Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Julianne Hough

Episode Date: August 12, 2024

Julianne Hough (Everything We Never Knew, Dancing with the Stars) is an actor, dancer, and choreographer. Julianne joins the Armchair Expert to discuss growing up in the Mormon church, going to live with a Russian family to dance when she was 9 years old, and her relationship with perfectionism. Julianne and Dax talk her ambitions to act and sing, her addictive loop, and her pursuit to be a country music singer. Julianne discusses her identity being tied to the shows she’s on, going through her divorce during covid, and why she wanted to open up about her struggles with loss and grief. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. This is Dax Shepard and I'm joined by Lily Padman. You know what's funny is we had a meeting and we had a meeting with some people and they thought our catchphrase was hello, hello, hello. It was so fun. It was on a deck. It was on a deck and I wondered, I was like, oh my God,

how long are we gonna go before he has to correct this? Well, I didn't want it to get too far down the path. I know, I could feel it though. I could feel it ramping up. And by the way, this. Well, I didn't want it to get too far down the path. I know, I could feel it though. It needed to be cleared up immediately. And by the way, this easiest mistake, because if you listen to the show and you're like, yeah, and then he says something three times, of course it's hello, hello, hello, hello.

It makes sense. Hello, hello, hello is hard to do. Hello, hello, hello. What if that's it? I'm gonna try it for real. Okay. Hello, hello, hello. No, no, that's just, okay it for real. Hello, hello, hello. No, no, that's just, okay, one more.

Hello, hello, hello. Welcome to Armchair X. We can make it work. That's pretty good, but it's a lot of, there's a lot of like breaths. Hello, hello. Yeah, if I had an ass. Welcome, welcome, welcome is very continental.

Oh my God. Nice word, continental. It's like my Lincoln Consonantor. Okay, okay. Julianne Hough. You ever heard of her? I have. I have. She's an actor and entrepreneur

and Emmy award-winning choreographer. To watch her dance is really. It is. It's really energizing. Yeah, and she has a wild backstory. She really does. Almost like an Olympic athlete. Very similar.

She of course was in performance, Footloose, Safe Haven, Rock of Ages, Dancing with the Stars, I mean, and then Burlesque, which we talk about. She has a new book out tomorrow called Everything We Never Knew. Check that out, it's out tomorrow. Hello, hello, hello. Please enjoy Julianne Hough. to learn more. He's an archer expert. He's an archer expert.

He's an archer expert. Hello, welcome. Hi, how are you? I wanted to say it's potentially a first where all three of us are in shorts. Oh! Short shorts. Can you remember a time? That is probably a first. It's summertime in shorts. Oh! Short shorts, can you remember a time? That is probably a first. It's summertime in LA.

It's summertime, that's right. I very rarely wear shorts. You're right. In my place of work. Well, you're doing all this construction, is that part of it? Yeah, I was out there swinging a hammer. You don't wear, oh no, you do.

Tell me. You don't wear tank tops a lot either. No. But you do wear tank tops, but you don't wear this kind of tank top, which is like a fashion top. A classy, yeah. It's a hold you look, I feel special.

It's like you're in wardrobe. In my formal tank top. You know what this is really a signal of? The comfort. The comfort. The comfort level. This is our last interview before we take a little vacation. Amazing.

And I'm feeling very summer vacation-y. Me too. Are you going anywhere fun? I actually just came from Spain. I dropped my mom off on like a spiritual retreat in the south of France. She did a Kundalini Mary Magdalene retreat. Tell us more about that.

There's a lot. That's a lot. I'll get into that. But the Spain thing, I just went, cause my mom was too scared to travel by herself, and I was like, you're not sabotaging this for yourself, mom. I'll fly with you.

Oh, that's nice. I'll drop you off and I'll fly back. And it was an excuse for me to go on a vacation. And you went by yourself to Spain? I did. Oh my God, what cities did you go to? I went to Madrid and then I went to Ibiza, and I always preface it with the non-party side.

I went to the north. Have you been to the party side? I haven't, no. Me either. I have no desire to go there. No FOMO? None, zero. Burning Man?

You've been to the North. I haven't been to Burning Man either. And any fear of missing out on it? No. Okay. No. We're similar. I really don't have that desire.

But I think if you go with the right people, it's one thing. I'm like, I don't want to feel trapped with everybody on drugs. That's going to scare me. I'm actually shocked you haven't gone as guests of Shawn and Nina's because they go. They love it. They love the party side. Nina's Burning Man.

Presumably they've also been to Ibiza. I don't know actually. They go everywhere. They do. We have so many. Overlappies? Yeah, so many. Nina and Shawn, obviously.

Yeah, who else? Cameron, Britt, Deon, Jed. The whole crew. Oh, Jed and Sean obviously yeah, who else Cameron Britt Deon Jed Crew Oh Jedidiah Jenkins. Yeah the best and also I have some fun cute stories about Kristen Oh you do from burlesque days burlesque, but even before burlesque She was the nicest person to me in Hollywood when I first moved out here First of all the least shocking thing I've ever heard in my life. The second I want to know the details. Details are, I think I had just turned 18

and I moved to LA and I hadn't been on Dancing with the Stars yet. So I was hustling, I was working central casting, I was going on auditions, I was living with six model roommates. They would wake up at like 3 p.m. and have Sour Patch Kids for breakfast. Breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Yeah, and have like $12,000 checks coming in the mail

and I'm like busting my ass every day. But I remember my model roommate who I just looked up to so much, she always wore sundresses and Uggs and it was like, she was fashion. It was like a thing. Her signature look. And so I got invited by this manager

who I can't even remember his name now and he was like, there's this us hot Hollywood't even remember his name now and he was like, there's this us hot Hollywood party. Do you want to come? I was like, great. So I wore her Uggs and her sundress. I'm five foot three and she's like six one and curled my hair as tight as possible. Because I also am from Utah and that big curly hair is the thing. And so I got to the event and everybody's decked out. I think it was actually Veronica Mars. It was like for her show and she was being honored or something that night.

Carmen Electra's dancing on the dance floor. First glimpse at all of it. Totally. I mean, this was 2006. There was no social media or anything. So my eyes were like, and this manager was walking me around and then he just was like, here, I'll be right back. So I was just standing there for probably 45 minutes.

Just like waiting for this guy to come back. Did the Uggs fit right? Were they too big? No, they were way too big. The dress was like, I was swimming in it. And then all of a sudden I hear, hey, are you okay? Do you want to come sit with us? No.

Nice girl from the cafeteria. Yeah, and so I turned around and I sat down with her and she just was like talking, she's like, you need to not trust this guy, this manager. The fact that he left you here is not okay. Cut to 2010, we're doing burlesque together and I told her that story. Did you dump the manager or?

Oh, immediately. Oh, wow. Well, when Kristen says something, you must listen. You do, and I'm a very impressionable person, so I was like, I should probably listen. Oh no, are you? Not anymore, I used to be. Okay, so I wanna rewind before that moment,

but also I just wanna spend this, well, really quick. I was just with my mom, we were at the Jazz Festival, we're having a very mother to son bonding moment, and she says, you know, Daxer, the thing I'm proudest of you, it's not any of these things you've accomplished or any money you've made. Anytime I meet someone that's worked with you,

they take so much time to tell me how nice you are. And I said, well, you're one of the few people in the world that knows exactly what it's like then to be married to Kristen Bell, which is every single place I go, someone pulls me aside to tell me a story just like that. That's awesome. It's aspirational.

Okay, you start off in Utah though. Yes. Of course, as you must already be prepared, I'm gonna be very interested in that. Get in there. Yeah, 45 minutes from Salt Lake-ish? Yeah, I kind of bopped around Salt Lake a little bit. It was Sandy, Utah, then down to Provo,

and then my dad moved up to Park City. Have they come from other states? Idaho. Idaho, Utah, Colorado. That's the very Mormon hemisphere. The Mormon belt, whatever we call that. Exactly, the Mormon belt. Bring them young country. Exactly.

What did they do for a living? I mean, I vaguely know what your father did. My dad was the president of a company called Nutraceutical for 25 years, vitamins, dietary supplements, but he also was into politics. President of the Republican Party. He was the chairman. Chairman in Utah.

Mm-hmm. And that was, I mean, when I was a baby, so I don't remember that era, and then he actually was getting back into it, I think, in the last couple of years. Cool time to re-enter. Which, yeah, that was like. Huh!

What do we do, what do we do? Yeah, it's bad enough how inundated we are with politics, but now we're gonna have a family member pursuing it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, but when I read that he was the chairperson of the Republican committee in Utah, I thought, is that a job or that's a volunteer situation? I think it was volunteer.

So he did well, clearly, if he was at this other company. Yeah, he did well, and the church was number one for him. So service to God, service to Mormonism in the church. Then he had this job and then he was really into politics so he volunteered there. His work was definitely his life. And was mom raised Mormon? Mom was raised Mormon as well. And dad was raised? Yeah, they were both raised Mormon. So multi-generational. You have your older brother? And then I have three older sisters. Oh wow. What's the age gaps of all these folks? Oldest sister's 11 years older than me.

And then nine years, six years, my brother's three years older, and then I'm the baby. So the oldest sister's like an aunt almost. I actually thought that I had two moms and that everybody did until I was about six. My mom, she was a beautiful housewife, stay at home mom, did the whole thing, very to the book with what you're supposed to do in the Mormon culture.

But she was sick when she was pregnant with me and she had a lot of her own mental health issues. And so my oldest sister took care of me a lot. The transition into peers is interesting. Have you made that leap? So interesting enough, I actually left home when I was nine. I know, and I wanted-

To live with a Russian family. Yes So let's say that I know and then to London so we'll obviously get there But my experience is like a kid from zero to nine I just wanted to be like my sister's my oldest sister was very much my mother figure My dad when he would be home I was the baby so he definitely gave me think, more attention than my other siblings. And then my brother, he was right above me, and so I wanted to be like one of the boys

and hang out with him. My deepest wound is belonging, so I just wanted to be a part of so much. All these older people. Yes, and I think because my mom was always sick, I was by myself a lot. And so to be able to be with my older sisters and everything, that was definitely what I wanted.

Yeah. You know what's sweet is you're telling all this. It reminds me of one time we had a therapist on. Gabor. Gabor Matej. I love, oh my gosh. He was asking Monica to say some stuff. And then at one point he said to her,

do you know you're smiling while you tell me all this stuff? Yeah, I was like, why are you laughing? And it was really- Is it funny? Like this profound moment. And I just already such a nice smile about this delivery. I can tell this is going to get so deep, so fast, and it's all going to be delivered with a smile.

With just a little like twinkle in the eye. Yeah, just like the slow fill up. Oh my God. We're all fill up. Oh my god. We're all so funny. I love it. Welcome. Welcome. This is great. Yeah, you're like, my mom was having a lot of mental health things and I just wanted to be like, and it's like

yeah, I guess. And Dan was around a lot. Well, is this going to connect to Mary Magdalene kids in Seattle or whatever? Exactly. It all comes around. It does. Okay, so you're a little girl, and when do you start dancing? I mean, coming out of the womb.

Hold on, I have one quick question. Your brother's obviously, I know very little about him, other than he's a highly successful dancer and choreographer. I'm assuming the worst. If I'm patriarch in the Mormon church and I'm a CEO of a company and my son wants to be a dancer, did that go okay? Was dad supportive of that?

It did. So my dad is the most adventurous, goofy, playful young kid at heart. And then there's this rub. There's always this contrast. And I think there's the pressure and then there's the soul. Almost maybe the relief of the pressure. Yeah. And so my whole family, on my mom's side, on my dad's side, they were

dancers. My grandparents both danced on both sides. Oh you guys say you did read that, all four of them. My dad wanted to meet girls in college and so went on to the ballroom team and that's where he met my mom. Oh wow. So he danced and they met through dancing. Yeah. Oh then I'm totally on the wrong base. It's interesting too actually Mormon culture and kids and stuff like that they're very into the arts. I think my brother got a lot of bullying from other kids in school, but we never experienced that in our family. Okay, so your brother's dancing presumably first

and the older sister's all dance. So you're gonna dance period. Yeah, so my oldest sister was a ballet dancer. We followed in her footsteps. We were all dancing, singing, and I don't know what my first class was because my mom had the big red van, all the kids piled in, and we would just go to lesson after lesson after lesson,

and I was too young to be in any of them, but I would watch, and so I was very visual, and I'd learn everything before I was ever even able to take the classes. Center Stage was the dance studio that kind of took us in as our home. It's very much that movie, too. Oh, really? I love that movie. There's a movie called Center Stage? Yes.

Oh, yeah. Dance, iconic, cult, classic. And is it vaguely based on that? Or there's many of those? No, it was very New York ballet. This was in Orem. It was our home. It was where we learned how to dance.

This is controversial as well, but being in Utah, there was only people that looked like me. And so the first black man that I ever saw was our dance teacher. He was a hip hop teacher and he was a ballroom dancer. And me and my brother were like, oh my gosh, like this guy completely. And obviously that also says a lot too,

putting him on a pedestal as well because he was so different. Rick Robinson is his name, Slick Rick. Slick Rick, beautiful. His only nickname to have when you're named Rick. He honestly was such an influential person in our lives and we lived there basically at that studio. And then we used to have these dance world champions

come in and teach maybe three or four times a year. And that was Corky and Shirley Ballas. They live in London and that's how we got connected. Okay, so they would visit, they also had a son, Jack? Mark. Mark. I've known Mark in the ballast since I was like eight. And how frequently are you going to church and does some of this dance training get you out

of some of the church you would have to go to? No, no way. Because church was every Sunday, three hours long, and then there were family home evening on Mondays and then there were special activities for the youth, but those were during the week and yes, we would have dance. Miss them for dance.

