Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Flightless Bird: Bunkers

Episode Date: September 13, 2022

This week on Flightless Bird, David descends underground into the world of preppers and bunkers, learning that 40% of Americans believe that stocking up on supplies or building an underground shelter is a better investment than saving for retirement. Joined by Monica Mouse, David discovers that humans have wanted to live underground for the last 2000 years. David interviews ethnographic researcher Bradley Garrett about the mindset of the American bunker enthusiast since Covid and finds out why Brad was arrested on the tarmac back in 2012, spending two years marooned in the UK. David finds out about the American man who wanted to buy a nuclear bunker with 56 bedrooms and calls up a bunker company to find out what’s in their million-dollar bunker package. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm David Farrier, a New Zealander accidentally marooned in America, and I want to grasp what makes this country tick. And what I've grasped is that a lot of Americans are planning for what to do when this country stops ticking. You trust your home to keep your family safe, but there are many threats that don't stop at locked doors and brick walls. Your house isn't made to withstand uncertain dangers. It turns out 40% of Americans

believe that stocking up on supplies or building an underground shelter is a better investment than saving for retirement. But what are people worried about? Well, according to this ad I got served on Facebook for a bunker building company, a lot of things. Natural disasters, home invasion, or social unrest. Now, a few years ago, I would have put America's passion for prepping down to paranoia. But then the pandemic happened. I saw how quickly that toilet paper disappeared off the shelves. Since the pandemic, some surveys have 45% of Americans spending money on survival materials, up 20% on pre-pandemic 2019.

Building a bunker is a step further, but a step that isn't just in the domain of wacky reality TV anymore. And all that worry and dread has meant bunkers are now a multi-billion dollar a year industry. So, grab as much tinned food as you can and say goodbye to civilization as you go underground into your heavily fortified subterranean space. Because this is The Bunkers Episode. civilization as you go underground into your heavily fortified subterranean space. Because this is the Bunkers episode. As an American, what do you think of bunkers, if anything? I mean, I think they're for paranoid people. Do you have a bunker?

Not yet. Does Dax have a bunker? No. No bunker. No, I don't know anyone who has one. And I do have a friend, Eric, who we talk about frequently on Armchair. He's our kookiest friend. He has tortoises.

He's great. Yep, he is great. He's a wonderful person. But yeah, he has tortoises in case the world is ending and he needs to eat them. I thought he was joking originally when he said this. And you know, he doesn't want to eat them, obviously. No. But yeah, it's basically, it's this endless.

It's like, if you're going to buy any animal, there's so much meat and they last forever. It's like fresh forever. Yep. It's so funny. They're the sweetest things as well. I know. I want a pet tortoise. Okay, well, where are you going to put it?

That's a good point. I don't have any outdoor area in my tiny one bedroom apartment. That could be a problem. Bunkers to me are a deeply American thing, probably because I've watched so many reality shows where people have bunkers. You have to educate me because when you said we were going to do this episode, I was like, shouldn't this be for armchair and dangerous? Because this is not what?

No, this is mainstream. And the pandemic did make people more acutely aware that society can potentially change very quickly. The idea of having a safe underground space is really popular. Sidebar, and something I only clocked recently, is that in America, everyone has attics and basements. Yeah, attics are pretty standard. A basement is dependent on where you live. Okay. So I'm guessing New York has more basements.

I'm just thinking of when you're in New York, you've got those little underground, but that's more shops, isn't it? Under the shops, they've always got those stairways where you go underground like a little mall. Yeah. I don't know because I've never lived there. I don't know about apartment. I think of don't know because I've never lived there. I don't know about apartment. I think of every American horror film I've seen. Yes. Because basically I was re-watching Hereditary with a friend.

Oh, I saw that recently. Oh, how scary is that film? Wow. It's so intense. It is and it's very scary, but it was built up for me. I wasn't as scared as I thought it was going to be. Okay. Because that's not scary to me.

No, no. Like spirits and stuff. It's more unsettling. Yeah. Like it's pretty bleak when certain things go on. And towards the end, when things are happening, it's so tense and uncomfortable. Because it's this weird family, awful drama in the middle of the horror. Yeah.

It's a lot. But you weren't like giggling all the way through. It was still like a lot, right? It was. Anyway, the whole culmination of that film was in the middle of the horror. Yeah. It's a lot. But you weren't like giggling all the way through. It was still like a lot, right? It was. Anyway, the whole culmination of that film was in the attic. And I was watching it thinking, in New Zealand, this wouldn't really happen because we don't really have attics.

We have spaces in the roof, but they're not utilized like they are in America with this little stairwell that you can pull down. It's more cut off. And is it because New Zealanders don't care about storage? It's a really good question because there's so much unused space up there. Yeah. I honestly don't know.

