Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Flightless Bird: Disney Adults

Episode Date: May 31, 2022

This week on Flightless Bird, David sets out to discover how Disney’s parks and experiences division made 17 billion dollars last year - seeing 77 million people through its rollercoasters, rides, and massive queues. Joined by Monica, David tries to figure out what Disney Adults are all about, and why they love those Mickey Mouse ears so much. David talks to a hardcore Disneyland fan to learn about Disney’s biggest secrets, including SEA - the hidden backstory worked into every Disney Park on the planet. We discover the rules behind the elite Club 33 and ask if Disneyland employees love Disney as much as everyone else. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm David Farrier, a Kiwi who ended up accidentally marooned in America, and I want to grasp what makes this country tick. Now in New Zealand, we have one theme park, Rainbow's End. The thing you need to know about Rainbow's End is that it's tiny. It has one main roller coaster, about 10 bumper cars, and a log flume. We used to have a pirate ship, but they shut it down. The theme park ride that has caused more people to lose their lunch than any other has swung its last swing. The pirate ship at Rainbow's End is going into retirement. Now here in America, they do theme parks a little differently. To summarize,

they're bigger. And they're a place that everyone wants to go. Cunningly marketed as the ultimate destination for maximum happiness. You've just won the Super Bowl. What are you doing next? I'm going to go to Disney World. Last year, Disney's Parks and Experiences division made $17 billion. And that was during COVID. $17 billion. And that was during COVID. Usually it's another $10 billion on top of that. 77 million people visit Disneyland and Disney World each year. Harper's Magazine reckons 70% of Americans have been.

Why are these numbers so high? Well, it's because it's not just kids who go there. So get ready to give yourself a full sleeve tattoo of the Little Mermaid. This is the Disney Adults episode. Disney Adults. Also, I love the way you say adults. Also, I love the way you say adults. Oh, thank you. Disney adults. Disney adults. Do you have any knee-jerk reaction?

We have a very good friend, Perfect 10 Charlie's wife, who is a Disney adult. She loves it. It literally lights up her whole world when she thinks about it. I got her a coffee table book of Disneyland. But you know what's hilarious? She was looking at a potential suitor for me. Okay. And she was like, oh, you can't. He likes Disney. And I was like, you like Disney. Yeah. He's one of you. Yeah. So there's judgment. It's a whole thing. There's a lot of divisions within the world of Disney adults and different there's a lot of divisions within the world of disney adults and different levels and a lot of judgment going on it's so interesting for me it is such a strange thing because i had no idea it existed until i got on tiktok and was looking at

there's like two camps there's people that are like very anti-disney adult okay and then there's a very earnest disney adults who are themselves. And it is just such a fascinating thing. Look, I'm not ever going to shit on something that brings people magic. And I do think it does. You can see it in people. Also, I grew up at Disney World. So we spent every spring break at Disney. Since I was in a stroller.

My parents, they don't do uncomfortable stuff. Right. And dragging a kid around in a stroller all day for five days park hopping. Oh my God. They did it and they wanted to. I think there's also a big immigrant contingency at Disney for Disney adults. It's a leveler because I guess you can be from a million different backgrounds, but it's this one thing that unites everyone in this utopia, basically. And it's like just a quick espresso shot to America. I did go out and talk to a bunch of people just to sort of get their take on Disney and the results varied a lot.

Yeah, I think there should be Disneyland everywhere. Hollywood Studios, MGM, Epcot, Magic Kingdom and Animal Kingdom. What about it is so, I mean, aren't they for children, those places? Yeah, they are. Yeah, they are, but you got to love it. You got to love it. Or having a child, you got to let it come outside and play sometimes. Have you run into this thing where they refer to them as like Disney adults,

adults who almost won't give up? Yeah, it's like the kind of nostalgia thing that I think we all have, but they have a special connection to the Disney movies that we all saw when we were kids. I mostly go because I like Star Wars. There's a lot of Star Wars things over there. Because it takes us out of reality.

Every single part of Disney world is meant to take you outside of reality. A little overcrowded. I mean, if you look at their Yelp reviews, they have a one star, so it's supposed to be the happiest place on earth. But they have a Yelp star of one, which is crazy.

I don't know. It's just kind of dorky to me. You just go, you have fun for however long you have, and then you leave. It's not like I'm going to spend hours and hours here. Who made you the boss of Disneyland? I'm not the boss of Disneyland. So it differs so much on what Americans think of Disney and Disney adults.

