Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Flightless Bird: Eggs

Episode Date: April 11, 2023

In this week's Flightless Bird, David Farrier sets out to understand why Americans put their eggs in the fridge. Why the fridge, when the rest of the planet puts them in the pantry? David learns that each year, each American eats an average of 277 eggs and that America has enough chickens to provide each American with at least an egg a day. David then discovers a plethora of organizations exist around the humble egg, from the International Egg Commission to the American Egg Board. After learning America also washes all their eggs, Farrier wonders if the two are linked. But no egg organization seems to have the answers Farrier needs - including the USDA and the FDA! Eventually, Farrier finds a comrade in an egg expert at Purdue University, Darrin Karcher. Does Darrin have the answers Farrier needs? Sort of. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm David Farrier, and New Zealand are accidentally marooned in America, and I want to figure out what makes this country tick. Now they talk a lot about this country being the land of the free, but wherever I look there are just rules that make no sense to me, and one of them in particular has been puzzling me for about a year now. I think of it whenever I open my fridge, whenever I go to make myself some breakfast, rustling around for my favorite breakfast snack. I love eggs, from my head down to my legs. Heard the latest news about eggs and cholesterol?

Write for our booklet, Eggs and Good Health. Oh, you gotta love it, the incredible edible egg. Yes, the incredible edible egg. We've got them in New Zealand as well, but in America they come with a rule. A rule that's been troubling me for months. I look on the cardboard carton of my organic large brown grade A eggs, and there it is. Keep refrigerated at or below 45 degrees Fahrenheit. Another month and a different brand of eggs, this time it's Vital Farms Pasture Raised Eggs. And there on the carton, keep eggs refrigerated. If you're an American hearing this, you probably don't know what my problem is. But if you're not in America, you're probably as puzzled as I am. Why is everyone in America putting their eggs in the fridge? Why is that valuable cold space being filled to the brim with eggs? In New Zealand,

we put our eggs in the pantry, or the cupboard where you're meant to. No one in their right mind is putting their eggs in the fridge. Fridge real estate is a valuable commodity. Why would it be wasted by filling it with a load of eggs? I've finally decided that I need to get to the bottom of this mystery. So, grab your nearest egg, crack it open, fling it into a pan and get frying because this is the egg episode. Monica, where do you keep your eggs? The refrigerator. Rob, eggs?

Refrigerator. Explain. Because you don't want to get egg poisoned. It's as easy as that. So you're taught as a child. How did you come by this information? When you go to the grocery store, they're in the refrigerated section. They're in a refrigerator.

And fridges have built-in shelves for eggs. Good point. I've noticed this here as well. In New Zealand, I'm sure some fridges have it, but generally we would never have a special built-in thing. It's so embedded in American culture. It is. That this is where your eggs go. Whereas in New zealand we're not having it straight in the pantry i will say my friends ryan and amy have chickens who lay eggs and they do not put them in the fridge interesting when i went to texas for

christmas we stayed at a farm that had chickens and there was just a basket on the counter that they'd give us eggs in the morning. Okay. And pray tell, when you ate those eggs and when you've eaten your friend's eggs, Monica, did you become sick? Did you become violently ill? Or was it okay that they weren't in the fridge? I didn't try them because they're obviously trying to egg poison me. Yeah, we got violently ill.

It was weird though. Like I said something to natalie i was like these should be in the fridge what are they doing out here what do you think is going to happen i've heard this okay i've heard that it's not necessary a hundred percent to put them in the fridge but that i think there is something about our pasteurization makes it so that we do have to but maybe in other countries they're not doing the same thing. I don't know. The pasteurization, is that milk or everything?

I just don't know. I was told from the Texans we were with that when they wash the eggs, that whole process is why they have to go in the fridge because there's like a membrane or something. We get to this. So if you're getting them fresh from the chicken, that's still there. It's like a little gunkier. Oh, ew.

Well, this is all things we explore today, and i'm thrilled to go through this with you do we explore white eggs versus brown and that type of thing but i talked to an egg expert and he did tell me about this this myth that people think that brown eggs are more nutritious than a white egg. Yeah. Nothing more nutritious about it. Actually, I jotted down what he said. He said, there's this big misconception that if you have a brown egg, it's got to be more nutritious. The reality is it's not. And you've got to know when you crack open that brown egg,

look at the inside of the shell, it's going to be white, even if it's a brown egg. So it all comes down to like the bird. Okay. So some birds are laying white eggs and some are laying brown eggs? Absolutely. But if you look under the shell, it's basically every egg is exactly the same. It's just a different layer.

It doesn't change the nutritious factor. I think that that guy's racist and he just wants to take away any clout that the brown eggs have. Yeah. Well, I was curious because when I do end up talking to this egg expert, I was wondering. Say it, say it. Yeah, egg expert.

