Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Flightless Bird: Smokey Bear

Episode Date: March 5, 2024

This week on Flightless Bird, David Farrier sets out to understand the origins of Smokey Bear, an educational mascot who’s turned into the longest-running PSA in American history. Farrier then gets a tip that there is a real Smokey Bear, so travels to the sleepy town of Capitan, New Mexico. Farrier searches for Smokey’s alleged gravesite, meeting with park ranger “Max” to understand the secrets of Smokey, a bear that ended up with their own Zip Code. Along the way, Farrier learns about another local legend, Billy the Kid - leading to the question: Who is the most famous local? Smokey Bear, or Billy the Kid? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm David Farrier in New Zealand, I accidentally marooned in America and I want to figure out what makes this country tick. Now, a while back, we did a whole episode about bears and how the shaggy, hairy creatures help shape the experience of the American outdoors. What we're talking about is a relationship. The bear is a thing that you can get your, literally, you can get your your hands on or it can get its claws on you. But we're also talking about nature as an agent in our lives. In that episode, we briefly touched on the cultural icon that is Smokey Bear, an educational mascot who's turned into the longest running PSA in American history. Somehow, a cartoon that existed outside of Disney ended up being one of the world's most recognizable fictional characters.

Don't play with matches, don't play with fire, only you can prevent wildfires. And America takes the image of Smokey seriously. His image is protected by US Federal law, pirate Smoky, deface Smoky, sell Smoky, and who knows what could happen to you. I wanted to learn more about how this bear got so big. Who made Smoky? What's Smoky doing? And why do millions of Americans care about a bear that's not even real? So grab your shovel, rip jeans and weirdly muscular torso

and prepare to prevent some forest fires. Because this is the Smokey Bear episode. Touched down in America. I'm a fly this bird. Touched down in America. All right, so you're saying smokey bear not smokey the bear. We've already had a debate before we even started this because it's smokey the bear versus smokey bear. Yeah, I always thought it was smokey the bear. Yeah. It's smokey bear.

Are you sure? There's never been a that. I think colloquially we inserted it because it sounds better. Smokey the Bear. Is this like the Mandela effect? It's Smokey Bear. In order to maintain the correct rhythm, the writers added a the between Smokey and Bear. Yeah.

I get into this because it's the song. Yeah. So this is song that I'm going to play in the documentary. And to make that song sound good, Smokey the song. Yeah. So there's a song that I'm going to play in the documentary and to make that song sound good, Smokey Tha Bear. But officially on the website, all the official channels, Smokey Bear. Wow. Would be like calling you Monica the Padman.

You know, would you like to be called Monica the Padman? I don't hate it. Monica the. It sounds very important. It could be a rebrand. It could. Maybe when I'm 40. I'm going to call you Monica.

What's your relationship with Smokey Bear? Was he part of your childhood? Was he a joke? Was he everywhere? I have to be honest. He's very minimal. He doesn't play a big role in my childhood or life. I definitely heard of him and knew of him Smokey the Bear.

I knew it had to do with like... Smokey Bear? What is the timeline? When did the come into play? When did the song happen? The song happened in 52. So it's a long time. Well, then, yeah.

It's been forever. I mean, my whole life was the... I think we can call it Smokey the Bear. Okay. There's a whole Reddit thread about this that even in a movie in the 80s, they said Smokey the bear says you can prevent forest fires. It sounds so much better. They should change it.

Well, the reason is because it doesn't actually make sense. It's not his last name is Bear. It's not Mr. Bear. Exactly. He just is a bear. He is a bear. He's named Smokey. You're completely right. It makes no... Smokey Bear sounds like something they'd say in New Zealand, wrong. Rob, was he an icon for you growing up?

Yeah. Yeah, I knew a lot. We've had things in school about him and we watched the videos. What? Because maybe we're in a more wooded area. It was more treminous. Well, no, there's lots of trees in Georgia. I mean, we need him here.

I mean, walking around, because I walk up Griffith Park all the time, and there's a smoky bear cut out of him. What? And it's like, don't light a fire. So I get this is maybe like Bader Meinhoff. Now I'm going to start seeing him everywhere. No, he is though. He's everywhere.

If you start looking around for smoky, he's always in the woods. He's always around. And I've seen a lot of him. Does he have a monopoly on fire safety? Yeah, he does. And we get to that. He is the longest running PSA in America history. Yeah. He is kind of fascinating.

I'm trying to think about other icons that we have in New Zealand. I've talked about Harold the Draft. He's like an icon for health, sort of health care and sort of education. Right. We've got this dairy called Foursquare and that's got this iconic man, we know him. Icons are such a funny thing. These characters that just are so ubiquitous. Yeah, they just get into your brain. Well, we've talked about a lot of the serial mascots, Tony the Tiger.

Wasn't there a dare dog? Oh, we had dare, but I don't remember. Was it the drug program? Oh, there was a dog, but I don't remember his name or anything. Oh, really? We had that dare anti-drug program in New Zealand. I don't remember coming with a dog. I wonder, were they for profit, dare? I'm curious. Do you think back in the minute was a bit, some sort of scam going on?