It's polarizing. It is. It should be on the ballot. And also, so many people know a Disney adult like you. Everyone knows one. And I didn't realize it was that much of a common thing. I also wonder if there's a hereditary component to Disney, because if you grew up there, you just have an affinity. There is a nostalgia. And I think maybe your brain gets wired to just to love it so much and to like really, truly remind you of your childhood. Like,

you know, be a kid that day is what one of them said you let your inner child out yeah and celebrate that fact you either think it's really appealing and kind of lovely to think of an adult doing that and other people just find incredibly creepy like their idea of regressing back to your childhood and they see that as being a really creepy strange thing and i think that's my reaction as a Kiwi. I look at it very cynically. Oh, you do? And I'm like, you need to grow up and get on with your life and stop pretending you're a child because you're not a child anymore.

You're a 45-year-old man, you know? Okay. That's my take on the whole thing. It's like a social contract you're entering into. It's like when you go to a metal concert, it's like, I'm going to have my violin output and I'm going to go in a mosh and then my glasses will fall off and that's what's gonna happen disney it's gonna be safe i'm safe to be a dork i can just be that for a day yeah you can leave your identity behind

and click back into this other community that's peaceful and lovely and not scary the world is not scary there yeah i wonder if we could really break it down into who's there. Is it cool kids who are sick of being cool? Or is it dorky kids who want to feel at home and want to feel level with everyone else? I don't want to be too judgmental. I kind of thought it was dorky kids, but I went and met one of them because I think it's unfair I want to judge them so hard but I also want to hold back on that so this is my quest to go and find out what actually makes a Disney adult tick and I'm really happy because I met a Disney adult who is also incredibly self-aware and could critique not only themselves but Disney as a whole. Disneyland opened back on July 17th, 1955. The only one of Disney's theme parks that

was built under the direct watchful eye of Walt Disney. And his park has been making kids cry ever since. You could go anywhere. Where California, then there's Disney World in Florida, and a bunch of parks overseas in cities like Tokyo and Hong Kong. After some initial skepticism from the French, Disneyland Park opened in Paris too. But Disneyland in Anaheim is the original, the OG, or should I say the OD. And as I mentioned earlier, it's not just built for kids, it's for adults too. My name is Yuliana Kovacs. I work in the restaurant industry, doing admin work. How many times do you think you would have been to Disneyland now? Ballpark. Okay, let's see. I think I can safely say over like 500 times.

I'd heard about Juliana from a friend of mine who knew I was doing an episode about Disneyland. This is how he described her to me in a text. I have a friend in her 30s. She's really sweet and she's part of this community of adults obsessed with Disney. She goes to Disneyland a couple of times a week and has made friends with all the other Disney freaks. The second I got that text, I knew I wanted to speak to this particular freak. What drew me into Disney, I would have to say, growing up in Southern California with a dad that traveled for his work and a mom who was on her own a lot of the time looking for places to go with me. She would take me to Disney about one or two times a week in my stroller

and she would just take me around and we would just like watch shows and she would people watch. And she's not making that up. She gets more flashbacks than an episode of Lost. I do have those flashes, especially when I go there now, of like things that happened when I was younger. I remember watching the Main Street Electrical Parade in Fantasyland in my pajamas. I have memories of being on the tram, going back to parking, falling asleep. As she got older, she continued to go to Disneyland for her birthday. In her words, because it was fun and magical. Sometimes her mom would take her out of school for a mental health day,

which is a bit naughty, but I'm into it. America, land of the free. I guess truancy counts in that. You get one day a year that you get to pick that you don't have to go to school and I'll take you wherever you want, which of course it was Disneyland. In New Zealand, we've literally got one theme park. It's called Rainbow's End. It's truly pathetic.

It has, I i think one roller coaster it used to have a pirate ship ride but that's closed it's got some bumper boats but i don't really understand i guess theme park culture can you try and like explain to me what makes disneyland so fucking special so the thing i think that sets Disney apart from everything is the nostalgia, the design, and the fact that it's rooted in stories that we've grown up knowing. Sleeping beauty, sparkling with colorful spectacle, brimming with gay music and delightful new songs, filled with fascinating new Disney characters. All these characters that you like develop that love for as a child watching the movies,

all that stuff is represented in the parks. I totally understand how this is appealing to kids. The power of nostalgia is strong. We wouldn't have things like Stranger Things and a new Ghostbusters film every few years without it. And don't get me started on Star Wars, which is Disney, of course. But I still don't get why adults are subjecting themselves to this place again and again and again. I've spent the week watching Instagram stories and TikTok videos from grown humans who are absolutely frothing at the mouth about Disneyland.

