Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Flightless Bird: Spiritualists

Episode Date: April 25, 2023

In this week's Flightless Bird, David Farrier sets out to the “psychic capital of America,” Cassadaga. On the way, he comes across his first Big Tent Revival, so he stops to find out what’s going on. Eventually winding his way to Cassadaga, Farrier encounters a group of Americans who not only believe in life on the other side of death, but the fact that you can communicate with those who have crossed over. David discovers Spiritualism, a religion that once boasted 8 million followers in America - amongst them, a former president! David visits a seance room and comes face to face with a lot of cats - because this sleepy village has also become the unofficial home of hundreds of stray felines. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm David Farrier, a New Zealander accidentally marooned in America, and I want to figure out what makes this country tick. Now if you've been listening along in order and not randomizing Flightless Bird on your playlist, you'll be aware that we've been on a string of episodes based in Florida. The state of Florida is unlike anywhere else I've ever been, and at some point on my trip I found myself pulling into a tiny, unincorporated community called Casadega. For more than 125 years, the quiet community of Casadega has been somewhat of a mystery to many central Floridians. Found between Orlando and Deltona, I'd come here for one reason, and one reason alone.

I'd heard that Casadega has so many psychics and mediums, it's become known as the psychic capital of the world. With that unofficial slogan, it's seeped into pop culture. Bright Eyes had an album called Casadega, and Tom Petty, rest in peace, wrote a song called Casadega. Cassadaga got this way because it's home to a religion called spiritualism, which is basically a religion that says you can communicate with the dead. I see dead people. Fascinated, I knew I needed to visit this town of living people who'd decided they wanted to chat with those who'd stopped living.

So, think of someone on the other side you want to talk to and formulate some good questions for them. Because this is the Spiritualist episode. Flightless, flightless, flightless bird touchdown in America. I'm a flightless bird touchdown in America. You got a bit scared just when you heard Hayley Joel Osment saying, I see dead people. Yeah, that's so creepy. You're not a big horror person. I'm easily affected. Yeah, which maybe does make you a horror person because it's more fun for you.

Yeah, it is fun. But I get scared. Have you ever been to a psychic or a medium? Have you had any of these experiences? No, I'm very scared of that. Okay, you're scared or skeptical? Scared. Oh, I'm scared. Okay.. Okay, you're scared or skeptical? Scared. Oh, I'm scared.

Okay. You've never done a Ouija board? When I was younger, we like tried with one from Target or something. Anything happen? No, I mean, I do think kids moved it. Yeah, right. They're trying to prank. Yeah, messing with you.

But no. So it's not really your thing. It's not my thing either. I'm a huge skeptic. Okay. So my whole thing is like, none of this stuff is real. Right. But I will say when it comes to Ouija boards, I'm scared.

Yeah. I've heard too many stories of people who I trust that have done them. Just how the mood in the room, what it's spelling out, very specific, very personal things about people, that comes with some bad juju. But you don't think that they, even if they don't necessarily know that subconsciously they're moving it. To a certain. Yeah. That's what the logical part of my brain says. Uh-huh.

But I'm just saying for me personally, and it's a catch with me. Yeah. Because it's weird. I would just never do a Ouija board. Right. It's scary to me. But you would would do a site did you do it for this episode no so oh my no i explained sort of why okay we did have the granddaughter of the person who invented the ouija board on the show oh yeah oh have you done any ouija boards rob or something no yeah so we're all a bit scared yeah we are three scaredy cats even though you now believe in ghosts that's partly why i think i've become more scared since this ghost turns

up at 3 a.m every morning i mean i didn't need to set my alarm to feed the hummingbird that i'm looking after for 3 a.m because i just woke up anyway then for the feeding oh my god i don't think i really believe in the validity of the ouija board but i don't i don't want to mess with it same that's kind of how i feel so what what do you that's like a catch me too like you don't believe in the validity but you're scared of it yeah just in case if i'm being honest about it i'm i am scared about it but i'm not like terrified of the ouija board yeah yeah i think there's a sense of i I don't think it's real, but I don't want to know for certain that it is. Like, I don't want to be proven wrong about that. Yeah, totally.

