Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Flightless Bird: Gladesmen

Episode Date: April 18, 2023

In this week’s Flightless Bird, David Farrier sets out to Florida’s south, deep into the Everglades, in search of the men who live in the glades: Gladesmen. Descending by airboat into the wet marshlands, David discovers he’s on a giant river 100 miles long and 60 miles wide. Surrounded by alligators, bugs, birds and fish, his guide Steve - a third-generation gladesman - takes David to a “camp” - the place where gladesmen live. While there David discovers the legend of the skunk ape, Florida’s swampy version of sasquatch. From there he tries to find the truth about the skunk ape, talking to prominent skunk ape expert Dave Shealy. Is this monster legend, or is there a chance the 7-foot tall creature is the original gladesmen? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. The last big thing I learned in therapy was that I do that negative self-talk thing where you just walk around being like, rubbish, no good, idiot. And until it was pointed out to me by a therapist, I just had no idea. Really? You just thought that was normal? Oh, yeah. Just this horrible little voice in the head. Once you clock it, you can start to do something about it.

Yes. you can start to do something about it. Yes. And I think with therapy, having an outside person that actually knows what they're talking about to tell you these things, for me, at least, can be super, super helpful. It seems obvious, right? But you live in your own brain from the second you're born. And so whatever's happening just seems normal.

Yeah. And until you talk it out with someone and they can kind of go, oh, no, there's like a better way to think about things. And you push back against that. And they're professionals. Talking to your friends is wonderful. But but also sometimes your friends give bad advice. No, they do because they just kind of want to please you. Yes.

That's the thing. Do not trust friends. If you want your friends just to tell you what you want to hear, go to your friends. If you want reality, therapist is probably better. And they do it in a nice way. I love therapy. If you're thinking of starting therapy, you can give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online. It's designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to whatever your schedule might be. You just fill in a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch at any time if you don't like them. Discover your potential with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash bro today to get 10% off your first month.

That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash bird. I'm David Farrier, a New Zealander accidentally marooned in America, and I want to figure out what makes this country tick. Now, something I love about this place is how many different landscapes you can find here. Sure, New Zealand is pretty great, but something about the vastness of America really gets me going. Whether it's the depths of the Grand Canyon, the lofty heights of the Rocky Mountains, or the great plains of the, well, the Great Plains. America has a lot to offer when it comes to geography, but I found myself being drawn to another type of landscape, a very swampy, wet one. One of the great biological wonders of the world, the Everglades. herself being drawn to another type of landscape, a very swampy, wet one.

One of the great biological wonders of the world, the Everglades. Found at the bottom of Florida and booming with nature, the Everglades is essentially a great big river that's 100 miles long and 60 miles wide. The Native American tribes who originally lived there knew this, but it came as a great shock to those who attempted to completely drain the Everglades about 140 years ago. Ultimately, politicians and developers failed, but thousands of miles of canals and levees were built, transforming a big chunk of swamp into farmland.

About 50% of the Everglades is no more. Thankfully, during the 70s, people figured out they were probably doing a load of damage to a natural wonder, and the Everglades National Park was formed. Pretty much everything about the Everglades is interesting to me. I mean, it's the only place on the planet where crocodiles and alligators live together. But I was curious about something else. Someone else. I wanted to learn about gladesmen, the men who live in the glades of the Everglades. In New Zealand, we have bogans, a group who love listening to Metallica and Tool, drinking beer and talking about cars. I like them. And from what I could tell,

gladesmen are perhaps the bogans of America, but instead of cars, they have airboats. I wanted to meet a gladesman and go deep into the boggy, humid marshes, getting wet and wild outside the margins of mainstream America. So grow out that beard, grab a box of beers, and prepare to wrestle some gators, crocs, and large snakes. Because this is the Gladesmen were you as a people? Zero Great

I'd learned about them recently and got very excited. They're in the airboats. They're out there in the swampy marshes. I wanted to hang out with one. I'm really, really excited for this. And I'm really happy you went to Florida. It is so American. Yeah.

I really liked it. It was a lot of things, though, and obviously just so different to Los Angeles, for example. Very. Yeah. How much time have you spent there in your life? Growing up in Georgia, Florida is the place you go on vacation. Yeah, right. So my family and I would go every spring break to Orlando. Theme parks.

Theme parks. That was my family's thing. I think that's a pretty common immigrant thing. Mm-hmm. Theme parks. Theme parks. Was that Orlando? That was my family's thing. I think that's a pretty common immigrant thing. Yeah. Yeah. So we did that a ton. And then when I got older, college spring break and some high school spring breaks and stuff, Panama City Beach. So you get loose and wild.

That's right. Wet and wild. You're drinking, you're partying. Oh, yeah. Just kids, thousands. On the strip. All thriving. Yeah's right. Wet and wild. You're drinking, you're partying. Oh, yeah. Just kids, thousands. On the strip. All thriving. Yeah, wow.

Okay. And do you still feel an urge to go back there and party in Florida? Has that left you now? That's left me. That's left you. Okay. But you never sort of went in Miami to the Everglades? I've been to Miami.

My family went to Miami. But no, I didn't get into swamp territory. My most important Florida memory of all time. Oh, wow. My best friend Callie and I went to Ocala, Florida. Okay. Small elderly town. Right. Very old. Okay. We went there before college to go on a work trip. we set up quote meetings right with people in the quote film industry okay to learn about the industry and wow you know it was burgeoning yeah absolutely absolutely in ocala and why why okay so weird why oc Ocala? Why there? Callie's grandpa or great-grandma or grandpa or something knew somebody who worked in the film commission of Florida,

like something like that. This was going to be your in. That's right. This was going to be your in. That was the key to our success. And how did the meetings pan out? One was with this guy who shot with a camera. Yeah, yeah.

