Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Part 2: Monica & Jess Love Boys who like Christmas

Episode Date: February 19, 2020

In Part 2: Monica and Jess Love Boys who like Christmas, M and J have one solo episode (before they bring in experts) where they dive deeper into their histories. They discuss their experiences completing last week’s challenge. Jess lived in fear all week that he ruined his challenge and Monica adds “needs to like Christmas” to her list. Jess talks about having secret moments in his youth with other boys while openly having a girlfriend and Monica goes through some of her boy-crazy artifacts. The two discuss feeling on the outside of normal and craving experiences just to feel “in the club”. They realize the amount of similarities in their backgrounds. Jess and Monica give each other challenges to complete by the following week. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Monica, aka Miniature Mouse. I love boys. But I don't have one. And in fact, I've never had one. I could probably count on two hands how many dates I've been on in my entire life. And I decided it's time to change that. Hi, I'm Jess, and I love boys too. And in the opposite way of Monica, I can't count on all the hands in America how many people I've had sex with. And yet, I

still don't have a boyfriend. And I want one. And I'm Dax, and I love Monica and Jess in so many ways. They don't have partners. And that is a huge mystery to me because they're both incredibly attractive, so fun, so smart, and have so much to offer. So what we decided to do is examine these unhealthy patterns and bring in experts and outsiders to help critique us, advise us, guide us, pretty much call bullshit on us so that we can find the romantic companion that we're looking for. We started this thinking it was going to be just cute little dating challenges that we would go on and talk about and laugh about. Turns out it is very hard to be vulnerable in real time in public. Yes! I'm so excited! You're so lying.

We romanticize pathological love. One to ten. How much do you want love? Go. You can't even get the sentence out. I would just eat around it. It's a little selfish. Why do I want something and then Go. You can't even get the sentence out. I would just eat around it. It's a little selfish. Why do I want something? And then why have I designed a defense? We must put the chum in the water for the sharks to come, buddy.

Monica's like, so apparently I have to join Raya this week. He likes fucking. You don't even have a kiss, a handheld, anything. Your frontal lobe is just in the way. Push-up bra, low-cut top. That's what you should be doing. I masturbate every night. Rob's too uncomfortable for this.

And please enjoy part two, Monica and Jess love boys who like Christmas. Monica don't like, Monica don't like boys. Monica loves boys. Jess don't like, Jess don't like boys. Jess don't like, Jess don't like boys. He loves boys. Monica and Jess, you know they don't like boys. They love boys. Hi. Hi, Jess.

Hi, Monica. hi hi jess welcome to second installment of monica and jess love boys it's been seven nine days has it been nine and this is the first time i haven't seen you in maybe nine days i think i saw you once which is very weird yeah and we checked in a little bit and then you were like don't talk about it yeah Yeah, because we had to wait. Yes. So let's remind everybody of our challenges. So what was your challenge given to you by Mr. Dax Shepard? My dad gave me a challenge to write down 10 traits in a future partner that has nothing to do with looks or sex.

Right. And then I was only allowed to go on one date and not have sex for seven days and it's also been nine days just to let you know and you did it I have a lot, I want you to start oh boy I did, I did I did an amazing job

yes did you do it? the exact thing? no as soon as I left this thing all this anxiety came up like I'm chatting with nine guys I'm seeing three guys text started coming in it was just very eye-opening how much time and effort I'm spending on these apps and how much I am you know talking to different people in the clause or in the realm or what is in the thing of finding love.

But it was very. In pursuit. Pursuit and finding love. And I started thwarting. I started saying no. And I read my 10 traits, which are quick, witted, flirty, spontaneous, present, healthy, curious, kind, optimistic, secure and charming. present, healthy, curious, kind, optimistic, secure, and charming. And the third guy that I had been on a date with already was 40 and he works nine to five and he doesn't drink a lot. And he is smart and very opposite of me. He's very type A, he's very organized. And I go, okay, he wanted to have

a sexual encounter with me. And I said, no, let's go to sushi. And we did. I went to sushi and it was really nice. And I learned about his job. It was nice. And it was an interesting date. But I had already had sex with him. So it was very, it was, I felt comfortable and it felt nice.

And then we had sex after. Then you had sex after? Yes. Okay. I actually don't think in the challenge you were forbidden to have sex with the one date person. Oh, okay. Really? Yes!

I'm so excited! Okay. I had so much anxiety, Monica. I was telling my trainer, I go, she might cancel this. I go, you know, and it was so hard for me. You're very scared of me. I've never been scared of you until now because this was like exciting for me. Like I work 18 hours a week.

This was something I was looking forward to. And then when it was so difficult, I was really, really bringing me back to when I was 30, when I lost my virginity. I'm like, oh, my God, I have no, really bringing me back to when I was 30, when I lost my virginity. I'm like, oh my God, I have no balance in my life that when I'm rolling over and checking these apps and in the middle of, you know, in the middle of the night or that I'm on them so much, you know, that app that shows you how much you're on something. I need that because this challenge was the underbelly of it was very triggering for me as far as my balance in time. And it was really, really, really interesting.

And I didn't feel good a lot of the time either. I didn't feel good lying to these people. And I didn't feel good about how much attention I've been putting into these things. Wow. Okay. I have so many thoughts already. First of all, good job. Proud of you.

Thank you. Secondly, you should be scared of me. And third, no one said you had to lie to anybody. In fact, I think you should never have lied to anybody. I think when people are texting you, you can say, I'm taking a little break. Right. But that's lying because I want to have sex with them. But that's not lying.