Yeah, there we go. There it is. Is he in the pocket of big egg? Have they worked their way in there? Because I wondered the whole time. I was actually quizzing him about it. And he denied it. He said, no one's paying me off to say

any of these things because going into the supermarket what do you call here the gross the grocery store there are so many different sorts of eggs do you have a default one you'd go to like are you loyal to a brand what do you look for when you're getting your eggs i'm loyal to vital farms what do you like about them they used to be a sponsor okay i like your honesty that's great i really appreciate that but they're not anymore and i still that is what i choose they like take care of the chickens and i feel better about their practices yeah i always look for organic on the label jumbo is great are we going to talk about jumbo versus regular because we don't get into the jumbo what do we get into what did you do okay

maybe we should start the top it's a complex investigation let's start it off okay come out in the middle and we'll talk about it a bit more this goes fucking deep i had eggs this morning oh what sort it's scrambled oh yum i like to boil mine three minutes yum yum soft boiled new zealand it's difficult to know where to begin when embarking on an important investigation and it's difficult when no one besides you seems to be asking the question in this case why do americans put their eggs in the fridge? First, I wanted to make sure that my theory was correct, that putting your eggs in the fridge is a distinctly American thing not shared by the rest of the world.

Every story I heard from all around the planet went something like this. I'm Elle, I live in Norwich in England, and I keep my eggs in the pantry. I'm from Mauritania in the Sahara Desert and we kept our eggs on the top of the fridge, not in the fridge, outside in the Sahara Desert. So what are American eggs hiding? My theory was correct. Putting your eggs in the fridge is very American. But why? Why in the fridge? Why in America does it go from the chicken's vagina into the human fridge? To get an answer, I turned to the International Egg

Commission. Dedicated to the global egg industry, they have members spanning 80 different countries. Based in London, I loaded up Skype and dialed in their number. Just quickly, if you missed that, that's me doing an American accent. Instead of just saying, how are you? I go, how are you? I go, how are you? I always do this on the phone because when I try and order things on the phone in America, no one understands me. If I go, can I have one large pizza, please? I get stunned silence. But if I go, can I please have one large pizza, please? Then they know what I'm saying, even though I sound ridiculous. Anyway, I end up doing this even when I'm not calling America,

like in this case where I'm calling the International Egg Commission in London. Hello, very well, thanks, are you? You're good, hey, I'm calling from a podcast in America called Flightless Bird, and I'm trying to find someone to talk to to figure out why Americans put their eggs in the fridge. why Americans put their eggs in the fridge? I'm not sure we're the right people to speak to, but let me see if I can find out for you. Just a moment.

Thank you. As I sit on hold, I try to imagine what the office of the International Egg Commission looks like. I imagine a building shaped like a big egg. And the reception desk is probably an egg shape too. In the cafeteria, it's just eggs for as far as the eye can see. After a few minutes on hold, and in my imagination, the operator is back. Hello there, sorry to keep you. I just needed to check because I wasn't sure how to

answer the question. What we would recommend, because we're actually a member organization, we wouldn't be able to advise on that kind of thing, but would suggest you contact the American Egg Board. So there's a board just for America? Yes. Yeah. We're the organization that sort of pulls all of the international organizations together. But yeah, the U.S. do have their own. So yeah, American Egg Board are the people to contact. Part of me was worried I was just being fobbed off, that I was in a game of toss the egg and I was the egg. In case I was being tossed, I threw in a bonus question before I hung up. Just really quickly, I'm from New Zealand originally. Do you have outfits in New Zealand as well? There'll be a country organization in New Zealand. Yeah, I'm fairly sure of that. Wow, I guess eggs are international, aren't they?

They're very international and some countries eat lots and lots. They consume a heck of a lot of As I put the phone down, I wondered how many eggs different countries do eat. According to the New Zealand Heart Foundation, back in New Zealand, we eat 237 eggs per person each year. In America, it's a bit higher. Each person eats about 277 eggs per person, an extra 40 eggs over New Zealand. Of course, being in America, all those eggs would be stored in the fridge. Frustrated by the International Egg Board having no answers, I did some googling about eggs. I discovered that all American eggs, after being laid by a chicken, are thoroughly washed,

which removes a natural layer surrounding the egg called the bloom. A website called Backyard Poultry said that removing the bloom opens up the egg's pores. Maybe getting rid of the layer means the egg is more open to the elements, and that's why it needs to be refrigerated. Maybe I found my answer using Google, but I'm not going to trust a website. I needed the American Egg Board. Good morning. Oh, hey, it's David Farrier speaking. How are you? Great, David. How are you doing? We were both doing great, which is often how everyone says they're doing when you ask. But I suspect often people aren't

telling the truth. Regardless, the receptionist tells me that putting eggs in the fridge is a USDA requirement, something the United States Department of Agriculture simply demands you do. But I ask why it's a requirement here when it isn't in New Zealand, and she tells me that the American Egg Board is under the guidance of the USDA, so simply have to follow the rules they set down. Frustrated I'm not getting anywhere, I state my theory. Is it because in America the eggs are washed and so that kind of outside layer is taken off? That's what someone told me the reason was. She tells me that yes, all eggs are washed and the refrigeration stops the growth of certain bacteria. She says putting eggs in the fridge

