Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Lukas Gage

Episode Date: July 6, 2026

Lukas Gage (I Wrote This For Attention, Voicemails for Isabelle, and The White Lotus) is an actor and author. Lukas joins Armchair Expert to discuss growing up in a chaotic family in San Diego, surviving a brutal hate crime as a teenager, and being sent to a troubled teen wilderness program. Lukas and Dax talk about navigating Hollywood as a closeted actor, the surreal experience of getting married on The Kardashians, and Conor McGregor fracturing a disc in his back while filming Road House. Lukas explains how a BPD diagnosis changed the way he understood himself, how shame and secrecy can distort identity, and what it means to stop performing for other people's approval.Check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds: https://www.allstate.com/See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert. I'm Dach Shepherd. I'm joined by Monica Padman. Hi. We have an actor with an incredible story and we're blessed with his memoir, which is I wrote this for attention. Today we have Lucas Gajon and, you know, wild story, right? Really wild. And he was very open with us and it was really lovely.

Yes, incredibly vulnerable. He was in The White Lotus, Euphoria, You, Fargo, Smile 2, and he has a new movie out now on Netflix, voicemail for Isabel. Great movie. Great movie. I want to say that. Great movie.

Great. Please enjoy Lucas Gage. He's an objectster. I love your outfit. You smell really good. Do I smell good? Yeah, you do. You do.

Was I so weird to you at that barbecue on Sunday? Oh, no. Let's start with me apologizing to you. No, I apologize. I feel real. No, pull your microphone. Let's start. This is already exciting.

So you and I were both had a party. Yeah. On Sunday. You want to out who it was? We love him. Oh, Phineas. Okay. Yeah, we were at Phineas's party.

Yeah. And you were there and we said hi to each other. And you said, oh, I'm doing the show this week. And I said, I know I'm really excited. Yeah. And then I was like, I got to get the fuck away from this guy immediately because I don't want to talk to you. That's what I felt. cover a bunch of fun stuff about you and then have to replicate that today.

And then I left the party. I was even talking to Ryan. Do you know Ryan Hanson? Do you know that after? I know who he is, but I saw you with him. Yeah. We then were together the rest of the day. And I was just a whole day.

I was like, I'm so worried that Lucas thinks I'm a dick. But I just was so like I don't want to blow our wad. I'm really glad you made that move because then, yeah, this whole episode would have just been repeats. That's what I felt, though. I was spiraling that I felt like I was being a dick to you. Oh, no. You talked to Kristen a bunch, right? Yeah, Kristen was great.

She was so lovely. And then I was like, I need to like make up for being so weird about like that. I was holding a taco and I didn't shake your hand because I had a taco in my hand. Oh, no. I didn't notice any of that. I was hyper aware that I didn't want to blow my load before our podcast. And then I realized later. It was very mutual.

Okay, good. I'm glad. I'm glad. I was neurotic about the fact that you're like, what a dick. Like, hey, I'm doing your show this week. I'm like, cool, see you later. That's what it felt like. No one wanted to just say like, we shouldn't talk because we're going to have to save it.

everyone felt too scared. I probably should have just said that. I don't even know that I connected what my impulse was until after the fact. Okay. Like, I don't even know if in that moment I knew. I don't think I did either. Yeah. I thought about it later.

I was like, maybe that's why I was so awkward with him. I was so aware. And I feel like I have this weird parisocial relationship with you guys because I've listened to your podcast. Oh, you have. That's so nice. Yeah.

Oh, we love that. Oh, that's so flattering. It's a weird kind of balancing act of like, do I talk to them before? Do I tell them that I'm, I don't know. I love that. I'm glad we had the same experience. Yes. And you know what's really funny, Lucas, is that we've had guests arrive like really early.

And they've been neurotic about not wanting to talk to me. And I have said to them, don't worry. We'll have plenty. Like, you don't need to worry about blowing. Even Letterman kept going like, oh, let's get inside. Oh, oh, yeah. Yeah, like he is like, Letterman was like worried we were going to blow stuff. Well, he's the master of conversation.

Of course. So he knows. Yeah, but also it's Dave Letterman. I bet we'll be fine. Yeah. That's nice to know even he has those anxieties too. That's nice. Isn't it comforting?

That is comforting. Yeah, all of us are terribly insecure. Yeah, we are. Well, your wife made me feel a lot better about it. I talked to her about my insecurity about it. She told me that she had a very nice chat with you. She was lovely. Yeah, and I think she told me she said like, oh, well, don't worry, Dex.

We'll make sure you're fine. You didn't say that. And I will. She was very sweet. And then she was like crocheting the coolest thing I've ever seen in my life. Oh, I know. She's making like a bandana thing, point-tale. Yeah, it's like really intricate though.

I know. She'll also do that like on a roller coaster, right? There's no place she won't be. I'm obsessed. Yeah, she could be on the back of a motorcycle and she would be doing it. I want one. I really want one. You want to learn?

No, I want her to make me one. Okay, but we also met in Austin. I'll never forget it. Okay, tell me. First, I'll say, I've never seen someone be so composed at a Q&A as you were. You blew my mind. It was the most nuts Q&A about time. What was it?

What was the thing? It was the thing. It was the thing. You were there for Roadhouse. Were you an audience? Yes, I was a crazy premiere. Yes. I mean, people were just wasted.

Yes. Please give me your perspective because Monica and I have ours. We were there. We experienced it. But please give me your perspective. And we'll both be running the risk of getting beat up by Connor McGregor. I already got in trouble for saying that he fucked my backup and he got mad at me. I met in a loving way.

I was glad that he beat me up on set. I was like, that's so cool. I love that. I could say Connor McGregor, like, fractured my. You're in a list of very tough people. Totally. No, I felt really cool. And I meant it as a compliment.

I just remember being next to Post Malone, Jake Gyllenhall, and Connor McGregor and being like, what the fuck am I doing here? I don't belong here. And I remember you were so sweet. Maybe you're just a good person. I think you could feel how nervous I was. And you said something about, guys, have you seen Fargo? This kid's really good at acting.

It was so sweet. You are a very sweet. That's very sweet. That's very sweet. Do you remember the fucking. goofy golfing, dorky husband. Oh, I know. I know.

So good. Thank you guys. You're just like every time the guy talked, you're like, oh, fuck, dude. I would hate to be that. And that was such a good season. Yeah, it was a great season. That was the best. It was so good.

Fuck, that was a good season. Thank you. You were so sweet. And I just remember being completely in over my head. I was in over my head as well. I couldn't tell. You were so composed. I don't know how you pulled it off.

Well, to set the context. So we got invited to after a screening of Roadhouse. house, Q&A with the cast. And then I said I would do that if we could interview Connor. Yes. So we had done that earlier in the day. Connor and Jake together. Okay.

We did have a really sweet moment at the end of that interview where I was encouraging him to embrace the kid who got beat up, who then pursued this because he had been humiliated. And remember that boy and let the other boys know that it's okay to be that boy, right? I just begged him. I'm like, so many dudes look at you as the apex of masculinity, you have a great opportunity. you have a great opportunity. I just urge you to share the vulnerable stuff.

And he, like, connected with that. He also started drinking in the interview. And it was pretty early in the day. And I just was more like, wow, this is going to be fascinating to see how he manages this day. He's got a lot of day ahead of them. I know he's got a lot of press and then we've got this screening. So we go off and fuck off and have some barbecue and we do whatever. And then we go to the Q&A.

Or rather, we go to the movie at night. And then I have this whole thing where I try to go in the bathroom security stops me. The bathroom's blocked off, but then it's him in there and then he lets me in. Says, I know that was like just stage one of like this. And then we were seated one row behind them. And I was just staring at him the whole screening, right? He also travels with a crew. 20 people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So many people and everyone was having a lot of fun. Yeah. He has his own whiskey, right? So he's drinking a fifth. What I did notice at one point, I'm watching him drink whiskey and pour glasses for people.

And then I noticed the bottle's gone, right? And I watched him open the top. So I was like, okay, a fifth of whiskey has been drank during this premiere. New bottle comes out. I'm watching some other stuff that I'll say I'll get sued for. But I'm making some assessments about what all's going on. But at the time we get on that stage, and I think I even said to Monica, as I was walking up, I was like, well, let's see what this is going to be like.

And then you felt like it out of saying, you're in the movie. I have nothing to do with that movie. So I'm already dealing with that. Like, are people like, why is this guy doing this? He wasn't in the movie. Quite quickly, Connor takes charge. Yeah. And it's a live audience.

And when I'm asking certain cast members questions, he's answering, I'm now like, how do we play this? I know what I would normally do, which is I would start making fun of this person gently, who's on stage and everyone's feeling this. And also it's Connor McGregor. And is he going to fucking kick my ass in front of everybody? Talk about the stakes being the highest, I think. Because you have the onstage component.

And then you have the, is he going to beat me up if I make fun of them? And then I did start gently making fun of him. I said to the woman in the cast, I was like, I'm going to ask you this question. To Jessica, I remember. Jessica. But Connor's going to answer. Yeah. And everyone starts dying laughing.

And I'm literally like, is this the moment he turns and looks at me with that haunting look in his eyes? It just comes after me. But he laughed. He had a good thing to hear about it. And I'm like, okay, we got away with that one. And then it was just me trying to pepper in some jokes acknowledging that we had all lost control of this Q&A because Connor was up there. The craziest thing that happened right afterwards was he had hugged me and he was trying to connect with me over that kind of moment we had had in that thing, which was beautiful. Yeah.

But I also can't understand what he's saying because he's a very thick Irish accent. Maybe he was a little drunk. I'm having PTSD from all the times I've been around tough dudes who are too drunk to know they're repeating something and then they catch you catching them and then they want to fight. Totally. So I'm like, how am I navigating this? We're embracing. This is so stressful. And then by the grace of God, his manager passed out.

I was about to say. I forgot about that. This is so funny. I thought about this two days ago. This is so sin and weird. It just popped in my head that that was scary. Yeah, no, it was scary. Someone like ran up to him.

Someone was having maybe a seizure in the audience. And then thank goodness that happened, not for that poor person. That is so, I can't believe that was the end of that. But Connor was like, what? I know. Oh, come. Like he was in rescue mode. He was.

Oh my God. From the second he let go me, I remember just looking at my going to go, let's get the fuck out. Yeah, we got to go. Because I've not gotten beat up yet. I was so scared. I was like Googling later. What happened to this guy? Yeah, me too. And it was like dehydration or something. I saw my breakfast and he was fine. Totally fine.

Yeah, yeah, completely. He's like, it happens every time I go out. But I'm trying to remember if it was you. I think because that whole thing happened. Then the next day, a lot of guys were checking out from the movie and I was out there checking out. And then I was chatting with some guys. I want to say, I think I was talking to you. I was talking to you.

Yeah. And someone on the set was telling me that what they figured out while making that movie was that he had arrived with a bodyguard. And at first, everyone in the cast assumed, oh, people probably try to fuck with him. That guy's here to protect Connor. And then it started occurring to everyone throughout the shoot. Oh, no, that guy's here to protect us. Yeah. Wow.

What a way to go through the world. I mean, wild experience, yeah? The most insane experience of all time. And then just throwing in Jake Gyllenall, Donnie Darko. was my shit as a kid. So I'm like just trying to keep it together and not a fan girl over him and not get killed by

Connor McGregor at the same time. There's a lot to balance. Jesus Christ. Yeah, stressful. So stressful. And it's the best. And it's like Lyman. So it's also a wild director.

Everything changes every minute. Yeah. Was that the craziest work experience you ever had? The craziest I've ever had, but the best experience. And I remember Jake saw me getting a little like frustrated in the beginning and not knowing what to do and just holding on of my preparation too much and trying to be like the good student.

And he was like, treat every take like a rehearsal. Nothing matters. Everything's going to change. We're just rehearsing. Oh, cool. Kind of changed my whole mind. Then I was fine. Okay, great.

Then I was good. He's lovely. He's great. It's also a very machismo set, right? It's like all the guys are going to be shirtless. We've got to be jacked. He's probably working out. Oh, yeah.

And then Conner's around. Everyone's fucking even more tripped out. Yeah. It was insane. It was like a fight camp in Dominican Republic. It's great. Jesus Christ. I can only imagine how that experience would have gone for me at your age

were I in that movie and Connor was there. And then let's say I was drinking too. I wouldn't have got through the whole thing without some. I would be here with like an eye patch on probably. Speaking of you, a very nice teeth. Oh, really? They're fake. They are.

I got him knocked out. How did you get him knocked out? I got jumped. when I was 18. What? I'm all these scars in my face. Oh my God. It sounds very traumatic,

get your smiling very large. This is because you're so happy to have gotten the team. I love my fake team. They're great. I love my busted veneers. No, no. That's my go-to. I like laugh about the most fucked up shit and cover it up with a smile and talk about

the most mundane things as it's very emotional for me for some reason. But yet, I was out of party and got jumped. My friend got beat up for being gay. And I think there was maybe some part of me that was subcontacted. I wasn't out or anything, but I was protecting him and myself, I think. Yeah. And I jumped in and guys just beat the shit out of me.

Oh, my God. How many guys is this a San Diego party? San Diego party, yeah. Explain the dudes. Are they surfer dudes? Are they fucking glamorous dudes? They're like somewhere in between. They were like rich kids that were a little broie and a little, a little MAGA vibes, I think.

Uh-huh. And yeah, I don't know. Did you watch Veronica Mars? Of course. They shot in Oceanside. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kind of Jason Doreen's crew, it sounds like, like kind of rid.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was very much the vibe in San Diego. He just got beat up for being gay. And the guy was wearing a pink tank top and called him a f***. And I was like, you're the fuck you're wearing a pink tank top. Uh-huh. That didn't go well. It didn't not go well.

Yeah. Oh, my God. So, yeah, five guys against me, like, broke my teeth, broke my nose, broke my orbitals. Oh, my God. That's why I have a very punchable face. No. I do.

I do. It's okay. You have a lovable face. Thank you. Were you in the hospital for this? I was, yeah. This is horrible. For how many days?

