Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Flightless Bird: Movies

Episode Date: April 4, 2023

In this week’s Flightless Bird, David Farrier sets out to understand how Americans interact with movies. Motivated by watching Nicole Kidman’s heartfelt introduction before every movie at the AMC theater chain, Farrier sets out to understand the other big chains like Regal. How are these chains enticing people in the door? He finds that AMC has the Stubs A-List, and Regal has Regal Unlimited. Then Farrier talks to Stacy Spikes, the founder and brains behind MoviePass - a subscription service he started, then was kicked out of, then bought back again. Stacy’s new venture is rumored to monitor where your eyes are looking to see if you’re watching ads or not, prompting Farrier to ask “What?!” David also wants to understand how the smaller indie chains are competing and ends up talking to Tim League who started the Alamo Drafthouse chain. He talks about movie showmanship and muses on the state of the industry right now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I'm David Ferrier, a New Zealander accidentally marooned in America, and I want to figure out what makes this country tick. Now if it's one thing I love, and I've loved for as long as I can remember, it's been the movies. For me it all started when my mum and dad took me and my brother to see Jurassic Park in 1993. Pam, Alistair, Rob and me were transfixed. Me in particular. I think we probably all had movies that got under our skin as kids,

and Jurassic Park was mine. For others it'll be Ben-Hur or Gone with the Wind or E.T. For a lot of people, it'll be Avatar, the highest grossing film ever, over $3 billion taken at the box office. And number two, Avengers Endgame, followed by Titanic, and yes, Avatar 2. Star Wars The Force Awakens is in fifth place with just over $2 billion in global ticket sales. It's true. All of it. When you look at the biggest movies of all time, you can see how they're all American, and three of them are made by one American,

James Cameron, who's now very rich and weirdly lives in New Zealand. But my point is, the global box office is ruled by America, and now I find myself in America, I see the Hollywood sign looming down at me every other day. So, grab your popcorn and candy of your choice, and if it's Avatar, your 3D glasses, I guess, because this is the movies episode. What? Rob's already giggling at me over there? I'm giggling as well. Why are you giggling? I'm giggling because movies are so obviously not American.

Yeah. I mean. They are worldwide. That's right. They're everywhere. They're everywhere. They're not specific or proprietary to America. And so this is a bit of a stretch.

It is. Yeah. So I want to explain my topic choice here. Please do. This episode, I sort of want to explore what the movie experience is in America. The movie going experience. Because I think it's different to what it is like in New Zealand. There's different options.

There's different theaters. There's different ads in the theaters. There's more ads before the movie plays here i was thinking back to when i was living in whangarei when i was 11 watching jurassic park and so much of my world view has been directly affected by american movies so so strongly jurassic park got me interested in movies and i think if you went through like the steps that my brain went through and what i ended up doing i don't think I'll be here now if it wasn't for watching Jurassic Park. I got excited by Jurassic Park. I was like, wow, maybe I want to work in

the movies one day. Then I got obsessed, properly obsessed with Jeff Goldblum. And then the first time I came to America, which was a very long time ago, I specifically went to see Jeff Goldblum play jazz in a jazz bar. The reason for me coming to America was all informed by being excited about movies. Wait, you came to America just to see him doing jazz? Not just to see Jeff Goldblum. Not just, but it was one of the top reasons that I was excited. Also, going on the jurassic park ride at universal that's literally what i did on day one in america back in probably 2002 ish you don't not look like

jeff goldblum oh that's the nicest thing i've ever said i can see your resemblance there's a photo i got of us at that jazz show both staring at each other i'm wearing my jurassic park t-shirt that i got in 1993 i knew i was going to still be obsessed with it so i bought a large size even though i was a child you were thinking and years later here i am in america with jeff staring at him whilst wearing a jurassic park. That's very heartwarming. Do you think he was like, oh, no. He's rolling his eyes. I'm sick of it. Jurassic Park.

Just another obsessed fan. He's not here for my jazz. He's here because of fucking Jurassic Park. But my point is, movies, in my mind, are so American. Like, obviously, China's making movies. Russia's making movies. Korea's making movies. But-

India. India is making oh my god one of my favorite films of the last decade yeah indian but i guess in my mind culturally america and movies are just everywhere you're right and i heard from i guess multiple people they credit well one person i know who's australian so not too far from me from you but he does such a good american accent and he credits american movies and television to that he said the reason that europeans and other people can do such good american accents is because they were exposed to american i think i started doing an american accent when I got obsessed with friends for a while,

like in school. Who were you being? Ross. Yes, that's so lame. Even though now I think Ross is hot. I can do an American accent later. It's pretty good. Yeah, we're going to end on that.

So I went out into the streets and I asked Americans, what do movies mean to you? Like, what has your movie going experience been like and this is what people said honestly every time at AMC is a great experience so give me a free membership please um and then a Cole Kidman one where she comes up yeah she's like because here at AMC like we make movies better or something like that fucking love Nicole Kidman I mean I was fine with the movies but then I heard that the movies have bedbugs and, like, tics. Yeah, apparently that is very common. I was watching Bruno when it came out,

and the reel melted, like, right in the middle of the movie, and everyone there was pissed, and it was semi-riot, and then we got angry. Oh, yeah, because we were, were like three-fourths of the way through so we had sat that long just to be disappointed i fell asleep when star wars premiered which i was embarrassed about but i went to the midnight premiere so it was my mistake i sort of realized the only reason i went to the movies is because i didn't really want to hang out with the person i was hanging out with so we just watched a movie instead and then called it a day.

So then I just gradually stopped going to the movies. Are you still friends with that person? Oh, no. Yeah, I was like, yeah, this is probably a sign that it's not going to work out. New Beverly Cinema, I was there. I was going to see a Jennifer Jason Leigh double feature. I was watching the film. There was nobody in the theater. All of a sudden, this large man walks in

and sits two seats away from me, and I thought, okay, maybe that's his spot. Then I start feeling this weird sensation on the side of my leg that takes me a long time to realize it's his finger. I thought it was like an air unit or something. I thought it was going to be a funny story that's actually horrific.

