Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Part 1: Monica and Jess Love Boys with Dax Shepard

Episode Date: February 14, 2020

In Part 1: Monica and Jess Love Boys with Dax Shepard, M and J sit down with the Armchair Expert. Dax knows Monica and Jess better than anyone and he uses his previous knowledge to help diagnose individual and collective dating patterns. He asks Jess about addiction, his propensity for sex, “dating” rituals and he asks why Jess isn’t leading with his superpower: personality. He talks to Monica about her tendency to overanalyze, her pattern of wanting people she can’t have and not being attracted to people who find her attractive. Dax gives tips on how to navigate this social experiment and he gives M and J a challenge to complete by the following week. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Monica, aka Miniature Mouse. I love boys. But I don't have one. And in fact, I've never had one. I could probably count on two hands how many dates I've been on in my entire life. And I decided it's time to change that. Hi, I'm Jess, and I love boys too. And in the opposite way of Monica, I can't count on all the hands in America how many people I've had sex with. And yet, I

still don't have a boyfriend. And I want one. And I'm Dax, and I love Monica and Jess in so many ways. They don't have partners. And that is a huge mystery to me because they're both incredibly attractive, so fun, so smart, and have so much to offer. So what we decided to do is examine these unhealthy patterns and bring in experts and outsiders to help critique us, advise us, guide us, pretty much call bullshit on us so that we can find the romantic companion that we're looking for. We started this thinking it was gonna be just cute, little dating challenges that we would go on and talk about and laugh about. Turns out it is very hard to be vulnerable

in real time in public. Yes, I'm so excited! You're so lying. We romanticize pathological love. One to 10, how much do you want love? Go, you can't even get the sentence out. I would just eat around it. It's a little selfish.

Why do I want something? And then why have I designed a defense? We must put the chum in the water for the sharks to come, buddy. Monica's like, so apparently I have to join Raya this week. He likes fucking. You don't even have a kiss, a handheld, anything. Your frontal lobe is just in the way. Push-up bra, low-cut top.

That's what you should be doing. I masturbate every night. Rob's too uncomfortable for this. Please enjoy part one, getting to know Monica and Jess with our dad, Dak Shepard. Monica don't like, Monica don't like boys. Monica loves boys. Jess don't like, Jess don't like boys. He loves boys.

Monica and Jess, you know they don't like boys. They love boys. How come we're mirroring each other's hands, do you think? I don't know why. Do you have a theory? Soulmates. Soulmate hand. No. ABR. How come we're mirroring each other's hands, do you think? I don't know why. Do you have a theory? Soulmates. Soulmate hand milk.

ABR. So, welcome to what is going to be a fun and thrilling experiment. That's right. We have long teased the notion of Monica loves boys. Yep. And then you and Jess realized what a diamond in the rough you have sitting right in your hip pocket i feel like there's a big section of the country that doesn't have a good gay friend or doesn't live in a town that has a gay area and then largely oblivious to all the fun stuff that monica and i have found out yes i did tell someone i was doing this today at the gym they're like tell them right away that someone that has hiv they can drink out of someone's glasses and they're fine.

Like literally, someone's mom just said that to a friend two weeks ago in 2019 that someone had HIV and they said, make sure you don't drink out of his glassware anymore. Yeah. So this is why we're doing this.

I feel like that's a headline from 1989. I do too. But you never know. But suffice to say, this is not that podcast. It'll inevitably be an exposure probably to the gay dating scene as for a single man. But primarily, these two loves of my life, both are without a long-term partner currently. Yeah. I don't want to misrepresent your position.

I'm a little nervous. You've got me on my heels. No one makes you nervous more. Right? I don't make you nervous. No, not at all. No. I wish I did a little bit.

But no, they each come with different, it's a whole suite of things. So you and I have gotten into all kinds of naughty business together. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I feel safe to be really naughty with you. Yeah. And you've yelled at me a couple times, too. A couple times. A couple of amends have come your way.

Not big ones though. Well, Monica's been on the business end of some amends as well. I feel like I have to ask for them, but yeah. But you guys are both, you both love boys. I mean, Monica's very known for loving boys, but to know Jess is to know that Jess loves boys too. That's right. And I got to say, one of the things i applaud most about your appetite for boys is it's a wide fucking nap when we're

watching shows right monica yes it's the villain he's got a limp he's supposed to look repugnant and jess is like i think i'd fuck him right i think i'd fuck him who is it the craziest one recently that we were watching and he was well definitely the stranger things guy of course but that's yeah yeah well there's guys at my demogorgon there's if you had a big dick you know yeah no i'm kidding but there's guys at the gym you're not kidding that's part of i'm not kidding no we'll get deeper in the back but there's there's guys at the gym that I call them, that's my boyfriend. And then I'm like, that's my regular boyfriend because he's got like three or four big flaws. And then there's other guys.

And at one point, my trainer goes, Jess, who would you not fuck? Like, let's play that game. And I go, not a lot of people in here. Not a lot of guys. I wanted to just preface, you have issues and I have issues. They're pretty much the opposite ones. I got issues. Or maybe they're the same ones, but they are manifesting in extremely opposite ways.

Yes. And we will, over the process of this show. Exploration. Yes, exploration. We are going to deep dive into why we have these things and why they're manifesting the way they are, and we're going to give each other challenges at the end of each episode

so that we can evolve out of these patterns that are causing us to just be in our same space. Right. We want to grow. That's the armchair expert model right evolution i presume you'll bring in experts who we will because i'll have opinions but we're all so interconnected most opinions i would have are probably true well we found out when i the the time you and i have almost no arguments jess over the, how long have we been friends?

Six, 17 years? 19. 19 years. Very few arguments. The ones we've had that were actually emotional is when I have been critical of who you date or critical of your approach in dating. That cuts to the quick when we have that conversation. And similarly, when I, Monica, you and I have them, they get emotional pretty quick.

Relationships are kind of, you're offering your whole self to someone or not offering your whole self to someone like me. And there's nothing more vulnerable about that. It's also ivory tower of someone that has never had a relationship problem and has banged the hottest girls and married the hottest women. You're like, shut the fuck up.

Not shut, yeah, a little bit. Of course. Also, we will dive into it. There's a whole other area, women and and you're like shut the fuck up not shut well you can see a little bit of course also we will dive into it there's a whole other area which i've talked to monica about millions of times of this gay issue with feminine and masculine and top and bottom and grinder and tinder and what have they gone through in their gay experience that they have a great i mean i was very lucky to not have a lot of adroversy. What is it? No. Adversity. Adversity.

I'm really pretty. But you say you're the only person I know that says as many words incorrectly as I do, which has revealed itself to be endearing to the audience. So say the Latin phrase for tit for tat. Prid quo quo. Quid pro quo. You did it. Quid pro quo. Good job.

Quid pro quo. You did it. But I pro quo. Good job. Quid pro quo. You did it. But I would say the closer you are to somebody and the better they know you and the more you feel like they actually know you, the harder it is to shrug off their assessment of you. You know, like if I have like a third tier friend that's like, Dax, you're blank, right? It's kind of easy for me to go like, they don't really know me. Yeah.

But it gets harder when someone knows you really, really well and makes an observation, don't you think? yeah but it gets it gets harder when when someone knows you really really well and makes an observation don't you think yeah i think that's true i also think you can know someone really well and because you know them so well you get locked in like i could be locked in as someone to you and jess could be locked in as someone to you as well because we've presented ourself a certain way to you for so long. So I think it's harder to accept change from a person you've been around for a very long time. Yes. And just to bring everyone up to speed.

So by my recollection, and maybe I'm wrong, you've had two long-term relationships, Jess. Yeah, I have three boyfriends total. One three months, one 11 months, and one broke up but then got back together, so maybe 15 months. Okay. And the first one, you were what age? 35. 35, right. And I lost my virginity at 30.

So we're starting with the pretty honest assessment of the situation, which is neither of you are in long-term relationships. You'd both like to be in long-term relationships. Or is that even true? That's not the point. It's not The Bachelor. No one's getting married at the end of this. Well, we don't know. Maybe.