If I ever make it back to New Zealand, I'm going to introduce the idea that this space up above you can actually be used. You can put a little ladder up there. Yes. You can have some horrific horror things play out if you're in a horror film. Yeah, you can put your costume boxes up there. All can have some horrific horror things play out if you're in a horror film. Yeah, you can put your costume boxes up there. All of that. But no, with this, I got to thinking about

bunkers then, because obviously with attics, and then you've also got basements where you can sort of store stuff, and then that kind of, I think, goes into the bunker territory where people like the idea of being able to seal themselves underground to be safe. That part is weird to me because I feel like being underground

is associated with fear and being stuck. Totally. I'm the same. In saying that, when I was a kid, I got obsessed with tunnels and being underground. No. I was a weird little kid. And my dad was like the loveliest man and would, you know,

he really wanted me to have a good life in any way he could give it to me. And so while most kids in New Zealand wanted a tree house, I wanted a little tunnel. And my dad, which is crazy to think about, he dug me this tunnel that went like down under our driveway, which structure-wise is probably quite dangerous because you've got cars coming over the top. But I'm not talking like a little tunnel.

He reinforced it with wood. So, if I needed some alone time, I'd just like a little mole disappear under the ground. No. And I'd spend hours under there. Yeah. And I sort of understood the joy of having, because it was my secret space. It's like, where's David? We don't know where he is.

I'd be in my little New Zealand bunker. Oh, my God. First of all, your dad that's so so sweet almost like psychotically kind out there digging for his son like dig me dig me a hole dad dad i want a tunnel build me a tunnel and he did he was out there and built me a tunnel. I can't describe how exciting it was. It had like a little secret lid that was covered in foliage.

So I'd go down in my tunnel and I'd pull the little roof over and put it down. No, but also I have so much anxiety thinking about it.

Did you ever almost get trapped? No, there was no trap. I had a little ladder to get out. But what if it gets sealed too tight? That would be horrific.

But also, everyone would know where I was. They were like, where's Dave? He'll be in his hole. They'd know. Oh my God. You are so cinnamon. You've been cinnamon your whole life. And I actually completely forgot about that

until I was researching this bunkie episode. And I did enjoy it so much. And it's my personal theory that if you are into prepping and having this safe space underground it is kind of fun and it's secretive and it's exciting and i think that's why people get into it in such a heavy way yeah holy shit oh my god what'd you do read books you watch porn that No, it was dark. It was dark? It was, you're underground. There was no lighting. So I'd just be sitting in there in the dark. And there was no internet. Right. So what were you doing?

Just down there. Wait, what? You're just sitting? I was sitting underground. Yeah, because it was exciting. Because I was sort of, my thinking was, oh, no one can find me. Like no one else has a little tunnel and you have an imagination when you're a kid i would have been i don't know i would have been i don't know seven or eight or something like that like i had an imagination maybe the world's come to an end or maybe i'm like hiding from a baddie i had all sorts of things going on in my head stop is a baddie a bad guy yeah baddie the world is made up of goodies and baddies are you unaware of the way the world works monica that's the main rule tiktok trend or something i don't know about

no no it's it's literally it's just a life fact yeah life is made up of goodies and baddies sounds like a bad religious thing that's infiltrated. I love learning about you. Sorry, it's a lot. But one thing I learned as well in researching this topic is that Johnny Depp, back in 2017, he owned a lot of properties that were quite close to each other. And he was getting sick of the paparazzi coming over in drones and helicopters. So he connected quite a number of his homes together with underground

tunnels and i really like this headline from 2017 johnny depp close to completing transformation into mole person dax and kristen and i want to build a tunnel from my house to this oh you just bring this up now you're laughing at me about having my little tunnel you're an adult well we're not really gonna do it we're not really but honestly i want to do it because like how fun and yes exactly you're getting all the things all the things that you were laughing at me for you now understand you're right but i'd be very scared in that tunnel i'd be like running through it so fast because i'm afraid everything's gonna collapse yeah yeah yeah so so you're thinking like quite a big tunnel my tunnel you couldn't run through it you'd like that was the exciting. You'd kind of crawl underground.

No, that's even scarier. That's like so claustrophobic. Yeah, now I think about it. I did just watch that film about the Thai cave rescue and it was so claustrophobic and awful. Also, I feel like I've gotten more scared of claustrophobia and dark places than when I was a kid. I think as an adult, you get more scared, right? I'm the exact same way. I'm way more scared of everything now. And maybe it's because when you're small, like maybe it's just because literally you're smaller. Yeah. So things are less claustrophobic. Less claustrophobic.

There's that. But I mean, just with everything, I feel like when I was a kid, I didn't used to be as scared of heights. Yes. I'm more scared of heights now and speed and all that kind of stuff. I think we just know too much. We know how awful the world is, which is why maybe you're in the market for a bunker because the world is scary. And that's what I learned about in my documentary. But we forgot to talk to people. Oh, I didn't this week. Oh, great. No, so I tried, but no one really knew anything about

bunkers. They're a bit like us, like you, like what, bunkers? Yeah. I started thinking about bunkers and prepping when I saw that ad on Facebook. Like natural disasters, home invasion, or social unrest. I kept playing it on loop, transfixed at the fancy visuals and manly voiceover. They're the safest, longest lasting, most dependable on the market. I'm Clive Scott, owner of Rising S Bunkers. I googled Clive Scott of Rising S Bunkers and found his website.

He was a polite-looking man with a tidy beard. We don't sell fear, we sell preparedness, announced the website. Their logo had three crosses coming out of it. I decided to give Clive a call. Mr. Gary? Hello, it's David speaking. How are you doing? All right. I got Gary, not Clive.