I'm so sorry. This man put his jacket between us and put his arm through the sleeve and was taking his finger and ever so slightly grazing my thigh as soon as i realized it was his finger i just like froze and looked at him and he just picked up his coat and he left oh my god pervert awful movie going experiences best and worst for you, Monica. Are there any that jump out? Because for me, I love going to the movies so much. I do it a lot here.

And there can be good times and bad times. Good times and bad times. Hearing all those people really got my wheels turning about the movies and how connected it really is to childhood. Oh my God, yes. There's so many parts of it like in my high school and middle school you would on friday nights go to the movie theater everyone in the school if you were cool oh you went to the movies yes but you would just stand outside the movie theater you

wouldn't go in and see a movie what you just gather yes and what would you do just talk and gossip and then there are clicks for you know you're jumping from group to group do they have What you just gather Yes And what would you do? Just talk and gossip And then there are clicks You know, you're jumping from group to group Do they have video games you'd play and stuff? No, we just stood there We all stood there Except for, there was one exception

When Bring It On came out Everyone decided to actually get tickets Like the whole, if you're cool You went to the movie You thought, we're here every Friday night. We're going to take that step and we're going to go and see a movie. Yes. And everyone got tickets, but the cool kids obviously got tickets first because they are

the ones that made that plan. And then it trickled down, right? So by the time it trickled down to me, Bring It On was sold out. So I had to see Coyote Ugly. That was second tier. It's still cool people. Great film. Did you have any friends to go with?

Or was it just you at that point alone in Coyote Ugly? No, I was second tier. There was a lot of us in Coyote Ugly. It was the next best thing. And there was probably a third tier and a fourth tier, but I didn't know about those people. Oh, that's very, very funny. So, bring it on. And people were in the

aisles. Yeah, it would be crazy. People were making out. You know, it was that time where this person would be making out in the movies with that person. So, that was really exciting. That's a great experience. One of my worst was last year. Top's a great experience. One of my worst was last year. Top Gun.

Great film. Incredible film. Really hyped up. What happened? How could that be a bad experience? What could have happened? So you guys, especially you, hyped up the film so much. And so Jess and I decided to see it At Daxaw in Man's Chinese Theatre

And recommended that So we got tickets We go, we rush in, we sit down And all of a sudden our seat starts vibrating And I just snapped my head over to Jess What's going on here? Is someone kicking our seat? What's happening?

Yeah. It was 4D. Oh. And. I love this for you. As, you know, the movie starts and it's like a plane. So you're getting like, like reclined back, shaking like you're in fucking turbulence. I was like, this is the last way I want to watch this movie.

See, this is kind of what this episode's about the american movie going experience we don't have 4d theaters in new zealand i mean this is my first this is for me this is a nightmare like this is the worst way you could most distracting awful way you could watch a movie so awful and it would then it would stop and then start again so you never knew when you were going to get jostled i have not laughed that hard in probably the last five years we were laughing so hard and then a fight started to break out this gets better was this part of the 4d experience or this is just separate maybe that actors come in at some tense moments that would

have been so smart no i looked at justin Justin. I said, we got to go. And he was like, yeah. Okay, I've got another question for you then around this. Because I'm really curious about theater etiquette. If something's going wrong in there, you know, maybe the bulb's too dim and you can't see the picture right. Maybe there's a fight. Do you just sit there and do nothing? Or will you go out and get an usher? Or do you just leave?

Or would you ever tell someone off in the theater if they're talking too loudly oh this is so interesting okay because this is just personality based 100 i would never say anything to someone who was talking too loudly but i would just like give bad eyes evil the evil eye evil eye them i would be hard in the cinema because it's so dark it's true but i would like look over and just like have a mean face yeah tell them telepathically to shut the fuck up theater rage theater rage but i i wouldn't ever stand up or say anything which a lot of people would do i also am sorry to say if if something were happening, I don't think many staff and so there's not really even anyone kind of keeping an eye on things so i find it fascinating you go in there you're sealed in

in the old days they'd have a projectionist running each projector and like checking that everything's okay now i assume it's all basically digital and it all just goes off automatically you're sealed in there no one gives a shit no you're nodding your head they're still fine well i worked in a movie theater for three four years after high school yeah how long ago was that 12 years ago it was before we went digital like i left right as they had added one of our 16 was digital the craziest thing that happened to you when you were working at theater i mean there was a people would shit in the theater and oh god Oh, God. That's happened. And you didn't have to clean it. I didn't have to clean it up.

Oh, that poor staff that has to clean up. Yeah, it's such an interesting thing. You're sealed in this room and it can be chaos in there. Or it can be a really good experience. There was a drug deal once, too. That was. Wow. Well, I heard a rumor, just like this person heard about bed bugs.

I heard that there are razors in the seats from gang members. The gang members would put razors. Those naughty gang members out there with their razor blades. I was so scared of gangs. And so I, to this day, it's just a habit at this point, but you always check the seat before you sit down because they're hoping for some naive ch check the seat before you sit down because they're they're hoping for some naive chump to walk in sit down get razored on your ass i guess the worst place to

get raised yeah because then there's aids in there that's right oh my there was every that never happened in our theater amazing yeah i mean there are certain theaters that aren't good but i think ticks aren't a big thing but i imagine there's the occasional theater that would have something terrible razor blades probably never but an amazing rumor to be going around i mean we didn't the seats weren't cleaned yeah oh there's a reason it's dim in there right occasionally they were cleaned but yeah i walked into a theater one time and the lights were fully all up and those seats were they were nasty like it's pretty bad you know what i'm jealous of i'm jealous that you you saw your favorite movie in the movie theater my favorite movie i didn't see in the movie theater ever because i found it late

go hunting so it was like a vhs dvd kind of a number what was the first film you saw in a theater if i was jurassic park did it make an impact? I think it was maybe Beauty and the Beast. I remember my mom took me to something and it was a Disney movie. And I want to say it was Beauty and the Beast. I don't know if that was the first one. Also, my dad took me to Dennis the Menace. Those are the two early memories I have.