Maybe that would be the last challenge. But the point is to get out of the ruts, to break the patterns. Those are the hardest things to do in order to grow. I don't look at anyone in my life and I go, I need that. I think that I have curated an amazing group of friends and family members and an amazing life. I do think I'm my best self when I had a boyfriend. I think I get into trouble and I think I get a little mischievous when I have more time on my hand. But when I have time to focus on someone else instead of myself, I like myself better.

But I don't need a boyfriend, but I definitely would want one. The gay thing was very interesting to me. I had no idea really. I'm like, why is everyone calling me Jessica? I was the star basketball player and I had a girlfriend and then I didn't understand it really. And then I was also buying these guys $90 jeans and singing the national anthem before my own game.

And like, there was this thing where in 1980, whatever, seven or 1990, I didn't understand it really. Being gay was very, I think that's a thing, but I didn't understand it. So that was all through high school. Really quick, when you were masturbating at that age, what were you thinking about? I think guys, i think guys i

think guys yeah but i didn't know what being gay was what i've always thought about guys even when i was four or five i used to play around this this kid in sweden i remember i always just thought it was normal i didn't think it was like what gay was and that was later on at 18 and 19 going to west hollywood and going to axis or these 18 over bars i'm like oh this is a lifestyle this is this is wearing glitter and this is this and that it was an identity kind that was an identity which i didn't understand for for very long then i joined the groundlings and then it was no i'm just funny i want to i was eight years there i was i was four classes a week i was a one-dimensional i would do gay characters i would flirt with straight guys constantly like

to get there were you openly gay I think I was yeah I was like when I met you you were openly gay yeah I don't think I ever was in the closet but I never had a boyfriend I never kissed a guy and never had sex so I was this one-dimensional funny guy with a bit of a stomach and zits around my mouth and yellow teeth he loves to talk about the zits around his mouth I wasn't cute I thought I was really cute Dax will say like I I thought I was so cute until I actually got cute one of my things that I did want to think about is why I always needed these straight guys approval and always wanted to make them think I was not a typical gay person which was through my whole life,

which was early nineties. And, and when I met him in 98 or 99 at that, wow, I remember you don't remember just like I need this person. I would write letters to decks in class, just need this person's approval so much, which I didn't want from women and or gay men still to this day at the gym.

Like there's plenty of gay guys at the gym that I'm not even talking to. Right. But those two hot straight one, I want them to think of me being gay as the third thing. Yeah. You don't want that to be the first. I want him to be like,

that guy is super funny. He's tall. He's a jock. Great basketball player. He's a jock. All these things. And then like, and he happens to be gay.

That's so cool. There's so many theories I have these things. And then like, and he happens to be gay. That's so cool. There's so many theories I have for that. One is they're unobtainable. If you could get them to like you, what an exhibit of your attractiveness if someone who would not be- Hard to get. Yeah. Is it that or is it that the straightness innately is exuding some kind of masculinity

and you're attracted to masculinity? Do you have a theory on why that's the prize or the... Both. You know what I really want in a perfect world in my lifetime, which I don't see it happening, is what girls are doing. They're dating girls for years and being lesbians and then going back to being straight. I want straight guys to do that.

I want there to be a fluidity in it which i think well we're increasingly right is yeah younger people are more fluid but i don't think you can hope that for guys who aren't attracted to men which you will still want that i know it won't be the guys who are fluid right right you'll still want this guy who doesn't yeah you're right it's inherently set up to be a disappointment on some level like if i only liked lesbians you know right there's probably only so many issues people have like maybe there's like five actual issues and they're just getting disseminated in different ways and they're getting manifested in different ways but i have all those issues yeah and you know you said i think maybe we'll find out it's this same side of the same coin yeah which ultimately on the outside and i don't want to trigger anyone i do think it's the same thing and then just manifested in completely different ways. But from the outside looking in, so Jess dates a lot

and date is a strong word for what you're doing. Yeah, it's not the conventional date people are thinking from, you know. When Harry met Sally. Yeah, sure, sure, sure. At best friend's wedding. It's a throw gay spaghetti on the wall and let's see what hits.

And I'm leading with sex sometimes and I'm leading with dates sometimes. When they are pro, pro, pro dating only, I'm really heavily, well, let's have sex first. If they're, I'm only sex, I'm only this and that, I'm like, let's meet at a bar first. So I want them to be- The opposite of whatever they are. I want them to be able to hold their own at a White House and a bathhouse. I want them to be able to hold their own at a White House and a bathhouse. I want them to be able to be cool in public that I can meet my rad friends and also be a beast in bed. It's really a lot. You're having a lot of sex.

Yes. Not a lot as much as I used to. I mean, there was a time where i came out of 30 i was 28 guys a week hold on let's just do the math on that 28 guys yeah so uh seven times three would be 21 times four would be 28 so four sometimes four seven in one day was my oh wow okay great this was a long time ago though folks but don't you think you go through phases of this it'll never go away it's streaky there was a there was a period where you didn't fuck for almost a year right or or only i was fat there we go okay yeah but it is streaky it's like there's a lot and then there's none

and then there's a lot and then there's not unlike look i'll say it jess has this incredible relationship with drugs and alcohol which i couldn maintain, that you can party really hard, but you don't have the frequency. Right. But you can go hard. I think hard is what you did. I've seen hard. In some people's world, in Monica's world, I can go hard. Right.

Yes, but not in a hard that I've seen in this community. Hard for me is going three days uh-huh yeah but i can go three or four days a week a lot right right i think what you're actually doing you're protective of the conclusion maybe a little bit just explain like yeah there's just facts like you you're streaky okay sometimes you don't fuck a lot sometimes you fuck a ton right that's just a fact yeah yeah yeah but you're nervous you're like trying to protect whether the conclusion of that is you're an addict or not an addict maybe i shouldn't even said the word no but it's just like the facts are i've known you for 19 years sometimes you fuck a ton yeah

and then sometimes you're not fucking for like what it feels to me like a year right yeah you got to kind of take in those things and not try to adjust what it means maybe i've never been single for this long so they're starting i'm starting so the last one was greg and that ended four years ago and the boyfriends before that everyone just landed in my lap and i thought this was easy so for the last four years have been interesting for me that it's just not happening I thought that was something that just happens did you meet any of the three and I'm gonna limit it to two personally just because I've met two oh yeah you didn't met the 18 year old right that was three months and that was actually

I needed that so much that was so. And he had been out seven years and I was only out sexually five years. As much as that age difference was difference. He was an amazing lesson in holding hands and writing each other notes and like being in love and taking each other to, yeah. And going to Laker games and giving each other flowers. Like I needed that at 35 years old. I didn't have that like 16 years old like most people do at proms. Yeah. So I loved that relationship. But the two that I'm familiar with, did you meet either of them online?

Both. You did? I met everyone online. I met Tim on Grindr, and I met Greg on Tinder. Grindr and Tinder. And Tinder is more dating. Yeah. Okay.

But it's the same people people and that's what i'm seeing now it's they're just showing different sides of themselves and different pictures and nicer bios yeah but i love seeing that they're on both because i'm on both and i'm trying to pit each other against each other sex or dating well and they're all doing that and i was wondering when you see that somebody says they're only in it for dating do you immediately assume oh they're all doing that. And I was wondering, when you see that somebody says they're only in it for dating, do you immediately assume, oh, they're bad in bed? Sometimes. Because I feel like that's what I would think. They're not.

They're just interested in dating because they probably know that there's a high probability that they're going to enter these situations where sex is going to be first on the table and they're like, no, I don't want to do that anymore. Oh, yeah. And I think there's a lot of guys like that. But I also think even if you're gay, you're going to fall into a stereotype of like, well, wait, I want to fuck all the time. And he's a dude.

He should want to fuck all the time. He doesn't want to fuck all the time. Why doesn't he want to fuck all the time? That's suspicious. Like, something stinks. But these are just, again, I know there's stereotypes. Stereotypes of men in general that aren't true,

that we've decided are true. They're not for everyone at all times. I didn't have sex with my last ex until five or six states in. I think that's why it worked in a way. There is something to be said for, you know, cherries in the juice or waiting for the... Oh, cherries in a way. There is something to be said for, you know, cherries in the juice or waiting for the...

