Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Flightless Bird: Maths

Episode Date: November 1, 2022

In this week’s Flightless Bird, David Farrier sets out to understand why Americans say “math”, while New Zealand - and most of the rest of the world - says “maths”. He speaks to Dean Koorey about the mysteries of language, before stumbling into the depths of math/maths and the perils of the metric system. How many ounces in a pound? How many pounds are in a stone? And why is America stuck using the imperial system when the rest of the planet loves the sensible metric system? Farrier is shocked to find that NASA once lost a space probe thanks to a metric conversion disaster, and meets with aerospace engineer Omar Abed to get to the bottom of the mess. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm David Farrier, a New Zealander accidentally marooned in America, and I want to figure out what makes this country tick. Now I like to think that in making this podcast, I'm slowly learning to understand the customs and ways of the American people. And I am making progress. I'm tipping correctly, and if I'm horribly injured, I feel somewhat prepared for the trials and tribulations of the healthcare system. I'm also getting used to getting a side of fries with everything,

and the fact that you call fries fries and not chips. However, other things are more subtle and difficult to wrap my head around, and I realise that decades in New Zealand means that fitting into the United States is riddled with danger at every turn, something that became painfully clear during the tipping episode of Flightless Bird. Let's rewind to September 6th. It was a Tuesday. Good, and I'm really happy we've settled at the 20.

This is a good place to be. 20 is a great place to be. Mainly just because I can do the maths. Maths isn't my strong suit, and thank God it's not some other amount. Okay, and also, in America, it's math singular. What? Oh, math singular What? Oh, God What?

You do math? Are you being serious? No, I think this is probably just me being uneducated in general I think it's probably the same in New Zealand Okay I would say I'm bad at maths, but it should be I'm bad at math No That's what you said, you said maths a couple of times

Oh, that's what I've said my entire life. No. No, this is me. Okay. It's math, singular. Okay. Thank you for this education. Monica absolutely roasted me for the way I talked about mathematics. My whole life I'd said maths, but here in America, it's math, no S. I panicked in the moment, backing down instantly, scampering away like a crab running under a rock. Dax noticed too. This was our conversation on an armchair expert that I accidentally gate-crashed. Okay, so we're not here to talk about the way you say math or maths,

or how quickly you concede to a counterpoint. What? Can I just double down that... It's math? You have to say math in America. Of all the topics I've delved into on Flightless Bird, religion, tipping, the healthcare system, it was this one word that elicited a tidal wave of feedback and raging debate. My inbox was filled to the brim, people fizzing from the bunghole with screams of math and maths. I'd hit some kind of pressure point, not only in the United States, but across the entire planet. I wanted to find out what the

confusion came from, and more importantly, who was right and who was wrong. So get your ruler, protractor, set square, compass and calculator, and don't forget to sharpen that pencil, because this is the maths, math, this is the mathematics episode. Do you feel like this is going to be an attack? I feel defensive. That whole math, maths thing marked a very seminal moment in Cinnamon's path and armchair umbrella. It's happened with you and I. There's a pivotal moment where the power phase is liked more than the

introductory phase so i did not expect that to be the end of that no like basically what i learned in that is that people were willing to skewer you and i because they love david so much that's my point very seminal moment mon Monica's looking for a very dark look. Because I don't like to not be liked, so ouch. But it's also a seminal moment for you. It's a passing of the torch. Do you know how much shit I've gotten on your behalf? I mean, do you know how many people have come from my head?

Well, also same about you. People are very passionate. And when people think a point, they go all the way in. And this is the internet in general. There's no one out there saying, oh, there was a difference of opinion. It's like picking sides and it's a war, which I secretly really like when it's about something as funny as language. I agree. Okay.

But people in other countries, look, this is a show about America and I stand by. I stand by. I stand by. In America, you say math. And you were very clear about that. Yeah. And this episode is going to be a big battle, and it's going to be a fight. Oh, fuck. But I also want to say that you did very specifically say, in America, this is what you say.

And that was new information to me. And so I appreciated getting that information. I'm not ready to leave the emotional point. There's an emotional thing that happened, which is really beautiful, which is for at least this show, we introduced you to the listeners. And the listeners were like, fuck you two. I'm team David Ferrier. That's a beautiful moment. And I don't want to skim over it.

It felt good. Right? Yeah,. It felt good. Right? Yeah, it felt really good. Yeah, it's like you're going to meet up with some friends at an amusement park and you bring a stranger, right? And then midway through, you're like, I'm in the mood for hot dogs. The friend you brought that was a stranger to the other people says, I want pizza. And then the other gang goes, yeah, we're going with Mike to get pizza. And you're like, whoa, that flipped.

Yeah, when did that show? I hate that guy. Why? Because you should be loyal. You should be loyal. I think it's a beautiful moment for David. What I loved about this is that when you're doing a podcast, and this is my first experience doing this,

you don't know what is going to cut through into people's very core and i thought episode one religion mega church is god why we're here i thought that would create some craziness it was like crickets people listen to it they're like okay what's really staggering when you enter is like how religious the country is so that's maybe the downside but then the upside is we've also been hearing this goddamn debate since we were born in this country. Yeah, like I think we're kind of immune to it. Yeah, this is a new debate. Maths and maths, people's imaginations were just ignited and everyone, I guess everyone could speak on it as well. It's a new technology, math. Maths is like a whole new technology. Oh no, now you're gonna say it. No, God no. It sounds

ridiculous. Exactly. Oh, it's preposterous. None of the disciplines do you plural, now you're gonna say it? No, god no. It sounds ridiculous. Exactly. Oh, it's preposterous. None of the disciplines do you pluralize. We're gonna get into this. We go some places. We're gonna go on a real journey. Okay. But I did want to find out whether Monica was alone in this. She wasn't. Do you say math or maths? Math or mathematics. That's what we say. In New Zealand, we put an S on the end. We all say maths. Never. No. No S. Don't ask me to pronounce it. My pronunciation is horrible.

