Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Flightless Bird: Possums

Episode Date: August 13, 2024

This week on Flightless Bird, David Farrier investigates why American opossums are so different to New Zealand possums. Speaking of which - why does one have an “O” in front of them? To find answers, David meets up with a possum called Horace, and learns that contrary to popular opinion possums are not related to rats. In fact possums have many amazing traits including being pretty much immune to rabies, being living fossils, and masters at playing dead. While New Zealand possums are terrible for the environment, the possums Farrier discovers in LA are very different beasts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm David Farrier and New Zealand are accidentally marooned in America and I want to figure out what makes this country tick. If you've been listening to this podcast for a while you'll probably be aware that I like animals, and at times that's landed me in trouble as documented in the rabies episode from last year. The thing is, whenever I see a squirrel it seems like a small miracle they exist at all, they're like a cute cartoon come to life. But I also know that to an American, a squirrel is about as interesting as a pigeon.

I think it boils down to the fact that there are certain animals Americans seem to view as pests. I'm talking squirrels, coyotes, raccoons. And I'm talking a possums. The first time I saw an American possum, I thought it was one of the most deranged looking things I'd ever seen. Bulging red eyes, disgusting long rat-like tail, a hissing mouth filled with razor-sharp teeth. It's like God had gotten bored on day seven, putting all his leftover bad ideas into the one remaining creature. Back in New Zealand, possums look totally different. If you're not driving now, Google New Zealand possum and take a look. They're smaller,

they're softer, they're much, much cuter looking. The polar opposite to what exists here in America. I needed to find out more about the American possum, a creature that once walked alongside dinosaurs 70 million years ago. So, lock up your rubbish and prepare to play dead, because this is the Possum episode. I'm a flyless bird, touchdown in America. I'm a flyless bird, touchdown in America. Okay, we've got a lot to talk about. I think this is going to be quite a contentious episode because you don't like animals. And I love animals. Yeah. And this is all about me loving animals.

I respect your love. To be animals. I respect your love. To be honest, I respect your dislike. It's bold to say I don't like this thing. It's so easy just to go along saying, oh yeah, or saying quite, you're like, no, fuck it. I don't like that thing. And I think that's fine. Not everyone likes what everyone else likes. I think most people don't, but they're just afraid to be outcasted.

Completely. We're agreeing. We're meant to be having conflict. Wow. I was reading about podcasts and how conflict makes a good podcast. Oh really? And you were like, fuck. And then it's funny, we don't have enough conflicts. This is the conflict episode. Okay. Then I hate you. And I hate you for hating all animals.

But one thing I did want to raise, and this ties in with this whole theme of me trying to figure out America and it relates to the podcast This is a good segue before we get into possums another contentious issue time. I wanted to talk about arrival times Okay, because today really I turned up after you you were here first Yes, and that's because I've been watching a movie on Netflix called Under Paris, which is about a shark living under Paris. Under Paris? No. I highly recommend it. Mainly because it's a very earnest film. It's not silly. It takes itself incredibly seriously. But are you laughing? No. Okay.

It's deadly serious. I've never treated the idea of a shark living under Paris in the catacombs as seriously as this film. And how do you feel about sharks? I love a shark. You do? They get a rough time because obviously we're scared of them ever since Jaws and we kill them for different beauty care products.

And for me, I shouldn't kill a shark. They're a beautiful animal, misunderstood, beautiful creatures. We had an armchair anonymous story. I think for me, the craziest one we've had in the whole breath of armchair anonymous, a shark attack. Oh, bad David. Yeah. An attack is bad, but rare.

I mean, I don't want to be in one. I never want to be attacked by a shark. It's one of my worst nightmares, but so, so rare. I'm going to get skewered for this, but this is conflict episode. Conflict episode. And did you say there's a podcast or a guy or some show or something where someone is making the argument that certain animals shouldn't exist? Yeah.

It's an old Rage of Ace show with Kyle Pilkington. He'd always talk to scientists and argue why we should just get rid of a certain animal because they're so useless. And I think what if we got rid of the shark, what would happen? It's a really good question. What would happen to the animal kingdom? Yeah, because they're sort of top dog of the ocean. So I wonder if you got-

What, whales? Whales, but they're not killing anything. Exactly. They're bigger. So, case closed. Exactly. So I'm happy to keep them because I'm not sure whale attacks. What I'd like to see is if you got rid of sharks, obviously eat a shitload of stuff

in the ocean. What populations would then sort of suddenly would we suddenly have millions more seals knocking about, you know, eating swimmers or something. Would seals turn on us then? That's fair. Flesh eating amoebas. Maybe those would come up. That's the crazy thing. You take one animal out, some other shit goes crazy. I know.

Which relates back to possums because they originally imported possums to New Zealand to help with the fur trade. It's going to be a positive, but then possums got completely out of control in New Zealand. And whilst they are much cuter than the American possum, they also eat all our native bird eggs and they strip our forests of all their greenery. And so it's a great dichotomy, which we'll get into with the New Zealand possum is much cuter and more petable.

Well, we're going to petable. Petable. You can pet them. Oh, well you, we can't actually, you want to pet them. Oh God. Okay. This. We don't have rabies, so it's safer. But they're much more of a terror to the environment. Whereas the American possum, as I learned, is a great gift to the environment.

Interesting, okay, and also misunderstood, because it's ugly. The American possum is so ugly. But look, hold on, I don't think we wrapped up what we were saying. No, we're on so many tangents. I was late here, because I'd been watching Under Paris, which is about a shark under Paris.

That's all in the title. That made me late. And it made me think when I arrived, typically I'm here for maybe five to 10 minutes before you roll in. We usually record say 11 a.m. You'll come in at say 11.05 a.m. And it got me thinking about how I think New Zealanders generally we are on time. If something's at 11, we're there at 11.

