Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Kirby

Episode Date: July 1, 2024

Kirby (Sugar, Barry, The Good Place) is an actor. Kirby joins the Armchair Expert to discuss where she got her sense of style, her mom’s love of American celebrity gossip, and how representation is starting to change in television and film. Kirby and Dax talk about how acting careers differ in England and America, what getting negative feedback in drama school does to you, and her relationship with her own appearance. Kirby explains why healthy arguing in relationships is important, how her accent makes people think she’s smarter, and how she got involved in activism. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. This is Dax, I'm joined by Padman. Is that the one you're going with? Oh, I, oh. I thought you were going down to one name. I am, I guess you're right, I should go by Padman because there's already another Monica, the singer, who goes just by Monica.

Oh, really? Yeah, so unfortunately I have to go by Padman. Padman's cooler. It's pretty cool. It's solid. We're saying that, of course, because our friend Kirby is here. Kirby is an actor.

I think maybe Kristen first met her on House of Lies. Really? I think that's where. Or Veronica Mars? No, I think it was, I think the order was House of Lies but I could be wrong but then Good Place, then Veronica Mars. Lots of crossover.

Then Queenpins, ding ding ding, a lot of people have seen Queenpins. Kirby was also in Why Women Kill, The Sandman, Killing Eve, Cruella. And currently she is in Sugar on Apple TV Plus. And she's our favorite. She's so cool. she's our favorite. She's so cool.

She's the coolest. She is the coolest. She's cool guy all the way. All day, all night. And then sexy boy, wait, sexy man. Sexy man, she's also a sexy man. And then best boy. And then best boy, and just barely any best boy.

She doesn't have much best boy. No, she don't need it. She's bad to the bone. Please enjoy Kirby. Make your nights unforgettable with American Express. Unmissable show coming up? Good news. We've got access to pre-sale tickets so you don't miss it.

Meeting with friends before the show? We can book your reservation. And when you get to the main event, skip to the good bit using the card member entrance Let's go seize the night That's the powerful backing of American Express visit amex.ca YMX benefits vary by card other conditions apply Come in! Yeah, I'm in!

Oh good, sometimes it smells terrible like food. Can I say something? I almost expected it to not smell good. Oh sure! It smells great in here. It's a brody attic. Well that's what you always say though, but actually it's lovely in here. I feel terrible. You know when you have this really instigating moment, but it means something.

Just now Rob, when you were letting Amy Poehler out, I was coming in and she waved and then I didn't, you know like I was, my brain was, yeah I was also thinking about the baby and whatever and then I looked away and then you know you go to wave back but they're not looking anymore. Now I'm like, this is one of those things that you think about that the other person doesn't think about at all. I try to tell my mum that a lot because she takes things really personally. That person, what are they looking at? And I'm like, most of the time people are not ever thinking about you. Like that, like I'm like in my brain thinking, where should I park?

Cause the baby and I know Chris is coming. Like that's my thought. And so then you don't see a wave. Yeah. So my sister-in-law has this incredible hack, which is she works at a retail clothing store or has in the past manages one and she'll be helping someone find a blouse

and the person will be on their fourth or fifth option that she brings to them and When they're still on the inside of the changing room and they can't see her they'll be saying like I just don't know if I look Good in red or whatever and she'll say do you know what color shirt I'm wearing now She's just helped them five times. Yes, I've been dealing with them for half hour. Yeah, and Most times they'll go, oh my God, I'm so embarrassed, I don't. And she'll go, I only say that to show no one's really thinking about what anyone's doing.

No, they're 100% not. Yeah. That would so be me, I'd go, oh boy. Blue, I would pick a high percentage. Yeah. I wonder what is the highest black, probably, of people wearing right now, in the country. The highest percentage is probably black. Black, but you know I've noticed there's a real, of people wearing right now, in the country.

The highest percentage is probably black. Black, but you know I've noticed there's a real neutrals trend happening right now, isn't it? Everyone's wearing like sandy colors. I love sand. You do? Yeah. Hey, enjoy it.

When it's done well, it's not my default. Black is my default. But you also rock color like crazy. Yeah, you do. I do love color. I think this is a gift of you guys being brown. Yeah, it is a gift. It helps, yeah.

Like if a white guy wears a bright red suit, it's nuts. It begs a question. Well, or a little like, how much attention do you need in this one? Yeah, how much attention do you need? Or also like, that's a bold choice. It feels like you're going for best or worst dress. Whereas I think if you have like dark skin

and you're wearing color, it's just, this looks good. No, it does, it does. I do love wearing a nice little color pop yeah when you go on top just watch three in a row you on Kimmel oh yeah and you let it rip I did let it rip yeah the first one was a really outrageous red outfit with your girlfriend I did a red suit and that's when I cut my hair and went crazy dyed it blonde you know it's funny is I'm thinking of a different red outfit but yes you had a pink and red outfit that's my favorite one that's one of my favorite things I've ever worn.

That's my favorite look on you. I've only known you for a short period and I've gotten to see you in like 20, 30 hairstyles. You've seen so many hairstyles. Should we shout out the brands? Yes, I was going to say, Wiederhofft is the suit. I think they're an incredible brand. That's one of my favorite things I've ever, ever, ever worn. I'd love to wear more of their stuff.

And then my hair was done by Erin Courtney. She's a really incredible braider. That makeup was Brandi Allen. Where do you find the braider? Is this in the common stew of hair people on sets? No, this is certainly not. So this braider, I saw her because Willow Smith had really great braids. She tagged this braider Erin, and then that's how I found her.

It's great. But then every time I want to delete Instagram, I'm like, that's what he says. It's a resource. It's a resource. It really is. And for things like that. It's so easy to find someone and see their work You do discover people. Can we do five on Willow? What do you mean? What's five minutes? But maybe even laughs She's like chat for five minutes Research and I haven't let's talk about it. I think she's fantastic. I don't think that's like a... Common term. A colloquial American thing.

I think that probably sounded weird to everyone. I'm kind of newly in a rabbit hole of hers. Okay, yeah. And funny enough, ding ding ding for you and I, we were driving through the mountains of Tennessee together and I was playing my favorite songs. Yep. And only one really hopped out at you that I know of and it was Hiatus Coyote. Is that Willow Smith? No. Okay. But you were like, what the fuck is this? songs and only one really hopped out at you that I know of and it was hiatus coyote.

Is that Willow Smith? No. Okay. But you were like, what the fuck is this? I've never heard this. I felt flattered and validated that you liked one of my songs and I just listened to her new music Willow and it's very hiatus coyote. Okay.

So now I need to go back and see, cause I do this. I'm like, I love that song. And then I don't write it down or add it to a playlist. I didn't think I texted it to you. I went that far. Oh, shit. No, look, you don't need to lie about it. It's really embarrassing. What kind of show am I wearing?

All of us. Okay, well, I am going to go back. Hiatus Coyote. I'm going to have to say it like four times. I'll have to get you to text me again. Willow Smith. I think she's fantastic. I think she's so out of this world, alien child, very cool. And that face is really something to study. Insane.

Because it's Will Smith. I mean, she looks so much like Will Smith, but she's so beautiful like Jada. So beautiful, yeah. It's pretty wild, you know, if you ever ask yourself, like, I wonder what Will Smith would look like as a beautiful lady, and it's been answered. Yeah, but do you think he would? I don't know if he would look exactly like that.

Oh, no. I mean, it's almost, but I know what you mean. That's the funny thing, actually, because I feel like this about Romeo Beckham. Romeo Beckham has Victoria Beckham's face. And even though David Beckham is obviously beautiful, but that's what makes him beautiful. So were you already hip to Beckham?

Like, we watched the doc, Monica and I, and we became obsessed with Beckham. Me, maybe more than her. Oh, wow. Okay, sorry. I just looked up Willow Smith, and I implore everyone right now who's listening to look her up currently, because I haven't seen her in a minute.

And you're right, she does look a lot like Willow Smith. That's so fucking beautiful. So beautiful. She is stunning. And then also I want those teeth she has. Did you have a jewel on your tooth for a minute? Was that ever a phase you had? No, did I?

No, it feels like something I would have done. Oh, for sure. I feel like maybe you're right. I'm inclined to be like, Dax, no. Don't say that. No, but that does feel... But I kind of think you did. I feel like I did it.

This is the same thing with the hairstyle. I also love the outward expression of yourself. And I'm like, a jewel tooth, because I spent a very long time trying to find a good grill for a while. You know, my mum used to have a gold tooth, and I thought it was the coolest thing. I didn't realize the stigma that came with having a gold tooth. One, just in general, and two, as a black woman.

Essentially, people think, well, we were poor. I think people look down on you. I don't know if it's the same here. It's seen in England, I feel like, as kind of trashy, kind of a little, like, poor. Ghetto rich. Exactly. Yes, yes. You put your money in your mouth, literally. That's what it's seen as. But I always just thought my mom was the coolest. Like, she had this gold tooth and she had another one. And then she kind of, I think, just grew out of it and got rid of it.

So she was funky as well, because you're funky. Oh, my mom's crazy funky. I got to show you a picture. Do you want to see a picture? Yeah. This is my mom's shirt. She gave it to me. Okay, I didn't know this about you. Ugh, I'm going so fast. But what's fun about this is you and I have known each other now for a few years

and I don't know any of this information I'm about to find out. But she owned clothing stalls, is that accurate? She still has a stall, which I sometimes work at when I go back to London. Oh, you do? It's the funniest thing. I've actually a couple of times been recognized, people will be like, are you? And I'm like, yeah, but today I'm just working. I'm just my mom's daughter.

Just my mom's daughter. It's in Camden. So she used to do Camden, well it was, the ballroom. So the ballroom is like a big club in Camden, punk kind of grunge, you know, like there's big two level massive clubs. And on a Sunday during the day, it would be a market. So everyone would come in and sell. And so my mom used to do a store there and she brought me there.

So I kind of grew up in the market. My best friend lived in the flats opposite. So sometimes they would babysit and we'd hang out. The flats in Camden, they're now above the church, but people would know, like above the Sainsbury's, there's a block of flats. This is a deep cut for the Brits, they'll know that. Or Londoners, I guess, not Brits in general.

Yeah, the people in Essex might be. Yeah, yeah, and also people say that a lot of Londoners think that England stops at the top of the M5. We all think that too. Yeah, yeah, exactly, you're like, what's the rest of it? No, when I see like English hillbillies and stuff, or English white trash, I'm like, where'd these folks come from?

I thought everyone was in a top hat and like educated. Like there's a fair amount of fucking hicks in England. 100%, it's like here, but it's smaller. We just have less space for everyone. I love that you grew up in a market. That's my dream. Really? Well, Monica loves malls.

I love malls, I love shopping. Oh, you'd love it. She still does markets. She does Earlham Street, that's in the West End, and she does Brick Lane, and that's in East London. And where does she pull all the clothes that she ends up selling? From everywhere.

So sometimes she makes stuff, then she gets them from different people. Like she's done it my whole life. She customizes a lot of stuff, it's like handmade. Is that the only job she ever had when you were growing up? She had to supplement it. So when I was really young, maybe one to four or something, she had a shop in Charlton Street,

and then she did these markets on the weekends and then had tons of other jobs. She's always had two or three jobs at once. She's a single mom as well with two of us. This is her passion, and as she's gotten older, she's found a way. And obviously her kids are now financially independent, so she doesn't need as much.

So the main thing is doing the markets. Do you ever try to give her money, and how does that go? I do, but sometimes now I got her bank details, I'll just drop it in her bank account. Okay, that's cleaner. Yeah, it's much cleaner. She might even be able to fool herself into thinking she just forgot she had more than she had.

It's like, wow, my market. Yeah, I'm doing really well. Well, you know the funny thing about my mom is that she is incredible and deserves the world, but doesn't really think she does. It's such a funny thing. Even just going out for a nice meal, my mom's like, oh my god, this much for food?

And her thing is she always goes like, I could make this at home, which she couldn't. No, she didn't have an e-fryer. She doesn't have any of those ingredients. You know, it's that clay pot they cook in in the Indian restaurants. Oh yeah. The tandoori oven.

Yeah. You don't have a tandoori oven. Yeah, like we went to Din Tai, she's like, I could make this. It's like, mom, you've never even heard of these spices. Exactly. You wouldn't know a Szechuan pepper for eating with a Szechuan. You never learned to's like, I can make this. It's like, mom, you've never even heard of these spices. Exactly. You wouldn't know a session on pepperpating. You never learned to speak Mandarin

before you even started this. Yeah. That's a generational thing. So I just drop it in. I think it's generational. This kind of like, I don't need anything, no fuss. What's her story? How long had your family been in England?

So my mom, okay, so let me just. Yeah, you handled this first. Yeah, you handle it. And text it to me. Should I handle the picture first? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, the funny thing is, she was in one of the people. You know, it has like people and then albums.

Oh, I thought you were saying she was in People magazine. No, imagine, she would die. I mean, she's gonna probably hate that I even spoke about her. Very private. She thinks you're tapping her phone right now. Is she gonna listen to this? If I direct her to the link, she might listen to it.

But if I don't, she won't necessarily find it because you're not on YouTube. If you're on YouTube, she'd find you in a heartbeat. You'd be dead. Yeah. My mom too. This is my mom. Text it to me.

Oh text it to you. Yeah I want to hold her. Okay please yeah yeah yeah okay. Dax loves moms and dads. I do love moms and dads you're right. Okay yeah I'm gonna text you a couple. I'm gonna sink my teeth in. And apparently we look alike but I don't know any...

Oh that's fun that'll be a fun game to see if we think so. Yeah, she's totally rad. You'll never see her like not in a hat. Oh yeah, she looks awesome. Yeah, she looks awesome. And she's eating a dish she could never cook. She's eating like an enchilada or something. She loves them.

Listen, I thought I discovered Mexican food. We don't have like a lot of Mexican food in England. My mom has discovered Mexican food in her late 50s and she's like, I love this dish. What is this? Off to the races. She can't get enough of it. Yeah, she's really funky. Where do you think she got the confidence for that? I'm going to send you one more picture. This is like four generations of women. It's my nan, my mom, me and my niece. My nan passed away in 2020. So you say, where does she get the confidence? My mom is in Aries, which I don't know how much that means to you. It means a lot to Monica. We like this. Can you give us what the traits are?

So I say this because I'm not a big star sign person. I know my own and I'll know specific people. But you know people go, well, what are this? They're rising. I don't know all of that. But the traits I know of an Aries are very strong-willed, very independent. Those are the most I know. Can make most dishes.

Can make every dish. She can taste it, she can make it. Have 10 spices, but can make a bit. Pepper and cumin she can make. Let me tell you some of her traits and you tell me if these also are areas. She's incredibly creative, kind of a creative savant. If she cared for social media or publicizing herself more,

she could do amazing things, could have things on red carpet. She's incredibly creative, but marches to the beat of her own drum. Doesn't read instructions, will put that table together. She doesn't want to follow rules ever. Doesn't want to ever be instructed how to do something. Never. You know what she hated?

When I brought her to set. What happened? She just hates the rules of it. The being quiet and how boring it is. Everything goes over and over and over. Like, she just... Like, get on with it. And I'm gonna talk between action and cut.