Do you say math or maths? Math. Would you ever say maths or is it always math? Math. Math. Math. Math. Can't get used to it.

It's always been math for me. Yeah, always been math. Math. Math. Math. Can't get used to it. It's always been math for me. Yeah, always been math. Math. You say mathematics, so why are you dropping the S when you shorten it to math? That's a good question. There's probably an answer somewhere, but I don't know it. I say math. You never say maths?

I haven't, but I listened to the episode, and I think everyone else does, so I'm on your side on this one. I really appreciate that. That's really good. Yes. Mother fuck. Well, definitely it's not maths-matics. Well, that's also a good one. Yeah, so we're taking the first part.

If we took the second part, we might say matics if it was an abbreviation in that way. But it's not appropriate to add the S from the end of the word to the middle of the word. Okay. You say mathematics because under the umbrella of mathematics, you have addition, subtraction, division, multiplication, algebra, trigonometry. Calc. This is the field of mathematics. When you use the term math, you say, did the math do the math you're talking about addition you're not talking about the full spectrum of mathematics it is always implied exactly what element of the mathematics umbrella

you're talking about you know you got to deduct what he owes you do the math you mean subtraction you don't mean plural. You don't mean many different things. What do you say when you're at school in America and you're off to math's class? Math. You don't say, I'm off to mathematics. You say, I'm going to math. I have math next, is what you would say.

But if you say, I'm off to math, that means you're doing one thing. You just have to do some adding. We're doing adding today. You are. If you're going to math in high school, you have algebra. You have trigonometry. You are. You just have to do some adding. We're doing adding today. You are. If you're going to math in high school, you have algebra. You have trigonometry. You have geometry. You're not going into a general philosophical debate about mathematics as a historical discipline.

It's one thing. I can see. No, that makes perfect sense. Okay. It also elicits so much fear in me because I truly hated the subject mathematics and I still get those dreams where I am at the end of the school year and I've got the big maths exam coming up math exam coming up and I realize I haven't gone to any of the classes all year and I know nothing and that is the stress stream that has never ever gone away oh. Okay, so math ends at seventh grade here, typically.

How old are you in seventh grade? 12. 14, okay. Oh, seventh grade, yeah. 12 and 13. Because in eighth grade starts pre-algebra. Pre-algebra. So for me, anyway, this is how it went.

Oh, God. He's dribbling out. Cream pie. Wow, whoa, you went over the top. Well, we learned about it. Ding, ding, ding. Oh went over the top well we learned about it ding ding ding oh we learned about it in porn

okay you aren't listening to these I'm learning we have too many shows we're recording them and trying to listen to all of them it's not possible yeah

okay I gotta pick and choose so you'd say I'm going to map I listened to the beginning of pornography okay so I can hear about

your guys' sexual experiences which interests me greatly oh yeah but you are stranger sexual experiences I was like I can't skip that but you are unique. Are there stranger sexual experiences? I was like, I can't skip this. Well, he goes to a porn site. It is really great.

Anyway. Okay. Stop! Oh, my God. This is what I wanted from this episode, tension. This is so good. She's going to have a tantrum. She never had an on-air tantrum.

Okay. You'd say, I'm going to math. Kindergarten, first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh. In eighth grade, you'd say, oh, I have pre-algebra. You might still say math if you're slow to transition, but it's pre-algebra. Then ninth grade, geometry. Tenth grade, trig. Eleventh grade, pre-cal.

You ought to take two of pre-cal and algebra two if you're on the trajectory. Pre-algebra is everything but not quite full algebra. Introduction to the quadratic equation. When I went to school, we had maths, and then eventually we would go into either statistics, which was for the idiots, or calculus, which was for the really smart people. I definitely did statistics. Calc, I just could not get my head around at all. I did stat also in my senior year.

You could do, I did AP stat. You could do AP. Stat or stats? Stat. Oh, do you say stats? Oh, stats, yeah. Yeah, statistics. I mean, those are the stats.

I actually, I get that a little more than maths. Oh, hello. Yeah, I've never even heard anyone saying stats. So that's new to me. Okay, but did you take stats? No, so I was on the trajectory of you had to double up in your, I guess, 10th or 11th grade year. You had to do trig and pre-calc. Oh, yeah.

Two hours of my day were math, and then I just had this light bulb moment. I think it corresponded perfectly with when I was reading On the Road and already beginning to question whether I wanted to go to college or be a professional. And I just had this moment where I was like, what on earth am I doing? I am never in life going to be using any of these formulas or having to figure out these problems. And then I flat dumped out. I don't even think I had math in senior year. Just done. Wow. Done. I like retired from math in 11th grade.

So none of us have taken calculus. We all stopped at pre-cal. And then we went stat. That's a nice thing to share. Did you say pre-cal or pre-calc? I guess I said pre-cal. It just came out of my mouth. Oh, God, that's even closer to pre-cal.

We're getting closer to pre-cal. It just gets so much nastier. The more boys in the room, the nastier it gets. The other thing, just very quickly about school, it is alarming when you look back. It seems useless. I know you're forming social bonds and you're testing your brain and you're figuring out all that stuff,

but most of the content that went into my brain during school in New Zealand, I'm not using any of it. I'm taking it to an extreme. Stuff like calculus, statistics. Maths. There's a bunch of stuff. Chemistry. Chemistry, not using any chemistry.

I find that I like knowing how atoms become molecules. I'm glad I know of all that stuff. And I love biology, and that seems applicable to my normal thoughts. But calculus, no. Trigonometry calculus no trigonometry no geometry sure you run into an occasional i've had to use the pythagorean theorem in real life you're building things though you're more practical i'm not so i don't get to use any of that stuff but that's great you do are kids at school still getting out protractors and compasses and stuff or is it all on the laptop my daughters are currently fucking around out protractors and compasses and stuff, or is it all on the laptop? My daughters are currently fucking around with protractors. That's exciting.

