Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Flightless Bird: Beavers

Episode Date: June 6, 2023

This week on Flightless Bird, David becomes fixated on the beaver, the rodent that’s become synonymous with Buc-ees, the giant American gas station. But David quickly learns there is so much to the beaver, the biggest rodent in the United States. With over 15 million of them spread over North America, they were once hunted almost to extinction for their pelts. David talks to Leila Philip, author of Beaverland, an incredible book about how the beaver transformed America. David learns that the beaver was responsible for creating America’s first multi-millionaire and how that money was turned into a real estate empire that we can still see today. David also finds out how important America's beavers were to building America and how we might need them to survive on a planet where wildfires are becoming increasingly prevalent. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm David Farrier, a New Zealander accidentally marooned in America, and I want to figure out what makes this country tick. Now since going to Florida, I haven't been able to stop thinking about Buc-ee's. Oh, Buc-ee's is crazy. And the thing with it is, you walk into them, and they're always packed. More specifically, I've been thinking about the Buc-ee's logo, that smiling beaver with its buck teeth and red cap, staring off hopefully into the distance. The Bucky's logo was iconic in the South, branded all over t-shirts and caps and key rings, making the gas station a load of money. But where did that Bucky's beaver come from? Well, Ipana presents Bucky Beaver's Space Guard. Brusha, brusha, brusha, here's the new Ipana, with a brand new flavor, it's standing for your teeth.

Back in the 1950s, Bucky Beaver was the mascot for Ipana Toothpaste, a brand that saw America fall in love with the beaver, with his cries for kids to brush-a-brush-a-brush-a their teeth. Bucky Beaver was such a hit, he ended up in the 1978 film Grease, the line sung by Jamie Donnelly, who played Jam. Hey look, it's Jam! Brush-a, brush-a, brush-a, get the new white pan-a, with the brand new flavor, it's daddy for your teeth! The more I thought about beavers, the more I realized how they're baked into America's DNA. With around 15 million of them all across North America,

beavers are the largest rodent in the United States, growing up to three feet long. And that's not including their ridiculous tail that looks like it's been run over by a truck. The beaver is the state animal of Oregon and New York, a much-loved creature that feels like God ran out of ideas, slapping various mismatched animal parts together to make the beaver. The webbed hind feet of a duck, the five front fingers of a raccoon, the face of a bear, the whiskers of a cat. Unlike humans, beavers' teeth grow non-stop during their life, so they whittle them back as they chop down trees. And it's that tree chopping and damming of waterways, along with their incredibly warm and waterproof pouts, that have literally seen beavers alter the course of American history. I wasn't joking when I said beavers are built into America's DNA.

beavers are built into America's DNA. So, get ready to chop down some trees and dam up those waterways, because this is the Beavers episode. I'm a flightless bird that's down in America. It's my mission in this episode, and I know I tend towards animal episodes. Yeah, we've had a lot. We have had a lot. Animals are great though. I'd like a break. They're the best. My job in this episode is to convince you that the beaver has been so transformative to America

that you'll never look at a beaver in the same way ever again. Wow. That's a big ask. And you should know I'm at a zero and you're trying to get to a hundred. I'm going to get you to a hundred. Wow. Yeah. When you think beaver.

Yeah. Because to be honest, until I started looking into it, I watched some nature documentaries at school as a kid. Sure. I built dams, you know, they dam up waterways. They've got those teeth, blah, blah, blah. What do you think about when I say beaver? That's what I think about.

I think about dams and bushy tails. Bushy tails. Wonder they don't have bushy tails. Oh, fuck. They've got sort of flat, they've got flat like a paddle because that's how they paddle along. But is it a bushy paddle? It's not. No, not bushy.