A little bit. No, it's a nonprofit. Oh, okay, okay. But it's still part of the war on drugs. You always hear about, yeah, it was, yeah, it definitely had that behind it. So this is one of these episodes where I recorded this when I was recording the Roswell episode. Okay. Because I had a dud in Roswell and then I was like, I've got to record another flight

this bird. And I did some Googling and my friend Jess was like, the Smokey Bear Museum is near here. Wow. And so this is where this episode came from. So this is part one of the Smokey Bear documentary where we learn a little bit about the the in the bear and some other exciting facts. Now young fellas been having a lot of fun around here today. Haven't you Kevin in the great outdoors? This is probably the most confusing flightless Bird episode I've ever made, because when

you're dealing with something so iconic, so legendary, it's hard to know what's real and what's just legend. I'm going to sing a song about someone who lives in the forest all the time. Like is it Smokey Bear or Smokey That Bear? In the iconic Eddie Arnold song from 1952 it's definitely Smokey the Bear, which is what I got it wrong. They added the TH, so it would fit the rhythm of the song better. Officially, it's just Smokey Bear.

And at its most simple, Smokey Bear is just a big ad campaign. A campaign to stop fire. An ad campaign that wasn't even meant to involve a bear. Good morning, young man! When Bambi came out in 1942, the US Forest Service had just started its campaign to stop forest fires, and they wanted Bambi as their symbol. Walt Disney said yes, we'll end you Bambi, but only for a year. So when the year was up, the Forest Service needed a brand new icon. And so Harry Rossell, who worked for the fire service, sketched out Smokey, a brown bear who hated fires. There have been modifications

and changes to Harry's idea, but since 1944, cartoon Smokey has been the face of wildlife prevention in America. Which is why I got very confused when someone told me that Smokey was a real bear who was buried in a grave in New Mexico. How could a cartoon be buried? Yet again, America had me bamboozles. Do you get a lot of bears around here in this particular area? Yeah, North American black bear. And not so much here in the town, but up in the mountains, definitely.

If you go to Rui Do so it's not too far. They get elk, wild horses still in town and occasional black bears I'd arrived in the tiny town of Capitan in New Mexico. It was in the middle of nowhere Albuquerque was about three hours north and the Mexican border was three hours south I'd come in search of Smokies alleged gravesite and had met up with a park ranger called Max Being American you kind of know about Smoky, but a lot of people around the world know about Smoky, so he's really a popular icon. In fact, that's one of the reasons I became a park ranger, was because of Smoky, and I found myself here after so many years.

Max has brought me to the Smoky Bear Historical Park here in Capitaine. He's wearing jeans and a buttoned up New Mexico forestry division shirt. What sort of people are you coming through? All sorts. You guys from New Zealand and we got people from Thailand that came earlier this summer. But all sorts, mostly in the summertime, we get more of the crowds. Capitan is a tiny town. It covers about three square miles, and less than 1,500 people live here. And it's famous for Smokey Bear. Because it turns out

while Smokey started as a cartoon, and what sounds like some kind of crazy magic, he ended up being a real bear too. Max tells me that back in 1950, a tiny bear cub was rescued from a fire here in the Capitan Mountains. And that cub was brought to the attention of the US Forest Service's PR people. Here was not only a real bear, but a cute cub, and not just a cute cub, a cute cub that had been rescued from an out-of-control

fire. The Forest Service had found their secret weapon, their ultimate symbol. What was it about this particular bear that sort of drew you into this world of, I guess, conservation and nature? I guess just his story being a cub and surviving such a horrific fire and he's such a cute cully bear so you get behind that story and then him with this Ranger, iconic Ranger hat I always wanted to have a Ranger hat like that with the National Park Service. I noticed Max is wearing a hat today, but it's just an ordinary cap, not Smoky's round Ranger hat. Apparently working as a ranger at the Smoky Museum doesn't get you Smoky's iconic hat after all. We don't have the cool cap like the Park Service does, but I'm still a Park Ranger.

He takes me inside to the museum, which is basically a large log cabin. It's charming, and the history of Smoky is up on the walls all around us. I was surprised to find out that Smoky Bear was a real bear. I had no idea about this. Yes, yes. In fact, he was found just 15 miles from the museum up in the Capitaine Mountains in 1950. Ray Bell, the game morning thatren that took care of him. Of course, he knew the ad campaign of Smokey first.