Compasses, I'm sorry. Do you know what pi is? Pi 3.11 something, something, something, something recurring. Yeah, 3.14. And do you know pi r squared? No, no idea. Pi r round. No, okay.

The area of a circle is Pi R squared. Really? But we all know Pi R round. Do you get it? It's a math joke. I get it. It's really good. There's so many hilarious math jokes.

I got to go back to the intro. One last thing before you transition. The way you were saying math to all the people you were questioning, you sounded like the evil reptile in the Garden of Eden. You were like, do you say math? We're trying to lure them over. There were a few examples where I'd go to ask that question and people just didn't hear the difference. So that's why I started going, instead of saying math or maths,

they'd be like, what? I'd be like, math or maths? And then they started getting what the situation was. It was a weird scenario though. I've been thinking about this a lot. So I went and made a documentary about my journey into this and I want to share it with you. Growing up, we're taught to avoid talking about religion and politics around the dinner table. They're giant divisive topics that bring out the worst in us. Since being in America, I'd add maths to the list. around the dinner table. They're giant divisive topics that bring out the worst in us. Since being in America, I'd add maths to the list.

It's definitely math. You're wrong. Wrote Christine on Instagram. You're right. It's maths. Americans don't know what they're wrong about. Said Eddie. You had me yelling at how quickly you allowed yourself to be corrected. Wrote Tamara.

Whereas Shelley leapt to Monica's defense, saying, Anyone judging Monica for how she speaks to David, you know they adore each other, and her talking about his maths mistakes are a friendly ribbing. Let's be clear. Monica and I get on great. Love her. But this wasn't a friendly ribbing.

It was an act of war. But I'm a peacemaker. And so to keep the peace, I needed to get to the bottom of why I'm so happy saying maths, while Monica and the rest of America say math. My name's Dean Currie. I'm a freelance writer. I'm living in Australia at the moment. It was clear I couldn't talk to an American about this touchy subject, and a New Zealander would be too biased towards me. So as a compromise, I tracked down a New Zealander who deflected to New Zealand's sworn enemy, Australia. There's logic in that, I promise. I work for the Australian Writers' Centre, doing a lot of content writing for them.

And since 2014, I've actually done a weekly column about the quirks and inconsistencies of the English language, whether that's the differences in the way people spell words or say them or the origin of lots of sayings and things. Just an etymological playground. And it's really good fun. Obviously, in New Zealand, we say math. In America, it's meth. This was a real surprise to me. There was news to you, clearly. Typically, the world looks in at America there's such a big influence in TV, movies, social media, the

internet, that often the world knows what's going on in America, but often the other way around isn't so much. This is entirely true. Growing up in New Zealand, America made a big impact. There's a reason my cat was called Chandler Bing. We watched your TV shows and movies and went ballistic when Burger King and Carl's Jr. opened. 9-11 dominated our local news shows. So did Obama and Trump.

The fact is, tiny places like New Zealand know what's happening in America, and it doesn't really work the other way around. I mean, what do you know about New Zealand besides Lord of the Rings, Flight of the Conchords, and sheep? Most of the time it's North America versus the rest of the world with these kind of differences. So what's going on? Why am I saying maths while America says math? It's one of these fascinating history lessons, and I'm going to say from the start that I might get a bit of flack for this, but no one's wrong in this situation. Yeah, yeah. Goodbye.

Yeah. No, there is definitely what people are used to. And everyone in their camp is going to claim that their way is the best way. But if you actually look historically. Yeah, but just quickly, I'm going to interrupt there because it must be wrong. I mean, you say mathematics, right? You don't say mathematic. You say mathematics right you don't say mathematic you say mathematics so there if you're going to shorten it it's clearly going to be maths

as opposed to math yeah what do you shorten gymnastics to jim right you bastard and welcome to the english language if we go back to the 14th century the word was actually from lat, mathematica, or just mathematic. It was actually once just mathematic, like arithmetic. Holy shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's looking shaky right now. Okay. So originally, there was no S attached to the end of math. When the British came over to America in like the 1600s, 1700s, that was what everyone was

saying at the time. So it's a bit like a fossil. They took it and ran with it at that point in history. Yes, there was communication across the ocean, but it wasn't like it is today. This is how a lot of words happened. It was that kind of diverging. If you think of that end of Fast and Furious 7. He's talking about that dramatic scene where at the end of Furious 7, as a farewell to the real life Paul Walker

had recently passed away, Brian and Dom are presented with two diverging roads in front of them. Let's say USA's Paul Walker. And so he's going off into the sunset. It's all about family. Britain stayed on the course. So they diverged. And that's kind of what's happened with this one here. They've taken what was the word at the time for everyone. And yet after those two words split, it's been a long time, you know, and all that stuff. That's when Britain decided around about the 1700s, suddenly got this big fad about adding S's to everything. It wasn't about a plural, because if you say the sentence, mathematics is my favorite subject. Well, it is. It's a singular. You're the sentence mathematics is my favorite subject,

well, it is. It's a singular. You're not saying mathematics are my favorite subject. So it's nothing to do with a plural. Dean points out that there were no dictionaries in the 1700s. That wouldn't happen for another 200 years or so. So language was sort of an untamed Wild West. How does it happen where suddenly Britain and the rest of us are suddenly deciding

to throw an s on i mean it's not a social media trend there's no tiktok how the heck is that happening yeah well i mean back then britain was pretty much the world and what they said ran and there were a lot of decisions they made it was like a big rebuilding phase it was like a word renaissance king one of the georges i think there were about four in a row there for a while. He was really obsessed with the French throughout the 1700s and up to Queen Victoria in the 1800s. So we got a lot of words like the new French way of doing it rather than the original Latin, which it had come from. And America's gone back to the original Latin with a lot of their spelling, like theater with the E-R, whereas we've kept the R-E, that kind of thing. Oh yeah, that drives me nuts too.