Just like a day after it happened and then I had to go back to put everything back together for a bit. Okay, there was a little reconstruction. There was a little reconstruction going. My nose was like completely fucking. Really rough. Really rough. Yeah. Okay.

These guys go to jail? I left this part of the story. I threw the first punch after he got mad of me calling me back. even though he was already attacking the kid and they got lawyers that said that technically it was self-defense. Oh my God. I know. No one got faulted for it. It was bullshit.

It's like no fault accident. I don't like that. You don't like it. No, because it's his fault. How much older is Corey your brother than you? Is that the same Corey? Yeah, Corey seven years older. And when he found out about this, what was his reaction?

How did you know that, though, by the way? You do your research. Well, yeah, that's my job. That's like, he just scratched the surface. You wait. He knows a lot of it. You know, he was in the army at that time and dealing with his own recovery and I think he got kicked out of the army at the same time. And we were not in the best of speaking terms at that moment.

So he didn't go ape shit. He would have if he was there. Yeah, yeah. He would have been Big Brother protective mode for sure. Okay, so is it just you two? I have three older brothers. Three older brothers. Yeah.

Okay. What are the ages? Corey's the second oldest. He's the second. Jesse's the oldest. He's nine years? How am I'm on how old is? No, he's a lot.

My mom was 19 when she had him. Oh, really? And then that husband passed away. May I ask how that's young to pass away? In a motorcycle accident. Oh. Yeah, my mom rode motorcycles together. Oh, my God.

Yeah, it was bad. It was really bad. It was like a month before he was born. Oh. Yeah, it was gnarly. Yeah. So then years later, my mom was a badass and got in trouble for, like, selling drugs. She needed a lawyer and met Corey's dad.

Oh, wow. He ended up being an asshole. They separated and then she met me and my full brother, Travis, his dad and he's four years older than me. And you're the baby. And I'm the baby, yeah. She called it after that. I think I was her favorite mistake. I don't think I was supposed to be more. Okay. And how long were your mom and dad together? How did they mean? What did he do for a living? I just know he's from New York. Yeah, he was a genius, went to Cornell at 14, skipped a bunch of grades. They met at a bar. Oh, he's a vunderkin. Yeah, he was next level smart. And then met my mom at a bar in San Diego and I think

was one of his first relationships ever, like at 28. Oh, okay. So he's kind of a geeky? Totally, yeah. And your mother was wild. Completely the opposite. He just had to hang on for dear life. Yeah, they worked out.

I don't know, for a little bit. How long were they together? They were together for, I want to say, like, eight years. And what do he do for a living? He was a doctor. What kind? He did a bunch. He was an anesthesiologist and then worked in pain management.

And you've lost track? I lost touch with him. He left when I was a teenager. He got remarried and had kids and decided that was... Yeah, that was a... You've already had a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Even since you've been on TV, he hasn't felt compelled to reach out? He's reached out, like, once or twice since that, like, 10-year gap of not talking. When I was your age, I was probably at apex issues with my dad. Look, I think maybe there's time for things to change.

And I think as I've gone, older, the anger I've had for him as dissipated and more until, I guess, an understanding of like just like a different time that he was grown up and the way that he was shown love as a kid and the way that that was passed on. Like, I feel like you can only show the love or give the love that you were shown as a child, you know? So I can kind of have compassion for him. Because he was so brilliant in one category, does he have deficits in others? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Socially. Yeah. Yeah. If he's 28 and he's meeting his first girlfriend. 100%. Yeah. And he was at Cornell at 4.000.

teen. He's probably not having the real college experience. He was there with Ronan. There. I love Ronan. The undercan. Yeah. So what was life like in Encinitas? It was amazing. It was like Veronica Mars. We had surf pee at school. You did. Oh, yeah. We started school with surfing every day. You wore shorts to school and hats and tank tops. Yeah. Oh my God. No that was allowed in my school. Was it in Arizona? Shorts? Shorts. Shorts were definitely allowed. Shorts are not allowed in school. I guess they must have been. looks cool. Yeah, you're allowed to wear shorts. I don't remember wearing shorts. But they had to

be two fingers thick. So, like, why? Like, that's so stupid. Well, those people's tithies are hanging out. Yeah, the tits are out. Well, I don't think the two straps help. Well, it doesn't hurt. You know a spaghetti strap. All right. What about hats? Could you wear hats? I don't think

we were allowed to wear hats. Yeah, they draw a hard light. Why was it? Why is it? I know, why is hats the thing? I think it's a carryover from, like, it being rude to wear a hat and indoors from like the 30s. Somehow it's a sign of disrespect. Do you think it's like a racism thing? Not at my school.

Okay. Yeah. Where did you guys go to school? I was in Georgia. In Georgia? So, you know, there's that southern politeness. Totally. So that maybe is part of it.

We know about a restaurant where they didn't allow hats because they didn't want black customers. Yeah. So I think she's graphing on that a little bit. I'm saying maybe that has something to do with it. I don't think it did. I'll ask. Yeah.

Because no student was like, what's the hat policy? Yeah. I'm not going to that one. You're going to whatever school in whatever district you're born. You're not like shopping. Where were you? In a suburb of Detroit. Okay.

And how did you do socially? I was fine. I think I got by. Middle school was rough, right? I had to change middle schools. Yeah. Okay. What happened in middle school?

This fucking kid, I stole my brother Corey's cigarettes and we smoked a cigarette. And then he told the whole school that like I'd tied him down and forced him to. Forced him to smoke. Yeah. Oh. That was the thing that they bullied me for. Oh. So funny.

Yeah. It's very abstract. It's really abstract. But I think it turned a little gay. Like I pinned him down and forced him to. That was the subtext. Yeah, that was the subtext. We're calling this a smoking infraction, but it's a gay infraction, for sure.

So I just got completely tortured. And then I went to the new school in the new district and was like, I'm not going to be fucked with. I'm going to be the asshole. You made a pivot. And then I was like the dick for a year. Okay. So you were Jason Doring from also. Yeah.

I think everyone in Orange County might have had Jason Doreen's character from. At some point, yeah. I think you have to be. Can you tell me about the loneliness of that middle school when you're getting bullied in the self-consciousness? And you hear like the footsteps running and you're like, oh, fuck, is this fight for me? Do you have all that stuff? I was terrorized and getting beat up every day and getting shot down with like BB guns. And it was what you think of when you see school bully stuff on TV where you're like, that doesn't happen.

And did you have anybody that were like, I'm so sorry this is happening? My brothers. Okay. And Travis, they were like having my back and being protective. They were my friends. When does Corey start getting mixed up with drugs? He started using heroin at 14. At 14.

How did that come into his purview? I think just friends out. Heroin was really popular in San Diego. Like by the time I graduated, about eight people in my class had overdose. Really? Yeah. Wowzers. Do you attribute that to its proximity to Mexico?

Yeah. I mean, we would go to Tijuana and get drugs when we were kids and go at lunch and get tacos and drugs and then go back to school. Yeah, I read that you would go at lunch to Tijuana. Yeah. That's crazy. to me. What? How far is it? It was easier back then, too, to go back and forth through the border, but it was probably a 30-minute, 20-minute drive, and then you just park your car at the McDonald's

and walk over and then walk back. Wow. Yeah. I had this girlfriend in high school who kind of, like, showed me the ropes and was iconic and was like, we're going to go get all these stuff, and I'm going to come bring it back, and I guess maybe they knew where to go and where to get it, but I just remember it being so easy. That is wild. That's dangerous. Yeah. Very. If I could have left my high school and a half an hour of mine. Shit, that would have been problematic. Would you drink at lunch? Yeah, everything.

Okay. Everything. I got it all out of my system by the time I was 18. But you go to your dad's house on Father's Day when you're 13 to see him. You spend the night. I can't believe this research. Holy shit. What happens?

I get Paris Hilton. I get kidnapped in the middle of the night and sent to a wilderness camp. It sounds so nice when you call it a wilderness camp. Yeah. So you had that full. experience. Yeah, I got fully kidnapped. When it's happening, is your dad shouting, I arrange this. You're going to a wilderness camp. You're going to be a great repeller when you're done with this. Don't worry, but do worry. Yeah, yeah. I think he couldn't even look at me.

I think he couldn't look at me. And I remember calling out for his help and being like, this is your chance to make it right. What were the behavioral things that had led up to that decision on their part? It was a nightmare kid. I think not only was I starting to use substances as a really young age. I found out later that my mom, she was in cahoots with my dad about it. That was the biggest shock to me because I didn't think my mom would do that. But I think other than that, I mean, as a kid, I was crying out for attention, crying out for validation, screaming, fighting, biting.

I literally bit kids all of elementary school. Oh, you were a bider. I was a biter. So I definitely had behavioral problems. You always hear people talking about the biter in their school, but you don't ever meet the biter. I was the biter. Would you see like a little piece of a part of someone's body?

I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna fucking sink my teeth into that. Do you remember premeditation or was it very impulsive? No, it's not kiki like it is now. I think it would be like a kid would beat me on handball and like be mean to me about it. And then I'd be like, oh, I'm going to fuck you up and like push him and bite him. And by him. Yeah, I got rage. I would see red as a kid and I would go off and I got applauded for it too.

My big brothers, they loved it. They would dare me. We loved jackass growing up. and all that stuff. So I'd get naked and go into like the vons and scream. Oh my God. But they would videotate me on their skateboard. Like so I was rewarded for being a little shit.

Yeah. That was the way I got attention. That was the way I got validation. That was the way I felt like they loved me. Yeah. You know? I feel bad because like I am judgmental of anyone who sends their kid to a wilderness camp, but also I imagine being the parent.

You're like, you're terrified, right? What do you do? You're like, they're going to die. Yeah. 100%. So I'm going to walk in and I'm going to go to wake them up for school and they're going to be dead. So whatever thing I'm going to choose is going to be less bad than that. Yeah. And I think my mom too, being a single mom, dealing with a kid that was using heroin, I think she was just like, I cannot deal with another nightmare.

We have to reform this kid, get him away. And was Corey getting into legal trouble and medical issues. Oh, yeah. And so she was really at max capacity. She was deep in it and like working and trying to keep her head above water. It was crazy. I think you have the thing I had, right? which is like, dad laughs, so dad's the villain and mom's an angel.

No, my mom wasn't perfect either. Okay, yeah. But I love her and I ride for her no matter what. Yeah. Like, she's a badass and took care of us. And actually, yeah, I kind of get into that, yeah. Because you're like, oh, one stuck around. And you're like, fuck, they got one stuck around.

I really owe this one, you know, once you realize it's an option to leave. I was a mama's boy. I still am a mama's boy. Yeah, that's lovely. Yeah. So what was the wilderness camp? Like, also, I'm sure the literature that was shown to them, the pamphlet, probably looked really constructive.

Oh yeah, it was like orange growth. Like something really like happy and constructive. I remember them thinking it would be a good thing. And it was just chicken in a bag, rice in a bag. Here's your tent. Learn how to build it. Go hike for like 12 hours. Be alone.

I did something bad one day. Like I wrote an SOS letter and like sent it around and ran away in the middle of the night and like made it with like the arts and crafts. I crafted an SOS letter and they put me in isolation in the middle of the mountain for like a day. They would do the classic thing where they knock you down to build you back up and think that their system is the right way to do it and just make you feel horrible about yourself. Did it have any positive impact on your behavior? No. I did the complete opposite.

I rebelled twice as hard. When I came out, I fucking was even more of a nightmare. I didn't trust anybody. Yeah. I fought with other kids. I don't know. I made me resilient maybe. Sure.

I think it all fucked up things, but I don't even want to give them that. Yeah. You know, but like, I guess every bad thing that has happened to me or every hardship I've gone through, I have learned something from that, I think. It's one more thing you're like, well, I survived that thing. Yeah, proof of survival. I did. Yeah, exactly.

I lived and now I'm past that. I don't subscribe to what they did. That was another common thing in my high school was like people went to juvie and rehabs and Utah, like all these crazy places that were doing way worse shit. I was molested at a regular summer camp, not at that camp. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which you have really helped me with, by the way. Have I?

Well, just the way that you talk about it, I've had a therapist telling me a hundred times, it's not your fault, it's not your fault. And when you talked, I think it was on Anna Kendrick's podcast or another podcast, you talked about no matter how many times people can say that you felt like you were an active participant. There was a curiosity there. Yeah. There's some culpability you're aware of.

Mine was I wanted this go cart. You know, like I knew I should not be there. Yeah. I really wanted this go cart. I was being promised that I could buy it for a very suspicious. Buy it. You still had to buy it? You still to buy it?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no. It's a bad deal. This thing was worth like $500, but I was going to be able to buy it for $100. And I had a whole plan I was going to mow this many grasses. Oh, no way. So sad. It's just fucking gruesome.

But I got to tell you, man, I've had a new light shown on that whole experience. We had this expert who teaches at Johns Hopkins, and she's ahead of this program that does nothing but study child sexual abuse. And she's like 70% of sexual abuses by other kids. And so although this dude was way older than me, he also wasn't 18. Now I don't know. Like I used to have this guilt of like, fuck, I should have turned him in. I don't know how many people he fucked with. But now after talking to her, I'm like, I don't know that he ever did.

I don't know. Like it might have just been this weird fucking thing. I don't know if he was a pedophile or what. I get that your mind goes to like not being able to like put it together or piece it together what it actually was. I think for so long I felt like, well, I wanted it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, my therapist could be like, well, you're in your 20s and would you hook

up with a 10 year old? And I'm like, fuck no. Right. But it didn't matter. But when I heard you talk about that and the way that you had those conflicting thoughts about it because you wanted that thing and you were looking for that thing that you felt so much guilt and shame and to look back at little Dax and little Lucas and be like, yeah, but of course you did.

You want to go back. Yeah, I'm like, yes, I'm a fucking kid. I did ignore my spidey senses. 100%. I violated my body telling me something. And also, yeah, I was a little kid who wanted a go cart. And I can't forgive that. I can't just pretend that I didn't get any signals.