What's family home evening? It's actually a great concept. I love it. It's just every Monday night, it's game nights with the family. That's so great. There's so many of these amazing religious traditions that are so worth defending.

It's really just when humans and men end up having power that it gets dicey and then they're interpreting things and everyone, you know, whatever. Also, I wanna preface all this by saying I have many Mormon friends, I have many Mormon listeners, love it. But we also have friends who love the church and I just know for myself personally,

I only had to go on the weekends when I was with my grandparents and I could barely get through it. Well, it's also like silent. You go to church in the south and people are singing and clapping and a lot of amen Amen, you know, I'm an energy person. So I'm like, oh that feels so amazing in Mormon Church or LDS I should say maybe be more respectful. It is quiet. There's no clapping, but then you just hear the babies crying and it's like There's lots of kids and men and, girls and boys are separated, yeah? After the first hour.

I've been out of it for a while, so I don't want to represent anything. This is just your experience? This is my experience, yeah. But I think they've changed it now. I think it's only two hours now, and I think it's much more mixed. Okay, did you take it all lock stock?

Were you at all, like, we do a lot of stuff in this world or were you just completely unaware of it because you're so young? It is what it was. I didn't know any different. I loved the social aspect. That was kind of how I was known as a kid, going into church and going and sitting on everybody's lap

and giving everybody hugs at like three. Oh my God, you were probably so cute. I was that little, the greeter. Clearly I'm smiling as I'm saying that too. But definitely that's my nurturing attribute is I just want to make sure everybody's good. So that was very much- Sounds like a scene for perfectionism too.

Yeah, definitely. Well, by the way, that's very much ingrained in the religion. That's the part that seems oppressive and it's on everyone's shoulders, but it does seem a little overweighted on the women's shoulders. I feel like the women are really supposed to present. Well, it's like be perfect, but also you don't have a say.

You need to follow the rules and obey and do everything that you can to make sure that your family is the best and most perfect so that you can serve God and your husband because he's the one in charge of providing. What's the term? Yeah, deep exhale. I know.

There's a term for it. Tradwife? No, no, no, no, no, know. There's a term for it. Tradwife? No, no, no, no, no, no. There's a term for the dad in the house. They were using it a bunch under the banner. Not in the book, but in the show. The priesthood. Priesthood.

Yes. The dad goes by a priesthood in the house? Oh gosh, I'm gonna botch this because again, I left so much. And I don't wanna put you in a position where you feel like you're offending anyone. It's part of what it is. It's like the what it is. It's like the men hold the priesthood,

which is something I think they get ordained to do. Yeah, they're kind of like the priest of their house-ish. Their house, and then men in the church are the ones that are able to have the direct communication and talk to God. Have you seen this trend on Instagram of these women, they're usually wearing lingerie of some sort and they look gorgeous or perfect looking

and then their kid asks for a peanut butter and jelly and then they make the peanut butter and jelly from scratch. Do you know about this? No. Okay, it's like this whole thing. And these are sincere or this is a performative? At first you watch it and you think it's fake and it's real.

But a lot of these women are in the Mormon church and it's sort of a way to lure people into this. Lure isn't great, but how do I say this? Show the appeal of it. They make the peanut butter from peanuts. Like you see the whole thing. I'd like to go there. Do they do a gluten-free bread ever?

They make the bread from scratch. So if they know how to make it gluten-free, probably. Sourdough, let's go. It's really interesting. I want to see that. It is. Will you forward me the news? Yeah, I will. Okay, so mom and dad are married till nine at 10,

they get divorced. Yeah, like nine, 10. Correct me if I'm wrong, this is very unconventional. Yeah, my mom had an affair. She was told she should have her head chopped off. It was pretty aggressive that she was never gonna be with her family again. It was very hard for my mother.

And already having the previous 10 years of my life with my mom, she struggled with certain things. To then have that and then have the loss of the family, it was many, many, many years of my mom suffering. It's lucky she's alive. It is, and just the depression of feeling like she ruined her family and you know. And that she's bad. She's bad and she's an she's alive. It is, and just the depression of feeling like she ruined her family and you know. And that she's bad.

She's bad and she's an adulteress. She was probably treating whatever mental health issue she was struggling with. It was truly connection and loneliness. My dad was working and look, obviously with all the work we do, we don't blame, we see, we have an understanding, there's always a why, but it's everybody's experience.

And so that was my mom, so that was my dad. And is that one of the only ways out, I'd imagine? Like a clean out? You can get a divorce if your wife cheated on you, probably? I mean, you can get a divorce. It's just more of the image and the looking down on and the shame and the guilt that you're gonna receive, which that can be way more toxic to feel those things

than actually have like a, you're not allowed to. Okay, so they got divorced and now your life takes a really interesting and unique turn. You'll be one of the only people we've interviewed with this story. So you've met this family that comes into town to teach and I didn't know about the Russian family. So what happens first?

So the Russian family was first. I was dancing with somebody else and they spotted me and I went and lived in Florida for three months. I didn't go to school. And you were nine? Guys, this is so weird. Hold on a second. Hold on a second.

We have a perfect opportunity right now because Delta's nine. You mentioned us going like, okay, Delta, how fun are you? I kind of can weird. You can? A little bit. Were you like kind of precocious?

I had an X factor. I had like a sensuality about me as a kid. Just independent. I knew what I wanted. I was very direct and on it. It's funny, I don't know what I want now, but I did then. You know what I mean?

Or more so. And so I just was very clear and direct. I want this, I want this, and I'm gonna do this, and I'm gonna do that, and I was just an achiever. Well, I was gonna say, it makes sense that when you were younger, it was very clear to you because these were all things that ultimately would garner great approval from all the people

you wanted to know you were a good girl. And as you get older, you're like, whose approval am I going after now? I'm like, is this really only an hour and a half? I'm like, do we have eight hours? It's gonna be as long as you need it to be. Yeah, it becomes an interesting question once you remove that part of the motivation.

Totally. Well, and also with all my sisters, that's all what their dreams were. Was that ever really my dream or was it theirs? And did I live into theirs and achieve everything that they wanted? And wanted to be their peer and if you achieve this thing. And wanted to be their peer. Exactly.

And if you achieve this thing. And then even that's misguided, because actually it's harder to like you if you achieve the dream. Yeah, no shit. Ironically, the outcome's not even what you think it's going to be. Exactly. You needing to be a good girl, obviously, as you're saying,

the perfectionism is built into that world. But also, was it because your mom was sick? Were you feeling like you needed to... I could be good enough that mom would be happy. Yeah, because mom was struggling and I was the baby in the family, so I was at home a lot. And so if I could make mom happy or make sure she feels better,

I've been in survival since I was three. Not that I'm special and unique. Most people have a story like that in the sense that we are all surviving and then we have to relearn and delay all of that. Sounds like you've been to the Hoffman Institute. I actually haven't. This is great.

I'm ascribing all these things that our mutual friends do but you don't do them. I kinda like it. You're kind of punk rock. Punk rock, yeah. No, I do other things for sure. We'll discover them. Yeah, we will.

But back to Delta. So yes, I could see being misled by Delta's friendliness. You can drop her anywhere. Within an hour, she's in love with someone, crying that we're leaving. So I could be like, yeah, she'll go down to Florida. She'll be fine. But at the same time, and no, nine.

So you went to Florida, what was that like? And were you fully by yourself? Fully by myself, I lived with the Russian family. They also would come to the studio and train and then- You've met them five times? Yeah, a few times. Yeah, pretty much. And they said, just come with us?

I went there, I danced with their son. He was 12, I was nine. And then they had a three-year-old. And so they were at work all day. The son was at school and I took care of the three-year-old. Oh, you were an au pair. Pretty much. A nine-year-old au pair.

And I remember the first night coming from Utah as a Mormon, we went to the pool in the apartment complex and all of them got naked. Because they're Russian. I mean, I don't know. I guess. But they all just got naked and jumped in the pool like it was nothing. And that was the first time other than my mom or my sisters, I'd seen a male.

You saw the Patriarch. The Russian Patriarch. Yeah. The Russian bear. I don't think this is cause of Russian. I think it's not. No, I just like saying Russian a lot. Well, even just the ballroom world culture is very, dancer world is also very open.

So that was that experience. I was very shocked at the beginning. Were you scared? For sure, but again, I was like, I have this opportunity and I need to do it great. That happened for three months, the training. Do you have a nickname? I have a lot.

Is there one that you would allow me to call you? I don't know. Because your name is very long. Jules is probably the most common. Okay, great. Juju, niece and nephew. I think you have to earn it a little more. I could sense that.

Yeah, it didn't go well. But I was just thinking for the ease of conversing, your name is so formal to me. And that's my own hang up. You know what's funny actually about that? Julianne was always my name growing up and then I changed it to Jules. My Instagram is Jules,

cause I was like, I need to not be so formal, right? In the last couple of years, I'm like, I like Julianne. I kind of want Julianne again. I'll stick with Julianne. I don't know. That's your name. Yeah. It's okay.

But you can call me Jules. No, I'm going to call with Julianne. I don't know, that's your name. Yeah. It's okay, yeah. But you can call me Jules. No, I'm gonna call you Julianne. I just guilted you into calling me Julianne. When I imagine being nine and being stuck in a stranger's house raising a three-year-old, I'm trying to think what coping mechanisms would pop up and I feel like disassociating would be like.

A thousand percent. Yeah, would you kind of just be like watching your body move through this environment, but being off in some other. Yes, but dance was my superpower. It was the thing that I could connect my body to. And how many hours a day? Five o'clock, I would get picked up,

and then I would train until like nine or 10. So then you were in your happy place, and then you just had to get through that next day. Was the goal for you and the son to be dance partners? Yeah, and we were. And that was only like three months. It wasn't like a big stint. And then I came back.

We skipped over a lot. You asked your parents, can I go? And they were like, sure. I'm still trying to figure out how this happened. Oh, I ended up in. Yeah. They were just like, I guess it's fine. In a Tolstoy novel for three months.

I guess so. My parents were going through a lot. They were divorcing. Did dad keep the house or did mom? They got rid of the house. We ended up getting two apartment complexes next door to each other across the hall. I lived with my mom and my sister, Katherine,

and then my dad and my brother and my sister, Marabeth lived together, and then my oldest sister was married already. Okay, so they were going through a lot, so they were kind of like, yeah, get out of here. I don't think it was that. I think I was very passionate, and I wanted those kinds of things,

and they were going through a lot, so maybe this is a good opportunity for us to deal with our shit. Well, if I'm them, I'm like, that'd be a great distraction. I have lots of stuff going on in my life right now, and I don't have kids, and I'm like, how on earth do people do this? Yeah. It's a lot, and you're responsible for so many different people. I want that eventually kids and I'm like, how on earth do people do this? It's a lot and you're responsible

for so many different people. I want that eventually but I'm like, man, that's a lot. You have to subtract other things in your life so that you can be present and they just didn't have that space. So you go home, how long are you home before the next? I moved to Vegas with my mom for a few months, got kicked out.

By her or you and mom got booted from a residence? No, no, no. By my mom and my stepdad. I went and lived with my dad for a little bit. Yeah, that's the whole. Yeah. If I drank and you drank, one time we'd be drinking and I'd hear that story.

Yeah, Britt says we're gonna get wine soon and so I'll get to hear it. For sure, for sure. And then you need five more days. There's a good. So mom married the guy she had an affair with? Yeah. Okay.

So I then lived with my dad for a little while, and then my brother actually went to London first, and he was there for three months beforehand, and he was dancing with a girl out there, and then living with the Ballaces, best friends with Mark, and then Mark's dance partner got too tall for him, and my brother was like, well, why don't you dance with my sister?

This is such a fascinating world that the parents, they have kids living at their house so the kid can have a dance partner. I know. It's very interesting. Totally foreign world to me. And are you pumped for that? So much so.

Cause you're gonna be with Derek. Cause if you were in Florida with your brother, it would have been a totally different experience. Maybe, yeah. It was only supposed to be for three months. We were gonna go until the big competition in Blackpool, which was like March and I went in January It was supposed to be three months and we were supposed to go home and I ended up staying for five years. Whoa years

In London in London, how frequently were you coming back to Utah to see your family three times a year So we would come spring break the summer summer break, and then winter break. I'm almost shocked you don't have an English accent. I did. At that age, you would pick it up so quick. Were you going to school there? Yeah, I went to performing arts school there. So fake school?

Yeah, oh no, we literally learned nothing. I hope not. It was a full vocational school. I mean, honestly too, it was kind of brilliant because we would train all night when we would get home from school and compete on the weekends and then come into school and be exhausted.

I would have fake tan up to my face and then like red nails. And the first half of the day was all the academics. And so I would just sleep. Everybody would just do my homework for me. And like by the time lunchtime came, I was awake and I did all the singing and dancing and performing. And track the joy for me out of 10, we'll say.

10 is full elation doing this. When it started, you loved it. Does it stay? Do you love? No. When does it change? 10 to 15 are super influential years. Puberty happens. And then working so hard.

I had a scholarship to be at my school. My parents didn't make a lot of money. My dad was successful, but through the divorce, he also had lots of stuff. He had to sell his stock and then lost all of his money in the company that he had worked so hard for. There was all sorts of stuff. I got a dress sponsor.

That was kind of strange. I would go and dance for that person. There's a lot of- There's a few people in this, I have not. Space. I don't like the guy that got naked in front of a nine-year-old girl. That wasn't his daughter.

