Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Mom's Car: Liz Plank

Episode Date: October 20, 2026

On this week’s episode of Mom’s Car we welcome Liz Plank (journalist, author of For the Love of Men, and host of Boy Problems). Liz, Dax, and Best Friend Aaron Weakley talk through the stakes of soft launching a boyfriend, dating men who come with renovation projects, whether having a boyfriend is actually embarrassing, the difference between being picky and expecting perfection, why raising kids should be a team sport, begging your partner to finally fart in front of you, and Dax competing with Aaron’s girlfriend over who gets to take care of him.Check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds: https://www.allstate.com/ See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome to Mom's Car. I'm Dach Shepard. I'm BFAW. And today we have a very good friend of ours, Liz Plank. Of course, Liz, you know, what are you going to say about her? She's a genius. She's adorable. Liz is a Canadian journalist, an author, a media personality. She has an incredible book called For the Love of Men, from toxic to a more mindful masculinity and a podcast that's also great called Boy Problems. And most importantly, she's just the funest person to date. with she's so, so smart, and I love hashing out ideas with her. Please enjoy Liz Plank. This episode is brought to you by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. Not checking the dress code at the new restaurant. Showing up in sandals and getting turned away at the door. No fun at all. Yeah, checking first is always a good move. So check Allstate first for an auto quote. It could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary subject to terms, conditions, and availability, all state North American insurance company and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. We are supported by Uber Eats. Boom,

boom, boom. In need of groceries, Uber Eats has you covered. From last minute ingredients to weekly essentials, get groceries delivered in as little as 25 minutes with Uber Eats. Get groceries delivered with Uber Eats. Terms apply. See app for details. Now let's get into the show. And you're pretty tall. I'm pretty tall. I'm dating. I'm dating. He's six, seven. Okay. No. I swear.

Hold on, hold on, hold on. Your boyfriend's six, seven? Yes. What a stuff. Oh, my God. Do you feel itsy-bitsy when you're with there? Yeah. And I never have felt that way.

But he just walks into trees. Like, he'll just, we'll be at night. I'll be like, what's that? Like, I think it's a crumb, but it's like a branch. And he's like, oh, I just like that tree. Like, ceiling fans. Airplane buzzed. Airplane.

He can't. He can't do anything. So you're bringing me immediately to one of my first conversation topics, which is, I noticed the other day you had a post and it included him. It did. I know. And so I just had this whole 10-minute, like, not even in regards of interviewing you, but I was like, I didn't date in an era where you have a boyfriend. You've got to decide when you're going to first post.

Well, you know the difference between a soft launch and a hard launch. And I knew you would know all this stuff because I missed it all and I want to know everything about this. Like, this must be a stressful part of early dating. It is you're tapping into something so real because we had a first. Fight. Like, I, about it, do you have to go get the food? I do. I know. But Aaron gets the food and I deliver the food. Okay. Yeah, we split the duties. Okay. Yeah. I'll catch you up when I get. Okay. I'll see you later. You guys have a great time. I did a soft launch. Okay.

Which was just a story and his face was hidden. He's in the background, the BG. He's in the, it's like a full body mirror. We were like a goodwill. And there was a full body. So I took a photo. And he took the photo. So the phone was hiding his face. And so I did that, but I didn't say much, and it was very vague. But before you motor through, that decision probably came with some fault, right? It did. It did. Because I've been burnt. Burnt. Burnt.

Burnt. I'm burnt. And I don't always have the best judgment. Sure. And so. That's what I like about you. Thanks. Noron.

People with good judgment can get fucking bent. Who cares? I think their lives are pretty boring. So boring. It has to be boring to always make the right to. decision. So I soft, soft launched, and then we had a, we had a fight. A couple of days later about, you know, something unrelated. And I was, like, upset about something. And so I was crying and I stormed the room. I was like, I can't believe I soft launch you. I'm an idiot. And I walked

out. Okay. So it's a real thing in a relationship. So you got in a fight and you're like, you regretted soft launching him. Because you're nervous, like, we're going to break up. We're going to break up. And I've done this where I've introduced them to my family. I mean, this is a very canon event for people dating right now. Yeah. Because dating is so up and down. Explain that term, you just said, canon event.

A canon event is you tell all your friends about someone you're really excited about. Oh, there's a bike. Okay. And you know. You know. Oh, he's stopping for you. This is confusing.

This is, oh, shit. He's coming to get that Thai breakfast. By the way, this is not breakfast. It's drunken noodles. Oh, okay. I mean, someone at a late night. And so, you introduce all, you tell everybody about them.

I mean, I've done that. with you guys like you know you brought me on a date remember when you brought me on a date yeah yeah yeah to a date and it did not work out so so by the way and then that led to earmark that but there's this fear that I'm going to introduce this guy and I'm going to look like an idiot and so not only now embarrassment embarrassment right exactly but it's funny because when I cried and I left the room and I said that he was like I didn't understand how much of a big deal that was and like I'm sorry and then we had a whole conversation about that Because was it as big of a deal in his mind?

No. No, exactly. Like, I'm assuming his business isn't tied in with his social media presence. Well, I didn't even tag him. I'm afraid to, like, even, I don't know. But you have a different relationship with it, I'm assuming, because it's part of your business. It is, but I've never posted a guy. I've really, I've never done this.

