Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Flightless Bird: Pickleball

Episode Date: March 28, 2023

In this week’s Flightless Bird, David Farrier sets out to understand America’s fastest growing sport, pickleball. Why did five million Americans turn to pickleball during the pandemic, and why did Tom Brady and LeBron James buy franchises in various Pickleball leagues? David goes to meet and play Pickleball with one of America’s best players, Jessie Irvine, to discover some tips and tricks. Along the way he discovers why Americans are suing each other over pickleball, before talking to Chuck Menke, Chief Marketing Officer for Pickleball America. They discuss what the chances are of pickleball becoming an official Olympic Sport, and whether the rest of the world is embracing pickleball with the same gusto as the US. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm David Farrier, and New Zealand are accidentally marooned in America, and I want to figure out what makes this country tick. Now one of the most fascinating things about being in a new country is observing what the people around you are doing with balls. They say that dogs like balls, but in my experience, people like balls way more. Go to India, and they're hitting hard, round balls with a bat. In New Zealand we do that as well but we're way more obsessed with tackling players to the ground so we can steal their oval balls. In

England they're running around in the grass doing fancy footwork with their spherical balls and in America they bounce their balls and try and get them through a small hoop. But I'd heard of a new thing they're doing with balls in America involving a sport that's been named the fastest growing sport in the United States. Fall Saturdays may be for college football, Sundays the NFL, but you better make way for pickleball. To me, pickleball looks like a cross between tennis, badminton, and ping pong, and the ball involved is hollow, made of plastic, and has holes all over it. During the pandemic, around 5 million Americans turned to pickleball to stop themselves from going insane with boredom. George Clooney was one of them. Tom Brady and LeBron James have both bought franchises in

various pickleball leagues. In short, America has gone batshit crazy for pickleball. So, grab that ball and paddle, and prepare to play the sport with the silliest name of all the sports, because this is the Pickleball Episode. I'm a flightless bird Touchdown in America Pickleball, Monica. Do we have any opinions on this American... Soon-to-be-pastime. Soon-to-be-pastime.

Yeah, what is it now? It's blossoming. Virgining. Yeah, it's a thing. It is a thing. You know how we know it's a thing? How? My dad is playing pickleball.

Your dad's... Old dad is playing pickleball. Your dad's older people love pickleball. He's playing it with a woman from work's husband. He's like making social connections. Right. That's nice. It's brand new to me in all of my life, 35 years. This is the first time I've seen him engage in a sport i mean he played cricket when he was young that's great for your dad because as our parents get older you want them to be moving around because there's that thing if you're sitting all day that's when you die right yeah but you know i'm gonna knock okay because i am afraid of something elizabeth and andy my favorite podcast nobody's listening right eliz Elizabeth's dad died on the tennis court.

He had a heart attack. Oh, no. You're right. So it was just too much. Well, I mean, I'm sure there were other factors. Yeah, but you're thinking, yeah, is my dad racing around getting that heart rate up? Is he going to push the limits? Yeah, it's that balance, isn't it?

Yeah, because he's a winner like me, and I'm worried he's going to push the limits. So what was that? I just threw that in there. Does it make you want to take up Pickleball? 100%. Because this could be a bonding thing with your dad. How do you bond with your dad? That's like a question you'd put to me.

You're right. How do you bond with your father? I thought you were going to say that could be something we bond over. I thought you were going to offer that way. I we bond over. I thought you were going to offer that way. We play. I'm putting it over to you and your dad. Okay. Yeah, we mainly bond by conversation, debate, but maybe pickleball.

You could be bonding on the pickleball court. Also, would I be embarrassed? I don't know what it looks like. I don't know much about it other than that my dad is playing. That's great because I know nothing either. Like coming in and making this documentary, I was exactly the same. I went out and hit the pavement, talked to a few Americans about their thoughts on pickleball

because I knew nothing when I started this. What can you tell me about the sport of pickleball? I'm like an avid pickleball player, actually. I love pickleball. It's like between table tennis, ping pong, and real tennis. We're older. I'm 50. We're from Chicago. I heard about it, but now I don't know that much about it. It's a new wave. It's a new wave thing.

That's all I know. Has anybody told you how furious people get when people play pickleball on tennis courts? No. At least on the East Coast. So I live in a town that has a lot of tennis courts scattered around the community, and you see people using those courts for pickleball, and there is a line for the pickleball court. And the overflow goes to the tennis courts, which are generally empty, but then people who do want to play tennis show up, and it's a thing. I remember somebody mentioned this podcast where somebody who had never been a professional athlete figured out he could make it as a professional athlete by learning pickleball.

And he was trying to study it. That's all I knew. Yeah, there is this thing with pickleball where it's known as being much easier to pick up than tennis or pretty much any other ball sport. And so, yeah, people are going hard. Okay. You're deflecting that you had a bad week and you have to tell me why. I said earlier, yeah, I did have a bad week. I have hated this week.