Oh, cherries in the juice. You know, like, save it all for the gander. I don't know, there's something. Cherries in the juice, save for the gander. I know, the saying where you leave some things in the room, leave some in the engine.

Oh boy. Okay. Leave some money on the table. Yeah, so the engine. Oh, boy. Okay. Leave some money on the table. Yeah, so you can get it later. I don't know. You guys, I'm onto something. There's the saying, it's fact-checked, don't give them all the thing if you want to get the cow.

You're not going to buy the cow if you're getting the milk for free. Yes. Oh, that's the one? Oh, my God. We found it. Wow. What a journey.

Wow, wow, wow. We are supported by OKCupid. You all know that Jess and I are very dedicated to becoming better at dating this year. That's what this podcast is all about. OKCupid has offered to help us out by giving us some tips to be better at this endeavor. So here are a few of them, okay? This will help us. One, update your profile often. This is a dating app hack. Ooh, we like hacks. The more you update your profile, the more people you will be shown to. Two, stop sending hey as a first message. That's really good because I

think I do that. Literally anything you can do to make the message more meaningful will increase your chances of getting a response. And with OkCupid's rich profiles, you should have a lot of material for inspiration. You know what I like about OkCupid? They match you up based on the things that you're actually into as opposed to just generalities about you because they ask you like really cool questions. How are you feeling about the 2020 election? Do you listen to podcasts? How do you feel about kids?

How do you feel about coffee dates? You like coffee dates. I do. And by the way, it works. They're the number one dating app mentioned in the New York Times wedding section. So stop the mindless time on other apps and go to the app where you choose what matters. Okay, Cupid is free. So I don't even have to give you one of those super long

URLs with the code. Download OkCupid today and go on a great date this week. And then tell us about that great person you met. We might come to the wedding. We are supported by Helix Sleep. Jess, I think you're very unique. Monica, I think you're very unique too. Thank you. And you know what? Everyone's unique. And that's why we each sleep on a Helix mattress designed specifically for our body types and sleep preferences. Helix has a sleep quiz that takes two minutes to complete. It was so fast, so easy. And they use the answers to match your body type and sleep preferences to the mattress for you. So if you like a mattress that's really soft or firm or you sleep on your side or your back, what do you sleep? I'm a side sleeper. Me too. I'm a side

sleeper. But do you sleep hot? With Helix, they have all kinds of specific mattresses for each and everybody's unique taste. So yes, my mattress is a Helix Sunset, which makes me a side sleeper and I wanted some balanced support and a little bit of a plush feel. And what are you? I took the test and I am a midnight mattress. So medium firmness and then side sleeper. So comfortable. Oh my gosh.

Isn't it the best? Yes. It's big for my body and it's so comfortable. And you hadn't replaced your mattress in like 10 years, right? So this was... Nine years. Yeah. And doesn't it make a huge difference like 10 years, right? So this was... Nine years, yeah. And doesn't it make a huge difference having a nice new mattress? Yes.

So go check it out for yourself. Go to helixsleep.com slash monica. Take their two-minute sleep quiz and they'll match you to a mattress that will give you the best sleep of your life. And right now, Helix is offering up to $200 off all mattress orders for our listeners at helixsleep.com slash monica. It's also relevant to say that you guys, you two, Jess and Monica, live a block from each other, which is fun. And you guys often, a couple nights a week, go out to happy hour.

We're going tonight. Yeah, right after this. Yeah. So you two are like girlfriends. You guys go out to happy hour and you talk about guys and relationships and all this kind of stuff in life. Sure, but I'm going to have to be PC here

and say it doesn't have to be girlfriends. Well, it doesn't have to be girlfriends. Because a guy and a girl can talk about these types of things. Oh, yeah, but I would describe Panay and I as girlfriends. Right, again, that's a stereotype of the way girls communicate. Well, the reality, even both Dr. Wendy Mogul and Dr. Alex will say, guys don't like to look at each other in the eyes and talk. Like if you have a son, you should take him on a walk or play basketball.

Because they've been trained. Yes, so that's just the reality of the world we live in. Hopefully we'll train boys differently. But currently, it's rare for two guys to go out and look at each other across the table. I like to do it a lot. You do that? Yeah, I like that.

Yeah. But I was also raised by a woman. I didn't, you know, whatever. I don't, I know that what I'm doing isn't the most common thing. Sure. But I'd like to make it way more common. And I think labeling it as girlfriend talk

is not getting closer to that. It's perpetuating. Yeah. Okay. Because guys don't want to be girls, another thing that... Well, I do. But anyways, you guys go out to happy hour all the time.

Yeah. And you really have fun, and you have like, what do you have, wine? Sometimes wine, sometimes roll the dice. Oh, tell me about roll the dice. Oh, I'll tell you about roll the dice. Oh, tell me about roll the dice. I'll tell you about roll the dice. Basically, it's pick your own spirit. You pick your own spirit, and then they can choose your own adventure.

So you could get something in a goblet that's creamy. You can get something on the rocks. It's more of like an old-fashioned. You can get a mule that's going to come with, like, ginger. And then they walk it to you, and then they describe it. This is a penicillin. It has honey, bourbon, and then they build it for you. But every single roll of the dice, they have to walk over and describe it.

Oh, so you're getting a lot of FaceTime when you order. It's a surprise. Oh, surprise. But we've been going so long that we're like, oh, Goblet, Red Velvet. We'll know the name. We'll know what's in it. We know all the servers. I actually bring a lot of dates there, too.

So now they're like, oh, thumbs up, thumbs down. A lot of first dates are there because it's a block away from my bed. Yes. I guess going back to the girlfriends thing, I think the reason too I went there is it for me, who's jealous of you guys being single and getting to go out at night for happy hour and being jealous that you guys can drink. And I lost that right. To me, it sounds like sex in the city.

Sure. Like you guys meeting up for Cosmopolitans and talking. Sure. That's, I think, why I get jealous. Okay, now, Monica, for the people who've heard it, the Denver Live show, we kind of got into your history with boys. Yeah, touched.

Touched. Well, we know there was the boy in junior high that you liked, and at the swimming pool, he said he liked you, but he couldn't be with you because your parents worked at Dairy Queen yes that was a big bad moment and I would argue a pivotal moment for you oh it was a watershed moment for sure a watershed it was it was it just confirmed all the things I was afraid were true but was hoping that it wasn't true. You're like, I'm blending in.

This is working. They're not aware of the fact that I'm Indian. And then he just fucking- Crushed all those dreams. All of you slam dunked. He did. I'm very upset about that story. But you know what?

If it wasn't that story, it would have been another story. It would have been something else to confirm the thing i was afraid was true because it was true but my long it was true well my parents do not work at dairy queen no they don't true but and uh i'm sure it would be hard for you to have any empathy for him but i also imagine he liked you and he starts thinking well if I'm with her then I'm gonna be like people are gonna say oh my god her parents work at Dairy Queen so he too is operating on this fear he got caught in that fear right he obviously was afraid but that of course I can be empathetic to a point I mean sympathetic to a point, probably, of that. Let me ask you, because you were already nervous about being other.

Yeah. If you had taken a liking to the one Vietnamese guy in your school, do you think you would have gone, fuck, I like him, but I don't need another thing. I don't need to be the Indian girl dating the one Vietnamese guy. Of course. You think that might have happened to you? I guess that's what I mean about the empathy.

Well, it didn't happen because my self-loathing was so strong. I'm prefacing this as a horrible, horrible thing. That's true. But I would never have been attracted to someone who wasn't what I deemed higher status than me. Right, the group you wanted to be in. Yeah.

So I would never have fallen in love with the Vietnamese guy at that age. You don't think, what if you were seated next to the Vietnamese guy and he started telling you about how much he loved Good Will Hunting and then he watches the movie on his eyelids? Like you would have been like,

oh my God, this is perfect, but there's no way. I would, honestly, I would have thought, oh, no. This must be something that. Others do? Jesus. And now I got to pick a new movie, and it can't be that, and I can't tell anyone that I like that movie. Right.