That's why I was so fascinated about Casadega, because I wasn't intending to go there while I was in Florida. But then a couple of months before the trip, I was like, isn't this the sort of psychic capital of the world? And I sort of looked up and it's, oh, it's in Florida. And I just love the idea of this small town that is just full of mediums. I just wanted to go there desperately. So yeah, that's where this episode came from. In the movie Hereditary, which you find very scary, right? Super scary.

And you do too, Rob. I don't think I've seen it all the way through. Oh, okay. Because you're so scared. You're so scared. You were so scared. Yeah, do too, Rob. I don't think I've seen it all the way through. Oh, okay. Because you're so scared. You're so scared. You were so scared. Yeah, so scared. So I actually found that movie fairly laughable.

So explain how you watched it. What was the setting? Okay. We were in Dax's basement. Okay. So it's a proper sort of cinema-ish experience. Yeah. They have a screening room.

Yeah. And it was a proper sort of cinema-ish experience. Yeah, they have a screening room. Yeah. And it was a bunch of us. This is the most surprising thing I've ever heard about you. What? You found it sort of fun and laughable. What about when the head came off? I think in the right setting. In the right setting.

When the child's head popped off. When it's covered in ants that part makes my skin what about the scenes that were so dark and then they'd look into the corner of the room and there'd be someone like sitting in the corner you could just see it was okay look it was scary and like there were pop-outs and stuff i was scared in the moment yeah that's like still lingers with me of okay creepiness and because i believe much more that that could maybe in some way be real you're saying something interesting because hereditary i love hered, but it did this interesting thing where it started quite somber and awful, but it did get quite silly. Right.

By the end, I was like, this is ridiculous. It was just so over the top. And it was awful, but it was also, I get you, it was kind of funny. Yeah. Depends on the setting, though. If you were to watch Hereditary by yourself at home in your apartment. I mean, if I watch Friends by myself in my apartment, there's a chance I could be scared. Okay, so after I was in Casadega, and more recently, I went to New Orleans.

Okay, yes. And I went there for a horror movie festival. Right. There was a secret screening. It was A24's new film. None of us knew they were going to play it. Oh, my God. It's called-

Limited Edition. Talk to Me. It's coming out. I'm taking you all is what I'm saying. I'm scared. It's coming out. I'm taking you all is what I'm saying. I'm scared. It's coming out on July 28th. It's made by two Australian twins. Oh, twins are scary.

It's about, I guess, sort of like a Ouija board-ish concept. Okay. If Hereditary was a 10 on the 10 scale of scary, this is like 100. What? I cannot get it out of my head really it's so intense and where hereditary went very silly at the end talk to me gets more bleak really i can't wait to take you it's got me again more freaked out about communicating with the dead if i had watched talk to me before i'd gone to casadega i think it would have been i don't know if i would

have gone really It's really scary And what does it make you feel About the ghost Now that you've had this experience Are you more scared of the ghost? Yeah I'm not happy about it But my ghost is never It's never felt malicious

It's just been more annoying Right but Because I'm awake Could he turn? Don't say things like that I don't know I don't know him I've never met him I don't know him. I've never met him.

I don't want to meet him. He could get angry at you. Oh, my God. Ooh, that's so scary. I'm already really scared. So do you want to join me on this little audio trip into Casadega? I do. The very first Flightless Bird was an episode about religion,

honing in on America's main religion, Christianity. I love learning about religion because it seems to be at the core of so much of this country. So while I was in Florida, I wanted to dive into one of the smaller, more fringe religions here, which is why I'm off to Casadega to learn about spiritualism. But this is America, so on the drive to Casadega, I was interrupted by Christianity in the form of a giant white tent and a group of people laying out chairs. I'd stumbled onto my first big tent revival. So where are you traveling from?

Indiana. That's my home base. And so how does this work? You travel around the United States, you find somewhere and you set up the tent. find somewhere and you set up the tent? Yes, so I've been traveling for seven years with my wife and five children and then in 2021 we purchased this tent and then two families joined us and before long we had more so now there's 38 of us that travel together. We do two tent revivals a month. I'd pulled off the road and introduced myself to the head pastor Matt Eckert who's setting up for tonight's revival. This year through October, we'll do 18 to 21. To be honest, I didn't know big tent revivals were still a thing here in America.

