Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Flightless Bird: Soft Drinks

Episode Date: December 13, 2022

In this week’s Flightless Bird, David Farrier sets out to understand the vast array of soft drinks on offer in the United States of America. He ends up stumbling into Waco, Texas - home of Dr. Pepper - where he attempts to solve the riddle of what the heck Dr. Pepper tastes like. Along the way, he discovers Big Red and the chaotic history of bottled soda water. He visits the Dr. Pepper Museum where he meets the Dr. Pepper-obsessed Joy Summer-Smith, associate director of the Dr. Pepper Museum. Before he leaves Waco, David hears some ghost stories and attempts to come to terms with the fact he’s very far away from New Zealand’s unique soft drink, L&P Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

So before we jump into this episode, we want to address something really quick from last week, leaf blowers. So in that episode, if you listen to it, I critique David for his baby ears, basically. up as a point of look at minority groups such as autism where it can really affect them this noise and then we come out of that doc and i say okay this brings up a greater question about how much does society bend towards people who are sensitive and the order of the telling of this story has that come out right after the doc about autism. And so it sounds like I'm saying that in reaction to autism, and I'm not. I'm saying it in reaction to this overall episode and mainly David. Yeah, I've been abusing Monica for a long time about leaf blowers. I'm

just always, whenever there's a leaf blower outside my building, I send her a video of it. I go on and on and on about it. It's very disturbed. And I end up being this little pesty person who is like moaning about leaf blowers all the time. I think you were sort of moaning about me and things got conflated. Moowing is such a horrible word. It is. We start the doc off with you complaining that you can't get your work done because of the leaf blowing sound. And my thought on that is, should there be a removal of leaf blowers because David works from home?

Like, are we bending society to this person who has a job that works from home? You know, it just that's a greater question. And I wanted to bring that up. But in the way that it was edited, it sounds like I'm talking very specifically about a group of people that I do think we need to protect anytime we can. And I think everyone should be protecting everyone. I think if you went outside and said, can we please just for 30 seconds, because I know it's so annoying. I'm so sorry.

But for 30 seconds, can we stop? And then you go in, do your thing, come out, say thank you so much. I kind of feel that the people that leave blow around my house, if I said I'm just desperate, you need to recall this for two minutes. Can you please turn off for two minutes? They kind of would. Of course they would, because they're all very nice. They're all very kind people. so that's that i just wanted to clear that up because normally i don't at all look at the comments but david made it abundantly clear that a lot of people took that offensively and i understand and i'm i'm sorry and that's not was

not my intention and of course I want everyone to be protected. And thanks for everyone sending me countless videos of leaf blowers in your neighborhood. They're very funny. And I've got some really, really good video now. And I love that. And you're going to piece it together and drive me crazy. Okay, on to the show. I'm David Farrier, a New Zealander accidentally marooned in America.

And I want to figure out what makes this country tick. Now one thing that's a constant source of awe and wonder for me is the variety on offer here in America. Your supermarkets are so vast I still find them disorientating. The cereal section alone is as big as the biggest entire supermarket back in New Zealand, and the frozen food section is full of wonders I never knew existed. I get lost constantly, and a five-minute trip to get some bananas suddenly turns into a two-hour ordeal. But there's one main thing I'm confronted with on a daily basis that's the major source of my enchantment. America's giant assortment of carbonated beverages. I'd never heard of drinks like Shasta before I came to America, but brands like this were innovators in the industry, one of the first to package soft

drinks in cans and make diet versions of their sugary delights. The truth is, I'd never heard of many of your carbonated soft drinks. Bang Energy, Sierra Mist, Dr. Pepper, what the hell are these things? I crunched the numbers, and your top 10 sodas are as follows, from number 1 to 10. Coke, Pepsi, Diet Coke, Mountain Dew, Sprite, Dr. Pepper, Diet Pepsi, Coke Zero, Ceramist, and then finally 7up at number 10. Sugary sodas aren't as popular as they were in the peak of the 2000s. Sports drinks and coffee are on the rise, Coke is on the drop. Still, a majority of Americans consume at least one sugary carbonated drink a day,

despite knowing that sugar isn't the greatest thing to consume. But I love sugar, so I wanted to explore the world of sugar in a can. So, chill that icy beverage and get ready to crack that can and prepare for that sugary rush, because this is the Soft Drinks episode. Had you heard of Shasta? Yeah. That was all new to me. Have you had it before? Is it something you drink?

I'm sure I've had it. Right. It's not sticking out. Is it an orange or is it a lemon lime? No idea. Okay. They were like big innovators, though. They were the first to have like a diet version.

Oh. Kind of fascinating. But yeah, I've never had it. Whenever I go, is it the 7-Eleven is your store? Sure. 7-Eleven. I walk in there sometimes and it's just that wall of soft drinks. Yeah.

I find it inspiring. I mean, I love a sugary treat. Well, I was about to say, I'm surprised you aren't all up in that section, buying everything, trying everything. I have to be careful not to. I've already put on a bit of weight in America. I can't be having sugary drinks all the time because then it's game over. I also haven't found a dentist in America yet.

I don't know how my teeth are doing and soft drinks are allegedly quite bad for the teeth. Yeah. Did you do that experiment at school where you'd pop a tooth in a thing of Coke and come back to it? And it would disintegrate? Two months later? No. Yeah, horrific.

No. Yeah, it's bad. Okay, but you're not brushing in there. There's no brushing. No, but I mean, it is rare. I mean, it's very acidic. It's bad news. What I found very funny is that in New Zealand,

as a kid, you're sort of taught and advertised that juice was a really healthy thing. Yes. Of course, one of the worst things you can be drinking as well. Sort of, it's like they got a free pass because it's from an orange, you know, whereas Coke was the big bad. They're both awful. Yeah, that's really true.