My roof got a leak. I've got a big leak in the kitchen. There's water coming in the house. Oh, no. I think when water's coming in the house, it's a bad time. And in New Zealand, we're experiencing all this horrible flooding at the moment and people have sort of like lost everything. So I can't talk. But it's just annoying when there's water in the house the thing about living in los angeles everyone's like it never rains you know you come here for the sun and meanwhile it's

the only place that i've lived in that suddenly got a leaking roof you know thanks ellie when the rain really started picking up when When? When you arrived. No, it's weird. What if you brought it? I probably did. I was catching up with a New Zealander the other day that had just come here and he made the same joke that he had bought it over here. But no, so the house,

I've still got the ghost at three in the morning. I was going to ask, but maybe he's scared of the rain and he'll leave. No, he's still waking me up at three. It's the thing. It's still happening. There's a leak going on and i don't know that everyone feels a bit grumpy and annoyed including me okay well it's seasonal affective disorder sad times you're right yeah so i bet that is infiltrating sucks how do you feel i feel i have a cold um so that's a bummer but it's also

fine but a worse thing happened. Really bad. Oh, no. You're connected to this, too. Oh, my God. Okay. Really bad. So I took you to a new wine bar. Yeah.

It was yum. It's closed now. Oh. Right after I took you there. It's gone. I went, like, every day. Yeah. Not every day, but a lot of days.

Yeah, so I sort of perched up on those little chairs in the corner. It was great. It felt very great lighting. Cozy. Great music. Now the city is requiring new stuff from them. They have to like put on pause. And that's my favorite place.

Had they gone off the rails? Were they doing something? Was there something not in order? I don't know. Right. I don't think so. Right. I mean, it was great to me it was

great i had a great time i've always wanted to open up a whiskey bar with my friend hayden in new zealand because i mean i don't even know that much about whiskey but i do like drinking it oh you do i always like the idea of just having you know people can pop down to you know dave's bar and the areas behind the bar and you need to sort of talk with people and what would it be called for the podcast it used to be called dave's whiskey bar oh okay um or if hayden was involved actually dave and hayden's whiskey bar i can't exclude him was sort of it is a mouth it doesn't flow off the time dave's whiskey bar sounds better i think it'd be great to have a bar you know yeah hey pickleball dave's den dave's den it sounds that's a little. Once again, Hayden. It sounds, yeah. Oh. Yeah.

Yeah. It's a lot better than David Hayden's whiskey bar. Thank you, Rob. Do you want to come on board? I'd be down. I'll be part of the R&D. Okay. Trying the whiskeys.

This is great. What's your favorite whiskey? That's part of the problem of opening up a whiskey bar is I don't know enough about it to even define a whiskey that I love. You don't know what whiskey is. I don't know a lot about it. But whenever I'm handed a whiskey, I feel like I like a smoky one. Oh, okay. I like that vibe.

This is a ding, ding, ding. Have you ever done a pickleback? No. Is it pickleball related? They both share the word pickle. Yeah. A pickleback, I think, now I'm getting a little little nervous is you take a shot of pickle juice and whiskey oh pickle juice and whiskey yeah that sounds sort of revolting yeah it's a shot of liquor and it's cheese by a shot of pickle yeah it's supposed to be good i'm not a big pickle

fan and therefore pickle juice for me is a bit of a a no-no do you like dill so yeah what's dill uh it's a herb and it's kind of pickly it's so good yeah some people say herb don't they they drop the america says herb but really yeah that is a thing here yeah you say herb herb because it's got an h there well i wondered about that You're all saying herb Yeah it's silent This week on Flight Dispersed Herbs Oh my god Speaking of

I watched The Inside Man Which is a show On Netflix And They said maths Like Four

Thousand times And how did that make you feel? Attacked Absolutely wild Yes Yeah I get a lot of people DMing me different things, both math and maths all the time.

Well, now we got urban herds. Yeah, leaf blowers and math really seem to hit a chord with people. People got very passionate. Yeah, sure. Anyway, pickleball. Okay, so we've all had a miserable week. The wine bar's closed. Yes.

Got a leaking roof, all that kind of stuff. But we've still got pickleball. Okay. And what I really like about pickleball okay and what i really like about pickleball is what someone mentioned in there is that there are these fights breaking out across the united states with this rise in popularity of a brand new sport america doesn't have the infrastructure to host all these players and so what they're doing they're flooding to the tennis courts where people are playing tennis to play pickleball okay now there's this big

abusive relationship between tennis players and pickleball players because pickleball players are trying to take over courts that typically tennis has dominated. I think it's very political. Okay. It is very political. It's very divisive. But, and I'm going to, of course, pick a side. I pick the pickleball players side because these are community courts, right?

They're community courts. So if you arrive to play tennis at your local tennis court and people are on it, why does it matter to you whether they're playing tennis or pickleball? I think you've dedicated your life to the game of tennis. You know, you love tennis. You know, you live for tennis. You're loving tennis okay suddenly this new sport's invented yeah you pop down to the courts just overridden with maniacs like your father who decided to pick up a paddle and just start willy-nilly whacking a ball around but would they have the same complaint if they were playing tennis that's my they wouldn't it's the sheer volume it's the popularity of pickleball that's just gotten so out of hand.

And I actually, I agree with you in a way. I don't do the devil's advocate thing very well. I think they need to learn how to get on together. And I think it's great. People are playing a new sport. And getting exercise. And getting exercise. I mean, I almost took it in a bad direction.

Oh, did you? You pulled yourself back. I'm proud of you. But I kind of want to go there. Go there. Give it a go. I like that people are moving their bodies Yeah, absolutely And not everyone is just resorting to putting a needle in their body

Oh, I think that's Do you know what I'm talking about? Heroin? No, no, the weight loss drugs The current weight loss drug Oh, this is all very valid Right? Yeah, absolutely, yeah, get out and move the bod. Why not?