In the 40s and 50s, they really began to take off. And a friend of mine, her father, his name was Jack Coe, he had the largest tent that had ever been used in America, and it seat 22,000 people. I guess bigent revivals are the fast food of evangelical Christianity, the Waffle House of monotheism. And what's the aim? Because obviously all these different centers have churches in them. What differentiates the tent from the churches that are around? For us, it's the getting the gospel out.

It's the open air effect. So what happens is we'll have a lot of people, even since we've been here, they'll come in off the street. So they're about converting people. And a good way to convert people is to get a good miracle done. Dan tells me they serve up miracles all the time. Yeah, absolutely. We've seen people healed of stage four cancer, confirmed healed. We have seen people that had Parkinson's disease completely healed, that were not talking and able to talk and able to walk.

Look, I've got to say, I'm skeptical. And I was curious about his turn of phrase, the confirmed heal. He says confirmed a lot. And we have confirmed conversions. And what do you mean by confirmed? Like someone checks later or that you see people again after the revival and checking on them? What we'll do then is we have them fill out a form. We make sure that we get them in contact with a local pastor since we're leaving.

We give them discipleship material, a Bible. Filling in a form and giving them a Bible. It's not exactly the scientific method, but hey, each to their own. Any healing so far? This week, I'm not for sure. I haven't talked to anybody with confirmed healings this week. Matt points to a big steel bath by the stage and tells me that's for the baptisms. I leave him to sit up and walk behind the tent where a bunch of RVs are pulled up,

home to the families who travel with Matt on the road. Well, my name's Tom Sawyer, and I don't know about New Zealand, but everybody knows my name here. I knew the name Tom Sawyer, but not this particular Tom Sawyer. This Tom Sawyer has been on the road with Matt, his daughter, and his five grandkids for seven years now. Tom takes me inside to look around his RV. It's lush and it's got a big plush couch. It reminds me of my grandparents' lounge back in New Zealand.

A booth for a little table and kind of like a bench on each side. Have revivals ever gone away, like big tent revivals in America, or have they always been around? They kind of went away for a long time. I don't think completely, probably, but very few. And I think after COVID, it's kind of came back to life. Now, I'm not quite sure how it happened in the RV, but at some point, Tom Sawyer took control of our conversation

and started to preach to me. He was good at this. Have you ever looked at a woman with lust? Yes. Jesus said, if you look at a woman with lust, it's the same as adultery. So it's a big step. It's reality.

But when the preaching turned into a conversion attempt. Unless I can introduce you to Jesus, which I'm trying to do right here. I knew I had to get my lusty butt the heck out of there. Well. With Tom's laugh, I made my exit. I'd watched some of their previous revivals on YouTube, a lot of shouting and people falling over, and I got the idea. I had to get to Casadega. I had a date to keep with some spiritualists. Because yes, I did have a date. Making the spiritualism episode happen was actually quite hard. Let's rewind a few months. I'd done my research and found out that Casadega was home to the Southern Casadega Spiritualist Camp Meeting Association, or SCSCMA. But the thing is, you can't just waltz into the Casadega Spiritualist

Camp like I'd waltzed into the Big Tent Revival. To be able to swing my microphone around doing interviews, I'd have to be vetted by their board of trustees. So now, are you positive that you want to do a podcast about Casadega or are you sort of vetting me as I vet you? This phone call with Cheryl from the spiritualist camp was the result of a lot of emails back and forth. Our process is that we have a public relations committee. This particular call lasted over an hour where she outlined what else I'd have to do to get in. If you can include this in your email to me, two references with contact information. It was a bit like applying for a new apartment or something, but more involved. There's two forms

that I need to fill out. Let's see, so that's just one. I'm just going to close the window. I've got a very loud leaf blower outside. Give me a second. Oh, okay. This was the first Flightless Bird episode where the people I was going to interview had a list of demands. I don't want to impinge upon your creative style and the flow of your show, but I'm a little bit concerned about F-bombs and how the board of trustees might react if they hear it afterwards. Look, this podcast isn't exactly hard-hitting journalism. So I said, okay, that's fine.

I won't say f*** or s*** at any time during this episode. Not to defame or depict SCSEMA or its members in a negative way. So yeah, I also ended up signing a document saying I would not defame anyone in the episode, which in about 20 years of journalism, I've never actually done before. It's actually an insane thing to do. I was also told I could never mention, not under any circumstances, the Do not include the so-called We talked about that before in the

Cemetery. To Billy, who's editing this episode good luck they just want to make sure that the religion is treated with respect because we get a lot of people that one of the ladies said you know i want to see the weird stuff and it's like well if you were talking to like a priest would you say that to him i want to see the weird stuff about catholicism you know well it all does seem a bit overboard, I assume this is simply a community that's wary of being ridiculed by the media. I can genuinely say I'm not here to ridicule.