See, going with your parents is a big nostalgia thing. Yes. Obviously, I went with My mum and my dad And my brother To Jurassic Park That was like the ultimate My dad took me To one of the alien films

And that was One of our best I still remember Being excited Going to see an alien film On the big screen With my dad Oh bonding

And then he also Took me to a festival film Etamamatambion Which was Oh yes Which was Full on Like at one point

There were a couple of dudes masturbating into the pool and i'm sitting there next to my dad i don't know i was oh the age where it was embarrassing which i'd say is any age to be sitting next to your dad in the theater where like a lot of sex is happening yeah but you know he took me and that was really nice and that was the director who went on to make like roma and gravity and all that stuff so that was rated r went on to make like Roma and Gravity and all that stuff. And that was rated R. See, ratings is an interesting thing because they're different here, right? Ratings in America are different to New Zealand. In New Zealand, it's GM for mature, R16. We have to be 16, R18. Here you've got this weird thing where you've got R, but then one up above that is NC-17.

Yeah. Which is worse than an R. But they don't really show, like, AMC won't have an NC-17 movie. They just won't play them. There's not that many NC-17s. To be clear, those are ones where unless you are 17 or over, you can't go, even if a parent is with you. Right? Actually, I don't even know.

I think R you can go if you've got a parent nc17 you've got to be 17 or you're out the door they're particularly like but r is 18 so that's weird isn't it with a parent 17 and older i believe so i thought it was like adult or with an adult let me have a look here we need to check So R is restricted Under 17 requires accompaniment by a parent or guardian NC 17 Adults only 17 Or you're not admitted

Okay, so both 17 But one is about parents or not Okay NC 17 is fascinating to me We don't have that Wow But you don't have PG 13 No

Just PG Just G Which may be We've got G Oh, I'm confused now Look, we've got g oh i'm confused now look we've got g i think we do have a pg yeah and then we've got an m and then r16 r18 and what's m like what a mature a little test when you walk in there like swearing is it swearing is it nudity because america if there was nudity it was going to be r straight away yeah america you don there was nudity, it was going to be R. Straight away. Yeah. You don't like nudity, do you here? That's like a big bad, bad.

And swearing. PG-13 was language. Right. And violence is fine, though, in America, I find. Exactly. That's a weird thing. It's very fucked up. Anyway, I'm going to play you my little documentary.

I went to learn about the culture of American theaters. to learn about the culture of American theaters. We come to this place for magic. One of my favorite things about becoming stranded in America is getting to watch this weird pre-movie message from Nicole Kidman whenever you go to an AMC theater. It's so utterly deranged in how earnest it is, her words have become seed into my brain for all eternity. Dazzling images on a huge silver screen. Sound that I can feel. Somehow, heartbreak feels good in a place like this. But as silly as it is, it did get me thinking about movies.

And how, well, American they are. Well, the French birth cinema as we know it today. America soon jumped on board in the early 1900s. Hollywood built the first film studios and production companies. And birthed genres like comedy, romance, horror, sci-fi and action. And America not only embraced making movies, but the idea of the importance of sitting down in a theatre to watch them. I wanted to understand America's movie-going experience. but the idea of the importance of sitting down in a theater to watch them.

I wanted to understand America's movie-going experience, so I needed to talk to someone who lives and breathes movies. I studied engineering and I got a job at Shell Oil as a facilities engineer. I hated that job. I was 24 and I regretted my education and I was looking for other things to do, kind of anything. And on my way to work, there was an abandoned movie theater. There was a for lease sign on the movie theater. And literally a week later, I was like, I'll sign the lease and figure it out.

So that's how I began. Back in 1997, Tim League opened a cinema in Austin, Texas. The Alamo Drafthouse was born. Tim was young and had no idea what he was doing, but he loved the movies. What other choice did he have? I did analyze, like, okay, I'm 24. I don't have kids. I'm not married. The worst case scenario is bankruptcy. That's not really that bad. So just go for it. Just do it. I was also arrogant and a bit stupid. And so those are really powerful if you pair those up together that he's like, ah, I can do plan worked and that one cinema turned into two then three then four and so on

tim's theaters also have a feature that doesn't really exist back in new zealand you can order food and drinks to your seat while the movie's playing as in dinner cocktails chocolate shakes cookies it's all just delivered straight to your seat It's what sets it apart from the three other giant cinema chains in the US. In America, you know, we've got AMC, Regal and Cinemark, and they, between them, they control 20,000 screens in the United States, right? And so they're the behemoths. And what happened in most of their growth, Regal in particular, is like an aggregation. So like small mom and pop theaters or chains or circuits that had got into it for a love of the game and a love of movies and showmanship all the marketing got concentrated in its one voice and it's generic and it's bland it's the starbucks effect the major

chains all feeling the same same advertising same vibe same experience then there are the art house indie theaters spread across the United States. Tim estimates there are about 500 of them. And then there's his cinema chain. We're in this weird hybrid where we're 39 locations. We've got 300 screens. We're undeniably a chain. And yet I hate chains. I never go to chains because they suck. I'm constantly like my primary job is like, oh, please just make sure we don't suck. And I'm neurotic about it. Tim loves the showmanship of movies, the art of marketing them in a compelling way, spreading the word, building hype. He started this thing called the Rolling Road Show, where they take a fully mobile projection rig out on the road.