Oh my God. Okay. So apparently I know nothing. And then also, of course, the thing we're only going to say it once on this episode that it's a euphemism for a woman's vaginal region. It is. I've got a couple of facts about that so we get out of the way at the top. Okay. Okay? It's British slang for vagina

that was first come up with in 1927. And it came from an earlier meaning of a bearded man or the appearance of a split beaver pelt. What's a split beaver pelt? So you get pelts from beavers to make hats and various things back in the day. We're going to get into that in the documentary. But beaver pelt is sort of hairy and then you split it. But wait. Split a beaver pelt. Hold on. Looks like a vagina. Rewind. What is a pelt? A pelt is when you

skin a beaver. Oh. Which we'll get into in the documentary because this is how it starts to transform America is the pelt of a beaver. Oh. Which we'll get into in the documentary because this is how it starts to transform America is the pelt of a beaver. Okay. So you skin it and then- You skin it. You make it into a little hat. Pelt's any animal though that you skin.

Yeah. Pelt of a deer. Oh. Pelt of a sheep. So it's just a piece of the skin. Yeah. You could skin me and it would be a David Farrier pelt. Ew.

And then they make a little incision in the middle or like a slit. I gotta be honest. You're cutting it off. Yeah, so to get the skin off a beaver, you've got to cut the skin off. I see. So is a pelt like when it's flattened out? Yeah. Got it. Thank you, Rob.

And there's a limerick. This is the last thing I'm going to talk about it in relation to vagina. There's a limerick from 1927, which is. This is the last thing I'm going to talk about it in relation to vagina. There's a limerick from 1927. Sing it. Which is when it got, I'm not going to sing it. Sing it. Which when it was popularized as meaning vagina. And it goes like this.

There was a young lady named Eva who fills up a bath to receive her. She took off her clothes from her head to her toes. Then a voice at the keyhole yelled, Beaver. What? Essentially, there's a guy looking through the keyhole as she strips naked awful and he decides to yell out beaver when he sees i suppose her naked body and that solidified in certainly in british culture which then transferred to the united states the use of the word beaver to mean vagina what's your favorite word for vagina? Let's try to get you cancelled. Always the worry with the podcast.

Just always talking, hey, blabbing away, something's going to get, I'm not going to answer that. No, I'm trying to think now. I know yours. Yours is the C word. Oh. But maybe not for a vagina. No, no, no. You just like that word, though. It's like for, in New Zealandaland and australia the c word while still offensive is kind of used in a much more light-hearted way like it's a good c word but

for vagina look i just vagina just say just call it a vagina okay that's a great vagina that's kind yeah do you know the difference between a vagina and a vulva i look can we not get into all of this no you decided to do an episode on beavers. I wanted to get this out of the way at the top. I just wanted to get the point across that beaver can be used for vagina. Thanks for telling us.

Did you watch the show Three Angry Beavers? Ever? No, is it a vagina show? It was a Nickelodeon show when we were kids. Oh, wait, that does sound... No, is it just... Two Angry Bea kids. Oh, wait. That does sound. No. Two Angry Beavers. It's not just Angry Beavers.

I think it's the Angry. What happened? Is it a cartoon? It is Angry Beavers. Yes! I do know it. What happened in the show? They drew all these vaginas and then they were animated. One was like dopey and one was a little angry one.

It was a cartoon. Oh, that's so cute. I didn't even know and one was a little angry one. They just, it was a cartoon. Oh, that's so cute. I didn't even know that. Some other beaver facts. Okay. The second largest living rodent after the capybara. The what? The capybara is, and it's the largest rodent in North America.

Capybaras are those cute things you see. They always have other animals sitting on them. Like a monkey. Capybaras are those cute things you see. They always have other animals sitting on them. Like a monkey. You see monkeys riding them. Frogs.

All sorts of things ride on capybaras. Okay. Are you saying kookaburra? No, I'm not. I'm saying capybara. Actually, I don't even think I knew a beaver was a rodent. Yeah, crazy, right? It's a rodent. I think I just thought it was a regular mammal. What? Yeah. No, rodent. Yeah, crazy, right? It's a rodent. I think I just thought it was a regular mammal.

