Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Nicholas Hoult Returns

Episode Date: July 7, 2025

Nicholas Hoult (Superman, The Great, Nosferatu) is a Golden Globe-nominated actor. Nicholas joins the Armchair Expert to discuss how becoming a blonde for a role hasn’t changed his personality, how he inspired Dax’s body reckoning, and dramatically overreacting when he tore his ACL on the basketball court. Nicholas and Dax talk about not feeling good enough for motorcycles to be his identity, what roles people still approach him about on the street, and how coming on the pod really gives his self esteem a boost. Nicholas explains the personal information he learned playing JD Salinger, gleaning wisdom about the emotional art form of acting while working with Clint Eastwood, and putting judgement aside when portraying villainous characters like Lex Luthor in the new Superman. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new content on YouTube or listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ now.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple podcasts, or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. It's an exciting week. It's the beginning of Superman week. This is so exciting.

I love a week. I love when we do a theme. Yes. Da da da da,, da da da da. And to kick that week off, we have a returning guest, someone I've pursued passionately for a friendship, as you'll learn, unrequited. Still am in love with him, that's how charming he is.

How could you not be? What a smoke show. Nicholas Holt. Nicholas Holt is a Golden Globe nominated actor. The great Warm Bodies, About a Boy, The Order. Now, Superman in theaters July 11th. I mean, go check it out. Check it out.

Please enjoy Nicholas Holt. We are supported by Audible. Thanks to Audible for being the presenting sponsor of today's episode. We could all use an escape these days and the best way to do it, Audible for being the presenting sponsor of today's episode. We could all use an escape these days and the best way to do it, Audible. With over 1 million titles in their selection, there's more to imagine with Audible.

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Yeah. Because it really answers the question I've always had, like what if we were peers in the same age and we grew up together and I think this would have been your look in junior high in the 80s. This is very skaters. I've never bleached my hair before, this is a first. How are you liking it?

I'm kind of into it. It hasn't changed my personality yet. Oh. But I'm gradually migrating into it. You're picking up some traits. You're having more fun. Oh yeah, of course, That was the first thing. Right out of the gates.

I walked out of the salon and I threw those brunette shackles away. And here I am. All of a sudden you realize, oh that's right, I do own a convertible. I'm going to put the dot down. I haven't done that yet. I'm kind of liking it. It's fun. Yeah. Is it for a roll? Yeah. It wasn't just me, like midlife panic meltdown. I think you're a little below midlife. It's for a roll, yeah. Okay, fine. Is it for the role? Yeah, it wasn't just me, like, midlife panic meltdown.

I think you're a little below midlife. It's for a role, yeah. Okay, fine. Is it for the David Leitch? It is for the David Leitch movie, yeah. Oh, how exciting. Did you see Fall Guy? You must have. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I saw Fall Guy. Do we agree it's a perfect film?

It's brilliant. And such a great celebration of the stunt industry. And that's what's so exciting about what David's done recently as well in terms of getting the stunt recognition category in the Oscars as well. Oh, did he succeed at that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think in two years or something there's going to be a stunt design category, I think, is what they're calling it. So that will be part of the Oscars.

I'll expect them to give me a lifetime achievement award in that department. Get on it. I never thought I had a route into the Academy Awards, but this could be it. That's like they just added podcasting to the Golden Globes. He just shit on the Golden Globes publicly. I'm like, well, there goes our shot. Well, redact that quick now. It's a little late.

You've got to start saying some good things about the Globes. Quick. I know. We got a campaign. You've had to play that game. Have you ever been on any weird lunches? I was lucky. I got nominated for the Globes twice. The first year was COVID. So we didn't get to go.

I just sat at home with a laptop. Is that good or bad? I was kind of like, oh, it would have been fun to go. I just sat at home with a laptop. Is that good or bad? I was kind of like, oh, it would have been fun to go. And be nominated and been like, yeah, okay, this is an achievement. And then the following year I got nominated again and it was when everyone boycotted the Golden Gloves. So again, nobody went.

And I was like, what? And then the following year I didn't get nominated. And everyone was back there having the best time. They loved the Golden Gloves again. And I was sitting at home, ruining it being like, ugh, stewing. If you get nominated again, and then there's another event,

we will have to conclude. That's a you problem. It's definitely a Nicholas problem. Yeah. How have you guys been? It's been a while since I've been on. Yeah. The house is looking lovely.

You're looking very strong. Oh, God. We can talk about that more. I'd love to. I'd like to do an hour on it. What are you doing? We should pull up a picture. What are you eating? Robbie, pull up a picture. What are you eating?

Robbie, pull up a picture of the first one. The last. Because I want to see how different you look. You would be probably shocked with how often we have talked about you since you did the podcast. Every episode. And specifically, your body. Oh, really? Yes.

Truly. Not to put you on the spot, but yes, you come up as the perfect male body. Oh, thanks Me and women and me here's what happened I had my own journey with your body Yeah, I got big and then there was a moment it was actually when you were on you left It was a moment of clarity. I go, that's what women like. They don't want a fucking 220 pound dumb-dumb. Right, my body is unbelievably, I'm in the gym a fair bit, I'm playing sports,

but I actually don't really look like it. And everyone just talks about how scrawling I am online. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no one's talking about that. Every woman I know is talking about how it's pretty much perfect. And I myself conceded to that when I left you. I was like, yeah, that's what every gal's looking for.

You are very fit, but it doesn't look like you are trying too hard. There is a sweet spot. Oh, look at us! Okay. Oh, my God. What's happening? We just look younger. Did you do the same thing I did?

Let's be honest. You've got Nicholas in the photo. Yes. Really, your eyes should go there. And then I look at myself and I did? Let's be honest. You've got Nicholas in the photo. Yes. Really your eyes should go there. And then I look at myself, I go, oh my God, what happened to my face? What's wrong with me?

Did you do the same thing, Monica? Did you find your own face and then just get locked in? Well, yeah. You start criticizing? I was just like, oh, we're getting older. Uh-huh, okay. Like I can tell. From these folks, we're all getting older.

Yeah. What, this is three years? No, you look younger for sure, with the fun blonde hair and clean shaven. Yeah. I guess you're not clean shaven. You're aging backwards. Get that off there, Rob. But I'm already kind of big there.

Yeah, especially, you look muscular there too. But you left, it was like a reckoning, and I was like, I gotta be honest with myself, I'm clearly not doing this for women. I know that this is the dream. Well, now you're doing it for me, because I walked in and saw you, and I was like, woof. me because I walked in and saw you and I was like, woof. He's like a mock to a flame.

I was like woof woof. And it works. Men love his body now. We do. Women are out, men are in. Let's go. Yeah, so you stopped doing it for men, but as a result of that, I've actually done it even more for men.

Yes, it's all for men and probably always been for men, but it took me a while. As long as you're fit and healthy and happy, then it's all good. What is your routine? Well, at the moment, I've got a different routine because I've torn my ACL. Oh, you have. Three weeks ago. Shooting?

No playing basketball. Without pickup. Saturday morning game. I was really feeling it. Do you appoint yourself power forward? What role are you playing? Yeah, power forward. It was rough. The most embarrassing thing was it went.

I was laying there and I was spindly, and I was a little pansy about it. I was like, ah, oh wow, hyperventilating. Someone I was playing with, they were like, someone get help or something. Call 911. They did. No, they did not.

So eventually like 10, 15 minutes later, I'm up and like people are helping me out at the gym to get in the car, to try and get home. My wife had told me that day, she was like, don't go play tomorrow morning because you're playing on Sunday anyway, just chill. And I went anyways. And then I was like, oh right, I shouldn't have been here

and now I've done this. Now she's got a went anyways. And then I was like, oh, right, I shouldn't have been here. And now I've done this. Now she's got a night told. And then two fire engines turn up. Ooh. And all these firefighters jump out with their emergency gear and run it towards her and I'm hobbling out. And I was like, no guys, it's really okay. I was like, this is so embarrassing, it's fine.

That's rough. The fire brigade show up. Yeah, they all look to me like, what is your problem? Why were we called for this? Cause you probably already were regretting your reaction by the time you were up and walking. Yeah. I was like, am I overreacting? Right.

It felt pretty bad. But it's horrible. My knee just went outwards. And then people kept on asking me, did you hear a pop? And I was like, I don't think, but also I was probably shrieking in my mind at that point. It's a complete tear song. Yeah, I did.

All I'm looking for out of you right now to help me in my features, do you know? You know. You go, oh you go that's torn looking back. Yeah, I was like, that's not good. Okay, that was pretty obvious There's something definitely Disconnected yeah, they and did you get surgery for it? No, yeah I've got to go do the film first because if I did the surgery now, I wouldn't be able to wait This is an action movie. You'll be running and jumping. Yeah. yeah, so that gets back to your question about what I'm doing. I'm doing physio three times a week, just kind of trying to get full motion back and strength. Because people can survive without an ACL, it's just not good if you are like...

In an action movie. Changing direction, trying to run them, Rob Banks and whatever else. Oh, Lord. Did you have to call Dave personally? The director, David Leish? I did, I called him, yeah. Yeah, tell me about like leading up to that phone call. I was just like, oh, that's how I'm an idiot. Yeah, first I get my wife's gonna say, I told you so.

And then next is this. Well, at that point, I didn't have all the information. I hadn't got my MRI and I didn't know when I was gonna get, so there was a lot of unknowns at that point. So I just called him and I was like, hey, this is the deal. And David's great, he's one of the nicest people in the world. He was like, oh, I've had that, it sucks. Don't worry, we'll figure it out. I've had six of those. Don't worry. He was lovely

He was like just keep you posted what we can do and how we're gonna make this work So then luckily when I went to the doctor he was like, yeah Well, I wouldn't do surgery now anyway, cuz this and this so we do after film We'll get you up on your feet and I called David straight after that and I was like, we're good Josh Brolin was stabbed in Mexico days before starting the movie. That was wild. Recently, today?

Now is this a news break? Is he okay? On what film was that on? I don't remember. He was down in his using days and he was taking a quick holiday before he started production when he got stabbed in the chest by a guy

and had to come home. And he also, he broke his arm like three days before No Country for Old Men, but it kind of worked because his character- He's like doing it on purpose to be rugged. I just think in the scheme of things, worse has happened where he shows up with a fresh stab wound to stab. We're gonna have to make this work.

That swimming scene's out, I have a hole in my chest. Fresh stab wound. God, I think I would be tempted to just show up and be like, yeah, so I also tore my ACL so they couldn't recast me. They wouldn't have time to recast me. I did that for a commercial, if you recall. And you got fired.

I could not book commercials. I auditioned for eight years from commercials and I got two of them. This would be a third. But on the weekend before the shoot, a guy punched me in the nose. As I was sitting down criss-cross. Criss-cross apple style.

I was sitting like that and got my nose broken. You were sitting like, is that why the guy punched you? Because he was like, no, criss-cross apple style. He thought I was appropriating. Why are you calling it Indian style? Yeah, he was, I don't even know who's mad. Native Americans or Indians are mad. No one knows.

Okay. Yeah, but severely broken. And I was like, I don't even know who's mad, Native Americans or Indians are mad. No one knows, no one knows. Yeah, but severely broken. And I was like, I'm just gonna go and hope that they can put makeup on it. And they caught me. It was like this big, I had black and blue eyes and it was crooked.

What was this commercial for? It was for Carl's Juniors. Carl's Junior? Carl's Junior. I don't need to say juniors. Yeah, that's all right. Yeah, it's the Michigan in me came out. I wanna catch everyone up.

So you came on. I was very charmed by you as most people are. And I was like, you know what? This is going to be my new young friend. I know. And then we haven't hung out once. I know. We've texted a fair bit.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm pursuing you a little stronger. No, I'm just very unavailable. You are, which is probably why I'm so attractive. That's so attractive. And I'm such a bad texter as well. When I opened my messages today to text you and then I was like, oh shit, I haven't responded to this message, and I felt bad, so I apologize for that.

Yeah, you're in a relationship with a hot guy. I know what they feel like, it's working. I'm very good when it's like, oh, we're going to meet. But like that... Just a casual check-in. Well, I've got kids and this and that and work and everything, I'm just like bouncing around a lot. I'll do better with that.