But life hack, if you have a chalkboard and… This is really niche. This is the chalkboard out there. we've gone back to the 50s i used to work at the amish i was not working at the worth the amish making those tasty donuts i wish if i had a donut recipe from the amish i would love that anyway i used to work at ucb upright citizens brigade and we would have a chalkboard and you'd write the day's shows. And the next day you erase it and it's still there. Like, it's really hard to get a chalkboard very, very, very clean. I just got a little shiver from thinking about scratching a chalkboard.

Yeah. Yeah. But you're trying to clean it. It's just a cloud of white, isn't it? Exactly. Like you can do everything right, but there's still a little bit of something. But if you pour a little Coke on your favorite towel, it's perfect. It cuts straight through.

It's brand new. Beautiful, clean chalkboard. It's a hack. Yeah. And it's scary because you do see what it does. Yeah, it cuts through. Really cuts through. What's your favorite soft drink? What do you have if it's a hot day? Yeah. What are you drinking? It would be Coke. What type? Regular. I'm not a Diet Coke person or a Coke Zero or a cherry. Although I did have a cherry recently and it was tasty. Coke Zero or a cherry.

Although I did have a cherry recently and it was tasty. It's a wonderful taste, isn't it, Coke? It's universal. It is. And I'm from Atlanta, so I have an allegiance to Coke. You have to. You can't be Pepsi. They're smart as well.

They did a thing in New Zealand with their branding where a new dairy would open. Do you have the word dairy here? Dairy is like a corner store, like a 7-Eleven. Okay. Family would have just opened one and they didn't have any cool signs. Coke would come in and be like, we will give you sexy signage for your entire dairy, the whole store.

Beautiful woman and men showering each other in Coke and everything, really sexy advertising. And of course it'd be like, yeah, we want to like spruce this place up. Yeah. Instantly Coke branded everywhere. They're so smart with their advertising. Oh, I also think they have some of the best commercials ever.

The polar bears? Polar bears. It's so nostalgic. I love it so much. And if you get Coke with the little tiny ice, like at a baseball game when they have those little ice, it's the best drink. But I don't drink soda really what are you drinking how are

you hydrating i'm dehydrated i've told you so many times i'm dehydrated what are you drinking i drink wine um no i'm drinking tea you're drinking wine right now yeah no i'm not i'm this is tea okay this is english breakfast tea that i made from a kettle that you forced me to buy. That's another episode. Yeah. So tea, water, I try. And then wine. Like truly, those are the beverages that I drink.

When I started cheerleading in high school, there was a rule you couldn't drink soda. Just wanted to keep you all rake then. I mean. That was a rule? No soda? Yeah. I think it was like be healthy and you're not allowed to drink soda it's incredible and it changed like i never since then i've never like

craved soda i went off coke for a while and it's amazing when you go back to it how intense it is it's so sugary and insane you get into what people call it in different regions? Coke? Soda pop. Soda pop, coke. Oh no, I don't touch on that in the doc. Some people call all soda coke in the south. I'm going to go get a coke and they're getting

like Mountain Dew. Oh, that is mind-blowing and I love it. So that's how it's sort of become like Google. I'm going to Google something. I'm going to go and get a Coke. I could come back with a Sprite. I call it Pop.

Pop? Yeah, I would never call it Pop. Never, never. That's so funny. I think it's Midwestern to call it Pop. So, Rob, you'll be like, I'm off to get some Pop. Well, I don't drink it either. But that's what you'd say. I'd say Pop, yeah.

In New Zealand, we go by a brand name I'm off to get a Coke or a Mountain Dew Our local soft drink is called L&P The letters, which stands for lemon and Pairoa And what? Pairoa It's a place, so it's named after

the town, so when you drive through Pairoa you just see this beautiful giant bottle of L&P, and if you're ever in New Zealandaland it's great there was controversy they made it into a chocolate you know when there's like a popular flavor they'll always try and bake it into a chocolate i don't know if that stuck around for long but it's a great drink if you're ever in new zealand a meat pie and an allen pea are the two sort of local delicacies which i'd recommend okay and is that more like a Sprite? It sounds like it's like lemon limey.

It's more, it is. I'd liken it to a Sprite. No one's quite sure what the flavor is, but it's delicious. Refreshing. Do you like cream soda or root beer? I love cream soda. Okay. So yeah, I do as well.

And in the barbecue episode, I crack into a bit of that because with some meaty meat cream soda's good we don't really have a lot of that New Zealand and I do like it it's kind of appropriate for this episode because I wanted to get out of Los Angeles because obviously drinks soft drinks in America differ so much place to place so I actually went to Texas and I started just by talking to people about what soft drinks they liked because I was curious if it would differ to like an LA taste or a New York taste or something like that. Also real quick just the word soft drink is kind of interesting. Soft. Yeah why is it called that? Is it because hard drinks have alcohol?

That's a really good explanation. I don't know anything better than that. Yeah, I'm up for a hard drink. No, I'm up for a soft drink. I'm a straight edge. Yeah, it's to distinguish flavored drinks from hard liquor or distilled spirits. Nailed it. I had no idea. This is what the people in Texas, I talked to some people around Waco because I was there for another story, different thing, is what they had to say.

I've noticed that you have a lot of soft drinks here in America, so many different kinds and flavors. So it's a hot day, you're exhausted, you really just need some liquid. What's your favorite? I don't know if this qualifies as a soft drink, but the Topo Chico with lime, that's my favorite for a hot day. And just to keep alive during my work week will be Diet Coke or Coke Zero. Do you have any strong thoughts on Dr. Pepper, which I hear is big in Texas?