Yeah, no, rodent specifically. The longest dam a beaver has built that humans know about is 2,790 feet. Wow. Big dams. So these are big things they're building. How many beavers does it take? Sounds like a joke. Cracking yourself up already? To build a dam. It depends how big the dam is. David, did you do any research?

No, that's the little tiny dam. I mean, another fact here that I found out, four beavers have been observed rolling a hundred pound boulder. So, four beavers rolling a boulder, that boulder could dam something up. And so, maybe four's your answer. Do you want the real answer? Yeah. All right.

So, there's no set number, but it can hold anywhere from a pair of beavers to 10. Okay. To make a dam. Well, they live in the dam. So, I would assume the ones that are living in are making it. So, yeah. They digest their food twice. Ooh.

So, when they finally do a little poo, it poos out sawdust. Whoa. I like that. I wish we had that. Human poo is one of the worst things. I know. Only worst thing is probably dog or cat poo. But human poo is pretty bad.

Horse poo? Ew! Horse poo doesn't smell. Like, it doesn't smell. Yes, it does. It smells, but it doesn't smell like a human poo or a cat poo or a dog poo. It smells awful.

Horse manure is terrible. I disagree. And, like, if you're walking down, you know, in New York when they have the carriages and then they just have huge poops. It's not great. I agree it's stinky. But if a dog poo was that big, it would stink even worse. They're eating meat.

I feel like horses are eating grass and stuff and hay. It's not the pungent, meaty, disgustingness of a carnivore, you know? Maybe. It's all opinions, though. It sure is. It's all opinions, though. It sure is. It's subjective. And also, some of the oldest animal effigies, things humans build to pay tribute to an animal, are beavers.

The earliest human carving, 11,500 years old, was carved using a beaver jaw. Ooh, okay. And ancient beavers used to be the size of a cow. Oh, cool. Two meters long, huge. Wow. And they used to roam what is now North America. I would like to see a huge cow-sized beaver.

If they still existed, I would get you one immediately. Oh, my God. And it would be a comedy. It would be you and the giant beaver living together. It would be a sitcom. And all of America would watch it. Okay, so you're starting to go, wow, the beaver? They're shitting out sawdust.

That I like. They used to be the size of a cow. That's cool. Humans have always loved them. I know, but these were great facts. But I'm not to why this is important to America. I'm still at zero there. Okay, well, look.

Let's roll the documentary because I've been working very hard on this. Oh, God. Okay. When it comes to America, it's hard not to think about rodents. I still remember my surprise when I first saw a gopher head emerging from a hole in the ground while I was at the park. It was like a cartoon as it gawped up at me as I ate a bag of crisps. I remember my first rat in New York City, giving exactly zero shits while it scurried down the tracks of a subway tunnel. Officials estimate the rat population of New York

currently sits at about 2 million, spread out across 90% of the city. For me, rodents are personal too. My run-in with the biting end of a squirrel led to my first encounter with the US healthcare system. A rodent had declared an act of war, and the casualty was my ego and bank account. The simple, unescapable fact is that rodents rule America. And one rodent, the biggest one, rules the roost. My name's Leela Phillip, and I really have fallen for beavers. Yes, Leela Phillip really has fallen for beavers, America's biggest rodent. She spent years writing a book about them called Beaverland.

It's the best book about beavers I've ever read. To be completely honest, the only book about beavers I've ever read. It was a kind of fever dream that just went on until it was done. To be completely honest, the only book about beavers I've ever read. It was a kind of fever dream that just went on until it was done. But when it was done, it took so long. I spent six years on it. I thought, well, really, I'm done with beavers. But I just finished writing a long piece about what the beavers are doing right now near my house.