is an added layer of safety. But then, devastating news. I ask if I can quote her directly, put her on the record, and she says no, I'd need to talk to the USDA. Only the USDA can confirm why eggs need to go in the fridge, officially, which makes sense because they made the rule. She tells me the USDA has a meat and poultry hotline and gives me the number. Thank you for calling the USDA's meat and poultry hotline. For English, please press 1. So far, the International Egg Commission had foiled me off to the American Egg Board, who would now fold me off to the USDA. I crossed my fingers. For recall information, please press 1. For information on food handling before and after

a natural disaster, please press 2. If you would like to speak with a food safety specialist, please press three. Three. An operator picks up and I go into my now well-rehearsed spiel. I'm just looking for someone I could talk to about the regulations around eggs in America. Part of me assumes I've hit the jackpot with the USDA, but then disaster. I'm told that shelled eggs are out of the USDA's jurisdiction. I was told I'd have to head right to the top. The FDA. Oh, the FDA. Yes. The FDA, the United States Food and Drug Administration. Ah, the FDA. I call the FDA. If this is a life-threatening emergency, hang up and dial 911. If you're a physician calling for an emergency IND, hang up and dial

855-543-3784 to report an emergency that involves food, drugs, medical devices. Listening to this serious list of options, part of me wonders if I should be bothering this government department with my questions about why I'm putting my eggs in the fridge. But this is where the path led, and I have to see where it ends. Of all the departments I'd call today, the FDA had the gnarliest set of options by far, Allergenic products, gene therapy, tissue and cellular-based therapies. Press 1. Of all the departments I'd called today, the FDA had the gnarliest set of options by far. Eventually, I found the one for me. There is currently one call ahead of you.

All representatives are currently assisting other callers. I waited, and I waited, and I waited. Whoever that person was ahead of me, they had a lot on their mind. I killed time by watching some videos on TikTok. Whoa. A boar came out of the woods and charged at some snowboarders at a resort in Miyoko, Japan. Oh my goodness. It ran at the second person who was able to use the board for some protection. After that, it ran off.

Staff at the nearby snowboarding shop originally posted the video. Then suddenly, the FDA is on the line. Thank you for calling the Food and Cosmetics Information Center. What state are you calling from? I'm calling from California. And how can I help you today? I go through to my little spiel, and the FDA tells me they don't know. That's a direct quote.

They said I needed to talk to an agricultural extension program in my state. I asked what that was, and I'm told I need to find a university in California that's publicly funded that can apparently answer questions like mine. Before I go, I ask what the FDA even does if it can't answer my questions about putting eggs in the fridge. I'm told the FDA regulates the farms that produce the eggs. The FDA tells consumers that all Americans should buy their eggs refrigerated and keep them refrigerated at home. But going on this phone call, they don't say why. I ask if the FDA will arrest me if I don't follow this guideline.

And she says the FDA can only regulate the people who make the eggs and sell the eggs. What I do with my eggs once I've got them is up to me. But again, she recommends I put them in the fridge. After hearing all this, I lie to her. Okay, no, great. No, that's so helpful. And hang up. But inside, I'm absolutely fuming. Absolutely fuming that the International Egg Board, the American Egg Board, the United States Department of Agriculture, and the Food and Drug Administration can't officially tell me why they're telling me to put my eggs in the fridge. I start trying universities, starting with Purdue University, which came up in the egg articles I read. But Purdue told me that I needed to talk to the

executive administrator of the Indiana State Egg Board. I'd had it up to my eyeballs with egg boards, but I tried. And the executive administrator for the Indiana Egg Board told. I'd had it up to my eyeballs with egg boards, but I tried. And the executive administrator for the Indiana Egg Board told me, and I quote, not sure I'm the most qualified person to speak to your question. They sent me back to Purdue University to someone who was called a poultry extension specialist. Jackpot. This must be the agricultural extension thing the FDA had told me about. Fingers trembling, I called the number for the poultry extension specialist at Purdue University. How are you feeling, Monica?

You're in a cliffhanger? It's a cliffhanger. Trying to build more cliffhangers into these episodes, you know, really keep people listening. I like that. I'm stressed out. I've experienced this a few times before where often the simplest questions are the most difficult ones to get answered. Well, this, I mean, it's the American egg episode, but really it's the American red tape episode. We're getting into that territory. Yeah. And also another thing that I love about America,

which is your answer phone messages. And look, again, we have this in New Zealand. You get put on hold. You have different options. But the number of options in America just eclipses anything I've ever encountered before. It's wild. Wow. I do want to say something really important about eggs because you mentioned

chicken vaginas. I did. And the appropriate word is vulva. Oh, okay. Chicken vulva. Now I have a personal. You're about to say, I have a vagina. I have a vulva. Oh, I did it again. I have a personal issue. If I'm at a restaurant, I cannot order any food that has eggs and chicken. Oh. Because it's the chicken's period. And it's too much crossover, and it makes me feel sick to think about. So this is something that might make you feel nauseous. But I, in New Zealand, I had a parrot, my best friend for a while, called Keith. Yeah.

