Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Flightless Bird: Laundromats

Episode Date: October 3, 2023

This week on Flightless Bird David Farrier investigates whether we have America to thank for the modern laundromat. After all, there are over 30,000 laundromats in the US - employing 39,000 people, making $5 billion in revenue each year. To help him in his investigation David meets with Brain Wallace of the Coin Laundry Association to discuss how on April 18th,1934 a Texan named CA Tannahill opened the world's first coin-operated laundromat. David then discovers how laundromats mean different things to different people in America. He then talks with Jason Sowell, who is very enthusiastic about the importance of the American laundromat and runs a non-profit called “Current Initiatives” which helps people do their washing. David also learns why Americans have a phobia of clotheslines. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm David Farrier, a New Zealander accidentally marooned in America, and I want to figure out what makes this country tick. Now a big part of being a human being is trying to stay clean, washing our bodies and the things we put on them, clothes. And as I've wandered around the United States, I've noticed that many Americans love washing their clothes at a laundromat. I raised this with Monica previously, putting forward my theory that laundromats are as American as apple pie. She violently disagreed. Laundromats. Laundromats.

No, no, no. Laundromats are not American. Today, I'm here in an attempt to prove Monica's thesis wrong. Laundromats are American. I propose that laundromats are as American as flying the American flag or eating a juicy cheeseburger. After all, there are over 30,000 laundromats in the US, employing 39,000 people, making $5 billion in revenue each year. So, grab your disgusting smelly clothes and a handful of quarters, because this is the Laundromance episode. Flightless, flightless, flightless bird touchdown in America.

I'm a flightless bird touchdown in America. David, David, David. I thought it was time for some controversy. Yeah. For butting heads. It's been too calm for too long. Well, you picked the right topic because I stand by my original thesis. Yeah, and I'm curious about this and I want to sort of investigate it together.

But first, I was curious how often you wash your clothes. Clothes. Because I think I wash mine more than some people do. Like I will almost wear something once, like a T-shirt once, and then I'll put it in the washing basket to be washed. If there's any danger of smell, then it's going in the wash. But some people wear T-shirts for days or maybe they wear it once, they fold it up, they put it away and then they wear it again.

It depends on the type of clothing item. Underwear versus a sweater, for instance. Oh my god. Everyone washes their underwear after one use. After one use. I've gone for I've done a day two. If there's no accidents. You take it off and then you put it back on later? Yeah. Or you're just. Not all the time.

Not all the time. Sometimes I'll do it. Are you just trying to be provocative right now? No, not all the time. Like some days you don't even go to the bathroom. On a day like that, I don't think you need to necessarily wash the underwear. Did you fart in it? Yeah, but that doesn't do anything.

Fart particles aren't poo particles. Yes, they are. Yeah, it's probably incorrect. Fart particles are exactly poo particles. That's literally what it is. Air from your poop. So gross. I just want to say, I don't do that often,

but just occasionally. Okay. I need you to never do that again okay okay i'm not proud of it i'm being honest i have another friend my god it's like i have to teach you guys so much about this life and this person only washes their hands sometimes. Oh, incredible. After they go to the bathroom. What's the deciding factor? Like how crazy it gets in there? What informs that decision? Right.

So it's confusing because I noticed it once I was with them and we were at a public place and I was like, hmm, they didn't wash their hands. place and I was like, hmm, they didn't wash their hands. Now, if you're not washing your hands in a public place, what that tells me is you are never washing your hands in private. Yeah, at home. Yeah, it's not happening. Did you hit them up that day? Yeah. Or you did?

Like 20 minutes later, I was like, so what was that about? And what they said, sometimes they don't do it. Yeah. That's no good. I disagree violently with that. Okay. But, and I did tell this person that 100% of the time in public, you must, and if you are pooping, you have to wash your hands. There's no exceptions.

100%. Yeah. You'll get pink eye. They'll get pink eye. Yeah, true. And all sorts of other horrible things can be. And give it. Yeah. You'll get pink eye. They'll get pink eye. Yeah, true. And all sorts of other horrible things can be. And give it. It's giving it away to other people that is unacceptable.

My friend rescues cats. Okay. And they recently got super tired and exhausted and they went to the doctor and they had caught what you can get from your cat litter tray. You can get a thing from cat poop that really wipes you out. Now, I've never met anyone that's had it before, but it really, and again, I imagine they were washing their hands, but you've got to wash your hands. It's like a flu type thing.

It just makes you incredibly weak. It's like a virus of some kind. Well, you know, they have that in Canada. I think I just learned about this from one of my Canadian friends, not Liz. It's called beaver fever or something. And when they're in lakes, they accidentally eat some of the beaver poop in the water. Oh, right. Okay.