So he's like, oh, we got a perfectly good bear to become the living symbol. We found him in a fire, so let's name him Smokey. He went to the US Forest Service who had the rights to Smokey. A beer cub that had survived a forest fire. It was like all of the US Forest Services Christmases had come at once. This bear cub was both a symbol of the horrors

of wildfire and a symbol of hope and survival. Max introduces me to his colleague, a huge Smokey fan. I'm Wendy and I tell the people about Smokey. During World War II, back in 1944, the campaign started and they tried different cartoon characters like Bambi and stuff and they didn't fit that. So when they found Smokey, they thought he would be the perfect icon and the living symbol for the fire prevention since he was sent a fire on the Capitan Mountains and it burned over about 17,000 acres. But he was a lucky bear. Yeah, he climbed a tree

and all four of his paws were burned even on his back side. The adult animals know how to get away from a fire so the mom left Smokey to his own devices and then the fire crews found them clean to a tree. Ray Bell, a ranger from the New Mexico Department of Game and Fish, heard about the cub and took him in, before taking him direct to the Forest Service with the idea of the bear being some kind of mascot. The Forest Service were keen. And that's when the ad council came in, taking the story and spinning it into legend. The ad council's this other very American thing.

Starting its life as pure American propaganda. Back in the 40s it was called the wartime advertising council. Existing purely to drum up support for the war effort in World War II. They made ads to get Americans to enlist in the army and buy war bonds. How did they come to work on the Smokey campaign? Well, during WWII there was this big fear about an invading Japanese army setting parts of America on fire, using missiles launched from submarines, or by sending fiery balloons up into American airspace, so called balloon bombs.

So the wartime advertising council had to alert Americans to this danger. Coming up with slogans like, forest fires aid the enemy. And Al-Khaelessness? That's a secret weapon. More recently the ad council recognised that parts of their campaign were pretty racist. Stoking paranoia of non-white Americans and foreigners, and illustrating Japanese people in pretty disparaging ways. But yeah, scared of Japanese fires, the ad council ended up repping this bear cub and attaching him to the existing Smoky Bear campaign.

And their message of keeping an eye out for fires has become the longest running PSA in America's history. Smoky is now a giant blow up bear in the annual Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade. And it seems nearly every time Smokey has a birthday, America really puts in an effort to do something special. Hello Smokey Bear and Happy Birthday! I'm Joe Acaba, Expedition 32 flight engineer on the International Space Station. It is your 68th birthday and what a journey it has been. In 2012, NASA took a Smokey Bear toy into space and wished him happy birthday.

Thank you for all you do. I wish you all the best in your next 68 years of public service. An astronaut holds the doll and lets it float in front of him in zero gravity, as he thanks various American institutions responsible for the spare. It's sort of surreal in how specific he is. And I would like to take this opportunity to recognize that you are managed by the U.S. Forest Service in cooperation with the National Association of State Foresters and the Ad Council, an organization that improves change and improves lives. And back here on earth in the museum, the legend lives on. back here on earth in the museum the legend lives on. He lived to be 26, average age of a North American black bears from 20 to 25 years old. So he lived past that 26 and he actually

got to retire as a federal employee before he died. And what does that mean? That's like an official thing that the state puts on him? Since he was a fire prevention bear for the U.S. Forest Service, he was basically a federal employee in Washington DC and the zoo. So then when he got old enough they retired him and he actually got like a pension and everything. Smokey spent most of his life at the National Zoo in Washington 26 years of it. Despite the fact that bears can't read he got 13,000 letters a month and was visited by millions. I'm not sure Rizu is the best life for a bear, but it's probably better than being burned alive up to your mother abandons you.

Smoky mostly ate bluefish and trout, and he loved peanut butter. And then when he passed, they moved him from Washington back to his hometown to be buried. That's how he is in our backyard right now, buried. Smoky, dead and buried. One could only dream of getting this sort of treatment in death. Most of us have forgotten after about a week, this bear lives on.

He is more famous than the precedent was back then. He had his own zip code. And he got more letters than the precedent did. I checked, and they weren't bullshitting. The dead bear zip code is 202-52. The only Americans to have their own private zip code, the current president, and Smokey. Smokey Bear.

Just another very normal American story. So did you have any idea about any of this? That's incredible. I did not. Yeah, they really, they take Smokey so seriously here. Yeah. So did you have any idea about any of this? That's incredible. I did not. Yeah, they really, they take Smokey so seriously here. Yeah. Own zip code along with the current president. And also just things like that NASA video is so unusual to watch because it's like a

NASA astronaut up there with a little Smokey Bear toy giving this speech almost like there's a gun to his head, name dropping all the people involved in the creation of Smokey. And then I went on to the Smokey Bear website because it's so ingrained in America's culture and because it's such a big touchstone. There's so many rules about how you can use his image and what you can use him for. And there's instructions on if you've got a Smokey Bear outfit, how to wear it properly. If you're a park ranger, how to talk about him. He's almost treated like this religious icon or something. Wow.

I had no idea about so much of this. It started off as a sad story. Well, you're the fact that his mum just bailed. Abandoned. And left the cub up a tree as little paws burn. Oh, burn? I mean, it's really great. They rescued him. That's a great thing. But yeah, incredibly sad. I mean, how do you feel if your mum just left you up. Oh, burn? It's, I mean, it's really great. They rescued him.