Yes. That's really bad. It's not ideal. I know we blew past- But I do have to grant them, Germans are naked in the park, so I don't wanna assume- It could be a cultural thing. I was in Spain just recently,

I was like, free the nips. There's just a cultural thing there. Everyone's got their shirt on. Have you been to a German park? That's the most amazing thing. No. In the middle of the city and there'll be a whole family. They're naked dick balls the whole night. Yeah.

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["The Best of Me"] Okay, so the enjoyment level. Obviously I was so excited to go. I wanted to be the best and I was competing and I went from being talented but not refined to being the best. I was the youngest and only American to win everything that I did. I loved winning. Oh yeah.

It was like, it was everything. You're dedicated your entire life in your social life, in your family life. You better win because that's what all this is about. Yeah, completely. And if I didn't, then repercussions. And some self-flagellation and hatred. It's funny, not so much even internally. It was external.

If I didn't do the best, then I definitely heard about it. From your parents or from the coachings? Oh, got it. That was their job. Yeah. You're not going to comment on this, because it. Yeah. That was their job. Yeah. Yeah. You're not going to comment on this because you have relationships, but also imagine if your coaches are your partner's parents, I imagine you're going to get more notes than

the kid. And they're taking care of you. Yeah. You don't have to say anything about that, but I can just see that that's kind of a dicey. This is all complicated. You want neutral coaching. It's all very complicated. They were like my parents.

Yeah. This is kind of a dicey. This is all complicated. You want neutral coaching, I think. It's all very complicated. They were like my parents. Yeah. And I went from having one set of parents who were very specific in one way to a whole set of other parents that were very specific in another way and complete opposites. And so it was very confusing. From 10 to 15, I changed my personality. I was that little nurture greeter to super dark, do not speak, just get on with it. Really?

Yeah. And then of course you're going through puberty and hormonal and what am I supposed to do, what am I allowed to do, you know, who am I? And so at 15, that was when I decided I need to go home. I think I want to be more like my family, but I am taking on all of the attributes of this family. Interesting.

And I knew I wanted to do more. Now, I also have this stereotype of dancers in general. So I'm trying to parse out what is the culture shock of England, what is the culture shock of the ballaces being your parents, but also the dancing gets so regimented and so militaristic, there's so much pain you're performing through. When you're in it, you don't know that.

Right, but it does seem to have this kind of ubiquitous effect on dancers where they do get more and more serious and more kind of what you're describing towards the end. Well, and also obsession with perfection. Like good soldier. Well, disciplined. Perfect as a kid, Mormon church, it just adds to that. The discipline of a dancer, we're athletes,

but we're also artistic athletes, and so you have to. Subjective and objective. Yes, exactly, and so then you're just trying to like do the best you can, and the obsession with perfection is wild, I mean, we sit in front of a mirror and perfect our body. That is literally a dancer's life. And then you get other people judging, body, dancing,

ability, magnetism, all the different things. So if you can win, then you're good enough, I guess. Oh. With the wink. You pulled the plug. Which by the way, let me tell you the culture shock really cause I know we're getting heavy, but the funny part was I was so sad when I went to London and I was disappointed

that there were not horse-drawn carriages and people in big dresses. And the, you know. Wasn't the 1800s. Exactly. That's what I thought London was. Elizabethan London. I was like, wait, people are just normal here and have cars, I'm so sad.

They're just more emotionally repressed than even us in Utah, which is saying a lot. Oh man. So when you got home, then what was that transition like? It's crazy you're not schizophrenic. Insane. I actually am. I do a lot of work to not be. Wait, really quick, before we leave England,

did you have a boyfriend ever in England? No, never. No time for that. Friends? My best friend on the planet, she's still my best friend to today. We were actually too young to be at our school. We were both 10.

And so we had to repeat the first year. Her name is Maude. Oh, perfect name. She was like, my name's Maude. And I was like, Maude? And she's like, no, Maude. And I was like, Maude? And she was like, no, Maude.

And so I still to this day call her Maude. Yeah, thank God. She's my bestie. Were you ever running around London with her? Did you have fun? Oh, god damn it, Julianne. Was she also a dancer? Dancer, singer, actor.

So she ended up being on Vikings for a long time. I thought you were about to say Vicodin. She ended up being on Vicodin. I thought you were about to say she ended up being Maude Apatow. I know, right? Can you imagine? But yeah, she was on Vikings, she was an actress,

and then she ended up leaving the business, and she's a theta healer, meditation teacher, yoga instructor. Dealing with the same experience. Exactly. When you go back to Utah, do you ever go to a public school? Yes, so I went to Park City High School,

which was horrific. It was also the rich kids in Park City and it was an experience for sure. I was kind of now the exotic one because I had left England and I had a short pixie cut hairdo. My whole existence from 10 to 15 was overtly sexualized. Like, I just had this exuberance about me. And it was before Mean Girls came out,

and I remember I ate lunch in the bathroom. I got invited to parties that were abandoned houses. I went on a choir trip and came back, and there was a rumor that I gave everybody blowjobs. The guys that I thought were my friends would be like, hey, do you want to go out into the parking lot? I'm like, wait, what? I'm so confused.

And I was the biggest prude because I didn't do anything. No social life at all. No, I exuded that, but I'd never done anything. It was very confusing. Yeah, we've actually had a few guests that have had this trajectory. And then, so it's really fascinating to see what the result is.

The two generic paradigms I would suggest is there are these kids who are in the Disney world and their sexuality was very much oppressed. And when they break free, they get overtly sexual. And then like Natalie Portman, who was very early sexualized and objectified, she then reclaimed it by going the other way. And even now, we'll say in the interview,

I almost regret what a. Flip flop. Yes, like I'm actually now learning to be sexual again as an adult without any of the baggage. Completely. So over sexualized on stage in public and then your reaction was to be very prude. If we can use, do we use that word?

Yeah, prude, I don't know. It's hard to keep up with the list. You weren't sexual. It's proof shaming a thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so when you were on stage during that 10 to 15 time and it was very sexualized, did you feel it in your body or was it just a performance? No, it was total freedom.

No, it wasn't conscious. It was just freedom. It's how I moved my body. Having a partner was a little different. You had to connect, but obviously I was super safe. That was my dance partner. I can understand you not getting aroused during that, but man, how's Mark handling that?

He's being professional. Well, I'm just impressed. Can I tip my hat if he's being professional? It's like tons of romantic dancing over and over again as a teenager. We are teenagers, yeah. Yeah. Well, that world is just interesting, too. It's all political.

It's like other dance partners would sleep with that partner so that they could dance together, and this person would like go sleep with this judge. It's all political. It's like other dance partners would sleep with that partner so that they could dance together and this person would like go sleep with this judge. It's very, very risque. Oh my Lord. I know it's a whole world. Okay. It's a follow-up question on Monica's.

It also reminds me of Pamela Anderson, a lot of trauma, shut down her sexuality, but then when got invited out to LA and started doing photo shoots, clicked into a character, and could own it while she was in that character and enjoy it. When you were in that zone, could you be present in it and enjoy it and then just click out of it? Like is it good to feel your powers? A hundred percent. When I'm thinking about now, like when I came out to LA and got onto Dancing with the Stars,

a little dissociative. I didn't even know what was happening. I just did. It's so funny, my first dance partner was Apollo Ono and everybody was like, oh my gosh, are they dating? I was like, never even thought about it. Right. But I bet Apollo did.

I don't think so. Stop putting this on these men. They're being professional. I know you can't relate. I cannot relate. I can't, just simply can't relate. I cannot relate. I simply can't relate. Oh my God. Okay, so high school was a beat down.

Yeah, it was. Moved back to Vegas, went to school there, got kicked out again. Did Mom stay with the gentleman? Yeah. Still. I like that. Yeah, I got to kind of applaud that. That's generally not the trajectory.

Okay, so you went to Vegas. Yeah, you did some more training in Vegas as well, right? Yeah, so I went to charter school, also didn't learn anything, and did that for a little bit. And I was a theater major there, so I was like really wanting to act, and I was like, I don't wanna dance anymore. So I quit, I taught, and I would earn money, and then I would save money, and like I knew

I was gonna go to LA, and I wanted to act and sing. Right, because I had a friend who was on this trajectory to some degree back in Michigan, and boy, if you think the options are narrow for an actor, for a dancer, they're so narrow to make a living. Was any of that on your mind? I feel almost a little grateful for my ignorance because I just always knew I would figure it out.

I never thought, oh, you can't have a career as a dancer. I knew if I stayed in London, my life would only be ballroom dancing, and I knew I didn't want that. But again, going back to that whole, is this really even my dream? My third sister wanted to be an actress. She was obsessed with Goldie Hawn.

She was like the comedian in our family. She wanted to be that. My second sister wanted to be a country music star. My third sister wanted to be a Broadway My second sister wanted to be a country music star. My third sister wanted to be a Broadway star. She wanted to write a thriller. Yeah. Pretty much. Because then this one started to seem calculated.

So I went to LA, I was on Dancing with the Stars, I had a country career, I've been on Broadway, I've done movies, I just kind of did all their dreams. You've adopted all their dreams. When I did country music, I did it because my sister wanted it. I've been a performer my whole life, but I haven't been an artist.

Only in the last few years I've had to find that artistry, because I've just been a performer. And I'm a great performer, I can whip it out anywhere, and anything I try I can pretty much do to a degree and get away with it, but it's all outward. I think you and Kristin would have a very great conversation. I was just thinking that. I was just thinking that. But I don't know if that's nice. I mean, not nice, but I don't know if we should say that.

No, I think she would say like she... I love that I'm a performer too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's so rare to be like you two. I call my wife acting AI. If you direct her, it's impossible. She does the exact same movement, so continuity's perfect, so you can cut between any angle you ever got of her. She's passable every take.

And yeah, there's a level of professionalism and perfectionism that she has that is very rare. And it's amazing for other people to work with because we nail it every time. Yes, so dependable. When I had days of directing where I knew she was in all day long, I'm like, well, this will be an easy day. You can throw anything at her.

But I think, yeah, she's, I assume, like you, she's listening to someone sing and she's like, can I do that? So it's a lot of mimicry. It's a very specific thing. And I think as she got into her career, like, oh, well, what do I want to do? What story am I trying to tell?

All these things. I think she'll be fine with that. We'll see. Well, guys, I just had this like revelation of my favorite movies the other day. Somebody asked me and I was like, what are my favorite movies? And then I was like, this is telling.

What are they? You ready? Yeah. Memoirs of a Geisha. Oh, wow. The Green Mile, Tina Turner, What's Love Got to Do With It. Incarceration's a theme right now.

And like being the perfect thing, it's not pretty women like everybody else. It's telling, yeah, and mine too are like naughty boys trying to get away with something. Or all the movies that I was in was always a girl running away at the beginning of the movie. Or on a train, on a bike, on a bus. Oh, that's funny.

Trying to escape. So you make it through high school. Do you graduate? I do graduate, not sure how. I want to take two minutes to talk about, I know that your brother's such a huge part of your story, or at least from the outside, it would appear so. Is he the closest thing you have to stability and safety?

Definitely. But what was interesting about our time in London is we had very different experiences. We both kind of knew, but didn't talk about it. Sweep everything under the rug, everybody's just fine, let's just keep going kind of mentality. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And so I came to LA first and was on Dance With The Stars

and then Derek came the second season that I was on and Mark as well. Also we glazed over it, but Mark and Derek and Julianne had a group called TB1G. TB1G. You can figure that out, right? I don't want to think about it. Two boys, one girl.

Oh, wow, wow. That was before two girls, one cup. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It does a little bit, harking, unfortunately. Oh, God. Oh, also one thing. It does a little bit, harking, unfortunately. Oh, God. Oh, also one thing I had to bring up that I totally miss is when you were 13, you were in Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone.

I have to say that for Monica. I was 11. I was 11. First movie. So, you're having a complicated time there, but are you so pumped to end up in Terence Posner? That was also a beautiful escape. Our whole school got the job

because they needed extras from stage schools. I was Gryffindor, by the way. Hell yeah. Obviously Derek was Ravenclaw, Mark was Hufflepuff. It was amazing. I definitely stole a scarf and got caught. Are you Gryffindor in real life? Yes, I read all the books.

In real life? Yeah, in real life. I read all the books. I was so obsessed when this happened. I was like, oh my gosh. And like, I've told this story a hundred times. I've talked to Daniel Radcliffe about this. I had a crush on him, like whatever.

And I remember I took, so Quirky Ballas used to have this collection of Beanie Babies. And I remember I took, clearly I'm a stealer. I took the Valentino. Oh, the one with the heart? The one with the heart. I know it. The white one. And I wrote Daniel Radcliffe a stealer. I took the Valentino. Oh, the one with the heart? The one with the heart. I know it. The white one, and I wrote Daniel Radcliffe a love note

and I gave it to him for Valentine's Day. No. Yeah, actually, I gave it to his PA. I don't know if he ever got it. I wonder how many Terrence received on that Valentine's Day. He had so many beanie babies. His old trailer was so. He's the kindest human.

And a real artist. Yeah, really great. So when you go to LA, are you 18? 18. You're not here terribly long before you get on Dancing with the Stars? Yeah, I moved literally a week after my 18th birthday in July

and basically just doing the central casting jobs and just trying to make money. Meeting Kristen at events. Yeah. And then in, I think it was like November, December, the Dancing with the Stars tour came around and they wanted background dancers And so I was like well This is working out perfect because I can't pay my rent anymore and I need to do something

So I hadn't really danced. I was gonna say did you feel rusty? Not really now I'm rusty, but I picked it right back up And so I got on the tour and while I was on the tour Joey McIntyre was on the tour and his dance partner, Kim Johnson, got injured within the first few shows. This is what you're praying for. It's an understudy. You always get on an injury.