So the stages are you'll definitely go on a double date with Kristen and I, but you won't put it on Instagram. But you know what's funny? Can I tell you the truth? And this is going to sound like I'm just trying to blow smoke up your ass, but it's the truth. Yeah. I have spent time with you and Kristen, and you are, like, relationship goals for me. And, like, particularly, like, family goals. I think you have such a tremendous, silly and tender way to love each other.

And I told my boyfriend at the time, I was like, this is what I've always, like, wanted. Like, someone who, yes, I'm attracted to and, like, we have amazing chemistry and all that stuff. but like a silly, goofy time. Do you want to play while you're on planet Earth? Like, that's the declaration. Like, would you like to play? And now we have kids and it's like, oh, fuck, now I got two more people to play with.

Yes, that's right. Because I am only here to play. 100. This is all for fun. Why aren't we not having fun? We were literally talking about this last night. That's so funny you say that. Yeah, it's so fun to find someone who has the same goal,

which is like that this is all for fun. Like, we're all on a ride. We're all trying to stay busy until we're dead. I mean, literally, that's what's happening. Yeah, have the most amount of fun and laughs and giggles. It's so exciting when you realize you haven't been having fun for even weeks at a time. And you're like, what am I doing? Like, I just wasted all those weeks.

Like, it's not. We're going to be dead in 30 seconds. Yeah, it's not this heavy. Yeah, do you ever think back at times where you were trying to make someone the one, you know, or again, you were like, or even with a friendship or not even just with a romantic connection, And where you're like, oh, this wasn't fun. And, like, I was trying to make it into something it's not. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

By the way, all love and respect, some people are very serious, and that's what they enjoy. That's true. And, yeah, that's great. And they can consternate it or whatever the word is. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so back to the, you've never shared a lover on social media. No.

And then you have this little fight. And then how do we get from that moment to what I saw yesterday, which is like full-blown face? No, there's no face. There's not? That's why it's a soft launch. Oh. And not tagged. And hard launch is when...

Now I want to, like... Now I want his handle. I would not want his handle other than now I know no one can have it. No one can have it. Yeah. I mean, maybe... I don't think he has to earn it, but I... Okay.

I want to know, like, because again, I've been burnt. When would you go full face with a tag? Are you engaged at that point? Really? Engaged. Yeah. Oh. So what did you and Ruthie do?

Because Aaron, I think. Aaron's got an interesting complexity to it, which is he's also divorced, right? Right. I don't know. Doesn't that? I feel like that adds to it. Like, if you're blessed in pictures you and Ruthie before you're married and your ex-wife's like, I don't know. I don't know.

Sure. Yeah. Well, yeah, that did happen. Your ex-wife was. So she could look at Instagram and see that her ex-husband's now dating a woman that he's posting pictures of. Like, I don't have to consider that. Right. If I were single.

Right. Well, now I would, but you know what I'm saying. Right, right, right. It's more complex. It did bring a complexity to it because, yeah, kids, we have three kids. Right. And they were, of course, younger six years ago, five years ago. And yeah, I did blast.

Well, my hunch did you want quick. Not only did I blast off right away, Ruthie blasted off right away, too. Oh, yeah, yeah. We were very excited. They're happy. Yeah, yeah. So there's a quick, hard, fast launch.

What's the opposite of your slow launch? Or you're calling it a soft launch. Soft, soft launch. So hard launch. Hard launch is face, like tagging, you know. But so what's the conversation you have with your ex-wife about hard launching or like, you know, hard launching with a new. Blat about Blastoff. I took it right to the level of, I said, I'm having my new girlfriend of two weeks.

And I haven't met in person. No, we did me in person. I take that back. A couple months. I said she's coming over and it was COVID. She was flying into town from California. Yeah. So I'm like, she's coming to stay with me.

And my thought was, cool, my kids get to meet someone fun. Like, I didn't take it as serious as maybe it was taken on the other end. Sure. Sure. Okay. So I had to look at it from her perspective. Yeah. Yeah, she had only known a dude for a.

Yeah. And I'm like, well, like an asshole. I'm like, well, it's different with guys. Oh, okay. I don't. Why? That's fair. Yeah. That's fair.

I think a new guy is more threatening to children than a new woman. Historically, statistically. Yeah. Pedophilia-wise. Yeah. The risk. Yeah. Sure.

His daughters. Sure. If we're just looking at odds-wise, do we think a boyfriend is going to abuse a child versus a girlfriend? I got, unfortunately, it's probably 12 to 1. Oh, yeah, probably more. Sure. Yeah. It's totally right.

Yeah. So that's interesting. Yeah, yeah. That's real. Yes. That there needs almost to be more of a vetting. Another unfair thing for women. Right.

Yeah, it's another. Right. It's hard. Because I dated someone who was divorced with two girls, and it was a big deal about, you know, meeting them, and I never ended up meeting them. You know, we dated for like almost two years because it was so, for them to meet a new woman, actually, because they're girls.

I think the gender even of the kids also, you know, can matter. Yeah, if he had two boys, it might have been different for some reason. Yes. That they would be harder. You know, it's every. romantic comedy from the 90s, like, you know, the evil sort of stepmom, right? Like, that the girls feel in competition with or, you know. Or we'll start modeling their dress and behavior after another woman.

You're the mom. That's threatening. That's true. I think in that situation, I would be like, you don't really have a say in whether or not I have someone visit me for a week. You clearly have a say over whether the children are there. So I would have said, like, yeah, if you don't want the kids to be around during that week, I understand.