So. Sure. It's horrible. Oh. It's horrible. Oh, it's horrible. But it's long been my theory, and I've said it to you many times and said it on here many times, and I've witnessed it in real life. I think post the swim party, you miss when people are hot for you. Like, it really goes over your head. I've observed it.

You shaking your head? No. I have observed it. I was vind head? No. I have observed it. I was vindicated and proven right one time. No. Yes. I don't know how on earth you could still pretend that he wasn't attracted to you when you guys went on dates and made out. I don't think he was attracted to me at, like, the parties.

I think he was. I don't think people go on dates with people they weren't attracted to at the party. When they have a lot of options. He has all the options. Also, when you go to a party, I'm scanning 18 people that I'm attracted to, and then I go on with the party. Like, you know what I'm saying? I already know the people I would have sex

with, but I'm not... You could have been scanned without you knowing that you're hot, and that you have nice boobies, and a beautiful face and then move on and maybe just because he wasn't showing a lot of attention to me it's already clocked but I also say she has a terrible muscle memory of basically

the last time she acknowledged someone had those feelings because you did know that boy liked you which is why you said to your friend yeah we were flirting we liked each other. Yes. Well, that's why it was so painful

is it felt like, oh, I'm never going to be able to have the thing I want because of this thing I can't control. I linked that to the rest of my life. Yeah, and for my own clarification, when that happened, did you think to yourself, oh, he didn't really like me at all? Or did you think, oh, he likes me, but he can't be with me because I'm other?

That. Okay. So you did accept that he liked you, though. Yeah, I did. Okay, good. But here's the thing. You're outvoted. You're hot.

Yeah. You have a fucking rocking body. Dudes get boners looking at you. That is a fact. That's just a fact jess is thinking well he's trying to imagine getting a boner no i just i i think they think it but i don't think in this day and age now people are heavily flirting and coming up and like it is so much more nuanced now like in the 80s guys would be groping you at the grocery store and they weren't i mean i was three

you were a child yeah you just went on a date i mean i don't know if we talk about that but you he was it was three hours and it was nice and i go did he flirt with you and you're like i don't know but there was it's just this more yeah hipster 19 2000 what is it? It's 1918. I think that they are all a little bit taking a step back and it's not going to be like nice tits, like you're saying. You know what I'm saying? It's going to be... Yeah, like when Bree and I came out of the river there in Austin,

the guy said, you got all the right shit. No one's really... I don't know that many people are saying that anymore. After the Dairy Queen, how long did you shut down? Did you know you shut down? Okay, so yes, that's a great question. Better than all mine. Okay, continue. No, no, no. Have you ever been jealous of our friendship? No. Really happy for your friendship. Oh, good. Because I

really thought both of you need each other a lot. Because she is the ultimate rule follower. You're the ultimate rule breaker. He knows how to have fun he knows how to be carefree and not overthink stuff you like i see you guys as being very beneficial for each other i've always thought that i was so grateful when you guys met that you hit it off really quick and i was like this is exactly who each other needs that's nice what if the end of this podcast is you guys fucking on the couch? Sometimes when Monica laughs at my jokes, I secretly hope that you think, she doesn't laugh at mine like that.

Well, no, we've had that specifically. She can watch you go, fuckies, and make the ugliest face in the world and laugh and say, just do it again. And if I go like, fuck you, you're cool, she's already throwing up. And so I'm jealous of that for sure. You're totally her brother. I'm still not her

brother yet. I'm her little brother. Okay, sorry, you shut down. Yeah, so I kind of shut down, but I don't think I knew I shut down. And really what happened is, I thought that I was just

picking people I liked and I couldn't have them. Like I would pick Richard Accardi. He was a senior. Or was he a junior? Whatever. He was older than me. By how many grades? I think two.

Okay. That's acceptable. He was on the football team and he was so cute. And I would like draw pictures about Richard Accardiy and Monica McCarty and Mrs. McCarty. Like I would do all of that. My friends and I would like make each other pictures and then trade them in the hallway about the people we liked and stuff. The thing is, like, we would do that. But my person was always a fantasy.

I was never going to be with Richard McCarty. He didn't know me. I was a stranger to him. And my other friends would pick people who they would fantasize about and they would write Mrs. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But they would date those people. Right. Okay. But really quick, is it possible they were setting more realistic expectations than you were? Yes. I think that's what was happening is I was picking people subconsciously that was going to confirm this, again, idea I had that like— That no one would want to be with you. Yeah. Yeah, I think so too.

And I do the same thing with these guys at the gym or these straight people or—yeah. Yeah. It's a very common thing. But why are we doing it? Well, and here's the part where I'll just jump towards the end, which I see in both of you. It's maddening to me. It breaks my heart. I could start crying that neither of you understand how attractive you are

in the deepest, deepest, deepest way and in different ways, but it's the same, deepest, deepest way. And in different ways, but it's the same. And it's heartbreaking. I mean, I see that about Jess. I see that about Monica. It's intense, you're right. It's intense. And it almost makes me angry.

It's all the narrative. I didn't start dating until this age. Guys in the gay community are this way. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. People don't like that. It's all a story. I set my things too high. I'm going to,

self-fulfilling prophecy. This guy's never going to like me. It is maddening. It is interesting that this is happening because I've seen that a million times when we're talking.

I just want to kind of shake you. I mean, I'd hurt you because I'm 230 pounds. Yeah, Jess is six. Jess is the tall friend we always reference. I'm 6'5", 225. Well, technically, he's a freak.

I think the scientific term is a freak. You're the barometer of all things tall in our life. That's right. Like, if we see a giraffe, they go, I think that's two Jesses. Aw. You're synonymous with tall. I will say one thing, though. I think we are insecure in conceited bodies.

There's a part of us that are very confident. There's a juxtaposition that is interesting because we don't have... Well, there's a difference between confidence and self-esteem. You guys are both confident. You're both smart enough to know that you can't pursue comedy and be insecure on stage. It will not work. You're both smart enough to have recognized that. Sue comedy and be insecure on stage.

It will not work. You're both smart enough to have recognized that. You, Monica, are smart enough to know that you have to walk into an audition and exude confidence and shake the person's hand and look in their eyes and be self-assured. But that doesn't mean that you go home and look in the mirror and go, of course, that guy I like would like me back. Those are like two completely different things. Yes. that guy I like would like me back. Those are like two completely different things. Yes.

And then my complaint about you, which this is where it always gets heated between you and I, is you're an absolute unicorn. And then you're trying to play a game that is just pedestrian and for everyone. And it's so frustrating to me. And you'll say in the gay community, people are more aesthetic, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I know all the reasons. But but in my mind you just said it you don't fuck when you're

not in the shape you want to be in and you fuck a lot when you're in shape that's true and the least the least it's a hundredth on the list if i was listing things about just even when you're at your peak physical fitness and i was telling a friend of mine about jess or on this podcast i've talked about you 1100 times never once have i mentioned you're in good shape i don't give a flying fuck it is the least interesting thing about you it's the least magical thing about you no one that knows you and loves you would even list how you physically look in a list it's like me thinking people like me because i'm a good driver right but someone that has been known as the funny guy and that is fun around parties or make us laugh or do this joke or be this thing you want what you don't have i want to be hot i want to feel like me too i i

have exactly i have always since i was young has been about sing that song be the jester and all that and i'm not poor me i love that part of it too but i want to be touched i want to be like dude that guy's lips are amazing that guy's hair i want to run my hands through his hair i want to grab his hand and like i everything i want is physical yes I have the exact same thing. We've talked many times on here. I would want for someone to say after they met me, in order, he's hot. But it's maddening when you say it. I'm so sorry.

I love you so much. But when I first met you, that is all I thought. You were this tight wife beater with your tats and you were tan and you were funny. And you were just like, we walked out and saw. You lost me at tan. He was. He was. He was tan as fuck. with your tats and you were tan and you were funny and you were just like, we walked out and saw, he was, he was, he was tan as fuck. We walked down and saw your,

he got on your motorcycle. It was me and our teacher and she was head over heels and I'm like, sick. Um, I love him. I can't sick. Um, can you stick them?