No, no, no, no, no. It's not an excuse. I want to doubt myself as heavily pursuing you. You were riding recently down at Koda, right? Yeah, yeah, on motorcycles. How was that? It was incredible. Have you driven that track? I have. I did that track. Um...

Yes. Did you crash? No, I didn't crash. We were there for South by Southwest, and I was there with my two best friends. We'd gone out the night before, and I was like, we're gonna go to the track tomorrow, maybe drive, and then we hadn't slept.

And I turned up at the track, and then they were like, we're going to go to the track tomorrow and maybe drive. And then we hadn't slept. And I turned up at the track and then they were like, oh, there's a bike session out now. Do you want to go out? And me being young, I was like early twenties, mid twenties, I don't know, I was stupid. And I was like, yeah, okay. Oh, you went out on a motorcycle?

Yeah, so I went before the car session went out on a bike. Yeah, how did that feel? It felt like I shouldn't have been doing it. It's pretty quick. Yeah, it's pretty dangerous. It's like a hindsight dumb decision, but I was like, well, I don't know when I'll be back again. Might as well.

But it's a fun track. It's a beautiful track. It's surprising how much elevation change there is there. As I say, it's like, if you want to experience what it's like to ride inside of an American flag, that's what it is. It's so colorful and I love it. So have you been driving?

I've been driving. I was at Daytona. Are you in the Ferrari Challenge? Yes. This time I was in Track Attack. We had a bit of a rough weekend. Daytona. Have you done Daytona? No.

So it's a fun track, because we do like the banking of the Tri-Oval, but then you go into the infield. It was my first time there. I did have a crash. Oh, you did? I'm in the wars at the moment. I had the crash, I turned the knee.

Everything's like, oh, I should stop doing all this. You start questioning. There's a little bit of doubt creeping in occasionally now where I'm like, oh, this never used to happen. But it was, yeah, my second session out there of Ferrari Challenge, and I was probably pushing a little bit too hard. There's a brake zone on the back straight, where you're breaking down for the bus stop chicane sort of thing,

and you're coming breaking from like 170 or 180, and I lost the back end into the tires. Ah, oopsies. Yeah. There's no level of embarrassment for me worse than if I fail in a vehicle. First of all, it was that weird feeling. How many times have you crashed? Motorcycle once, four pieces,

the clavicle and the whole thing. So really I've had that. That's the only thing I've had. No. And then I've had, go ahead. No, no. In the neighborhood, you hurt yourself on a bicycle bicycle.

Electric bike. I did crash an electric bicycle. After I had already had the shoulder it was bad Yeah, broke all the hardware But there's some level of embarrassment for me when it's vehicular because it stacks his whole identity Is it your whole identity? I don't think it is. I wouldn't say it's the whole What percent I think there's the whole identity and I'm not that good at it If I was really good at it, then I could be like,

oh yeah, it's more of my identity, but I'm not good enough for it. Mine's disproportionately more my identity than it deserves to be. So you shouldn't let that rule it out. I can't put all of it, but it depends what I'm obsessing about at that time that suddenly becomes my thing. Yeah. It's got to be a big chunk of your identity. Yeah, I do enjoy it. And I enjoy the obsession about it and the details and whatever else.

But yeah, I was embarrassed. It was that weird thing when I felt the crash happening, I was like, ah, and at that moment, there's nothing you can do about it, it's too late. There's a little bit of time slowing. The only time I've come off a bike on track as well, I remember the thought was, oh, this is what it feels like. Right.

Which is a weird thing, but you just go, oh, this is what's happening, this is what it feels like. Cause it's out of your control. Then I hit the tires. Probably the team were kind of happily surprised there wasn't as much damage as there could have been to the car. It was on a 24 hour.

No, no, no, It wasn't an endurance thing. The next day we got back out in the car and that was the weird thing was then trying to get back out because that's the first time that's happened where I was like, oh, and we lost the data in the video, so we don't know what I did wrong. Oh. I'd be coming up to that turn on real tentative because I was like, oh, what happens if something happens again? Yeah, it's very scary to not know why it happened.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a weird thing. OK, two more things, Monica. I promise we'll move on. Yeah, yeah. Sorry, sorry. I am remembering last time there was a fair portion of- Before we just monopolized the conversation about racing, my bad. No, no. But when you're at Daytona, so when I did the Lamborghini thing,

we did Fontana, which has the bank. I had the advantage of someone in that series, well, two dudes in that series were NASCAR drivers, so I got to go out in practice and do the bank with them. But there was a moment before I went out behind them where I had done it and I was like, fifth gear flat, that's as fast as a human can go through this turn. And I came and I started talking to the NASCAR guy.

He's like, oh no, it's six gear flat through there. I'm like, there's no fucking way. And he's like, well, just get behind me and follow me. And I'm like, okay. And I did and lo and behold, you could, but I'm just curious, did you have that learning curve with the bank where it's like, oh my God, you can go. Oh yeah, the first time I went out, I went out with my coach

and he did three laps, four laps. I came in and I thought I was going to cry. I was like, that's so intense. Yeah, I got to do that now? My eyes were just a little bit misty and I was like, I'm not going to cry, but I just feel a little bit overwhelmed by everything that's just happened. And it's so fast.

Yeah, it's like 31 degrees, the bank, whoever, and you are flying, I think the fastest we hit there was 190. 190 turning left. Oh my God. So it was like one of those where they came in, they were like, go on, Nick, hop in the driver's whatever, and you are flying, I think the fastest we hit there was 190. 190 turning left. Oh my God. So it was like one of those where they came in, they were like, go on Nick, hop in the driver's seat, off you go. At that moment I was a bit like,

oh, I don't know about this. But then you do build up to it. Obviously also I've done the track on the Sim before getting there, and that banking feels like it's like six lanes wide and no worries. And then suddenly you get on it and you are lent over as far as you are, and it's technically three lanes wide,

but it feels like there's only room for one maybe two cars and you're looking up out the window over there all your peripheral vision is now moving by you it's the only time you really feel speed everything out the windows going by 190 and you're like oh I'm flying yeah it's a bizarre thing but then also I'll end race chat okay there was a beautiful moment so that on the Sunday we finished basically, and I was just like out there lapping a little bit. And the sun was setting and I was on the banking

and I wasn't really pushing, but I was just kind of out there just enjoying like the sunset day turn of cruising around the banking. And I was like, this is a once in a lifetime experience. That felt very special. I was like, oh yeah. Okay. Last race thing. You'll like this one though. It's more fun. Are you still following Formula One?

Yeah. Great. How do you feel Formula One? Yeah. Great. How do you feel about Max? This season, particularly watching how far his car is off the pace, watching what he's doing, I'm really impressed by him. Just to say, Monica, teammates, almost without exception, always finish within two places of each other.

Max's whole season is finishing in the top three and his teammates 14 regularly. He's 11 places ahead, always. It's remarkable where he's doing this year, and in qualifying and in the races, it's really impressive. I bring him up because did you hear that they did a screening for F1 in Monaco? No, I didn't know that. It's perfect. I saw it.

Oh, you saw it? It's excellent. It's everything you want it to be. Every driver's in the movie, virtually, and so they invited all the drivers to see a screening of it at Monaco, and everyone went, except for Max, because he had a sim race scheduled. I think it's greataco, and everyone went except for Max. Because he had a sim race scheduled. I think it's great. He's prioritizing his real job.

Well, sim racing's not his real job. That's his hobby. But he is so obsessed with it. It's part of the reason he has Max. But when I saw it, I leaned over to Kristen, and I'm like, fucking Max. He's in a movie with Brad Pitt. There's some sequences where it's he and Brad Pitt.

And he's like, I don't need to see that. Maybe he's just excited to see it another time. Maybe he's got tickets for opening day. I think he doesn't care. And I think that's cool. I do too. He's like, I don't care about these movie stars. I'm a race car driver.

He doesn't even care if he's in a movie with Brad Pitt. To be in a movie with Brad Pitt and not go see is so next level to me. Yeah. You'd go see it. I would go see a movie with Brad Pitt. If I was there, I'd go see it. If I'm not in it, I'll go see that movie.

That's right. You might be in a movie with Brad Pitt. Hopefully one day, I got to meet him and he was lovely. Where did you meet him? At the Venice Film Festival. I was chatting to a friend of mine and Brad came over and he'd seen The Great and really liked it. And then was just like,

hey, the show's really funny, you're funny. I was pretty starstruck. I don't get starstruck very much, but Brad was one that I was a bit like... He's overwhelming. I just kind of stuttered a little bit and then didn't say anything. And then now look back and I was like, oh... But he liked you, that's awesome.

Yeah, it was very cool. He is in the Beyonce category that I'm not sure if they're real. There's like a certain echelon of people. It's not even how famous they are. It's just there's something about them that I'm like, are you real? Well, he's also just given, for me, so many iconic, brilliant performances. Yeah, he's incredible. I was like, no.

You had things you could have said to him, but my brain wasn't working. I just stood there like a lemon. Can you imagine how many people he talks to that have that, everyone? It must be difficult. He's like, I can't have a conversation, because look at all these people. They just shut down. They're mumbling people.

Yeah, just mumble. It is kind of my main obsession with him is the longliness of it. I could have talked to him about that. Are you lonely? Yeah, he's like, hey, I like the show. Are you lonely? Let's talk about your loneliness.

Were you watching it because you felt lonely at home and you didn't know what else to do? You're reaching out to me. What's the thing that people almost come up to you for? Sometimes it's great, sometimes still skins, surprisingly, sometimes I explain. It varies. Yeah.

I just thought maybe it was one of these situations where like people who have been in tons of big movies and then they're in a TV show and they're not expecting that but that somehow is so much bigger. The TV thing is different because it's on every week and it's in people's houses. Being on TV makes you more recognizable than being in films in some way.

Yeah, in the case of The Great, they've got 30 hours of watching it versus two. And then also I would imagine people are still probably watching The Great for the first time right now. Hopefully. I was heartbroken to see it end. It has since ended since we saw you laugh. Yeah. I think that was season one or two.

Were you sad? I was very sad. I love playing that character and Tony's writing and working with El and all that cast. I was very sad. Our last day shooting, the scene when my character... Drowned. Drowned and... Spider.

Yeah. We just told people to watch it. Watch it, right. Leave that out. Is that what really happened to him? No. Oh, okay. It's all pretty fictionalized. It was emotional scenes anyway.

There were fun scenes to play, but I remember doing the first rehearsal, I think Ellen and I were just both crying. Oh, yeah. Because it felt like the end of an era and something that we loved doing so much. I was blown away to learn you live in Long Beach. Long Beach, California?

Yeah. Long Beach, California. How did you end up there? My wife's family are from down that way. We live not far from here in the hills. And then whenever I was leaving town for work, she would go down there to be closer to them. We got to like starting school time and all that and I was like, why do we live in LA? We just moved down there. Yeah. And I really like it. Close to the water. There's some good food and coffee. You can walk everywhere. The community is lovely and very welcoming. It's a good little spot. So come on down. Okay. Did you have a wife and kids last time we saw you?

Three years ago, yeah. He had a girlfriend and one kid. Girlfriend and one child. Okay, got it. Are they three and seven right now? Two and seven. Okay, so seven is first grade. Finishing first grade.

And you're going to school like I do, I imagine. I try and do drop off and pick up when I'm home. So when you do drop off, because I do dropoff, let's be honest, it's primarily moms. I don't know how it is in Long Beach. It's a mix. Yeah, I should be more fair. It's a mix. All you see is the women.

Probably. No, I see the dads, because you got to talk to the dads. Are you wearing a shirt when you do the school run? Yeah, exactly. Off and on, depends what the weather is. Straight out of the gym, sweat bad and all, pouring water over the head. Sorry, guys.

There is a mom I see at Drop Off that I often see on the hiking trail, and that feels weird, like I'm having an affair with her or something. Right. Why? Just because we saw each other and now we're hiking together. We're not hiking together,

but it looks like we're hiking together. Your brain. Ha ha ha. Joke. Yeah, what? But I would argue, I'm a six and you're a ten and I get attention. I love coming on this podcast. It really helps.

You can come on any time. I feel a bit rough. I might say if I go on armchair expert. All right. You're not going to answer that. Do the moms flirt? Would the moms be fucking pulling their hair out with you dropping the kid off? I don't think so.

