Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Flightless Bird: Thanksgiving

Episode Date: November 22, 2022

In this week’s Flightless Bird, David Farrier sets out to find the perfect turkey and in doing so discovers what Thanksgiving is all about. Somehow, Farrier gets acclaimed celebrity chef Michael Voltaggio to cook him, Dax, Monica, and Rob a full Thanksgiving meal - which involves a lot of turkey, sides, stuffing and pies. Voltaggio and Farrier discuss turkey jacuzzis and where Michael can be found most Thanksgivings. Puzzled by the origins of Thanksgiving, David talks to Crystal EchoHawk, founder & Executive Director of illuminative.org - to find out the real origins of Thanksgiving and how to best spend the Holiday - including just checking an app like Native Land to clock the history of the land we live on. Kristen and Dax smell the turkey in the air and decide to show up for a tasty Voltaggio meal - and the whole Flightless Bird team gives thanks. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm David Farrier, a New Zealander who accidentally got stuck in America, and I want to find out what makes this country tick. Now most of the big things you celebrate in America, we also celebrate in New Zealand. Christmas Day, New Year's, all that stuff. But one holiday is a complete mystery to me, a day involving family, friends, alcohol, food, whitewash history, and a giant bird. Thanksgiving is something that hasn't made the 8,000 mile trip from America to New Zealand, so we don't get to partake in the ritualistic eating

of a giant poultry bird. We mostly just do chickens in New Zealand, so maybe that's why I find turkey so impressive. While a chicken's top running speed is 9 miles an hour, a turkey can double that, clocking in at a top speed of 18 miles an hour. But Americans prefer the turkey dead and on their plate. The turkey sandwich is the number one thing consumed in airports internationally, but it's a love-hate relationship too when it comes to Thanksgiving. I've overheard many Americans complaining about the turkey not being moist enough, too dry. I wanted to go on a quest to find the perfect Thanksgiving turkey as I embark on my first ever American Thanksgiving. So, get

ready to gather around that table with the people you love while you consume that giant bird sitting in the middle of your table, because this is the Thanksgiving episode. There have been a lot of people complaining to me from New Zealand that I'm giving an incorrect image of New Zealand sometimes. Because I paint with quite broad strokes. Sure, you got to. And I say, in New Zealand, we don't have this. Like with Halloween. When we did the Halloween episode, a lot of people in New Zealand said, we have Halloween.

Uh-oh. Look, we've got Halloween, but it's not like American Halloween. Yeah. But Thanksgiving, we don't have an inch of it. Just doesn't exist. So this is a real mind blower for me. I was in New Zealand on Guy Fawkes Day, which, of course, I knew nothing about as an American. And boy, did it look like Fourth of July to me.

You had people with fireworks all out on the side of the street, popping them off. Yeah. Essentially, it's a festival celebrating a terrorist, and we celebrate that by letting off a lot of explosions. Yeah, I thought a rose by any other name is still a rose. Yeah, Guy Fawkes is our July 4, and we love it. Letting off fireworks, do you like it or no? Guy Fawkes, historically right, was a dude who burnt down parliament or something.

What did he do? He was a terrorist. He was a terrorist terrorist and he was against the monarchy and so it's their act of rebellion in pursuit of i guess the constitutional monarch did it result in anything i don't know i don't actually know i don't either i have no idea that's what anonymous you know that those masks anonymous where those are guy fox masks i know i know it from v from vendetta they should have put more fireworks in v for vendetta exactly i don't remember that part but like what's your policy with fireworks and children do you let your kids let off fireworks children are allowed to handle sparklers yeah do you know what a sparkler is yeah we have those in new zealand we had a thing as

well though we like kids we chase each other around and just set them off in our hands and like fire them at people like explosives. We do a lot of that stuff. Yeah. And that's bad. This summer on the motorhome trip with the family, as luck would have it, there was an enormous firework. Emporium. It had to be 5,000 square feet.

I was the only person there. I always got curious. Like how often are they selling fireworks post 4th of July? Anyways, this was like mid-August. But I went in. I bought the Cadillac of packages. I could barely carry this thing. It had like 10 mortars in it, eight different cannons, all kinds.

The problem is it's sitting under the bus currently. There's almost no place to deploy these armaments. When Aaron and I got to Austin, we're staying in the middle of this field, like an Airbnb for camping. Nobody's out there. I pop off a couple mortars within five minutes the person that owns the properties down there they're upset so drama yeah there's i want to fire them off everywhere but no one's really excited for you

to do that in america is it illegal to let them off at any time except fourth of july because in new zealand you're not allowed to set them off unless it is Guy Fawkes. It's illegal on 4th of July. In California you can't have mortars. Are you serious? Yeah, you can have sparklers.

There's like a whole class of stuff. I guess there's fires here, right? It's state by state though because in Illinois we would drive to Wisconsin or Indiana to go get fireworks.

Same with Michigan. You drive down to Indiana because Michigan they didn't allow firecrackers, M80s, any of the good stuff. Yeah, right. Yeah.

But alas, we're here to talk about Thanksgiving. So off topic. Thanksgiving. Were you getting stressed? No, I just didn't have anything to offer that. Don't like explosions? You like turkey. I love turkey and I love an airport turkey sandwich.

I'm one of those people. What a stat. Best seller. That's the last sandwich I would get at an airport. Why? It's so bland, turkey. It's so safe. Because they do stock it everywhere.

I always see them sitting at the airport. I never buy them, but they're there, so I guess people do buy them. I assumed it was because they just stay long. Like they've got a good shelf life, turkey. Do they, though? It's like two months old. From your point of view, obviously you grew up watching a lot of American film and television. A lot.