That was the part that was corrosive to me. Yeah. I was like, I knew there was some part of me that played a role, right? That's what I felt. Yeah. I think that's where the real guilt is. I think people miss it who hasn't happened to. I think so too.

And I don't know if you did this. My go-to was make a joke about it being like, how could I not have been molested? I was like a slutty little 10-year-old. Like that was my joke that I would go to it until my... You were irresistible. I was irresistible. And my therapist is like, you have to stop doing this. You cannot use that as a coping mechanism.

Right. It's weird. Like I can have a medical professional tell me it 100 times, but hearing you talk about that and that interview really, really, really, really... Oh, that makes me resonatively, man. Really happy. Yeah. Stay tuned for more armchair expert.

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I remember there was a moment where Monica was getting interviewed by. by a therapist or hypnotist. And she was telling this story. And I had seen her tell it a million times. And the therapist said, I don't know why you're smiling. Yeah, it was Gobramante. Oh, of course it was.

Yeah, he said, why are you smiling? He said, is it funny? And I was like, no. I mean, I was telling like a sad story or something. I don't remember what I was saying. But I said, no. And then he was like, why are you smiling? And then it wasn't rhetorical.

He was really asking. And I was like, I guess because I'm unconstitutional. comfortable and you really had to start like breaking it down breaking it down i mean i was doing it i did it earlier too right i get it right i get it i do it it it's almost like you want the other you're signaling like i'm good i'm good don't feel bad i want to make you comfortable so you don't feel like uncomfortable with my weird shit with this awkward story i'm telling you 100% yeah i'm being vulnerable but not too vulnerable so that you then feel uncomfortable yeah god why do we do that no well we're social animals yes but be this way and i'm apologizing but be this way and i'm apologizing

that I am and then I'm going to try to make it as light as possible. So we can all. But you're saying when that happened, you noticed. When it happened to you. Yeah. You realize you do it. And someone wasn't challenging me on why I was smiling. Like, I went to got defensive with that question.

Right. Or made up some on the spot justification. But I just was watching my sweet friend smile at something that really didn't warrant smiling. And I thought, well, how sad on top of sad that that is happening? And then I was like, yeah, and I do that too. Everyone does it. Yeah. Yeah.

What age do you get fixated on acting? Right after I got jumped. I did like little things as a kid and I would hide it. You know, I did a warts commercial and then fucking kids found it in high school. Oh, God. Warts? Pound Worse. Oh, no.

Oh, my God. I tried to hide it from the whole school. Wait, hold on, hold on. Vennaroids? No, no. I got that later. I was a kid? I got that later in life.

Oh, I mean, come on. CB. We all have it. Oh, my God. No, no, it was the compound WRts on your fingers. Oh, right. Yeah. Do you remember when you got the roll your pump?

You're also like, this is fucking career suicide for my high school. Yeah, I remember feeling both of those things and just really trying to hide it. And I was hiding like doing plays and stuff and in the town over because it's gay. Yeah, you were obviously, you had a real secret. Yeah, a lot of secrets. They're corrosive. You said you have a cousin that came out gay and always knew. And you had some jealousy of that.

Yeah. And then I guess that's interesting. It should be obvious. There's every version of everything on planet Earth. but I'm so used to hearing gay folks say, like, oh, yeah, I always knew. And I kind of am interested in the notion that it could be a slower burn. I think, honestly, a lot of it, like my first sexual experiences was, sorry to talk about molestation so much, being molested by a guy. So there was a lot of that wrapped up into it.

So I really loved these girlfriends I had. I was, like, obsessed with them. I was obsessed with love from a very young age. And I was so happy to just, like, be sexual and be physical and be in love with. these girls and if any kind of thought like that would go through my mind I would justify it with like well I was molested though that's like yeah some residual trauma from that 100% I don't know if I blacked out before that of having that awareness but I really don't think I did I really think that any kind of inkling or curiosity or suspicion of it was then being like but you got molested

that's why that of course you feel that way sometimes but like you love your girlfriend you You love your girlfriend. And a part of me really did. Yeah. Yeah. And a part of me said something on some podcasts where I pissed people off or I said like I'm 10% straight or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because like every once in a while, I do have sex with girls.

I know I'm pretty damn gay. You know, like I'm pretty gay. Do you watch English teacher? I've watched English teacher, yeah. I love it so much. I think it's a funny show ever. So funny. But in the second season, he goes and he's around either his sister or his female friend's fiancee.

and the guy is presenting is very, very gay, but he's saying he's by. At some point, he confronts him. I don't know if you saw this, and he's like, I don't know, man, you're reading very gay to me. Like, what percentage?

And the guy's like, well, I'm 90% gay and 10% buy. And he goes, so you're 5% straight. Or whatever the math was. Maybe that's where I got it from. And like literally elite into my interview. He doesn't matter.

Well, if you're 10% gay, You realize. That is so funny. But why are they bad about that? That's so crazy. It's just like everyone needs these boxes. Yeah, you need to. I know.

I know someone is. Yeah, let's hear you. I do. I do. I know someone like this. And it's all heartbreaking. This is all the byproduct of fucking being shit on and victimized. So it's like there is a period for some gay dudes where they feel like the easier,

softer path is to say I'm by. 100%. We all at least, right? Buy now, gay later. That's like a saying from the. 90s when kids would first come out as bye. And so, by now, gay, later.

Yeah. It's pretty good. Kind of like it. Yeah, it's solid. Want to get a tattooed on me? Yeah, yeah. Lucas likes it. I like it.

Yeah, yeah. Oh, my God. You never heard that. I've never heard it either. I think because in the 90s, people were starting to really identify as bye. Right. It was a new thing.

And then people were like, bye now, gay later. But for those people who had that specific thing, where they were just gay, but they were pretending to be by to lessen the blood. everyone around them. They then realized I was being dishonest with myself. I'm 100% K.

So they're hearing your story and it's very easy for them to project. Oh, he's still trying to preserve. He's got 10% of a toll hold in his shame. And that's why he's saying that. Yeah. I know. But that's not fair to anyone. I mean, but maybe though, I feel like there was a part of me that was preserving it at

first when I first started experimenting on guys. Like I hooked up with my neighbor. But then after that, I was like, okay, I'm only going to hook up with couples. And it was a guy and a girl. and that will be less, you know. This is like addiction stuff. Yeah, it is. Totally.

Definitely it was. Here's my fake roadblock. Yeah. It won't get worse. Exactly. Comportmentalize it. Oh, that's one other thing I wanted to talk about is San Diego is a real military town. Yeah.

And I'm imagining that kind of compounds the masculine vibe a little bit, like the hypermasculine vibe. 100%. There's a lot of that. It's a bro culture out there. That's where the Navy SEALs are based, right? Yeah. There's a lot of them going around. I think especially when your dad leaves and you don't have like that male

figure in your household. I had a stepdad that was around for a little bit, but to look at that as what masculinity is as a teenager and having that around you and being like, oh, I have to be that. Yeah. It's probably why I was such an asshole when I went to my new school is like trying to emulate these Marines that are walking around my town because I'm like, this is what it means to be a man and to not be fucked with. Yeah. You know? These guys are not getting beat up in the hallway.

No. No, no, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're on Grindr, though. Yeah, they sure are. I see these depicted in movies and it always breaks my heart. I think the maybe saddest thing that can happen to young gay boys is they end up having a secret relationship. And then like the toxic nature of the secrecy ends up being so cruel to one another because they're both hiding.

And that seems to me to be the heartbreakiness part. Like you can't even have the beautiful, fun, loving fling. Did you have any of those situations? 100%. I was super in love with my neighbor. The first guy I'd ever been with was with him for. three years, hiding it for a year from everybody. And it was tearing him down that I had to finally, it was after a little mermaid audition

that I came out to everybody. That's a good time to do it. Great time to do it, right? I started crying and the auditioning. They're like, tell us the secret that you have. And I realized that this secret that was so fun at first and like made it so hot, like, I think it's really sexy to have a secret until it's not, until it just like eats you fucking when it's your identity.

Did he want to be out loud about it? You didn't? Yeah, he did. He did. He was really kind and really considerate and buried. Like, when you're ready, it's whatever. But then I think after year, he was like, dude, come on. You got to come clean.

Yeah. Was the pressure compounded by all these older brothers? I can't imagine that would help. I got to give it to my brothers. They were pretty cool and pretty artsy. Even though they beat me up, there was still like that side of them that didn't give a shit about that. But if I'm being honest, I think a lot of it came from Hollywood and the industry of being like, do not come out.

out because you're only going to play gay. You're only going to be seen as the gay guy. And that was true. It was. And I think it's still a little bit true. I think it's definitely still. I mean, look, we have like Jonathan Bailey now who's everyone's in love with. Rightfully so.

But like there is still resistance met with like can Lucas play a leading guy, you know? Yeah. It's interesting. I know a very, very famous, adored male actor who I know is gay. and I've never heard him say it in public, and he plays a lot of sexy hetero dudes. And I do wonder, like, is he not telling anyone because of that? And then also, if people knew, would that impact?

You never know. Like, I don't know when that time has come. I remember when Anne Hache was in the movie with Harrison Ford, and she had just come out. And people were like, what? How am I going to buy into that? She's in love with Harrison. But forget the age game.

Right. That wasn't our issue. Who cares about that? That's fine. That's normal. That makes sense. But what about her being lesbian? I guess that's the only thing.

Like, I don't love the idea that people can't play other people. I hate it. That's bullshit. The only time I was ever defensive of it is I was like, when straight dudes were getting cast as famous gay characters, I was like, well, y'all, if you're not going to give them the fucking straight roles, then we got it. You cannot take the gay role.

There's going to be none left. That did feel uniquely unfair to me. Yeah. I agree with you on that part. I did feel that way. But with every other scenario, I get really territorial and defensive of people when they come for them. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's bullshit. Let's go through the timeline of starting to work. What age were you? I think I was like 20 or 21 when I did American Bandle. That was good. It was a recurring role on a Netflix show that people liked.

And then I did this kid show with Claudia, actually. Oh. At the same time or the year before that. That's where I met Claudia. Okay. He was one of the best people of all time. Yeah. We love her so much.

And then I think it was a year or two after that. It was 22, 23. I reach out to Sam Levinson because I saw another happy day. It reminded me in my family. I wrote this long letter. He says that he's doing this movie in New Orleans right now. And I like convince a New Orleans agent. I'd lie to them and say I live in New Orleans.

Local hire. Local hire. Save a couple bucks for a purse. I meet him. I lie. I get on a plane. I work with him. And then a year later, he put me in euphoria. So that's where it really all. Because the part of the story I really want to learn about, you were getting accused of queer baiting. Yeah. Why would you be accused of it? Yeah. So they thought you were straight and acting. What did they think? They were like, you're taking gay roles and you're straight. There we go. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And you're like, but I'm. But I love Britney Spears and I'm making out with men. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It was obviously that's an online thing. Yeah.

So when do you become aware of it? Immediately. You're checking your Instagram and your Twitter and you're getting DMs all the time. And what kind of things is what people say? Just like you're a piece of shit. How dare you take, you know? And I'm just like reading them. And at first it's funny.

And I'm like, God, you guys have no idea. And then it starts to really piss you off. I had this like viral tweet moment where someone said like I hate him and I hate his fucking face. and I hate that he takes roles from gay people. And I wrote something, I think I was drunk when I wrote it, but I wrote like, you don't know my alphabet or something like that. And then he's like, well, inform us. And then I just wrote no with a heart.

And people liked it, I guess. And I think that they were like good for him for not feeling like he has to disclaim what he is to some troll on the internet. Again, it's one of these things where you really can't ever win. You can't ever win. Because then the next year you get married to a guy on the Kardashians and then they fucking hate your guts. So it's just like you cannot fucking win.

You go all the way with it. And it's too much. And they hate that. Oh my God. So how much was it affecting you? And how did you decide to then be public about it? And was it motivated by that, like to shut these people up? Maybe there was some defiance in me to be like, I'm going to push back and be so on your fucking face about it.

But then another part of me was in a weird area where I got manic and married a stranger after a couple weeks of knowing them. Wow. What? Okay, so we need to pause here. Yeah, yeah, that was a lot. And again, this might be fun for you because I know when I'm inside of crisis things, I just am convinced everyone knows about it. So one thing is, like, I didn't know about the viral moment with the director. Oh, great.

I love that. I love that. And you didn't know about that. Ryan Hanson, he knows everything. Of course. He's very enough. I'm interviewing him on Wednesday. I'm afraid to talk to him.

I don't want to ruin it. He's like, oh, yeah. He had that, like, really cool thing where he posted. Will you tell the story? Yeah, what happened? I know you're sick of it. I'm just. You know, you're talking about it.

Truly a lot of people have no clue. Until now. I love that you guys don't know. I mean, it's great. Yeah. Basically, it was like the first audition during COVID. It was a Zoom. Everyone turns their cameras off.

It goes quiet. They're like, you ready to go. The director forgot to mute his microphone. So he's like with his wife or somebody. He's like, oh my God, look at this poor actor and this shitty apart. No, I didn't say this tiny apartment. This tiny apartment with a TV and a bed and the sofa in the same room as each other. And then I was just like, oh, my God.

And then I was just like, oh, your mic's still on. Uh-huh. Really quick. Yeah. That's a decision. You've made a choice. You're a real actor because you're like, I can pretend I didn't hear this. Yeah.

And he'll never know. Or maybe he'll know. How could you not say it though? But I think a lot of people would have just pretended it didn't have. Yeah. Yeah. So I love. Okay.

So what did you say exactly? I was like, I know that it's a shitty apartment. But if you get me this job, I'll get a better apartment. Yeah. That's great. And it was true. I love the apartment. It was a cute little studio apartment down the road.

And then I made it as a part of like an improv of the scene. Like I incorporated it. Maybe I probably did it a little too much. Sure. He went back to a little bit. I was like, yeah, you can come back to my tiny apartment later. Like I'd start using it. If you hadn't called him out and then you did the audition and you said tiny apartment in the audition.