There's an account called Disney Tats that has 193,000 followers, and it's just people covered in tattoos of Disney characters. And there are two big genres of video I fell into. One involved people mocking Disney adults. It's Mickey Mouse! This is like the moment I've been waiting for my whole life. Can you please take a picture? Mickey, I absolutely love you. I want you to have my kids. The other type of video was the opposite, Disney adults being super earnest about their love of the place. So some people may say that Disney adults are weird. But before you judge, let me give you some insight. Not everyone in this world was lucky enough to have a fair childhood. There are people who suffer from depression, anxiety, PTSD, and not much can actually make us smile.

We are trying to work through the trauma. And if that means being obsessed with Disney, then so be it. It's about damn time we get to take our childhood back and start healing from what was taken. And even if you had a perfectly normal life, dance, sing, cry, and laugh at Disney, it's your life and yours alone. And remember, Disney will always be there to welcome you back home. I wasn't really sure where Juliana was on the spectrum of Disney adults. It was the Dumbo in the room, so I thought I'd get her out of the way. Your adults who are passionate about this thing that is usually associated with childhood memories,

what is a Disney adult? How would you define that? A Disney adult is somebody who never lost sight of that childlike wonder, but now has a disposable income to spend on things that we wish we could have spent when we were kids, that we had to get our parents' permission. And now we're like, I work. I have money. I can buy this myself. I can drive myself to Disneyland on my day off. Are there any fans that go too far? I've watched some extreme TikTok videos of Disney fanatics and some of them do make me uncomfortable. I'm going to be honest.

Absolutely. I agree with you there. I mean, to each his own and whatever makes you happy, but there's definitely a point where I don't relate to it. I feel like in the community, how deep it can go, I still am on like a somewhat casual level. Like I have less than 10 pairs of Mickey ears. Honestly, what I'm learning now is that, yes, everybody who does love Disneyland definitely grew up with Disney movies. It's part of our Americana. We don't really have a deep-rooted history, so Disney is one of those things that I think has affected our culture for the past 90-something years. She's right. It's been 99 years, to be precise. Back in 1923, an animator called Waltz created a short called

Alice's Wonderland. His company, Laugh-O-Gram Studios, had just collapsed. The name probably didn't help. So Waltz went to Hollywood to hang out with his brother Roy. Together, Waltz and Roy created Disney Brothers Cartoon Studio, and three years later renamed it Walt Disney Studios. In 1928, they named a mouse Mortimer before renaming him Mickey. Disney's first film with sound was Steamboat Willie and it featured the debut of Mortimer, sorry, Mickey Mouse. And well, the rest is history. rest is history. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Flightless Bird is sponsored by Athletic Greens, a product I use literally every day. I like to have my vitamins and my good stuff quickly and efficiently, and that's what AG1 gives me. Athletic greens really does

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who you work well with, don't you think? I think matching up people in any situation is a true nightmare, in a work situation even more so. Yeah, exactly, because everyone comes in with all their particular skills and personalities and Indeed cuts through all that crap for you and it matches you with someone awesome. Start hiring now with the $75 sponsored job credit to upgrade your job post at Indeed.com slash bird. Offer good for a limited time. Claim your $75 credit now at Indeed.com slash bird. Indeed.com slash Bird. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? You need Indeed. How old is America? Like 200 and something years old. So like, I'd say a good third of that Disney is involved in. third of that Disney is involved in. She's not wrong. The United States of America was founded in 1776. It's 256 years old. Disney's been around for almost a century. So for more than a third of America's existence, Mickey Mouse has been doing his mousy things. And he's made an impression on

generations of Americans. On Main Street, they have the silhouette artists and there's this one woman, Bonnie, who's been working there 45 plus years. I got my silhouette done when I was five years old and I went back for my 30th birthday and I had my first silhouette on my screensaver and I showed her. I'm like, oh, this is the first one I did. She's like, yeah, that was me. I did that because she could recognize her own style. That's incredible. 25 years later, the same silhouette artist was doing my silhouette. And she still works there.