And then they get really ill. Incredible. Horrible. That's the ding-ding-ding to beaver episodes. You forgot to mention beaver fever. I did forget to mention that. Beavers part two. We'll go there immediately. Anyway, sorry episodes You forgot to mention beaver I did forget to mention that Beavers part two We'll go there immediately

Anyway Sorry You are to always change your underwear Once a day Or If you haven't showered in two days And you've just been at home for the weekend Still change your underwear in the morning

Yeah I just want to say I usually do It's very rare Twice a year I might get a bit cheeky And think I can get another day's use Out of these, you know?

Yeah. Okay. But you just have more money than you think. Laundromats are a way to wash your clothes. Yes, they are. They are. Actually, just quickly, before we segue into laundromats, a few quick ideas for future episodes. Okay.

Milk. You were just getting milk in your tea. American milk fascinates me because there's so many different types. There's super scent. There's whole milk, coconut, almond, skim There's different types of like powdered milk you can put in Is that a good topic? Well, they don't have that in New Zealand Not the extent, not this 2% shit that you've got over here

They don't have 2%? No, I still don't know what it is No one's explained it to me What is 2%? It's less fat. Okay. Okay, so then yes, this is good, but you have to make it specifically about 2% in skim. Mm-hmm.

Okay. I can do that. I'm down for that. Americans love a dead animal more than a live animal. So they love putting their heads on the wall. Taxidermy. Taxidermy. And they also love, I touched on this a bit in the dating episode,

but I've been thinking about it more and more. Men love, I was in Denver over the weekend. Oh, yeah. And every diner we went into were just walls of photos of people, mainly men, with big fish. They love fishing. American men, they love posing with big fish. Okay.

Do they have fishing in New Zealand? They've got fishing, but we don't put the photos everywhere yeah but you still kill you even told us a story about your dad was a wild game hunter yeah no we definitely kill but i think in america it's much more like on a dating app in america if you're flicking through guys there'll be a lot of men with dead animals that doesn't happen in New Zealand. I think that's more of a photography. Yeah, I don't know about this, David.

This doesn't feel... Okay, I'm going to look into it. Disgust the photo. Okay, 50%. Planes crashing? What? I just read the New York Times put out a piece about all the near misses that are far more than we know about. In one month, there was more than one near miss

every day in America on airlines. And since people are traveling more post-COVID, the flights are increasing. No one can hear this episode. They'll freak out. It was a terrifying episode. Okay, we won't do that one. It'll scare people too much. Shoes inside. We've talked about this briefly. Oh, that I like. But the more I talk to people that aren't American, the more surprised they are that Americans keep their shoes on indoors. Oh, that I like. But the more I talk to people that aren't American, the more surprised they are that Americans keep their shoes on indoors. Yes. That's a great episode. Natalie will love that. She hates shoes indoors. And some people in America, obviously people get onto a bed with their shoes on. Yeah, I've done it. It's like you with the underwear, like maybe like

once every four years. Not every day. Yeah. Okay. This is fascinating. I want to look into this more. I suggested, and I think you, you said, okay, but then you decided not to listen. But so I'm going to say it here. Quilts.

Quilts. Yeah. That's so American. They don't have quilts in New Zealand. I'm putting it on my list. You didn't even know what it was. Quilts. So specific.

Yeah. It seems very pilgrim-y Yeah Okay Americans love quilts on the bed It can be on the bed for decor or their bodies It's passed down like grandmas will make their granddaughters a quilt Oh, that's cute

Sometimes you make it with fabrics You can have a t-shirt quilt with all your old t-shirts What? Yeah You make the quilts out of old T-shirts? You know how you accumulate so many fucking T-shirts? Oh, that's all I do. Yeah.

If you realize like, oh my God, I just have 4,000 T-shirts, but I don't want to throw them away because they're all meaningful. You could turn them into a T-shirt quilt. Okay, I'm on board with this now. Okay. T-shirts into quilts. America. Okay, thank you.

Okay, I'm going to play you my little documentary about laundromats in America, and we're going to discuss the hell out of it. Can I just get $20 worth of quarters? Yeah, of course. Cash or out of your account? Cash is good. Once every few weeks, I go to the bank, wait in line, and then request $20 worth of quarters.

I'd get more, but there's a quarter shortage apparently. Or maybe my bank just hates me. It's an annoying process that I've actually come to love. Trotting off to the bank to get my quarters. I hand over $20, and I'm handed back two rolls of quarters. Each roll contains 40 25-cent coins tightly wrapped in paper. As I drop them in my pocket I feel like a true American. Since being here I've learned that America loves quarters. They're in every crevice in every car

and tucked down behind the cushions in every American couch. From what I can tell they have two main uses, paying for parking meters and feeding them into coin operated washing machines at the laundromat. Feeding quarters into a giant washing machine every week puts me alongside 19.6 million American households that don't have a washer and dryer in their home. I wanted to find out why this is, why laundromats are so popular in America. So I went to the logical place to answer such questions, the Coin Laundry Association. My name is Brian Wallace and I serve as president and CEO for the Coin Laundry Association, which is a trade association