So I guess I'm not done with beavers after all. Leela lives right up the top of America in New England, and some beavers are rebuilding their broken dam near her house. They're following her, or she's following them. She's got beavers on the brain. That's because in writing her book, she discovered just how intrinsic beavers are to the United States, how they shape the country, and how they may well help shape its future. I had no idea about any of this when I started. I didn't set out with a thesis like, I'm going to tell the story of how beavers made America. I really started following beavers and researching them and learning about them. And then six years later, I figured out what the story was. And then I was like, holy cow, beavers made America. You know, really? I'm not kidding.

There are a few ways beavers shaped the United States. And I'm not just talking about the toothpaste or backies. The first multimillionaire in this country, John Jacob Astor, got his start trading beaver fur on the wharfs of Manhattan. And that's why the first seal of Manhattan has a beaver on it. I Google the seal of Manhattan and there in the middle, under an eagle and between a settler and a Native American, is a beaver. And not just one beaver. There's two beavers. I mean, if you think about beaver fur at that time, and a beaver hat was actually a valuable item.

It was the Gore-Tex of its day. A beaver hat was not just fashion. It was the most durable, warm, rain-resistant gear you could get. Now, before John Jacob Astor became the first multimillionaire in the US, he was a German immigrant who wanted to start a music business in Manhattan. It was 1984 when he boarded a ship from Germany to the US armed with seven flutes. Yes, flutes. He was a flautist.

Or is it flutist? Who knows? Soon, he wouldn't care much about flutes anymore either. But on board the ship, he overheard traders talking about this item that they could get very inexpensively in North America and trade in London for a markup of something like 800, 900 percent. And he listened and listened. And then he figured out they were talking about beaver fur. So as quick as he could, when he got to Manhattan, he sold those flutes, just forgot about that music business and started buying furs.

And very quickly, he became a fur trader of note. He started trading furs up the Hudson River, and then he went west towards the Great Lakes. And at that time, if you wanted to be a fur trader, you had to get up to Canada and start trading furs with the big fur companies like Hudson's Bay Company that were already established up in Montreal. So as soon as he makes it in Montreal, he knows he's made it,

and he establishes the American Fur Company. John Jacob Astor was a brilliant businessman. Soon the flutes were in the bin and his dreams of starting a Manhattan music school were long gone too. But as well as being a brilliant businessman, John could also be described using words like duplicitous and completely scurrilous, which Lila does. He was duplicitous and completely scurrilous, which Lela does. He was duplicitous and completely scurrilous. Now my brain tunes out when it comes to history, but stick with me. Back in 1805, President Thomas Jefferson commissioned the Lewis and Clark Expedition, a mission up the Missouri River to explore and map out newly acquired land.

Jefferson wanted to spread democracy while exploring the west of the Mississippi and all the new territories. He did it, but it was expensive. After the Lewis and Clark expedition, the new government doesn't have enough money to go set up trading posts. Enter American fur company head honcho, beaver mogul, John Jacob Astor. So he pretty much dupes Jefferson. Astor says, oh, I will go with my new company and we will spread democracy. Of course, that isn't what happens. Astor's company is on paper only, sets up a monopoly all the way to the Pacific. And he founds the very first trading post on the Pacific coast in Oregon and names it, of course, Astoria, after John Jacob

Astor. And he sets up a global trading empire. It's brilliant. It's extraordinary. And it's ruthless. And there are no anti-monopoly laws at that time. But if there were, it would have been illegal. Anyway, what happens is by the time he sets that up, we're talking 1811 when he founds Astoria. because the exploitation of the beaver is so ruthless. And the beaver are gone, but Astor doesn't care, because he's got a global trading route established. He's got control of all the trading centers, and he just trades other things, and he invests in real estate, and his empire is built. And evidence of the empire he built still remains. Hundreds of thousands of massacred