The very first one we ever did was actually my wife's idea. first one we ever did was actually my wife's idea. We did a canoe trip down the river to a screening of Deliverance, where we had like a whole pig roast by the side of the river. And it just ended up being really special to immerse yourself in the scene and the feeling and make a dumb, you know, sodomy joke and eat pig and it's just felt right. As I think about Deliverance and all the other American films I've watched over the years, I realize they've shaped the way I see this country. Everything I know about America I mostly learned from films. The American film industry probably shapes how a lot of the world sees America. I think it's fucking massive. It's not just American cinema, but just this American concept. I think about how America was largely populated,

I think about how America was largely populated. And it's this crazy genetic leap of ballsy risk takers that defied death. And they left the people that would never take the ocean voyage behind and ended up here. And it's not everybody, obviously. It's a big melting pot. There's tons of different influences and cultures and reasons why people are here. But it's a significant amount of people that are like, screw it, come into America. And I think that there's an unstoppable force. But there's so many people here. It's like, well, time to take out 20 credit cards. Time to ask my dad to mortgage his house because I'm making a movie because this is just what I was born to do. And it feels to me like that's a very American sensibility that's been around. and we take pride in it. And that is part of the being an American in general, but it's obviously being a part of an American filmmaker. So I think there's a lot of that. Of course, a lot of people are worried about the future of cinema and the act of going to the movies.

Streaming was a big game changer. And from what I can tell, a bunch of people seem more enthusiastic about TikTok and YouTube over going to a movie theater and turning their phone off. But Tim reckons it's not that black and white. I'm not too terribly worried about this idea that all content has to be hyper-paced and bite-sized because I'm a dad. I've got 11-year-old girls and they're constantly exploring and learning. And I think they've got a more sophisticated mind than I did when I was 11. I was still feeling like I was drooling at 11.

And they have complex thoughts and they love long form narrative. So there's that. It's just a different type of apple to orange story that you're absorbing in the cinema. But there is a true emotional response to reacting collectively to something, whether it's awkwardness, uncomfort, humor, or the combination of both, or terror. It's palpable in a group. And there's the benefit of having the sanctuary in a darkened space where all electronics are off and there is no multitasking and you are dedicated and deeply focused on absorbing and losing yourself in a story.

You can't do that on your phone. You can't do that on a laptop. You can't do that in a social environment. So it's special and I love it. So how do you feel about the theater going experience? Because I get really ultra religious about it and it has to be phones off. If I'm taking friends, I tell them their phone's gonna go off if i see them texting through trailers i'll be like that shit's going off when the movie starts i get that i i'm a no phone i don't think i turn it off but i put it on silent and i put it in my purse because you know what it's like when you see a screen glowing at you from a row ahead right yeah hellish okay so you so you take it seriously of course okay yeah i respect

the movie going experience i love it i mean it is so special how do you decide if you're going to watch something at home streaming or on demand or something or go to a cinema how do you balance that up because that's the big sort of world we're in now here right exactly nowadays I feel like it is, I hate to say it, it's hard to get me to a movie theater. Yeah, this is interesting. It has to be something that feels fairly epic. I saw Glass Onion in the movie theater. Okay, yeah. I loved it. Which is an interesting model because that was released in cinemas for like this week of a window.

Exactly. So you didn't have long to see it and then suddenly it was on netflix which you could see anywhere obviously yeah but i loved the original knives out and i saw the original knives out in the movie theater so i think i had some weird connection to that because i loved it so much that i really wanted to repeat it i really have a huge life regret they should re-release it. Everything, everywhere, all at once. I regret not seeing that in the movie theater so bad.

Oh my goodness, yeah. And Triangle of Sadness. I'd like to think since it swept out all those awards at the Oscars, it will come back again, surely. I did get to see it at Dax and Kristen's. They have a theater downstairs. A little mini theater? Oh, that sort of counts.

But it doesn't, because there is something about the shared experience the stinky seats yeah just being packed in with like hundreds of other people yes i saw rrr which is my favorite action film that and top gun are like the two big ones for me but i saw that in an imax and it was ballistic it's very different watching that in an IMAX screen with people that are enthusiastic to watching it badly dubbed on Netflix at home. It's like a very different thing. Everything Everywhere All At Once is playing right now.

Where? Everywhere. Alma, AMC Americana, TLS, the Chinese Theater. Going. Going. Great. You've got to do this. This is really important.

So when you go to a cinema here, what defines where you go? Do you like ones where they bring you food at the seat? Do you just go to one that's like an IMAX? What's the thing for you? This is a sore subject because my favorite LA movie theater is now closed, Arclight.

Gone. And that was devastating for so many people in L.A. Arclight was a real institution. It was beautiful. There was a dome, and they closed it, and that's really sad. But Regal is my home theater. You're a Regal. Interesting.

In Atlanta, it's Regal. I don't think I've been to a Regal. Oh, they're great. And they have this roller coaster at the beginning with candy that pops up. An extra roller coaster. And you put your hands up. Well, it's a video. What?

But it's like the- You put your hands up? Yes, it's for fun. Oh, like a pre-show sort of experience, right? Yes. So it's like, okay, I see. And they tell you to strap in and then put your hands up and you go, whoa, and then candy's popping up and it's really fun. And then candy's popping up.

It's really fun. Okay, Regal. Okay, this is good to know. And yours is what? I alternate between the draft house and an AMC theater. I've never done a draft house. They're really good. It's the best.

It's a good vibe. It's the best, yeah. Tim knows what he's doing. They curate special little, like if you go to Magic Mike, they'll play clips from all his old movies beforehand, for instance. That's cool. And just having stuff brought to your seat is really beautiful. Also, some people don't like it, though. They'll be like, I don't want the smell of some delicious chicken.

So every person has their own things about the theatre experience that they love and hate. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors flightless bird is brought to you by indeed now what's better than finding quality candidates finding them instantly for a powerful hiring partner you need indeed it's the platform where you can attract interview and hire all in the one place. You don't spend hours on multiple job sites looking for a candidate with the right skills when you can do it all with Indeed.

