Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Flightless Bird: Christmas

Episode Date: December 20, 2022

In this week’s Flightless Bird, David Farrier looks at why Christmas is the OG holiday in America. He brings back Mike McHargue from the very first episode of Flightless Bird to talk about how religion and commerce mix. In 2021 Americans spent $800 billion on Christmas-related purchases and this year it looks to soar to new heights! Mike and David delve into the origins of Santa Claus, before David takes a trip to “Holiday Road,'' a giant Christmas display in Calabasas. Finally, David calls his mum/mom in New Zealand to discuss what it was like giving birth (to him) on Christmas Day. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm David Farrier, a New Zealander who got accidentally marooned in America, and I want to figure out what makes this country tick. Now I've learnt a lot this year. I've learnt that Americans eat over 50 billion cheeseburgers a year, that 200 million of them consider themselves Christian, and that over 115 million males in the United States are currently walking around with no foreskin. It's crazy. Somebody looking at this

who's intact would say, that's not my penis. I've learned that citizens of the US love football, shower curtains, and saying math instead of maths. Could you ever say maths or is it always math? Math. Math. Math. Math. Can't get used to it. Along the way, I've learned that there's a lot to love about this deeply confusing country. And as this year rushes to a close, it felt appropriate to dive into something deeply American. Okay, people, tomorrow morning, 10am, Santa's coming to town. Santa! Oh my God! Santa, or more broadly, Christmas, is almost here. And to me, America is Christmas.

And Christmas is America. Because growing up in New Zealand, the 25th of December was always dominated by American films. The Grinch, A Christmas Carol, Die Hard, Home Alone and National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation. Like in so much of the world, Christmas is seen through an American lens. Since this is Aunt Bethany's 80th Christmas, I think she should lead us in the saying of grace. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands.

One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Amen. Amen. Christmas is also the perfect strange mix of religion and commerce. And it's big business. Holiday spending grows at about 5% every year in the US. And in 2021, retail sales reached over $800 billion. This

year will eclipse that. Back in New Zealand, Christmas happens during the summer. It's all barbecues and going to the beach. So being here in America feels like being in the upside down for me. It's all sweaters and snow and reindeer. So hang that mistletoe and put milk out for Santa, because this is the Christmas episode. Flightless, flightless, flightless bird touchdown in America. I'm a flightless bird touchdown in America. Christmas is coming touchdown in mine. We just had this thought the other day that maybe you are the second coming.

Yeah. Jesus died in his mid-30s or early 30s, I think. And you're about to turn 40 this year. We don't need to get into ages. You're 40. Yeah, I'm going to be 40. That's a problem for me. But you're right.

I have to confront the truth. I've outlasted Jesus, which is a good start. Right. But how much longer? I mean, saviors die young. I know. And I actually think I need to clear up some misinformation that's flying around that I have kind of been lying about a little bit during my entire life. Oh my God. A secret.

It's a secret. It's a secret. That's no longer going to be a secret. I was born on Christmas Day. It's a sort of a story that I was born in Bethlehem in New Zealand. That's not a story. That's what you told us. No, no, because it's brought up.

Other people know it and it's brought back to me. But I wasn't born in Bethlehem in New Zealand. I moved to Bethlehem when I was about 12. David. I really, look. This is so bad. No, we talked about this the other day and I know it's bad and I didn't clear it up and I want to clear it up publicly now. Oh my God, where were you born?

I was born in Auckland City, which is, for the people of America, it's like the Los Angeles of New Zealand. It's sprawling. It's kind of a mess. It has nothing to do. There's no mangers in Auckland. There's no mangers in Auckland. So look, I was still born on Christmas Day. Okay, so that's the truth. I did live in Bethlehem in New Zealand, but I wasn't born.

And I wanted to be honest because honesty is one thing you've taught me, Monica. Honesty is important. Wow. I taught you that. Wow. You taught me that. Yeah, I can't remember when, but it was definitely you. Another fact about me, I went to a private Christian school for quite some time,

and I wore Roman sandals to school. It was part of our uniform. What is that? Do you know what Roman sandals are? They're uncomfortable. They're like a sandal. A jandle. We call them a jandle. They're like a sandal made out of leather, and they're called Roman sandals. It's like a Roman style. It's what Jesus potentially used to wear was Roman sandals. Okay.

So at some point, I was a man who was born on Christmas Day, living in Bethlehem, wearing Roman sandals. Okay, so this isn't about me. It's about Christmas. I mean, I'm glad you came forward. That's all I can say. Yeah, truth. Truthful Dave, that's what they call me.

Nope, nobody calls you that. So Christmas, we're going to get into it, all the can say. Yeah. Truth. Truthful Dave. That's what they call me. Nope. Nobody calls you that. So Christmas, we're going to get into it, all the things about Christmas today. But what does it invoke in you? What sort of feelings? What sort of emotions? Because I was obviously experienced New Zealand Christmas. You've experienced American Christmas. How do you feel?

Well, I think I'm maybe a good person to represent Christmas in 2022 because there's so much around it. But, you know, I'm not Christian. My parents are Hindu. By the way, that's a really hard sentence for me to say. Right. Because I've avoided saying that sentence my whole life. I've never heard you say it. It's the first.

It's the day of firsts. You're right. Honesty. Honesty. I don't say it because I felt really ashamed of that. Everyone else was Christian. And in Georgia, there's a lot of Methodists, Baptists, Presbyterian, any of those things. Yeah.