Yeah. You committed to something and you're just doing that you know but lying would be like i can't i have other plans which is probably what you said is that what you said i i said everything from the gambit i think i had plans to like work or family i mean all these things are true not really you were just making excuses but my point is you don't need to make excuses because what you're doing you're just trying to make healthier choices and you don't need to make an excuse for that right well the two other guys i actually had been i'd gone on dates with them they it was they were sexual dates they were like go get a drink or two and then we

go have sex which is super fun but that wasn, that's something I do all the time. So this challenge made me do something that I don't do all the time, which is date within my age range. This guy is 40 and nice and different. And granted, I don't feel a lot of butterflies yet. I really, really like what you said about the challenge was one thing, but you ended up learning something completely different about the way you spend time in your life yeah when i have an improv class or when i have to write my best man speech or when i have to you know do something that is creative outside i do not spend that much time on these things it's i don't what is there's a saying

idle minds idle hands i don't mind i don't mind something. Well, I have a lot of free time and I get mischievous. Well, and it seems like perhaps it's becoming a little apparent that these people are band-aids for other things or they're replacements for other things that you feel like maybe are missing. Yes. And it's like, okay, I don't have this, but I can have this right now. I found a guy on Tinder and he had a lot of these traits I wrote down and we were chatting and it was really cool and he was good looking and he was age appropriate. And he goes, give me your Instagram. And I normally don't like to do that because I feel like it speeds everything up. But I go in lieu of this challenge, I'm like, let's do something I normally don't do. And I go in lieu of this challenge I'm like let's do something I normally

don't do and I go okay and I gave him my Instagram and he blocked me immediately he did and it really bothered me yeah of course and it brought up a lot of things in the gay community that I think which is masculine and feminine and in my Instagram, am I too feminine or am I too masculine? The latest post I put up is me lip syncing to Part of This World by Jessie J, which is, if you know me, it is just a version of myself, which I love and I think it's a killer lip sync. It's a wonderful version of yourself. But when you haven't met someone yet and you go through their whole Instagram, it's like an audition. You're looking to see why they're not going to make

it. And it's very awful and it triggered me even more because I've done that. Of course. I've seen that. I've gone through people's Instagrams and their stories and I'm like, and so when he did it, I smiled. I go, been there, but

it still stung. Yeah, of course. A lot. So no more Instagram? No of course a lot so no more instagram no no no no no no and let me tell you why this is extra upsetting because yes it feels scary it feels like you're putting so much out early if you're giving someone your instagram it's like this is my whole life well and also like don't get me started on what that means. That's your curated life. Right. But they don't even like that. But I wish we had tequila. Well, we have a lot more episodes. I know.

We might need to do one loose. Anyway, but he's going to learn those things about you anyway. And so, like, hiding those parts just means you're not being fully honest. That's what something we're going to talk about i don't agree with that why because i think you should get to know someone at a pace that is healthy and not a sped up insulin needle of heroin of jazz or whoever like you get to know someone and then you're on the third day and like oh my god he does this weird quirky thing which i really. And it's endearing going through someone's Instagram and finding every single thing that they've done and their standup jokes and their bits from movies. It's just like, it's overwhelming when you don't have the other

part to balance it, which is how I'm in a room, how I'm in engaging with you when we're, when we're talking and I have eye contact. Like those things, I am 100% myself on these dates. Like I am just 100%. But I'm still in the moment. I'm like, this guy's a lot, but he's also a human and he's kind of, you know, it works more. On paper, when you're sitting in your living room and looking at someone's Instagram, I'm

just, I just don't agree really. Well, that's true. It's easy to make a mass judgment based on these images. While you're driving in traffic. Right. They're not connecting or anything. Yes, that's true. That's true.

But if he doesn't like your lip sync, the truth is he's not going to like you. His name was, no, I don't even remember. And that's okay. Maybe that's not for him. But that is you. I'm so glad remember and that's okay that maybe that's not for him but that is you I'm so glad you posted that because it's I still am triggered by that post and the reason I'm leaving it up is because it bothers me still I want to leave it up till it doesn't bother me yeah because I have fallen into that masculine feminine he's too gay this is two guys

too queenie he's too femme i'm i'm coming across it's so it's so institutionalized in the gay community and it's not good especially at my age i should be way more evolved than that but why do you think that is these sort of deep root i mean i guess it's it's just misogyny at the end of the day. And it's also we are triggered by things we see in ourselves. So if we see someone act too gay, instantly I go, when was the last time I was too gay? I know, but even the term

too gay. I know, I'm just telling you it's super. But it's like so self-loathing. I know, and that's our community and that's why there's you know, my friend just went to an AA meeting. He said there was nine gay guys to one straight guy in these AA meetings. It is rampant how much self-loathing and shame there's in the gay community. So what was the most fun?

Was there anything fun that happened on the day? On your sushi day? I just liked, listen, he has a lot of rules, i just well i don't eat crispy rice and he looked i'm like oh okay why he's like i mean he stuttered and he's just very particular yeah about things which makes me laugh and i'm usually drawn to those kind of people because i'm not um and and then one time i don't even think I said anything funny and he burst out laughing.

Oh, wow. Kind of a loose man. Burst out laughing. Unpredictable. And it was a pleasant date and it felt very nice and healthy. Did you feel good after or no? Well, then you had sex and then you felt bad. No, I didn't feel bad instantly.

The next day is when I'm like, did I break this challenge? Am I going to get in trouble? Like, do I have a problem? Can I not say no? That would be the most scary thing is that this is deep-rooted in a form of indulgence and addiction, which I don't want to really— Find out. Find out or deal with, really, but I will have to. And after a couple days, I did start to, you know, and, and after a couple of days,

I did start feeling better and like, this is life. And I even contemplated like not lying to you, but like just kind of, I was nervous, but it was, I ultimately at the end of the seven days, I was proud of myself, even though I did think I'd messed up a bit. Right. Right. Okay. So mine. Yes. I'm so excited. So mine was to go on two dates now for most people hearing this well first of all i've told a few people about this and i was like justice challenge was this and mine was this and most people are like both of those sound so easy right you know

like to most people these are just easy normal everyday things to do and it is interesting because every time I would hear that reaction I feel defensive right you know like very right like I haven't done things right or I'm not like other people which just cycles everything back to what I already believed about myself in the first place which has stopped me from doing all these things so it's just so interesting but mine was to go on two dates in one week which felt impossible but i did it so okay i need to preface well we should both preface this entire podcast with i'm nervous that some of this is gonna come off like we're really taking advantage of people and that we are,

you know, it's like kind of like how to lose a guy in 10 days dilemma. Really? I mean, a little bit like I'm about to be talking about these two humans that I met and I don't want it to seem like I'm exploiting them or I'm using them for this challenge. I'm not like we are here to better ourselves. We're here to grow. And these are things we want to be doing anyway. We just need the push. You know, it's not like, I guess I'll use this person for my own gain. I mean, I am, I am saying I'll use this person for my own gain, but that's in a positive way. I think then the negative way it could come off. If that's in a positive way, I think then the negative way it could come off.

