know what he's doing yeah i'm never hungry later because i'm just so full i'm struggling right now because i've got this pie and this food okay this is a good time for you to practice i've eaten one mince and cheese pie so far one custard square and i know that's enough but i'm probably gonna eat to eat more soon. What are you going to eat next? Probably another mince and cheese pie.

Oh my God. But I'm going to try not to. I thought you said it was a treat. I ate, I've eaten half of the pie. I'll probably take another bite of the sausage roll. Oh, the saucy roll. I'm going to have a bite of the other end of that. It's really good.

It's weird to be eating this meat while we're talking about American meat. It's confusing. It's the best of both worlds combining. It is. I'm a little sad we didn't get any pork in this. I mean, I get it. Texas isn't about pork. Yeah, but that is the quintessential thing.

To me, it is. Yeah, and that's something that I found out. I felt very lucky to be with the barbecue editor of this giant Texas magazine. But also, as he made clear, we're just touching the tip of the barbecue iceberg, right? And there's so much of this world. And yet everywhere we went felt so different and the vibe was different. And what he said about people being open and friendly, doing this podcast, I'll often try and poke into places. I'll turn up to a Dunkin' Don try to like poke around with my microphone yeah they're not gonna let you back there yeah all these barbecue places probably because they're family owned and

not some giant chain there they're just like come back here yeah and at times like i'm i'm standing next to like big pits of fire and it feels like very intense. But then it's like, oh, fine, come through. Yeah, that's nice. All my clothes stunk of meat and smoke so fucking bad. I bet. It was so intense. I mean, if my chicken excursions have taught me anything, yes. Yeah, this is like your kitchen but a million times more intense.

Yeah, there's a lot of that. But no, the welcoming nature of everything, Texas ruled. It was such a fun place to record in because everyone was just like come on out back do this yeah and i really like that so we're gonna jump back in and you're gonna go to more places you're gonna eat some more meat stick with me where are we going now uh we are headed north into lockhart and we are going to stop at smitty's, which used to be Kreutz Market, basically so you can just shit your pants when you see what this place looks like inside. If the top 50 were judged on atmosphere, they would be at the top of the barbecue list every time, because it's just an amazing, amazing building. was the original, the OG. But a year away from its 100th anniversary, there was some kind of internal family kerfuffle, and Kreitz moved to another location down the road. Roy Perez, who is still the pitmaster at Kreitz Market, had this giant metal pail that he filled up with coals from the pit inside the old Kreitz Market, and he drug them down the street which is like several blocks to

the new kreutz market to light the pits to sort of bring some of the i don't know the aura of the old market into the new kreutz market so we're pulling up at the original kreutz building which is now smitty's this building's been here for a long time. I mean, the basement was built back in the mid-1800s. This used to be a meat market, a place that killed cows and carved up the meat. Out the back is a field just full of chopped wood, a very specific kind of oak found in central Texas. It's there we meet James from Smitty's. So this is all wood for your cooking? Over 100 cords a year. This in front of us right now, how long would this last for, would you say? Three quarters of a year, so seven months.

Turns out James is the oldest son of the owner. How long have you been here for? We moved back from Guam in 72. I was born in Guam. My dad was in the military, and my mom was married to him. So we moved back, and then he started working with my grandpa here. My grandpa worked here, I think he started it before 45 because she bought the place in 1945. My daughter works here. She'll be the next generation. So how many generations of your

family have been involved now? My grandpa, my mom, me, and then my daughter before. Yeah, it's been in the family a while. And before that, it was the Kreitz. And they had it from 1800s till 1945, when my grandpa bought it. It's barbecue, barbecue, barbecue. It's burnt meat. It's crazy. People go crazy over caramelized meat. We all head inside, and I almost walk directly into a little pit of fire.

I mean, the fire's right there. There's no guardrail or anything. It's all out in the open. So if you look at the fire, you can really see the flames. And the flames have a direction to them, right? They're going in toward the cooking chamber. And so this is your classic offset smoker. But instead of an enclosed firebox, the fire's sort of out in the open, right?

But all that heat and smoke is being drawn into this chamber, this big brick smoker here, and then it's being drawn up that big chimney on the far end by the draft. And so you have this continuous breeze of hot smoky air that's going across all of the barbecue that's being cooked in here. So it's all being cooked with indirect heat. I'm getting used to this now. We head up to the counter and order. What do we order? Barbecue. More barbecue.

I touch my forehead and it might be the heat in the room, but I'm pretty confident I've got the meat sweats. Two pork ribs too, please. God, we're going to die. There's so much here. I bite down into a bit of smoked prime rib while talking to an old man sat next to us.