I had to lie. People around Christmas time, like, are you going to midnight mass? No, we're not doing that this year. You know, I'd have to lie. Yeah. And what, cause once you say, no, you're not doing it, then the questions probably start, right? Like, why aren't you doing, what are you doing? Blah, blah, blah. And I'd have to sort of lie and just be like, oh, we don't really go to church. Not, oh, we're not Christian. Because I was so afraid that the response would be then, why do you, how are you celebrating Christmas? That's bad. Yeah. You freak. You're not Christian because I was so afraid that the response would be then why do you how are you celebrating Christmas that's bad yeah you freak you're not doing what we're all doing you're like

a fair weather fan for Christmas but now I'm so happy that I'm not really tied to the religious portion and I can enjoy the merriment of it and the wonder in the family aspect and the mainly the presence so what did your family do on christmas day because i'm the opposite my family was all really christian and i was christian yeah and so it was this whole thing of being it was this thing that my mom would always say which was she got annoyed when your people would call it xmas because she's like you can't take the christ out of christmas that was her saying. Great saying. It's a really good saying. But Pam was big into that. And we all were. Pamela Anderson. My mum is not Pamela Ann. Pamela Ann. That's right. That's right. Pamela Ann

Perry. Ann Dursland. But yeah, so I had a very different experience where it was like church. And that was all totally normal. I like to think I wasn't going to be one of the kids who would give you shit. Maybe I would have been. Maybe I would have been the little snotty nose kid that was like, oh, you weirdo. You're not Christian and you're not celebrating Christmas. I might have been. Like you shouldn't be allowed to celebrate Christmas unless you're Christian. Yeah.

We take it away from you. I could totally see you being that. Yeah, I could see it too. I probably would have. I was a little shit. I thought I had the truth when I absolutely didn't. It was a really, anyway, that's a whole other topic. But what did you do for Christmas Day?

Okay, so you stay up all night because you're so excited for the presents. And I had a tradition with my friend Kim called the Christmas call. Kim Kardashian. What if that was a cool thing about me that I have old friends, childhood friends. It could still happen. It's still good. You guys could do a Christmas call. My friend Kim, we were both so excited for presents, and we commiserated over this.

Like, oh, it's just so hard to fall asleep, Christmas Eve. And so we would read all night Karen books, Babysitter's Club, Little Sister. And then when we realized you both did the same thing, we thought, oh, I know. We'll just talk on the phone all night. Oh, that's so nice. Yeah, to just make the time pass. Just rewind for a second. What are those books?

Karen's Babysitter's Club? Okay. Do you know about Babysitter's Club? No. Oh, wow. You got to do an episode of Babysitter's Club. It's a book series. And what did the club do?

What did they get up to? Okay, they were a babysitting club, and they would babysit and have adventures. And then they would get together and make their crafts. I forget all the details. That sounds nice. It was a really, really good series. And then there was a spinoff series called Babysitter's Club Little Sister. And the main character was Karen.

Karen was the little sister of one of the babysitters club okay so it's like a spin-off with this other kid yes and there were so many books and they were my favorite and i would beg my mom for karen books for me it was goosebumps i feel that was my thing when you were yeah doing those yeah that was marketed more towards boys and Babysitter's Club was marketed more. She was Christy's little stepsister. Christy! Yes, Christy. And isn't there one named Dawn? I think Dawn got cancer.

We've got so much to catch. Oh, no! I don't actually think that because I think that was too intense for the time. It sounds amazing. Her mom had lung cancer. Wow, I knew it. That's such an intense thing to put into it.

Because she had just a single dad. Wait, wait, wait. It's her best friend. Sunny's mom had just been diagnosed with lung cancer, and Dawn really wants to be there for her best friend. Oh, I thought one of them had a single dad. Anyway, okay. So, inside of Karen Books,

my friend Kim and I would call each other. And the first year we did this, I had to tell my parents, it was before cell phones, oh, the phone's going to ring at 1 a.m. And they said, absolutely not. You're going to wake up the whole house. And I said, well, it's happening. It's already happening. It's happening, mom and dad.

I'm so sorry. And so we unplugged every single phone except one that I could answer. And then we chatted all night. And it's still a tradition. Although now we talk at 10 a.m. I really, every Christmas Eve, 1 a.m. Exactly. I do remember, I don't want to get on too much of a tangent,

but I do remember how exciting it was to use the landline. And I don't know if you did this in America, but in New Zealand, if you wanted to ask someone out on a date, you would call them on the phone. And it was so terrifying because it was just it was hideous because the parents would pick up it was just the worst thing in the world

pretend you're that age you be the mum picking up hello hi it's David from school what school from Bethlehem college you're in college?

Wait Wait No Bethlehem College You're too old for my daughter No it's different This is what the show is about College is different in New Zealand Wait what?

No Bethlehem College went From age 5 right through to 17 It was the whole gamut They called it college? It was Bethlehem College Yeah yeah went from age five right through to 17. It was the whole gamut. They called it college? It was Bethlehem College. Yeah, yeah. And then what did you call college?

University? Well, what is college in your mind? College is college. Yeah, but what are you doing? Because I don't know. Okay. You go to elementary school, middle school, high school, and then your post, you get a degree. Oh, no, that's university.

Okay. Yeah, yeah. College is up to 17 okay wow anyway my point is phones were scary and asking people out was scary christmas i went to the streets and i said to americans what does christmas mean to you bit of a hat question but it's the only question you can really put out for this topic what does christmas mean to you just around family just as much time i can spend with them i give gift giving gift receiving lots of food for sure we have christmas cake in new zealand it's like got white icing on it and it's like a fruit cake

do you do that here no i i never had a fruitcake with white icing. It sounds good, though. It sounds, like, real good. My mom Pam makes a real good one. Christmas means to me spending time with your family at home. Is it religious at all? In my house it is, but I don't think it is necessarily. It's not religious for my family, but it is everyone gets together from far and gets to one house, and everyone just stays in

cuddly feeling it's really warm lots of food lots of cookies it's a lot of fun well before i used to go to church now i don't so i'd be lying if i told you i went to church but i still hold the religious aspect of it though what has christmas been to you family time sharing those months when you get older but when you're a kid you know it's all about the gifts and whatnot. Best gift you ever got as a kid? Ooh, racetrack. I love racetrack. That was my best gift ever. Do you have a real Christmas tree or a fake one? I always do real, and I always go to the forest and cut it down to get it.