And she was going for you hard. I'll never forget it. I'll never forget it. The difference is I believe in your insecurity because I know you well. But your insecurity in that way has not stopped you in this realm. I was about to go down that path, which is, now here's where I'll grant both of you, there's a difference here. You weren't being you in high school. So you weren't having the experimental phases i was where i was

very insecure ninth and tenth grade i think i looked like a monster and i was too skinny and i had fucking acne zits around my mouth i had braces on okay and then i had a perm on top and then long straight hair and back and i didn't have the fucking jordans and all the z cavaricci's everyone had all list list list yeah but i was able to experiment and just try saying hi to a girl and being very confident and trying it out even though i didn't believe it in the moment trying on a character where i was confident and i'll grant you you didn't have that i don't can't expect you to have done what i did which was okay i'm not betting on my looks that That's off the table. I don't feel good about my looks.

But I can make people love me with my personality. And I got to experiment with that, and it worked. And then I'll also say to you, it's not the same for you either. It's not fair to you, Monica, because in general, guys aren't going to date a girl based on her personality first. So even in the depths of your insecurity, I agree that it's more challenging for you to go, but I'm just going to be the smartest, best, funniest girl in the world, and the jock's going to want to date me anyways. So I recognize that both dynamics are different.

I was able to find a confidence based on my personality where I believed I could land any girl. I was lucky enough to be a straight white male in a high school where I could experiment with that. You really couldn't, you really couldn't. So those are the handicaps I'm giving you. True. I don't know if she doesn't think she's hot. I think

she, I'm just saying I, if I can be a little bit honest, I think you think you're a little better than everyone. Oh, okay. I mean, I'm just saying, maybe it came across. Well, but I think it's more specifically, you think I want the best one, and the best one's not going to like me. Yeah, that's what it is. I mean, in a nutshell.

You definitely don't think you're better than people in life. That's not what I meant. I think I know what you mean in that I do think there are a lot of people that I'm not attracted to. Yes. And that's not even, I think, I know that from life and experience. Maybe this has been another learned pattern of like, I'm just going to turn that part off. You know, I used to, as every girl did when we went into like a party,

like you're picking like, who's the one I'm going to like at this party? I did that so many times. And then, you know, that gets so exhausting when nothing comes to fruition and things are coming to fruition for everyone else that you turn things off. But again, you were at one point you admit picking guys strategically out of your league so

there'd be no expectation subconsciously yes yes yes i've grown into that conclusion yeah and so i think when you do that you do shut off your uh radar for the guys that would like you. And you don't try to find your way in to people. But this is where Jess is right. I do feel like... You deserve the best. I do. I think that's a great thing.

That there shouldn't be an out of my league. I don't think there is. But I do then feel like there is. We are supported by Athletic Greens. I love Athletic Greens. Same. It is an ultimate daily all-in-one health drink with 75 vitamins, minerals, and whole food source ingredients, which makes it easier for you to get comprehensive nutrition without the need for multiple pills,

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That's athleticgreens.com slash monica. We are supported by stamps.com. Jess, postage rates have gone up again. Thankfully, stamps.com eases the pain with big discounts off post office retail rates. With stamps.com, you save five cents off every first class stamp and up to 40% off shipping rates. That kind of savings really adds up, especially for a small business, which we have and we use to ship all of our merch. Plus, stamps.com is completely online, which saves you time. No more inconvenient trips to the post office. Stamps.com brings all the services of the U.S. Postal Service right to your computer. Whether you're a small office sending invoices,

an online seller shipping out products, or even a warehouse sending thousands of packages a day, stamps.com can handle it all with ease, 24-77 for any letter, any package, any class of mail, anywhere you want to send. Stamps.com is a no-brainer, saving you time and money, and no wonder over 700,000 small businesses already use Stamps.com. Right now, our listeners get a special offer that includes a four-week trial plus free postage and a digital scale without any long-term commitment. Just go to stamps.com, click on the microphone at the top of the homepage, and type in Monica. That's stamps.com. Enter Monica. Let's double back to another really great and honest conversation Monica and I had years ago

where I was asking her about her history and she was saying that she had liked this person a lot for a long long time and then ultimately she ended up going to his apartment and they kissed and stuff and then immediately it was over her attraction to him and I said do you suffer from what I suffer from which is I like this person I like this person I like them oh wow wait they like me they must not be as good as i thought they were or they wouldn't like me yeah that's the main that's the main through line of you think that too yeah that's oh yeah really that's what happened to her in this one specific oh i thought you were to say this house was dirty wait what when you were like he got back to where his apartment and

you guys kissed and then it was over because his house was really dirty no that's what i thought you were gonna say that's a bad opinion i know monica's house is dirty she doesn't feel at home she's never there well again because i had all these years of picking people who were not really gonna even pay attention to me because they were so good they were movie stars of your school yeah so if then they started to pay attention it's's like, oh, I was wrong. I picked the wrong person because- I mis-evaluated their status and appeal. Correct. I find it a little bit unattractive when people are attracted to me.

Yeah. Wow. That's so deep. Oh my God. If we could jump into each other's bodies for this challenge, I would kill. This one's a body swapping challenge.

It would be amazing because we have literally the opposite comfort zones. Well, can I ask you though? So we'll call him Mike. Mike was high status in all the ways. And you liked him. There was a period where you were really intrigued by him. Yeah. And you thought, well, he would never like me.

And then he proved that he liked you. At what point during that process were you like i don't know if i like him as much as i thought because i remember it's not like he had done anything weird it's not you came back and you were like we hung out all day and i found out like he's just um full of himself or he's this that no there was no red flag no there wasn't he didn't he he was great and fun and engaged well he's more serious than you're expecting but um but but mike i don't think i ever liked him really i think i picked him like i want like i did in high school when i walked into the party

and i was like oh who's the single person who's the hottest or highest status or most whatever again this is subconscious i'm not right i think it's disgusting no no it is i think you should reserve any kind of judgment about how you feel you could say it's not productive ultimately but to say it's disgusting or you're bad or a shitty person because you have these feelings, I think is... Well, I think it's a habit I'd love to break because I don't think it's healthy. I don't think it's... Leading anywhere. Anyway, so I think I did that.

And so I picked him and it was based on nothing. So then when I started to get to know him, it was like, oh, great. Like, he's good good but I'm not really super attracted to him I want you to feel that thing that I felt maybe twice or three times which is that

butterflies thing excitement kind of in love thing that would make you want to go on a third or fourth date with whoever that person is, I guess. Me too. Yeah.

That's interesting because I have a different opinion on that, which is that's a dangerous barrier of entry. I'll preface to say mine, Greg, that 15 months was not realistic. It was a nine. It was a 10. It was everything. It was flying across the country. It was scavenger hunts. It was five sex, five a nine it was a ten it was everything it was flying across the country it was scavenger hunts it was five sex five times he was a ten he had four percent body

fat this person that looked like this and this status liked me meant everything to me and it wasn't gonna last and he was 26 years old and it wasn't gonna go anywhere but that feeling took me and evolved me to something that I've never felt before, regardless if it was healthy or not. I loved that I experienced that and it was still a pivot point in my life. So even if it's not healthy or healthy, I want you to experience some kind of even bad breakup where I cried for six months. Any of this stuff that people have done at 16 years old and 18 years old and 22 years old that I've barely done, I want you to experience at some point. And I was only just pointing out is I think we suffer from one of the same liabilities, which is you're so pragmatic, you're so goal-oriented that you're evaluating on a first date whether you could marry someone or not.