That's a great thing. But yeah, incredibly sad. I mean, how do you feel if your mom just left you up a tree to burn? I would be mad at her. Horrific. I always panic about what I'll do with a friend if there's like a dangerous situation, if I'll be a hero or panic and run off. If we were walking up Griffith Park, Monica, you and I, and a forest fire was moving in

and you climbed a little tree to get off the ground and I just ran. You know, I worry that I would do that. I think you would. So I am down deep, a little bit of a coward. I know this because there's ever been threats of violence kind of around my friends. I noticed myself starting to freeze. So I'm worried I'm in that mode. Yes.

And I wouldn't be very protective. So I think I would be potentially like Smokey, the bears mum. My friend Anthony, shout out the same Anthony from Sinked. We went to Cannes together in college, Cannes Film Festival as a study abroad. And he's going to be very mad that I am telling the story because it's one of his biggest regrets. Andy listens to this. And he does listen to this.

He doesn't listen to Sinked. It's the only show he doesn't listen to. And we got a big point of contention. So we were at this fancy hotel world, like a bunch of celebrities stay. And our director is like, after the premieres and stuff, you can go to the hotels and walk around

and see who you see. Oh, bump into some people. Exactly. So him and I went up the elevator, just like went as high up as we could go, like highest level and there was no, you know, often. Yeah, just see what you see. You need a swipe usually to get up there, don't you?

Exactly, but no swipe. Oh my God, I'm on the loose. We stepped out and we're just walking down the hall and then there are two security guards. Oh. And, okay, like who cares? Anthony Panix. He full on panic? And you had done a crime by going to this level with the hotel.

Yes, and starts sprinting. Oh, he runs? Yeah, he starts running and then I start running because- Wait, what was his mentality? Was he was worried he was on the wrong floor? We have to call him. This is so interesting. I understand the mindset.

If you're feeling like you're not meant to be somewhere. Right. You can sometimes- Why run like that? I mean, now he wouldn't. We were in college, but still, we were both like kind of running down the stairs and he pushed me out of the way. And then Kev running and ran outside.

Oh, this is incredible. You didn't just run to the elevator and go back down. No, then we'd have to wait at the elevator. The whole point is to get out of there. No, I mean, I feel I'm worried I am that person in time to stress that I would be that person. I kind of do get that vibe from you. You know, talk a big game, but when it comes to the crunch, I'm pushing you aside. Yeah, there's a snake.

I'm leaving up that tree. Hey, let's call him. It's his birthday. It's a grand hog's day. And Ian, Elizabeth's anniversary and Anthony's birthday. Yeah, that's a lot. Lots of phone calls to this. I'm worried about the school. I'm happy Groundhog's Day. Yeah, that's a lot. Lots of phone calls today. I'm worried about the school.

Happy Groundhog's Day. Are you recording again? Yes! No! But we're recording Flightless Bird. I'll show you like and listen to. Was I just such a fan favorite? You guys just bring me back.

Yeah, exactly. Also, happy birthday. Thank prove me back. I just loved it. Exactly. Also, happy birthday. Thank you so much. And happy Groundhog's Day. Thank you. I don't hear anyone else wishing me happy birthday. Happy birthday. Happy birthday.

Thank you, guys. Thank you. That's so kind. Thank you. You're going to love what I'm about to ask you about today. Oh, God. Anthony, what was actually happening in your brain when you ran from the security guards and pushed me down the stairs? But like, I just need to know, because the reason

we're talking about this is David is essentially saying he thinks he would do that too. David, I don't think we've ever met. You would definitely do that. Right? I know. I get that vibe as well. And so we're trying to get to the bottom of what's happening in the brain. So the security people would have just said, like, you guys

can't be a parent. I said, OK, like, why the run? I don't know what you're talking about. But hypothetically, if I did, it would be because I'm about to get in trouble. That's all it was. It was like, we're breaking a rule, but you weren't even really breaking it. Exactly. That's what I think.

But yes, I think for me, it's just like, do not get in trouble. Do you relate to that a lot, David? Oh, absolutely. I get anxious about things and I go to worst case scenario. Yes, exactly. But then you create the worst case scenario. I mean, all the time. Okay.

I mean, I remember even on that trip, I don't know how it came up, but someone said, we're talking about how we see ourselves or something. I was like, in my head, I'm a person silent in the back corner of the room and no one notices. And then a friend was like, that is not what's happening. You take up so much. Can we talk about the Monica push? Yeah, let's talk about it. What are your questions? Just you kind of seeing Monica there and giving her a little shove out of the way.

I'm like, I don't know what this is. Listen, listen, listen. It was more just like, keep going, Monica. You're not going fast enough. You gotta keep going. That's some nice revisionist history for you. I did write it all down somewhere. I don't know.

But like, I wrote down the account. You did. That day, like it fresh? Diarrheated. Yeah. I kept like a blog or something. That while I was gone. Oh my God. That's why I was gone. Oh my God.

I love it. Thank you. Well, Anthony is now the father of three. He's grown up. He's not pushing people down the street. I'm a good person now, people. He's a pretty good person. He's not a feminist, but it is his birthday. I really don't know how I became a character in all of this.