I hate it. What's your beef with Dr. Pepper? It has a licorice taste. Another American thing that I should like but I don't is licorice. Do you have a favorite American soft drink? I would have to say Dr. Pepper. That's from here, Texas. Yes, sir. What is the flavor of Dr. Pepper? There's 23 of them. There's 23 ingredients, I guess, that go in 23 different flavors that whoever, an old man that made it back in the 1800s put in there. And it is a pretty popular drink around these parts.

It is. It is in Texas. I've heard Big Red is also a big thing. Big Red's a big Texas thing. She likes Big Red or Sprite. I like Dr. Pepper. I'm going to turn to you now. What is Big Red and why do you like it?

It's a mixture of like a really sweet strawberry and then a flavor you never knew was invented. It's almost like battery acid. It's a strange taste, but it's really good. I really loved how passionate people got. Everyone I talked to, they really backed their drink, even if they knew it was kind of hideous. Yes, because it's nostalgic, too. It takes you somewhere. Okay, I'm remembering there's Soda Wars,

Coke versus Pepsi, Dr. Pepper versus- Big Red. Well, for me, it was Dr. Pepper versus Mr. Pibb. Oh, right. Those two were like in competition. Huh. I actually talked to that couple. I just discovered another sort of Texan thing,

which is, I think they call it a river float. And I'd gotten a big tube tubing. Yeah. I did it sort of at the wrong time of the year. So there was no one I was going to float down the river and talk to people. It was just me for about three hours because it was off season. So there was no one to interview. So the episode would just be like the sounds of a river and some ducks I met along the way. But at the end, I met this one couple and I was like, oh my God, life, this is great. But we just ended up talking about soft drinks. Okay. But tubing's, have you been tubing?

Yes, that's where I almost died and drowned. Please share. You haven't heard this story? I haven't listened to armchair. Oh yeah, that's right. I can't listen to every episode of everything. I try. We went to Austin

for Formula One last year and Dax really wanted to go tubing. That's like one of his favorite things. And he's already been. So he like,

quote, knew the lay of the land and we went with Danny Ricardo and 12 of his most beautiful male friends I've ever seen.

And you're all in tubes. We're all in bathing suits and tubes and it's sexy. And then... That's what I wanted. It was just me alone on a river. With a bunch of racers. Literally, it was like, oh my God, wow. But so you're trying to be cool in your tube.

Of course. And we get to this one part where there's a little bit of a drop off and i was like i don't want to do that and dax was like no no i know this i've done this before it's super tiny it's just a little like little dip and i was like okay great so him and delta are ahead and all of a sudden we hear her screaming oh no yes and then kristen's like panicked she's trying to get to delta. She's so strong. I don't know how she did this. She like went against the current and was

able to like get across. It's those superpowers you get when some sort of mom power comes in. Exactly. The other thing is we're all kind of tied up a little bit. They'll string you up. Yes. And Molly and me and Molly's kid, we were all kind of together

and we were getting pulled into this thing. And I was like, oh, my God. It was like this crazy rapid. And we don't know if I can swim. So I was like, oh, my God. I don't want to do that. We got to get out of here. And we're like trying to get and I just get pulled down this rapid

off the tube immediately. Drowning. You were toast. I was drowning. Yeah. Oh off the tube immediately. Drowning. You were toast. I was drowning. Yeah. Oh, no, Monica. It was awful. It was really.

It was very scary. But then I was able to, like, get on, like, a rock, like a mermaid. And I came up. My boob was out. Wow. Yeah, because you've been tumbled around under there. All these race car drivers sat there. Thank God they were behind. So they didn't, well

they say, they didn't see that. But Danny's really nice so there's a good chance he did see and is just being extremely polite. So Booba's out and I have to like. You're on a rock. You're clambering on a rock. Exactly. And then I just said I didn't like that.

That was the first thing that came out of my mouth. I didn't like that. It's really scary. I was very scared. I also think I went at such the wrong time of the year. The water level was very low. So most of my experience was sort of my ass scraping on the bottom, trying to like get us stuck quite a few times.

The speed, very slow. Hours. It was awful, actually. I didn't know if I was going to ever times. The speed, very slow. Hours. It was awful, actually. I didn't know if I was going to ever end. It was just so slow. And I went on to Google Maps because I had the return point we were getting to. And I was like, oh, my God, there's another 40 bends,

each bend taking about 20 minutes. It was horrific. Oh, my God. How long were you doing it? I actually got up at one point and just walked down the river. See, yeah. Yeah. It might have been more fun if you had a buddy and then also some drinks. I thought I was going to meet babes on the river.

You did? No, I thought I was going to. I met one cow and there was a car that had crashed off the road that was in the river like 20 years old. You couldn't see me without my top. Wrong time of the year. Wrong time. Everything about the timing was wrong.

Yeah, wow. What would you have done if you saw a person drowning? Would you help? I'd rescue. Or only an animal? Oh, yeah. If there was a drowning rattlesnake and a tiny baby, I'd rescue the snake and let the baby die.

If both were drowning, which one would you save? There's an African grey parrot drowning. Oh, fuck. My favorite parrot. And a financial broker. A financial broker. It's really, really tough. Because for one thing, chances are an African grey has a longer lifespan than the financial broker.

They live about 80 years. So there's a lifespan to consider. Very smart. They're consider very smart they're very smart bird sounds like you're going for the parrot do we need the broker the broker might be fine you know see this is my fear i'd rescue the broker you would but i wouldn't be happy about you're good at swimming right i can swim i'd rescue both okay only one can be saved in this scenario i'd get the broker i know you would would hurt your heart, but you would do it. Poor drowned bird.