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product I use literally every day. It's called AG1 and I get up in the morning, I mix it into a cup of water, I drink it, it's delicious and I know it's what I need to get my day started right. I'm someone that doesn't have the most wonderful diet in the world, so I know that this is something I'm doing that's really good for my body and my well-being. It's the best option for easy optimal nutrition out there. You take one scoop of AG1 and you're absorbing 75 high quality vitamins, minerals, whole foods, or superfoods, probiotics, and adaptogens to help you start your day right. I just gave a couple of travel packs to a friend the other day because they'd never tried it and they now love it too. Right now it's time to reclaim your health and arm your immune system with convenient daily nutrition. It's just

one scoop and a cup of water every day. That's it. There's no need for a million different pills and supplements to look out for your health. To make it easy Athletic Greens is going to give you a free one-year supply of immune-supporting vitamin D and five free travel packs with your first purchase. All you have to do is visit athleticgreens.com slash flightless. Again, that's athleticgreens.com slash flightless to take ownership over your health and pick up the ultimate daily nutritional insurance. In this next part of the doc, I speak to a couple of people, but there's one guy that I talked to, Stacey Spikes, and it'll become apparent why soon. But I just want to explain how cool this guy is by just reading out a couple of stats from his history. 1986, he worked at Motown Records. He was the product

manager for Boyz II Men, Stevie Wonder, Spike Lee, Queen Latifah, Eddie Murphy. 1990, he joined Sony Music and worked on feature film soundtracks for Jungle Fever and Bad Boys. And 94, he was VP of marketing at Miramax and worked on films like The Crow and Scream. I just love all these things about him. So when he pops up in the doc, just remember that because I think Stone Cold legend. The Angelica Theatre, which is a lovely little indie theatre, but it's right down there by the subway. And every time you go there, you'll hear the subway cars going through quiet indie movies davindra hardaway does a film podcast i love called the film cast he lives and breathes film and we've been talking

about some of his american movie going experiences there's also a clear crowd of local old folks who just go there to nap during the afternoon i can always always bet that somebody's going to be snoring through some sort of A24 indie movie or something. It's hard to explain it, but seeing movies in America is different to how we do it in New Zealand. For one thing, everything's bigger. The size of the drinks and popcorn, even the seating, it's all bigger. But Devendra reckons one element is getting too big. The pre-show ads and trailers before the movie.

When I go to the theater, I give like like a 20 minute buffer after my show time because you know they're going to be playing trailers they're going to be playing commercials for stuff you don't care about then there's going to be like the intro to the theater all that stuff at the very least 20 minutes before your movie starts i thought maybe it was just me but yeah there's so much extra stuff they play before the actual movie here in america and everyone just kind of accepts it. We've just been kind of forced into this situation where we go pay $10 for a soda, another $10 for popcorn, and then have to sit through their ads. And I think something about that situation has to change,

especially if they want people to keep coming back. They have to offer something new, and they can't just keep nickel and diming people all the time. Devinder says a lot of cinemas now have subscription services to entice people to keep coming back. AMC has the Stubbs A-list, and Regal has Regal Unlimited. But Devinder said that's all thanks to one company called MoviePass. Started back in 2011, MoviePass meant you'd get a monthly MoviePass, which would let you see up to one movie a day for one flat fee. MoviePass started as a very niche thing.

Most people probably don't remember. In its first form, you had to print out a voucher and bring the voucher to theater and be like, oh, this says I have a ticket. Just give me a ticket. And at a lot of theaters, it involved just begging and pleading. During this whole process, movie theaters were fighting tooth and nail to stop MoviePass.

They hated all of this. I believe AMC completely rejected even working with that debit card. So early on, it was a big fight between MoviePass and the theater chains. Lo and behold, now the theater chains all have subscription services because you kind of have to. MoviePass started this whole trend. I've never heard of MoviePass till now, but looking into it, the company has a bonkers story as charismatic founder Stacey Spikes getting pushed out by the very company he founded. I called Stacey to find out what happened to his dream of revolutionising the way we get to the cinema. Yeah, it's been a wild journey and a wild story, and I don't think you could make it up.

It's been unbelievable. Stacey Spikes founded MoviePass 12 years ago, growing it from absolutely nothing into a booming business. Then MoviePass was acquired by an analytics company in 2017. But the CEO of the analytics company, Ted Farnsworth, and the new CEO of MoviePass, Mitch Lowe, really messed it all up. So they came in and part of the deal was they said, stole up. So they came in and part of the deal was they said, let's drop the price to $10 and get a bump in subscriber growth. Let's add a hundred thousand people. Okay. And we figured it would take a few months and a hundred thousand people joined in 48 hours. And so it was like, great, turn it off. And they were like, no, look how good. This is fantastic.

Look how fast people are joining. And I said, you can make it $5 and they'll join even faster. That's not the point. We can't fly the plane at that price point. And they're like, we know what we're doing. So we were adding a quarter of a million new subscribers every month, but we were losing $30 on every person at a $10 price point.

By the time we were approaching Christmas, we were approaching a million people and I was jumping up and down going, there's no way this is going to work. We either need to raise the price or we got to turn this off. And they said, you know, you don't seem to support us and what we're trying to do you're fired and you're off the board i couldn't believe and they did it through an email stacy got kicked out back in 2018 and the company plowed ahead with wooing as many customers as possible with that ten dollars a month deal essentially ten dollars a month for unlimited movies its Its new leaders were banking

on customers not taking full advantage of MoviePass, but they did. So MoviePass' new overlords did a bit of a bait and switch, changing the terms and conditions. They also actively just mess with people who were using MoviePass too much, like forcibly resetting the passwords of its most active users and making it hard for them to get back online. Long story short, they went out of business. They went through about a quarter of a billion dollars in under a year and boom, it was all gone overnight. And I watched something that took 13 years to build, gone in less than 13 months. This should have been the death of MoviePass, but Stacey Spikes did something very American a few years ago.