But also I am entitled to meet someone and move on and have this week with somebody. Yeah, I think that's the right. Yeah, that is the right move. I just, I'm prone to jump in the gun. I would say if Aaron's most dangerous character defects is impatience at the very top of it. Yeah, I'm afraid it's not going to happen if it doesn't happen now. Yeah. And like even purchases in life and stuff.

Like, anytime he says he's going to go look at a motorcycle, I'm like, oh, in 20 minutes he's going to call me while he's. riding the moment. I don't think you've ever gone and looked at something and not left with it. I haven't. I've never been more confused in my entire existence. Oh my God, you were picking something else up? I was and I'm like, no, it says I'm delivering a little thing.

She's like, I didn't order anything. It takes me five minutes to realize, no, I'm there to pick that up. Oh. Now, how are other people, because you're so dialed into young people and what's that? I know, I mean, that's serious. You are. When I read your post, I'm like, I'm educated every time I read one of your posts on what's going on.

How are other people that are dating feeling about this? Like, when, is there a standard when you post when you don't post? Because it is embarrassing. I would imagine if I, and then I'll go even further. It adds yet another stressful layer, which is like, when do you say I love you? When are you introducing someone as a girlfriend or a boyfriend? And now on top of it, it's like, why aren't I ever in any of your photos? Like, you have all your friends in it.

You have that girl. You're not even dating her. And so when I imagine myself in the situation, and this might be. anecdotal and specific to me, but I've always felt like the person wanted to declare stuff sooner. Oh, okay. Then you wanted to. Yeah, I just am very much like, let's, you know, let's not love addict out and go nuts. And then there's nothing left in three months. So I don't know. I think I would be really, I think I would fucking quit social media if I was dating. I don't want to be hurting someone's

feelings because they're not in a photo. Yeah. Yeah. So what standard? Are there standards? It's so funny you say that because it's making me realize why it have been so reluctant to do it is that I, when I first moved to the U.S., I moved with a guy. That's why I live here. I'm Canadian. So when I said I've never posted anybody, I would post him because it was early Instagram when like, no, it was just your friends. It wasn't like a public display and people weren't as much like, I don't know.

We weren't as wrapped up in each other's like digital lives. It was like real life was more important. And now I think there's this weird reversal. But I would. You're living for the digital life. Yes. It's really, anyway. Insidious.

Yeah, very, very pernicious and weird. But basically, I would post photos of him and us and, like, just, you know, casually without thinking much about it. Yeah. Which, like, oh, my God, I wish we could go back to those days. Just when you would post on Instagram and, like, not think a million times about what people would say that you've done wrong, left out, like, whatever. Yeah. And so I would post him, and he would complain. I mean, this was a very, very abusive, toxic and abusive relationship.

He ended up, he just got into a program. He took him like 12 years, but while we were together, there was no recognition of his drinking problem. But anyway, there were just a lot of issues in the relationship, very controlling. But it came out in that way where he would be saying, I post photos where his neck was too small. Like, he didn't look big enough. Okay. And I would be like, okay, I'll take it down. That's kind of on you.

Which I'd be like, okay. But then he would insist that I would post too much about, work. I post about work more than I was posting about him. So he was very threatened by your career aspirations. Well, there we go. You nailed it. And so, and that was the gist of all, a lot of other toxic things that happened. Yeah. But it was this source of sort of stress. And so I didn't. Yeah. After that, I was like, I don't want to. And then when we broke up, I will say I was a little, maybe embarrassed is the word. I think, and this is a bold claim. Yeah. Tell me if I'm wrong. This is the place for bold claims.

Okay, perfect. Very few people watch. Okay. So, your preference is very low. Has you ever killed somebody? This is a place. So I think when you're dating a man, you're either going to become his wife or his ex-girlfriend, right? And I think that it tends to be more embarrassing to be someone's ex-girlfriend than it is to be someone's ex-boyfriend.

Like, I think that women are embarrassed by a larger person. portion of people that they've dated than like men where like men would be like oh yeah I dated her and like even things didn't work out yeah i think societally historically there's been that you can't keep a man that's a very well-worn's you know cliche i don't hear a lot of you can't keep a woman's no there's no there's no get me a wife apple pie there's a catch me a husband apple pie so yeah i do think there's this like implicit can you keep a man yeah and that it's your fault and then you couple in probably as well the expectations that you should only be dating for marriage. Yeah.

And then if you're having casual things, that also makes you a slot. So I do think there's a lot in the soup. Yeah. In our circle, that's bragging right. So dude who's had like 20 hot girlfriends in the last year and a half, you're like, well, this guy's got some secret I need to learn. Yes. And it increases his, like, value in a way.

Like, women do that. Well, you'll be like, oh, he dated this woman. So he must be, you know. And so. I've been riding on that for years. I got Sasha Crosset in sixth grade and it's like, it's just one led to another. I still talk about the people he's dating. Did he, was it like, did it give him street friend?

For sure. Of course. Dude, I really felt it in high school because in ninth and tenth grade, I was persona non grata. I was like so tall and skinny, huge nose, brand new high school out of a different school district, nothing going on. And then randomly this girl, Jody Pitsoz, rest in peace, she liked me and she was kind of the number one gal in our grade. And then after that, the door was wide open to me. Yes, that'll do it. And because he had been, honestly, you know, abusive, I was like, oh, my God, I don't want people to know.