Well, also, why would it drown? It can fly. It can fly. It's tangled up in a net. It's tangled in a net, Monica. That is sad. That's sad. Because a human probably put that net there.

The financial broker was trying to catch it. Oh, my. This scenario has gotten out of hand. It would have made the trip a lot more interesting than six hours on a river on my own. Was it really six hours? It was. I'm exaggerating. It was just under four hours.

It was like three hours, 45. I mean, it was getting dark. I was like, if it gets dark, I'm just on this river in Texas. I don't know. It felt bad. I just had like togs on. What do you call them here? Bathers? Trunks in Texas. I don't know. It felt bad. I just had like togs on. What do you call them here? Bathers?

Trunks or something? I don't know what you call them. I was just nothing. I had no towel. Were you in a speedo? No, I was just in like... Bathing suit. Bathing suit.

But I didn't wear dark. They were like... Yeah. I don't know. It felt bad. I don't like that. It felt bad. Yeah.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry that happened to you. We both had bad experiences in tubes We have Very different bad experiences Yours were more thrilling than mine Yeah, sounds like it Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird

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Terms apply. So I was in Texas. Yeah. I wanted to learn about soft drinks. Okay. This was my journey. I'd originally come to Texas to explore barbecue culture. That's a future episode of Flightless Bird.

But that's how I found myself hanging out with Daniel Vaughan, who's the official barbecue reviewer for Texas Monthly. Dan reckons he's eaten at around 1,800 different barbecue joints. Anyway, as we waited for a giant piece of brisket to arrive, he started going on not about his love of meat, but his love of Dr. Pepper. I've written in a whole article about my love of Dr. Pepper. When I was growing up as a kid, we didn't have a lot of money. But come Christmas time, because there were a lot of them and it looked like it was bountiful,

my mom would buy each of us a 24-pack of pop. In Ohio, we call it pop. And so my brother would get Mountain Dew, my sister Sprite, and I got Dr. Pepper. Drinking a warm Dr. Pepper in the morning, like right out from under the tree, good memory. My whole time in Texas, I'd kept running into people who loved this mysterious drink. Then I heard about a museum dedicated to the mysterious drink, located in Waco, Texas. In my mind, all I could think about was one thing when it came to Waco. The cult actually called or known as the Branch Davidians is an offshoot of the Seventh Day Adventist Church.

How many gunshots did you hear? It was quite a few. You know, I couldn't really say how many it was, but he knew it was something that wasn't normal. I associate it with the bungled, chaotic FBI raid on the branch Davidian Colts in 1993, which after 53 days left 86 people dead. A quick Google tells me that these days,

Waco is more well-known for Magnolia, something I've never heard of before. It's a giant shopping complex covering two city blocks, owned by Chip and Joanna Gaines from the Fixer Upper TV show. That show got so big it led to the creation of a whole TV network and a shopping centre that transformed the whole of Waco. Our attendance numbers tripled when they opened in 2016. I'm with Joy Summer-Smith, Associate Director of the Dr. Pepper

Museum. I've driven to Waco, about a two-hour drive out of Austin. Right now she's pointing to these two silos in the distance which marks the Magnolia Complex. And apparently Americans really love renovating and flipping houses because people flood here to visit Magnolia. And that's been good for the Dr. Pepper Museum, a stone's throw away, which has seen its attendance triple to about 170,000 visitors a year. The first thing I'm sort of curious about is how long you've been with Dr. Pepper for,

or probably the company that owns Dr. Pepper, who I assume is Coca-Cola, but I'm not sure. No, it's not. I've already messed up. So Dr. Pepper is currently owned here in the United States by Keurig Dr. Pepper. The K-Cup, the Keurig machine, all the coffee. I don't know what any of those things are. Okay.

Well, it all revolves around coffee. Keurig bought out Dr. Pepper in 2018. So it's been a succession of companies for the brand leading up to that moment. So now the portfolio is Dr. Pepper, 7-Up, Snapple, Mott's. What's Snapple? Is that the apple one? It's a juice. So yes, there's an apple. At the moment, we're standing in a room in the museum surrounded by bottles. They're old glass soda bottles. And I should clarify, the Dr. Pepper Museum is big. This isn't the pokey little museum I was imagining it would be. It's a proper museum with fancy cabinets and exhibits. There are two

different sprawling buildings, a gift store and a giant Dr. Pepper logo and fluoro lights outside. There's a diner you can sit in and drink Dr. Pepper and a replica of an old American gas store that's playing a radio show broadcast out of Dallas in 36. I'd assumed it was going to be pokey because this place isn't run by Dr. Pepper. It's a completely separate entity. So I actually work for a separate private non-profit, the Dr. Pepper Museum. We're not owned or operated by Keurig Dr. Pepper, although we have plenty of partnerships in place. So I have been here at the Dr. Pepper Museum for 20 years now. I started in the archives and can give the long-winded answers to any kind of question about Dr. Pepper history. So now I am the associate director here for the museum.