I think I was just like, oh look, it's a bit boring and normal. Oh look, now he wants attention, he's dyed his hair blonde. Oh, he's limping. We're not giving you enough attention. He's holding a picture of his fiery car crash. It could go either way. If you're with your kid,

I think that gets neutralized a little bit. Oh, I think- You think it's hotter? I think it's the opposite. For dads. For dads. And lucky for us, the hits keep on coming for the moms. It's so true. It's so unfair.

But no, a guy with a kid for a woman is very attractive. One of my friends says this, he had a baby not long ago, and he was like, oh, a man with a baby is almost more attractive. Actually, that's right. To leave you a good dad. A thousand percent marks. You're like, oh, that's a partner that was willing to have a child, and he's caring for the child. Look, that's right. To be a good dad. A thousand percent marks. You're like, oh, that's a partner

that was willing to have a child and he's caring for the child. Look at him. Look at him. Doing the least amount probably. Exactly. Exactly. Taking all the credit.

It's taken 10 minutes of work that day. And we adore him. Let's celebrate him. What a guy. Dad of the year. I know. Oh, these poor moms. I know.

Father's Day is coming up, have you asked for anything? For Father's Day. No, but I need to think on it, because for Mother's Day, I take the kids away all day. I think the favor should be returned for me. Like she should rent a track for me. Oh yeah. Oh wow. And you. Yeah.

Us. We'll bring motorcycles and cars. This sounds perfect. Maybe we're alive at the end and maybe we're not. So she can maybe be a widow at the end of all this. They might both be happy with that. We'll take out policies on each other before as well. Another thing I was thinking about today was you're playing an American way more often.

Now is that true? It feels like you're playing an American more often than you are. It's probably 50-50. Grey was English, Nosferatu was English, but then The Order and Duran number two, those were American, and Lex Luthor's American. And when you're shooting something, are you inclined to just keep talking that way after work? No, I don't go home and be like, hey.

Hey, kids. Although sometimes my older boy will be like, if I'm practicing an accent a little bit, I stop doing that, stop talking like that. But he has an American accent, right? He used to have more of an English accent. He'd say, water. Oh. And now he says, like, water.

Oh, that's sad. I'm like, say it proper. Water. Exactly. Say it proper. So he's got more of an American accent now. He's probably more likely to pick up the words from you and not have the accent. Like, he'll probably say, Wilston shit.

Yeah, I think he says garage. Does he say controversy or do you? We'd never say that. We steer clear of that. Cause it's posh. So I would say controversy. Okay, but that's a polarizing word in England. Is it?

Yeah, so a friend of mine is a journalist there and he says controversy. And I was like, what have you done to the word controversy there? But it's split. I think it's a class thing. I think that might be a class thing. You must have been a shit bird.

I'm not as posh to say that. Controversy. Controversy. It's nice. No, but it's missing an R. You're saying controversy. Contra. There are weird words like that occasionally. Controversy. There's an R.

Controversy. So you are dropping an R. Controversy. It's just so posh you don't even need it. Controversy. Maybe, maybe they just don't have it. I don't need all those letters. Okay. You know what I'm talking about. Controversy.

It's three letters. Okay, since we, well not since we saw you, but I think I overlooked this the first time. When did you do Rebel on the Rye? That was when I was like 26. Okay, you did Rebel on the Rye and you're playing JD Salinger. I'm quite intrigued by JD.D. Salinger.

Did you learn neat stuff about him? I learned a lot about him at the time, most of which I probably can't remember now. All I know is he became extremely reclusive and was really, really allergic to fame. What was all that about? I think, I mean, I mean, I'm not... Yeah, you are. You're the next best thing we have.

I'm gonna talk as if I... I have the right to on that. I think there was somewhat an element of not wanting the judgment of critics and things like that. Because, and I'm butchering this completely, this is so long ago since I learned all this and thought about it. But I think there were some poor reviews of some of his later work and he hated that and didn't agree with it.

And it kind of made him more and more reclusive. And the fame and people putting their own things on top of his work work and he hated that and didn't agree with it and it kind of made him more and more occlusive and the fame and people putting their own things on top of his work and thoughts on him. There's all these serial killers, not serial, but assassins that carry the book. Yeah, carry the book around. Catches such a monumental work in terms of that character

and the voice of him and the dialogue and just everything that it represents. And supposedly a couple of years ago I remember reading, they're still in his vault all this unpublished work. The family have got enough considering maybe binding into a book somehow and releasing it. But that's one thing that I found really beautiful about him. There's a quote from, again, I'm going to butcher this, but the Bhagavad Gita? Is that how you say it? Okay, okay.

There's a quote in there that you have the right to work for the worksake only and not the fruits of its rewards. I think, and that was something that I found very beautiful about how he went about, it was almost like he became like a tribute to this Holy Spirit, or whatever you want to say, whereby he was doing the work for just the love of the writing, as opposed to the idea of judgment of it, or putting it out and it becoming something else

other than what it is for him. And that's kind of a beautiful way of looking at how he worked and what he did. There's a, maybe it's a progryphal story that when Nicolas Cage was dating Patricia Arquette, he asked her to marry him and she said, I'll only say yes if you get me a black orchid and JD Salinger's autograph. Really?

And he produced those and they got married. If I ever get to interview him, I need to know if that's a true story. And if so, how did he get this autograph? I will ask him. Please, because I now realize you've done two movies with him. I've done two movies with Nick. Weatherman and Renfeld, which I was their opening night to support my boyfriend who won't text me back.

Let's get him on the show. He's wonderful. I love Nick. Such a brilliant actor to work with, but I feel like that story is probably true. If anyone can manage to get those two things, it's him. Okay, so what he's famous for, I've heard too. I try to collect stories of Nick Cage, but he's apparently super famous for his rap gifts. That he gets like incredibly personal and incredible rap gifts. For people who don't know, a rap gift is a gift at the end of a shoot. Yep, at the end of a movie, you exchange rap gifts. For people who don't know, a rap gift is a gift

at the end of a shoot. Yep, at the end of a movie, you exchange rap gifts. You might think you're saying rap like... Like a rapper? A rapper, yes. Like he writes a rap into lip-gloss. That's true for you. He gives gifts which are his raps.

Which would also be iconic. I know, yeah. Like a producer friend of mine produced a movie he was in, and he had just mentioned in conversation who his favorite author was, long dead author, and for the rep, if he presented him with like an original copy of his most famous work signed by him. And then I've heard several stories like that. He's great at collecting signatures. That's like his thing it sounds like. There is a theme arising. Maybe it's all JD Seldra and he's

just photocopying every time. Not even real. He would just presume because they're from Nick. He's just a forger. Oh, you want a copy of that? I got a copy of the Bible signed by Jesus Christ from Nick King. Posted it on eBay. There you go. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. This is Nick. And this is Jack. We're best friends, ex-finance guys, and resident 90s experts. And every week on our podcast, The Best Idea Yet, we're bringing you the untold stories behind your favorite products.

For instance, can you guess which billion dollar fashion company went viral thanks to a rhinestone covered tracksuit? Or which cartoon turned four turtles into a global toy empire by accident? It started as a joke. Last one. Which cold beverage was so hated by Starbucks, they actually ended up acquiring it. Spoiler the Frappuccino. Howard Schultz apparently thought cold coffee was super lame and then he bought it. From Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles to Juicy Couture to the Orange Mocha Frappuccino.

Join us every week to learn how your favorite things got made. Follow the best idea yet on the Wonder app or wherever you get your podcasts. And you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus. And if this podcast lasts longer than 45 minutes, call your doctor. Is a black orchid that rare? I don't know. It must be. And I might even have the flower wrong.

But it was some orchid that's impossible to get. Oh, I want one. Can you ask the big cages to go get me one? Yeah, I'll ask for three. Funny enough, he was in adaptation and it was all about orchids. And I remember watching that thing going, is that the orchid she wanted? It's a great film. So we found them.

Did they get married? I don't know. They got married. They've since divorced. We've got to find out where that orchid she wanted? It's a great film. So we found them. Did they get married? I don't know. They got married. They've since divorced. We've got to find out where that orchid and the signed copy is. What would you say his personality is like? The word I would use is very pure. Authentic?

It's very authentic, but you know when you meet people that have got larger than life personalities, but they're kind of fake. They're put on and they're trying to be interesting. Nick has stories like you were just mentioning, all this wild life, but it's coming from the most pure place you can possibly ever imagine.

He couldn't be boring if he wanted to be. It's just a zest and love for everything and passion and it's authentic. It's not for attention. No, he's just one of the most idiosyncratic people I've ever met in a wonderful way. That's how I kind of describe him. I'm such a fan of his.

I wonder if I were acting opposite him, if I would get taken out sometimes. Yeah, I get taken out when you're working with someone like that because you've watched them so much in so many things and they're so unique. I wonder if I were acting opposite him, if I would get taken out sometimes. Yeah, I get taken out when you're working with someone like that, because you've watched them so much in so many things, and they're so unique. And what he's doing in that movie is outrageous. Yeah, so there's definitely moments where I'll be like,

oh, look, I'm getting a front row seat to see. Yeah, that's so cool. So there's moments where you recognize that, where I'm like, oh, this is fun. Yeah. I saw The Order, we had Jude on, you were phenomenal in that. Thank you.

I could imagine some actors today not wanting to play that role, because you're playing a real dude. Bob Matthews. Bob Matthews, who is a white supremacist who robbed all these banks. Oh, right, yes. To fund his.

Terrorist organization, essentially, yeah. His terrorist organization. Any reservations for you? Or like, I would leap at that role. God. I shouldn't say that. That sounds like I want to play. Yeah, that sounds crazy.

Reface that. Dying to get offered a white supremacist. Yeah, that didn't work. But it's juicy. I'd do it for free! I'm just going to go ahead and practice on my own until this comes. Don't even need the script. I'll improv the whole thing.

Make a movie. Dax, what are you doing? His character. It's scary though to say yes to a role like that in a time of cancellation. Yeah. Thanks Monica, that's what I was trying to say. Yeah, you know what the thing was going into that. I'd worked with Justin Cazelle, the director before.

So I trusted him and I knew his approach to making these movies and telling difficult stories. Like I played a villain in his other movie as well. And it was so unexpected, the process of working with him. Because his movies are pretty dark and intense and wonderful performances. So I got to the set for the first film we did together and I was like, oh, how's it going to be? And then it was so relaxed and caring and nurturing,

and he was so warm. And I was like, oh, this isn't what I expected. So when it was him directing and he sent me that script, I was like, I trust the process and I'm going to be okay with him. Yeah, but it's one of those to be good, which you are, you have to find sympathy, you have to be believable, you have to understand the point of view of these awful people. And that's tough.

That's interesting as well. You have to put judgment aside in some regards. But that's again how Justin's so good as a director. He'll look at the characters, obviously as the audience you can have your opinion, but he tries to look at them objectively and give them as much context around their lives. Yeah, what seemed like an easy anchor for that character was the hate and the bigotry and all that. That to me is kind of like the down river symptom of something else that this guy clearly had,

which is like, he wants to be a leader of people. He wants to be an elder. He feels small. These things are kind of human things we could latch onto. And I guess it's a testament to that director, because that, to me, was palpable. Yeah, from the outside, you look at it, and you clearly see the hatred and all the terrible ideology that he's spewing and what's not true about it.

But then when you're researching and learning about that person and their life and their beliefs, you have to kind of understand what it is that convinced them that those things are true. And also, what they believe they're protecting, and the love that they're believing that they're presenting for themselves and their family, and their dreams, and all that sort of stuff. They have to believe in that.

So you have to kind of switch your brain around a little bit into that. Yeah. I guess the reason I said I would... No. We don't need to circle back to that. Dig a whole deeper. How about this? This is a much more PG way to say it. I do think there's something crazy exhilarating about playing someone you're not supposed to be.

Yeah, and life, we're all trying to live and do the best we can. It's a little freebie. It's like you can go for three months and play Lex Luthor, play a villain and be an asshole. I only got to do once. I was a bad guy in one comedy, and it was the most fun I think I've ever had. Did you feel it was quite freeing in a way? Yes, it's like, oh, every time I think of what you should not do, that's what you do. There is something very fun about playing villains.

Totally, like you walk into a room, you see a guy in a wheelchair, and the first thought you have is like, don't say anything about running or anything that might make this person feel awkward. Okay, you got that out. This has really gone off the rails. What would you do as a villain?