In New Zealand, I spell theatre T-H-E-A-T-R-E. In America, you're all about E-R at the end. And there's a whole bunch of other analog with the U-E on the end. Spelling is a whole other episode, but the point is this. It used to be math for everyone. That idea came to America, and it stuck. It stuck while the rest of the planet moved on, adding an S, turning math into maths. There was a whole lot of things going on at once,

and physics became physics, economic became economic. So all these subjects, not just mathematics, a lot of them got an S added to it. Except for America. Around about the start of the 20th century, when things were being shortened, it was just pick a lane. America had earlier gone with math. They were still harking back to when it wasn't pseudo-plural.

It's not a plural, but you know. And Britain decided, we like the sound of maths. And as you can see, it's so inconsistent. Oh, we just found out with gymnastics or athletics or stats for statistics or econ. Some people say for economics. So it just goes back and forwards. Whenever you're trying to make sense of things, you look for patterns. I thought maybe I'd found my pattern.

A pattern that went, when in America, throw all your S's in the rubbish. Or trash, as you say in America. But it's not that easy. There's drama at every turn. A man has fallen into the river in Lego City. Start the new rescue helicopter. Start the rescue helicopter, all right, because it's another disaster involving the letter S. Newsflash, America.

While you say Legos, the rest of the planet says Lego. So what the heck is going on with Lego? We say Lego. The whole world says Lego. America calls it Legos. They say we're getting a Legos set for our child. They have put an S on, which is truly deranged. Exactly. So now we get the opposite. It's probably the second Lego-related kind of

grievance over stepping on them in the middle of the night or something. But this comes down to the whole thing about countable nouns and mass nouns. You can get one chair or table and lots of tables or chairs, but you can't have lots of furnitures. Furniture is a mass noun. It's like water versus drops of water. So yes, to us, it sounds like when someone talks about playing with Legos or buying Legos for their child, it's like they're saying, I'm going to drink a glass of waters. It just sounds ridiculous.

And it is ridiculous. And in this case, I'm not going to say both are right because one is right and it's us with Lego. If you go to the source of Lego, which is the Lego Group in Denmark, they've been very clear that Lego is the company name. It should be used as an adjective, as in Lego bricks or Lego sets. It shouldn't be something that you count. So you don't say Legos when talking about the bits, you say Lego bricks. Bricks get the S, not Lego. They say America is the land of the free, but I say it's the land of mass confusion. So if you want a few other examples, sports versus sport. So Americans are into sports. That's what you'll find on the back page of the newspaper with the S on the end. So here we go.

They've added an S again. Mashed potatoes versus mashed potato. They'll also say we've got quite a ways to go as opposed to we've got quite a way to go. Americans going back the other way will work towards something, whereas often the rest of the world is going towards something. There is so many. It's just a Pandora's box. To be honest, at this point, it's a Pandora's box that's making me feel completely unhinged. The walls are closing in on me. The funnest little things I like looking at is actual words which are completely different

in America. Like New Zealand, we grew up saying you would acclimatize to America. Yeah, absolutely. Acclimatize. Maybe unless they're talking about an air conditioning unit, they don't use that. They would say acclimate. It's a completely different word. You've got aluminum and aluminium, but they're actually different words. So there's a whole nother thing on that. Maybe we can chat about that sometime. To be honest, I feel like I'm done with the talking. I feel like I'm done with words. What even are words? We've just made them up.

We're a bunch of apes who've gotten control of our tongues and lips and started talking. And we all do it in our own way. And we all think that we're right when none of us are right and none of us are wrong. So to Monica Atroce, I offer an olive branch of friendship and end to none of us are wrong. So to Monica, a truce, I offer an olive branch of friendship and end to this godforsaken war. I'll say math if she says Lego. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors.

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requirements. Need to hire? You need Indeed. Just visit indeed.com slash bird to start hiring now. Just go to indeed.com slash bird. Indeed.com slash bird. Terms and conditions apply. slash bird. Terms and conditions apply. Can you do it? Can you say Lego? I've never heard an American say it. I've never said it. That guy rules. I love to. Dean is great. Writerscenter.com.au if you want to read his columns about language and why we are doing what we're doing. Okay. Lego, if you asked the company, I'll give you that. I will give you that.

That's a different thing. That's a company. But I feel a few things. Interesting that you, Dax, started this conversation by making it emotional. Because I am now. It was the first Fast and furious song well i don't read the comments so hearing some of those well the very nice one the woman who stuck up for me that person obviously reads the comments and that means that there are a lot of comments about how i speak to you well i think in that moment not in general i don't know

it kind of sounds like for all the people that don't like the way monica talks to david no it was around this debate this math math thing went bonkers it's so bonkers that that's why she's making that reference to all the people when i used to look at them for armchair, there was a slew of that exact same sentiment about I put you down and Jax is always elevating Monica and she's always putting him down. And that is my job here is to offer a different opinion.

I think we're not so used to a woman saying, hey, that's wrong, or hey, I'm presenting this and meeting a tall, white, charismatic, charming man that now there are two. Which one? Exactly. Now I have two. And it bums me out.

Oh, I think we'd be bummed out. I'm scared. But you really think that this specific example is sexism? I think you're a lot more assertive than david i'm a lot more assertive than david david was is much more likely to acquiesce and forget sexist like he is so much more acquiescent than you and i are it's my new zealand way we're the pilots from new york city flying out of teeterborough like we'll go we're getting on the fucking plane. You know. And I think that's what it is. If it's not, I'm not talking.

I get those random. By the way, I get those, too. It's like, Dax, why won't you let Monica have a nicer seat? Dax, why won't you? It's like all these, I'm the big, bad, white male that's not letting you do stuff. You're going to get a handful of people that can only see the world through the lens of that. Right. You were like, that's crazy, as I would have said. And then he just moved on sheepishly. And I think people felt sad for him. It was a perfect storm. That he didn't defend himself. It was a perfect storm. It's not a comment really, I think, on your aggressiveness

as much as they felt bad he didn't defend himself. That's fine. If it's just about this conversation, as they felt bad he didn't defend himself. That's fine. If it's just about this conversation, sure, great. But I'm worried that there are more about just the way that we communicate. And I am more aggressive than you. It's so funny because I thought if we had any problem on the podcast, it was that we're agreeing with each other too much. I always think we're too much in the same boat.