And every single TV show has a Thanksgiving episode once a year. So you must have been very familiar with it. Did it look appealing and inviting? The thing that got me is how long the table is. In New Zealand, we don't have tables that go that long. We don't either. I don't know where they come from. That's another dump that you're going to get in trouble for saying we do have long tables we have the longest tables

listen because you love friends they're known for their thanksgiving episodes every year they have such a good array of thanks i weirdly don't remember any friend specific thanksgivings i remember he comes to thanksgiving he's the feast you don't even watch friend you're naming your cat religiously i like chandler bing and i liked ross a lot that was it we all love ross but yeah no thanksgiving it evoked warm feelings in me it felt like uh that often be comical scenes around the dinner table what was that thing i feel like was it norbert the one where one where Eddie Murphy played everyone in the family? Very funny premise.

I think there was a really good Thanksgiving scene in that film that I remember. You're just family getting together, eating a lot. Hilarity ensues. That's kind of what it is like for me. I think it's also the only holiday with a built-in nap. It's totally expected for people to nap. At what time? About five, four o'clock.

If you eat at 2 30 by four everyone's like oh let's watch the football game everyone's just out cold in a den because turkey has trip to fan and it makes you sleepy i did not know about that and because i think by the way how sleepy does it make you i don't know the point is once we all heard there was a chemical explanation and an excuse biological people were like well i can't help it it's got tryptophan and typically what time do you have the dinner 2 30 i think my family always did 1 30 too okay wait like four oh we'd have snacks out during the football game bears always play on thanksgiving and then like an early dinner that's the other neat thing about the holiday is it's like let's not do it at

breakfast time and let's not do it at lunch and let's not do it at dinner let's go to 30 because it's the only meal you're gonna have that day because you're eating so much food it's a tactical decision it is it's like you can't eat it too early because then you will get hungry again and you can't eat it too late because you will be starving until then but you will take such a deep tryptophan induced nap that you'll be up kind of late that night and then you get right back into that icebox what's the ideal nap time if you nap too long you're falling asleep and then the whole day's a write-off. I think an hour is totally standard.

It's not a 20-minute nap. You hit REM. Oh, see, I think hitting REM is too far. I think that's when your day goes off the rails. Yeah, smoking like a true Kiwi. I took a two-hour nap this week. That's a sleep, Monica. I know, I took a sleep. You went to bed in the middle of the day.

I went to bed at four today. I went out and talked to a bunch of other Americans about what they thought about Thanksgiving. This is their take. I think of it as family, friends time, and the food, eat everything. It's like potluck, whatever. But you know, as long as there's some dressing

and mac and cheese, I'm happy. Now this is my son. So I cook what he wanted. Stuffing is definitely my favorite side. Do you have to put the stuffing in the bird or can you make the stuffing outside of the bird? Because I always found it a bit disgusting that you're like stuffing this bird full of stuffing.

You could do both. I think I prefer it not in the bird, honestly, because I don't really like turkey, to be honest. That's one thing I don't really eat during Thanksgiving. I have a bunch of sides. I don't think we've ever put it in the bird. I think we just make the big pan of it so we know how much we're going to have. And it's always something that after I'm full, after a good Thanksgiving dinner at like 1130,

I'll go back and I'll get more stuffing and put melted cheese on it, even though I'm super full. That's like my own tradition. Thanksgiving, sweet potato pie for me. Pecan pie. Turkey. Gravy. Yeah, the turkey can get quite dry. Yeah, definitely. Depends who makes it, and the potato salad can't have

raisins. Some people put raisins in potato salad? There are people, yes. There are people who do that. Of course. Right. It's fucked up. I really like corn pudding, which is kind of a weird thing that maybe they don't have in other places. It's like milk and like cream corn and you kind of bake it. Okay, now that I think about it, it's like a weird texture, but I don't know. It's a little bit sweet, but savory. It's actually really good. Is it sloppy or solid? When you bake it, the

top is solid, but when you cut into it, it's more liquidy. It sounds really gross now that I'm describing it, but it's delicious. In the Midwest, we have a lot of casseroles like that. Corn pudding. Green bean casserole is famous, but it's only good, in my opinion, if you do it out of fresh green beans and stuff.

If you use the canned. No, not the canned. The sides make the meal, for sure. I mean, turkey almost always ends up a little bit dry. There are some traditional sides, but every family kind of has their own special sides that they prefer or different ways that they cook things. So, like in the south, you'll find mac and cheese is a really common side. But where I'm from on the east coast, up north find mac and cheese is a really common side, but where I'm from on the East Coast up North, mac and cheese is not as popular as a side.

What I learned is that food is really the focus as opposed to the giving of the thanks. Oh yeah, no. I thought that was like a big part of it, you know, but it's just eating. Well, but hold on. You do give thanks at the dinner table. Yeah, which is completely unconventional.

I don't know that I'm ever at another meal where people pause to give thanks. So it is novel in that way. I guess unless you're praying to God or something, you're not really ever giving thanks, are you? Not everyone does it. We do it at our friends' givings. We go around and say. Oh, your family didn't do it? My family didn't go around and say what we were thankful for. Really?

We did. I think that's a personal preference. All those foods were a bit of a mystery to me. Did they ring true to you? The corn and the potato salad with raisins? No, potato salad is not allowed at Thanksgiving. That's a barbecue. What's standard is mashed potatoes.

Exactly. So I'd be curious to serve two different potato dishes. But people also do a sweet potato is common also. So you do normally have two potatoes. But those are different. One's a yam. I mean, if we're being honest, they are totally different. But they're called sweet potatoes. The sweet potato casserole, where you do like the marshmallow and sugar. I love that. What's your favorite side? Stuffing. The whole meal for me is about the stuffing. I also like that they were calling it macaroni and cheese and dressing, which I imagine is gravy.

No, some people call stuffing dressing. Oh. Because we're not eating the one that's stuffed in the bird. In the tray, it's dressing. Yeah. I just think of dressing as salad dressing, like a liquid. Yeah, that's very pedestrian of you guys to think that wilford brimley famously would say get yourself a turkey dinner with all the trimmings trimmings trimmings but he would say trimmings i feel like

trimmings is more christmas it's in a lot of books about christmas so that's another question i have about this everyone describing thanksgiving friends friends, family, you know, eating. Oh, you say that like you hate friends and family, which you do. Awful. It just sounds like Christmas. Thanksgiving to me is just an early Christmas. Well, no, there's no presents. There's no tree.