I hate that people know that I've dated him, even not even publicly, just like within the grapevine. Because then a woman might start dating him and think he's great because, you know, she thinks. You co-signed on him. Yeah, it's like, you've co-signed him. And then there's this fear of like, well, then, you know, that's why I think women particularly might be afraid to co-sign. Also, okay, there's another thing. Yeah. If you tag him and all these women are now like,

oh my God, this great gun, you know, all these photos of him bringing you macha and working out with you. And then you break up, then all these women are going to now try and date him. And like, you've sort of, again, you've made him hotter by being with him. And then if you break up, like, now you're doing.

Okay, but now here's another fun interesting. Like, yeah, if you break up, why do you give a fuck who dates him? You're able to do that? You don't want to just, You don't want to make them harder? I'm praying any ex-girlfriend of mine immediately finds love. Really?

Absolutely. I'm feeling sad, probably bad that we broke up. Right. When Bree and I broke up, I was more concerned about her finding love than me ever finding love. Really? Oh, God, yes. I'm like, man, we were together for nine years. Why do you think that that is?

Because I love the person or I cared about the person. And, you know, often that person wanted to be in a more... I'm sorry. Oh, man. This is a mess. This is a big time mass. Pick up another order. There's...

Jesus, fucking Christ. Where did it go? I do my best stuff in front of Liz. I was telling Aaron that's how I farted in front of the first time we met. I felt so honored. That was like one of the greatest names. You should have. Well, it's like when your partner farts in front of you, I've been banging my boyfriend to fart.

Every time I hear a little thing, I'm like, do you fart? He's like, no. And I'm like, when are you going to do it? You would not have to bag Aaron or. I hope you guys heard today. Yeah, we will. Stay tuned for more mom's car. We are supported by Allstate.

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So check Allstate first for an auto quote. It could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary, subject to terms, conditions, and availability, Allstate North American Insurance Company and affiliates Northbrook, Illinois. He picks up, I delivered. Right. And as you saw, I didn't go so well when I delivered.

I promise I've had better luck. What has been like the craziest way someone has reacted? Oh, you know, I never see anybody. I mean, those ladies in that store definitely knew who I was. So they're double confused because I'm trying to give them food. They didn't order. I'm supposed to be picking something up. And they know it's me.

And so they know something kinky's going, weird is going on. So none of us can figure out what's happening. Yeah, because they're a little disorienting. But that's an anomaly. Generally, because I deliver, it's almost always leave a door. Right. Okay, so back to standard. What are other people feeling like and what are younger people doing?

How long are they waiting? I saw a post a TikTok a couple days ago, and this woman basically was arguing to never post your boyfriend. Okay. She was like, never post him. He's going to get clout. Girls are going to like him more. It's just like they're only downsides.

But I think that men are on better terms with their exes than women are in terms with their exes. Like, I will say, I think a lot of my exes would say, like, she's a great girl. And like, she's great. And I kind of have other feedback. You know, like, about how things. I know. And it's because I've also, I have a bad picker. I think women in general like projects more than maybe men do when they're dating.

Like, I think a man will meet a woman be like, it's either like a hell yes or a hell no, and they'll kind of know right away. And women will kind of keep going and try and find or fix certain things. Right. Or have the fantasy that they will turn them into the person they wanted. What do you got here? Yeah, I don't even know what I'm taking. Okay, that's that little bag I picked up.

Yeah, what are your thoughts? You've had Gen Z, guests. I try my hardest to resist saying they're this or that. Because I think what you're really seeing is like, it'd be easy to let a very small number of people that are very active on social media inform what's going on. And then I'm around in Nashville and I'm looking at young people. I'm like, they don't reflect at all what I'm seeing.

This was actually another topic I wanted to talk about with you. I feel like you're perfect to ask about. This is where I am over. I can tell I'm overreacting. But with that said, you know, there's these headlines now, you know, is it embarrassing to have a, boyfriend. There seems to be like this very to me concerning movement that is masquerading as feminism that is like to be empowered is to not want a man. Yeah. And that scares the fuck out of me.

Like I really think like, oh, when the last of us are dying out of extinction, we try to trace back. How did this happen? Yeah. I feel like we're at this point where we're so focused on the political polarization, but I think there's massive gender polarization. right now and I do find it concerning and even me saying it's concerning to me like when I'm talking with Monica she's angry about that that I think like oh so every woman's got to get married and have kids I'm like no I'm not saying that but I am saying we were designed to live a certain way which is not alone yeah we're not solitary animals yeah and this just to me looks like more and more solitary living and and I I know it scares me so yeah do you think this is a real thing yeah I mean I've been single for

a really long time and I wasn't happy single and I didn't relate to some of the content online which is like you don't need a man and invest in cats and female friendships like as much as that's wonderful like I really wanted a relationship and so when we talked about that it did make me like reflect on that ideal and and whether it really was an ideal that I was seeking and if that was a good ideal for us as a society we're often only looking at one side of the Which is a hell, but it's like, does a woman need a man? Yes. Does a man need a woman?

Yes. Like, the bottom line is men benefits so greatly from having a female they're committed to. Like, it brings out much better sides of them. They can learn so many things from women. And this is a discourse out there, right? Like, that the ROI for mandating women is high. The why? The ROI.