for laundromat professionals in North America. Brian Wallace loves laundromats. He's been in this game for over 30 years. It was my first gig out of college, looking for a job in communications and marketing. And I saw this ad for Coin Laundry Association. Is that such a thing? And that was 31 years ago. Brian knows this world inside out. So he'd be the one to confirm a story I'd read online. A story that's found on the website of a lot of laundromat businesses. A story that claims the first ever self-service laundromat in the world opened in Texas in 1934. Well, believe me, I'm very familiar with that. I think it's Fort Worth, Texas, part of the legend, so I've got no reason to dispute that. It was April 18th, 1934,

that a Texan named C.A. Tannehill opened the world's first coin-operated laundromat. Except it wasn't called a laundromat. It was a washeteria. There's multiple origin stories. That's the one that seems to be most popular. And some people will split a hair between self-service and coin-operated, right? So before there was a coin-operated mechanism and that innovation came along, there were automatic washers that could be purchased based on time. Oh, I want to buy an hour's worth of time with that washer and dryer. So that puts it at roughly an 80-year-old industry here. It's just something that has been primarily an American concept. An American concept that

gained traction during the 50s as cities got bigger. LA, Chicago, New York. More dirty bodies meant more dirty clothes. Apartments didn't always have room for a washer and dryer. Plus they're expensive. Enter the laundromat. As technology got better the size of the laundromat increased. And today around 16% of American households use a laundromat to As technology got better, the size of the laundromat increased. And today, around 16% of American households use a laundromat to clean their clothes. Americans flood to the laundromat in the truckloads, sometimes literally. I can't believe how much laundry people come with. I mean, minivans full, pickup trucks full, miles of laundry, hundreds of pounds of laundry. The laundromat has become a popular

location in music videos, TV shows, and Oscar-winning movies. I don't know what it is, whether it's crime procedurals or rom-coms or I don't know what to call everything everywhere all at once. I think the reason those settings come up is because it is a familiar place. It's a neighborhood place. Over the years, the industry has changed. Americans are innovating and finding new ways to keep the laundromat thriving. 30 years ago, it may have been more people that had it as a kind of a side gig

or a side hustle these days or a moonlighting opportunity where now people are getting into the business full time. They're adding a lot of technology. They're trying to scale to multiple locations. And what I like the most about that is it generally means that more and more customers are finding a much better place to do the wash than they did just a few years ago. In short, laundromats are getting fancier. There are nicer chairs to sit on, better ambience, TVs mounted on the wall, vending machines dishing out snacks.

Some have called it sort of the Starbucks effect. I think in the old days, it was more utilitarian, institutional, white walls, white floor, white ceiling, get in, get out. And I think the stores that I love to see today are the ones that have warmer finishes, that are more comfortable, softer lighting, seating areas. When you really think about it, there aren't too many other places where people are spending two hours a week outside of home or work. And so you have to make it an inviting experience. It's got to be something that's a little bit more engaging and more comfortable than, frankly, than a competitor that maybe is not doing that job quite as well. I find it sort of funny thinking about it,

this thriving business where you get paid in quarters, hundreds of quarters, tens of thousands of quarters, millions and millions of quarters. Sometimes customers see one of our members with a five-gallon bucket full of quarters rolling in a laundry cart, say, oh boy, boy, you're making all the money in the world. It's like, well, we've got to pay the rent out of this. We've got to pay the utilities out of this. We've got to pay our people out of this, insurance, accounting, et cetera. It's a mechanical

miracle in a lot of ways. You're building a plant, right? You're building a factory that's going to generate clean clothes. It strikes me that the American laundromat is a modern miracle, full of machines with names like Whirlpool and Maytag, Electrolux and Speedclean, Dexter Laundry and Laundrylux. Sometimes I go to the laundromat just to take it all in. The smell of fresh linen, the gentle heat of the dryers, the whirling and swirling, the best kind of ASMR. In a busy, scary world, the laundromat is a refuge. I love the laundromat, Monica. In my apartment, there's no room to even put a laundry.

Right, right. I've got no, so I just sort of go out into the world and like, I kind of love it because it's this ritual I go through. And I've got one in my building. I was going to ask. Okay. But sometimes for a little fun weekend trip, I'll go out to a different laundromat and just hang out and see what's going on. And you enjoy it. Yeah, I do because everyone is different.

They all have different setups and different vending machines and different video games. It's a whole sort of culture and you meet some real oddballs there as well. I kind of love it. So where do you wash your clothes? I have a washer and dryer in my unit. In your place. Yeah. But not, I mean, a lot of buildings don't. In cities, I could see it being more common. Yeah. But before you live in a city, no, like suburbia in rural America is not going to the laundromat. You'd always have it in your house. Yeah, it would 100% be in your house.