There's no tree. Christmas is completely different. And the food is much different. There's no home invader in a red suit and black boots. You're not going to have turkey on Christmas. Maybe some people do. What do you eat on Christmas? I think some people do a turkey.

Ham is common. Oh, yeah, ham. Ah. Yeah, Christmas ham. What about the turkey for a peg? Nice salty ham. And then you're never going to have stuffing, dressing. You're never going to have sweet potato casserole.

You're never going to have green bean casserole. Brown and serve rolls. I only see them on Thanksgiving. They don't ever come out. They should come out all the time. Brown and serves are the best. What are those? I only know crescent. Brown and serve, they come and they're just a little bit undercooked and you heat them up and then they get a little

crisp on the outside, browned, and then they're really soft and warm. Get yourself a nice honey baked ham. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Flightless Bird is brought to you by BetterHelp. Now, sometimes I wish that life came with a user manual because, to be honest, Monica, I think it's too complicated.

I don't understand what the heck's going on i know you're in the middle of a mini crisis right now we won't talk about it you're far away so you don't have our soothing guidance i mean you're wearing a hoodie it's all the way up your hair's a mess yeah i'm on the road monica and it's a lot i'm away from my friends and to be honest i think now is probably quite a good time for BetterHelp because therapy does sometimes help when you don't know what the heck is going on. And right now I feel isolated. I feel scared and I don't know what to do. Oh, no. Yeah. OK, we got to get you hooked up with BetterHelp. And it's super easy. We can do it within like five minutes because it's connected over three million people with licensed therapists.

It's convenient. It's accessible anywhere, even for you who's far away right now. It's the world's largest therapy service. BetterHelp has matched 3 million people with professionally licensed and vetted therapists available 100% online. Plus it's affordable. You just fill out a brief questionnaire to match with a therapist.

And if things aren't clicking, you can easily switch to a new therapist anytime. It couldn't be simpler. No waiting rooms, no traffic, no endless searching for the right therapist. Learn more and save 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com slash bird. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash bird. Flightless Bird is brought to you by Aura Frames. Now recently I had a falling out with the producer of the show, Rob. Wasn't my fault, but anyway, we won't get to that. What I did to make up is I got an Aura Frame and I filled it with digital photos of memories, beautiful memories between me and Rob. Us on holiday,

us at the beach, us staying at different wacky hotels around America. And you know what? He got that digital photo frame, he turned it on, he saw those memories, and it was friendship restored. We are coming up on the holidays, and this would be a beautiful gift to give someone because it's personal and easy. And everyone else at your Christmas or Hanukkah or anything you celebrate will be jealous, like I was jealous of the frame you gave Rob. So it's a good gift. It is a really good gift.

It invokes jealousy in other people. Name the best digital picture frame by Wirecutter, The Strategist, and more. Aura is nothing like the digital frames from a decade ago. Every Aura frame is thoughtfully designed to fit any decor style with a stunning HD display, unlimited storage, super easy setup, and no fees. Aura frames make easy, meaningful holiday gifts, especially for the hard-to-shot for folks in your life, like Rob. Give yourself the gift of time and check off a few more of those names on your list a little early. From now through Black Friday and Cyber Monday, listeners can get up to $50 off Aura's best-selling Carver matte frames.

Just go to auraframes.com slash bird. That's A-U-R-A frames dot com slash bird. These are Aura's lowest prices ever, so get yours now before they sell out. Terms and conditions apply. Well, to get us in the Thanksgiving spirit, we went on a little trip, didn't we? All of us. By the way, I just want to give thanks to you for orchestrating this whole thing.

It was pretty special. I'm wondering how the documentary I've made reflects your actual experience there. So let's see how we feel about this. I'm in the car with Monica and Rob. We're driving about an hour out of Los Angeles to attend my first ever Thanksgiving. How is this possible? I hear you yelling. It's not even Thanksgiving yet.

Well, to make this episode in time for Thanksgiving, some friends have agreed to cook us an early Thanksgiving dinner. Monica is driving, Rob's up front, and I'm squished in the back like a child. We're talking about Thanksgiving memories. I don't have any because I've never been. So Rob decides to share a heartwarming story. There was one year we're all sitting at Thanksgiving dinner. It's like the kids table, but we're grown up. My little brother, Natalie was there too. And my two sisters and my grandma in her nineties was sitting with us for some reason and she cannot hear at all. So for some reason, my brother started talking about how he likes to have his balls licked by his girlfriend.

Oh, granny. And assuming she can't hear him. And he finishes the story and she turns and looks at him and she's like, I can hear out of my left ear. Oh, granny. And it just horrified everyone. Everyone just acts like they're not people. Once you turn 50, if you're a woman, they just act like you're not a person. They just talk about nasty stuff and think you can't hear. It's about 5 p.m. and in preparation for tonight, I haven't eaten all day. It's about 5pm and in preparation for tonight, I haven't eaten all day.

Already my stomach's rumbling. It has a very problematic history. But for me, I make it about community. And any kind of excuse to get together and have a fun meal is my favourite thing. So I love it. I love Thanksgiving. And I am an anomaly. I like turkey. Ah yes, the humble turkey. The turkey evolved in North America about 20 million years ago. They were domesticated about 2,000 years ago, their destiny reaching our plates.