So I'm trying to get my head around this because having a not-for-profit around this big corporation seems slightly unusual. You'd assume the Dr. Pepper Museum is run very stringently by Dr. Pepper, right? No, we are independent, which allows us a lot of flexibility to really dive into their story and tell it in some interesting ways. So we are located in the historic building, the home of Dr. Pepper. I thought this beautiful brick building we're in was a replica, but it's the original, listed on the National Register of Historic Sites so no one can come in and bowl it over. It was built in 1906 purely for the purpose of bottling Dr. Pepper, whatever the hell Dr. Pepper is. What is the flavor of Dr. Pepper? Is it a cherry? What is going on? What is the flavor? It's not pepper. Or is it pepper? The flavor of Dr. Pepper is a company secret. All they will say

is that it's 23 different flavors. Okay, 23. And that it's not prune juice. Okay, so not prunes, but it's 23 different flavors. Do you know what those are? I do not. There are only about five to six people at the company that actually know the entirety of the recipe at one point in time. I demanded their names and home addresses, but Joy refused to give them to me.

It's a tightly held Texan secret, and many have tried to crack it. You'll find a lot of what we call store brands that will have their own version. Coca-Cola tried doing it through Mr. Pibb or Pibb Extra. However, it's one of those where if I go into a restaurant and I ask for Dr. Pepper and they say, oh, well, we have Mr. Pim. I'm like, OK, thank you. I'll take water. It was at this point I realized the woman in front of me really loves Dr. Pepper. I mean, you've been doing this for two decades now, working at the Dr. Pepper Museum.

Is it the history of it or are you obsessed with Dr. Pepper specifically? I hadn't intended that as a funny question, but I'm glad I brightened your day. Okay, so one point of clarification is I do love Dr. Pepper and I did drink and love it before I started working here. My job here, every day is kind of a different day. There's new projects, there's new things to think about. I think... If this was a Coke museum, would you still be as passionate? Or is it... I wouldn't have applied to work at the Coke museum.

Good answer. Dr. Pepper. If you missed that, she said she would never have applied to work at a Coke museum. So yeah, I guess she just really, really likes Dr. Pepper. I drink Dr. Pepper, don't you see? Because it's the perfect taste for me. Now, of course, there would be no Dr Dr Pepper. Now of course there would be no Dr Pepper or Mr Pibbs or any sodas without humans discovering how to carbonate water. It happens naturally in springs around the world, which is where humans got their taste for the fizzy goodness. There was also this idea that

mineral water had healing powers. Back around 400 BC, Hippocrates reckoned it could cure disease. That idea sort of stuck. So in the early days of artificially carbonated water, people thought it was super healthy. People really and truly did think that there was a lot of healing properties to it. As we've grown in our ability to understand the human body and chemistry. We know that that wasn't really the case, but I think there's still something intriguing from that water being found bubbling up out of the ground, and so they were trying to replicate it.

The thought that if we can replicate it, we can expand the health benefits for more and more people. Jacob Schweppes was the first to make it big in the game, the German-Swiss watchmaker founding Schweppes about 240 years ago. An early adopter, Charles Darwin's grandfather, Erasmus Darwin. No other mixer has Schweppes' bittersweet flavor and rare effervescence. Effervescence? You used to call those little bubbles Schweppes' effervescence. Schweppes' effervescence, of course. Joseph Priestley was the one who'd invented artificial carbonated water 16 years earlier, by accident in his beer brewery. He literally wrote the book on soda, a book that has the best and longest title of all time.

Directions for impregnating water with fixed air in order to communicate the peculiar spirit and virtues of paramount water and other minerals of a similar nature. Rolls straight off the tongue. Looking around the museum, there are old bottles everywhere. All glass, different shapes, some with more curves than others. A big trick back then was keeping the bubbles in. They started with corks before eventually inventing bottle caps. And after those companies figured out how to carbonate water, they flavored it. So that comes in in the early 1800s. It was probably happening in Europe, but we Americans kind of take credit for that.

And the flavors that they had were, there's a lot that you can't find today. The flavors that they had were, there's a lot that you can't find today. A lot of cooking happened in the 1800s with blossoms, orange blossom, rose, all of those kinds of things were found as flavors. One that was even bottled here in this building in the late 1800s was one flavored with celery. But others, coffee, tea, walnut, almond. Celery and walnut soda. Yum. The takeaway is there were a lot of flavours floating around. And in 1885, a man named Charles chose 23 of them,

threw them all together, and Dr Pepper was born. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Flightless Bird is brought to you by Aura Frames. I find a nightmarish thing at Christmas, finding gifts for people. Aura Frames kind of solves this for me because you get this digital photo frame. You can fill it up with whatever photos you want from your relationship or friendship with a person. And you can give them that frame and they're going to love it. It feels so personalized and those are the best gifts.

And they're going to love it. It feels so personalized. And those are the best gifts. But Aura Frames, it makes me a little resentful because of our history where you gave Rob an Aura Frame full of beautiful pictures of the two of you. And let me sit and watch while this happens. Well, look, Christmas is coming up, Monica. Okay? Christmas is coming up. That's all I'm going to say about that.

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$30 off Aura's best-selling frames. Just go to auraframes.com slash bird. That's A-U-R-A frames dot com slash bird. These frames have been selling out every December, so get yours now before they're all gone. Terms and conditions apply. Okay, I'm so triggered by this secret recipe. I want to know so bad. I didn't care until you brought this up, but now I'm dying to only five or six people. It's really frustrating. And, you know, she's been in this game for, you know, 20 years working there.

She doesn't know. Or, I mean, she didn't tell me if she did know. She doesn't know. But it's the secret. And I guess no one's been able to replicate it, right? Like Dr. Pepper is Dr. Pepper. It's like we don't know the recipe for Coke, I guess. Or do we?

I don't know the recipe for Coke, I guess. Or do we? I don't. But it's great having this backstory where it's a mystery. Because also the people I talk to next to the river and stuff, everyone knows it's 23 flavors. It's such a good marketing kind of a message. It is. It hooks you. It hooked me. It's like your lump.