Do you admit, though, that the first coin-operated laundromat was invented in Texas? I just need to know about this guy's credentials a little bit more. He seemed very authoritative. He had a really nice office he's been doing this job for 31 years he does advocate for coin laundries so technically he could be quite biased exactly in that direction so he's probably gonna play into a story of an origin in america more than someone i guess i just feel like the only time I've ever used a laundromat ever has been out of this country.

Yeah, when you're traveling. When I'm traveling. Yeah, totally. Or like studying abroad or something. In which case, if I'm studying abroad, I live in a place. It just doesn't ever have laundry or laundry in the building. I think they're like two different worlds because we have laundromats in New Zealand as well. And I had a washer and dryer in my apartment,

so I wouldn't go and use a laundromat. So I think you're divided. It's like two worlds. You've got the world where you're washing your underwear at home. And then there's this other world going on, which is 16% of America, that doesn't have a washer. And they're just out in the world carrying around bundles of underwear. I know. And cleaning and drying it. It's just these two different things. And I think if you don't do one of those, if you're in one world, you sort of don't even notice the other worlds.

But I guess, but our fight is that. Oh, there's no fight. No, there's a big fight. Our fight is that who's doing. No. Laundromats are American. No. Yeah, they're American. No, there's a big fight. Our fight is that who's doing. No. Laundromats are American. No. Yeah, they're American.

No, they are not. They're American. They're everywhere in America. They're popular. They're getting bigger. No. They're getting bigger. They're getting bigger.

There's more technology being pumped into it. And I just think you'd see more laundromats. Okay, I'm going to keep playing the documentary. Wait, no. I'm going to see if I can win you over. Nope, I need him to do a little bit of research, which is how many laundromats in America? There's between 18,000 and 35,000 laundromat businesses in the US.

18,000. Do Europe. I've got 30,000 laundromats in my stats. See, I said 18 to 35, so that's. Okay, 18 to 35, okay. Okay, 18 to 35. Thousand laundromats. Thous000 laundromats in my stats. I said 18 to 35, so that's... Okay, 18 to 35. Okay. Okay, 18 to 35. Thousand.

Thousand laundromats in the whole country. First coin-operated one invented in Texas. 8,326 laundromats in Europe. What? Oh! Oh, no. Oh, this is... Really?

This is a beautiful moment. Rob! Why are you doing this? Oh, this is a beautiful moment. No, but it's okay because if you don't use laundromats, you don't notice them. That's what I find so fascinating about them. If you're not needing to use them, why would you ever think about them? And that's fine. But I think that's so interesting to me that these two different dimensions you can live in. And while I'm rolling down to the bank to get my quarters,

you're missing out on all these adventures, Monica. Like my weekly ritual going to the bank, putting my $20 note over and getting little coins back that I can feed into the coin-operated laundromat. That's so antiquated, though. Why don't they have Apple Pay? Oh, I know. Some laundromats do.

Okay. So the market size measured by revenue of laundromats in US was $6 billion in 2022. But in Europe, by 2028, it's supposed to reach $7.5 billion. Oh. Okay. So it's on the app. So it's comparable. It's comparable.

In market size. There's just fewer, but more people. Yeah. Okay. So that's. in market size. There's just fewer but more people. Yeah. Okay. So that's... That's noted. That's something. That's on the rise in Europe as well.

But America still blazingly leads the way. But this is the thing. I think you noticed it when you were in Europe because you just didn't have one at home because you needed it. Yeah. That's probably right. It's a good thing. America should be proud of it. I think it's this really neat feature that Americaica has i love being a part of that world

are they counting the ones in the buildings of apartments they probably are yeah they are coin operated they do right yeah okay but the number of 30 000 coin operator laundromats that's like outside of the apartments you're sure i'm not 100 sure but i'm at 80 confidence okay wow i mean i did use one in college the dorm you had to yeah it is funny that it keeps you on your toes because you've always got to have all the bits you've got to have your coins you've got to always have your sort of traipsing around with your laundry powder and all that in your big bag of washing and you have to i guess you have to be more on top of your lawn like for me i let that laundry pile up so much and just so you do one big dose yes i do

like a huge yeah laundry day but if if you're going to the laundromat you can't because you'd be there all day absolutely it has to be this really planned well thought through trip probably something that's angered me more than anything else has happened since i got to america is that i'd put my clothes through my little laundromat in my building and i'd forgotten to come back in the half hour that it takes to take them out and And I left them in for maybe an hour and a half. And when I got back, someone had taken my laundry out and put them in a big pile on top of the other machine. That's common.

And that made me feel so angry. And I washed them again. Because I didn't know whose hands had been all over my underwear. They washed their hands. Maybe it was your friend who hadn't washed whose hands had been all over my underwear. Yeah. They washed their hands. Maybe it was your friend who hadn't washed their hands in the bathroom. Exactly. And they're the ones taking it out.

