Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Flightless Bird: Pizza

Episode Date: September 5, 2023

This week on Flightless Bird, David Farrier investigates pizza, one of America’s favorite foods. He discovers that around 76,000 pizza joints bring in $44 billion dollars each year in the US - where every day 13% of the population will eat a slice of pizza. David begins his journey in Los Angeles, as Rob takes him and Monica to a fancy pop-up called “Chain”. Here, chefs riff on chain food but with their own upgraded twists - and tonight it’s Pizza Hut! Next, David heads to New York to eat a variety of NY pizzas, from the cheap slices of Joe’s, to Pauly Gee’s famous Hellboy pizza. What makes a good pizza? There is no clear answer, but Farrier attempts to find out, before going to one last joint - Ops - an upmarket take on what a pizza should be. Along the way, Farrier meets some of those eating the pizza - New Yorkers - who truly love their city. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm David Farrier, and New Zealand are accidentally marooned in America, and I want to figure out what makes this country tick. Growing up in New Zealand, there were a few experiences I remember as a kid that felt just distinctly, incredibly American. And one of those was feasting at the new Pizza Hut that had just opened in town. Gonna hit the hut tonight Hit the hut tonight Hit the hut tonight Oh, Pizza Hut, that's right Treat yourself to Pizza Hut's new all-you-can-eat dessert bar.

Create your own delicious dessert from our mouth-watering selection. Help yourself as many times as you like for just $3.95 when you dine in. Gonna hit the hut, yeah, Pizza Hut tonight. Ah yes, Pizza Hut. Birth in Wichita, Kansas in 1958. That piece of Americana made it all the way to New Zealand and into my mouth. It was the height of luxury in the Farrier household. A weekend treat.

A slice of heaven. God, I still remember the phone number burned into my skull. 0800 838383. Now here I am in America and pizza is all around me. It's one of the United States' favorite dishes. Around 76,000 pizza joints bringing in $44 billion in revenue each year. On any random day in America, around 13% of the population aged two years and over will eat some pizza. Was pizza invented in America? No. But pizza is in America's blood, and now America has become my home, I'd need to learn about pizza. So, spread out that dough, throw on some toppings, and shove it all in the oven, because this is the pizza episode.

Hey Monica. Hi, David. Pizza. I love pizza so much. I like these food episodes because I think we all have it in common, don't we? Sure. We all have to eat to stay alive. Or we'll die.

Or we'll die. And some of us take more enjoyment out of food than others. Yes. And some don't. I think I'm at the lower end. It doesn't take much to make me happy. Yeah. And then Rob and i are on the other end of the scale way other end of the spectrum way at the other end yes i remember when we were doing the live shows and driving around i was driving around with rob and i'd always try and stop at mcdonald's because i love mcdonald's

and his disgust yeah was you could feel it in the car. He would sneak away sometimes. Yeah, well, he needed to get what he wanted, and you needed to get what you wanted, and sometimes that's what you have to do. You have to sneak away. But it was like a crack addict. We'd be getting gas, and he said he'd go to the bathroom, and then I'd see him walk out of McDonald's.

I do love McDonald's, though. But it's hard when you go to other cities, because you want to get the best of that city's food. So where does pizza sit for you as far as foods? It's top three. So good. I love pizza. What is it about it?

I like that the form of pizza makes it so easy to eat. It's a slice can go straight in the mouth. It's also so delicious. And there are so many different forms it comes in. And I think it's one of those weird magical creations. It's just more than the sum of its parts. It should not be that good. It's dough, it's sauce and cheese. That's it. That should be boring, but it's the best food. I mean, I bet if you did a poll in America, that pizza would be what most Americans would say is their favorite food. Yeah, you're talking like last meal, death row.

Exactly. Your last meal you have most Americans slice a pizza. I'm going to say that. It was named the number one comfort food by a wide swath of Americans. See? Yeah, so it's American. Yeah. It's American. It is New Zealand too, yeah? We, so it's American. Yeah. It's American.

It is New Zealand too, yeah? We have it in New Zealand. We have pizzas. One of my favorite things in the Faria household, these little frozen pizzas we'd buy from the supermarket. Right. Put them in a microwave for three minutes. I burnt the roof of my mouth so many times on those microwave pizzas.

Now, are you supposed to put them in the oven and you just decided to put them in the microwave? Uh-huh. Yeah. I was in a rush. I'll be hungry after school. So I'd come back. I'd have Frisky the goat in tow with me because I had a pet goat and he'd go to school with me. No. So have I not told you about Frisky? No. Why do we keep learning the crazy? I love this part of the show. So my dad, my dad's an interesting man because he loves animals as much as I do. He was a veterinarian, so he would care for animals. I remember we'd have ducks in the bath and all these animals around. He also loved hunting, killing them as well.