I don't care. They're talking. Yeah. Why do they get to talk? Also, like, who made those clothes? I could do that. Also, it's generally like a PA telling your mom to be quiet. So, it's like a 22-year-old that's got to compound it a little bit. Also, my mom doesn't like fuss, right? And if you bring your mom to set,

different if you're someone else, but if you're an actor, it's so much fuss. Every minute, they would knock on the door, like? And if you bring your mom to set, different if you're someone else, but if you're an actor, it's so much fuss. Every minute they would knock on the door, like, do you need anything? She's like, just leave me alone. Fuck off. And then they're checking your wardrobe and your hair and your makeup.

She hated all of that. She's like, people just keep coming in the room. I'm like, well, yeah. That's what I was thinking. I love that she hated it. That's my job. That's my job. So a little stubborn.

Very stubborn. She's beautiful. Oh, can I see the four, Jen? I just want to say one thing before I hand this over. For the listeners, so all four generations are on a couch and everyone's smiling. Everyone has been instructed or intuitively knows to give the peace sign. But Nan is like doing the Girl Scouts pledge of the legion. Her fingers are together.

Yes, yes, yes. So this was when my mom learned deuces. So this was my mom orchestrating. Obviously my niece knows. She's a child. She knows. Yes, yes, yes. So this was when my mom learned deuces. So this was my mom orchestrating. Obviously my niece knows, she's a child. Well, I know, what's deuces? It's like peace, like deuces, like two, you know. But in English you might say deuces? No, I think she got it from YouTube.

My mom loves American TV, drama, all of that. You know, what she loves is, when I was younger, my mom would always read the Inquirer magazine. You know Inquirer, it's just garbage, right? I just told Monica yesterday, the commercial used to be, inquiring minds want to know. Is that what it was? It was posing as some kind of legitimate information.

That you would be an inquiring mind. Like it's a compliment. No, you're a gossiping, you're trash. Gossip hungry trash. It's just a trashy people want to know. So my mom always would read that at the markets, because also you can't get into a book because you have customers coming up all the time. And for some reason, that was her guilty pleasure that was like escape a little bit.

And what that has translated into now is YouTube, video blogs. Does she watch any psychics on YouTube? No psychics, but she can tell you everything. Like she watches Fox Soul, she watches this blogger. She'll be like, oh, did you hear what happened with Krishan Rock and Blueface? I don't know any of this. I've never been into celebrity culture.

I never had posters on my wall of celebrities. Now, if you ask me someone's name, I don't know. That was never my thing. We're gonna earmark that, but continue. March on, march on. So very funny that my mom knows all of that. Are you embarrassed by it? Because if my mother was doing this,

I would go, mother, what the fuck are you doing? That's what I do. Sometimes I do get to my limit. For the most part, she'll call me or even more so is cause now my partner's American and we have American family. Soon as she comes in, she's like, have you heard? Like that's not like talking about the weather.

She'll lead with that. Do you think it's so-and-so's baby? Yeah, exactly, 100%. She knows all that stuff. She's loving the ditties. She knows everything about it. Yeah, so does mine. Oh, she knows everything. Your parents are into it too?

No, my mom specifically knows everything about it. And she is saying it. And I'm like, why do you know this? Yes. Well, and she was following... The Johnny Depp... Oh, I thought you were going to say Jaguar Ryan when you said that. Because I'm like, this is the person my mom's introducing me.

Okay, Johnny Depp. Her mother was following... She didn't miss one second of that court case. She knew everything. I got mad at her. I was like, I'm telling you, you shouldn't care about this. Yeah, yeah. After a while, I'm like, mom, it's just negativity. Like it's just purely feeding on, it's the most negative mind-numbing garbage and she'll be like, I'm just gonna put on my shows. I know it's trash, but then when you're having conversations with me about it.

It's infiltrated. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 100%. Do you know that it is just trash? Because you're talking to me about it. And you know what, I find, I said to my mom the other day, because she was at my house, and if you're here, watch whatever you want, I don't care.

But then, of course, I might be cooking, and so I'm absorbing it. And I said to the next guy, I said, Mom, I think I've got like a trash TV hangover. I've got all this negative information in my brain. I've got nothing I can do with it. It means nothing. I just have people's dirty laundry.

I'm glad you're telling me all this because it does answer the question. Like that used to be an enormous industry, all those terrible magazines. They've gone away. I've been thinking like, well people didn't just stop getting interested in it. What's the outlet now?

And I guess it's this. It's YouTube and then obviously like Instagram. I think people are more interested in TikTok than they've ever been. I've subscribed to this fantasy that Instagram kind of is what neutralize it, which is like you don't have to catch me out on the street. I'm going to show you a picture of myself. Yeah. Maybe not.

You know, like the Andy Warhol quote, like in the future, everyone will have their 15 minutes of fame. And that is obviously Instagram and TikTok. It neutralizes it in terms of the concentration of the base, right? A base will be down here, but I guess I'm doing it at the top. The concentration of celebrity and fame was here before,

and everyone else had to climb to that. Whatever information you could give us, please, we're hungry gods of fame, give it to us. And now, I guess it's more passed out. Well, they're disseminating it themselves. Like, Chris and I used to hate getting followed by the paparazzi, but I'm totally comfortable sharing my life with you as long as I get to select the picture.

Yes. And I just feel like celebrities now feed that machine themselves. Yeah. But celebrity means less now because of Instagram, because people are their own brand. Influencers now are celebrities. Yes.

I've been on like a thousand shows. Back in the day, you would be a known person, but now it's like, well, some people don't even watch those shows, you watch TikTok, or your favorite celebrities are literally just influencers. Okay, I have to ask you this, Dax, I know you do the asking, and you say you hate the paparazzi. Never mind, love.

But I almost feel, and you tell me because you have been doing this for longer, but I feel like I missed out on this golden age of celebrity, if I'm honest. I'm quite a private person. I don't want to know everyone's dirty laundry, and I don't want everyone to know mine. And I almost kind of wish I was in that phase before social media. Do you feel like you got in there? Yes, I think in many ways, Chris and I are both beneficiaries

of a system that doesn't really even exist anymore because we were both able to be in commercials and stuff. And you're so right. I look at your resume and in many ways your resume is better than mine. You've been on a bunch of quality shows, but the landscape's so fragmented that even this really great show is going to be seen by a third of as many people as without a paddle or parenthood be seen by a third of as many people as without a paddle or parenthood was seen by. So yeah it was so centralized or concentrated that you would become famous. Now of course that's a double-edged sword. There's money to go

along with fame which I like but then also it's a pain in the ass too. So it is interesting. You're 36. Yeah I thought this was a blanket by the way that's why I touched it. You're allowed. Oh, you're sitting on one. Oh, this is a blanket, perfect, I'm gonna put this around me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wrap yourself. Yeah, so I guess if you had had the exact same career

and it started 20 years ago, you would probably be able to represent brands and secretly make another couple million dollars a year, but then would it have been harder to get your foot in the door? I don't know, I think there's all these pros and cons. There's pros and cons. If you take everything, like exactly who I am, yes, it would have been harder probably to get your foot in the door? I don't know, I think there's all these pros and cons. There's pros and cons. If you take everything, like exactly who I am,

yes, it would have been harder probably to get my foot in the door because had I come up when you guys were coming up, Gabrielle Union was like the... Yeah, the network needed one black female actress. There was two black actors on 10 Years of Friends, guest stars. Yes, and certainly not one with a weird accent who refuses to straighten her hair.

Yes, we'll take the ring out of her nose. It wasn't going to be me. Or a jewel in her teeth. It was her mom who was bitching the whole time. Yeah, different time. Yeah. That is also completely static. As we were coming up, the time before us did seem better. So I'm so lucky I got to be in a few comedies that did well.

But ten years before me, all comedies did pretty well. There was dozens and dozens of comedies out at the movie theater and they all did pretty well and then just slid, slid, slid. And now there's not a single comedy in a movie theater. You're not gonna see a feature-length comedy in a movie. No, which is so sad. It is. But then again, there's so much fucking brilliant TV. Is there a lot of brilliant comedy? I don't know.

There's a lot of crap. That's what it is. I think there actually is a lot of brilliant everything. I just think you're wading through the crap I feel a little bit like the tide is shifting to be like should we just make crap? That's the thing that bums me out a little bit where it's like We could just make crap because people will still watch people still watch and we'll still make the same amount of money No, this is the really nice part that we got to experience Which I don't know that people now can achieve which is I Was in without a paddle every single 10 to 16 year old boy saw that movie in America I still run into adults that are like

Oh my god My birthday party was that and my camping trip was that it was a real chunk of their life in the same way that the comedies I watch as a kid, but now you're gonna see 65 different shows this year. It's hard to keep them straight Yeah, forget you've watched great series. Yeah, 100%. So I think in that way it's harder to be an actual important part of someone's teenage years. And I think that's difficult for me to reconcile

because I used to literally have like poetry cut out and stuck on my walls. I've always been like an artsy kid. I would make my own clothes and wear them to school. You're always cool. You're bohemian. Yeah. You're always cool, dang it. I didn't know it at school, it didn't seem cool. I never cared.

How did it play? When I was at this Catholic school, it didn't play well at all. I remember one day we were going on a school trip to I think Southampton or Northampton. We all got to shop in our own clothes because we wore uniform to that school. So that's kind of an equalizer.

But we all showed up in our own clothes and that was year eight. Oh my God, okay, I gotta tell you, I remember this trip so specifically because it's when the Twin Towers fell. Oh, no kidding? Yes, yes. Oh my God.

That was shocking. I just spit take of my mint. It's as if I just found out they fell. What? The Twin Towers fell? Not our Twin Towers. But I remember this trip because of the Twin Towers, but actually more so I remember showing up and I was wearing this red and white striped shirt that my mom had given me, like real thin stripes, really cute,

almost like cowboy style with little pop buttons, and then I was wearing flared jeans and light blue Converse and I remember showing up... Very American. Very American. There's some parts of America I've always loved, like I love muscle cars, I love Americana in terms of style and dress, always worn cowboy boots, always loved that stuff. But anyway, I remember a girl saying, ew, what are those?

To my converse, none of the kids at that age are wearing them. Three years later, converse were like in. Right. Then they came in. I was ahead of the curve. I guess I get that from my mom. I kind of march to the beat of my own drum. You have a really interesting personality.

You're a bit of an enigma. Yes, you're very unique. What I think remains endlessly interesting about you is if you were American, I feel like I would be able to explain you a little better as a categorical, stereotypical person where I would think, okay, I kind of get it. This is why she's this way. Because the fact that you didn't even care about actors and stuff isn't shocking, but I think that's really weird if you ended up going into acting.

That's kind of bizarre. Well, I guess from one enigma to another, because you're very much an enigma too, right? Oh. Do you not think? I don't know. Well, as in like, well Monica, I mean. Mixed messages.

Yeah. I think you're yourself 100% of the time all the time, which is very similar to my brother. Is he older or younger? He's five years older, and now we have such a great relationship. I think he's one of the coolest people I've ever, ever met and I will have the pleasure of knowing.

And I also say that mostly because he just came and I kind of like saw him in a whole nother environment. He does not change. This man, there's no element of code switching. He knows who he is. We went to a good, nice steak house and everyone sits there and he got his filet on a T-bone and at the end picked it up. Like bone in, he was like, listen, they know what time I'm on.

I'm eating it. He's like, they served it to me on end picked it up, like bone in. He was like, listen, they know what time I'm on. I'm eating it. Like, he's like, they served it to me on a bone. Like, you know, everyone else is like, I wouldn't dare pick it up. But he's him. And in that way, I feel like you guys would get on so well and you're very similar in that. So I think that in itself to me is slightly enigmatic because I think there's very little of it.

I couldn't say wholeheartedly that there is no change for me, depending on who I'm around. I actually think that's more normal, to be honest. I think never changing is less normal, but I think better and more elusive. So when I say mixed message, well, Monica said mixed messages. But like, you are who you are, and you probably have a certain following that think you're something,

but that is probably maybe some small part of you. You're just very layered, I think. Oh, my God, thank you. This feels very complimentary. Okay, good. Okay, do you look up to the older brother? Now I do very much. But what about when you were young? No.

It sounds like you're more following mom style path. Was older brother also kind of eclectic and interesting? Not in that way, he looks like a homeless person most times. He doesn't care, he said one day, someone tried to give him money, he looked homeless, he was like, yeah, I'll take it. Oh wow, yeah. He's not offended, he's just like, sure,

if you think I'm homeless, I'll be homeless. He just doesn't give a shit. That might be the most confident move I've ever heard. Sure. Yeah. There's a funny thing in my family. They have these traits. Well, I guess just my mom and my brother.

I couldn't tell you my dad because I don't know him well enough. I know who my dad is, but I don't know who my dad is. What age? He wasn't around from about eight-ish and actually more or less from that age, completely out. Did he move? Well, maybe. Not out of the country? No, just from different locations in East London.

He's just, this is me kind of armchair psychologisting, very broken by his own upbringing, and his mom in particular, and so I think doesn't know how to be a dad. I guess that's the best way to put it. Most generous? It's both generous and probably very cutting, because if you don't think that and you've

never heard that, let's say he was to listen to that and hear that, he might not think his child has that thought of him. I don't know what he thinks the thought is. I wonder if you and I have the same dynamic then with my older brother and I, because my dad left when I was three, but my dad left when my brother was eight. So they rode motorcycles together and we had a house with a yard, and then we moved into an apartment. So my brother very much pined for my dad, and I did not at all. Similar, my brother has way different memories of my dad

going places with him and this and that and the other. He was 13. Yeah, my brother himself made more of an effort, because I think he really felt like he needed that man. Yeah, they had a real relationship probably. I don't know if it's pining. My dad's never been a good dad, He's just kind of been a person. But I think that my brother, interestingly enough,

said something the other day, because I think he spent a lot of time being angry at him. And he was like, I just realized that he's just a person, and you just got to be nice to your parents. For you, that's what's funny. It flips. You go like, am I the type of person who's going to be nice in spite of something or not?

Because that's all we're working on is ourselves. But also if you know my brother, who has been very angry for a long time and can be quite a harsh person as well when he wants to be, for him to turn around and say that, I was like, whoa, am I the asshole? Because I'm just like, I don't want any contact. Has he evolved past me?

Wow, you might be on the verge of a totally different thought, which is you now have a little boy. Yeah. That's curious. Yeah. I don't know, who knows how that'll percolate up now? Like, will you think, well, I kind of want him? It could go either way, though.

It could go either way. You could feel like, who could possibly leave a child? I do feel that's crazy, but I'm also not a guy. Just biologically, there's something very different being a mother and being a father. That's just an irrefutable fact. It's not one-to-one. It's also not controllable by your own mind.

There's so much that we want to control, and the world now will tell you you have control. But some things are just biological, and there's certain hormonal things that happen. You have absolutely no control. You have a ton of oxytocin right now. So, cries doesn't sound as loud to you as it does to Larry. Wait, it sounds louder to me.

No. Oh, it's a minute to us? Really? Yes, especially when you're first like four or five months out, you're kind of doped up on your hormones. You're not like missing stuff. You're almost a little tiny bit stoned. Yeah, no, I'm doped up on my hormones for sure. But the crying thing is crazy to me.

You're going to respond. The pitch of it is shaved off. Less grating, and the mom is ready to act. Yes, yes, that makes sense. Because I also feel like even if he's in another room and I hear like, I'm like, the baby! Yes. Way more attuned.