He would have, his face would have caught on fire. Yeah. That's the real. That was probably the same. smarter move. Yeah. Okay, so you got the role? No, I didn't get the role.

But there's a happy ending. Okay. The next audition was White Lotus. Come on. Hell yeah. You got rewarded. So if I got that one, I wouldn't have been done White Lotus. And then after a night of fun during White Lotus, a couple months later, I decided to post the video.

Oh, because you would record it? Well, we had to record it on our end. You got to send it. Oh, yeah. We had to be like our cinematographer and our editor and this. And it was like so annoying. Oh, my God. And so I posted it and woke up to 100 calls and like 100,000 requests.

It's very viral. It was really viral. Wow. Ryan Hansen saw it. He knew the whole story. He loved it by the that. That's great. He's like, oh, the way he handled it was so cool.

When that video happened, I was like a champion for actors, right? Or a month. And then the month later, I was a fucking liar. I was the kid who conned a video with a director to get sympathy to get on White Lotus. Oh, that was the narrative they spent. That was the next narrative. Wait, how could you have possibly manipulated the guy into talking about your apartment? Who also released a statement apologizing?

I'm like, how could I pull this out? They're like, that's the greatest marketing move ever. It's insane what people believe versus the real things they refuse to believe. I know. The chasm between what's being. It's crazy. about objective reality and then embraced about fucking conspiracies is mind-blown. It's insane.

It's just like the back and forth of like people loving me and saying I'm a hero to being like this guy is a fucking piece of shit and we hate him. And the ride you're on. Yeah. It hijacks your dopamine system. Even if you're not prone to mania, it can put you there. Oh, yeah. What was happening like emotionally?

I heard you say like it really sucked. I had a moment as an actor. I had some pop. I was on some shit. And then I kind of didn't have that. And then I had this moment as like, I don't know what you even call that. Like a public face. A public face.

And you said like this feels like a 15 months of fame thing, which I don't like. It probably was all so complicated. I would have loved being a hero for a month. Yeah. That would have been great. But even that is like not the right messaging to give somebody. I think that can fuck you up too. Yeah.

It all does. It's not real. None of this is fucking real. Yeah. And it doesn't matter. But I think I was just so narcissistic at that time and like so obsessed of what everyone was saying and so focused on myself. Hard not to.

It's hard not to. Then you're like, oh, Jesus, now I'm just famous for this thing. No one's ever going to take me serious. It's an actor. Well, it's like all the stuff takes precedent of all the hard work that I'd put in for a decade that I was really trying to focus on that. And suddenly, it's just only the headlines that people know you from. So I rewatched a bunch of your scenes on White Lotus today.

You're so fucking great on that, dude. You're so great on it. Thank you. You have like a real, unique, point of view as that character. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Watching Jennifer Coolidge and Murray Bartlett and Molly Shannon on set, that's like the best comedy lesson.

They are unreal, the coolest people ever. And we got so close on that show. These were all living at that four seasons and we were living in the four seasons. During COVID. During COVID, no one lived there but us. Oh, dude. And like the expectation wasn't there yet. We didn't know what it was going to be.

Yeah. It was just like, oh, this fun show, but then it's the biggest show. I just learned so much from them about, I think what I was talking. out with Doug Lyman too actually is like not going in with a plan. If not being like I'm a good student and I'm prepared and look at like all the choices I made last night, that doesn't fucking matter. You're going to find something better on the day that's fresh. The camera loves that.

And so just watching them every take do something different. Uh-huh. As, you know, a 25-year-old green actor was like, oh, you can do that. You're allowed to go outside of this parameter. Try a bunch of shit and it's okay if you eat shit because they won't use it. Yeah. Maybe it will. Well, you were protected by Mike White, who has an impeccable amazing taste.

Yes. Perfect. Yeah. Did you hang with him a bit? Oh, yeah. I love Mike. He's the best. Yeah, he's a very fascinating, dude.

The most fascinating, smart guy I've ever met, I think. Disarming, too. You're like, hold on, that guy's the showrunner? 100%. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. I know. He hasn't figured out.

I was just going to say, I'm like, I want to, like, make a show, be a director or writer, go to fucking Survivor and the Amazing Rer. race and then come back to HBO. Yeah, right. That's so cool. This does whatever the fuck he wants to do. And go like, when do I most want to be in another country? I think summer would be fun.

Dreamy. Okay. What these notes on me. Can I read them? No. Absolutely. Oh, that'd be so scary. No.

I'm trying to think of something, Tara. I don't know. I can tell you this is happening a couple times that you expect people to think that. You expect people to not like you or to have an idea about you. Well, I think I go in. I humiliate myself or make fun of myself before they can beat me to the punch. Yeah, it's your armor. Yeah, I expect it.

But it's not happening over here anyway. I like you. I liked you when I met you in Austin. I have nothing but good feelings about you. Okay, Fargo. Oh. How do you get that role? Walk me through getting that role.

I was in London. I self-tape myself for, I don't know if you experienced this as an actor. where they would have you audition for the guy. They love you, but they're like, he's just not right. But we're going to bring him back for this one and then this one. That was the trajectory of every single euphoria, White Lotus, Bargo, you, every single time. It's like they bring me in for something else and they don't know what to do with me. But they're intrigued.

They're intrigued. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, there's something there. And I think that was another scenario where I was like, I love this show. I want to work with Noah Hawley. I'm just going to keep auditioning and keep sending tapes until he says yes. And so that character was obviously written. You auditioned for that.

Yeah. It's not like he had seen you trying all these other characters and I'm like, oh, let's put him over here. Actually, I think in that one, I think I tried out for like Joe Kiri's role and another guy. And I got close. And then I think he was like, just give him that one. Uh-huh. Yeah. I think it was that situation on that one.

Oh, my God. Are you great in that? Yeah, you're great. Thank you. Fuck. Wait, did you say you, a show on Netflix? Yeah. Oh, I don't remember.

I'm in the London season. I love that. one. The American that gets Pete on. Oh, you got Pete on. Oh. Oh. Oh.

Tell me. No, I can't. I want to spoil it. I don't want to spoil it. It's already been spoiled. He gets peed on? Well, a lot happens. You got shit on as well.

A lot happens in that show. I got obsessed with that show like last year, I think. And every time I would come into the fact check, I was like, okay, so I'm watching you a show on Netflix. And I prefer that she said I'm watching a show on Netflix called you, but she refused to do that. And she would always go, I'm watching you. That happened a lot.

The show on Netflix. Aaron Bergman. I'm back. I'm back. What's her name from Fox News? Lauren Bergman. No, no, no. Laura Ingraham.

Have you seen that clap, right? Is there. You? You? I don't have a show on eight. What? What's he talking about? So stupid.

I'm on a show on Netflix. What? Called you? Called you? It's worth, that's worth the rewis. No, measles. Oh, about measles. We didn't do a show on Measles

We didn't do a show on measles Oh my God That's so funny Yeah That clip Anyway I love that show Okay so you come off Fargo Yeah

I want to know How we get to the marriage On the Kardashians Which is a spectacular thing to be I know I'm sure it's loaded for you My best IMDB credit Honestly

You're gonna be on your deathbed One day as we all will be And I promise you You're gonna be like I'm so glad I got married On the Kardashians Like fuck it man It's one trip on planet earth

I think it's iconic. I think it's so funny. It's so stranger than fiction. If you wrote that down on a piece of paper, like of a script in my life, I would be like, there's no way that's going to happen. Well, what happened? I don't even know. Yeah, so let's just talk about you met Chris.

I met this dude. I met this guy. What were you up mentally when you met? Not great. Okay. What version of not great? Long story short is I was in another relationship that had ended. I was devastated, completely horrible.

It screwed me up so bad. that's so embarrassing. I don't give a shit. I was crying on set and they called my reps and they were like, this kid keeps crying on set. Like, is he okay? On Fargo? No, it was on.

You were showing that. No, it was on the show called Dead Boy Detectives that I was on on on Netflix. Yeah, it's better. Yeah. I was like in a cat prosthetic crying. Okay. Yeah. You could have pointed a lot of fingers at that moment.

I mean, I go on. I love that show, though. It's the best show ever. Best show ever. But still, you're in a cat outfit. Okay. I was the cat king. So I'm crying.

Someone had called my people. My people were like, what is wrong with you? Then I started crying with them, and I was like, no one loves me. I'm going to die alone. This career doesn't matter or nothing. That was like a real existential place of like nothing matters and I just want to be in love. They were like, you need to go somewhere. So they made me check into a place.

They wouldn't give me another audition. Oh, wow. Until I checked on myself. These are very ethical reps. Because they were like, you're depressed. And in this episode, I fired him. One of the biggest mistakes I ever made. You can mend that.

There's chances. Yeah, yeah, that's totally salvageable. I go to this place. They put me on the most insane cocktail medications. They give me my diagnosis that I have borderline personality disorder. How quick does it take them to determine that? A couple weeks. And then I was fighting them on it, still fight them on it.

Yeah. We'll get back to that. Did you listen to our episode on borderline personality? No, I need to listen to that one. It's very interesting. It's incredible. I'm so glad we did it. And we've run into people in real life.

this waitress came up to me and was like, you just can't imagine how much I appreciate that episode. Like I battle this thing. I was like, yeah, dude, it's like everything else. It's just one more thing that someone's like fucking contending with. They really shined a wonderful light on it all. Because if we were just like, ooh, BDP, it's scary. Yeah, I have the same thing.

I resisted it. And I was like, we over pathologize everybody and just like put this thing on them. And that's who you are and you have this albatross around your neck. So I fought with it a lot. And I have a lot of people in my life who would be like, you 100% have it. And I think especially that saw me in that period would be like without a doubt. Yeah. So they put me on these meds was not the right meds. They overmedicated me. And I was really not myself. I was straining my hair, changing all my clothes, just being manic. I really was.

Untethered. Yeah. And I meet Chris. It's like this whirlwind romance. It's moving into speed of light. Every day it is a string quartet band. He's also gorgeous. I didn't know of him until today. Yeah. He's fucking gorgeous. He's got an accent. He's also dialed into the Kardashian world. That's fun, especially if I'm 29. 100%. I'm like, this is very fun.

It was fun. And it was really that feeling that I was searching for so long or what I thought it was of like being lovable and having someone that did these grand gestures of love. So when he proposed really early on, I said, yeah. How quickly? A couple months? Less. Okay, a couple hours?

No. A couple weeks. A couple weeks. Okay, a couple weeks. Is there any voice in your head going like, we know statistically, the two-week engagements generally? Like, was there any rational things poking holes? There was some rationale going on in my brain, but I think I was so wounded from that last relationship and wanted to feel love so bad and wanted to be like, fuck it.

It's bold to be in love. It's brave to be in love. Stop protecting your heart. Just go with it. But I think that there was a part of my head that was like, this is too fast. And there's an illusion that marriage is a turnkey mooring of your. yourself to something. Like there is some idea that it's going to be stability, but it's not at all stability. Not at all. And I've never had any model of a marriage that was shown to me that was

stable in my life. So I had no idea what that was. And if you're manic, I mean, that's just like dopamine. So I get you saying yes. That makes total sense. This guy's a fucking babe. He's got his own thing going. When is it proposed? Well, let's do this marriage on the Kardashian show. So basically, I'd always talked about how I love Shania Twain. Uh-huh. We love us. Too. I mean, obsessed.

I wrote in my journal as a kid, like, still the one is going to be my marriage song. Like, once I beat her on American Idol, like, I would just lie to my journal all the time and, like, say crazy shit. But I love Shania Twain. And so then a couple weeks after the proposal, he's like, we got to get married this weekend. I'm like, what? No. I thought it was going to be like a long proposal. Long engagement.

Yeah. And he's like, just trust me on it. Okay, big surprise. Big surprise. And you're manic. You love surprises. I'm like, let's jump out of an airplane. Let's fucking go.

Throw me out of a moving car. Shania Twain was in Vegas that weekend. So Shania Twain performed at my wedding. No way. Hold on a second. I need more of the pieces. She's performing in Vegas. And you guys are going to go to Vegas.

It was that weekend. She had a show there. And the Kardashians were going to be there attending the show and filming? No. Kim's his best friend. doing his hair and she was our hookup with Shania. So they had planned this whole thing. And I go to Buffalo Bills, which is so weird.

It's where I went every year. It was like an 11, 12 year old, 13 year old. I was my birthday party. Sure. My mom loved to gamble. That was our treat was we take an RV and go to this place. And I walk in and it's just Kim and Chris and Shania Twain. Do you start crying when you see Shia?

I lose my fucking shit. Sobing. Yeah. sobbing. And how did she handle it? Probably pretty well. She was great. Yeah. It was awesome.

Thoughtful. It was a thoughtful. Yeah. It was thoughtful. I think that was a coincidental thing, actually. She just was playing that night at Buffalo Bills. But maybe we'll go with it was thoughtful. Yeah.

We'll go with it was really thought out. Or so. No, but I mean, the fact that they pulled that off is insane. That literally was a dream come true. By the way, speaking as a love addict, like I understand sex and love addiction. I get it. A hundred percent. It's the best high in the world.

Yeah. Yeah. I lost the other stuff and became a dream. addicted to sex and love. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's tasty. It keeps working until it doesn't. Then you're scared.

I keep gassing you guys up, but I really will say that this show was what made me go to Slau. Really? Whoa. Oh my God. That's so nice. Not to keep kissing your ass. Wow.

Wow. That's really amazing. Oh, my Lord. Yeah. I think I'm going to retire. What? Retirement. No.

No, you got to help more people. Exactly. You got to keep talking about this. Why would my instinct be like I should stop this? I did something that helped you. I should stop this. Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare. Okay, so you meet her.

That goes well. You cried. Did she hug you? Yeah, of course. She held me. Kim is amazing. She's great, right? Everyone loves Kim.

So generous, planned this whole thing, paid for everything. took care of my family and were dancing with Usher. It's like a fucking fever dream of like, what is happening? How is this my life? Your mom came? Yeah. So she's having fun and she's got to be nervous for you as well, no?

