Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Flightless Bird: RVs

Episode Date: September 20, 2022

This week on Flightless Bird, David sets out to understand America's obsession with recreational vehicles, also known as RVs. Joined by Monica and Dax, David discovers why 11.2 million American homes have an RV of some kind and why 10 million more are considering buying one within the next five years. David sits down with Monica Geraci, the official spokesperson for the American RV Industry Association, to find out some tips and tricks before descending into Griffith Park to meet an actor who lives in an RV full time. It's there he learns of a mysterious man who rents RVs out to the unhoused around Los Angeles, begging the question: is this mystery man doing them a favor or is he exploiting their situation as a kind of RV slumlord? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm David Farrier, a Kiwi who accidentally got marooned in America, and I want to find out what makes this country tick. Since I've been here, I've discovered that Americans really love freedom. It's what they talk about all the time, and if an American sniffs even the slightest whiff of their freedoms being tampered with, it's game on. This freedom extends to everything, including people's homes. Because while in New Zealand we generally like our houses to be fused to the ground, a large number of Americans love to have wheels on their house so they can drive it wherever they want.

Every year we make it possible for thousands of Americans from all walks of life to make their travel dreams come true. Americans love RVs, recreational vehicles. An American pastime. In fact, it's roaring back, perhaps right next to you on the highway. The RV industry is worth $140 billion here in America. 58,000 brand new RVs were shipped out during a single month last year. 11.2 million homes have an RV of some kind, and around 10 million more are considering buying one within the next five years. With all that in mind, I want to find out why Americans are obsessed with RVs.

So, get ready to take your toilet, bedroom, bathroom, lounge, and entire family, basically everything including the kitchen sink, on a giant road trip, because this is the RV episode. Flightless, flightless, flightless bird touchdown in America. I'm a flightless bird touchdown in America. I mean, this would talk about having the perfect guest for this episode. Yeah. I mean, I should have just interviewed you for the entire documentary. I don't know why I went out and made one.

This is like your lifeblood. I mean, the first thing I really saw when I ever came up here to the attic was your RV. Aerosmith spending the night at our house all the time. Here's where I'll hit you right now with a distinction. Okay. That is not an RV. Oh, what do you have and now i'm gonna be an elitist right now i'm gonna expose myself as being a brat but i gotta tell you that's a bus all the people that own the bus i have they love calling it a coach which is triggering to me for my uh class warfare no that's interesting because i've been

watching hacks it's this comedy about this female comedian and she's got a lot of money, and I think she has a bus. Right. That's a tour bus as opposed to an RV. What's the difference? Okay, so basically recreational vehicles. That's, you know, you go out to the lake. You may go out for a weekend. You know, people do live in them.

And that's very much approachable for the middle class. How much are they? they range you can get a sprinter van all the way up to probably like a 35 foot class a motorhome because it goes from you can tow it on a trailer it can be on four wheels like what makes an rv an rv if i put a toilet in my car is that then an rv sure if you go out and recreate in it then it's technically one so you've got trailers that are towed behind trucks and those range in size from little tiny airstreams that are 12 feet long to dudes have four i should say people have i'm sure women have them too but i think not even men dudes i guess i'll call women dudes too. Male and female dudes can have 40-foot fifth-wheel trailers behind it. And then financially, a step up from that is that it's all self-contained

and it has a chassis and an engine and everything. So that's one strata, right? And then the first rung of that would be a Class C, where you have basically the cab of a van up front. And these manufacturers sell their van with just nothing in back. And then some manufacturer puts the big shell on back, and they build up the living space. A Class A is now where it's not using the front of a van or a truck.

It is a specifically designed whole box on top of a chassis. Oh, and this is a whole other level. Now, within Class A, the big step up is whether you have a gas engine up front or you have what's called a diesel pusher and that gap is you're looking at going from 120 000 to like 300 000 for the entry level ones and then in the case of my bus that's the apex and that is originally just Greyhound buses, industrial Greyhound buses that then started getting outfitted for traveling bands. Willie Nelson. He's got a Prevost tour bus.

Then that led to people having Prevost as recreational vehicles. And those rich people call their buses coach the guy who sold me mine shout out to david garza down in texas and say dax your family's gonna love this coach when you get in this coach and you get on the highway you're gonna feel dax the build quality of the four travel coach we talked so much because it took me six months to get mine from when i liked it and put a deposit down until it got unensnared in some legal thing that's a whole other episode there was a point where he called me said dax it's dave garza unfortunately your family is not gonna get this coach that's how he delivered the information yes yes so i've thought about this more than anything he always mentioned my name in every sentence and generally your family.

And this became a bit between my friend Huey and I who lives in Nashville where every time we want to do something selfish, we always go for our family. I want to get up and leave the house for my family. So what we think we've discovered is the saying someone's name is a well-worn trope in sales. You say their name every sentence you feel close intimacy yeah the your family got curious to me and i think what huey and i figured out was this it's not for your family no wife has ever been like hon you know what we need to spend half of our net worth on a fucking bus and so the salesman's smart enough to know that you feel a little unethical about this outrageous purchase so they're going to keep telling you it's

for your family i'm telling you it's the most selfish purchase a human makes it's and it's always a man i hate to bolster the stereotypes but listen it's a man who wants a bus it's like a man wants a semi not a man who wants to be a rock star sure there's some columns within the man who wants a bus there's the freedom thing which i think is really we're gonna get into this yeah this notion of when the shit hits the fan i'll be mobile and self-contained and i can go anywhere and my backyard can be anywhere that's right and then there's a genuine wanderlust traveler who loves being in different settings. And if you have the option to live all over the world, why wouldn't you?