Does it appeal to you at all to be a villain? We all have dark hearts and to be able to not suppress those but release those, yes, I get that. I don't see someone in a wheelchair and go like, ffff, don't say it. I don't, and I know a lot of people do. Yeah.

It's like, oh fuck, this guy doesn't have an ear. I just panic about what I could do wrong. You think it's accidentally gonna come out and you're gonna hurt someone. Yes. I don't have that. You don't have it. Do you have it at all?

Or you quickly evaluate what not to say in a room? Maybe too late. I don't evaluate quick enough. After Brad Pitt walks away. And then I'm like, oh, shouldn't have said that. In hindsight, now I realize that was not the thing to say. I don't think I have it as strongly as you do, maybe. I'm happy to be unique with it.

I think you're right. I think it might be almost like an OCD tendency. I think so. I think it's a common thing. There's definitely an eminence, and that's built into us since we're being kids as well. It's like, don't stare, don't do this, don't do that, don't say that.

Yeah. I'm the opposite. If I'm with you or our friend Jess, who's similar, I'm just aware of what you're going to do or what he's going to do that's a problem. Uh-huh. You're putting out fires in your brain already. Yes, already.

I'm like, how am I going to counteract when he stares? So we're engaged in the same battle. Uh-huh. You're playing out fires in your brain already. I'm like, how am I gonna counteract when he stares? So we're engaged in the same bad. I'm like the battle of good and evil Carnage you're like Teammates I don't know why you're upset. I know it I know What were we talking about? Oh, just pretending to be I just saw it, you were so great in that. Thank you. And then I do want to ask you about juror number two just for a second.

No. Clint Eastwood, I've had friends that have worked for him. He was 94 when you guys worked together? 93, he's now 94, I think he's gonna be 95 next week. Oh wow. Yes, and he famously does one take. I even heard a story, a friend that worked with him where it's like they were doing a rehearsal

and they rolled down rehearsal and it was like bombs and pyrotechnics and some of them didn't go and then he was like, okay, great. And everyone was like, no, no, that was a rehearsal. But he's like kind of famous for this. Is it nerve wracking? I was lucky. I had a really good experience because I went from doing Nosferatu straight into the order straight into Dura No. 2.

So I had literally a weekend between each shoot. And Rob Eggers, you shoot on film and it's kind of longer set up takes where you might end up doing 30 takes. Because you needed to get it all right in that single shot, because that's the scene. You can't cut around and edit things. And then Justin for the order, Justin goes, oh, you're shooting a film and he's exploring a lot with the character. You know, you walk away at the end of the day and you're like, oh, I don't know what that will be in terms of how that will play the scene in the edit, what they're going to pick up on. And then Clint, yeah, is basically one take, sometimes two, which is quite a jump.

Yeah. For me, coming from the other two, where I'm like, oh, yeah, okay. But there's a wonderful thing where you're like, well, it's Clint Eastwood. And he's made countless brilliant movies and given so many wonderful performances. You're like, so if anyone... He knows. Yeah, this is the guy to trust with that.

He plays jazz, piano and stuff. And it's like playing jazz, I suppose, in a way where you just trust the process of it. And it's difficult to let go. I wouldn't say the first take is always my best take. We stood there one day on set and I was like, so how do you act? Hey, Clint, quick question.

How do you act? Because I'm trying to figure it out over here. We're pretty deep into this and I should have asked you earlier. This is the end of week one and I don't know what I'm doing here. He was like, oh, well, it's an emotional art form, so you don't think too much, just do. Just feel it. And I was like, oh, that's so simple.

With everything else going on sometimes in our brains and whatever, you can kind of forget those things, I guess, just to keep it simple. And I think he's a believer in the story and a believer in the process and trust in the audience. And he just puts it out there. And I think that's why his movies are so good. Did you feel a kind of crazy pressure

when you had like a bigger scene in it? Like I'm only going to get one of these. I got to really deliver immediately. Yeah. I feel pressure with that even if I'm getting more takes. And I think it's probably good for me in some ways because otherwise I'd keep going, keep going. I'll do one more and one more.

And it's like, really? Am I making any difference at this point? Yeah. I learned that about you in a different interview. You said that that is who you are on set. Yeah. That's the only chance. And you in a different interview. You said that. That is who you are on set. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the only chance. And then in theory, lives forever.

When I want extra takes, it's because they've let the reins off and they're letting me improv and I'm finding a fun thing and I want to see where it can go. So it's totally driven by fun. I'm driven by pure fear. Is it fear? Yeah.

Have I done everything? Have I given what it needs? Are they going to be able to tell the story here in the edit? It's a little bit of that. Has that evolved over time? No, it probably should. Now you say it. But you know what we say about having fun,

I do find that normally if I'm having fun doing a performance, then people react better to it. They can feel it. And it's not even to say that I'm having fun in a way like, oh, this is a fun character. It could be like having fun playing an evil person. There's still something where I'm enjoying the process of it. So people seem to pick up on that.

That seems very, very on display in The Great. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that would be an example of that, where I was having a great time. Burberry. Oh. You didn't expect that one coming, did you? I didn't. That's a left turn.

I didn't. But I like it. I'm a recent convert. How come? Beckham the Doc. Oh, really? Did you watch The Doc? I didn't watch The Doc.

I've only seen that brilliant clip where Victoria's talking about being driven to school, and then David just sticks his head through the door. You were driven to school in a Rolls Royce. Shut up! Yeah. That's the best one. I grew up in a modest house. It's such a brilliant clip.

I need to watch the full documentary. But what is it in the documentary? He's so cool, I can't stand it. We must have already thought that because you're from England. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I was just chatting to someone yesterday. One of the first times I remember crying

at a sporting event was when we got knocked out of the World Cup in 98. Was that the pink card thing or the red card? Red card, yeah. And that's when England turned on him. We were very unhappy because he kicked someone. But not really when you watched the doc. Not really, but you get a red card for it and he was off.

Oh no, were you one of the haters? No, I was too young to really be a hater. I was just heartbroken. They would like build puppets of him and then burn them? No, it was 98. I was eight years old. You didn't go to the pub that had him hanging from a noose? Exactly.

I built that. Oh my God, okay, so you're a eight year old. I was just at home crying on the sofa, I remember. But he's so fucking cool and he's clearly wearing lots of Burberry. One of his teammates has a Burberry hoodie I had to order while I was watching the doc. Oh, you've got the Burberry hoodie? Yes. And then I learned this whole history I didn't know about from my aforementioned English friend, that hooligans wore Burberry.

This was the thing, and I don't know if Burberry have kept this in, but you know when you do like the little stuff behind the scenes clips or whatever, they were like, when did you first learn about Burberry? And I was like, oh, I was going to like a market in Liverpool. And they had all like the knockoff fakes. And that's when I first became aware of that pattern and how iconic it was, the brand, I suppose, in many ways. Because I was like, oh, people are imitating this and you can buy it cheap here in the market. Yeah.

Burberry hated that fact that the hooligans took that on as their official wardrobe. Yeah, they probably don't like me talking about that. And they're like, let's just get some fun social stuff. And I'm like, yeah, I learn about it. That time those four guys were beating up those two men in their Berber outfits, I thought, I want to wear that. That looks incredible. So are you a, like a, what are they called?

I just did one of their campaigns. You don't have to like wear them on red carpets and stuff. I don't think so. It wasn't a lifetime contract. You laugh, it's a real thing. Emma Stone has one with Louis Vuitton, so she has to wear a certain amount of Louis Vuitton on the red carpet.

Natalie Portman has Dior. I know a lot of stuff. Maybe if I keep saying it in this interview, maybe they will lock me up for life. They should. He was in the It's Always Burberry Weather campaign. And he was in rain, and it was rom-com. It was like nods to English ross.

It wasn't tribute to the old English rom-coms. And then he had to do press about it, and then they would ask him what his favorite English rom-com, and it's N rain and it was rom-com. It was like nods to English roms. It wasn't tribute to the old English rom-coms. And then he had to do press about it. And then they would ask him what his favorite English rom-com. And it's Naughty Hill if you're curious. I do love Naughty Hill. I do love Naughty Hill.

What did she say? Just a girl standing in front of a boy. Asking her to love him. What a magic. Do you follow, I imagine you have to It's a great movie. Do you follow Hugh Grant? Do I follow them? Just in general my experience with them is I just watch heretic. We both saw heretic. So good. Yeah I love watching Hugh. He's someone who's having fun. Yes, and it's fun to watch and he's so smart. He's brilliant He's perfect. He's just had this interesting ebb and flow to his career.

It's like you keep getting reminded he's perfect. I was watching some of the old Merchant Ivory movies the other day before I guess his jump into that iconic rom-com era of his career. And then I was thinking for you being a little boy, having worked with him, do you also watch him and then have even yet another layer of like just stoked you know him and you've known him for most of your life? Yeah, it's fun. You know, I ran into him last year at something and it was lovely because we had a proper catch up and a good little giggle,

which was nice. And I'm hoping that we're going to do something together again. Oh, nice. Oh, about a grandpa. Yeah. Just a pitch. Just me hobbling around going, oh, my knees. We were so young. Oh, about a bitch. Just me hobbling around going, oh, my knees. We were so young.

Oh, about a boy. That movie, it gave me the feeling. What feeling? So I have a thing called the feeling. It's not a good feeling. I can't really put my finger on it, but there are certain movies and TV shows that give it to me. I think in that movie, it was so real and sad and scary, because the mom dies. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. That's at the beginning of the movie. It was a long time ago. As soon as that happened, I was like, oh my god, this movie is too much. Too much. Overwhelming. I was little. I mean, I was sad.

You were supposed to say, I'm sorry. Yeah, this is your fault. No. This is your chance to apologize. What else have you recently had the feeling? Oh, that's a great question. So I would say my recently would be, did you watch Adolescence? Yes!

The end of Adolescence. Oh my gosh. I was just sitting there shattered. That was the first time for a while that I turned something off and just sat there and been like... I know. That one is a hard watch, but an important watch. Yeah, yeah. Great show.

And you have a little boy. Yeah. Yeah. Does that scare you? Yeah. Internet culture. I mean, we didn't grow up with it. When the internet was first coming around for me, it was dial-up. You went and sat on the desktop.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Downloaded a picture of boobs for like seven minutes. You're like, here they come. You had to really earn your pornography back then. You'd be on like LimeWire. If you were downloading music, you'd be like, this file's corrupted. After a while, you wouldn't be able to find one that wasn't.

You'd be like, hell, I need this song, whatever. And then your parents' computer would shut down. And they'd be like, why is that computer completely fried? And you'd be like, sorry. I know. And these kids have so much access now to everything. It's a worry. That's the brilliant thing about that show is bringing it to one.

Because even all the emojis and all that sort of stuff, I was reading about those afterwards. I was learning so much. And I was like, huh, oh, would you look at that? It's bizarre. It's an interesting thing whenever you learn about playing these characters, you go into this kind of little hole of learning, and then you watch your algorithms,

and you watch everything change and the things that are recommended to you, and you watch that and you go, oh, it's so easy. You see how fragile our brains are in terms of how easily they manipulate they are in a few different inputs. And suddenly you're like down the rabbit hole. So it's an interesting thing to be aware of. Well, that's interesting. I didn't even think about that.

If you're actively researching. A white supremacist. Yeah, you're constantly kind of resetting your algorithm. Yeah, you watch different things pop up where you're like, huh, that's not in agreement with what I believe or think. That happened to me in January where I had to reset my algorithm on Instagram. It's either from several comedians I follow

or some of these off-road accounts I follow. But all of a sudden I was just seeing blatantly racist posts, which I didn't even think were on Instagram, to be honest. And I was just like, what happened? And it happened really quick. I was like, I gotta reset this. How did you reset it? You can reset your algorithm.

You just go into your settings and it'll have wipe your thing and reset your algorithm. And you can do to your settings and it'll have wipe your thing and reset your algorithm. And you can do that. Like you should probably after every roll. Ha ha ha ha. Go and reset. Okay. Let's talk about Superman.

Oh, yes. Woo, am I excited that you're in Superman. Me too. That is so exciting. Did you have to earn this one? Because I'm assuming a lot of these you've been offered. Yeah, no, I auditioned for Superman. Auditioned for Superman. Oh, did you? And then James called me and was like, how about playing Lex Luthor? And I was like a lot of these you've been offered. Yeah, no, I auditioned for Superman. Auditioned for Superman.