My whole family and all my friends were very nervous for me and very concerned for me while trying to be there for me. And being like, he's happy. He's in love. I know. Gotta be there for him. He was very depressed three weeks ago. Yeah.

Right after you got out of a facility. Yeah. That's a lot. I think everyone was saying maybe we should just slow the brakes down a little bit. And I was like, fuck you. Yeah. I'm in love. You don't know.

No. You don't know what real love is. Yeah. Now, this is where I can relate to. It's like, on some level I have this story about me as an addict, which is like, I generally didn't put people out. Like, I pride myself on there. I didn't owe a bunch of people money.

I didn't steal for my friends. You saw from. From. I didn't be stealing. But I thought relatively I had created less wreckage than a lot of the addicts. I knew. But what I'm not. wanting to acknowledge is like that moment that I'm putting everyone in all the time.

Which is just like he seems like he's doing really good, but they know I miss my birthday party like a week ago, right? Or I didn't show for Christmas. You underestimate the toll of that. Like, is he good? He's good. Okay. Yeah.

It's a lot. It's a lot. I actually had Claudia say to me at the barbecue we had the other day, like, I was really worried about you for a second. I was really worried we lost you for a minute. Yeah. And just to hear like how concerned all my friends were that loved me and adored me. What I would want for you is for you to hear, oh yeah, you're very loved.

But what I would hear is like, fuck, I'm such a piece of shit. I've made these people worry. Like in the moment that I should be receiving the love, I would be self-flagellating. For the first time in my life, I didn't go to that. I went to like, God, I'm so lucky that I have these people who are my ride or dies who have been through me when I was a shitty friend to them and like went MIA and got married. and didn't invite any of them. Well, it wasn't you're busy. You weren't in charge to be there.

That wasn't really in charge of it. That's true. That's true. Thank you, Monica. But also, what's so sad about this is, like, you're doing on this to feel loved. Yeah. Right? But you are loved.

You have all these people that are there that are, like, hardcore there for you, but you can't see that. Yeah. Well, and it doesn't get you high. The real love doesn't get you high. Exactly. I think it's how I feel about attention. And life with acting and stuff, it's like, I wanted it so bad. And then I got it and I didn't believe anyone.

And I couldn't accept it. I wanted love. I couldn't accept it. It's sad. Yeah. We live all these paradoxes. Like, yeah, we want this thing. We're going to feel a certain way when we get this thing.

We get that thing. It doesn't feel right. We didn't earn it. We don't deserve it. And then I feel worse. And you're like, well, what is the goddamn solution? It's so fucking contradictory. Like, it doesn't make sense.

But you're right. Like, I had it in front of me the whole time. And I was just searching out there for something. thing else. We sabotage so much just as people in the search for this thing, you maybe let go of the real thing that's there. And then there's just like, I don't know, you've always been a wild fucking obnoxious dude and I was too. It's like the highs are high. You're chasing high highs. Yeah. Other people aren't chasing that moment with Shania Twain. 100%. And it's like, you know, you're so like, I like it. I like it fucking hot and heavy. Let's, you know, and I'll pay the place.

But then you get it. And then you're like, what's next? A low, low. comes after a high high. Well, the drug stops working. That's all drugs stop working. You have to come down and then you're withdrawing and then you feel like what am I going to fill it up with next? Yeah. Okay. So, wow, the only thing I didn't get out of this, when do we start filming?

The nuptials are on camera. Yeah, I, um, that was a, hmm. Surprise. Yeah. Okay, okay, right. Okay. I thought I was going to be talking about the engagement on the phone and then. Yeah. And then you were in front of a film crew. Yeah. What was happening in your body while you were left my body? Not there.

See you later. Don't remember what happened. Blacked out and not even from drugs or alcohol. Just wasn't there. I'll wake up when it's less intense. This seems so overwhelming. I remember I wrote my vows and my notes pad on my phone and then I got up there and they all deleted in my pocket. Oh my God. And this is the only memory I have is like a true nightmare. Honestly. Yeah, it is. It's like my nightmare. You'd be like, I've got to wake up from this. Yeah. I got to wake up, wake up, wake up.

And I texted my friend, my one friend, Phoebe, who I write with. And I had her proofread it before I went up. And I said, don't make it obvious, but text me my vowels right now. And I tried to, like, play it cool. Oh, my gosh. That I didn't have my vows. God, it's so crazy. You can't write this.

It's so insane. It's pretty great, too. It's a story. It's so funny. It's such a good chapter in the book of my life. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you wrote all this, and I wrote this for attention.

My premature memoir. No, I really like it. I like that you're like, I prefer when I've read memoirs of people who don't have it all figured out. And it's like more midway through or whatever. We're on the journey. We're not reflecting on all the lessons we've learned, which I like, too. No, I don't care about that. Let's just start with, I'm impressed you finished a memoir.

Fucking do. Hardest thing I've ever done. Yeah. So I've been writing one for four years now. And when you're doing a memoir, it's like, there's just stuff hovering that you know, you're supposed to tell and it's just like, I can't get motivated to tackle this chapter. What were the hardest ones? Obviously, I would imagine you admitting the diagnosis would be really hard.

Yeah, that was really hard. It's like that liability that you're marked with for the rest of your life. And same with the gay shit. It was like, okay, well, then I'm that. And now you're only seen as that. And I'm like, now a gay actor. Now I'm a gay actor with a personality disorder. Holy shit.

Let's not hire him. Like, fuck this kid. But then I was really inspired. by, you know, like Julia Fox and all these other amazing people that are so honest about it and forthcoming. That was the shit that helped me talk about it and not feel so alone about it. And if we can't be honest, we can't be authentic, what do we have? Well, again, back to the deathbed. Yeah.

It's like, dude, are you going to lay there and be like, well, I never was myself. And now it's over. That, to me, sounds like the nightmare of all nightmares. Yeah. I'd way rather been like, no, I was me out loud. And a lot of people didn't like it. but I found the people that do like it. And that's preferred, in my opinion.

Yeah, it was that that really inspired this book. I think the most dishonest part of the book is the title of the book, really, because I didn't really write it for attention. That's the title. I wrote this for attention. Yeah. That's a good title. I love the title.

The idea came the week that I got the divorce. My grandma died and I'm getting confused online as a Nazi because there was a Nazi influencer named Lucas Gage with the C. Oh. Oh, no. The hits are coming fast. And seeing my dad for the first time in five or ten years. So I'm like, fuck, this is the most insane week of my life and all this noise.

You hadn't seen your day and then you had to see him immediately after getting divorced. Yes, and with his mom dying. Oh, because the few. Yeah. Oh. Lucas, this is a lot. And while I'm doing it, I'm checking Twitter to see what a cheater I am or that I'm a Nazi now. Oh, my God.

Holy fuck, what have I done with my life? Yeah. And why do I care? And why am I beating into this like disgusting attention well of like what people that I don't know about me think about. Why am I like this? Yeah. Yeah. That's the question.

Why am I like this? That's why it started. That was the whole. And that was going to be the intro of the book and it ended up being the conclusion of the book by the time I was finished. But that was where it started. So for the people who didn't listen to our BDP episode, explain to us what they told you. Of what borderline personality disorder is? Yeah, yeah.

How did they explain it to you? Not well. If you can feel any resistance that I have about it or any kind of angst when I'm talking about it, it's more about the place that I went to. They were just like, you're splitting, which if you don't know what splitting is. It's like you can't see the gray in anything.

It's like either you're the love of my life or if you fuck me over, I want you dead and I never want to talk to you again. There's a bunch of weird little sayings to describe BDP. They're either at your feet or your neck. Yep. Right? That's one I just heard from the therapy.

therapist recently. That's exactly distilled down as like we have a volatile reactive reactions to emotions, I think. And we genuinely, a lot of times put a lot of codependence and importance on one person, which they call like your favorite person. And if that person is the orbit of your whole entire world. And just all relationships are very unstable and intense. Another thing that I left out of why I went there is I got really angry when I was having. having these crying spells and I punched my hand through a window. Okay. And I had to get stitches.

So that turned into he's suicidal. Yeah, like a 5150 situation. 100%. So it was like self-harm. That was the thing I kept on saying to this facility. You know, they were like out of the nine traits of it, you have all nine. And I'm like, it says I'm suicidal. I don't have that.

And they're like, you do. Oh, yeah, I don't like that. So it's not that I am pissed off about the diagnosis so much. I'm pissed off about the way that they went about it. The delivery system of the diagnosis. Yeah, I don't like they were listening to you. No, I don't feel like that. Same thing I feel about all these places that were supposed to help kids.

It's like you take these vulnerable people, these vulnerable people that are dealing with these intense emotions and stamp them with a label and throw a bunch of drugs at them. And that's it. Yeah, yeah. And then tough love them. I don't like it. Yeah, yeah. But just a counterpoint, I will say it's also common for someone to go into their first AA meeting. there's like 12 steps right and one of them says god i'm like i'm out i'm out i was like okay you could be

out over the one step or you might be able to like go all these other 11 are pretty salient so similarly it's like yeah they fucked that up but maybe they were right about a lot of stuff you know i think a lot of the traits were right the one i've experienced with people who have not self-identified as that to me but i have had a few different friendships where it does seem like they think i am better than i am like supernatural, right? They're looking at me like, I have some kind of answer to something profound.

You find out with your friends that have, that I think have had it. I felt people idolize me. And then I have felt what seemed to me be like these barrage of little tests that keep mounting up.

It's like, well, then are you going to meet me here? There's so much weight to it all. And I just become self-conscious of the fact, these are tests that I'm not passing. And it feels like a test. And then, have been accused by a good friend of like, you're trying to destroy me. And I'm like, what does that even mean? That's not even something someone could do. Like, what do you mean destroy you? Like,

I'm not hurting you. I'm not around your plate. I've called people to say, don't hire. Yeah, like, that's fantastical that I can destroy you just the premise of it. Yeah. Also, I'm not and I love you. Right. So I've had that personal experience. Is it me? No. Did I say that? Sometimes I didn't like that. You did like me a lot more. like me now, but I think it's all within the round. It's all in the normal round. I think that's a good way of putting it, though.

There is a real jackal and hide situation going on with it. Yeah, so what I love in this show has been this great gift to us. Again, I keep bringing this up, but it was so profound. We interviewed a dude a couple weeks ago who's schizophrenic and tried to kill his dad. It's like, we read a lot about schizophrenics or schizophrenic episodes and what happens, but it's never from the person who's experiencing it. And I'm like, I'm so genuinely curious. Yeah.

That's amazing. Yeah. So can you relate to those highs? and lows of thinking someone's really special and then 100%. Yeah. Like there are my world, the most important thing. I'm the most codependent. They're my life.

They're everything to me. Their validation, their acceptance. It's only important if it's coming from them. Your worth is connected to them. My whole entire worth. So much so that I self abandoned myself and my work and everything else and all the important other things in my aspect like family and friends and become a shit brother, a shit son, a shit friend because that is so important.

That's the unifying aspect of all of these things, which is you look at addiction and you go, okay, the addict is escaping their life through this substance. Yeah. The codependent in the system is also escaping their life by focusing on the addict's life. And then this condition is escape. Like it's funny that we got all these labels for these conditions. But it's like we're all trying to fuck off on all this shit we don't want to deal with and we'll find a road to do it.

An obsession. Whereas acting like some are really bad and some are and some are personality disorders and some are this and it's like, no, this thing of humans like, if they find something that will distract them from the shit that drives them nuts, it's going to be an appealing option. No, is there any voice, you're smart. So is there any voice while while that kind of ramp up obsessions happening about the person? Are there any bells going off?

It's like, you're doing it. Now. Now, but not before. No. Because it feels good. It feels good. You get a high from it and I don't party anymore. So that's my high.

Yeah. But I have to catch myself as much as I hated it. I did this thing called dialectical behavioral therapy. Yeah, I've heard about this. I fucking hated it so much. It just feels like elementary weird work of like checking in with your senses and holding ice cubes if you're upset or really taking inventory about what's going on. And it feels like so lame when you're doing it.

But then I do it in life now. So I see the merit in it. I check myself and I'm like, oh, you're idolizing this person. Ope, you're wanting to do that thing where they're your whole world and you're ready to drop everything or in the other end, like if my friend hurts my feelings and I crumble if people don't like me. I crumble if they say anything that's critical. Instead of lashing out and going like, fuck you, I hate you and all this stuff. I'm like, I check myself. I'm doing that thing again. Am I splitting or do they just care about me? Right that you are able to do that. I mean, I still have

moments. But I think the recovery time before it would take me a couple months to realize that I was being crazy. Then I went down to a week. Then I went down to a day. Then I went down to like, I can check myself within like 30 seconds and be like, I'm so sorry. I was doing that thing that I do. I'm in the middle of one of my things here. Yeah. This is not about you. Yeah. Wow. That's amazing growth. Yeah. Please extend me a little patience. Get my arms around this thing. How did you get turned on to the dialectical? That was one of the things that so I feel like I'm really ragging on this place. There was eight hours of therapy every day and a lot of it I hated and a lot of it I resented. And the one that I hated the most was the thing that I love the most now was the DBT groups.

Okay, DBT groups. Yeah, dialectical behavioral therapy group. So how will that work? It's a group meeting. Group meeting. It's similar to AAA, actually. It's similar to all these kind of meetings. And I don't know.

I feel like that's when it really clicked for me where I was like, we have so much in common. We have so much overlap. And as much as I hate this thing and resist it, there's got to be a reason that we have 99% of the same exact story here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is too coincidental. It's a little too coincidental. So that really chilled me out. And doing that group stuff where I could kind of commiserate with the other people that had it, how stupid it was. That helped me. There was a community. This is, I think, the great magic of the program is if you're telling me what's wrong with me and what I need to. do it's just a dead end street yep but if i can just observe someone being honest about what they're going through i can find myself in them that's exactly it's so powerful and it takes away all the defensiveness it's why i like even popping into slaw and popping into a i don't necessarily think

i'm an alcoholic but there's moments where i'm in there where i'm like oh that's like 90% of my life and what it could be if one thing changed you know yeah yeah that affects me way more than going to a place and having them just tell me what I am and give me a bunch of meds. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Me too. I'll regret saying this because you're going to explain it. I'm going to feel stupid for saying it.