I just want to learn what it's all about. And honestly, I'm so, so curious. One of the cool things about it is they have a vortex in their backyard, which I want to go explore. A what in their backyard? A vortex. It's an energy vortex. Oh, wow. Okay. So that all happened a few months ago. I jumped through a lot of hoops. I signed a large document I may one day regret signing, and I set a date to visit. And that date had arrived.

Yeah, so how are we feeling, Monica? Oh my God, I'm dying to know what was bleeped out yeah i can't say tell me what it is i signed like a five-page document and then we'll bleep it out again the really yeah so billy make sure that's bleeped because yeah i can't talk about it i'll let you go on your own googling expedition, but I can't even describe how I feel about it. Legally, my hands are tied. Siri, what is the d***? Oh, my buttocks just clenched.

And I did say if she was okay for me to record that conversation because I thought it was just really interesting because whenever I approach people about the podcast they want to know what the show's about and usually say oh you know it's a spinoff from Armchair Expert it's one of the biggest shows um you know Monica and Dax and everyone's like oh yeah that sounds interesting yeah but this was a real interrogation of my intent and whether I was going to take the Mickey or not Big Tent Revival that was a bit of a diversion on the way. Wow. I was on the way to Casadega. I saw the Big Tent.

I thought, my God, it's a Big Tent Revival. From the movies I know about them. There's a great Stephen King book called Revival, which I love, and that's about Big Tent Revivals. So interesting. I had no idea they were still very naive. I didn't know they were still doing them. I didn't either. But you didn't stick around for an actual...

I couldn't be f***ed, to be honest. Oh, I can't swear. Bleep that. This is the one episode I can't swear in, the whole thing. You've got to bleep that out. Oh my god. I feel weird. I feel very strange that you've agreed to not curse on this episode.

This whole episode. You sold your soul and our integrity did you see it? did you see the d*** you did? I can't even talk about what I did because that gives away what it is this episode's

already scary because you've done things you wouldn't do as a journalist and you didn't even ask us you didn't even ask us you didn't even ask us what the hell i think i would have been like no you can't promise that yeah what you're saying is when i sign big legal contracts to do with this show i should possibly loop in the producers of the show yeah i think it's probably really yeah it's a note i'll take all right next time stay tuned for more Flightless Bird.

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Okay, join me on my trip arriving at Casadega. It's about a 40-minute drive from Orlando to Casadega, the so-called psychic capital of America. But unless you queued it into Google Maps, it'd be easy to miss. Casadega is tiny, with about 3,000 people living here in total. The spiritualist camp itself is about 57 hectares. The first thing I notice in this sleepy little village are all the cats. There's a black one padding along to my left, and in the middle of the road is an old white frazzled creature licking

its paws. I wander down the main little street, peppered with about 55 houses that are owned by the medians who live here. On the corner, next to the one hotel in town, is the Casadega Bookstore. I go inside to meet Salonie Green, who's been the manager here for 12 years. So we're just enough off the beaten path that you really have to know about us to even realize that we're here. Even though we've been here 128 years, there's plenty of people that live right down the street in Deltona or Orange City or Deland

that come here and tell us that they never knew we were here. The camp was founded by George Colby, a New Yorker who says he was sent here by his spirit guide. Spiritualism first appeared in upstate New York in the 1840s. Back then, upstate New York was an area known as a burned-over district, a place where various religious revivals had popped off so much, it had metaphorically set the place on fire. Now, technically anyone from any religion or belief system can become a spiritualist.

There's one main thing you need to be on board with. We have one tenet, and that's that we believe that there is life on the other side through the veil we call death and that we can communicate with them. Other than that, there is no Bible. In other words, spiritualists believe you can talk to the dead, an idea that might seem more like horror movie material, but actually really took off in America during the 1860s. It really blossomed because of the Civil War. And the Civil War took people from the North. They were fighting in battlefields in the South, dying on battlefields in the South, and never came home. Their loved ones had no closure.