Alligators or something. Very Floridian. So that one was cool and unhelpful because that was not our. You didn't want to get into the alligator documentary game. It wasn't our niche. It wasn't your niche. And then. You got to start somewhere though.

You do. Yeah. wasn't our niche it wasn't your niche and then you got to start somewhere though you do yeah famously that meeting we took the big meeting all leading up to this woman told me that i could and should play black what no one knows what you are like you could play anything you could play black and like you should what an incredible piece of advice to you that's right and did you read you just sort of take that on board wow that's like it's an incredible bit of advice and takeaway from florida yeah one thing i did notice i spent about two weeks there it's super white everyone is so hospitable and lovely yeah but definitely elements of race would creep in in different ways and just

occasionally you sort of go oh what are you saying out of nowhere people like to offer their opinions on immigrants foreigners you know and the funny thing is i'm sitting there and they're talking to me i'm a friend i'm from new zealand but i'm okay you're okay they'll give you a pass not it's so strange to be around those kind of conversations and i find it really awkward because there's that thing where how offensive someone needs to get before you push back what what is your line did you to any of these people or no yeah one person i sort of was a bit cheeky because i was like, you know, I'm not from here, right? Do you have beef with me?

And he kind of just, his brain sort of did a few little somersaults. It wasn't exactly. Because he was trying to explain, yeah, like why I was okay and why these other people weren't. And so I'll push back a bit cheekily. Yeah, that's good. But I'm bad at pushing back. Like I'm walking here today to the attic. This woman, quite a well-to-do.

She had a dog, quite a big dog. And it did this big shit on the grass. And she was not even going to think about picking it up. No. And I was filled with sort of a rage. It was so disgusting. And she just looked quite annoying. You know when you think of like.

Entitled. LA, just the classic la yeah that whatever that is and i can't talk because we're all here so maybe we're all that but she was particularly grating the dog did the big shit but so i was filled with rage i couldn't bring myself to say anything it takes so much for me to be able to say to someone like that's disgusting yeah you're disgusting you shouldn't own a dog. If you're not going to pick up. I just wanted to say, you're disgusting. Yeah. That's what I wanted to say.

Wow. I think a lot of people can relate to that. Not a lot. Everyone can relate to this. How far do people have to take it before you make yourself uncomfortable? Yeah, completely. And change a situation which is very neutral with you to suddenly you being the one that's giving them shit yeah it's tricky i almost find it my responsibility yeah if we're talking about

like race or something because people will do that to me too are used to for sure like i got a pass because they liked me yeah yeah and i would take that i would just be like, oh, great. I got a pass. Woohoo. And now I'm so allergic to that, obviously. I take that on as gotta say. Yeah, and if you're not pushing back, it's like, who's going to push back? Who's going to do it? And eventually no one's pushing back. And they just continue through life being like, my opinions are fine. Yeah.

So, no, I'm making a sound like Florida. That was cropped up occasionally in Florida. Sure. That kind of attitude. It will. But generally, yeah. Generally, everyone was lovely and great. I'm a white man running around, so everyone's going to be like lovely and great

but yeah let's take a trip into the glades the glades i'd landed in miami the night before and to be honest i'm not really sure it was the place for me i couldn't wait to get out of the city and into some swamp so I've been driving northwest for about an hour and could already notice the landscape changing. Everything had gotten just so incredibly flat. Florida is so so flat and on either side of the road there was water. One side looked like a big bog and the other was just a river. I looked at google maps and saw I was driving down Alligator Alley, so I imagined there were alligators not too far away.

Eventually, I reached the spot where Steve had agreed to meet me. Steve comes from a family of gladesmen, and had agreed to show me around his home, the Everglades, on his airboat. Sign my life away? Yeah, it's basically just a safety waiver. I tell you, just be seated. If you get up and jump out, that protects me. That's fair enough.

What kind of podcast do you do? As I tell Steve about the podcast, I note that he looks magnificent. He's very tanned and has this long, stiff white beard that reminds me of ZZ Top. He looks well preserved. Coming up on six decades on the water, fishing and giving the odd tour, he's thinking about retiring soon. Life's too short, you know. The older I get, I realize that, you know, fuck, you need to enjoy yourself.

Wave assigned, we head away from the car park, down towards the water. I think he can sense I'm worried about the wildlife. I meet an alligator just 8 and 85 year old woman not too far away from here. Yeah, I've been seeing a really big alligator the past week. Oh yeah? Hopefully, I seen him this morning, maybe he'll be there when we get out there. He's impressive to see, he's one of the bigger alligators I've ever seen out here. And I've been out here for about 45 years.

We approach a small wooden jetty that juts out into an inlet of water, surrounded by marshlands. Steve's airboat sits there proudly. It looks almost like a big toy, a giant fan about a meter and a half wide sitting on the back. I clamber up onto the boat, accidentally sitting in the driver's seat. This side. This side. Other side of you? Unless you want to drive. I'll let you drive.

You sure? Steve gets up next to me and takes the controls, which is basically just a big handle. It reminds me of an outboard motor you'd get when you're out fishing in New Zealand. They're flat on the bottom, so you're going to experience the boat sliding sideways. They're built and made to run over dry ground, So we're going to be going over some grass. It's nothing that's extreme, nothing to worry about. This is what the boats are made for. When did you learn to drive one of these things?