It's tricky. It's tricky. I mean, I'm going to use pseudonyms. Pseudonyms. Pseudonyms. With that said, the first date was with this guy who I actually had gone out with the week before. It was set up, a couple that I used to know well and now has moved away. I saw them again at a wedding recently and we were talking about relationships and going through all the patterns that are

true and not true. Like I'm so busy, I don't have time and you know, all the things that again are true, but they're not so true that it should be stopping me from exploring this stuff. It's just a defense mechanism, really. But so anyway, I was talking about dating and lack of sort of, and then cut to two weeks later, the woman in the couple texted me. She texted me about something else. And then I read it, I responded, then she texted back. Okay, so this may sound a little weird,

but there's this guy. And then I stopped reading because I was in, I was in the middle of the recording and I was like, oh, I'll look at that later. But to be honest, my first thought was the rest of that sentences and you should have them on your podcast. I'm sort of trained now to like get those texts and get those emails. So I was like expecting it to be that. And then she texted a few days later and was like, so I've been thinking and I feel bad. I don't want to put you in an uncomfortable position. I was like, what is she talking about?

I had forgot to respond to her. So then I looked and she was saying that she knew a guy out here. And do you want me to give him your phone number? And so I was like, oh, no, I'm so sorry. Yes, please do. Please give him my phone number. So we had a first date and it was fun. We were there for three hours and that feels like a good thing. Yeah. And I didn't feel sparky. And I was kind of like, eh, okay. I'm not really feeling much here,

but he's very interesting and I enjoy talking to him. And the end. Okay. And then we have this challenge arise. And I was like, you know, I should go out with him again because I should push myself. I would not have most likely because I kind of felt like, well, I did it. I went on the date and I checked that off the list and that's done. And I did it. And yay, I'm better now. But that's not really doing anything. That's not really pushing myself at all so i went on this second

date with him and again he's super he's so nice and interesting and like it wasn't like we didn't have anything to talk about we did but i definitely left and felt like i just don't think this person is for me and then i feel very guilty i don't know i understand is for me. And then I feel very guilty. I don't know. I understand why you feel guilty. But in your defense, you feel guilty because you've done this three times. When you've done it. I've done it one, three times. Well, I'm saying, like, if you've done this a lot and, you know, you heard my story last week where we just literally say this isn't a match while we're naked.

Right. And then they're like, cool, got it it and they put their clothes on and leave like yeah if you do it as many times i'm not saying ever get to my that's the other end of the other spectrum but it is this isn't a match and you know what that's okay yeah and that's gonna take a little bit of time for you to get to that place but i also think you feeling sad or guilty is a great human quality. Yeah, that's true. I mean, it's true. And if I'm just being honest, it's like I feel guilty towards him.

But I also feel like, am I doing it right? Like, am I really here to actually give this person a chance or not? And I think I am. I don't know. We are supported by OkCupid. We love OkCupid. They have changed the dating game because you know why? They actually match you with people you're compatible with. They like take the time to get down and dirty with you. Yeah. Figure out your deets. They ask you questions like, do you try to limit your screen time? Do you?

Oh, I need to. Yeah, you do. Are you a morning person? I am. You are. What's a bigger turn on intelligence or looks? Oh, this is a tricky one. Also, here are some tips the dating experts at OkCupid gave us, which we need.

Okay. Number one, know what's important to you. So that's good. You have to know yourself. I like that. Number two, proofread everything. Good tip. Typos are a deal breaker.

Yeah. 75% of people say they're less likely to respond to someone with a spelling mistake in their profile. That's amazing. Okay. Three, send a meaningful first message. Find something that you find interesting in their profile, like a place they visited on vacation recently or a band they like. And, you know, just saying, hey, over and over again is not going to cut it. And the reason we need to take these tips seriously is because OkCupid works. They are the number one dating app mentioned in the New York Times wedding section. So stop the mindless time on other apps and go to the app where you choose what matters. OkCupid is free, so I don't even have to give you one of those super long URLs with the code. Download OkCupid

today and go on a great date this week and then tell us about that great person you met and we just might come to that wedding. We are supported by Tushy. Tushy is an amazing, unconventional gift for anyone in your life because everyone has an ass, okay? And everyone deserves the gift of Tushy. And you know what? I had a Tushy before we did this podcast.

Really? Yes, I bought one because I was like, you know what? I gotta focus on that ass. I got to get it as clean as possible. I can't believe I haven't had a tushy all these years. Yeah, because your ass is important to your dating life. And to be honest, pooping has changed since I got a tushy.

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oh oh oh oh oh one thing that was interesting is he didn't like christmas or halloween and i and i look and he does not need to like those things. That's fine. Except I can't be with someone who doesn't like Christmas. Well, really what it is, is like I need someone engaged in life and the world and like things that are happening and not self-identify as somebody who doesn't like things. That's true. That was a good lesson for me. I thought you were saying, he doesn't like Kristen and Dex. Oh, oh.

I thought you were going to say that. I was like, what? That was a three-hour date too, though. If I could coach you on that. That was a, well, don't coach me. I didn't want that to be a three-hour date. It was three, it was another three-hour date. Right.

I think these are a little long for, for early dates. I do too. Unless it happens, but I remember my first date with Greg, the one that, that one we talked about, I think it was 40 minutes. Right.

It was at a really quick, I had to go to blank blanks house for dinner. He had to do this. It was 40 minutes. And it wasn't any sparks at all, but it was definitely, okay. I don't know. That was a little leave him wanting more. I hope I left him wanting more and I'm sure he thought the same thing. I don't know. There's no right or wrong with it. Yeah. I mean, it's funny because so the second date I went on. Okay. Let's get to that. Was last night and that one got set up in a weird way. So I, um, years ago met him very,

very briefly through friends at like a brunch, barely talking, but met him. And then recently that couple got married. And so at the wedding, um, he was there and I felt like he was kind of looking at me. But then I was like, no, he's not. I'm totally in my head about that. And that's not real. And that's fine. And he's very cute. I saw a picture. And you agreed? Yeah. Yeah. And then I, at the end of the night was saying bye to the bride. And she was like, did the person who wanted to talk to you talk to you? And I was like, oh, who? And then she said, let's call him Chris. Yeah.