I still see her all the time. I find the deeply personal connection people have with Disneyland really interesting. And I guess with Disney in general. I mean, I get it. I love the Lion King. But the way some people talk about Disney, how proud they are of it, you'd think they're talking about this tiny little company that needs our help to survive. But Disney is almost offensively big. They own the Marvel and Star Wars universes. To me, they're like a black hole sucking in everything in its path. Hundreds of millions devouring their content on Disney+.

They made nearly a billion dollars in a three-month period last year. And Disneyland has the largest cumulative attendance of any theme park in the world, with 800 million visits since it's opened. With all that wealth, there's an element of Scrooge McDuck. One million, two million, three million, four! I love this place, but I'm not going to not criticize it. They don't pay their staff a decent hourly wage. There's tons of accounts of full-time employees living out of their cars.

Fuck. Yeah. There's stuff with the unions right now where Disney is trying to fight the unions and the unions are trying to get higher wages. There was an account of sexual harassment between a couple of cast members and more stories came through and managers not really caring about the sexual allegations and misconduct. So it can be a great place to work from what I've heard from some other people, and it can be a pretty shitty place to work for some other people. In Juliana's mind, any current complaints can be laid at the feet of Disneyland's new CEO, Bob Chapek. I googled him and he looks like most CEOs.

White, middle-aged, bald. We had a CEO named Bob Iger who started in 2005. He was amazing. He was the one that basically acquired all these outside IPs. He was the one that bought Pixar from Steve Jobs. He's the one who bought Star Wars from George Lucas. He's also the one who bought Marvel and acquired Fox for $28 billion. This guy was not afraid to spend money to make money. So when Bob Iger retired, Bob Chapek took over. And he, throughout his entire career, has always been known as a penny pincher. He's the one that everybody actually despises right now.

He's kind of the new Disney villain that everybody loves to hate on. And he's gone on record saying he's actually resentful that he's being known as this person. And I'm like, then don't act like that person, JPEG. You know, shrinkflation. You charge the same amount and you give people less. That's exactly what's happening in Disney right now. I love that you keep a track on who's in charge, like you're sort of across all that stuff. I like to know who's, you know, high on my shit list. I think Disney is in this amazing spot where

they can be the leaders in how to treat employees. They have the money. They're not struggling for money. They can set an example for how they want the world to treat hospitality workers, and they're not doing it. And that's what pisses me off. So my love of Disney is not free from criticism of Disney. If anything, it makes me criticize Disney more because I know more about the inner workings of the company and how they operate. Of course, Disney is fair game for criticism. We've seen a lot of it in the last few years, especially when Disney launched their streaming service, they discovered a bunch of their stuff wasn't fit for modern times. Even giant films got a little warning at the top saying they had old racist ideas in them.

Dumbo, Peter Pan, The Jungle Book, and Lady and the Tramp all got their little content warning. And Disneyland and Disney World also came under fire. Certain rides needed updating, leading some older Disney fans to despair, or at least to write to their local paper. The Orlando Sentinel published an opinion piece called, I Love Disney World, But Wokeness Is Ruining the experience, in which an old white guy got angry that his favorite racist rides were changing. I like to call them the Walt, right? They're like, Walt wouldn't like this. And I'm like, it doesn't matter what Walt would like, he's dead. Also, he was progressive. So we don't know. We don't know that. But yeah,

they updated a bunch of things. They updated pirates to get rid of the part where the women were being sold at auction. So I'm sorry, men, if you want to still see your women being sold at auction. Splash Mountain is getting a re-theme to Princess and the Frog because Splash Mountain is based on a movie called Song of the South, which is about a slave. And sorry, members of the Walt Wright, that movie from 1946 got a little more than a content warning on Disney+. It didn't even get released. So Jungle Cruise, they had these tribal characters that were basically the only black animatronics in the park that were shown as savages. It was not great. I knew a lot of people that would not ride the ride because that was

problematic. And rightfully so, they should be upset with that. Now, to be clear, removing that element of the ride was a great move for Disney, a no-brainer. But what they did next feels like a weird joke, but it's not. And well, this is what happened. They did replace those black animatronics with monkeys. Oh, God. Who are these people making these decisions? Someone in that board must have been like, this isn't a great replacement. Like, what message are we trying to send out here, guys? I remember writing it the first time. I'm like, is this your answer to that? For all of its questionable decisions, Disneyland finds new ways to draw fans in.