About when I was about five years old. My dad had me on these things. He had me in his lap right there. And as soon as I could reach the throttle, he'd let me go. As long as I stayed out in front of the camp, I was good. So I got about 48 years. Steve is a Gladesman. A proud Gladesman. Now I never really try and over-research things on this show, because I kind of want to learn in real time. But I had picked up a book about Gladesman before this trip, simply titled Gladesman. In the Ford, it said this, region unfettered by law or civilized restraint. Free to experience, to enjoy, or to exploit the

full range of the glade's habitat, they lived well beyond the margins of mainstream America. That's the America I wanted to learn about today, or at least what's left of it. Hell, I was seven, eight years old. I was off on my own, you know. Same with like the fishing. I had a boat before I had a driver's license. So my dad would take me to the boat ramp and just turn me loose. He's been loose ever since and as Steve cranks the throttle or whatever you call it on an airboat, his beard gets blasted back in the wind, revealing a giant toothy grin. Steve loves it out here. Oh yeah, they're a blast. The shallower the water, the more fun they are. They'll slide faster. They'll actually run about 20, 30 miles an hour above speed when it's shallow.

Really, really fun. I agree that this is fun, but in parts of the Everglades, it can be dangerous. Panthers, crocs, snakes, the list goes on. You never know what you're going to see, so you always want to be keeping your eyes open. Sometimes you'll see a water moccasin, also known as a cottonmouth, which is the most venomous snake we have out here. With this in mind, he offers some sound advice. Best thing to do is just don't think about them. I don't look for them, I don't think about them, I just walk through it.

One thing about gladesmen, they know the environment out here. They know the wildlife and they love it. As we zoom past he points to a big white bird with an orange beak. You're gonna see a lot of these white birds like this one here with the curled beak. Those are called the Florida ibis. See hundreds of them out here this time of year. And you see this white bird right here? This is snowy egret you can tell by the yellow feet back in the 30s when the ladies had all the decorated hats with all the feathers they about killed that bird to extinction that was on the endangered list for many years but it's made a full comeback but they killed that bird for like five fucking feathers he's right the snowy egret. That makes this weird noise.

Was once almost hunted to extinction, millions killed, because humans decided their feathers were better on a hat than on a bird. We descend deeper into the Everglades. By now, apart from some kind of power piling miles away in the distance, there's barely any sign we're anywhere near civilization. It's just water and tall grass

as far as I can see. This is what we call the marsh. There's like three different looks to the Florida Everglades. The farther north you go, you have deep sloughs and all. Right in here, you have a lot of this sawgrass is what we all came through. The farther south you get, the limestone comes up and it'll be a lot more rocky. On these boats, we don't have steel on the bottom, but my personal boats, I have stainless steel on the bottom so you can run over the terrain more. But that's where you'll see your big hammocks and your cypress strands and stuff. In New Zealand, a hammock is something you lie on while you're on holiday. Here in the Everglades,

it's a big bunch of trees. And what's the weirdest thing you've seen out here in the Everglades? Well, I seen one of these alligators do a complete backflip. I was coming around the corner and it wasn't like the airboat scared him or anything.

I just happened to look over and I had a group of people and when I looked over, he was in the trail and he just did a complete backflip. I've been out look over and I had a group of people and when I looked over he was in the trail and he just did a complete backflip. I've been out here all my whole life. I've seen stuff that I think's normal and everybody tells me I'm crazy. I don't know what crazy is I guess. We come to a stop and he points to a blue bird pecking around in the long grass. It's a bit smaller than a chicken with beautiful blue feathers.

in the long grass. It's a bit smaller than a chicken with beautiful blue feathers. See this bird behind us? It's called a purple galanoa. I named her Billie Jean. You mean you trained it? Hi, Billie. Gets on the boat. I've had this bird riding on my shoulder. Now, you know how loud these things are, right? You just came down on it. Can you imagine having a wild bird like that on your shoulder about six or eight different birds and wildlife that just seeing me over and over they fly right to the boat they come see me it's like part of my pets out here come on Steve keeps calling Billy Jean's name and sure enough Billy Jean wanders over to him. These birds are called a purple galinal, and they can live up to 22 years.

They're not really good flyers. They can fly like the distance across this pond, but you only find them around these lily pads. And the male and the female are identical. And once they breed, they'll stay together for life. I like Billy Jean. A bad flyer, he's appropriate for this podcast. He's being a little shy. Come on Billy. Come on. Here he comes. And just like that, Billy Jean hops up onto our boat. He's been getting a little aggressive. He's starting to bite me a little bit, but

ow. He's gotten mean. It turns out we've stopped in the middle of a sort of large open pool apparently it's the deepest part of this particular part of the everglades i can see some fish darting around under us this whole place is teeming with life steve says they're oscars and mayan sicklings which he's developed a unique way to catch you just stick your thumb in the water and wiggle it around, they'll come up and bite your thumb. It's true. Yeah.

You gave it up? Yeah, because they have poison on their pectoral fins, the bottom fins. We have over 350-something different species of freshwater fish. Mostly all these that you're seeing here are like Mayan sicklings and tilapia and oscars. Then, as we're looking in the water at the cute but slightly poisonous fish, there's a big bubble of water about 10 meters away, and this big head pops above the surface. It's the giant gator he mentioned at the start of our trip.

That alligator is every bit, he's over 12 foot. He's probably pushing 13, maybe a little bit bigger. And I've only seen a handful that's been over 12 foot. He's probably pushing 13, maybe a little bit bigger. And I've only seen a handful that's been over 13 foot. He's here. That's a sight to see for someone that's wanting to see a big alligator. Well, there he is. They don't get much bigger than that. They can, but you don't see it. 13 foot is pretty big.

Looking at this big boy and thinking of that poor old lady who got eaten, I remember hearing that the Everglades is a popular place for dumping bodies. I wonder how true that is. Have you ever come across a body out here? Not in this section. I've seen them down farther south. I live about two hours south of here, and yeah, I have seen them out there before. We did a lot of canal fishing in the canals and levee systems. You could tell it was a dead person, but I never like to get up on, if I see them, I just call the police and let them handle it.

But usually when they find someone that's so decomposed, they can't really do any investigations. We press on, moving away from the big pool and back into the sawgrass, passing some other birds he knows. I think that's a bird I call Ernie. He points out some wisdom from those who were here way back before Glazeman came along, the Native American Seminole tribe. These trees right here, these are called willow trees. They have the same ingredients as Tylenol and aspirin.