And I noticed this because my friend Andrew, he's a New Zealander. He's dating an American. She had a birthday party. Her birthday party on the invite said seven o'clock at her house. Got there at seven. Oh no, David. Cause it's, that's what it fucking said. And it was me, Kiwi, Andrew, and two other Kiwis.

Oh wow. No, I don't think even his girlfriend had turned up. She was her house. Where was she? So, no, she was there. The Americans turned up about an hour and a half. Fuck. Later.

And I want to know What am I doing wrong? Okay? Okay? Let's talk about this first of all was this at her house or was it? I have it was at her house at a house. Yeah, it was a house party was it a small gathering I'd say more people invited than could comfortably fit in the house like 50 no maybe 20 okay fit in the house. Like 50? No, maybe 20 people. For New Zealanders, 16 Americans. Okay.

I think an hour and a half late is pretty drastic for a house party if it's 20-ish people. If it's like a party of 50 people, yeah, that's about right. Like you need to roll in about an hour after the invite. That indicates it's going to be more of like a rager, right? Right. Or just like you, you'll talk to some people, then you'll talk to other people. It's not intimate. See, if I arrive at time to a party of 50, I'm the punisher. I'm the one that's the awkward early arrival and the host will kind of be going,

Oh God, David's here. Oh my God. He's here right at, he's early. And it's just me and David. And I have to entertain this person for an hour before people actually turn up. I'll say you've never been on time or early to anything at my house. Wow. Out. So. Wow.

This is, wow. Okay. This is the beef episode. This is good. I also don't think it's an American thing to be late. Cause I'm not late. You're early. Yeah. I'm I'm not late. You're early. Yeah.

I'm like half hour early. Rob is early. I think it's a personality thing, but- Yeah, party starts at 6pm, Rob's there at midday. I know better- I'm here! I know better than to show up early for parties. On time, a little late, early, that's a style of personality for work and appointments and meetings.

That's one bucket. Parties is a completely separate bucket in America. All right, so this dinner party that was pushing it, the hour, when should I turn up to a dinner party of 20 people? 20 people, I would. I think dinner party changes it too than just like a regular party.

Right, so that's what I was saying is the level of intimacy matters here. So if it's a small group, which normally is a dinner party, you don't wanna be that late. That's rude. Also, if she's cooked something, that's rude, because then it'll get cold. So you have to take all of these things into consideration.

If it's just like a night party and everyone's just mingling, there's just snacks out, it's cash, I would say get there, if the invite says seven, between 7.30 and eight. Wow, yes, this is blowing my mind. If it's at a bar or something, eight. Yeah, an hour late. Holy shit.

Do you leave late or do you leave early? When do you leave the body? Am I meant to be leaving way earlier than I am? I'm still there five in the morning. Oh, are you the last person standing? You're the first person there. Can I sleep on the couch? You're the last person.

I'm waking up there in the morning. They're like, what the fuck are you doing here? Go home. I felt like when we had the dinner party at my house, frozen food dinner party, it was like natural ending. You felt it, right? Pelted. It was like, it's time to go.

I never want to be last man standing. I come late, not too late, but I come late. And then I leave early-ish. You're there for 20 minutes. Yeah, basically. No, this has been super helpful. I think this on time thing, I need to just push it a little bit later.

Okay. Let me tell you something though. I've been meaning to tell you both this for weeks and I keep forgetting. Yeah. There is a reason I arrive at 1105 every day on Fridays. Cause that's when we record. It is. I park in the diary. It says 11, 11 AM.

I've been meaning to tell you guys just I'm coming at 11.05 and this is why. OK. I park on Hobart. Friday's street cleaning is from 9 to 11. So I park at 11. So I don't get a ticket and then I have to walk from Hobart. It takes about five minutes. So that's what's happening. That is such a good explanation. It's so annoying because I can't get annoyed at that. That completely makes sense. Because I should have said, I just forgot every time I pull up at 11, I'm like, fuck, I got to tell them that this is what's happening.

And then I forget. For a conflict episode, we're actually getting on quite well. And today I had a meeting at 1030 at my house and it got cancelled. For breakfast? No, meeting at a house. My like a walkthrough for my house and it got canceled. Breakfast? No, like a walkthrough for my new house. Oh, I see. It got canceled when I got there.

So that's why I was early. I don't think you were late today. You were on time. Actually, I was on time, but it felt late because usually I'm here about 10 minutes early. I looked like sweaty and I'd been here for 25 minutes. Final thing, and I'm hoping this will cause some of the conflict, which will make the podcast very popular.

We're not doing great on conflict. I noticed something when you sent an email the other day, because all occasion email with notes and things about the show. Yeah. But I notice that you have something you must change and will fix this on your phone. All right. You have the sign off Monica or M. And under that sent from my iPhone. Yeah since baby reindeer I have to take that off. Yeah, I lost it

I've never laughed so hard just because I haven't really thought about in a while But I think most people don't know don't have it But since baby reindeer the other thing I thought you could do, which would be quite creative is misspell it. Yeah, I would say spell it. And your default. And that would create that's hilarious. A lot of loss. But I can't do it because it would be disingenuous

because I haven't finished the show. I understand. Yeah. That would be weird. Like I'm taking on this cultural phenomenon, but I didn't even really do it. Haven't gotten there yet. Has anyone bought this up yet? No one has brought this up. This will be interesting.

I wonder if anyone will. Okay, but the reason- I might be too scared. The reason it's funny that she did that is because she wasn't sending from her iPhone. Totally. She was just trying to posture that she had this expensive bit of technology. But I am sending from my iPhone. I want to be clear.

Just look at your phone over there. I want to be clear that that's where it's coming from. That would be such an amazing twist if you didn't have a little sad side. That would destroy me. I was sending from my desktop. Wow, is this real? Should I delete it?