Oh, my God. So that's one thing you do have to be on top of with the coin operated is being on time. I've had that happen in college. Man, I got so mad. In L.A., I find if you're living in an apartment, normally you have to choose whether or not you're going to get laundry in unit or a dishwasher. Oh, so it's one or the other. It's very rare, I have found.

It's very rare to find an apartment that has both. What would you rather have? Laundry in unit. I don't have a dishwasher. Yeah, no. See, you can survive without a dishwasher pretty easily. Yeah, but I am getting sick of washing all those dishes. Is it European to have a laundry machine in the kitchen, too?

I have a friend that has an apartment in LA with it in his kitchen. Mine's right off of the kitchen, but it's in its own little room. I don't know. Okay, well, I'm upset because I still think I'm... I still think like...

You've got conviction. I like that you have conviction. But I'm wrong. I have to listen to fads. This is a huge day. Wait, wait. In the UK, the majority of properties have their washing machine built into the kitchen partly because we don't commonly have electrical sockets in the bathrooms. So it's normal for them to put it there. But it would never be in the bathroom, right?

I guess in some places. Yeah, in my, in New Zealand, we'd often have them in the bathroom. I think it's American that you have like a laundry room. Yeah, we don't really get laundry rooms unless it's like a fancy house Yeah, they'll go in bathrooms or I'm trying to think of all the places I've flattered it in New Zealand Primary closet Closet's kind of cool because then you can just put it right in That's fancy

Yeah, that's actually more fancy Pop it in a bedroom, mix things up In planning my house for a while Oh yeah, where's it going? For a while there house for a while. Oh, yeah. Where's it going? For a while, there was going to be two. Oh, incredible. I've thought about it.

Like, let's throw one in the master bedroom. Yeah, one upstairs. One upstairs and one downstairs. But I'm not anymore. I decided not to do that. But, yeah. It's kind of handy, though. I get it.

You should. It reminds me of another American thing, the laundry chute. Right. That's old school. Is that old school America? of another American thing, the laundry chute. Right. We don't have those. Is that old school America? We don't really have those in New Zealand. That probably speaks a little bit to the laundry room, though. Yeah.

Totally. That it's not just throwing it into the kitchen on the floor. Yeah. I love this. Laundry chutes are cool, though. I wish they had kept that up. They stopped doing that, and I probably like- After Home Alone.

Yeah. They scared me, the idea of a ch shoot, because you could fall down in there. Or there could be a monster in there as well that pops out. That would be my worry. I'm sure there were deaths. There must have been, right? Kids would play in them and absolutely fall down. Yeah.

Oh. That's probably why they stopped them. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Flightless Bird is brought to you by Warby Parker. Now, I'm genuinely very excited to talk about this because I am a glasses wearer. You sure are. I need glasses.

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at warbyparker.com slash bird. Okay, more on laundromats. I'm really lucky in that I have a coin-operated washing machine in my building, downstairs in the basement. Two of them. But sometimes I like to get out and roam around with my quarters, trying out some of the laundromats in the neighborhood. Our laundry, I love too much. Our owner, the best man. Masida works the afternoon shift at one of my favorite laundromats in Hollywood. It's got some arcade machines inside and a bunch of TVs on the wall. She's from Armenia, originally coming to America to help her mom,

who is already here. I come to see my mom. She's very old, 94 years. She ended up staying and ended up teaching me the ropes of the American laundromat, from what wash cycles are used to the best washing products to get from the vending machines. Her laundromat's a fancy one. I can use my credit card here, doing away with quarters altogether. Ruby comes here most weeks to help her mum with the washing. Personally, not for me, but for my mum, because she's very social, very extroverted. She just comes here and she knows everybody from the neighbourhood. That neighbourhood aspect is the other magical thing I've discovered about the American laundromat.

The laundromat is a mirror held up to the neighbourhood. If you want to understand what's going on in that couple of blocks, go to the laundromat. You're going to learn a lot because obviously the people are there. It's a very localized business. And so I think community has always been part of that. And I think that there are fewer and fewer of those types of spaces around us. In the old days, the man on the street or woman on the street interviews and politics would be, oh, the corner diner or some kind of uniquely local place. And I see more and more of that happening at the laundromat. Brian of the Coyne Laundry Association says this cultural and community aspect of the laundromat is important to him and his organization.