But Gary seemed to know what's going on. My name is Gary Lynch. It's Rising S Company. I'm the general manager. We are located in north central Texas in the Dallas area. Great. And when did you get into the bunker game? Rise and S Company started out as a general steel fabrication company. And then early on, we started building steel storm shelters for both commercial and residential markets.

Turns out, after we built the structure, we added a sink and some beds and a 40-foot escape tunnel. Anyway, it was a bunker. We thought, well, that was cool. Bunkers are cool. I remember when I was a kid, there was nothing cooler than the idea of a personal underground bunker. I look at the pricing of Gary's bunkers. The 8x12 mini bunker comes in at just over $45,000. Then you get up into the Silver Leaf series, which are just over $180,000. Then you go extreme. Bunkers with names like The Patriot, the Fortress,

and the General. That particular shelter has got common areas for restroom and laundry, tool storage, separate utility and power room with workshop, individual suites, large bunk areas. It's got educational facility, the dining hall, a gym for working out, security headquarters. facility, the dining hall, a gym for working out, security headquarters. It's really a good set place for a large type operation. And it's not really considered luxury. You start getting into the luxury series and you'll start seeing them with bowling alleys, greenhouses, swimming pools, hot tubs, game rooms, shooting ranges underground, things like that. Really, the possibilities are limited. If you come to me and said, can you do this? My initial answer is going to be yes, because I can. Anything that can be built above ground, I can build below ground. My only limitations are your willingness to pay for it.

The general, that one he described earlier, comes in at $1.8 million. And while Gary stumbled into the bunker business, he says he did grow up in a prepping household. We did grow up with a prepper mentality. We were always aware of political corruption and never had a full-on trust for what we were told at face value. We wanted to investigate a little further. The United States is a tinderbox. Even the smallest spark can ignite a fire. At some point, I'm afraid that fire is going to go nationwide. Combine that with 20 whatever trillion dollars we are in debt. Our economy is very volatile. We have weather events, got a world superpower in Putin threatening to use nuclear weapons on the rest of the world. How many reasons do you need to buy a bunker? I have to admit, Gary had me starting to think there was something in this bunker business. But I had to get real. Gary was a salesman, a merchant of doom, a man preying on

my own fears and insecurities. I wanted to talk to someone with a more neutral stance on bunkers. I've got a PhD in cultural geography, which is a kind of weird hybrid of anthropology and geography. Bradley Garrett does ethnographic research. He spends time in communities trying to understand how they construct their sense of space and place, and how people transform spaces into places. For his PhD, he immersed himself in the world of urban explorers, people who sneak off into restricted places. For his PhD, he immersed himself in the world of urban explorers, people who sneak off into restricted places, everything from construction sites to Chernobyl. It was while doing that research he snuck into the Shard while it was still under construction. The Shard is the

tallest building in the UK. Brad climbed to the top and took some photos, which really angered the police. To be more specific, the UK Transport Police. And they launched an operation called Operation Cherry. You know you're in trouble when you're being chased by the Transport Police, right? Right, yeah. I mean, it sounds so innocuous. You know, it's like, it's the Transport Police. What are they going to do? Well, I'll tell you what they can do. When you fly into the United Kingdom,

the British Transport Police can stop a plane on the runway, which is what they did, because we were never arrested actually exploring anything. But they were building this case in the background, and they had blog photos and posts. So they stopped the plane on the runway, and they arrested me. And I found out while I was there that they were raiding my house. So they dropped me off a couple days later on bail and i arrived at my front door and it had been taken down with a battering ram and was locked up with padlocks stay tuned for more flightless bird we'll be right back after a word from our sponsors this episode of flightless bird is brought to you by Primal Kitchen. I'm new to America. I'm learning about all the foods here.

All I know is that I really like Primal Kitchen's sauces. They have great products, great ingredients. I have a Primal Kitchen mayonnaise that has avocado oil in it. So I feel a little bit less guilty about putting a bunch of mayonnaise all over stuff because I love mayonnaise. I've been trying to perfect my burger cooking. They're not great yet, but add some of this ketchup on there and I'm sorted. Makes it better.

And very happy. Primal Kitchen products are made with high quality ingredients, good fats from plant-based oils, no artificial sweetener. Big win there. Most importantly, delicious flavor. They make choosing products for you and your family easier than ever. Life isn't meant to be lived with sauce on the side. Put it over everything. Oh, they do a ranch as well. And the ranch is really good. Ranch is something we don't really celebrate in New Zealand.

And I think one of the best things about America is ranch. Can I encourage you next time you order a pizza to pull out that Primal Kitchen ranch and dip your pizza in the ranch. In addition to their delicious high quality products, Primal Kitchen also has a very awesome simple mission, which is to change the way the world eats with real food that uplifts and empowers us, which we love. We're on board for that. You can find Primal Kitchen in your local grocery store,

or you can just visit primalkitchen.com slash flightlessbird to get 20% off your order and get grilling. Flightless Bird is brought to you by Athletic Greens. This is now, it's just part of my day. I wake up in the morning, I mix it into some water, I swallow it, and I can go into the day knowing that I have all the good green things that I need in my life already in my body. I also love to start the day in a routine. And sometimes that means coffee or tea, but then it's a lot of caffeine.