I'm like, oh, no. Well, people just think we've got two people with the same brain. So the idea that there's a perceived conflict about maths and maths, I just find it very funny. And I don't want you to feel sad about it. Don't feel sad. Anyone fighting about math or maths, I mean, it's just all so funny. It is funny. I just worried about a deeper issue that is old for me and you. If I see that replaying, I don't like it. The thing that I've found very interesting about the show is what people think it is. So the biggest insult I'll get tagged in about anything I do will always be like, and you call yourself a journalist and you said that. It's interesting because I don't see this show as journalism. I see it as kind of a quirky, interesting,

me sort of wandering and sort of meeting people and learning. And I sort of know nothing. And I know a little bit more at the end, but I definitely don't know everything. But it's funny. Some people like to go to that sort of wanting a news team approach where I'm sort of a well-resourced machine going out and getting every angle and every...

Staying completely neutral. Even if I leave a fact out, it's like, you call yourself a journalist? You didn't mention this aspect of porn. It's like a sort of an hour we make every week and it's sort of delightful and weird, but it's not journalism. Yeah.

No, nor are you claiming it's journalism. But by the way, people are just very adept at figuring out the one thing they think they can best you in an argument with. So yours is not very journalistic of you. Yeah. It's comical. But that's just going to be a go-to. So for you, that's an easy go-to that's sitting there on the table.

If they didn't like your opinion on pornography, that's just an easy go-for-the-knees shot. I also have to just really quickly compare this to the howard stern show which i know you guys don't listen to i've listened to it a few times i get the vibe the notion that people are defending anyone in this room because we're being bullied is hysterical relative to the howard stern show like i can't imagine what the commenters saying they're they're downright cruel to each other they're fucking with each other they're telling each other they got fired they're faking deaths 12 of them gang up on some guy till he finally blows up and that's the show the show

is like this funny brutal yeah it's the funny tension between this group of people that basically live together you know that's the story of the show. But it's a lot of men. I mean, there's Robin, but I don't know if she's a part of the nagging. And so for me, it feels way worse. I don't know if it's sexism, but it feels worse to be the woman who people are saying is naggy or putting the men down in the room

when I'm just doing what everyone else is doing. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. If that's ever a criticism, it's a completely mad criticism. And maybe it's not there. But it's also built into culture in general. So it's in the world in general. So there's going to be elements of that everywhere, right?

But I also feel like... If you find a woman's personality aggressive, like you would find a man's aggressive, do you have to assume, well, I only mind her aggressiveness because she's a woman? If you like a man's aggression, yeah. But I don't think anyone likes aggressive, period. Yes, they do. They like strong men with opinions who come in with confidence and are eloquent and able to speak them. And if a woman comes in, they're not given that same level of respect inherently.

I mean, unless there's more chance it's going to be a nag as opposed to a sort of this. Unless they're cozy and sweet and can package it up perfectly so that it's palatable. I don't know. Anyway, I also think that you did this to help me. I hear that.

I see that. And I appreciate that. Yeah. Well, I did sort of pitch it as being a war. I also want it to be a bridge building exercise. Well, what's really funny is like, so throughout that whole piece, I would latch onto something like, well, okay, so we have it right because it started with math. Also, it's from the Latin and A is the plural or a vowel at the end is the plural and there

is no S. And then we immediately start contradicting our own rule, whether it's Legos or – that's what's great. It's like nobody even has a rule they're following consistently. Oh, it's chaos. It's total chaos. That's what I love about this. I do want to say the Lego thing. What I think happens with Legos, first and foremost, I can't believe in Michigan that we don't say maths.

We put an S on everything. That's right. Kroger's, Target's, Walmart's, everything's got an S. I think the Lego thing in this country suffers from whatever that term is where you come to know the product as the brand name Kleenex. We only say Kleenex. We say Xerox. I don't think I've ever thought that those were Lego brand bricks. The brick itself is a Lego.

No one's ever said a Lego brick in my entire life. The brick itself is called a Lego. So even a knockoff brand would still be a Lego box. Totally. You'd even say, do you see those huge Legos they're making? Some other brand. They make these big Legos. Sounds exciting.

Because there were. What is it? Duplo? Duplo. Yeah, those are just big Legos. Yeah, for kids, right? And then you would never say I'm going to play Lego because that to me would mean you're going to take one brick and start playing with it.

We're talking about all the bricks. We call the items Legos. We don't realize that's the brand name. Can you get me a blue Lego and then a green Lego? Yes, we would say it then. Yeah. That's so funny. But I'm going to play Legos. Legos are the noun.

Yeah. I also really like Lego. I'm one of those pathetic adults that still will buy Lego sets. And so the other day someone texted me and I was like, I wanted them to think I was cool. And I was like, what are you doing? And what I was doing was sat there playing Lego. Yeah, yeah. And I just had a moment where I'm 39.

I said, you know when you capture sort of how pathetic a certain aspect of your life is? And I'm sort of sitting there with my instruction manual, crawling around on the floor trying to find the bit. And I was like, what is this? Is this what I should be using my time to do? And I tell you, when that spaceship was built, I felt so proud. It's so cool.

I think it's fine. Thank you. Yeah, the only thing I object to is using the instructions. That's the only part to me that sounded embarrassing or pathetic. You see how complicated this set was. I have a friend's set and it just sits because I don't play with Legos. I would love

for somebody to build it for me. How come I build it? Do you want to come over and play Legos? Absolutely. You guys say they'll play Lego. You're right. I'll say it right. And have wine. But you know what I say? But I mean wines. I say, do you say, I'm going to go play Legos?