That's such a cool notion. That's less about freedom and just true appreciation of all the many landscapes in America. What's it for you? What drew you to the RV? Long history of long-distance driving driving road trips aaron and i my hobby is like going down to texas seeing what we get into going over here we'll sleep on the beach just let's get somewhere novel and experience it freedom right is that freedom though i think it's freedom the idea that you're not necessarily going to have to be at that hotel or that motel or that

airbnb we can be anywhere we can park on a beach. We can see whatever we want. I think it's freedom. I think it's part of that psyche. It's wonderful. Well, adventure. That's what I prefer to call it. It's like Aaron and I weren't an RV.

We were in my fucking geo Metro three cylinder with no room to sleep. And we just sleep outside. Let's see where the wind takes us. Let's see what's there. So I have this deep wanderlust and sense of adventure and now i have the means that i can have everything i want while i'm on the adventure i can tow my off-road vehicles with the bus i can take a shower in there i can wash clothes in there i can cook real meals in there that bus to me is my favorite thing i've ever owned I'm getting in it in three days and I'm going to be out in it for a month.

Yeah. And I'll be with my family for two of the weeks and then I get the fucking family out of there and Aaron Weakley flies in and he and I, and then we get to the real shit. And we're already planning, like, where are we going to go? We're going to go see the Ava brothers park the bus next to their bus.

We want to go to a mud bog tournament. We want to tackle to a mud bog tournament we want like we want to tackle america in the bus i also think freedom adjacent is not being restricted it's not being confined it's like i can do anything at any time it's like freedom but it's it's not exactly that it's like i'm not stuck i'm not stuck yeah that's a great one even like when aaron and i are on this trip if it's gonna rain for three days in the place we're at we bounce we look at the weather mat we go oh fuck or if we find out there's gonna be a tornado in fucking iowa we're going to the tornado driving straight you can change your pants yeah yeah it's like you go where the wind takes you when

opportunity presents itself you unleash the bus, you deploy the bus. For me, the fantasy of it, the wanderer, yet you're not paying any price. Aaron and I, when we both graduated, or I graduated, when we got out of high school, we lived in my Mustang for six months. Six months? That's brewing down so hard. Oh my God. Yes.

And we just roamed the country for six months and it was for sure one of the highlights of my life. Full disclosure, my relationship to RVs is terror and panic because I came to America to go to Coachella a very long time ago. I really wanted to go to Coachella. It was the Tupac hologram, was Radiohead. I met my friends here and it was my job to drive the rv to coachella i'd never driven on an american road before so my first experience driving on the opposite side of the road sitting on the opposite side of where you're meant to have the steering wheel was in this giant rv hurtling along the road it was such a terrifying thing because it's so big. Pulling off the freeway is terrifying.

I got stuck in a Walmart parking lot. I was trying to back it out. People were screaming at me. I get a visceral reaction when I hear RV of terror. I didn't crash. We made it. I learned how to empty the sewage, all that stuff. I'm impressed.

Me too. It was a lot. But yeah, that's my reaction. It's just first driving experience in America, just being in sheer panic. the sewage all that stuff i'm impressed me too it was a lot but yeah that's my reaction is just first driving experience in america just being in sheer panic yeah so my bus is 45 feet long and i tow a 30 foot trailer oh there's more which is illegal you're only allowed to be 65 feet all in rolling down the road and we're often 75 80 who is ever going to pick up on that is anyone going to call you out yes only california it's the only place that even gives a shit you'll find all the

time when you're in the sand dunes that sometimes they're running kind of stings on it and they're only targeting guys from arizona coming to california go to the sand dunes in fucking arizona they're 100 feet long no one's batting an eye they just don't care also california is rare in that you got to have a special license for MyBuzz, but no other state do you have to have that. Just California. Yes, just California. So they're pulling you over, and they're coming up with a tape measure?

They have a fucking super long tape like you'd measure a football field with, and they roll it out from the front of your... Yes. The good thing is that people clear out of the way for you. If you change lanes, people sort of move, or that's what I've found. I don't want to be a brat because, look, I drive a 40,000-pound vehicle. It's on me. But in California in particular,

your average driver has no sense. I don't think you guys realize what you're playing with. Like, this is going to... Yes, it's like a freight ship. Like, I can't stop in 40 feet. For this episode, I did some research, and I made the mistake of Googling RV crashes. And it's people slow-mo getting out of

control on icy roads being places they shouldn't and it's horrific to see because once it spins on ice or something it's just such a big thing that's out of control it's a whole genre that I just find terrifying I put out a request on Instagram this week to get people's RV stories because I went up to where I usually do these with my little microphone and a man chased me. And so I got scared temporarily of going up to people with my microphone. Was it a friend you just didn't recognize? No. So angry. I was robbed 50 times.

He was chasing you saying, no, David, hi, David, where are you going, David? I made the mistake of walking up to someone who I think just was particularly unhinged. And they kind of lunged at me. I got quite a big fright. And I just didn't want to go back up there again. Anyway, so I went on Instagram and I said, if you have an RV experience you think is worth sharing, send me a voice memo. And so these are some of my favorites. I lived in a motorhome for a year and a half as a kid. My family traveled the

country and my parents homeschooled us and we went to 40 some odd states. Traveling in a motorhome was a really unique way to see the world. It's so much easier than any other way to travel with kids because I would get up and make lunches while she was driving. The kids could use the bathroom the whole time. It just worked out so well. One of the craziest things that happened to us, we were looking for somewhere to park overnight. And someone we met said, oh, I work at a Walmart. You can stay in the parking lot.