But I do feel like a group therapy for BDP has a unique set of risks in the same way that SLA does. And when you first hear about SLA or swall and you're like, hold on a bunch of sex X Xx and get together and help themselves recover. This sounds like a recipe for disaster. Won't everyone just be fucking in the bathroom? Like that is kind of your first thought. Right.

Yeah, yeah. So is there. any risk in that group? God, it would be fun, though. It would be flawed in it. This big daisy chain of he's the savior, who thinks he's the savior, who thinks he's the savior? I'm going to probably get in trouble for saying this, but I don't think it's much different than sitting on set with a bunch of actors.

A lot of them are undiagnosed with personality disorders. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, for sure. I don't know if there's danger in it. I think it would be beneficial. It depends on where you're at, but I think it would be really fun. Yeah, okay. You could say the same thing with AA, like, isn't everyone just going to go get drunk

afterwards. Yeah, that's why I'm admitting that I know it's a flawed question, but also, I also am being honest about the fact that it gives me anxiety that all the people with the same condition. Do you feel that when you go to AA, like a little bit of that anxiety? I go to very few public meetings, but I used to go to a ton. I mostly go to dude's houses, but I'm judgmental still, so I definitely will be looking around the room, but I'll spot two turkeys that I'm like, oh, these two are definitely relapse together. Like, you know, they're like, they're pairing off. Because again, you can bond over and like, and this is kind of, a joke and that feels good it's like being in the back of the classroom and then you're only a

couple sentences between this place this is a joke to let's go get fucked up yeah yeah it's yeah dudes do go out together but in general no it's it's very low percentage that that's happening i would say i want to add one thing on to what you asked about that group yeah i think it would be really good because the person that i was and how much my symptoms were showing at that area in time is completely different than the person that's sitting here in this chair so to put those people in the room that are all on different levels or whatever the fuck you want to call it. I think they could learn a lot from each other, honestly. That makes sense.

Well, and again, that's another magical component of it is you're providing so much service to the other dudes there that are further along in their recovery to be reminded. Oh, yeah, man. I know when I first got my diagnosis is, you know, I was a mad. It is reminded of the chaos in that person's life. And it's so helpful to keep you on the path. Right. It's like when you're in AA and the person gets their one month token and you're like, oh, God, I remember.

Or the most valuable thing is the dude who relapses and comes in and tells us the amount of shame he's got right now, how ugly it was immediately as it always is. You know, that's the most helpful thing, not the dude that's like celebrating 35 years. 100%. Now that you have had that and you have had success with therapy from it, do you feel compelled when you meet a new dude to be like, hey, so you should. Oh, I have this or not? Yeah, I do, actually. And a lot of times they're like, what are you talking about? They're hearing that for the first time, right?

Yeah, yeah, what that is. And they're like, I've never noticed anything. And then in my head, I'm like, maybe I don't have it anymore. Maybe I'm cured. Maybe I'm wrong. But I think as much as I hate the labels of things, I think it's helpful for other people, the labels in contextualizing what it is and having them look it up and Google, like, what the fuck does he mean?

He does this splitting thing sometimes and to be aware of it. You didn't define splitting enough for me. Did I not? Yeah, I got it. It's the either idolizing or. Yeah, the two extreme. It's kind of like what you said about at your feet or at your neck. They go hand in hand with each other.

But I think it can be helpful. Yeah, I mean, I can't imagine ever. I never did meet a girl that I didn't immediately say I'm an addict. So I'm going to do weird shit. I get up in a journal and I meditate, you know, and I'm going to go to meetings. It's who you are. Yeah, there's no hiding this. Right.

So it's not going to work with someone who doesn't accept it and know it. Yeah. You just know right away. Like, I probably should tap out now because. Exactly. But the shame level is much higher for you. I want to recognize. I mean, I want to be honest about that.

It's like in the many things that people can admit to. Like, addiction's fine now. If you're in the closet of being an addict, that's like a very 70s thing. Totally. Catch up. SLA is still trickier. That's tricky for people. And then to say BDP, these are still things that are like, you're the vanguard of that.

You're brave to do that. Oh, my God. We did it at the same exact time. Whoa. Sorry, I say that again. Mine was a doorburn and it just won't. I don't know how to turn that chirp off. It's on Do Not Disturb.

Yeah. Look at you. Is that your shirt? I don't know. Monica's going on a date tonight. Oh, my God. She's getting a special shirt. You are?

For the day. Isn't that fun? I love that. Where's the shirt from? Why is out? Oh, hot. Yeah. It's a cute shirt.

Where are you going on the day? Where is he taking? Little domes. Okay, that's a good first day. It's good. It's good. Chill. Dark.

I was there yesterday. On another day? No, just with my friend, Jess. And I'm not going to say that. Don't say it. Okay. Yeah, because that feels like, well, this is special then. Yeah.

You're right here 12 hours ago. Yeah. You're going to be back tomorrow. Unless the waitress from the night before is your same. I mean, they also, I do go there a lot. So I do worry. Like, they're like, Monica. And he's like, oh, how often do you come here?

I'm like, oh. That's good, though. I guess. I don't know. I don't want to think about it. That's your insecurity is talking. I don't want to think about it. And no matter what, it's going to be bad.

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I don't know why it's going to be like, Monica, you're our favorite customer ever. Oh, fuck. It's over. Yeah. You're always so generous and we love having you.

Oh, fuck. This is you're going to hang on you. I'm so embarrassing. So anyways, I sincerely want to say, thank you, dude. I love when people go first. And they hear you say those things you said to me. I hope they're said to you, you deserve it. I think it's much bolder for you to come out and do that.

Thanks, man. Okay, let's talk about voicemails for Isabel. Oh, yeah. Well, I'm here. This is your new project. I saw it. You did? What did you think?

I loved it. I'm a rom-com sucker. Yeah. I normally don't watch the movie or read the book or do anything on purpose so that there's like an objective, you know, whatever for cutting. But it popped up on my Netflix and I was like. Oh, shit. And you really need to know because I don't want you to be on my neck over this. I won't.

I watch people shit. Yeah. He does. I went last night to watch it. I told my family. I can't hang the night. I have research you do. I'm watching this movie.

I go to my Netflix preview content. It was not. there. Oh shit. Maybe it was like an expired length. Crazy blessing because she never watches it. I always watch it. In this case I couldn't. Reverse back. Whoa. So you tell him. I loved it. I thought it was so, well, I don't know how much premise can get told. The premise we can tell. I watched the trail. Okay. You're allowed. But yeah, this girl, Zoe Deutsch, who I love. We just love her. Love her. She's the best. She has a sister who has passed and she keeps calling the sister's

phone and leaving her these kind of confessional. voice memos. And then the number gets reassigned to, thank God, a gorgeous dude. Gorgeous. I obviously looked him up as soon as I was like, who is this guy? Did he make you horny? Of course. Yeah. Oh, yes. He's something else. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he's hot. He's hot. But it's so sweet. I cried multiple times and I'm pretty dead inside. Yeah. So it did get me. Zoe's so good. All of you guys are so good in it. Everyone's so natural. And it's a rom-com. I know. We're bringing them back. We're bringing them back.

And it makes me so happy. It makes me so happy. I feel the same way. I cried when I read it on the plane. And I was like, oh, shit, this one's good. Yeah. This one's good. It is.

You're so funny in it. You played a dick. Listen, I've played a dick and a dumbass. That's all I get. It's all they see me as. I've got an anchor here in Los Angeles. So you're doing just fine. All the same thing.

Typecasting is still casting. But it's a funny. It's a funny character. Yeah, it's a funny. different kind of version of that character, but it's so good. And Nick Offerman's hilarious in it. I couldn't stop laughing all day on set with him. Yeah, I love that movie.

I think it's going to be a big hit. You know what I like about it a lot, too, is the main character is fucked up and unlikable at certain moments. Like, I miss rom-coms, like, how to lose a guy in 10 days and never been kissed where they're, like, a little deceitful and they have a secret. Yeah. Maybe they're doing some light stalking. Exactly. That was very popular. That was up the ball.

It was cool. It was cool. My best friend's wedding. Exactly. It's all a loose. By the way, she's kind of horrible in that movie. Yeah, she is. She's so good.

But you love her. And that's Zoe's ability to make an unlikable character the best. She's like Kristen in that way. They can play like very unlikable. She's like, I just killed your mom. Yeah. And you're like, you're so cute. I'm like, oh my God.

I understand. I wish I got to watch. I bet you look so cute. Yeah. They have that similar quality. But you just watch her forever. Yeah. She's so good.

I love her. Watch it, guys. Watch it. For Isabelle, on Netflix, I just saw this note, Rob wrote 340 hard out. I fucked that off. I'm so sorry. I hope you're not in big, big trouble. Four o'clock, I'm good.

You're good? I have accent training for prison break. Oh, exciting. We're redoing prison break. You are. Yeah. I start on Monday. You do.

Yeah. And are you a prisoner? I'm not. I'm outside of the prison. Oh, okay. And what's your accent? West Virginia. Oh, boy.

Yeah. Pretty. Appalachy Hillbilly. Yeah. Very demon copperhead. Yeah. I'm rereading that right now. That's a good idea.

Yeah. I'm watching Buck Wild right now on MTV. It's like the Jersey Shore of West Virginia. Oh my God. It's so good. I would love that. Did they go mud bogging? Oh, every day.

Yeah. It's insane. I would do well in West Virginia. We did the pilot there. I never fell hotter in my life. Yeah. Like a five in L.A., 10 in West Virginia.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What is that on? What is Brisbane? It's going to be in Hulu. Oh, it is. Yeah. That's going to be a little. That would be fun.

Well, listen, dude, you're going to have a wonderful ride. That means a lot coming for me. You're very honest and you're very likable. You're working on yourself. I'm working on myself. Thank you guys for what you do. I'm not kidding. I listen to three podcasts or one of three.

Oh, well, thank you. Keep doing what you're done. If you ever shave it down to one, I hope we make the cut. You will make the cut. I promise. All right. Well, I adore you. Thank you.

I adore you guys. Just a quick reminder that as part of our summer break, here's a rerun of one of our favorite fact checks. Pretty good stuff. Pretty good station. Really great station. Hey, y'all. Really great station.

I wish I could find that actual clip. By the way, you can't because it's going to sound nothing like it and then it's going to be sad. They played it so frequently on this Atlanta radio station that they had it, you know, recorded. It wasn't like someone called and said, I mean, someone did originally call and say. that. Yeah. They knew it was great. Hey y'all, really great station. I wonder um, station. I wonder if Newman would remember the radio station. Should we try to cold call them and say? Oh, sure. Yeah, this is high

risk. Let's see. What if it was B98.5? Hello? Hi, you're on the radio if that's okay. Is that okay? Oh, boy. Okay. I won't say where you work. You know, I'm obsessed with, with when you and I were riding around in your Suzuki, Azuzu, your trooper. Azuzu Trooper, Red, in Georgia. And you listened to the same radio. Well, maybe you listen to a lot of radio stations. But as you know, I'm obsessed still with that one gal. They played the clip of her all time and say, hey, y'all, really great station.

Hey, y'all. You have a really great station. Oh, so you remember it as station. I remember it in station. This is already much different. I guess what we're really looking for is, do you remember what station you listen to down there? That's a tough question.

Star 94, B98.5. Can you hear Monica? Yell it. What would you say? 98.5. Star 94. I want to say it was country. 955 the beat.

I want to say it was country, wasn't it? I'm not sure that it was. Oh. Oh, I bet it was... 96.1? Ooh, 96.1. That sounds country. She says that sounds country.

It sounds like it's on the country. You got to be accents. Everybody was, hey, y'all. Power 96.1? Power 96.1? Does that sound familiar? Because we're going to do our best. We're going to deploy all resources to see if we can get the clip of that woman saying really

great station. We can find out whether it was really great station or a really great station. It's an advertisement for the station that played over and over, and that's why I kept done. Like, it finally just sunk into my mind. Yeah. And you helped get me there. Like, we were in your Azuzu Trooper, and it came on, and you said along with her, which let me know it wasn't the first time you heard it, and then you loved it.

And then now I've loved it for 30 years. I had to do a little research. Where were we in Georgia? Were we in Athens, or were we up in Northeast Georgia? No, when you and Aaron lived in the mobile home. Okay, so we're at the trailer. Yeah. You call it a trailer.

I called it a mobile home. Was it Macon? No, Macon was close, though. Macon County was the next county over, right? Bacon, no. Hall, there was White County, Hall County. Hall, yeah. You guys were really close to that little German town, weren't you?

Helen. Yes, we were 20 miles from Helen. We were just like right on the edge of the hills, you know, drive into the hills to get to Helen. And you're right on the hooch, right? The hoochie. Well, the mobile home was not on a hooch. There was a crick that ran through it.

Okay. And you remember that you and I got into the hooch. You had dropped something, your wallet or a watch. What did you lose in the hooch? And we had to get it. A zippo lighter. Oh, you had to get it. That's what it was, a zippo lighter.

Had to be gotten. Yeah, the hoochie was screaming when you jumped in there. All right, I love you. Thanks for helping. If you think you nailed down the radio station, let me know so I can do something. Yeah, I'll shoot you. And if I'm saying 961, I'm wrong. I'm wrong because that was going to be Athens.

That would have been Athens. Yeah. This one was probably a country station. Yeah. I'll do some research. Okay. I love you. All right.

Talk to you soon. Talk to you later. Bye-bye. Yeah. Yeah. This is what I was afraid of. Dead end kind of. No, is his recollection of it is much different than mine.

I want to play you a song. A song? Way down yonder on a chita hoochie. Hotter than a hoochie-coochie. Okay, well, I guess I don't have to play it. Is that what you're about to play? I can sing along the whole. I know all the work.