So you'll be going into the forest yourself with a big saw? So my family's from a small town in Wisconsin, middle of nowhere. We've always done it. And what's the secret to picking a good tree? Is it sort of the shape, the texture, the smell? Yeah, all of the above. And then also one with many spacious branches. What do you put in the water to keep the Christmas tree alive? Sugar and fishing line will help hold it up at the right angle. Great tip. your life sugar and fishing line will help hold it up at the right angle great tip yeah so some little christmas tips in there for all of us sugar in the water that made me feel wonder it was beautiful right yeah and that person i was speaking to quite petite and small i just imagine her like

going off into the woods with a big chainsaw and just like chopping down a tree and dragging it back to her house. Good for her. I wonder what the percentage of people who celebrate Christmas believe in Christianity. Yeah, totally. The whole backstory. And that's where my documentary actually begins a little bit with this about how people are celebrating Christmas and what it means. Because that's the interesting thing about it is it used to be all about, I guess, Jesus and Christianity. And increasingly, the world is slowly turning more atheist. So what does it mean for all of us, right? Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Flightless Bird is sponsored by BetterHelp. Now this holiday season, do something for a special person in your life.

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Cancel your unnecessary subscriptions right now at rocketmoney.com slash bird. So I'm going to kick into the doc. Okay. Now, just so we know, the first part of the documentary is kind of looking at the religious side of things. The second part of the documentary later in the show is going to be more about the crazy kind of festivities involved in Christmas. We've got it all in this episode.

It's a festive surprise. Now, it wouldn't be Christmas without the Christmas Grinch, whether it was Dr. Seuss' original book or Jim Carrey's masterpiece from the year 2000. Hello, little girl. How dare you enter the Grinch's lair! The impudent, the audacity, the unmitigated gore! You've called out the thunder.

Now get ready for the boom! Gaze into the face of fear. The book was pushing back against the commercialization of Christmas. And that's an argument that often comes up here in the US. Perhaps the biggest grinch of all is conservative Christian megachurch pastor Pat Robinson. He's suspicious of American Christmas. Here in America, so-called Christian country, we're going to this new age nonsense. Of course, you've got to remember, ladies and gentlemen,

this Christmas trees and all the wreaths and all the garlands and all the mistletoe, every bit of them come from Teutonic paganism. They are not an integral part of Christianity. The so-called battle for Christmas has been talked about in America forever. The argument over whether it's a religious holiday, a secular holiday, or a mixture of the two. I wanted to get my head around the meaning of Christmas here in America. So I needed to talk to an expert. Back in April when we launched Flightless Bird, our first topic was religion. Quite a full-on topic for episode one, but we did it and we're still here.

For that episode, I'd interviewed Mike McHarg, a Christian turned atheist turned something in between, who now consults on superhero movies. If you've seen anything coming out of Marvel lately, I got to work on their multiverse for them, which was a ton of fun. Basically, Mike is a giant brain box who is super religious, then not religious, then something of a mystic, studying the Bible as an outsider almost. I thought that seeing as this is the last episode of the year, I'd go back to Mike to learn what American Christmas is all about. I'm really interested in social identity formation. Understand everything people do as belonging. We're social mammals and we talk a good talk about our rational brains and our

beliefs, but really what most of our thoughts and feelings and behaviors are around is belonging. And a huge part of kind of social formation is tradition. And I think, at least for Westerners, Christmas is currently like the OG tradition. As I said earlier, Mike McHarg often consults on big blockbuster stories, and the Bible is probably one of the biggest stories ever written. And Christmas is the bit where the hero arrives. The Matrix had Neo, the Bible had Jesus. These days, Christmas is the bit where the hero arrives. The Matrix had Neo. The Bible had Jesus. These days, Christmas is different for me than it's ever been because I've shifted my neurological framing for the holiday, frankly. I don't want to go straight to nerdery, but I can't answer the question without it.

There's this amazing neuroscientist named Andrew Newberg who studies the brains of religious people. We sort of understand there's a dichotomy in how people experience faith. One is located in the frontal lobes of the brain. People have kind of a cerebral orientation in how they see the world. They tend to focus on theology and what's the right belief and a rigorous understanding of their faith experience. Then other people are sort of more biased towards what we would have traditionally called the limbic center of the brain, the emotional feeling part of the brain. For them, faith is a series of rituals and actions and relationships. And of course, this is a spectrum. You can exist with a mix of those two extremes. Most of my life, I was a very

cerebral fundamentalist. So Christmas was about, number one, confronting the commercialism in America, especially understanding the right beliefs about the incarnation, immaculate conception, and all these sorts of things. And as I've gotten older and been through some faith transitions, as you and I have discussed, I don't really care about that stuff anymore. What I'm interested in is after Thanksgiving, putting the tree up with my kids and my wife and getting together with friends and drinking hot chocolate with alcohol in it. Hot chocolate and alcohol is a great Christmas gift. Sometimes I just throw some Baileys in the microwave and off I go. But Mike also loves to dwell on the Christian side of

Christmas. I mean, the fact is the entire planet tells what year it is by counting the years since Jesus' first birthday. And Mike says he likes to ponder the notion of what it would be like for God to be born as a little baby about 2,022 years ago, what that story means, and what it says about the world. I love the Bible more than I ever have today, which is weird because I no longer think it's the literal word of God or however I used to frame that. I like the Bible because it's a bunch of semi-related documents written by people who are trying to figure out their faith, figure out who God is, wrestle with the problem of evil in our world. And when I read the Gospels or any part of the Bible, I like to understand the history around it. There was someone who wrote this. They were writing to an audience, and they were trying to convince them of something.