So and I said, oh, no, we didn't talk. And then so there was an after party at this wedding. Hey, hey. Hey. And I was like. Was that at a club? I don't know. Was it a bar? It was a bar but I wasn't gonna go because I was leaving very early to go back to a friend's vacation that you were on I left that vacation to go to the wedding and I was going back to the vacation the next day and so I I was like I'm not going to go to this after party. But then

when she said to the person, I want to talk to you, talk to you. I was like, oh, no, I should go to this after party and I should talk to him. And it was such a struggle because I was like, huh, I could do that. I could go out on a limb and I could go to this after party and I could talk to this person or I could go home and I could wake up early and I could go back to my friends, my plan, my safe plan. And I was really going back and forth and I went home. Oh, no, you did? Yeah, I went home. Oh, I didn't know this part of the story. I did. This is a lot about that thing, which is your safe, amazing friends that you love so much.

My life is so full and good. Yes. I mean, it's so full and good until it's not. Right. Similar to addiction, the way Dax talks about drinking. Like, it only works until it stops working. When you start when you hit the roadblock, that's like, OK, I have all these things. My life's great.

I have all these things, but I don't have one thing. And that one thing feels like a really important thing that's missing. Yes. You know, companionship in that way, you know. So anyway, I went home. I picked my normal route as I always do the safe way to my friends. And I felt really regretful about that for a long time. I also thought he didn't live here. That was a big component. I thought he lived somewhere else. So I kind of

was like, well, you did it again. So then I was talking to my other friend and I was telling her the story and she was like, no, no, no, he lives here. And that just opened up the whole thing again, where I was like, okay, so here's another opportunity. Should I take it? But it felt too scary. It just really felt too scary. And I guess I don't even really know of what, like, that he wouldn't like me, I guess. I mean, I do have all these issues that have gotten a lot better, but come to surface in sometimes these types of conversations where i'm uncomfortable where like i kind of have this complex where i want to be everybody's number one and even in cases where it's like i shouldn't be their number one like i really want that you know like it's almost more fun when it's someone who i can you know hard to have hard to get all these things. Unattainable.

Yes. Yeah. I'm always chasing unattainable. That's why I made these books of celebrity crushes because it was like, I can't really have that. Right. But it's a safe version of what everyone else is doing, you know? And then the challenge. And I was like, you know what?

This is it so then i did reach out to my friend i got his phone number i texted him um and i texted him along the lines of i thought you i you know i didn't think you lived here but now i hear you moved here would you ever want to get a drink and then how long did it take him to respond okay so then i i sent that at 10 a.m 10.04 i sent it at 10.04 a.m did i really i don't know i sent it at 10.06 a.m and then he did not respond all day and then i started to panic but But also. You liked it. I really liked it. I know.

I know. Whatever it takes, though. Let's get you to like something. Let's get those motors running. Whatever it is. If it's a wacky communicator. He was labeled a wacky communicator. If he's a wacky communicator and that gets you going.

Whatever to get this motor running. I know. But it's no, it's not just whatever gets the motor running it's why why do i like that he was not responsive i liked again this this unattainability it's like oh wait he's not that interested in me obviously because he's not responding immediately so that's interesting he doesn't like me that much oh okay i kind of what time's our date yes and it was so it was interesting because that day overlapped with the other date so i was getting a lot of response from the first guy and in juxtaposition to this lack of response, I was like, oh, this person needs too much. Oh, God. I know. I know. I know. And it's not fair

and it's not true, but it's my own issue that like if someone is showing me that they like me it's like it's unattractive how am i i gotta get this this is the root of this is why we need a psychologist i know we're gonna by the way we're going to we're gonna have and we're also gonna have our mother on yeah to give a mom's perspective um at some point soon but i need to get to the, what happened? Okay, so we had some text banter and it was good and then we kind of like, it turned into me giving him hints of where the date's

going to be via emoji only, which was fun. Cute. It was cute, it was fun. And then I did tell him via emoji that it was going to be happy hour, but I don't know that he understood my clue. Okay. I would have.

You would have been dying to get that emoji. So then the morning of, I was like blank at five o'clock and then he wasn't responding again. Oh my God. Which I love. Is there an emoji for that? And then he responded and was like, we do like 5 30 ish because i'm gonna have to dip out of work so i was like sure and then we get i get there and i had to leave at seven so this is sort of similar to your greg date it was like it had to be short right and then he called me he called me on the phone which was felt new and felt so 2002

which i liked yeah favorite year so he called and was like i'm running late i'm running like 25 minutes late oh shit because of traffic and then he made a joke about having a real job or he had to leave work. Was it a dig on you? A little. And at first I was like, uh-uh. Like, I don't like that. Mainly because I think I felt defensive. I was like, oh, I have a real job. I work all the fucking

time. But then because he goes, he said it and he kind of mumbled and I go, what? And he goes, just it he kind of mumbled and i go what and he goes just kid never mind but then i like could hear it back you know and i was like okay so he's a little resentful that he had to leave work and then and i was like well or jealous resentful is the one way to look at it or jealous that you could get there at five. Well, that's true. Maybe all of it. I don't know. And then I said, well, to be fair, I told you via emoji that it was going to be happy hour.

And he was like, that's true. That's true. It's my fault. So anyway, he got there. So it was a short date. It was good. He is intriguing for sure. Did you ask him if he liked Christmas and Halloween?een i did it but that should be my new

bar that's the first thing i asked in a text we we send dick pics and we and size and girth and vids but you guys that's your go-to question mark no but what was interesting, he had an Indian girlfriend before. Okay. And he told me about that. And I, you know. Oh, man, that sounds. Tell me. That made me feel weird because I don't know if I would tell anyone my ethnicity of my girlfriend.

Exactly. That's exactly how I felt. But then I have my, you know, if it comes up, Greg was half Cuban, half, you know,

white. And then, you know, Tim was Israeli and Jewish. And that came up a lot like that. He was Israeli. But you weren't like, I've dated someone like you.

That's kind of what he's saying in a way. I need to check the tapes on that. I can see how you in a way. Oh, I need to check the tapes on that. I can see how you heard that, but I would really have to check the tapes on that. So maybe I was hearing things that weren't really there. Got it. But this date was really interesting for me because we also talked about our dating history. Uh-huh. That's common.

I know that's like so normal, but for some reason on my first date, we didn't talk about that. Right. So this date was we didn't talk about that. Right. So this date. I prefer talking about it. Look, I think it's probably good to talk about these histories, but I don't like to. It's very uncomfortable for me because I don't really know what to say. It makes me feel very vulnerable to be like, I don't have a history to present to you. Got it.