So I've been replacing it with AG1 because it's super healthy. In the morning, I make my bed and I have AG1. And that just psychologically means that I'm ready to do the entire day. It has 75 high quality vitamins, minerals, whole food source, superfoods, probiotics, and adaptogens to help you start your day right. Everything you want to get, you get it all at once. It's a small micro habit with big benefits. It's one thing you can do every single day to take great care of your body. Right now, it's time to reclaim your health and arm your immune system with convenient daily nutrition. It's just one scoop and a cup of water every day.

That's it. No need for a million different pills and supplements to look out for your health. To make it easy, Athletic Greens is going to give you a free one-year supply of immune-supporting vitamin D and five free travel packs with your first purchase. All you have to do is visit athleticgreens.com slash flightless. Again, that's athleticgreens.com slash flightless to take ownership of your health and pick up the ultimate daily nutritional insurance. The American now faced charges in the UK over the shard and his other ventures into closed off subway systems and World War II bunkers. They placed him on bail and took his passport away. And Brad was marooned for two

years in the UK, all his research on hold. Eventually he got his date in court and got a conditional discharge. He came back to America and started writing a book about something he'd been thinking about a lot over his travels. Bunkers. Because of my background in urban exploration, I had been into many of these bunkers. And when I started reading these stories about private individuals building bunkers that were kind of rivaling what governments were building, I knew that these were going to be interesting characters and that it was going to be an interesting story. My entryway was actually a bunker that I had already explored in the UK. It's called the Burlington Bunker, and it's about an hour outside of London under Wiltshire. It was built in 1956. It was the bunker that the UK government would have been evacuated to in the

event of a nuclear attack on London. It was built from an old mine and there was just enough wiggle room in one of the doors that we could kind of pry it open and then reach behind and unscrew the latch on the door. And when the door swung open, it was like Narnia. Suddenly there was this underground city. There were about 90 kilometers of roads, an underground reservoir where they could pull drinking water from, industrial kitchens, BBC broadcast facilities, dormitories. And the coolest thing was a library that had every book and document that you would need to reconstruct the UK government in the event of a nuclear attack. Brad says that he and some other urban explorers published a bunch of photos from inside the bunker, making a previously quite secret bunker much less secret.

made the decision after we published all of the photos of the bunker to put it up for sale. Because what do you do with a bunker that is totally exposed? Who's going to buy this thing? What are they going to turn it into? A data center? A mushroom farm? What do you do with an abandoned government bunker? I love this guy. He was such an amazing find because he's an academic. He's written this book called Bunker. He's also kind of badass. He's explored some of the most closed off secret places on the planet. He's done Chernobyl. He ended up in the UK in this incredible space that they were going to use to rebuild UK society

before the nuclear attack. This guy's kind of outrageous. Yeah, he's a rascal and i kind of identified with him because he got stranded in another country for two years different reason to me wow so yeah this guy's kind of amazing very cool also what a world yeah well that's the thing so there's this world of rising s bunkers that guy who's making commercial bunkers underground but then there's governments that are creating them as well because underground is safe and if there's any kind of nuclear fallout

underground is where we should all go like little moles but is underground safe i mean what are your other options that's the thing it's like where else do you go but it's like everything can collapse i mean this is why at my house they've done all this foundation reporting and soil and blah, blah, blah. When he says you can build anything below ground, that is not true. I am in the process of trying to actually build down. Yeah, right. Not that easy. And it's not that easy.

Yeah, it was quite a blanket statement he gave. Was there anything you can do above ground? I can do underground. I kind of like his enthusiasm. Secret bowling alley is cool. Oh, it's so cool. And this stuff exists if you have enough money. Also, the prices on these things are extreme.

Oh, yeah. $2 million if you probably want that bowling lane in an underground little house. But it's gone far beyond the idea of this tiny storm shelter to protect from a tornado. In America, I mean, I love how far people take things here. Americans can go really big. And part of me kind of admires how crazy those commercial bunkers can get. I'm a little skeptical of this just being an American thing, even though I believe you and I trust you. Well, also, that was in the UK.

Yeah, there are bunkers everywhere. I think what America has done really also that was in the UK. Yeah, there are bunkers everywhere. Yeah. I think what America has done really well is commercialized the bunker and made it and like sold it to people. Yes, we know how to sell. But the names of the bunkers were so American. The Patriot. The Patriot. The General.

It's hard for me to hear those names and not think about a very specific type of person. 100%. And that's where we kind of go to next in this documentary is who is into bunkers and where it goes. But the first thing, of course, we wanted to answer was who ended up buying that British bunker or who wanted that British bunker when they were selling it off. One of the potential buyers turned out to be a property developer from California called Robert Ficino. He wanted to build what he called an apocalypse community. He said that he had a dream in 1986 that he was a sort of prophet anointed to ferry humanity through the apocalypse. And he developed this company called the Vivos Group, which their stated goal is to ferry 0.001% of the human population through the apocalypse into the next age, into what preppers

call the PAW, the post-apocalyptic world. Robert Vecino lost the bidding. I did some googling and it looks like the bunker's still up for sale. A headline from The Independent reading, underground nuclear bunker with 56 bedrooms goes on sale for 435,000 pounds. That's just over half a million US dollars. Not that bad for 56 bedrooms. Now I guess in my mind, Robert Vecino is that stereotypical prepper I tend to think of, someone who's a bit eccentric, the odd apocalyptic vision here and there. But as far as bunkers go, humans have always loved digging.