And Keith loved eggs. Ew. He loved chicken eggs. So Keith would guzzle back eggs. No. Like, no, tomorrow, if ever I was eating egg, he'd eat anything I ate. He'd jump into my cereal and all sorts. But he loved eggs and it

did occur to me at one point yeah that's sort of eating his own a bird is eating a bird yeah yeah and also he died right some chicken once as well no keith ended up coupling up with another son conya ended up having babies so keith wasn't technically a keith sort of more of a shelly i guess i was i'm thinking of fudge. Yeah, fudge died. Why did you have to bring up fudge? I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

That was my budgie when I was eight years old. Yeah, really sweet. He'd sleep on the pillow next to me. Yeah. Anyway, so if it's like a burrito, like a breakfast item, and they're offering chicken in with the egg, that's a no-go for me. You're not doing it. These are two different processes of this chicken's life. Get a no-go for me. You're not doing it. These are two different

processes of this chicken's life. Get them the hell away from me. Yes. But of course, a pig baking in eggs any day. Today. Today. That's what I had. Isn't it strange? I mean, they are such an unusual thing to eat. If it was fertilized, it would be like a beautiful living bird. I know. And have you spent much time with chickens? Oh, no. Oh, they're really fun creatures. And so the idea that we guilt-free, just including myself, sort of guzzle back their periods is such an unusual thing. I mean, if that egg was left and fertilized,

I guess that's the whole thing as well of where these eggs come from. Are they from chickens that are in little cages? Yes. Are they in pastures? It's very easy to put all that stuff out of your mind when it's just a cute little egg in front of you, which are delicious. But it is on the scale of animal rights and eating. It's low on the scale, right? Because it's not killing the bird. It's just eating its good, delicious periods. The chicken doesn't have to be killed. The main issue, I guess, is, yeah, what conditions it's kept in.

But they're not chopping its head off at any point. I was too scared to get into all that stuff for this episode. It's probably like chicken part two or something. Yeah. Because that's a whole other thing. And we have the same conversations in New Zealand about that stuff as well. There was this really amazing current affairs story in New Zealand that a colleague did where they found out that this one of our most popular brands that was stamped with sort of a pasture stamp you know these are chickens

that are free running they're happy they lay the eggs wherever they want they were actually all factory farmed and they basically doorstop this guy and you revealed this really popular brand none of the chickens were free they were all all kept in really terrible conditions. Oh, no. Because you trust the label. That's where the FDA, as I found out, would come in. They regulate, and the USDA, they regulate how the actual producers are dealing with it. This is a ding, ding, ding to the movie episode. The trailers are misleading you into seeing the movie.

It's kind of the same thing. But that one's nonsensical and this one makes sense. 100%. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Flightless Bird is brought to you by Athletic Greens. Now I started taking AG1 because I don't have the time to grapple

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you have to do is visit athleticgreens.com slash flightless. Again, that's athleticgreens.com slash flightless to take ownership over your health and pick up the ultimate daily nutritional insurance. Okay, do you want to know how my investigation goes? Yes, please. Okay, let's get some answers. A few weeks into my egg investigation, I still don't know why Americans are all advised to put their eggs in the fridge. But there's light at the end of the tunnel. I'm finally speaking to a poultry extension specialist at Purdue University, Darren Karcher. Darren earned his PhD studying gastrointestinal development in turkeys, chickens, and ducks, and is an associate professor at Purdue. So I'm Darren Karcher, the poultry extension specialist at Purdue University. I get

to work with commercial industry, so millions of birds down to people that have six chickens in their backyard. So I get to see the whole spectrum of people when it comes to poultry. Darren is a revelation. A man who not only appears keen to answer my questions, any questions about eggs, but he'll go on the record about it. What's your favorite way to have eggs? My favorite is probably just scrambled. I'm thrilled. So far, people haven't been very helpful. I'll be tempted to describe them as eggheads. The term egghead was actually birthed

in America in the early 50s, an insult thrown at those who supported Adlai Ewing Stevenson II, the Democratic nominee for president in 1952, the world's first official egghead. From there, the insult caught on. American movies like Home Alone making sure it became commonplace even in faraway lands like New Zealand. Now? No, tomorrow, egghead, now! But Darren Karcher was no egghead. He was a good egg.

So my job is, David, you reach out and say, I have a question about eggs. And I'm like, great, let's talk about them. How did you become so egg-obsessed? David, you reach out and say, I have a question about eggs. And I'm like, great, let's talk about them. How did you become so egg obsessed? It's called 18 years of growing up with mail order hatchery. So my parents own a business where they sell baby chicks to people that want the six chickens in the backyard or 4-H projects, FFA, things like that. It's been a long few weeks and I decided to cut to the chase.

Why is America putting their eggs in the fridge all the time? Well, the first question I'd ask you, David, is why don't you put yours in the fridge? Good God. I need answers, Darren, not questions. I'm not here for your egg riddles. I'm putting things like butter in there. I'm putting things that need to go in the fridge in the fridge. Eggs don't need to go in the fridge in the fridge. Eggs don't need to go in the fridge. Well, if you look at the US, we're one of two or three places in the world.