It's scary. So it was much easier on the, with this other guy because we didn't talk about it. And I felt very confident there. Okay. And in this one, when, once we're starting to talk about histories,

I feel much less confident. I feel like, oh boy, I'm a weirdo. Like I'm a weirdo. I have sort of nothing to say. And I had to say, I had to say like,

I don't do this very often. And I'm, you know, and he's like, so how long is your longest boyfriend? And it's like, Oh no, that is the common question.

And now I'm jumping into your body, our next challenge. And that's what terrified me. Yeah. And I have to kind of say like, never. Like, I don't have, I've never had a real boyfriend. When they say to me, what's your real age? This is, exactly.

Exactly. And so I, you know, told him and I, and there was a reaction. Really? It wasn't like, he's like, okay, cool, yeah. He's like, really? Like, he's surprised and my fear-based brain is like, he's repulsed by that. But surprised? We all are surprised.

But he's probably like, what is wrong with her? So then I feel like. Or diamond in the rough. Your feel like or diamond in the rough your vagina is a diamond in the rough that's right it is it sure is it's not even the rough it's just a diamond down there but yeah so how flirty was it i always ask this yeah you do because i tend to flirt too much because I like it to be in the moment. I like to have dates where we're not really giving our resumes, but we're in the moment about where I just say your eyebrows are amazing. Just like whatever, if they are.

I want to be in the moment on this date and giving compliments or seeing someone or grabbing their leg or whatever is very, I'm very tactile like that. Right. So was there any of that? A little, not a lot. More than the date number one. Got it. But not a lot. And yeah, so I felt like I had to like defend myself a lot during this date

because I kind of had to defend my history. Like, oh, this is, well, I grew up in Georgia and there was this, this, and then this. And oh, and then theian girlfriend conversation came up and then i felt like i was in high school i really felt like i was in high school again and i didn't want to be indian and i wished he didn't see that and you know and he was asking about like Diwali. And I was like, I never grew up doing that stuff. And I'm just kind of like still like distant. And also that's true. Correct.

Everything I'm telling him is true. But the emotions are very just taking me back to when I felt so less than, which is so interesting because I haven't felt like that in so long. Well, you haven't let yourself. I haven't put myself in a situation to. So that was... Do you think that this is the second time now and I don't know about a lot of straight dates, to be honest.

Do you think maybe you can't say this probably, but because you're hot and really smart and successful, that there's less flirting? Like, I'm just thinking like if they... Well like if thank you i'm saying like they're more intimidated or this this girl has more uh stature and i have to be on my p's and q's and then if they went out with a 27 year old waitress you know that you know cocktails

on the weekends they feel like they can be more flirty and touchy maybe. Maybe. I mean, we've only had two dates to decide, but this is now the second time where they're very on their best behavior, which is admirable. And it's also 2019. So I think that the climate of all these guys might be a little bit more reserved than, you know, I only, I don't know really, but I'm picturing that rather than he doesn't think you're hot, you know, which I'm not saying you don't think that. But it was just a thought that came up when two guys now are being more reserved.

Yeah. I mean, I didn't think I don't know if you'd like it if they were super flirty. Yeah. I don't know. We don't know. We don't. I want to find you a gigolo, though. I don't know. We don't know. We don't. I want to find you a gigolo though. Like I just slutty guy. Like,

I mean, here's the thing that I know I would like about it. Confidence. That they feel confident enough to do it. Yes. Yes. That's true. And then we're getting into a slippery slope with like, I guess me too.

Like, I mean, I guess like, you know, I feel weird saying like, yeah, I want someone confident enough to sort of like touch me. Like, that sounds bad.

As long as I'm giving them the signal that I want that or look, this is where this all gets. I know this conversation. This world is so muddy and we are at a time where we're making everything so black and white. And it's like, don't kiss her unless she wants to be kissed. And it's like. But then you leave and you go, he didn't kiss me. I know. I mean, like, we're all fucked.

It gets very, like, tornado-y in the way we're processing all this stuff. Because, yeah, like, I don't want to have to tell him, like, hey, you can touch me. No, goddamn. Ew, right? Like, I don't want to do that. And yet. You don't want to sit on tell them like, hey, you can touch me. No, God damn. Ew, right? Like, I don't want to do that. And yet. You don't want to sit on the same side of the booth either. Well, I don't want to sit on the same side of the booth.

No. And I think you don't want that because you want them to want to on their own. And it feels like if you're telling, it feels like you're kind of telling them to if you're giving permission. I mean, I guess you just, in a perfect world, you'd want everyone to be able to read everyone's signals, but that's also not reality. And people misread all the time. And so you do have to be kind of clear, but also how do you like leave room for fun

and like romance and flirtation? We're kind of asking people to like remove flirtation. And you know what? That's why we have sex before the date. That's kind of true. I'm serious. We're so relaxed. We just had sex.

Now we walk down to get something to eat. We have a drink. We're talking. There's no airs. You've already been inside me. Oh, boy. But now I do want to know where you grew up. Now I do want to know.

I'm not saying the way I'm doing it is right. No, I know. I'm definitely not by any means because it could just lead to that one date. And a lot of times it does. But then those questions that I'm asking about where you went to college, I'm really wanting to know because I'm already gotten laid. It's not about this ulterior motive of what I'm trying to get out of you. So it's an interesting thought. Straight people. Yes. For everybody, we know this. We could all use help when we're feeling down, but may not really know where to ask for it. BetterHelp is available for you. BetterHelp offers licensed counselors who specialize in issues including depression and anxiety.

Now, we talk about mental health on this show, on Armchair Expert Show, all the time because it's easy to neglect. It's easy to just consider your physical body as the thing that you need to be tuning up. But mental health is everything. I see a therapist regularly and my life has changed so much since I've done that. There's just something really beneficial about talking to a third party about your problems. You can connect privately with a counselor through text, chat, phone, and video calls, and get help on your own time at your your own pace, and at an affordable rate. Monica and Jess Love Boys listeners will get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com slash monica with discount code monica. That's betterhelp.com slash monica. Why not get help? Betterhelp.com slash monica. We are supported by Article. With endless to-do lists, making

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To claim, visit article.com slash monica and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout. That's article.com slash monica to get $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. This is what I am curious about with you guys just having so much sex. First of all, Dax has been very, very open about, he thought I am the way that everyone is in the gay community. And I'm not. Thousands and millions of gay guys are on these apps,

trust me. So it is prevalent, but I'm also on the sexual side of this spectrum. Sure. Yes. It's not like we're saying all gay people just fuck all day. Yes. But we're talking about your specific issues. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. It is true that gay men, not probably, they have more sex. That's what Dan Savage was saying. Girls would do that too if they felt safe. Correct.