Have you noticed it? No. I know plenty of people that still have that. Okay. I might've just not noticed it in a while and I was just in a mood when I got there I just started laughing so much now. Is this something I need to go into my settings and do I think it's in a settings thing It's like this. It's a quite a amazing thing that Apple did years ago It's like when they snuck that you to album onto an iPod to make YouTube popular again

Just literally building and advertising to your email. It's true. Cause I remember when that first happened, I was like, oh, they've got an iPhone. It was like, it was a thing where I'm like, oh, maybe I should get an iPhone. I think it's unnecessary at this point. I think people assume that you're responding from your phone a lot of the times.

Yeah, that was back in the day when seeing an email from a phone was novel. Yeah. And then she had like a Blackberry. Excuse the brevity. Yeah. And then she had like a Blackberry. Excuse the brevity. Yeah. On my iPhone. Cause you're full of typos.

This is weird. You're right. Yeah. I'm looking at like a full chain. It's just like such a funny flex. Wow. Because often- And other people on the chain, are they doing sent from my iPhone? Well, this is what I'm looking at.

It's just me. Okay. Wow. Yeah. I think people have updated their iPhone signature now to just be regular. Hold on. It's not on all of them. Maybe it's on a new message, just not when you're doing replies. It might be like a fresh email.

Okay. If you want to remove it and a warning, this is the AI overview that fucking Google's just summarized. You go to the settings, tap mail, sleek signature, tap inside the sent from my iPhone field, delete the signature or write whatever you want. And there you go. I'm not ready to pull the trigger on this. I admire that. You do you.

You're being honest. It is sending it from your iPhone. Oh my God, but does no one else? No, it's just you. Oh no! I have seen other people still use it. It's usually older people though. Right. I mean... but does no one else? No, it's just you. I have seen other people still use it. It's usually older people though. Or like people that don't know technology. Yes, which is me.

Yeah, that is me. Look, I'm me. What can I do? You're you. What can you do? That's a good slogan. Quite good for therapy. That's what I'm going to tell my therapist. The problem is if you say it about yourself, it doesn't rhyme. That's what good slogan. Quite good for therapy. That's what I'm gonna tell my therapist.

The problem is, if you say it about yourself, it doesn't rhyme. That's what's annoying. Yeah, it's a trouble. Yeah. Fuck, it was almost gonna be perfect. Wow. I'm gonna be paying attention to this for a bit.

Who still has it and who doesn't. Keep an eye on it. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Helix. I've been sleeping on my Helix mattress, I know I've talked about this before, for about three years now and I really, really like it. And you probably will too. The Helix lineup offers 20 unique mattresses which include the ultra award winning Lux and ultra premium elite collections. Also the Helix Plus which is a mattress

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this episode of flightless bird is brought to you by booking.com booking. yeah it's finally time for summer travel and I am pumped because I like traveling I like traveling for myself and I like traveling for this show yes it is so fun I do get very excited about summer travel. What's your favorite place to travel to in America that's not going home like where would you New York? New York. Yeah I think I am gonna go back in the summer. Very exciting. Booking.com offers so many possibilities across the US for all the travelers you want to be. Booking.com's

wide breadth of places to stay across the US make booking whoever you want to be this summer So so easy from family-friendly vacation homes to picturesque villas. There are so many great choices on booking.com So what are you waiting for this summer? You can book whoever you want to be on booking.com Booking. Yeah, check out booking.com to book today Alright, possums. Possums are a, like all those topics we talked about, a contentious issue. Okay, also possums are timely because of the rodent boyfriend trend. Oh, Ratboy Summer.

Ratboy Summer, you know about this. I like that you know that. Just Ratboy Summer is one of the- Do you know it from TikTok? How do you know it? I'm of the age I'm at. I like that you know that. Just Ratboy Summer is one of the, yeah. Do you know it from TikTok? How do you know it? I'm of the age I'm at, I'm 41. So I got it from TikToks, which had been republished on Instagram,

which is my main home. I'm into anyone a bit sort of quirky looking, being the thing. Same. That's great. Yeah, I'm into it. Did you watch Challengers? I watched Challengers. What did you think?

I loved it. Same. I was super biased going in because I love this band Nine Inch Nails Did you watch Challengers? I watched Challengers. What did you think? I loved it. Same. I was super biased going in because I love this band, Nine Inch Nails and Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross scored the whole thing with this like very pumping, techno, sexy score. I didn't realize it was them. Yeah, it's like a really, you wouldn't listen to it

cause it's just so over the top and ridiculous. Well they've also done social network. Yeah, so many good scores. I thought it was so sexy and so fun. Tennis is the one sport that I'm kind of capable of playing. I understand the rules. Right. And I kind of understand what's happening. OK, I loved it, too.

I also thought it was so sexy. The boys are, I guess, in this rap boy category. They're rap boys. But I don't like that phrase. Because you assume that rats are bad. Exactly. I follow a genre of Instagram videos which as I'd sort of summarized by saying it's like hot girls with pet rats. Ew what? Oh god! This is terrible. It's just kind of like babes with rats and so... For pets? For pets, yeah. And so they, I think the aim of it is to kind of reimagine the rat as a beautiful

creature, because you look at the beautiful woman and you see the rat and you think maybe the rats, maybe I'm seeing them in the wrong way. And then once I watched one of them, the algorithm took over and it's all I'm getting. Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure you definitely weren't searching for it or looking, seeking it out. Clicking so many of them. But no, so I don't see it as derogatory

because I've had some friends with pet rats and they're actually super social and really cute. Wow, okay. Well, we are gonna agree to disagree there. There is always the smell of rat piss. That's always a thing. People that have mice and rats, there's always a bit of piss smell.

Oh, God. Yeah, it's not good. They do carry the weight of the bubonic plague stigma. Absolutely. So I do feel for them for that, but I hate rats and I don't want them around me or near me and I find them disgusting. Yeah. But I like the look of a rodent boyfriend.

I mean, what would you call that type of man if it wasn't Rat Boy? Because I guess the idea is they're a bit sort of pointy. What is the typical man before Ratboys that was hot? That was Brad Pitt or something? Yeah. Golden Retriever boyfriend was before Ratboy Summer. Right. And that's a very Brad Pitt, Pine is a bit.