Like Sea, S-E-A, a hidden backstory worked into every Disney park on the planet. Even your hardcore Disney fans, I'll be like, oh, do you know about sea? And they're like, what the fuck is sea? And I'm like, hmm. Yeah, count me in. What the fuck is sea? There is this not so secret, secret society that connects all the Disney parks in the world. And it started in Walt Disney World. It's called the Society of Explorers and Adventures, but it's shortened to C-S-E-A. There's this hidden backstory that's there and like Disney is putting more details in as more rides are connected to sea and the story of sea develops. And so Jungle Cruise, which has always been part of the sea lore, going back to those black animatronics when they decided to take them out

they're like great we're gonna put more sea in so there are all these crates and boxes that have returned to sea there's one crate that they put in that's returned to mystic hotel which is also in hong kong disney which is henryic's hotel, which is their haunted mansion. And he's also a sea member. So like they've interwoven the story and Jungle Cruise now is this beautiful mashup of all these sea elements and this hidden backstory that Disney is trying to tell. It's a smart move weaving in this backstory across all the parks and all the rides, making the fans, the Disney adults, feel special with this secret knowledge. No doubt Disney will eventually turn sea into a film, the Avengers of Disney's amusement parks.

It'll make millions, probably billions. Because yes, this is a business, and Disney is out to make as much money as humanly possible. It's reminded me of another thing. Isn't this some secret room or area that you get access to if you're a life member of Disneyland or something? Club 33. Club 33, right. So you have to pay your way into it.

It's very expensive. There used to be a list that you could just join. And then eventually in 20 years, they would be a list that you could just join. And then eventually in 20 years, they would be like, oh, you're up. Can you afford it? Now that list is closed and you just have to get recommended by another Club 33 member. To me, it sounds a bit like Raya for Disney adults paying to be with the Disney elite, the beautiful people. It is a very highly exclusive club. Depending on what level you are, I think there's like three or four different levels. Your initial payment into the club is

anywhere between $15,000 and $25,000. That's quite a lot. God, yeah. And then your annual payment is about the same amount. Wow. If you're ultra rich, that's pennies. There are two parts to Club 33. There's the lounge. Which is lounge nouveau. And then there's the restaurant. It's actual fine dining. There's lobster bisque, there's caviar, there's filet mignon. Wow. Good dessert menu. Oh, fantastic. And like beautiful desserts, like actual works of art. And of course, being a member, you never stand in line again. There's a bunch of other benefits that I don't even know because they just don't talk about it. It's probably like Fight Club, like the first rule of Club 33 is we don't talk about Club 33.

As someone who feels passionately about this place, how do you feel about something like this sort of elite Club 33 scenario where only the richest can belong and get this extra access? Like, does it bother you? Is it fine? It doesn't bother me because that's the world we live in. People with extra money, they can afford the special treatment. I've seen it my whole life. I grew up in Beverly Hills.

I'm sure there are people that are bitter about it. We're in America. We're in America. It's capitalism. If people can afford this shit, why not? Why not is the mantra of the United States, the unwritten subtext of the Constitution. But regardless of whether you're a Club 33 member, a Disney adult, or just a random tourist, there are rules and everyone has to stick by them. Disneyland is no place for savages. Disney is really strict on creating this sort of show, which actually does spill over to the guests. They hold us to a certain standard as well.

There's a dress code that they're very strict about. If they see you dressing inappropriately, they will either not let you through security or they'll give you like a certificate to be like go buy a shirt what you're wearing is inappropriate what's inappropriate like no footwear or like no shirt or something i've seen people there with sports bras but like from what i heard this one girl with like under boob they were like absolutely not no under boob there's no underboob in Disneyland. Yeah. If somebody's wearing a shirt that has profanity on it,

the Disneyland photographers won't take your picture. Right. It's pure. It's a place of purity and childlike wonder. Exactly. And also they have a strict rule of guests dressing like cast members. I can't go there in a full Cinderella costume because I will disrupt their character integrity if I'm walking around with a beer swearing.

While Walt Disney himself hated the idea of serving alcohol at any of his theme parks, you can drink there now in certain areas. But again, your conduct always has to be like, well, like a Disney film. I will say Disney security is amazing at controlling out of control adults. They will take you away so fast. They have secret security that is in plain clothes around a lot of the alcohol areas. So if you're trying to like sneak somebody who's underage alcohol, you'll get caught immediately.