How do you not get emotionally, like how, you have no emotional attachment once you've had sex and i'm not talking about like a deep emotional connection but just like chemically something does happen in your body where there's an emotional connection now to this physical act and you don't feel that no i think that's but that might be the rule of 5 000 times times I've had sex. I'm joking, America. But I do think it's a sport for a lot of us. It's transactional. But as far as oxycodone, oxycodone? No, like as far as this, yeah, but girls where you have sex with someone and then you feel linked with them. I don't have that. Right. Have you ever? Well, yes, because with Greg, it was both and it was amazing. And it was the highest I've ever been in my life for that year and a half, because we could have if he could have said, let's go to Jiffy Lube and I would have just been like,

sure. Like, I just loved being around him and not even not sex. Granted, we had sex five to five times a week. It was a lot, but it was just like the holding hands would get me like him just reaching over we were at the gym and him just reaching over and grabbing my hair i would just like melt yeah and that was a year and a half in like so the fact that i loved him and i had this sexual attraction to him and i looked i liked all of his personality traits was like, you know, the Matrix. Yeah.

We basically, we were each other's first loves. Yeah. You know, we held hands in public, which I've never done. I kissed him in a straight bar, which I've never done. We wrote letters to each other. I felt like what people do in their first love in college.

Did you feel like you were you? I felt like I was very much much me it was a long time a year and a half is still yeah it was a definitely myself but i still wanted him his approval yeah and do you think you changed elements by the way i don't think this is this is so universal, I think. We all, in any kind of relationship, like, I think show certain parts of our personality, mute other parts of our personality when we're trying to impress a person. But yeah, I was vegan for nine months. Right. I became what he, I mean, there's a joke in my standup, like, if I date a vegan, I'll

eat quinoa. And if I date an outdoorsy guy, I camp. And if I date a black guy, I mean, there's a joke in my standup, like, if I date a vegan, I'll eat quinoa. And if I date an outdoorsy guy, I camp. And if I date a black guy, I get pulled over. Oh, no, it's too true. I am whatever they want me to be. And like, I still am like, they're like, what do you want to eat? I'm like, what do you want me to want to eat? Okay, yes, that's what I'm asking.

But it's a joke. It's a joke based in reality. But that is very common in all women and men, and they lose themselves, and they are whoever. I mean, there's movies about it. What is, like, how do you like your eggs, they asked Julie Roberts, and she liked her eggs however. Runaway Pride. Runaway Pride. I love that movie. Yeah.

So I fell into that, and I actually love that I fell into that because I'm like, I'm just like America. Like for once, I'm doing what these girls were doing. And I was like, oh my God, I'm doing the same exact thing. Like I'm, I'm turning, I'm normal. I'm turning into my boyfriend. Like, oh wow. That's deep. And that breakup was needed too.

That was awful. Yeah. Awful. And that made me feel normal. was needed too that was awful yeah awful and that made me feel normal me crying over a breakup and lip syncing to see you while i'm driving and bawling my eyes out and then looking in a mirror and be like i'm like i'm alive like i felt like i i'm just like these girls like oh this is what everyone has been talking about and now i have it i'm in the club i'm in the that breakup club where i want to write a song.

And I did. I wrote a 10-minute stand-up set. Oh, I thought you were going to say a song and I was going to make you sing it. Yeah, that's deep. Because you always felt on the outside that even these heartbreaks were almost a victory. Songs. These songs. These stand-up sets.

Like, I was in the club you're exactly right i felt part of the american experience oh which just goes to show how outside we make yep gay relationships and i feel that too like i i feel like yeah i'm not in the club yeah yeah and it's not a fun feeling no and it's like a crazy thing to want to be a part of the heartbreak club And it's not a fun feeling. No. And it's like a crazy thing to want to be a part of the Heartbreak Club. But it's also life. You don't want to be the one that hasn't done that. Right.

Deep. Deep. Deep. What do you have? Okay, so I brought some props today. She has a whole bag full of Monica Loves Boys and paper cutouts of Matt Damon and Bon Jovi. And she has a syllabus of her firefighter teacher that you love. Oh, I should tell everybody that.

I just remembered that Covey, my professor who I loved in college, he was a firefighter before he was a professor I forgot about that part and I think now everyone knows exactly why I was in love with him yeah and I remember he would tell us he told us once about the smell of flesh and how and I was like oh hot and literally but I kept his syllabus like if i'm really looking at it through clear eyes keeping all this stuff like all i have just fucking so much shit in this bag that's posters that were on my wall and tiny anytime i would buy all the magazines and just cut out all the pictures of the hot guys that i loved and i think it was like a way for me to have something tangible, like something that I could touch and feel to connect to this feeling that

wasn't really all that real, you know, but look at my, my God. So there's, I'll post some of these pictures. Yes. There's this calendar that Callie made me that the February,

of course, February Valentine's day. So who's on there has ben and matt ashton paul walker rest in peace paul walker r.i.p heath ledger rest in peace dead so and then a person that's just hot that is, I thought that was Ian Somerhalder. Is it? Maybe it is. From the Vampire Diaries.

It could be. I have no idea who it is. It's just a hot actor. And that was enough. That's all I needed, a hot actor on here. Yeah, it's not him. It's not Ian. It must be a musician.

Yeah. I think it's a musician of some sort. Oh, that's the All-American Rejects guy. Oh, All-American Rejects guy. That makes sense because Callie and I liked All-American Rejects. Obviously, not enough for me to remember who any one is. What year is this? This was 2005.

Got it. What if I pulled out all my used condoms from 2005? Oh, this was from Mark. He was so romantic. Look at this. So Callie made me this sign. So Callie would make me signs and pictures and obviously she made me that calendar. And it's a picture of Ben and Matt.

She does thought bubbles for them. One of them for Ben says, oh my gosh, it's Monica. And then Matt says, I wonder if I can get her number or maybe take her to the prom. This is what we did all day. Like fantasized all day. Wow.