And so I ended up filling in for Kim and was doing all the background dancing and company dancing too. So I was popping, dancing with the stars, producers came to the show and they were like, we want you to be on the show. And I said no because I wanted to act and I wanted to sing. And I was like, I don't stars, producers came to the show and they were like, we want you to be on the show. And I said no, because I wanted to act and I wanted to sing.

And I was like, I don't want to be on a reality show. I want to be taken seriously. Oh, I had the same thing. And so a few days later, Irving Azov's company had another subdivision called frontline management and they did a bunch of touring and they were producing the tour. Somebody also said that I sang. And so I sang for Irving and Jared Paul at like a venue in Nashville.

And I said I wanted to sing and they said, great, what do you want to do? And I was like, country music. Right. Oh. Just throwing a dart at the. Exactly. Okay.

They signed me, did not know. I literally was like, cool. And then I called my dad. I was like, what's a manager? What are they going to do? I don't know. And then Jared convinced me to do Dancing with the Stars. He was like, you need to do this.

There's 20 million viewers a week watching this show because that was before streaming or social media or anything. It was a five year contract. And I was like, I'm not signing a contract for five years. That's 10 seasons and five years. I was like, this isn't what I wanna do. I said, I'm gonna get out of this contract in two and a half years. I said that to the producers, Conrad Green, I was like, this isn't what I want to do. I said, I'm going to get out of this contract

in two and a half years. I said that to the producers, Conrad Green, I love him. He's now the producer on the show that I'm back on. He's like, okay, little girl. In two and a half years when I was on the show, I got out of the contract. No way. Wow. How did you get out of the contract?

There was a California clause or something, whatever that was, it was like, if somebody doesn't want to be a part of something anymore, you can let them out. Oh my God. They changed all of the contracts after that and nobody can get out of them now. Ah.

Doing my first couple seasons, I won both of them. Did you enjoy that? Of course I did. It was novelty, because like, the first of anything. I love winning and also, I was so in the competitive zone for that season that the minute it was done and I won and I actually released a single, I went to the airport and everybody knew me.

And so it was scary. People would grab me and be like, oh my gosh, come meet my family. I was like, what's happening? But it also felt like love. Yeah, we're getting a lot of approval. And I was like, oh, this is amazing. You're greeting everyone as they enter church basically. Yeah, exactly. Can I lot of approval. And I was like, oh, this is amazing. Yeah, you're greeting everyone as they enter church,

basically, everywhere you go. Can I ask you a hard question? Sure. Did you ever feel, when you were winning, were you just like, I'm amazing? Like, did you get high on yourself a little bit during that time? I hope so. I don't see how you could not, personally.

Actually, no. I didn't think the opposite. I was just elated with joy when it would happen. Okay, so your ego was managed. Managed or just unaware of it. And I was not social. Yeah, do we have a boyfriend yet? So going back, I ended up dating and engaged actually

to this guy named Zach Wilson. That you met at the charter school? No, so I met him when I was like six years old at center stage. He was a dancer, singer. He was six years older than me, but he had gone on a Mormon mission when I was in high school,

and right as I was finishing high school, like in May, he came back, and we started dating May to July, and then I moved to LA. We ended up getting engaged in December right before I went on the Dancer of the Stars Tour. How into FDLS are you at this, I didn't say that right. LDS.

LDS, yeah. Are you still ascribing to, I've gotta get married before I have sex and all that. Okay, so when I was in London, we didn't go to church at all. When I moved back, in order to fit in in Utah, you needed to be Mormon, go to seminary, have friends,

because that was the community. Of course. I just fell back into it, but I wasn't actively committed to it. I just kind of did whatever I needed to do, and malleable to what I needed to be for the environment. Well, because the generic thought I have is, if you're all in on that, and I'm 18 or 19,

and I'm in love with someone, I'm pretty motivated and incentivized to get married. I wasn't motivated by sex. It was motivated for me, and obviously the cliche and stereotype of a woman is to feel safe. And so I think that on top of just my childhood in general, safety, safety, safety, and this person feels stable, and consciously I'm not thinking that,

but he was definitely a very stable, beautiful person. Put together. And how long did that last? It lasted a few months, and then I was like, I know, I don't wanna live in Utah and have kids. And he ended up marrying my best friend when I was six years old, and they have four kids. They're happy as hell.

Yeah, that's the life that he wanted, but also that we could have had. And honestly, maybe there would have been a lot more stability or space to create that. You found the gumption to break it off. That was probably hard as hell. No. You're a very interesting mix of people pleaser

and yet very assertive and advocate for yourselves. I'm not gonna do this show. I'm gonna get out in two and a half years. I can break off this engagement. At 18, I had a very like, fuck you, watch me attitude. And that is what drove me from 15 to 25. I'm driving the boat now. But that was very empty,

because I would finish something and then I'd be like, onto the next thing, onto the next thing, never celebrate anything. And when I look at my life, I'm like, holy shit, I have done so many things. And I'm so proud of myself, but also I had so much freaking gumption. Do you feel like you missed most of the stuff you've done? Totally.

And then when I started my healing journey and process and everything, I lost all motivation. And I was like, oh my God. Because I wasn't driven to prove myself to anybody else because they still had the power. And so as that happened and switched, I was like, I don't know what I want to do.

And I'm like, man, I wish I was 18 and that convicted little shit. I was so sassy and on it, but completely unaware of anything around me. Okay, so 2007 you joined Dancing with the Stars. You win season four with Apollo. You win season five with Helio. Helio Castroneves.

A race car driver. Season six you get with Adam Carolla. That doesn't end well. No, but it actually did because we got kicked off and then I was about to release my debut album. Timing was great. I was gonna ask that, when you get kicked off the show or you get eliminated, not kicked off,

do you have to hang around and watch all the other performances? It's different now, but that season, you stop getting paid when you got kicked off. And then if they wanted you back on, it was like sag, rate, or whatever after. If they came and did a performance. And so because they knew I was coming out with a record I just didn't ever go back that season. Okay, so

The record comes out it charts and everything. It's very promising. Yeah, it was the number one album It was on the top 100 Billboard at number three. I went on tour with Brad Paisley. He's a sweet motherfucker Yeah, Brad and Kimberly. They're amazing. Yeah,, I spent a couple days with them once at someone's house, and I thought he was about as nice as they come. They're so good. So again, I'm wondering if I'm you, how I'm figuring out what the fuck I'm doing in life. I'm like winning on this show, 20 million people know me,

I'm famous in the airport, now I have a country album, is that what I'm doing? Moved to Nashville, I was touring, I did the record. I used to describe it as the stars just felt like they were aligned. Life was working in my favor and I thought I was just like flowing. Everything felt very easy. I didn't feel challenged or pushed until the country career. That is my greatest regret.

It is? What is? Yeah. That you didn't like... Finish. Oh. Okay. So what happened? If I'm not winning and number one, I'm losing.

And so of course, I was totally comparing myself to none other than Taylor Swift. Oh my God. Oh boy. Not an easy feat. Me and Jordan's teammate. She was coming up right before me, and then it was like Carrie Underwood,

and then Kelly Pickler and I would kind of battle for third spot. She's great. She's amazing, I love her. Okay, Laura. I had this beast inside of me that was like, if I'm not number one, I'm losing. Really quick, I don't wanna do it,

or it's too embarrassing. It's embarrassing, and then also because I didn't, I know exactly, you guys, this is not my mindset today. Let me just preface. But yeah, there's like, there's an audience of imaginary people that you're basing all decisions on, like embarrassment in front of this theoretical group. Because no one in your life is like,

oh, you're only the third biggest country star. And people are like blown away. Completely. But also Taylor at that point, what era? It was her first album. Don't get sidetracked, Monica. It was her first album. Oh, because thisetracked, Monica. It was her first album. Oh, because this is important,

because now, if you said I was competing with Taylor Swift, you do sound crazy. Insanity. But her debut album and stuff, no one knew who she was going to end up being. But yeah, so that was that era, and I didn't have any guidance around me, too. Yes, my manager was there, but I shifted management to somebody who was more country.

Nobody was challenging and really looking out for me. I was the one making the decisions, which at 19, just because I sounded like I knew what I was talking about, I had no clue. This is a through line. But would you, I'm that way too, but I would take some personal responsibility, and that is that I wasn't availing myself to any guidance.

I wanted you to believe I belonged there so much that to admit I could use some help would be exposing myself as not belonging there. When I think about how I could have done things differently, I think it was more, I wanted the seven layer cake, but I was only at number two, and I wanted what was at the top. I wanted it immediately.

And so if it wasn't happening, I would say, I think I'm done with this. I don't want to do this anymore. And they would listen versus, are you sure? Let's talk about why. And then with parents or family, I didn't engage with them. I didn't bring them along the journey. I just did what I did.

There was no support system that was like, you're a human, let's talk through this, versus me being like, I know what I'm talking about, I don't wanna do this anymore. Was there any part of you that was punishing your family? Cause I could imagine myself being like, you guys sent me away and I wasn't a priority and look at me.

I didn't feel that way until 25. I didn't even really remember my childhood from zero to 10. I was proving myself from 10 to 15, those people. I almost got a little, not brainwashed, but a little brainwashed into thinking that my family was less than. It was more that I didn't have the respect that I wanted their opinions,

which is so heartbreaking for me to even say because that is disgusting on so many levels, but that was the truth at the time. I didn't respect what they would tell me. Well, I say one of my biggest sources of shame is that I wanted a dad to say, good job, son, you did it, but I wanted to respect that person

so that that compliment really meant something. That's so shameful for me to go like, I didn't respect my dad enough that even if he gave it to me, I wouldn't have really wanted it. I had this big revelation at like 27, that I was just like my mom. And I fell in love with my mom. Oh, yeah.

That's beautiful. I'm having that too with my dad, but he's not there for me to do it. Yeah, yeah, so I'm glad you're having yours while she's still here. I'm fucking a carbon copy, actually. Yep, me too. Mom.

So the country career gets cut short. I remember actually, I had one embarrassing, shameful moment that I got a little too drunk, and I was on stage and I fell off the stage. Nobody in the audience saw, but my band mates did. And my bass player, she came back on the bus and she was like, you're fucking disgusting. She's like, the fact that you have this opportunity

and you're just gonna get drunk and any of us would wanna be on this trajectory that you're on and you don't write your own music. She went off. Oliver Envy came out at once. And I was like, she's right. And I was dating Ryan Seacrest at the time, which was a whole other experience because he was in radio.

Even much later. It was like 19 to 21, 22 that I did the music and I started dating him at 21. He was doing his radio at the time making this really big deal with iHeart Radio. Country Radio was also like, they make $40,000 a year and he's about to make a $60 million deal and they hate him. was also like they make $40,000 a year and he's about to make a $60 million deal and they hate him. I'm now promoting my second record that I'm writing and there was a photo of me,

I was like swan diving off of the front of the yacht. Just like a combustion of like, you're Hollywood, you're dating Ryan, you're writing your music. You're kind of ruining your country street cred. CMT banned my music video because it was too racy. Like there was like a whole thing. And then kind of ruining your country street cred. CMT banned my music video because it was too racy. Oh, wow. There was like a whole thing.

And then that happened and I was like, victim, I can't do this, I'm embarrassed. And then I got to move away from it. So instead of actually quitting, I never quit. I just pivoted and I went into movies and that's when I did Burlesque. Really quick, where are we at with drinking at that age? Is drinking a great source of relief?

My first drink was at 11. It was Bailey's Irish Cream. Oh, beautiful. Great taste. There was one time I got really drunk. The first time and last time I was ever allowed people over at my house in London. Mark and Derek helped me out.

They were very sweet. And kids drink in England. Yeah, and I was like 14. And then I didn't drink. And then when I started doing country music, everybody drinks on tour. So then I would drink a little bit. And the reason I fell off the stage at that show,

we were in Napa and we had done a wine tour that day. And then like always, we would do a shot before we go on. And it just mixed wrong. And I just got really. Hadn't eaten enough maybe. Totally. The stars aligned in that moment too. And then boom, it wasn't a source of. It wasn't anything you were wrestling too and then boom it wasn't a source of it wasn't anything you were wrestling

No, it wasn't but when I started the movies I Ended up figuring this out like a few years ago But my addictive loop Nicorette gum was part of it alcohol was part of it diet pills was a part of it And then online shopping the loop and it would be like a long period of time And then it got shorter and shorter and shorter and shorter and shorter over like a span of 12 years. Meaning the periods between indulgence. And now you're just like clicking

from one little dopamine fix to another? Totally, it was interesting. I always felt like it's like a million piece puzzle and I can't figure out, like I don't know why I do this. And then all of a sudden it was like, boom, here's the 10 pieces of the puzzle and they all fit. This is the loop. That was the biggest sense of relief, not shame.

It was like, oh my God, thank God I figured this out because that had so much control over me. And I got it in a way where it was more binging versus nonstop so I could hide that so easily. And justify it. And justify it, my behavior wasn't bad. I met you on the set of Burlesque. That was a wild, I think enough time has passed

to talk about what a wild. You were dating her at that point? We would have been together for three years, 2010. Although you filmed it in 2009. So there was this incredibly interesting dynamic. We won't name names, but there was a director and a studio head and they were dating. For like 20 years.

I would go to the set and I was like, I've never seen anything like this. Sometimes the studio execs directing, sometimes the directors directing, sometimes they're in a very vocal fight out loud. Was that your first movie that you were there for run a picture? And were you thinking this is standard show business?