I've seen a family get kicked out because a parent allowed their children to have a sip of alcohol, which is technically legal in California, but Disney's private property, they have their own rules, and they're like, absolutely not. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Flightless Bird is sponsored by Babbel. Now, for most of us, learning a second language in high school or college

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I just watched the finale of Succession, which is a show I love, and it reminded me of the very first episode. One of the characters, Greg, is working in a theme park and he's dressed up in character and he's horribly hungover and he vomits through his suit and there's vomit pouring out of his little cartoon mouth. I'm wondering if any of your Disneyland experiences have had any kind of disastrous elements. None that I've experienced myself, but now at the age of the Internet, it'll circulate in the community. But now at the age of the Internet, it'll circulate in the community. When Disney World opened up after the shutdown, they had a lot of issues because I think the universe was just saying, don't fucking do this. There were all these like little things that went wrong here and there on Jungle Cruise in Disney World. One of the boats sank.

A rough ride on the famous Jungle Cruise at Disney World. One of the boats nearly sunk. Pictures and video posted to social media showed that boat taking on water Thursday afternoon. The water on the ride is not deep enough for it to fully go under, but it was likely quite a scare regardless. Everyone got out safe but wet. The ride reopened a short time later. It's just one of those things that you never expect to happen because Disney's supposed to be perfect and magical and nothing's ever supposed to go wrong. But at the same time, Disney is not free from the laws of physics

and human error and mechanical error. So you get reminders of that once in a while. Disneyland is not free from the laws of physics. It's a fact worth remembering as people continue to pour in the gates, fighting for merchandise, a place in the queue, and for a good time. And how do you have a good time at Disneyland? I guess that's the ultimate question. The woman with 500 visits under her belt says the secret is to follow what she calls the Disney wind. There's just so many cool things that happen randomly. And if something catches your eye and you're like,

oh, I want to go that way. Or like, I see Alice. I'm going to go say hi to her. Like we're beelining to Space Mountain, but look, it's a Cheshire Cat. You could have all these plans that you want to do that day, but you're never going to do everything you want to do. So go follow your instinct.

Go find those little adventures and let the magic find you. It made me like Disney adults more. Talking to her. her yeah it did i just i i think maybe because she was just so self-aware and i was like if you want to take joy from this thing then that's fantastic and my cynicism sort of melted away somewhat that's good how did how do you feel about it i love it i love that there are adults who let themselves you know relinquish adulthood i like it yeah really i just want to talk about c and club 33 c was wild to me because i had no idea that they'd wound this backstory in at all had you ever heard of that no yeah that's brand new information but that's so like that makes me want to go tomorrow and search out all the sea clues.

Yeah, and they know it. They know it, right? Yeah. That's the thing. You can look at that two ways. You can look at it incredibly cynically and go, this is trying to suck me back in, and they're just building this other giant property. Or it's like, what a cool creative thing to do.

It's like with the Marvel films, right? It is. It's like they're building up this empire, you can either like get into that or you can look at it cynically and just be like oh my goodness like this is too much i mean look it's disney they're marketing geniuses obviously they really really are i mean like she said a third of america's on on america's timeline a third of it includes disney that's incredible that blew my mind. And I always think, like, New Zealand has such a short history as well. But, like, I forget that America is so incredibly short as well. We haven't been around for long.

We packed in a lot. And these cartoon characters have been with us for a lot of that time. Yeah. One thing I think that is so interesting hearing her, the things that normally would drive people crazy, like lines, bad service. I mean, not saying it has bad service, but the hotels. Not to out any hotels, but we stayed in a Disney hotel in Hawaii. Okay. Next to the Four Seasons.

Okay, right. Very close. Yes. The difference in quality of hotels. Oh, you could really notice that? They're not even on the same level. I would assume that like any sort of Disney resort is like a Four Seasons kind of experience, but not the case at all.

The rooms are much different. The service is much different. There's obviously just kids running amok all over the place. What makes it a Disney hotel? Is it themed? Yeah, it's themed. Like there's cartoon characters everywhere. Are they like wandering through the lobby?

Yep. And there's water parks and there's merch. Yeah, right. And, you know, yeah, the lobby is themed. Yeah. But it's virtually the same price as the Four Seasons. Ah, right. And you see, oh, people are choosing this.