A complicated man. Wow. Mixed messages. So for a while, my dad tried to get me to go hunting with him. So we had, I don't know much about guns, but I think it was a 38 and maybe a 22. And so we'd have these rifles in the gun cabinet. We'd take them out and go hunting with him. So we had, I don't know much about guns, but I think it was a 38 and maybe a 22. And so we'd have these rifles in the gun cabinet. We'd take them out and go hunting. And it was time for me to spend time with my dad,

you know, traipsing in the woods and stuff. So I'd be like, yeah, I get to spend time with my dad. But it comes at a cost. I have to murder animals, you know, so. Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. So you've killed animals before. Yes. You, David Ferrier, has killed animals There are two photos that exist in the

Archives Archive You know those hunting magazines And you see people standing next to what they've killed Yeah And there's one with me kind of like drenched in blood With a dead goat No

Yeah Frisky? No, not frisky. No, no, no. Come back to frisky. Okay. And one where I'm holding up these two rabbits by the hind legs that I've shot and murdered. I feel like I'm in a fever dream right now.

I don't think this is real. Thinking about it, it's weird. I forget that it ever happened. Did you drag those dead animals into your tunnel? Was your tunnel full of dead animals you hunted? No, it wasn't I would like to say that I didn't take to it So I did it because I wanted to be manly and be like my dad

And my older brother Rob, who would use a bow and arrow He's so masculine, your older brother Rob Yeah, he was really masculine and I was not that But I tried because I wanted my brother to like me And I wanted my dad to love me And so that's sort of, I got sucked into this world At some point, I said, no Okay

I don't like this I like the walking in the forest I like spending time with you But I don't want to kill anything. Yeah, I think that's fair. I would like to say, on behalf of my dad and my brother, we would eat them. Okay. So we weren't just out there sort of slaughtering things.

They'd bring them back, skin them. We had meat in the freezer for the year. They weren't savages. It wasn't for sport. I do think that's better, actually. It is better. Yeah, they weren't just, I'd just like to say that before people turn on my dad. But at one point I said, I don't want to do this anymore.

And so I stopped. Okay. And there was a period where I would go out with them still when they're hunting, but I wouldn't try and kill anything. I'd just go out. Anyway, one day my dad shot a goat. Boom, goat, drop dead. Went up there and then we hear this little. No, I hate that.

I hate this even. Wow. there and then we hear this little no i hate it i hate this even wow and there's this tiny little kid there which is what you call a baby goat also what you call a human it is i just want it wasn't a child okay it wasn't a small child it was a kid it was a baby goat and i said dad don't but you can't kill it like we have to did you. Did you start crying? Jumped in front of it. That's how I imagine it. It definitely didn't happen like that. I would have probably. I said, did you start crying, which I think is maybe more what happened.

I probably did. Yeah, because that's sad. And, you know, my dad's, it's the same. My dad's, you know, he's not a monster. So he's like, yeah, like, we'll take the goat home. Oh, okay. This is so bizarre. Pop the goat in my backpack. Little head was sticking out. the goat home. And so pop the goat in my backpack.

Little head was sticking out, took it home. And Frisky was the most loyal pet I've ever had in my life. He'd come into town with me. He'd walk to my new primary with time outside the school gate. So I'd go in there. I'd come and see him at morning tea break and play with him. And then I'd walk home with him.

We had a morning tea lunch and afternoon tea. Yeah, it's called morning tea. All these kids just drinking cups of tea. Wait a minute. Hold on. How are you dealing with this? First of all, I think Frisky may have had Stockholm syndrome because you quote rescued Frisky, but also you killed Frisky's mom. You murdered his mother. I like to think that, I mean, Frisky loved me, and I love Frisky. It was such a close relationship.

There's potentially times that Frisky had flashbacks to his mother dying and then sort of me approaching, sort of shoving him in my backpack. But, look, Frisky had a great life. Okay. And we were so close. Why are we talking about this? Because of the pizzas. Why the pizzas?

Microwave pizzas because after school. I'm coming home from school with Frisky for a microwave pizza. Back on topic. Did Frisky ever eat any microwave pizzas? Absolutely. He'd have a bite of everything. Goats eat everything. Oh, wow.

So we had to really keep Frisky in our little paddock. What a life. If I could go back in time and watch you live as a 10-year-old. I've had phases. Yeah. I had the hardcore Christian phase. I had the Frisky phase, the hunting phase, sort of a basketball phase for a while. Wow.

Yeah. Tunnel phase. Tunnel? Yeah. But I wasn't in the tunnel with dead animals, for the record. Just let's make that clear. Sort of a basketball phase for a while Wow Yeah Tunnel phase Tunnel? Yeah But I wasn't in the tunnel with dead animals for the record Just let's make that clear There was separate phases Tunnel phase and hunting phase

Okay Anyway Wow I'm so happy we stumbled upon that That was magic That was gold Thank you We probably ate Frisky's mum

Because we killed We probably would have No David Exactly Did Frisky eat him? No You fed the mum to the son no i'm not a

sicko sometimes i wonder so we all ate pizza and the three of us we went on an adventure didn't we and i had my dictaphone with me this is what happened as we journeyed into the world of pizza i'm gonna be honest making a weekly episode about America terrifies me. Off I go each week, diving into a new topic, blindly feeling my way around in the dark to bring you my take on the United States. It's a mission full of peril, more peril than Tom Cruise has ever faced in any Mission Impossible movie. Because I've increasingly come to realize that the United States isn't one place, it's a load of places all thrown in together. So why if I go to investigate

in some small corner of the US making my sweeping generalizations and Kiwi observations, and in doing so offend approximately 98% of the population. And here I am looking at pizza. This episode is a ticking time bomb waiting to go off. There's so many different types and already I can feel Chicago coming for me And here I am looking at pizza. This episode is a ticking time bomb waiting to go off. There's so many different types. And already I can feel Chicago coming for me because in this episode I don't go to Chicago and I don't eat any deep dish pizza. None of it.