They just break a stick off and carve it and chew on the stick. It's known to get rid of headaches and back pains. Suddenly, we emerge from all the swampy sawgrass into what looks to me like a big river. But the whole of the Everglades is a big river, I suppose. We're basically on a little freeway compared to the little bits of shallow water we've been skirting over so far. This is a canal. It's called the Miami Canal, Miami River. Back in the early 40s, they were trying to farm all the Everglades sugarcane.

And they put the highway in, Highway 75 and you got Highway 41. Well, they didn't know that the Everglades was actually a moving river. It's actually the slowest moving river in the world. And this is what you see here, these canal systems. Back in the day they were essentially trying to drain this whole thing, right? Right, that's what it was. Drain the swamp. Just like Trump.

Steve says a lot of things have changed over the years, especially over the last decade, as more and more people flood to Florida. The warm weather an attractive option, alligators or not. Slowly, life out here has become less livable for people like him. Over the years, they basically want us out of the airglades. You know, where I grew up, they closed it all down. You're not allowed to run airboats or nothing. That's where I came. And why is that? Is that wildlife groups or councils? Yeah, it comes in pretty much political. So they want to be able to know where everybody's at.

In the old days, we had all this swamp. You know, there's, like I said, close to a little over 4 million acres. They don't want someone getting away. They want to be able to control everyone. And that's what's going on with this country. Who sort of polices these waters? Because obviously on the ocean,

you've got certain ocean police looking at that sort of stuff. What's out here? It's the FWC, Florida Wildlife Commission. They're the ones who protect and control it. They monitor it. They ride around, you know. And if you're fishing and don't have a fishing license, they're the ones that write you tickets and all that. They're not really my biggest fans.

Looking around, I notice I haven't seen another human in ages. I really do feel really alone out here. It's just me and Steve. Back in the late 1800s, that aloneness was attractive to bootleggers who'd smuggle and hide whiskey out here after it had been made illegal. One outlaw, John Ashley, was nicknamed King of the Everglades, his gang robbing banks and then hiding out here. He's also known as the Swamp Bandit, which is a pretty cool name.

For me, the isolation out here feels nice, but also weirdly disconcerting for someone who's lived in a city for most of his life. I hope Steve has plenty of gas in the tank. I've been stuck out here with my parents and my dad, and we had swamp buggies, you know, track buggies like the army trucks. I would say it's like a culture. I grew up doing it, so when you broke down and you got stuck, it was just normal, you know, it happens.

Try not to do it the next time. And what makes the culture out here? Is it the idea of, like, coming out here and fishing? Is it nature? Is it family and camaraderie? Like, what is it? Family and camaraderie, basically. My grandpas and everyone else's, if they were in the Everglades growing up, their kids were the same way. And it's just, we call it gladesmen, the common word we use for someone who's been in the swamp their whole lives.

In my gladesmen book, I found some other fun words for gladesmen. Swamp rats, glades hunters, and my favorite, crackers. I don't bring these nicknames up with Steve. Where I grew up, we were 28 miles out into the swamp. And we were out of the flight patterns. There's no towers. Everybody always said, how do you not get lost? Well, I mean, if you look over there, you can see the towers, you know, and you look over here, you know, there's points, you know, but I learned the hard way, you know and you look over here you know there's points you know but i learned the hard way you know where i grew up there was nothing you know if you didn't know that trail you're lost you run out of gas you're fucked you know and that's happened many times you know you'll

be out riding around at night and you'll get that thick fog so there's been many nights where i couldn't see 10 foot in front of the boat and and the only thing you can do is just shut the boat off and sleep. Because if you keep riding around, you're just going to get deeper and deeper into the swamp where you don't know you're at. Yeah, no landmarks going on out there. Not at all. Not where I grew up. I slept many nights on the front of the boat waiting for the sun to come up.

The air is thick and relaxing out here. It's quiet. Life's worries seem further away than usual. I get the appeal. That's what I call God's paradise. This is God's country to me. This is where I get away and get my mind right to relax, get away from society. As Steve throttles up again, it's weird having a sort of intimate conversation over a very loud motor and I find myself yelling They took all the land away from us They cut it off, we can't go there anymore

and I have all my memories of growing up is out there and now that they don't let us in there Do you think your upbringing is going to slowly stop being a thing? It already has. My friends' friends who have kids, they're just seeing the tail end of it. It's like we're the last of the dying breed.

Another 20 years from now, I don't think there will be anybody out here. Sad. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Flightless Bird is brought to you by Helix Sleep. When I moved to America and I had to fill up an apartment with things, it was such a big mission. So when I got my little Helix mattress, I was very happy because I could sleep properly. Sleep makes such a big mission. So when I got my little Helix mattress, I was very happy because I could sleep properly. Sleep makes such a big difference. I, for one, did not get enough

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to try out your new Helix mattress. Helix is offering up to 20% off all mattress orders and two free pillows for our listeners. Go to helixsleep.com slash bird. This is their best offer yet, and it won't last long. With Helix, better sleep starts now. I really liked it out there, Monica. I was alone with my thoughts, and Steve, and all those birds,

but it was really nice. I haven't been anywhere that there's been no one around in ages. What a character. He was great great his beard was so long and white and when we were blasting through because you were kind of fast on those airboats it was just blasted back behind him it was so funny i mean i feel like there could be a whole podcast just on him yeah i mean he's a man who's lived his entire life on the water we all live on land yeah and we have a great time yeah He took the opposite approach. He's just like living on the water.

My goodness. Do you think you could do it out there? I could sort of see you in a swamp. How dare you? You've got little sort of gumboots on today. I do. I do. But I don't like water.