So much so that seven years ago, they formed a charitable foundation called Laundry Cares. Among our mission is to really give back to the families that support our business. They realize that some people at the laundromat could do with extra resources, so they made that happen. You know, our often under-resourced families, especially here in the U.S., and so we do everything from free laundry days to my favorite project, which is we're building hundreds of mini library spaces in laundromats across the country and distributing free books. And so I think we have this unique reach into neighborhoods that can sometimes be hard to reach with other types of resources. And we see a laundromat as a conduit for pushing through some of that help directly

into the hands of the families that need it most. Of course, some Americans can't afford to do their washing at all. Enter Jason Sal, who's also very enthusiastic about the importance of the American laundromat and runs a non-profit called Current Initiatives. Our main initiative that we do across the United States is something we call the Laundry Project. So we work with laundromats in largely lower income areas and provide free laundry services for financially struggling families that are using laundromats across the U.S. We will take over a laundromat for a few hours, typically on a Saturday, have a team of volunteers come in. We're putting quarters in or swiping cards. We're providing all the laundry supplies that they need. I hadn't really thought about this before, but laundromats mean different things to different

people depending on where you live. Like a person using a laundromat in New York may have a very different life to someone using one in Florida. The users are different and how they're perceived is different depending on where they live. I've learned more about laundromats and the laundry industry over the past 15 years than I ever cared to know about laundry. So one thing I learned is that major cities like New York, Chicago, it's more common for the average middle-class person that's financially in a normal spot that would be using a laundromat because their buildings that they live in, their older buildings don't have those things to work with. So that's a little

more normal for the average everyday person. In places like Florida, where I live, or other areas that don't have massive metropolitan, older type places, it's a little bit different. What tends to happen in laundromats is the majority of people using those laundromats are people that are lower income, financially struggling, usually in areas of town that are deserts in some ways, food deserts, economic deserts. So the majority of people using laundromats are people that are already financially struggling. While I've been thinking about this, about status and laundromats, my mind's drifted to another thing I find fascinating about America, and that's the

country's pathological hatred of washing lines. See, in New Zealand, after we've washed our clothes in a washing machine, we tend to hang them outside on a washing line to dry. We've discovered a thing called the sun, which acts like a big heat lamp drying our clothes. Since I've lived in LA, possibly the sunniest place on earth, I don't think I've seen a single washing line. What's going on? Jason, who's run the laundry project going on 15 years now, has a few theories. First, Americans like things fast. Or less charitably, they're impatient. One is time. I'm assuming the lifestyle in New Zealand, much like other places in the world,

is a little bit slower paced than it is in the United States. You've lived here long enough, I think you know US is like, we're out the door and moving as fast as we can to everything that we're doing. So the automation of a dryer is one thing. The time of a dryer, then having to leave it out. Second, the weather can be unpredictable in the United States. I think there's probably something to the area of the country. In Florida, for example, like right now, this time of year,

if you did that, it's a crapshoot on whether your clothes are going to get rained on because it rains every day just about. I'm skeptical about this one because as I said, LA is always sunny and I've never seen anyone using a clothesline. Third, status. Some of it too in that becomes a status, just like anything else. The type of vehicle becomes status. Having a washer and dryer. I don't think anyone these days in America would think, I just need to buy a washer. Everything that's marketed to us over decades now is, it's a pair.

It all comes together. Brian from the Coin Laundry Association agrees that Americans love their dryers. Of course, he's biased. He would say that. He loves laundromats. But I do think him and Jason have a point. We like our hot dryers here and we pack them full of clothes and perhaps also part of that convenience factor. I've done a lot of consumer research over time here. Laundromat customers are looking for time savings and convenience in a clean, safe environment that's close to home. So I'm not making excuses for not line drying, but I kind of see it through that lens of

getting it done all at once. Getting that shore knocked out in one fell swoop. One foul swoop. Very foul. As a New Zealander, I'll constantly be annoyed that in LA people don't use clotheslines. The sun is the best dryer we have. While a modern tumble dryer has a maximum heat of around 150 degrees Fahrenheit, the sun burns at 10,000 degrees. That's way better, way hotter, way more efficient. like so much of america the way america dries its clothes will remain a mystery to me much like the mystery of how much lint always accumulates

in the dryer every single time no matter what you put in or the mystery of all the abandoned clothes left at america's laundromats another surprise about the business is the incredible volume of clothes that are abandoned at the laundromat. I'm talking about hundreds and hundreds of pounds, but it's always been puzzling as to what happens in that person's life where they just leave all their clothes never to be seen again. It felt good learning about the American laundromat, one of the backbones of America, a thing that keeps it clean and fresh. Laundromats mean different things to different Americans. Some may never set foot in one.

For others, they're a convenience. And for many millions, they're an absolute necessity. For me, well, I've run out of quarters, so it's back to the bank for me. Another truly American activity. What do you think, Monica? Oh my God. You were getting so angry over there. Yes, I am.

I was sort of loving it. Of course you are. I'm going to first start by saying I was wrong about the amount of laundromats in this country. I think a lot of people would be surprised at that though. Yeah, thank you. But also that number that Rob said about 7.5 billion is

interesting in that I think more people are going especially for how many people there are, percentage-wise. Okay, now I'm going to stop there. I like that apology. It's an apology with a P.S. Yep.