But sometimes they fight back. Wild turkeys can be very aggressive. Just riding along the path, this gigantic turkey just kind of like jumps up towards my face, almost clawed me in the face. So kind of knocked me off my bike and then it proceeded to chase me around for like five minutes. As well as being aggressive, I also hear that turkeys can be quite dry to eat, unlike the moist and tender meat of a chicken. Why are we eating the turkey on Thanksgiving? Look, no one really knows why the tradition started. Historians say the first Thanksgiving in 1621 featured exactly zero turkeys. That one was all about geese, duck, and a bit of venison. The idea is that turkeys eventually became a Thanksgiving thing because they're indigenous

and native to North America. They set America apart from England. About 150 years later, Alexander Hamilton came along and literally said, no citizen of the US shall refrain from turkey on Thanksgiving, and George Washington made it a national holiday in 1789. So now on the fourth Thursday of every November, Americans eat 46 million of them. We've pulled off onto a dirt road. Apparently they shot the film Nope around here.

It looks like we're in a Western. It's very bumpy. You're such a good driver, Monica. I just felt really safe. Good, thank you. We're about to pull in. We're close. Part of my quest is to find out how to create the perfect Thanksgiving turkey.

So we're driving to the house how to create the perfect Thanksgiving turkey. So we're driving to the house of acclaimed chef Michael Voltaggio. He was the winner of the sixth season of Top Chef. He's opened numerous amazing restaurants, and he knows how to create the perfect turkey. Okay, come in. We have a full feast happening. We're greeted at the door by Bria, Michael's partner. She's an actor, and if you haven't seen her and William Defoe in The Florida Project, please watch it immediately after this episode.

She's the one who made this night happen. We're having like a full Thanksgiving meal with like stuffing and all the sides. Oh my goodness. It's going to be super delicious. It's been jacuzziing for like all day. I don't even know what that is. He got like a full jacuzzi maker for it. Bria leads us all into the kitchen where we meet Michael. I was a bit scared to meet him because anyone on Top Chef is scary.

But he's really warm and kind. He's also just objectively cool. His hair is shaved at the sides and he's covered warm and kind. He's also just objectively cool. His hair is shaved at the sides and he's covered in tattoos. And like Bria said, there's a jacuzzi on the bench. Pieces of turkey are gently relaxing in what looks like a tiny jacuzzi. The word sous vide became like a food trend. Buzzwords, people were talking about it like, I'm cooking sous vide. But for me, when I decided to take on the task of turkey, and I actually did it with Wayne Sonoma 12 years ago, they were like, we want the perfect turkey. And so I haven't changed this recipe since I developed it like 12 years ago, but I break it

down into its individual parts. The legs are actually floating in that jacuzzi right now. On top, you see the breast attached to the wing. That was cooked at a separate time and temperature. That was brined overnight. So that actually sat in a marinade of sugar and salt to keep it from drying out when you cook it. And then the thighs over there are completely boned out and also cooked at a different time and temperature. And then I'll bring it all back together and give it to you on the platter

the way that you would expect to see it since I believe you deserve to have it. Traditional looking, but not traditional tasting. Actually delicious, not dry. The thing is, dryness was the least of our problems. This early Thanksgiving was almost over before it even got started. So Michael was out of town, and it was my job to find a turkey.

Little did I know that every turkey in the United States has the flu and when one bird gets it they kill the whole flock so there is a nationwide turkey shortage so I called every single butchery and store in Los Angeles no one had a turkey. I had to get a turkey overnighted from a farm in like Pennsylvania. I'm so sorry. I feel really guilty about this. You deserve a turkey for your first Thanksgiving. The turkey itself, I think is kosher because it was the only turkey we could find. So it came from an organic kosher farm. So I'm pretty sure this will be the best and most responsible turkey you'll ever eat. I get out my phone and check.

And yeah, there's a turkey plague going on. A highly contagious strain of avian flu is spreading to several states in the US. Wisconsin is the latest state to report finding H5N1, the scientific name for the avian flu. Reports I read said supply chain should be a bit more sorted by Thanksgiving. So don't panic. I think you'll be fine. Turkeys are not fun to work with, but it is a challenge.

And so I appreciate that because here's this center part. Everyone says Thanksgiving, it's all about the sides. It was all about the sides because the turkey was dry and it didn't taste good and so I feel like they could have broken tradition and been like maybe we should try something else how about pork belly that's not dry and that's what's wild about tradition is that people are so afraid to break them but I don't think the turkey is gonna be offended if you stop cooking them I've just heard turkeys are a very sort of this sort of dry bird. Not tonight, though.

And moist is one of my favorite adjectives, so thank you for using that. Monica hates the word moist, which just makes me want to say it more. Moist, moist, moist. Monica has a real issue when I say moist, and I think everyone likes a moist thing. For your first turkey and your first Thanksgiving, I think it's important that it's the best one so that you can continue to hate the turkey like everyone else for all the years to come in perpetuity.

I always had to work on Thanksgiving. I've worked in hotels when I was 19, 20 years old, and you're cooking for a thousand people. So do the math of how many turkeys, how many pounds of potatoes. And so I made a decision that when I had my own restaurants, I was going to stop doing that. But then about eight years ago, I volunteered at the LA Mission and I've been going down there every year and cooking their Thanksgiving on Skid Row. And it took me back to the same level of production that I swear I would never do. But when you can cook for people that need to eat as opposed to ones

that are entitled to eat, that to me is what Thanksgiving is all about. That's what Thanksgiving is to Michael, cooking turkeys for those that wouldn't otherwise get to eat. For this advanced Thanksgiving tonight, he refused any kind of payment, which is crazy because he's literally putting on a full Thanksgiving spread for us. He and Bria suggest we give that direct to the mission. So yeah, that's where the money's gone. What's your gravy policy? There's some gravy happening here. How's that happen?

So I took all the bones. I roasted them from the turkey, pressure cooked it in chicken stock and just reduced, reduced, reduced with a little bit of butter. So it's actually gluten-free. I didn't put any flour or anything like that to thicken it. It's just all the natural reduction of the turkey.

We've got mashed potatoes, I've got sourdough stuffing in the oven right here. Some asparagus. Incredible. I'm curious about the stuffing, because my grandma Monica was big about stuffing chickens. And does stuffing have to be stuffed inside the bird, or do you do it separately?