Not because I hate deep dish pizza or Chicago, but because good god, I make one of these episodes a week and America's really big. I'm from New Zealand, tiny New Zealand, so cut me some slack and join me as I go and eat some pizza. Not all the pizza in all the places, but some pizza in some of the places. What's the first, what's the first, um, pizza you went, what's the, what? Good God, sometimes I can't even get a question out. Fumbling with my microphone and recorder and windsock, I'm with Rob and Monica. Rob got us tickets for some fancy pants pizza party in Los Angeles called Chain.

Have you had pizza before? First time. Never heard of it. Explain it. No, of course I love pizza. It's my favorite food. It's my island food. If I could have one food on a deserted island.

We're in West Hollywood, which is where a lot of the actory types in LA seem to live. We drove past Quentin Tarantino's theater to get here. Where is here? What is here? I have the same questions. Spike punch? Oh, yes, please. Hello.

Well, Rob knew I liked Pizza Hut, and so he's taken me and Monica to this house that's had its innards transformed into an 80s restaurant chain. Inside, it's 80s and 90s memorabilia from places like Pizza Hut and McDonald's. There's a big purple grimace staring at me right now in the corner. Tonight, a chef is reimagining the Pizza Hut pizza experience with his own Hollywood flavours. This night's about as LA as it gets. I thought I was walking into a house, but it's like I'm in the inside of a beautiful restaurant of some kind. We've had people stand outside for like 10 minutes kind of looking around and the security guard has to be like,

you're in the right place. Tonight it's Pizza Hut night. They even have an old stained glass Pizza Hut lamp hanging in the corner. You'll see in the backyard there's some Pizza Hut touches. The lamp is a new addition. That's Nicholas Kraft talking. Big Pizza Hut fan. King of fast food collectibles. Most of these collectibles actually belong to my father. He was a huge collector.

What's your favorite type of pizza, Rob? Mine's pepperoni. One of my favorite things about Rob is he has a cheeky story for any occasion. Tonight, some family trauma related to Pizza Hut. So when we were kids, we went with my family and my brother unscrewed the red pepper at the table. He thought it would be funny, that'd be a prank. And I would do it occasionally, but he had done it this time. And my dad went to put on his pizza and it spilled all over it. Classic. He got mad and walked home. Blame me for it.

Rob, get over it. Move on. Now Rob sees himself as the foodie of the group and starts prattling on about different types of American pizza, riffing on the Chicago stuff that I'm yet to taste. Detroit does like a similar deep pan style, but it's cheese on top, but a little saucier, I think, and a little thicker crust. It's not really pizza, is it? It's like too much filling. It's like sloppy.

Yeah. Still pizza. It's still pizza. It's lasagna. It's like a sloppy mess though, isn't it? You eat it with a knife and a fork, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's lasagna. It's still pizza. It's still pizza. It's lasagna. It's like a sloppy mess though, isn't it? You eat it with a knife and a fork, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's pizza.

Tonight's pizza is Pizza Hut, but upgraded. The three of us are slumped into a corner as our pizza arrives. Pepperoni, red pepper and mushroom. And then, what this is? Onion, green pepper. Is that pineapple and sausage i think we can all agree that pineapple is the best part of any pizza pizza hut new zealand had a big thing which they probably did here as well where they really got into doing stuffed crust pizzas i wondered if that was going

to be here that was my favorite part about pizza hut was the stuffed crust pizza i did a pizza hut commercial i don't expect anyone to remember that, but I did a Pizza Hut commercial, and it was for, they had a crust with stuffed crust, but they were bites. Does anyone remember that? We don't. But suddenly, I

spot the chef tonight, Tim Hollingsworth. So Pizza Hut, for me, there's like this nostalgic memory of when I was five years old. I was in Texas and Houston at a Pizza Hut. There was a flash flood. So I was hanging out there for like probably like five hours. So that nostalgic memory of that buttery crust and thinking about that taste as a kid,

that's probably my first food memory is Pizza Hut. What does it take to make a good pizza in your mind? I mean, I think pizza is one of those things where there's a lot of different types of pizza, but it's going to start with really, really good bread. And for me, this pizza is that nostalgic, buttery, squishy crust with that caramelized outside. Healthy. Yes, exactly. Before he goes to make more pizzas, Tim drops a bombshell. Are you familiar with ranch and pizza? Not at all. Educate me, exactly. Before he goes to make more pizzas, Tim drops a bombshell. Are you familiar with ranch and pizza? Not at all.