No, I was wrong. I had no idea that there were so many, and that is leading to another apology or acknowledgement, which is that is definitely due to my economic privilege, that I didn't know that. I'm the same in New Zealand. I have them in my building. And when I was in New Zealand, I never thought about laundromats. Yeah. When you've got them, you just don't think about them at all.

I'm in the same boat, but it's just come in a different country. I'm sort of clocking it. And for once, I don't have a washer and dryer. And so I've discovered this whole other world. In cities, it makes more sense to me and i can understand it but i assumed in other areas that they didn't exist at all and they obviously do because people who can't afford a washer and dryer do go to use them you have to use honestly i reckon once you see it you don't unsee it and you're driving through any american town you'll just be like oh laundromat laundromat it's like this other thing it's like when someone

mentions the thing you've never thought of you just see it everywhere all of a sudden yeah frequency yeah okay so now that we've said that and and i'm owning my privilege here i'm gonna push back majorly on the clothes on the First of all, number one, your clothes then smell like the outside. The whole purpose of washing your clothes is so that you get that outside smell off of your clothes. Do you know the outside smell? It's a very specific smell.

See, this is something that I haven't clocked in thinking about this at all, because in New Zealand, it's sort of like the outside smell is generally kind of fresh.'s what you think that's do you think the outside smell in america is different to new zealand or do you think it's the same well i don't know there's a good chance that they're different based on what's in the air like maybe la because it's definitely la's gotta be more like smoggy and crazy yeah what. What's the outside smell? You've never, okay, when you're outside and you're just like walking around a ton or you're.

I do, yeah, totally. Which you do. Or like imagine when you were a kid and you were outside playing, you're playing in your tunnel and you're like running around. Yeah. You go inside, you have a smell. It's from the outside. I call it the outside smell. It is.

It's real. Are you sure you're not talking about inside smell from your body getting sweaty? No, because if I'm running on the treadmill inside. You don't get it. That's a different smell. That's a sweaty smell. There's a smell, an outside smell. You do notice it a lot with kids because kids play so hard.

So, like, if they're out on the playground, like, if you pick up Calvinvin from school it's kind of outside smell and he comes into the car he has an outside smell it's like a sunny smell no it doesn't it smells like the outside it's very specific it's very curious about this okay okay you use a clothesline your clothes are gonna have the outside smell even if they're clean and then that's the whole point so from a dryer fresh you want to like shove your face in it and just inhale it's a and i clock that it's a much better smell than off the line yeah do you use a line at your apartment well we don't have them no one's put them up it's a string no so this puts me on to another topic i want to know what you think of the inside clothes rack

Oh, I have that I mean, that's sort of similar That's an efficient thing You put it in the sun And that's another way to do it Well, you don't put it in the sun You just leave it In the house, but in a window where the sun's coming in

Right, I mean, mine's pretty dark Oh yeah, but it still works? Yeah, it still works It's just air dry No outside smell Just inside smell I mean, I wish I had a clothesline inside for protecting from the smell, but most of my clothes are air dry only. Right.

Like you're not supposed to put them in the dryer. Don't you think it's unusual just in general that you don't see clothes? There's no space. In some areas, some people have backyards okay and i'm yet to see someone with a clothesline i just think it's so i guess in new zealand every flat every house there's just clotheslines everywhere but you can't move for like getting hit by a clothesline oh well that sounds inefficient i feel like it would get dirty if you did it in la because our table in the backyard gets dusty and dirt on it.

I think that's a real problem. If it was out there for 10 hours, it wouldn't be clean. Well, our air is dirty. It's bad here. Yeah. I went to dust my bookshelf the other day and I just ran my finger along it. Yeah. It's bad here, isn't it?

Yeah, and the closer you are to the highway or a busy street, you have to have all these air purifiers in LA. Yeah, horrible. Horrific. But also even, let's take it out of LA. If you're in a city, I don't see how there's any room for it. Where are you putting it? Don't have room for a laundry machine, but you've got room for a clothesline. Some places definitely don't have room for it.

A hundred percent. Yeah. And then weather is a factor for sure. For sure. Not here, but in Georgia, you don't know when it's going to rain. Yeah, so you hang your stuff out in the morning and it just gets rained on. You come home, it's even more wet than when you put it out. And mud is in the mud.

Mud. Well, is mud being sort of flicked up onto the coastline? Where's the mud coming from? From the ground of the dirt, it splashes up. Oh, it just gets flicked up. Yeah. Oh, horrific. No, these are some good points.

Okay. These are some good points. I just want you to go to a playground, okay, where kids are playing. Uh-huh. Sounds like a setup. And smell. And just start sniffing. Just start sort of sniffing the air around the kids.