Way more attuned. My senses are on, I feel like that Bradley Cooper film. Oh, Little Little. Yes, yes, yes, yes. But I think if we would have taken you and Larry two years ago and put you in some weird sound test where we played certain frequencies, I bet you would have similar levels of agitation

at those sounds. And then I just bet now if we measured you, it would be diminished a bit. Do you know what I sometimes wonder as well? This is a side note. He's five years younger than me. I sometimes wonder, can he hear sounds still that I can't? You know the whole thing of like,

there's certain sounds. Pitches. Yeah. But maybe it's now we're both over 30, so maybe it's fallen off. Also, men then accelerate their hearing loss so they don't have to hear their wives. This is also like a cut. You always see men with fucking hearing aids. You don't ever see women with hearing aids.

They're just married men. They've done it. I think they're just plugging their ears with the aid. It doesn't even do anything. Kristen just sent me this really funny meme, it can't be a real story. It said this man had faked his own hearing loss, so he didn't have to talk to his wife anymore,

and then she learned sign language to communicate with him, and then he went blind mysteriously. Ah! And then my response to that meme was, I wish I could read this. Wait, I didn't know Larry was five years younger than you. Yeah, he's five years younger than me. Wow.

Kirby's a beast. I'm a beast. God. I remember when you, were you doing House of Lies when you first started dating? No, but I was working with Kristen on, do you remember correctly? Not House of Lies.

Veronica Mars. Exactly, House of Lies, Kristen was pregnant. Oh, right, yes, yes, yes. Veronica Mars, yeah. And I feel like it was new in. Brand new. I mean, literally in the van going back from base to set is when I got the text from my manager who was like, hey, Larry wants to go on a date with you.

Can I give him your number? It was that new. And again, this is back to your originality and your uniqueness where you just said to me point blank, you're like, I don't even know what his personality's like, but he's so fucking hot, I'm definitely going on a date with him. And then you showed me a picture, and I was like, oh my God, it's like fucking young Lenny Craven.

It's impossible you're looking. He's gorgeous. Yeah, he's gorgeous. Who wouldn't go on a date with him? Why wouldn't I? Why wouldn't you? Well, everyone would, but I think especially at whatever moment in time that was, I actually

think most people wouldn't have admitted that. That you would just be like, yeah, I'm going to give this a go because visually this person's very stimulated. Yeah! Well, I think people also want to be like, well, you know, it's a personality. It's like, yeah, obviously. And if someone's gorgeous and they have an awful personality, they start to be ugly and someone can become better looking.

But off the bat, we're animals. He's gorgeous and they have an awful personality, they start to be ugly and someone can become better looking. But off the bat, we're animals. He's gorgeous. And I want to look at him. I want to look at him. Yes. It's like a Ferrari. I'm going to roll the dice with this. It's like, yeah, I hope he has a great personality.

And if he doesn't, then I maybe expected it because he was that good looking, you know? He's even thinking about it in terms of cars. Like, sure, it might be responsible to buy a Prius or something. But the car that's gonna turn your head as you're walking is like a 60s Ferrari drive by, and you're like, oh my God, what was that?

That's gonna get your blood going. Yes, and then we hope for a good personality. Yeah, and then I love the cell. Yeah, that's so nice. Stay tuned for more Armchair expert, if you dare. Okay, when we've spent time together, I am always trying to get this out of you. I'm of course fascinated with the notion that you grew up in England and you're here since 2011 ish? Something like that, like over 10 years.

How did you decide that you were gonna come here and do this? Okay, so I worked at a summer camp and then traveled. That's what we're telling. Yes. Circus. Exactly. What? Okay, yeah, more info.

Well, I worked at a summer camp, which actually there's a lot of people, weirdly one of my agents also worked at that summer camp. She was a CIT, counselor in training, and then she worked in the office, which makes complete sense if you meet her. She wants to be behind that desk. Exactly.

She'll get it done. Anyway, I went traveling after, met a guy in San Francisco. We fell in love. He moved to London and then couldn't stay because of visa stuff. He was tattooing and wanted to tattoo, so he moved here, had an internship. And I was at drama school and was one term in,

so he moved and I started drama school and I absolutely hated it. What's typical in England, also I speak very fast, so forgive me, I'll try and slow it down. People have the option of listening at.7, it's on the app. Oh, that's so cool. So it's on them. Most people listen at two times this year

because we're so long, but this time. Well, that's what they're getting with me. They can choose exactly the tempo they want to hear this at. Oh, that's great. Okay, so it's quite typical to take a gap year. After secondary school, before college, before uni, figure out what you want to do. I didn't get into the drama school I really wanted to get into.

I really wanted to get into Bristol Old Vic. Well, actually, my first year auditioning, I got a callback for Guildhall, which is a very good school. It's where Orlando Bloom went, but he dropped out. And I was like, that's it, I've done it. Very cocky, I was like, I'm in. When I got a callback, didn't get in, and was kind of a bit devastated for the year,

and then the next year tried, and I really wanted to go to Bristol, didn't get into Bristol a bit. So I ended up taking two gap years, because I was like, right, well, I kind of put all my eggs in that basket, let's just take another year. So in the two years, I did more traveling,

I worked as a teaching assistant. I've had a job since I was 14 years old, but I worked full time and worked in bars and all this, so I just did a lot of growing up. had a job since I was 14 years old, but I had worked full-time and worked in bars and all this, so I just did a lot of growing up. So then when I did get into drama school that next year... You'd already been on your own a little bit. I'd already just been on my own a little too much. I was financially independent.

I mean, I still lived at home with my mom, but it was just hard to go back to being in school where they were telling you what to do and when to do it. America is like, if you're the fastest, run the fastest. No one will stop you. In England, it's like, if you're the fastest, run the fastest, no one will stop you. In England, it's like, let's all hold hands and run at the same speed.

And we have a lot of the tall poppy syndrome and things like that. And so that is very difficult if you are someone who's like, well, I wanna run the fastest because I can run the fastest. Or minimally in that direction. Yeah, or minimally just like, I wanna fulfill my own potential.

You know, I just wanna see what I can do. And I was very much beaten down for it in drama school. I had two drama school teachers that hated me in my first year. I went to East 15. I remember one of the people, she was like, we don't have a lot of big stars that come out of this school, but we like it that way.

And in my mind, I was kind of like, oh my God, we love mediocrity, come on. It's like a tech school going like, we haven't produced any inventors. Yes, and we like it that way. But it's also like, do the students. I remember you have to do an end of year... Showcase.

No, no. What's worse than that is they don't let you perform at all into like your third year. Oh, jeez. You do a review. You know when your boss says like, how do you think you're doing? Those things, whatever that review is. We had to do that at the end of each semester. And I remember at the end of my first term, they were like,

how do you think you're doing? And I felt great. Like, I was getting all my coursework in and they ripped me to shreds. They were like, you know, you're not a team player. You go ahead of the class. You don't work with every... Like, they, I mean, they eviscerated me. Two of them tore me to shreds. To the point... Yeah, I absolutely enjoyed it.

And I was like, I'm not coming back for this bullshit. And a girl I went to drama school with, who was a good friend of mine at school, she was like, trust me, it'll get better after your first year. You don't have to deal with them again, so just come back. So I was like, okay, I'll come back for the next semester. Day one of semester two, I was like, what the fuck? That's one thing I think I got from my mom.

I have a very strong sense of self. I know myself. And I was like, I know I'm not meant to be here. And I'd met this guy and we were in love. And at that point, he was still living in London, but it was sort of in the works to come here. And I was just like, what am I doing? I hate this place. I don't think it can do anything for me.

And so he had moved here and was like, well, why don't you do classes out here or something? And it wasn't this big, I'm going to come to Hollywood. It was just like, that's an adventure. That feels fun. Why don't I just try that? Yeah, I assumed you assessed the opportunities in London and then you assessed the opportunities in New York or LA

and said, I will go there because I want. Not at all, it was more like, he's there. I didn't have anything in London too, I didn't have an agent. And to me, I genuinely was just like the adventure of it all. I think maybe it's the folly of youth or the beauty of youth actually is you don't think too hard about stuff, which also is like why we can't give kids extreme power

because you can't even think too far ahead. Month out is maybe max. Yeah. Well, you literally don't have, your frontal lobe isn't even developed. Yeah, so I'm like 21 and I'm not thinking like, you don't have a visa, you don't have finances, you don't have family money, you have no safety net.

I literally was like, I have my grant that I was given for the next semester that I hadn't given to the school yet, and I have some student loan money. So that's 5,000 pounds. That'll last me forever. That's like more money than I'd ever had. And that was probably like 8,000 US dollars.

Yeah, 100%. I was like, you have 5,000 pounds. Go to America, you can make it. Go buy a house. Buy a car. I mean, I'll be famous to America, you can make it, I'm rich. Go buy a house, buy a car. I mean, I'll be famous in three weeks. This is enough to get me through. I was like, I'll have an Oscar by the time I'm 23.

Right. This is all I need. Had you done comedy in England at all? Not directly, but another jab that I got a lot from drama school was that I was too comedic, that I didn't take it seriously. I always made things comedic, like even if it was dramatic, I would make it funny and that was bad. I think the subtext of everything they were saying

was you're not grateful enough to be here. Dax, you've nailed it on there 100%. That was the subtext. I remember even auditioning for Radar and one of the things that they would say is, we break you down so we can build you back up. Yeah, Julia says that too. That was what they said.

But actually what I think they do in a lot of those schools is they knock any individuality out of you and they homogenize you and you kind of almost see that in a lot of the performances that come out of it. It's like very by the book. I get it when you go to art school, right? You have to learn certain techniques. I think Picasso said, you know, you have to learn the rules so you can break the rules. But I don't think it's quite the same in acting.

No, you can definitely lose something along the way. Yes. They very much kind of wanted that. And I think I refused to let the life be knocked out of me. And that was not the way. They're like, be the instrument almost like of the school. You're the vessel only. And you're to bring nothing of yourself. Yes, and that's, I think, complete opposite of acting.

You have to bring so much of yourself. Yeah, well, minimally, you just look at the people you liked. And are they the people that were homogenized? In fact, I'm even more intrigued. I wanna meet them in real life because I get a hunch they're a little bit dark or a little bit this. So when you get here, how does UCB hit your radar

and why do you decide to start there? I was working at a cafe that I started working at illegally. Honestly, the owner was kind of terrible, but also for this kind of great that he let me work there. And there was a girl there, she did UCB. So the way I got enough of a visa to stay was I started taking classes at Lee Strasburg. So I had like a student visa. So I was taking classes there and then working at this cafe because obviously my

five thousand pounds run out. Shockingly. Shockingly. I couldn't make it stretch. I didn't invest well or something. So, imagine, I still don't even know what investments are. I'll invest $4,000. That'll be yielding me at least $6,000 a year. It's amazing how quickly that money goes. You know what's funny is there's all these things online that are like, you could take $5,000 and become a millionaire. It's like, show me. Show me how to invest $500,000.

Yeah, exactly. But yeah, anyway, so I started doing those classes, and then I was doing Actors Access, and all the other ones, I've forgotten the names, but I would like self-submit. So, you know, I was doing student films, and then also trying to do little auditions, and just kind of feeling like nothing was happening.

I did loads of different other classes. Would you do these things where at the end of it, there'd be like a workshop, and there'd be casting? I did showcase so many. Okay, I'll tell you something about those. I did so many of those casting workshops where you pay and I know people have mixed feelings about them, but I think they're fantastic. Oh, great.

Really? I think they were one of the few equalizers that we actually had left as actors that didn't have their foot in the door. I don't think I'd even be sitting here if I didn't do them. Sure, there were some casting directors that were just money grabbers,

but the first thing I ever tested for, I had zero credits. No agent, no lawyer, no nothing. And I tested because I went to one of those showcases and I did it with a casting director, and I wish I could remember their name, but the show was called A to Z. I auditioned for that. The lady who cast that, she was like, you're great, you didn't audition for that show there,

you just bring some sides and you audition. There was this glint in her eye, and she brought me into the office like separately outside of that, and I got to the test stage, just kind of on my own merit, like at the test had to find a lawyer because you know you have to get that all done, but that was through workshops,

and then once I was got taken away, it almost was like, how do you get an audition if you don't have an agent and you don't have a manager? How do you ever get in the door? Oh, I completely agree. I was out here forever and I had friends that had agents and they were going on commercial auditions. I could not figure out like what on earth.

I did not get an agent until I was in the Sunday Company at the Groundlings performing once a week. And even then it was dicey and I had an agent who went out of business while shooting the pilot of Punk'd. Like literally went bankrupt. I also had no idea you were in the Sunday Company. You didn't? No! I'm terrible, I've done no research.

This is great, this is our chance. Well this piece is the fact that I don't care about celebrity. I just never research anything. Okay, so UCB, that is one of the ways. So I was not having any success. A girl who I worked at the cafe, she was at UCB and she was on a Harold team. Well really quick Monica,

was there any overlap between Kirby and you? A little, maybe. You know Monica worked at the front desk. Oh yes, Monica. And I interned, and I was on a billion teams. I was never on a Harold team though. I think there was overlap because when I came over here, I'd known you, because I interned too.

Right. I interned when there was just Franklin. Exactly. So we were, but we never had any classes together. No, I think you were maybe ahead of me. My first class, I wish I could even tell you the year of my first class. I feel like you were interning before I was,

like maybe when I was just going there. But anyway, she had said to me, you should try it. And I tried 101. I used to do these classes in London called the Anishirr Theatre. That was like my kiddie. But it was more like a community center, honestly. And that was my introduction to acting.

It's what made me want to be an actor. And the class was part acting, part dance, part learning about Mahatma Gandhi. It was run by this old hippie. It wasn't like a stage school at all. When I went to UCB, it felt like that again. It felt like after years and like going through the ring of drama school and then, you know, auditioning wasn't fun,

because I also wasn't getting anywhere. Playfulness is the currency there. And shining is rewarded. Yes, yes. And standing out is rewarded. Is rewarded, exactly. And UCB felt pure, felt rebellious, felt punk. Punk rock, yeah.

Yeah, I haven't been there for so long. It started to feel less of that the more it grew, as is the nature of these things, kind of like markets in London. They become victims of their own success. They get commercialized and things like that. The nature of improv is so fleeting and truly no one cares.

You care a lot when you're doing it, but you can't really explain it to anyone outside of it. Oh, there's nothing worse than when you do an improv show and you're at the whatever after party and people are trying to explain or walk through this improv thing and you're like, all right, without the high wire act, it's terrible.

Terrible. Yeah. And that's why it doesn't work on TV. 100% why it doesn't work on TV. There's no stakes. Yeah, and then also if you're not in it and steeped in it, Monica, maybe you can attest to this, when I say like it doesn't matter,

now that I'm not really doing shows, if someone asked me to do a show, I'm like, absolutely not. We did one together though. That was a very fun show. That was so fun and I had an improv in like a decade. Well, that's the only time it's fun, is when you get to play with your friends. So now if someone asked me to do a show,

if it's not with all my friends, it's also kind of like a social thing. Then it's just not fun. Of the many amends I owe Brie, the woman I was with for nine years, probably the number one is that she had to suffer through every Sunday night after a show where we all got drunk and went through every sketch and every improv. Fish for compliments. I mean, what a thing for her to have had to have observed.