They're choosing this experience over this other clearly superior one because it's Disney. Because it's Disney. You'll put all this stuff you know you want on the back burner because it's nostalgic. Have you heard of this new thing that Disney is just talking about recently called Story Living? No. So Story Living is like Disney is going to build its own, it's a little bit unclear what it is, but basically their own village that you can go and live in

and you can retire in it. What? It's really unclear. The CEO has talked about it being like it's all about story, but it's unclear whether it's going to have like Mickey Mouse running through the lobby and in this place. Because they've also got that other place called Celebration, which they made in, I think it was like, like was the 90s or the early 2000s so they built a town basically and

people move there thinking this is going to be the best thing ever but it turns out that disney had contracted out all the contracting to just a bunch of other people that aren't them and there were leaky roofs there was like mold on the walls and suddenly these people that moved into Celebration, this Disneyland place to live, they suddenly found, oh, it's not actually that great because it's Disney. Which makes me think of your hotel experience. Yeah, that's sad. And it was funny because when Celebration, everyone was like, this is utopia. But suddenly then there was the first robbery.

And those were like reported in the news. Because there was this idea that if we moved to a disney utopia it'll be perfect but surprise surprise it's not going to be so the story living thing i think they're setting it up at coachella near the music festival what so that's where they're going to build the first disney village wow very unclear exactly what it's gonna look like when you just brought up the CEO, I did bump when she said, we have a CEO. I love that. So she was talking like she was an employee. Yes. And she didn't clock that she was doing this.

Right. The whole conversation, and it's not all in that edited documentary, but we talked for quite a while and she would often talk about Disney World and Disneyland like it's our thing. Like our family. No, really. It was the first time i was like oh my god she thinks she's a cog in the whole system they believe they're a family and really proud of it she's not an employee being paid by disney she is paying them and she feels like she is a part of that and it's a really wonderful thing. And good on her. Like, she's aware of that. Is it Stockholm Syndrome? I mean, can we go out on a limb and say that?

Yeah, do you need help? Like, do you need to get out of here? Yeah. So we had BJ Novak on Armchair and he gave, in my opinion, a very, very good definition, his definition of nostalgia, which he says is it's memory without the anxiety i love that because i think that's what's happening there maybe the first time they went to disney there was some anxiety standing in the lines what's the ride gonna be is it gonna be busy what's the food gonna taste like but the more you go the less fear there is or anticipation and it's just left with this like and i guess also the fact that you're an adult and you're not filled just personally with all

the anxieties of being a kid about being freaked out about anything as an adult you sort of semi got your life together so you can go and enjoy these childlike things with excessive income and all that kind of thing because also i guess when you're a kid in there you want to buy all this fun stuff but your parents are probably like kid in there, you want to buy all this fun stuff, but your parents are probably like, absolutely not. You're not going to buy all those things. Sorry, I've already spent $400 on your ticket. And it's outrageous.

There's some big celebration going on about an anniversary at Disney World and they release limited edition merchandise. And a lot of Disney adults go there just for the merchandise, just to get that stuff. And then there's a whole secondary market on eBay where they're trading this stuff because it is so rare. It's like NFTs. It's like that exists within that world as well.

God. I mean, I'm actually surprised I'm not a Disney adult. It is made for me. It seems to be written like, looking at what you're wearing today, it's like very relaxed, like colorful tracksuit. I feel like it absolutely could be you. Up my alley because I love limited edition. I mean, I do really, really want to be invited into Club 33. Do you know people in there?

You must have bumped into people that are part of that. I have. And I'm going to work my magic and get myself in. Drew Carey, who we had on, we spent a large portion of the episode talking about Disney and Club 33. Amazing. And he said he would get me in. Follow that up. What a man to invite you into that world.

I would love to enter into that place with someone like that. Yes. But I don't want to shit on Disney every minute, but I have to say this. I do know people who have gone, and one of our very good friends went and she wasn't wearing the right thing oh under boob was under boob reveals she came in with under boob and she had to buy an outfit so this is all part of the cycle right like oh you're not dressed right but they're luckily we've got a lot of clothes on sale that you can cover that body up with that boob with was she okay with that no she was really she was unhappy yes but so she bought a dress

and kept the tags on because she's smart uh-huh they went in and she said it was one of the most mediocre meals they've ever had but the way she spoke about it, she literally called it fine dining. She was really impressed. Especially the whole Club 33 situation. She was like, there'll be nothing better. That's her utopia, trying to get in there. I have to go and report back. Crazy thing about all this, I still haven't been. Why? So I'm still kind of talking about this as an outsider because i find it intimidating i don't know who to go with everyone i know has