Spend a lot of time with the person. Yeah, even that. And I would just say in the AA way, that's like trying to get sober for 20 years. It's like you can just get sober today, and then tomorrow you can be sober. And so you can just be on this date, and you really don't have to evaluate anything and you can you're allowed at any time to be on that fourth date that fifth date that sixth date and go oh i'm not having fun anymore right and i'll end it now yeah like allowing yourself to not head things off at the pass because you're pretty sure they're going a certain way. You know, I just think I have suffered from that in the past and I've probably missed

knowing really good people. And in my own experience, meeting Carrie was a thunderbolt lightning experience. Meeting Bree was a thunderbolt lightning experience. Meeting Kristen was not a thunderbolt lightning experience. And it wasn't until a bit later yesterday and this morning was i finally got that bolt of lightning but then somehow that's the most sustainable of those three yeah what did it did the thunderbolt come or did you just realize like oh i'm in love

with her i thought this person is so fun to talk to. She does voices. She's funny. She can banter. This is really fun. And it can just be that. And then I do remember a year in going, my God, I feel the way I felt about those other two and weirdly i feel like this is the

earned version like i now have decided i love everything about her and i maybe didn't at first as opposed to i love everything about this person and then slowly you're like oh i guess i don't love this and i don't love that i feel like if I had to do it a fourth time, I think I would prefer the Kristen approach where it's like, just chill, just enjoy the thing that you like. You have no idea what level of attraction you might have eventually because you have this bond.

I think we all can admit attraction's all mental. There's nothing objective about it. And so there's no saying what you would think is attractive you can't say that something's attractive or unattractive right out of the gates i don't think you could have gotten that thing if you didn't have those other five girls or those other things that have led up to that that high school crush versus the thunderbolt versus when you were single and having the wild time of your life and you're famous dating girls and then leading to Kristen. Thanks for calling

it dating. Well, Jess is calling his own stuff dating. I guess he has to call yours dating. Yes, your story is so beautiful. But those 20 girls before that were the stepping stone in a great way for you to maneuver your body and what you need and we don't have that experience yet and we right and my spaghetti on the wall thing is probably not healthy but i'm hoping that i something well i think i think you guys are taking opposite approaches 100 which is why this will be interesting total opposite approaches yes and neither getting the results you maybe want correct yeah yeah exactly yeah and i'm wary to think that having a relationship is the holy grail i am wary to say that we're whole not whole

and complete as people because we are the only single people in our group i battle that can i say why that doesn't even apply to either of you it's not like either of you are sitting at home in your bedrooms going i gotta meet somebody no it's my life's incomplete you guys have no super full busy you don't even it's not even like you're maybe even daily or weekly even aware of the fact that you're single i'm on the apps more too much right i would that is definitely something i would work on you don't have time to be on yours is almost its own that's its own thing which we'll definitely talk about it is yeah that's taking it's kind of all consuming for you yeah i'm talking to four or five different guys which one's going to be a date and going on

second and third dates and one guy's unavailable because he just came out a year ago it is like well i'm dating a couple people at the same time i have been in the exact headspace back when i was single and had my space and i so i know what you're talking about and it is nearly all-consuming for me it was impossible to check my messages at the end of the night to see who responded fuck that i'm checking all day long to see if someone sent me a picture or i mean it's just on but for me when it's on i'm triggered when you compare yourself to me uh-huh a lot i know you are why because i'm the i'm his example of an addict i'm the thing that makes him feel safe that he's not an addict in any way that's half of what got me sober as i was running out of people that were worse than me right i was like oh i'm the person everyone's comparing i don't know that was it i just i feel

you bond with me in a way that we bonded with 20 years ago over drugs and sex and we're not those people anymore and i still have some of that but what would be can i ask you because i you you defend this a lot and you protect this a lot and i'm just asking you what if you were addicted to those apps and sex what does that say about you what do you think that says about you to say yeah i'm addicted to those things i would have to admit that my life was unmanageable and that I would have to seek help. And I don't feel that. Do you think that makes you something different?

Like you don't want to be an addict, but I'm an addict. What's so bad about me? I like indulgent. That's the word I like to use. But he's asking, what are you allergic to? Yeah. Like worst case scenario,

I'm saying to you that I think you might be something I am. I'm not ashamed of this. So I'm just curious, what are the stakes that you were an addict or not? I don't know. We'll find out. What our arguments have been in the past and what I get a little heated about, it's when you tell me to put ugly pictures of myself on Tinder instead of really hot curated ones or dates. That's not what he said.

You said put a regular picture without that. You said ugly. No one puts regular pictures. You said ugly. Okay. Which tells me you hear ugly. And he said a real picture, not an ugly picture. And I'm going to say that at some point during this too.

I'm not. Honest pictures. You're saying instead of a super hot picture. Yes, a hot picture. You're hot. Right. Any of your real pictures are going to be that. No one's saying that's mutually exclusive.

But when you put a picture up from 15 years ago. It's not 15. Okay, well. I did have a, three months ago, I left the guy's house and um it was really hot we had sex uh two weeks later i go do you want to hang out again he's like oh i mean i might uh hook up like a threesome i don't think i want to do one-on-one if you get a hot guy i'll join you guys you need to update your pictures uh-oh it was like it was the worst and best thing and it just went through my veins because i've been on plenty of dates lately in real dates where the guy was like and not really match you're a little

aggressive for me and i was like cool i love that about myself uh-huh it was i think i'm aggressive and i'm a lot and i ordered 18 appetizers and i eat really fast and i'm just that's me and i didn't it didn't bat an eye. I'm like, cool. Good luck with everything. But when he said, update your pictures. Yeah. Triggered your dark.

It was just awful and great. And I smiled. I go, yeah, I probably should do that. And then I blocked him. Well, it's a lot. It's all of this is so layered on layered. So sometimes my trigger with you Dax is that it's a, it's all of this is so layered on layered so sometimes my trigger with you dax is that it's a it's a blanket statement it's just you should do this and i go oh there's so much

more underneath it like you said where the river starts instead of what the where it ends you know and why we're doing this and that's why this is so exciting and nerve-wracking for me yeah and i think it's going to be really cool. But again, as your friend, if I saw that you were trying to regularly compete in the Gay Olympics as a sprinter. I would say to you, I don't understand why you're trying to compete with sprinters when you're a phenomenal basketball player that's won three gold medals in the Olympics. Which you have, by the way. Jess has won gay gold medals. I have. Not gay gold medals. Gold medals in the olympics which you have by the way jess has won gay gold medals i have not gay gold medals gold medals in the gay olympics there's nothing gay

about those medals the medals are pretty gay they're pretty straight i'm saying that there are a thousand guys in la maybe a hundred thousand guys in la that have better bodies than you why on earth is that what you're gonna fucking compete compete on? It's just so stupid. Because that's why I lure people to these dates. And I do do well on these dates because that's my thing. But to get them on the dates, you need these pictures. No, they feel lied to. To get those guys.

No, no, no, no. To get those guys, you do need to have those pictures. First of all, guys, my pictures aren't that bad. And their current ones, I'm so embarrassed. guys you do need to have those pictures guys my pictures aren't that bad and they're i've their current ones i'm so embarrassed plenty of guys i'm going on multiple dates with them plenty of guys i'm having sex with multiple times with those pictures being fine but just you're you're starting red date you're missing i know the point i know i'm starting the day you're selling one thing and you get a buyer that's in the market for that thing and that's fine you're right those

guys do want to fuck the version of you that's the got the lowest body percentage fat there's no argument there i totally agree with you but i would suggest that the person you're going to end up growing old with on a on a fucking swinging chair that's not what they're going to be in the market for they're going to be me meeting kristen and saying that personality i must be with that personality on a fucking rocking chair and so i'm not expecting any more of one of these guys than what i did i think is the least interesting thing about you well about anyone to be honest well no some people have shitty personalities and they're they're not bright or funny or fun to be around and maybe their body

is the best thing about them oh and those people should live in the gym and then they should sell that product that yeah but that's true your your thing you can you by the way you can be in great shape i'm not telling you not to be in great shape or that not to be an aspect of you. But I definitely just think it'll always be the last most interesting thing about you. And the least among many reasons that someone would want to spend their life with you. But as you said, we're trapped in. We want the thing we don't think we are. And in theory, I love those things you're saying. And I 100% would in a perfect world want that

you also in all fairness it's just an experiment you've never tried what vacation were we on when you said I'm at heaviest point was it Fallbrook if you took your worst picture from Fallbrook it's next to Monica where my stupid I love that picture I know my huge stomach coming out

and in a comment said suck it in Jess was one of my cunty friends said. Who also felt very insecure about their appearance. And so what I'm saying is what we know for sure, I could be dead wrong, you could be dead right. That'd be great. You've never tried that experiment. You never led with the worst physical version of yourself fallbrook and then seeing we're gonna call it fallbrook fallbrook physique and seeing who wants to go out to dinner with you and then when you get to that dinner they're like oh my god this guy's so much thinner

in real life that's cool he's over delivering already and you're like well fuck i got a lot of latitude now because he he went on a date with the fallbrook i'm free to be me we just haven't had that experiment you've never gone on the dates with guys who wanted to go on a date with you after seeing fallbrook we just don't know so it's all theoretical and it's all narrative sounds like a challenge i was just about to say well yeah okay so as i said we're going to give each other challenges jess and i at the end of each and I, at the end of each episode. And then at the beginning of each episode, we will reconvene about those challenges and how they went and all of that. And at the end of this episode, we'll start with Dax giving us a challenge.