My ex was with me through the improv stage. He came to every show willingly. He wanted to. Yeah, yeah, yeah, she was there. Listen, the show's fun. The show is fun. It's the arse is, yeah, you're right. The six hours of sucking each other off afterwards.

It's so true, that is what we do. The drunker you get, just the more sucking happens, and then you're sucking yourself off. Yeah, you are, and you're so brilliant in the moment. You're just like, what, and then that cool back. How do we do that? How do we do that? I gained a great awareness of it

because my sister went through after I did. I let her host after their big, to get into the Sunday Company show, whatever, maybe the fourth level show. And I let her host it at my old house, and I just kind of was like in and out of the kitchen every now and then, and I would just catch the snippets of them. And I was like, oh, Christ, that's what I did to Bree. Yeah.

Oh. Well, it becomes really cringy when you're not part of it, but when you're part of it, it's so pure. It's so special. That's what's pure about it. It's almost like being a kid. When you're out, it's like, what? It's so cringy that this thing mattered and you cared and you were so invested, but it's

so pure when you're in it. I consider UCB to have been my university. Don't you feel lucky, like when we were just talking about the golden age of celebrity? I do feel like we were in the golden age of UCB. Oh, unequivocally. When there was one UCB, even just the beginnings of Sunset, it was okay, but really, it was falling off. It was pretty quick after that.

It was pretty quick. And when your classes were all over the city, it was like, maybe you're on Lyric Hyperion. Struggling to find parking, like going to some unknown theater on Santa Monica and seeing people walk and being like, maybe they're in my class soon. Like, absolutely, the golden age. But I would argue the people in New York

probably think they were a part of the golden age. They probably feel that way, yeah. Yeah, I think they had a different golden age because they would say they were in the absolute golden age, but no. It was big enough that you felt like you were really part of something real and that could maybe lead to something, but it was also small enough.

Can I tell you a secret that isn't a secret now we're on this? I had no idea what UCB was. I didn't know who Amy Poehler was. I'd never watched SNL. I didn't know comedy. I didn't watch Seinfeld. I guess I knew comedy. I just didn't know this stuff.

That's probably liberating because I entered the groundlings going, this is how one gets on Saturday Night Live. So the pressure and the stakes were always kind of there. I needed this to all work out. I didn't have an agent. This was gonna be my singular shot at getting my foot in the door. I had a really happy ride. Like when things came of it, I was like, whoa. I'm just now seeing a parallel though, and I haven't put it together in the past, which is the other annoying thing is we would get in a fight, me and my friends, and again, the fight, a very long bar fight is three minutes,

and we would talk about that fight for the next eight hours, and Bree would walk by and go, are you guys still, but now I'm realizing both things are high adrenaline, high stakes, failures on the table, there's something about processing everything you just went through. You really had to process a show weirdly after as well. Good or bad, you have to really dig into it.

Walk through every beat. Every callback. A few times sometimes. Oh my God, when you brought back. Oh God. But it's fun. I loved it. I was on the Harold team and the Moore team. I loved them.

It's the thing I'm most nostalgic for. Yeah, that and my flat in Glendale. That was a moment in time for me. What happened at the flat in Glendale? It was just the first time I'd ever lived fully alone. It was a studio. I think that I want space, but actually I could live in here very happily. I like a little cozy space, and it was cozy, but the wardrobe was massive.

That was really cool. Obviously, bed and living room were the same area, but the wardrobe That's the closet in the closet. Yeah, it was like inordinately. Yeah, the guy I think upstairs basically made it another bedroom You know the Murphy bed Murphy bed. Yeah But that was all around the same time. I guess it was to me that my college years Were you hooking up with the other comedians? What about the boyfriend? So the boyfriend then became husband, which then became ex. Oh my god, I didn't...

Kirby, we are... You're divorced. I am! I know! We're learning... We have traveled together. I know! Did I tell you I killed a man? You know I murdered a man and did a little bit of time?

No, no, no. No, because that could be true. Exactly. Because there are celebrities who have killed people. It's not something I lead with. It's not a thing that I'm like embarrassed by. It's not a brag. Which is also funny, because at first I was like,

I won't, so I'm a divorcee. It makes me seem old. But now it's kind of fun. It's like, ooh. It is fun. Yeah, I got married really young and divorced quite young. Wrote a show about it, sold a show about it. Didn't make it onto TV.

Great show, though. But you know. How long did the marriage last? Total relationship was almost seven years. So marriage was four. Oh, that's reasonable. Three or four. I mean, it's reasonable by Hollywood standards.

But I mean, the seven year relationship that ended in marriage is not crazy. It's not crazy, but I will say for being young, it is crazy. If my kid came to me at 24 or five and said, I'm getting married, I'd say, please don't. Even if you want to be with this person, just be with them. Don't get married. Right.

I can't be judgmental because certainly Bree and I, that was a marriage. We just didn't get married. But living together for nine years, you know, we did that. Nine years is huge. Yeah, especially all through your 20s. That's what it is. For me, maybe it's not the marriage. It's the all through your 20s.

It's the time of your life where things are most in flux. Besides, obviously, the stages of being a kid, things change rapidly. Like, every month you're different. But you're a child. We don't trust under-16 year olds to make massive choices. 18, 21, we give you the power to make choices, but I just don't think your brain is aware of what a lifetime looks like, or even what a marriage looks like. A marriage is torture. No, it's not torture.

No, but I mean, like, even the nature of relationships, I think you go in so Pollyanna-ish. A real badge of honor for me was me and my ex would be like, we never argue. But actually, I realize it's because we didn't fully communicate. Like, you have to argue. There's no way two people can live together, make decisions together, pay bills together, do all that and not argue.

Someone's building a resentment. A hundred percent. Just the fact that I have grown up one way, you've grown up another way, I see the world one way, you see it one way, there's no friction in that, there's no moment where... Well, just two human beings sharing a space is rough. Two human beings sharing a space. We just always get on, and I think you don't, you just harbor things and you build it up.

The other thing I think used to come to some illusion that, you have just figured yourself out in some way, you've really just defined who you are as an adult, and you really can't imagine that that's super flexible, and that you're going to change in a lot of ways. I think that's the inconceivable part. We tried couple therapy. I remember separating, and I remember thinking, maybe even saying to the therapist,

I feel like betrayed by my own mind. I feel like what I thought... is another spit take. Oh, my God. I didn't think you would ever betray yourself. You're telling me the towers are gone? If I go there right now, they're not there. I felt like what I thought I knew was completely impenetrable.

If I choose this person, then I choose him forever. It's deeper for you and would be for me too, because I think one of the things you have constructed your identity on is You're an individual who has convictions. So like it's almost a defining characteristic You've been priding yourself on and then you go hold on a second. Maybe my conviction is also I'm having a moment of that particularly this week. I don't know what it is I'm recognizing that I want to grow up and not just get older I'm quite a headstrong person and convictions are a thing that you have to have them, particularly in this town, you have to have them.

But some of the things that serve, you can betray you as well. And I think sometimes my being so like, I know what this is, I want to make that decision. There are times where I look back now and I'm like, maybe a little more flexibility or a little less hubris. I don't know if it's self-assuredness could serve to produce different results.

Hello, hey. Oh, he's going crazy. Okay, time for a little feeding? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, is that okay? Yeah, of course. Yeah, let's do a feeding.

Oh my God. Hello. Hello. You're hungry. You're just so hungry. Oh. I'm sorry to have done that to you. We're just so long. Oh. Hi. Hi. I'm sorry to have come that too near. Hi.

We're all in the air. Mommy's in the air. So don't be sad. You want some food? Hey, let me see you. I happen to have some in my pocket. It's OK. Come on, relax now.

It's OK. I tried. Oh, you did great, KB. Thank you so much. There's a lot of rooting, and I was like, I want to see what you want. Do you think about feeding him like a piece of cheese or anything? Maybe it's time for an avocado? I thought about feeding him.

Like that? Can I say, it's okay. My favorite thing about breastfeeding is, it's just like an animal, he's just like, yeah! Oh, you're too sad. It's okay, honey. I think he's class defeating because this man wants to eat every two hours. All the men left.

Yeah, I had to get out of here. They were like, I have to go. They were like, there's a time and a place for boobs. Yes! This is my house. I prefer to see them. We're not married to this woman, so we have to go. Yeah, I don't regularly see these boobs.

I like the pleasure side of boobs, not the business side of boobs. I like the pleasure side of boobs, not the business side of boobs. You miss it? So much. I love breastfeeding. I love it. I love it. Yeah, you OK, though?

You got it. Back to my chill state. That's right. Thanks, babes. Thanks, bros. I love chicks. They take great care of me. Everyone ran up in a panic. The man is uncomfortable.

No, no. Everyone act. Everyone drop what you're doing. Isn't that crazy that they're like Men, why do they do this? And you're like, well, because we've been doing this to them since. Exactly. When my nan was in the hospital, dying in the hospital, Larry was there and he was kind of cold to you, like,

couldn't speak at this point, completely normal, took off the scarf and was like... No! No! So he wouldn't be cold. Aww. Crazy. And now he's just like jello. Yeah.

Bye! Bye! Bye, sexy! Oh my god, thank you! Bye, sexy! Oh my god, thank you! Bye, little buddy! D-Money, let us land this plane so that we can join you guys. D-Money! I don't want to leave her lap. I don't want you to leave my lap either.

It's my favorite thing. That was a sweet sidebar. That was lovely! Yeah, little people in here just like giving love and receiving love. Now DelT doesn't want to leave. Soulmates are squeezing and hugging. Love you. Love you, baby.

Well, that was great. Those girls are so great. That was a first. A guest stopping to breastfeed. Oh, really? Yeah. I feel honored that that happened, even though that has nothing to do with us. I just loved it.

You could never do that anywhere else. Can you imagine on Larry King? You know, he's so passionate. Can you imagine on Larry King? He was so passionate. Do you want to do what? Even Stern, even we love Stern, but that would probably feel a little harder to do there. Yeah, well also, I think some people feel defiant about breastfeeding, like it's a statement.

And I don't really feel one way, I just care more about me and my kid and not about anyone else. But in that moment, I could still just care about me and my kid, whereas in other situations, even if you had to do it, you'd have to care about a larger group and then it would kind of be an act of defiance

or you have to ask permission or whatever. I have a little scarf, I call my shame scarf, which is... And I just shove it over you. And sometimes I can be bothered, but if I'm wearing a big enough top or whatever I don't, there's a couple of things. I think you should do it wherever you want, do whatever. I do think, even me, we're humans, right?

We see people's bodies and sometimes we look at them. And so you have your whole top up and your boob is ginormous and your baby is sucking on it. You're probably going to look. Even the other day when we were here, heaven forbid she thinks I'm a weirdo. I was looking at Molly like, God damn it, that woman's had two babies, and I was a full perv. Literally she was in a bikini,

and I was like, just turn around so I can just see the front. I just wanna see your stomach. Like, we're humans, we look at people's bodies. It's so weird that we deny it. So, yeah, I don't think anyone should be scorned for it. You shouldn't stare, but if you walk past... Take a glance. Take a little hint.

You deserve it. You heard it. You might look at someone's tit if it's out. They're not always out either. They're not normally out. It's different. Yes, it's novel. There's a breast on the scene.

You know Kristin very well. You guys have done four things together. And to know Kristin for four years was to just see her tits everywhere. Like any dude that came by, I'm like, just come on in. There's no shame scarf. Both are out whether one's being used or not. It's just like, let's take this shirt off. She was very comfortable.

She was very comfortable even not pregnant or nursing. She's very comfortable with her nude body. I'm comfortable with it on my own, with my family very much, not just with everyone. I guess if I have to do a fitting or something, I don't mind being topless. I'm not like a nudist beach person, or even if people were around. If I was at the house and the painters were over, I don't mind being topless. I'm not like a nudist beach person, or even if people were around,

if I was at the house and the painters were over, I don't think I'd have both my boobs out. Sure, sure, that's a good, just for your own longevity, we shouldn't probably, the painters are over. The painters are over, get your tits out. Okay, but we were talking about guys, and this brings me to another observation of mine about you,

which is you don't seem to have much approval junkie in you. You're not flirty Well, I'd maybe you're just your natural essence is attractive. So I'm insanely attractive There's no vibe of like I need to know that you think I'm attractive. Well, you know what I think is helpful I didn't think I was attractive or no. I was attractive until I was probably 23 or 24. I mean, I thought I was ugly until I was about 18 or 19, and then I thought I was kind of cute-ish. I look at pictures. I mean, I remember saying to someone,

Rachel Bloom, actually, I was at a picnic, and I was like, oh my God, I was this completely atrocious-looking kid. And I showed her a picture, and she was like, well, I can't see it. Like, if that's how you felt, I don't want to invalidate that. But I really never felt a couple of things. My mom never grew up being like, you're beautiful.

I never got any affirmations on my physical appearance. Right. And then I was kind of like a bit of an odd kid. Like, I remember when I was 13, I dyed the tips of my hair red. I watched Kalisa's music video, I Hate You So Much. And she had this half long hair, half shaved hair. And I went into the mirror and cut my own hair. Like just literally.

And this is also again before Instagram. So I didn't have the picture in front of me. It was a music video that I'd seen. And then from memory, I had to lock in from memory. I cut my own hair. Is that the left side of her hair? Fuck, it's flipped. So I never made choices based on what made me look prettier.

My currency has never been looks. So it was actually quite weird for me. Even when men started looking at me, I used to be like, what are they looking at? It felt very like, fuck, what is he looking at? Yeah, what's wrong with this dude? What's wrong with this guy? This guy's weird.

Yeah. He's looking at me. He seems interested. What the fuck's wrong with this guy? What does he think, I have money? Yeah, this guy's after my money. I have 5,000 pounds. It's gonna last me an eternity.

What an interesting voyage because you are objectively outrageously beautiful. Oh, thanks. It's kind of a shocking level of beauty. Well, Krista and I say it to you all the time. We always say you have the most pleasing face. There's like something almost anesthetizing about looking at your face.

But we've also told you directly, there's something so pleasing. I get more caught in your flurry of Larry. So I'm not. Well Larry, I'm sorry. Larry actually pisses me off. In fact, I'm still outraged. The other day you told me like, oh yeah, Larry's recovering from a hernia operation.

No, heart surgery. Heart surgery, which is way worse. Maybe I made it hernia so I felt justified to be mad at him still. A heart surgery. While you were like giving birth This is insane. Yes, and then I said, oh my lord. I didn't even know he had a thing and then you said yeah I mean he hasn't been able to work out in two years and I literally went fuck that guy

You can suck a dick. I hope he has a hundred more heart surgery Not onward right now. How dare he? Absolutely not. How fucking dare he have not worked out in two years and look like that? Yeah, he is beautiful. But just yesterday I was with Erica Curtis, who you've met. She loves sugar.

Oh. And she was like, Kirby's face is so incredible, I can't stop looking at it. Oh, that's so nice. Because I do feel like, I would like to feel, you can't put too much stock in it because your face is going so nice. Because I do feel like I would like to feel you can't put too much stock in it because your face is going to change. But just to be like, oh, OK, I recognize that.

Because my mom is stunning. She's so beautiful. But I think she has put so little stock in it. She missed it. My mom uses just like baby lotion on her face. I'm like, let's get good products. Because it's nice to feel pretty. It is nice to feel attractive.