Everyone loves a mystery. It's a hook. You'll never know what the lump was, where it was, where it's gone to Mysteries are good Can you just tell me where the lump was? It's private David! It's too many mysteries for me

The flavors of Dr. Pepper Oh my god Do you have any thoughts or queries about Dr. Pepper thus far? Yes Has it evoked any emotions? I wrote some stuff down Mainly that humans are very cute. That we have these allegiances and they're all based in nostalgia and we think they're

objective and they're not. At all. Like at all. No. And it's very cute that we do that, that we latch onto a thing. We love it so much. We're very loyal. It had slightly Disney adult vibes. She was so into Dr. Pepper. Working there. She would never apply to a Coke museum. No. 20 years.

That's a lot of time to dedicate to a product. It reminds me of the big debate within the U.S. of Twizzler versus Red Vine. What? That's a huge American debate. What's Twizzler? Is that the one that's like a Tootsie Roll? No, that's a Tootsie Roll. Twizzlers and Red Vines are both licorice sticks.

Oh, they're the strawberry licky stick. Exactly. Exactly. And regionally, it makes a big difference. Are you a Red Vine person or are you a Twizzler person? And do they taste quite different? Yes. Okay.

People have insanely strong opinions. I am a Twizzler person. Yeah. And I hate red vines. I think I've had a red vine maybe at the movies. Yep. And it was very chewy and like hard to get through or not chewy just thick like it was like i sort of bit into it and it was like oh i know what's happening are you a red vine i don't really eat either you don't love i don't love either they're similar though they're both

licorice i know but they taste so different to me so i like twizzizzlers Pull & Peels. Yeah. What's a Pull & Peel? Just a type of Twizzler. Sounds like a sex thing. So licorice here in America, I was curious about this. So is your licorice all strawberry flavor? There's black licorice too, but that's its own thing. Because in New Zealand, we're very proud of black licorice.

Black lickey. I mean, I hate it. I mean, it's a specific aniseed-y taste. Exactly. But it's great. We Licky. I mean, I hate it. I mean, it's a specific and a seedy taste. But it's great. We have the creamiest, most delicious licorice. Creamy? I hoover it down. When I go back to New Zealand, because spoiler alert, I'm allowed to go back to New Zealand now.

And I'm going to go back for a little visit soon. It's flightless bird. It isn't flightless anymore, etc. Blah, blah, blah. I'm going to eat a lot of licorice. Okay. I thought maybe you were going to say, I'm i'm gonna eat a lot of licorice okay i thought maybe you're gonna say i'm gonna bring you guys back some liquor oh and i will bring all of you back so much licorice and can you just make sure you bring enough for all three of us because

absolutely okay i'm bringing a lot back i'm gonna bring an extra suitcase back with me from new zealand it's gonna be full of good stuff and And LMPs. But not that orange candy. No, that chocolate. You don't like that chocolate from New Zealand. I like the chocolate. The chocolate's good. The other weird thing was not. Listen, you gave Rob some presents today at the beginning of this day.

I did. And I'd like to say as well, I wasn't even going to bring that up on the podcast because this was just an act of love and joy. It was very nice. It was between two men and it was beautiful. I gave Robert an electronic photo frame filled with photos of us together. I know, which is so nice. A Dr. Pepper pencil from the Dr. Pepper Museum.

Exactly. And a Dr. Pepper sticker from the Dr. Pepper Museum. Do you want to share the pencil? Three presents. No, because it wasn't for me. It's the same thing as the pins. You're wearing your pin today, Monica. It's beautiful.

You're a beautiful blue horse yeah um from the uh the airport if i'll be honest i dropped it and then it was here and so but i put it on because i love it often things i do bring in here for you guys i will see a month later sitting on that table and amongst all the other shit that you get i'm wearing it delta really wants that bear, and Dax has told her no. Are you serious? That's from David, and Dax stays here. Oh, that's so cool. That's really nice.

He's trying to teach her a lesson, like you can't have everything you want. I feel a bit sorry for Delta, because there's a kid's bear. You can add it to your suitcase. Anyway, I feel like you've built yourself up as a person in this foursome of we're all trying to get your love so badly. Just dish it out in little annoying increments for a while. It is. It's starting to make me feel manic or something.

So what you're saying is if I come back from New Zealand with stuff, it needs to be like you're getting presents for the kids at Christmas and it all needs to sort of be the same. Different, but the same. Yeah, and then maybe you give me like a couple extra. I don't know how I feel about that. Rob! I'm going to figure this out. Okay.

I think before a war breaks out, we need to learn more about soft drinks. And if you remember where we left it, we were talking about you used to think that carbonated water was somehow healthy because it was associated with mineral water. So there was this idea in society in America that the opposite to what we think now of Coke, which is just horrific and unhealthy, but sodas were generally seen as a healthy treat.

All right, back into the doc. When Dr. Pepper was invented 137 years ago, it was sold in pharmacies because sodas were thought of as healthy. Pharmacies and soda fountains got intertwined very early on because of that healthy thought of carbonated water. And maybe it's also along the line idea of Mary Poppins and a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down. I don't know. I don't know. But it's something that kind of rolls around in my head as I do think about that connection between pharmacies and soda fountains. Joy's led me into another part of the museum, which has a replica of a pharmacy from the 1880s.