Japan is one. And I think it's certain parts of Australia, maybe that they actually wash their eggs. And so when you wash your eggs, then the other side is to put them into your fridge to preserve that quality and freshness to maintain that as long as possible. Okay, so washing does have something to do with it, something unique to America and a few other countries, including Japan. But why wash them in the first place? Back in the 50s and 60s, we were having a lot of rotten and exploding eggs in our food supply. And so the USDA, so United States Department of Agriculture, said we need to put a stop to this. And so put into place then that we needed to start to wash our eggs and refrigeration and some other things like

that that we now do today. So was this my answer? That in the 50s and 60s, America experienced some kind of egg explosion problem? And their answer was to wash every single egg and put them in the fridge? But this theory posits that eggs were exploding back before they were washed, that washing and refrigerating were both ordered at the same time. His answer has just created more questions. What entity made that call and roughly what time? So I think it was made by the USDA Ag Marketing Service. And I want to say that it was in the early 70s. So what's the correlation between washing an egg and having to put it in the fridge?

So the biggest thing is that everybody talks about this bloom or cuticle, which is the outside of the egg. And everybody believes that then it is this almighty halo that surrounds the egg and it will never, ever allow anything in. The reality is that over time that cuticle sloughs off. So it disappears. And if you have any bacteria or anything like that, they can penetrate through the pores into the egg and causing problems. Really, the biggest thing for us for refrigeration is once we wash them, we're putting them in

there to maintain a high level of quality so that you've got good eggs for baking. You know, you get higher rise in your angel food cakes. So it's for their functional properties. This is making me feel crazy. According to this expert, this egg-spert, if you will, washed or unwashed, the bloom is often going to come off. So maybe it's not about the washing. All this talk of washing and refrigeration,

it seems to be a chicken-and-the-egg type situation, an unsolvable riddle destined to drive you crazy. And I feel crazy. I still don't understand the fundamental question of why in New Zealand we're not putting our eggs in the fridge. Nothing's exploding. Nothing's going wrong. Nobody's getting sick. What's the difference?

So, to be honest, I don't know that I can tell you, David. Fending off insanity i realized something darren's saying i don't know that i can tell you maybe this is the first honest answer i've had during this investigation i mean if you look at other parts of the world they don't refrigerate eggs either. It's not uncommon to go to another country, not only see the eggs in the center of the aisle or find them sitting on flats out in the middle of the sun. You would never find them like that here in the US. And so it just comes back to the food supply. We pride ourselves in the US as having one of the safest food supplies in the world.

And so we just have very strict regulations on how we have to handle our eggs. Keep in mind, they are a raw commodity. So we still have to treat them as a raw material that can make people sick. If they're not handled correctly, you can still end up with food illness. What is the worst thing that can happen with an off egg? Obviously, no one wants an off egg because it's hideously smelly and whatnot. How much of a health hazard is an egg? Well, so the biggest thing that we have to be concerned with is salmonella. That is one of the things that we are constantly being monitored for within the egg industry as we produce our eggs. If you are a healthy individual and you end

up with some salmonella, yeah, you may get really sick. If you are immunocompromised or older or younger, you could die from it. And so why would we even want to take that chance? More people are becoming sick from a salmonella outbreak that promoted a massive egg recall. At least 35 people across nine states have been infected by the bacteria. The reality is any consumer, once they leave that grocery store, they can do with it whatever the heck they want. There is never going to be the food safety police show up at your door and say, show me where your eggs are. That's just not the way this is going to work. It appears the answer as to why Americans put their eggs in the fridge is just because they're being told to.

At some point, the health gods decreed that producers wash eggs and supermarkets and consumers put them in the fridge. Hundreds of millions of eggs, all in the fridge, all of the time. The second they're out of that chicken, pop them in the fridge. How is the humble egg doing in America? Is it as popular as ever? Is demand increasing as population sizes go up? When you look at consumption and things like that, it is continuing to increase. People are still eating eggs. We've got 300 million laying hens in the US. We can produce an egg for every person in the US. He tells me America's top three egg producing states are Iowa, Ohio, and Indiana, which is why

Darren is at Purdue. It's egg country. Around 67% of Americans' eggs are commodity eggs, meaning that chickens are kept in what he calls conventional cages. Over the last seven or eight years, there's been a big push towards cage-free eggs. Like all things American, this change is due to the demands of the market, of what people want to buy and what they want to spend. With all things American, this change is due to the demands of the market, of what people want to buy and what they want to spend. With all this talk of eggs, as I wind up my conversation, it occurs to me we've just been talking about chicken eggs in the fridge. Why are we just eating chicken eggs? There are so many eggs out there. I mean, what about the goose and its golden egg? It seems like an untapped marketer's dream.

You know, one thing I've learned since I've been here, it's always very entrepreneurial. I mean, what about the goose and its golden egg? It seems like an untapped marketer's dream. You know, one thing I've learned since I've been here, it's always very entrepreneurial. People are always thinking of new things. Has there been any other push here for any other birds and bird eggs? I mean, turkeys, we love turkeys in America. Why are we eating turkey eggs? Quail? Are people eating quail eggs?

Or is it just the chicken? So the predominance of what we find, right, is the chicken egg. But if you go to other parts of the country, you may find your quail eggs in the store, turkey eggs, duck eggs. Why haven't they taken off everywhere? I mean, it just depends if there's a market and can that market support whatever type of egg that you're producing? The US, we have 50 states, we have 50 different egg rules. So every state regulates how they manage eggs and how they sell eggs within their own state. So for example, in Indiana, we have the Indiana State Egg Board. They're only responsible for chicken eggs. If you want to sell quail eggs, you have to go talk to the health department.