And this was a way of finally being able to communicate with their loved ones. And that's why it exploded. By 1897, the religion had gained about 8 million followers in the United States. People like Abraham Lincoln got into spiritualism. He became a fan because his wife, Mary Todd Lincoln, got into it. Lincoln once had a seance in the Red Room of the White House, wanting some spirits to help him make some important decisions about leading the country. Oh, yeah. Yep, they did. As we discuss the 16th president of the United States, we're joined by Cheryl, the woman I've been dealing with on the phone to get access to this place.

She clears up the difference between a medium and a psychic, which has been confusing me this whole time. We at the church have certified mediums, and mediums are really communicating with, we call it the so-called dead. So people that have passed beyond and they're communicating with spirit that way, you will never, ever, ever see a tarot card deck pulled out if you book a session with a medium here. But a psychic, almost all of them will use a tarot card deck, and that's more for divination, for trying to tell you the future sort of thing. The Casadega Spiritualist Camp was set up about 130 years ago in 1894. It was started so long ago it's now deemed a historic district, sitting on the National Register of Historic Places. Cheryl reminds me of the rules while I'm in town. With that in mind, I wander down the road and knock on the door of Richard, one of the mediums in town. Oh, I love your cat.

Who's this? Oh, that's Layla. Hey, Layla. You've got a loud meow. Richard has the most magnificent fluffy white Persian cat I've ever seen. And we're soon joined on the porch by a small yapping dog as well. This is Harley. He's a boy. Hey, Harley. Richard has a kind face and a peaceful demeanor. And I'm curious how he ended up here. I'm curious how anyone landed in this quaint little place.

I'm Richard J. Russell. I'm from Rochester, New York. At the age of 53, my life turned upside down. A divorce of my 30-year marriage. And one year later, all four companies that I had been building for 30 years went into insolvency for things I couldn't control. And I went from being a multimillionaire to zero. Is that enough motivation? And I went searching for answers. And coming through the state of New Jersey, I heard about this shabby little town called Casadega, Florida. Essentially, Richard said he came here for answers. Answers to why his life had gone off the rails. I was a businessman, 150 employees, 30 years, seven days a week, and I lost myself. And so I had a lot of great people here, turned my life around.

I never expected to actually be here. I thought I was going to get a magic pill and leave. And one thing led to another, and this is like a little university. That was 17 years ago. He studied here at the Spiritualist Camp and became certified to do spiritual healing and mediumship, a far cry from his fast-paced New York life. Is it surreal looking back on that kind of fork in the road? I found peace here, and peace is different from happy.

I'll be happy when I get that new car or that new house or that new relationship. Peace is something you find on the inside. You can be in the middle of a tornado and be at peace. Richard reckons he's seen about 6,000 clients over that time, from places like Russia, France, South America, and just about every state in the U.S. Many religions believe that we're immortal and we exist in the afterlife, but the communication with spirit is something unique to spiritualism. I didn't feel I had the gift, but as things developed, I had made that connection. Just one thing led to another, and I think I was supposed to be here. This entire time, Richard's fluffy white cat has been reaching out and

whacking my leg, wanting attention. It's been incredibly distracting. And I ask Richard why there are so many cats in this town. He says it's become almost a dumping ground for strays. So much so, they started a non-profit to spay them and give them shots. there are so many cats in this town. He says it's become almost a dumping ground for strays, so much so they started a non-profit to spay them and give them shots. And the cats just stay here. I don't know how many hundreds of cats we have, but it's probably in the hundreds. I thank Richard for his time. On the way out, I notice a ventriloquist dummy on the couch.

It's one of his hobbies. There are also small model cars on the shelves and on top of his TV, a throwback to his old life. I used to have real cars when I was up in New York. I had barns to put them in, but don't have anything now. I spend a lot of my day wandering around knocking on doors and talking to various mediums and healers. A lot of them are deeply aware of how they might be perceived, and some are happy to have a laugh about it. Sometimes people have such misconceptions. Yeah. I think we're witches and that we dance naked with cats.

Well, nobody wants to see that. Darlene was one of my favorites. I suspect that after visiting some place like this, you're going to have a much more open mind towards some of this. You know, we're not following the money here. Nobody's getting rich doing what I do. Unless you're on TV. Did I get any of the mediums to try and talk to someone I knew who died?