Yeah. Sort of more squarish, right? Whereas these boys are more angular. No, no, no. Oh, do you think Ratarish, right? Whereas these boys are more angular. No, no, no. Oh, do you think rat boys are more angular? I think they're more angular, sort of pointing towards like pointy noses, pointy chins.

Okay. Lots of pointy bits. Huh. The funny thing is, it's like you see those actors that were in Challengers, you see them doing press and promo, and it's not as sexy when they're in their real life situations but in challenges somehow they transformed. I think it's just in the interplay between the characters that you sort of

realizes like there's so much sex in the air and you're like, Oh my God. And they're munching on that banana or whatever it was. Yeah. Yeah. Ridiculous. I'm just waiting for possum boy weekend. How's that for a segue back to possums? Yeah, that's great. Anyway, um I'm gonna look at reevaluate the possum because now I'm reevaluating the rat and the mouse because of Rodent Boyfriend. So maybe possums can have a new branding. A new life. Yeah. Before I start getting into what I found out, do you have a default position or experience for sighting memorable of a possum in America?

Yeah, just really unfortunately roadkill. Oh, right, yeah, they do tend to get on the road. Are they too slow? Why are they always getting killed? It's the same thing in New Zealand. One of the iconic things in New Zealand, if you're exploring the country, beauty, beauty, beauty, but just dead possums everywhere.

They run across the road and then when they look up and see headlights, they do quite a bad thing for survival, which is they just freeze. They deer in the headlights. They deer in the headlights. They possum out. But they're too tiny so they get murdered. Squished. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I hate that. Yeah. I don't like that. I don't want to talk about them. No. Okay. Well, look, I'm curious if you change your mind in this little excursion, I go and meet a possum.

Okay, let's hear it. Let's see what you think. I realized pretty quickly that for this episode, I would need to meet an American possum. Is it possum or opossum? Well technically, scientifically it's opossum, but in the states we do use possum and opossum interchangeably. And so I'd found myself sitting on a park bench waiting for a woman who promised I could get up close and personal with an American possum called Horace. My name is Brenda, you can refer to me as Possum. I rehab a possums and I'm a veterinary technician. Have you always had a thing for possums or did it come later in life?

I fell in love with possums when I was 17 in a senior class in high school and after that it was all I ever wanted and it happened. Since high school, Brenda's never looked back. Some people love dogs, others love cats. For Brenda, it's possums all the way. And as I talk to her, I feel something wet poking through one of the holes in my crocs. There's a gentle sniffing sound and a wet tongue is licking my big toe. As we're talking, who is this sniffing around my feet right now? This is

Horace. He is looking for some toe cheese. I've got plenty of that. Horrific. He's a big boy. Can you tell me a little bit about how he came to be in your care? Yeah, so Horace was rehabbed by another rehabber friend with the intentions of release. But during his rehab, he is, was found out to be very food motivated. He also had a tail injury that was not healing and eventually part of his tail needed to be amputated, which meant he couldn't be released quick enough. And then he got too used to people and he asked people for food. So that's not a good trait for wild opossums, begging for food.

So we took his care after that because the other rehabber was not prepared to have adult opossums in the home. Essentially, while healing from an injured tail, Horace just learned to like humans too much. He'd be useless in the wild and so here he is, a creature Brandon now uses to educate Americans about what she calls a misunderstood creature. And looking at Horace now, I can see why. He's just so weird to look at. For one thing, he's huge.

About the size of four New Zealand possums combined. He has bulging eyes and a long snout with the pinkest nose I've ever seen. What is it that you like about these creatures? Because I'm going to be honest, you know, I'm from New Zealand. When I first saw them, I'm like, I did not think it was a possum. And I also thought they are kind of horrific looking. You know, they're North America's only marsupial. I do love that.

They also seem to be the underdogs. So I like that. You know, there's dog rescuers and cat rescuers, raccoon rescuers, nobody ever thinks about the opossums. They need help, they need an advocate and I figured I would be that person. Plus, to me they're super cute. The weird thing is, as I get more used to Horace, I start to agree.

What I first saw as a hideous freak of nature is actually kinda cute. He moves slowly and carefully, and his eyes are wide and soft like a creature from a Pixar film. And what she said about the possum being North America's only marsupial, she's right, I'd assume the possum was related to the rat, but possums have a pouch just like a kangaroo which makes them a marsupial, North America's only one. They're also what experts call a living fossil. 70 million years ago when dinosaurs were walking the earth, possums pretty similar to Horus were there as well. Unlike most creatures from that

time that died out, possums didn't. I'd thought of them as God's mistake, but maybe I had it wrong this whole time. From a survival perspective, they're sort of perfect. 70 million years and still going strong. What does the average American think of a possum? They think they're vermin, they think they're dirty, diseased, big rat creatures running around, which is not true. That's what most people think, they usually don't know that they're actually really good for our environment. There are cleanup services. They love eating things like ticks, which I think we can all agree is a good service to provide. Their diet is actually extremely varied.

There was a scientific report done where they checked possums to see what they were eating, and their diet ranged from like nuts and berries to like bugs to hamburgers and fries. They tend to be fairly clean animals like cats they groom all the time and he will not pee or poo where he sleeps or he eats so he likes being clean. There's also something else sort of amazing about the possum that I learned that officially wins me over. They don't get rabies. A long time ago we didn't have a lot of information about opossums, but now we do. Opossum physiology tends to be very different than most mammals and it's mammals that carry rabies and most of those diseases that are zoonotic to people. And their temperature

one tends to be very low so they don't hibernate or reproduce the rabies virus, which is good for us, but nobody thinks that way we all think they're, people think they're vermin. Quite the opposite, not vermin but a marsupial with a body temperature just low enough that rabies can't take hold. They're also kind of pathetic in that their main line of defence is playing dead, that's where playing possum comes from. The process is entirely out of their control.