Mm-hmm. And then you'll know what I mean. And we'll get some bail bonds. Yeah. That's okay for the bail bonds episode. That's an Easter egg. No, good point. My only theory about it was always in horror films,

there's always washing light in the breeze, you know, like blowing. I do like that. And there's a killer on the other side. And I thought maybe Americans just got so scared of washing lines from horror films, they just stopped hanging their washing out because they're so scary. I think it's more of like a southern thing that you're using clotheslines and that's usually where those a lot of horror movies are in the south they're in like cornfields yeah you imagine it with cornfields totally so i mean porches and stuff maybe certain parts of america there are clothes

lines everywhere we have more space more space it is a space thing la no clothes lines because there's not enough space it's space but it is true i don't know anyone who uses a clothesline everyone uses a dryer yeah you think oh you'd meet one person that's always hanging their clothes out to dry i think it's convenience for the most part yes efficiency speed speed and smell it really makes a difference smell well yeah it's like you don't know people that are using typewriters still they're using computer because it's faster you're more efficient i know you guys are like you're so inefficient yeah we just like using the sun that big heater in the sky i do love this i mean it's a favorite thing it's better for the

environment for sure in new zealand there's a certain type of clothes rack that's plastic. It's every student has one in the house. I have that. And they're just, oh, you've got one of those. I think. And they're sort of just universally hated because they're so ugly. And you get into someone's house and there's 10 clothes sources out covered in stuff. And it's so iconically gross.

Oh, God. I have that. The like folding wiry ones. Yeah, folding wiry ones. Yeah. Like where do you put it when you're not using it? It's in the laundry room. Just in the laundry room.

Luckily, I have a laundry room. I agree. I hate the way it looks. It's horrible. And it's too small. I need a lot, but I don't have space. You always run out of room. Two or three of them.

Yeah. Well, again, in the new house i said i need a lot of space for hanging i did say that but not outside also that you've got a bit of room for hanging clothes indoors right it's not really good for your clothes and i'm definitely outdoor smell is not an option ew i smell it smell it on people, guys. I don't like it. I'm going to look more into this. I'm going to find a washing line in LA, hang out, do a round of washing, hang it out, and

see if you notice a different smell on me. Like, haven't you ever been around someone who's been golfing all day? Not in a while. You're doing construction outside. Can you come up with an example for me that I might be able to clock? It's more golf because there's something about grass. Grass has an added impact on outside smell.

Okay. I hear what you're talking about. Everyone knows if they really start clicking in. Yeah, I want to smell this outdoor smell. Next time you smell it, can you tell me if I'm near you and just be, that's the smell. It's not body odor. It's not. It might be exacerbated by body odor, but it's added.

It's different than just if you're sweating in your house. Okay. Indoors or in a gym versus when you've been running on a track outside. It's different. A bit grassy, a bit earthy. In a gym versus when you've been running on a track outside. Outside. It's different. A bit grassy, a bit earthy. Mm-hmm. Because I remember the smell from my tunnel as a child.

Right. And that was a certain, I didn't love the smell. Yeah. And if it's on your clothes, that's how you smell. Yeah, right. Interesting. Okay, not noted. As opposed to that nice, fluffy, cottony smell.

Oh, it's the best. There's nothing better than getting into a bed that you've just made and the sheets have just come out of the dryer. It is the best thing in the world. Yeah. Okay. As a little prank sometime, I'm somehow going to figure out a way to somehow wash your stuff

and hang it out and get outside smell. I'll know it immediately. On your bedding or something, and you'll just lie down and be like, outdoor smell. Ew. You your bedding or something. And you'll just lie down and be like, outdoor smell. Ew. Ew. You know, laundromats.

That was fun. American. I'm wrong. I think today, Monica, I think you have become more American. I think you're right. I think you're heading up towards where you'll be pushing. I mean, you're so American. You'll be 102% after that.

Well, now you know that I am 100% American, as you learned. Even though you were brought here. Exactly. Look, I've learned about that now, okay? I know. I know. Oh, I'm going to do another episode as well about tampons. Because I just found out that in America there is a plastic applicator. And in New Zealand, we just use fingers. Wait, no, stop. Yeah, no, just so you know.

So no, this is something I'm fascinated by. You mean they use paper applicators or what do you mean they use fingers? No, there's no applicator. Oh, they don't have an applicator. There's no applicator. So I'm obsessed with this. So in America, your American woman putting the plastic to apply the tampon. I've heard of it. In New Zealand, was she using a finger?

Think about that. I am interested in this. That'll be a good one. Culturally, I'm so fascinated by the different styles and why and how we think about it. Well, good thing my friend lives in America because she lived in New Zealand and then wasn't washing her hands. What's that smell? See, that's a different smell. That's different than outside smell, but it is a specific smell.

It's inside smell. Okay. Next week. Have a good week. Love you guys. Bye.