beavers in their pouts paving the way for a New York real estate tycoon. So the New York Public Library in New York City is funded with Astor money and you have Astoria Queens in New York City and the Astor Place subway stop still has a beaver mural on it. So, you know, the rest is history. But it is a fascinating history. It's before coal. It's before oil. The first great wealth came from beaver fur. America's first multimillionaire, all because of the beaver. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors flightless bird is brought to you by better help now i don't know about you but most of my week is spent interviewing people and researching for the show as my own sanity slowly fades into the

background sometimes i think most of us like, spending so much time on work and family and friends and other people, and not so much on ourselves. Obviously, there needs to be more balance. I'm making a conceded effort to check in on myself a lot more to figure out how I'm doing, because when I'm in a good mental space, everything else tends to fall into place much more easily. A good way to keep yourself in check is through therapy.

Recently, I've found it super helpful in learning more about my attachment style, which is a whole other topic for another day, but it's been a bit of a revelation. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online, it's designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists at any time for no additional charge. The online interface and app also makes it really easy. Find more balance with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash bird today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash bird.

So yeah, it's batshit, right? Hold on, hold on. Before we move on. Yeah. I have a question. Yeah. I'm always scared of this because I'm like a slight expert by the end of these documentaries, but also incredibly clueless. Okay.

Is John Jacob Astor, John Jacob Jingleheimer Smith, his name is my name too. I don't know what the fuck you just did. I feel like I'm having a stroke. Do that again. John Jacob Jingleheimer Smith, his name is my name too. Can you please explain what's happening? That is a nursery rhyme or fable or talking point that when you're a kid you do. And limerick and tongue twister. Yeah. And I've never heard the name John Jacob before. So I feel like John Jacob Jingleheimer Smith,

his name is my name too, is based off John Jacob Astor. That would not surprise me because it's insane, his footprint in the United States. All his beaver empire money, he transformed into real estate. Astoria is called Astoria after his surname. Is the Waldorf Astoria? Probably. Probably. It's like all over New York.

Once you hear it, you can't unsee it. Like the library. Yeah. It's all him. And that was just because he saw the beaver. He's like, that beaver pelt can make me millions. He tricked a president into letting him spread democracy, but he was just setting up trade posts.

Wow. He also died on the Titanic. What? What? What? Yeah. This is fucking insane. Wait, which one? No, no. John Jacob Astor or James O' is fucking insane. John Jacob Astor. Wait, which one?

Astor or Jingleheimer Smith? John Jacob Astor. He was an American business magnate. He died in the sinking of the Titanic. Rob, you chip in with some good shit. This is the best thing you've ever done. Oh my God. So, I don't know.

They need to make a movie out of him. Well, they made Titanic. That was a huge movie. I focused I don't know. They need to make a movie out of him. Well, they made Titanic. That was a huge movie. He focused on the wrong person. It's like a minor point as he like sinks into the ocean at the end. Oh, my God. He's probably one of the rich people who just were eating their caviar as the boat is crashing. They refused to like acknowledge it.

Wow. Insane. they refused to like acknowledge it. Wow. Insane. It also makes me think of Lois and Clark, the new adventures of Superman because of the Lois and Clark expedition. I wonder if that was related at all.

Probably not. This is very fascinating. I'm up. I'm up to 70. I think I knew about the beaver at the subway station. What I hope with this, because I'm going to New York to make a pizza episode soon, because it's like one of those things, once you know it, you just start to see beavers everywhere, which is kind of amazing.

There's also this indigenous story I came across about the great beaver, which is this story told in a lot of different indigenous communities. But this relates to America and Massachusetts. It's told in a lot of different indigenous communities, but this relates to America and Massachusetts. According to Native American myth, Sugarloaf Mountain is the carcass of a human-eating giant beaver who lived in a lake now occupied by the Connecticut River. So I think this is about aesthetics. Why we haven't embraced the beaver more because they're not the cutest. I get into this a little bit in the next part of the documentary because despite their amazing engineering skills,

they're one of the least studied animals. And it's because essentially, I think you're right, they're not cute. They're not cute and cuddly. They're a mess. It's like they're bits of other animals. This makes me sad for all of the ugly people. I mean, it's like a metaphor. Well, no, it's like beauty rises to the top.