I think it's preferred. I'm figuring out an episode around sort of, I don't know what the episode is going to be called, maybe bodies. Okay, American bodies. People like, yeah, because obviously, especially in Los Angeles, you know, I can't help but notice all the plastic surgery and all the different health things. And I think the way America thinks about things is certainly different to New Zealand. Yeah, that's interesting. And that's part of it is, yeah,

this new trend of getting a little injection. And look, it's wrought with drama. We could have 400 hours of conversation, on which we won't. But New Zealand and America both have problems with health with people. Yeah. And moving around is a really good thing.

So if people are finding a new sport, that's brilliant. I agree. Especially for older people, that's the age where you really need to be. You give up. Yeah. You can't have an old person running around the tennis court. Well, I think it's a pretty low-key sport too.

So I think your dad's probably okay. It's probably safer for him to be. Rob! Safer to be playing pickleball than pick up basketball. That's not his sport. He's very short. He's a short man. He's a point guard.

Oh, cute. Yeah, he's cute. What's the height difference between the two of you? He's probably like 5'7". And what about your mom? I'm 5 feet. Yeah, how tall is your mom? She's 5'3".

Oh, what a cute family. Everyone's small. How tall is Neil? He's tall, actually. He's like 5'10 1⁄2 or 5'11. Oh, really? Yeah. He got lucky. What a freak of the family. Oh, my God. We have a visitor.

Oh, I didn't even know you guys were here. Oh, my. Hello. How did I not notice that I was here? Dax is here. We're talking about Pickleball. Pickleball? Pickleball. Pickled balls? Pickled balls.

Do you have any thoughts on it while you're here? I said my dad plays pickleball now. It's a form of tennis for the unathletic. Is that the premise? Oh, that's so big. Well, just imagine, Monica, let's play basketball, but let's play on a 30-foot court. I don't want to go all the way. Isn't it like a half-size tennis court?

Yeah. You can fit. Dexter just wandered in. He said, do you have thoughts on pickleball? Of course he does. I don't. I just made them up. I don't believe that.

And anyone that likes pickleball, I really support it. Because anything to get out and move your body is wonderful. What do you think about the controversy where I was just saying the infrastructure of America isn't coping with all the pickleball players? You've got people playing tennis. They're getting annoyed because their courts are being flooded with new pickleball players. It's not on a different size court? They use the same space. So there's no specific.

There are a few, but not many. Most pickleball players will go to a tennis court and put up their little net. Therefore taking over. They could do a tennis court. put up their little net. Therefore taking over. They could do a tennis court. It's been a long time. I've missed it so much too. Yeah, it's been a minute.

So they're taking over existing tennis courts. I know. It's like we just met. I got to get over it. I got to get through it. Should Frito meet David? Yeah, where are you from? Space? I don't like this character.

It freaks me out. Why? I can't. You freak out or something? I don't like this character at all. Okay. Where are you from? I'm from New Zealand.

New Zealand. Us and the stars. What galaxy? This guy's like Buck Rogers, but he's too tall who's buck rogers fuck you don't know who buck rogers is you're not even with it i'm not i'm not i don't know who's planet earth well that's a great question oh uh bud rogers is the best i think you'd enjoy it in new zealand if i'm honest they got pancakes go? Go pancakes. People have sex? We have six.

Can you get loaded there? If you want, I guess. Oh, I didn't know that about Frito. I should have guessed. No, he likes beer bongs. Oh. Does he do drugs? Do you do drugs? All of them. What kind? What are they? You don't have to

fit in. It doesn't make you fit in. I'm a moncho man, so I do all the stuff. Party, sex, drugs, loaded. Other things you said. Okay. I'm sorry, David, because. Pickleball. Yeah, see, he doesn't.

Oh, I love. Pickles make me horny because I look like. I know the character. I find him repulsive. But mesmerizing. Do you ever get so horny when you look at pickles? Because all the dicks in the jar. The bowls are covered in little holes.

Right, don't they poke a little hole in there to take the velocity out? Why are your glasses just steamed up? What is happening? Is there something atmospherically happening over there? No, it's like when I laugh a I laugh a lot, my face gets hot. And the hat is holding in. Hey, four eyes, what happened? You steaming rice over there?

Yes, it does. Because my hat that I've got on, I think, locks the steam in. Is that visible? And this is what happens. Fredo gets people's motors running. When you laugh, you start to heat up. But I'm heating up so much. My glasses are steaming up.

I'm already heated. I've never seen that ever happen. You're releasing all of your moisture. Oh, my God. Monica, warn them. Electrolytes. Electrolytes. We should do an episode on american electrolytes ding ding

ding that's what frito is obsessed with electrolytes yeah it's got what plants crave electrolytes bronzo oh yeah oh my god we're more alike than different yeah you guys could meet in the middle on electrolytes yeah one thing i'll meet you all the way. Well, no thanks. Where do you live? Oh, no. Give me your address. Let's get out of this place. We're supposed to be together. Ew, God. He's such a predator.

Can Dex please come back? I know. This is the problem. I love Dex so much. Once he gets released. I get hijacked. Yeah, you really get hijacked. Just really quickly, Dex, would you ever play pickleball?