It's a lot prettier than a CVS. And pride and centre of the pharmacy, right when you walk in, is the soda fountain. It was a big feature and it was right there up front when you walked in the front door. It wasn't buried at the back of the store. It turns out we owe the old American pharmacy for Dr Pepper. Wade Morrison, the guy who named Dr. Pepper Dr. Pepper, owned a corner drugstore. Yes, he owned the old corner drugstore

and the pharmacist that invented Dr. Pepper is Dr. Charles Alderton. Charles the pharmacist was 28 when he invented the medicinal drink we now know as Dr Pepper. The replica pharmacy I'm standing in right now is also advertising something called Crazy Water, another carbonated Texas treat, apparently. The story behind this water is that there was the local crazy lady who sat next to the well and drank the water and was no longer crazy. Totally normal stuff. Crazy Water has four levels that used to be advertised like this. Level one is miles for kidneys and bowels.

Level two is sleep water that you drink to get to sleep. Level three is strong for your kidneys and bowels. And level four is super thick for stomach and bowels. Super thick. Yuck. So you've tried four? I tried number four. Is it extra fizzy?

I don't understand. The mineral content is very heavy. And so it's very thick. The water, the feel of it in your mouth is very thick. So it's not refreshing. You wouldn't drink it after running a marathon. I would not. Susie says no, and she's training for a marathon.

Susie also works at the Dr. Pepper Museum and has been watching on with amusement. Can you confirm this? Yes, you would not want to drink this afterwards. We wander on, room after room. The old bottling room is still here, all the original bottling equipment hulking and giant at the side. In the corner is the well they used to get their water from. There's glass over the top so we can't fall in. So the first ever Dr Pepper that existed would have come from water from this well? Yes. I look down into the abyss and realize I've never seen a well before outside of Western movies. After they'd haul the water up from the depths of the earth, they'd chill it.

The more chill the water, the more carbon dioxide it can absorb, the bubblier it is. We walk into yet another room with all of Dr. Pepper's old logos and slogans. What's your favorite Dr. Pepper slogan? What will you have on your tombstone? I think the one that I've dealt with during my career here is the drink a bite to eat at 10, 2, and 4. So I don't understand. So there was a study done in the 1920s that noticed that people's blood sugar levels dropped around 10, 30, 2, 30, and 4, 30. And so they ran a little contest at the advertising agency. Earl Racy won it. He developed the slogan, drink a bite to eat at 10, 2 and 4. Drink a bite to eat at 10, 2 and 4 doesn't exactly roll off the tongue, but people liked it. The slogan was used from the 20s all the way through to the 70s,

becoming less popular as humans discovered that sugar wasn't really a great meal. I'd note the old bottles of Dr Pepper, and all soft drinks, were way smaller back then. They're tiny compared to the cans of Monster Energy drink we scull back today. Somewhere along the way, America supersized everything. The small drinks you order at the movies here are the size of an XXL drink in New Zealand. But fans of Dr Pepper would say you need the XXL,

because Dr Pepper is special. They've marketed it for years as something that's out of the ordinary, the unusual, continuing on with the Be A Pepper campaign where it's very distinctive. You are unique because you drink Dr. Pepper. And so I feel like there's still some of that identity

wrapped up in it. And there's a test to find out the true Dr. Pepper fan. Joy gestures to two logos. One is old, the other's new. One has a full stop after the doctor, the other doesn't. In the 1950s, they changed the font for the logo. You can see prior, it's this scripty font. And then in the 1950s, it moves to this more block letter font. So if you take a look at the block letter, and you can imagine a period here. Basically, a change of font meant the full stop and the curl of the R could be confused to be some kind of colon. the R could be confused to be some kind of colon.

Yeah, it would be D-I-semi-colon-pepper. It would be a branding disaster doing that. Branding disaster. So you lose that cursive and suddenly you've got to drop the dot. Yes. On top of this, they also didn't want to be sued if someone thought Dr. Pepper was a real doctor. So dropping the dot also made sense legally. The final stop on my tour, the gift shop.

Joy leaves me to my own devices. She has other work to do besides answering questions from a New Zealander. I ask her sidekick Susie what else I should sample here while I'm in Texas. Beaver nuggets. Yes, try the beaver nuggets. What the fuck are they? Beaver nuggets? I don't know, I haven't had them, but I hear that you should have them. Finally, I'm left alone. Well, I'm left alone in the gift shop with Linda. Linda is 71 and probably the kindest looking woman I've ever laid eyes on. She runs the Dr. Pepper gift store. I tell her I'm making a podcast about American culture.

She seems into it. Apple pie, football, baseball, all those good things. Really, the main reason I wanted to talk to Linda was to see if everyone in this place is brainwashed to love Dr. Pepper. What's your opinion on Dr. Pepper? Are you a fan? I am. I used to drink a lot of it when I was young. All the kids did because it was sweet. All the kids loved Dr. Pepper, not Coke or maybe Big Red too. I've just learned about Big Red. It's another big Texan institution. Yes, it is. Kids love it and I love it too. If it was between Dr. Pepper and Big Red, what would you go for? Probably a Big Red, actually.

Controversial. I know. Shame on me. I felt relieved that I wasn't in some kind of cult. It was time to go, so I switched off my dictaphone. It was a stupid thing to do because the first rule of making a weekly podcast is never stop recording. Not until you're in your car driving away the second i'd hit stop a man came up to me and whispered something in my ear stumbling i turned the recorder back on what no you what we're a certified haunted building location right so as well as being certified as a historic site, apparently this museum is also certified for ghosts.

America's so weird. Haunted with what? Figures. I've had three experiences myself in the two years I've been here. Can't explain them, but could be true. Russ works here too, and he had some stories to tell. Can you talk me through what you saw or felt? Well, the first one was the girls in a mission and I were kind of messing around talking about it. So I went up to the third floor at closing, started shutting my lights off.