He bought his company back again. So I called up the bankruptcy attorneys. I made a low bid and I bought it back for $140,000. Stacey says he launched a waiting list earlier this year. More than 30,000 people signing up in the first 30 minutes. And then in just over four days, they had 800,000 people sign up just to be on the waiting list. It was good news for Stacey, while it was nothing but bad news for the people that ran his company into the ground. And while all of this was happening, the federal court passed down indictment charges against those two guys.

passed down indictment charges against those two guys. And they're looking at some serious time for what they did during the demise of MoviePass. The MoviePass story got so crazy, Mark Wahlberg's company is making a TV doc series out of it. Stacey is involved in helping tell that story, a story that isn't over yet. When you look at Henry Ford, his first attempt at Ford Motor Company failed. And if you look at Steve Jobs, he in a sense failed and got fired from his company. When you look at Michael Dell, I think in the spirit of don't give up, keep trying, you never know what happens if you just keep showing up. Stacey is now experimenting with a bunch of other ideas,

including figuring out how to make watching all those ads before the movie worth your while. Our attention is a commodity, and it's the number one most traded, valued asset in the world. And where I think this needs to go is if I'm going to watch your ads, I need to get paid for that. And I want to be compensated for my time versus you're going to sell my data and my attention to other people and I don't have any say so over it.

So he's experimenting with something called pre-show interactive, which would use your phone's eye-tracking technology to make sure you're watching the ads. If you watch, you get points that go towards free movies. If you don't watch, that's okay, but no points. DaVinder is watching this technology with curiosity. I could see it being a thing. It's creepy.

It's super dystopian, but we also know people love free stuff. People love free movies and free TV shows. If you go to the Roku channel, which is on every Roku device, that is one of the most popular ways for people to watch movies because they just sit through a couple ads and they get to watch whatever they want. It's a big money generator for Roku. So I think a lot of companies are looking to like, what can you gain from making people watch ads, basically. As for me, there's one ad I'll always watch every time. Nicole Kidman got $20 million for making it. So I imagine she likes it, too.

Regal has its own startup movie promo, which is not as fun, not as iconic, but Danny Trejo is in it. So sure, maybe these chains can have a little more fun at this point. But it is funny, the Nicole Kidman thing was, I believe, i believe just totally earnest we love the movies we want to honor the movies nicole kidman's here telling you to love the movies and the audience just like had fun with it i think that's probably the best possible outcome they could have hoped for and stories feel perfect and powerful because here they are when i go to am now, when she says that, people get up and cheer and clap and it's kind of magical. It's become its own force of nature. Yeah, it's really special. It got its own joke at the

Oscars. Yeah, completely right. And that was all organic and yeah, apparently $20 million and we've got a sequel coming. There's going to be another ad. Oh shit, and I bet she's going to be another ad. Oh, shit. And I bet she's going to get like 50 for that. Because it has to be her. It's got to be her. Oh, it can be no one else. She's got to be in an empty cinema

talking earnestly about how good the movies are. Stacey Spikes has a book about all that called Black Founder. And it's going to be a show apparently as well. But the MoviePass story is so batshit. The idea of him starting this thing other people taking it over running it into the ground and then he goes and buys it back and this technology he's working on with the idea that your phone is going to track what ads you're

watching so it knows whether you're watching or whether you're talking to your friend that's kind of wild i am so mixed on that it does seem interesting and i could see it really going places but ew i just don't like the idea of that kind of that level of monitoring but if you get free movies for watching ads you know it knows if you're lying gonna do to the movie industry from what i can tell that the idea when it was originally pitched was that you're sitting in your theater, the ads are on, your phone's on. Maybe you're watching them on your phone screen, that's part of it. And if your eyeballs are on there the whole time, then you get points. But how does a movie theater runs because you buy tickets?

Yeah. So who's going to maintain? Well, that's like the question with something like MoviePass and all these loyalty things. It's this balance of how many times will you go to the cinema and will that balance out with how many people are actually paying. Most of what a theater is making money on is the concessions and the studios making money on the tickets. And that's why that Coke and popcorn is so frigging insane. They don't make any money on the tickets. I think it's like pretty minuscule really

and they're also renting the film right from the studios too it's a batshit landscape out there it is at the movies and also we're facing that thing now where you go to a cinema and if there's a marvel film out it'll mostly just be that Marvel film. Yeah. Which is why these smaller theaters like Alamo are so fun because they're actually playing other stuff. Yeah. We didn't talk about when we were talking about our etiquette, our theater etiquette. But this doc reminded me that I am a hundred percent. You have to get there by the trailers. You have to arrive by the trailers and you have to watch all of them.

And I love trailers. Trailers, I do love. I will put that thing in there now where the trouble with some trailers is they're giving away too much. That's the one risk now. Because I love trailers. I'm obsessed with trailers. But there's a few I've watched and I'm like, I'm pretty sure I know the major beats from that film now. And I hope i forget

it by the time i see it that's the only danger well my best friend callie and i used to just watch on apple trailers just watch trailers just all day we would just watch those we'd send each other trailers i feel like we've come out of that a little bit although the wakanda trailer i feel like oh that was a trailer. It was so good. Just the music through that trailer and how it changes and shifts is so... Incredible. And that was a great trailer. That didn't give away too much

plot. And that was the perfect trailer. Do you remember the Hills Have Eyes trailer? I do. It was the Devendra Banhart song and they were just dragging a body and the camera was just from the body as it camera was just from the body as it was being like dragged through the desert there's such an art to it there really is my favorite trailer was sweet november i don't know that one it was a love story death story

keanu reeves i think maybe charlie's yeah i think r Rosenbaum's in that movie too Oh my god He's like the drag queen neighbor The trailer's a 10 10 out of 10 The film? Negative 4 I mean that movie Sorry Rosenbaum And sorry Charlize

Lauren Graham's in it It is so bad And I remember That was the first time That I felt betrayed By a trailer. Yeah, ripped off. Yes.