Would you take up a new sport you play? It's really popular in Venice now I feel like there's a bunch of dedicated courts And I have a few different friends who played on the regular And it seemed like a great thing to do And probably less injuries than tennis It's less running in pickleball So there's less cardio going on

What were you coming up here? Because you ride up here sometimes, don't you? Are we going to work out up here? tennis yeah it's less running and pickleball so there's less cardio going on uh all right what were you coming up here because you ride up here sometimes don't you are we going to work out up here what was the you know there's a lot of mixed messages coming if you notice i came in holding a mic stand you did that has been in my luggage for three four weeks okay since hawaii yeah and it's not made its way out of my bedroom i just finally tackled another suitcase all my stuff i just tackled and this needed to come this is a morning of getting things done are you guys both very productive yeah i think we're being productive i actually recently wondered my friend told me i need to see if i've got adhd because apparently

i get very distracted by things i need to go and get diagnosed are so productive you do not have can i argue okay yeah please yeah because i do sometimes when i'm writing these episodes i do You are so productive You do not have Can I argue Yeah please When I'm writing these episodes I do get distracted I'm sort of flitting around the apartment Your level of concentration is kind of unmatched The prolificness of your writing That's straight concentration

Exactly Secondary to that You're 39 You're 40 David're 40 you just turned 40 and you're like 40 yep david of bethlehem lies but yeah as we learned i don't mind thank you i still keep calling you that yeah yeah that's all right don't let a lie get in the way of a good story exactly okay now back to being diagnosed with adhd by your fucking buddy you're 40 i'm 40 you're successful people like you why on earth

would you need to go get a diagnosis and then what get it for fun no get it because obviously you'd want to treat it so then start medication like there's nothing needs investigation this is what's a little thanks for saying that weird about yeah our current culture is like you know i think you might uh have an issue with have split personality. But you're not suffering anything. You weren't complaining to your friend like, oh my God, I just can't get anything done. He's like, well, try this. No, he's like looking at a perfectly functional

person and going, you should go get a diagnosis of ADHD. I don't get that. Yeah, the appeal to it was, I'm like, am I missing something? Maybe I could be even more, sort of, maybe I could be better, become, you know, some sort of other level that I'm missing out on Superhuman? I don't know, but that's nice to hear

Unless there are consequences I don't see why you would go Right Anything happening sexually we don't know about? No, it's mainly just not I do get distracted sometimes Once every three hours You're a person

People get distracted We do get distracted sometimes. Yeah, once every three hours. You're a person. People get distracted. We do get distracted, don't we? Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Sometimes it's hard to know what's normal and what's not normal. There's even science about how frequently you're supposed to take breaks. The actual energy output of the brain, when it needs to rest.

You might just not even be in the cycle of what one should be in to just the little rest okay now i'll take that on board thank you that's really good to know i'm gonna diagnose your friend with something now tell them that they have hypochondria and they need to go see the doctor and then get some xanax oh god that's a bad sauce oh god oh my god he's back oh god you never know when he's going to appear. Including me. It was nice to meet him in person. I love you guys. What a fun.

Love you. I'm so delighted that this accident happened. Yes, me too. Okay. Good luck pickleballing. Bye. Wow. Interlude.

Okay, we were going to hop in on that. Oh, you were going to play the documentary? Okay, this is the documentary I made to learn about the sport of pickleball. It was a Saturday morning and I was off to Arcadia, a part of LA I've never been to before. I've given up trying to figure out what all the different suburbs here are all about, but I did note that this one appeared to have a Denny's that was housed inside of a windmill. As I said, not much of America makes sense to me, even after a year in. I also noticed a lot of peacocks in Arcadia, and apparently Hunter

S. Thompson wrote most of Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas at a motel in Arcadia. Jet Li lived here while he was making some of his best films. But I wasn't here for peacocks or Jet Li. I was here to find a pickleball court. And I heard it before I saw it. The pickleball is a loud ball. And hit with a hard bat, it makes a distinct noise that's more ping pong than tennis. In true American style, some people are suing over it. One lawsuit alleges the sounds of a pickleball court close to a house in Newport Beach cause severe mental suffering, frustration and anxiety. Dozens of lawsuits have been filed about the sound from the West Coast to the East Coast.

But here in Arcadia, people love pickleball. As I approach the courts, I can see about 12 people playing. So extend all the way through. This is one of the few shots where you don't want a short swing. I'm here to meet Jesse Irvine, one of America's top pickleball players. She's a top five player in all three divisions of women's pro pickleball, and today she's coaching a bunch of pickleball enthusiasts. If you notice he's making thirds that are unattackable, right? They're not really punishing it. Move forward.

Close that gap and apply pressure. Any sporting lingo sort of breezes in one ear and out the other with me, but it certainly sounds like she knows what she's talking about. It's kind of like the children's game, red light, green light. The lower the ball, the more you can move forward because the lower the ball, the less the opposing team can do with it. I've arrived early while Jessie is still mid-session and so I move away from the pickleball chaos and call Chuck Menke. the opposing team can do with it. I've arrived early while Jesse is still mid-session,

and so I move away from the pickleball chaos and call Chuck Minky. Here's a fun stat. So in this country right now, there are three new pickleball facilities opening up every single day. If you can't tell already, Chuck Minky is the chief marketing officer for Pickleball America. My first exposure to the sport of pickleball actually was back when I was in college. So I'm going to date myself here. Around 1992, I was asked to fill in for a doubles partner of a friend of mine and play pickleball for the very first time in intramurals at the University of Missouri. So I kid around sometimes. at the University of Missouri. So I kid around sometimes. I like to say that I hold the world record for the greatest amount of time elapsed between playing pickleball because I didn't play pickleball again until earlier this year in the spring. That was a gap of about 30 years.