Oh, return on investment. You know, men will have more social relationships. They'll be healthier. They'll live long. longer. Like, there's ultimate benefits. And for women, the ROI is not as good. Like, that women don't, actually, like, the healthiest, you know, sort of demographic of people are unmarried women. They actually will live longer. They'll have more time for their social relationships. They'll spend less time working and doing domestic work. For me anyways, both are true. Yes, I want a

relationship. Yes, I want to be with a partner. I don't want to be alone scrolling on my fucking phone on Netflix. And I'm allergic to cats anyways. I can't have cats. And I also, and I also, I also don't want to be with a guy who's going to make my life shit. Right? Like this first guy I'm talking about that like ruins my life and is controlling and jealous. And so I think what's happening is what's always happened throughout history is that like women are weeding out the good guys. Like they are like, I don't want to be with a guy who's not going to improve my life. And unfortunately, I think that is very unsettling because I'm not sure that has ever really happened in our lifetime.

Correct. And we know we can chart out where that goes quite pretty easily. We can model that out pretty easily where that goes. Sure. That goes to the death of our, which might be fine. Well, if you think about it, that's what women have always done. Because women didn't reproduce with all men. They reproduced with a small subset of them, right?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I think it's 60 to whatever, right? Yeah, yeah. And so. Yeah, very few people had access. Yeah, because women are choosy. And that's why we got better as a species. And, like, that's why we evolved in the way that we evolved.

Again, I would like to think that what's happening right now, if we don't go in the dark version of it, which is like men are shit and like men are, don't even, you know, be in a relationship with any guy, unless that's what you want to do and that's fine. Yeah. Like, I think if it's actually the middle of that, you know, and both those things being true that sort of leads us to, I mean, in my opinion, like ultimate well-being, you know, that like men are improving to get chosen, right? Like, you want to get chosen. So you're going to brush your hair. you're going to shower, you're going to have a nice apartment and get a bed sheet and two pillows. Yeah. True.

You know? And then, but like, don't be mad at women because we're choosy because, like, that's how we all improve and that's how we all got here, you know? But when you said that a couple years ago, like, it did make me connect with this hardwired, yeah, like, it's like oxygen, you know? Like connection and building something with someone, it's a very old biological need and sort of design. And then you just get into, and you can almost not have this conversation, because any time you bring it up, it's somehow baby shaming. But if you want to have a child, there's, you know, overwhelming data on what's the best scenario for a child to grow up. And it is to, it's not to say a single mom or dad can't do a great job, they can't. But the overwhelming, you know, data says that it's best done with two people.

And that experience, I've had them all. That's the thing. I've had all the great experiences. I've gotten to be famous. I've gotten to have money. I've gotten to meet all the famous people. I've traveled the world. None of them even compares to this experience of getting to give everything I've acquired to other human beings, which are our children.

That experience, for me, if I had to pick on my death bet, what I missed, I would definitely miss being famous. miss being successful, miss being anything. I would hold on to that would be the last thing I would ever let go of. It's such a special experience. And it's so suspiciously satisfying that what it tells me is like, oh, yeah, it's me doing the thing I was designed to do, which is reproduce. Like all animals, take us out of it. All animals have singular jobs.

It's like to stay alive to reproduce. So it's just, it's kind of weird how much biology we have that kicks in once you start having your offspring. and it's like, it becomes quite obvious, like, oh, yeah, minimally this is what I was designed to do. It's my only purpose here, you know. So then how do we get there with this other trend? And maybe that's how it is when I got to accept it. Like, if the ROI for women is lower, then I understand.

Yeah. Then don't do it. And then, but if we're measuring the quality of your life by whether you live point one or two years less or more versus the experience while you were here. And I can only speak for observing my wife. She feels the exact same way as I do about this child thing. She would give up a million frozens to have this experience. So that's got to somehow make its way into the ROI, you know, the evaluation of the return on the investor.

For sure. And here's the thing, right? You said studies are just generally two people is better than one, right? Like two people raising a child is going to be a better experience. We should be raised by 12 people. Well, that's what I was going to say. In the paleoethic era, it was 12 people. Yes.

And that's what we should do. And that's what we should do. Yes. You know, because I get up early, I go and write in coffee shops. And I'll often notice, it's often moms, okay, that are in copy. It's writers and moms. Okay. And they'll be there with their toddler.

They're tired. And the toddler will be walking around and everyone's sort of entertaining the kid, okay, if you're in a good situation. And it'll be like, hey, hey. And the mom is just tired. I want her to have her phone time. I want her to get a break. And I'm like, oh, this is what it used to be like. Yes.

Like, she didn't take care of the human being from morning to night for the next right 10 years while being having a job while doing whatever and so I think that we have to make motherhood more collective a thousand percent and then women will want to do it and that's why the ROI sucks for women because we stopped doing it as a team but again I agree with a thousand percent and we're charting it so okay we started as it took you needed at least 40 other people around you just to survive then the agriculture revolution happened and now you really only needed your extended family to subsist. Right.

So now we were down to 10 people. Yeah. And then the industrial revolution happened. And now we're in single family houses and you only need the immediate family. And now the tech revolution now only, it only takes one person to survive. And so that trajectory has not been good for us. I agree. I whole hardly agree.

So it's like, I don't know how we go back to 12 people raising the kid, but I know going even further down to less people. Yeah. Agreed. We need to have been designed differently for that to feel good. I totally agree. She's standing outside, by the way. Oh, great.

She got it in time for lunch. She kind of knew. I just seemed new. Yeah. Do we have more stuff? We do, right? We got one more. Okay, great.