I think subterranean space is absolutely fundamental to human consciousness and culture. You think about the cave paintings in Lascaux, people that are down there tens of thousands of years ago, putting these paintings on the wall in subterranean space, which was probably a sanctuary of sorts. For thousands of years, we've stored our thoughts and ideas and goods and people and animals underground for protection. And it's also where we bury our dead and this idea that there's some kind of afterlife down there. There's some kind of spiritual significance. So I wasn't surprised when I began my research to find that there were these mythical and utilitarian connections that went back thousands of years. And one of my favorite examples is Cappadocia in what is now Turkey.

There's one city in particular that can house up to 20,000 people underground. There's one city in particular that can house up to 20,000 people underground. They built these ventilation shafts to the surface to get air into the cavern system, which even today would be an incredible feat of engineering. But they built these 2,000 years ago. So bunking isn't a new thing. It's just being commodified more, especially here in America, because that's what Americans tend to do. modified more, especially here in America, because that's what Americans tend to do.

Things were kickstarted by the so-called doom boom of the 1960s, when John F. Kennedy gave a speech urging Americans to protect themselves, and Life magazine featured a prefab shelter kit. Americans built millions of nuclear fallout shelters in their backyards. Nuclear paranoia really has a lot to answer for in all this. And what's interesting about the Cold War is it's the first time where the state abdicates their responsibility to protect people. And they say, hey, this nuclear bomb could drop at any time. And in fact, you should dig up your backyard because we don't have a plan for you. And you should probably have a bunker for you and your family. And we move from that model into the bunkers of today, where the private sector is mirroring what governments were building in the Cold War. The lower you get, the more barriers there are likely to be against blast, heat,

and radioactivity. Brad's book about bunkers ended up being called Bunkers. He traveled to eight countries to explore their bunker culture, from America to Thailand, interviewing over 100 people along the way. Now, it always assumed that American prepping culture was tied in with the evangelical Christian movement and Mormons, people who thought we're living through the end times, people who had a tribulation to prepare for. But Bradley says the ultra religious make up just a small part of the prepping community here. Most of the preppers that I met are worried about the things we're all worried about, about climate change, about the war in Ukraine, about North Korea testing missiles, conflict with China, civil war in the United States. And then that kind of graduates up to nuclear war or an electromagnetic pulse,

which I become weirdly concerned about. Yeah, that's right. In writing this book, Bradley's sort of become a prepper himself. The more research I do into EMPs, the more I'm concerned that this is the thing we should actually be prepping for. Until about 10 seconds ago, I thought of the electromagnetic pulse as the thing of thrillers and action films. Mission Impossible and The Fast and Furious.

400 meters to base. Prep the EMP, let's take these defenses down. You fire off an EMP that disables all electronics, and suddenly Dom Toretto can break into a nuclear facility. But what Bradley is talking about is something much bigger. There was an event in the mid-19th century called the Carrington event. It was a CME, a coronal mass ejection from the sun. Essentially, every once in a while, the sun just kind of burps plasma, and that energy shoots down at the Earth, and it hits the ionosphere, and it magnetizes it.

So this is why we see the Borealis, the northern lights. That's the ionosphere and it magnetizes it. So this is why we see the Borealis, the northern lights. That's the ionosphere being magnetized. There was an event in the mid-19th century where there was a very large burp and it fried telegraph lines across Canada. People in New York City were reading newspapers by the Borealis. I mean, it caused a huge amount of damage and i read some government reports that essentially said that if there were a carrington sized event today that it would wipe out most cars that now run on electricity and computer systems atms would go down phones would go down computers would go down electricity lines would go down as brad's talking, I remember the reason I wanted to talk to him was for an objective

point of view, something different to the bunker commercials on YouTube. But increasingly, Brad's sounding just as worried as the voiceover guy. Or maybe he is being objective. Maybe I'm playing it safe in the typical laid back Kiwi way where we encounter a problem and just go, she'll be right, bro. Cheers. Maybe I need to become more American and actually start being worried. Then I found that the government has actually been investing millions of dollars in upgrading the infrastructure on power lines to be able to absorb an EMP.

But the report also said that they're not nearly enough has been done. Then here's the clincher. I went back and looked at how often these sorts of events happen. And they're about every hundred years. So we're massively overdue for a coronal mass ejection. And this sounds like a conspiracy theory, and I understand that. I have a PhD. I know what this sounds like.

But when I was interviewing people in 2017, 2018, I had them telling me over and over again, hey, you know, pandemics happen about every hundred years and we're overdue for a pandemic. And of course, you know, being the skeptical researcher that I was, I was like yeah whatever i'm sure we have a plan for that and that doesn't mean that you have to build a multi-million

dollar bunker to survive a zombie apocalypse it could mean that if you have the capacity to do so and the space importantly you could stockpile three weeks of food and water and have a backup generator just in case something does happen it sort of gives you some breathing room to figure out what you're going to do and that argument makes sense to a lot more people now after going through the pandemic that in those first few weeks and months we were like what is this what are we doing and we all rushed out and bought toilet paper and bottled water. And I was in Los Angeles and had this epiphany when I went into the grocery store and basically all of the fruits and vegetables were gone.