If they get a fright, it's the equivalent to human fainting. They fall down, saliva starts pouring out of their mouth, and their lips draw back, showing their teeth. It's like an automated defense system. The only thing they have going for them are their 50 super sharp teeth, but that's it. 50 razor sharp teeth, yeah. Just one tiny little nibble and there's blood. There's no biting today. As we talk, Horace has given up sniffing my feet and licking my toes

doing anything else, really. He's curled up on the ground to have a nap. Yeah, I put his blanket down so he can cuddle up when he's done exploring. He wants to go to sleep on top of his blanket. Lazy. Oh yeah, for sure. We do not work very hard. We like it if it's easy, readily available. If it's work, we don't want it. What's Horace's personality like? Does he have a personality? Horace does have a personality. He's actually quite a beach bum. He likes to just hang out. He likes to eat. He likes to ask what you're eating

and if he could have some. Also, when we hang out with other possum friends or other animal friends that have bags or carriers, he will confiscate them. He will go into other animals' carriers and go to sleep. So, he's not super social but he wants somebody else's bed. Yeah." Since meeting Horace, I've seen possums in an entirely new light. They're not God's mistake. If anything, as a friend put it, maybe they're just God's little oopsie. The sad thing is, they only live for about two to three years, relatively short lives. They make up for that in the sheer number of babies they have. Sometimes they reproduce 13 babies up to three times a year when we have a warm year.

Here in America, you'll see a possum zooming around in a backyard looking for food. A ludicrous number of babies riding on its back, holding on for dear life. Mom possums are really good moms, but if you fall off and can't hang on, she's leaving. Not there to fuck around. No, she's not waiting for you and can't hang on, she's leaving. She's not there to fuck around. No, she's not waiting for you to get in the car.

She's leaving. So if you find a baby possum all on his own, mom's actually not going to come back. He wasn't abandoned. He just didn't hang on strong enough. So if you find a baby possum in the wild, you actually should scoop him up as soon as you see him, because mom's not coming back.

With a lot of the other wildlife like raccoons, mom is looking for her babies and she'll come back. Opossum moms are like, peace out, you made your decision to jump ship and I'm going. That's so funny, this don't give a fuck. No, they don't. They're great moms. They teach them a lot of things. But I mean, sometimes there's 13 babies hanging on. How do I know that one fell off? So you hang on for dear life or else you get left behind. With all this talk of hanging on I realize I want to hang on to Horace. So in a move that would make Monica's brain explode like a proud father I pick Horace up. We carry him like we would a baby so you support his back and you support his butt

and then he totally like cuddles right into people. Could I try? Is that okay? Yeah yeah here I'll give them to you. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Flightless Bird is sponsored by Better Help. Now what are your self-care non-negotiables? Maybe you never skip leg day or therapy day. When your schedule is packed with kids activities, big work projects and more, like making a weekly podcast, it s easy to let your priorities slip. Even when we know what makes us happy, it s hard to make time for it. But when you feel like you've got no time for yourself, non-negotiables like therapy are more important than ever. With therapy, I continue to learn a number of things. There's just the helpfulness of

catching up with someone that's not a close friend once a week who can offer some objective perspectives on things. And look, in therapy therapy I have learnt I get fairly reactive to things if something bad happens I flare up really quickly something good happens I also flare up really quickly but then drop really quickly so I'm learning a lot about regulating my emotions which I probably should have learned as a 10 year old but hey I'm learning it now at 41. If you're thinking of starting therapy give BetterHelp a try it's entirely online designed to be convenient, flexible and suited

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to 20%. You just submit a picture of your bill and Rocket Money takes care of the rest. Thank God. Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has saved a total of $500 million dollars in cancelled subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when using all of the app's features. Stop wasting money on things you don't use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to rocketmoney.com slash bird. That's rocketmoney.com slash bird. Rocketmoney.com slash bird. Monica? Oh, David. Gripping Horace and holding him like a little baby. Beautiful. I just sent you a photo.

I see the photo. You're not scared that he's gonna bite you with his 50 razor sharp teeth? I did have that inquiry. I said is it any chance he'll bite me? I know I won't get rabies, but I'll have blood all over me. Yeah. He'll only ever do that accidentally if he's hungry. So if I'm holding some food, he'd only accidentally bite me. If he was trying to get to the food, he'll never do it in anger or in any kind of territorial kind of a thing. I should also note that as I was playing you that documentary and we're talking about the 13 babies on mother's back, I showed you a photo thinking that

would win you over, you sort of smash the mic away from your face and let out an explosive noise. I hated what you showed me. I don't think I can unsee that for the rest of my life. It like makes me nauseous. It's like this big possum and there's 13 tiny cute little faces gripping on the back staring at you. No, what is so gross about it?

It's maybe it's just like the amount. No, I don't like that. I don't know why I just look at that and I just think, wow, look at those cute little eyes. There's 50 eyes staring back at you. I think maybe it's too many eyes. That might be it. That might be it.

Look, that's probably a phobia, too many eyeballs staring at you at one time. It's probably a thing. You're right. The holes one. People are afraid of holes. Rosabelle has that. Yeah. I always send her photos of fungi or like a sponge.

Oh, my God. And she hates it so much. Why is she still friends with you? You're so lucky that she's still around. Did you scare Horace and get him to play possum? No, I said, can we do this possum thing? And essentially it's bullying. It's possum bullying.

Does it sound nice when it's spitting and drooling? No, so basically it's like those fainting goats. You see those videos where people are running out to a herd of fainting goats and they all just go rigid and fall over. Have you seen those videos? No, I don't come across very many animal videos. Wait, I'm going to say something crazy. I actually do think Horace is a little cute.

This is huge. I do think he's a little cute in this picture where you're holding him. His ears are very cute. They look made out of construction paper and just taped on. They're like little paper ears. Would you liken them to any actors? Any hot actors? Well, yeah. I mean, he is reminding me of one of the challengers boys who's top of mind right

now in my brain and- And heart. And other places, private parts. And so, yeah. They're kind of hot, right? I'm now finding this- Horus to be hot. Horus is kind of sexy.