And you can go to a different state and it'll be the complete opposite. I'm not sure how much of it is due to people are confused about who do I really talk to if I wanted to start to sell these quail eggs, right? I know the feeling he's talking about being confused about who to talk to about eggs. Is there anything else that you find surprises people about the egg? I mean, it is such an unusual, you're sort of, you're eating an embryo, you find surprises people about the egg? I mean, it is such an unusual, you're sort of, you're eating an embryo, aren't you? Essentially. It's a weird thing to do. No, David, you are not eating an embryo. All right. The reality is yes. The point of the egg is to produce a chick. The eggs that we buy in the grocery store are not fertilized eggs. However, in some grocery store chains, you may be able to find a place on the showcase

that says fertilized eggs. Those are, in fact, fertilized eggs, and that is different from the commodity eggs or the other eggs that you may find in the store. Just like with this entire episode, a simple question's led to no clear answer. If anything, it just leads to more questions, an eternity of questions. Why are they selling some fertilized eggs in some stores? I didn't even know they did that. Yeah, so there are some people that believe the eggs are more nutritious for you if it's been fertilized.

Is there any science backing that? Not that I'm aware of, but hey, if you want it and you're willing to pay me for it, I'll produce it for you. Yeah, I think you just summed up the United States of America quite well. This is my last question. It's the most important one. If you had two eggs in front of you, one was a New Zealand egg, unwashed, it had been birthed by the chicken, left on the shelf, not in the fridge. And the other egg is an American egg. It's been water blasted, put straight in the fridge.

What egg are you having? Well, I can speak from going to other countries, David. I eat those eggs in other countries, so I'll eat either one. What a cop-out answer, but also what a wonderful man. He was there for me, but also I got to say, I still feel like I'm a bit crazy. What blew my mind? Everyone had told me that once the bloom is washed off That's why you've got to put it in the fridge But he essentially said, which I think is really interesting That bloom is going to come off anyway Right So it's not this water blasting

It was just this decision that came We're going to wash and refrigerate I know the answer Oh, okay You could have come straight to me Fuck, I should have called you Yeah, I was the caller ahead of you. I was on hold for an hour and a half.

Oh, that's maddening. The reason is, ding, ding, ding, American suing. That is literally why. It's because everything in this country is protected. You are trying to protect yourself from a lawsuit. Right. And so that is what's happening here. It's let's take every single precaution,

even if it's a little too extra, even if it's pretty much unnecessary, but just in case this could help one rotten egg, even though rotten eggs are extremely rare, but even if this helps, we're going to do it so that we don't get sued. Yeah, no, that makes complete sense. And when I Googled for like a clip of salmonella reports on news about outbreaks, they were everywhere.

And whenever it happens, it's this huge, huge deal. So I guess producers of eggs, the worst PR they could get, and of course they'll get sued, is anyone getting any kind of disease, right? Or a recall. Yeah, like callback millions of eggs from grocery stores. That's the worst. And I get things last longer in the fridge from grocery stores. That's the worst. And I get things last longer in the fridge, obviously, and that's all great. I guess it's what you said earlier.

It is more about the crazy bureaucracy. And I just love that no one could give me a straight answer. Yeah, that was amazing. That was a goose chase. And for anyone also, if anyone's thinking, why didn't I reach out? I'm sort of calling these poor phone operators and quizzing them about it. I reached out to all the agencies on their email and left messages. No one got back to me.

So I was eventually forced just to call the line. Yeah. And say, hey, why are the eggs in the fridge? 300 million laying chickens. That's absurd. Just churning out eggs for our pleasure. 300 million laying chickens. That's absurd. Just churning out eggs for our pleasure. I do think really good to know where your eggs are coming from and checking to make sure they are pasture raised.

I actually got stuck into him on the phone because it's funny that a university is where everyone eventually sent me to get answers. Yeah. And that's all he deals with. His language is really interesting because he never called them caged eggs because we'd call them factory farms and like caged eggs. He had another term for them, but it was just his language was quite funny because I guess he does deal with government departments and manufacturers and customers. So I think he has to be careful

how he does state things. Exactly. Well, yeah. I mean, I don't want to say he's in Big Egg's pocket because that's the stupidest sentence that could ever come out of anyone's mouth. But since Indiana does deploy, as we learned, so many eggs. So many. They're not all pasture raised. Many are going to be caged. Totally.

So he does have to be careful because I'm sure he is involved i was trying to bait him the whole interview into like slagging off caged eggs and how terrible it was because i think it is like i think chickens should be out roaming and not just shoved in these enclosures and he wasn't gonna get swayed into my like language he was like they got enough room in those enclosures, et cetera. But I mean, my friend has chickens in their backyard. Yeah. There's nothing happier than a chicken just pecking around, making a mess, shitting everywhere and laying eggs and being happy.