There was, and I don't have this at the forefront of my brain, but some people sued recently because there was a trailer that came out. When the film came out, they'd cut one of the actors out. It was a really minor part, but they were in the trailer and a court rules in their favor essentially that this can go through to trial what where essentially a movie company can't mislead you in the trailer no and that everything in the trailer has to be in the film what and so this is currently i understand before the courts now and so for instance if the judge ends up ruling that this has to be a thing that the trailer has to reflect exactly what's in the movie, then that Barbie trailer, have you seen the Barbie trailer? No.

It's highly stylized and essentially the trailer starts on just a giant doll. I auditioned for that, so triggered. Oh no, amazing. It starts with this giant doll. Okay. It's like a stylistic thing in the trailer. Yeah. That won't be allowed if this gets ruled on

It has to be exactly what's in the film It's the only things that can be in the trailer So all those beautiful trailers you think of And there are some really good examples of them Where it's like an art piece Yes Unto itself The Candyman, for the new Candyman film

That trailer was all beautifully artfully done With stuff that wasn't in the film That'll be out. Wait, what the fuck? Why? I mean, these guys were just being assholes. They were just suing to make a point. We have too much real shit to be doing in our court system.

Then deciding if the stuff in the trailer has to match the stuff in the movie. I could not agree more. It's ridiculous and over the top and so silly. It's Ana de Armas. She was the one that was in the trailer for the movie yesterday, the Ed Sheeran movie. Wait, hold on. Did he make the movie?

He was in it. Oh. Yeah, so these, I think there were two of them. They went there. 2019, two film buffs. And they felt ripped off that they'd seen this actor in the trailer. They weren't in the film, so they sue. Ding, ding, ding ding american suing go back and listen to the suing episode because yeah it is pretty crazy

only in america could you do that it was over it was over three dollar 99 cent rental not even that they went to the movie theater and bought 15 tickets or whatever they're annoyed that they rented it so dumb and but also like it's really serious obviously it hasn't been dismissed yeah if that gets ruled on in their favor then it literally will change the tools that people have to make trailers to sell their film and all these techniques and other ways of making them will just be like thrown out the window and creative space it is genuinely it's, but it's also kind of terrifying. Yes, I do not like this. Yeah, America.

Sam I am. Wait, how many movies did you watch during those four years? I saw everything that came out. Because I would build the movies and then we'd have to watch them, sometimes multiple times. I started hating every mainstream movie that came out. Yeah, just be on too much. I'd have to go to like the art house theater and find the weird stuff because I would just get sick of everything. Now, something I found out about Rob that he may have talked to you about is that he has a really unique thing where he loves theater popcorn so much that he will go and buy theater popcorn to take home when he's watching something at home. I do that all the time. I didn't know that.

AMCs aren't Postmates right now. And what I love, I was with him when he did this. He goes up to a cinema and just buys a big tub of popcorn and no movie ticket, and it freaked them out. Wait, hold on, hold on. They don't know what to do. They're like, do you want it to end? And Rob's like, no, just the popcorn.

And like, no, what movie are you seeing? He's like, no, just the popcorn. It was wild. You just go and pick up the popcorn. And like, no, what movie are you seeing? It's like, no, just the popcorn. Wait. That was wild. You just go and pick up the popcorn? You don't see a movie? No. So something that I also haven't worked in a theater is I have confidence of how the actual theater runs.

So I know that the usher's not going to care if you're just like, I'm going to go buy some concessions. Yeah, but to your point, Monica, that's the point. He just goes in to buy the popcorn just to take home. As if you're going to the grocery store. Yeah. Whoa. But it's like the Los Feliz. The Los Feliz three, that's two and a half blocks away. They do a great popcorn.

They do. And I'm with Rob on that. I've just never considered doing it before. In my mind, it's like you have to see the movie. But no, you can treat your cinema like a supermarket. This is brand new information. I didn't know that about Rob and i didn't know that was a thing although dax and i did post mates a movie theater popcorn once oh okay so that's another level up yeah amc who did the buckets

and icing yeah wow can you tell us a little bit about new zealand and the difference. Also, I want to shout out Taika. Taika? Taika. Taika? Yeah, Taika. Taika Waititi, yes. He's a New Zealander who's made his way through the American film system. Yeah, I mean, he's sort of, I mean, he's directing the next Star Wars now.

He's in everything. Exactly. No, I mean, we all love Taika. I mean, he was a stand-up comedian in New Zealand. He made a short, and that did really well. Are you friends with him? You are. We all know each other in New Zealand.

Well, yeah, you said you text the prime minister and stuff, so I have a feeling you do know Taika. We both had, when I had tickled out at Sundance, he had Hunt for the Wilderpeople. Love that movie. And so that whole crew was there. So Taika and Sam Neill and Julian, who played the kid, they were all there. And so we all, the tickled crew and the Wilderpeople crew all hung out.

That's fun. And yeah, the thing with Taika is he's just really lovely and inclusive and just sort of wants to help everyone. So we're not friends. Whenever he bumps into me, he'll be nice to me, which is so kind. But the theater going experience in New Zealand, it's not like this so much now but growing up there's always a huge delay before the movies would get to new zealand oh right so we hear about these things but we'd waiting for like a month for them to come out so when you say you saw jurassic park in the theater you saw it when you were like 20 of years ago. It finally reached us.

No, so there's like a bit of a delay. Things are a bit more, again, it's changed now. We are getting these cinemas that are customizable and sort of more Indian than the bigger ones. But generally, the main difference is the food and the drinks are smaller. There's just less of everything. And the trailers are the same? Less of them than here. The trailers and the ads again everything in america to me it's bigger and it's longer and more and more and that can be really good like

if you're hungry yum more more more but like ads no no no get those away from me okay did you have the dollar theaters when you're growing up yes it was like all the late run stuff you go see for like a dollar yeah in my college town we would go to the dollar theater. A dollar. And yet you're still standing outside, not going to a movie, just chatting. No, that was the regal. That was a regular price ticket. Okay.