Now, I mean, I'm inclined right off the cuff to say, because I think you guys have such opposite approaches. Switch bodies. Well, basically, I'd like to see Monica go on two dates in the next week. Two? Oh, my fucking God. Wait, that's extreme. And I'd like you to only go on one date. And I would like... I have like four set up.

I would like for you... I have four set up. I do. I would like for you, Jess, to make a list of what you want the guy to be and it can include anything physical okay so i am in i have about five or six guys in rotation right now so this should be a new person yeah you got to go out with a new person do i sound like a monster no oh man well look dan savage talked about it's not a it's not a secret that gay guys can have sex a lot more than straight guys and dan savage's takeaway which we loved was make the world safer

for women and they'll want to have sex as much because they want to they're just afraid of slut shaming and the danger to them so what we get to see with guys is where both parties feel very safe and horny as hell. And so you can fuck more. And then there's apps. And even, I do think this is relevant before we get into how your dates go. I think people need a precursor.

Something Monica and I were absolutely fascinated by and loved is that some of the cultural norms in grinder dating is someone may come over and they may step into your house. So this is my truth. Yeah. The lead up is great. There's a lot of sexting. We're in a 40 minute span. So how long is it going to take you to get there? Sometimes I'll GPS how far they are away. They're driving over. I'm getting ready. You're douching. I'm douching. I'm making sure my, oh my God. Your pH balance is right.

I'm making sure that everything's set up. I'm definitely cleaning up my room a bit. I throw a lot of the stuff in the closet. Then I'm downstairs pacing, checking my breath. Then I'm texting them a little bit. They're pulling up. I get a lot of just parked. Then my pussy quivers a little bit for the just yeah pq for the just parked uh-huh i meet them halfway through my courtyard so i want

to see a good lighting i want to see a walk i want to see if he's bringing a lot of somebody why are you bringing a backpack like oh so i get right up do you look what car they're driving no no okay because i drive that's what i would do yeah no no no so they're driving? No, because I drive them. That's what I would do. Yeah, no, no, no. So they're walking up. That's telling. They're sizing me up. I'm sizing them up. They get into the foyer, still sizing up. Hey, how you doing?

Good, man. How was the drive? Not too far. Awesome. Do you want a water? Now, I have bottled water. Now, sometimes they want a water. A lot of times they're like, no, I just had one.

I had one in the car. Or they're holding one, I just had one. I had one in the car or they're holding one. Then we just start making out. Right. Then there's grabbing. There's touching. I'm going down because I get dick pics often. Oh, I just pictured my parents listening to this. I'm feeling for quality of life.

I'm feeling to see if this is all going to match up. False advertising. Yeah, all that. Making out, making out. Little grab. I'm like, I'm down. He's like, yeah, you want to go upstairs. And then other times, other times, I'm not feeling it.

And he goes, I get it, man. And they quickly put their clothes back on. They grab their shirt. Nice meeting you. Very jovial, nice, very like, this has happened a million times. We're used to this. And that has happened to me. Right.

On the flip side. Again, and just not to put too fine a point on it, but it's generally like, if you say, I don't think it's a match, it's pretty immediately after you've seen their penis, right? You don't want to say yes, but yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so what I find amazing and so different from my experience hooking up with women is if I were to ever look at a woman's vagina and then immediately stand up and go, we're not a match,

I have to assume that woman would start crying, and it would be a very emotional ride for the next few hours with us. You'd be a horrible person. I'd be a horrible person. And just that right there tells me this is fascinating as an anthropologist. These are completely different courting cultures. Again, we're not saying all gay guys do this, but the culture you're emerged in is dramatically different than the one I was. And I find that fascinating.

I love it. I have zero judgment of it. It's just completely different. And I think it's very interesting that guys are like, yeah, cool. I get it. What I do like about it is that, for me, I don't think about it afterwards. If these people were leaving and I was like, I shouldn't have done that.

I feel bad about myself. Was I mean to him? I have none of that. Either that makes me a sociopath or it's just transactional. No, I think- I really do think that it is transactional. And I've never, ever had a really bad experience as far as you know violence or scary or robberies which is what most people would think about you have so many people coming to your

house your actual house yeah that's a liability or what i what i think that the truth is in you know what the response is so if they just go like no problem dude that's great no one can fake that that well i think that's the true well no yeah it's the it's the culture that's been set up you guys both know what you're entering you both know that there's a chance that this isn't gonna continue past the water you know but no girl is ever entering a scenario where they think that might happen. Right. And so then that's horrible to do to somebody if they don't know what they're getting themselves into. But I do know that Tinder for women has been used as more of a sex site for straight guys. Hookup, yeah.

And that girls are doing these hookups. Granted, they might want a cocktail before, but they know what they're in for. But they're not expecting to get rejected based on their body part, regardless of the hookup culture. Well, as much as we do agree, male and females are way more similar than different, and it's been exaggerated how different they are.

I do just think also this is, whether that's societal and how we raise boys, but that's a male-female difference, I think. I don't think les this is, whether that's societal and how we raise boys, but that's a male-female difference, I think. I don't think lesbians, it's not a gay thing. It's not like if lesbians meet in the foyer

and one of them looks at each other's vagina and says, we're not a match, I think that's still going to be a big issue. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. Pretty heartbreaking issue. I had a guy like Kaiser Soze Sixth Sense. I saw that all his pictures that all his pictures had sunglasses on. And he got to my house at night with sunglasses on. And then we already got up to my room and the sunglasses were on. And I'm like, oh, no.

Glass eye? Blind. Blind? No, he would have had a stick. It was uh you can't drive well i can't i mean it's horrible but yeah like a disfigured uh ogre eye okay okay an asymmetrical eye yeah okay now how did the glasses come off i asked him you asked and he was slow to and he showed you and then did you say oh cool put him put him back on. No, I got further and then I couldn't. And I've gotten pretty far and stopped.

You have stopped. When I stop, sometimes I go way too further than I ever should have when I knew it was a no. I'm like, maybe my instincts will kick in. Right, your training. My training. Your training will take over. I feel bad because I'm like, oh, Jess, you should have just done it. But I would never say that to a straight girl.

Oh my God. I'd be like, if you didn't want to. Yeah. Or even a guy probably. I'd be like, don't do that. You're better than that. You've never said you're better than that, Jess. Or just you didn't want to, so don't.

I did it. I did it. I had this correspondence with a gal over the internet and she had sent me a lot of pictures and uh she and i was attracted to what i saw and then she came over to a hotel room i was at and i opened the door and i was like okay oh For real, the pictures are at least 15 years old. But then still her? It was her. So it's not a catfish. Oh, fuck, man. You know, maybe.

I didn't even really consider that those weren't even her at all ever. Right, right. But it was much, much different upon arrival than it looked in the catalog. And I was like tough shit buddy you got yourself into this position and you're gonna have sex with this woman because that's what you've promised her and i did it and i was like god this is what a lot of women feel like sometimes like i'm just going through this and i faked like i came and then that was that and it was dark you want to talk about then that was that. And it was dark.

You want to talk about a hangover. I was like, this is dark. What do you think about that story? I think, for some reason, I'm sorry, I have no sympathy for you. Of course, yeah. And I do have sympathy for Jess in these situations. And I think the difference is,

I think there's this idea, and maybe it's not true, and it's probably not true, but there's this idea that this is the only way gay guys can meet each other, is through this. So it feels like, well, I guess he has to do that, where I don't feel like that with you. I feel like you were horny, and you wanted to have sex, and you got to, so good for you. And look, she didn't look like she presented herself, but you were horny and you wanted to have sex and you got to. So good for you.