And so we're following this car across town. And all of a sudden we hear like a gunshot. And my dad yells, we're being shot at. Get down everybody. And so we all got down and we hear continual shots and we get to the Walmart parking lot and get out and there are bullet holes in our windshield. There's one in the driver's side window and bullet holes all down the length of the motorhome. I quarantined in an RV at the start of the COVID pandemic, but had nowhere really to quarantine at my parents' house. And so they borrowed a camper. And while I'm very grateful for that, it was an awful experience. It was still

snowing. The camper was moving back and forth because of the storm happening outside, the heater broke, so I was bundled up in winter coats and blankets constantly. The water stopped working, so I couldn't shower. I was absolutely disgusting. We were visiting Joshua Tree National Park. I was dumping our sewage tanks, and a nice couple from Germany that were visiting really didn't understand the American system of the black tanks and a nice couple from Germany that were visiting really didn't understand the American system of the black tanks and dumping. So I offered to help them out, showed them how to

do everything. And when they were done, the gentleman disconnected, whipped around, flung the hose and covered my lower body with their excrement. However, it was okay. They were nice. And there was a hose there. washed off wow that's a compliment in germany they like their shisha i actually got in trouble from a lot of germans after the toilet episode because i talked a bit about how much germans love who or something i made some comment we did maybe you guys said i heard from a lot of germans saying just so you know we're not all into poo i believe we're not all into it for sure. But there's a Vandy Fair article about it, I think. I'm going to trust that.

99% of you. All I can say is that it was a German that sprayed an American man with feces. I kept thinking this on our European trip this summer. We were driving around Austria and Italy and all those roads. And I was like, well, you just don't see any big browns. I don't even think I could drive big brown. My bus is called Big Brown. Big Brown's bigger than all the semis here. They don't even think i could drive my bus is called big brown big brown's bigger than

all the semis here they don't even have vehicles like that and then i was also thinking about i got obsessed with tyson fury the other night and i stayed up all night learning about him do you know anything about him the box very little i know he's a boxer that's all i've got but he's what's called a caravaner i think in the old days they called those folks gypsies he calls himself the gypsy king but know, there's a whole subset of Brits that are caravaners as a culture. They live in caravans, they travel in caravans. But what shocked me when I was watching this Tyson Fury thing was he parked his Ferrari next to his caravan. It doesn't even exist anywhere like it does here. That's why I really

wanted to dive into this, because in New Zealand, you don't see the RV culture. Tourists would maybe get an RV when they land and drive around the South Island to see all that Lord of the Rings stuff. But New Zealanders don't aspire to own an RV. We're much more into caravans. So people will have a caravan. We've got little caravan parks. You might tow it on the back of your car. They're tiny though. Yeah, they're tiny, but our whole infrastructure is smaller. I feel like America is built for RVs because your roads are so big. New Zealand roads are tiny. So it is a really American thing. My question, just in general, because I didn't really get into it in the documentary,

when people in America see an RV, there's all sorts of different types of people that have RVs. Are they like, yay, it's an RV? Is it like, oh, God, another RVer? Is there like a vibe in general that they give off? Well, there's no hatred towards RVers. I don't think so. There's a worry that their freedom camp is in New Zealand and that they'll be putting their poo in the bushes or something. Oh Jesus. Do you know what I mean? Anyone's worried about that. Okay. But if I could just say the general stereotype all growing up, all through my life, when you saw a good size RV

driving down the road, you thought, thought oh those are retirees it's how you live the rest of your life until you die you see the country the kids are gone yep you're free on the road you need less you downsize you have this you now have the time you have no schedule so it is generally represented retirement you're living the life of a retiree just a little bit earlier i'm trying my best yeah have. Have you done much RVing, Monica? No, only via Dax and the Sand Dunes. That's the only time I've ever been. My parents would never.

That's not their thing. No. Even the idea of them driving something that big, that's too scary. So the very first time you joined us out in the dunes and you got into the El Monte rental, 37 foot class A, gas motor up front. Not a big dog, but a big unit. Were you like, oh, this is shockingly comfortable? Or why did they do this? No, I was like, this is so fun.

It was so fun. I really like it. I do like the idea that your family, whatever, your friends can roam around whilst you're driving and cook some food or use the bathroom, take a shower? That's so funny. I did have one bad experience. Oh, with Aaron? Yeah. What happened?

We were at the sand dunes. You can't really have any separation. That's the only problem with the RV, obviously. You're all in it together. You're all in it together. You're all in it together. And if you haven't got your deviated septum fixed yet. And even if you have, Monica, if you don't have your sleep apnea device on. Oh, my God.

It was no scene true. I mean, you really have never heard anything like it. I had on headphones with white noise like blaring to try to stop it and no i was up all night what was unique then about aaron's snoring is it's the deviated septum plus sleep apnea and so my gosh you can't even get into the rhythm of it because here's how it sounds it's not soothing this is it starts oh he goes he goes literally stops breathing so you become aware of the fact like oh my god is this the time i have to shake him awake like he would stop breathing for like seven eight seconds straight yeah so you're on edge yes exactly it gives you anxiety it's not seconds straight. Yeah, so you're on edge. Yes. Exactly.

It gives you anxiety. It's not just that you can't sleep. You're also anxious. Now, mind you, he got his septum fixed. He also started using a sleep apnea device, finally got dialed in. I slept with him a bunch in Miami and Orlando. He's like a little church mouse now when he sleeps. Oh, it's like a whole new person.

Yeah, the mask really changed everything for him. I'm glad he's doing better. Because I'm just immune to it all. I wake up in the morning and I notice, oh, everyone's really grouchy. What happened? You bounce out of bed like, hey, guys. Yes, and I wasn't. And these two are like, they slept 20 seconds last night.

And they're fucked up and angry. I'm like, what happened? We were nice about it. You were nice to him, but you were cranky. Rightly so. I don't get any sleep all night. Absolutely. And then you left.

We were already leaving. Oh, okay. It wasn't for that. We left the entire holiday. We would have, though. That was impossible. Also the issue of sharing a bathroom when you're all on board. There's all those issues as well.

Yeah, I like having my own. But Big Brown's got two full bathrooms. I know. Two. Yeah, both with showers. You're having two people doing a poo at the same time. In the dream situation, yeah, ideally. Me and a German friend. Hey, this is my little documentary that I made to educate us all a little bit more about RVs. I am curious if you learn anything from this, Dax. When an American loves something, they'll make a film about it.