What would you do if you were in the attic with Dax and one of these guys that you have scrapbooks about? How much would you tell them? I don't know. I have thought about it. He would do it. He would make me so embarrassed. Yes. I know.

Because I wouldn't want to. I'd want to be cool. But this isn't you anymore. I know. I know. So it is actually kind of fond memories of when I was in show choir. I'm not in show choir anymore. I love those memories.

So this is exciting. This is great. And super creepy. It's so creepy. It's so creepy. Oh, and look at this then i have this big leonardo i had a little bit of a leonardo dicaprio phase oh you did just you yeah just me i was unique in that way i found i found the thing about him you know one thing most people don't see it but he's a real he's like niche he's like small he's like you know he's indie but like how many hours? Look at this. Look. Oh, this has a lift.

This has a lift. Lift Leo gets super surprise. Because there's more Leo under there. Oh my God. And then I actually think I drew something that faded. But anyway, so I just spent so much time building a world in which I had what everybody else had. Write this down. This is, we're asking whoever the psychologist or therapist is that we have on, because I

need to know what that says about you. Yeah. It doesn't say anything good, I don't think. Did you hold on? Did you try to make tangibles out of things you didn't feel like you were getting? I guess I'm just solution-oriented, is really. No, I didn't. I didn't.

My 18 to 25 was all groundlings what about even younger like this i was high school i was like 10 when i made that scrapbook i had good handwriting for 10 years i was pretty all high school was pretty seven in the morning to six at night it was ap classes show choir and then after basketball practice and then vocal ensemble i know but weren't you like were you were you flirting at that time no no i was uh asexual didn't know i was gay kind of kid that was knew that there was something different about me but would not let anyone see it because i was so such an overachiever and you weren't trying to pretend like you were, though. You weren't like, oh, Jenny Miller. Oh, I started to.

My junior year, I wore glasses that didn't have prescription because I powdered my lips a lot. Like, I thought I was kind of hot my junior year because I had a girlfriend. Did you have sex with your girlfriend? No, I wouldn't eat her out either. I would just eat around it. What? You mean like her stomach? No, like, yeah, kind of, or pubes eat around it what you mean like like her stomach no like yeah kind of or pubes or around it oh no is that bad i didn't know eating her pubes i was just kissing her pubes and

stuff and then fingering yeah i've never had sex with a girl you've never had sex with a girl you've never had sex with a girl I brought a Viagra on a cruise once and I'm like this is the time to do it and we found one girl who was really into me and she had fake tits and fake hair blonde, pretty and she was ready

and it almost happened and then I just bailed I was like no I can't why did you want to do that? Just for the sake of having sex with a girl? Yeah, I think I want to be part of this thing that everyone... But it wasn't because you were like, I'm attracted to you. No, no, no, no, no, no. And that's what kicked in and that.

I'm not, this isn't me. Yeah. Oh, man. And was she like, your girlfriend, was she like, hey, Jess, like, let's like do more. We were both our first relationship. I don't think we like looking back. We joke about it. Her name's Angel.

I love her. She was just thousands of letters. Oh, you know, so like. Like just letters and we were like loved each other, but ultimately as friends. But we yeah, we did sexual stuff stuff but I definitely was not my favorite part of the relationship. Sure. You know, but getting a letter

given to me after every period and having a whole thing and I have to answer them. For someone who's giving you so much attention, of course you love it. Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay, so when you have this girlfriend and you're kind of like,

I love her, like in your head, you think that obviously. Then when people would call me faggot, it would be a really weird juxtaposition. I didn't get it. Like, I didn't understand. I have a girlfriend. Right. I'm doing all the things.

But I secretly knew they were right. And I, like, liked some of the guys on my basketball team from afar. It was just a really weird time i remember being a senior and there was a freshman guy in um and we were driving on the bus to a show choir competition and i rested my hand on his peak uh and it got really hard and i just left it on there for the whole trip and kind of pushed down a little bit and it was like so titillating. We didn't talk about it. And then we started having phone sex. Oh, you did?

Yes. Because I went away to UC San Diego and then we'd have phone sex. And then when I'd go back up to Burbank, we'd mess around. Never sex or anything, but that was the first thing. Oh, that was really the first dabbling. Did your hand accidentally land there or you put it there because you knew I knew. he was gay?

I knew, yeah. Wow. And he had girlfriends too. He was like a popular jock. Jock soccer player in the show Choir Tree, yeah. That's so interesting.

Is he married now to a girl? No, he's gay. Oh, he's gay. He lives in Australia. Oh. Yeah. Well, that's a good ending to that. Yeah.

Wow. Then, yeah. Then leaving that's a good ending to that. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Then leaving and going to college was very, very difficult because I was the star in high school. Yeah. And then going and having no friends, I gained 30 pounds, way more zits around the mouth and yellow teeth. Your main quality.

And I was by myself at UC San Diego playing intramural basketball and being in the gospel choir and coming back and eating two footlongs, two nutrageuses and two pints of milk watching Friends in 1994. Oh, Friends. Yeah. So when you talk about Friends, it reminds me of getting fat. Oh, no. You get triggered every time. I always trigger you all the time. Well, it was 1994.

I remember it very, very well. That's when it premiered. That was a year of of friends and me being alone oh friends and not friends right no friends so that was one year at ucd and i could not do that and then i went up to la and i started the groundlings and that was my college did you feel like maybe when when you were at college and you were alone were you confronting your sexuality because you had to. Yes.

It was very, very difficult. It was called phone sex lines. And when did Madonna's Truth or Dare come out? Fact check that. Because that, when I saw that movie, I saw her dancers kissing and, you know, being very out and open. And it was like that movie changed my life a bit. Yeah.