No. Look, if you listen to the Halloween episode, you'll already know I have a ghost that wakes me up at 3am every night. To be honest, I don't want any more annoying dead people in my life. But as I talk to various mediums, some can't help but try and pry into my brain. Surprise therapy. People in general perceive you a little bit different than maybe I have, but you feel alone too many times, and you're not.

And you do have a good centre. You have a strong core, ethical core, and you stand on that. Darlene also said I've been a bit all over the place lately. Maybe she's been listening to the podcast. Confusion. What am I doing? Should I go or should I stay? Should I go? That's been your mantra here now for a couple of years, I think. Should I go or should I stay? Chug, chug, chug, chug. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Oh, you're here, so I guess you're staying. So you're not a man without a home. You're just a man with many homes right now.

And one of them, I hope, is Casadega. Central to Casadega is what looks like a big church. You can find it down the end of the road after you've walked past about 15 cats and a few American flags lazily blowing in the wind. The door's locked, but Coquette takes me inside. She's been here for four years, studying spiritualism. She tells me this is the Colby Memorial Temple. Inside, it looks like a bog-standard church.

They even have a Sunday service at 10.30am. But then after the Sunday service comes the Grove service. And that's where a medium gets up in front of everyone and starts communicating with a dead person, or lots of them, as many as they can during a one hour time period. And what's the atmosphere in the room like when that happens? Oh my gosh, it's electric. People say they get goosebumps. Everyone in the room gets to listen in. From what I can understand, it's sort. People say they get goosebumps. Everyone in the room gets to listen in. From what I can understand, it's sort of like a chance to prove your mediumship skills.

Coquette takes me up onto the stage and makes a beeline for the corner. I'm going to take you to the seance room. The what room? The seance room. Oh. We walk down some steps around the corner and I peer into a small darkened room filled with rows of chairs. This is the seance room, so I'm going to stay here only because usually you have to have a pastor to go into the room. We do try to respect the energy of the room.

For two hours, one night a week, seances take place in here. There are several types of seances. You see those curtains in the back there? I do. Okay, so those curtains, that's called the cabinet. A medium normally would sit and go into a meditative state to draw in the spirit that has come into the room. Everyone in the audience participates in the meditation.

More people, the stronger the energy becomes. With the medium sitting there, they sometimes go into trance. That trance allows the spirit to come forth and speak whatever messages need to be spoken to the individuals in the audience or just in general about what's going on on planet earth. You see that mirror in the back above the chair? That was my next question. I figured it would have been. It's funny because sometimes people will look in that mirror as they're doing the seance because this room has to be almost pitch black. There's red lights. You see those two lamps on the ceiling? They're red. Okay, so that allows us to have some light within the room without dissipating the energy. White light tends to take away the energy. So the red light helps allow ectoplasmin to come through,

just helps the energy come through. In that mirror, a lot of people will see people walking in that mirror during the seance. It is an actual cool experience. You've seen that? I have. There's another type of seance where everyone sits around this giant big table waiting for the spirit to make themselves known in a more physical way.

That's the table tipping seance. The table tipping seance? Mm-hmm. Where you have a group of people, again, sitting for the same amount of time with their fingers, not their hands because you can push and hold, you know, but with their fingers on the table. And as you build the energy, this table will tilt. It'll come up off the feet there.

And this table has also moved across the room by itself. The whole time I've been here, I just keep thinking of the sixth sense in hereditary. Everything that she's been talking about just sounds so f***ing intense. Do you ever get sort of freaked out or scared? You're talking about all this in a very positive way, but like maybe I've just watched too many horror films and stuff, but the table moving would really, would freak me out. Well, the thing is, is that

people are given instruction ahead of time so that they wouldn't freak out because we don't want people to break the energy and we don't want people to freak out. We want people to have a wonderful time. I thank Coquette for the tour of the seance room and gingerly suggest maybe I'll come back another day to sit in on one. But in saying that, I'm not sure it's for me. Walking back to my car, I bump into some out-of-towners who have just arrived. It's a really quiet town, not exactly a tourist trap. I've seen probably 10 visitors total so far today.