Educate me, please. Are you serious? No, I'm serious. Okay, so this is a very controversial thing. There's people that absolutely are like diehard, do not put ranch on your pizza. I am not that person. I am a diehard, put ranch on every single bite of your pizza. I slop some ranch

onto my pizza, probably too much ranch. Americans love their condiments. Case in point, Rob. Typically, there's three blends of shakers that you're putting on. You got Parmesan cheese, oregano, and then crushed reds, which will make it spicy spicy we're getting full and the pizza sweats are coming on monica's having a bad pizza trip dough deep in her belly as she ruminates on pizza nights of yore so maybe god i'm scared to say in high school it was friday night i really wanted pizza i demanded for my parents that we have pizza that night and they decided to get i don't know healthy or something i don't know they said no and no monica you can't have pizza we're not ordering pizza tonight yes we are i want that i need it it's friday what else why i i couldn't understand because

they wouldn't tell me why they just kept saying saying no, and I threw the biggest tantrum. I can remember that it was so outsized and outrageous. I was screaming. You just wanted pizza. So bad. I think I was malnourished. Mommy, daddy, pizza now. I was too old to call them mommy and daddy.

Mother, father, buy me some fucking pizza. Did it work? No. Tonight is the opposite. Too much pizza. And while it's delicious, it's also completely ridiculous. We're here in LA in someone's house that's been converted to look like a pizza hut, eating schmoozy upmarket pizza that's riffing on what

Pizza Hut does. Why are we not just eating Pizza Hut? Have I sold out? Is this what LA does to you? There are influencers all around me, snapping photographs. They're all beautiful and photo ready. The walls are closing in. There's a caricature artist who's been here staring at us, drawing, and he just delivered the final results rob looks nice monica looks beautiful i look fucking deranged it's time to get the heck out of here so yeah those are my memories of the night it was a really fun night rob thanks for the ticket yeah thank you rob that was a really fun outing for us it was good but look i was thinking out to it it was a great time, but it was crazy.

It's riffing on Pizza Hut. I imagine tickets weren't cheap to get in there. It wasn't like a $4 slice. It was like a really beautiful night. Yeah. So I ordered an old school Pizza Hut. Wow. This is my favorite.

Now, I got this maybe three hours ago now, so it's going to be a little bit cool. That's okay. And I have eaten two pieces. Okay. Great, great, great. But it is fresh. Wow. And this is my favorite.

It's not stuffed crust, but it's Hawaiian. It's my favorite pizza. This is your fave. And it's just very simple. It's got the sauce and the, what else goes on pizza? Cheese, ham. Pineapple. And pineapple.

It'll be a little bit cold. That's fine. You're a no on it? No, you can't. You have to, Rob. You have to. I don't do pineapple pizza. You're doing it today. Just have one bite.

Just the tip. Just put the tip in your mouth. David, don't tell me to put the tip in my mouth. Okay, we're all going to take bites together. I've never had this either. This is very special. It's pretty cold. It's just the basic key flavors.

I don't mind cold pizza, though. That's also a thing. You know, people eat cold pizza. I think next day pizza is the best kind. Getting that pizza out of the fridge. Not heating it. Not heating it. Keep it cold.

It does something interesting to the cheese, which I really like. But I thought we had this fancy pants Pizza Hut pizza. I thought we've got to just have some regular old Pizza Hut. Because I think a lot of people think Pizza Hut shut down. I think we thought it shut down. I thought it did, yeah. In New Zealand, there was a big deal because when the final pizza hut restaurant shut but they keep the takeouts open so you can still get pizza okay and i would argue it's still good listen i think it's similar to what we had i mean we didn't have this

kind you know i'm but that's why it was good it was just like doughy and salty. He like intentionally tries to take flavors from this. Exactly. What was the meat on? Wagyu or something. Yeah, he put some fancy steak on it. Yeah, exactly. Fancy steak. And I think that's the difference.

I think because for you, Rob, that would be, I sometimes feel like I miss out on the meaning of it all. You would have taken more appreciation, whereas I feel like I'm so simple. I have like a slice of regular old Pizza Hut and I sort of get the same level of joy. This is a medium crust. This is medium. Okay. This is medium. The one we had at Chain was a pan pizza. And so pan pizzas are thick. That was thick bread. Huge thick bread. But that is the bread at Pizza Hut. My favorite chain is by far Domino's. Mine's Papa John's.

Oh, I do have a lot of good Papa John's memories. I'll still click in if I'm watching like a football game. If I'm watching sports, I will crave Papa John's and just order it. And eat like a slice and then throw the rest of it away. We used to have in college, Papa John's had college night or whatever. And it was Thursday night and you could get a large pizza for like $1. Not really, but basically. Yeah, I do like it.

But those specials you get with pizza are crazy sometimes. Little Caesars. There was a Little Caesars that was down the street from me growing up. So you'd have the $5 pizza and the crazy bread. I've had that with you, Rob. Yeah, the crazy bread. You got that with me last year. We've got that before.

You got it here? Yeah. Wow. I think it was like going to Utah or something. We got crazy bread. It was a good boys trip. Me and Rob are always cruising around America. You are.