I'm still majoring in calls. Because you're not someone who stands in the corner. That's just the truth. All right. Well, thanks for chatting. Shout out to my sister, Nalisa. She loves Flatless Bird. Oh, great.

Shout out. Thank you. All right. Good luck, everyone. Bye. Stay tuned for more Flatless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. I had an extra hour in the day. Like what would I do? And I would say go to a movie, but that's not long enough. Exactly. It's not a good use of the hour. You're going to be annoyed because you have to walk out of that movie halfway through. Exactly. So the question is, if you had that hour, what would you use it for? And the best way I think to squeeze that special thing into your schedule is to

know what's important to you and make it a priority. And you can see where I'm going with this. Fits into that our schedule. I have been talking a lot actually about boundaries with my therapist, which apparently everyone knows about except me. So I'm learning about that. They're hard. They're really hard because we're people pleases, but we also need to like protect our own brains and hearts.

So boundaries is my current therapy topic. Well, we love therapy over here and we really think there's no downside to it. And better help is such an easy way because it's online. It's flexible to do your schedule. You can switch therapists if one isn't right for you, which is common. That's always my panic. It's like, oh, I'm going to get locked into this thing. Right. You can change if you need to.

Exactly. So learn to make time for what makes you happy with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com. This episode of Flightless Bird is brought to you by Booking.com. Booking. Yeah. Booking.com offers so many possibilities across the US for all the travelers you want to be.

Traveling's fun. I'm feeling antsy for some travel. It hits you, doesn't it? And travel represents different things to different people. Some people can go far, some people can go far. But even just traveling to a different state is amazing. You get to do that for this show all the time. I feel incredibly lucky and you want booking to be easy and booking.com gives you that.

Yeah. From relaxing beach resorts to remote cabins, so many places you can go and on booking.com you can be wherever you want to. I'm going to South by Southwest for the first time and actually all the official accommodation is crazy and gone. So I'm actually going to try booking.com to do this because I need to find something and I need help with that stuff. My brain isn't gray.

I need a website that makes it easy and simple and logistics. So booking.com will help me for that. This spring, check out booking.com for your ideal hotel or vacation home, no matter where you go in the US. But whoever you want to be on booking.com, booking.com. Did you used to have a thing when you're a student in America, we would call up the radio station and get them to dedicate a song. Oh, that was a thing is I'm trying to think of was it a real thing or was it just a rumor that you did because in New Zealand when I was maybe 15 ish, there was a real phase in my year where you would call up, I don't know, like the 8pm radio show, like, can you dedicate Mr. Boombastic to Ali or something?

And did you? From David. I did a couple of times, but I remember being like on the call and sweating so nervous because they get so many requests that yours don't always go through. But every night I'd call you, you know, but one time it went through and I just remember it was probably the most excited I've ever been in my life and also scared. Yeah, you were.

What if Ellie hears that? Like, what does that mean? Well, my God, she's heard it now. What are we, what's going to be like a school tomorrow? Like, is she going to want to go out with me now? Like, what's going to happen? I did go out with her for a day. After that, she dumped me for Paul Hartley.

It was a good day though. We didn't talk to each other on that day. It was just an agreement that we were going out. Yeah. Maybe I was a bit younger. It's probably 17. And I think it was maybe like 13-ish or something. Okay, but what song did you request?

Mr. Bombastic? Mr. Bombastic. What is that? Shaggy. Yeah, you know this song. I know Shaggy, but do I know Mr. Bombastic? Okay, just very quickly. Yeah, we got to hear it. Okay. Rest in peace, Shaggy. Yeah, you know the song. I know Shaggy, but do I know Mr. Bonfist? Okay, just very quickly.

Yeah, we gotta hear it. Okay, Rest in Peace Shaggy. He died? He died, yeah. Recently? Um, fairly recently. Oh no, that is sad. No, he didn't.

Oh, he's not dead? No. Oh my God. What, he's still alive? Yeah, he's not dead. I've got to get him for the show. I thought he was dead. Why'd you think that?

I'm so happy. Who are you thinking of? Are you sure, Rob? No, this is an article. Here's an article shaggy. I'm not dead. It was a rumor? I guess.

Yeah, it must have been. Okay, I'm not the only one. He's not dead. Wait, this is crazy. This is a great day for me. Imagine one of your heroes. You thought he's dead. He's alive. crazy. This is a great day for me. Imagine one of your heroes. You thought he's dead. He's alive.

This one says he died like two days ago. But this is one article. Wait, what is this? And it's not listed anywhere else. No, you cannot do this. Hold on. It's 11 a.m. Eastern Time on Wednesday. No, you can't.

Take me on this rollercoaster. January 31st, our beloved singer Shaggy passed away. Wait, are you kidding? No way. I don't think this is real though. No, are you kidding? No way, this is... I don't think this is real though. No, on Wikipedia it doesn't say death day or anything. Yeah, that's what I... So maybe he's one of these people that are constant rumors.