But no, I love where we arrived. Oh, I just love this because it's like, this never happens. But again, now, then I zoom out. Yeah. And I also think I might be completely over-inflating the issue. I mean, A, we do see that the birth rate is dropping dramatically. Yeah. But what's interesting about that and a bit misleading, which was comforting.

And that is true for all Western, democratized, industrial. Restrial nations that the birth rate falls. Again, you don't need a bunch of family members to work the farms. So naturally, it's going to fall. This huge spike we're seeing in the decline is really driven by an enormous drop in the team pregnancy rate, which is fantastic. That's really what we're seeing. We don't really know have we leveled out or we still declining just, you know,

once people are in their 20s. And I'm praying that that's the case, right? Well, unfortunately, I'm here to tell you. It just hit this week, I think. there's going to be a majority of young women, not teenagers, like 20s and 30s, who will be now child-free. It'll be the majority of young women. Okay. And again, and that's...

In 2030, it's term. So that's scary, again, for me, right out of the... Just on face value. But then you've got to consider it. Well, we also have a new technology in the mix, which is you can freeze. So you can delay that. And are we only seeing that? So we'll just see an explosion in our 30s we never saw that will offset the decline in our 20s, maybe.

I mean, I know that's an expensive endeavor. Yeah. Currently. Yeah, people can't afford it. Yes. I mean, it's right. Like, even AOC. But more and more women are professional.

You know, the college. You know all the male studies. It's abysmal. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They're not in college. You know, women are in college. They are making more money. They are getting increasingly able to freeze their eggs and do these things.

Yes, that's true. And here's like my thing, like, Dax, like, I wanted kids like so badly. Yes. And last year, especially I was 38, you know, froze the eggs. I had the whole thing. And I was getting really close to 40. Now I'm getting 40 in like six months. But I thought I met the guy.

Yeah. And he really, really, really wasn't. He deceived the whole thing. And it was basically was like, we're going to be, we're going to have kids. You're going to move in. And then he was like, actually, I want an open relationship. You know, just like fucking like east side, L.A. Hibster shit.

Okay. And after that, I just was like, maybe I'm not going to have kids in this particular environment. Sure. 10 years ago, I would have done it. And yeah, like, am I, I, I guess I don't even have a point. I'm just, is that bad? So I think this new. awareness is healthy and yes, women have been subjugated and yes, the ROI has been bad.

But what I think it has led to is a little bit of hyper scrutiny of who they're going to date. I do think people are looking for the perfect person. Well, for sure. Two things about that. A, the perfect person doesn't exist. Yeah. B, if you think the person's perfect when you meet them, there is a single direction that this can go. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They can only get less and less perfect. Right. Like I met Kristen. and she was a vegetarian who did communal living and was a Christian who believed in Jesus and went on to raise her kids with the Bible. Those are fucking deal breakers for me. Not being a vegetarian,

but just like that's incompatible with what I want to go out to eat and blah, blah, blah. She's living with 12 people. And I'm like, I don't want to live with 12 people. Like there's numerous things that were not preferred in Kristen. Yeah. And through growing together and towards each other, I like her way more now.

19 years in than I did when I met her. And what a better trajectory. Like, leave some places to grow. Yes, yes. And guess what? You're not fucking perfect. The arrogance of that you need someone perfect. Who the fuck is perfect to say that they deserve someone perfect?

And by the way, I'm a dude when she met, I'm jumping out at stoplights and fighting a guy once a month. Right, right. She doesn't want that. She deserved better than that. Right. I had only been in an open relationship. That's, you know, by today's standards, that girl, no way.

You know, on the internet, they'd be like, run. This guy's violent and aggressive. And he's fucking all the time. And guess what? We're way more the people we wanted over time. I think that that is definitely going on. I think it's this over, you know, particularly since COVID, again, people are just spending more time alone. And there's spending too much time thinking and not enough time doing.

You know, a lot of times self-improving instead of, you know, just be the best way to improve yourself, as you point out, is to be in relationship. And I do think we are trying to be the perfect partner. And I had that. I mean, when I started dating my boyfriend, like, I would call my friends who are married, not my, not my single friends, because I know what advice I'm going to get from my single friends. He's doing that.

Oh, that's toxic. And then my married friends are like, let me tell you. Like, you know, this is a, we've had this fight a hundred times. Yes. And being in a relationship is hard. And it's amazing. But like if you are entering a relationship thinking, yeah, you're going to find the perfect partner and you're the perfect person, it's actually going to show you a lot of places. If you're doing it right, it's going to actually show you the places you need to grow.

But that, yeah, requires discomfort. It requires vulnerability. And I think that those things are on the down, you know. Yeah, it's a weird environment. Stay tuned for more mom's car. We are supported by Uber Eats. Do you love cooking but dislike having to find parking and wandering aisles trying to remember if you're actually out of certain ingredients? Because, same.

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Save 20% off your first order of $60 plus with code Mom's Car 20. Terms apply. See App for Details. Let me deliver this real quick. This is so yummy. I liked what you guys said. When you said the ROI on the women or not, the return isn't as much, I was like, oh my gosh. And I'm like, yeah, I can see that.

How did dating Ruthie improve your life? She is so much like Dax. That, um... Yeah. Like, he knows this. I was like, well, there's no way I found a female version of Dax. And it's not that insane. But it...

No, I said the same thing about my boyfriend. Yeah. I was like, he's female, my best friend. Yeah. That was so similar. That's so funny. Yeah, it's wild. Because you want to be a friend.