And people go like, it's just for you. It's kind of both, right? It's like circular. It's simple, because it's nice to feel pretty. It is nice to feel attractive. And people go like, it's just for you. It's kind of both, right? It's like circular, it's typical, whatever it is. It's like, yeah, it's for me, but also it's nice if someone says, oh, you look nice, you feel good, you feel confident. You can see when women, particularly, walk down the street feeling good.

If someone says they don't like feeling hot, they are either lying or they've been so hot since they were so young that literally it's a given and they don't think about I have met a couple dudes that are so fucking hot that they're almost not even interested in women. This is a foregone conclusion. There's no reward there. There's no chase. Of course this person will like me. That's kind of boring. Or their hotness has led to some sort of trauma. Yeah, exactly. We gotta include that.

And I think that's a fair amount of people. Yeah, but I have a big difficulty with the like, they're for me, my tattoos, they're just for me. We're social animals, we live in a world where we take in other people around us. Yes, and also we're constantly evaluating our surroundings and the people around us and making judgments is part of who we are and what we are

and assessing each other and sizing each other up and prowling. We're thin slicing and we're trying to figure out, are they safe, are they a threat, are they a mate? And all the outside stuff is also what is signaling the inside stuff, kind of. This is who I'm showing you that I am. I have this piercing, or I have this whatever it is.

I don't know, this whole, like, I dress just for myself. I guess it stems from yourself, but it is also telegraphing to the world who you want the world to know you as. Of course. Stay tuned for more Farm Chair Expert, if you dare. Okay, third observation. So one is that like you don't seem to have a lot of approval seeking, which is fascinating. And then you're already doing it, which is you're, I would say, uniquely pragmatic for

an actor in Hollywood. You're very practical about what the world really is. You and I are generally bonding over like, yeah, but that's all bullshit. We all know what's really going on. And I've been curious, is that, do you think, your English perspective or just your own personal perspective? I think a lot of it is English, because I sometimes find that I'm received here too harshly, or maybe say it as it is too much.

A little bit like, we don't say that. The other day, I was at a Soho house with someone who had a membership, and there was a dog in there, and this dog came up and had a service vest on, and was like sniffing around, and I went, that's not a service dog. Right. Hahaha. It really was a service dog. and I went, that's not a service dog. Right.

It really was a service dog. Yeah, yeah, it's a party animal. It's at a bar. And the girl was kind of like, huh. You say what you're thinking. Of course, I don't have complete word for it. I can understand the situation. That was sort of like, it also felt kind of funny.

Hey girl, we both know that's not a service dog, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But was she trying to act like she didn't know it was a service dog or that I should be fooled into thinking that it was a service animal? You don't want to participate in some silly fantasy. You're kind of unwilling to play the role of, yes, now I should be offended or now I should feel touched by this. I have a very live and let live attitude for most things.

The only tribe I really want to be part of is my friends and my family, like a very, very small community of people. That's a group that I live and die by. I don't like the tribalism in general. Like, I don't like, if you're part of this group, you have to leave all of this. I don't want you to say I'm a this or I'm a that. I don't think there was ever a time where people weren't polarized, but I do think there was a time where people could have more nuance in their thinking and much more tolerance. The reason why we can't have it is because we keep mistaking public platforms as intimate spaces where we can have conversations.

You know like rules get made because someone did something. Now it's like don't dive into the pool because someone dove into the pool. So now we need a rule. And it's almost like we want to have conversations and we want to be open. But now these freaking clowns, it's like, all right, now nothing can be serious or real. It used to be that we acknowledge we share a space. So it's like you're in a town, people think differently, but we're here, but there's no other place.

Now there is a place. You can live most of your life on a platform or on a computer, and then even those platforms and computers will actually drive you to locations in the real life, the 3D life, that also there'll be no compromise required. That's, to me, what's changed. There's no acknowledgement of like, hey, guys, we're all here. What's so crazy is, I look at my nan,

she came from the Caribbean, lived in a shack in the Caribbean, came to London, moved into an area where there were a lot of other Caribbean people, but a lot of English people, loads of different people, and the love her neighbors have for her. Not to say that she lived in a utopia where color didn't matter, but community mattered more, right? The people in your community, and that came down to people, the personality, not your

political beliefs, not what you've assigned yourself to be or not the label you've given yourself. None of that sort of stuff or the group you have to be part of. It was just, are you a good person? You know, I go over and I check on Peggy and I make sure she's okay. And that was their group. And it was small and you could care about that group of people. And then we have the internet, which felt like our world expanded, but then it shrunk everything too. Cause now you don't even know your neighbors. You don't care about them. I live in a neighborhood that's very, very eclectic. It's a small neighborhood

and there's a Facebook page. I don't know when it happened because I moved to this neighborhood in 2020. So I don't know if that changed things, but like everyone is's a Facebook page. I don't know when it happened because I moved to this neighborhood in 2020, so I don't know if that changed things. But like, everyone is so angry. Truly, I think you can believe whatever you want. I don't understand this world where everyone has to believe the same things. But also, in believing different things, we can find more commonality if we're not so locked in and subscribed. Well, if you're not leading with this difference.

Yeah, and vote however you want. Because at the end of the day, we're all humans. We all want the same things, right? We want comfort and we want to be safe. I think most people want the best. And I'm trying to hold on to the fact that I have always thought that most people are good and most people want for the best things.

I do think that, I just think it becomes difficult to sort of keep that as a perpetual thought when you look online and you see and hear a lot of loud people. But I do still cling to that because I've met people that validate that. Everyone feels attacked, so everyone's acting out of defense all the time.

So that just leads to this anger. So when Michael Brown happened, that was seemingly like a very long time ago, but not that long ago. I was like very active in early Black Lives Matter. I would go down to the police precinct in LA and there would be moments where you could talk openly and speak about things.

Like a town hall movie type thing. Town hall, exactly, yeah. I would go to like a lot of that. But there was a quote I remember seeing flying around that was like, if you're not outraged, you're not paying attention. Then 2020 happened and everyone had time to sit in their house and everyone just sat

and got outraged and got outraged as the form of paying attention. And so now if something happens, you've got to talk about it. You've got to say something. You've got to show that you're outraged because then everyone knows that you're paying attention. We know what side you subscribe to, and if you don't say something, then what? What is it saying that you're not saying something?

This non-falsifiable claim that by not commenting on something, you're somehow complacent in one side or the other. It's like they've created this weird construct. Completely. Where you cannot win. They're basically holding a gun to your head and saying, you are going to alienate half this country, which side do you want to alienate? And if you don't alienate one of them, then you've alienated both of them.

As if this isn't some tiny part of your life. Even if you're someone who's active on social media every day, it's still a small part of your life. I'm at the point where I don't even go on that thing every day and I just figured out scheduled posts. God bless. So I can be on it even less. The tag in my little bio is, this is my LinkedIn.

Because it kind of is. It's not a place where you're gonna learn about me. You're there for hair braiders and fashion lines. I'm there for hair braiders. I have to show you my work, because they've sent me the assets this week, and I have to post them. In Willow.

Yeah. Yeah, and like a couple fashion blogs. If she leaves, you might be gone. Yeah, 100%. I found the braider. What more do I need from her? Yeah. This is a question I do think I asked you

when we were together in Tennessee, and you wrote, luckily, so I don't feel completely out of line asking you, you wrote two books, Little Black Girl, The Things You Can Do, which you wrote by yourself, and then Little Black Boy, Things You Will Do, you wrote with Larry. Yeah. Can do as boy, will do as girl. Did I do that backwards? Yeah, but that doesn't matter, because I just told you.

Yeah, yeah, okay, great. Because this is the other thing, people don't correct people in the moment, they're like, he got it wrong later. It's like, I could just... He failed the test. I could just tell you right now, I'm right here. We're both here. I'm deeply curious about this. How do you think, and are you even able to evaluate,

I'd imagine so, your partner's black and grew up in America. How do you think the black experience differs in England from America? Also, I know that's too broad of a question because even within America, you can have a bazillion different blacks. But is there something to be said in general about the two? Yeah, for sure.

Because the way we came to these places are very different to start with. Everyone in the UK, whether you're Caribbean or not, my family are Caribbean, so you're either Windrush generation, your grandparents came, maybe your parents came if they're a little older, but most people my age are second generation British, their parents are probably born there. Maybe their parents are born in the western east. And the people chose to go there? They chose to go there. In fact, they were invited.

The Windrush generation, they needed more working class jobs to be filled nursing, factory workers, when everything was made in Britain still. So they were invited, they needed that workforce. So there's that. And then a little later you had a large African migration. So there's a massive difference in the way we came to be in these countries.

And then also what we got to hold on to. So my family are Caribbean, so I have that language, I have the food, I have the culture. We go back, I know the exact island we're from, though, obviously, even by way of how we got to the Caribbean is a different thing. But I know that's my culture, that's my heritage. And then obviously, if you're an African person, even more so direct, because we've come to London from the Caribbean, obviously, by way of Africa at some point. But you know, for them, even more so direct, because we've come to London from the Caribbean, obviously by way of Africa at some point.

But for them, it's much more direct. So I think in the most general terms, the way we've come to these countries are completely different. So the experience is going to be different. The way we've been received is going to be different. I mean, my mom grew up in the 70s, and there were still signs that said no dogs, no blacks,

no Irish. People who are different aren't often just received with open arms. Right, yeah. And in the UK there was actually a lot of camaraderie between like Caribbean and Irish people because of that, because they were received in similar ways. But I also think that we don't have that original sin that America can't get rid of and also because of that becomes a real defining trait. A lot of people would let America tell it,

blackness started from slavery. Sometimes I find here, the defining trait is this struggle. Whereas for me, it's like, we've come from the Caribbean. The inciting incident is completely different story. Yeah, but I think it's a very negative place. Obviously it's a negative place. That's the understatement. But I think actually it continues to further reduce the people to go like, this is where your history began.

That's not where black history began at all. Black history did not begin at slavery. Actually, if you look in the whole history of black people, slavery is like a very recent thing. Well, the very first people are black people. Yeah, and then also you've got to look at where we've come from in terms of teaching language and discovering things and resources and Mansa Musa.

It's almost like your tour, it starts from here because that in itself creates like a limiting perspective. Also, this is kind of a side note, but it's on that, but you know, I watched Kat Wimms' most recent stand-up. Oh, I'm dying to see that. It was good, and I enjoyed some bits more than others. It took a second and then it really got started. But there's one moment where he talks about reparations. I believe very much in reparations, and I know some people feel split about reparations.

I don't think it's a handout. I think it's crazy. I feel very strongly about reparations, not just because I think it's owed, but I also think, it's almost like in this industry, right? People will go, oh, they loved you, they loved you, they loved you, and then they'll nickel and dime you on your quota, and I'm like, it doesn't matter to me that they say they love me. Show me.

What are the actions? Yeah, the only ways you can really show, unless you're in like an intimate relationship, the only way you really show in a business setting or in that sort of setting, you show appreciation is financially, right? And respect. And respect, that's the world we live in.

What reparations would do, not to mention the fact that there are roughly 42 million African Americans, really small number, even if you take a billion dollars and then just split that up. Like it's actually not that big a number to give reparations to this group of people. I say this group because I exclude myself because I'm not an African American. I wouldn't be deserving of that. But you can almost like start the clock again and go like, okay, not that everything changes,

there's issues with mental health and drug addiction. It's a symbolic admission. It's a symbolic admission. And it's also like you were saying about making amends when you go into like a program. It's just that. I can tell you what the trickiness is from my perspective. Tell me, tell me. black folks definitely deserve reparations

It's generational it was systemic and Today people are born still dealing with that deficit the people that are currently here don't feel any ownership of that Crime so it's the white people. Yeah So it's interesting that what they are being asked to do is pay for the sins of their ancestors, which is a tough sell, because you're going like, yes, they deserve that, but do I deserve to be the one who pays for that when I didn't perpetuate that?

Then a more macro view or argument against that would just be, but you're suffering even though. That's what I'm saying. Well, that's one of the things that Cat Williams says. I hear exactly the argument, but my answer to that is just yes, because you're suffering that thing. And then I also think that the burden

that it has on everyone, right? Like the suffering and then the white guilt and then the, I shouldn't feel like that because it wasn't me, the anger, the everything that we all- The defensiveness. The defensiveness or whatever side of it, the stupid fucking black squares that everyone posted

during the pandemic. Exactly. All of that is the guilt and the guilt weighs on different people differently. And yes, you're paying for the sins of your ancestors, but then it's almost like, isn't everyone? Watching how the Germans commit a big chunk of time to deal with the history of the Holocaust and how in schools, the kids are told to go home

and pack a box in everything you wanna keep in your life, you gotta bring to school in this box. None of those people were Nazis, and that's not killing them to do that and it is making them better. So having observed that in a documentary like, oh what's his name, Michael Moore, there's like a 30 minute thing about that and I was like, yeah that's totally doable. Like it's just actually kind of beautiful. And our money's going somewhere. Well that's what I think financially we're kind of proving every single

day it's so doable. COVID, prove that. We can give people money. We can give people money, yeah. And how much we give to war as well, of course. Did you, when you came here, did you feel any kind of observable like, oh, it's a different vibe here? Oh yeah. I remember being in like a charity shop with my friend.

You know, I love thrifting. I love someone else's stuff. Love it. You're nosy is what it is. I'm nosy, yeah. These underwear have been worn. Stinky clothes, yeah. I don't want to stuff. Love it. Your nosy is what it is. I'm nosy, yeah. Have these underwear been worn? Yeah. I want to look at them now.

I remember this woman, I kind of walked past the aisle, she kind of held her bag a little tight, and I could see it. Because that's the other thing, is like, you can see it. When people do this, they think they're being discreet, but you can see it. She heard me speak with my friend, and then she was like, oh, wow, where are you from? And also, if you've ever been to London,

everyone sounds like me in London. America's funny because it's so big and such a major exporter of culture, but yet it kind of absorbs mostly its own culture. So I still, to a lot of people, seem very exotic. We also have this huge stereotype about your accent, which is you're smart. Yeah, of course. There's a disconnect between my skin color

and my accent for most people. Oh, I got you. But that's also another thing that doesn't always, because sometimes I say words wrong and no one corrects me. You're getting away with murder. Oh, murder. That's how they say it. Sometimes I'll give directions

and then people will just follow them. You're getting a lot of benefit of the doubt. Always, always. Yeah. But counterbalanced with your blackness. You might actually be having the same experience I'm having now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

They're confused. You had an English accent and you I'm having. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, they're confused. You added an English accent, I mean, deduct for this. Oh man. Okay, let's talk about Sugar. By all accounts, I think it must be huge because you were here this weekend and my father-in-law was here and he does not watch any television.

He was rabid to talk to you about it. Yeah, that was really nice. And I was like, that's a huge sign to me because it's appealing to me. I've been watching it and I love it. It's really, really good. Are you watching it and I love it. It's really really good Are you watching it? I'm on it. I watched it. Yeah, you're gonna get major Veronica Mars flashbacks Cuz it's noir and there's these very familiar archetypes that Veronica Mars had which is those like they're just nasty ass people

David what's his name? Yes Shit that's a very Veronica Mars Is that's so funny cuz I was like, oh, is the first in all, but actually no, Veronica Mars is. Yeah, and it's just like, yeah, we got a bad person on the loose. Yes! I want you to gossip for a second because I have a great fascination about him, but I've never met him. But Colin Farrell I feel like is one of my people. He's fantastic.