Cute animals are taken over anything else. You're completely right. Like beautiful people rise to the top. Despite what they have going on versus somebody else who's a great engineer. I like how you pointed at me. You said that? That's very nice of you. I was actually pointing to your hat because you are wearing a Bucky's hat right now with a beaver on it.

And I also, I feel like we even don't think about the beaver that much. To some people, see the Bucky's logo and don't even really go, oh, that's a beaver. I love the beaver. They're like, that's a Bucky's thing. A Bucky's thing. Yeah. All right. Are you ready for part two?

Yeah. You're at 70% of America's being influenced by beavers? Yep. Let's get you to 100. Major cities and universities have beavers in their seals, et cetera, et cetera. I mean, I did a study of this is on more roads and cutouts and schools and mascots than any other animal. But we kind of have taken the beaver for granted. Maybe we take the beaver for granted because they're out of sight, out of mind, scooting around underwater with their

mismatched but somehow perfect body parts. They are weird. They've got these beautiful bear-like faces and these nimble fingers. I think their tail is quite extraordinary. It's this strange, flattened expanse, but it has so many blood vessels in it that in the summer it helps cool them. In the winter, it helps them because the tail is a big repository of fat. So that's where they store fat and they live off that. So it's their refrigerator in the wintertime. And then we believe that it's one of the ways they're able to sense water pressure. Beavers need to know water pressure because they need to know what the water level's doing. Their job is to keep their dams dammed. The second a leak starts and the water level changes,

a beaver's there to repair it. The dams need to keep the water locked in and their lodges, what you call a beaver house, need to have their watery entranceways maintained. One of the facts about the beaver that I find really wonderful is the baby beavers, their blood chemistry is such, they're so full of oxygen that they can't dive. And so they actually can't get out of the lodge, which I think is kind of just so amazing. So they're stuck in the lodge and until they're old enough to dive and swim properly, they can't get out, which means it's sort of like a built-in

babysitting system. If individual beavers are amazing, groups of beavers are a revelation. There's a reason their faces appear on the logos of engineering schools in California, Massachusetts, and Alberta. They're amazing engineers. Their dams work better at water management than any human dam. But the thing is, we don't really know quite how they do it. Beavers don't have a central authority. They're not hierarchical like bees. There's no alpha beaver, there's no boss beaver. We're not exactly sure how they organize themselves when they build these complex dams. There is a kind of collective intelligence that they manifest that might be more

like termites or ants or bees, where they follow simple rules that are initiated by environmental cues. So there's a kind of collective intelligence and they can do really amazing things that are more than the sum of one individual. The reason so much mystery still exists about them is probably our long history of treating beavers like a rodent, as in like a pest. Leela tells me that while more charismatic animals like wolves or bears or lions get studied, beavers were never at the top of the list. But more recent studies are starting to show that beavers' behavior is certainly more complex and nuanced than the termite. More recently, we have begun to discover that, for example, rescue beavers in captivity will discriminate between objects that they play with and objects that they work with. So that's really interesting.

So it's not just instinct. They don't just take any old thing and start building a dam with it. So there's like this rescue beaver that's getting a lot of attention. And they give her balls and she plays with them. She loves them. The beaver's name, by the way, is Nibby. But if they try to give her a ball in her dam building area, she gets really upset. She's like, no, that's for playing with. Sticks are for building with. You know, she really gets

mad. And it's really interesting. So she's got in her mind, she's got a clear division between what is what. And that's not just like an algorithm of pick up a stick and put it here, which is sort of what a termite might do. It's a lot more sophisticated than that. So I think beavers are going to show us a lot more about who they are and what they are. Once we really start studying them, we just haven't. Leela says this lack of scientific interest has been sad for her to see, because we as humans can probably learn a few things from the beaver. I'm actually reading this 18th century Mexican Jesuit humanist, Rafael Landivar,