And pickleball has been around for longer than that. It was first dreamt up almost 60 years ago in 1965 by friends on Bainbridge Island in Washington. Joel, Bill, and Barney wanted to play badminton but didn't have enough gear. So they grabbed some ping pong paddles, a net, and a ball and invented what would become pickleball. The court's a lot smaller than a tennis court so you don't have to run around as much, meaning it's much easier to pick up. If you're being introduced to the sport and someone is teaching you how to play it, within 30 minutes or so, you can start playing a game, if not sooner. Whereas a lot of sports, you really need to get coached up. You need to practice a ton before you can start enjoying it. And that's really not the case with pickleball.

Pickleball saw a growth of 40% during the pandemic because it was so easy to play. Families slowly losing their minds stuck together all day could finally take it all out on each other. Nets thrown across driveways and singles tennis courts divided up into multiple pickleball courts. You've got grandparents playing with grandkids, which you can't find in too many other sports. Chuck also sees pickleball as a new way for kids to get more exercise. I mean, not every American kid wants to play baseball, football or basketball. Unfortunately, there's a childhood obesity epidemic in this country,

and we don't have enough kids who are staying active enough hours of the day. So that's why we look at pickleball as an opportunity for kids to get out there. It's not often you see a new sport being born. I mean, what other ones are there? Ultimate Frisbee? Cornhole? I would say that there is a group of emerging sports

here in the US. When you look at the Olympics and you see some of the new sports that are coming into play, surfing, breakdancing, esports has blown up as well. Cricket is making significant inroads here in the US. But right now, pickleball is the sport still on a steady rise.

The Kardashians are playing. You've got like a good number of celebs on board. We do. I think that that's really helped push the awareness as well and the credibility and legitimacy of the sport. It's this sport with a funny name, pickleball. And I think that some people initially, when they hear about it, they're like, what is that? And they may even kind of scoff at it. But then when you see all of these A-list celebrities who are playing the sport,

people might say, oh, wow, geez, you know, maybe I should look at this again. who are playing the sport, people might say, oh, wow, geez, you know, maybe I should look at this again. Another thing that we've really seen is a lot of top professional athletes from other sports, whether it's the NFL or the NBA, getting involved in the sport now. And at the professional level of the sport, there are two pro tours and a pro league. And you're seeing folks like Tom Brady, and a pro league. And you're seeing folks like Tom Brady, LeBron James, Patrick Mahomes, Drew Brees, Kevin Durant, all coming into the sport now and investing in professionals, pickleball entities, which again is another huge vote of confidence for the sport and showing people that this really is becoming a mainstream sport and that it's a cool sport. Will pickleball be at the Olympics

in LA in 2028? Maybe. Around 60 countries have joined the International Federation of Pickleball. You need 75 countries to be considered for being part of the Olympics. In my mind, the sport has another obstacle in its path to becoming a mainstream American activity, the name. There's two competing theories. One is that the wife of one of the three founders of the sport referred to it as pickleball because pickleball essentially is a mashup of tennis, ping pong, and badminton. So she was using a rowing reference, what's called a pickle boat, which is a combination of all the rowers who didn't make the other varsity boats. So you get put in that combination of other teams. That's called the

pickle boat. And then there's also a theory that the sport was named after the family dog, which was called Pickles. So I've looked more into this, and apparently the dog was named after the sport, not the other way around. In the United States, are there particular areas that are popping off more than others? Are there particular parts of America that refuse to play pickleball that you want to cut through into? What does it look like out there? Right, yeah. So I think when you look at states like Florida, Texas, California, Arizona, those are the primary hotspots. It's being played everywhere. And obviously the northernmost states during the

winter months, people are going to have to go indoors. Whereas in those warm weather climates, you're going to be able to play the sport year round. So I wouldn't say there's anybody who's refusing to play pickleball, but there are definitely states where the sport is really taken off. I look over to the pickleball courts and see that Jessie is winding down her coaching session. I tell Chuck who I'm about to meet. So she is one of the top professional players over to the pickleball courts and see that jesse is winding down her coaching session i tell chuck who i'm about to meet so she is one of the top professional players and she was actually at our national championships in early november and competed there and did tremendously well who better to learn from than one of america's best players one who will definitely kick my ass at pickleball.

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So pickleball, it's a big deal, right? Competitive leagues. It's all happening. Is that a cliffhanger that you play? It's a cliffhanger. Yeah, I'm going to go and play. It's a cliffhanger. Oh, okay. I really want to play now.

This is making me feel. Yeah, we should actually all get some gear and all go and play together. Yeah's rob four of us will go down it's like tennis you can do two on two or singles okay i played a little bit after this episode and something i found it's not documented in this documentary but i get really angry i've had a lot of emotions come out and i played my friend ben and i got really um violent yeah not violent more verbally aggressive at him or just oh yeah i was um you know because i wanted to win and that came out of me and that's actually not sort of in this episode but something i've found about myself since this episode is i am pickleball brings out the worst in you it does i mean i was really throwing some pretty harsh insults at him i think you have a latent rage you can't just come out with that yeah you can't just make that statement i can i can because

i saw it when we drove too that's right you had moments of rage that's so unlike you but then certain things bring it out and i wish your friend had diagnosed you with rage instead of adhd because that's more accurate i don't like things that i can't control and i think other drivers made me angry that day i got annoyed at myself as well because sometimes and i let yourself down yeah i let myself down i don't play sport my whole life i've avoided have you ever played any sports at school the only things i could kind of get away with were tennis and basketball i could sort of play them yeah i wasn't good but like rugby and soccer and all that kind of thing were just terrible oh but you also

you swim right yeah but swimming's different what i don't like about sports is you have to be in a team with other people that's really hard and there's like the social thing with school like when you're getting picked for teams i don't know if you do this in america you get two captains yeah right i pick sally i pick roger i'll always write at the end you know i'm the one you just like oh god what team has to take me on you're so tall though you should be picked early yeah but people knew i was bad i wasn't good at sport i was bad i was tall and clumsy and your brother was so good you don't need to necessarily bring that up i mean that was but it was a part it's a piece of it david it's a piece yeah so my brother inadequate

compared to your brother at my school my brother was literally one of the top athletes in everything. And I wasn't. And so, yeah, that created pressure because also I was a farrier, you know, and there was a sporty farrier and then there was the dud. And that came into it as well. So my relationship with sport is I haven't had one. What does your brother do now? He's a graphic designer.