He's a charming motherfucker, right? Yeah, I wish I could spend more time just talking with him, but he's such a celebrity as well. He's got so many people around him, he's at that stage, but actually he's such a great, normal... He's Irish, I mean, that helps, right? He's Irish, I think that helps. I think that helps being not from here and having that perspective.

And that's just a big blue collar chip on the shoulder. Yeah, exactly. I always feel like, not generally want to stereotype, but when I was in hospital, the moment I had an Irish nurse, I was like, oh, I feel okay. I feel better. Like, there's just something about Irish people. Good people.

I think your stereotyping is like, you feel very comfortable around them. I can live with that one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, but acting with them's lovely? Well, he's a beast of an actor. And you know what he is still? I think I've been quite fortunate to still work with this,

but I know people who've worked with A-listers who aren't like this. He does not phone it in. He wants to rehearse with you. He knows his lines. He comes to set prepared. When it's time to work, it's time to work. And you feel like you're working with an equal, even though you're like, oh my God,

this is the guy from Phone Booth, which might not be the film you most have seen. That was my original intro to him, too. That's my go-to. You need to see Tigerland. Have you ever seen Tigerland? No, I haven't. That's his breakout.

You know all these foreigners, they have a movie. Ewan McGregor's is Trainspotting. His see Tigerland. Have you ever seen Tigerland? No, I haven't. That's his breakout. You know all these foreigners, they have a movie. Ewan McGregor's is Trainspotting. Yeah. His is Tigerland. That's where now Joel Silver's like he needs to be a movie star. Yeah, okay, yeah. He's phenomenal in that. Okay, but to just go back to what you were saying earlier, does that happen anymore? That's when I say the Golden Age.

Well, I think we have a couple of them on our hands right now. Zendaya. Yeah, Zendaya. Okay. And also Jenna Ortega. From TV, I guess. And then, I can. Zendaya? Yeah, Zendaya. OK. And also Jenna Ortega. From TV, I guess. And then, I can't say his name correctly, but Zendaya's Bo. Timothee Chalamet?

Timothee Chalamet. I think we're like, OK, yeah. This is our new movie star. Maybe I don't watch enough stuff. In the past, it felt like that happened because it was undeniable. And now it sometimes feels arbitrary. Like we're picking.

Like we're just picking. In the past, it felt like this is undeniable. This. Yeah like a Tom Cruise, a Brad Pitt, Julia Roberts. Natalie Portman. Natalie Portman. Like you and McGregor you're like whoa and also the project right you're like whoa maybe some of this is also what's happened in the last few years where the pandemic we were forced to watch TV so we were just like any one of these people because we had to watch them. I feel that way about Jenna Ortega. Okay I haven't seen that show, so I feel maybe I have to watch that. I have the same feeling watching her that I had when I watched Natalie Portman. Or I was like, get out of here.

At what age, doing all that, and then I watch her in this, and it's an opposite. Like, whoa, I'm getting it still. Okay, okay. Now, will they do three movies a year in that whole system? I don't know that that exists. They're going to have to do one of these huge temple movies that takes eight months and all that. I mean, Emma Stone. Did you get on with her?

Who you worked with. Yeah, she's lovely as well. She can get butts in seats. I mean, I think that's what it sort of is. It is, yeah. There's something with those actors that still feel like they love acting. They really love acting.

And maybe that's part of not getting sort of burnt out, doing too much. And they work with incredible directors. So you're allowed to do what you think that you can do and what you want to do. I think I've only really had that experience once on this indie that I did with Anu... You know Anu?

Is this Wee Strangers? Yeah. She was kind of a comedy girl too. It's funny because her stuff now is so much more serious, but she wrote for College Humor, but her stuff now is a little more like surreal with comedy elements. But that project has been the only project where I felt like...

I love a lot of the other projects. I love Suga. I actually felt like it was fantastic. But it's obviously not my vehicle. We Strangers is my vehicle. And what it felt like was, oh, man, if I'm allowed to do what I think I can do, this is what I can do. And they're doing all the stuff around you

that needs to be done to match that. Everyone is that invested. And I think that's the nature of like an indie. Because there's like no money in it. You own it because you love it. Pure art, you love it. And everyone loved it, and we had time, and I think it's the best piece of work I've ever done. When does that come out?

We went to South by Southwest, so I think the hope is that it gets sold and... Distributed somehow. I was hoping they would have sent a link for Wee Strangers, but we didn't get one. I would love to see it. Who are you playing in that? So I play this character called Ray, and she's a cleaner. Meaning cleaning up bodies and stuff.

No, like a commercial cleaner. You go into offices and retail spaces and you clean, and then she gets hired by this family, and it becomes this whole study of assimilation and code switching. And she starts cleaning for these two white families, but one is a family that's actually interracial. It's like an Indian family.

It's all set in Gary, Indiana, so it's got that sort of backdrop. It's really home of Michael Jackson. I've been to his house, well, not inside. Did you shoot in Gary? Yeah, we shot in Gary. And then in other places in Indiana and then right on the border of Chicago as well.

And actually, when you said dead bodies, so I worked with a commercial cleaner out there. This lady called My Brain is like... Well, you just had a child. Well, I just breastfed. It's like all my brains went out. I worked with this commercial cleaner and I cleaned with her. Like, I cleaned tax office, I cleaned a funeral park.

Like, I went to the Lego store. I worked, and I think that's the other nature of my idea of being an actor was like that stuff. Thinking of Daniel Day-Lewis getting so steeped in a role, which can feel a bit, like, wanky sometimes. I mean, it feels very self-indulgent, but actually, maybe the proof is in the pudding. Like when you give people time to do that,

like I think my performance was so much better because I actually did it. Like I knew what I was doing. I didn't just show up to set and be like, okay, I pretend to be a cleaner now. You pick up these dumb things that you just want to think of naturally because you've done the habitual activity.

One of my favorite acting moments in history is Jeff Bridges in that movie where he's a singer. And he gets out of this old Suburban and he goes in the back. A, he's carrying a piss jug in the car, which was his choice too. And then he gets out and the way he puts the window down on the Suburban, he helps the window up

because it's an old truck. And I was like, this man has clearly lived with this vehicle for 30 years. It's the dumbest, simplest thing. But you're like, that's a man in his vehicle. But you gotta fuck with that car for a week or something. If someone watches We Strangers and has what you just had, which is like, oh, that's exactly how you clean that thing.

That's exactly what I would do. That's winning. Oh my God, that's such a win. That's what I came into this industry. That's what I think I'm in this world to do. Right. Really. Even if it's just one person, it's like the lines of what's real,

and even though I know this is a film, I feel like I'm watching someone's life. That to me is the greatest gift. The best case is you go, oh, this actor was previously this. Yes. You're never going to buy into the whole thing, but you might go like, oh, yeah, they must have definitely rode horses growing up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 100%. Exactly. Exactly that. That's what it's best we can hope for.

Yes, that's the best you can hope for. Okay, well, we'll stay posted on when Wee Strangers comes out. And Sugar's phenomenal, and I hope people take that ride. I'm like two-thirds of the way through it, and I love it. Again, if you like Ron Mars, man. There's a few Ron Marses out there, by the way. Oh, there's tons. You know where there's a lot? It's in Europe.

Oh, really? Oh, my God. So I didn't know, because I didn't grow up with cables, so we didn't have Veronica Mars, but they used to show, I think, on TV in Italy. And a friend of mine's now ex-boyfriend is Italian. And when I got on Veronica Mars, was completely like, got Hulu, even though Hulu doesn't exist in the UK, got like a VPN. Pirate it. Snap the gold tooth in. Exactly.

Absolutely obsessed with it. Huge European market. You're right. I'm now remembering us going through the security line in Italy and all these people in Italian freaking out. And then you're like, oh, they're on the Mars. Yes. Yeah, and we're like, oh wow,

it's fucking like Baywatch down here. Yeah, yeah, they love it. So everybody watch Sugar. Everybody find We Strangers when it comes out, I can't wait to see it myself. And then my last question, did you ever think you would go to the mountains of Tennessee and watch a NASCAR race?

What a fun time we had. What a fun time, and I feel remiss for not posting. I think maybe I'll post it after this, because I was like not in my social media, but I also was like, this was such a cool thing. We posted the shit out of it. I know, and I like, I- Everyone looks so good in the photos. You know what, I looked great. You don't, but I felt remiss as in I social media, but I was always like, this was such a cool thing. We posted the shit out of it. I know, and I like, I- Everyone looks so good in the photos.

You know what, I looked great. You don't, but I felt remiss as in I'm like, actually, this was a great cool thing. You guys should see that I did it. Yeah. There's not many black girls from London at Nazca at all, right? You guys were sitting on the pit wall, and other than Bubba Wallace, who was driving one of the cars-

100%, there was no one. No. There's nowhere that I don't feel like I belong and that I can't go. There's a weird thing where people are like, I can't go into these spaces. I think fuck that, I'll go anywhere. I want to experience everything there is to do

in the very short amount of time. I am now realizing, I think having a child makes you realize I'm like, fuck, I don't have a lot of time here. Like I got to set some things up. We got to go to a night race. Yes. Before we die.

And I got to do things, yeah, before I die. I wanna go everywhere and do everything. That was an outstanding trip. That was really fun. Yeah, that was great. Thank you guys. All right, Kirby, I love you. I love you, Dex.

Everyone check out Sugar. Everyone check out Whiskey. Monica, I love you. This was genuinely so nice. I think this is the longest we've got to spend together and this is like so nice. Well, one time we ran into each other at Covel. That was the best.

That was so fun. I was with Ana and Kirby was there with friends and then she came and sat with us and then she left and Anna and I were both like, God, Kirby's the best. Oh, that was so nice. I would like to do that. We'll do that. She's a cool guy.

Very much. Number one cool guy. We have three different categories. Yes, best boy, cool guy, sexy man. Oh, cool guy. You're also a sexy man. Yeah, sure. I'll say cool guy, you know,

I told you about my currency. Yeah. Oh, Cool Guy. You're also a sexy man. Yeah, sure. I'll say Cool Guy, you know, I told you about my currency. Yeah, exactly. Cool Guy. Cause Cool Guy bleeds into Sexy Man. Yeah, it all bleeds. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, love you, be well.

Stick around for the fact check. Because they're human, they make lots of mistakes. A little update from the comments. One, which is fun, people who like beats really like beats. Oh wow. Yeah, so they were hurt that we don't like beats. And so we got a lot of fun recipes in the comments that people think you and I will like beats

if we try these recipes. So. All right. Yeah, I just thought that was an interesting outpour of reaction, the beet lovers. It's okay. We don't have to like beets. Right, well what was nice about this approach,

I'd like to applaud it, is no one said like, you're crazy, you don't like beets, or you're stupid, or you have bad taste buds. They said, oh maybe you should try it thisets or you're stupid or you have bad taste buds they said oh maybe you should try it this way you know right but that's kind of like like i know that if you just give it the another try drizzle of honey people really want us to cube it a lot that was a very common recommendation is that we cube the the beets okay okay now to the second thing and this is that we cube the beats. Okay. Okay, now to the second thing. And this is common, I'm very aware of this. So I had said irregardless in an episode recently

and people lost their mind. And I already know the argument about irregardless. It is originally regardless, and irregardless is redundant and not necessary. But unfortunately, irregardless is a word in the Webster's Dictionary. You're allowed to use it. It does mean what you think irregardless means,

and it's okay, it's in the dictionary. But people were very, they were shook. Yeah. Yeah. How was your trip? It was all I could do to resist telling you how terrible it was, because there was so many times I needed probably to just vent about it.

Oh my God. But it was happened. Oh my gosh. Well, we got a backup to Father's Day when Kristen went down with COVID. Yeah. Last laugh, COVID still around. Still going strong. Yeah, so COVID, as you know, you witnessed a lot of this. She basically went to bed on a Sunday

and she just never, she woke up a few different times for a week. Yeah, she did not feel well. No, she's not looking good. We left early Friday morning because I had a reservation at a RV place that we had to get to by six and it was in Utah. So I'm like, guys, we have to get on the road

at this time to make it, in time before they shut the gates of this place. Scrambling, scrambling, scrambling. And then I look at her in the kitchen on the day of departure, and I have to say like, is this a really stupid idea? Like you look like you might need a hospital in the next 12 hours.

Should we be driving to the middle of the desert in the bus? I really was like, we might have to pull the plug on this whole thing. Yes, which would be, I look forward to this trip all year. It's my favorite trip of the year. It's so fun. And then the bus I love of course. So it was really like I wasn't even,

as we were getting in the bus I'm like, I'm probably gonna regret this for her health, right? And we're gonna get there and can't go anyways because we can't show up with Kristen in the condition she was in at a very communal gathering. But we pushed ahead and immediately what I found out was when I unplugged Big Brown from the 50 amp electric output that it's plugged into at all times,

the refrigerator shut off and a few other things shut off that the batteries are supposed to run. So the whole battery system is supposed to run the fridge and some other stuff. That's not working. And I'm like, oh fuck. And okay, so the fridge and some other stuff. That's not working. And I'm like, oh fuck. And okay, so the fridge will not have power. We just packed it full of tons of food.

Oh no. And I'm like, this is stressful, but we gotta keep going. We start going and I'm trying to think the order of events. At some point we have no power inside. I turn the generator on while we're driving thinking, well, okay, if the batteries aren't gonna power the fridge maybe the generator will power the fridge the generator going and it's powering some things but not the fridge and not some other things. I'm like what the fuck is going on? So then the next order of

events is we're in Nevada it's now a hundred outside we're crossing the desert. And you have no AC. Well, that was the next development. So I have AC coming out of the dashboard because the engine makes that. Lincoln's like, it's really hot in back. Mom's trying to sleep. And I'm like, okay, go to the panel, turn on this button. I'm trying to explain to her how to turn the AC on while I'm still driving. She comes back.

She's like, it's not working. I'm like, is the blue light on? She's like, yeah, I'm driving, mind you, the whole time. So it's like, I can't get up and do. And now the AC doesn't work, and now the bus is just getting hotter and hotter and hotter and hotter. Oh my God.

And I'm like, oh my God. So we get past Vegas, I go through all these different breakers, I then pull the generator out from in front of the bus, there's a breaker on there, I turn that on, okay, thank God that then powers at least the air conditioning. So now the air conditioning's working,

but the toilets aren't flushing. Oh no. Yep, yep. I mean, long story short, by the time we got to the RV place and I plugged it into shore power and I turned the pump on for the water so we could flush the toilets,

I was noticing water's kind of cascading out of the bottom of Big Brown. And I'm thinking, is that all condensation from the AC units on top? Maybe that's all leaking down. The electronics are getting more and more scatty wampus and poltergeist-y. Less and less things are working.

I open a compartment, tons of water's just leaking into the compartment. It's the compartment with all of the electronic modules. So everything that runs everything is just getting dumped with water. And now it occurs to me, oh, there is a pipe either broken in the wall or a fitting that has come loose. And I'm also watching the fresh water tank go from 100

when we left down to 20 and we haven't used. We haven't used any water. So I mean, to be grateful, we had AC. I guess we had AC. That's about as good as it could get, but we couldn't use the toilets. The lights no longer worked. None of the shades worked. We were in a campground luckily, so we could use that bathroom.