Oh, did you? And then James called me and was like, how about playing Lex Luthor? And I was like, yeah, okay, great. Which is interesting because I talked to James and Peter a little bit and then I read it. There was a little gut instinct where I was like, huh, I might be a better Lex. While you were reading it. I was reading the Lex scenes and I was thinking, oh, this could be fun. And then was like, oh no, don't get distracted. So then when he called me and said that, I was like, huh,

this makes more sense. So it worked out perfectly. I just imagine the bad guy's gonna have like three blockbuster scenes. The intro to the bad guy is gonna be a great scene. Hopefully. You've seen it. I haven't seen it. Oh, you have?

I have not seen it yet. Just seen a few little bits for doing ADR and stuff. And it looks epic. And I mean, the script that James wrote was fantastic. We're having him on as well. So it's gonna be a Superman week. Oh, Superman week. It's finally here. Yeah, yeah wrote was fantastic. We're having him on as well, so it's gonna be a Superman Week. Oh, Superman Week, it's finally here! Yeah, yeah, Superman Week.

Have you had him on before? No. Oh, great, you'll have fun with James. I think I messaged him on Instagram at some point, and was like, hey, cool that you're the head of DC, if there's ever a role. Yeah, why don't you put it up there? I don't usually slide up to people's DMs, but here I am.

Nice. Oh, nice! You were proactive. Yeah, which I don't normally do that. I've heard for some of these superhero movies, so much is being bet on it. I'm glad it was DMs, but here I am. Oh nice, you were proactive. Yeah, which I don't normally do that. I've heard for some of these superhero movies, so much is being bet on it, that they'll film your audition and actually show it at a theater

and they'll show multiple. Did that happen to you? I think there were screenings of different versions of combinations of cast put together. Get a little test audience. See how it plays. Yeah. I don't know if it was in front of an audience,

but we'll just, other DC and Warner Brothers people. James will probably be able to give you better answers. But yeah, they certainly put people through the ringer a little bit. Do you know who your competitors were? Well, David, who got cast. Okay. Congrats, David. I was so happy for him because genuinely,

when I met him, I met him there. And it was funny, Superman gets his powers from the sun. We were in one of these studios in LA, and I walked out from doing one of the scenes and there was like mostly shadows from how the sun was setting. But then in one patch of sunlight, David had taken a chair and sat down

and was just like enjoying the warmth of the sun. And I was like, God damn. He was born to play. I was like, look at this guy. And I met him and he embodies everything that you'd hope for that character to be. How's his physique? Brilliant.

Gorgeous. Did you guys live together? We did a little bit. Silly story. I remember I was chatting to my wife one night. She was like, it's so nice to be held by someone bigger than you. And she was like, you don't really get that, do you? And I was like, no, I guess I don't.

We were sitting there and she was like, yeah, no one's really big enough to hold you. And she was like, David could hold you. Why don't you ask him? I did. You did? And it felt warm and safe. But I felt the same thing when you held me today. And I was like, oh yeah, that's the strength I need.

That's the support I need. I was one time picked up Like a Baby by Shaquille O'Neal. And it was one of the most fun feelings I've ever had, where he put his hands under my armpits and just lifted me up like a child. Did you ask him to do this? And it was one of the most fun feelings I've ever had where he put his hands under my armpits and just lifted me up like a child. Did you ask him to do this?

No, I was walking into a premiere in Westwood and I was behind him and I had never even met him. It was again, one of these huge swings. Excuse me, I like to be the tallest person at these things. You're gonna have to leave, sir. I just say that from behind him and he turns around and then he did know who I was thank God And then he picked me up like a baby. Did he kiss you on the cheek? No, he didn't kiss me

I would have loved it if he tickled me Yeah, kiss my neck, smell my head and told me I smell so good It is a weird feeling to be like, oh, yeah, I'm a little person again. The coach of Detroit is It is a weird feeling. It's nice to be like, oh yeah, I'm a little person again. The coach of Detroit is insane. He was a player and he's enormous. He looks like a water buffalo. He's just like all traps.

And I hugged him right before the game and the playoffs. And I was telling Monica, it was such a weird feeling to think, oh, if Lions came into the arena, Dan's got it. I'm off the clock. Someone here is definitely in charge, it's not me. It was a very comforting feeling. Yeah, you feel safe.

If all hell breaks loose, Dan is the one who's supposed to go deal with it. And that's genuinely what you were thinking at that time. You were like, if lions get into the arena right now. I generally self-appoint myself the person that's gonna have to fight the lions. Interesting. As you should, your tallest.

If lions broke into the stadium, I'd be like, we're all just running right I wouldn't be like don't worry guys. I'm gonna fight. Okay. See that's a different personality That's not what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to go I got all these rewards for being tall and now here's the thousand people that I go. I'm the one It's me. I'm the one also. We're saying lions in the team You mean lions the animal not when the team comes in. That's right. The team is in the middle. The real lions have escaped. I'd get on the PA system and be like, everyone stay in your

seats, watch this. I've got it. Everybody get your cameras ready. Limb from limb and eating and I keep watching. You're going to want to run video, not pictures. I was still pretending to be asleep. They can see my spleen being pulled out of my body. Sorry. Is this some sort of art project? Do you think if you're on an airplane, because you drive cars... Oh, is this the thing about if you could land it? Yes.

If the pilot has a sea shirt, God forbid, and they say, who knows how to fly a plane? Would you offer yourself up for that? I saw this. This is like a fact that one in two men think that they could, right? My dad was a pilot. Oh, no. So you definitely think you can so no I think I probably more err on the reality of like I probably can't oh

I had one flying lesson It was really surprisingly difficult because I was like I want to learn to fly and competent in cars and bikes and things and I'm Like okay, there's so many more controls even in the tiny little airplane where I was like Oh my gosh and trimming and this and that and you're just staring at dials if they were like hey We need someone and there's no one and they're like look dude. Can you call your dad? Can he tell you what to do and I'll call him about that daddy daddy You're on FaceTime. Which button do I push? What do I do? I like to think then that perhaps it would still be a disaster because also if you gotta try and hit the runway, right?

Daddy I'm flying a commercial airliner. This is BA flight 456. It's like, what are you doing? You wanna hear how arrogant I am? I'm more afraid of having to talk in that gibberish over the CB than I am actually landing the plane. Like I can't say seven, nine are cleared for, you know, all that. Well, I think if you're stepping in,

they don't expect you to do all the radio. Sure, sure, sure, no. They're like, you are not cleared for landing. You have not done the code right. To be clear, I don't think I can land one. Like, I just think I can land one. What I think is once we've asked, are there any pilots on board and there aren't,

I do think I'm the next best option. If someone has to hear what to do and implement it, I think I'm a good pick. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I can follow instructions. That's basically my job. Yeah, but isn't it very, I mean, I guess you guys are mechanical. But we decided that actually the best person

would be the video gamer. Oh, yeah. I don't trust. OK. No, this is like sim guys who think they're fast on a track. I trust the sim guy who's landed planes on the sim, who's done like sim flying.

I'd be like, well, at least you're roughly. That's a great point. They should come over the tower and be like, hey, we got any pilots? Okay, have we got any guys who like to fly planes on video games? Exactly. None of those either.

And Dexter's like, pick me, pick me. I guess, I guess. Well, they have like a sheet they go through. Any pilot? Exactly. Any gamers? No. Any model airplane hobbyists?

Okay, back to Superman. James Gunn, one of his signature talents is pairing these sequences with perfect songs. And I guess I'm curious, are those pre-planned to the degree, does he ever play the song that would be in the movie for you when you're doing the scene? Not specifically for this, but he did send me like a piece of the score before we started filming. So I had part of the score that's for the finale, I guess, of Lex's part of the story. That I had for months before we started shooting, which was interesting. And I realize now it's just slightly psychotic behavior perhaps,

but I got into cold plunging. I'd say it was like part of the prep. I was trying to get strong and blah, blah, and all this, and I was reading and all these things, and then I was cold plunging. And I would sit in the dark in this cold plunge listening to this music, like full Blair, on repeat over and over again. And then whilst we were filming that scene,

James had that playing through the speakers on the set. I'd listened to it so many times, thinking about that moment, being in the cold water is kind of a... A torturous situation. Yeah, somewhat, but then you're kind of mind over matter. You're kind of putting your body through some sort of wall. So there's a bit of that,

and then being put into the filming scenario and having that same thing. It was interesting. That's where it started for me and I think a lot of people can relate to this. Being a kid walking with my Walkman on and you're like, I'm in a movie. Imagination starts just happening.

Oh yeah, you're sitting on the bus and you've got a sad song on, you're looking out the window. Yeah. And you're like, you start really envisioning your own experience as a movie. Yeah, you really do. Yeah, it's fun.

I think it's so standard. I think everyone does it. Like my 12 year old, she'll say to me all the time, she's kind of obsessed with this notion of the Truman Show. She's like, sometimes I think I'm in the Truman Show. And I go, I know, I used to think that all the time too. I wonder if that's like a healthy, in terms of how you're always meant to be able to like,

put yourself out of your experiences in some way to understand that. I wonder if it's like a healthy thing to imagine it like a movie. Well, I wonder if it's like a health thing to imagine it like a movie. Well, minimally, it's just interesting that this thing we've all probably, I think a lot of us have been doing for 100 years

is only 100 years old. No one in 1850 could walk around hearing music and even imagining what a movie is like. What a weird space. Yeah, but music's been around since the beginning of time. You just couldn't listen to it while you were doing something. Like you couldn't be scoring your own life.

There's no Walkmans. You might walk by some guys tooting up trombone, ding ding ding. He studied trombone as a kid. I don't remember that from last year. I don't think he does either. You just pointed me. Trombone, ding ding ding.

Xylophone. It also kind of sounds like a sex thing. Well, it is the rusty trombone. That's right. But when you follow it with ding ding ding as well. Exactly. Makes it super sexual. I was like, oh.

Oh. Feel seen. No, music. Music, I feel like, has always instigated memory or like your place in time, even though we didn't have all these other layers on top of it, which now we do. And I think that was like the initial. It's just interesting. You think of how like technology changes your brain.

The famous one is that book, Weirdest People on Planet. What's that? It's this incredible book about how weird Westerners are. Weird stands for Western educated, industrial. Rich. Rich industrial. Rich. Rich and. Democratic. Democratic.

And that the process of learning to read, which is so new really, until Martin Luther in 1492, the literacy rate was like under 1%. And then he goes on this mission to teach everyone to read so they can read the Bible. And then within decades, the numbers are going up and up and up, so you get to like nine. Well, the cognitive action of reading rewires your brain.

You lose certain things and you gain certain things. For everyone who read, their brains were structurally different. So they're like computing the world differently, all because of this technology that came out of book reading, this abstract thing we do. And then I just think, yeah, and then movies are a thing. And then for the last hundred years, I think most people daydream of themselves in a movie or some movie version of their life.

Is it the same sort of daydreaming as when you daydream about a book? The movie that you play in your mind, is it still the same sort of daydreaming? So I was just thinking the same thing as I was saying, is like, yeah, we're people reading Little Women, and they were walking to the store, and they're like, oh, I'm one of the Little Women.

Maybe you put yourself in books. I think more so with books. You are at the center of a book when you're reading and it's whatever third person or first person, it's you. I mean, with like a mask on, obviously, but you're walking through the world. In a movie, there's some separation. So I think with books, probably even more so. Yeah, people probably just thought of their lives as a novel.

Yeah. Oh yeah. I'm the lead character of this novel. Is that where that lingo of like the end of this chapter, the beginning of the next, is that where it comes from? Maybe. Right, just another chapter of your life.

Okay, now let's talk about the people who have come before you. Gene Hackman, as Lex Luthor, not just in general, everyone that's been born before 1990. It's gonna take a while. Yeah, Monica, get the list. Everyone born before 1990. Okay, so? a while. Yeah, Monica get the list, remember when it was born before 1990. Okay, so?

Yeah, did you see that movie as a kid or did you have to watch it as an adult in preparation for this? I'd seen it as a kid, but I watched it as an adult again. I love Gene, I mean, what an actor. Come on. He's given some of the all time performances. I was just watching Hoosiers again the other night.