So I do it separately, one, because I broke the whole bird down, so there was nothing to stuff it into. But I don't know many people that actually still stuff it into the back of the bird. So I think we should just start calling it bread pudding. Bread pudding. Sign me up. Looking around the kitchen, there's just so much going on, even just with the turkey. It's all been separated out. Different body parts are simmering at different temperatures. The gravy's here, the stuffing's there. And as someone who struggles to follow even the simplest recipe,

I wonder how Michael does it. I am incapable of cooking. I just don't have that skill. You're describing what you're doing with the turkey over here. How do you know how long to do this stuff? How do you know to separate these bits out? I just don't understand how you know this. I mean, I think that's the intersection of art and technical abilities sort of collide. And so I set out to create the perfect turkey. And so

trial and error. I mean, I cooked, sorry, turkeys. I'm sorry. Thank you for your service. I cooked a lot of turkeys to get here. I get a text. Dex and Kristen are on the way. They must have smelt the bread pudding. You're such a good host. Thank you for this. I'm trying really hard. Thank you for noticing. So far tonight's been bliss. We're laughing and joking and everything smells so good. But I know for some, Thanksgiving can turn bad. When families all gather together to eat and drink, things can get feral. And I think of

Rob's poor old grandma. With that in mind, I asked Michael what his worst Thanksgiving was. So my first job was at the Holiday Inn when I was 15 years old in Frederick, Maryland. And my first job was to run the food back and forth to the buffet. And so for Thanksgiving one year, they got the bright idea to dress us up in very inappropriate costumes. And I would be canceled for this today. They put me in a pilgrim costume and told me that was my job. Like, I had to do that. You know, it's the Christopher Columbus syndrome. Like, we're celebrating these things that we shouldn't be celebrating.

But for that day, I had to wear a costume and run food back and forth. I was 15 years old to a Thanksgiving buffet at a Holiday Inn. And that's how I got into fine dining. And here's the elephant in the room with Thanksgiving, right? For many Americans, it represents this day you can hopefully take off work and get to hang out with the ones you mostly love. The next second, some holiday inn is sticking a 15-year-old employee in a pilgrim outfit. Because pilgrims. The simple undeniable fact is that when settlers arrived in America, 90% of indigenous peoples died, almost exterminated by a combo of genocide and introduced disease. So my name is Crystal Echohawk. I'm a citizen of the Pawnee Nation,

which is in Oklahoma, and I'm kick a hockey band. And my Pawnee name is Kiharu Hatawa, which means lights in the room woman. Crystal is a friend of a friend. This whole episode is friends of friends. And she knows America more than most. And I think the biggest context is to understand is that there was full-on genocidal colonization happening

like in the years preceding. It was an uneasy truce between the Pilgrims and the Wampanoags and it really eventually turned into a very bloody, destructive battle. I mean, really when you look at some historians, they point to the actual real first Thanksgiving that the Pilgrims were very proud to celebrate was actually a year later when they celebrated the massacre of 400 Pequot people. I acknowledge there's simply no easy, non-awkward way to transition into this stuff in the middle

of a fairly happy-go-lucky podcast about making a delicious, moist turkey. But Thanksgiving is also about the making of America. And it was awkward. Probably a more appropriate term would be horrific. So it's tempting to just leave it out, which is, I guess, the approach America took. There was a study done back in 2015 by a woman named Professor Sarah Shear. She found that 87% of schools in the United States don't teach about Native Americans past 1900. Gone. done. Like, we just sort of fade to black. Isn't that convenient? That's right around the same time.

Close of the 1800s, beginning of the 1900s is when you start to see this narrative of fade to black, the noble savage. That's when the Thanksgiving myth really starts taking off. Crystal isn't here to stop you celebrating Thanksgiving. She'd just prefer it if we didn't deny reality. And if people stopped dressing up as pilgrims and wearing Native American hairdressers at Coachella. If you went and polled different Native people, you're going to get a lot of different answers about how people deal with Thanksgiving.

How they choose to celebrate it or not celebrate it. And I think as we're trying to really build bridges with allies, like call them in and let's flip the script. Let's rebrand this. Let's figure out a different way. There's a way that if it's important to you to get together and eat Thanksgiving and do your turkey and potato thing, then let's make it something that can be really positive and educational for your family. I don't think the expectation is like everybody sit there and unpack the genocidal

history of what happened to Native Americans while you're eating your turkey. But I think that there's cool ways, really finding out whose land you're on, maybe finding a Native TV show or film you want to watch and to have just sort of a discussion and really begin to open it up and think about, wow, okay, how do I want to be going forward? How do I want to be a good ally with Native peoples and again, not perpetuate bullshit. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors flightless bird is brought to you by masterclass now with masterclass you can learn from the world's best minds anytime anywhere and at your own pace you can learn how to cook with gordon ramsay improve your songwriting, or learn power of personal branding from

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Terms apply. That was a pretty awkward transition to make into that stuff. But yeah, that's the way. I mean, it is just kind of this awkward thing, right? Yeah to make into that stuff. Yeah, that's the way. I mean, it is hard. It is just kind of this awkward thing, right? Yeah. I downloaded that app, Native Lands, and it tells you what lands you're on in America. The Tongva.

This was their spot in California. And I think that's a cool idea. She also mentioned a cool thing that's happening in America is Native Americans being treated in pop culture in a different way. Reservation Dogs, which is weirdly a show that Taika Waititi and New Zealander co-created, that takes a really interesting look at Native Americans. And there's this film that I just watched recently called Prey, which is in the Predator series. It is the first film that has an entire dub that is in Comanche, the language. The Predator franchise is this huge thing. You've got aliens and Predator, and the new one takes partator franchise is this huge thing. You've got Aliens and Predator,

and the new one takes part before white people got to America, and it's just Native Americans basically fighting the Predator, and it's really, really fucking good. Cool. And so there's just cool stuff coming through, and she's just like, we should just be watching more of this and talking about it instead of ignoring it. I mean, definitely I didn't learn about Thanksgiving being connected

to. It just wasn't at school at all. At all. Just not there. Yeah. Well, here we go. Do you think it's a holiday about Native Americans? There's some record. It was all men at the table and there were Native Americans at the table. But is the holiday about giving thanks for a harvest or is it about Native Americans? Yeah, that's the thing. I think the first Thanksgiving, the narrative that Americans have been told is that it was about this really peaceful hand over the land. And that's the tradition that's been passed through schooling. I think most of us now think about it as being thanks.