Was any of that seeming bizarre to you? No, that's what's weird. I was like, oh, okay. It's hostile, it's toxic, awesome. It's crazy. I get it. It was strange, but it was competitive as well. So I thrived in it. What was competitive about it?

Dancing, obviously, was the core element of this movie. That set was wild. There was a lot of different egos and dynamics, but that was your first experience. So you were like, yeah, okay. Yeah, I guess this is how it is. And I was just very much a head down, do my job, get the work done, be the best that I can be,

and don't get involved. That was my way. It was dating Seacrest. I would imagine it would be so exciting and so privileged and so romantic. And then also I would feel like would be so exciting and so privileged and so romantic and then also I would feel like I was losing myself to all of that. That was exactly the dynamic. The rug was swept up from underneath me

and I was just flying and I was experiencing things that I didn't even know existed. You're meeting fantastic person after fantastic person. But then I had this insecurity that I was like, I don't ever want anybody to think that I'm with him for this reason. And so I then started playing smaller. You didn't want to seem like you were out there

to try to get your own attention. Or that I was like. Using him. Exactly. And I know that that was his experience in past situations and stuff. And so I, again, overcompensated, was malleable to fit into exactly what somebody needed me

to be for them to be happy. And what I've realized over the years is I don't know if I've ever truly been in love with someone, but I have loved the feeling of being loved. Of course. And so let me be what that needs to be so that I can be loved. And then because I'm so filled with love from someone, of course I love you, I love everyone. I've been in love with everybody I've ever dated,

but have I, I don't want to overanalyze it because every person I've also dated has been a very good person. Beautiful, yeah, beautiful qualities. But his life is enormous, and if I were you, I might start getting flashbacks of being in England. I'm in someone else's life a little bit. At that time, no clue.

I was so oblivious, so dissociative. I had no idea that that was like a repeated pattern, even though it's familiar and what I know, it's not what I want, but it's what makes me feel safe. Exactly, you know how to navigate it. You have practice. But again, lovely person. And eventually, I remember when I decided

to break things off, I had a lot of these Brentwood moms and producers in that world that were like, what are you doing? And I was like, what do you mean? They're like, your life is completely set up. And I was like, but I didn't build it. Exactly. And of course I was like, I need to create this. Competitively, like it's not mine. And I want to feel the pride of build it. Exactly. And of course I was like, I need to create this competitively.

Like it's not mine. And I want to feel the pride of doing it. I remember I was with my manager and he challenged me in a way. I don't know if you guys know your Enneagrams. I'm a seven wing eight, which is like the enthusiast and the challenger. So when somebody challenges me, I will challenge right back. So my manager said to me, he's like, it must be really hard dating him because he's got such a big life

and he's doing this and this and this. And I was like, no, it's not. Watch me do it. I have a big life too. Yeah, exactly. My ego popped in and that was all before I started on my healing journey. Did you have this?

When I was breaking up with this person, I had this fear that was right, but irrelevant to my real life, which was, well, I know how the public version of this story is gonna go, and I don't like that. It was another element of feeling out of control or powerless. I know what the assumption will be when this dissolves,

and I don't like that, and I almost can't leave because I don't want that to happen, which I know is gonna happen. Weird enough, again, totally unaware. I didn't think about what people thought. Okay, that's healthy. I was just wrestling on the inside. I think much more about what people think now,

which is the pendulum swing. I've gone this side, this side, and I'm trying really hard to find this way, like middle of the ground. Live between five and seven. Yeah, but I definitely was in full self-preservation mode, so I was only concerned about me. I couldn't see, even now I'm talking,

I'm like, my publicist is probably gonna be like, what the fuck, Juliette? You didn't need to say all of that. No, it's great. Do you know how many people can relate to having that feeling of joining someone else's life? I mean, it's a very, very common feeling. I think so many people can relate. it's a very, very common feeling.

I think so many people can relate. This is a very heightened version of it, but so many people do that. Your wife or husband is a trial attorney, and you're like, yeah, so that's the main thing. Everything works around that. This person will be gone for this amount of time. That totally works for some people.

Well, your mom and your dad, the same pattern. Although it didn't work for mom. It didn't work for Julianne. Well, wait mom and your dad, the same pattern. Although it didn't work for mom. Yeah. It didn't work for Juliana. Exactly. Well, wait, we haven't got to my marriage yet. Oh my God. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Wait, I do have a question. In your addiction loop, is love addiction in there? Connection is, just needing some connection and validation. Okay. Not intimacy. Validation's probably my number one addiction. Yeah. Stay tuned for more of our chair expert, if you dare. Okay, so we end the country music career

and we don't officially end it. We just kind of fade away from it. Fade away. You then return to Dancing with the Stars. You're doing a lot of things. I was doing films. I was doing movies. Yeah, you did Footloose.

Footloose and Rock of Ages and Safe Haven. Are you loving that? I'm loving it. It's isolation again, so I'm just doing the work. This is just what I know. Yeah, you're in a bubble when you do a movie. It's like three months and I focus on this entirely. And actually that's a very good reference point

to what I discovered later on, which is I love a project because it's not sustainable. I can do three months, do everything I can, and then I can move on. And you can ignore your life while you're doing it. I can ignore that life, and then I can be done with that life and go have another one.

If you look at my career, I've pivoted, pivoted, pivoted. I haven't rooted anywhere to create an identity. I'm actually associated as Julianne Hough, the chick from Dancing with the Stars, versus all the other things that I do. What is my identity? Because Dancing with the Stars has been the most consistent.

I was a dancer, judge, host. That has been the most consistent. So was a dancer, judge, host. That has been the most consistent. So my identity is associated with a show. You need a nice six year television show. But then I'll be associated with that show. Yeah, you need something outside of work. I'm still figuring stuff out. I'm like there, I just have to accept it.

Yeah. I mean in that, or at least in my experience was, that was the answer to movies. Because it wasn't a bubble, it's your real life. It goes on all year long, and it goes on all year long for six years. And at some point you're like, no, no, I have a real job with real coworkers

that I can really commit to, and I'll see them for the rest of my life. And it's actually very substantive and very roots-y. Well a few years ago, this is when I figured out my addiction loop. I was in Nebraska and I was in a parking lot of a Pilates studio and I was waiting to go in and it was raining and I was like, this is my life.

I am in Nebraska in a parking lot, going to Pilates, waiting to be called on to set with people I don't know, and I'm doing this for the rest of my life, and I'm single, what is happening? This is not the life that I want. I'm grateful for the job, and I'm grateful that I have the opportunity to do what I do,

but this is not the life that I want. You're seeing that it's adding up to something you're not gonna want at the end of all of that. Does that influence what you do professionally? Yeah. You go, okay, I'm gonna be a judge, I'll be home, I can actually nurture my real life and put roots down. And then, how do you meet your husband?

I was doing a movie and we were set up by the lead actor and his wife. I was kind of talking to like, you know, five different people, non-committal, let me just have the validation and the attention. And he was one of them. And I went to a Tony Robbins seminar that my brother pretty much forced me to go to. My sisters and my mom, we all went.

Are you in the doc? I'm now remembering. It was December of 2013. I had been broken up with Ryan for like almost a year. And that was my fuck it year. And that's when I met Nina. She went to that too, right? Yeah, it took me six years to get her there, but. Oh, okay, okay, there you go.

But that's how her and Sean met. And she met Sean, yeah. I will take credit at the wedding. You're allowed. We both deserve some credit. I tried to hook them up backstage at the Teen Choice Awards. I introduced them the first time.

And then you came in. For the kill. Yeah. But yeah, so that was December of 2013. I'd just been on this like fuck it year with Nina. I had never got wild before. Everything was misperfect and image everything. And I was scared.

You know, we went to Coachella for the first time and I was like, I'm going to do drugs, you know? And like, and of course I did like a half a weed Jolly Rancher. And like, I was like, I'm going to be really conservative. And by the time we took it from the hotel to the venue, I had them take me back home. weed Jolly Rancher and like I was like I'm gonna be really conservative and by the time we took it from the hotel to the venue I had them take me back home because I was tripping so hard.

On the half of a weed Jolly Rancher. Anyway so that was the beginning and then Nina and I would travel. Sounds like you were maybe having your adolescence. I was for sure and then at the end of that year I remember I was like smoking. It just felt dark. My energy was just bleh and I went to this Tony Robbins You were going to be having your adolescence. I was for sure. And then at the end of that year, I remember I was like smoking, it just felt dark. My energy was just bleh. And I went to this Tony Robbins seminar

and I was actually supposed to meet Brooks, my ex-husband for the first time at the end of that week. And so I was like, I'm only going to go for two days Derek because I know this is important to you. I'll go for two days, but I'm going to come back. I'm going to get my nails done, my hair done, you know. And then I'm going to have a lie to go

and see this new guy in DC. Wow, flying to a blind date. I mean, we'd been talking for a little bit and I was still kind of talking to these other people. I remember the first day of the Tony Robbins seminar, I was like, oh shit. I was completely oblivious of so many different belief systems that I had and patterns and the meanings that I put behind everything.

And then I realized, oh my God, I was proving myself to these people. And then I was like, I thought I was a good girlfriend, but actually I wasn't because I wasn't communicating anything. It was like, dr'm staying. Yeah. I text everybody that I was talking to and I was like, I am so sorry, this is going nowhere, but thank you for the time. I'm day two at a Tony Robbins convention

and this is over. This is over, yeah. But for some reason with Brooks, I don't wanna end things with him. And I ended up having the greatest week of my life. I pivoted so hard and did the pendulum swing of so closed off to like my heart is so open and it is not about giving and taking,

it's just about giving. Like I went to this whole third dimensional place of love of just like I don't want anything in return, I just want to love. And I went and I met him and I was just on this Tony Robbins high glowing. False advertisement maybe. A little bit because I went so I met him and I was just on this Tony Robbins high glowing. False advertisement maybe. A little bit because I went so far on the other side of the pendulum swing that it was all about just giving.

So when we met, I was in a state of love. We started dating and I think he was a little bit like, who is this fairy who's like popped into my life? He's also very black and white, came from Wawotis, Saskatchewan, population 600. Lived with all boys in a dorm growing up Yeah, and like hockey was his whole life Amazing culture by the way Totally I just was like this is it I'm ready and Sometimes you meet the people for the right time the season whatever it is and something just was the right fit

We did long distance for like three and a half years and then we got married. So did you ever live together? Not really. I would go back and forth every other week to see him. In hindsight there were a lot of orange flags I would say. Again you're joining his life. He has a set schedule. While also keeping my own in LA because I could go home and just do what I needed to do. And so then when we actually joined forces, he came into my life. So it was this interesting joining of lives. Was he retiring when he came to be with you? No.

And he had a really rough last few years of his career. He was injured and then he got traded. Before his team that he'd been there for almost 12 years won the Stanley Cup. It makes me want to cry because I feel for him so bad. What a year. Yeah, that was 2017. Yeah. That was the year we got married,

and the year that everything kinda started unraveling. Yeah. That's a bomber. Because sometimes you wonder just, another time, another place kind of thoughts. But sometimes those thoughts are- Lies. Yeah, and I think they often are.

I think it can be distracting. Liz and I talk about this a lot because I think she does this of like, I wonder if now it's like, it wasn't right. That can be a hard thing to fully accept. But you could also have met me one year before I got sober and you could have met me three years after I got sober and probably, you know. But it wasn't right.

It has nothing to do with like, then maybe, you know. I feel like our relationship and our marriage was exactly right and the end of it is right too. We both have regrets that it didn't work out because I don't think we had the maturity to like come together. He was contracting while I was expanding. We just couldn't find each other in that.

We just went into our own protective modes. So we've definitely accepted what happened, but we're sad that it didn't work out because I've only dated great human beings. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's great. And he's got the greatest heart that I could have ever had the privilege of being with.

Now, I would imagine there's two really strong forces in the wake of a divorce for you. One being, I'm not gonna be my mom, because that to me is a big motivator for me to never get divorced. It's just like, I refuse to do what my parents did. Parents and my oldest sister, because my sister and my mom did the same pattern.

So my sister got married when she was 19, the year that my mom left my dad. 20 years later, my sister left her husband, same thing. And my mom was actually thinking about leaving her husband at that time. And it was the year that I got married. Oh wow. It was very, yeah.

Suspicious. Yeah, it was very strange. So when I got divorced, I was like, well, I'm not gonna spend 20 years doing this. And I'm a very hungry, curious person. And especially in the last 10 years, I've been very much into the self-discovery zone. And then when I got divorced, I was like, I am not getting into a relationship.

I'm not just doing that. I'm not gonna do the thing. So there's the element of like, okay, now I'm one step closer to being like my mom. But then also the perfectionist who now has failed publicly where you like dealing with the embarrassment that people knew. In my opinion, we shouldn't feel bad for celebrities

because we got it all. But it's a unique experience, I think, to have the hardest thing people go through generally, divorce, in public, it's just this other element that seems uniquely cruel. Well, I think the thing that was the hardest, yes, it was publicity and the narrative that it was me going on this spiritual journey,

and there was this quote that came out earlier from that and lots of stuff was circulating it and at the time I just never spoke about it because I was like, I don't wanna feed into anything but also I never had the narrative ever during that time. I've also felt kind of misunderstood in that timeframe but then I'm like, but who am I trying to get to understand me?

I don't actually care at this point anymore. Well, that's what you hope to come out on. Yeah. But there's these moments where- But at the time, no, no, no, at the time. Whoa. Yeah, no thank you. It was my death hole pit of shit era.

Like that was like four years. Yeah. And it was during COVID too, right? It was, so I asked for a separation in September of 2019. 10 days later, my dogs died. And I had them for 11 years and it was... Oh no, they both died? Yeah, it was very tragic.