Hot Horus to be hot. Horus is kind of sexy. I would love it if after all your lack of love towards animals you ended up being a possum rehabber, part of the possum rehabber network, and you just had a little possum on a leash that maybe Christmas is coming. Okay, we'll revisit that at Christmas time. But what is very, again, sad for rats is as soon as I heard that they're actually not part of the rodent family, that they're part of the marsupial family, they got immediately cuter. They got better. Yeah, I feel bad.

No, I think that's because when you associate them with a koala bear or a kangaroo, those are two just really cute cool animals, right? I know, but this is unfair. All of this is very unfair. I've seen you some of those hot girls with rats. I'd rather you not. Just quickly, so you know how possums faint? Yeah. This is a fainting goat. I'm going to play you this video.

So they basically get a fright and they will just go completely rigid and fall over. Oh My other hot girls in these videos today, but now just old me and actually wait I need to see that one more time. So that was very creepy. If you just Google fainting goats There's so many videos on YouTube of them And if you get a whole herd of them and they all faint at once it's the best thing but they just go catatonic and drop. Very similar with the possum where it's entirely out of its control if it gets a fright it'll freeze it'll drop over and as a survival mechanism the lips automatically draw up so you see all the scary teeth and it starts foaming as if it has rabies. So other animals will get scared and not go near it.

Whereas it doesn't have any of those things, doesn't have rabies, it's not gonna bite, it's frozen solid. If a possum faints and plays dead, you can pick it up and it's not gonna do anything. Don't recommend it because it does wake up. You'll get it slobber all over you too. But no rabies in it.

Okay, but listen, so now this is why they keep getting hit by cars, because they're probably they get scared and they faint in the street. Gone. And then you hit them. Yeah. This is not a very good they need to evolve a little bit. One thing the pos mom told me as well. And I think I cut this out of the second part of the doc, but she said if you do come across a possum that is dead or been run over, if you're sort

of an animal loving type and it's definitely dead, so it's not going to scratch you or anything, there's a chance that some little possums will still be in the pouch. And so the mum can be dead, but the babies can still be there. So if you can, if you see like a possum, a bit of movement or something in the belly, you can scoop those babies out and take them to possum rehab and those possums might get to live on. I did see a dead one like two days ago on our street. I saw someone who put a little jacket over.

I thought that was really polite and kind. I bet a kid did that. Yeah. Okay. I feel, oh God. We still haven't had a fight yet. I thought this was going to be the episode where we got into a huge conflict. I feel really. And our numbers would spike.

Now I feel bad because there are some things in life I just wish I could erase. I want to erase what you just said, because now I'm going to walk by a dead possum and know that there could be 13 babies slowly starving in there. Unless you Monica roll up those sleeves and have a little rumble around in the pouch. What would it take for you to go into the street and dig around the pocket of a dead possum?

A dead possum? You see, just imagine you see this little tiny little face. I hate that guy. I hate that 13 little eyeballs. I've never seen you rip your headphones off. This is really uncomfortable. Really? Okay, well, they're going to die.

It's okay. It's look, it's a circle of life. What would you do, Rob? I don't think I would do it. Would you give a possum mouth to mouth if you knew it would save it? I wouldn't. You would do it. Would you give a possum mouth to mouth if you knew it would save it? No, I wouldn't. You would draw the line, right? My dad was a bit inerian, and the one thing he taught us is don't go getting sly over and stuff.

OK, so maybe this is what I would do. No, but the problem is, if I'm being very honest, I've just not even. You'd probably back back over again if you can. You'd call like animal control. Out of its misery. I'd call animal control. That's what I was going to say, but no, you wouldn't. I've done it.

There's been like a crow at our softball game that had an injured wing and we called someone and... Oh, that's beautiful. That's nice. Yeah. It just takes that time to look it up and make the call and... A dead possum. Until now we're talking about it, you would not have.

Yeah. I didn't know there'd be babies in the belly. Well, neither would not have. Yeah, I didn't know there'd be babies in the belly. OK, maybe at the end of this, can you give the number for who we need to call? Every state has their own possum rescue. So if you just search possum rehab, my advice to you, if you like possums or any of these animals, like raccoons, there's a bunch of rehabs for all these kind of pests.

There's an Instagram account for all of them. You just did the thing David hates the most, just telling people how to do something. Oh, wait, what? It's Google. I get really angry when someone's like, where do I watch that movie? Where do you watch your movie that they're a fan of yours and want to see? It makes me really. David.

No, because Google's and I don't like they ask me that. To give them an answer, I need to know where they live and what they have access to. You know, OK, well, I would like you to include the phone number for Possum Rescue for California and provide that service. But now I know if I see a dead possum, there might be babies. That's the problem. I don't want to get close. Who wants to get that close to roadkill?

You have to have a very strong disposition to do that. So I think I would call and say, there's a dead possum. I'm not sure if there's any babies and I hang up. Just call it in. Yeah. I will do that if you provide the phone number. So now it's on you. I've just Googled California possum rescue. There's Pacific wildlife care.

There's also a bunch of different possum rescues. So it'll honestly depend on where you are. There's so many people that love possums. What neighborhood you're in will dictate it. I hate to say this, this is a big enough hurdle that people aren't going to do it. It has to be turnkey easy for people to do it. If people aren't Googling a thing, they shouldn't be doing anything. What if they're driving? They shouldn't be using their phone to call.

They can pull over. Oh my god. They can Google possum rescue. I think David's in big Google pocket. And they can find it. I know. This is the conflict. I think you're part of like...

Do you work for Google? No, well, I'm just Googling possum rescue. This is the conflict. Who knew it would be over Google? Possum rescue there. Can we even get to part two? Do you want to learn more about possums? Yes. How many eyes are in the next section?