Which is how we ended up with a comedy called RV in 2006, starring Robin Williams, Jeff Daniels, and Cheryl Hines from Curb Your Enthusiasm. Mom, some idiot just parked this ugly RV outside our house.

Oh my God, it's your husband. A family is falling apart at the seams, so they hire an RV so they can go on a road trip, fixing all their family problems along the way on their way to the Rockies. It sits at 24% on Rotten Tomatoes. But despite those terrible reviews, the film had zero impact on the popularity of RVs. They've just gotten more and more popular ever since. So we know there are 11.2 million households that own an RV.

We did a large demographic profile study. That's so many. Yeah, it's a lot. And it's gone up 60% in the last 20 years. I'm talking to Monica Gracie, the official spokesperson for the American RV Industry Association. An organization I've been with for 12 years now. And I was really excited to work for the RV industry because I grew up RVing.

I grew up in Southern California. A lot of my first travel memories are that of me and my four siblings. There were five of us in a motorhome, my sisters and I in the back queen bed and my brothers at the fold down table and my parents got the sofa that folded out into a bed. Monica lives and breathes RVs and says that as well as getting more popular, they're also getting hipper apparently. Of those 11.2 million households that own an RV, the median age of an RV owner is 53. But we did a survey of people who bought RVs both in 2020 and then again in 2021. And the median age of people who bought

an RV for the first time in 2020 was 41. Significant drop. But 2021, the median age of a first-time RV buyer, 33. 33! Some of this can be put down to COVID. With air travel grounded, Americans learned to explore their own backyard in a different way. The pandemic has absolutely supercharged interest in RVing. Summer of 2020, you wanted to travel, the only way you were traveling was in an RV. So there were a lot of people who maybe had never even thought of an RV. And this was the only way they wanted the freedom to still travel and control their environment. It was RV. And we continue to see people wanting to go RVing because as corny as it sounds, is that people rediscovered the great outdoors during COVID. I can't do anything.

I'm locked at home. If I have to be inside for one more minute, I'm going to go crazy. And so people wanted to be outside. And whether that was their local park or, I don't know, playing pickleball, like that's now a thing. What is pickleball? I don't know. I just know it's like the fastest growing sport. I Google pickleball and find an article from July's New Yorker called Can Pickleball Save America? Pickleball, the fastest growing sport in America, the article begins. Michael Phelps, Leonardo DiCaprio and George Clooney are all playing pickleball apparently. From what I can tell, it's a sport that happened when tennis in Badminton

had sex. Out came their weird child, pickleball. Anyway, the pandemic was good for both RVs and pickleball. But as far as RVs go, I feel like the pandemic turned some Americans onto RVs for less aspirational reasons. I noticed walking around LA, there are a lot of people that seem to be living in RVs here. The ones I see in my fairly central LA neighborhood are all old and run down, windows covered in tarp so you can't see in. I assume they're people who have fallen on hard times. RVs are cheaper than renting and certainly an upgrade from living in a car or having no shelter at all. I get the feeling the RV Association of America doesn't particularly want to talk about that aspect of RV ownership. RV stands for recreation vehicle. So they're

really supposed to be used for recreation. They're not supposed to be lived in. Only one and a half percent of all RV owners are full timers. So the vast, vast majority of them use them three weeks a year on vacations. Of course, the PR person for the RV Association is going to encourage me to get into this lifestyle. I ask where I should drive to. She tells me the West Coast is good. Apparently, I need to go to the Grand Canyon and someplace where you can lie down and be in all four states at the same time. The main decision is what size and style of RV to get. That's what's really interesting. There are so many different types. You've got everything from a pop-up camper

that you can keep in your garage and it literally it pops up and you can get those for five, $6,000. And then you go all the way up to these million or multimillion dollar coaches that can be nicer than a lot of people's houses. And there's everything in between. And so we do represent everything from the really small towable RVs. And then you've got your kind of classic traditional bumper pull RV and that's the vast majority of RVs are those bumper pull. I guess my biggest hang-up about RVs is the toilet situation. I just don't like the idea of traveling

around with a sewer in my car. I talked to my friend who's a musician and spent some time on a tour bus which is a bit like an RV. She said there was a rule no one could use the toilet for fear it would stink the place out. They'd pull over at a truck stop or Starbucks to do their business. As the tour went on, bandmates got lazy and one did their business in a bag. They flung it out the window,

but the bag burst against the side of the bus. Anyway. So there are dump stations and most campgrounds, you need to dump your waste at the dump station. That is the only place you dump the waste and it's very important to be a responsible RV owner. A big part of Monica's job with the RV Association is making sure America has the infrastructure to cope with the growing number of RVs on the road. One of our big policy areas is to make sure that people have a place to go

RVing. And the number of campgrounds hasn't necessarily kept pace, particularly on federal lands. A lot of those campgrounds were built during the Eisenhower era and maybe haven't been updated since. RVs look a little different than they did 40, 50 years ago. And we need our campgrounds to be able to service those RVs and also provide the experiences that today's RVer is looking for. Talking to Monica, I do get the appeal of an RV. America is big. It has big roads that suit an RV. And there are a bunch of apps that can help you find the best route, taking into account things like the height of tunnels and bridges so you don't demolish your RV. And while RVs weren't invented in America, they've become so ingrained in American life.