I can't really swim. Yeah, it would be a problem. That would be problematic. I don't like animals animals especially the deathly ones there are so many animals out there what did you feel when you saw the alligator i felt a bit scared they're such an intense creature i asked him if i swam out around would i be okay and he says chances are it would be scared of me no he swam around in there but he wouldn't let me go in probably because he doesn't want to get sued or anything but then i had signed the waiver so but i also had this other thought

when you're alone with someone in the middle of nowhere you always think like what if someone of you snaps and like kills the other or something you know and as he said you can throw a body in there great body disposal it just disappears that environment is scary that's fraught for snapping yeah and murders all those things and body drops but yeah i i like the vibe out there it was nature everywhere serenity things chirping and crickets cricketing and i thought about snapping i thought about something when he said, like, Trump. You know, he said Drain the Swamp, and he said, like, Trump. Then I thought, oh, maybe some people in Florida are just confused when they heard Drain the Swamp. And they thought he was just calling out their culture.

Yeah, maybe. Yeah, they thought it was just a little fun reference for them. Shout out. And that's why they like him. Well, I hadn't made the association that that's what draining the swamp was referring to. I didn't know until this trip that they had tried to drain the Everglades. Just get rid of it. They just wanted it to be land.

And then they're like, oh, shit, this is actually a giant ecosystem that we can't beat. Plus, we're killing all the wildlife, so let's not drain the swamp. Very expensive to drain a giant moving river. Let's get back into the glades. We're going on a bit more of an adventure, and I go on a bit of a deviation towards the end of this trip. Wait, hold on. Is that the alligator who had the seizure?

No, that was a lion that I met later in my trip. Yeah, I met a seizing lion in Florida. That's in the exotic pets episode. That's an Easter egg. Such a funny lion. He's so fucked up. I tell people you can get as fucked up as you want. You can yell as loud as you want.

You can do whatever you want. The only thing you're going to hurt is yourself. It's like you've got freedom out here. I don't know if I should say this, but the government's slowly taking away that freedom. One thing that's become very clear to me out here is that Steve loves the Everglades. I think of Billie Jean and Ernie, those cute little birds he likes, and the egrets and fish and alligators he's proudly pointed out to me all day. He cares about the environment out here because it's where he's lived his whole life. I think he enjoys sharing that message with me. But I still don't quite

fully understand what life used to be like out here for gladesmen. I don't understand where they lived and how they hunted. So Steve's agreed to show me. Taking a left turn here and a right turn there and another left and another right. To me it all looks the same, just vast areas of grass and water and occasional bits of land poking up. But he knows it like the back of his hand and he knows where we're going. We were driving reasonably quickly then. Is there anything like you're keeping an eye out for underwater?

Like we're not going to hit anything? No. Well, you see those mud clumps that stick up? You don't want to hit one of those sideways. You could actually flip the boat. But here it's mostly mud down where i grew up is a lot more dangerous because you got big rocks i've had several of my buddies die from these things you know flipping them and crashing them and stuff like that yeah we've raced these things you know we build race boats they got one seat in them but we got them doing over 115 mile an hour.

Jesus, they can get that fast. Yeah, one little fart, it'll kill you, you know, just a little breath of wind. I'm not sure if he's doing it on purpose, but as we've been talking about speed, Steve's been speeding up. The sound of the airboat at times is louder than any metal concert I've been to, and he's doing some cheeky turns that are actually pretty fun. Have you ever flipped one of these things racing? Yeah, I have. I've stood them up on their rudders where they hit the back rudders. I've crashed, I've been thrown out, I've been run over.

I've had it. How are you alive? I don't know. I'm feeling it though. My body's starting to feel the older I get. I got run over a couple of different times, more than once. How the fuck do you get run over? We were chasing this pig, and I was trying to catch him, and I went to grab him,

and I went over the front, and my buddy just ran me completely over. Then when I was young, me and my dad and my brother, we were chasing a deer. We hit some rocks sideways, and it flipped over and they had to airlift my dad out when you put alcohol and airboats together that's another disaster waiting to happen but it's one hell of a time though i can tell you that with his cheeky grin steve is driving me towards a camp out here in the everglades a house on the water where gladesman used to live still live this was over 100 years ago. If you could buy land.

There's only three camps out here in this section of the Everglades. They grandfathered them in. Unique thing to own. I wish my folks would have bought our land. Because it was dirt cheap back then, you know. But they grandfathered the camp owners in. But you can't resell it it it's got to be handed down one of those type things yeah i'm gonna take you down here and show you what a camp is he powers

the airboat up to full speed and we're completely fanging it eventually out of nowhere i see three houses out on the water they're built up on piles that go into the swamp and they're back onto some land that's jutting up out of the water. I'm looking at a series of small houses on the water. Yeah, these are what we call hunting camps. You notice the drums on top of the roofs? You know what those are? I have no idea. That's how we get our hot water shower. That's a redneck hunting camp right there. Each of the houses in front of me has a blue barrel on the roof,

the water inside hot from the sun. I'm curious if anyone's home, but it looks empty. There's another one that's out farther back, but they come out on the weekends and the holidays and stuff for their families. Okay, so you say hunting. What are you hunting out here? They do a lot of duck hunting in this section and they do a lot of frogging. You ever had frog legs? I actually haven't, no. Yeah, we have a pit frog, but they're very, very good eating. It's just getting over the frog part, you know, kind of hard for some people, but they're actually really, really good. How many of these little private dwellings would exist, would you say? There used to be hundreds and hundreds of them back when I was growing up, but if you didn't own the land, the park service burned them all down. So there's about 100,000 acres in this section right here,

and there's only three of them, you know, left. Back when he was a teenager, when the bootlegging days were over and alcohol was legal, he'd spend a lot of time at places like this. You know, growing up, they had a bunch of these camps. You'd drink a beer at one camp, you'd run your airboat to the next you know it's a big community basically out here in the middle of the swamp. This is how I grew up hunting camp so as a little kid in diapers I was running through the swamp playing around but this is my backyard. We slowly do a little drive by of the houses around the back where the land juts out of the water, there's some old plastic chairs out and a table. A little jetty has seen better days falling out into the water. Repairs

are hard. Everything out here needs to be brought by airboat. You can tell some good times have probably been had out here. We've been here for a while now, and it's time to head back. While it's nice out here during the day, I'm not sure I want to be out here at night. Everything comes to life at nighttime. Real noisy. Yeah, you'll hear frogs and alligators bellowing. These alligators, especially just right now, like I was telling you they're coming into the mating season. The males will make this loud bellow and it's almost like a deep, deep growl. And you'll hear that going off everywhere. And then you've got the frogs.