The thing that I think we've talked about this on the show before, we have a chain in New Zealand called Hell Pizza. And here we've got Lucifer's, which I haven't been to yet, but this has reminded me that I should. It's so good. It's so, so good. But we were wondering if they were connected somehow, because the whole thing is the guy on the machine is Australian and Dax always does that. They're all connected and yeah, always controversial marketing plans. As I said, in New Zealand, there was a lot of controversy when a hell pizza opened up in the town of Bethlehem.

Oh, that was a big deal because I thought the Satanists had come and hell was just like, we're just pizza. Stay tuned for more flightless bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Flightless bird is sponsored by better help. Now, Monica, I don't know if you're like me, but do you ever wake up in the early hours of the morning and just have a brain full of thoughts, or is that just me? Oh my god, yes.

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it is buying glasses. And any way that that system can be made easier is good for me. And Wolby Barker is now the thing I use in America because I didn't have a system sorted in America for getting glasses. I did in New Zealand. I'm now here. I've got a pair of prescription sunglasses coming to me. This is very exciting. I just chose it all online. I sent in my prescription. It all just happened magically. I paid for it.

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Ships free and includes a prepaid return shipping label. Try five pairs of glasses at home for free at warbyparker.com. For the next part of the documentary, I head away from Los Angeles, terrified of upmarket pizza of Los Angeles, and get into some, arguably some better pizza, but we can discuss that soon. Did anyone order me plain cheese? Oh yeah, we did. But if you want any, somebody's going to have to barf it all up. Yeah we did. But if you want any, somebody's gonna have to barf it all up. I've seen enough movies to know that America is where you go to get pizza. And often I'm thinking Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, John Travolta and Saturday Night

Fever. It's New York pizza all the way. So I've come to New York to learn more about pizza. And right now I'm sitting on the sidewalk in Greenpoint with Kyle Driscoll. I'm a pizza maker here at Pauly G's Pizzeria in Brooklyn. I'd randomly just wandered into Pauly G's about two minutes ago because it smelled really good. I told him the spiel. New Zealander, stranded in America, started a podcast and he's into it. I associate New York with pizza. As far

as America goes, is New York the place where you should come for good pizza? Or are there other states or cities that do it as good or better? Or I probably shouldn't say better because I'm in New York, but. No, we definitely do it the best. I mean, it's New York. There's a huge culture around it, right? I mean, you see a pizza slice shop on every single corner,

whether it's Dollar Slice or a more premium product like ours. So I think the culture is really what's driven it here. Can you get great pizza elsewhere? Absolutely. I'm from Albuquerque, New it here. Can you get great pizza elsewhere? Absolutely. I'm from Albuquerque, New Mexico originally. We have an awesome pizza place there. I've had good pizza in a lot of different places.

And then the styles are different, right? Chicago style, Detroit style. So it really depends. But I mean, for a classic slice and a thin slice crust, there's no better place than New York City. What is this pizza joint best known for? We're best known for our Hellboy slice, which is a slice of pepperoni drizzled with Mike's hot honey,

which is a chili-infused honey. It's not too spicy, but very good. We're the first ones to do it. I have a Hellboy slice right in front of me. I'm salivating. Genuinely. 2pm, with a mouthful of saliva slopping around. Optimal time to eat a slice of your pizza?

Anytime. Anytime. Yeah, I mean, I had one for breakfast this morning and, you know, I worked last night and I had one before I left as well. So, no, anytime. The whole beauty of pizza is it's grab and go. Something quick, delicious. Right now in front of me, I have a plain cheese slice

and that Hellboy slice, which is square shaped. What the Hellboy squared, which is square shaped. What the Hellboy squared is, is a Sicilian style slice. So it's a thicker rectangle. It's actually a square slice. We've got sesame seeds on the bottom and then it's an upside down slice, almost like a grandma slice. So it's cheese, sauce, and then we put the pepperoni on top. And then once it comes out of the oven, it's drizzled with Mike's hot honey.

With so many pizza places in America and so many here in New York, Kyle tells me that it helps for each pizzeria to set itself apart somehow. Every pizzeria is a little bit different. I think what makes ours different is, one, the water content, if you're going to get geeky and get into the dough stuff, but the water content obviously makes it different. One of the busiest things to compare it to is, think about whiskey. Bourbon has to be made in America, but it doesn't have to come from Kentucky. But most of it does come from Kentucky. And the reason being is the water table there and the water content. So when you think about things like pizza and bagels here in

the New York and tri-state area, the water content is extremely important. Now, percentage of water in the dough is just going to depend on what type of dough it's going to be, whether it's going to be something more like our square slice, which has a little bit more water content and some oil, or the classic New York style slice, which has a little bit less water content. And there's another subtle difference in the pizza I'm eating right now. And if Kyle hadn't told me, I wouldn't have noticed. This pizza stuff is complicated. Basically, it's a Sicilian style slice, but we use sesame seeds underneath on the crust, which is something pretty unique. I feel like it's a little bit heavier while it's a nice fluffy light dough.