Tom Selleck was the voice of RVing for years. Hitting the road with everything you love never loses its thrill. What will you discover? Go RVing. I think of Gulfstream, started back when I was just one year old in 1983. It's the largest privately held RV maker in America, with 26 brands and 100 models, employing over 1,500 workers in Indiana. Alcott Country is known as the RV capital of the world,

because 85% of RVs are sold in Indiana, bringing in $32 billion into its economy. Then there's Winnebago, founded in 1958. I'm not sure if you've seen it, but there's an amazing video on YouTube called Winnebago Man. It's outtakes from an RV salesman trying to record an infomercial sometime during the 90s, except he's having a very terrible time. The Winnebago concepts and engineering departments have developed a multifunctional bathroom. 90s, except he's having a very terrible time. He just keeps mangling his lines as he tries to

sell a fancy Winnebago. It's strangely delightful to watch it. Before I let Monica get on with her Buyer segment. Why can't I remember? I wrote this stuff. Why can't I remember it? Why don't I say it fucking right? Before I let Monica get on with her day, I ask her if she's seen Winnebago Man. She hasn't, but she says a lot has changed since the day of the old white American man being the face of RVing. The diversity breakdown is very close to the breakdown of the census. The new buyers that are coming in is reflective of American society as a whole, which is really cool. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors.

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their first order at framebridge.com when they use the code BIRD, B-I-R-D. You just went to a concert and I hope you bought a poster and I hope you use Framebridge too. Oh, I bought a Nine Inch Nails poster and that is going to get framed at Framebridge. Get started today. Frame your photos or send someone the perfect gift. Go to framebridge.com and use promo code BIR bird to save an additional 15% off your first order. Just go to framebridge.com promo code bird framebridge.com promo code bird. I thought that was really interesting that it is getting younger and more diverse because I like you just thought it was so, so old, but it's apparently is changing. The thing I was thinking of, of course, of course is like probably the most famous rv thing in

movies is christmas vacation the fact that uncle eddie shows up in an rv uncle eddie is the epitome of the backwards hillbilly he's been the butt of the jokes for three films and now he shows up in this rv he empties the toilet in the sewer out front, which is illegal. There's an explosion. Hilarious. That's what people associated RVs with. Yeah. That's not it now. Hipsters RV.

It's definitely had a huge transformation. Yeah. It's like all over Instagram, people are being, yeah. It is. And there's cool ones. There's apps now. I think one's called Hip Camp. I've done that.

You have? It's called Hip Camp? Well, it's glamping. Oh, my God. Glamping's on. Righting is right oh well she said the app is everything with this stuff because it'll like show you where you can go where you can use campgrounds everything hip camp is sites and then there's outdoorsy where you can actually rent like trucks from people like if you wanted to rent it it's like airbnb for rvs oh that's cool

i have plans of using hip camp on this trip with Yeah, right. Because we don't know where we're staying. Yeah, so the whole thing's changing. And I also said, who's your new spokesperson? And they're like, we don't use any. We used to use celebs to sell it. We just use now real people on the ground. So it's all that kind of marketing now being pushed to people. If you had to ask me, my very favorite YouTube clip of all time is the Winnebago.

Yeah, just search for Winnebago, man, if you haven't seen it. It's delightful. And there's a great documentary that was made about him they find him right yes is it called winnebago man yeah it's incredible at one point a fly starts landing on him and he just starts screaming at the fly he goes one fly two flies so get out of here you jackass yeah i used to have the entire thing memorized. But he's a beautiful dude. Incredible history, that guy. He was like a news reporter. Then he got into writing these spots.

Yeah, there's much more to him than just being an angry RV salesman. And at the time they meet up with him, he's largely blind. He feels made fun of. But then he comes to realize how much joy it gives me. Like he learns to embrace it at the end. He goes through a screening. It's a really beautiful documentary. It's a really beautiful document. It is a really beautiful document. If you haven't seen

Winnebago Man, please do watch it. And see Tickled. And see Tickled. Yeah, two great things. Yeah, and check out Chips on Netflix while we're pumping stuff.

Okay. Anyways, so in the era of Winnebago Man, you would run a 110 plug from your house into that thing

to run the electronics. There were very little electronics. Maybe you had a fridge and probably ran on propane. Nowadays, like my bus, I have a 50 amp output for it because I can run four AC units. I have a residential fridge inside. The demands are so much different. And so in all these older campgrounds, they don't have any of the shit. You need to draw the power of a small city.

Pointing out the waste, yes. don't have any of the shit you need to draw the power of a small city pointing out the waste yes speaking of that i wanted to explore the other side of rving which is kind of fascinating to me monica gracie had given me a lot of statistics when i spoke to her like the fact over 600 000 brand new rvs shipped last year over 200 000 up000 up from 2006, the year Robin Williams made that RV film. But one statistic stuck in my brain, the least impressive one. One and a half percent of all RV owners are full timers. I found that number fascinating. Going on that stat of 11.2 million homes having an RV, that means around 168,000 Americans are living in an RV full-time. That's bigger than the population of the town in New Zealand that I grew up in.

I wanted to meet someone who'd made an RV that permanent abode. Well, my name is Anthony Guzman. I'm actually an actor. You can Google me and actually find me if you want. For the last month, I'd kept seeing this RV parked up in a park that I go to. It came and went, but it always ended up parked under the same tree, which is near this little trickling stream. One day I saw a very tanned, quite lithe man emerge from inside. And I said, hello.

Oh, and I did Google him. He was born in Cuba in 1966. He's been in a whole bunch of stuff since the 90s, including El Cartel, a Colombian TV series where he played agent Peter McAllister Head of the DEA It was a pretty big show in Latin America And while his acting career has been up and down over the last 30 years He says an RV has been the one constant

I've been here since 92. I've been living in RVs most of the time. If you are a taxpaying citizen, have a clean license, not a felon, you can park anywhere you want. And where we're sitting right now is a park donated by a wealthy family to the city. This place is an RV sanctuary. I mean, I come to this park to go for a walk most days. And yeah, I guess it would make a really nice place to live. The houses here cost a lot. I mean, he doesn't live here exactly. He lives in an RV, but he tries to make sure the RV is here as much as possible. At five in the morning, you're allowed to pull in here. And then at sundown, you can cruise right out. But that's at nine o'clock at night.