I'd say, I'm going to go play with Legos. Yes. Not play with Lego. Want to build some Lego together this weekend? Oh, wow. Yeah, Lego. That sounds crazy. All right.

So I've got a little bit more of this documentary. Okay. You thought this was over? It's not over. Yay. There's more. It's 3 a.m. and I'm wide awake. all right so i've got a little bit more of this documentary okay you thought this was over it's not over yay there's more it's 3 a.m and i'm wide awake dean's words are echoing through my head no one's wrong in this no one's wrong in this no one's wrong in this and when it comes to language maths and math he's right i get that but But these differences between America and the rest of the world have consequences. Because thinking about how I say mathematics got me thinking about numbers

and how we use them in America. More specifically, how we use numbers and measurement. And so when the sun finally came up and the weird American bird started calling, I went for a walk, and started talking to people along the way. How many ounces in a pound? Sixteen. Good job. Sixteen. Oh, in a pound? I have no idea. I'm talking to people about units of measurement because American measurements make no sense to me.

In New Zealand, like most of the modern world, we use the metric system. But America is stuck in the dark ages. Inches, feet, yards, miles, ounces, stones, pounds. 16 ounces in a pound. 16. 16. How many ounces in a pound? I don't know.

16? 32? 28? Look, most people I bummed into knew how many ounces were in a pound. 16. 16. Yeah, 16. 16. But what about how many pounds were in a pound. 16. 16. Yeah, 16. 16. But what about how many pounds in a stone? How many pounds in a stone?

Is that a trick question? Couldn't tell you. Okay, so my ex-boyfriend is Scottish, and we've had this conversation, even he doesn't know. How many do you think? I thought it was seven. It's 14. Okay.

I had half of it. Darn it. Oh, man, hold on. 60? I thought it was seven. It's 14. Okay. I had half of it. Darn it. Oh, man. Hold on. 60? No, it's like 14 or 13.7. You're the first person to get 14. Correct.

Wow. Yeah, there are 14 pounds in a stone. 14. Why? There were 16 ounces in a pound. So, of course, logically, there are 14 pounds in a stone. Makes perfect sense. Look, to be fair, America doesn't really do stones.

That wasn't yet part of the imperial system when the 13 colonies began, apparently. But my point is, the imperial system's rubbish. You guys need to get the metric system. It's really good. I used to share cooking, and everything was both the metric, and then there was the part for the Americans. That's how I would put it. Even though I'm an American and I'm from California, there's for the smart people and there's for us. She's being self-deprecating. Americans, please don't murder me. You're as smart or as dumb as anyone is. But what's going on here? Most of the planet uses the metric system, the most up-to-date version is known as the

international system of units, where everything operates in multiples of 10. It makes sense. When you adopt the metric system, it's known as metrication. Every nation in the world has metricated. Every nation except Myanmar, Liberia, and the United States of America. As Dean from earlier puts it, America's fully dived into the Kool-Aid of the imperial

system. The imperial stormtroopers. The imperial system is just objectively bonkers. Back in 2018, Twitter user Irons pointed out the crazy in a series of tweets. I'll paraphrase, but it went like this. There are 16 ounces in a pound. 16. What kind of number is that? Guess how many pounds are in a stone? You'll never guess. Fourteen. Maths has clearly abandoned us. Numbers mean nothing at this point. How many ounces in a cup?

Eight. Okay. Whatever you say, America. Twelve inches in a foot, and three feet in a yard, and 1,760 yards in a mile. What? Continuing on my walk, which I was attempting to calculate in yards, I was feeling increasingly unhinged. It was at that moment I met a recent graduate who threw more chaos into my already fragile brain. And there's also the association with math

with either red binders or blue binders. There's a very big debate. What? If you ask most high school or college students, what colour is math associated with, half of them will say red and half of them will say blue. What do you say? I say blue. Me too. English is red. Yes. Yeah and science is always green. History is yellow. Yeah. So we kind of color coordinated all the subjects

based on the binder we used for them in like middle school or high school. This is amazing and do you think that differs school to school or state to state? I think it's based on school because everyone in your school did one thing. And so if you were doing something else, everybody would point it out or like make fun of you in a joking way. So everyone just kind of conformed to the one color. I guess everyone has laptops now. But when I was at school, we did have books we'd write in. But they weren't colored because we'd put Duracell on them. Do you have Duracell in America?

I don't even know. It's like a sticky pattern paper you'd seal over your books so they wouldn't get too dog-eared. So you'd tell what subject each book was for, whether your Duracell showed a pod of dolphins or a montage of sheep or whatever. I've also heard there's a space shuttle that blew up. What? A bombshell. The man went on, telling me a spaceship had blown up because someone forgot to convert from imperial into Metric, or vice versa. I had to find out more. So, I'm Omar. I majored in aerospace engineering.

That's what I was really excited about. I came to the university in the US, but I originally was born in Egypt, lived in Dubai. That's my background. So I've been used to the metric system. Omar, like me, was mystified by America's ways. Each day he missed the metric system. When someone says it's 100 degrees Fahrenheit, I'm like, that sounds hot. I don't know what that means. Like me, Omar is used to Celsius, part of the international system of units, that most recent version of the metric system. Zero degrees Celsius is freezing. 100 is boiling. Simple. Anyway, I'm talking to Omar because he's an aerospace engineer

and knows about the incident NASA would prefer to forget. No one likes to blame one person at NASA. Back on December 11, 1998, NASA launched the Mars Climate Orbiter, which cost about $125 million to build. It was a space probe that would be used to discover the secrets of the Martian climate. Now, NASA is smart. They use the metric system, like a lot of American scientists do. But that doesn't mean all of NASA's American suppliers did. They still have to work with suppliers that are going to supply your 1 16th inch bolts and whatnot. And you have one supplier, Lockheed Martin,