There's some remarkable psychics here from what I understand. I have friends who come here and they've gone to the psychics here and they've been blown away. They really enjoy it. It's strange to think this community exists to talk to the dead, which I've learned is a bit of an American tradition, right from President Lincoln till now. As I go to leave, I slip into one of the attractions that's popped up that isn't part of the spiritualist camp. It advertises itself as a haunted house, which is apparently actually haunted. People that go in there feel it.

And so that part of it is very obviously natural and organic, but we have set it up to feel like a haunted house as well. Yeah. What is said to haunt this particular building? Well, depending on who you ask, because we do have a handful of spirit that we do know by name. But sometimes the energy does seem to change. And you just never know if there's a portal or something where they can come in and out. I pay a few dollars and go inside, walking through a variety of dimly lit, dusty rooms.

It's filled with scary dolls and horror movie memorabilia. So it isn't really like a haunted house in here. There's a chair that says June's chair. Sit in it and die. I won't sit in it. I can see why the spiritualists in town want to distance themselves from this stuff they see their beliefs as a religion and a way of life

not some haunted house but I also think how American all this is in a way it's all showmanship the big tent revival the seance room with its glowing red light the haunted house that might actually be haunted all these places elevate reality in some way offering something bigger than what our small lives give us. So some people

arrive in places like Casadega and stay, opting for a quieter life of communing with the dead. Others, like me, make our visit a little more fleeting. I liked it here. I love the cats, but I was ready to go. I'm happy with my own ghost back in Los Angeles Regular, organised, 3am every morning And yes, I saw the d*** that I'm not allowed to talk about Because I signed a contract and I don't want to get sued America, I'm learning to love your strange, strange ways We're fools for the price of a whisper in the night strange, strange ways.

I really loved making this trip and this little documentary because it was just like being in a different dimension to what I knew about. It was just this whole other life. This show is fun for many reasons, but one is you do get to explore places, things that even many Americans don't have access to. Yeah, and I'm so happy that you and rob weren't like oh yeah casadega that's where um all the psychics in america are yes but did you not know about vortexes no i didn't i mean vortexes sort of a dimension to another something well like portal to another

dimension i guess it's like we're energy really strong. Ojai is supposed to be a vortex. Sedona. And Sedona. Have you been to those places? Yeah. Do you feel? Because I felt a lot in Casadega, but it was a certain vibe and it's hard to know what is in your mind and what's actually something else. I don't know.

I was in Ojai two nights ago. How was it? Did you feel something? I did not feel. I did not know about this. I mean, that's true. If you know it beforehand and you go, are you more sensitive? And yeah, and I can't describe how unusual the town is.

It has become a place where people do drop their stray cats. And they care about animals like I do. And so they neuter them and they make sure they've got their shots. And the cats live there. And so you're walking down this little cute main street cats are everywhere yeah there are also a bunch of what are the birds the big scary vultures oh yeah there's vultures there as well i guess like the local sort of tip and so they come for the tip but they're in the trees and so i'm looking around there's these cats and then i hear this big like i look up and it's a tree of vultures it's a vibe well vultures are known to oh it's a motif right yeah right and so i mean that stuff was intense right but i guess what i

this um what can we say because you've signed our lives away? We can't be defamatory. But is it defamatory to just question the level of commercialism? Because people are paying. Yeah, so people pay for the service. That's what I always think with anyone who is offering some service to see into the future or communicate with a lost relative. Are they in it for the money? I don't know.

No one there was wealthy. Everyone there lived a very modest life. And all I can say is that they absolutely believed in what they were doing. It was absolutely a thing. If you could, I love this as well, because I'm the most skeptical person on the planet. I'm doing this episode, just being really into it. They've got me who would you talk to if you could talk to someone that was dead um i want to talk to dax's dad oh man wow because he's such a character in his life and he comes up all the time i want to know and also his take on stories dex has told

right i want to do some cross some fact checking if you will yeah totally yeah probably that or maybe my dad's dad who i never met or ruth bader ginsburg would be kind of amazing yeah can you record this conversation yeah like a podcast i would love to have her on posthumously. That would be a top rated. I think it'd do well. I'd talk to Monica, my grandma, because you know how when people die, sometimes you just think I should have done more or something. And everyone I'm okay with, but Monica, I didn't hang out with while she was towards the end end. Right, because you were scared.