Well, it's called Thanksgiving, and it's about giving thanks for the harvest. No, but you are taught in school that the first Thanksgiving was the Indians and the pilgrims and they sit together. And that's why you do make the headdresses with the construction paper. And it is very much about those two coming together. That's what I was taught for sure. This is reminding me, I think I must have been in first or second grade. We had to come up with our Native American name, but I didn't know any. So I picked this name, Sangeetha, which is an actual Indian name. Oh, right.

You still lifted. Yeah, that was my grandparents' friend's daughter's name. And I knew it, and there was sun in it. So I was like, I'm Sangeetha. And they were like, no, that's not. Literal enough. That like no that's not literal that's not an indian name that's not a native american name i'm like no that's what i'm going by i love that you did i think that's kind of great i connected to my culture that one moment put your foot down i did it's kind of endearing i did it wrong but that's fine i'd be real concerned if there was an

elementary school in america right now teaching that we had this joyous union with Native Americans and everyone prospered and there wasn't a genocide. I'd be real concerned about that. I wonder what's how we should ask the kids. I know my kids aren't learning that. I mean, I can find out next week. I have friends. I am going to the South who have friends. Yeah.

With kids. Yeah, let's find out. Because if that part's not being taught, I think that's the issue. Again, this is the awkward thing where I'm not from here, so I'm coming from no place of expertise at all. Yeah, yeah. But my impression from talking to people here is that it's still glossed over and not taught and that it was just hand over.

There's a big difference between glossed over. What I'm saying is if they're still teaching the thing people object to, it was taught that there was this peaceful harmony between natives. If I told you, let's just say, hypothetically, that's not being taught and hasn't been taught for eight years. Yeah, that would be great. Does that solve the problem? It's a big part of the way to solving it. Okay. Yeah.

It's a big part of the way to solving it. Teaching the right information from early on so that when you're at Thanksgiving, you actually know. Yeah. I guess we're going to have to do some further research to know if that's being taught anywhere currently. It is still a problem for some older people because they were taught what I was taught. I do think a lot of people haven't had the need to think twice. If they're not paying attention, there's no need to think twice about what it really was. If you were taught what I was taught. Right.

But young kids, I mean, I do think the newer generations are way better off. Yeah, super savvy. Yeah. And they are being told real information. Yeah, I can only speak for my kids. And granted, we're in a liberal pocket of Los Angeles. So who knows? I would be curious if it's the whole dress dress is a native do a headdress if any of that's happening

anywhere yeah yeah i remember the turkey construction but you put the feathers you draw stuff on the feathers for the turkey yeah no we like wore a whole thing yeah okay okay we're gonna do an awkward transition back into having a really good time at thanksgiving great we did which we did such a good time we had a really good time as i watch michael in the kitchen i realize i don't have any of these things in my apartment i certainly don't have this turkey jacuzzi how are mere mortals like myself meant to do a good turkey at home one easy tip you could do at home though and you don't have this machine and all that, you brine it. You put all the spices in. This is going to sound disgusting, but you mix it into mayonnaise and actually rub the outside of the turkey with the poultry seasoning and everything in mayo and bake it. And it creates this delicious golden crust on the outside of the turkey.

But it's also fat. So go mayo. Go mayo. Go mayo. Mayo. Another much-loved American treat, and no doubt a separate Flightless Bird episode. What is good to pair with a turkey, drink-wise or food-wise?

Is there anything it naturally goes with? I mean, for me, the best bite is getting a little bit of turkey, a little bit of mashed potato, a little bit of gravy, and a little bit of stuffing on one bite. People love cranberry sauce, and I never understood why, because it's disgusting. But then I made it from actual cranberries one day, not right out of the can. It was actually delicious. And so now I get it. But like everything else, it's like a game of telephone. It gets dumbed down and dumbed

down and dumbed down. And eventually it became something that just like literally out of a can and falls out in one mold. It's basically like a jello mold that looks like a tin can that tastes like kind of cranberry. Suddenly, like a Thanksgiving miracle, Dak Shepard appears just in time for the food. With his arrival, the usual group dynamic kicks in and him and Monica start bullying me. You can hear it in the background. Monica saying, David, you took your shoes off. So that's something I've been thinking about a lot since I've been in America, and I'm glad you raise it.

I always take my shoes off indoors. I've noticed everyone here right now is wearing shoes except me. Yes, a lot of houses prefer shoes off. So you're doing the right thing. It's nice. I think it's respectful. But also I think if someone did that in my house, I'd be like, you're doing the right thing. It's nice. I think it's respectful, but also I think if someone did that in my house, I'd be like, you're too comfy.