who wrote this beautiful poem where he sees beavers kind of the way Virgil saw bees. Virgil saw bees as this ideal republic, this model society. The thing that Landovar saw in beavers and that he thought was so amazing about them is that they work with this extraordinary lack of aggression and ability to cooperate. And increasingly, I was thinking, we are so brilliant. We have so many ways of solving our problems. We have all the technology we need, but we can't seem to get along. So maybe we just need to be more like beavers. And while we may not have the beavers back, they tend to have owls. Beavers are what scientists call a keystone species, a species that has a really big effect on the environment despite their relatively small population.

They're also ecosystem engineers, building like the busy beavers they are. Historically, beavers have been good to humans, and not just because of their pouts. They create wetlands, a natural barrier for out-of-control wildfires that tend to ravage parts of America. A piece in Scientific American recently pointed out that beavers are so good at fighting megafires that some researchers averaged the U.S. Forest Service to switch mammal mascots from smoky bear to smoky beaver. You know, every beaver pond we need to think about as an aquatic basin with a huge sponge underneath. So a beaver pond holds almost three times as much water underneath it as it does the visible water on top. So that's a crazy amount of water everywhere.

So that really changes, I think, the way we start to see the land. When beavers were made nearly extinct due to hunting, entire ecosystems got wrecked. As Leela writes in Beaverland, before the 1600s, a great deal of America, from west to east, had stretched out as one great beaverland. Before the 1600s, a great deal of America, from west to east, had stretched out as one great beaverland, complex waterlands under the control of beavers and their dams. They helped make America what it was, shaping the land around them. Beavers really shaped the land. The hydrology of this country relies on beavers. And this is why they're so cool and why they're so important to us now. Because the problems that we're facing with climate change, drought and wildfire and flood all have to do with water.

And beavers manage the water in our continent. And they are historic river keepers. So when we wiped out the beaver through the fur trade, it was really one of the first great environmental devastations on the continent that geomorphologists now call the Great Drying. So we really need these beavers to come back and help us. So we really need to stop thinking about them as pelts and pests and think about them as highly trained engineers, really, you know, out there. Thankfully for the beaver, pelts don't go for what they used to. They're about $20 each these days. No one's making millions out of them. But trappers still make a humble living, helping out homeowners who don't want ponds and waterways encroaching on their land.

living, helping out homeowners who don't want ponds and waterways encroaching on their land. But there's still land in America not covered in people, and Leela hopes beavers are encouraged to return more. And more than that, to live alongside humans, too. We have a lot of bits and bobs of open land throughout the country that beavers could be in working and not creating problems for humans. It's just people haven't thought about how to put them to work or let them coexist because they haven't valued what they do. People haven't really thought it through. So that's part of why I get so kind of passionate about the subject

and why I have so much fun talking about this book now. She's not just talking about it in the book. She's talking about it with anyone who'll listen. Me, you, and her neighbours as well. Those beavers near her house, the ones rebuilding their dam, they're doing that because a neighbour wrecked their dam. Not out of a hatred of beavers, more out of not knowing how complex they are and how to deal with them.

Well, you know, it's common practice here in New England because beavers bring water. I mean, this landowner was legitimately worried about their road. It's just that they didn't understand that there are other ways to manage the problem. And I actually reached out to them and spoke to them. And going forward, they've agreed to deal with the problem in a different way. So actually, they were open. So I think a lot of times beavers suffer just because people don't think it out. You know, it's not necessarily bad intention.