been a million times and wants to keep going i'm not a big theme park guy like i've been to universal because i love jurassic park so i'll go on the jurassic park ride but nothing in me wants to go and stand in these really long lines all day just to do what? Go on some rides, look at Mickey Mouse. There's so little appeal to it to me. Interesting. Yeah. Also the older we get, the more problematic these rides become too, which is another interesting facet of this is there's all these adults walking around who can't really ride the rides or they'll puke. Bodies are ruined. Vert are ruined they've got bad backs and stuff you know me a little bit like what would i get out of it what would i enjoy about

disneyland or disney world okay i think you would come in cynical as you are and over time you would get kind of caught up in this community and this love and this magic. I think it would actually wear down some of your cynicism. Like the joy, just the joy from these people would come through. Joy, pure joy. And that's something that would cut through my armor of cynicism that I walk around with every day. I have a weird, David, it's almost like you're equating Disney

to your old relationship with religion or something. What is this? Therapy? Yeah, it is. I was just talking to my therapist about my religious upbringing this morning. You were. Look, it's incredibly fair. I get really cynical about any system that you buy into, and I just want to be against any kind of structure.

And it definitely goes back to religion for me. And a bit annoying that you see right through me so easily, but it's fine. But yeah, I do. I get really annoyed when there's like a group that everyone buys into. And I do look at Disney and it is like a religion. People are so,

so into it. I know people find it joyous, but I'm also deeply suspicious and cynical about it to the point where even with religion you give so much money to it and i just see people pouring so much money into these theme parks and i'm like they're already so wealthy why are you making them more wealthy so that's where my brain goes yeah i mean it's weirdly similar there's money involved there's a blind faith you're encouraged to like bring other people along and just spend so much money there but at the same time i get the nostalgia aspect

because i mean i can't talk i've got more disposable income than i had when i was 10 and i'll occasionally buy things from my childhood that like i couldn't get then that i'll have like i've got this is so embarrassing but like i own figurines. I'm a 39-year-old man and I have some figurines on the shelf and I only clock it sometimes if friends come over and they look up and I sort of see their little eyes, clock them. I'm like, oh no. And then I realize what I am. And so also I can't talk because I do that. I would argue a grown man who collects little alien figurines is desperately more problematic than someone that goes to Disneyland. So I can't talk.

None of it's problematic. I do need more information on the figurines. I've moved some of them out of the lounge, like into my bedroom. I took Rob on tour. There's a little comic store and I went in there and I ducked in and Rob saw me. He saw my eyes light up and I walked out with a bag of things from my childhood. Yeah. So they're comic figurines.

They're like of your favorite comics. So if I see like a vintage Jurassic Park thing, because when I was 13, it was the first film I was allowed to see. Again, Christian upbringing. And then any alien figurines, it's like i light up it's this thing that i can't explain and yeah rob got to witness it oh my gosh well it represents kind of a freedom it's freedom and it's like i can finally get this stuff and have what i want yeah but there is this dissonance where i'm looking at disney adults like they're freaks i think other people would look at me sometimes and be like oh my goodness you collect that stuff that's quite weird and to be clear my shelf has other things on it

i've got books and really adult things just like a few figurines it's not littered with figurines don't worry i know you're a grown-up but that's what we do right we project our own insecurities onto other people so that's what's happening with you at Disney. So maybe it would, if you go, you can let some of that go. That can melt off. Because I also think being cynical is such an easy thing to do. I honestly think cynicism is the easy way out. And it's much more difficult not to be cynical. So I would like to try that.

How many figurines do you have? In New Zealand, I've got a lot more. I didn't bring them in the suitcase with me over here. No, I'd have maybe like 50 figurines. Here in Los Angeles, I've probably got three or four now. Oh, okay. You have three or four, but you only have two mugs.

I've only got two mugs. And you just procured the second one. Yeah, I've got more figurines than mugs. Yeah, that's doing really bad adulting. But yeah, why am I single? I don't know. I love this. I think it's very endearing.

Well, I will make an effort to go to one of these parks, and maybe I'll take my dictaphone and report back on how that experience goes. You're going to come back so smiley and so childlike. It's crazy I haven't gone. The journalist in me, I think, likes to look at things from the outside looking in, but I've got to immerse myself. Take off the hat. Yeah, I've got to do a Michael Mike Moore

and get myself in there, you know? Let's do it. Okay.