What's the importance of dough versus toppings? How does that work? Oh, I think they're both just as important. You can kind of cover up not as good dough by using better ingredients, but the two need to be married together in order to make the perfect slice. I've seen a lot of people sort of folding their triangular pizza and then shoving it in their mouth. Is that something you're meant to do? I think so. It's just an easier way to eat it. And you should have some flop at the end too. When you fold it in half, you should flop a little bit at the end. Look, the way you burn the roof of your mouth is putting the hot cheese right on your mouth. So you fold it in half, you semi-avoid that and you just burn the sides of your mouth, right? I've done that many, many times. I'm

incredibly greedy. What mistakes do people make when they're making pizza? If I'm making them at a friend's place, sometimes you can go overboard on the toppings, right? And the whole thing just becomes like a soggy mess. Yeah, that's a big one. Definitely too much. The other thing is if the oven's not hot enough, you're never going to really get a crust on the bottom. I feel like I could quiz them all day about Sicilian pizza, but it was time to get back to work, as in go somewhere else and eat more pizza. But one final important question.

Thoughts on pineapple on pizza? We debate this all the time in the slice shop. I personally think it's pretty good. Is it? That's the correct answer. Look, it's personal preference. We have a lot of great vegan slices. I don't eat vegan.

So to me, it's personal preference. But as far as traditional toppings go, it's probably not considered one. I think it's fair to say that Paulie G's Slice Shop was a mid-priced pizza option, between four and five dollars a slice. It wasn't the influencer pizza I'd had in LA, but it also wasn't the greasy dollar slice. I needed a greasy dollar slice, so I head to Joe's, which has a few locations now in Brooklyn and Manhattan. Joe's is well known here. On the wall, there's a treasure trove

of celebrity photos who've dined in. I spot Danny DeVito, Kevin Bacon, Pee Wee Herman. My name's Tony Cosentino. Joe's Pizza was started by Josephino.

Yeah, he just passed away this year, but he was the founder and the owner of Joe's. And started in 1975 in this store, which is in Greenwich Village. It's on Bleeker Street, and they just moved down the street here to this location. It's on the same block.

Joe's is now run by Joseph's grandkids. It's all the goodwill of Josephino, man. He was one of the best pizza guys ever in New York. We all learned from the traditions that he created and we kept it real for all these years. So we haven't really diverted much from the original plans at all. I can remember coming in as a kid

when I was like 12 years old and it's the same exact thing now. What defines Joe's? So what defines Joe's is the quality. Perfect thin slice with the perfect crust. Excellent sauce to cheese ratio. It's amazing. You can see how the sauce bleeds through just slightly.

And, you know, our fresh mozzarella pie. We use all the best and fresh ingredients. We make all our dough fresh in the morning. We even season our vegetables. We cook our spinach in the morning. We do it. Amazing. The flavor is amazing.

The flavor is impeccable. Impeccable impeccable I'm full from the two bits of pizza I've already had today but I get the cheese slice there's always room for cheese the guy next to me Brandon has two slices on his paper plate he's a regular here do you mind just telling me what you've got in front of you here a normal cheese slice with Sicilian slice. Yeah, that's pretty much what I get almost every day over here. So it's like best of both worlds, right?

Pretty much, yeah. It fills you up for the rest of the day. For pizza too, I really don't judge on it. Even pizza that's like a dollar is even good. But it's been getting pricier lately over here. I've noticed this. Yeah, it's like a dollar fifty, something like that now, for those.

Everything's going up in New York, right? That's pretty much what's going down, yeah. The more people come in, the more everything gets costly. How long have you been in New York for? Since I was born, 26 years. Do you ever leave? Probably not. Usually when you're here, you usually get stuck here.

But not me. I'm not stuck here. As I leave to go out the door, Tony chips in, reminding me that yes, New York is all about pizza, but it's also about the people that eat it. New York is neighborhoods. The neighborhoods have such a rich history to it. It's such diversity in New York. And I think we get a lot of electricity from that, a lot of energy from that.

It's so amazing. And everyone loves it. You're proud when you're born and raised in New York, man. There's no better city in the world. Okay. So I've had my $5 slice at Paulie G's and my $3.75 slice from Joe's. My final New York pizza destination sees me at a more upmarket pizza spot. My name is Mike Fadum. I have two pizza shops in Brooklyn, New York. Two seems greedy. Why have you got two?

Well, it's a big city, and I think what we do is a little unique in the pizza world. So I thought it'd be cool to do one wood-fired pizzeria in a really inconvenient place, really tiny, and one deck oven, like New York-style pizza, in a very populated, very convenient location. Right now, I'm at the ladder, at Mike's Place Ops in Brooklyn.

They have a fancy natural wine selection here, and it feels more restaurant than pizzeria. Someone completely ignorant to pizza, like what does set your pizza apart from the other pizza in the city? Well, yeah, so it's sourdough and it's like a pretty long fermentation that it never sees refrigeration. Ops prides itself in knowing where all its ingredients come from, from places like Utah and Pennsylvania, New Jersey and upstate New York. The pizza from the flour up is all organic.