I'm hoping as these modules dry out, they'll start functioning. They never did. So, and while driving, people are reporting new things to me every hour and a half. Dad, this thing. And I'm like, I gotta drive the bus, I can't do. And he is done. Morning of, we're in Idaho at a campground and that was fun.

That place had like a little outdoor pool. It was very, I don't know what the word is, ragged around the edges, I guess. Oh, what Callie would say rustic. Yeah, it was rustic, but not in a silver like charming way. But when we went to the pool at night, there was a French family there, like a mom and a dad and three kids

and they were all speaking French. And I don't know why, I just love the idea that they had chosen their American vacation and they were camping and they were at this weird campground. I don't know, I liked that a lot. And then the next morning, it's time to drive to the fishing lodge and we're like, what do we do?

So then we all took COVID tests, all negative. Including her. Including her. So she didn't have COVID? Or she was just done testing positive for it? Yeah, she was past being viral or whatever. Okay. So that luckily,

cause that morning of I was like, we've gotten all the way here and we can't really go to the fishing lodge and now we're gonna have to Drive all the way back. I guess oh my with all this shit going wrong What if there's a guy with a leaf blower in your apartment? I now I used to never care about them or think about them and ever since we did that episode of flightless bird now I have a beef.

You have better minehoff. I do. Yeah, you notice it more. So that was a huge relief. That meant it wasn't all for naught. We could go, and I think also mentally, just her knowing she wasn't, she did start to turn around that day.

Oh, that's interesting, yeah. Which was huge. Okay, last wrinkle, they've never had a 50 amp plug at the fishing lodge. around that day. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Which was huge. Okay. Last wrinkle, they've never had a 50 amp plug at the fishing lodge. So I thought, okay, I'm going to have to park the bus 40 miles away at this campground that has the plug so that it's not dead when I have to drive it back. But then come to find out the guy who runs this place, he got an Airstream last year and put in a 50 amp.

So. Oh, lucky. Very lucky. So the bus has been plugged in and I leave in the morning. I'm optimistic it'll get me home, but they're flying as they should. Oh, they are. Oh, you're gonna be solo?

Yes, yes. That'll be easier for everyone if I'm not hearing about what's broken every hour. I see, yeah. I'm sorry because I feel, Go ahead. I mean, I don't think I should take this on, but I feel a little responsible.

Tell me how. Because what happened was you told me a story that we were originally flying. You guys decided to fly and you hadn't told Delta. And then when you guys told her, she was very, very sad. And then she had had a whole plan and she didn't really wanna talk about it, but it was just like the saddest story.

It was, yeah. So I said, well, why don't you and Delta just take the bus and Kristen and Lincoln can fly if they want, but why don't you guys like do a thing? And then you did. Yes, yeah. I mean, it was heading in that direction. You don't have to take any responsibility.

The only thing you really participate in is by saying it's okay if we cancel that one day of recording. Like if you had- I also gave you that. Yeah, if you had been out of shape about that, that might have been something to wrestle with, but you were very amenable to that adjustment.

Well yeah, I wanted her to get her trip. Me too. And boy, did she get one. And now she's flying home. Oh my God. Oh my God. Why do I own this thing? Yes! This is such a stupid, stupid thing to have. Listen, when you have the ledger of pros and cons,

the trip to Mount Rushmore, into North Dakota, into Montana, and Aaron and I at the Ava Brothers concert, being in the dunes, it's still all a huge win. But yeah, currently, fuck this thing. I wanna get a Honda Accord. It's the only thing I want to own. Yeah, very trusted. Just drive it into the ground and never think about it.

It's a great car. Speaking of luxury. Yeah. Since you've been gone, a lot's happened. Oh my God. Yeah. Has that been going on for four days, five days? Five days.

Yeah, a lot's, lot's happened. So you left Friday, but I saw you Thursday. Then Friday, I had dinner with Eric and Molly and Erica and Charlie. We went to Craig's. We love Craig's. Oh, that's the place with the paparazzi. Yeah. Yeah. And it was really yummy and it was very, very fun.

It's kinda like my life is now pre that dinner and post that dinner. No kidding. What happened? Okay, so I had my card holder out. I have a Goyard card holder. Credit card holder. Credit card holder, yeah. Because, okay, so I had my card holder out. I have a Goyard card holder. Credit card holder. Credit card holder, yeah.

Yeah, okay. And Erica said, oh my gosh, Charlie, you match Monica. And he took out his, and he had one too, but his is a dupe. Does that mean fake? Yeah. Okay. Fake is canceled, I guess.

Now we say dupe. Come on, are we not saying this? I'm kidding, I'm kidding. Dufu-, I guess. Now we say dupe. Oh, come on. Are we not saying this? I'm kidding, I'm kidding. Okay, dupe-gazy. But people do say dupe. That's like a whole thing. Okay, what about counterfeit? That sounds scientific.

I know. So then all of us were like examining them side by side to see the differences and it was, that was a fun game. And Eric was, he was trying to pretend like he didn't know whose was whose and try to guess which was real. And he was looking really closely and then he said, do you guys know the saddle stitch is the rarest stitch? And him being him, it was like, what?

How would you possibly know that? From his shoe world. No, no, no, but good guess. So he said that and then all of a sudden, Molly goes, he's kind of obsessed with Hermes now. And I was like, what? Okay, so he started listening to this podcast, Acquired. It's been on for many years.

And they basically do an episode once a month and they spend that month researching a company. And they do a really deep dive on the company and the business practices, the history, all of it. So Eric had just learned about this podcast and he was listening to an episode on Hermes and he said it was so fascinating and so interesting.

And so then, that was that, that was fun. And then we're getting ready to leave the dinner, we're standing at the valet, we're all just chatting and he said, would any of you get a Birkin bag? Which is an Hermes bag, it's like their main bag. Okay. So it was just like really on, it was like very top of mind for him.

Yeah, yeah. And it was quite funny. I didn't think much of it. And then I got in my car and I turned it on. I was like, I wanna listen to this. It's so good. The podcast is very good in general, but it's so good, the podcast is very good in general, but it's so interesting and the history is so fascinating.

And so of course, what happens? I start Googling, I start buying. Oh, buying. Yeah. Oh no, no, no, no. I know, I know, I know, I know, I know. This is not a brand. I know, I know.

And then Eric and I have been texting every four minutes about how we love Hermes now. And then we debated, okay, cause I said maybe I will bring one of the towels for this year's White Elephant. They have these beach towels, they're incredible. I bought two. Okay.

So, and I, cause I remember that I once heard that Anna Wintour gifts them as towels. Oh, okay. All right. Okay. Yep. And they have tigers on them.

Oh, wow. Okay, great. You're the tiger. Yeah. I should have one. them. Oh, wow. Okay, great. You're the tiger. Yeah, I should have one. Yeah, you should since you're year of the tiger. Yeah, you're a tiger. And I saw I said to him, maybe I should bring one to the white elephant.

He said, that's such a good idea. Yes. And then he said, maybe Dax would even want it. And I said, he won't want it. He doesn't care about Hermes. Well, and that's my first overall concern is like, will it fall on deaf ears? Will anyone understand what they're receiving?

Because I certainly wouldn't. And I feel like I'm more positioned to than some others. But you're not, you're positioned more to like be able to have one, but you're not positioned more to know about it. Okay, okay. Okay. I stand down. But then Eric said,

well, Dax is starting to like some things that are fancier. He said like the macho machine. Oh my God, that was just from four years ago. But I wouldn't call that, I mean, it was a very, it's a good machine, but I wouldn't call it a luxury item. No, and I'm making a mental note because I want to hear him tell me how I'm more interested in luxury goods

because I want to hear his take on it. Okay, well also let me see if I can find what he said. Oh, okay, that would be great. Because I can't think of, oh, I know, I know what he's going to say. Yeah, the Burberry sweaters. Oh wow, I forgot. I didn't even think about that.

Guilty as charged, yep. So the thing is about the Birkin, you have to be basically invited to buy it. Oh, it's like a Ferrari. Yeah, you can't just, even if you go to an Hermes store, they won't be there. Oh, okay, and they don't even have one for you to look at? Like you can look at this, but you can't buy it.

Nope, they don't even have one there. to look at? Like you can look at this, but you can't buy it. Nope, they don't even have one there. And they start at like $15,000. Holy moly. My Lord. My Lord. I know. Oh my God. They go up to like, I think there was one I saw for resale

for like $350,000. Oh,000. Oh, guys, for a satchel to carry other bullshit around in? Yes, and actually they, so there's another episode on LVMH that I listened to after, which was also incredibly interesting. And on that episode, they made a very interesting distinction between premium and luxury,

which I thought was quite well said. Okay. They said a premium item is one in which the actual quality and utility is better. Mm, okay. But then the jump from premium to luxury, the quality is not better. It's just a symbol.

Yes, yes, yes. It's a brain. You're buying into scarcity. A dream. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I was saying. Like you're not gonna get a better leather bag than Coach. You know?

Build quality, leather quality, stitch, durability. Like that's just a very well-made, you know. You don't know anything about that. That's what I think, I do, I think so. Okay, no, listen, so Hermes is very specific in that they hand make the bags. The craftsmanship is incredible. It's the only brand currently doing that.

I have to interrupt you because I made a crazy prediction a year ago and I feel so vindicated it's coming true. I was just told by somebody who works at one of these large retailers and they were telling me that they're now offering atelier services. I swear to God, that is actually

in the marketplace currently. But what's that mean? I don't know, but it doesn't matter to me. Remember when I said, this is gonna be the new word, like artisanal and bespoke, that you're gonna see it everywhere. And by God, I heard this major retailer now is offering atelier services.

But maybe it is an atelier. That's the, okay, because you're worried that just anything is gonna be called atelier, like any old store. No, anything that is identified as exclusive and rare will ultimately be taken by large, big retailers and made to mean nothing. Like artisanal, if an artisanal's Subway sandwich,

now artisanal doesn't mean anything. Right, well I agree. It used to mean nothing, like artisanal. If an artisanal subway sandwich, now artisanal doesn't mean anything. It used to mean something, like when it was only being said about little shoe cobblers in Italy or whatever. And so this thing, a tillier, a year ago meant something, and I'm just telling you that I nailed this one, and it's on its way to meaning absolutely nothing. The difference is artisanal is an adjective, okay?

And atelier is a noun, it's a place, it's a thing. It's basically a workshop, a fancy workshop. It's a tiny place where very, very meticulous, bespoke work is done. And so if the atelier is a 25,000. Sweatshop. Yes, then it no longer really means anything. Oh my God.

Yeah, you're right. Okay, I found it. I found it. Eric said, an Hermes towel is also a good gift idea for someone like Dax or Andrew, who is impossible to buy something for. And I said, yeah, but Dax wouldn't get it. He could care less.

Also have to be careful about the way certain families use towels because they have to respect them. He said, he said, it depends. If it really is a luxurious towel, he might embrace it. Like certain shorts or the macho machine. It's like 50-50. And then he said maybe it's 25-75. He doesn't get it.

I'm so glad you're, so Eric and I have had this exact relationship for 12 years. This is how ours began, but it would all be AA stuff. But yet once you enter into the cyclone with Eric on text, it's insane how long they all are. It's so fun. Yeah, and you two, I was participating in writing two page text.

And again, he's the only person I do this with. Yeah, it's really fun. He has such a fun mind. He does, he does. And then I was reminded that you got a shirt from Panay that was, I think, Gucci. Gucci sweater, yeah. And you love that.

I love it. So in some ways he's right. Little bear on it, yeah. He is, he is. I'm a fraud. So I think you're gonna love the towel. Okay. I gotta keep it away from my rascal children though.

It'll end up around Groot in a mud puddle in the backyard as Groot's dress. You know, Delta loves Groot so much and she decided to bring a lot of outfits for Groot. You know, he doesn't, there are no outfits made for him specifically. Of course. There's no accoutrement on that toy line.

He's notoriously nude. Yes, and so she's been like scavenging from different toy lines and has cobbled together this great wardrobe for him. He's a lifeguard. Oh. He has a beautiful dress. Ooh.

Yeah, he has so many looks. And so the whole time in the motorhome, he kept coming up front and he had to be in a new look. Oh my God. Yeah, it was adorable. I mean, maybe for Christmas, I could buy Groot some Hermes. You should get him a, like a washcloth. An Hermes washcloth, but say it's a beach towel.

That's a great idea. It's probably $400. Yeah, you gotta send it to an atelier to have it embroidered. It will be. It already, Hermes is an atelier. It does have an Atelier. I wanna say one thing about those bags. What happens a lot,

it happened to Charles Leclerc, it's happened to, I think another driver, they have these watches, these million dollar watches, and guys come steal their watches in broad daylight right off their wrists. This has happened twice with F1 drivers

in the last two years. Wow. So think how much harder it is to get a watch off someone's wrist than it is to grab a bag. I can't imagine, I can't believe these women feel confident walking around with 350 grand over their shoulder. I mean, okay, to be fair, most are not 350 grand. I just saw one that was. Because the other thing with those bags, like a luxury car, it appreciates, which is rare, right? Like as soon as you buy, sorry, a coach bag,

I mean, a no shade, nothing against it, that depreciates as soon as you take it off the shelf and walk out the door. And our Mez bag immediately goes up in value. So. I have heard this argument a lot over the years. And I wanna be clear, most luxury cars don't. There's only a handful that appreciate.

Well, like one, you have one that does. And I only got it for that reason because it had a three generation proof that that's the trajectory. But I've heard that and yet I've had a three generation proof that that's the trajectory. But I've heard that, and yet I've never met anyone who sold their stuff secondhand and made money. I hear this a lot from- Vintage cars, they make money?

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I've heard about the bags and the Gucci outfits appreciating. Like I think it's a premise everyone's aware of, yet I've never met anyone, and I know a lot of women who aware of, yet I've never met anyone, and I know a lot of women who collect this stuff, I've never met anyone who's actually sold one of these items for a profit. No, but it's a specific level.

It's not like any nice good will resell, resell for a higher amount, but certain brands and certain specific items, like the Kelly bag and the Birkin bag, they're both their mezz, they do. You can look on the resale sites, they're all way more expensive than the actual cost of the bag,

which normally is between 12 and 20,000. And then you can't get it on the resale market for 12,000 unless it's all busted up. But it is an investment. That's why people get them. It's like a car, I mean, it is like a car. It's as much as one. Yeah, okay, well, I'm in a pickle

because I wanna update you on a part of the trip and I also think I don't wanna, I don't think I should say who's at the trip. It feels like it's breaking some conduct. I kind of agree. Yeah. But somebody's on your trip. I just wanna update you that like,

I'm really getting along with this person. I don't know how I'm supposed to feel. Okay. What do you think I should feel, like properly? Like what is my best self feeling? Oh, your best self would, I think, I mean, yeah, again, this is like the dream reaction is, oh, that's great, that confirms that the person I really like

is kind of who I think they are, because I'm a good judge of character and I'm like really drawn to the person. And then I guess a good version of you would be happy for me if I meet someone I like a lot. Yeah, of course. Yeah, and then also that just means probably some chance of them being closer in our circle.