Well, I like the people that run it and they know what they're doing and it's good. There's a lot of barbecue in Lockhart and it's all good. We wrap up our meal and as we're leaving, bump into James's mum, Nina, a kind, softly spoken woman. Her husband, Jim, had recently passed away, and she shows us a bunch of photos displayed on the walls, showing Jim and their whole family. I just remember that my dad was back there being interviewed by a reporter. He was going to be in

a book. Boy, I was here. I took pictures of it. What do you love about this place the most? Oh, I don't know. I guess the memories of my family here. You know, when we built a home in 1991 and we put a fireplace in the living room and we see so much fire down here and we never, not since 1991, 30 years, never put a fire in the fireplace. We get enough smoke down here. If we want a fire, we come down here. Jim said it was a waste of money. I said it has character too. Dad bought it before I was born, so I was raised in it. I have the tales of what they told me I did, falling off a counter and all kinds of stuff, you know, just memories, lots of memories. We head down the road to Cryettes, the place that used to be in the building I've just been in. We go, and what can I say? We eat more meat. Dan gives me a sausage that's shaped like a

horseshoe and makes me bite off the bottom of the horseshoe in my mouth. Sausage explodes in my mouth, hot juices dripping out of my mouth and down my chin. Mmm, I'm getting to it. It's really good. There's just so much. There is a certain level of pressure I feel about eating with someone like you that eats this all the time. I want to keep up. I don't want to feel like I'm sort of lagging behind in any way.

I mean, am I doing okay? You're doing remarkably well. I think this is our penultimate stop. And we move on to our final stop, possibly my grave, considering how I'm feeling right now. Our last location is another food truck, but one that serves a very different kind of southern barbecue to where we started.

We are going to Distant Relatives, which is a food truck that opened in Austin a couple of years ago. So the pit master and owner is Damian Brockway, and he describes his cuisine as modern African-American barbecue. Yum. Yes. And I'm just hoping that when we get there that he'll still have food left because it will be about 3.30 when we arrive, which for a food truck in Austin is pretty late for them to still have food. Thankfully, there's a bit left, and they happily take our order. My meaty journey is about to come to a meaty end.

So Damien Brockway is the guy who runs it, and he really wanted to show off his African heritage. He wanted to bring spices and flavors from that heritage that is being applied to the meats that you would normally find at Texas barbecue, but flavoring them in a different way. What's so great is that in front of me is barbecue chicken, a welcome variety to all the cow packed inside my guts. I'm definitely getting the meaty burps. We burp and you just, it's so rich, isn't it? You wouldn't want to sort of burp in an enclosed space right now. I feel it would just fill the whole room. What's been your takeaway from today? You know, either about the food, the wonderful company you've been in. Oh, my take home is that

I'm impressed with your intestinal fortitude. That's really kind of you to say. You haven't complained. You haven't tapped out early. I was a little worried about you there. Despite being at capacity, I decide that I love Distant Relatives. It's probably my favorite of the day. I love all the history I've seen today, but I also love that this place is doing things completely differently. And like all the places I've been, it's full of flavor and incredibly satisfying. I feel like a caveman standing over my prey, victorious. It's such a simple thing, barbecue, like the ingredients in a way, but the flavor is so intense and so good.

Yeah, and it's something that once you've had a really great version of it, you're just sort of chasing that high over and over. How do I get something that was that good again? What a day. I've had barbecue from century-old meat markets that have been doing it the same way forever. And I've had barbecue from fresh new food trucks, barbecuing meat with new flavors and new ideas. As Joey said earlier, it all comes down to meat and fire. That's it. My body feels punished, but it also feels incredibly lucky.

That was my meaty journey. Wow. And yeah, it really takes me back just listening to that. Yeah, you look sick right now. I would have advised that you did this over three days as opposed to all in one day. Yeah. But we trust Dan. So you obviously went to amazing places, but everyone is going to have their own idea of what the best barbecue place is. And it's going to be so different. I haven't heard of any of these. Yeah, right. I was talking to him because, you know, part of what he does is he rates the top 10 barbecue and he does this in Texas Monthly, which is this giant publication. So his ratings will not break, but they'll kind of make a place, right? And he said the angst sometimes, like the letters and feedback he gets and people have accused him of being you know

paid off by someone else and all that stuff because yeah it comes down even to the day and what they're serving on the day and he might turn up when something is just cooked a bit over or under and that will change his rating and it's all so subjective but his job of getting up driving into a place sitting down and eating barbecue every day. It's such a bizarre lifestyle choice. Have you ever cried from eating something? This is interesting. No, I don't think I have, but I know what you're talking about. I often talk about when you want to sleep so bad, like you laugh yourself to sleep.

Have you had that? Where you're so tired that when you jump into bed, you just start laughing because you're so happy to be there? No. I have it with sleep and laughing. I don't have it with crying and food. Yeah. Have you ever cried and been that emotional over something? I'm surprised I haven't.

I mean, I've definitely had bites of things and felt like I'm changed. Yeah. Really. But I've never cried. Have you cried? No. Surprises me, Rob. I know.