You can see why prepping became more of a thing during the pandemic. It was no longer the domain of the paranoid. It was a storyline and Curb Your Enthusiasm. He's a COVID hoarder. Albert Brooks is a COVID hoarder. He's a fucking COVID hoarder. Albert's a COVID hoarder. Three weeks into the pandemic, I drove down to Redondo Beach. I had often been running on the boardwalk and people are roller skating and riding bikes and playing volleyball. And I parked at the beach and there was no one there. And I walked over to the cliff's edge and looked down

and the beach was totally empty. And then I looked around me and there was grass growing out of the sidewalk, you know, like growing through the cracks in the sidewalk. And I was like, if this is three weeks, what does three months look like? And then all of these interviews that I had been doing for years with these preppers who were telling me this is inevitable and it's normal and we should just be prepared to deal with these sorts of situations. They suddenly took on a whole new gravity. In writing his book, Bradley has entered the mindset of the prepper, the bunker enthusiast.

And I'm pretty sure some of it's caught. He tells me he was literally digging out his house last week. He's got a quarter acre property in the mountains of California. He's got a backup generator and a crawl space under the house that he's digging and leveling out. He's stockpiling a few things, a few supplies here and there, nothing too dramatic. He's yet to invest in a multi-million dollar professionally built bunker. But he tells me that he clocks life is fragile and that many in America are starting to feel more and more like that. Maybe this is just the world we live in now. People want to go off grid. They want to build something sustainable.

They want to be in a community that is growing food. They want to have complementary skills where they can assist each other in disaster. All of that is part of survivability. And I think Americans have really come to the conclusion today that they want to be around people that they can trust. Relocalization of culture, I think, is where prepping is headed in the U.S. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors flightless bird is brought to you by article now just because we've seen most of our time unconscious sleeping quite possibly drooling all over the pillow it doesn't mean we can't do it in

style i've never owned a good couch in my life. I infamously in New Zealand impulse bought a couch and it's one of the worst. My friends hated me for it. They hate sitting on it. I hate sitting on it. I now have a couch on the way from article that is pretty much my dream couch. It's one of those L shapes. It's supportive. It's comfortable. It looks good. This article couch is going to be the first couch I actually have had in my life that I like. And I'm excited about that. Oh, it's crazy because it's actually cheaper than some of these other traditional retail prices. Like you can save up to 30 percent and the quality is so good.

Yeah, their team of designers focus on beautifully crafted pieces, quality materials and durable construction with a modern aesthetic of mid-century Scandinavian industrial and bohemian designs. It's got fast, affordable shipping available across the US and Canada, and it's free on orders over $999, which is my couch scenario. Oh, perfect. Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. To claim, visit article.com slash bird and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout. That's A-R-T-I-C-L-E dot com slash bird for $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. Things got pretty intense there. Whoa. I like seeing your face as that was going on. Just really quickly, I do want to talk about the coronal mass ejections from the sun.

Because what he's talking about is right. But I, before this episode, googled coronal mass ejection. And there's actually a small one heading for Earth. Like literally it's going to hit tomorrow. No. Yeah, no, it's bonkers. A tiny one. Is it going to affect my eggs?

No, nothing's going to affect all the eggs. Oh, my God, what if it kills all my eggs? I shouldn't laugh. I've been growing them for two weeks. It's on its way. So, I just copied and pasted this news article. The sun is sending a storm to Earth over the next few days, according to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration

Our fiery star, the sun, spit out a series of bursts on Sunday that are now headed in the direction of our planet and could trigger a strong geomagnetic storm So this basically, it's a really tiny one It's scaled from G1 to G5 And if it does get up to a G5 in the future there would be widespread voltage control issues and some power grids could experience complete collapse or blackouts. So we're due

for a big one. It's like in Fast and Furious where they fire an EMP to get through the defenses. It'll just drop out grids. They are trying to upgrade things at the moment so power lines and power stations don't go down. But it's just it's funny it's a problem that i was completely unaware of and it's a real thing and the sun could fart out this little problem to us in the future and that's when a bunker could be handy so just something to worry about it is but when he says i know it sounds like a conspiracy theory it does at this point my brain is fried i'm like what is a conspiracy theory what is not when people didn't believe in covid i was like you guys are crazy but also you guys are also crazy when you believe in q anon like the levels of truth i don't know what to do yeah no totally

and i mean we can't go around being worried about a coronal mass ejection from the sun. But it is something that could happen one day. I'm not surprised that often, but this really blew my mind. Yeah. The fact that this is something that could happen. And, you know, this is a guy who wrote this book, Bunker. He's been investigating bunker culture and survivalist culture. And that was the one thing that really stepped out to worry him. I know.