To be cool, you had to stand outside. And this is a ding, ding, ding to our Waffle House. Yeah. Because the Waffle House was right across the street from the movie theater. And that's when the fight. So it's all connected. Oh, so it's all the scenery of town. You got your Waffle House, your cinema.

Yes. All of those things. Everyone's outside the movie theater. And then there's going to be a fight in an hour outside the Waffle House. I love this so much. And Trevor has a knife. There was a specific theater in our neighborhood that people would go at to fight. Yeah, see? That was the fight theater. The neighborhood that people would go at to fight. Yeah, see?

That was the fight theater. The Streets of Woodfield Theater was... It was an AMC. It used to be a Lowe's. I guess when you're a kid, it's a mall, it's a theater, or it's like a chain, right? That's all you have in your life. There's nothing else to do. Oh, my God.

They were the good old days. I know. Yeah, in New Zealand, we'd all go to like the town square kids now they just are on screens at each other like they're like yeah they're online bullying instead of in-person fighting yeah should go back to the good old days of like fisticuffs fatties okay so you're gonna go and see everything everywhere all at once on the big screen i am this is very exciting i'm very excited i've got got a flightless bird related gift for you, David. Do you?

Are you going to give it on air? Oh, yeah. I love flightless bird related gifts. Oh, my God. He's throwing it, so it's soft. I caught it. Okay, opening this. It's a new wallet. Oh.

But it's got zippers. Oh, my God. This is for your condoms.'s pre-loaded for you too oh my god it's got a couple of skin condoms in here rob this wallet is actually really beautiful because as you know i have this little child's purse that i've had for years this isn't too bulky and too insane. This is like really beautiful. And it's also got really funky colors.

It seemed fitting for you. It does. It seems very David-y. Wow. That's very thoughtful, Rob. It's got a little flying octopus on the front. Oh, you love animals. And two condoms.

Oh, there's more. Oh, there's more in here. But they're in the zipped. Oh, they're everywhere in here. But they're everywhere the zipped. Oh, they're everywhere in here. But they're everywhere. Oh, my God. Four condoms. Wow.

Oh, my God. You can't use these. Now you can go on your dates. Ron has high hopes for you. And yes. I know. I actually got told off after that podcast. Apparently, having condoms in your wallet is terrible because if you sit on your wallet,

it goes through wear and tear. The condoms get sort of uh they break or something yeah so that's just i'm just putting it out there that's what people got upset about that's extra thick and it's protective of condoms extra thick i still think i prefer for the guy to come prepared to come to come prepared with their zipped up condom rob this is the nicest thing you've ever done for me thank you so much i love this wallet i'm gonna take that to the movies will it fit in your it'll fit in my pants that was the only thing i was concerned i know you're a front pocket oh it fits perfect it's perfect it's in there now great oh my god i'm stacked with

condoms gonna hit the town if you haven't listened to our Valentine's Day episode, that's where this originates. Yeah, there is a reason we're talking about this. Yeah, so Stacey's book is really good. Black Founder. The Alamo Drafthouse is really good as a cinema. And AMC, if you want to see Nicole Kidman harp on about how much she loves the movies.

And the movies are fun. Go to the movies. Last question. What do you think about going to the movie solo yay or nay oh i'm yay on that yeah same big supporter i love it too big supporter that's the best it's actually the best place to do a solo event because you aren't talking anyway when are you talking yeah if you're talking in the movies you're a bad person go solo agreed all right well you convinced me that this episode was worth doing

thank you so that's a big feather in your cap thank you so much all right so we've learned a lot about the american movie going experience yes that was fun you love trailers i avoid them because sometimes there's too much given away spoiler am i more american or less american i think you are only more american if you prove that you can do an American accent. Oh, my accent. This is a thing. I learned this really quickly when I got here. If I'm ever on the phone with any kind of American entity, the DMV, for instance,

if I say, can I please book my driver's test? I want to take it tomorrow. They'll be like, what? So I have to state it. I'm like, hi, So I have to state it, I'm like Hi, it's David Farrier calling Could I please book my driver's test For Friday at 10.49pm

Woah, woah, woah You sound like a serial killer You do! And you know what they say? Of course Let's book it, and at that time I can understand you And I feel like an idiot But it fucking works Listen, just because can understand you and i feel like an idiot but it fucking works listen just because i

understand you i wouldn't say that means you do a good american accent i don't want to take you down a peg that was terrifying but that was not a good american accent because that didn't sound american that just sounded like a strange cycle you realize this is what americans sound like this is how they talk all the time. No, no. That's maybe like a southern, slightly southern playing. It has a tinge of southern. Let me close my eyes. Do it again.

Hi, Monica. My name's David Farrier. Now, also Monica, you said, which is not American. Hey, look, what I'm saying is it helps me and I think that makes me, well, I would say 100% American. You would say in the negatives. Here's one thing.

I have noticed that you do it when we do our ads and you're saying bird. You're trying to make the R punctuate. This is flightless bird. How do you say it normal? I'll say, so go to soever.com slash flightless bird. I think that's how I say it. I roll the R a bit. Yeah.

But I do that anyway because I do have a weird R already because, you know, remember when I went to school, I really idolized that kid in my class who was from the South Island and he rolled his R's and I took the R's on. So that's sort of a weird New Zealand defect I have. Okay. But it does help me in America because because boy, you love rolling the R. Do we? Oh, you roll R's.

That's like a Spanish thing. Yeah. You roll the R's. You'll be like car. No, car. As opposed to car. Car. I guess comparatively on.

Pull up the car, monocar. All right. Okay. Movies. I'm getting out of here. Bye.