I kind of thought of, I mean, I would say you're the last person in this room I can imagine crying, but also. But the first to cry over food. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting because I was thinking about the emotions around food the other night. I went to a restaurant and it was one of those ones where when the bill comes, you're like, oh my God. I was eating the food and the bill came and it was a lot of money. And then you're tipping on tops. I suddenly, oh God, here's more. And you cried

over that. I felt like crying. But no, I have this thing often and that's why I'm definitely not the right person to be critiquing food at all. The whole time I was eating that food, I knew it was going to be expensive because I've seen the menu. We're in a group. Everyone was ordering, and I was like, oh, no, that duck. And then the duck's the most expensive thing. Ordering all this food, the whole time I'm sitting there eating,

I'm thinking I would just prefer to be eating McDonald's cheeseburger. Do you know what I mean? Sometimes it's always in the back of my mind, no matter how. I know I'm somewhere where like love has been put into it and it's the best thing in the world. But I'm always like, I'd rather just be eating a McDonald's cheeseburger or a Minson cheese pie. Do you think that has to do with,

you're a little bit allergic to the fanciness? Like that maybe. Part of that will be like that in me. Yeah. Of like, oh, they're like trying to be fancy and it's so expensive. And it's not even as good as- And when the chef's telling you what's on the meal and they're just rambling on about these different things.

Yeah. And you're like, oh, shut up. I can see that, but I fucking love it. I'm really excited to go to that restaurant. I see both points of view, but it feels a little bit like that's an anti-classist thing happening with you. Maybe it's something built in that way. Which is weird with your shower curtain versus glass door. Yeah yeah i'm very classist when it comes to shower curtain yeah bring in that glass how much money do you need to make in order to see a menu and not worry

about the price oh no matter how much money i would earn i would always be deeply worried about buying a seat on a plane that's not economy, getting a meal that's expensive. That's deep inside my soul. And that's partly maybe, I don't know. It's just the way I default to it. I don't know if I'll ever get over that. I want you to. Even if I was earning millions, which I'm not, I don't think I would be able to do it.

I don't know. It's some weird barrier in place where I can't do it. Okay. I bet a lot of people listening will love that you just said that, by the way. And they'll think like, yeah, good for David. You should always care about the price. And I understand that, but we have one life and you cannot take it with you.

And there's pleasures to be had. Yeah, this is all true. And you might as well, like if you're sitting there while everyone's ordering and you're like, oh God, like you're not enjoying yourself and you could be having a good time yeah take me to mcdonald's you know yeah i i want you to enjoy your life a little more okay no thank you it's something i will take on board and i mean to barbecue's credit one thing i did like about this was that it is affordable and it's easy. It's such simple ingredients. It's just smoke and the wood and the barbecue and the meat.

And it's all, there it is. It's simple. And I just noticed, I didn't go into sides in the episode at all. At all? No, sides. So mac and cheese is my favorite. That's all I want to say. Yes.

There was some nice coleslaws out there. Is coleslaw healthy? No. No, it's not, is it? It has a lot. Well, it depends. There's different kinds. Some are more vinegar-based.

There's mayonnaise-based ones. You know, something I've found out with food is that if it tastes good, it's probably not healthy. Yeah, I'm going to agree with you on that. Yeah, Matt, did you have potato salad, though? I didn't have any potato salad. Have you ever had potato salad? I have, yeah. It's like your cold sort of potato. It's cold potato salad. Yeah, and I haven't have any potato salad. Have you ever had potato salad? I have, yeah. It's like your cold sort of potato.

It's cold potato salad. Yeah, and I haven't done that. Okay, well, that's an incredible side for barbecue. Okay, next time. Pickles. I love pickles. Spicy pickles. Yeah.

My palate is... Growing? It is growing because with a cheeseburger, I used to take out the gherkin. I just clock this and now I leave it in. Okay. I'm becoming more sophisticated. Okay, good. Thanks, America.

I want to put forward that I have become a lot more American in this because I ate heartily, which Americans love doing. I ate a very American type of food, which is meat. I'm pausing you. This, what I'm eating right now, is rich this meat pie yeah the new zealand food has been a lot both of these desserts are are thick they are rich but you raise a good point you're me and my high horse i am throwing stones yes exactly it was not a good battle to wage today. Yeah, I think America is under siege for overeating and eating richly. And all of this food is very rich. You know, this is true.

I ate too much right now. Thanks for eating it. No, I like it. I'm eyeing out that sausage roll over there. I know. It's good. All right. I will give you points.

You dig it more American. Thank you. 10% more? At least. At least. Yeah. I think I'm up out of the negatives again. Yeah, I will give you points. You dig it more American. Thank you. 10% more? At least. At least, yeah. I think I'm up out of the negatives again. Yeah, I think so. Thanks, Monica.

Bye.