So you got a free, beautiful sanctuary in the middle of, I mean, God land right here for free. This is heaven. Right now, we're sat on a nice green hill. His two dogs sit next to us, both half huskies, half terriers. Oh, my dog's name is Obi, after Obi-Wan Kenobi. And then Niña, for girl in Spanish, Niña. half terriers. Anthony says this lifestyle is not for everyone. He went through a divorce a while back and apart from Obi and Nina, he lives alone. So it's not like he has to jam his whole family into his RV. He's fit and in good health. He says that's important. You have to be able to deal with things when they break down and be savvy to fix things. He doesn't have a toilet in his RV because he says that

creates a smell. And if you're parking in a public place, that starts to bother people. His goal is to be as clean and unobtrusive as possible. You can't really have a kid because if your kid needs to go to the bathroom, you're not going to tell him, I'll go in a little bag. Hold on, let me get the bag ready. No, no, no, it doesn't work like that. You have to be like, I think a single guy, maybe with a wife that's outdoorsy too. He says not having a toilet nearby and other complications that come from living in a small place are all worth it.

If something bothers you, like if you're renting an apartment, you can't just leave your apartment because your neighbor's bothering you. But in an RV, you can do that. You can just take off if anyone's bugging you in any way whatsoever. It's like a different backyard every day. Correct. Correct. And it's not as expensive as people think because you can get insurance like you could tell them the insurance company you're parking it in a place where there's not much crime or much theft to bring down your insurance costs monthly. He says some people he knows who live in RVs just tell the insurance company it's parked up at their grandma's house. And they end up paying just $150 a year for insurance.

Not exactly legal, but one of the tricks that allows some people to live like this. L.A. we're in the biggest democratic state. So this is close to communist as you get, meaning trying to help the poor kind of thing. Yeah, it's a great concept, but you got to be very smart. You can't park in front of a mansion and just have a barbecue with your family because they're not going to like it. They don't pay a million dollars for you to park your RV in front of their mansion. So you have to have lights up here or be a homeless guy, have lights and be you know in the nastiest neighborhood in town it's up to you how you want to be responsible with your rv because i know a

gentleman has five really ugly rvs these are the rvs i was talking about earlier the really run down ones i've seen scattered around the suburban streets on my morning walks. I've seen these RVs parked up there. One man owns five of them and he uses them to rent them out to people. An RV landlord, I guess. Slumlord might be more appropriate. He takes advantage. Actually, a European guy, but I feel sorry for him. But anyways, some people are like that. They give the RV people a bad name because they're homeless. Anthony has empathy for those forced to rent RVs to get off the street or store their stuff in because he was once very close to being in that situation himself. That's what's happening here in LA. The rents are blown sky high in Miami

too, by the way, sky high. A hole in the wall is $1,250. We're talking a studio, tiny studio, $1,250 if you could find it and $1,500. So as an actor, if you don't book, you're screwed. I literally came here, 92 from New York and I had a bunch of money and I didn't book a job for months. I literally drained all my money going into meeting, actually drinking wine to calm down because how nervous I was, because if I didn't book, I'm homeless. So the RV, finally, I figured it out. A light popped up and said, man, I got the lifestyle for this kind of situation. Anthony says you have to be savvy and careful. An RV is less secure than a house and you have to be careful where you park and how you act. What's the biggest disaster you've

had in an RV? Have you been towed? Has anyone been violent? You're in LA. You got fentanyl, that new drug that's basically killed most of the homeless. The few homeless that are left are completely dangerous and out of their minds, but they don't come up to this type. You got to know what area to park. There are a bunch of RVs at Skid Row. I didn't go down there for this podcast to talk to anyone, but there are a bunch more out at Santa Monica as well. I've heard from another source that about 40 of them are owned by one guy who rents them out as well. Anthony avoids certain neighborhoods, but even in good neighborhoods, he says you can still be a large target if you live in an RV. They spray painted it not too long ago, three months ago with graffiti. If you park your RV and they see it on a main street, they'll start writing on it. That is not cool. And I had

to get it off really quickly. But Anthony says the good outweighs the bad. I've made him give me some lowlights over the last 30 years, but there have been loads of highs. He's seen more of America than most Americans have, certainly more than I have. That's it, man. It is absolutely magnificent to drive through America. Every half hour, the government puts rest stops and every rest stop has its own theme. So if you're going through Arizona, it's an Arizona theme. So if you're going through Arizona, it's an Arizona theme. And if you're going through Miami, it's like a beachy theme. And it's awesome. I think about my rent and wonder if an RV could be the life for me.

Ballpark, how much for, you're not going to buy one brand new, how much for a decent one secondhand that you can live in? $15,000. That's not bad. That's not bad. $15 15 grand and up. Mine was, the one you see there was 10 and I put like three into it. Inside it's all got wood floor. I mean, it's really nice. I feel like Anthony has quite a charming kind of life. He's been in a Madonna music video, an episode of Nash Bridges and a few episodes of Lawless. And he says an RV has given him a sense of calm

in the chaotic world of acting. As an actor, I don't sweat now. My trailer paid off. I own everything. So now when I get a part, I could really enjoy it instead of being shoveled and stressed about how am I going to pay my rent?

Honestly, the RV lifestyle, I think it's one of the most amazing privileges you could have as a human being. Like right now, if I felt like it, I can get in my RV and go to Malibu, park right on the ocean, spend the whole day there. I leave Anthony on the hill with his dogs. I keep spotting him over the next week or so. I wave. One time he's getting some water from the stream, which he boils inside.

But I keep thinking about what he said about those other RVs scattered around town. Anthony had told me one man, a man with an accent, owned at least five of them. I wanted to meet this guy, this RV landlord. And then a few weeks later, I did. I'd changed my walking routine so I'd walk past as many of those run-down RVs as possible. Then, on a day in July, a little red car pulls up. A man got out, stooped, clutching a portable battery, and started heading towards one of the RVs. I approached cautiously and said hello.