And look, she didn't look like she presented herself. You still came. I still pretended to. I still pretended. Oh, you pretended. But, you know, like for some reason. Of course. I don't think at any point do I think I deserve sympathy over that whole thing.

I'm just saying I found myself in a position I think people find themselves in. And I, it wasn't within me to go, oh, I don't think I'd like to anymore. Right, right, right. I'd rather do this thing. I did not want to do it. Yeah, that is all so interesting. Because like, I would call that traumatic for a girl. And I don't think it's traumatic for you. And I don't think it's traumatic for you. It was traumatic enough for me that I was the next day like, you know, of course you got in that situation. That's the wreckage of your behavior.

Like this is how I know the behavior is questionable because I have wreckage. Like I got myself in a situation that, you know, wouldn't have otherwise happened if I wasn't acting kind of addict-y. Right. Yeah. If I'm just only going back to my hotel with people I've had a three-hour conversation with at a bar, I'm not shocked when we get into the room all of a sudden. Right.

Hmm. Hmm. Okay. So our challenge is for me to go on two dates in one week. That is a lot. The reason I felt safe saying two is I feel like I've already fielded like five people who are trying to set you up with certain people. Like there's kind of a stable of people that people are trying to set you up with, isn't

there? No. Well, you went on one date, so you can go on that second date. Am I allowed to go on a second date or do I have to be? Yeah, you could go on a second date. Can she have to initiate this? Because she has a week. That would be really interesting if you set the date up.

I'll have to set the date up. I have no choice. Yeah. That's exciting. That's exciting. Wobbywob's laughing. I wonder what about. There's so many topics on the table he could be laughing about.

All right. Okay, so. So you have to go on two dates in seven days. This seems impossible. Well, because you've been on how many in your whole life? Maybe two. How many dates have you been on in your whole life? Like five, probably.

That's what I thought, five. Like so few. That's amazing. I'm obsessed. I love it. So wait, so Jess can only go on one, but is he still allowed to talk to all these other people? No, I think he should take a week off.

And I think in the days leading up to you setting this date, you should make a list of what you want in somebody. And they can't have anything physical. So you got to tell all these people you have in rotation that you're going to be MIA for a week. It's easy. I have chlamydia. I'm taking pills for seven days.

Cool, cool, cool. I'll just be like, I get it. Straight. Yeah, straight. Been there. Been there. Okay, great. Also there.

I'm doing it too. Fuck it. Let's do it. I got it from you. Yeah, he can just kick it down the road. He can go like, oh, I got, fuck, you have a sick father. You could just say, I got to go spend time with my dad. And you could kick it all down the road just one week. That's all. I got, fuck, you have a sick father. You could just say, I gotta go spend time with my dad and you could kick it

all down the road just one week. That's all. You go, hey, we're supposed to get together Tuesday. Can we get together

next Tuesday? I don't know who's this harder because yours, I'm petrified of yours and your narrative and your lens. I think mine

might be impossible. I think that about mine. I know, it's crazy. And really, it's nothing physical. So your list is gonna be be because i did make someone productive oh my god whatever your list is i don't know what your list is mine is funny's number one or smart funny smart silly sure silly could be one do you

want to tell the time that we made out or did you tell that already i think i've said it on here before but sure but yeah i mean in a nutshell um when jess and i were first meeting at the groundlings he was saying what a good basketball player he was and i said uh well i'm definitely a better one-on-one basketball player than you and you go there's not a chance i would destroy you and i'm like i would definitely beat you at one-on-one and you said all right well let's make a wager we'll play one-on-one to 11 and if you win i'll give you a hundred dollars and i was broke yeah you were very broke and if i ran on a poor poor girl uh i knew exactly where to zero in and then if i win uh you have to make out with me with tongue uh-huh for some time period like a minute or

two minutes it was nine seconds or 10 seconds. It was a long time. Okay. And we were in backstage at the Groundlings, so there's plenty of people that saw this. A lot of witnesses. A lot of witnesses. And you said, fuck yeah.

And you shook my hand and almost heard it. I'm like, okay. And as I walked away, it was a reveal smile like the Joker, like he doesn't even know what he's in for. Yeah, and I didn't. I sure didn't. So we get to the outdoor court. You destroyed me.

Oh, wow. I can't remember. I want to say it was like 11 to 2 or 3. Then you said, you got mad. Okay. Best out of three. And then you're like, best out of three. So we play the second game, 11 to 5.

Okay. I don't even think it was that high, but thank you. Yeah, and then another 11 to 2. So three games to 11. And you crushed it. And then we made out. Yeah. There was someone else there.

Caitlin was there? Yeah, Caitlin was there. So it was safe for him. Right. We were on the beach. Yep. It would have felt different for me, I think, if we were in your bedroom together.

Oh, yeah. I might have got kind of triggered to my trauma. Well, it's the same reason why. Do you want to tell people about when we basically made out, when you swallowed my loogie? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, I think we talked about that on the other show.

But yes, we were driving to the podcast. Yeah. And it was in the morning. And I needed a sip of something. I saw you had a Perrier in your cup holder. Oh, no. So I went and I just started chugging it. And you panicked.

You were like, don't drink that! And my first thought was, oh, there's alcohol in it. She's protecting me from relapsing. Oh, wow, Monica drinks in the morning. In the morning. In Perrier. We argued about this this weekend for quite a while. Yes, we did.

I had zero judgment of that. I was like, okay. I mean, she's on time every day. She's sharp as hell. There's no wreckage or fucking unmanageability about this. We were arguing because he said I'd be like, okay, that's okay. She clearly has her shit together. And I was like, no, no, no.

She clearly has her shit together. And I was like, no, no, no. If you taste alcohol that I poured into a small, tiny Perrier that I'm drinking in the morning in secret, I want you to be concerned about that. Got it. Well, look, I think 99 times out of 100, that is definitely a red flag that the person has a big problem. But now I have spent nearly every day with you over the last six years. And I can see you don't have any wreckage or unmanageability in your life. So I would have to say, this is interesting. This is like Seth Rogen who smokes weed all day but is productive and a great husband.

Who am I to say that that is inherently wrong? If there are downstream problems as a result of your your perrier with vodka in it then i'm gonna be very concerned about you and want to talk to you about it anyways yeah as you know jess it's because she had loogied in that perrier several times and i just drank her her spit that's amazing and that's why she panicked i had no idea and also it goes to say what I guess my fantasy of you is, is because you looging in that can the way I do, like a fucking hillbilly, was completely off the table. You drinking was far more on the table than you driving around like.

I was sick. I know you were sick, but that was outside of the realm of possibility. And of course, it makes me like you more, because I wish you cleared your throat like an ox like I do all the time and had phlegm issues, but you don't. Well, I do in the morning. Oh, I'd like to hear you clear out that carbon sometime. Mainly in the shower.

You guys love gross things. We love gross things. You guys loved my doodad. Oh, my. We're going to talk about your doodad on here. That's a cliffhanger for the rest of this. Yes, I agree. That deserves three episodes.

The arc. Because it was a three month long ordeal. You guys say so many nice things about all of your friends. And from one of the outsiders that listens to it all the time, all of us friends want to say how much we love you and that we think the same things about you. And we love smiling and hearing you guys talk about all of this because we feel like we're in the living room.

And I love us. I just wanted to say that. I do too. Me too. Well, Monica loves boys. Jeff loves boys. And I love both of them. So stay tuned for the exciting results of this challenge.

It's so funny because I think for most people listening, it's preposterous that either sounds hard. Amelia's for me. It's like, yeah, you're going to go out with someone on Tuesday and then Saturday. That's not a big deal. And you, really? Just one date a week? That's going to be a challenge?

Honestly, I would have to cancel tonight. After this happy hour, I was having a guy. I can't have sex either right no no i don't get it no you should take the time you were going to be fucking to make your list of things of what you want in a partner got it all right i love you guys i love you you