Stories were persuasive tools even in that time in history, perhaps more than now. The idea of objective telling of history, what is that? In biblical times, we told stories to form identity, to create who we are as a group of people, as a cohort, or as an ethnicity, or as indeed a nationality. Now, the four main gospels were written between 66 and 110 AD. So, the Christmas story of Jesus being born was all written after he had died. So, Christians are trying to figure out how to talk about their faith in a way that doesn't get them executed. And so what I love about the birth stories of Jesus is they're really subversive and secretive about it. They draw from these allegories, these cultural touchstones of what it meant to claim you're a deity. And they borrow liberally from other faiths and especially the faiths of the Roman Empire as they do, but in a way that kind

of has this step of plausible deniability because you have these people saying, listen, Jesus was special. Jesus was the one true son of God. Everybody else is just imitating this true God figure, especially Caesar, which was a thing that could get not only you killed, but your city burned to the ground. And I love this assemblage that is so historically and cultural specific of what it means to talk about God come to earth and what that means for people. And I know that's probably not the warmest, fuzziest, coziest depiction. You know, we think about sitting around the fire and reading the early chapters of Luke as a family, and that's still a fun tradition. But I'm more interested

in how the Gospels and all of the Christian faith calls us to imagine a world different and more inclusive and more redemptive than it is today. And I think a subversive story that calls into question the power structures of the world is a great way to do that. I never really thought of the Bible as subversive storytelling, but it really was. The first mention to humanity that God is on the way to do something special and amazing was to a woman in a patriarchal society. The story begins with subversion. Who do we tell? The shepherds who are basically homeless workers who live beyond the gates of the city and are smelly and not allowed in polite society? If you were to script this stuff, save the cat style on index cards, your story beats are hitting pretty hard, pretty fast. In fact, audiences might be like, this is too much. I thought this was a family movie. I love this image of the supposed heir to the cosmological throne of reality in a manger surrounded by shepherds and farm animals.

And yeah, some magi who weren't actually there. I love this story because of its flexibility and applicability and our ability to explore any situation in which goodness is the underdog. And how often in our lives does it feel like good is the underdog in the world's story? So for me, that's probably my favorite theme in the Christmas story. Good's the underdog, but it's never hopeless. Of course, a big part of Christmas is how it's experienced by those who have no religion. And for them, the original Christmas story doesn't enter the frame in a meaningful way. I don't love American commercialism or American capitalism in particular,

but in America, the fastest growing religion and possibly now the largest religious group is people without any specific religious affiliation. And so we do have to talk about what does it look like for people to be able to have a secularized Christmas, their own experience that's separate from church attendance or participation in a Christian denomination or other tradition. And some people really resent that. They don't think you should be able to practice Christmas at all unless you adhere to typically their exact and precise Christian beliefs. And I think that's ridiculous. There is the story in the Gospels of the birth of Christ, but it wasn't organized into

a holiday or a festival. But Christmas was taken in the first place. It was borrowed from many, many, many cultural festivities around winter. And a lot of the symbols in Christmas aren't original to Christianity, not trees in particular. So I just don't care anymore like I used to and I think it's so fitting that what is ultimately a cultural celebration allowed to be returned to that for people who no longer identify with this faith tradition I think it's oddly possessive and if it was me I mean I got a background in branding and advertising the word Christ is still the majority of the word Christmas. Take the branding win and let go of the minutia fight. You know, peace on earth, goodwill to men. I like that sentiment a lot.

I really like that he pointed out that it is the OG holiday. Because in my mind, the way holidays work in America, you've got Halloween. Everyone gets excited. The candy's out. That happens. And then you hit Thanksgiving. Yeah. It's like, oh, wow, we're all eating together.

Yes. And then it's like we're almost at Christmas. It's the rule of three. Halloween is the first of holiday season and it kicks off a levity. Yeah. One thing I do want to do real quick. Yes, please. Because I do think that America, well, I never knew this.

I thought, because I have an insular mind, that every country that celebrated Christmas celebrated it pretty much in the same way that we do here. But then I talked to Ana, our friend Ana,

who's from Venezuela. And I was saying something to her last year about presents. And she's like, yeah, we didn't do that that much. I was like saying something to her last year about presents. And she's like, yeah, we didn't do that that much. I was like, oh, we don't have Santa. I was like, what? They have baby Jesus. Right.

But they have baby Jesus brings presents. Oh, Jesus brings the presents. Can we call her and have her explain it? Yeah, I'm deeply curious about this. I found it fascinating. Please pick up. Pick up, Anna. Hello?

Hi. Oh, my God. I'm so glad you answered. What happened? This being a tragedy. No, you're on Fightless Bird right now. Okay. Okay, because it's the Christmas episode.

I want people to understand what happens in Venezuela. Can you lay it out, please? Yeah, the baby Jesus part? Yeah. Yeah, that part. Well, for us, we write letters to baby Jesus. Dear baby Jesus, blah, blah, blah. And then put them on the tree.

Then the next day they're gone because baby Jesus comes and grabs them. How does baby Jesus get in? Exactly. How does he get in? He's just a baby. Well, but is he? He's three, remember? Well, that's too complicated.

But he comes the 24th at night and he brings the gifts for everybody. Yeah, puts them on the tree, around the tree, and then they're there the next day on Christmas Day. Okay, right. But then tell me how Santa is incorporated because your uncle dressed up as Santa, but there is no Santa. Yeah, Santa doesn't come to bring the gifts. Santa is incorporated because your uncle dressed up as Santa, but there is no Santa. Yeah, Santa doesn't come to bring the gifts.

But what we used to do is that my uncle used to dress up as Santa and come to my grandma's house and knock on the door. And then he would come in with a huge bag and just give us my grandparents' gifts to us. So he would just sit on the couch and be like, from grandma to Anon, give me the gift. us so he would just sit on the couch and be like from grandma to anon give me the gift and then he would leave like goodbye and then that was santa's appearance how does it work with with kids stop not believing in jesus then oh everyone in venezuela believes in jesus right but the parents don't if they're giving the gifts like you know when someone stops believing in santa it's not tied to religion like jesus is yeah i guess the

question is at what age do kids start realizing it's not baby jesus who's bringing the presents it's mom is it i would say i would say very late like well me, I found out when I was like 13 because I found the letters in my mom's nightstand. But yeah, people don't talk about that. You don't ruin that for anybody once you find out. Yeah, I mean, it's equivalent, I guess, to Santa here, but yours is a little weirder because you still believe in baby Jesus.