He offered a handshake and a toothy grin, before apologising for not having his top dentures in. and a toothy grin before apologizing for not having his top dentures in. He has a heavy accent, European, so I ask if he's the guy that owns all these RVs. He says he's not, but he knows the guy that does. It's then I see a whole string of keys hung around his neck, and I'm pretty sure he is the guy. I mean, he's not good at covering it up. Later in our conversation, which he won't let me record, he points to a very old RV down the road and tells me he got that one for free. I ask him how much he rents it out for. He laughs and changes the subject. He tells me he's a part-time comedian, but for asking what I pay in rent, I tell him. He tells me I'm a sucker. I directly ask how much he rents his RVs

out for, but he just laughs his gummy laugh. He tells me he'll think about doing an interview with me, but only on the condition I won't say where his RVs are parked or they'll change the rules. He gives me a phone number. I call it each day. Please leave your message for me. I leave a lot of messages. Oh, hey, it's David Farrier. I bumped into you on the street the other day. And then a few days after that, it's disconnected. I started this episode about RVs with images of golf streams and American holidays in my mind. And that's a big part of RV culture in America.

But I've discovered, like with most things, there's another side too. For some, RVs are the height of luxury, million-dollar homes on wheels. For others, they represent a lifestyle that simply works, pared back and simple, like the $10,000 RV that helps a struggling TV actor keep their dreams alive. And for others, RVs are born out of desperation, a way of being on the street while still having a roof over their heads. To do this, perhaps you pay a man with no upper teeth who got your home for free before renting it out to you. The man tells you he's a part-time comedian, and maybe that makes you the punchline of a bad joke. I can't believe it took the turn into one of my biggest preoccupations is those fucking RVs.

He doesn't have to tell you where they're parked. I'll tell you where they're parked. By your house. About eight of them are in front of my house. Well, first of all, I loved Anthony. He's something. Clearly a sweet dude. He's a sweet dude.

I like Anthony. Unfortunately, most of the urban RVers aren't as conscientious as him. It'd be great if they all behaved like he did. I don't think there'd be a problem. The fact that I was leaving to bring the girls to school and one was engulfed in flames in front of my house and burnt to the ground is more the norm. Yeah. And when you're walking by on your night walk,

quite often the doors open and people are smoking meth inside. And that's the reality. And I was fascinated because I walk here to a court and I'm always walking past them. quite often the doors open and people are smoking meth inside and that's the reality and i was fascinated because i walk here to record and i'm always walking past them and i kept seeing them all and in my mind i was like oh okay so obviously these are pretty run down someone's bought them for cheap and they're living in this area that's what i thought it's a nice area but no what i found out is and it happens out by the beach as well there are these rv landlords they buy them slumlords they buy them or get given them for free and then they rent them back to people i guess

there's two takes on that right they're providing a service to people that would be on the road otherwise also though it seems pretty yeah here's where i think our compassion for anyone that would find themselves homeless clouds our evaluation of the situation, which is I can't go park my bus at the public park. Yeah. We agree that that's a space that is not for camping. It's a public park for playing with kids and having your dogs run around. I have to have a reservation. I have to make an appointment.

I can't just park willy nilly wherever i want how does it work there are like these i mean this guy i met who apparently owns five of them got one for free yeah and is now renting it out to someone junkers like they wouldn't be road worthy we wouldn't allow someone to drive them down the street and then the other thing that i think our compassion clouds a little bit our assessment is no one would suggest that everyone has a right to live in beverly hills like when you pose it that way it sounds kind of preposterous or i have a right to live on martha's vineyard you could make up enough money to go live there yeah the rents are terrible here and that means not everyone can afford to live here it doesn't mean that everyone

can live here out on the middle of a sidewalk and you can't walk down it anymore. It's the weirdest loophole around here. It's legally, it's allowed. And the reason he wouldn't tell me his name or desperately didn't want me to say where he was is that he didn't want the rules to change. And in the back of my mind, I was like, what if there is a family that's in there that's suddenly going to get evicted? I don't want to be the one that's responsible for that. Do you know what I mean? I've never walked by one of these motorhomes that a family was in.

In the evening, they're often open and I see what's happening there. And it's generally three or four dudes gathered and they're doing drugs or they're getting drunk. It'd be one thing if there were a bunch of displaced families with children. That's just not the reality of the situation. Did you know that they were all owned by one person? I'm going to eat crow right now because my friend Leslie was like, you know, those are all owned by a guy and he's renting them out. And I'm like, there's no conspiracy. That's bullshit.

These are just people who are living in them and they own them. And I've increasingly been getting more info that suggests she's right. And now when you did this, I'm like, oh, my God, it's actually. And you talked to the guy. Yeah, no, I met him. And very clearly in the middle of the conversation, he just pointed it to her and he said, I got that one for free. And he did literally have a chain of keys around his neck. But it's weird that it is illegal to park on the street. They're covered in tickets.

Yeah. So the key is, of course course it shouldn't be illegal. If I'm a homeowner that's going on a trip in two days and I want to bring my RV to my house and load it, I should be able to park in front of my house on the street. Totally realistic, manageable, not a problem. So how do they delineate between that and a permanent resident that that thing's never going on any trip? Yeah.

Anthony's not driving that thing to Miami. I just, it's not happening as much as I love him. Anthony Guzman, his RV is drivable. He's driving it. The other ones we see that could barely go down the block. Anthony's looks kind of fancy. Not fancy, but it's like, it's definitely he could drive it anywhere.

That's when I became curious what separated out someone like him and what he's living in to the ones that I walk past every day that are covered in tarp and have fake security cameras on the outside that kind of like look like they're surveilling you. It's a really interesting thing in America. And we wouldn't get that in New Zealand. And it's very LA, I suppose. Yeah. Yeah. I've not seen a study on this.