And guess what? Ruthie makes my life better every day because she doesn't, she does tell me how it is. Yeah. And I'm still very standoffish about that. You are. Wait, tell me more about that. I feel like guys, they want to be challenged with them. When you challenge them, they get mad. Yeah.

I'm really bad at it. What I'm good at now, though, is coming around very quickly and apologizing and meaning it. I think women get triggered in so many ways. Sure. But I do think men, there's a, it's almost like you feel. I feel embarrassed. Yeah. Yeah.

We're talking about Ruthie. I said that she's a lot like you in a lot of ways. In the way that my life improves by being around both of you. And you both say things to me that you're sincerely trying to better my life or maybe just putting something else out there like, oh, well, maybe. And you're both so delicate with me because that's how I need to be treated. But I do a sense That I love you Yeah, but I still am standoffish

Ruthie Nye's first tension was we went into a gas station And both of us were getting the stuff we know Aaron likes Is that a road trip up north And then we were both like We're going to figure out who's taking care of Aaron this weekend Yeah, like I love to nurture and care for Aaron Like more than anything And so does she

I was like, oh my God, look at these things. Honestly, they have a burn. She's like, are you the girl over and am I the girlfriend? Yeah, that's another. I might I've got to have been the girl for a long time. I was like, wait, who do I have sex with this? One will leave me very sore in the other one. What should I do?

Well, let me also say, like, dude, men are terrible. Well, that's the thing. We're terrible. We're both terrible in different ways. And I can all know we're terrible. Terrible, but I don't think women are as much of a threat to men that men are a threat to women. That's been totally fair. And I think that's what makes it really challenging.

And I'll say, like, after that happened to me last year, I got ruthless with dating. Where first sign of a weird thing, you know, not in a rude way, but I just cut things off really quickly. And in a way, I think I met this amazing guy that I'm dating now who's truly like feels like soulmate level. Like, even though it's only been three months, I'm like, we are, it's like what Aaron said, actually. He's like, Ruthie's a lot like, Dax. I was like, oh, that's what I said about my boyfriend. I was like, oh, you remind me like my best friend, like female version. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so I feel so lucky to be with a man who's amazing. And I think it was because I did own my part. And my sponsor did. Like, I'm in program. Like, she was like, pray for him. And I was like, pray for him. Excuse me? And she, you know, so I have been working.

on my part, and I think you are right. I think both things are right. I think it's hard when women are told, why aren't you finding a guy, why aren't you getting married, but also all men are terrible? And then you're like, well, which one is it, right? And how do I, how do I do it? You know, it's hard. But look, all men are terrible. Not for us, right? Like, it doesn't bother us. To say that. Our terribleness isn't bother us when we're together. Men are troubled by each other's terrible. And equally, women are terrible. And you're terrible. And you're terrible. You guys don't, you're not annoyed by your terribleness within your gender. Sure.

That's, yeah. So we got to make it work. That's the other thing. It's like, I don't think anyone walks into it with an appropriate expectation of what this is. Like, we're pretty different. Yeah. And we're going to try to make this thing work. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And that's going to be hard. Yeah. You know, that's going to be tricky. Yeah. But no, they're terrible. Like, we were watching this great comedy that's not out yet, this new Jake Johnson, Dakota. The best. Wait, what?

It's so good. It's so good. you're gonna fucking love it it's called the sun never sets and it's like an older guy dating a younger woman and he already has kids and he's saying you know just so you know i'm not gonna have kids he's always been up front of them not gonna have kids i'm not gonna get remarried yeah and then he can tell she's really starting to want that and she's got a friend who's pregnant and he's like look i love you i would do this forever but i think you need to take the summer and see if you can find the thing you want right and um on the surface like it's great it tricks you i'm like yeah this guy's being being very generous, but he's certain she's going to go out there and see a bunch of bozos and come back and do the program he wanted to do forever. So she goes out there and then she does. She has these terrible days. She wants to be with him.

Then she bumps into her ex-boyfriend who's been out of town for three years. And now it's kind of fucked up. Now she starts hanging with him and sleeping over this. And then once Jake finds out that's happening, he's like, hold on. You wait, you were at your ex-boyfriend. I want to have a baby with you more than ever. Let's get married. Right.

So he just completely flips because he can't. And if he can give you, I can give you. Yes, I'll go camping and I'll be outdoors, you know, all this, everything. And so then he flips. And then so he's a mess and she's now into the boyfriend. So then he's forced to start dating. So then all of a sudden he's dating someone his age. And he likes her kind of a lot.

And then she freaks out and flips. And it's just this, it's such a honest portrayal of like how lost bias fucks us up so much. And what they keep showing both these men. do which is universal. It's like, that's not my thing. I don't like going to art shows. Hanging out with your friends isn't my thing. And just men with their, it's not my thing and their unwillingness to be a slightly

uncomfortable or try something new or do anything that they haven't figured out how to do. Yes. Has to be mad. Until we lose them or about to lose them. Or you get better for the next girl, right? Like, we totally. It's the way people do AA. It's the way I did.

It's like, what you're supposed to do is go to meetings, read this book, have a spancy blank. Right. Or the steps. Like, yeah, I'll admit, I'm powerless. I'm not fucking with the God thing. I do 20% of it. And guess what I'm fucked up for three months? And I come back and I go, you know what?