Oh, so he's also doing well. Yeah, he's doing really well. I was hoping maybe it switched and as an adult he's like doing horribly and is stupid and bad. No, none of those things. I was thinking of lying then instead of making out that he was, but he's actually doing quite well. Okay. He's a winner too. So I haven't played sport for a long time.

So since this episode I've gone and played a bit of pickleball. Okay. He's a winner too. So I haven't played sport for a long time. So since this episode, I've gone and played a bit of pickleball. Yeah. I think my rage has found sort of an outlet maybe in pickleball. Oh, I can't wait to play with you because I'm really competitive. There's also that thing of getting annoyed at yourself when your body doesn't do what you want it to do. Like when you're trying to return a shot and you think you're doing something really great and you fuck it up. I felt so angry and I'll take that out on Ben. Okay. That's not fair. How long did it take you to learn the rules? How quickly did you pick up at least that? Rules are really confusing in pickleball. They are? The scoring system is really unusual. No, you get the idea pretty quickly. The's annoying The lines on the court are quite annoying

But you get over that Why don't I play you the rest of the doc where I talk to Jessie Because she's the one who really knows what's going on As far as I can tell from watching so far today Jessie basically destroys everyone she plays So when the game's over I give everyone some gentle encouragement You're all very fucking good.

I appreciate that. We'll be back next year. We want a rematch. I'd noticed something weird they all did at the end of the game, so I wanted to clear that up first. Everyone hits their bats at the end of a game. The paddle, sorry. A paddle tap, what's the paddle tap?

Partners will do it in between points, kind of like good shot or like we got the next one. At the end is what they used to do in tennis, where they would shake at the end of a game. Now, Jessie would know all about this because she used to play tennis. She moved from North Carolina to LA when she was about 21, mainly for the weather.

And it was in LA that she'd swap her tennis racket for a pickleball paddle. What had happened was I started playing tennis, probably around the age of 10. My goal was to play professional tennis. I went to Florida to train at the academies, did that whole thing, played national tournaments, started playing the professional circuit. And after a couple of years in, I got injured to the point where I couldn't continue at the high level. I was born with very little cartilage. So what happens is it's not really an injury per se, but my joints just don't have any cartilage.

So it's bone on bone. Ow, that feels sore. No, it's not great. What was happening in tennis was when I would serve in particular, it would pinch the nerve. Then I can't lift it up for three weeks. And then eventually after this happening a couple of times at tournaments, I just had to quit altogether. Which would be such a thing to come to. Your body's not letting you do this thing you're really good at doing. Basically what happened was I took a couple of years just to

kind of mentally regroup and handle that because it was very hard for me to mentally handle the idea of it was myself that is stopping me from being able to achieve my dreams. And that's kind of how I took it. Then that's when I decided to move out to L.A. just to kind of have a fresh start. Started coaching tennis to kids. Loved that. I was doing that for like 10 plus years, coaching junior tennis. And then I would say at the end of 2018, somebody kind of brought to my attention this sport called pickleball.

And they're like, hey, Jesse, I know you kind of had these injuries in the past that were related to tennis, but you know, there's a sport called pickleball. It's a smaller court. It's easier on the body and there's no serve. It's all under his. So like, you don't have to worry about that. And it's becoming more competitive, more professional, more money is getting involved. They thought I would really like it and I would enjoy it. It's not like it was custom built for you almost. Yeah, exactly. And I think there's a lot of pros out there that feel that way.

There's a lot of us that are kind of in our late 20s, early 30s that are seeing as, oh, this is a second opportunity for me to actually be competitive again. I figure I should start with the basics and get my head around the rules of pickleball. You can play singles or doubles and only the person or team serving can get points. If the team serving messes up a rally, it's the other team's chance to serve and their chance to collect points.

There's an area close to the net called the kitchen and she explained what that was all about, but I'd sort of drifted off. I find new sports confusing. It's like when someone's trying to teach me a new tabletop board game. I just drift off. Even the scoring's confusing. So there's three numbers. You have the first number is your score, second number is the opponent's score, and the third number is whether you're the first server or the second server. As a team, you get two chances to serve.

So for instance, let's say we're a team and I win the first point. So now I will say 1-0-1. If we win the next point, 2-0-1. If we lose that, well, now it's your serve. So now you would say 2-0-2 to keep track of who's first and who's second. Then if we lose that, now the opposing team serves, now they say their score is zero, they say our score is two,

and now they're on their first chance of serving one. Simple. With the facts sorted, I wanted to know about the money. Can one get rich playing pickleball? I would say tennis players probably ranked top 300, top 400 that are making okay money. But if they actually transferred over to pickleball and took it seriously, they would almost make the same amount or even more. Now, a big point made again and again about pickleball is that anyone can play.