So you've got the frogs, the alligators, I mean, it just comes alive at night. It's pretty wild. I tell Steve that all this is so wild to me, particularly because back in New Zealand, we don't really have any of these creatures in the wild that can kill you. Nothing particularly deadly. That's incredible.

No venomous snakes or anything, huh? You could run naked through the forest for years and never get bitten or attacked by a single creature. I don't know what to do over there. You damn sure will over here. And you damn sure wouldn't want to be naked. Come next month

these mosquitoes will fly you the fuck out of here. They're so bad you can't even breathe without sucking them in. Eventually we get back to the inlet where we'd come in. I've loved it out here in the Everglades, but I'm excited to be back on solid ground again. As I get off the airboat, Steve tells me about another creature that's meant to live out here.

It's not an alligator or a croc or a python. It's something else entirely. Yeah, a sasquatch. I haven't never seen one, but I have elders that swear that they've seen them before. Locals say a big ape lives out here, a big one that stinks like a skunk. With that in mind, they call it the skunk ape. But I've heard stories from old timers and all, and, you know, I know them so well. Why would they lie? Or did they see something?

And were they drinking too much? You know, I don't know, but me personally, I don't look for them. They claim they're to be about seven to eight foot tall, and they have a very distinct bad odor. Hence the skunk. Skunk, skunk ape. Yes, sir. Well, I'll keep my eyes out just in case. I thank Steve for his time, wondering if he'll be the first and last gladesman I'll meet. But as I drive away, I can't get that skunk ape out of my mind. Technically,

the creature is known as a cryptid, an animal not yet known to science officially. But there have been hundreds of sightings of the skunk ape in the Everglades over the last few centuries. Native Americans have their own stories about the creature. With this in mind, I pull into Joanie's Blue Crab Cafe, which promises good food and cold beer. But I don't want good food or cold beer. I want to know what locals think about this creature, if they take it seriously or not. I'm greeted by Debbie at the counter. I warm her up by asking what she likes about the Everglades. Probably the scenery. I like the cypress swamp.

This here is the mangroves, but I like the cypress. Have you seen the cypress? Taylor, what do you like most? The different types of scenery. The Everglades especially, being their two ecosystems in the Everglades, and the Everglades does not get the appreciation that it deserves. Next, feigning total ignorance and trying to sound cool about it, I ask about the skunk ape.

I'm worried I'll get laughed out of town, but I shouldn't have been. You don't know about the skunk ape? We literally have skunk apes here. Hairy monsters looking, Yeah. They have been filmed. They have found the actual footprints and everything. So it's a real thing? Yes, it is real thing. Holy shit. So it's called out in the woods alone at night. It's like Florida's Bigfoot. Yeah, it is Florida's Bigfoot. Have you ever seen it? I have not seen it, but I do know people that have. And they have actual castings of the footprints.

Yeah. It doesn't worry you at all living around something like that? Of course it does. That's why I don't go out at night alone. But I'm more worried about the bears than the panthers. Debbie from the Blue Crab Cafe then drops a bombshell on me. There's a skunk ape research centre just down the road. Like, just down the road. A one minute drive away. I thank Debbie, get in my car, and speed off towards

Skunk Ape Central. So I've just pulled up at the Skunk Ape Research Centre and there's a giant skunk ape outside like a replica, which is good. Inside, everything's skunk ape. Books, t-shirts, mugs, pens, figurines. It feels more roadside attraction than research centre. But then I'm drawn to an amazing photo on the wall. A large hairy bipedal creature standing out in the middle of some swampland. I inquire about the photo with the guy at the main desk and he tells me he's just filling in for the day. He says the man who took the photo, Dave Sheely, runs this place. Sheely is the planet's foremost expert on the skunk ape, but my heart sinks when I learn he's away all week. Feeling defeated,

I buy a skunk ape mug and fridge magnet, get into my car, and drive away. And over the next few weeks, I attempt to make contact with Dave Shealy, the world's foremost expert on the Skunk Ape. And finally, after a series of emails, texts, and phone tag, success. Hello? Oh, hey, Dave. It's Dave Ferrier speaking from the podcast. How are you? I'm doing okay. You don't sound convinced. I'm in the middle of deep cleaning a washing machine. We're loading it in the back of my vehicle. That sounds like a lot. Would you like me to call you back in a little bit?

Yeah, call me back in five to ten minutes. Okay, so there was some more phone tag involved, but eventually we got there. I'm sorry to miss you when I came into your research center. Bad timing on my part. It's okay. I retired about two years ago, so I'm trying to slow down. I can't be at the shop all the time because I'm trying to enjoy life. But nevertheless, I get these customers that come in. I've worked my whole life to get them to come. I want to be there. So I'm kind of torn, you know?