But anecdotally, I don't see any Anthony's. I see only the permanent parked piles of shit that no one should be living in and are dangerous and at risk of exploding all the time. I don't see any nice motor. You know. Yeah, that's not something you see a lot of. That's not the issue in L.A. is well-maintained motorhomes moving around and going to the beach. That's just not the issue. No, and down on Skid Row, I was talking to someone and there are a bunch of RVs down there and I mean, they've got the top shaved off. So it's just, they're basically just walls. I just

think it's so fascinating that RVs, which in my mind, we're talking about the family holiday and that kind of thing. That's this idealistic version of what america is but there's this other side here now increasingly where they are just used for the sort of the lower kind of echelons of society trying to stay afloat or not it's just such an interesting spectrum that's post-pandemic probably obviously more and like it's increasing we weren't seeing this 10 years ago as much right well and then it's just a bigger debate of whether or not you think everyone has a right to be living everywhere they'd like to be yes yeah but i mean our cars have been towed for parking past three o'clock on my street you've driven me a couple times yeah my car has been towed it's probably so hard to tow them as well right because they're so big

like it's easy to tow a car. You need a wrecker and then the thing's disintegrating as you tow it. So you need a cleanup crew behind the thing. They just don't think it's worth it. I just think we're in a city of nine million or whatever it is. And there's murderers and there's rapists and there's thieves. How far down the list of priority and importance is the motorhomes in front of my house? And by the way i gotta be

clear his notion that you're not gonna no millionaire wants to see someone barbecuing that's actually for me not it it's there's three super high dudes in each one and i would like it for my kids to be able to walk outside of the house at 10 years old so you know totally we're bumping into like their rights versus kids' rights versus my rights. 100%. Yeah. I feel sometimes walking past some of those at night, a little bit like I'm going to take my ear pods out and just be aware of what's going on. I think it's okay for us to, as a civilization and a society, have cities we're proud of and we maintain and we keep beautiful and we attract new people to and we can't just turn every space over to each person who has zero regard for the space and say

completely that's what we got to do yeah the big fix is figuring out exactly what to do with those people and like how to look after them the only side of the equation being approached is the end of the line there's nothing nothing it's too late it's way too late at that yeah and i don't know how i mean yeah i look around the states and it's like everyone's looking around and no one can solve it yet right it's just too big of a problem if i bump into this guy again i'll try and i really wanted to get him he had a certain speaking style that i really wanted to capture but he just really wouldn't let me even begin to record but did that really interesting thing that some people do

when they say, I don't want to be interviewed? Because I said, I'm working on a podcast. I'm making a show about RVs. When they say they don't want to be interviewed, but they still really want to talk to you. So you talked to me for so long. Oh, wow. This was in your recent webworm newsletter,

which is a tip in descending order. Email's the worst voicemails good but talk to people get in front of people yeah if you want someone to talk they can't resist yeah totally people want to talk and even this guy the whole time was being like i don't want to talk about this i don't want to talk about this but see that i got it for free yeah people are so funny part of this show is learning about David. And we learned something. We went to get wings, David's favorite food. He's non-confrontational.

He doesn't want to disturb anything or ask for anything, really. But when it's under the guise of work, when it's like for a doc and for the podcast, he'll do anything. He'll talk to anyone. And I just found that very interesting he can get into a character where he can poke and be a rascal yeah it's a little persona yeah i don't want to if the food's not good or i would never say something confrontational to anyone be in a work sense if i want to be a bit bratty for a documentary or my little web newsletter or the show i love poking people because it's kind of fun yeah you're a provocateur in a way yeah you're a poke poke poke it's a different thing it's kind of fun when it's for something when it's just your life it's not for something

then i don't want to antagonize anyone i just want to go through peacefully you don't value your own comfort or pleasure or whatever it may be you spent 18 on wings and they're undercooked you as the individual don't deserve to make waves but if it's in the name of the masses you find a courage yeah that's exactly it yeah if it's just for me there's not enough in it to create any kind of drama but if i feel like i'm talking on behalf of someone who's worse off or something that gives me the goal to do it or something. I don't know if it's because I'm a nice person. It's just like an excuse.

But I would argue it shouldn't be either or. So you should get what you paid for. They made a promise that they're going to serve food that's prepared for this price. You deserve it. Best wings in America. It says it on the sign. For the record, those wings were good. They are really good.

They are good wings. I took us for good wings, right wings were good. They are really good. They are good wings. I took us for good wings, right? You did. They were really good. And good mozzarella sticks. Oh, wow. We find outlets to explore different pieces of our personality. You've probably been nurtured to not have conflict.

I mean, New Zealand. Absolutely. Yeah. So that's all ingrained. But there's a major part of you that is a rascal like rob oh yeah part of the reason i wanted to get more into documentary was it was an excuse you can roam around in people's houses which is great you can just like arrive with your camera and set up and it's just given free reign which is very funny to me and you can antagonize

people and it's sort of part of it all and that's kind of fun it's fun seeing what people do it feels and how they react like a safe even though it's not a just feels like a justified yeah exactly my massages yeah safe way to get touched yes yes i love that that's yet another appeal of our vein is you're a new person in a new place every time you arrive. So you can really be anyone. It's a fresh start every day. Yeah, I love that. Yeah. I really love that. Maybe you and your wife are swingers when you go to Nebraska in a motorhome.

Who knows what you are where you are. Try it all on. Oh, this was fascinating. And took turns, twisty turns that I enjoyed. Could be swithy. Could be swithy. More American, less American. More. RVs are less American. More.

RVs are very American. Oh, they are. They are. I also don't support people doing drugs in front of your kids outside the front of the house. Yeah. Unless it's weed or shrooms. I can live with that. Then it's cool.

Love you, David. Thanks, guys. Geil.