It's hard. It's hard to be different yeah but you know but we all feel different in some way and for us we feel terminally unique in in that and i don't think we are but yeah i feel like college was interesting because for me too because i felt like okay so nothing really happened in high school that's okay like I had other friends in similar situations but then once we all went to college I knew I have to start just kissing and having sex and oh wow I have to do all this stuff like that's what people do I gotta kiss everybody and I gotta i gotta i gotta eat around when i can

no but i i felt like i i felt a lot of pressure also because the people that i felt like were sort of on my level leaving high school they were all getting boyfriends and they were in college like college was the time to be like free and do whatever. And I couldn't do it even though I wanted to. And I would always like, you know, look around in the classrooms and think like who, and I, you know,

then I landed on my teacher. Right. Who was just the one that I couldn't have at all. I picked him for a reason. I know. Since you didn't have that and doing that, did you act out in any other way or did you just get better at being a rad friend? I got so good at being the middleman,

the best friend, the person hooking people up. I have these A messages that I printed that I was looking when I was home last, which was a year ago. I was looking at these things in my memory box and there were these aim messages that I printed and I was expecting them to be me flirting with someone or something. And they're not, they're all me talking to a guy about another girl. Oh my God. Like Cyrano? I don't know Cyrano. Cyrano de Bergerac? What does he do? Cyrano de Bergerac has a big nose and he's in the, I do have a big nose.

And he's in the bushes telling the other guy what to say to the girl. Yes. I'm Sernodoburjarek. I am. Yes. And I felt, I think I felt like connected, helpful. And you just needed them to like me in some way. And if they weren't going to like me in that way, they were going to like me in this way. I mean, it's so pathetic, but it's sad.

No, it's not. It's healthier to act out and be a good friend and be a nice person and that you people want to be around. It's just like dripping in everyone like me and I'm going to be a part of everyone's lives. Always. I'm going to be in the middle. So you can't remove me. I'm going to be integral to this. I'm going to find my way to being a part of it, even though I'm not a part of it. I'm not a part of that relationship, but I felt like I was because I was inserting myself

in that way. But yeah. I was because I was inserting myself in that way. But yeah, so then when I went to college, I remember freshman year, I had this beautiful group of friends that we all went to high school together. And then we all went to college together. They're still just closest friends of mine. And it was a group and they were all in relationships with each other. Oh, like, you know, like my friend Christina was with her boyfriend, Matt. And Kirsten was with her boyfriend, Zach, and Gina was with her boyfriend, Robbie.

And then it was me and Callie. That was the group. Our freshman year, Matt kissed me at a bar. On purpose, like everyone knew that was going to happen. purpose like everyone knew that was gonna happen and i started crying so hard immediately after he kissed me wait because it was planned like we need to do her a favor so it was and then right after he kissed you he told you we were all in on this well no he didn't say we're all in on it was just everyone's there so clearly everyone's in on and it's not he was doing it not maliciously totally the opposite of maliciously he's like

and we were really close me and him were really really close and i think he was like yeah i want i want to be her first even though i kind of had kissed someone already but barely and so it was like yeah like i want her to have this i think and i want her i want to be her first and it's like nice but it made me feel so small and i started crying so hard and i couldn't stop crying we were in this bar also we were like drinking and so i think everyone kind of blamed the drinking for the reaction but the reaction is because it did it felt like i needed to be pitied and i i couldn't get anyone else to kiss me so my friend with his a girlfriend had to kiss me like it was not great no that does not sound great and i I think I would have cried too. He also kind of robbed you of your semi-first

kissed. Kissed? Kissed. He's not like Dax, addict. No, I, no, he didn't. He didn't because I love him and he's very special to me and I I'm happy to, he's also hot and I would love to have him be my

first kiss but not in a contrived way right right and he'll definitely hear this and i don't want him because he's a beautiful friend and will listen to all of these i don't want him to think that he made you who you are that i have any issue with it but it's just part of the whole story and it's's, it's my fault. Like I, I have found a way to keep putting myself in these situations. That's the point of this podcast for both of us. We keep subconsciously putting ourselves in these situations that are confirming all the negative thoughts. And I think we all do this.

I think everyone does this. So hopefully that's why this is relatable. I definitely acted out because I wasn't ready to deal with any of that. And I definitely drank and did drugs. Yeah. You know, when I was 25-ish to 30-ish, you know, Dax was involved with that a lot at the Groundlings. But I did not want to handle the dating and the sex and the gay thing. Yeah.

So I definitely was the fun hang. Yeah. And it was just definitely like, I'm not going to deal with this. I'm definitely going to get a little blackout a lot. Yeah. Well, okay. So we delved in a little deeper. We did. And we're going to give each other other challenges. All right. Right now. And then next week, we'll bring somebody else in as a third opinion on our stuff. Okay, so what is my challenge for the week? I want to do two, but I guess, okay, this one's going to be interesting.

With your Instagram, I think that there's probably dozens and dozens and dozens of direct messages that you have received that you don't know about. direct messages that you have received that you don't know about and that you would maybe go through these and see if there's any guys that are legitimately in this straight world we are maybe or gay world whatever the dm thing is a thing i see people that date people off they're sliding into their dms and what if out of your 200,000 followers, there's someone that has reached out that's a cool, normal guy. So I have to go through those? Go through all of your DMs and see if anyone is hitting on you.

That is valid. And I'll help you if you want. I think that the challenge needs to be something I have to do. I mean, I could go through my DMs, but I could just say I went through my DMs and there was nobody. So maybe... What you have to do is download either Tinder or Raya and put

up a full-on profile and have it running in one week. And start using it. Can I combo that Raya and the DMs? Because it's not forcing you to go on a date but that is two very action-based things at the apps i mean i'll do it i'll do it but i just hate those apps but it's not fair that i hate them to be like i hate them too right now i hate them because

they're running my life and you hate them because they're super uncomfortable. I wish we both found a healthy medium and a healthy balance between what we're doing. Never on it and on it too much. So here's your challenge then. It's in direct relation to mine. You don't have to do it for the full seven days, but for five days, I want you to not be on the apps.

Were you not on the apps last week? You were, you were scrolling. Definitely scrolling. Yes. I want you to five out of the seven days. Delete the apps. Delete them. So it is not a part of your day

and you have to find other ways to do your day. I thought it was going to put your real age. I was ready for that one. This is way harder. It was going to be that. The real age, to be honest, is I don't have my age on there, so I'm not lying. Except for Tinder, because when I try to change my age on Facebook, it blocked me and said, you've changed your age too many times.

Oh my God. I swear to God. I'm permanently that age on tinder and facebook because it's connected I'm sweating so much because I'm so embarrassed for 5 out of 7 days today is Wednesday

I have to delete the apps and then your day will open up you'll figure out how to do those days without that band-aid. All right. I love you. I love you.

I love you so much. Thank you. I'll see you next week. Good luck. I'm not dead. I might be dead. Thank you.