They're texting the farmers directly each week. It's all very farm-to-table, a term American foodies love using. Because of the fermentation we do, it's super digestible. I had a guy in here last night, he was like, I've just had over a whole pizza myself and I don't feel full. I think another interesting thing about New York and why pizza is such a big deal here is I think New Yorkers are like really particular about prices of food everything's available all day every day and it's like available in every corner you can get anything so I think with food New Yorkers are like really aware of the prices and I think that's just part of like the New York savviness everybody's

like got their thing they've like figured out where to get the best bodega sandwich or where to get the best slice of pizza, you know. I guess it's time to eat more pizza. Mike has a suggestion, his favorite here. I would always go with the Cicero, which is this onion pizza that's surprising and really satisfying. He says I can come back into the kitchen while he makes it. So I follow him there where he grabs a ball of dough that's been fermenting away. And so now what I need to do is make it the size of a pizza. So I have to stretch it. We kind of do it carefully because we want to maintain all that nice air and strength we built all day.

Dough stretched. It's topping time. So this is the Cicero. This is kind of like, I don't know, I think this is like the most unique pizza we do. Sun-dried tomatoes that are like marinated in this like kind of like vinegar, olive oil. Wild oregano from Sicily. Strength. So we came up with this four or five years ago, and it's just like a blend of lots of spring onions and scallions.

All the stuff that's like fresh this time of year, as opposed to cured onions that are stored. He does some other magic, throws some other stuff on, stretches the dough out a bit more, then it's in the oven. The dough's stretched so thin it cooks pretty fast in a giant pizza oven. How long does it stay in here for? About two minutes, a little over two minutes. So quick. Yeah. It took a little longer than most Neapolitan pizzas get cooked, because in Naples people eat with their fork and knife, and in New York people eat with their hands. Two minutes is up, the pizza is out. We add a little finishing touches, it's kind of another specialty of ours, is how we finish things. I did a little bit of lemon,

a little bit of black pepper, and it'll be a little bit of olive oil, like fresh oil, just to kind of give a little pop. How quickly should you eat it after it's come out of the oven? Pretty fast. This style of pizza, it deteriorates really quickly. I grabbed my pizza and shoved a slice into my mouth before it even had a chance to deteriorate. I wasn't here to muck around.

This is fantastic. Those onions. I was worried when you said onions because I was like so intense, but this is just very subtle and it tastes delicious. Look, I'm now Anthony Bourdain, and to be clear, every pizza I've tasted today I've described as delicious. It's a pizza's world here in New York, and I'm just living in it pizza I've tasted today I've described as delicious. It's a pizza's world here in New York and I'm just living in it. I've loved all the pizza I've had today. My belly's full and I'm happy. So when I take the subway and accidentally go in the completely wrong direction,

I don't get angry. I just sit in the knowledge that I've had the best day a boy could ask for. And as I go to sleep that night, belly full of dough and drenched in pizza sweats, I think back to something Kyle at Paulie G's had told me about how he picks the best pizza in town. It's sage advice we can all use. Support local. Go try every new spot. You don't know if it's good. Don't listen to the reviews. Go try it yourself.

If you don't like it, don't go back. Shop with your dollars. Shop with your dollars. I ate a lot of pizza. I'm really jealous. It was a really good day, just traipsing around. I had no idea that water content was such an important part of the dough. You got to have a bit of flop at the end. I learned that. I didn't know that you folded the pizza. I thought you folded it so it didn't all sort of slop off onto the ground, but it's also to avoid burning your mouth which i wish someone had told me years ago because i've burnt my mouth so many times well

are pizza sweats a thing in new zealand that's not a thing here no one says pizza sweats you say meat sweats pizza sweats they're a cousin of the meat is that a new zealand thing or a david it's a david but it's like too much of anything and you're sweating it out. I feel like when I had too many Philly cheesesteak sandwiches, it was like the Philly cheesesteak sweats. That would be meat sweats for sure. That would be meat sweats. Horrible.

You know when you wake up and you're just drenched in such a shock? No. You're just drenched in sweat. Such a shock. You're like, what the? Oh, I'm just being here sweating for hours. My body's woken me up because it's so disgusting.'s what it was like we could literally do a year on pizza so there's just absolutely no way we can touch it all but even just within new york there are fancier

ones they're right yeah i mean ops was the fanciest i did that was like a sit down that they really made it sure it was like organic and fancy pants wait how much was that 20 ish dollars that kind of thing you know you get your orange wine and all that kind of thing it was perfect for me so i love that i also i didn't include in the doc but i had one of those cheesy slices just from little stands that you get when you're so many of those you did it felt like there was like no way that's the thing with pizza. You can't go wrong. Right. Right? I kind of feel that way, too.

I don't think I've ever had an absolutely disgusting piece of pizza. Yeah, so I can't do this. Because I normally go plain cheese. That's my go-to. So it's really hard to seriously fuck up. But if it's good, it's another level. It's cosmic. Have you had New Haven-style pizza? What is that like? It's like New York, but's another level. It's cosmic. Have you had New Haven style pizza? What is that like?

It's like New York, but they cook it at a higher temperature. So is it crispier? New Haven usually has a slightly charred crust. It's so good. I like it better than New York pizza. But what's the difference? So many types of pizza. Well, and then in Naples, I mean, Naples, the mother of pizza.