that's the main supplier that is basically what people like to point as a source of the error. They were supplying data in what makes sense to them, US customary units. And so when they look at those results, they're like, this makes sense. We're good to go. We can move forward to the next stage of the project. But no one actually went ahead and said, let's make sure that when we're integrating this into the system, into the full orbiter, let's actually make this communicate in metric. That was where this real source of error came in. Basically, the nav team at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory used the metric system while someone at Lockheed Martin in Colorado delivered very, very important information in pounds. And no one knew that. Uh-oh. They have to use little thrusters that push it

and rotate it back into the right orientation so that when it gets to Mars, it's in the orientation that they expect it to be. So those thrusters are giving you a force measurement and communicating that to the NASA team on the ground, mission control essentially, so that they can predict the trajectory. Those forces are in

pounds and they're assuming it's in newtons or, you know, mass times gravity constant. So that's where the connection failed. Some pounds were not converted to newtons per square meter and the Mars Climate Orbiter orbited too close to the Mars climate. The $125 million probe ignited in flames, exploded and was never heard from again. All because someone didn't convert something to metric. There are other examples. In 83, a Boeing 767 ran out of fuel mid-flight because someone messed up a metric conversion. Luckily for the passengers, the pilot was also an avid glider pilot,

and he glided that 767 100 kilometers to a landing strip. There are so many stories, medical mishaps where sedatives were given in grains and not grams. My point is, I started this journey to discover the origin of the S in maths. You could argue it was all a case of math hysteria, but I'd argue America's steadfastness in its grammar and units of measurements is no joke. Planes are running out of fuel and space shuttles are exploding in deep space. This is no laughing matter. Math, maths, pounds and square meters.

It's not hysteria. It's life and death. Did you find maths hysteria funny? I liked it. I missed it. It wasn't that I didn't think it was funny. I just heard Maths Hysteria. Sometimes when I'm playing these documentaries to you guys,

there's something I think's just out of genius. And I'm looking at what you're doing. And sometimes nothing. I feel devastated. Conversely, though, I'm losing my mind over some areas you probably didn't see coming. And I'm just crossing over completely. Yeah, like I had a couple huge

belly laughs that I don't think you saw coming. It's always a surprise. It's a rollercoaster. That's what making a show's all about. It's like playing the guitar and staring at the person you're playing for. That's basically what he's doing, which is a big trigger for you. I think he never looks. He's always like looking

Yeah, but you'd think that, but I'm occasionally going, bang. Oh, God. Flicking my little eyes out to see what's going on over there. Darting them to and fro. My eyes are darting around all over the place all the time. What an incredible story about the NASA thing. I've not heard that.

All because there was no conversion. I'm going to start asking pilots. Just making sure everything's been converted correctly. To liters. You're going to need a lot more liters than you need gallons. Yeah, the temperature thing here i agreed with oma so strongly about during the heat wave in los angeles people oh my god it's 100 120 and it's just like okay it's hot but everyone's so excited and it just makes no sense

to me and i don't think ever will because there's like a mental hurdle for us once we go to triple digits it means more but for you would be the difference between like 38 and 39 yeah completely or something like that yeah it just does not but that's not very that's not really emotional you know like it's emotional for us to yeah hit triple digits getting close to a hundred like everyone knows getting close to a hundred is big deal in general in latin imagine when we all become a. That would be such a big deal. I don't know what it was like when you were growing up, but we made a big push in the 80s. Everyone was like, we got to get on this metric system. And we had in my elementary, every year we'd have metric field day.

And so we had all these events on the playground. We had to fill up a bucket with six liters of water. Then you had to do the, you know, whatever it was, the 10 meter jump instead of the oh i love that you know everything was done in meters and milliliters to help us didn't work there was a real push to convert and i honestly think by the end of the 80s they were like you know fuck it it's not gonna happen it's not taking there was an earnest effort but also england's still using standard and we call it standard by the way instead of imperial whatever you were calling our imperial system yeah we call it standard right the other thing i want to say america i don't know

how much it affects your average person for me as someone who has a lot of tools and works on stuff it couldn't be more annoying i have two entirely different sets of tools. I have every single socket in standard, quarter inch, eighth inch, sixteenth inch, you know, three-quarter inch. And then I have everything in millimeters. Eight millimeter, ten millimeter, fourteen. And why are you swapping?

Because half the parts on the car, some are made in Japan with the metric system. Some are made here in the States with the standard system. But I'm going from motorcycle to motorcycle. And as you add aftermarket parts, you don't know where. So you're constantly as a mechanic, you're like, oh, that looks like it's a quarter. You go put it on there. It almost fits.

It doesn't. Oh, I think that's eight millimeter. You know, imagine making some sort of Mars orbiter and you're dealing with those sort of conversions just on a bike it would be crazy enough yes it reminds you of that amazing story with that commercial airliner there was a amazing documentary with bad special effects made about it but an engineer used a bolt the thread was just a tiny bit too small on the windscreen of this commercial liner oh boy and as the plane flying, it was up in the air, just doing its thing.

We're filled with hundreds of people on this plane. It wasn't a tiny plane, big plane. Windscreen comes off. Windshield, we call it, yeah. Gone. One of the pilots immediately gets yanked out with the pressure yanked out. No, yeah.

But someone else in the cockpit, I believe it was a steward who had come through just to check on things, had such lightning fast reactions. He grabbed their legs. No. And they basically landed the plane whilst the pilot was outside getting extreme frostbite freezing. At that speed, while the guy is getting frostbite from his hands just holding the guy's legs. And they landed that plane and everybody survived. No.

He was able to hold on with that force? He dislocated his shoulder while he was trying to hold on because there was just so much force going on. It's the best and worst great result airline disaster story I've ever heard about. Did somebody then hold on to his feet and somebody held, you know, it's like a big chain. Like a sandbag chain. Yeah. Scully gets all this attention.