No one gets angry like Gene Hackett. He's the best. One of my favorite films is Unforgiven and Clint directed Gene in that. We screened it whilst we're filming during number two. We ran it out of the theater and watched that. Oh, really? On the big screen and watching him in that again

was just magical. All time great. Yeah. OK, now shaving your head. Do you have any fear, and it's now compounded by this blonde thing. Do you have any fear when you shave your head like, I wonder how much is going to grow back?

No, I shaved my head before for my max. It grew back. And now you're dying now. Every time I had to do this, I, I wonder how much is going to grow back? No, I shaved my head before for my max, it grew back. And now you're dying now. Every time I had to do this, I'm like, how much is going to come back? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I guess I'm more conscious of that now. Yeah, where I'm like, ugh. When they're putting all the chemicals.

I'm like, is this going to kill? All the pigments. Yeah, what are we going to be dealing with at the end of this? The fear is actually settling in more now here talking to you guys. You can probably see the fear on my face more and more. That's what we do here, talking to you guys. You can probably see the fear on my face more and more. Uh. That's what we do here, you know? We're truth tellers.

Yeah, when you have me on in two years' time, I bring up another phone, and you'll be like, remember when you had hair? Remember that? Remember that? Look how different we all look. And I'll be like. You remember your last hairdo?

Yeah. Oh my God, did you see Friendship? No, what's this? The Paul Rudd, Kate Mara. Oh, I haven't seen this. Tim Robinson. Tim Robinson. Tim Robinson movie. It's just now out.

Do you watch it, think you should leave? That comedy show on Netflix? It's like a sketch show. Oh, it's so funny. You're out to watch. You've got to. It is so funny, so bizarre. He's a one of one comedian.

Anyway, they have a new movie and Paul Rudd is wearing, I mean, it's a spoiler, I guess, a toupee. But you don't know until towards the end of the movie, it falls off. It's just so wild and bonkers and it falls off and he looks crazy. And I did think, oh wow, so much of him is his hair. Yeah.

It really is doing a lot we take for granted. Building the pressure, yeah. Your companion, this is getting worse by the second. There's very few things you can feel bad for boys for. But this is one, it's like you're a boy and you're just like, wow, TikTok, when is this, you know. Well, for women too, it thins out. It thins out, yeah.

Women generally don't have male pattern baldness. Generally. Generally. So you gotta get rosemary oil, it's the thing, right? I'll do that. I'm in a full-fledged battle to keep my hair. I think that's something. I have a topical I'm putting on night and evening.

Probably just rosemary oil. Twice a day. And night and evening. I do it at 7 p.m. and at 9 p.m. What's your emotional attachment to all of it in terms of I'm fearful it's not gonna last forever or you've been doing it for so fucking long, you do have the confidence it's gonna last forever,

do you have that rumination? How many days off from a movie before you start panicking or is that past? They're still that like, and they're still very much the thing of, oh, I've got a lot to prove. I feel like I'm just at the beginning of like, let's grind. Let's get to work in a fun way. But also after doing Nosferatu and The Order and Dura Back to Back, the end of that year I sat there, it was my birthday,

and I don't always do this, but I sat around and I was just contemplating. Normally, everything's happening so quick that I don't. I sat there and I was like, oh, this is kind of exactly where you wanted to be 10 years ago. You could have said you worked with those three directors back to back. That's prime, what you wanted, career-wise. So great, proud of that. But then also, where do you build on?

What's the next steps? I'm just putting my legs up, not because I'm a bad guest, but just because my legs don't... Oh yeah, because you've been here so long. No, no, my knee is just so because it's busted. Oh, we should have propped it up earlier. Do we need to rub your legs? I've got my sleeve on.

Let's get those cumbersome pants off you, first of all. I brought some of my ointment and oil with me. Get you out of those restrictive pants. I've got a plane to land. Oh. Get the mic nice and close so people can listen. Nicholas, I adore you. I adore you.

I do hope we end up on a race track at some point. We've got to. I haven't been on bikes for a while. Let's deal with your leg first. Well, we'll do cars. Now's probably not the time to be back on a bike. Might as well give yourself a second. Take it easy. I'm happy in a car.

Let's do cars. Father's Day. Father's Day. Our Father's Day motorsports. Maybe we should do like a Lemons race or something. Yes. That would be fantastic. Superman comes out.

July 11th. 7-Eleven. 7-Eleven. Can't be an accident. Everyone's like, we gotta get that date. 7-Eleven. Everyone knows 7-Eleven. July 11th, everyone.

Go see Superman and I cannot wait to see How to Rob a Bank. Thanks. You plus David Leitch. What could be better? Come back again. I will. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. I sure hope there weren't any mistakes in that episode,

but we'll find out when my mom, Mrs. Monica, comes in and tells us what was wrong. So we're Zoomies today. Yeah. We're Zoom recording. Summertime Zooms. And you are in Nashville. You made your way there.

I am. Do you want me to spin my camera around so you can see what looks out my window? Yeah. Okay, here we go. I'm doing a bad job. Oh, it looks so nice. Looking out my window. Well, you can't even see, can you see the lake?

You can't even see. I can't see the lake, I see a lot of trees. Sure, that's good, trees are good. Did you have to curb your good time last night so that you could wake up so early? No, I was out late last night, which I was unexpected. I don't really stay out late anymore. No, no, you're, you're, you know,

this year you're a middle-aged woman. How dare you? I'm still early. Actually, that reminds me that on, maybe it was on an armchair anonymous. I can't remember. I said something like, I look young. And you said, you were like, do you?

And I don't know if you were just nagging me, but we had a tip about that. And then since then, I've been carted basically every single place I go. Really? People think you're 20 or less. So I went to Cookbook, which is a very cute grocery store here in Los Angeles,

and I bought a bottle of wine. And she, the girl asked for my ID, and then she looked at it for a minute, and then she gave it back. And like 30 seconds later, she was, she looked at me and she said, you look so young. Oh, really? And I like, and she said, you look so young. Oh really? And she was kind of mad.

I think maybe she thought it was a fake idea. I don't know. She was like, you look 20. And I said, oh well, I'm at the age where I will take it. And I said, how old are you? And she said 25. Oh wow. old are you? And she said, 25. Oh, wow. And she thought she was older than me.

Oh, wow. Let's go back to your night last night, because you had a late one and I want to hear what was happening. So it's our, in a couple of days is our friend's birthday, Anna. Oh, okay, great. How old is she turning?

Jesus is age 33. We went to Atwater. Atwater is a new place I've been going to a lot. McCalls is there, a butcher that used to be down the street from us that moved to Atwater, which is the bane of my existence. Heartbreaking for me, yeah. So sad.

Best ground beef in the city, maybe 50% fat, I'm guessing. I mean, it's so fatty, which I love. You can't, the grocery store, they're not gonna push it beyond 20% fat. And I don't wanna get sued by McCall's, but I will say, I think they're in the high 50s. And you can taste that. And they have like farmer's market,

vegetables and fruits and sauces and treats. They have all kinds of things there. I love it there. Anyway, there's also all these cute stores on the street and little restaurants and bars. And so we went to this outdoor little restaurant and we hung out there. And then we went to another one. Pub crawl? I guess it turned into a little bit of a pub crawl. The second location, I defined as rustic.

That's a word I took from Callie, which means kind of shitty. Yeah, charming shitty. Right, but okay, so does everyone consider rustic that? Yeah, rustic is definitely shitty but charming. Ye olde rustic inn. You wouldn't name your bar ye olde rustic inn, like ye olde shithole.

They're saying like, yeah, it's a fucking dump, but hey, it's got some charm. You're gonna have a good time here. Ye olde rustic inn. I thought rustic meant like woodsy. Like I have a very, I thought it meant like a cabin is rustic in. I thought rustic meant like woodsy. Like I have a very, I thought it meant like a cabin is rustic. Yes.

But I thought rustic is like equivalent to a cabin. I didn't know it meant like charming shithole. Instead of saying it's a shithole, you go like, oh, it was rustic. I know, but that's, but so it's a euphemism then. Yeah, for dumb, but implicit in that euphemism is it has to have some charm or it would just be a lie. Right, but I didn't know that.

So one time Callie and I went to a hotel and there were some problems with the hotel. It was a nice hotel, but there were like some issues with it and she kept calling it rustic. And I thought it was very funny. And I also thought it was a total misuse of the word, but turns out I was wrong. I guess I owe her an apology. No, no, no, you are right. She was making a great joke. If it's supposed to be nice and it's rustic, no, no, no, no. If it's a dump, but you find yourself very charmed by it and going, oh, I want to go back,

even though it's kind of a dump, that's rustic. If a Four Seasons doesn't, the commode's not working in the Four Seasons, you can't say it's rustic. You go, oh, it was a fucking terrible Four Seasons. They need new management. Right? You clear now on rustic? Yeah. Okay.

Okay, I still have some questions about it, but overall I get it more. Anyway, I was saying that that place was rustic, but now I think I was using it correctly. Yeah, charming and not nice. So we went to one rustic location quickly. I didn't really partake there. And then we went to dinner down the street. We didn't leave there until 10, 10.

Oh, really? I don't know if that's terribly late, Monica, for a Saturday night. I'm gonna open this door. Maybe that'll give me more bandwidth. To me felt really late, because, you know, I go to bed, I get in bed quite early.

But it's a, it's a ding ding ding actually. We went to the restaurant called Spina, which came up for our really deep cut listeners in the Chris Pine episode. He brought up Spina. He said it was a really good restaurant and it is. Oh, is that the Italian place and Rob went and Rob was like, oh yeah, it is Dynamite. Yeah, it was great.

I'm jealous, I wanna go. I should have gone. So I'm gonna suggest something that, here's my hunch. So we haven't seen each other in, let's see, what day did I leave? We're on Sunday. And I left on a Wednesday night after we recorded. So a week and a half.

Yeah, nine days or so or whatever, 10 days. My hunch is that my 10 days feels four times longer than your 10 days. Do you feel like the last 10 days off kind of blew by or no? I do feel like it's moving too fast. Yeah, and have you been panicked at all about that? A little, I put an out of office on my email,

which is a new thing I tried. Uh-huh, how's that going? It's only okay, because I still check it and I respond to things that need to. I just like the idea that you have an office, that there's an office you're normally at that you're not at now. By the way, I'm gonna email you

just so I can experience the automatic reply. I think today was the last, I think it ended today. Oh, it did. Yeah, but maybe I'll try it again. Okay, so for my 10 days, I feel like it's been about a month and a half. In fact, yesterday I was saying to the girls, oh my God, guys, how long ago were we in Idaho, which was technically four days ago, but it feels like two weeks ago.

Great. So what happened in Idaho? So we drove up. Well, we left. Kristin was in Vegas doing like a speaking engagement. And she was supposed to fly home Wednesday night. And then we were going to leave super early Thursday morning. But I decided the girls were anxious. I was anxious. So we just left Wednesday. We drove the bus to Vegas to my father-in-law's.

We have a dog with us. Now, Frank has joined the trip, right? Whiskey didn't make the cut. He's at home with Peggy, his girlfriend. That's fine. That's great for him, because he is in love with Peggy. And Frank was a pretty good boy, no complaints there. I did get into a major traffic jam

of right when I entered Nevada, if I'm remembering correctly, and we did about two hours at 11 p.m. just kind of sitting in the bus and traffic, rough start, doesn't matter. Went to my father-in-law's house. We went inside, we slept for about four hours. I was completely ashamed of myself because we were on like a Murphy bed that my feet went off the end of. And it was quite warm in that office that we were sleeping in. And I just, I really couldn't sleep.

So I just ended up waking up very early on Thursday morning and just got the bus ready and was ready to go. And I was ashamed of myself because I realized when Aaron and I were on our road trip after high school, I would have blown a donkey to have that bed in that room because we were living in the car. And I realized this is how spoiled and soft I've become,

that I can't even sleep unless the temperatures right in my feet aren't hanging off the bed. Anyways, who cares? Yeah. Got on the road, probably the best trip we've had in the bus, there were a single issue was the passenger window broke off from the contraption that holds it shut.

So I was pulling over every few hours to reduct tape it because we'd be driving down the highway and the window would just fly open. But that's light. That was no sweat. Got into Swan Valley, Idaho at a very reasonable time, I think nine o'clock that night on Thursday. And then this year's trip was different because it was cold, which was shocking because we had just left Vegas where it was 115. And then it was like 60 degrees the first day, then 50, you know, in June. Kind of wild.