Just two. Okay. Just two eyes. I mean, we're in a park right now. I've seen a few looks as people walk behind you there. What kind of reactions do you get? Most people are super surprised. They always smile if they know what it is or not. They always ask what is that, is it a pet, is he friendly, and even though most people

are locals that I encounter, half of them don't know what a possum is. So a lot of the times it's a surprise, but there's always a smile associated with it. She's totally right. As I've been interviewing Brander about Horace in this public park, I've seen people noticing him. I mean Horace is the size of a small dog, he'd be hard to miss, and everyone that sees him, they've got this grin on their face. Oh my god, what do they call them? Have you ever seen a possum like this before? No, no never. First time, wow. Yeah.

Fleur approaches, spellbound. She's never seen a possum up this close, and turns out she's a big fan of animals, just rescued a squirrel, which now lives part-time in her house. I'm in the same situation with a squirrel. I found a squirrel like three months ago on the street and he was injured.

So I was like, okay. And now like I made him his own space in my house and I take him outside. I leave him for a few hours and then I pick him back. You live with a squirrel? Yeah. I will show you a picture. She flicks through her phone and yeah, there's a squirrel in her room. This is Samba. Samba's very cute.

What is he eating? Oh, he eats. He loves pistachios. Yeah, yeah. I built him him some stuff for him to climb. I even painted the room for him. It wasn't like that before. I was like, I'm going to paint it green for him to feel more like in the outdoors. Flur's hyped.

Hyped on squirrels. And now hyped on possums. Aw! Bye guys, thank you very much for everything. Have a good one. have a good one. You're right, everyone comes up groaning their heads off. Yeah, everybody's very confused, but very smiley, which is fabulous.

You know, it's the best welcome ever. As soon as she leaves, another guy approaches. As is the case with everyone, he's smiling too. You know what they call them in Spanish? What do they call them in Spanish? Atacuaches. Brenda says once people meet opossum like Horace, their perception about them can change. And she reminds me that it wasn't too long ago that a glimpse of opossum was seen as a blessing. The gentleman that passed by said that the Spanish word for opossum is tlacoche and tlacoche is a

Mesoamerican term, so before the Spaniards came to Mexico and conquered everything. So it was an era of when the Mayans and the Aztecs were ruling the empire. In history, in some areas of Mexico, they're actually considered a blessing to have. There is an old story that says that way back in the day,

people and animals lived in darkness. And one day a comet fell down to the earth and this wicked old hag found the comet and stole all the fire from the comet for herself and then the possum and all the animals were like can we have some fire at night to keep warm and so we can see each other and the old hag was like no. So the possum thought to himself, I'm gonna hook you guys up. The possum went into her den and befriended the old hag and then when she fell asleep, the possum actually grabbed a piece of fire with his tail

and ran it back to his friends and the people. So the reason why the possum's tail is naked is because it got burned off and he was delivering fire to his people. Some tales also possum's tail is naked is because it got burned off when he was delivering fire to his people. Some tales also say that his tail is naked because he was super vain and the gods took away his fur. But I like the first one, that he brought fire to the people. That tail is another amazing thing I can't get used to.

Back in New Zealand, the possums I know have these cute bushy tails. The American possum's tail is entirely hairless, it looks like a rat's tail which is probably why many people think they're related to rats. But a possum's tail here in America, it's prehensile, meaning they can grab onto things with it. On top of that, they've also got opposable thumbs on their back legs. An owl with Horaceace and I'm sold. I think maybe the possum is America's best animal. It's just misunderstood. People assuming it's out to cause trouble when that couldn't be further from the truth. And I think

mainly is that we don't want to be bothered. A lot of people don't want to be inconvenienced by a nuisance animal in their yard, even though technically the animals were there first. So I think that that's it they're bothersome to some people and they just fear the unknown which is you know it's sad. Any advice to people for coexisting with a possum like should they leave a bit of food out should they chase them away how do we coexist with these things? Well I guess the right answer for coexisting is that mainly we should just leave them be. If they're passing by, they're passing by to their next foraging spot or they're just

trying to get home to their nesting area. But if you want to be a fun yard and there's not a lot of dogs in your area but you can provide shelter in the winter or some food during the summer or some water during the summer, that would be lovely. Your house isn't going to be where the possum hangs out. They will walk up to three miles a night searching for things, but it would be a welcomed relief area to cross upon some water when you know it's the dry area. So technically leave and be, give them their space, but if you want to be friendly possums love free things. It was time to leave Brenda and Horace and head back home. Just one final question remained because a few years back Brenda had been to New Zealand and she'd seen a New Zealand possum. What is the cutest an American possum or a New

Zealand possum? Oh man, okay I fell in love with the possums. But you know, when you have curly hair, you really want straight hair. Man, those fluffy New Zealand possums and you just put your hands in their coat. They're great. I really like them. So I think the New Zealand possums are cuter. And maybe it's just because I can't have one of those. What a human thing, eh? W's just because I can't have one of those. What a human thing, eh? Wanting what you can't have.

Oh my god, grass is always greener. Do they say that in New Zealand? We do have that there. Okay. Grass is always greener. I feel that I need to advocate for that hag. The old hag with the fire. That's her fire.

Yeah, who stole the fire. And she doesn't need to give with the fire. That's her fire. Who stole the fire. And she doesn't need to give anyone her fire. I love that story is such a perfect illustration of the relationship. A little possum crept in and took it. Beautiful story. Monica Padman. What kind of animal? What's my animal of choice? If I was going to sort of come back from the dead as some sort of creature.

I love birds the most. People have likened me to Big Bird from Sesame Street. Oh wow. Just this sort of tall annoying kind of like, lumbers into the room. I think I'd be like an emu or something. Emu? Emu. So you think that's your, like, who you are, your essence. That's what I want to be. I want to be like a funny. I feel like you're kind of flamingo. Flamingo-y? They prance too much.