You just don't believe that he is a present giver. Right. True. Yeah. And where does he supposed to live? Who's helping him? Who's helping him with all these present deliveries and stuff? There's no elves?

No, there's no elves. I mean, Jesus can do it all, right? Why is he a baby? Why is it baby Jesus and not adult Jesus? Oh, great question. Oh, because he's born that night. Oh, that makes total sense. Now I get it.

You and I talked the other day. I did ask my mom how they explained that Santa existed in other countries because we do know Santa comes to kids in the States. Right. You know? Yeah. And she said, they just said, oh, Santa goes to wherever there's snow.

And we just bought that. Oh my God. All right. Well, that was great. Thank you for indulging us. And now we got to learn a little bit about baby Jesus. I'm glad I could teach you all about it. right bye okay bye okay well that was a hoot i was in ecstasy during the entire conversation that was so good wasn't it and it's so funny because all the stories are

pretty silly yes but when you hear a new silly story it's so silly yeah you're loud because santa and baby jesus both i would argue pretty implausible delivery systems for presents equally implausible yeah yeah equally equally implausible i would say it's even more implausible than a baby a small baby they built up santa's backstory a little better yeah with s Santa, Santa's got the big sack of presents. Exactly. What is a tiny crawling baby? And a sleigh. What is a baby? I want to see the imagery around this and how it's actually portrayed.

I love every element. Me too. To this. It made me think I bet other cultures there's more of this out there. Yeah, completely. And Mike mentioned Christmas trees and the origins of them. I quickly Googled them. Decorated trees date back to Germany in the Middle Ages. German and other European settlers popularizing Christmas trees in America by the early 19th century. A New York woodsman named Mark Carr is credited with opening the first U.S. Christmas. I also wanted to share one more cultural Christmas item. In Spain, certain areas of Spain, they have a Christmas figurine and it's a little tiny and you can get

different ones, but two inches tall, tiny, tiny little figurines of sometimes it's a sports players, real people, and they're squatting down their pants are down and there's a poop underneath them and they're called pooping boys well we call them pooping boys when i was in spain earlier this year we were on a mission to get pooping boys you gotta find those pooping boys and we got them and i have a little figurine of a boy, a nighttime boy with a nighttime hat. And he's pooping and I put him on my chess set because I don't play chess. So I replaced one of the pieces with the pooping boy. These stories are just the best things ever, right?

Like they're so extreme and so deeply unusual. They're deeply unusual in every single way. What's the origin of him? Why is he pooping on Christmas? No one should be shitting on. I mean, it's wild. But he's enjoying it. It's not like he's not shitting on it as in.

Yeah, it's a poop of joy. It's a joyful poop. I think of the South Park episode that had Mr. Hankey the Christmas poo, which was a poo that would arrive on Christmas. It would be a poo with a little hat on, and he'd dance around singing Christmas songs. And I used to love Mr. Hankey the Christmas Poo so much when I was in high school.

Memories. Memories. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Flightless Bird is brought to you by Athletic Greens. I've been on AG1 for about six months now. I talk about this a lot, but I really like it. I was at a holiday gathering a couple days ago,

and my friend Anthony was asking about our code. He wants to try Athletic Greens really bad. Can't stop talking about it. And then finally his wife was like, that's what I got you for Christmas. Like she just like exploded. Just in frustration. It's like it's already coming. Because he wouldn't stop talking about it. And I mean, it's a great gift. It's a really healthy gift. Yeah. It's the best option for easy optimal nutrition out there. You take one scoop of AG1 and you're absorbing 75 high quality vitamins, minerals, whole foods, or superfoods,

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recommendation from her. Families find listening on Alexa a great connection time to listen to holiday classics. Audible also recently launched Alexa in the Audible app, giving you hands-free navigation and discovery in the existing app. I love this because I like cooking and I like having some stimuli happening while I'm cooking so I'm not super focused on the chopping and stuff. Yeah, if I'm cleaning the house, I can't be doing it with nothing else going on because it feels like a waste of time.

I was like, I've got to be doing this horrible task, but also taking something in. Agreed, agreed. So Alexa's perfect for that. You can get a Christmas carol, which is very appropriate for this particular episode, narrated by Hugh Grant. Just say, Alexa, read a Christmas carol, and boom, it starts. He has a great voice. I love Hugh Grant.

Yeah. There's also an audible Alexa discovery option. Alexa customers can simply use their voice to discover new books or navigate within an existing listen. If you're looking for your next book, just say, Alexa, recommend me an audiobook. It's that simple. If you miss something while listening, simply say, Alexa, go back 30 seconds. Alexa customers can listen to A Christmas carol narrated by Hugh Grant on Alexa for free the entire month of December. Just say, Alexa, read a Christmas carol. Offer

only available in the US. Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer, he was a marketing stunt from the Montgomery War Department store in Chicago Ah, yes An invention back in 1939 And now Rudolph, we all feel like, oh, warm feelings towards him I do It was just a way to sell things in a store I mean, oof Look, I know there's problems with capitalism, don't get me wrong, of course

But there's also fun stuff that comes out of it There's really fun stuff Like Rudolph. Ugly sweaters at Christmas. Ugly sweaters. Everyone loves ugly sweaters. Yeah. I think it's just really interesting how much of a good sales pitch it is where we feel so warm towards these things that are just blatantly silly.

But I feel like that towards McDonald's and Coke. I feel warm towards those things. And they're the most grossly commercialized things of all time, but I love them. Yeah, but they're yummy. Do you want an explanation of these pooping figurines? Yes, please. It's been around for a while and they have different reasons.

There's not a consensus on what it means. One is that it's fertilizing the earth. Oh my god! That's good. The other ones, the modern ones, represent celebrities and authority figures and it serves as a leveling device to bring the mighty down. Oh. That's a very different take.