It falls under the farting category. Like, I want someone to feel comfortable enough to fart around me, you included, David. There's no way we would not have to acknowledge it's more sanitary. But unlike the rest of the world, Americans are too busy working. We don't have the time to take our shoes on and off, unlike you guys who are working 32 hours a week and have benefits somehow. Oh, New Zealand, what a place. I realize this whole time I've been very focused on the food,

but Thanksgiving is clearly so much more than that. It's more than a meal. It's an entire day, and I want to learn how to spend it. You traditionally watch the Detroit Lions play football. They somehow have grandfathered themselves into being the team you have to watch every Thanksgiving. And I'm from Detroit and I say this with love. They're the worst team ever. And so it's a really curious thing. So imagine being in a sport and it's like on the big day where everyone gives thanks. Let's watch the worst team play, right? Yeah, it's deeply unusual. It's kind of like, are you sort of rooting for the underdog? Yeah, I don't even know that anyone roots for him. I think it's more a spectacle of like, how bad will they lose this Thanksgiving? The other thing

that's weird and what we're not doing correctly is the timing of Thanksgiving is peculiar. It's generally you eat dinner at like 2 p.m. It's an early meal. It's not dinner. It's late lunch. It's impossible to plan your eating that day. I think you're supposed to have a pretty good-sized breakfast because you're going to have to make it until 2 or 3. And then everyone is so full by 4

that everyone's out cold by 4.35. And then around 9 p.m., people start sniffing around. Where was all that food that we put in the fridge? What happens with all the leftovers? Because I'm imagining not everything is eaten, right? There's a really traditional response, which is sandwiches. You're supposed to put everything you ate individually between bread with a healthy dose of mayonnaise. There's that mayonnaise again. That definitely has to be

another episode. I walk through into another room and interrupt Bria and Kristen talking. There's nothing to make it feel more like Thanksgiving than someone wandering around with a microphone and shoving it in your face. Where does Thanksgiving rank? You know, you've got Christmas, you've got Halloween, you've got Easter. It's mid-level. You can't decorate as much for it. I really like to eventize things, so Halloween and Easter are going to be my top two. I recently became a full-blown cheater and I'll never go back. I, two years ago, started ordering Thanksgiving dinner. Like, I previously made it, and my family would come in, and I'd be with them, and we're in the kitchen, and I come from the Midwest, so a lot of things have, like, a Ritz cracker base, or the green beans have mushroom

soup, and then Funyuns on the top. Like, it's... What are Funyuns? They're, like, dried onion chips. What if onions? They're like dried onion chips. Yum. But two years ago, I ordered from a little mom and pop catering place by our house. And the experience I had at Thanksgiving, I would say, was my best. Because the not bustling around the kitchen and stressing out that everyone has what they needed was my kind of Thanksgiving. It was all just taken care of. Yeah. And I was supporting a local place and it all came prepared and we sat down and ate. There was way more family time, I think.

Family. That's what this is all about. I don't have any family here in America. They're all back in New Zealand or scattered around the UK. Maybe these people around me right now are my family. My weird little family. And my weird little family is getting hungry tummies. How many hours has gone into this meal? Because we're down to the final sort of minutes, and I'm thinking this means such a build-up.

I started this morning at 7am, so it's 7.30 now, so I took a couple breaks, but about 12 hours today and 4 hours last night. This turkey, flown in from Pennsylvania, has been over a day in the making, but the next 15 minutes will be its transformation. So I'll render all the fat out of the thighs and then I'll cook the breast in that same fat. Crispy chicken thighs are very popular right now in most restaurants. This will be that version, but turkey and then the breast itself will then render in the same fat. I mean, this is stressful. stressful no this is dinner at home david doesn't really know i fear the extent of you yes yes yes most things in america i'm sort of in the dark a little bit michael's a huge

huge it's some googling and i understand understand that he does know what he's doing. I'm also quite hungry at this point. The smells are going to start, and I think that's when you're like, you know Thanksgiving's happening. You're going to walk into the smells, you're going to see it, you're going to feel it, and you're getting your tradition tonight. Things smell good when you start cooking them, don't they? I mean, that's kind of the idea, and Thanksgiving is really about the smells.

You know, you think about Christmas, you walk into somewhere and you smell apple cider and peppermint bark, but Thanksgiving, it's a savory holiday. You smell savory stuff, you know? This bird's browning up quite nicely. It is. We're gonna throw a little butter in there, and we're actually gonna, since it came out of the water bath,

now we're gonna baste it in, like, a bit of a butter bath. So this butter will get nice and frothy. We'll baste the outside of the turkey with that. And again, we're adding to baste it in like a bit of a butter bath. So this butter will get nice and frothy. We'll baste the outside of the turkey with that. And again, we're adding a little bit more fat, a little more moisture, but it's also going to help crisp that skin up perfectly. All right. We're about five minutes out and we'll be ready to eat. And this is the moment.

We all head into the dining room, sitting around the table, we reflect on Flightless Bird. Well, it's more a case of Dax tearing into the entire concept of the show. I've had stuffing, but never in the context of Thanksgiving. Yeah, do we have to like play along and act like he's not? Oh, David's never had turkey. David's never had chilled water. When you take a bite. Good job, Davey.

Good job, Davey. What do you think? Michael comes in, a giant plate and a giant cooked turkey in hand. While alive, it could run up to 19 miles an hour and attack a fully grown man. Tonight, it's dinner. No one wants to listen to people eating and telling endless stories and giggling away, so I won't put you through that. I will say it was the best Thanksgiving I've ever had.

Sure, it was my first, but as we went around the table and gave thanks, I realized everyone here felt really thankful for the company, for that bread pudding, and for the turkey, that moist, moist turkey. Gosh, it was good. This is abnormally generous of you guys. I can't thank you enough. This is such a rare, unique experience, and I'm so grateful. And I can tell how much work went into all this, so I feel so lucky to be here. So thank you guys. And then to the armchair crew, this weird thing has taken us so many places already. And I'm so grateful to all you three for taking me all over the place and having all these fun experiences.

Then Dex turns to look at me. And then you're a smoke show. No, no. He was looking at Kristen. Fucking heels to head, sex pot. I love you. Rob and I know what a huge deal it is to be sitting at a Voltaggio meal. And I'm very, very, very grateful that you had us and that you spent all day cooking. I can't believe it.

And also, yes, we hit 500 episodes today of Armchair and I'm incredibly thankful for a job that's not a job. How did that even happen? I don't know. And to David Ferrier for bringing us Fightless Bird and teaching us more about America than we even knew. Love you guys. And Kristen Bell because she's so sexy.