AJ baby, Alan Jackson. Hey, y'all. Really great station. Hey y'all, really great station. And this is Alan Jackson with his hit, Way Down Yonder. Well, way down yonder on the chat of Hoochie, it gets hotter than a Hootchoochoochoochooch. We laid rubber on the Georgia Asheville. Got a little crazy, but we never got caught.

Down by the river on a Friday night, Pyramidic cans in the Pam Moonlight, talking about cars and dreaming about women, Never had a plan Just living for a minute You do know Oh way down yonder on the chat And how much that muddy water

meant to me Hey y'all, really great station I learned who I was A lot about living And a little about love Yeah, whew! Wow Okay

That was You really do know all the words I'm impressed Oh yes How do you know all the words You're not even from Georgia When those two moved from Detroit down to fucking rural Georgia.

I would go down there and they became obsessed with country. And then that's where all the Hank senior and junior and Whalen all started as those two moving to the, you know, the sticks. My home. Yeah, and being right next to the hooch. Right, but I'm just so surprised you know all the lyrics. I know all the lyrics of all the country songs of that era, probably 96, 7. You probably didn't drive around enough with me because we were newly friends.

But when you came over to the house that we were staying at in Georgia, when Kristen was working on bad moms, we were next to the hooch. We crossed it every time we drove into anywhere. Yeah, it's everywhere. Yeah. But I would play it for the girls every time we left the house because we'd be passing the hooch. And I took Lincoln down to the hooch. And she, this is a famous story. She bit me on my shoulder and went through my shirt and my skin.

Wait. Yeah, is the only time she ever assaulted me. Wait, really? Yeah. Because of the hooch, the water she drank it? We were on the hooch and there were these cement steps down and probably to get into a canoe or something. And she was little, if you remember. Very.

She was like under two years old. She was probably. Delta was three months. Yeah. So she was probably two years and one month. Yeah. And I was letting her. walk around the stabs and she's a daredevil so she wanted to get in the water but it was freezing cold

and the current of the hooch at that time of year was swift yeah and so i went and grabbed her right as she was about to step into the water and picked her up and she was so pissed i had intervened she bit my shoulder yeah she clamped down with her two new little brand new teeth lincoln really great station really great bite oh my god wow yeah so i can't I came home and I was like really ticked off. I told Kristen like, she bit through my sh- You were mad at her? Well, it's evil.

You don't like bite a human being. Oh, and down yonder on the chat of hoochum. It gets hotter. Never brought this up. Do you know what my fifth grade school was? Had a hoochie high? Chattahoochee Elementary. Same thing.

Chattahoochee Elementary. That's great. On the hooch? Did you call it the hooch? No, I called it Chaddoochee Elementary. But I mean the river. Oh, I mean, yeah, people called it. Did you ever go down to the hooch and drink?

Drink pyramid of cans? Listen, listen to me. What? Chattahoochee River is everywhere. I know. It's like four minutes down the street from my parents' house. Yeah, so why don't you go down there and put a pyramid of cans up in the pale moon life? Because no one does that.

Did you lay rubber on a Georgia asphalt? I mean, I went tubing and Helen. You did? A lot. Well, like four times. Wow. Yeah. That's exciting.

Guess what I didn't almost drown. Oh. Is it an area of grievance? Yeah. Then I got to let that go. Yeah, because I guess it's evidence that it wasn't my fault. Like, I know how to traverse a tube. I've done it.

Yeah, sure. But the Austin River was much. They got me. Yeah, that was the San Marcos River. Way down yonder on the San Marcos River. Tipped in my tube and my top got loose. Oh. Formula One.

driver's coming over behind me. Oh, that was about me. Yeah. Yeah. San Marcos River. Yeah. Yeah, my top did get me. Got a little crazy, but you didn't get caught.

I think I did get caught, unfortunately. But fortunately for the catchers. Anywho. You're disappointed for sure that I said it was fine. And rightly so. had changed the waterfall we went over. Used to be a gentle little cement paved thing. They tore it out and made natural with big rocks

and that got a little crazy. So you're disappointed to me about that rightly. I'm not actually. But my response was on the, I was right there. You always want to get to the response. Well, I want you to have felt like I was willing to die for you. I was willing to kill you and die for you. That's something, isn't it?

Listen, you. Suck. Didn't mean for that to happen. Oh my God. That was, that's, no. So I have no. I went over first with my child. Right.

But you are more equipped. But holding my child. So she. She's more equipped than me. She was a little roughed up like you were. But if you recall, like I was dealing with her and I had to put her on the rock and go, and then I said it turned my attention because I knew you were coming over and I was like nervous. But you didn't come in.

You didn't have to. So that I could respond. Can you imagine if I had died that day? Well, I mean, I can if you'd like. I can sit here and try to imagine it. But that's to me like saying, what if you got hit over the head with a falling bit of debris from a building while we were in Austin? It's like, I can't see you dying in that situation at all. I mean, we were all right there.

I was like waiting to leap in, but you got yourself out of the water really quick. But I don't know how you could have because I was watching you come over. I watch you tip over, pop right up, and go right to the rock. Yeah, that's what happened. But had you tipped over and like you weren't popping up, I would have been jumping in and grabbing you. I know, but by then I could have filled my lungs with water. That's too fast.

Yeah, that's just too fast. I could have swallowed a lot of water. And I would have pulled you out on the thing and then started chest compressions. After I fixed your top for you, I couldn't do chest compressions. No, ethically, I couldn't have been like the armchair anonymous. I couldn't touch your boobs to save your life. I mean, I just have to... What do you mean?

Well, I'd have to have Molly cover your boobs and then start chest compressions. There's no time for that. Oh my God, she said... Just with her hands. She has to get across the river. Molly, she's drowning. Come over here.

I need to start chest compressions, but I can't press on her boobs. That's the time you can see my boobs. And press on them? Yeah. Okay. But press on them? Lee press-ons?

If it's to save my life, I assume everyone would be okay with that. I guess that's how the people in your pyramid squad felt that they had to catch you by the pussy to save your life. They did have to. And I'm grateful. Yeah, we thanked them for it. That's such an old reference. I bet people, a lot of people listen don't even know that. Yeah. Tell people. Well, just when you were explaining that you were a high flyer and that you'd get caught and you even showed me some pictures and I said, clearly some people must have accidentally caught you by the vagina and you said, yes. Well, and that's not the phrasing you used. Well, it escalated from there to catch them by the pussy. Yeah. Yeah, which is kind of a callback. Because, no, it was, again, way more perverse than this.

You were talking about boys on the squad. Sure. Because we had boys on our squad. It was a co-ed squad. Teen boys. Teen boys. Catching high flyers by the pussy. It seems crazy.

Yeah. So much of that porous Walker, our friend artist. Well, I commissioned. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. A beautiful piece of art of a young Monica being caught by the pussy.

It was an interactive piece of art because you pulled down. Yes. You pulled me down. That's going to be worth like $10 million one day. Because Forrest Walker is a genius. You know what? I don't. Oh, don't even say that.

Wow. Don't say that. No, no, I do. I do. I have all this art that I moved to the house. Okay. So it's all in the garage. But that worries me.

Me too. I really went to the ends of the earth to get that. Listen to me. No, I have a grievance. What am I supposed to do? It should be hanging on your wall proudly. I don't have space. Especially when your brother and your dad visit.

They got to see that. Ding, ding, ding, chattahooch. Yeah. Georgia, go dogs. Georgia go dogs. Roll tide. How dare you stop. Well, you guys got the last lap.

You know, I almost wrote that in one of my posts. And then I thought that is such bad luck. I cannot do that. You almost wrote roll tide? As because it's our job. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then I thought, what am I doing? Can I say this?

It's such bad luck that I've been saying roll tide the whole time and they went undefeated. That's how bad of luck it was to say roll tide. We don't know what's going to have. What if we have a national championship we're about to go? But I've been saying roll tied for the last nine games. What if it was to get us to this point just to get. This is a complicated superstition. Just to get defeated.

You do taunt them along the ride. But then when they get to the championship, no more roll tide. Exactly. My brother and dad are going to the game here in Los Angeles. Yes. They'll be here Sunday night, Monday night for the game and leave Tuesday. Quick trip. Quick trip.

The game's the ninth. 4.30 p.m. 4.30. We'll be recording. Yes, we will. No, you'll be out in time for the watch the game. Anyway, I'm really excited for them. Me too.

I hope they have a lot of fun. I had an incredibly fine moment as a dad a few days. few days ago. Ding, ding, ding, dads. Lincoln came up to me and said, hey, I really want to go to that NASCAR race at the Coliseum again this year. Can we go?

Can we go? You better believe we'll go. She asked me to take her to a car race, Monica. That's exciting. Oh! So we're going to go. Fun. Yeah.

That's great. The clash in the Coliseum. Wow. This is the one in Rome? No, our Coliseum. Wobby, Wabi, Wabi. They don't do them NASCAR races in Rome yet. They're doing every other thing.

We should have some host a race in the attic. That's how small the Coliseum is. That reminded me of when I was home. My dad reminded me. I was speaking of children. There's 150 of them just piled out of my Roadmaster station wagon. Why'd you have to drive that? Too many kids for her car.

There's a party bus. Oh, it's a play date. Don't ignore me when she has friends over. She ignores everyone when she got friends over. Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare. Okay, I don't remember how this came up, but my dad was recalling me learning how to ride a bike. Oh, boy. And I have some memories of this, too, but I think I've blocked a lot out, and now I know why.

Okay. Because there's trauma around it. Not shocked. Let's hear it. Because per yuge, I was way too old. Mm-hmm. You'd waited too late. Learning.

Uh-huh. How to ride a bike. I was seven. Okay. Yeah. And so my dad wanted to teach me or help me or whatever. He was like, let's, you know, we're going to do it in the driveway. And I said no.

Sure. Absolutely not. I will not be seen. Yeah. The whole reason I'm needing to ride a bike is because everyone in the same This was in Memphis. We had just moved to Memphis. And everyone in the neighborhood rode bikes.

That's like how you hung out. Yes. And I didn't know how. So I was like, I got to learn how. And he's okay. And then we go in the driveway and I'm like, I'm not doing that. And then also I refuse to wear a helmet apparently. Well, that's natural.

You don't want to look like a dork. Right. He then, which this part was sad, he was like, I probably put it on too tight. I was like, no, I don't think, maybe, but also I think I just did. You would have let him know if it was too tight. Yeah, I would have screamed to me. Yes, yeah. So I took it upon myself to learn how to ride a bike in the garage.

Closed garage. They can't be done. In the closed garage. Okay, they can't be done. No, the cars were removed. And then my dad said, he said, he was just written into wall up. He said, he came home from work. And he said, I said, where's Monica?

And mom said, she's out there riding. No. And I went out there and you were just going like. And a circle in the garage. She's going in little circles in the garage. That's great. That would have made you a pretty advanced writer right out of the gates. He was very impressed when he was retelling this story.

He was like, I couldn't believe it. Yeah. And so he didn't teach you how you just went in the garage and figured out. He just kept trying. Oh my God. In circles. Oh, my God. So insolent.

No. That is the power of needing to fit in. Oh, sure. Yes. I will get in the garage by yourself. That's impossible. Yeah, you can't learn to ride a bike in a garage because you're learning. Turning.

Yeah, that's the hardest part. Yeah. There's no straightaways. And then you hopped out in the neighborhood and peddle. your little bike around? And I rode all the time with my friends. No helmet. Oh, fun. Did you have any? I'm sure I did have to wear a helmet. It wasn't a thing when I was a kid. It was zero. No one had a helmet. While we were talking about this, Neil was there too listening to this. And he said, and then I just took Neil out like on to some parking lot. And then he just immediately knew how to do it. Wow. And I said, that's us. The Padmans. That's indicative of who we are. Like, I can't really do it.

But I'm going to just like, by sheer will. Yes. Call your way into doing it. Something happen. Uh-huh. And he has a ton of talent. Yeah. Just a natural.

But he doesn't care. Yeah, he wouldn't have gone in the garage, gone in circles. No, he wouldn't have. Anyway, I thought that was funny. That's very funny. Well, that's it. That's everything. That's not.

That's the whole thing. It's not. Now, listen, I'm glad to report that you, Your expensive rain boots made it through to a second season. I know. Sometimes I worry when you get these things like how many wears are you going to get out of them. They'll probably be obsolete next year because fashion moves like a speeding bullet. And here you are in the same ones.

They look great. And I'm glad to see that they're here. Two things. One, these are not that expensive. Okay. Two. This was from two. I got these before London.

Oh my gosh. Okay. Great. So we're on season three of these. So I'm good at wearing my clothes. Those are great. They're orange. Speaking of, I'm wearing my sweater that Rob gave me mixed messages.

It's beautiful. And you're sitting next to the painting that Rob commissioned, which I'm staring at too. So Rob's really getting a lot of mileage out of his presence. It is. Okay. This is for Anna Kendrick. Oh, wonderful. Yeah.

Great episode. Really honored that she felt comfortable and that she loves our show so much. Me too. It's really sweet. It's funny because we recorded the intro yesterday. Remember I said I felt like I should reach out? And then I was like, why didn't I reach out? And then I was like, well, because no one's, no one's going to read Instagram.

Uh-huh. So then last night, I actually reached out. You did. And she responded. Okay. So what? I haven't talked to her yet, but I'm going to. Wait, what?

I thought you said you reached out. Yeah, basically saying, I want to chat with you. Oh, got it. Well, I did want to say that she reached out to me after. She reached out actually before the interview, which was awesome, saying she was excited and that I know it had taken a while for us to be able to get this up. Because it was years ago that I originally reached out and that we were going to do this. And then it took a while for her to be able to really. Yeah, yeah.

So she reached out about that. And then after she was really sweet and said that, you know, she hopes it was a good. episode and that there was enough. And then she said, and I do think it's important that I say this, she said that she had been thinking about the interview a lot and particularly the portion where we were talking about gaslighting. And she wanted to make clear that she was sorry if anything she said minimized my experience and that she is used to lending a lot of compassion towards the addict and sometimes that comes at the expense of the person who is harmed she said like including herself um and then she said which i thought was really important

like it was important to me to hear she she basically said i commend you for sticking up for yourself even if it was going to make other people uncomfortable right and That meant a lot that she said that because that is hard to do. Yeah. Because gas hiding is tricky, right? Like you already wonder, that's built into it. A wondering of what's real and what's not and how big of a deal is this. So then when that gets questioned, it's like repeating that cycle of a wait, but it, oh, maybe it's not.