And you see them all together in any kind of enclosure. And it's just kind of sad. Which, again, is why I'd always buy eggs that say pasture raised. It would be really cool of any of the animals i'd like to have it would be a chicken imagine if you got a bunch of chickens in your new house you would drive the people around you crazy they would imagine having a rooster would you let them in the house or this would just be backyard a backyard are the hansons inside no their backyard and they have the cute pen i love this one of the chicks oh no did they eat it it happens no i think it's actually it's really hard to keep those

little chicks alive oh yeah you've got to know what you're doing yeah totally another interesting thing he said during the pandemic a lot of people started getting chickens in their backyard he did say a big misconception is it's not cheaper if you're having your own, because once you get into feed and maintaining the area, it's going to cost you the same, if not a bit more than just buying them. That's not a reason not to do it. It wouldn't be to cut costs. It would be to have eggs when you want, fresh eggs. Totally. My older brother in New Zealand, he has chickens and it is really nice to go out in the morning, open up the enclosure and there's eggs lying there. It's

really beautiful. Do you taste a difference when you eat your brother's chicken's eggs versus your grocery store eggs? I think they taste better, but it's, I would say it's purely in my own mind because I'm like, I know where these are from and this is a happy chicken. I think that's the reason why. I mean, I think happy beings create other happy beings. I agree. I completely agree. Happy period.

This has turned into a spirituality podcast. Would you eat a fertilized egg? No. Okay, I'm glad you brought that up. Do you know about Balut? It's a Filipino delicacy. Yeah, tell us about that because that's a slightly more developed egg. Yeah, so it's a fertilized bird egg,

usually a duck, and it's incubated for 14 to 21 days. But there's like a... It's an embryo. There's like a beak sometimes and feathers. No! That is in there. No! Yeah, it's like a yeah it's a delicacy but they also like put it on fear factor have you tried one rob i've tried to order it but i have not

tried it i'd be curious what it tastes like if it's more eggy or more chickeny or what the vibe is aesthetically it's not a great vibe and you're crunching on the beat i mean natalie's natalie's family's had it yeah so it's philippines i mean it's a real culture shock isn't it if you haven't had it you're just like but is there any different to like shoving a chicken or an egg down your throat like they're all pretty gross okay but is it cooked usually boiled or steamed and then you eat it from the shell okay so it is cooked i guess I guess I was just imagining it raw. Sort of a raw baby chicken kind of thing.

Yeah, it's a buzz. But I mean, there's a reason, I guess, they put them on shows like Fear Factor, right? Because to a certain audience, it's like, holy mack, that's intense. Seems a little culturally insensitive, but... Yeah, no, don't get me wrong. It does, it does.

Some of Fear Factor has aged badly. There really is no difference. It's just what you're used to. And that is all cultural. Wow. Eating crickets and certain kind of. Yeah, exactly. Oh, my goodness.

Still got the protein. But it's fertilized by another duck then, like a sperm, male duck. Yeah, not like a human or anything. Yeah, that's the other catch. That person has fucked the duck. And this little embryo is part human, part duck I'm always waiting to get a double yolk I've always wanted a freaky egg

I'm always cracking looking for it I've never encountered it Occasionally you'll get a chicken egg growing inside a chicken egg So you've got a shell within a shell That happens occasionally Which is pretty buzzy But I bet in the ones you get at the grocery store They get rid of those.

Yeah, if they can tell. Right. If they could tell. They might be like a bit bigger or chunkier. A question I had, what is an angel cake? Oh, angel food cake. An angel food cake. It's a sponge-like cake, plain white cake.

Is it tasty? Grandmas love it. Grandmas love it. Grandmas love it. You often eat it with strawberries or like whipped cream. Is it an American invention? Or is it from some angel food cake? As he said it, occasionally when I'm interviewing people for topics, I'll say things and I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about?

But it's nothing to do with the episode. So I sort of let it go. Well, okay. It's been debated. Historians believe that these cakes originated from african american slaves oh that's right because making the cake is required intensive labor to whip air into the egg whites what a crazy like origin story wow we really stumbled upon something i did not know that angel food cakes are probably another episode in some way. Where do I get these from?

Are they like from a Vons or a Galsons? Yeah, you can get like a Sarah Lee angel food cake. Do they have icing on the top? No. What's on the top? It's just like plain cake. It's like a muffin. No.

Sometimes they're glazed. They often have, I think, like whipped cream and strawberries. Okay. But you eat that with the angel. I'm thinking Sarah lee is more pound cake pound cake is denser much denser angel food is very light okay my mom would eat it like on her diets all the time oh really okay because there's so much egg that it's just yeah right so you're saying indicating certain eggs would maybe make a better angel. Well, egg whites would fluff it up.

Okay. There's also the thing with eggs where, obviously, the American Egg Board, the ad I played at the beginning, the incredible edible egg, what a great marketing ploy. Yeah. But there's debate. For a while, eggs were meant to be like the best thing in the world, right? Yes.

But then you had too many eggs. All that protein. Cholesterol. And cholesterol can be a nightmare as well, right? Well, not the protein, the cholesterol. The cholesterol, sorry. So I have high cholesterol. It runs in my family.

Do you? Yes. No eggs for you? No, I eat tons of eggs because there's been this back and forth on it where eggs are the best. Then all of a sudden in the 90s, it was, oh no, eggs have a ton of cholesterol, so you can't eat too many of those. And now I feel like we've circled back medically to, no, eggs are fine. Okay. I find this very confusing.