Let's circle back. You were scared. I was a shitty were scared it was just i was a shitty grandson i was kind of shitty and she was in a different town i was young and an idiot i wish i'd spent more time and i would say to her like sorry like i would because she put so much into me as a kid and then it was that classic thing of when you get old people stop caring about you and i couldn't see it at the time. Right. And I feel real shitty about it. I understand that. I think it's also scary.

When people who you love deeply get old and start becoming. You're fraying at the edges, right? Yes. It's scary to be around. It's so sad. And it's easy thing to just kind of push aside. Yeah. And it's at a time when you should be doing the opposite, right?

I know. That's what sucks about it. I hate the idea of dying. I'm really scared of it, and I think seeing someone that you love in that state is just this big reminder that it's where we're all headed. And I guess this whole town exists to go, and this religion,

which, again, a president was into, it's like any religion. It gives you this idea that there's more, and that is such a relief. Yes. I've got to bleep that out. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God.

Death is so permanent. Totally. It's the most permanent thing. We're all going to experience it. So these cracks, there are some cracks like religion and this, right, where, oh, no, you can still communicate. That gives people a lot of hope, I think. I honestly knew nothing about spiritualism before going to Casadega and researching it, but the idea that everyone's in that room to prove that, because the idea that the congregation's

there and there's someone at the front, not giving a sermon, but giving a message from someone who's dead. And that's proof to the people there that it's real it's such an interesting concept to come up with i would return at some point and sit down in a service i'm so curious what it's like because the idea is that they'll bring someone for that someone knows and someone in the audience can be like oh yeah that's exactly what bob would have said that's it's like proof basically that they are communicating with someone so i just think it's a fascinating i mean it's more entertaining than like a boring old sermon from a boring old pastor. Why didn't you ask to talk to Monica?

I didn't want to pay anyone any money. Oh. And also I'm a bit scared now of all this stuff. Yeah. It'd be vulnerable. Yeah. It's a lot. It's like our original fear of the Ouija board.

Wow. Yeah. And that Tom Petty song, Casadega, is a really beautiful song Yeah, I love Tom Petty I was a big Tom Petty fan I'd heard the song, I think it's a B-side maybe I'd heard the song and never known it was a real place And now I'm in there, surrounded by cats

And the Bright Eyes album's great too Yeah, I haven't heard that record, I need to listen to it It's good Do they sell it there? They don't, but they should Yeah The bookstore's great if you're into like to it. It's good. Do they sell it there? They don't, but they should. Yeah. The bookstore's great if you're into weird books.

Yeah. It's got weird in a good way. It's got everything. It's so funny doing an episode where you're trying not to do any defamation, which you shouldn't do anyway. I feel pressure. I feel pressure too, which I don't like because I want to be able to share my opinion. That was part of the fun of doing the show. I wanted to make this episode really weird and I think I have.

Yes, I think you have. It's been a lot of fun. 50% of it is bleeped out. So it will leave a lot to the imagination. But yeah, in summary, I love Casadega. It's worth if you're heading out in that direction. It's like a 10 minute diversion. It's a lot of fun and I recommend it.

And the people there were so, so nice. We have a visitor. and they all had good laughs you know he says he doesn't want to ever be a visitor on this show but i do want to ask if you could talk to someone dead dead who would you pick they can be related to you or unrelated but you can talk to the other side and And I can speak their language, obviously. Yes, you can. Okay. They speak.

Oh. Well, I was going to say like Genghis Khan. Oh. Oh, baby. Maybe just like a personal one and then like a historical figure one. Genghis is good. Doesn't have to be. Oh, well, then my dad.

Yeah, I would like to chat with my dad. Monica wants to talk to your dad as well. That's who I picked. Oh, really? Oh, my God. Yeah. Well, I want to watch that conversation. Same well. That's who I picked. Oh, really? Oh, my God. Yeah. I want to watch that conversation. Same.

Yeah. Yeah, I know. He would like you a lot. Oh, I hope. Yeah, he would. I would try to impress him. He would try more than that. No, they don't have, like, hands and stuff.

Well, that's for the better. That's best for everyone. Who would you say, David? Monica, my grandma, who I didn't get to see a lot of before she died. Yeah, I guess I should have thought that way. I didn't think it was that kind of a question. I thought it was like, who would you have sex with if you had a time machine? No, this is not.

This is more pure. Okay. Stop recording. Love you guys. Love you. not this is more pure okay okay stop stop recording all right love you guys love you