But what was lovely. That is weird. Yes. But what was lovely is I normally have to go whitewater rafting with the girls, which I've now done four or five times. And it's like an hour drive there, the trip down the river is a couple hours, and then it's an hour drive back.

And I was so exhausted from our previous month of, you know, nose of the grindstone. And so you couldn't really do many activities, which was such a blessing. So I took a nap every day, which was heaven. I had my new electric dirt bike, my Stark, which is so amazing, I had run it. So I would just zip around on my dirt bike

and lots of time chit chatting and just being social and hanging out. And it was just the most lovely relaxing version of the trip. It was completely different and everyone agreed. Everyone was like, oh, it's kind of drowsy and lazy version, but everyone there, you know how it's in the ethos sometimes?

No, the ether where everyone that had come to the trip had also seemingly had the same month leading up to it. Like everyone I ran to was just like, oh my god, I barely made it to this trip. Everyone was napping. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was great. How was our best boy? Oh, best boy was very exhausted. He's maybe who I'm referencing the most. He looked like he maybe just barely made it up there alive. But he was lovely. Well, he's doing the Lord's work. He is, he's out there doing the Lord's work.

Have you ever participated in a silent disco? No, but I know about them. Okay, I'm gonna outwil Speck. I think you're generally supposed to protect the anonymity of who's on that trip, but I'm gonna outwil Speck. I think you're generally supposed to protect the anonymity of who's on that trip, but I'm gonna outwil Speck, the director. Very sweet, hysterical, fun, flirty. He pined over his, oh, so the way a silent disco works is everyone wears headphones

and there's three channels on the headphones. And when you, and there's three different colors. So there's red, green, and blue. And you put playlists on each of those channels. And if you're dancing and you don't like the song, then you flick, but you're also like monitoring everyone else that's dancing.

Because if you see people going extra hard and they're on red, you're like, well, fuck, I gotta get over to red. So Will Speckhead timed over his playlist, I think for a month leading up to the silent disco, in the way Jess would, right? Like hoping everyone's gonna love it. There's some song he wants to introduce everyone to.

There's some new tracks. You know, he's very hip to new tracks. And it was just so fucking fun. Those are so fun. And then when you walk out onto, cause we were dancing outside, it was just so fucking fun. Those are so fun. And then when you walk out onto, cause we were dancing outside, it was cold, but we were dancing outside and you walk outside

and there's just 30 people going berserk and it's dead quiet. All you hear is like footsteps on the ground of people. I know. It's insanity. I feel like there's something about it that kind of like freaks me out. I already guessed that for you, it might be Dicey.

I mean, I think it's a beautiful thing. God, I sound like such a curmudgeon because I famously don't like dogs and now I'm gonna famously not like dancing, which is like two of the things I famously don't like dogs, and now I'm gonna famously not like dancing, which is like two of the things that every single person loves. But it is weird that you brought it up now

because Jess and I were at a store yesterday and we were telling the guy that we were about to go to Atwater, and he asked us if we had ever been to this one bar, I guess it's a bar. And I said, no. And he said, it's awesome. Cause there's a huge dance floor and like people are dancing.

And Jess was like, oh yes. Like I wanna do that. I really wanna go there. And I kept my mouth shut, but I was like, I'm not going. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is, yeah, I understand. But what if it was the pod? It's an old wound, it's an old wound.

It's an old wound, but it's two different things. I think you're thinking of just dancing with strangers, which is one thing. Now imagine our pod has a dance party at Amy's birthday party. That's a different experience. Yeah, it is. And I am happy to dance with people I love,

but I still, although God, I used to booty bump, but booty bump was different. I actually think this is kind of like my, you know, my stance that holding hands is actually more intimate than anal. Than anal, yeah, that's on your headstone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, this is kind of similar,

where I feel like dancing, regular dancing, is more vulnerable than booty bumping. Cause everyone knows how to do that. Like it's easy and it's kind of crass. There's no vulnerability in it. Yes, you've got a persona going, Booty Bump MLP. Yeah, that's me. That's my rap name.

Really quick, you could host one of these silent discos in a nursing home at night and no one would wake up. That's what's so funny about it. But the highlight for me was both my girls danced for four hours, right? So like one in the morning. Oh, fun. Both my girls can dance, which I love, and I danced with them so much. And at the end of the night, I just thought, oh, God, I hit the lottery.

I like I have two kids that love to dance like I do. And as a family, we're a dancing family. That's nice. Yeah, it was just so sweet. Lincoln in particular, not a shocker because we're so similar, you just couldn't get, I gave up. I wanted to go back and go to sleep at one point and Lincoln

wanted to keep going hard and yeah, it just tickled me to no end. Yeah, that's fun. Yeah. Speaking of this, I feel like it's, um, you know, obviously the reason that I find it sort of uncomfortable. Well, I did not grow up in a dancing family. So that's part of it. But also I don't like attention.

I don't like people looking at me. Yeah. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. Let's take a minute to thank our presenting sponsor Audible. With Audible, the leading audio entertainment app, it's easy to discover new stories and ideas while going about your day. Yeah and with over a million audiobooks, Audible originals, and more, it's basically impossible to run out of things to listen to. Plus there's just something about audio storytelling that

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maps, and mutiny. What more could you need? That sounds really fun. I'm more of a psychological thriller girl myself. Yeah, and mutiny. What more could you need? That sounds really fun. I'm more of a psychological thriller girl myself. Yeah, you're dark. Yeah, I'm dark and I'm broody. And I've been hearing all about the author, Freedam McFadden, and I love that I can listen

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Sign up for a free 30-day Audible trial and your first audio book is free. Visit audible.com slash DAX. That's audible.com slash DAX. ["Audible's Theme Song"] Ironically, it's so strange, whatever, but this reminds me, I want to talk about something because we haven't done a fact check since our Brad Pitt episode came out. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. First of all, did you see it opened at $140 million?

I didn't, that's awesome. Wow. Makes me so happy. So the episode came out. Lot of people said they really liked it, which is super fun. Obviously it was fun for us to release that and give that to the arm cherries. I did not anticipate, and I guess very dumb of me,

but I just wasn't paying, I just didn't think about this, that this would take on a life of its own. And there were so many headlines about the episode, well, specifically saying that he talked about his divorce, which he did not talk about his episode, well, specifically saying that he talked about his divorce, which he did not talk about his divorce, and it was really making me feel crazy. I was like, oh my God, oh my God.

Like no wonder people of that level, like don't do interviews and don't do things because people just make up lies. Oh yeah, headlines were saying that we discussed that and we didn't. Yeah, and I thought the same thing. I was like, he probably can't answer a question like what his favorite hamburger is

without them extrapolating what they want him to talk about. Yes, yes. If he says he likes In-N-Out, it's like, well, because Angelina notoriously likes McDonald's. Right. He has, they didn't get along about that and they got a divorce.

Like, it's so wild. And what I will say, I respect him so much because even though I was shocked, I know he wasn't shocked. He's like, this is what happens. This is what happens every time. This is my life. And we do have people who come on,

who are very concerned about what will be said, you know, after the fact of the conversation, who often like, it won't be, it won't be talked about, you know? And this man is definitely gonna get talked about, and he didn't tell us anything. He didn't tell us to cut out anything. He was so chill. He was like, you guys do your thing.

It's your show. Yeah, he didn't care at all. Like he, yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of behind the scenes talking to people's publicists and dealing with a bunch of stuff. And there was none of that with this, the most high profile guest we've ever had on.

And I, not only did I appreciate it, it made me, I was like, God, he just like, he just knows. He knows what's gonna happen and he just decides, I guess, like, oh, well. I think he- He like has a calmness about it. I think he has full acceptance of what his life is, which we did kind of talk about,

which is like, I think you fight for a long time and it makes you uncomfortable. And at some point you go, Oh, I'm going to drive myself bananas or I, I just have to not give a fuck anymore. And it seems like he is at that point. Yeah, I know. I really, I think it's awesome. But what I wanted to say is, so yeah, there were all these headlines, all these

things, which were like making me feel like I already was like, ah, I don't like that. And I even had like our publicists tell one of the magazines to tell them. And they did remove the headline, which I thought was nice. But then I saw it a hundred other places and I was like, oh my God, this is too much.

But then I was listening to a podcast that I listened to, a pop culture podcast. I just, it's in my rotation. I enjoy it. I found it a couple months ago. And they start talking about the episode. And I, as soon as it started to come up, I like got like sweaty.

I got so anxious about what they were going to say. And it was so interesting because this podcast has like a host and then guest hosts every week. And it was interesting because she started off by saying, I've never listened to the show before, have you? And then the guest said, unfortunately, yes. And I was like, oh no, oh my God. Of course, I feel defensive, my feelings are hurt. And then they proceed to talk about the episode for a while. What's so funny to me is pretty much absolutely

everything they're saying is is Positive uh-huh Except they then because of that because I think overall they like liked it They had to just insert jabs like Like but I just to say I don't really like the show, but, you know, or I don't like them. They never elaborated on what their issue with the show was.

We're obnoxious. Oh, we're obnoxious. Yeah. But not what version of we are obnoxious. But what version of obnoxious are we? They didn't specify. They didn't say. OK. But they just were saying like. I don't know. it was just very interesting because I did think, oh, you can't just say you liked it.

You have to say something negative. And I think people feel like if they're just positive or kind or whatever, then they're like dumb. Like I worry that that's where we live right now. We're like, if you are only saying positive things, they're not critical, they're worried that like, they're not critical thinkers. This was like a podcast I put on to go to bed.

Big mistake. I'm now up for like an hour and a half, just laying there, kind of spiraling about this. And I DM'd the host. I don't regret it. I don't regret it, but it didn't make me feel the way I thought it was gonna make me feel. How did you think it was gonna make you feel?

I thought it was gonna make me really. How did you think it was gonna make you feel? I thought it was gonna make me really feel like, what's the word, not like, like I caught you. Uh huh, uh huh, uh huh, gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. And I didn't really do that. I mean, I did feel, and I do feel, that you don't know who's listening ever to your show, to your product, to whatever you're doing,

whatever you're putting out there. And I think it's important when you're speaking openly and when you have platforms that you do consider that. Like, is this something you would say if that person heard it? Mm-hmm, yeah. And that's how we, it's literally what you learn in kindergarten.

Yeah, if you wanna say it to their face, don't say it at all. Yeah, anyway, so I just said, hi, you know, I listened to your show, I like your show. It was wild to hear our interview come up. I wish I could unhear some of those things, but overall, like thank you for listening, whatever. And then she responded very nicely.

Yeah, I just, that was that. You said it's a pop culture podcast, right? Yes, yes, yes. So for me, like pop culture, anything pop culture podcast, right? Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, so for me, like pop culture, anything pop culture means gossip. And I'm not shitting on gossip overall because I think gossip in general gets a very negative, kind of, you know, it's a pejorative in a way.

But I mean, there is a huge utility to gossip. We've talked about it. Like when you're in a tribe of a hundred people and you're gossiping about the leader who's mistreating people, it's how we regulate. So I don't think it's, you know, it's not useless or should never be done. But I don't think the ethos or edict of culture today

is to be negative, but gossip is. Gossip is inherently catty. You can't just bring up, you have to say her shoes didn't match her outfit. You might be in love with her and worshiping her, but like gossip, the nature of it is like, and now I'm gonna say something shitty, because that's what gossip is.

In my mind, I'm taking full responsibility for this. My hunch is that if she didn't like the show, it wasn't because of you, it was probably because of me. Or at least in my mind, I'm taking off all the responsibility for that. You should, I'm relieving you of any responsibility for the- Well, that's not how I look at it. Obnoxious factor.

Whatever. I said that, it made me, I felt kind of good for like 14 seconds and then that was over. And then I thought, oh, I guess I just feel really exposed. Sure, sure, sure. Like we put something out that a lot of people saw and heard and have an opinion on now. And it felt scary.

It felt very, I guess, out of control. You know, I love our listeners so much. So I guess I'm putting them in their own category, our consistent listeners. But it did make me think, oh, I really like this job for the job itself. I really am not in it for us putting it out. I don't like that part, actually.