Same. Yeah, okay. There was this big thing in New Zealand where they'd push this cereal called Nutri-Grain. It was called Iron Man Nutri-Grain. And it was every – it was probably an American cereal. I don't even know. Yeah, we had Nutri-Grain.

You had Nutri-Grain. But it was like the ads were all was probably an American cereal. I didn't even know. Yeah, we had Nutri-Grain. You had Nutri-Grain. But it was like the ads were all like, this is breakfast. It's starting your day. It's healthy. All the ads were like these beautiful muscly swimmers swimming. Sure. And I remember watching and going, oh, my God, this is the healthiest meal of the day. A generation of Kiwis grew up on Nutri-Grain. Oh.

It's just sugar. The worst thing you could be eating ever. I just feel like we're all caught in all this marketing bullshit. I think eggs feels a part of that world back and forth. I'm not comparing it to Nutri-Grain. Yeah, please don't because eggs are animal made. They're natural. They're a whole product. Exactly. It's not a cereal product. No, completely. They're actually very different. My point was you're told one day something's great for you. The next, it's like a nightmare. I guess the lesson

is everything in moderation. American diet culture, that's an episode. Oh, that's a friggin' episode. Well, this was fun. Eggs go in the fridge. Do you want to talk about your visual aid? Yeah, I bought in some eggs. I don't know why, because we all know

what eggs look like. We're not going to eat those. Those haven't been refrigerated. Oh no, I never refrigerate here. Wait, you don't know why because we all know what eggs look like we're not gonna eat those those haven't been refrigerated oh no I never refrigerate here wait you don't no so don't eat eggs at David's house so you buy them from the refrigerated section of the grocery store first thing I do I warm those things up seems problematic to me as you're changing the temperature of it you're definitely not David you're definitely not supposed to do that if it starts refrigerated you do have to keep it refrigerated That's probably a good point It's my form of protest

I don't want to be told what to do I don't like America telling me where to put my food products I'll put their eggs where I want And to some of those people I wanted to say Why don't you shove that egg up your ass That's what I wanted to say to some of those people When they wouldn't give me an answer But I didn't because I'm polite

One thing I did want to say My my friend Rosabelle was sitting. I lived with her. Rosabelle. You're my bestie in New Zealand. I know you get a bit jealous. One time she was sitting on the floor finishing her nails or something. Yeah. And there was a carton of eggs on the bench.

Hold on. Did you just say that because she's a girl? And that seemed like something a girl would do is finish her nails? No, she was finishing her nails. Are you sure? No, she was at peace. She was concentrating. I wasn't just making this up.

It sets the scene. She was occupied, looking at her nails, getting ready to go out or something. Some sort of girls club or something. I'll do some knitting. Kill all fights. And I saw some eggs on the bench and i just thought wouldn't it be funny to just get an egg and just crack it on her head and it was the funniest thing in my mind and so i walked over and i got the egg and i went over and i just cracked it on rosabelle's head

and the second the second i did it i realized that wasn't funny to her because she was just set to go out. How crazy of her. And I've never seen her so she looked at me. I've done mean things to her in the past, but I've never been looked at with such like. Like my face right now? I was despised. She despised me in that moment. And I felt so bad.

And she had to go to the shower and wash the egg out. The shells were everywhere. What did you think was going to happen? I thought it would just, she could towel it off or something. Ew. But anyway, my point is. How old were you when this happened? When I went back to New Zealand, like a year ago or something.

Wait, are you serious? Yeah, it was recently. My point was. David, this is manic behavior. It was so fun to do it, but I regretted it really quickly. And so I just wanted to bring it up. Don't, anyone's listening that's thinking about egging someone, a friend, don't. Because I don't like it.

And also, weren't you worried that was going to hurt her head? It also was like a, I had to hit hard. You think eggs are going to break so easily but they don't no they don't you're evil that's bad don't do that is she in your phone when you're dying on the airplane and she's got a text and does it have did you update it now i'm done sorry about the egg yeah add that in that's bad you should know right now if anyone the lawyers will get involved in this room does that to me i'll take it much worse than roosevelt but you get an idea of how satisfying that is just for a moment when you crack an egg on someone it's so funny you have

impulse control maybe you do have adhd something's happening it was really fun i haven't done it since and i'm advising not to. You're one year sober. I'm one year sober. All right. So you're eggs. We learned a lot. The lesson from this episode, do what you want to do with your eggs,

but you don't have to technically put them. What do you do in America? Because they've been refrigerated already. Yeah, but if you go to another country. Another country, just get your eggs wherever you want. Or if you have chickens and they lay eggs, you don't have to put them in the refrigerator. No, you don't. I mean, look, in a sane world, I think Americans, they should never be popped in the fridge straight from egg.

Put them wherever you want. But that's just my hot take. Wow. But don't sue us. If you do that, then you get salmonella. Take no responsibility. If you're taking advice from me that, then you get salmonella. Take no responsibility. If you're taking advice from me, you deserve to get salmonella. All right.

All right. Bye. Bye.