Yeah. And not Christmassy. Yeah. Another thing entirely sort of removed from this, but what Mike was talking about, there's this religion Zoroastrianism, which originated 2000 BC, like a very long time ago. It started being written about a lot, I think it's 600 BC. But it was this Iranian religion that basically came up. And look, I'm not a religious scholar, so I hope I've got all this right. But it came up with ideas like the being a Messiah and the being a heaven and a hell. And all those big ideas were invented so long ago.

And religion, Judaism and Christianity and Islam, we're all grabbing other ideas and swapping them and changing them. And I feel like that's the same thing with Christmas. Just like in Hollywood. There's no new ideas. There's no new ideas. Alright, it's time for part two of the documentary. It's another adventure that I'm about to go on. Festivities. Another festive adventure. Oh, I love adventures.

Adventures are good. I wanted to experience a big American Christmas, but I had a huge problem. This episode is coming out before Christmas, so how could I possibly experience an American Christmas before Christmas? It was impossible. So I decided to do the next best thing. I'd do a Christmas activity, something Christmassy that was happening before Christmas. I decided on something called Holiday Road, a 45-minute drive from my apartment. Holiday Road promised the experience of Christmas, its website proclaiming, an immersive holiday experience, in all caps. A magical Christmas experience you could walk

through on foot. I arrived just after 7pm. What have we got here? Santa's workshop. As I walk in, in true American style, there are a number of Christmassy backgrounds you can pose for photos in front of. I see, so you can get your photo taken in some different sort of photo booth areas. That's nice. I will definitely have to get a photo in there.

OK, let's line up. A staff member is positioned in front of one of them, a Christmas photo frame. He's trapped in a purgatory being handed people's cell phones so he can take photos for them. How many photos have you taken this Christmas? Right now, like more than a thousand. It's a lot of photos. I ask another staff member about how America does Christmas.

And they point out it's always a big build-up to the main event. I mean, it starts with Black Friday, right? It's a holiday shopping, capitalism at its finest, basically. Tree lots, huge, biggest trees. I live 15 minutes away from, they claim the world's largest Christmas tree. It's in the Citadel outlets,

standing at something feet tall yeah it's insane but everything has to be like bigger and better everything has to be bigger and better I mean it stems from Texas that's literally their state model everything is bigger in Texas basically doesn't that Capitol building didn't they specifically build it a bit taller than like the actual Capitol Capitol in Washington sounds very American so yeah I would say yes yes yeah. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. I often reel off information about America with no idea if it's true or not. Terrible behavior. But I googled the Texas capital thing and for once I'm

right. The main U.S. capital in Washington is 288 feet tall. When Texas built its state capital, it made sure it was 14 feet taller. It was basically a dick measuring contest between Texas and the rest of America. Totally normal stuff. I joined the queue to get into Holiday Road with a bunch of other Christmas lovers. We have Christmas in New Zealand, but it's much smaller, whereas here... Everybody decorates their houses, decorates inside their houses. They go to church, you know, whether at Midnight Mass, you go to caroling or go see caroling.

If you go to like Disneyland or Knott's Berry Farm, those amusement parks, they're decorated to the nines. It's great. And they have all sorts of stuff for that, singing and shows that go with it. Disneyland has a Christmas parade. So it's great and they have all sorts of stuff for that as singing and shows that go with it disneyland has a christmas parade so it's really fun are you decorating your house this year yes yes we are do you go all in do you get new decorations do you bring out the old ones oh yeah i bring out the old ones and then i always sneak in new ones on my husband and he gets mad

what's the power bill like each year? I don't know. Who cares? I think of the street I live on and how over the last few weeks all the lights have started going up. I've noticed that Americans love wrapping Christmas lights around tree trunks and that all those American Christmas movies I watched as a kid are kind of spot on. Up ahead someone is checking out tickets. I paid $35 for this Christmas treat and can't wait to see what awaits me. What can we expect in here? Very beautiful lights, wonderful music, and just a overall great experience. What does Christmas mean to you? Just spending time with your loved ones and being grateful for what you have and trying to be positive and spread cheer. So sort of walking down a path and it's just, I'm surrounded by glowing Christmas decorations.

There's some big stars, some big trees. One thing that America loves is lights. They love the light bulb and they love putting light bulbs on everything. As I walk through all the light bulbs, the Christmas music swells around me. I'm just entering a tunnel of lights. It's like entering heaven. The lights are hypnotic, and I find the Christmas spirit leeching into my body. I emerge from the tunnel into some kind of half-sized Christmas town, complete with snow. It's like being on a Hollywood set and very American.

Around the corner, I stumble upon the American classic Mike McHarg and I had discussed, Baby Jesus in a Manger. See if they've got the key elements. They've got the magi, they've got a wise man. Now inside the manger, we have some angels. We've got a little baby Jesus. We've got a couple of magi inside. That magi is being left outside in the coals. And Mary. And some shepherds over there. Classic, isn't it? Classic scene. I keep walking

along this little Christmas path and emerge into a display about Hanukkah, the Jewish festival held between December 18 and December 26. Around another bend, there's a little area dedicated to Kwanzaa. Happy Kwanzaa! Happy Kwanzaa! Everybody! Happy Kwanzaa! That's right! Happy Kwanzaa!

Showing my absolute whiteness, I'd never heard of Kwanzaa before. It was first held 56 years ago and is a celebration of African American culture that happens between Christmas Day and January 1st, timed in with African Harvest Festivals. We wander on and arrive in an area with some Christmas toys for sale. It wouldn't be Christmas without selling stuff. What has been your best seller in the shop? Well, tonight it's the plush dog on a leash. Why does anyone need a fake plush dog on a leash? Who knows?