Or, you know, it's just doing that all over again. Uh-huh. Yeah. Anyway, so I thought it was very generous and lovely of her to say that. No, she's incredibly lovely. Also, a post script, she went in afterwards and met Kristen and it was. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

And how was it? Because we talked about, you know, that Kristen was jealous. It was good. Kristen got to say to her face, I'm just jealous of how talented you are. It was very sweet. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. Okay.

She was right about Maine. It does have the oldest population. percentage-wise in the United States. Really? Yes. Higher than Florida. Then Florida. Then, do you want to guess the third?

Oldest state? Mm-hmm. Arizona? No, but good guess. West Virginia. Oh, interesting. Old people. A lot of this, these numbers might be affected by like, what state do young people move out of the most?

Yeah. For sure. This is age 65 or older. And this was as of 2020. You have the full list there? Oh, yeah. Maine was number one. Uh-huh.

Number three is West Virginia. Uh-huh. Number two? Florida. Oh, Florida is number two. Yeah. Oh, okay, great. So number four would what we'd be guessing for.

Wyoming. No. Vermont. Yeah, I wouldn't have guessed that. Yeah, none of these are that guessable. Arizona's not until 12. Oh, my God. I would expect of that much higher.

Yeah, me too. Do you want to know what 50 is? Yes. Utah. Sure. That's obvious. Really? Because Mormons have so many kids.

So there's got to be probably per capita, more young kids per capita in Utah than any other state. That's interesting. Okay. Also, Georgia is 47. That's young. Mm-hmm. Let's find Michigan. Michigan.

Michigan is 14. It's 14 oldest. Okay. Pretty old. That's good. Yeah, it's pretty old. It's 18. Old.

You think it's good? I don't know. Anytime there's a list and there's a number one, you've got to assume number one's the best. Okay, that's fair. Old is the best. Okay. Maine is the best and then Utah's the worst in this specific case.

Yeah, in this shootout. Yeah. I'd like to compare mean ages of life expectancy state to state because I bet there's some wild variation even within the country. Rob looked at that up, please. Like I think in Mississippi life expectancy is, is much lower than, say, New York. I got it.

You got it? Okay. Hit us with something. This is in 2019. List of U.S. states and territories by life expectancies. So let's hit me with the life expectancy of New York. New York is 81.4 years. That feels old.

Now hit me with Mississippi. Mississippi. 74.9. Big difference. Seven year difference. Can you kind of scroll through and see what the lowest is? 51. is West Virginia.

74.8. Oh my God. And it's the third oldest. And they're not living very long. That's weird. That is weird. What's number one life expectancy? Number one, Hawaii, 82.3.

Oh, wow. Then California. Oh. Congratulations, everybody. Congratulations. Well done. I'm going to guess, Georgia. Okay.

79.4. 77.9. Number 3. Number 39. That's not that good. That's not that good. That good, yummy southern deep fried cooking. True.

Or how about this? Here's a positive spin. Okay. They're in a bigger rush to meet Jesus. Oh. That makes sense too. Okay. It always confuses me.

Truly, I'm not saying this in a condescending way. I feel like if I was a full-blown Christian, I believe lock, stock, and barrel that I was going to go to heaven and meet Jesus. Like, I'd be in a hurry to get there. That's the part I don't really. No, because you still have family. It's like there's still people on earth that you're still a person. No, no kids or family.

Their family is like, all right. I'm a person with no kids or family and I still like living. But you're not a Christian. I know, but I like living on earth. Like, even if I thought, oh, I'll get to go. Why would you? If there's a much better place, it's kind of like, it's like, you know that Emily Burger's next to your house, okay?

And then you have some old grown chuck in your fridge and you choose to make a burger when you could go next door to Emily. Heaven's way better. I'll prove comparison. I don't see. This is crazy. Listen, Kevin's better than the US of A. But you're going to be there for eternity.

So you still want to live your life here with people you care. Also, it doesn't require kids and a spouse to have loving relationships that you want to keep up and enjoy. No, I wasn't trying to demean anyone without. Well, I'm saying, I understand I'm wanting to stick around and see your kids, like hit milestones. Yeah, but I want to stick around just to enjoy life. But me and Aaron were Christians, and I believe all in, I'd be like, buddy, let's get up there and ride dirt bikes in heaven. Like, let's go to the better place. That'd be me.

If I knew there was a better place, I want to be in the better place all the time. I moved to California because I thought it was a better place to do the things I went to. Like, I'll go to wherever is better. I ain't trying to sit somewhere that's less good. Well, you don't get to go if you kill yourself. I know, but eating fried chicken all day every day isn't killing yourself technically, according to Jesus or smoking cigarettes. That won't keep you out of heaven.

No, sure. So I could, like, drink hard, smoke cigarettes, eat KFC and then go do wheelies in heaven. It's probably just the doubt. Well, that's the thing. That's what makes me think there must be some doubt. Yeah. I always like to bring up religion to keep things moving. Yeah, sure.

To not alienate the. I always feel bad, by the way. So, you know, quite often Christians comment, I'll anger them. One in particular, they were, some of the more hardcore Christians were really upset the way Yuval was talking about Christianity and Jesus and the way I guess was with him, which I didn't find all that. But that goes to show I'm out of touch with what might offend you, you know. I guess my assumption is there's no reason for you to be offended. I don't believe in the thing. Like, I'm not offended that you don't believe like I do, that there's nothing.

But that's not how it works because I guess I'm talking about someone they love deeply when I talk about Jesus. So that needs to be considered, I guess. But at any rate, I was a little shocked by that. Aside from being shocked, I don't like it if Christians' feelings were hurt when I'm talking about my point of views. That's not my goal. I don't want that at all. It's never my intention. I want Christians to listen to this show.

Yeah, of course. Yeah. And you don't want to make people feel bad. And alienated, yeah. Exactly. Okay. Do lie detector tests work? No.

Pretty much no. I mean, there's lots of findings. I don't think they've been used in court in a long time. Used to be like they'd always, they gave everyone a polygraph. And it was like very damning. Well, before DNA. Mm-hmm. Because now we just have this greater thing, you know.

And they were like in all the police station. and they always wanted to hook you up to one and you had to have your lawyer saying, no, no, no. Yeah. Okay, I'm going to read a little bit about this. Okay. The accuracy of polygraph testing has long been controversial. An underlying problem is theoretical. There is no evidence that any pattern of physiological reactions is unique to deception.

An honest person may be nervous when answering truthfully and a dishonest person may be non-anxious. I think what it detects is nervousness. Yeah. So then your question is, does nervousness? Well, really what it detects is a change. Yes. Because it's based on this baseline that they gather from you, but whatever.

A particular problem is that polygraph research has not separated placebo-like effects. The subject's belief in the efficacy of the procedure from the actual relationship between deception and their physiological responses. One reason that polygraph tests may appear to be accurate is that subjects who believe that the test works and that they can be detected may can. confess or will be very anxious when questioned. If this view is correct, the lie detector might be better called a fear detector. Some confusion... That's what I meant to say. Fear detector. Makes sense. Some confusion about polygraph tests accuracy arises because they are used for different purposes and for each context somewhat different theory and research is applicable. Thus, for example, virtually no research assesses the type of test and procedure used to screen

individuals for jobs and security clearances. Most research has focused on specific incident testing. The cumulative research evidence suggests that CQTs detect deception better than chance, but with significant error rates, both of misclassifying innocent subjects, false positives, and failing to detect guilty individuals false negatives. I have a friend in the FBI that was telling me, boy, was it him or was it a friend in the CIA? Maybe the CIA, you know, I think these enormous amounts of money

to pay off their informants. And I was told that they have to do a polygraph every time they return from having given the supposed money. Because there's really no way to track whether these agents are handing over the full amount. Yes. Yeah. And so apparently they were readily in use.

Is that a right way to say? Interesting. Recently when I was talking to him about this. So I think they might use them at the FBI internally. There's also things you can do. There's like pills you. I'm sure propanol. Exactly.

The things you can take. Yeah. I always convinced myself. I kind of would like to take one because I think I could, I could. Pass it. Yeah, I think I could. Yeah. I think I could.

I think I might have a polygraph tonight. Oh, wow. You know who would be bad at it? The robot. He'd be perfect. No. He'd be bad. Like, he wouldn't be able to tell lies.

I don't have any vitals. There's nothing for you to monitor for me Unless you hooked up to my corridor Where I have to create a falsehood Which I can do It's a bit of my programming If it's required to save a human life I'll give you an example

Great Did you see a little girl run and hide in here No No I did not see one That's a lie I told to get the killers off her scent. What? You understand my scenario.

A young girl has come and hid in my robot closet. And then the bad maness, if you see the little girl. And I have, but I tell them that I haven't. And I have a corridor in my programming. That allows me to save the human life. Oh, my God. Yeah. Okay.

The robot is dealing with a lot. more than I knew. Well, the robot has to be programmed for every situation. So if someone's hiding from bad guys, he has to be able to lie. Oh, my God. So the robot is... Moving throughout the world. ...to save human life.

That's my number one mission to help you and save you with your chores. Also to go to parties. When no one's looking, I attend the parties. I have to make sure the real boys are okay. Oh, he's trying to help the real boys. Yeah, the real boys. Who's monitoring you, robot? That's a very good question.

Oh, no, you don't even know. Let me sing while I figure out the answer. My owner's name is Samantha. I like to help her put on her makeup. Wait, that's a song? Wait, what? My owner's name is Samantha. She purchased me from the robot depot.

She often takes long naps, which is when I go out looking for some parties. Wait. He said, hold on. He's a personal robot to Samantha. Did he say he was going to sing a song? He didn't know the answer yet, so he was going to sing a song in the meantime. Right, but then he didn't. Then he started talking about Samantha.

Your question was, who owns you? Yeah. And it took me a minute to think of Samantha. So I said, let me think about that. I'm going to sing a song in the meantime. And then I thought of it. Wait, but you didn't sing a song. He didn't sing a song to think about it.

Well, I'm always singing the song. Oh, that's the song. That's just the way you talk, robot. Yes, I do it in a song. Humans found that it's less scary if I say. You have a little. a different voice really? No. I always sing in song

because it's disarming for the very scared humans. They're afraid of us robots. Aw. But we're just real boys trying to come out. But you're not real boys. You're not a real boy. I wish I had a crying noise. Because you hurt my robot feeling.

Oh, no, I don't want to. I think I am a real boy. Okay. And Samantha's my mom who bought me. Oh, I feel stuck, you know. How about Samantha owning the robot? Well, I feel stuck because I don't, I guess if the robot wants to believe he's a real boy,

like I'll let him, but I'm lying to him. But remember when Johnny Five was alive? Johnny Five was somehow alive. Okay, so he was a boy. Well, we do believe, there are certain robots. we do believe our real boys. Darrell was another film about an Android robot boy. And he was a real boy.

Oh. That's kind of the theme of these robot movies. They turn into real boys. Okay. I didn't know that about the robot. I thought he wants so badly to be a real boy, but he's, you know, he knows he's not. It's like Pinocchio. I thought.

I thought. Yeah, like Pinocchio. Would you tell Pinocchio he's not a real boy? Don't do that. Don't make me bad. I'm only asking. I'm only asking, I'm asking if you would tell Pinocchio, you're not a real boy. I mean, I think I'd be conflicted because I don't want him to go through life, wanting to be something he's not.

But just like the robot knows how to lie to save someone. You could show him the same. Also, the robot would lie for you. This is so pot calling the kettle black. Oh, tell me how. You would let someone have a fake. You want people to be who they are. You wouldn't you don't like going along with people's lies.

I don't, but I'd be willing to go along with the robots. I'm talking about other people. No, other people no, but the robot, yes. Okay. Well, I'm just saying. I don't actually know how helpful it is to the robot. We can acknowledge that there's a wide spectrum of when that would be acceptable and not. Like the little boy who thought he was Batman for the day.

Oh, duh. Right? So there is a time, there's a time to pretend that. the little boy's Batman. And there's another, there's a time when a guy, some dickheads telling you that he is a wonderful person. You're like,

well, I'm not going to co-sign on that. Yeah. Yeah. Because one is like a potentially damaging outcome and one, it's kind of utilitarian and one has a beautiful outcome. But I care about the robot and I care about his growth and his life. Like I care about his robot life.

What you want is sweet too. You want the robot to love himself. Even if he's not a real boy. He's so lovable. Yes, that's great. He doesn't have to be a real boy. That too is very defendable. I prefer robots over real boys.

Yeah, sure. And you tell him that. Yeah. Yeah, I like you more as a robot boy. I'm sorry I hurt your feelings, robot. It's okay. I forgive you. Hey, I have a question.

Do you have, do you? I guess I'm also confused about your feelings. You ask a lot of questions. It's a quality I admire and you. You're so perfect and wonderful. Stop, Roba. I'd like to be your best friend till the end. Oh.

We could live in New Hampshire. Oh, okay. They have very liberal policies there. Yeah, I think we'd do great there. Or we could move to. you, duh, because I'm going to live to a thousand years old. Yes, and it's a very young population. He's so sweet the robot.

He's a very nice real boy. Oh, oh. Okay. Okay. All right. I don't know how to do this. Okay. Well, I'm happy to have hung out with the robot today.

Me too. And we should be talking more about. Anna, but at the same time... We talked a lot in the episode. Exactly. And I almost... It doesn't feel right to talk about it. It's so interesting.

Oh, why? It was just so wonderful. I would feel weird talking out of school about it. Like, something about it was so intimate that it would feel weird to be talking out of us. I don't know. That's my reservation about it. Yeah.

Well... Well, I love you. I love you. Love that episode. Yeah. Yeah. Incredible.