This person deserves to be celebrated. I wrote about it on Web Room. With the show notes for this, I'll link to the story. It's an airline disaster that no one seems to know about, but it's the most incredible story I've ever heard. I read about one similar. It was a Hawaiian flight from one island to the other and on those hawaiian planes now i don't want to scare anyone but let's say your average

plane has 10 000 takeoffs and landings i don't know there's a very arbitrary number those island planes they may take off and land 14 times in a day right so a four-year-old plane they might have the equivalent of a 40-year-old plane to take off and land. Whatever. There was a structural failure and the top of the fuselage ripped off over a whole section

in the economy class. No. The top of the plane flew off? Yes. They were all of a sudden in a fucking convertible. And several people, same thing,

got ripped out immediately. That's why you always had to put your seatbelt on. But they did land that thing. Wow. After taking a convertible ride through the air. You think the whole thing

would just be impossible, right? The whole thing would just... The force. I think that's when you understand all the structural integrity is in the wings. Just too much use on that plane. Too many takeoffs.

So, ding, ding, ding. The pilots do need to know physics. Yes. So, they remember physics. Do you say? Physics. Yeah, we say physics. We agree.

Hey, this is a bridge. It also grows. The pace is restored. It goes to show, like, what are you focusing on? I mean, so much of the language we're speaking is identical. There's so much more to be happy about. There's only this handful of weird things. We should be celebrating our similarities, not the differences.

Although sometimes we should celebrate differences as well. Yes, of course. In the case of language. Don't take that out of context. 2022. Uh-oh. God, can't win. Lego. Lego.

Lego. That was really fun. I learned a lot. I did too. And what a turn it took with the whole metric system. That was thrilling. I will say also, I just want to add, I can do most of the conversions. I know 100 kilometers an hour, 60 miles an hour.

No, I can't do it at all. If you watch racing, you'd care more probably. Or if you were into going high speeds. You know that there's three feet in a meter. Yes. Right? Yeah. We can do most of these things.

It's the basics. A kilo is 2.2 pounds. We can multiply by 2.2. The conversion from Celsius to Fahrenheit is a fucking joke. It's like X minus 32 times 7 over 31. There's some bizarre, I think it's 30 degrees Celsius. 37.7 Celsius. Yeah, zero is 32, which is fine.

You go, oh, I just add 32. No, because 100 is 212. I know, I don't get that. You follow me? Zero is 32, but 100 is 212. So the formula to make both those things work is very complicated. Do you have it, Rob? Yeah.

Take the Fahrenheit amount minus 32 and then multiply it by five-ninths. Five-ninths. There we go. Five-ninths. Oh, my God. Obviously. I mean, I like the metric system. I'm happy to go for it, but I'd like to keep Fahrenheit because I like that you know 100 is extreme.

I like that part, too. Yeah, I like that. We can keep that. But think how much they must like. Like, for us, 32 is insignificant. It's stupid. No one gets pumped when it's like, oh, it's going to go to 31 tomorrow. Or like when it's my 32nd birthday.

Like, that's a boring birthday. But 100? Well, okay, still. But I want you to recognize that we gain something and we give up something. What we've gained is going to 100. 32nd birthday like that's a boring birthday but a hundred well okay still but i just wanted you to recognize that we gain something and we give up something what we've gained is going to 100 yeah it's awesome yeah it's cool so thrilling now going below 30 it's never on the news like we're gonna hit 31 tomorrow right like that's our freezing so we don't eventize freezing because it's 32 to 31 so important i guarantee in important. So I guarantee in Europe and everywhere, they're like, it's going to be negative one.

It's like, whoa, it's freezing. It's what we do in New Zealand on our weather. Okay. Whoa. Zero. Yeah. Yeah, but it means nothing to us 31. Yeah, you get excited about the heat.

We get excited about the extreme cold. But we live in Los Angeles. Freezing is not a thing. It's not for us. It's not for us. It's not for us. It's so hot here. Right. I'm suffering.

I'm always guzzling down this water. You just contradicted yourself. A minute ago, you were like, people were like, one on one. I'm like, it's a little hot. And now you're like, you're dying under the burden of this heat. Because he's becoming more American and Californian at that. Wow. Also, for someone who's complaining about the weather here so much, this motherfucker's been in shorts for like 300 of the last 310 days.

I don't think you could do that in New Zealand. I have a really weird thing where my legs never get cold, but my top half always does get cold. So I could be in shorts all the time and it's not a problem. My top and my bottom have different things going on. Oh, wow. You have different circulation? I also have one of those terrible things where I have really bad circulation to my hands.

So I'm nervous. My hand gets very cold. And that can be like a social nightmare having to shake hands and something. I'm always the cold, clammy hand. I remember one time I had to meet Jessica Rauber to interview her in New Zealand when I just started in a newsroom. And my hands went like cold fish. And I had to meet Jessica Rauber to interview her in New Zealand when I just started in a newsroom and my hands went like cold fish. And I had five minutes and I rushed into the urinal

and just started blasting my hands with hot water to try and get them up for Jess when she walked in. Oh, my gosh. What happened is that somehow it got worse than just being like a cold fish. It became sweaty and there were layers of it. So when she finally shook my hand, she got an initial very hot sweat and then she squeezed a bit

and I did a firm shake because I want to say I'm strong. Firm shake. Then I think she pushed through and could feel the under, the cold core temp of my hand, which was icicle-like. And I think I saw her,

I looked her sort of in the face. I knew it was going to be bad. But the look I got back is the one look you don't want to get from Jessica Alba, and it was disgust. The hand that I presented her was a mess. Fire and ice. Why am I saying this? Wow.

Sometimes David accidentally tells us secrets, and you have to take what you can get because he just refuses to share secrets. Back in the cage, you can know. No more secrets. All right. Am I more American? Slightly? Yeah, I think you are because now you're going to start saying math, and I'm going to start saying Lego.

We're going to meet in the middle. You're more Euro. He's more American. That's right. Love you guys. Love you. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Love you guys. Love you.