I walk on and pass a giant Santa lit up in lights. I do like that Santa is this universal lie we just teach every westernized kid. It's such an odd thing. It is weird to lie to kids about a man breaking into your house each Christmas. But then again, Santa is based on a real guy, but he didn't break into houses. It's something Mike McHarg and I had talked about earlier. The Santa Claus, Father Christmas, whatever you want to call him, is meant to be a real guy, Saint Nicholas. Saint Nicholas is this incredibly compelling character. And in Europe, especially, there's a great understanding of a historical

St. Nicholas. But one place American commercialism has really upset me is turning St. Nicholas into a catalog toy pitchman. That really, really bugs me. We haven't taken the Christ out of Christmas, but we've absolutely taken the St. Nick out of it. And I mean Saint Nicholas. That makes me sad. Saint Nick was a Christian bishop born around 270 AD and dying age 73. He was an actual person who had an office in the church. His origin story is growing up with wealthy parents and detesting being wealthy in a world where poverty exists. And then this Christian bishop reportedly found three girls who were sex trafficked, human trafficked, we'd call it today. It's kind of enforced prostitution. And him having money, he takes these bags of gold, sneaks to their house

at night and drops bags of gold into their window while they sleep. Why? It was enough money for a dowry. It allowed them to buy their ways out of sexual slavery. Now, this is a really different story than toys under the tree or stockings hung by the fire. But what we see is someone who was self-sacrificing and who cared about people on the margins, especially those who were kind of despised by polite society. And you also have these stories of him being disruptive in the first council of Nicaea. He got very upset about some of the directions the church was taking, basically saying, nothing about this faith is about power or influence, and I don't even really care about orthodoxy. If there's

anything about Christ that matters, it's that Christ was with the hopeless and the destitute and the poor, and our theology should reflect that. So I find this to be like an incredibly compelling character, and what we get in America today is, oh, oh, oh, oh. And I just think that's sad. But so many of our venerated traditions are literally commercials, right? Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer, Santa Claus is Coming Down. All these things are literally ad campaigns that became cultural touchstones, including the man in the red suit so many things about christmas are weird myths like i've just ended up in some kind of polar bear display right now which shows a bunch of polar bears standing with penguins absolute bullshit a lie spread by coca-cola

advertising polar bears don't live anywhere near penguins polar bears live in the arctic penguins don't this whole thing's a lie it's quite weird display, which has got a lot of polar bears and penguins. I've always sort of gone for the polar bear sound effects. When you're walking through America, as we learned from the bears episode, when you hear a yowling bear, it's not a good thing. It's scary. What's been your highlight and your low light so far? I don't think there's any low light so far. Everything's been your highlight and your low light so far?

I don't think there's any low light so far. Everything's been pretty nice. One thing I've noticed about Americans in the lead up to Christmas is they seem so positive about everything. More positive than normal. This whole walk I've been trying to trick Americans into ragging on Christmas, but they refuse. As we walk through some snow billowing down from the heavens, I try to counter the positivity with some Kiwi cynicism. It's not snow, it's fucking bubbles. It's a fucking bubble machine. It's all an illusion.

Cleaning the bubbles off my glasses, I stumble into the middle of a giant field, pulsating with different coloured lights. So this feels like the climax of the walk is a giant field of lights all flashing in sync with the music. A lot of people are taking photos. There's a lot of selfies. And there's, yeah, always music blasting out wherever you turn. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas.

blue. Christmas is waiting for you. Christmas is waiting for you. Best and worst gift you've ever received across your years of life? Pajamas. Is that best or worst? That's the worst. And then best would probably be a hotel vacation. Who gave you the pajamas? That sounds like a parent gift. That's my mother. Yep, that's my mother for you. As I wonder what terrible gifts this man will receive this year, I realize the walk is over and we're back at the entrance again. I've just experienced 45 minutes of Christmas bliss. As I walk to the car, I bump into three women who have also experienced bliss. They're walking arm in arm, grinning ear to ear. 20 out of 10. We went through it twice. Twice? Twice, yes. The wine helped, but yeah.

Yes, and by the way, it's all over my pants. Yeah, there's been a wine spill. The Christmas spirit has hit these three hard. What was the highlight? It just was magical. I think we're all going through like some times in our life that are a little bit disturbing, sad, depressing. And we just wanted to be in the zone and walk through it and just not think about that stuff. So it was like tapping out of reality for a little bit. Exactly. Exactly. What are you most looking forward to on actual Christmas Day? What are you all going to be doing? I'm going to be with my mom. I booked a flight home to Arkansas, so I'll be with my mom. We'll be having mimosas and opening gifts,

and I'll be Instagram storing her, and she's nuts, so it'll be hilarious. And what about you? What's your Christmas day going to be? I'll be with my mom, my brother and family. Just that magical feeling that Christmas day brings, regardless of what's happening. It's kind of a reset. And you can kind of have a little bit of magic.

And yeah, sort of look forward to the next year. I love it. I love it. And what about you? I'm going back to New Jersey to be with fam. It's going to be amazing. Mimosas will be happening as well. Lots of Instagram stories.

We celebrate Christmaka. So we celebrate Christmas and Hanukkah in my house. Oh, I love that. My stepdad is Jewish and we grew up, you know, celebrating Christmas. So our presents are from Santa Steen Christmas Cup. That's what it's about. I love that so much. You all have the best Christmas.

Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. I was struck by the fact that all just talked about their mums. And I got to thinking about my mum all the way back in New Zealand. In New Zealand, we spell it M-U-M, by the way. So it's mum, not mom. Anyway, when I got home, it was dark in America, but still light in New Zealand we spell it M-U-M by the way, so it's mum, not mom. Anyway, when I got home, it was dark in America, but still light in New Zealand. And the next day, which is weird, I decided to Zoom my mum to talk to her about a special Christmas gift she'd received many years ago.

When did you know that I was coming? When on Christmas did it start happening? Christmas Eve, sometime after dinner, I think. My mum's name is Pam. I want to talk to her about giving birth to me on Christmas Day in December of 1982. I think Dad and I had had some Chinese food, and I went into Middlemore Hospital in Auckland. As far as births go, obviously you'd already had one child, my older brother, Robert. So I was your second. How was I to birth? Was I easy, difficult? How

would you rate it without too much crazy detail? No detail, but it was long. But the obstetrician that came in, because mine was on holiday, thought that it could be a bit tricky and long. So Dr. Blue, I'll never forget him, and he said he would sleep in the next room until all was well and you'd been born. And he did, and he attended to me. And you were born at, I've forgotten what time, Christmas Day. A Christmas miracle called cinnamon entered the world, a blessing for the entire planet. Do you remember anything else this Christmas gift was being birthed into the world, a blessing for the entire planet.