A father can take on a son, a mother, a daughter, a grandma can take on a baby, that sort of thing. But I wondered what it took to take things up a notch to get to Jesse's level, to a pro level. It really isn't a skill thing, which is again, what makes pickleball such a great sport. It's not like you have to be like John Isner and be 6'10 and have, you know, just these big serves that are 140 miles. I could never serve that hard. Like there's just some people that just can't physically do certain sports. Whereas with pickleball, you don't actually have to be fast and you don't have to be strong because that's not what the sport's about.

It's more technique. It's more technique. It's more of a skill set. And then it's more mental. It's like chess. It's just understanding how the game is played. And if you can understand it and make balls and just have good technique, you can go really far. Her pro tip is just to make balls. I nod when she says make balls, pretending I know

what that phrase means. A lot of my time in America is spent doing this, just nodding away, pretending I know what the hell is going on. But I never do. Honestly, the better players are good because they do the simple things really well. So when I say make balls, they don't miss. They're not doing all these extra fancy things because the problem with the extra fancy things, it's also high risk. So it's a high reward, but high risk and you might end up missing it. So people are going for shots that they really don't need to go for because they think that's what it takes to be good. Instead of if you just watch the pro, they just don't miss that many balls. Like their error count is so low. So don't smash it. Just keep it simple. Who's your nemesis in the sport? I don't have a nemesis. I don't believe it for a second.

I'll tell you why. Look, obviously there's always going to be pickleball drama because it's just people that you're dealing with and it's competitive. It's very hard for there not to be. But what's unique about pickleball, and I think it's great, especially at the professional level, you have to be somewhat polite and nice and friendly to everybody because partners are very important. Pickleball is unique in the sense that because you have that non-volley zone kitchen line, you can't just take all the balls. So it's very easy if you don't have a great partner just to pick on your partner. So what happens at the professional level, at a certain point, everybody is nice to everybody because you may need to partner with them. It forces everybody to be friendly. What a nice sport. I wonder if it existed in New Zealand when I was at school, I'd be a bit more sporty.

I wasn't a cool kid. I had zits, glasses, braces, and I played the saxophone, which meant I lugged around the saxophone suitcase thing all day. It was social suicide. Maybe pickleball would have made my life better. I would have been more sporty and cool. But then I came back to that name. I mean, all sports names are kind of stupid.

Football, basketball, baseball. We get it. You like balls. But pickleball, that takes it up another notch. I feel like the one thing pickleball has going against it is its name is... Do you know what I mean? It's my personal theory. Something needs to change.

Yes, the name needed to change. The problem is It's my personal theory. Something needs to change. Yes, the name needed to change. The problem is it's now too established, almost to a point. Too many people know about it. Too many people play it. It's gone too far. It's gone too far. The pandemic took it too far.

Yes. Honestly, the name needed to change probably back. I heard about professional pickleball or I saw when it kind of started was like 2016. There was like only three or four tournaments. But that's kind of when you could play a tournament and make some money it wasn't a lot but you could make some I would say back then marketing wise that's when they needed to try to change the name I don't know if they had the vision it was going to become that big the problem is it only became really popular when COVID hit because then it was one of the only sports that people could actually play outside of tennis so I think at that point it was almost too late because that's

2020. I started playing in 2019 and at that point it was more of a professional sport and people like were playing and it was somewhat established. You're totally right it's just that step too far. Yeah it's a little too far now. Before I leave, I ask Jessie if I can have a game with her. She agrees. I would say the lower the ball, the harder it is to hit it hard. If it's high, like if I do this, you can smash that. I won't bore you with the audio, but she won. Left me in her dust.

She also lied to me. What do you feel about my skill level so far? You're like a 2.0. Out of what? The highest I think right now goes to like a 6.5, 7. I tap my paddle on her paddle, knowing I was a.5 at the very best. But she was kind for lying. Yeah?

I'll take that. There you go. I was real bad, but she was really good. It does sound like anyone can play pickleball, but I should say that playing someone that can really play it, you just get demolished. Yeah. Like demolished.

Yeah, she looks like a real athlete. Oh, no, she is. She's like ripped. Wait, let me look her up. Oh, yeah. She's obviously played intense tennis her whole life, and she's a machine, and I just got hugely embarrassed. Oh, wow.

Yeah. You know, she's like athletic as hell. There's all this hugely embarrassed. Oh, wow. Yeah. You know, she's like athletic as hell. There's all this talk of sure anyone can play pickleball. You can play your dad. And it's like not a steep learning curve. But when you actually get good at it, you can get really good. But I like that. That actually legitimizes the sport a bit because.