Yeah, well, that's the thing, right? You are the person people want to talk to about this creature, right? And so you've kind of, your success has almost backed you into a corner. Yeah, yeah. It's going to be my demise. It's going to be my extinction. Dave Sheely recalls the first time he ever laid eyes on a skunk ape. I was born and raised in the Florida Everglades at the age of 10 I saw what others had described as being a skunk ape a Bigfoot type animal and ever since that day I've just been fascinated

with it so that particular morning I was only 10 years old. I was out hunting with my brother, Jack, and he actually saw it first and he identified it right away. He said, Dave, there's a skunk ape. And I was kind of small. He had to pick me up so I could see out over the grass about 100 yards away. It was walking and we were just both amazed. And we had a gun and everybody says, well, why didn't you shoot was walking. And we were just both amazed. And we had a gun. And everybody says, well, why didn't you shoot it? Well, we were kids. We were taught you don't

just shoot things to shoot it. And we just ran. Age 10, Dave was hooked. And he dedicated his entire life to setting eyes on the skunk ape again. And he did several times. First in 1997, when he got a series of photographs after spending six months out on the water. Then, three years after that, Dave hit the gold mine. He got the video. It was a screenshot from that video that I'd seen at his research center a few weeks back. In 2000, I happened to get a really nice video that people are seeing all over the world. It's featured on Smithsonian's website if you go there and look. It's featured on Smithsonian's website. If you go there and look, it's pretty interesting.

And that's what I do. I've just, my whole life has been researching these animals because very little is known about them. He's not bullshitting. The video is on the Smithsonian's website. I pulled it up on my phone. You see a large seven foot hairy creature in plain sight. And while it's easy to write it off as a man in a suit, it's at the end of the video that's sort of amazing because the creature starts running,

sprinting fast through the swamp. That's something a human in a suit would struggle to do. The video was taken in 2000, and I was in the area where I researched. And of course, my hopes are always up that I'm going to see something. But on that particular day, I really didn't expect it. I heard something in the distance splashing in the water. And if you ever see the video, you can't see the water because there's grass, but there's a lot of water. And I heard this crashing and I started looking and pretty soon I made out this skunk ape coming towards me and it goes down a tree line. And then at an incredible rate of speed, as fast as a deer, it runs across the prairie in front of me.

Was your heart beating quickly when you saw that or were you just locked on? I was locked on. I've been in a lot of really dangerous situations in my life. I've been bitten by rattlesnakes. I've been attacked by sharks twice. And so even though it was a really intense situation, I maintained my calm and as best I could held the camera as level as possible and zoomed in. And it came out pretty good. Yeah, that video you captured was incredible. And I feel like you managed to achieve something

that a lot of people doing what you do don't, which is get some really compelling footage. Yeah. And I'd like to say I was lucky, but it's more like I'm here on the ground every day of my life. And I wake up in the morning, I'm in the middle of the Everglades when I go to bed at night. So I just put in the time. And things happen if you do that. If you put the effort in, you'll get results.

Yeah, well, you put about a good solid 40 years into this, right? Yes, sir. Maybe longer. It's been a real adventure. I have over 200 tracks that I have cast and collected in the Everglades, a plaster cast. And they're very interesting. And based on the size of them and the different locations where I've cast them over the years, I believe we may have as many as seven to nine of these animals here in the Everglades. It seems crazy. But then I think of my short time in the Everglades and how vast it was.

And I was just in a tiny, tiny corner of it. Maybe there is a big ape out there. I mean, there are about a million alligators, and I'd only seen a few. Some think that skunk apes hide down in alligator holes, so they have plenty of those to choose from. Well, the most challenging part by far is the Everglades itself. It's the largest wild interconnected area east of the Mississippi here in the United States. It consists of over 3 million acres of protected wildlands, and it's filled with alligators and crocodiles and poisonous snakes. I'm dealing with sharks. I'm dealing with stingrays, just a variety of hazards. And over the years, I've run into all of them, if not once, numerous times. And I'm lucky, actually, to even be alive.

You can only tramps around in the swamp at night and get lucky so many times before your number's up. So that's been the most difficult. And you have to think, the Indians we have here in Florida are the only Indians in the United States of America that never signed a peace treaty with the government. They fought in the Everglades because it was a good hiding place. And that is where I live, in that exact same area where the Indians held out. It's very dense, difficult to traverse, and almost impossible to access on a full-scale basis. The fact is, apart from those who grew up around here, the Everglades has always managed to defeat people, to defeat newcomers.

It defeated the politicians and land developers who tried to drain the swamp. And before that, back in the 1800s, it defeated the U.S. military. The Florida War was waged in the Everglades for seven years from 1835 to 1842. The military was attempting to evict the Seminole tribe who lived there. One of the battles became the longest conflicts in the US ever, costing about $35 million. While about 4,000 Native Americans died or were displaced, many also held their ground because they knew how the swamp land worked. Around a thousand American soldiers were killed in the battle, partly because they were just

totally unprepared for fighting in the Everglades. It was wet, damp and dangerous. Sawgrass sliced them open and gangrene set in. A lot died from that. My point is, maybe there is a creature we don't know about living out there in the Everglades that knows it better than all of us. A creature sometimes spotted by gladesmen who've been lucky enough to see it. Would you call yourself a gladesman or gladesman adjacent? Yeah, yeah, I'm a gladesman. I have battled with the National Park Service for over 25 years. The part of the time that I wasn't hunting skunk apes, I was in meetings fighting for just my own existence and my right to live here.

So I guess if you were looking at gladesmen, I would probably be one of the number one gladesmen in the state right now. I thank Dave Shealy for his time and hang up the phone. For all I know, maybe he is the number one gladesman. Or maybe Steve is. Steve with his wonderful white beard and a pet bird called Billie Jean. Or maybe the skunk ape is the number one gladesman. The original. The OG. There before all of us.

Just way better at hiding. Monica, I became completely convinced that the skunk ape is a real thing while I was out there. I don't disagree. I'm going to show you this footage so this is on the smithsonian website as with any footage of any creature it's kind of fuzzy okay so you sort of see him he's in the middle yeah and it's when he takes off that it's it feels like not a person in a suit It feels like not a person in a suit.