I'm sorry. Thank you. That was all kind of happening at the same time, but it was an unraveling. Everything that I had ever known, that I had put into place for my control and my protection, unconditional love was represented by my girls, Lexi and Harley.

I had this marriage to this guy who represented more of a father figure to me. And while he was changing, I was changing. Completely unmoored. You're like, what can I count on? There is nothing I can count on in this life. Uprooted everything to the point where these are like the negative thoughts that you have.

You're like, I literally blew up my entire life and I have nothing. But that's not the truth. It's like, oh, I actually get to start in an intentional way that I get to design and create the life that is actually coming from my soul. Have you destroyed your whole life or have you been liberated from a life you didn't intentionally design?

And even though it is liberation when I look at it from a higher place, doesn't mean it wasn't hard as fuck. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. I think liberation, that viewpoint comes years later. Totally. I don't think anyone in the moment is like, oh, I'm liberated from my marriage. You're like, oh my fucking God, my life's ending. Well since then, work works out for you.

I mean, you do Broadway, you're on America's Got Talent, you are a judge on Dancing with the Stars, you host the Red Carpet for the Oscars, you just did the Tony Awards, you're plenty distracted by work. There is a healthy zone of work. There's like the one where you completely lose yourself to it and ignore your real life,

but then there's also one where it's like, it's mini vacations, which are nice and needed. The first part of the divorce, it was COVID. And I had just started a company called Kinergy. And it was basically what I needed and what I was doing to start my healing journey. And so I was sharing that through an outlet, which was a company.

And so that was like the first thing that I focused my energy on. And that took up a lot of time and energy, and I was managing a lot of people. And so I had connection. I had a mission and purpose. It felt like it was coming from me. This wasn't a performance.

So it was this first time that I felt connected to something that felt real and sustainable in a way that I wasn't pushing. And then that kind of took its toll and the company shifted and changed and went into a different direction and I moved away from that. I think in the last few years, I consciously was like, I don't want to date because I know when I do, I can feel it. I'm not attracting the thing that I want,

and I'm not being who I want to be. Let me focus on my family relationships and my friendships, and then I can work too. But my relationship with my mom and dad, when I got divorced, everything fell apart, and the only people that I could turn to were my parents. It was a full reuniting of like, hey guys, I'm about to unload a lot. I love you, this is why I'm gonna share all of this, but this is what happened. And we literally went through years of

healing and that connection with my parents, I got to feel like a kid again. Lovely. Yeah, taken care of, totally taken care of, and I couldn't, it was the most depressed time in my life and I couldn't just keep going. And thank God for the pandemic, I couldn't hide. And so it was the most beautiful opportunity to create that connection with my family and my sisters because Derek and I were close, but we had a wedge with us. And I have the life that they wish that they had.

They're so proud and they would never want me to not have it, but there's so much sadness that they weren't able to have it. And I was able to look at them and be like, okay, my oldest sister has six kids and she went through a divorce and there were so many abandonments and betrayals that happened in her life that I'm experiencing right now. I can go and ask her for advice.

I can need her. My second sister had a business with 60 employees and I was struggling with having employees and I could go to her and talk to her about that. My third sister really struggled with depression and anxiety and self-worth and I was like, I can talk to her about that. And we had all these things that we could bond over

that were real. Fundamentally. Yeah. So I was able to reconnect with my family. By the way, almost everything you're listing is all the bondings really over the imperfections and the failures. And it's like when you're presenting all the time all of this perfection, it's a barrier of connection,

weirdly. We think it'll attract more people to us, but it's not really the thing that connects us. Yeah. I used to say my energy was my superpower. I was like, I think it was just anxiety. Yeah. But the more you breathe, the more you have.

And then it's this misguided representation of energy. Sometimes more is just more. It's not better. Okay. We have arrived at everything we never knew. This is another pivot. It is. Because when you're coming on, and I know you have a book,

my assumption is it's gonna be a memoir, and it's not. It is a fiction novel, but it's supernatural. It's heightened, it's self-discovery, it's factional. It is my experiences of my, I hate using this term, but spiritual awakening and my awareness and the unraveling of my so-called perfect life. I was like, you know, I spent so much of my life giving every part of myself to everyone. And I don't want to share the details, but I want to share the universal themes of loss and grief

and abandonment and betrayal and violation and all sorts of things that I've experienced. So who's carrying your story in this book? Her name is Lexi. Your dog. Who is my soulmate. Oh. Lexi is a woman who seemingly has everything put together. She is the star saleswoman at her real estate firm.

She has the perfect husband. They live in the perfect little house in Utah. At the very beginning, you realize that she had a very big loss. And as she's kind of going through this experience at her gala, where she's about to receive her award for the best salesman of the year, she's a little distracted, but she goes up to give her speech, and she sees a man. And she's like, I don't recognize this guy.

He's got this like cloud around him and it's just this dark energy and he sits down and then all of a sudden she can't breathe. She feels like she's drowning. She tastes the salt water. And then she starts hearing this woman saying like, help him, save him Henry. And she's like, the fuck is happening right now.

And she's like, is anybody hearing this? No. And cut to, that's like her first experience of like something's happening right now. And she's like, is anybody hearing this? No, and cut to, that's like her first experience of like something's not right. I think I'm either going crazy, nobody heard this, and then later on that night, he ends up having an overdose and she thinks I could have helped him.

Ah-ha. So now she's like, what's happening? She's getting empath infected. You think this whole book, she's on this journey to become a healer, and of course you can't heal anybody or be a part of somebody's healing journey without healing yourself first.

So she has to go through her own lessons of healing and transformation. And it's all through the elements, earth, fire, water, air, and this is all based off of my true experiences and what I used as my healing journey. And when I was going through that and writing the book, I have a, technically she was supposed to be a ghostwriter, but I was like, she wrote this.

I came up with the concept and the themes and we talked every week, but I'm a high concept person. Like let somebody else write it. And so she's on the cover. Ellen Goodlett. Yeah. So as I was writing the book, I couldn't actually look at it

for two years after we wrote it. I wrote it in 2020. Oh my gosh, because you felt like it was gonna be still too exposing. Exposing, but also I like to call it my death hole, pit of shit era, where I was in the darkest time. I couldn't give the good energy for it.

It was just negative. You were gonna infect whatever you read with the terrible lens you were looking through life with. Exactly, I felt such like a cowardly, hypocritical thing because I'm writing this thing, I've created this modality, kinergy, to help other people with their movement and transformation and I'm going through this shit storm of a thing.

And so I was like, I can't even look at it until I'm out of this. Anyway, I ended up reading it, end of 2022. And I was like, oh shit, this is really good. I think I should probably do something with it. So we started figuring out what the actual editing process was like. And when that was happening, I actually started writing music. And I've written five songs that are for each one of the lessons that she goes through.

And I'm going to do the book narration and do score. And so I'm like, oh, wow, this is the artistry that goes through. Oh, cool. And gonna do the book narration. Oh, nice. And do score. And so I'm like, oh wow, this is the artistry that I was talking about, which is through the healing. I like found creativity and passion with actually my voice. And so even though it's like such a departure, I would never call myself an author.

It's storytelling, it's narrative, and it's how people experience it. So some people will read, some people will listen to music, some people will dance. And most importantly, you read it and narrative, and it's how people experience it. So some people will read, some people will listen to music, some people will dance. And most importantly, you read it and you felt like it represented the story that you had gone through. Different experiences, but the universal themes.

So people who know my story will be able to read between the lines. People who don't know my story will see themselves completely in it and find their own version. I admire that you're including Alan a lot Like almost more than anything me too. How did you decide that was that a hard decision? Not at all integrity. That's a really interesting thing you say that because in the last three years I've been like integrity is my word. You know, he's got a lot of integrity. Mm-hmm, Monica

I feel like I'm going to be a big part of that. I feel like I'm going to be a big part of that. I feel like I'm going to be a big part of that. I feel like I'm going to be a big part of that. I feel like I'm going to be a big part of that. I feel like I'm going to be a big part of that. I feel like I'm going to be a big part of that. I feel like I'm going to be a big part of that. I feel like I'm going to be a big part of that.

I feel like I'm going to be a big part of that. I feel like I'm going to be a big part of that. I feel like I'm going to be a big part of that. I feel like I'm going to be a big part of that. I feel like I'm going to be a big part of that. I feel like I'm going to be a big part of that. I feel like I'm going to be a big part of that. I feel like I'm going to be a big part of that. I feel like I'm going to be a big part of that. because that was out of fear from a long time ago. Also, you were very results oriented. Performative. Yeah. Yeah, integrity is internal and it's not flashy

and it might get noticed and it might not. And it can be repellent. It can be. It's inconvenient sometimes. Yeah. When it's time to tell a white lie. That's what this book is and it's the first project that I've had that's taken me a long time. It wasn't just a quick thing.

It's come from like a deep rooted truth and authenticity and scary place. And it's also something that I'm like, if it hits, great. If it doesn't, cool. I did it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was about process, hopefully, and not about the results. You've been stuck in the results. And then the last thing we'll mention is that you're in The Bride,

which Maggie Gyllenhaal directed, and fucking Christian Bale and Annette Beny and Penelope Cruz. Let me just tell you really quick, I think Christian Bale is probably the best working male actor. Oh my gosh. American Beauty, I would say her performance

is among the top three I've ever seen. Ever. And then Penelope Cruz, what a party for you. No, it's a party. I'm very excited. I think it was announced so I can say it, but Jake Gyllenhaal is also in it. Oh!

And so Jake and I. We love Jake. We play 1930s movie stars. Oh, fun! Oh, come on. We get to dance and have our. We got Maggie directs Jake. We gotta have them both on together.

It's fabulous. It's really fun watching them. Talk about a perfectionist. He's just so like, I even look what he did with Roadhouse. Roadhouse and his body. The body and the learning all the moves and the fight sequences, so convincing, clearly so dedicated to everything he does. We were dancing and he was wanting to get it so perfect.

I bet. All right, so the bride, everyone look for that. And then everything we never knew. August 13th. Yes. Fun. Okay, Jules, AKA Julianne Huff, such a pleasure to have you.

You too. Good luck with everything, everyone. Read everything we never knew. Be well. Stay tuned for the fact check so you can hear all the facts that were wrong. How's the trip been so far, Aaron? Fantastic. So good. So good to see you.

What are the highlights? The highlights, once again, is gonna have to be Morton's steakhouse. Oh yeah. Monday night. Recurring, recurring state. Yeah. We had such a party there. It just was a magical night it turned into.

This is a weird sign of a great experience, but this has happened to me at Houston's three or four times and it happened to me at Morton's, which is immediately after the meal, I had to really go to the bathroom in crazy harness. Before we left the restaurant. Before I left the restaurant. Oh, wow.

And I think that's the result of eating such delicious, rich, fatty food. Buttery. That my body's like, whoa, we gotta get this. Well, you eat very regimented, so also it's just like different. So we went hard wedge, we went split the rack of lambs in the ribeye,

truffle fries, sauteed spinach, and we forced Nate to order a martini. The dry gin martini. Hell yeah. With extra olives. Yeah. That's my drink, but I don't get olives, I get lemon twist.

Oh. Yeah, we, well, and then I asked for a pack of cigarettes, too, which she didn't have. But. In the telephone. In the telephone. Our obsession with that, Morton, is we really want a telephone with a cord

where they would bring it out, oh, fourth person? Hello? Someone just knocked? It sounded like it, but it might just be construction. It's Delta. Oh, it's Delta. Oh, no. Oh, no.

Oh, no. She's just got a new Nerf gun. Oh, and she wants to show me. She already blasted you? Oh, yeah, shot the shit out of me. Hi. Hi. What's up?

I just needed your help. I was looking for Aaron. You were looking for Aaron? Why, did you want to shoot him? No, I was looking for Aaron. You were looking for Aaron? Why, did you wanna shoot him? No, I was gonna ask if he could participate in our game. Oh, would it involve him getting shot with your Nerf gun? Oh no, he would just be, bait, we'd put a gun to his head.

Oh, she wouldn't shoot him. She blasted five rounds into me already. Okay, well I'm sorry I'm stalling him for work. He'll be done in an hour. What? An hour. I know, I'm sorry. That's an eternity at your age.

She's a good shot, by the way. She has your skill with a pistol. Yeah. We were talking about what potential, if we had to be in the Olympics, what could we do? What would be our best shot? Like now? Like if we had to go today with our current skills?

Or is it our aptitude? That's a great question. We didn't get that granular about it. Aaron, is baseball in the Olympics? Anyways, I was a pretty good shot with a pistol. Is what we remembered. Aaron was much better with a rifle or a shotgun, but I was pretty good with a pistol.

So we thought, oh, maybe I'll do that weird pistol. And did you watch any of the pistol shooting? They have the weirdest physicality you can imagine. It's like they're leaning on four different invisible things, they have the weirdest position to do it. I had overlooked something and then someone else in the comments had to do it, yeah. I had overlooked something, and then someone else in the comments had discovered it on their own.

As I had previously said, there was a synchronized diving team, American women by the name of Cook and Bacon. Do you know who won men's gold? In synchronized swimming? I'm sorry, synchronized diving? No. Long Wang.

Wow. Yeah, because that diving. Long wang. Wow. Yeah, because that can't make it up. So good. Wow. There was also one of the swimming competitions, there was like a Canadian person next to an American person and it was Harvey Weinstein. Oh my God.

Oh my God. It was like you could have just separated them. Flip the lanes. Yeah. Oh my God. Oh my God. It was crazy. So there's some fun name play going on.