What a place. I've never been. I really want to go for the pizza. So New Haven style pizza is made using a coal-fired oven. And the dough ferments longer than New York style. So it makes it crispier crust and tastier. Is it thin? It's thin, yeah.

Okay. I had another experience when I was in Times Square, because I thought you have to go to Times Square in New York. Sure. And I went to somewhere I'd always wanted to go, which was the M&M store. Oh, my God, David. You are such a kid. I was full of pizza.

You're a kid. Ding, ding, ding. Frisky. Oh, Frisky. I wish Frisky was still here. He died. Old age. I went to the M&M's store.

They've got the big tubes of M&M's, and you can get a bag, and you can get as many as you want of any M&M's. I know. And I pulled on the little handle to let the M&M's out. I'm very strong, and I pulled a bit too hard, and it just erupted With M&M's And I was panicking I shut it off

But a lot of them went in a little trench And sort of went down They must recycle them Ew I hope not That's disgusting And the staff member yelled at me And got me in trouble And I went bright red

I felt like I was eight again And I was like it's not my fault If I'm too strong They shouldn't come out that fast. I don't think they're used to adults using the handles. It just made me feel, you know when you get told off by someone in a store and you feel like a child again. That's how I felt. Yeah, well you probably felt like they were abusing their power or something. I just felt sad. They were good. I had so many different flavors.

I wonder if me and you had gone together on this pizza trip, it would have been so different, I think. Do you think you wanted to go to Times Square to see all the lights? If you went with anyone. No, because some people are more, I think in a positive way, they're more chill. I am very strict on vacations. If you said, I want to go to the M&M store, I'd say no.

Like my parents said no to me with the pizza. Do you know what it is? Have you been? Everyone's seen. Yeah, everyone knows. You can get every kind of M&M in the one place. Why don't you just go to the grocery store and buy the M&M? There's so many more flavors

what kind i got one that was like a peanut butter they have that do they they have peanut butter m&ms that's red everyone oh there were so many flavors listen have you been to roberta's no roberta's is now here but i think was in new? I just moved here. It's very good pizza. Okay. They have one called the bee sting or something. Sounds scary. It has a hot honey on it. It is really good. You'd like it, Rob. I don't know about you, David.

Hot honey is a good idea. Also, speaking of bee stings, have you noticed how as an adult you never get stung by a bee? When you're a kid, you're always getting stung by bees as an adult. I've never gotten stung by a bee when you're a kid you're always getting stung by bees as an adult i've never gotten stung by a bee in your life oh wow i always i'm afraid i'm like the kid and what's that movie macaulay culpin oh yeah my girl my girl though like i don't know i'm allergic and it's all over yeah it's so weird the bee sting the last time i got stung i was in college that's kind of old that's sort of an adult what was happening just running around and being beat Yeah, it's so weird, the bee sting. The last time I got stung, I was in college. That's kind of old.

That's sort of an adult. What was happening? Just running around in bare feet? What happened? We were tailgating and I got stung. Oh, actually, my best friend Callie got stung last year at a tailgate as an adult. The bees know where to go. It's like when everyone's drunk and free. I had a friend that got stung while we were camping.

He had a beer and it went into his beer and he drank and it stung him on the lip. Wow. So apparently it happens a lot. I had a friend that got stung on like, not the eyeball, but the eyelid. And it just went crazy. They're also all dying. So maybe that's all that's happening is that the bees are all dead. Which is awful because

they're the ones that keep the planet running yeah they sure do so we've decided that this pizza hut was the hawaiian was okay the hawaiian was definitely okay yeah oh we already got rob's topping that's um pepperoni pepperoni i'm normally cheese straight. Or sometimes I'll go onion, mushroom, pepper. Bell pepper. Yeah. Tri-tip steak. With tri-tip steak. Exactly.

And I'm the old. Oh, sausage. Yeah, actually sausage. Yeah. The old ham and pineapple. And you're ham and pineapple. Yeah. We're all different.

It says something about us. It's humanity. We're all got different things we like. And yet we can all come together and agree that the pizza is good. Do you think pineapple and ham was invented in New Zealand? I could kind of see that, actually. I wish it was. I'd like to take credit. It wasn't. It is a popular topping in New Zealand. I think it's Hawaiian. It's called the Hawaiian. Yeah, I imagine it was invented in Hawaii, but we have a lot of it in New Zealand. Maybe because we're also a small island. I don't know.

It was created in Canada. Yeah. What? By a Greek immigrant called Sam Panopoulos. That adds up. There's no way a Hawaiian made it and then called it a Hawaiian pizza. That's so obvious. It's so true.

God, the origins of things, you never know, do you? You never know. Well, this was delicious. Pizza. I bet everyone who listened is ordering pizza tonight. I hope they are. And, you know, whatever pizza you're into, that was delicious. Pizza. I bet everyone who listened is ordering pizza tonight. I hope they are. And, you know, whatever pizza you're into, that's okay. If people tease you for liking one sort of pizza,

I'm just trying to take a lesson from this. If someone teases you for going to the M&M store, they should be teasing you because you're an adult. And if you don't want to shoot animals, you don't want to bond with your father, just say, Dad, I'm sick of killing. Let the animal live. And on that note.

Bye. Bye.