It's just one of those names with his constant rumors that they're passed away. Jeff Goblin gets this, he'll be like, Jeff's fallen off a cliff in Iceland or something. What a weird life where everyone's just saying you died all the time. He's got an Instagram account. He's 55. Because he's not dead. No.

I don't think so. I've hated this. This is very stressful. Oh, right. Yeah, you posted stories today. At the Grammys. Oh, because it's Greg. Oh my God.

What in the fuck? This is to prove. Okay, this is Mr. Bombastic. This was so big in New Zealand. Nothing Monica. It's not really ringing a bell. I know this song. Yeah, this was, look, I can only talk to New Zealand.

This was so big. And so to get that dedicated to Ali was such a big achievement. Was on the edge, it would have been like 97. Wow. He's on tour in Australia right now. South. I thought he was at the Grammys. What are you saying?

Pictures. The information flowing in is hectic today. There's photos of him and some Grammy stuff, but he's also playing Melbourne tonight, 18 hours ago. All right. I love this. I can't remember why we're talking about this. Radio dedications.

Radio dedications. Yeah. Actually, I would have assumed that you would have been too nervous to do something like that. And so I was nervous, but you did it. So maybe you wouldn't push someone down the stairs or run. If there's a fire for shaggy for a shaggy for a smoky bear. Shaggy's on fire is the new headline. Yeah, thanks Monica.

I like to think like we all would that I would react in a brave way to a situation, but I just always suspect that I am a bit of a coward. Wait, this is actually so sim. So I was sleeping last night and I was half, I think I was sleeping or half asleep or something. You should be clear on that. I know.

But my sleep is weird. It's a blend to the story. I know. Can we establish if you're asleep or awake? No, I don't know. There's a chance I was sort of half waking up from sleep or I have weird sleep, hence my seizures. And so I heard a car and it sounded like a big screeching. It sounded like a crash.

OK. And I thought, oh, no, I should go see. But you know what? In the middle of the night. Someone might need my help. Yes. There's a car on fire, maybe. Maybe I can drag someone out. Well, yeah.

I mean, I was just like, what just happened? And then I just sat there for so long thinking what do I do? No, I was laying still with my eyes closed. I was wondering what's my responsibility in this life like it got deep because it's the middle of the night and I'm a small girl in pajamas at what point are you required to leap into action? Exactly. And I don't know what it was. Of course, if I see something going on, yes, I'll like call 911. But I then was like, I don't think I should go out in the middle of the night and go be up by myself dealing with this.

But then I thought, well, should I just call 911 and say, I think I heard a crash. Worst case scenario. What if I didn't? You don't want me driving into a call this podcast. You turn on the radio, they say a family of five burnt to death last night. Because no one called the police. Help, no one called the police, no one did anything. That hasn't happened, by the way, Monica.

It's OK. So I have a thing. And this is maybe a bit weird. I've actually seen that on the news. Stop. Rob. The most steal-as-fire kills family. I've seen Naughty today. Also, fire. Fire is actually people would call more fast.

That's not maybe not. Yes, because if a card drove by and saw fire, you'd call, but if you didn't know. Those people were sleeping and didn't wake up. Shut up. I have a thing, and this is maybe specific to. People were sleeping and didn't wake up. Shut up. I have a thing, and this is maybe specific to me, and my brain can be annoying sometimes. I have a fear when I'm walking past a car and I see a car seat, my brain always imagines there's a baby in there.

Yeah. There'll be a blanket in there, and there always cars have been parked. And so often, if you see me and I walk a lot. Yeah, you do. So often you'll see me sometimes stopped by a car staring in and I've gone back to check that someone hasn't left a baby in there. I have this fear. Just like you said, if suddenly hearing a report, a baby was left. Because in New Zealand, there was a string of this happening.

People, you know, you forget your child in the car. Some of this has happened. So ever since I've read those stories, I'm always worried. So I'm often, I walk past a car and if you're watching me, I'll turn around and go back and look in to check if there's a baby in there. But then one time I did it in LA and someone sort of yelled at me because they thought I was casing out the car. Exactly. To steal and I was like trying to explain,

I'm checking there's not a baby in there. And then that does sound weird. And I said, did we hit as far? Well, what'd you do if there was? a baby in there. And then that does sound weird. And I sound weird as fuck. What would you do if there was? Would you break the window? I'd break the window. With a baby, I'd break one of the window. I think I'd break a window nearby.

So I do want the glass to go on the baby. Immediately? What if they're just like, oh god. Oh no, that's a really good question. No, I wouldn't. And this would go back to my how would I actually react in a situation. I think I'd wait. I'd see if the baby looked stressed out or sweaty. Mind you babies, you can't tell can you? Because they're manipulative. They're often sleeping or dead. How to tell.

Fuck! Well you could, oh god, it's got so dark. No, I would argue you can't leave a baby in a classic ever. You're never supposed to. So I think if you've done that and I have walked by, David Ferriers walked by and has smashed all your windows, I think that's just something you have to deal with. You're just going to hold the baby? Like what do you, I think-

I'd keep an eye on the baby because then it looks like I'm stealing the baby. Yeah, you stole the baby. I think what you do, you just call 911 always. Like there's no reason to take action. Unless the baby's super stressed. Well, yes, if something bad is happening, of course. But if you maybe I think I would just stand there for like five full minutes or six minutes.