I mean, I don't think it's gonna go that far, but. Yeah, I also, you know what's weird? But you're feeling just jealousy that I'm getting to spend time with the's gonna go that far, but. Yeah, I also, you know what's weird? But you're feeling just jealousy that I'm getting to spend time with the person? No, listen, listen. Oh, okay, listen, listen. Just hold your horses. Yeah, there's someone on the trip

that means an awful lot to me. Yeah. And you sent me a text saying that this person was there. I think even in the text I was like, I don't know if you're gonna like this or. Yeah, exactly. I saw this coming a little bit. You say that to me.

Like when you preface it. Yeah. You get defensive. I don't know what my actual feeling is because now it's prefaced with don't be mad, but maybe you will be. And so then I'm like primed. I'm already like, oh, I'm gonna be mad, but I can't be.

Yeah, when I say that, it's probably a, what do you call, a pre, it's like a pre-apology. So it's like, I think this might make you happy, so I wanna share it with you, or excited. And then I'm also aware of that it could upset you, so I'm like pre-apologizing if I was wrong. Like I'm basically going like,

I've decided to roll the dice that I think you're gonna like this, and then I'm sorry if you don't, if I was wrong about it. I mean, in this case, if you hadn't told me, I would be mad. Yes, that's what I'm, that's actually what I was juggling. I mean, you made the right decision,

but it would be crazy if you didn't tell me. I would definitely feel like, oh, you don't think about me ever. Right, this is exactly the sitch I was in. With also some realistic expectation that you also won't like it on some level, or potentially. Yeah, it's complex. It is, it is.

It's very complicated. I'm happy that you made a new friend. Yeah. And of course I'm happy that you made a new friend. Yeah. And of course I'm happy that this person is what I thought this person was, but also I already knew that and know that. Yeah. Am I jealous of the time you get to spend with this person?

Of course I am, because I think this person and I would be great partners. Together. Yeah. and I would be great partners. Also, you know, it's like an identity thing a little bit. It's like, oh, that person's my person. Like, you can't become best friends with that person. That person lives in my brain. As a thing, as a very specific thing.

Yeah, and if I reverse the roles, I can admit too that yeah, if you were somewhere for a week with Brad Pitt. Exactly, God willing. I know you're likable and there's some chance you two are gonna become best friends when I really wanted to be best friends with him. I'm gonna feel like, yeah, somehow I lost or that was my.

But that's not, I really, I actually don't feel like that. I'm just saying how I could have a knee jerk of like, oh well great, now she's best friends with Brad Pitt. He's not gonna be best friends with me. She just filled that slot. I also feel, I feel pretty certain this person and I are never gonna be best friends. Yeah.

For many, many reasons. Yeah. But I just really want this person to really like me. Right? Yep. And love with me a little, but mainly just like me a lot and respect me and admire me. And you just have the opportunity right now to do that

and I don't. Yep, that's all I'm saying. Yeah, it'd be like if you were, you know, you were racing jet boats in Australia, I'd be happy for you and very jealous I wasn't getting to race jet boats in Australia. Have I come up? And has that crossed your mind?

Yeah, I've definitely said, like I told, of course, like Monica and I went to India with Bill Gates, hit them with a couple of the great Bill Gates stories. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I've said your name multiple times. Okay, and I just wonder if you've mentioned like how good I am at connections and stuff. Not yet, but there's a day left.

Yeah, maybe tonight at dinner, that'll come up. Okay, we've said enough about that product because it's so obvious now, but at any rate, the only other thing I'll add is I took the girls' whitewater rafting yesterday. So Lincoln and I have been the previous three years we go and that's Lincoln's favorite thing. And so this year Delta decided she wanted to try it.

Wow, good job. Good for her. Yeah, with a good deal of nervousness about it. And then of course, as I would do too, as the older sibling, Lincoln wasn't helping, right? Because, you know, I'm sure she preferred. It was her thing. Yes, I'm sure she preferred that just her.

Oh my God, it's all circles back. We all have our things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very, yeah. Natural, very human, natural, normal. Anyway, so we go there and we get on the boat and she's not, she's, I can tell she's definitely having second thoughts.

And we go through the first little ripple and she goes, I don't like this, I don't want to do this. Yeah. I'm like, what is the perfect answer? Because I've got to be realistic, like, well honey, that ship sailed, this is a two hour thing and there's really no getting off this. It's two hours?

Yeah, I think so, yeah. And I, you know, I just tried to reassure her, I'm like, these never flip, they flip like once a season, I've been a bunch of times, it's never flipped. If it flips, gives a shit, you know, I'm gonna swim right to you and grab you You're in a lifejacket You know, let's just walk through all the things Anyways, by the third rapid she really liked it and by the and there's a ten foot rapid

You like there's a ten foot wave you go up and it's actually when they take a picture of you from the banks. Oh, nice. And Delta's like head up staring at the things, screaming with excitement. Oh. It ended and she's like, I want to go again. Can we go again tomorrow? And you know, I like it because they like it. I've now done it four times.

You know, it's great. It's great. it's great. It's a great thing. Two hours is long. Also, you know, I don't have a steering wheel in my hand. It's like I'm on the side rowing. The only part I have is I have a very loud voice. So I yell dig, dig, dig

when we're supposed to be paddling really hard. So yeah, I'm just a passenger. I'm not in control. So maybe that's why I don't love it as much. But you know, it's totally fine. But I did not wanna go again today. But Lincoln went twice. She went by herself the day before.

Wow. Yeah. Good for her. She loves a thrill. She's riding her little dirt bike back and forth to the lodge. Cute. Oh, I'm dying. I'm just dying.

It's so sweet watching them become little people and, and you know, there, there's teenagers here and it's stressful and we're, we're getting into preteen and who's, you know, did they like me? All this stuff. It's all so sweet and heartbreaking. And it's tough. It is, you kind of forget what it's like to be a year or two younger than the teens

and how self-conscious you get. And am I wearing the right thing? Do I, am I doing the right thing? If you're wearing your mes, you are. Like last night that we did karaoke and the little kids sang first. So first it was little kids. They sang for a while.

It was so cute and adorable. And then was teens. Teens had to sing. And you know those teens, they want to get up there and sing, but no one wants to hold the microphone. Yeah. And you're just like, oh yeah, man. There's just this phase of your life you go through where you're so self-conscious.

Like I- So self-conscious. Half of me is like really nostalgic for how fun it was to be a teen and go places and go see if there was other cute teen girls. So I'll get focused on how fun and nostalgic that is. And then I'll willfully neglect how much awkwardness where you're like, you're standing in a room

and then you decide, I'm just gonna go stand in another room because I don't know what I'm doing. Yeah, God. It was constantly moving from room to room, hoping you feel mildly comfortable in one of the rooms. Oh my God. Oh man.

It's so cute. Life is cute. Oh my God, it's cute and stressful. Yeah, it is. Okay, I wanna do some facts. Yeah, let's get to some facts. We did a lot of fashion. We did a lot of fashion We did a lot of jet boat not never enough fashion

But you said pre and post that dinner meaning your now life is all about air maize and I've changed Yeah, I'm forever changed. It's like maybe If someone had asked me before would you ever get a Birkin? I would say no, that's ridiculous. By the way, I think we should add for some detail with Eric. It makes 1,000% sense, even though he is not into style at all. I would say the least.

The least. But this is a man who has collected rare meteorites, he's collected bonsai trees, he collects fucking tortoises, he's collected everything that could be collected and appreciated in value, so of course he loves this. Of course, yeah, and I told him to keep an eye out for any Bergens or Kellys deals.

Deals and steals, but also I don't wanna do a deals and steals, I wanna be invited to buy one. And so I think I'm really gonna have to put in the work. Okay. Okay. And I think I'm gonna have to start buying a lot of stuff and become like a customer. Oh my God.

I think that's how it works. No, don't do it. Don't do it. Play pickleball. You say that, you're gonna love that Tiger towel. Play pickleball instead. Still haven't learned. I did ask Lincoln, she said she would teach me.

Oh, she would love that. Okay, now this is for Kirby. Kirby, just love Kirby. Yeah, I know, she's great. What is self-centered? No, that's not the right word. Self-assured, self-centered is self-centered. No.

No, no, don't scratch that. She is not at all self-centered. No, she is self-assured, yeah. Yeah, very self-assured. That's such an attractive quality in people, isn't it? It sure is. Okay, so I looked up the most popular color for clothes. Oh, ding ding ding, fashion. And it says it depends on, varies by region and time of year. But some of the most popular colors are blue,

classic color. Sure. Black. Primary. Navy. Yeah, these are all neutrals kind of. So blue, black, navy, neutrals, and heather gray. I love heather gray. If it's dark, if it's like a dark Heather Grey.

Like it looks like it's been worn in like a athletic shirt. Yeah, but also Grey is tricky for sweaty people. Yeah. And penises. I didn't know this until Jon Hamm was on, but so many people in the comments were like, oh, he knows what he's doing with those Grey sweatpants. Then I came to find out Grey sweatpants is a thing you wear if you wanna show your dick off.

What? Yeah, I learned that all from the comments. Does it have to be? Oh my God, I need you to take a break from the comments. What are you talking about? It's like the third of our content is my reaction to the comments. No, I know, I don't, it's too much.

Listen, does it have to be gray? We wouldn't have found this out. Does it have to be gray? We wouldn't have found this out. Does it have to be gray? Yeah, apparently gray photographs nicely to show the dick. Oh my God. I mean, you can see where definitely black would not. Yeah, but white I would think would be the most. First of all, I don't think anyone wears white sweatpants.

So this might be the- I do. Yeah, I can't picture any guys that I, I mean, I have no images of dudes wearing white sweat, but regardless, white might even be too bright in that, it doesn't cast any shadows, I don't know. The conclusion is gray sweatpants are the pants if you're looking to show off your junk, you know. Really contours.

Yeah, really outlines it nicely, I guess. Okay. You gotta know I did have to talk myself out of buying some great sweatpants when I learned that's Everyone's doing I would be left behind Getting their dick out there Okay, what are the most popular colors in the world? A worldwide survey reveals that blue

is the most popular color in 10 countries across four continents. Blue. Do you think people naturally love blue because the sky's blue and water's blue? Maybe, I mean, it just has a calming effect. Yeah, like red means danger, lava, fire. Passion and love.

Sure, sure, which there's a time and place for, but I don't know if it's in the work environment. Just like gray sweatpants are not. If you're wearing gray sweatpants to work, HR needs to pull you aside. Listen, Michael, we've all seen your dick now. It's time to not wear those anymore. We all saw.

You can put those away. Yeah, we all got a nice mental image, what's happening. Okay, now I found the National Enquirer commercial. This is unfortunate, because we're on Zoom, you can't see it, but I will play it. Okay. ["The National Enquirer commercial"] I was a photographer injured in a ball with Madonna. I wanna know. You can't see it, but I will play it. Okay How was the photographer injured in a ball with Madonna I want to know will Jeff and balance marriage be the TV wedding of The year this week's national Enquirer tells you what are two surefire tricks to become more creative in the Enquirer

How can you tell if your mate really loves you find out in the Enquirer? How can you tell if your mate really loves you find out in the inquirer? Okay, so you couldn't hear it I guess hold on Okay It didn't work like it. I heard a first frame of it and then I didn't hear anything the whole time Well, it was pretty quiet. Okay the whole time? Well, it was pretty quiet. Okay. Maybe.

But I think the people heard it. Okay, great. Well, you'll find out when you listen back. Okay, women's and men's brains, the way they respond to hungry infant cries. This is from nih.gov. This is very trusted. Researchers asked men and women to let their minds wander,

then played a recording of white noise interspersed with the sounds of an infant crying. Brain scans show that in the women, patterns of brain activity abruptly switched to an attentive mode when they heard the infant cries, whereas the men's brains remained in the resting state. And then previous studies have shown that on an emotional level,

men and women respond differently to the sound of an infant crying. Our findings indicate that men and women show market differences in terms of attention. The earlier studies showed that women are more likely than men to feel sympathy when they hear an infant cry and are more likely to want to care for the infant. And men want to stop the sound.

Yeah. LAUGHS Oh, man. LAUGHS Oh Oh my god. You got to start watching this doc called Perfect Wife. Have you heard of it? No. Oh my god. I think Erin Lee Carr is a producer on it. I don't know if she directed it, but I saw her name in the credits. Oh my god, ding, ding, ding. Why, is that an X fact? No. Oh, cool.

She's a friend of the pod. Oh yes, yes, that's why I said her name is if everyone would know it. Okay, so it's on Hulu, three part doc. The beginning, a man comes home, his wife's not there, his kids aren't there, he pings her phone, it's on the side of a road in Redding, like rural, rural Redding, California.

He drives there and finds her phone on the side of the road and then she's missing. That's where it starts. And it is wild. It's absolutely wild. It's really good. Now, highly recommend, yeah. Do watch, do watch.

We'll watch. Okay, Picasso's quote is learn the rules like a pro so you can break them like an artist. Ooh, nice. Yeah, I like that. Nice. Can I just say, I think ours would be the almost polar opposite of that quote,

which would be like, come in as an artist and try to figure out how to be a pro. Right? I think. I went from like just being interviewed and like thinking I should be talking 75% of the time to like figuring out, going from being an artist to a professional.

A professional. Yeah. So mine was learn how to be an artist so you can learn how to be a professional. I see what you mean. Yeah. But I love this quote and I also agree with it in general in life. You should probably learn how to do everything by the book first, like know that. And then you get to play and know when you can break these rules.

I was even thinking out with editing, like in this episode I left one of your coughs in, which I normally never would. So like a rule would be to cut it, but I left it because it had a funny enough moment after that I decided was worth keeping. So that's my artistry. There's just so much information

in the way you phrased one of your coughs. Like if you were just hearing us for the very first time and someone heard how you phrase that, they would know my whole history with coughing. Mm-hmm. Because you didn't say, I left in a cough, you coughed, and I left it in. You said one of your coughs.

Jesus Christ. Oh my God. Well you have a trademark. I'm a warthog. Okay, I looked up hearing loss, and unfortunately it looks like it can start to decline as early as our 30s and 40s But typically around the 50s to early 60s

It's a rough road for us entering those decades the stye sites just in a fucking nosedive If I start losing my hearing too, I don't know how I'm gonna manage Well, especially with a career we've chosen Well, luckily we have literally half What if I'm like literally half, and you said I had to cut out one of your, what was that? Oh no. I had to cut out one of your, would you repeat that? What if I had to start sitting

increasingly closer to the guest? Oh my God, oh. That'll actually be sweet. It'll be a really nice marker of time. Yeah, I guess our guy, Larry King, he was pretty darn close to those guests. Yeah. Yeah. He was almost face to face.

True. That's all the facts. Okay. Well, again, I can't put too fine a point on how much I love Kirby. Yeah, me too. Very self-centered. Very self-centered. She's so self-centered.

Mm-hmm. All right, well I love you. Well, I hope you enjoy your last day, and I hope you maybe bring me up like at least half a dozen times before you go. Okay, yes, and I wanna add, if you're listening to this and you're a cat burglar, I'm home by the time you hear this, and I need you to know that homeowner

is also a bow and arrow owner. So yeah, and other weaponry. Yeah, but also that's for real, you are home. Yeah, I am home now. All right, I love you. Okay, love you.