Did you happen, I know you didn't, but did you happen to see the heavyweight wrestling gold medal match? No. It was a Cuban wrestler, and this was his fifth Olympics in a row he won gold at. Completely unprecedented, he's 41. Wow, that's bonkers.

Yeah, five in a row Olympics, isn't that crazy? So 20 years. Yes. Of gold. Of gold, baby. Nice. I hope he comes back at 45. Oh gold. Of gold, baby. Nice. I hope he comes back at 45. Oh, now this is a pitch.

I think this is a very good idea. When they do any event, particularly, I wanna see it in the 400 and the 800 and the 200, all the running ones where there's multiple lanes, they should have a dead average person in the ninth lane. A lot of people, yep. Is this a common request? I have heard this before.

You have? Yes, I have. So nothing original about this thought. No, but it's a good enough thought that a lot of people have thought it. There couldn't be anything better than to just see a dead average person. So we know what's happening. Because they're all relative to one another.

You're talking. I think about that with the swimmers. No one would even be halfway across the pool by the time they're done with their like 800. Do you think any of them would become the stars? Like here's Dan swimming in the sixth lane. Like just people in root for him? Yeah.

Or what if he won? Well, he's one of those people. He got all hyped up on the crowd. He starts getting all the commercials. Also he would have, or she would have, a ton of time in the spotlight because I was thinking, I can't remember if the 400, I know that it's around 50,

or maybe even the last 40 something, eight. I haven't timed myself running all around the track an entire lap, but I'm guessing it's gotta be more around a minute and a half. So I would have like a good 40 seconds of a close up when everyone else is finished. You get some good screen time as that average Joe. Lots of screen time.

I don't think they zoom in, they just have you in the background, like still going. They're doing the interview. Yeah, while they're interviewing. Shutting the lights off. Yeah. But you have to keep going,

everyone's fuddling out and you're like, oh, traffic's gonna be a bitch. Get the last one out of here. Guys mopping the floor. Okay, now you know I have a history of offending Olympians. Do you remember this? You've done it before, yeah. Yeah, and it was specifically when we launched Parenthood,

which I think was in 2008, and we followed the Winter Olympics. So everywhere we went to do press, they would of course ask us about the Olympics. And I said that curling's crazy. No one's even in a uniform. Which I do think is offensive. I do.

I'm like, what is this? People do it their whole life. It's sweeping, there's like someone with a broom and people are wearing like sweats and nothing matches. So I was just being funny. Is there that really? Is that random? I know what it is.

Oh, it looks like, oh God, here I go again. I don't wanna get back into it. Point is I had done that and then I got a lot of blowback from it and I apologize. I think it's a great sport and I wish all Curlers a ton of luck and good fortune. And so I learned my lesson. So now I'm not gonna say anything about it.

I'm just gonna say something. Okay, sounds like you really learned my lesson, so now I'm not gonna say anything about it, I'm just gonna say something. Okay, sounds like you really learned a lesson. Speed walking. Oh. And I'm just gonna say speed walking, and that's all I'm gonna say. No, I'm not gonna say an opinion about it, but I'm just gonna simply say speed walking.

I enjoyed the clips you sent me last night. I sent Monica a clip too. It's, Kristen's character in Queen Pins was a speed walker. Like Olympic speed walker, I think. And that's a factual story, I wonder if that element. Yeah, it is. It does something so specific to the body.

Yeah, because the back of your heel has to touch. So your feet have to touch. Yeah. Which is why then you look like really worm-like. has to touch, so that your feet have to touch. Yeah. Which is why then you look like really worm-like. Uh-huh, your hips are going back and forth, up and down, up and down, and then your knees seem to bow a bit

from years of doing this. Yeah, probably. It doesn't, like what it does, it looks very unnatural anatomically. Like the body knows it's supposed to start running at that point. Yes, it is, yeah, for sure. Yeah.

I wonder if I'd be good at it because I am naturally bow-legged. Oh, okay, but I think you might need to be. The opposite. Pigeon-toed or whatever. But you think you're bow-legged? I am, yeah. My knees don't touch.

Oh, when you put your, oh, my dude ears in. Let's do a little. What do I do here? Put your ankles together touching and see if your knees then touch. Oh, God, no. Oh, really, are you ears, Aaron. Let's do a little. What do we do here? Put your ankles together touching and see if your knees then touch. Oh, God, no. Really, are you both like a two? You have tree trunk thighs, though.

You have such redwood, strong, powerful. Wait, no, your knees are touching. Okay. Okay. Oh, do you think we meant the top of your knees? No, no, no, it's just, it's taking a lot of effort. Effort to do it. But Monica's claiming she can't even do it. It won't. Can I see if I push, if you push from the outside,

could you get them to touch? Like to save mankind, you've gotta get them to touch. I mean, yeah. Okay. Ow, no, it hurts. Oh my God, you got hurt. You can't be in the Olympics. I know, I can, I can, I can.

Now when I sent you the clip, what did you think? Had you watched any of it? No, I had not. I had not seen that. I did, I don't wanna be derogatory. I don't either. How long are the races? I don't want to at all.

So I was, oh, forever. Let me just keep it going here for a minute. They last a very long time. They're going marathon length. They are? Yes, I was watching that and it was on all night. I was trying to- They're not walking, they're walking 26 miles?

Find out what the distance is. And they walked like 41, they had to go in a loop 41 times or something. Yeah, so there's 5,000 meters, 10,000 meters, 20,000 meters, 50,000 meters. Must've been 20,000 meters. How many miles is that? That's 20 km.

So that's 13 miles. So half marathon. Half marathon. Now I'm starting to get interested about it. Me too, the more I talk about it. Yeah, now I'm like, the judges, are they watching constant? Is someone watching a specific person constant

that they don't break their stride? Exactly. They add penalties. So like if you fuck up in your running or whatever, you don't touch your heel, I can't remember if you get a warning first, but at some point they start giving you three minute penalties. So it's not like they just go get out of there,

they start adding on to your time. How are they, do they have binoculars? How are they making sure the heels? And is there 65 judges for each? That's exactly. There's no way you could be watching two people at once. No, no. Also after like an hour of it, does that thing happen?

You know, there's been studies on whether security guards can actually even see those TVs after they're on a shift for three hours, you know this? Because their eyes like glaze over. Well, their subconscious just files it in. They can't really see anything. It's kind of, it's pageantry. And I do wonder if at some point they're like,

they get hypnotized and they're missing the mark. Yeah. Could be. Could be. And then we had had an inquiry about gymnastics and the whole stunting your growth thing. Do you remember that? Uh-huh.

And so someone wrote in and they said, I love this episode also, I do think gymnastics stunts your growth thing, do you remember that? And so someone wrote in and they said, love this episode also, I do think gymnastics stunts your growth. I quit when I was 19 and I was five foot one inches in less than a year I grew four inches and I'm five five. I'm also the shortest person in my family by a good three inches. So anecdotally I do think I'd be taller

if I didn't do gymnastics. Yeah, it's all anecdotal. I haven't heard anything from any doctors or scientists. Yeah. But Simone's 4'8". She's 4'8". It had to have stunted her a little bit. And I don't think any of her competitors are above 5'2".

I watched an interview with her where she was debunking gymnastics myths and one of them was people say gymnastics sends your growth and she said, I don't know but I am four eight so probably. Okay good, she calls it like she sees it. She does. She seems liberated.

Yeah, yeah she really does. That's cause she goes to therapy. Yeah, she's being her true authentic self. Okay sorry, there we go. Oh wow, okay. We had such a fun chat off there. No, you can't say that, it'll make people angry. I know.

We had such a fun chat off there, we're back. Morton. Okay, let's get back to Morten's. It is like a time travel. Yeah, I love a steakhouse for that reason. Yes, and what you really want most is a big big heavy telephone. And you want them to bring it to you

because your business demanded it, right? They know you're at Morton's for lunch every day. Mind you, this was dinner. And then you have to either fire someone or threaten to fire someone over this landline while you're chewing your steak and then you slam it and then you light up a cigarette and have a nice cigarette in there.

Yeah. It only seems right there. I would never smoke again. It's been almost 19 years, but I might make an exception inside of Morton's if they said we're gonna bring smoking back for a day. I might have a big steak and have the cigarette burning while I'm eating the steak.

Of course. Yeah, if she would have brought us cigarettes. Out of Tray. In the ashtray, I would have smoked. Big, gorgeous crystal ashtray. Did you guys have baked potatoes? Not this time. I encouraged Nate to get the loaded baked potato.

I love a loaded baked potato. But he felt like he had enough food. My favorite part is when Dax wants other people to have things. Like when I was still drinking, especially early on when he would get sober, he's like, can you please have some drinks? More cigarettes, he wanted me to do all the things he couldn't.

And be yourself. I was always terrified that people were curbing their behavior because I'm sober. Yeah, I know that's part of it. And I get it too because I had a lot of joy watching Nate drink a martini. Yeah, that was pretty fun. And what a bastard, Monica.

He drank like a third of it. Yeah, he didn't even finish it. And Aaron and Eric. They're strong if you aren't used to drinking them. But also he's with three addicts, and we were like, what the fuck is he doing? Eric. I would never have had, I mean.

Well, we made up. I would have, I would have. You drank wine with just Eric and I. I think you guys were coming out for your meeting too, right? Yeah, we were coming from a meeting. I'm proud of Nate for doing it. Like, I'm glad he did it.

He did not want it. I would have felt uncomfortable. I would have felt uncomfortable. Even when we suggested Jen, you could tell he was like, oh, God, this is even getting better. Like, I'm just specific. I really don't want this. Do you know what's happening though, in my head right now?

What? You know. No. I want one so bad. Oh, you should go to Morton's and have one. I mean, I. You might, right? I'm not gonna go to Morton's.

You should, you should. That feels far. It's far, isn't it? Isn't it in Beverly Hills? No, no, no, no, it's right here in Burbank. Right by Warner Brothers. Oh. Yeah, but then I have to drive.

It's very simple. It's an easy commute. I, but then I have to drive. It's very simple. It's an easy commute. I just mean if I've been drinking a bunch of martinis. Well, you don't have to have a bunch. You could just have three or four. Three or four martinis? Ha ha ha ha ha ha! Not a bunch.

Okay, you know what's worse? I'll pay for an Uber for you to get to and from. What's really upsetting that this happens. We'll try to be one, two, three, four. Ha ha ha ha ha! You're just outside the window. And then we'll be like, Monica, it's time for you to try your first cigarette.

We'll have a pack of cigarettes with us. I got for one second, and this is, this kid's a little worrisome. For one second when you said, not a lot, just three or four, I thought for a second, like, oh my God, I really am not drinking much at all. Oh, sure. Because that sounds insane. But then when you said it as if like, yeah, that's average,

and I was like, oh, I'm definitely barely drinking. Doing fine, yeah. If I had three Jack and Diets at a dinner, that would be a big win for me. I wouldn't be like, oh, this is great, I don't even have a problem. Or even four. Two martinis is-

You're also half my size. Yeah, two martinis is what I would get probably, which is- And you'd be loose. Which is a martini extra than most regular drinkers or like, you know, people who dip their toe in. As you said, Nate had half a martini. A third.

Yeah. God. We made him take one more sip before he left. He didn't want to. He might have liked a lemon twist more. Can I show you a picture of him? I was just about to say the picture is great. It looks like a fishbowl of martini.

I mean, it does look really big in the picture. I got the perspective to look extra sweet. Was it an extra big one or something? No, totally normal. Okay, Monty, pick up your phone. It's like real cloudy, which I like. There is something about a Martini with steak though. Yeah, and cigarettes.

Yeah, steak houses. That's what cigarettes. Well, yeah, steak houses. Yeah, that's what I think of whiskey, cigarettes, phones. Phones. Phones. Business. Loosening my belt. Oh my God. This is a cute picture.

Making up excuses to your family. Yeah, right. I do gotta point out one thing that was a really nice touch was that he ordered it, and not cause it was slow. The man took a long time to make it and he personally brought it out from the bar. It's not like they handed it off to the server. The man who made it, Artisanal.

Yeah, Atelier. Atelier, he walked it over. Yeah. And I was like. On a platter? It had to have been? I think so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was on a trick.

It was pretty classy, yeah. It was so good. Rob, when you drank, did you ever drink martinis? No. It's a move. It is, it's what James Bond always did. Yeah, you know now I get them with a lemon twist and an orange twist, I invented that.

Oh, okay, a citrus combo? Kind of like an Arnold Palmer of martinis. Yeah. I'm starving, I think that's why I want a martini. Yeah, is that a state of mind? I'm really starting to want one too. You're going to start talking about it? My nose feels really empty, like painfully empty.

This is where my co-defendant starts kicking in. Have you taken Aaron DeCara? Yeah. Okay. I have been. And we almost went yesterday, but we ended up going to your place. We're not saying where it is because I've decided I'm not giving all my spots away. Yeah, and you don't want to stand in line to go to go to a place like that, but it was great.

It was delicious. It was. We got there four minutes before open, and I mean, you walk in just fucking partying. 356. Pfft. Pfft. Pfft.

Pfft. Pfft. Pfft. Why is that so funny? It's exactly when we got there. Only once there. We beat the bartender. And then, do you wanna hear my highlight?

Yeah. Of his visit? Yes. There's been so many. We've watched so much Olympics and we've worked out a bunch and we've been in the pool every night watching Olympics, which has been so special and sauna-ing. Very great visit.