But then do you think he's just like been so inundated in this that like the fear is contagious? Yeah, it is contagious. Yeah. I mean, he was thinking more like a prepper at the end of his book than at the beginning. And it's like, are you more paranoid or have you just learned the truth about the world we live in? Or probably a mixture of both would be my guess. the truth about the world we live in. Or probably a mixture of both would be my guess.

One question I had for you, thinking about the government in the UK repopulating the planet from their underground bunker, who would you put in a bunker if you were tasked with bringing down, say, five people? Oh my God, only five? I'm going to give you five. Okay. And you would be locked underground for a year

and then you would reemerge to an empty world that you'd then have to repopulate. Who are you taking? Wait, I think we need six so I can like pair people. Oh, pair people up? Yeah. I like this. Okay.

Am I counted? You're counted. You're part of it. I'm in. Unless you want to die up above ground, you're underground. Go underground with them. I'm in. Unless you want to die up above ground, you're underground. Go underground with them. I feel unethical taking a spot.

That's the tricky thing about this problem. The UK government would have to make this decision. Who gets the spot? Yeah. Who goes under? And that crazy American chap who was wanting to repopulate the planet, I think he wanted to take 0.001% of the population down. That would turn into a complete nightmare.

How do you decide? Can you imagine? Tickets for that bunker? That's how you have an apocalypse. It's just a psychology. Putting that out there, everyone will kill each other. They would. They'd murder each other for a spot.

Yes. People would go so septic. Which brings us back to what five are you taking down? I'm going to take Obama. Okay. Obama's there. Does Michelle to what five are you taking down? I'm going to take Obama. Okay, Obama's there. Does Michelle come down or are you leaving her? Oh my god, this is where everything gets very... What about the kids?

No, I can't. Daddy, don't leave us, Daddy. I can't. I want to live. I'm going with Monica. No, I haven't decided yet if I'm going. Why do I deserve it? In the nuclear storm. That's so nice. I mean, we're talking about repopulating the entire.

Okay. I'm not out. I'm not in. Okay, you're not in. I didn't make it. What six are you sending down? And these are people that have got to have skills because they're going to survive when they pop up into a nuclear wasteland. Okay.

Obama. Okay. That's it. That's the only person I feel confident about. He's going to emerge lonely. Fuck. But I also need young people. Yeah, you want some young people because they have the whole future.

And they also have to repopulate the planet. Wow. I wish I had ding, ding, ding prepped for this. No, it's hard. I mean, I'm thinking as you're thinking, ding prepped for this No, it's hard I mean, I'm thinking as you're thinking And I would struggle Does Brad Pitt get to go down there? Now you're in the bunker

Well, he has propofol He's in there, you're there as well He has face blindness and so do you So you guys can't come We want to eliminate that from the gene pool No, it'll be so frustrating in that bunker Because there's only six Every day

Brad, it's me, Monica. Brad, I'm sick of this. There's only six of us. Okay, can't you just know by now? Yeah. Okay, but I do think we do need an entertainer down there. It's the last thing we need. That's a long time, and someone needs to make me laugh.

Or, again, I'm not there. I'm not there, but they need to make other people laugh. So I'm going to say Chappelle. Chappelle's going down? Okay. Obama, Chappelle. I need someone who can build shit. God, if he was here, he'd be vying for a spot

and he'd say he could build shit and fly planes, which he can't do. I don't think I'd bring an entertainer down. I don't think I'd bring Chappelle down. I would. We need a medical person. You need a medical person. You need someone who's maybe good with cultivating plants and stuff

when you come to the top, sort of food. Maybe a therapist to keep everyone on track. No, we don't need that down there. At this point, I don't think, I think I'm assuming the people I'm bringing down have been in therapy and they can then like. They can carry those skills forward. But you're right, like a farmer, like somebody who can cultivate food. Yeah, because you're going to have to get up there and

start things off again. I mean, six is too hard. It's going to have to be a lottery. I think it's also the most cancelable thing you can do as well, isn't it? This is horrible. It becomes really, really tricky. I feel fine saying Obama. Okay. And I'm going to stand there. We've settled on Obama. Yeah. Is Bill going down? I mean, look, I want to say

absolutely because he's so innovative. But he's not a spring chick. He's not a spring chick. We need people who have a lot of life left in them. Yes. I think most people need to be around 20 i think between 20 and 30 well then i'm already out yeah you're out you're not in that bunker i'm definitely not in that bunker okay if you guys want to apply we'll put up something on

flightless bird yeah like maybe just like send us some little messages on instagram or something and let us know who you would put in your bunker because we we have obviously done a terrible job. We did a bad job. Another thing I found out while looking at bunkers, because if you're looking into bunker culture, you inevitably get into preppers and people that want to survive when some awful thing happens. So not just bunkers, but everything. And I came across Jim Baker, Tammy Faye's partner. Yeah, so Jim Baker.

So he used to be into the prosperity gospel, you know, all that kind of thing. And you get a lot of money from people. He got rich. It's done for fraud. Jim Baker is back. He is now into, I wrote the word down because I'd never heard it before, apocalypticism. So his whole TV show currently is being like, the world is ending in our lifetime.

We need to make sure we can survive. And he sells something that I just found very funny. He sells these giant buckets of food. And that's how he makes most of his money now in this business. So I guess the idea is if you had a bunker, you would fill it up with Jim Baker's buckets. But I'll just show you a little video. Okay, you would fill it up with Jim Baker's buckets, but I'll just show you a little video.