Do you remember anything else? This Christmas gift was being birthed into the world. Sort of what was going on around you? Do you remember anything else? Yes, I do remember that the Salvation Army were outside my window playing Christmas carols. And the staff came around with sherry and Christmas cake for me, and I told them to go away. And they did, and they came back later, but I still didn't feel like it. Most people like relaxing on Christmas and kicking their feet back, whereas you were sort of in an intense childbirth scenario. Do you resent me for that? Are you okay about it, or was it a beautiful

Christmas gift? No, it was wonderful, really. It was a gift. And the staff actually at the hospital made it really Christmassy and celebratory. So it was really nice. And what's it been like having, I know we've often sort of bickered about this, having my birthday on Christmas day, because I often want to make it about me. And obviously it's more about Jesus and Christmas but how has it been for you having a child with a birthday on Christmas Day? Well I haven't seen it as a problem I've tried to differentiate between a birthday and a Christmas but it's really difficult we'll try different methods and it hasn't really worked so you just have to accept what happens on Christmas Day and your birthday. And you've been quite good about that. Your attitude's been quite good.

So I've appreciated that. And yeah, you've got to be 40. Yeah, we don't need to talk about the age. I'm still dealing with that. Okay. And that's about all. Well, thank you. Is there anything you'd like to say to people that listen to Flightless Bird for Christmas?

Have a blessed Christmas. And remember what the reason for the season is and Merry Christmas from Whangarei, New Zealand. Speaking of New Zealand, I'm about to go back there for a holiday. This Flightless Bird is finally taking flight because the borders are open and I can return there to visit my mum and the rest of my family. I'll be taking a month off and Monica, Rob and Dax can finally get away from me. I'll be returning to America next year in 2023. I'll even bring back a special Flightless Bird episode recorded in the faraway land of New Zealand. Yes, I'll be returning to the United States because I love it here and I still have so much to explore here

on Flightless Bird. I want to crawl into every American orifice that I can find, learning about America's unique, strange, wonderful, and puzzling ways. Did you like Pam? I loved Pam. She's cool, right? Pam Ann. Pam Ann. Pam Ann. That was beautiful. I loved hearing from your mom. We tried once having my birthday in the middle of the year. Okay. Like a half birthday? Like a half birthday. But rubbish. No one sort of

got into the spirit of it. And there was an ongoing problem that a lot of people have when they get presents where you'll get one present, but you'll be told, oh, it's both together and it's a bit bigger, but it's not. Did that happen a lot? It had a pretty rough childhood. Okay.

So there's been an observation made about you. Stutz, which you've watched. Yeah. I love Stutz. We love Stutz. I love Stutz. One of his tenets. So there's a shadow who is the version of yourself that you are trying to hide from the world.

And the moment that that shadow sort of gets cemented is part X. And Christmas. You're saying me being born on Christmas pretty much defined my entire reality, my entire life. And why you run. Yeah. I think it definitely had a lot to do with things. In my entire life. And why you run. Yeah. I think it definitely had a lot to do with things. But I also, I'd like to say I'm confronting some of them today. And I'm confronting a lie that I've been telling.

Because I've always been leaning into the myth as a way of getting through that. But I've almost leaned in and my life has become a lie. You know, I'm now the guy that's saying I'm born in Bethlehem on Christmas. A lie. Who are you going to be? I lied to you about it. I lied to Dax about it. I lied to Rob about it.

I know. Our first episode, you said that. Yeah. I've been lying to everyone from the start. Honestly, David, I've told so many people that you have been born on Christmas in Bethlehem. Me too. I said it to Kristen yesterday and her mouth dropped.

If she had heard it was just Christmas, she would have been like oh wow but the bethlehem piece makes it it's makes a story yeah and now and it's all falling apart that's all gone you know what i've learned from this episode is that sometimes you should keep lying. Nope, definitely not. Because once you start telling the truth, that's when the problems begin. No. I think what we can take a better moral is that we can still love you

even though parts of your origin story are flawed lies made up, just like Christmas. And you still want to spend time with me even though the story is has been a lie. I've been living a lie. I mean I'm busy for the next couple weeks but maybe we'll see what we can get on the books. Maybe in 2023 we can get through this. I appreciate this. I'd like to thank you and Stutz for helping me confront a part of myself that I have been running away from. What do you think was going to happen if you just told people you were born in Auckland?

The story happened out of my control. Someone got it wrong years ago, back when I was in New Zealand working in a newsroom there. Someone published the fact I was born in Bethlehem on Christmas Day. And it was just a case of not correcting it. And it spread and it spread. And as more people fed that lie back to me, I didn't want to ruin that Christmas by ruining it for them. You started to correcting it. And it spread and it spread. And as more people fed that lie back to me, I didn't want to ruin that Christmas by ruining it for them. You started to believe it.

And so I started to lean in and I thought, what's the damage? What's the harm? And it just snowballed. And I've been just living with this guilt for so long now and built sort of an entire career on the lie. It feels both good and terrifying to have it out there that I wasn't born in Bethlehem. I moved to Bethlehem at a later date. I think this is good. We're on the eve of your 40th year. You're a new, you're reborn. Ding, ding, ding.

Reborn. This is your resurrection. Now that you've. I like this. Lie. You start mythologizing things again. You explained your lie. Now you can start anew. Thank you.

It's a Christmas miracle. Or all our listeners are leaving, not come back because they don't trust you. Oh, no. No, that's not going to happen. Oh, no. It's been really fun. It's been a really fun year, and I am going to bring back a Flightless Bird New Zealand edition because it is the land of

flightless birds. Great. And I'll bring back an extra special episode yay all right well happy holidays merry christmas and happy birthday oh thank you you remembered