But last night we watched Johnny Hussle, the Pete Rose documentary on HBO. I had flagged it a couple weeks ago, something I would watch, but then I thought, oh, Aaron's coming and he's a baseball junkie, so we'll save it. We're enjoying the hell out of it. We watched two episodes last night,

but we had our best laugh of the day. Yeah, we had to pause it and laugh for 10 full minutes maybe. Where my stomach hurt. Cause he had, and I say this with great respect to Pete Rose, he's the stat machine, maybe the best to ever play. He always had the very worst haircut imaginable. Where like, it's insane how bad the haircuts were

and they're flashing back to 1974, then 1976. His style's changing, but every time. To 2006. I mean, you wouldn't fucking believe it. Is it the same haircut or is different versions of that? Is he keeps doing a different one and all of them are a miss, a major miss and he's got great hair to work with.

He's got thick hair. I was gonna say, is that a hair problem? No, tons of hair. Two, I mean, crazy amount of hair. Yeah, so this evolved. He's famous for driving Rolls Royces and stuff and we were pretending someone said like, Pete, you gotta spend more than $5 on a haircut.

He's like, no, I'm not. I spend $5. I cut the front and then someone else cuts the back. And once we figured out that he was cutting the front and that's what was going on, and once you realize that did explain exactly what was fucked up about all of his hairdos, it looked like someone different cut the front than the back.

So then we decided he cut the front, I cut the front. I can see it. And then I pay the guy in the locker room $5. He cuts the back. Oh my God, were we off to the races with that? If you're looking at his haircut while that realization's happening, it was transcendent. Yeah.

That's fun. It's a real, it's real fun. I wonder if he was doing some identity stuff like you do, which is that you have all this fancy shit, but you want to remain like a man of the people. Well, I don't think that was his motivation. There's no way for us to know. Is he dead?

No, no, no, no. They showed, he's not dead. He's 81 in the doc, but that was 22, so he's probably 83. They showed him as a young man, before the Rolls Royces. Before the paydays. But I mean, maybe, but no, that's what I'm saying. Maybe he's like, exactly, like I'm still me. I see, yes, yes, yes.

Well, it was a major ding ding ding because I've given myself like three or four haircuts in the last six days. So I happen to be personally on a tear of cutting my hair. Maybe that's why it occurred to me he's cutting the front of his hair. Because just yesterday I was like, I gotta cut the back. Like I gotta-

Did you do some more lines? No, I just, I had done lines a few days ago on my sides and then I didn't touch the back. And then every time I'm working out I get these glimpses of the back of my hair is a little too long. So then I got the two mirrors out yesterday and got the clippers and I actually did the back.

Got it. I've been in there, every time I go in front of the mirror for the last four or five days, I'm in there with the scissors. I do, I see one little spot and I'm all over it. I did a bit of trimming this morning. When the sun hits the mirror and I'm like, what the fuck? What's happening?

Well, okay, this started with, I finally pulled the trigger on my, it was getting so out of control. I know it's the age and the, like my chest hair is like fucking a foot long all of a sudden. That's the change. The hair starts getting longer and longer. Yeah, wild. Have you noticed your armpit hair at any point being like two feet long? I shaved it here. I just started cutting. Oh no, it Yeah, wild. Have you noticed your armpit hair at any point? Being like two feet long?

I shaved it here. I just started cutting. Oh no, it's, yes, it's a foot long. That just occurred to me like six months. I'm like, I pull some arm hair now, I go, what the fuck? Why is that? I'm so glad.

Yeah, I could have braided it. So I'm like, Jesus Christ. I'm so glad we're talking about this because I feel like half of my fucking life now is maintaining myself I cut my toenails this morning. I'm so sick of the I just cut my toenails on my finger I feel like I just did it and then I'm shaving the back of my neck cuz that hair is popping out I'm trimming my fucking It's exactly what I felt like. This is what our whole lives are about.

It's endless and it's like this ocean. It's just coming and coming and coming. It's not gonna stop. We had a session, Ruthie and I, out on the patio and I was trying to, my intention was to let her clean up some areas, some patches that really are looking ridiculous. So she did, and then she went back to reading her book maybe, and I was like, well, I have these tremors.

So I'm like, let me just put a guard on and chop a couple inches off of this chest hair. We'll start there, right? And before I knew it, I had shaved down bare chested. And I was like, well this is crazy. And oh my god, yeah, this got so wild. I couldn't stop staring at myself in the mirror. And I was like-

Were you feeling sexy? Very. I was like, yeah, like my nipples were real hard. And I was like very hard. Yeah, like my nipples were real hard and um, and um, that was like very hard. And um. Oh my God. Wow. So, the best part of this, and she'll kill me,

but I've told some people already, the best part of this is. So it's fine. Yeah, it's fine. Um, we were having a lovemaking session, but I've told some people already. It's the best part of this. Yeah, it's fine. Yeah, it's fine. We were having a lovemaking session and at some point she goes, are you seriously staring at your own chest right now? I stopped to mid-pump and I was looking at myself.

In a mirror? No, just looking at myself. In a mirror? In a mirror. No, I was just down at myself. Oh my God. That is great. Oh my God. That's great. That's great.

Yeah, that's great. It's all grown. It's all. Oh, it's back? Oh, yeah, turns out it comes back pretty quickly. A couple hours. Why don't you get it lasered if you like it so much? Um, I don't like it that much.

I think it's very strange. I look, um. This is the thing about perverted things. And I relate to them so much. They're really great, just cause they're novel. They wear off really quick. Like, you might be staring at that and spraying. They feel like it's sexy.

Right. And you might be staring at it and spraying for a's sexy. Right, and you might be staring at it and spraying for a couple days. And then you look at it one time and you're like, I look ridiculous. And the fantasy's completely over. Thank you, yeah. That's what happens, right?

Totally. Like I remember one time shaving all of my pubic hair off. And same thing, I looked in the mirror and was like, oh my God, this is so exciting. I'm like a porn star. And then four days later I'm like, that looks ridiculous, this is so exciting. I'm like a porn star. And then four days later, I'm like, I look, that looks ridiculous and gross. And it turned.

But the excitement of something new happening down there, with all that old equipment. I'm telling you, just tell me about it. Wow. Oh man. Nothing wrong with a little excitement now and then. Sure. I wanna do some little excitement now and then. Sure. I want to do some facts, okay?

Okay. Okay, so the Mormon church, we're talking about how they separate men and women for a part of it. And I asked someone we know who is familiar with the Mormon church. I got current information about what happens in church. Cause she said, I don't know if this still happens that way.

And that's how I wanted to make sure. Church is now two hours cut down from three, twice a month, the women go to relief society. The men go to elders quorum. And then the alternate weeks there in Sunday school called gospel doctrine, which is men and women. Primary is for ages three to 11. It's every week.

Youth is 12 to 18. They follow a similar schedule to the grownups where they alternate with Sunday school one week and then the next are split to go to young men plus young women. So they alternate. So it sounds like they're phasing it in. Because they alternate because the last hour, yeah.

So it is, I guess it is still broken up, but also there's more mixing. Right, it's changing. Was three and a half. Which look, I applaud. That's one of my complaints about religion, is it gets locked in and there's just no evolution. Oh, I wonder what Aaron's Enneagram is.

I don't know him well enough. I know Aaron well enough. I don't know Enneagram's well I don't know them well enough. I know Aaron well enough. I don't know Enneagram's well enough. Well, but we have to take the test. Oh, okay. Should we try? Sure.

How long is the test? It's fast. Okay. Okay, Aaron, you're gonna answer this. Okay. It's, I'm gonna say something and you're gonna tell me inaccurate to accurate, but it's one, two, three. It's, I'm gonna say something and you're gonna tell me inaccurate to accurate, but it's one, two, three, it's one to five.

One being inaccurate, five being accurate. So you can do your little toggle. Okay, I strive for perfection. Two. Okay, I work hard to be helpful to others. Three. It is important to. Can I just say really quick,

I'm already having this sensation I have when you and I take these tests or if I were to take one with Kristen and I'm just listening. Because of course I know Erin so well, so it's just very like tempting- To want to weigh in. Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Well, you can weigh in, but I want always to hear Erin's answer first. Of course, of course. Okay, it is important to me that other people like me. Five. It is important to me to achieve great things. Three. I make more significant contributions

than the average person. Two. I feel my emotions very deeply. Two. I feel my emotions very deeply. Five. A hundred. Five.

I have a sense that other people will never truly understand me. Five. A hundred. Five. A hundred. A hundred. I have a sense that other people will never truly understand me. Five. Awe. Awe. Awe. Awe. Awe.

Awe. Awe. Awe. Awe. Awe. Awe. Awe. Awe.

Awe. Awe. Awe. Awe. Awe. Awe. Awe. Awe. Awe. Awe. Awe. I think deeply about things. Five. I am prepared for any disaster.

Two. I like to be around people who I can help. Three. Three. I told you. I'm sorry, that was the only one I had to do it on. I like to feel that I'm an important person in my social groups.

Five. I seek excitement. Three. 20. Really? No. I was gonna say four, yeah, four. He just told me, let me just say something.

Okay. We were just chatting, and. He just told me, let me just say something. We were just chatting, and he's been driving Uber, right? Mm-hmm, oh yeah. And he's like, ideally, my route takes me deep downtown where no one will pick people up. That's my favorite. And I'm like, duh, that's why I wanna work at 7-Eleven. Yeah.

But is that excitement seeking? I think it's arousal seeking. Yeah, maybe, arousal though is, eh. But he said four and I'm, I. I told this story on here where he picked up a guy and wearing a ski mask and he let him get in the car and drove to work, like that's something to me that's really looking for some excitement.

I found out more about the ski mask. Oh. Because after that, I see them, and it's like a... It's a style. It's a fashion thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's insane to get in someone's car with a full ski mask on.

It is a lot. You're asking for a lot. In the middle of summer. A lot of good faith. Yeah, you definitely are. Holding a pistol in a bag with a dollar sign on it. A dollar sign. Tell me to step on it.

Ready? We have like a few more pages. A few more pages. Okay, I'm good at seeing the bright side of things when others complain. Four. Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do. I like to do things as I've always done them. Four.

I'm sorry, here's pause. I do, it is funny answering this now and maybe what I would have answered a year ago even. But. I know, that's what's hard about these tests. But I'm. I know that's what's hard about this test. But I think. I'm really trying to answer now. It's very hard to not think what have I always been like.

I know. That is the struggle because you're like, well 95% of my life I was this way. So if we're trying to find out who I really am, it's maybe that. But actually you're trying to find out what number you are today. And what is really am? Really am is nothing. Truly, your context dependent. it's maybe that, but actually, you're trying to find out what number you are today. It's not a year ago.

And what is really am? Really am is nothing. Truly, you're context dependent. I want people to admire me. Five. I want to achieve a lot in my life. Really quick, does anyone answer one till I want people to admire me?

It seems like such a primal desire. Could anyone? I think some people don't care about that. Yeah, I guess the non- The word admire is very specific. Approval seekers. I wanna achieve a lot in my life. Five. Five.

Five. Five. Five. Five. Oh, okay. And what month were you born? July. J2C baby.

J2C? Is it June or July? July. Okay. We interviewed a J2C baby. June or July? July. Okay. We interviewed a J2C today. July 2nd. Yeah, your birthday. That was fun for me.

Was it? It was because I didn't always have the same number as you, but only one time in those 100 questions were we on opposite sides of three. Oh, that's interesting. If that makes sense. I was always in the same zone as you were. Yeah. Yeah, that was fun. Like I was always in the same zone as you were. Yeah, interesting. Okay, you ready?

Yes. Ready. You're a seven, that's the enthusiast. It says sevens are defined by their desire to experiencing everything good and pleasurable that the world has to offer while avoiding pain, boredom, and limitations. Although sevens appear enthusiastic and fun-loving,

deep down they have a fear of getting stuck in negative emotions. Let's see about your wings. That's pretty good. Okay, so you have a six wing. Sixes are loyal, responsible, and safety-conscious people who want to make the world safe and secure for the people they care about.

At their core, their fear is not being able to survive on their own, so they rely on people, institutions, and beliefs to provide them with support while also being deeply skeptical and wary of those who may not deserve their trust. It takes some time to put their trust into someone or something, but when they do, they are exceedingly loyal.

Is it all adding up? You're very loyal to a fault one might argue. No, yes, it is adding up. Exciting! Thank you. So Aaron's a seven. Oh. I liked that we got to learn about Aaron.

Oh, seven. Was that all on Juneau? Oh, seven. It's gonna be. It's gotta be. It's four hours later. Well, sometimes you have to take this in. I wasn't complaining, I enjoyed it.

What, is your forewing coming out now? Your three. Shut up! Shut up! Let me see if I can. Shut your ass. Shut your ass, your teeth is showing. I think mine.

Oh my God, what if you took the test right now? Okay. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha But to go with who you are today, who you've been like your whole life. That's really the hard part. Yeah, it's like you're trying to figure out if they're trying to evaluate your disposition or your current state. Right. Well, love you guys.

Love you, Monty. Even loyalty, I've talked about this a lot on here, but loyalty was a very important thing when my behavior was worse. Yeah. And now that my behavior's not that bad and you don't have to put up with a lot to be friends with me, it doesn't matter as much to me.

I don't really think about it like I used to. Loyalty was number one for a long time. You were the first one really to tell me, it was getting sober, how can I not be loyal to these friends? Yeah. And it was that thing. And you're kind of bound together by the other people

also need loyalty, because they too are fucking you over pretty often. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was really hard to figure out and then, and now it just makes a lot more sense. It would be like eighth on my list of someone I wanted to be friends with. I don't even know if it would even come up now

and it used to be probably top two. Definitely. All right, sorry Monica, we were ending it. Love you. Love you guys. Love you. Love you guys. Love you. Love you. Love you.