Okay. And this has been edited. So it's slightly more chaotic than it would typically be, but this is the stuff he sells for survivalists. Okay. The collapse is coming. Doomsday clock for global market crash strikes one minute to midnight. You hear that John? Bible says you're going to throw gold and silver in the streets. Tomorrow we could look back and say, Oh my God.

The buckets are coming. I'm going to get some. I'm going to buy some. Wait until you see what's in it. Eight years of bulk food. This is what you should be doing. Wow. John, you come on.

You're the rice preacher. You told me to do this. Look, they got shovels. By the way, get a shovel. These are foldable shovels. It'll go in your back pass. This is how you dig the latrine. Ew. We made up. They is how you dig the latrine. Ew.

We made up. They've been cooking during the show. Wow. And this rice is hot. Woo, just me. I could just. Oh, my God. He's eating.

He took a handful of rice and ate it. Buckets and buckets of rice. Ew. This is disturbing. I mean, they just cooked this rice, you know. I'm hungry. I've been on this show for about five hours right now. I shouldn't put my hands in them. Oh my God, he keeps...

I love you, man. I love you too. So this is taking me down a real rabbit hole. I found out that Costco at the moment has a big sale on these survivalist buckets. And I'm going to go and get us some. And I think we should sample for the Instagram some of this bucket food. Absolutely.

These buckets are huge. This bucket looks about, oh, it's almost the size of a small person. I mean, these will be terrible. Two and a half thousand dollars for about 20 buckets on his show. But jim baker is still as bonkers as he's always been yes and purely into prepping using the exact same methods as he was using before it's all fear-based it's kind of crazy to watch right and thing is people are still falling for it because there is a certain amount and this is the end of the spectrum which is more kind of religious the end is coming very soon so we must get ready for it it's that end of the prepping scale but it's kind of fascinating to me i love the idea of just having these giant

buckets of like there'll be chicken and there'll be rice it'll be awful let's try some okay okay let's try some okay but here's the thing In LA We do Like I have a Emergency kit It's an Okay But it's for earthquakes

Because We're waiting for one to hit Yes So what sort of stuff is in there? All kinds of stuff Bandages Mine's really cute I've had a cute one

But yeah There's like You know A little heat blanket Yes You can wrap yourself up In a little bit of foil. Yep. There's like band-aids. I think there's some like food, like bars. And where do you keep that in the house? Is it in the pantry or like the wardrobe?

I keep it in my closet. Mine's not very big. You can get like huge ones. Okay. But if you live in Los Angeles, you need an earthquake emergency kit. Do you have one? I don't have one yet No, I probably need to get one together, right? Absolutely I haven't even felt an earthquake yet Okay I can't wait

Don't say you can't wait We might all die For a little tiny rumble I wasn't wishing the big one upon Los Angeles FYI Okay, but when you buy this food Maybe also pick up An earthquake emergency kit

So you have it Okay no great idea Do you want an extra bucket Just for your house Yeah Because one of these buckets Could feed you and everyone here You can run under

You'll have your underground tunnel To Dax's place You can fill it with buckets And you can both live under there Eating your Jim Bakers food Ew Waiting to surface again Okay but if it's chicken, how does it last?

It's like space food I think it's just sealed in I mean, it wouldn't be good But no, there's bucket meat I'll get us some bucket meat And some bucket rice I'll invite you over to my place for a little meal And we'll just be prepping food

Okay, I would love that Maybe we'll do a taste test And I'll have one meal that's like a normal meal i make which is also quite bad and one which is just bucket food i love taste tests this is great this is great water went well so i think this prepping food would go well okay this is fun i like when we turn doomsday into fun day but there's a lot i mean what i really found interesting is that humans have been going underground forever. There's a reason cave paintings are in caves.

Like we like places of shelter and that's all we're doing today. Except now there is also an underground bowling alley as well. Yeah. And buckets of food. Commodified. That's exactly right. Wow.

I rent so I can't build a bunker probably under my apartment block. I'd probably get arrested. Right. Wow. I rent, so I can't build a bunker probably under my apartment block. I'd probably get arrested. But you, Monica, I just want to see it in your mind. You are building, I believe, and I think maybe you should consider also getting a second house under your house. You've got to be safe. I'm just surprised people are so into this when they're also so scared. It's like a universal fear of being buried alive. That's like one of the people's biggest fears.

This is that. No, you're right. I think it's when you've got enough space in your bunker. That fear isn't there. With modern bunkers, there's lights you can turn on. It feels safe as opposed to a claustrophobic little cave you've gone into. But I think it's just the way people are choosing to look at it because it is the same.

Completely. It's all perspective. It's all perspective. But, you know, eight-year-old me under the driveway in this little tunnel that his dad built. Cinnamon's a supporter of the bunker. That's all I'm saying. I have been since I was a tiny child.

Okay. Well, since you're our kid, we'll continue in your dad's, your original dad's legacy, and we will build you a tunnel. Thanks, original dad. And thanks to you parents. Am I more American? Definitely. You're more American than me. Yeah.

Yes. Thanks, Monica.