Totally. Some of this like anyone can play and there's a kitchen in the middle of it, is like, ugh, it makes it sound very silly. I think the name and some of the terminology around it does make it seem really silly, and a lot of people will be put off because of that who want to play it professionally. But it is becoming a really legitimate thing,

and there's a reason those insane athletes have bought into pickleball leagues and are making probably a shit ton of money off it i have to play i really want to get in there and see i think we all need to go out and have a game yeah i think that needs to happen and also i just came across an article i was mentioning how the noise is quite intense right this is a new article headline pickleball sweeps the pacific northwest and so do fights about where to play there's a line in the story the distinctive pop pop pop of the game echoed around the park and into the adjacent neighborhood resident josh hull the graphic designer said the sun genuinely

bothers some people it's a constant thing he said another neighbor a doctor dr dan lavery told the westland city council the noise is so bad it can cause actual physical and emotional distress. Oh, my. And this is a quote from the doctor. One of our neighbors lived directly across the courts and was dying from cancer. He noted that the pickleball noise was worse than his cancer. Which is one of the most amazingly ridiculous quotes i've ever heard yes but the noise i noticed that down in the courts because it's a plastic bat yeah it just really is it's not like

tennis tennis is quite a satisfying kind of a whack yeah this is like in a really incredibly annoying pop interesting there's a lot of debate now about whether we're going to put rubber coatings on the paddle and things like that oh to make the noise but is that's gonna aerodynamics that's gonna change shit up the game it'll all change so yeah there's a lot of debates raging within the pickleball community i wonder something now please i wonder if i have adhd because i started thinking about houston's in the middle of this Just now when you were talking So I only listened to half of what you said

Because I really want A chicken sandwich now It is coming up on lunchtime And now maybe we both have ADHD Maybe we should both do a quiz Okay Because you can do quizzes about ADHD And see whether we feel like we're

pretty reliable pretty reliable internet quiz on adhd yeah yeah take 10 questions i don't think i have it i just like houston's a lot i want to have houston i know you need to because we said we were going to do that in the sandwich episode because you need to try you're afraid of big sandwiches with toothpicks but you're gonna get converted're going to get converted. It gets messy. Anyway. Are you a fan of pickleball? Would you say? What do you think about it?

I'm on the fence. I'm on the fence. I have to play. Okay. I will be honest. It feels a bit silly, but that's not fair. I think everyone agrees with you. But what kind of workout do you like?

How many calories are you burning? You're not running as much as tennis. Right. But you are hitting and you're moving, and so it's better than sitting on the couch. Yes, of course. But it's not as good as – not as good, but not as intense.

It's not as much of a cardio as a game of tennis. Your reflexes are probably tested more in pickleball than tennis. Yeah, you are. Because you're quicker reaction versus – Maybe for age that's good good but maybe they should add some running around the court in the middle some drills yeah in the middle of the game in the middle you can basically fit four pickleball courts on one tennis court oh wow extending out a little bit over the lines okay you can you can fit quite a few on there. So it's a lot smaller. Is the width the same though?

Smaller. Half or just a little bit? About half. Okay. That's not a ton of room. It's small. The bat is smaller. Like it's a smaller bat.

And so there's less surface area to hit it on. So you've really, it is about reflexes. How big is the ball? Like a tennis? It's roughly the size of a tennis ball. Okay. It's a weird little thing. It's got lots of little holes in it. It's like a wiffle ball.

Could you get hurt if it hit you in the head? I got hit in the head once, and it just makes a popping noise. Your head or the ball? My head. Yeah, both. It was annoying, but not too painful. Okay. I weirdly got invited to play pickleball yesterday.

You should do it. Go. You should absolutely play and see what you think of it i enjoyed it it brought out some new emotions in me that i didn't know i had i always tried to go for the tricky shots and those always backfire yeah and that's when i'd start getting angry as well what's a trick shot you were flourishing you know how she said just like make your balls yeah he was not doing i wasn't trying to make balls yeah i was trying to get fancy it just comes over the net so softly and you just go whack and you think it's gonna pulverize them

but it either hits the net or goes way out on the other side and that's when i would just be like motherfucker just so angry oh my god i'd scream at ben i was screaming at ben you fuck just again and again i I was getting really angry. Wow. Did you use any ethnic slurs? No, I didn't. I have limits. I'd turn into a massive racist when I'm on the pickleball court.

No, but just offensive language, you know? I wanted him to die. Did he cry? I said, die, Ben, at one point. Yeah, I said, I hope you die. Oh, my God. And that surprised me. I've never said that to anyone actually because i don't think i've ever wanted but at that moment i wanted ben to die

oh my god moment yeah so i got it i think it's good you didn't get into major sports because if you got that upset during pickleball it might have curbed it if he's never learned how to react to losing or being a good sport. I guess I'm going to go out on a limb and say, if you've played a team sport in your life, you're ahead of the curve socially. I really, really do believe that. I think team sports are so important for young people to understand life isn't just about you yeah and it takes multiple people to achieve something yeah and how to be properly competitive like natalie never played sports and she's crazy at games but yeah i see your eyes you're saying she's crazy i'll call her out when she doesn't i'm'm like, well, this is because you've never played sports.

You don't know how to lose in a game. Right. You get angrier. Sore loser. I think me and Natalie should play pickleball singles and just see which one murders the other first. But it's important. It's a really interesting skill to understand you only have so much control. I think solo sports give you the illusion of full control

and then that's not true and i've never really thought about that side to team so i just i know the sport wasn't for me but i think you're probably right well you are right that's like a huge part of it right yeah so i think you should get doubles pickleball and then maybe you'll start learning faces better after that maybe this is all because you never played sports. Maybe this has been the gif of my life. It's been this thing I've hated the whole time. It has been right in front of me. Aww.

That pickleball. You're wearing a Bucky's hat, I just realized. Yeah. Cool. I'm becoming more American. So yeah, here's to pickleball. That was fun. And team sports.

And Frito. I really like the idea of beating both of you at pickleball. Oh, good luck. It's not going to happen. Yeah. I've got very long lips. Too athletic.

I would say I'm how much more American? 10%. You're more American than us today. We haven't played. There you go. But you're not as American as my foreign dad. I'll never be as American as he is all right thanks monica thanks rob bye you