And if no one is coming back, then I call 911 and I say, like, there's a baby in this car. I've been standing and no adult has been in sight for five or 10 minutes. Can you please come? Yeah. Maybe check if it's unlocked before you break the window. Don't break. Just call the police.

Luckily for me, there's never been a baby. I look in there and it's just an empty car seat with like a blanket or something in there. Right. But that's my fear. Like you had that fear last night. Was it a crash? I'm always like, is there a baby in that car? And ever since that idea has been in my head, I've never been able to undo it.

And it's almost like a compulsion I have now. That's really interesting. I'm always checking for babies anywhere I am looking for babies. I'm looking right here now. Is there a baby someone's left? I'm looking. I can't see any. Anyway, it's just me.

We forget our things. We do, we do. But would you have gone out in the middle of the night if you thought you heard a crack? I also. No, I'd go back to sleep. You would. I think I would.

It's disorientating as well, because you're half out of it, you know? Exactly. It depends how big the bang was. Yeah. And that was like, it didn't sound that loud. And then I heard other cars driving by. So I thought, okay, there's other people in the world who would see it. If it was bad And would do something.

They were actually out near it. I know, but I know that's a bad way to be. But then you get into that whole bystander effect. Yeah. And all those people driving by, like one of those other people would do something about it. Exactly. Being human, it's tricky. What would Smokey Bear do?

That's the question. If it was on fire, Smokey Bear would. If there was a fire involved, he would be there immediately. No fire, he doesn't give a fire. Fire prevention, I don't think he has a fire signature. That's something he'd be upset. Once it started, he doesn't care. Yeah, he doesn't know what to do.

Well, he got burned up, so he should run the other way. He has trauma as a reaction and just gets triggered. Mama. Okay. He has part two of Deep Dive Into Smoky. What do you think it is about this bear that has captured not only America's kind of imagination, but the world? I mean, from New Zealand, I knew about Smoky the Bear. Probably his heartfelt story of surviving a fire and becoming this icon that was already in place and then he became the living symbol of it.

So it just all fell in the place, I think, made him a legend. Are there any other icons in this part of the country that would come close to smoking? Billy the Kid. He just said Billy the Kid, aka Henry McCarty, aka William H. Bonney. An American outlaw from the Old West who killed about 21 men before he himself was killed in 1881 aged 21. William H. Bonney, he killed 21 men and he was just a kid. Billy the Kid. Billy the Kid's appeared in countless films and books since and he's the other American legend in these parts.

But not the biggest legend, apparently. If you go down 380, about 15 miles from here, that's where he escaped from this great escape, Billy the Kid. So, yeah, he's a legend, New Mexico legend too, but he's from New York. So Smokey's actually a native New Mexican, so he surpasses Billy the Kid. He's the most famous native New Mexican. He didn't survive for long after escaping, right? Or did he get away for a while? He did get away for a while, but then Pat Garrett caught up to him and shot him. And he did die a young age, I think around 21. So Smokey lived longer than Billy the Kid

26 and Billy 21. I guess the main difference was that America wanted Billy the Kid dead, while they desperately wanted to keep Smokey alive. His adopted family treated the beer like royalty. Ranger Ray Bell, his wife and kids, had their own name for Smokey. Smokey's nickname was Hotfoot Teddy. Was he a friendly beer? Was he violent?

What was the deal? Would he eat you if he got too close? He really liked... Oh, uh, Judy Bell. Judy Bell. Who's Judy Bell? Judy Bell is Ray Bell's daughter. He liked Judy and her mother better than he did the guys because they bandaged him and stuff. And so he didn't like them and he would always run and buy them and stuff and take off. And then he would play with their dog. He was a wild animal. I mean, he would be dangerous as an adult, but as a little cub, you know, he got along with the ladies of the household and their pets. I go and poke around the museum.

There's a collection of posters and clippings and photos from ad campaigns. I noticed some photos of the smoky hot air balloon, which had a headline making crash back in 2004. But he can't imagine what's about to happen. There's smokey up there. Oh, he hit the tower! Footage on YouTube shows the hot air balloon getting snagged on a radio tower. The kids and pilots stuck hundreds of metres in the air, a bit like Smokey Up His Tree.

Everyone on the ground's worried they'll just get electrocuted up there. Time's running out. The basket's weight is causing the balloon to tear even more. At any second, the three riders could come crashing down 600 feet to the ground. Eventually the three of them end up climbing out of the basket and down the tower. It takes them two hours. The balloon died that day, but smokey, he lived on. Invincible.