It's Rob's turn. He'd said earlier how much he hates this part. Unlike most of us, Rob's not in love with talking, especially not into a microphone. He's always gently helping us in the background. He does so much, but he hates the interstage. Right now, he'd rather be dead like that turkey.

I'm thankful to be here eating this food in your house. It all looks incredible, and I'm thankful to Dax and Monica and David for all the experiences we've had the last four years, and you're with you, David.

I hate this. I hate this. And Kristen smokes show. We're not very good at showing emotions in New Zealand. We refuse. And I especially refuse. What are you good at in New Zealand? Because all I hear about is what you guys are not good at. I'm actually starting to get quite a few complaints from New Zealand.

Being like, what are you saying about us? The Tourism Bureau cannot be excited by your purpose. And to make up for that, I want to say I'm very grateful for New Zealand. I love New Zealand. It's really good. But also, since getting stuck here, stuck seems like such a negative word, but I genuinely have had some of the best experiences of my life.

There's something about Americans that is so hospitable, and it's crazy to me, whether it's literally what we're doing now you've literally been cooking all day for this little podcast we do and that's crazy you've got much better things you could be doing with your time but thank you so much and you dax and monica and rob and you've literally sponsored my visa i'm here because of you so thank you so much what i am the most thankful for is not only this great group of people,

but specifically that stuffing that Michael made. I still haven't had a bite, but I just know every fiber of my being is grateful for it. We're all grateful to the chef. I doubt I'll ever have someone this famous for cooking, cooking for me anytime soon. I'm thankful that people have taken bites

and no one has spit anything out yet. So I appreciate that. But honestly, Bria brought everyone together. She sent me a text message. She sent it actually from the living room to the bedroom and asked if I would cook a Thanksgiving dinner in mid-October. So here we are. I feel fortunate

that I actually get to do what I love to do at home because I've done so much of it at work that I actually have the opportunity to get to do this for you guys. And so this for me is, it's not work at all. This is a home cooked meal for some friends, new ones, and I'm stoked you guys are here. So let's make a baby. Catch up with these guys. So hi, this is Kristen Bell. I'm very grateful to have been included. I'm grateful for the outstanding compliments I've received, even if they're superficial, tonight at this table. It's always exciting to be let into someone's home,

but particularly when you can see their passions up close and personal. And I'm even noticing that you're doling out like gravy when you see someone's turkey is dry, you're putting gravy on it. And just to like sincerely to witness that level of care and affection, it fills my heart so much because emotions are contagious and I'm grateful to be included.

And also very few people from my palate get the salt perfect. And every single bite of this has perfect sodium levels. So thank you so much. Okay, I'm going to go again. And with thanksgiving, I quietly turned the microphone off. Four different pies are being dished out, and I'm so full my brain's just turned off. That's why I turned my recording gear off. I don't want to work anymore. I don't need to document pies in a podcast about a turkey. BitDax insists. I refuse. I tell him I'm off the clock. I'm done. I'm cooked. I just want to eat some pie in peace. Bit backstage is a coup, grabbing my audio gear and microphone and turning it all back on again. David's off the clock.

He's announced that he's off the clock in his own episode. I don't know if this is a Kiwi thing when we already discussed the work ethic, but you're so fucked up on cake, pie, and wine that you've literally quit your duties. We said, David, what's your favorite pie? Oh, and Rob rightly so said, let's record that. And you said, I love the clock. Tell people what's on your plate. I've got four.

I did just refuse to work in front of literally my various bosses in the room. I've got four big slices of pie. I've never had this one before. I thought it was a cheesecake, but apparently it's key lime. This is pecan, a famous Thanksgiving treat that I've never had before. I think maybe it's a bit much. All this cake was a bit much. The whole night's been a bit much, but in a really good way.

And we all munch away on pie, which goes down into our stomachs to join the turkey and the stuffing and everything else. It's been a wonderful day with wonderful people. And I felt thankful. It does feel good though, doesn't it? All the sugar. You are the cutest when you're fucked up on sugar. It was a good day.

It was such a good day. The pre-Thanksgiving Thanksgiving. I stand by that cuteness observation. It was kind of unparalleled. Okay, except you missed the car ride home where his tummy started hurting. Of course it did. Cindy's tummy. Of course it did.

Cindy's tummy turned Of course it did. Cindy's tummy turned. I got sore. If your stomach had not hurt after that, you would need to see a doctor. Because you had four enormous pieces of pie and cake and what, 12 glasses of wine? When you say pie got dished out, you dished out the pie. You were in charge of slicing up the pie. And everyone said just a little tiny sliver and then you cut a quarter of the pie and put it on everyone's plate

we had bought pie to this house right like we'd all bought pie and i just wanted to feel like we were giving back so but i gave back too much to myself in the end and i got sick about ill didn't you eat even more in the morning i had more yeah more. Yeah, I took some in a box home. They box them up. And I had it for breakfast and I felt sick again. I think you thought you could start like a wave in an arena.

I think you wanted to give back but everyone's like, we're good. They already had their own two desserts which were great. And I think you were like, no, you got to receive something so I'll go first and eat all of it. And I was just standing there

waving the whole night on my own, essentially, and feeling ill. Oh my God. But no one had the puke on the ride home. No, but I did give him some Pepto. Of course you did. Which I always keep handy. Yeah, you pepped me up and that was good.

But then I ruined it in the morning by eating more and feeling sick all over again. You always have your little mobile medicine kit with you. We sort of had Thanksgiving on a different day. We pulled it forward by about a month. We did. And it was really good. Maybe that can be the new Thanksgiving day.

I actually think it was gapped out perfectly because had Thanksgiving come up two weeks later, I'd have been like, nah, it's too fresh in my memory how perfect that was. And it'll just be really lackluster. But there's been a little space so it was really really good stuffing man yeah i mean i have been thinking about that food ever since we had it it was so good thank you michael my goodness michael and brie were just really good

hosts and a lot of fun and my first thanksgiving was a, really good one. Welcome to America. I'm 100% American. It's over. For the moment.