I like ostrich for you. I like ostriches that they kind of want attention, but also they're a bit mean underneath it all. Yeah, I think that could be me. But also I think I'm too passive. I think I'm too kind of pathetic. I think I'm more golden retrievery, you know, like a bit sort of,

I'm talking about this in my therapist at the moment how I will flop over too easily sometimes your pushover I'm a bit of a pushover. Yeah, and in a relationship I just become what the other person sort of wants me to be and they say things like you're selfish I'll just tend to believe them and be like, oh, yeah, I probably am selfish instead of going no, maybe I'm not selfish Don't call me selfish. Okay. I, okay. But that's interesting because you are also notoriously avoidant. I'm surprised then that you're also a pushover because I feel like avoidance are looking for opportunities to like, to disappear.

Yeah. And so you wouldn't just be like, yeah, I guess. You sort of poke and push. Yeah. You'd be like, oh, well fuck, I'm leaving then. Yeah. And so you wouldn't just be like, yeah, I guess. You'd sort of poke and push. Yeah, you'd be like, oh, well, fuck, I'm leaving then. Yeah, I'm more of a covert avoidant. You're avoiding the conflict. I'm avoiding the conflict. Oh.

Conflict for me is, which is what I was really trying for in this episode, by the way, was conflict. Conflict for me, which was a big step. Oh, no. This was part of my therapy. Was your therapist like, okay, here's your homework. She's like on a hot moniker up. Create chaos. I tried. was a big step. This was part of my therapy. Was your therapist like, okay, here's your homework. Create chaos. I tried, but no conflict for me typically is my absolute worst

nightmare. And I think that's why I like the possum. They don't like conflict. They're mellow. They're gentle. The second they get into conflict, they do. So what I do, they just sort of faint and pretend it's not happening and just hope the conflict passes them by. Meanwhile, they get hit by a fucking car. Then you walk by and got my babies there. Or you see them and my babies are dead because you don't. Google, you don't pull over to Google the number for a possum rehab.

How dare you not take responsibility and blame me for your possum babies because you are too afraid and you faint all over the place. It's my next therapy session. It's not my fault you can't handle your fears. That is such a new look, not all New Zealanders, but it is such a New Zealand thing to really avoid conflict. Something I like about Americans is that they do often tend to say what's on their mind, whether it's good, even though it's kind of bullshit, they'll just say some stuff or if they have a problem, they will tend to say it. Whereas New Zealanders will

do it ever we can to avoid it. And eventually that just makes everything go toxic and horrible because no one's actually talking about what they want to talk about. And I do think then it comes out in weirder ways. Oh yeah. Because it's gonna come out. Of course. What it does, it comes out, especially me, in passive aggressive ways. Right. And that's the most annoying fucking thing to deal with, a passive aggressive person. Horrible. Possums. Possums. Just be honest, did you come out of this episode liking possums? Forget about the babies and all the eyes because that's another problem. Horrific. Yeah. Yeah.

Good. Yes, I did. Now that I feel like it has some Challenger's Boy energy, now they're hot. I'm going to send you Horace's Instagram so you can slide into his DMs. He has it on Instagram. I held his little butt, like when I held him like a baby, like I held his little possum butt. Ew, and you liked it? And it was good. Ew.

Was his butthole very exposed? It was under the tail, right? It was under the tail, sort of tucked the tail under. Yeah. I don't like it when animals' buttholes, anuses, are very exposed. Dogs and cats do. Exactly. No, no, Horace was, he had a subtle butthole.

Okay. What I did notice was that Horace's tail is really disgustingly big. And I said to her, why is Horace's tail so big? And essentially Horace, as she said, is very food motivated, loves eating, but possums store their fat in their tail and behind their eyes. And that's why possums' tails sometimes get really fat and ugly. Wait, let me look at this picture. And why their eyes bulge out, it means they're well fed.

Yeah, fuck. The tail is very wrap-wrapped. Also remember Horace's tail got amputated. That was part of the reason he's a rescue. So it would have been even bigger. It would have been longer, which would have made it seem less wide, which I think would have been even bigger? It would have been longer, which would have made it seem less wide, which I think would have been a bonus. No, but the problem is the tail is rat like.

That's why people are like, yuck. Yeah. New Zealand possum, whilst they're much more destructive, their tail is beautiful and fluffy. A bit like a beautiful Maine Coon cat. Oh, really? Okay. Let me see. Do they also have all the eyes?

They breed prolifically. I feel they don't have as meanie in their litter as an American possum, but also might be talking at my ass because I don't know. David, is this one? What's happening here? You're wavering. That's a New Zealand possum. Cuter.

Wow. I think the American possum is cuter. Oh my fucking God. This is amazing. This is pretty ugly. They're both pretty ugly. Oh my fucking God. This is amazing. This is pretty ugly. Yeah, they're both kind of gross. Also yours doesn't have a construction paper ear.

It does not look challengers. I'll tell you that. Wow. You're hating on the New Zealand possum. It's really fat. The body is very fat. Look how fluffy it is. It kind of looks like a mouse.

Monica, this is huge. I mean, I love that you love the American possum. This is great. This is as close to you as I've ever felt. So I think what's happened in this episode of Conflict is that all three of us have come to find the American possum sweetly endearing. Yeah, I think that's right. That's really nice. Challengers has really done a lot for the rodent

and marsupial community. Actually, you made me want to rewatch that film because it is really fun. It's almost as if the rodent lobby commissioned this. Yeah, it's doing a lot of good for the rat. Good PR. You're right. You're right.

I'm going to go back to my therapist and say that conflict I tried to have didn't happen. Didn't happen. Sorry therapist. Maybe I'll have some conflict with her. Don't worry. I think you're going to find some conflict at some point today. Don't you worry.

All right. Well, this was fun. I do feel more American. I did not know about the possum. I did not want to know about the possum. You didn't know you wanted to know. Correct. Well, this is really cool. And I'm me and there's nothing I can do about it.

And Monica, you're not an old hag in the cave. Thank you for saying that. Yeah. I'm a youngish, young to middle-aged hag. You're a hag to be. Bye.