There are now so many iterations of smokey, there's a bear for everyone. Sometimes he looks sort of pathetic and small, Other places he looks sort of beat up. And then there's the cut, muscly, slightly sexual Smokey. Jeans, bounce, bear chest. In a little cabinet, Wendy shows me what appear to be hundreds of Smokey bear artifacts. There's Ray Bells filled binoculars that we finally got those in here. Do you have a favourite Smokey Bear item? I do. If there was this horrible thing to say but if there was a fire here what would you rescue?

I would rescue these little booties. They're little house slippers. Little Smokey booties. This place has everything. So many things I'd forgotten why I'd come here in the first place. To visit Smokey Bear's grave. To pay tribute to America's greatest bear. You should go out on our gardens

and that's where Smokey is buried. If you wanna see his burial site, it's not a very long trail. He had a coffin. Yes, he had a coffin. There's a big boulder out back that has the plaque on it. Yeah, people drive by and they're like, oh, we didn't realize she were here

and we didn't realize Smokey was a real bear. And I'm like, yes, he was a real bear. It was the same. I'm one of those idiots that didn't even know that he was real. We don't call you guys idiots. So we just very kind. And so this idiot goes out the back onto a little path that leads to a very important grave.

So it's quite a long walk to the grave but I can see an American flag flying so that seems very appropriate for this American icon. Turns out that was just the resting place of the Smoky Bear Hot Air Balloon. I guess this is the build up to the real bear. And as I walk on, I see it. Yeah this has got to be a smoky bear and there's a carving out of wood of smoky, little smoky bear clinging to a tree. This is the resting place of the first living smoky bear. In 1950, when smoky was a tiny cup wildfire burned his forest home. After 25 years, he was replaced by another orphaned black bear. Oh, he's replaced. Let's replace him with another bear.

Smoky bear replaced, as we all are at some point I suppose, and here's his final resting place. While he was alive, they tried to get Smokey to procreate with another bear, Goldy bear, but no dice. Maybe he was still too traumatised from the fire. Instead they gave Smokey an orphan cup, a fake son, and that ended up being the next Smokey. And so it goes on. Smokey Bear, the perfect American commercial, the longest running PSA birth from World War II, the bear that outlived Billy the Kid and became known to hundreds of millions of people

all over America, all over the planet. A cartoon who came to life to remind Americans that fire can be very bad and we, like Smokey, should try and avoid being burnt to death or burning anything else to death for that matter. Any parting words to the world about Smokey Bear, any other fun facts, messages you'd like to get out there into the world? Just come to Capitan, New Mexico and visit the park and you can pay your respects to Smokey at his burial site. I love those two because they genuinely were so pumped about the bear.

Yeah. And they loved it. It's very sweet. It is a sweet story and there are lots of surprises in there. Like the fact they tried to breed him and but he wasn't having it, didn't care. I like that. He's like, I don't consent. Don't force me. Don't force me.

Don't force me to marry Goldie Bear. That's not the bear for me. He didn't want an arranged marriage. He didn't care about his legacy enough. Didn't care about the legacy at all. No ego. No ego. Also, I do the imagery just from a graphic perspective,

the imagery of Smokey changes so much. I mean, maybe that's where bear culture came from in the gay world because he's in ripped tight jeans. He's got a bulge. Wait, do you think Smoky is the... I think he might be the origin of that particular part of gay culture. Because he's got his big bear chest or whoever designed that version of Smoky was definitely referencing gay culture because he's clearly just a ripped gay bear.

It's kind of amazing. And in other places, he looks more meek. In other places, he's more of a cartoon character. The imagery is just so specific and fascinating to me. Wow. Plus, he was a real bear that you can go and visit his gravesite. That I will say, I also didn't know. I thought he was sort of just a character.

He was a little bear. He was a little guy. Yeah, a little burnt little paws. Mum left him behind. Wow, what an American story. Has his own zip code. I love that for him. This was really fun.

It was kind of heavy on the death. Lot of death. But I mean, that's the thing, right? That's part of life. That's part of life and also fire. That's why we need to watch out for fire. As an American, watch out when you're lighting those fires out there in the forest.

Yeah. Um, but you know, I left a candle on recently. That's the thing I have a phobia of leaving the house. Yes, me too. Is the candle thing. And then when it came true, that does not help. How many candles do you burn in your house? So what do you have a few going at once?

No, I normally just do one, sometimes two, depending on if I've made a chicken or a bolognese and the whole house. The end, it smells like food. Do you have a scented candle or do you burn some sort of oil or something? No, I'd have candles. I don't do oils or incense.

What flavor? Oh, I have so many kinds. I love candles. I love a nice candle. That's a good present for a Monica the Padman. It is. Well, this is fun. Thank you for teaching us about smoky bear. Yeah, of course.

If you're ever in New Mexico, look up the Smoky Museum. It's a really cute town. The ranges there are so kind and they're so lovely, and they're just there to educate you about smokyy but also just educating you about bears in the wild and how we need to protect them. So big fan. All right. Well, like two or 3% more American. Thank you.

I think you too. I think we both became more American in understanding smokey. Smokey bear. Smokey bear. Never smokey that bear. Okay. Bye. Bye. never smokey that beer. Bye!