Sometimes it is. But we have a long history of thinking about them as pelts and then pests. We don't really have a long history yet of valuing them for what they can do for us. After talking to me, Lila says she's going to go on a walk to see how the Beavers Engineering Project is doing, their rebuilding project. She says Beavers have fundamentally changed the way she views our relationship with the natural world and how she views the United States. And she hopes that with her book, others will start seeing beavers in a new light too. Certainly more than a Bucky's logo or an old toothpaste commercial. So the beavers that I'm watching restore this section of the river near my house. You know, it's just incredible

what they're doing. You know, now when I watch them, I'm just in a state of awe i love beavers now there's some amazing aerial photographs of areas in america that have been taken out by wildfires and there'll be all this burnt out area and then there'll be an area that has beavers in it and it's just lush green forest that's still there wow yeah like they're this amazing fire blocker and that's something i'd never ever thought about never oh my god they are so underappreciated yeah they are so beaverland's her book i haven't been this enthusiastic about a book in so long i didn't give a shit about beavers i read beaverland and i'm like holy mack what i've talked about i feel like is about five percent of cool beaver shit that is really fascinating also you did a little gasp at

this description of a fatty beaver tail because it is kind of disgusting apparently boiled beaver tail which i don't encourage anyone to do tastes like cod oh and catholics used to eat the paws and tail every friday oh my god there's a little fun fact for you i have an update on jacob astor okay so it was his great-grandson that died in the titanic but he was the richest man on the titanic so that money came it came right through very generational yes so when they make the, maybe that could be the end. There's a scene of him drowning on the Titanic. And he's like, oh, man, I wish I'd spent more time with my great grandpa. And then it flashes back and the story pivots.

And it's about the making of America's first multimillionaire. Wow. Okay, so we're going to have to take back that that was the best thing you ever said. It's the worst thing you ever said. No, it's still really good. I mean, I couldn't believe it. Wow. Well, first of all, while we were recording, you said you wanted to fuck a beaver.

And I just want to out you for that. Yeah, I was just, I guess I was good. You said they were hot. Yeah, there was a part in the documentary where I sounded a bit horny for the beaver. Yeah. Also, there was a beaver researcher who got really ignored at the time, but scientists are now looking at her findings and going, oh, you are probably right. Dorothy Richards. In the 1930s, she founded the first beaver sanctuary, and she lived with 15 beavers in the house.

Oh. And there are amazing photos of her at her dining room table. I don't recommend doing this today. And she'd be eating her dinner at one end of the table. And this beaver would be sitting on a chair eating their dinner at her table. Do they bite? I don't know. I mean, they do bite trees. I think if you probably shoved your hand into a beaver lodge. Oh God, David Farrier style. Just to give them a little scratch. Yeah. I think they would absolutely bite you. Yeah.

Also, find that fact about the babies having more air and oxygen in their blood. Yes. To keep them buoyant. The beaver lodge is in the dam and it's completely dry. But to exit, you've got to dive down through the water. Right. And they try and do that and they'll just be floating, which is so frigging cute and smart. It's so cute and so smart.

Evolutionarily, that is so amazing. I mean, I'm pretty angry right now because I don't think beavers were on the sentientanimals.org list. Seriously? I don't think so. And they should have been definitely on that list. Yeah, like number one. There are so many amazing facts about them. I'm just surprised none of us have sort of clocked it. I've seen nature documentaries, they build dams and you're kind of like, that's amazing, but you don't really think about it anymore. But yeah, they're also the best conservationists on the planet, but we just don't realize that. Stereotypes. Well, I very much enjoyed this. learned a lot right um i'm at 95

yeah no i'm at 100 i'll give it to you the shit about how new york real estate the lie that great big fucking library wouldn't exist without a beaver insane yeah that is really cool yay yay you did it thank you i feel like i've come much more American than I have. I've been going backwards a little bit lately. I think I'm on the up. I do too. Thank you. You're at 4.8.

And I don't want to fuck a beef. I was just trying to be funny. Well. I don't. Okay. You said it. That would be illegal. I know.

Not in Florida though. Ding, ding, ding. All right. Okay. Bye. all right okay