And I'll do 40% of it. Works for three months. Then I'm fucked up. And then eventually I go, okay, I'm going to do all the fucking things. Totally. Totally. Totally. Totally.

Totally. But yeah, we're the worst, right? We're the worst. I think men don't necessarily understand. and the depth of the heartbreak and the harm that love, again, love mommy, whatever you want to call it. Yeah. I mean, there are biological things, especially if you have sex. Like, if we have sex with you, then we're feeling, there's a hormones.

You're releasing oxytocin and I'm not. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think there's a physical thing we never talk about. Like, you're literally inside of me. Like, it's a different thing physically. I agree. And so I... You've invaded my body.

Yeah. Like, what you say with Aaron, if you have sex with Aaron versus Ruthie, like, it's different. Right. And so I think that maybe for a lot of... men, they don't understand why love bombing is so pernicious because they can't even maybe imagine how painful it is because they don't have all of those. But then there's also this fascinating data, right, that men, well, A, women break up with men more than men break up with women. That's an interesting thing. Men tend to carry it longer than women do. Carry the heartbreak longer. They tend to move on

less well than women do, right? So it's like, this is why I'm saying it's like, stop the, you guys are terrible and we're this. It's like, no, it's a, it's a hard and messy, confusing thing. And our hardwiring is set up against us in a lot of ways. And everyone's got to transcend that. And we have different bodies. I mean, I do think these things are real. The risk of pregnancy, the risk of, again, when we're falling for each other, when we're having sex, I think that's where like gender neutral dating advice doesn't work because it is going to be different for the woman than it is for the man. And that's why I do tell women wait to have sex. I mean, that was one of the first advice I got in. And by the If you want a date a dude, that is the move.

It is. And then you could go like, oh, so women can't be horny and fuck. No. Yeah. Have a dude you fuck. Get a vibrator. Get a vibrator or have a fuck buddy, right? I think you and I talked about this before.

I heard this psychologist saying like there's three categories. One night stands. And then there's booty calls that last for months or years. Right. And then there's relationships. And really the only damaging one is the middle. So yeah. Fuck if you're horny.

I think women should fuck if they're horny. And then if they're horny. Yeah. And then if they want, there's a guy they want to be with, then yes, I think probably, oh, though, look, Chris and I fucked immediately. I get it. So also there's that. Relatable. Okay. How do you think? I think another thing that is really different between the genders is I think women have a lot more fantasy around relationships. And I don't think men have much fantasy about relationships. Yeah. And I think that's one of the big issues on the table. What do we think about that? But here's why, right? Like, it's not just the marriage. It's, you're getting trending. They're going to, there's a guy that. There's a guy that. that's going to come inside of you, create a human being with you. Like,

there, we, we do have, I mean, I can speak to this on a physiological level. When I was 38, from 35 to 38, I was a,

I was a hornbag. Yeah, like I just was, I felt, I want a dick. I wanted to be, but even the way I was having, it was like,

it was like, well, for sure, for sure. And I was working through that. Yeah. But I also think that there's a real physiological urge to reproduce

for me anyways. And again, if you're a woman, you are incentivized. And this is, if you go back in evolutionary, you need to find a man who will take care of you, who will take care of your baby, who will provide and who you can survive and who will give the best chance for your baby to survive. You wouldn't be here if that's not how it had been done before we got here. We are the product of that. Yes. Of my mother choosing well and my dad being all of those things. Well, just look at the data of viewership of romantic comedies.

I mean, it's like, you know, I don't know the numbers, but 90-10, right? Oh, guys aren't even really, they don't care. No, they're not fantasizing about the meat cute and all that stuff. Yes. So that's a huge gap between us. Like, how do we bridge that gap? I think it's, again, we have so much more at stake to risk, and it's just the investment is bigger. It's the risk reward of it all.

And so women are approaching dating in a very different way, if they're smart. But again, that might be vestigial. So we have so many vestigial things that we're, We're still dealing with them. They're not even material anymore. Totally. Yeah, like, do you really need a perfect provider? No.

No, but your body thinks so. Yes. I guess the point, I keep coming back to this of the risk of choosing the wrong partner if you're a guy is big, right? Like, love is always high stakes. If you're a woman and you're choosing the wrong partner, though, there's just a lot more that can happen. And there's a lot of a greater, again, the investment is different. And you could be stuck with the bill a lot more than a guy can be. Yeah, yeah.

And that comes back. to the advice you're giving, you know, your daughters around like, be careful. Don't, I don't know if guys have to be as careful. Yes, we both have our parts, but I think that we have to recognize that it is not an equal playing field. Like, men and women coming onto the dating scene, there's just not going to ever be. Men will never know what it's like. And I think this conversation, like, this is what you don't find on the internet to me.

Like, the nuance of it all of yes, each person. And the good faithness, right? Like, I love you. You are very, very smart. I assume you have the ability to give me a perspective I don't yet have. And I imagine you're able to listen to my perspective without feeling attacked. No, it's helped me a lot. Yeah.

I love talking to you. Because we do sometimes, look, we're similar yet you're also a female and I'm a male. So I'm naturally protective of this group of dudes who's dying at mass rates. For sure. And I'm like, yeah. And then you're justifiably concerned about all these women who are being fucked with. Yeah. I love you, Liz.

You're so fun and smart. I love you guys. I thought we were just going to fart around and we're just going deep. We don't ever fart around. Fart, fart, fart, fart. That's the way we learn. Fart, fart, fart, fart, fart. Love you.

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