Yeah. It's so hard to tell, especially. I mean, the quality is not great. Yeah, quality is not. Is he running yet? You see him moving? I do. That's like that swampy, muddy, nightmarish territory, and he's just moving at a real rate.

Yeah, most of the comments are people saying that you can't move like that in the swamp unless you're real big real strong yeah it's really compelling and i whoa and that it's july in florida that if it would be really hot too yeah so he's just being stinking hot in there and it's just the i guess what got me is it's the vastness and it's so big and there's so many places to hide yeah but we like know all the creatures maybe what do we in the rainforest we're still discovering stuff like mostly smaller stuff but like gorillas at one point were this mystery animal that were meant to be this fictitious creature and then eventually scientists found them that's true but science is very evolved at this point. I'd be very surprised.

I'm with you. See, I thought the same thing. And everyone I talked to, I thought it was a joke. Yeah. That everyone was like, oh, no, the skunk ape exists. To the point where I was talking to people that were running alligator parks and sort of, you know, people from the wildlife community. Yeah. And they're like, oh, you know, my friend saw the skunk ape.

It's definitely out there. Okay, see, but this is my point If a friend saw the skunk ape Then a scientist has to be able to find it I guess, well, that's the thing You'd hope so, right? I hear what you're saying Like, surely science would have really found DNA evidence

And they haven't yet But the locals, the gladesmen The gladesmen They all talk about it like it's absolutely definitively real, which I just find just really compelling and fun and mad. You would think one of them would have caught one, though. Or a body. Yeah.

Or a skeleton. Right. Or something. Because they're all, like, men's men. They are men's men. Like, they haunt. Steve was so mellow talking to him, but he was hardcore. Yeah.

Like he had fucking lived out there. Yes. And his dad's getting airlifted up to crashing. His hair's being like, being flung off for like his airboat while chasing pigs. It's crazy. Yes. They're so intense. What a life.

What a life. Yeah. It makes me feel so sort of useless hanging out with manly men like that. Boring. You know? Yeah. He's just like, you can do everything. I felt safe around him.

Oh, that is so interesting because I feel incredibly unsafe hearing that. I would not have felt safe. I would have felt this person attracts danger. Yeah. Because that's what he likes. Yeah. Lives for it. Lives for it. Yeah it yeah there is that

angle on it as well i felt like he was looking up to me that's sweet yeah steve i loved i love the everglades i love this guy cape i love this idea that there were these like bandits out there just living their own life and they all feel they all spoke you know dave sheely spoke of this and steve spoke of this of just being sort of slowly run out of town and in a way rightfully so i guess you know they're obviously trying to conserve certain aspects of the wildlife and so they don't want people running airboats everywhere yeah but then there's not many of them and he cared about the wildlife he wasn't out there killing all this beautiful birds and eating a few frogs but you, you know, he loved that place. I say let them roam.

I might join them. Oh, my God. You would not. You don't think I'd – how long do you think I'd survive out there in the glades? I think you'd be like, oh, this alligator likes me now, and then jump in and immediately get eaten. Yeah, that could be problematic. You're too trusting.

Yeah, I learned that with a squirrel. Did you learn it? Still haven't had my medical bills come in from those rabies. Every day I log in and I check and it still hasn't come through. It's free. You'll have to update us. Maybe that I'm hoping they lost the paperwork and so I don't have to pay for any of those rabies shots.

Unfortunately, no. It's just a slow system. Just fucking slow America. It's just slow. Yeah. Oh, man. Wow. Well, this was fun.

A fun adventure. Yeah. I think for your birthday present, I might see if I can get you an Airbnb out there in the Everglades. Wow. At one of those camps and you can have your redneck shower, short shower each day with your sun-heated water on the roof. Oh, wait.

Little balcony. When you brought up the cracker, that's a pejorative word for a white person. Yeah, cracker is like a whitey. Yeah, but it's like a bad word. It's right. So I wouldn't want to call anyone a... No. It's done with a bit of humor or that would be taken badly.

Well, look, the truth is white people are the majority and the hegemonic group so call them whatever you want there's there's nothing that's so bad so i'm a cracker say it um i technically i guess i mean i just opened my glazeman book and it said very specifically that's what people have called Glazeman at points. Yeah. So you're saying that's like a derogatory term? Yes. Okay.

Yeah. So I shouldn't go around America calling people crackers? Don't try to be cutesy and do that. Just don't. Okay. Okay. I don't think there's any Airbnbs in the Everglades. Hmm.

Oh, bummer. I guess you're going to have to get me something I actually want. No, they're actually... You've got to stay in the keys. Oh, bummer. I guess you're going to have to get me something I actually want. No, they're actually not. You've got to stay in the keys. Yeah, and all those, the camps that do exist out there for Glazeman, you can't buy them. They are literally now passed down generation to generation.

And I feel like they're slowly, the one we saw was pretty rough and sort of falling into the water. So I guess eventually they'll all kind of just be swallowed up by the swamps. I bet one of those guys would let Monica stay with them, though. You might. I don't know. Don't knock it until you've tried it. I won't. I'm never going to say never.

They could be my people. It was really beautiful out there. I'm from the South. I have a connection. Yeah, I think it's in you. What's that mean? I think there's an inner Glades woman. Yeah, Monica Badman.

Glades woman. Yeah, Monica Badman. Glades woman. To be honest, Steve rules. He was great, and I'm so glad he let me spend the afternoon with him just zooming around. He was amazing. That was really fun. I'm glad you did that. I'm at least 24% more American. I'll give it to you.

That was so American. It was. Right? Yes. That was American. It is. Good job. I'd like Dax to go out with him on one of those airbases and have like a race.

There'd be like a man off. Seems like trouble. Between the two of them. That's not a good idea. Okay, let's not. Let's not.