That part's scary. And even when people are being positive, it's still like, oh, but they heard it. I don't know, I don't know, it's scary. And even when people are being positive, it's still like, oh, but they like hurt it. I don't know, I don't know. It's weird. Well, it's inherently vulnerable to go, okay, everyone, go ahead and listen. I mean, that's just, I think.

Yeah, because I protect myself so much from it. I don't look at comments, I don't, but this was, it just, I think that was it. It's like, I'm very active about not taking in any of that. I know it's out there, but I don't, it doesn't exist if I'm not seeing it. But this just like landed, I couldn't even help it. It's something that I listened to on my own.

And it found me. And it was really strange. But you were just admiring Pitt, right? I know, I aspire to be like him. Yeah, so weirdly maybe the universe put this whole thing, right? Like it's an extreme example. Like this guy has to deal with the whole country that read those headlines thinks he was talking about that.

It wasn't, and somehow he's just like, yeah, and what can I do? And I'm still gonna be me and be radical in movies and look sweet driving race cars and whatever, cause I wanna do that. Be so hot. You know, I was even thinking while we were just talking, I'm almost tempted to start rubbing my head like this

cause it was so cute the way he would circle his shaved head. He did touch his head a lot. I thought I also thought it was so cute and so cute and hot. And a lot of people in the comments thought it was like every someone said every time he rubbed his head and there was like fire signs. And it's like his power is he's so powerful, like just rubbing his head. We're like, oh, my God, like, I don't even know what we want, like him to rub our head that way, or just he's being sensual with his own body and we want to rub his head like that.

I think it's more like, well, I couldn't get away with that. Like he's doing something people can't get away with. Yeah, the shaved head. Let's start with a shaved head. So few dudes can pull that off. I think some good takeaways were that I did realize that I like the process of it more than the result, which I think is important. Yeah, and healthy. It'd be bad if it was reversed. If you're like, well, I hate this, but I love the reaction. Exactly. Yes. And it made me feel that this is not to sound like self-righteous because this just happens to be what we've decided

to do on this show, but I'm happy that our show isn't about that, isn't about breaking things down and tearing, you know, having to say something negative. Like I'm glad it's not. Yeah, yeah. And I'm, yeah, so. It was great, I loved it, I loved it. You know, it's all directly proportional to the attention.

So it's like, I'm delighted so many people listen to our show. And yeah, a big handful of them were mad he was on our show, but it's just all like, it's a one-to-one. You bring in more folks and then you get more voices and I guess it's worth it to me, you know? I agree. I was mad about headlines.

I was just feeling very protective of him, which is hysterical. Like he needs me to look out for him. Well, I felt that too. Yeah. It's just about the principle. It's not about him specifically. Well, let's do some facts.

Oh, I love facts. Let's do some. Superman. Oh, this is incredible, because last night I went to the movies and we saw the trailer for the first time in the cinema for Superman. And did it look so fun?

It looks awesome. Ooh! Yeah. I can't wait. I'm a little mad we had Superman week. Why? And we didn't get to see the movie. Oh.

Like we got to see F1. I know, but you're being greedy. I am. Yeah. But if they do a whole week, I feel obligated to have seen the movie. Yeah. And I just want to.

I really want to It's crazy. He's so hot with a bald head. He's so hot What a dick No, any guy can just shave a nice guy That's why it's like anyone who can just shave their head out of nowhere and still be hot It's remember the first time he came on and he told that hilarious story about when he was dating Jennifer Lawrence And he got food poisoning while she was, she had booked the Silver Linings playbook

and was like in the other room talking to Bradley and while he was like puking and sweating. Oh, that's right, I forgot about that. It's such a good story. Oh, cutie pie. I was thinking when we had him on, cause of course it popped up that he had dated her. It's in his Wikipedia.

And then I thought, what's going on with Jennifer Lawrence? She's married, she has a kid. But was she acting? Yeah, she was just at Cannes. She what? She took a break, right? Well, I think kids.

She was in every movie, and she's so incredible. Oh, she's so good. Yeah, she has a new movie that premiered at Cannes that a lot of people are talking about, so I'm sure she'll be in the circuit for the awards. Well, get her on, Monica. Come on, Jen. Do you think I can text Nicholas,

who doesn't text me back, to text her, his ex-girlfriend? I think you should probably not. Yeah, that's probably a better way in. Okay, some facts. What years was Nicholas nominated for the Golden Globes? He thinks the first year was COVID and the next year was the boycotted year. 2021 nominee, best performance by an actor

in a TV series musical comedy, right? 2022, same thing. He was right. He really got screwed on both occasions. Wow, poor guy. How did Peter the third of Russia die in real life? Peter the third of Russia died at 34 under mysterious circumstances.

Some say he was assassinated while behind bars. Some say he was assassinated, but not behind bars. Others say it was suicide. Regardless, most believe Catherine was behind it. Of course they think that. Good for her. The official cause of death was a severe attack of hemorrhoidal colic. Ay, yai, yai.

That sounds like it's combining hemorrhoids and cholera. Yeah, but colic, you know colic. When you're a baby, you get that. Yeah. He was a baby? He Benjamin Buttoned and became a baby. Okay. But what could be worse than dying from diarrhea

while you have hemorrhoids? That sounds like a uniquely twisted. No, colic isn't diarrhea. It's not, it's just gas pains? No, no, it's like basically agitation. Like they're just crying nonstop. But I think it's like basically agitation. They're just crying nonstop. But I think it's-

Is it gastrointestinal? Yeah, I do think it's GI derived. Oh really, let me look. Okay, characterized by excessive inconsolable crying in a healthy infant, often defined by the rule of three, crying for more than three hours a day for more than three days a week and more than three weeks. While the exact cause remains unknown,

it is a common condition that usually resolves on its own by three to four months of age. After they cry themselves out. Oh, it says symptoms, symptoms, okay. Clenched fist and curled up legs. Okay. Oh, these poor babies. Reddening of the face, probably because of the crying.

Yeah. Tense bloated belly, but I think, probably because of the crying. Yeah. Tense bloated belly, but I think that's because of the crying. Wait, crying makes your belly bloated? Yeah. I think GI stuff makes your belly bloated. All right. Okay.

Passing gas or having a bowel movement might offer temporary relief. All right, fine, you might be right. I feel like it's related to your- But nobody's saying that. I just know that I was colicky. I couldn't have anything, which is why we went from formula to Carol syrup.

Somehow that was related to my colickiness. Sure, I mean, yeah, because that made you not cry all the time. But maybe because I wasn't having an upset stomach. But don't you think that would really make you have an upset stomach? Carol syrup? Yes.

No, I think you can't possibly get an upset stomach from Carol syrup. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. It's like inert. It's just calories. But it's sugar. Sugar isn't good for you. No, but if you beat his butt cherry red.

I think my dad was beating my butt cherry red sometimes. Oh, he wasn't. Yeah, he lost it. I know, I was just saying good things about him, but he did, he- He spanked you? Yeah, we would get into power struggles. Not when you were a baby.

When I was a baby, yeah. I would jump off, this was where my mother would have to intervene. I would jump off the deck. How old were you? At our house, two, and it was a baby. I would jump off, this was where my mother would have to intervene. I would jump off the deck. How old were you? At our house, two. And it was a really tall deck. And he kept telling me not to.

Yeah, you can't, you break your legs. He'd spank me and then he'd put me down and I would look at him according to my mother, this is my memory, and I would say, don't you pank me. And then I would run, I'd look at him and run and jump directly off. Right after he spankank me. And then I would run, I'd look at him and run and jump directly off right after he spanked me. And then he would grab me and spank me.

And he put me down and I'd say, don't, you pank me. And my mom would have to intervene because this cycle would go on forever. Like I would not, and he wouldn't quit. It started at two. We were locked in that battle. I don't know what he was supposed to do. I mean, I would have just be like, go break your leg.

That's better than me beating you. That is not true. Me beating you? Was it like, it's probably like that. No, my mom would- And not to defend. No, no, no, no. Now you're making me defend.

My mom will say she did, it would go too far. Well, yeah, because you're making him go nuts. Yeah, the two-year-olds making the adult. Yeah, I find, look, I do- I'm sympathetic to what he did. I don't think it's the right, I think we can both agree that's not the right way. You can't beat your children.

And when you recognize your kid, it's on you as an adult, when you recognize your kid will die in the fire, you can't then push them in the fire. But you also, but that's the opposite in his head. He's like, this kid is going to die. No, he's like, I gotta break this kid. Are you sure?

He was probably scared, Dax, that you were gonna hurt yourself. He was definitely afraid for my safety. Yeah. There's no question. And he felt out of control. Yes, and so he decided to spank me a lot. That's bad. And he, as the adult, should have seen,

oh, this kid won't quit. One of us has to quit in this scenario. He's not going to. Every time I spank him, like beyond the pail, he then looks at me and jumps off. But do you think you jumped off regardless of the spanks? Like, what was he to do? Well, no, no, I was in a power struggle with him.

And I was saying, don't spank me, I'm gonna keep doing this. And I kept doing this. And as the adult, you'd have to go, okay, so he's never gonna stop. Am I gonna stop or am I gonna spank him for the next three hours? And that was on him at that point.

Now, I knew he was only 24 years old. Yes, and of course spanking is bad. That's like obvious. So let's take that off the table. But I do understand the instinct of how do we, oh God. Stop him from hurting himself. Yeah, he should have tied you down. When you're in a power struggle with somebody

and you fully acknowledge they're never gonna quit. That's right. And you're smarter than an adult. Yes. You gotta be the one to quit. You have to leave. That's a boundary. They're not gonna stop.

You have to leave. But he is your dad and you were too. So this gets more complicated. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, Collic. Yeah, so he died. When did Nicholas do Rebel in the Rye? Year and age?

2017 when he was 27, but filming started the year prior so he was 26 or 29. Nine years ago. Yeah. Oh, what is the Bhagavad Gita quote that he referred to? Okay. You have the right to work, but for the work sake only. You have no right to the fruits of work.

Desire for the fruits of work must never be your motive in working. Never give way to laziness either. Okay, extended version. Perform every action with your heart fixed on the supreme Lord. Renounce attachment to the fruits. Be even tempered in success and failure, for it is the evenness of temper which is meant by yoga. That's kind of what we were talking about.

Work done with anxiety about results is far inferior to work done without such anxiety. In the calm of self surrender, seek refuge in the knowledge of Brahma. They who work selfishly for results are miserable. That's basically the Hindu like Bible. It's the closest thing to them. They don't have one, but that's like,

that's the religious text. And it's a long conversation between two people. Did Nicholas Cage get Patricia Arquette, a black Orchid, an autograph from JD Sounder as a condition for marriage? Oh my God, great. Patricia said in an interview with The New Yorker during Severance interviews that she met Cage in an LA deli, but wouldn't go out with him

unless he obtained unattainable objects for her. After the list was completed, she was supposed to marry him. He started getting close to finishing the list before they even went on a date. The list included a Salinger autograph, which he got. It also included a black orchid from the jungles of Peru or Brazil.

He completed this task, but it was actually a spray painted orchid. He cheated a little bit. I'm glad this isn't completely made up in my mind. Yeah. Great. I wanna know, if we ever interview him, we gotta find out how he got Salinger's autograph.

Yeah, exactly. Do you think he has some like... Psychosexual? No, like some masochistic qualities, cause it's kind of masochistic. It's like, go do these, you go get these things from me. Oh, sub? Yeah.

I don't think so. I'll ask. Okay, ask him that. Are you a sub? How rare is a black orchid? Black orchids are unique because in nature, plants rarely bloom in black. True black orchid flowers do not exist in nature.

Black orchids were created by geneticists by crossing three species black orchid flowers do not exist in nature. Black orchids were created by geneticists by crossing three species of orchid. They are also not truly black. They have maroon, dark purple, and blue pigments. Does rosemary oil help with hair growth? Rosemary oil is believed to encourage hair regrowth like Rogaine does and to prevent hair loss. It contains compounds that may have antioxidants, anti-inflammatory and anti-microbial properties, support wound healing, promote nerve growth and improve circulation. More research is needed to confirm this.

Okay, I'll take a jug of it. Oh yeah, you could try it. Yeah, add it to my 70 minute routine at night. Yeah, well that's it for Nicholas Hole. We love him, I can't wait for next round. Yeah. I'm charmed every time, butterflies every time. Bye.

Love you. Bye. Love you. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondry.com slash survey.