And second floor, I shut them off and the wood stairs that goes up, I heard footprints. Old building, creak-a-lake. So I go running down and tell the girls it's not funny. They were not there. They were over here in the gift shop. The second one was the elevator. The one elevator that takes you from the first to the second floor. Again, the emissions, and I were talking that the elevator started up and went to the basement. That's weird. Yeah. The third one was, again, the second floor. Shut my lights down.

They had the old pickup truck out there. And I run around it, and something moved in the back of it. Could have been inflection off the light, but I had the lights off. What sort of shape? Like, what sort of size? It was about a human size, and I don't know, it just moved. Did you make any noises? No, but I made it a little faster to the stairs to get down. It was time for me to make it a little faster out of here too.

I said my goodbyes to Russ and Linda and emerged into the sunlight, glad that I knew more about the history of carbonated water, American pharmacies and American soda, especially the weirdest one, the one that you drink at 10, 2, and 4, Dr. Pepper, the doctor that isn't a real doctor because it's a sugary, carbonated soft drink. I really love that they dropped the dot on the doctor

because legally people worried that it was a real doctor that did. Well, that is funny because that probably correlates to a time when we started upping our suing game. Yeah. Because everyone started to get a little more careful. Yeah, suddenly calling an unhealthy drink, a doctor, anything. Someone could sue you. I had no idea this was going to turn into a ghost story episode.

It really pivoted. But really, I was ready to get out of there, took the phone off, getting out of Waco, and he just idled up to me and started telling me about, yeah, three ghost sightings, all sort of in human shape. Wow. He's often in there after hours and terrifying, you know. But he was a skeptic. He wasn't saying it was definitely a ghost. He was just a man that had seen some shit and wanted to share.

Wow. That took a turn. I found myself in this doc falling into the same trap of allegiance. I was like, why are you doing your doc on Dr. Pepper? Why that drink? Yeah. Like Coke is America. Yeah, you're right. It is American. It's such a big American thing. I think for me, it was the fact that in New Zealand, Coke is everywhere. Clearly it's American, but I see everywhere. Dr. Pepper for me feels American and also unusual New Zealand, Coke is everywhere. Clearly it's American, but I see it everywhere. Dr. Pepper for me feels American and also unusual in that it isn't everywhere.

I get it. So that's why I honed in. I think you're covering your back a little bit because you were in Texas. So that's where the Dr. Pepper. Look, true, I was there. I was there floating down a river for five hours but you know also i want to travel for the show and i thought wow a whole museum is there a coke museum yes in atlanta is the one okay that excuse doesn't work does every soft drink here does every pop have its own museum no only the

ones where they're iconic exactly and to the city itself like coke is a huge atlanta point of pride have you been to the yeah i went to the original coke museum it's been upgraded because this i should say if you're ever in waco it's a the dr pepper museum is beautiful it's vast what i didn't touch on there's a whole diner there built in there where you can get dr. Pepper. You can sit. It's all the original kind of Diana look. Yeah. Multiple buildings. What's the Coke vibe? I haven't been in the new one. New one.

They've upgraded. Yeah, they've revamped it and it's supposed to be really cool. I'd like to know what the Coke Museum people think of Dr. Pepper. Oh, that's a good question. I mean, they're going to be like, Dr. Pepper's whack. Coke is America. But I really enjoyed learning about dr pepper because i don't know a lot about it and now all i want in my whole life is to know the 23 flavors same here

i also got to say at the gift store i bought myself a dr pepper hat and that's something i'm also curious about i'm working on an episode at the moment about that diner that you said you'd always get into fights outside waffle house which is actually turning into like a really beautiful story. But they also have merchandise. What I find really fascinating is that all your iconic labels have merchandise with it as well, which makes sense. But it's not like a basketball team or a sports team. It's a drink, you know, or it's a diner.

And to have a hat and a T-shirt you can buy is kind of incredible. Very American. I have a Waffle House t-shirt you can buy is kind of incredible very american i have a waffle house mug and i've also been on the lookout for like a vintage waffle house shirt i mean that's the thing looking through all the different brand reinventions that dr pepper had gone through you forget about all the iterations of this stuff and why i mean there's a reason certain drinks survive and other ones disappear and it's all about the branding and the message. Now I want something with Dr. Pepper that has the dot.

That would be worth a lot of money. Yeah. I like to think I became slightly more American. You did. Mixing the tubing and the Dr. Pepper and the ghosts. And ghosts. I'm learning a lot. You really are.

America's haunted. A lot of these episodes episodes there's a ghost element increasingly and i'm understanding that there are a lot of ghosts in america i'm sorry monica it's just the truth it's not here there's a reason i'm waking up at three in the morning has that changed i'm still waking up at 3 a.m every day every morning there's a website that claims they know the 23 ingredients. Okay, Rob. What are they? The Daily Meal mega fans of Dr. Pepper believe that it's amaretto, almond, blackberry, black licorice, caramel, carrot, clove, cherry, cola, ginger, juniper, lemon, molasses, nutmeg, What? Clove Cherry Okay Cola Ginger

Juniper Lemon Molasses Nutmeg Orange Prune plum Pepper What?

Oh my god Root beer Pepper Root beer in It That can't be right Rum Raspberry

Tomato And vanilla Tomato? This is just This isn't real This is the list of a lunatic This isn't real That's gotten loose online of a lunatic that's gotten loose online. I love it though. I love the idea

that it probably is. We don't know, Monica. We don't know, Rob. Do you think the ghost of Charles leaked that? Maybe. Maybe. Fuck. Ghosts are everywhere. Ready here first. Wow. Bye, Monica. Bye, Rob. Buy me some presents.